Trump replaces US Attorney General Pam Bondi

BBC Sounds Music Radio Podcasts. Hello and welcome to News Hour for the BBC World Service. We're coming to you live from London. I'm James Menendez. In a moment, President Trump fires a once close ally, the US Attorney General Pam Bondi. That's our top story. Also today, as Artemis II prepares for its next big manoeuvre, leaving the Earth's orbit. We'll talk to one of the NASA scientists working on the mission about the price precise sequence of commands that will send the crew hurtling towards the moon. I always like to think of this case as actually rocket science. You know, we've calculated out what the trajectory is going to be. We send the commands, we send up and set the burn to go. You know, you burn for a certain amount of time, put the spacecraft on the right trajectory, it's going to go out, it sees the gravity of the moon, and then you come on back. So they're all controlled burns are all executed precisely. And you'll hear from the astronauts on the way out, you know, oh, that was very clean. That was a really good burn, right on track, right on target. And then once that goes, it's time to go off to the moon. More on the Artemis II mission, the next step that's coming up in half an hour. But we are going to begin today in Washington, DC, and that news that broke a couple of hours ago that President Trump had fired his Attorney General Pam Bondi. She had been at one time one of Mr. Trump's closest allies in government. But cracks in the relationship began to appear over her handling of investigations into his political opponents and over the release of the Epstein files. During her confirmation hearings at the beginning of 2025, Bondi promised to, as she put it, restore the Justice Department's credibility. If confirmed, I will fight every day to restore confidence and integrity to the Department of Justice and each of its components. The partisanship, the weaponization will be gone. America will have one tier of justice for all. Well, she faced mounting criticism subsequently over the perceived failure of her department to get justice for the victims of the late paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, as well as pressure from the White House over the reputational damage the scandal was doing. When she appeared before the House Judiciary Committee in February, Pam Bondi expressed regret for what Epstein's victims had suffered, but refused to apologize for the way the investigation had been handled. I am deeply sorry for what any victim, any victim has been through, especially as a result of that monster. Sophia Kai is a White House reporter for political, political, I put it to her that Pam Bondi's removal was only a matter of time. Look, I think everything just added up to a point where we reach April of a midterm year. President Trump can't wait too close to get to the midterms to remove cabinet members that he's dissatisfied with. And even last year, President Trump, his frustration with Pam Bondi kind of rose to a surface and we believe he accidentally made public this truth that he meant to send to Attorney General Bondi privately saying that essentially he was not moving fast enough to go after people that he believed had wronged him like Adam Schiff and LaTisha James. That compounded with the handling of the Epstein's files. I think Pam Bondi never was able to regain her footing. I mean, which do you think was more important for President Trump? What was it the former? And what were the constraints that were on her? Look, this is a really tough job because this particular cabinet position, along with DHS Secretary, which was the other person that President Trump had demoted. That's Chris T. Noem, yeah. That's Chris T. Noem earlier this year. And this is happening because these are the positions that President Trump cares most about. On DHS, he cares about the removal of undocumented immigrants. And I think President Trump feels strongly that he was targeted by a DOJ during the Biden administration that was weaponized against him. So he wanted to see movements. And, you know, fortunately or unfortunately for Pam Bondi, it is really hard to get an indictment. You have to build a case against, you know, people like Adam Schiff, people like Tisha James. And these are cases that are hard to build. And you have career prosecutors who are being asked to build this case. And sometimes there's just nothing there. Because it was always the case with past administrations that there was much more an arms length relationship between the White House and the DOJ. Am I right? Yeah. Yeah. And Trump just doesn't view it this way. I mean, on a lot of legal matters, right? Yesterday, we saw President Trump attend Supreme Court hearings. That was another historic first. In this case, last year, we saw President Trump personally appealed to his Attorney General to go after his political enemies. That too is unprecedented. But I think that is Trump's way. And I think there's an expectation from him of not just loyalty, but also competence in his eyes of moving fast and moving quickly. So whoever is chosen to take up that spot permanently will have tough shoes to fill. I think it's a very difficult job because, you know, as we just discussed, these are two positions that Trump actually keeps track of. He may not be always paying attention every day to what's going on at the EPA or what's going on at Department of Labor. But these two positions are different. And Sophia, I mean, it's early, early hours. But I mean, what's been the reaction so far? Look, I think Bondi is someone who has allies in the White House and elsewhere. President Trump's true social was also one that was kind. He was he was complimentary of a person that he's removing from this post. And what you saw after were White House staffers, former White House staffers, members of Congress, and MAGA allies coming out on X to thank Pam Bondi for her service. That was Sophia Kai, White House reporter for Politico. Well, let's get some more reaction. Gloria already is a very prominent women's rights lawyer in the US who represents a number of Jeffrey Epstein's accusers. She joins me on the line now from Los Angeles. Gloria, thank you very much indeed for your time. I mean, just first of all, your reaction to Pam Bondi's firing. Well, thank you for inviting me, James. It's long overdue. I represent a number of survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and some of Miss Maxwell. And Pam Bondi just made a complete mess of the release of the Epstein files. Many of the survivors supported and rallied and lobbied for the Epstein Files Transparency Act to release all of the Epstein files. But they did always say that they wanted the names of the victims, the survivors, who wanted to be Jane Doe's, in other words, not use their legal name to be redacted so that that privacy could be respected. And in fact, all of the files were supposed to be released on December 19th. They weren't all released. One of the reasons that the Department of Justice, which Pam Bondi headed, gave for not following the law and the release of all the files was that they needed more time to protect the names of the survivors who wanted to be Jane Doe's and make sure that the legal names were redacted in the files. So they took more time in violation of the law. And then when they released the names or the files, the names of the Jane Doe's and legal names were published for all to see, including in many cases, their photos, their driver's licenses, their passports, their private emails to and from Jeffrey Epstein and others, and other types of documents. And what were the consequences of that? What were the consequences? Sorry to interrupt you. And what were the consequences of that? What was the impact? Okay, the impact was very traumatic for many of the Jane Doe's. Emotionally, they were retraumatized. It had a negative impact on many of their personal relationships, their business relationships, their family relationships, their intimate relationships with their husbands or partners. And it was just devastating to them. And then when we immediately asked that their names be redacted and get all of that private information out of the files, in some cases, they did it. But by the time they did it, many people had, you know, taken screenshots. And so, you know, they were devastated. And then even then after they did redact a few days later, a week later, again, they published more files. Again, the legal names were out there for the Jane Doe's. So this was so unforgivable. And I said, you know, this is not just a mistake. And it happens one time. It's happening over and over again. I'm wondering if they're trying to punish the survivors for having lobbied to get the files released. And for trying to win justice in this case, it's just wrong. And right now, I think, James, that perhaps the only justice the survivors are going to see in the Department of Justice is the end of Pam Bondi as Attorney General. What about her appearance before the House Judiciary Committee? That was back in February. What about the tone of her appearance? I mean, she got a lot of criticizing criticism for not apologizing directly to survivors. What was the impact of that? Well, that was a disgrace. She I watched that she avoided evaded and tried to escape answering questions that were directed at her, which were specific questions. Instead, she went on the attack calling members of Congress names, blaming other people. I've never seen anyone do that before the Judiciary Committee of the House of Representatives. They all knew that she was not wanting to answer the questions directly. She was covering she was trying to mimic President Trump and just go on the attack and call people names, ad hominem attacks, which people usually do when they don't want to give the facts or they don't want to discuss the law. It's the lowest form of argument. And and we all saw it from what it was a transparent effort to avoid responsibility and accountability. Laura, can I just ask you this? And we've only got about sort of 4550 seconds to go. Do you think anything's going to change now that she's gone and Todd Blanch is going to take over at least in the interim? I don't think anything will change because Trump once he's just ruined it. He's treated the Department of Justice as though it's his own private law firm, which it's not. It is as you pointed out earlier supposed to be an independent arm. Ever since President Nixon, you know, tried to manipulate him for his own person purposes. And it will take years for the Department to win the trust of victims, which they so rightly deserve. And that's because, you know, as they say, the fish stinks from the head. President Trump is the one who is manipulating the present the Department of Justice for his own ends. That's not going to work. If Democrats are elected in November, there's going to be a lot of investigations of this Department of Justice and how it's been ruined. Thank you very much indeed for your time today. That was Gloria Orode, who represents a number of Jeffrey Epstein's accusers joining us from LA. You're listening to News app. Coming up later, more than 40 countries have been meeting to discuss ways to persuade Iran to reopen the Strait of Hormuz. Iran's reckless strikes are attacking international shipping, seeking to hijack the global economy. That's affecting petrol prices, but also jet fuel across the world, fertilizer to Africa, and also gas to Asia. Well, that coming up in 20 minutes. Headlines from the newsroom at the moment, President Trump, as we've been hearing, has fired his Attorney General, Pam Bondi, whose face criticism for her handling of the Epstein files. There's been a day of intense US and Israeli strikes across Iran after Mr Trump threatened to bomb the country back to the Stone Age and Romania celebrating the recovery of an ancient gold helmet that was stolen last year while on loan to a Dutch Museum. This is James Menendez with News app live from the BBC. Well, the war in Iran is also, of course, a war in Lebanon after Israel launched its latest offensive against Hezbollah, the militia group that's backed by Iran. It's been bombing Hezbollah positions from the air, some of them in residential areas of the capital Bay route, and it has troops on the ground in southern Lebanon from where Hezbollah has been firing rockets towards northern Israel. Indeed, on Wednesday, Israel's Defense Minister said his forces would continue to occupy a large chunk of southern Lebanon, even after the war ends, and that they destroy all villages along the border. The bombing and the fighting have forced about a million Lebanese to leave their homes. That's about a six of the population. Many of them have now spent weeks in government shelters with little or no prospect of returning home. Amy Pope is Director General of the International Organization for Migration, a body linked to the United Nations. She's in Lebanon at the moment. So the situation is quite grave. There are over one million people who have been displaced in the last month. If you think back to the conflict that happened in at the end of 2024, it's a significantly higher number. And that's coming on top of people who had been displaced from that conflict and had not been able to go home before. On top of that, it's coming at a time when the stress on the humanitarian system to respond is greater than ever. Many, many governments have cut their humanitarian support for people in need, the resources to support even some of the most basic needs are just not there. And so that confluence of impact is serious. And that lack of, I mean, funding, essentially, what does that mean in practice for those who have had to flee their homes? It means that people don't necessarily have the shelter they need. They don't necessarily have the food or the clothing or even the most basic baby formulas they need. The government has asked for a list of just the most basic life-saving support to support those whose homes have been destroyed, whose communities are no longer safe to stay in, who are now seeking refuge, primarily in places like Beirut, which is already crowded and where the refuge points are already quite limited. I mean, do you see any of that extra help that's needed coming down the pipeline, as it were? Well, we hope so. I mean, this is why it's so important to tell the story of the people that we're speaking to. It's families who are sleeping on floors. We are hearing from people who've lost their livelihoods who don't have any future support. And without some level of assistance, this could become a much more serious crisis. The displacement doesn't stop just when the bombing stops. At that point, people have to look and often rebuild their homes, determine whether or not there's anything to go back to. So the repercussions of what's happening could last for years. And that's the point. I mean, many of these people won't be able to go back in the near future. I mean, Israel said that it's going to expand what it calls its security buffer zone and it stretches quite a long way into Lebanon. It's also says it's going to raise some of the villages along the border. So as I say, those people won't have homes to go back to. So what happens to them? Well, that's the most alarming factor that we're dealing with right now. This could be a very prolonged displacement. As you can imagine, prolonged displacement actually increases tensions within communities and increases strains on already stretched social services, having to redistribute effectively a million people in different parts of the country, but also in places where they can have access to job opportunities. It's a major challenge for a government that already is dealing with a number of challenges. That was Amy Pope, who's head of the International Organization for Migration. Now, if you're listening to the BBC World Service yesterday, you may have heard the following report. A Seychelles giant tortoise called Jonathan, believed to be one of the world's oldest living land animals, has died at the estimated age of 193. His death was announced by a vetted cared for him on the southern Atlantic Island of St Helena. Well, it turns out that while Jonathan's age wasn't exaggerated, rumors of his death were the social media account purporting to belong to the vet, Joe Hollins, on which the BBC multiple media outlets based their reports, was a fake. So what's going on a cruel April Fool or something else? Nigel Phillips is the governor of St Helena. And he's been speaking to my colleague James Kumara Sami. Jonathan is alive and well. I was first contacted about the news of the hoax last night, and actually went out into the paddock in the pitch black to make sure that he is full of his usual vim and vigor. In some ways, he's actually getting more healthy. We know that giant Seychelles tortoises are believed to be fully grown when they're 50 years of age. When he arrived, his shell was measured. And he has not got any larger. So it's reasonable to pursue he was fully grown. If you take his date of arrival plus the 50 years, he is approximately 193. But he could be more. How do you think of him? Is he a pet? Is he an institution? How would you describe him? Definitely not a pet. Institution is possibly a good word. The association between Jonathan, the island is so long and deep. And days gone by, people would have wedding photographs with him. It was very much part of the fabric of the island. But yeah, if I were to sort of extrapolate from this, the contact I was getting last night in response to the hoax tells me very much that not only is an animal of great importance to us, he seems to have resonated with people across the world. Yeah, I mean, so hoax clearly the BBC amongst others fell for. Do you have any idea yet what's behind it? Was it was it any coincidence this happened on April the first? Our initial understanding is that this was something that originated in South America, and that somebody was attempting to invite people to give currency to a crypto donation using falsely the name of the form of vet who's written a book on Jonathan Joe Hollands. So I fear it was slightly more than just April falls, it feels a little more contrived than that. No one is immortal. I guess, you know, Jonathan's had a very, very good run, hasn't he? And you're saying he's getting healthier, if anything. But I mean, I guess this has made people contemplate the possibility of him no longer being there. You will understand that as the governor, I really say I certainly hope that it doesn't happen during my tenure. You're talking to the vets here, it's very difficult to determine what might actually result in his demise. If he's in a safe environment, he's well fed, he gets the right nutrients, you know, he seems to have longevity built in. He does suffer physical ailments he has difficulty seeing has a cataract and one eye, and a number of the faculties are sort of diminishing. But his appetite has not changed at all. And trying to be delicate about this, his appetite for all sorts of things, is that right? I mean, it's someone who might have an eye on his succession, shall we say? Approximately six days a week, he sort of mows the lawn, eats grass, as all four of the toasters in the paddock do. But in order to make sure he gets his essential minerals, one day a week, usually a Sunday, he gets some fruit and veg and salad. He has a sweet tooth, he particularly likes soft, soft sweet fruits, guavas, things like that. And he's quite partial to carrots. He sort of recognizes the sound of certain people. My wife is one of those who feeds him. And you know, he will move toward you at some pace in order to make sure he gets his food. One of the four tortoises is a female. It's known as Emma, which is the same name as my wife, who would have thought it, but anyway, and yes, there is activity. And Emma does have eggs, sadly, none of them have proven to be viable. We have tried to incubate a few with the vet, but it's just not worked. All I will say, without being in any way gratuitous about this, you are in no doubt when certain things are happening, the noise is quite significant. That was Nigel Phillips, the governor of St. Helena, also tortoise minder, talking there to my colleague James Kamarasami. You're listening to News Adoost, over this lots more coming up in the second half of the program. Welcome back to News Air. Now from shows featuring a hologram Elvis to Judy Garland, a rating audiobooks, a growing industry is emerging around the legacies of celebrities after their deaths. But there is a fierce debate over the ethics of reviving stars digitally, as the BBC's Sean Allsop reports. I'm in a secret location where they're preparing a show for one of the biggest stars the world has ever seen. It's a dark warehouse. There are many technicians around working away. And then a giant screen lights up. It's Elvis Presley in a way you have never experienced him in a brand new show. But how is this possible? Elvis isn't in the building. In fact, he's dead. But that's not stopping him and others still bringing in millions after death. Firstly, what exactly are estates? In short, an estate refers to the people, usually family members, who inherit control over a celebrity's work after they pass away. They manage the legal rights and finances tied to the artist's legacy. Every October, Forbes magazine publishes a list of the highest earning dead celebrities. In 2024, the top five earned over a billion dollars, with Michael Jackson topping the list, followed by Freddie Mercury, Dr. Seuss, and in fourth place, Elvis. My name's Mark Rossler. I'm the chairman, CEO and founder of CMG Worldwide. We're in our 45th year. My first client was the Elvis Presley estate in 1981. Estates usually work with managing companies, people like Mark Rossler. It's not uncommon for a famous personality for, let's call them the handlers, so to speak, to approach us within a month or two after someone passes away. The speed of new technology means another opportunity has arisen. An estate's now asking, should we resurrect these dead celebrities? But I wanted to see myself something new being made with a star of old. I'm back at the Elvis show rehearsals in London, in the UK, with its director, Jack Peary. It's called Elvis Evolution, and it's an immersive experience being created to tell the story of Elvis. In some sequences, you are physically walking through an environment, in others, you're seated, and in this sequence, you'll be seated. So this will happen in 360 around you as you're seated and you experience sun records and 1950s memphis. It's a murky world. On one hand, we're preserving the legacies of those we love in exciting new ways. On the other, we might be crossing a line into something that's exploitive. But as technology continues to evolve, we'll face more decisions over what we choose to buy from those in the past. Sean Allsop reporting there. There's more on that story in business daily, just search for the program wherever you get your BBC podcast. But this is News Air. This is the BBC World Service in London, you're listening to News Air and I'm James Menendez. Now this time yesterday, we were all on tenterhooks waiting to see if Artemis 2 will be ready for takeoff when the window for launch opened in the early hours of the evening local time. Well, after a few last minute hitches, the mission was given the green light to go and I make no apologies for playing you the moment of takeoff once again. And here we go. 10, 9, 8, 7, RS 25 engines, 4, 3, 2, 1, booster ignition, and lift off the crew of Artemis 2 now bound for the moon. Humanity's next great voyage begins. Well, today we're poised once again for another launch of sorts. This time the burst of acceleration that'll send them the crew hurtling out of orbit towards the moon that's expected to happen in about four hours. Meanwhile, the four astronauts on board have been getting some sleep and getting on with the job including fixing, thankfully, a broken toilet. Reed Wiseman, Victor Glove, Christina Koch and Jeremy Hansen are currently about 70,000 kilometers above the surface of the Earth, much higher than the International Space Station. You all as well. Things are progressing well with PRB Ops. We can do a quick tag up here shortly once we get our story ready. That sounds good. In the meantime, none of us have a PRB burn pad. Is that expected? That is expected. We are in the process of uplinking a burn pad right now. Yes, it is very cold in the cabin. Any chance you can make it warmer or reduce the cabin fan? Taster, some of the conversations going on inside the capsule capsule in the past few hours. Well, Dr. Joe Westlake, is a senior scientist with NASA. He's at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida. He's Helio Physics Division Director with the agency, meaning he's in charge of studying the sun and its effect on space and indeed space missions. More on that in a moment. But first, I asked Joe, what's going to happen on board the spacecraft later in a few hours time? Yes. So next up for this crew is to execute the trans lunar injection burn. So that actually takes them out of their high altitude orbit that they're in right now and charts them on that path to the moon to actually go out and around the moon and come on back. I mean, you make it sound very easy. I mean, there's this sort of slingshot effect, isn't it? I mean, how does it work? The engines go on that fires the capsule in the direction that you want it to go and what and then it's up to the moon's gravity to make sure that the journey happens as planned. Yeah, I mean, in many ways, I always like to think of this case is actually rocket science. You know, we've calculated out what the trajectory is going to be. We send the commands we send up and set the burn to go. You know, you burn first, earn amount of time, put the spacecraft on the right trajectory, it's going to go out, it sees the gravity of the moon, and then you you come on back. So they're all controlled burns are all executed precisely. And you'll hear from the astronauts on the way out, you know, oh, that was very clean. That was a really good burn, right on track, right on target. And so far so good, everything's been right on track, right on target. Yeah, well, I was going to ask you, I mean, what needs to go right for this burn to happen? I mean, presumably, everything has to be in place, right? Yeah, I mean, they're going to go through all their regular checks, they're going to make sure the spacecraft is ready to go, they're going to make sure that they are ready to go, they're going to make sure Houston confirms that they're seeing everything is nominal and how you'd like it to be. And then once that goes, it's time to go off to the moon. Is there any margin for error in terms of the trajectory that they'll be on presumably if I mean, if it's even slightly out, then it could have huge consequences further down the journey, right? Yeah, of course. But at the same time, I think we're pretty good. In that case, our engineers and our team are some of the best. And I hope when you saw the launch yesterday, you saw a feeling of that, right? You could see the precision, you could see the execution of the team, and really the confidence of these folks as they go through. And frankly, if anything is out of nominal, out of notional, then they have lots of contingencies in which they wouldn't execute exactly as planned. But at every step, there's a contingency. If something doesn't quite look right, that gets our astronauts back home safe. Which leads me on to a question I did want to ask, because I know that in the early Apollo missions in the early days of the space program, you know, the computing power available was pretty minimal compared to now. And I think some of the calculations were even done by hand on paper. How much easier is all this with the sort of huge computing power that is available now? I mean, I've got to say the math are the same, right? I think we can just be a little bit more precise. And the other piece of it is, is that the knowledge that we get from the capsule, and the data, the telemetry that we're getting down, give us so much more information about what's going on. So I think a lot of that allows us to really understand and be able to compute better. But then also, you know, you talked about the computing power. And one of the cool things along with that, isn't just being able to calculate and get the right trajectories, but also being able to experience the journey with the astronauts together. You know, they've got iPhones up there with them, that they're recording and giving us, you know, a perspective that I think is very relatable. And crucially, when they do get to the dark side of the moon, the far side of the moon, I mean, that is going to be quite a moment for them. And as you say, you know, the images that they capture and send back, we here on earth always see the same side of the moon. Anytime that we've seen the far side of the moon, it's either been from the Apollo astronauts, or from a robotic mission out there. And one of the big things is that we know that the far side of the moon is just so different. It's a much more rougher terrain, and it has lots of different features. And just to be able to hear and experience that through these new astronauts' eyes is going to be really remarkable for me and for I think the rest of us. Tell us about space weather. That is your specialism. I mean, what is it, first of all? I mean, how can it affect the astronauts and their capsule? I mean, you think about anytime you board a plane, you want to know what the weather is. You want to know what the winds are. You want to know whether or not you're going to have a good or a bad flight, turbulence or other things. The unique part about flying in space is that you don't have to worry about winds. But now you've got the sun. And the sun creates space weather, whether it be coronal mass ejections or flares or other things that create radiation issues or communications issues for this mission. For the most part, we've dealt with all of those contingencies. Their capsule has sufficient shielding for them. They're going to see a fairly moderate or a minimal dose on their way out. It's about equivalent to a month on the ISS worth of radiation dose. And then, you know, we're always monitoring 24 seven the sun, looking for cases in which, you know, it may give us more space weather, it may give us more radiation events, and then being able to give that warning and forecast out to the astronauts is a big deal. That was NASA's Dr. Joe Westlake. And it's just been reported by one of the news agencies anyway, I haven't got confirmation yet. I'm just looking at the NASA website. But one of the news agencies saying the NASA has given the Artemis crew the green light to head towards the moon, although that maneuver, as I say, is due to happen in a few hours time. Now let's return to the war in Iran now and the problem that's affecting people all over the world. Iran's military stranglehold over the Strait of Hormuz that narrow, but vital artery that allows oil gas fertilizer and other important exports to flow out of the region. Today, the British government hosted a meeting of more than 40 countries to discuss ways to get the straight open again to see traffic, not military ways. There'll be another meeting about that next week. But the sort of economic and diplomatic pressure that countries might be able to put on Iran. I've been talking to our security correspondent Frank Gardner. So what came out of today's meeting? It was long on condemnation of Iran. There was no condemnation of America or Israel for starting this war of choice. All the condemnation was aimed at the Iranian regime. And it was long on unity on stressing the fact that this is 41 countries that were involved in today's virtual meeting, representing every continent except for Antarctica. What it was short on was really practical measures and steps to get the straight of Hormuz unlocked. There's talk of additional sanctions on Iran. Iran is already incredibly heavily sanctioned. And they are in no mood to buckle. And Iran is in quite a strong position right now because it is essentially deciding which tankers get through and which ones don't. And it is absolute nonsense. When President Trump says it's very easy to open the straight of Hormuz. It's only going to be opened by negotiation with Iran. And the one thing that came out of this meeting was that this was about diplomacy and diplomatic measures, not military. Could it be that the diplomacy is not just directed at Iran or potentially at Iran, but also back towards the United States? In other words, some of these countries wanting to show Washington that it is taking this seriously. And it is prepared to do something if perhaps not yet militarily. I thought you were going to when you started that question, I thought you're going to ask, are they going to try and put pressure on Washington to stop the war? Because that is one way that this would end, although not guaranteed, because the problem is if the war ended tomorrow, where it stands now, Iran would be in a very strong position in terms of the straight of Hormuz. I'm not sure about that, whether that's necessarily going to going to work. I mean, there are a lot of things going on behind the scenes. The Gulf Arab states, for example, where I've just come from reporting for much of March, they are divided on this. So there are some who pretty much take the view, look, we can't change geography, Iran is our neighbor, eventually, we're going to just have to live with this regime, you know, and we might just have to accommodate it in some way. There are others who say this, we can't live with this regime, we've got we want America to finish the job and finish the regime. Some countries have taken such a battering from Iranian missiles in the region, that they are saying the only way out of this is to keep going until that regime collapses. I wouldn't be too confident about that. You know, if they've survived five weeks of this, there's a good chance they'll survive more of it. But let's see, let's see, you know, what happens in the next few weeks. Yeah, and if that is the case, and countries decide to take a pragmatic approach, might it just come down to money, some sort of arrangement where countries, companies, tankers, they pay a fixed sum to pass through the Strait of Omus? It could well do because that is what's already happening. There is an island that is just, well, it's pretty much on the Strait of Omus, it's an Iranian island called Larak. It's right next to Qashem, I've spent a bit of time on Qashem and any of these islands, especially the larger ones, could, is where you could hide weapons that could threaten shipping, which is why, you know, there's no question of being able to open up the Strait of Omus without Iranian permission, because as long as they've got the capability to ambush ships with some of their hidden weapons insurers simply aren't going to take that risk. But there is that island, Larak, where currently, tankers that Iran approves of, either ones that it owns, or ones that have negotiated some kind of a deal with Iran, whether they be China, Pakistan, India, for example, or Russia, they are sailing close to Larak Island, being checked over, reportedly paying a one to $2 million fee, a kind of toll, and it's becoming known as the Hormuz Toll Booth. And that is something which today's meeting said is completely unacceptable. And that was our security correspondent Frank Gardner telling me about some of what was discussed at that meeting of more than 40 countries. There was a virtual meeting that the British government hosted today about trying to get the Strait of Hormuz unblocked, as it were, as ever, all the latest on the Iran War on our website. There is a live page up and running with all the latest on it, bbc.com forward slash news. You're listening to news out, we're going to be hearing from inside Iran in the remainder of the program. This is James Menendez with NewsHour. Well, President Trump's decision to fire his Attorney General Pam Bondi. Well, that's already supplanted coverage of his televised address on Wednesday evening about the war in Iran, a speech that didn't resolve any of the uncertainties over when the conflict might end. Today, the oil price was once again up and stock markets down overfist that it may yet go on for several more weeks. Well, during the speech, there were more threats against the regime in Tehran. We're going to hit them extremely hard over the next two to three weeks. We're going to bring them back to the Stone Ages where they belong. In the meantime, discussions are ongoing. Regime change was not our goal. We never said regime change, but regime change has occurred because of all of their original leaders death. They're all dead. Well, with President Trump threatening to bomb the country back to the Stone Age and after more than a month of constant bombardment, what is the mood among people in Iran? The regime in Tehran's impose an internet blackout and security forces are threatening anyone passing information to foreign media. But using trusted sources, the BBC has managed to obtain testimonies from ordinary Iranians suffering under wartime conditions. We've hidden their identities and are not using their real voices. This reports from our special correspondent, Fergal Keem. It is a harsh spring of broken glass, wind blowing through collapsed buildings that sends dust sweeping along empty streets. For the people of Tehran, the only news they can trust is that which they see and hear happening before them. But from inside Iran, we've obtained first hand testimony of people trapped between American and Israeli airstrikes and state repression. We saw smoke rising into the sky, but we didn't know what place had been targeted. Satara is an office worker in Tehran. After that, everyone working in the company panicked. People were shouting and screaming and running away. For one to two hours, the situation stayed like that. Complete chaos. Now like millions of Iranians, she's unemployed and feels trapped in her home, running out of food with no money to buy any. I don't know how this massive wave of unemployment will be handled. There is no support system, and the government will do nothing for all these unemployed people. I believe the real war will start if this war ends without any outcome. Nightly bombing has stolen her ability to sleep naturally. She lies awake, worrying about the present and the future. I can honestly say I haven't slept for several nights and days in a row. I try to relax by taking very strong painkillers so I can sleep. The anxiety is so intense that it has affected my body. When I think about the future and imagine those conditions, I truly don't know what to do. Satara has now fled the city for a rural area. As she left, she passed the ruins of the latest airstrikes. Tina is a nurse in the hospital outside Tehran. I witnessed extremely distressing scenes. They were not bringing in the wounded. They were bringing in bodies that were not even recognisable. Some had no hands. Some had no legs. It was horrifying. Tina says she's haunted by the images of suffering she's witnessed. A pregnant woman was brought to us because of bombardment in her area. Her home was close to a military centre and their house was damaged. When they brought her to the hospital, neither the mother nor the fetus was alive. They ambushed us in one of the alleys, the alley leading to the square. They fired bullets and tear gas. These are the pellets near the spinal cord. And these are the ones near my heart and on the top of it. This here is the trace of tear gas. And this bruising is from the force of impact. Benam is a former political prisoner here showing an x-ray of the damage done by a shotgun to his body. He was wounded by regime gunfire in the January anti-government demonstrations. Then the state killed thousands of its own people. And the threat of that violence is ever present. Benam is now suffering from depression and post-traumatic stress disorder. Once you see how easily your life can be threatened, that a simple incident or a twist of fate can mean death or survival, after that, your life no longer holds the same value for you. And that experience makes you care less about yourself. I will not heal until the day we are in a free world looking back on the suffering we endured in an unfree world and laughing at it. But in Iran, one month into the war, the hour of laughter seems very far away. That was Fergal Keen reporting. Well, the war is of course having a huge impact on oil prices that's affecting people around the world. With the help of the BBC's Language Services, we've been hearing how people in several different countries are coping with those rising fuel costs. Today, it is the turn of Brazil. My name is Marcelo. I'm 41 years old and I am an independent truck driver at the Port of Santos in Brazil. I've been a truck driver for 20 years. And diesel goes up, the cost of the truck goes up too. It becomes impossible to work because freight rates don't keep up, you know. Let me give you an example. I just closed a freight job for 5,000 reais as my costs are already high. When I get halfway through the trip, fuel goes up and that ruins my whole calculation. So I'm doing a job where I'm not going to have anything left because I agreed on a price and when I'm halfway through, the cost has already changed. So in the end, you don't make anything. I'm working for free, you know. You can't pay your bills, truck insurance, financing. Anyone with high debts can't pay them. It affects everything in a truck driver's life. What I think is that this problem comes from way back. From past governments because there wasn't much investment in Petroblas, you know. Brazil has nothing to do with this war. We are self-sufficient in oil, but we are not self-sufficient in refining. So we are depending on imports because of the incompetence of all the politicians that came before, understand? That's my opinion. This Trump government, I think it's attacking other countries like Venezuela, which is rich in oil. Now Iran, rich in oil. I think it's, I don't know, a war for ego. A war of guys with power, you know. That was Marcelo, a truck driver from Brazil. Bringing us to the end of this edition of NewsHour. Thanks so much for your company over the past hour. For me and the rest of the team, thanks for listening. I'll be back at the same time tomorrow. Until then, bye-bye. you