FBI Releases BONE-CHILLING Images in Guthrie Investigation While Hoda Takes Over Savannah’s Chair

First, just start to notice the fingertips on your right hand. Place your attention and focus on your fingertips on your right hand. Notice if they start to tingle while you're focusing on them. Hello and welcome to The Nerve at Night. I am your host, Maureen Callahan. We have so much breaking news to get into today. We are going to start off with the latest bombshell developments in the search for Savannah Guthrie's 84-year-old mother, Nancy Guthrie, who was taken from her home in the dead of night a week and a half ago. FBI Director Cash Patel on Tuesday afternoon releasing three video clips and footage from Nancy's front door Nest Cam. Footage we were told could never be recovered. Guess what? The feds recovered it. We are also going to talk about Savannah relocating to a new house with her brother and her sister. But where's her brother-in-law? We don't know. Plus, ransom notes have gone addressed by Savannah online, but apparently there has been no response from the author or authors of those notes. Key deadlines, which have threatened grave harm to Nancy if monies were not deposited into a Bitcoin account, fizzle out, shifting timelines and narratives. And the sheriff went to a basketball game on Saturday night. You know, he really just needed a little R&R, you know, and instead of having the decorum and the gravity to just keep it in his house and maybe watch that game online. There's a lot. There's a lot to dive into. We've got two incredible experts with which to do it. Defense attorney, criminal defense attorney and MK true crime contributor Phil Holloway is on the ground in Tucson. He has been to Nancy's house. He has been to Annie and Tommaso's house. He will be joining us here shortly to tell us everything that he is learning on the ground. And then also from MK True Crime, renowned criminal defense attorney Arthur Idalla will be here to talk about what this footage tells him and what his work with law enforcement at the top levels leads him to believe. We have incredible stuff to bring to you later in the show. We're going to lighten it up a bit by reading troublemaker feedback. We've got art. We've got photos. And then we are going to circle back to the media slash pop culture aspect of this case, which is what is going on over at the Today Show in Savannah Guthrie's absence. And you guys have been emailing us nonstop here at The Nerve about the goodish, ghoulish rather, Hoda Kotb, who is levitating over at Studio 1A now that she's not only back on set, but she's in Savannah's chair. Savannah was always the star of that show. Guess who's gunning for it? Are you ready? Are you ready? Let's go. Today's show is brought to you by Oxford Natural, home of the all-natural Optimum Day and Optimum Night supplements. 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The perpetrator walking up, fully masked, ski mask, to Nancy Guthrie's front door. And he is placing a half-curled fist over the lens of the Nest Cam. He's wearing a backpack that looks full, full of what is surely a kit designed to abduct, if not worse. And then he moves to the back. He walks backwards to the very front of the entrance and has grabbed vegetation, grabbed what looks like leaves, and is trying to sort of clumsily affix them over the lens to obscure any further video. Phil, what do you make of this? So look, you know, this is the thing just of nightmares, right? Monsters are real. And you've got one on video right here. He's dressed in a way, if you look carefully, Maureen, he's dressed in a way so that he's not planning to leave any trace evidence behind. He's got, looks like coverings on the shoes or whatever footwear. He's got the gloves. He's got at least, looks like two levels of masking over his face. So there's not going to be any fingerprints. He's not going to be dropping any hairs anywhere. He's not going to leave any touch DNA, at least not unless he took those gloves off. And so you put that together with information that we learned this morning, which was that they are taking DNA samples from people who worked at Nancy's house, people like maybe the pool guy or the gardener, whoever worked in the lawn. Okay. So they're trying to match, if they can, some DNA that they say they found inside the house. Presumably it was blood, but we don't know. But I don't think if that's, unless he took off gloves, and I'm assuming it's a he, it looks like a man. That's clearly a man. Seems like a male, walks like one. Anyway, Anyway, unless he took those gloves off, he did not leave any touch DNA in there. So then the question becomes. You can leave sweat DNA. You can leave sweat DNA. You can if the sweat has a way to get, you know, off of you. And there's very little of his skin that's exposed. We see he's wearing a ski mask. You think it's a double mask. Why do you think it's a double mask? If you look closely, it seems to have like another layer. And it almost looks like maybe some kind of a plastic mask that is beneath the ski mask, if that makes sense. Because it looks a little bit like through the mouth hole of the ski mask that he has facial hair, dark facial hair. Yeah, it looks like maybe a little bit of a mustache of some kind that's protruding. Certainly, this case looks very different now as we're speaking about it than it did just a few hours ago. So as I've been here in Tucson on the ground. Yeah, like we were talking, I'm staying at the same hotel where a lot of the journalists are that are covering. It's only like three or four miles from the scene of the crime. And by the way, going there in person really does help you get a better sense of what the crime scene looks like, what it feels like. It helps you keep it all in perspective. But just as recently as like last night, the sense was growing stronger by the minute that this case was going stale. And then out of the blue, Kash Patel drops these photos and videos that we were told were unrecoverable. But I'm glad we've got them because now it can give at least something to go off of. Look, this is also, it's got to be horrifying for the Guthrie family, the people who loved her, to see this. Because can you imagine what you would feel if you saw this person going in to take your mom? No, I can't. It's just horrifying. I will say a couple of things. One is this is feeling very much the way that the Koberger investigation unfolded. unfolded. And Ashley Banfield talked about this with us on The Nerve last week, where law enforcement sort of leads everyone to believe the investigation is going one way, cold. And then suddenly we get this new video footage that we were told was unrecoverable. Apparently it is. As they say, once it's in the cloud, it's there forever. The Nest cameras were recording, even though Nancy's subscription had lapsed, which I'm sure Nest slash Google is thrilled the bulk of Americans now know. But I've also in my own reporting, when I when I when I reported on the serial killer, Israel Keys, who did unthinkable things to his victims. What I learned to a one is that no matter what horrors were visited upon them, the family members always wanted to know. And that knowing was far preferable to not knowing. Now, this dovetails, by the way, with the FBI practically moving in. I'm not saying they're eyeballing this guy or he's the prime suspect. with the FBI practically moving in to Savannah's sister Annie's house that she shares with her husband, Tommaso. What do we know about how closely the feds are looking at the brother-in-law who's, I'm sorry, this guy in build, he looks like the brother-in-law. The facial hair looks like the brother-in-law. And this individual, whoever it is, seems very, very, very comfortable at that front door like he has been there before. Well, look, I was wondering if anyone was going to sort of draw the conclusion, make the comparison that the build seems similar. And folks can look at that and make up their own mind. Now, if this is just some unknown person that we've never heard of or considered, if it's a stranger, if it's a cartel member or what, you know, that's not necessarily inconsistent with Ashley Banfield's reporting. because we don't know why that person was there. Were they hired to go there? Was this something that was a targeted burglary, or was it a targeted abduction? This person could have been there to burglarize the house. I'm going to push back on that, Phil, because the backpack this individual is wearing is so stuffed that it doesn't seem like he has any room to take anything from the home. And as we know, nothing was taken from the home. So robbery is not the motive here. All right. So look, if you think about all the things that we do know about so far, like the blood droplets, okay, that lead, that led out from the front door that we now know were Nancy's blood, right? That driveway, and I went over there yesterday. I finally got a good feel for it. It's, you know, the semicircular driveway and the blood droplets ended at the driveway. So it's almost like there was a vehicle that was waiting for her to be put into. And the blood droplets are to be distinguished from a more prolific bleed. Like if you slice your arm open or you have a gaping head wound or something like that, or you've been shot, you know, you're going to bleed more profusely. These were drops and they were droplets. It looks like almost like a nosebleed where the blood is just literally falling and gravity takes it down. It makes a little splash and leaves a drop. So there was some kind of an altercation that had to have happened inside the home. We don't know what it was. We don't know if she was the only person who may have left any blood that may have been in there. But it has never been described to us as being a very bloody scene on the inside. We believe there was blood. We do know it's Nancy's blood, correct? That's what they've said about the blood from the doorway, that trail that leads to the top of the driveway and then ends. But if there was some kind of a violent struggle inside of any significance that left a lot of blood, I think we would have already been told that. That just kind of stands to reason. And so I'm wondering, tell me what you think. Does it make sense that maybe she was punched or otherwise incapacitated and taken out of there alive? And then something else happened to her later at another location? Was there a vehicle out there? We didn't see a vehicle in any of the images or video that was released today. But that doesn't mean there wasn't one a little further out in the driveway. And it's very, very dark out there. Maybe it was there and the video just didn't pick it up. but I don't, I'm just not convinced that she died in that house. I think that she was taken and I think she was injured when she was taken. She may very well have already been deceased when she was taken from the home, but I just am not getting that sense. Hopefully the FBI now is going to be able to shed a lot more light on this. The FBI came in and I feel like they just kind of took it over. Yes, they have. Sheriff Barney Fife is no longer giving pressers and he's apparently been choked off the information loop, which is why, in my opinion, he's no longer giving press conferences. And the release of this video, Phil, the timing of it to me, this is right after the night before Monday night, Savannah Guthrie releases a solo video to Instagram in which she seems disconsolate. And she's asking the public at large, not just anybody who is local to Tucson or even Arizona for help. And I guarantee she must have been made aware that the FBI was going to be releasing this footage soon. So it was either, you know, I would imagine she is in very, very close contact with top level FBI people about when to release these videos and what she's saying. Let's take a little bit of a look from Monday night's harrowing Savannah video and then talk about it on the back end. Here we go. Hi there, everybody. I wanted to come on and just share a few thoughts as we enter into another week of this nightmare. I just want to say, first of all, thank you so much for all of the prayers and the love that we have felt, my sister and brother and I. And that our mom has felt. Because we believe that somehow, someway, she is feeling these prayers. And that God is lifting her even in this moment and in this darkest place. We believe our mom is still out there. We need your help. And Phil, you can speak to this as former law enforcement. you know, for her to be requesting tips from around the country, that can only really impede an investigation because you've got to run down all those tips. So she's saying they're at an hour of desperation. She's definitely, she says it in the video, we believe our mother is still alive. Can you square that with the video that we just watched? Well, so she said in the video that we just watched, we believe our mother's still out there. Okay, so out there could mean alive or dead. It did seem like she has reached some resignation in her heart that this is not going to be a happy end for her family. And it's also, I'm feeling that she's frustrated with law enforcement. She's frustrated with the way the investigation has unfolded and the lack of information. But now we were contrasting the FBI versus Pima County Sheriff. So Monday night, so I went out there and I was at dusk and then maybe right after dark trying to get a sense of the place. And then there was information put out by Pima County that to expect law enforcement activity at both of the Guthrie homes. And they're only about four or five miles apart. Meaning Nancy Guthrie's home and Annie and Tomaso's home. That night. And then so, you know, I came back to the hotel. I'm visiting and hanging out with some media types that I've known for years. It's like a reunion around here. But anyway, I was asking, say, hey, you guys have just come from there. Did you see any law enforcement activity? No, no, they didn't see anything. This morning, I checked in with people that were there overnight. Nope, no law enforcement activity seen, despite the sheriff or the sheriff's office coming out and saying that there was to be some expected in the overnight hours. So we just don't know. It's like they're saying one thing and then it never happens. So it's almost like they need some media training, and they need to understand when to give information out and when not to. And look, if you tell the media that you're going to be out doing some law enforcement work at these places and you don't do it, then people are going to question why. I mean, are you purposely misleading us or is there something else going on? I don't think it's that sophisticated shop, Phil. I mean, we saw the sheriff at a basketball game on Saturday night. Right around the time Savannah and her siblings released yet another video in which they seemed to be saying to the abductors or the authors of the latest ransom note, we understand. We hear you. We understand. We want her returned so we can celebrate with her. This is very valuable to us. all speaking as if they have reached the conclusion that Nancy Guthrie is no longer with us. And this, I'm sorry, this asshole who really, if he wants to really help this investigation, should absent himself from it, okay? Go to all the basketball games you like. The other thing I wanted to ask you about was the ever-shifting timeline of Annie and Tommaso showing up at the house the morning after Nancy was abducted Sunday morning. Originally, we were told by the Pima County Sheriff's Office, it was a 50-minute gap between Annie and Tomaso arriving at the house around 1110 and calling the police at around noon. Then in his presser with the FBI last Thursday on February 5th, Sheriff Nanos compressed that timeline, confidently saying it was 11.56 a.m. when family members, unnamed, checked on Nancy after she does not arrive at church. And that whole story is another mess. 12.03 is when the family makes a 911 call. Now, the Daily Mail is reporting that that timeline has again shifted and there's something closer to a 30 to 50 minute lapse from the family arriving to calling the police. Phil, what is the thinking on the ground about this ever shifting timeline? Well, I mean, we now know that Savannah Guthrie called Senator Mark Kelly and and then apparently he called the police. Or that's what what I could be a dual. thing though, right? We don't know what time Savannah called the police and clearly her sister called Savannah and Savannah called Senator Mark Kelly, but we don't know why can't law enforcement, this is rudimentary stuff, nailing down a timeline. Release the 911 call. That's all it takes. They have it. They could release it today. Why do you think they're not releasing it? And then, I mean, that would clear up any discrepancies, right? Who made the call? What was set exactly? And what time it was? Right. And then we could begin to, you know, there's certain things about the timeline that I think can help establish it. And when you make a 911 call, it's pretty damn well documented these days, right? And so we can know that that's one solid data point. We know when the pacemaker stopped communicating by Bluetooth with the Apple Watch Apple iPhone Apple products What we don know is what information the pacemaker was giving the Apple products before the Bluetooth disconnected. Was it giving some, was it saying that the heart was beating or was it saying that the heart was not beating? We just know that it disconnected, right? Exactly. So we need to know a lot of those things. And if there were timestamps on these pictures and videos that the FBI has just released, then we would know, you know, with certainty what time that bad guy got there. And he was a bad guy and he was planning to do something evil. We know that. And so we really ought to be able to tighten up this timeline a little bit better. But this goes back to just basic, you know, police communications. When I say they need media training, this is part of what I'm talking about. Don't make everybody guess at it because then you've got all kinds of things happening in the media and the social media world that oftentimes are just not accurate. They need to do a lot better with their comms and tightening up this timeline. Well, I also heard on Megan's show on Monday that the sheriff's office has been in complete chaos for many years and that the entire homicide team is basically like everyone has two years experience. They've never handled a case this violent and this high profile. I think that their media training is the least of it. It's kind of a top-down thing. If you can run a tight homicide investigation, then you can run a tight communication with the national and local media. Now, I wanted to ask you about another shifting aspect of this. Well, before I get to that, Phil, as a reporter on the ground, is Nancy Guthrie's house still tied off with crime scene tape? Or how close can you get to it? Can you just walk right up to the front door? No. You know, I took some video. In fact, I posted some of this on Twitter last night and on Instagram. You can find me at Phil Holloway ESQ. And I posted the video that I took when I arrived on scene. And there's a right underneath the mailbox, there's like this, it's a sign. It's like from your neighbors, we love you. You have all our support, that kind of thing. And some, you know, religious candles. But then I kind of did a walkthrough to, or at least along the road, right in front of the house to show what the vegetation looked like. And by the way, processing a crime scene out there like that has got to be just God awful. But you can get a sense for what it's like. There was one sheriff's vehicle there, but he was there for basically just site security because the media, it's a very narrow road, and the media is occupying every square inch of the place, which is why I'm doing this interview four or five miles away because there's no way to get a spot up there, right? Certainly with a signal, there's almost no cell signal at Nancy's house. Annie has a little bit better. But anyway, there is no crime scene tape. They don't want people going on the physical property. In fact, when I was at Annie's yesterday, I was approached by a private security guard who said, just don't step on the rocks because the rocks is kind of, you can think of it as the sidewalk. It's where the street ends and their property begins. And the private security guard says to me, you know, you got to stay off the rocks. And then when I got in my car to leave, he approached me and he says, hey, look, can I see the video you just took? And I said, why? He said, because I want to make sure I'm not in it. I don't want my picture being seen. I'm like, well, you're not in it. Trust me. I didn't show it to him. And then I politely left. But, you know, so they have security that they're trying to keep people off the property. So the media is not going on the property, but there is no crime scene tape per se. It's not like that blocked off. So here's another major question. The reports are that Savannah, her brother Cameron, and her sister Annie have moved into a $1.25 million house in a gated community. Where is Annie's husband? Is he there? I haven't seen any reports that he is there. I know that on social media people are asking that question. And nobody seems to have seen him. If he had been spotted, we would know it because there's enough eyes sort of looking for him that if he turns up somewhere, people are going to be talking about his, you know, where he is and what he's up to. So I don't know that he's there. You were at Annie's house on Monday. Did you see any activity or indication that he's there? Any vehicle, any newspapers in the driveway, any mail piled up? No. It looked empty? I didn't see any. It looked like nobody was home. Now, like I said, they do have some private security. No doubt paid for by Savannah. Yeah, they're not like in uniforms or anything. They're just guys walking around in jeans and T-shirts, and they say that they're the security guys. Interesting that the feds aren't there. The sheriff's department isn't there. It's private security. And by the way, Annie and Tommaso have a child. They have a son together. We don't know the age, but where's the son? Yeah. You know, on the one hand, you can expect the family to, you know, kind of be reclusive right now during this time. They don't want the publicity. But, you know, if you have a kid, you need to have the kid in school. You need to have your life needs to kind of go on as best as it can. But the absence of Tommaso from sort of the public scene, the sphere, does raise questions. is he hiding because he's private or is he concerned about something? I don't want to go too far and accuse anyone of anything. Of course not. But people are already out there trying to draw comparisons between these videos and these pictures and his physical build. You know, people who know him better, I mean, I don't know him at all. I don't know that I've ever seen him walk. But people who know him might be able to compare and say, look, it's not him. He doesn't walk that way. That's not the same gait. I don't recognize that person as being Tommaso. But, you know, we just, there's obviously things that the FBI knows. We talked about this last time I was on your show, Maureen. They did not, the FBI did not go into that home with that Cellbrite kit unless they were intending to download electronic communications. They're looking for something. They're looking to see what the devices contain, who has sent what emails, who has sent what text, chats, whatever, what IP addresses have you been communicating with, all of those things they can get. So they were in that house for a reason. Now, the FBI did not have a search warrant. They were given permission. It's called a consent search. My theory on it is that they asked for consent. They got it from Annie. Annie says, sure, we got nothing. So they don't want to tip anybody off that they are suspecting them because if you have to go get a search warrant, you've got to show a judge evidence that shows that you have probable cause to believe that there are fruits or instrumentalities or evidence of a crime contained in that location. So by doing the consent search versus a search warrant, strategically, the FBI gets to avoid tipping anybody off that maybe they're on to them. So that's just one possibility. Just two more things with you, Phil. One, you made the incredibly brilliant point last week that by taping, by the FBI recording those videos of Savannah and her siblings pleading for help from Annie's house, that allows them in the house to look around without a warrant and keeping them distracted and keeping them comfortable. Number two, now that the whole, the siblings have all decamped to another home, what's like, like a luxury Airbnb, probably there's no preexisting evidence for the FBI to go sniffing around over there. So it doesn't matter if they shoot over there or not. Now, the other thing I wanted to show you, we found here at the nerve, there's not a lot of pre-existing imagery and Annie's taking it down from her Facebook of the brother-in-law but we found a video of the brother-in-law the failed musician who Annie described as a quote great manifester a manifester performing with his band called Early Black okay this is a type This is a middle-aged guy performing live in his band that's going nowhere on December 26th, 2009. So that's the night after Christmas. Tommaso is in all black to the left of the frame. It looks like he's playing bass in a band, again, that is struggling to be heard over the din of an otherwise preoccupied crowd. Let's take a look at this. There's Tom So on the left. So that's the little bit that we've got. What do you make of that? Does that video tell you anything? No, I mean, only that he's a male and he's not very tall necessarily. I didn't add him. You'd have to measure everything, right? We don't know the angle of that camera. Yeah, but he didn't look like he was of any great height, maybe not unusually short either, maybe average height. And that he has facial hair, right? Dark, dark facial hair. And I couldn't see very well because I got the sun behind me here in the video. But what could you tell of his skin tone? It's hard because it's dark. It's a bar. But we have seen photos of him, and he does seem to have sort of a darker complexion, a Mediterranean olive-skinned complexion. Okay. Well, I'm sure that the experts over at the FBI that are comparing things that they have to compare are either trying to rule him out or in. I mean, that's how you investigate cases. is you rule people out and you start at the beginning with the victim and you start looking at who's close to that person and you start eliminating them as suspects. And if you find one that you can't eliminate, well, you keep trying until maybe you figure out that they maybe had some involvement with it. So I'm not surprised that they're looking at him. I think they should be looking at everybody that had contact with her. Supposedly, he was the last one to see her alive, except for whoever that guy is that we now see the pictures of. So, yeah, I mean, it's natural that they're going to pay close attention and they're going to look there. So, I mean, beyond that, I don't want to get too far out on speculating and accusing anybody because, as we've seen today, twists and turns happen. And the FBI gave us a twist today. I mean, nobody was expecting these videos to come out. Bombshell, bombshell. God, thank you, Phil, so much for your expert commentary. and we look forward to talking to you as you stay on the ground in Tucson reporting on this most incredible case. Yeah, but you got to do me a favor too. You got to come back on our show, MK True Crime sometime because we're going to be talking about this case and you obviously are someone who's following it very closely. We'd love to have you join us there as well. Anytime would be my honor. Thanks so much, Phil. You bet. We will be talking to Phil Holloway as he remains on the ground reporting all the latest developments from Tucson, Arizona. Now, none other than the legendary criminal defense attorney, Arthur Idalla, joins us to discuss what he sees in this video that has just been released by the FBI of what is surely the perpetrator, excuse me, of who is surely the perpetrator approaching Nancy Guthrie's front door and attempting to obfuscate himself by covering the lens of the nest cam with vegetation. Arthur, welcome to The Nerve. Yes, well, and it's a day to be a little nervous, and I'm not even saying that facetiously. You know, the whole world has been covering this story, and it is, and I'm being, again, very sincere it is a luxury of being a celebrity because people go missing every day people go missing all the time like like a lot a lot more than we know about a lot more than is reported but when you're savannah guthrie you have i mean i'm not holding anything against her she's got the ability to do everything she can to save her mom and i'm obviously a tremendous break i'm getting a picture why has it taken so long that's the big big huge question i have Why do you think, Arthur? I don't know. I mean, I have no clue You know, unless Unless they had to jump through Some real technological hoops You know, I have the ring doorbell But there's like a lot of variations of it And if you don't pay for the subscription services You know, like I know It's not recorded, but my guess is It's probably recorded on some Far drive farm Somewhere in middle America or somewhere And maybe they had to find you know i i don't know but i mean my theory it doesn't take a very long time to find this thing listen sheriff barney fife had control of this investigation until about five days ago when the fbi came in and to your point it's absolutely true and it is what it is people go missing all the time people vanish all the time most people don't have the president of the united states calling them directly and saying hey i will give you the full force of the fbi and the nsa and whoever you like, you know, I think the feds got in there and we're like, Hey, you dummy. Like, yeah, we can go to nest. We can go to Google and they can recover this imagery. And I think the timing of them releasing this cash Patel released three reels, um, on Tuesday afternoon, one after the other. And tell us what, you know, what your experience with law enforcement is Arthur of the timing of this because I would bet they have a suspect they like a lot for this and they are releasing this footage to make this suspect very nervous to tighten the noose and see if this suspect panics. What do you think? Well, it's interesting just from a civil lawsuit from a point of view, they're already saying that nobody can identify who this person is. At least we can't, right? But they're like, the person in these images is not a suspect or a person of interest. Like, really? There's a guy with a mask and gloves covering up a ring doorbell or video doorbell and he's not a person of interest? We're just merely trying to identify the person. Like, you know, like, come on, just be honest with us. I think that's a tremendously accurate theory by you that like, hey, they are now shaking history and saying, you know, we have a pretty good idea who you are. We're now with new technology. We'll be able to identify you with the irises of your eyes or the brand of hat that you're wearing or the brand of gloves. I mean, it's pretty incredible the technological advances, even over the past five years, let in the past 10 years, how they could, you know, look at a jacket, a glove, a hat, a scarf, and know, well, those scarves in this area are only sold at this particular Walmart, and they go to the Walmart, and I mean, they, you know, they look at the cameras there and say, well, who's buying those scarves, and let's look at the past month, and who bought a scarf there? I mean, it's crazy how they dig so deep, and God bless them for doing it, to identify who this individual may be. but I mean look if you're the if you're Savannah's family if you're Nancy's family you know honestly and you can answer this question like does this make you feel better or worse I mean seeing a guy with a mask at your front door and it looks like there's reports that they may be you may see a gun in his waistband and like you do I don't know how that makes me feel like you know as I said well here's the thing I was talking to Phil Holloway about this of MK True Crime your colleague. And in my reporting for American Predator, which is about the worst serial killer the FBI has ever seen and who visited horrific things upon his victims, to a one, every family member asked, they asked, they said, we want to know everything that was done to our loved one. The not knowing was worse than the knowing. And for them, it was a way of honoring everything that their loved one may have gone through a way of sort of being with them as much as they possibly could. What did you make, Arthur? By the way, to your point about how with technology right now in 2026, maybe it'll be by the irises of the eyes. Maybe it'll be like a tiny little piece of facial hair that fell off. Remember, they got OJ with the Bruno Mali shoe. And that was like what, mid 90s 94 so imagine today's technology applied to a guy like this who to to my eyes does not look terribly sophisticated but looks awfully comfortable at that front door well it's i mean it's just scary right i mean it's it's if you're a family member and you're thinking of your mom and she's you know 84 and yeah like imagine like we don't know what happened imagine she opens the door and there's this guy in a mask. I mean, you know, it's, it's terrifying. And look, I, I've never been in that position. I don't ever want to be in that position. I don't know. Do I want to know how my mom met her demise and if it was horrible and, you know, I mean, I don't know. I, you know, I hope I never know. But the bottom line is a bigger question. I really haven't and it's where I started off is like, What took so long to get that? I mean, this is, it should not be that hard to get. I mean, wasn't you reported missing on the first? We're at like 10, 11 days. Yes, we're well into this. Now we're just getting this footage from the doorbell. Well, the feds probably had it a few days ago, don't you think? And they're timing this out. Because Savannah's been releasing these videos. You know, Savannah released a video only hours before, maybe 12 hours before, Prakash Patel posted this video to his ex account. So she had to know it was coming, don't you think? Well, I would like to think that she's not finding things out through press conferences. And I mean, I'm sure they're giving her the professional courtesy of bringing her up to speed. But if I am a journalist at a press conference, I mean, that's the first question I'm asked. It's like, what took so long? Now, I guess they could say, oh, out of the three days that we were waiting, but even three days, like kidding aside, the fence broke at my house in Long Island. And my contractor is like, do me a favor, look at the ring doorbell. And we saw that the guy who picked up the garbage, he fenced with the truck. I mean, it took like 12 seconds to figure it out. Like, I mean, it's just a little weird with, I mean, the amount of resources, as you said, you have the president of the United States. United States working on this case to some degree. And we're just figuring this out now that something doesn't smell right about that part of it. But again, at least it's something. And it's something now that they can work on. And, you know, hats off to the FBI and everyone else who's not at a basketball game working. I mean, talk about a silly move that was, right? The sheriff going out. I mean, look, it's one thing. It's so unprofessional and stupid. and distasteful and disrespectful. And that action alone says to me, he should be turfed from this case because he clearly doesn't have any sense of shame or proportion to go, you know what? That was really out of line. The same night that Savannah Guthrie is sitting between two of her siblings and pleading for what sounded like in that video, the Saturday night video, the return of their mother's remains. You know, Savannah's videos vacillate and understandably so between seeming to accept that her mother may no longer be with us and believing that her mother is still out there and alive Yeah whoever that common sense public relations stuff. Look, everyone's entitled to a break. Everyone's entitled to take a deep breath. Sometimes it actually helps. It clears your head, but you don't go to a public baseball, a basketball game or anything like that. You know, you stay home. Look, I don't even mean, maybe the guy needs to watch a movie. Maybe he needs to watch Rocky III for a couple hours. That's fine. Nobody would deny you that. But don't go somewhere where there are cameras. This guy loves the media attention. It doesn't matter if it's bad attention or critical attention. You saw that presser with the FBI and like all the journalists, every time Barney Fife got in front of the podium, they were like, no, sir, please make way for the adults in the room who can answer a question. Listen, I agree. The bottom bottom line is there was a major breakthrough with these photos, with this video, with what the person looked like, their size, their height. And again, with the modern technology, they probably know exactly how tall that person is. Yep. Approximately within a couple of pounds, how much that person weighs. Size of the foot. There's so many things that they'll be able to grasp. And look, I hope you're right to some degree. Maybe they had that video three days ago. It still seems like very long for me. And that they're working on it and they have substantial leads to at some form or another give some closure here. Arthur, do you have any sense of now that we've all seen this harrowing, unmistakable footage of the person who took Nancy? Do you have any sense of how long it should be now that the FBI is deeply involved in this case for them to make an arrest? no i mean the bottom line is uh you know people may not want to hear this but sometimes luck has a lot to do with it i mean think about the luigi mangione case i'm not taking anything away and that's the person the young person here and who shot the uh united health care executive um brian thompson there was a lot of there was a lot of luck in finding him you know he happened to be sitting eating something with a mask on i mean my understanding is he was identified by his eyebrows that someone in the fast food joint said, you know, that looks like the guy they called. And even the cops said when they got the call, they were like, okay, yeah, this is going to be the Luigi Mangione kid from New York city. And it was right. Right. That was kind of a lucky break. I mean, yes, the NYPD was able to follow him on all of their cameras throughout the city of New York until they couldn't anymore. And they just knew he had left the city, but no one knew where he was. There was, I'm using a real life for an example. There was a lot of luck in that. And again, I'm not belittling anyone in law enforcement, but having luck on your side, it doesn't hurt. Now, there's also an expression, the harder I work, the luckier I get. Exactly. These guys are working very, very hard around the clock. I'm not minimizing that whatsoever, but they could use a lucky break here in one form or the other. You said something about dropping a hair or dropping, whether it's shoes or something that would give them some clue of who they're dealing with. And they have to find out where that person may have gone. Nobody would have thought Luigi was where he was in that location, in that state, in that fast food place. So, you know, and I don't know. There are so many theories out there. And I hate to even repeat them about different countries. But what's the end game? I mean, the end game is supposed to be to collect money. If it's truly a kidnapping and it truly has to do with ransom, the end game is how are we going to get $6 million, $7 million? and it doesn't seem like that's really happening that we know of. And let's face it, there's a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes in these types of situations that the public never, at least at this point, does not know of. And then we hear about it after the fact. Exactly. And I want to ask you about that. But just going back to the way Luigi Mangione was caught and the element of luck, whoever took Nancy kind of strikes me as somebody who hasn't really done a crime of this magnitude before. In much the way, as far as we know, Luigi Mangione never committed a crime of this magnitude before. And I think with criminals like that, there comes an element. Law enforcement is kind of waiting for them to just slip up to make a mistake. Because the amount of intellectual and emotional, physical energy you have to expend to evade detection in a post-9-11, AI-driven America is a lot, a lot. do you think that there is a disconnect between the authors of these ransom notes and the perpetrator? Because as we know, the deadline, the 5 p.m. deadline for Monday has passed. And that deadline, we were told, was the final one, meaning that without the money, they were going to kill Nancy. And as far as we know, the money has not been deposited and nothing has happened. the key of what you just said is as far as we know you know i can tell you from being involved in cases like this there's a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes that the public doesn't know until later or sometimes the public never knows so you know we have to be cautious about you know articulating what we think is really happening because we don't know what what is but um and we don't you know usually if you're reading crime novels and crime statistics there's usually some indication that someone is alive. And we haven't heard of them. Now, I don't think Savannah Guthrie is going to go on and do these big videos and not allude to something like that. Like, you know, Mom, we know you're alive. You, I think, accurately narrated that, you know, it sounded like at one point they were looking more just for her mother's remains. But then the next video sounds like they're hopeful that she's still out there. So, you know, the truth is there's a lot of, As we all know, there's a lot of questions that need to be answered, and some of them may be answered. I mean, that's my overriding point here. There may be things that the FBI knows. There may be things that the family knows. You know, I'm involved with a high-profile death out here in Long Island, and there are things that, you know, the family and I know that the media doesn't know. There are things that the district attorney's office knows that they haven't even shared with us, but they've told us they know it, and they're still waiting to conduct their investigation because they don't want to soil anything. They don't want to put anything in someone's mind. They don't want to show their hand, so to speak. So, I mean, there's a lot to this story that is yet to be told. You know, at the end of the day, you know, you just always, you know, just you got to be hopeful. You got to pray. And I know some people are like, oh, stop it, Arthur. But yeah, no, the praying part actually helps. I've been involved in these situations. and you got to have faith and you have faith in law enforcement that they're doing everything they can you got to have faith in your mother that she's doing everything she can and that she's still with us and that what tom petty has the song the waiting is the hardest part it's so it's such a helpless feeling just sitting there and you know you just you don't know what to do as a son a mother a child whatever it is you're just sitting there like you know what do we do? I need to do more. There's a desperation feeling and there's nothing to do. Yeah. And I think that's why Savannah has been publishing these videos. It's what she knows how to do as a journalist is to communicate. It's cathartic too. It makes you feel like, all right, I'm trying to do something. I mean, people have talked about how come the reward is so small. There's all kinds of FBI theories about that and studies about that, that if it's too high, you start getting all kinds of fake calls and fake things, and it doesn't come off the right way. So, I mean, you've got to trust that the FBI knows what they're doing and knows how to handle these situations. And even as a family member of Nancy's, you've got to just put your faith and your trust in them, in the professionals. I mean, this is the best and the brightest that the United States has, and maybe that the world has. And you just hope that at the end of the day, there's, I mean, could you imagine if this woman comes up alive? I mean, there'll literally be like a ticket tape parade here in New York City, the way everyone is so invested. It would be, it would be incredible. And just to your point about the FBI and what the reward sums tend to be, and if they feel to the lay public, like insultingly low or just way too high, the FBI completely knows what they're doing when it comes to these kinds of negotiations. I mean, in my own reporting, the FBI would talk to me about like never depositing a full ransom amount in a bank account. You want to deposit just enough to incentivize, at least in this case that I wrote about, to incentivize the perpetrator to begin communicating, to frustrate them a little bit. You can have some of it, but you're not going to get all of it until we get the person back. So there are always these psychological, it's a psychological war game. And I do think the release of these videos, these horrifying videos from Nancy Guthrie's front door, this I think is really the FBI engaging in psychological warfare with their prime suspect. obviously I'm not going to disagree with you but I will tell you my first reaction when I saw that video you know it's like even though you we kind of know what's going on even though we you kind of imagine what happens it's the reality of it when you actually see it and seeing some dude with a mask and gloves and a gun at your old mom's door it's like you're just like oh my god Like this is reality Like reality is Now it's in my face And you know there's no There's no chance Not that there really ever was But like this being an innocent mistake Or you know her wandering off Or something that's a lot less violent Because let's face it That's violence That's a you know next week It's Friday the 13th That's like a Friday the 13th Kind of situation Like someone's coming to the door That guy means to do harm Right Exactly. Exactly. It's right out of a movie. And it's, it's like, well, let's just hope whenever they catch this guy, cause they will, I have no doubt about that, that when this person tries to mount a defense, no offense to the defense attorney and you Arthur, oh, uh, I was out of my mind. Uh, I was on drugs. You know, I have a history of mental illness that that all gets knocked down. And that this video of this premeditated, very casual attempt to, uh, you know, obfuscate their image by grabbing vegetation and putting it over the camera lens that that that thing never disappears because that is somebody who was taking pleasure in what they were about to do and tried to get away with it and you know hopefully they no one will get away with it again i don't know about the money and then they want it in cryptocurrency and how traceable that is and there are all ways to trace it but it's not that it's not as easy as one might think but It's in the realm of possibilities. You know, they are clearly, look, say a lot of things about President Trump. Once he puts his mind to something, he usually is pretty insistent on getting it done. The fact that he picked up the phone, he called Ms. Guthrie, you know, he called his troops and go out there and get it done. There's a lot of pressure on a lot of people to to solve this case. You know, Arthur, great point. and we can leave it here. But again, whether you like the guy or loathe the guy, here's the timeline. On Monday, Trump was asked what the latest that he knew of in the case, the developments. And Trump said, I think we're gonna have a very good outcome very soon. 24 hours later, Cash Patel releases these videos. Coincidence? I think not. I think not, honestly. And that's my long-winded point from before. There's a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes that the public doesn't get to know initially because they don't want to contaminate the investigation or anyone's memory or anyone's testimony in any way, shape or form until it's necessary. And then maybe we'll get into more of the facts. Arthur, thank you so much for joining the NERV and bringing your expertise and brilliant legal mind to this conversation. We really appreciate it. I appreciate it as well. And our hearts and prayers go out to not only this family, with all the families out there that are in this position and have that empty heart and that empty feeling of not knowing where a loved one is. Yes, absolutely. Echo that sentiment wholeheartedly. Talk to you soon, Arthur. Thank you. Coming up, Troublemaker Feedback, back in a minute. The beauty industry has been scamming women for decades, peddling toxic overpriced potions that promise miracles and deliver nothing and everyone is sick of it. 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Vanman, real ingredients, no exceptions. we are back and now on to your emails your photos your art we got so much feedback from the mini on saturday which was taking apart ryan murphy's trailer for the jfk jr carolyn beset kennedy Love Story miniseries that is premiering tomorrow night, Thursday on FX and I believe Hulu. They're going to drop the first three episodes. And I got so many emails from so many of you saying, please tell us we are going to be covering these episodes weekly on the nerve. Trust me, we're going to be covering these episodes weekly on the nerve. Now, from troublemaker Leslie regarding that trailer. She enjoyed the mini, was hoping the nerve would be treating it like the pinata it is. Leslie says, I was in college during this entire saga and had been, excuse me, completely enamored of John Jr. I thought the two of them were so impossibly perfect and glamorous. Of course you did, Leslie. That's what the media told us all to think. In hindsight, and with the benefit of a fully developed prefrontal cortex, I see them for what they really were, two deeply flawed individuals that were an absolutely toxic combination. Yes. And even with all of her faults, Carolyn and her poor sister, of course, should never have died the way that we did. Leslie read Ask Not and also read Come to the Edge, the memoir by John's first serious girlfriend, Christina Hogg. The positions, Leslie writes, that he put his girlfriend Christina Hogg in were horrific. He almost killed her multiple times. When I tell you this guy had a death wish, it's one thing to have a death wish and to toy around with your own life. And it's another to deliberately pressure someone you claim to love more than anybody else into joining you on these life. I will get into it. I will get into it the further it went on. But you know how he managed to do this? He was like, hey, I'm JFK Jr. I can have anybody I want. I can have someone way more beautiful, famous, and powerful than you. You want to stick with this? You want to stick with this? You got to do what I say. Even if that means kayaking out into the open sea and I have no idea what the F I'm doing. True story. True story. Troublemaker Leslie goes on. It is actually shocking that he took so long to get himself and innocent bystanders killed. True. And that he didn't have a higher body count. True. So in comparison, the books written by Carol Radziwill and others come across as sycophantic, swooning fan fiction. Indeed. Now, Paul from New Zealand, local legend here at The Nerve, Paul from New Zealand, sent this artwork in. We're showing it on full screen. Hi, Maureen. You are so right. CBK made herself over for JFK Jr. And up top, Paul shows us the original CBK, who was a healthy, glowing, more natural-looking, smiling person. And then below is where Carolyn begins to winnow herself away into nothing and, you know, fries the hair and all of it. We'll get into it again as the show progresses. We will get into it. okay this comes from a troublemaker who shall remain nameless but has a very very urgent request and his subject line is just his subject line i'm not saying this is fact carol radziwill and galane maxwell are besties and attaches our pal rob shooters exclusive from his naughty but nice sub stack again a must subscribe if you haven't already rob's exclusive the headline reads galane Maxwell and Real Housewives Star were like sisters. You know, Rob, we're going to have to talk to Rob about this because, you know, Carol likes to tell us, you know, she and CBK were sisters. Now, this troublemaker writes in enormous font. When are you and Rob going to tackle this topic on the nerve? Kind troublemaker, may I reassure you imminently, okay? Even Rob needs a vacation from time to time. Okay. He's been putting in the hours. So he will be with us when he returns from vacation soon. This subject header forward, oh, I forwarded it to my other email. Excuse me. Gail King of shit. And this is from a troublemaker who says, hi, Maureen, troublemaker Heather here. I hate Gail King so much. It makes my bones ache. Well, you're here among friends, Heather. She also says, along with Oprah and Jenner Bush Hager, don't worry, it's what the nerve is here for, okay? We're taking him to the woodshed all day long. Now, we also have gotten tons of feedback on the Nancy Guthrie case, along with what's going on over at Studio 1A at the Today Show. And it is time to discuss, based on troublemaker feedback, troublemaker questions and, and hold his own activity. What's going on over there. Okay. Because this is going to be another part of the story. Remember the story, the story, it's not just crime. It's not just crime. It's celebrity. It's media. It's everything. Maureen regarding Nancy Guthrie, the sheriff is an idiot. We know this. We know this. You don't tell the public. there were no videos of intruders. You know, I think the dumb sheriff, my opinion, really thought there, not only were there no videos, that it was perfectly fine to tell the public at large that there were none. Any thinking person knows. Anything that goes up into the cloud is in the cloud. And as we now just saw from our conversation with Phil, the FBI dropped video, recovered from the Nest Cams, even though the Nest Cams weren't quote unquote recording. Guess what? They were. this guy, this guy needs to be yanked. Just get the, get the, get the cane out and yank him off the stage. It's amazing. People who have overinflated ideas of their abilities, talents, and intellect are also always the last people to ever come to that realization or have an iota of shame and be like you know what I making a total fucking buffoon of myself on the national stage I should recuse myself from this case I should gladly hand it over to the feds and say if you want help, we're here, but you probably don't want our help because, hey, I was over at a basketball game on Saturday night. This guy, this guy. Okay. This troublemaker has a theory. And, you know, we talked to Professor Sam, Sam Vachnin, on Tuesday's Nerve about intrafamily homicidal violence. And we're not saying that's what's happening here with the Guthrie family. We're not. That said, the brother-in-law has not been ruled out as a suspect in this case. And, you know, Savannah is out in New York City living a life of glamour and fame and fortune and the brother-in-law and the sister are not. So this theory proffered by this troublemaker is that the son-in-law is tired of spending his time taking care of Nancy while Savannah gets paid millions and is the star. he is Italian. He is Italian from Italy. The Winter Olympics are in Italy this year. Savannah was supposed to go and cover it. But the brother-in-law, this troublemaker theorizes, has never been able to afford it. Could that account for the timing? He didn't want to watch Savannah waltzing all over his native country while he sat at home babysitting his mother-in-law. This is just a theory. Hi, Maureen. You called it. She's back. I turned on the TV this morning. This is dated Monday, February 9th. We've got the footage and it's coming up. and there's Hoda front and center with Craig on today. I laughed out loud. She is weaseling her way back in as the nerve predicted. You could tell Chanel who has been filling in for Savannah was annoyed by her presence and knew exactly what was coming. We all know what's going on over there. Okay. hoda sliding back in subject line oh my god girl what the fuck is the today show doing they seemingly were behaving like hoda was stalking the today show by forcing some distance between the today show and hoda but with the horrific reality of poor nancy samantha's mom that which is slithering in. Again, just this troublemaker's observation. First, as reported on the NERF, we showed the video. Jenna Bush Hager, Savannah's BFF, and that other coworker, that's Chanel, that drip, couldn't bother themselves in attending the vigil for Nancy Guthrie. That vigil took place in a New York City church, so blocks away from the Today set, okay? And as Chanel admitted on set, on air. She didn't even watch it online. At least Jenna had the decency to do that. And that's a low bar. Okay. A low bar. Now they've opened the door for slithering Hoda to get back in and get all comfy. Troublemakers, this troublemaker, Claudia writes, we need you on this loud and clear. We will not stand for this NBC. If we were crazy for Cocoa puffs, we would be demanding an investigation as to Hoda's whereabouts that night in question. Maureen, just two more. Hoda Kotb filled in for Savannah Guthrie today. This is also dated Monday, February 9th. And what she said is making me want to vomit. What a ghoul. Trust me, we're going to show the tape, okay? Because you can't take back video. Disgusting opportunist, for all we know. Look at Hoda. I'm just going to couch that for you, troublemaker Rachel, okay? Because I don't want to get anybody in trouble. Rachel, by the way, signs off with this quote, which made me laugh out loud, from Jack Kerouac. I have nothing to offer anyone except my own confusion, which made me think of one of my all-time literary quotes from Oscar Wilde, who upon arriving at customs in New York City in 1882 was asked if he had anything to declare. And he said, I have nothing to declare except my genius. Okay. Teddy Van Halen's British cousin. This is from troublemaker, Nathalie Kennedy. Hi, Nathalie. Nathalie writes us frequently. Um, over the weekend, the show pup idol in the UK, how do we not have a pup idol in America? Where's, uh, where's, uh, what's his name? Simon Cowell. Where's he on that? Okay. Over the weekend, And the show Pup Idol in the UK voted for a gorgeous, fluffy Pomeranian as the nation's cutest dog. This palm is named Boris. And Nathalie says that Teddy Van Halen has a British cousin. This is so cute. Perfect palate cleanser for everything we've been discussing today. Please, please keep your feedback coming. Email me at maureen at devilmaycaremedia.com or DM me on Instagram at maureencallaghanwriter or at The Nerve Show. And remember to subscribe to The Nerve's sub stack. That is our weekly email. You just go over to thenerveshow.com and you will see a prompt. Would you like to get our weekly email? Put your own address in and boom, every Friday, 3 p.m. Eastern. It just arrives in your inbox and it's more bonus content. And we also are talking to our troublemakers. My recommendations are in there. Trust me, I'm reading all your emails, asking for certain things, and we give them to you. Okay? Coming up. Hoda, we're doing it. It's time. See you in a minute. The old adage, you are what you eat, often feels truer as we age. So if you are searching for an on-the-go protein snack that truly satisfies, try Mosh Bars. Founded by Maria Shriver and her son, Patrick Schwarzenegger, Mosh was created to spark conversation around brain health after Maria's father battled Alzheimer's. They partnered with top scientists to create bars made with brain-supporting ingredients like ashwagandha, lion's mane, collagen, omega-3s, and cognizant. There are nine flavors, including plant-based options that all taste amazing. And Mosh donates proceeds to women's Alzheimer's research. So if you would like to find a way to give back to others and fuel your body and your brain, Mosh bars are the perfect choice for you. Head to moshlife.com slash nerve to save 20% off plus free shipping on the bestsellers trial pack or the new plant-based trial pack that's 20% off, plus free shipping on either the bestsellers trial pack or the plant-based trial pack at moshlife.com slash nerve. And thank you, Dimash, for sponsoring this episode. We are back, and so is Hoda Copy. We predicted this last week, and we wanted to be very gentle with all of this because the horror of the abduction of Nancy Guthrie was so fresh that to talk about what the lizards over at Studio 1A at NBC are up to, trust me, just my troublemaker opinion, okay? They're more concerned with what Savannah's absence means for their careers and who's going to get bumped up to the top than anything else. Trust me. And if you need proof of that, I will point you to the nerve from last week in which we played Jenna Bush Hager and Chanel on the fourth hour of today, weeping about their dear friend Savannah and her missing mother and how there was a vigil at the church in New York City that Jenna and Savannah attend religiously together because they're so devout in their Christianity. But did Jenna bother to go to that vigil after taping her bullshit show? No. Did Chanel even bother to watch the online simulcast or the online, just download it later and watch it? No, no. These people are disgusting. So Hoda's back. Hoda's Joy 101 app has been flopping all over the country. Nobody wants it. Nobody wants it. But now Savannah is in Tucson for who knows how long, waiting for some kind of resolution to her mother's disappearance. And who answered the call to sit in Savannah's chair, which, you know, trust me, when you're in deep grief, anybody who's experienced deep grief knows this. Rage rides right alongside you. Rage is your dark passenger. and when you've got rage, you need a place to put it and trust me, when Savannah is through the worst of this, she's going to have a lot of rage at Hoda gunning for her chair because make no mistake, that's what's happening here. Take a look at the Today Show, the opening of the Today Show on Monday, February 9th as the search for Savannah's mother enters week two. Here we go. From NBC News, This is Today with Savannah Guthrie and Craig Melvin from Studio 1A in Rockefeller Plaza. And a very good morning to you. Welcome to Today on this Monday morning. Thank you so much for starting your week with us. Hoda is joining us while Savannah remains with her family in Arizona. We are grateful to have you here. You know what, Craig? We always talk about our show as a family. We are a family. I'm part of the family. I'm happy to be with you because we show up for each other. So yes. Okay. For one thing, Hoda can barely contain her glee that she is sitting in Savannah's chair, no matter that Savannah is still announced as the star of the today show. Hoda's there. And Craig doesn't really seem all that happy about it. And, you know, he paternalistically puts his hand on Hoda's shoulder on her back to sort of like, it's patronizing. It's like, yeah, you're here for the moment, but don't get too comfortable. And Hoda, Hoda pushes right back at that. And she says, you know what, Craig, you know what? We often talk about how we're a family at the Today Show, which we all know is horse shit. Okay. We often talk about how we're a family at the Today Show. And you know what? I'm family. I'm family. So she's inserting herself now. And she's saying, I'm not going anywhere. And then she has the fucking gall to say, I'm happy to be here. you know no wonder her joy 101 app is flopping because she's a total fucking hypocrite she is really happy to be there she's really happy to be there you know what a real friend would say a real friend would say you know what i'm doing this with savannah's blessing a real friend would have made sure that it was okay. And we saw Hoda force Savannah to be part of her Joy 101 YouTube show about a week or so ago on the Nerve. And it was beyond clear that Savannah was barely tolerating the presence of Hoda. I mean, she was like actually like kind of verbally, you know, like giving her some real, like, I don't like you. I don't want you in my SUV. Why are you here? I'm sick of seeing you. But no. And then Hoda says, I'm really happy to be here. Let's just go. Let's just go. Instead of saying, I don't want to be here. The reasons why I'm here are terrible and they are tragic. And this is one of the saddest moments of my life, professionally and personally. And everything in my being is thinking and hoping and praying for Savannah and her family and her poor mother. So then, of course that's not going to happen. Again, because Hoda's like vibrating with joy. This is the only thing that matters. She's back on national morning television. Those daughters, those two daughters, which by the way, I hope that morning hosts, like I am in no way blaming Savannah, but you know, Hoda loves to commodify her two adopted daughters. When Hoda left the Today Show to great fanfare last year, she was on the cover of People Fucking Magazine with her two daughters who are school age and who should not be shoved in the national media. You know why Hoda? Because like, as we see, there's a cost that comes with that. now again i'm not blaming savannah in any way anyway i just hate hoda hoda vibrating with this new lease on life over at nbc uh took herself and her camera crew up to good shepherd the church see jenna didn't get to do this segment jenna jenna wise up sister you want the heart felt heartwarming segments like this, you better fucking show up in person to vigils like this. Hoda showed up and Hoda got to go to Good Shepherd and talk to the pastor who has become close to Savannah and Nancy. Here we go. Yeah, indeed. And as we reported earlier in the morning of her disappearance, Nancy was actually supposed to join friends at a neighbor's house to watch an online church service led by the pastor of Good Shepherd. I don't believe this either. It's another show. Both Nancy and Savannah have become close with him over the years, and we did have a chance to speak with him yesterday. Oh, we had a chance to speak with him yesterday. You know what goes into booking somebody like that, especially when the white hot spotlight of American media is on a developing missing persons case. You have to go through a lot of layers, but Hoda, after her debut, You sitting next to Craig in Savannah's chair, grabbed a camera crew, changed clothes, hightailed it up to Good Shepherd to talk to the pastor. You want to talk about ghoulish? Like a ghoul? Like who is in the top running for the Nerve Awards 2026 sitting in the pew that Savannah sits in? Here we go. I sat down with Pastor Michael Rosenda in the very pews she and Savannah often pray in. This is Savannah's church, and it's also Nancy's church, right? Yeah. Over the years, Nancy would visit, and we got a chance to meet her and know her a little bit. And then during the pandemic, we started out of necessity filming our services, our prayers, our sermons, and putting it out there into the world. And during that time, Nancy started to watch. How would you describe Nancy? She's a strong woman, and she is fiercely loving. Over the years, we've gotten to know what makes her tick, in some ways, from a faith perspective. The songs that mean something to her, the scriptures that are meaningful for her. Led by deep faith and conviction instilled by her mother, Savannah is also not a passive participant, calling for prayers as the search for Nancy continues. We believe that somehow, some way she is feeling these prayers and that God is lifting her even in this moment. So note when Hoda is on camera meeting the pastor, Pastor Michael, she comes in with a big hug and she is beaming. She is beaming. and then she's sitting there talking to Pastor Michael and she's asking these questions, ear to ear, smiling, nodding, encouraging him to talk. I mean, we all know that this case does not look like it is going to have a good outcome. And if I am Savannah Guthrie, and please, this case has a good outcome. Of course, that's what we're all hoping for. either way she's going to emerge from this i don't care how religious you are how close to god you are you're going to have some rage and if i'm savannah i'm directing it directly at hoda and i'm going to make sure that hoda never be fouls the studio studio where i work again the church that i attended with my missing mother again talking to my family's pastor Are you effing kidding me? Now we need, we need more. We need this point really drummed through our thick effing skulls that Hoda is really close to Savannah, like really, like single white female. I'm going to skin you like Buffalo Bill, like Hoda is, here we go. Here we go. there was another beautiful song i think it was pastor david played and the lyrics are may you find the light to guide you home it felt so appropriate and i think it's one of isn't that cold play favorites too yeah it's one of savannah's favorites too i know that because i'm her bff i'm her bff okay now let's watch the today's show reaction to this interview hoda is seated i believe she's in between Carson Daly and Craig. Here we go. Beautiful conversation. That place is such a sacred place for both Savannah and her mom. And he has the door open to hope. And even just speaking to him as he speaks to the congregants makes you very hopeful. I like that idea of keeping your heart open as a portal for hope. I love that. That's what hope is. That book, Savannah's book, reminded me when she was on her book tour last year and we did a Q&A at this place in Connecticut and we were talking about our favorite Bible verses during the Q&A. Craig doesn't remember where. It just reminded me of mine, Joshua 1.9. Do not be afraid. Do not be discouraged. For the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go. Okay, this is bullshit for a couple of reasons. Number one, Craig is the guy, as discussed on the Today Show on air, that when the on-air talent has to travel to any given place, he won't talk to them on the airplane. He sits separately from them. And just in case they don't get the point, he puts his earbuds in and his eye mask on. Number two, let's have some real talk. Okay, fake people, let's have some real talk. You could be as religious as it comes, as faithful, as devoted to your God, your religion, whatever. I'm sorry. when random horrific things like this happen, it shakes the faith of even the most devoted person. It makes you go, hey, what kind of a God would allow my 84-year-old sickly mother who can barely move on her own to be dragged from her bed in the dead of night without the medications that she needs to live, that she needs to take daily? There's blood on the ground. and it's been a week and a half since she's been missing and nobody can tell me a goddamn thing. What kind of a God would allow that? That is a logical, fair question to ask. That's it. That's it for this edition of The Nerve at Night. We will be back on Friday with a full Nerve. If you haven't already, check out our sub stack at thenervshow.com. That is our weekly email. Be sure to subscribe plus Nerve merch. Grab something for yourself or pick something up for a fellow traveler slash troublemaker at shopthenerve.com. You can also listen to The Nerve every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday at 9 a.m. Eastern on Megan's podcast playlist, which you can find on Sirius XM channel 111, the Megan Kelly channel. We will see you back here on Friday for a full episode of The Nerve, where you will never guess what we're about to say next. That's God's Love