Episode 330

Skincare experts and dermatologists have often touted the benefits of indoor humidity as essential for healthy glowing skin. But did you know dry air can start to harm your skin in as little as 30 minutes? For years, many people have relied on humidifiers for better skin, sleep, and overall wellness. But traditional models, bulky, mold prone, and difficult to maintain. That's where canopy humidifier comes in. Recommended by leading dermatologists, canopy is a completely reimagined humidifier designed to elevate any space, offering the ultimate in skin care and wellness benefits. Can't-a-be's clean moisture come bad strina, dullness, and fine lines while strengthening the skin's barrier and boosting the effectiveness of topical skincare products. With its sleek design, canopy is the cleanest and easiest humidifier on the market. With its unique technology, cleaning is as easy as popping it in the dishwasher. Go to getcanopy.co to save $25 on your canopy humidifier purchase today with Can't-a-be's filter subscription. Even better, use COAT Podcast to check out to save an additional 10% off your canopy purchase. Your skin will thank you. Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. What happened? It's okay. It's okay. Get it off your chest. I didn't do anything. You're a liar. You danced around in her blood and blah, blah, yay me look at me. Here's to you, Satan. Here's to you my first sacrifice. Life is hard, but it is wonderful isn't it? And every day is a gift. So thank you for sharing yours with us today. This is episode 330 of Sword and Scale a show that reveals at the worst monsters. Alright. Skincare experts and dermatologists have often touted the benefits of indoor humidity as essential for healthy glowing skin. But did you know dry air can start to harm your skin in as little as 30 minutes? For years, many people have relied on humidifiers for better skin, sleep and overall wellness. But traditional models, bulky, mold prone and difficult to maintain. That's where canopy humidifier comes in. Recommended by leading dermatologists, canopy is a completely reimagined humidifier designed to elevate any space, offering the ultimate in skin care and wellness benefits. Canopies clean moisture, come that's dryness, dullness and fine lines, while strengthening the skin's barrier and boosting the effectiveness of topical skin care products. With its sleek design, canopy is the cleanest and easiest humidifier on the market. With its unique technology, cleaning is as easy as popping it in the dishwasher. Go to getcanopy.co to save $25 on your canopy humidifier purchase today with Canopies filter subscription. Even better, use code podcast to check out to save an additional 10% off your canopy purchase. Your skin will thank you. Tucked into the northern edge of St. Joseph, Missouri, Krug Park spans 163 acres of meticulously landscaped grounds. Renaissance style architecture and winding, walking trails. Sounds nice. Not for its rose gardens, quiet lagoon and even whimsical, Italian castle. The park draws families and joggers alike, especially when it transforms into a glowing spectacle during the holidays. But beneath its tranquil charm and seasonal cheer, Krug Park holds a dark memory. One that shattered, it's peaceful facade. I'm not sure I run in the trail, but Krug Park and I'm pretty sure I just ran right across the dead body. Why do you think there's a dead body there? I wasn't sure if it was a mannequin, like how we're not, but it's just sitting there still. I just stood there for two minutes trying to figure everything in. It's real. I didn't touch it. I didn't know if it was. Do you have any injuries, anything like that? I do. I came up to the front, but it looked like a whole working middle of a chest and then a cut by your neck, like when you were next with wood. Okay, can you describe the person to me? Young lady completely spectra-cogral wristoff, and shoes are like this too. Did you see any hair or eye color on the female? No eyes or wide open their brown shoes. On the morning of October 16th, 2016, a young man was walking through Krug Park when he made a discovery that would haunt him for the rest of his life. He found the body of a teenage girl lying exposed on the jogging trail. She had been stabbed repeatedly. Her throat slit. This was no accident. It was a brutal and deliberate killing. When investigators arrived, the details were as strange as they were disturbing. The girl was naked. Her clothes tossed nearby in plain sight. No attempt had been made to hide her or the clothing. There were no signs of sexual assault and no form of identification. It was found. A search of the surrounding area turned up only a few broken and seemingly useless pieces of a cell phone. A medical examiner later concluded that the murder had taken place recently, likely within 24 hours of the body being found. It was ultimately determined that the teenage girl was killed the night before. The investigators' first priority was to identify the girl. Until they had a name, she was referred to only as Krug Park Jane. Hoping for a lead detectives examined her discarded clothing and found a logo on a t-shirt, one belonging to a nearby high school. They visited the high school where the principal provided a tentative identification. A 17-year-old student named Caitlin Root. Your book Photos Confirmed It. The victim was Caitlin. Detectives then reached out to her family and continued the investigation by interviewing her father. Now is Caitlin the only child you guys have together? Yes. Okay. And when was the last time you saw Caitlin? It was actually a person. It was probably around the, I think probably the seventh. Okay. Caitlin's parents were divorced and she wasn't living with either of them at the time. Which partly explained why no missing persons report had been filed before her body was found. And when was the last time that she stayed with you? It's been about a year. About a year. What's Caitlin's lifestyle like? Yeah, she's just, what's the follow of her friends? Okay. Do whatever they do. Okay. A few months before the murder, Caitlin's mother was preparing for an out-of-state job transfer. At the time, Caitlin was living with her, but the prospect of leaving her friends behind and sit well. She was determined to stay in St. Joseph. Looking for another option, Caitlin reached out to her best friend's mom and grandmother to ask if she could move in with them. They didn't hesitate and welcomed Caitlin with open arms. They had known Caitlin for years and already thought of her as family. Have you feel about Caitlin before this all happened? What do you think about her? She's my daughter. She's not my biological no. But from the moment she walked in the door and met me, I was mom. That was that. Caitlin was welcomed by a loving family who offered her care and support. But the home was considerably chaotic and very crowded. Who loves her with her? There's a list. There's my buddy Pablo and then Tabitha and her two daughters and then Grandma, Grandpa and then basically their nurses. On-care people? Take care of it. Okay. Yeah. But they also are kind of living in the residents. Oh really? Yeah. There's actually two houses right next to each other. Okay. And so where does Caitlin stay with her? She stayed in Grimals. Despite the crowded living situation, everyone in the house was glad to have Caitlin move in. They genuinely liked her. In fact, Caitlin was well liked by many. Her cheerful personality and charm made people naturally gravitate towards her. Caitlin has... She's crazy. It's a bit crazy. What do you mean by that? Like, she's kind of on my personality. Which is how I'm described. She's lovely and kind of like... And Caitlin's... She's fun to be around. It's very tough. She's fun to be around. Yeah. Tragically, Caitlin's life was cut short at just 17 years old. And investigators were faced with the heartbreaking duty of informing her family and friends that the young woman found in Crag Park was Caitlin Root. You know, there's really no easy way to say this or do this. We do believe it is. Caitlin, that was found up in Crag Park. We're really probably pretty certain it is. We do have a couple pictures that if you'd be willing to take a look out to say it for sure, you know, there's really no easy way to prepare yourself for this. You know, when you're ready, if you just want to... Yeah, that's very... Well, it's certainly certain, or you're 100% or... Yeah, sure. How can you be so sure? Just tell about the picture. I'm so very sorry for your loss. Yeah. It's something that's making you do that, do it. We're going to do everything in our power, you know, to be able to answer all the questions for you. Naturally, everyone who knew and loved Caitlin were desperate for answers. They wanted to know who had done this to her and why. I just want to know who. So we, and we're working on it. I just can't figure out why. Even if we figure out who, why. Hopefully they'll be able to explain it. Caitlin would be that mad at her. I don't know. For a time, the case was a classic who done it. Caitlin was an extremely well-liked teenager, making the brutal nature of her murder all the more perplexing. Investigators and loved ones alike were left asking the same haunting question. Why would anyone want to kill her? Adding to the confusion, no one could explain why Caitlin had even been at Card Park in the first place. So as far as you think it's added, the character would have been walking in the park. OK. Does she enjoy nature at all? She's never been to the park at Card Park ever. OK. It's how many of you know her, she didn't like going there at all. She hasn't been there since I've known her about a year or two. I don't think she would go to the park unless it was a co-herstian. In their efforts to unravel the mystery, investigators spoke with several of Caitlin's family members and everyone she'd been living with. All were cleared, as suspects, and none could shed light on why Caitlin had gone to Card Park that night, the night she was killed. With those leads exhausted, detectives shifted their focus to another group of people. Caitlin's boyfriends. She has dated several people. She has. She was a very promiscuous, little girl. Oh, really? Yes. And I'm not saying that to... No, no disrespect, you're saying it. No disrespect, you're saying it. No disrespect, you're saying it. No disrespect, you're saying it. No disrespect, you're saying it. No disrespect, you're saying it. And she and I had gotten into an argument over it. I said, Caitlin, you don't have to do that to be liked. Do you think she was doing it to be liked? I think she was doing it to be liked to... to fit in. Caitlin had been through many short-lived relationships. But at the time of her murder, she wasn't dating anyone. So who's Caitlin dating? At the time she was dating nobody. Okay. Was she seeing somebody before? Not that I knew. I knew there was somebody named Kevin at the time. Okay. If I were to say that, give me somebody that would want to hurt her. Who would come to your mind? I would have to say Kevin. Why would you say Kevin? From what she was telling me before that she has put hands on her. During the initial round of interviews, one named Surface repeatedly. Kevin Whitmer. It quickly became clear that there had been some recent tension or drama between him and Caitlin. I know she was getting threats from Kevin Allen Whitmer. She sent you about the guy who paid her. Yeah. Who's this Whitmer? Apparently he hit her on the Friday. She sent him a message saying, hey, you hit me and so like that. Then other people started putting on where she put on the Facebook public. Yeah, right. Probably that all these other people started commenting on it. What was about it? What that was about? No, I have no clue. Rumors started to swirl after a Facebook post and a string of comments beneath it suggested that Kevin Whitmer had recently gotten violent with Caitlin. But before investigators had a chance to find Kevin, he contacted them and voluntarily came to the police station for an interview. How did you win it? She is a friend of my old buddies. How long have you been on it? Actually, knowing her for probably maybe three weeks. When's the first time you guys started talking or hanging out or whatever? Actually talking. It would have been roughly three weeks ago. That's just conversation. But when did you guys start hanging out, hanging out, dating or what? I think the first time we hung out was like a week and a half ago. What did you guys do? Just drove around. What are you guys hanging out with friends? Yeah, very sick friends. Really? Were you then really looking into engaging in a relationship with her? She wanted to, but she's 17. I'm 21. That's my thing. What she wanted to know is like, I'm cool with friends, but that's as far as it's going to go. She tried kissing me. I mean, we kissed. That's about it. That's the end of it. 21-year-old Kevin told investigators he had only known Caitlin for a short while. And it's just that he had no interest in a romantic relationship with her. According to him, it was Caitlin who had wanted something more. And then we finally got to hang out Thursday and then she stayed the night with me. We guys watched movies where you wouldn't sit there on Facebook and talking. Did she stay the night that night? Okay. Anything going on that night? Did we just cuddle? No, we just cuddle. Okay. Now here's the deal. We've already talked about this 17-21. Right. No, literally. So, I just want to make sure that you're telling me this is... Please. I did talk to her about having sex. And she told me that she's had sex with multiple people. And I'm like, no, it's not going to happen. So we just cuddle. And then we got up next morning. We laid in bed until probably, like I said, 12, 30, 1 o'clock. And then I took her home and dropped her off. Kevin explained he was put off by Caitlin's age and her alleged promiscuity. So he chose not to sleep with her or pursue a relationship. He also claimed the last time he saw her was three days before the murder, when he dropped her off at home. The following day, he received a strange and threatening phone call. A 689 number called me and was like, are you getting wet? I was like, who is this? And he's like, don't worry about it. Just know that you're a woman, and if you don't have a woman, you can beat on me. So I called Caitlin and I was like, what the hell is going on? And she's like, you know, you hit me twice and gave me two bloody noses. And I was like, the fuck ever, I don't put my hands on women. She's like, you know what you did? And fuck off or whatever. And she hung up on me. So I made a status after that and put it on Facebook. I have all the screenshots of it, all the comments up to it too last night, whenever I went to sleep. I looked up the s'more in like 30 plus people were coming on it, so I just went and deleted it. According to Kevin, Caitlin had told someone he hit her. This was an allegation that he firmly denied. With her claiming that he punched her in the face and gave real bloody nose and all that, why do you think that she would say that? Where does she get out of it? Attention. I don't know. Honestly. With this new information, investigators were faced with two possibilities, neither of which was easy to prove. And Caitlin upset over being rejected at falsely accused Kevin of violence, or Kevin was lying to cover up something far more sinister. Without evidence, both scenarios seemed frustratingly out of reach. And this was just the beginning. As the investigation unfolded, detectives encountered a growing list of unusual suspects, each one adding new layers of confusion. More often than not, interviews ended with more questions than answers. And investigators were left asking the one question that continued to haunt them. Who killed? Caitlin Root. Skincare experts and dermatologists have often touted the benefits of indoor humidity as essential for healthy, glowing skin. But did you know dry air can start to harm your skin in as little as 30 minutes? For years, many people have relied on humidifiers for better skin, sleep in overall wellness, but traditional models, bulky, mold prone, and difficult to maintain. This where canopy humidifier comes in. Recommended by leading dermatologists, canopy is a completely reimagined humidifier designed to elevate any space, offering the ultimate in skin care and wellness benefits. Canopies clean moisture, combats dryness, dullness, and fine lines while strengthening the skin's barrier and boosting the effectiveness of topical skin care products. With its sleek design, canopy is the cleanest and easiest humidifier on the market. With its unique technology, cleaning is as easy as popping it in the dishwasher. To getcannabee.co, to save $25 on your canopy humidifier purchase today, with Canopies filter subscription. Even better, use code podcast to check out to save an additional 10% off your canopy purchase. Your skin will thank you. On October 16, 2016, 17-year-old Caitlin Rooot was found murdered in Krug Park. She had been stabbed, her throat slit, her naked body left in plain sight. With no witnesses and a few leads, investigators struggled to piece together why she was there, who she was with and what went so horribly wrong. Suspissions swirled around a young man named Kevin Whitmer. But nothing could be proven. And the deeper investigators dug, the stranger, the case became. From their conversations with Kevin, investigators learned about another young man who was reportedly eager and maybe even desperate to start a romantic relationship with Caitlin. Police were already familiar with the name Adam Brown. He was one of Caitlin's closest friends. They'd known each other for years and were often seen together. To those who knew them, the dynamic was clear. Adam wanted something more, but Caitlin had firmly placed him in the friend zone. Adam can always have a thing for it just never worked out. Yeah, that's the way I would interpret it, just being by actions. It was only me being by his actions. He was always trying to impress her in somewhere, shapeable. She thought of him as a brother. Nothing more. But he wanted more. He wanted more. He was jealous of the attention the other young man got from her. If he was, he never lay. And technically, he's the last person we really know was seen with her, right? By his own admission. Right. After gathering some background information on Adam's relationship with Caitlin, investigators brought him in for questioning. Well, I believe it was like 15th Saturday. So I messaged Caitlin and I asked her if she wanted to hang out for a little bit. I can come by because she was where she was named. It was like, right at the street from me. She said, over on the other porch at Grand Paul's, we were just talking and talking and talking, catching up. And we were just sitting there and she jumped off the porch and was like, I gotta go meet the Amanda and I'm like Amanda, who? And she said Amanda makes and I might, I wouldn't just stay home and sleep. Don't you get hurt? Adam freely admitted he was with Caitlin on the front porch of her home the night she was murdered and that he was the last person to see her alive. He claimed that during their final moments together, Caitlin abruptly decided to leave and meet up with someone else. Poor Adam. Adam said he tried to warn her not to go, but she ignored his advice. She listened, she went down to the corner on 15th and all of, gotten to the car that I couldn't even actually recognize. It looked like an SUV, an issue, kind of a look at thing and it was less hurt for her. Adam told investigators that Caitlin stepped off her front porch, walked down the road and climbed into a mysterious black SUV. If you've heard enough, Sword and Scale, you know that this kind of story immediately raises some red flags. Investigators wondered why someone would pick her up down the street instead of at her house. What were they trying to avoid or hide? Did this even really happen? Or was it just a whole story that Adam was making up just to cover his tracks? So you guys just all sit in there chatting on the front porch? So when does taking a leap? She left about like, in between like 10, 30 and 11. So what, how did she, how did she, how did she start getting how she, how did she up the leaves? She was messaging Amanda on Facebook and uh, what's the relationship between her and Amanda? As far as I know, there's friends. And that's Amanda, Max. Yeah. Okay. Have they ever any trouble with each other before or? No, but I've had my doubts about Amanda and I don't really trust her. What do you mean, Patrick? I don't think it. I mean to me, she's just not the right kind of, the right kind of people were really hanging out with personal and picking things that had me hurt when we just don't click. Don't be long-winded. Yeah. So basically, yeah, they were texting on Facebook. That's whenever she was like, I gotta walk, they're having you down here. She's about to pull up and everything. I'm like, you should not go. You should not go. Did she say what you didn't go do? Yeah, she said that they were going to go sit at Hyde Park and they were going to basically be hanging out and everything else. Just basically doing girl stuff. I'm identified the person who picked up Caitlyn as someone named Amanda Mix. This was a name that caught investigators' soft guard. Until this moment, no one else had mentioned her in connection with this case. So actually, when Caitlyn left, you were the only one I truly see her leave. Pretty much, I've seen on the porch, on the porch. Investigators were clearly wary of Adam. There was something a little shady about him. The question both is account of that night and how he characterized his relationship with Caitlyn. There was a brief moment where we thought we had her and you two together. But no, I'm sorry, I'm not going to take my best friend for 12 years. So basically, I was just... So how long did you guys date? Or how long did I not work out? We've been together for about six hours total. Oh really? You guys ever have sex? No. Do you have any idea who might have done something to her? I mean, I can only pretty much like start where basically the first person I knew about this she was going to be with, this would be Amanda. That's not... That's not the first. All the heck would I get in touch with Amanda? That's a very good question that I haven't been able to get hold of her all day. Despite their doubts about Adam's story, investigators decided to look into Amanda Mix. What they found was intriguing. Amanda, as it turns out, was once Caitlin's best friend. You said that Amanda Mix and her were friends, but they had it falling out and almost recently... And that's the person she was last seen with that time. How do you know that? From everybody, it's told me that she came over to that house at 15 to get Caitlin in the fact. After a long Amanda's name started coming up repeatedly in the investigation. Some even claim that the former best friend of Caitlin's had confessed to murder. The next day, at the candlelighting, my brother came up to me crying. He was like shaking and crying and he said, hey dude, he's like, I'm glad I found you. He's like, I'm scared shitless right now. He's like, she admitted it. Like, mid. He would come down and tell me what was going on. He said they're in Tommy's like, she admitted it. I was like, who admitted it? What? He's like, I'm Amanda. She admitted that she and her and several other people beat that root girl. Did they... You said earlier that they... You referred to them as they had jumped her. I don't know who they are. He just said Amanda and several other people. Eventually, investigators brought Amanda Mix in for questioning. Their situation was a bit different from the other potential suspects. Unlike the rest, Amanda had not come willingly. She was picked up on an unrelated, outstanding warrant. Which you know is always a good sign. Do you know a girl by name of Caitlin Root? Yes. How do you know her? Do I have to say all this? Well, I'm just asking questions. I'm just curious. How do you know her? Well, she's your best friend. Oh, she's your best friend? Well, it's a tippy. I don't know what I'm like. I don't know. Maybe anyone. What happened? Between you two. I mean... You guys aren't friends anymore. I used to love someone more. I'm like, we didn't beat like, we just went our separate ways. I don't have to. I don't have to. I don't have to. Amanda told investigators there was no bad blood between her and Caitlin. They had simply grown apart over time. Which is why they were no longer as close as they once were. You never had a falling out in this Caitlin and anything a while back while you go. I mean, because I've got friends that I've grown up with a long time ago. Right, right, right. But was there anything that ever happened between you two that you just lost a track of each other? I lost off-friends. Because I don't want anyone around you. Are you annoying, mad or best off the Caitlin? No. Okay. What's the answer to this? I'm asking about Caitlin. Okay, so why is... I mean... Why? Well, she's missing. What? She's missing. Yeah. When did you go missing? The other day, I'm not quite sure what day... What's the last time you saw her? Well, I just... I mean, I went to a... A fuck. I don't know what day it was like some day last week. I talked with Caitlin. Why are you so upset? Because I... I love Caitlin. Really? Did what happen? I don't know anything. I haven't... The last time I seen her... We're dead. When we had the ride. Amanda appeared genuinely unaware that Caitlin was dead. She told investigators the last time she saw her... ...was more than a week before the murder. According to Amanda, she and her boyfriend were walking past Caitlin's house... ...when they spotted her sitting on the front porch. Amanda asked if anyone inside could give them a ride home... ...and Caitlin found someone willing to help. Since that day, Amanda had not seen her heard from Caitlin. Or so she claimed. Do you have a Facebooker or a doctor? We have. Yeah. I'm not recently now. Not recently. It hasn't been recently at all. We don't really talk about Facebook. Somebody said that you guys talk for the day on Facebook. Is that not true? That's not true. I haven't talked to Caitlin on Facebook. Or Messenger or something like that. Like that. When Facebook accounts to you. Amanda, Amanda. I might just feel like there's something you're just on quite time. Because I may not promise or I'm not. Keeping anything from you. Amanda also claimed she had not communicated with Caitlin through texts or social media... ...and quite some time. If true, that directly contradicted Adam Brown's statement. He had told police that Caitlin was messaging Amanda the very night she was killed. We almost talked to somebody who said that you were with her Saturday night. Are you serious? Yeah. Okay, I wasn't all that good. I got it, ain't I? There's no big deal. Why something would lie and say that you were with her on Saturday. Exactly. And I'm saying let's say they want to get somebody else in trouble. I can get a serious trouble. What's going on? What's going on? Whatever the situation is. I don't know what's going on. I'm saying it. So you mean telling me you didn't know that Caitlin's been missing? No. I didn't know. I didn't know. So what would you say... I said that somebody saw you leaving with her about 10 o'clock Saturday night. I have been laughing because it's not true. 10 o'clock then I ended up in my room. Amanda insisted she was home the night of the murder. And she was adamant about it. She even claimed she could back it up. At the time Amanda was living in a group home and she told investigators that the house manager could confirm her whereabouts. That's hilarious, didn't it? It pissing me off. But if we call Tina right now we can get the Zalberghives. I don't know if you call her. We'll get around to calling her. But I try to catch a ball of this bullshit. Try to catch what? I catch a ball of this shit because I didn't leave with her at 10 o'clock. So you're going to try to... I don't know. I don't know. It's a bullshit. That's why we're like you to call her now. So... I'll see if I get somebody to call Tina. Yeah. Exactly. It's still you can tell you I was there Saturday night. Amanda urged investigators to contact her house manager to confirm her alibi. And she grew increasingly impatient as the questioning continued. I have not talked to Caitlin. I tried repeating myself. No, I wouldn't know the whole story. That's what I would know. That's exactly what I would know. I was telling you guys what the fuck I did Saturday night. 10 o'clock, can you? Well, I'm telling you that people are telling me you the last person that... Well, that's hilarious. Call Tina, please. 8167. We're working on that. When? Because I'm going to hear her tell you out. You know, this sounds like one of the mystery fucking TV shows. I know I'm reading. I know I'm reading. It does? No, no. So, just call Tina, please. Give us your favorite app. I... That's ridiculous. If you'll just call you, I'll know the fucking truth. Here's the thing. I'm not telling you what I got to you. Go ahead. Now, let's get to one of those things. It's one of those things where you can get the fucking proof right now. This is not what makes sense. You can go get my boyfriend and he'll tell you the same exact shit. I don't know why you're here. Because... I don't really think I'm telling you something. I don't really fucking talk to Kayla anymore. Who said anything happened next month? Okay, she's missing. Well, so something obviously had happened. Maybe she can't say anything. Maybe totally. What? Kaila, not what I can't say. I don't know. How do you know that? I've been friends with her for a while. So... But I know... Okay, just because... I know I'm not... No, I'm not. I'm not a stupid, I'm not a dumb. I know I'm dumb. I don't want to talk. I'm not talking. I'm going to be silent. I just hold down. That's all. Amanda took a firm stance with investigators and ultimately chose to remain silent, which is, of course, her right. When they followed up with her house manager, the story she gave them seemed to check out. Amanda had signed in early that evening, but the alibi wasn't airtight. Nothing would have prevented her from slipping out unnoticed later that night. Once again, investigators were faced with two conflicting stories. Either Adam Brown had lied about Caitlin messaging and leaving with Amanda Mix, or Amanda was lying about her whereabouts on the night of the murder. As a good time to test your slewving abilities, and I ask you, who do you think was responsible out of these two? I wonder if you'll get it right, because what came next was a revelation that no one expected. Neither of them had lied. Yeah, how about that? The person who would actually misled the investigators and did not tell the truth was the most unlikely person of all. The victim. Root. Root. Root. The Granger offers millions of products and fast, dependable delivery, so you can keep your facility stocked, safe, and running smoothly. Call 1-800-Granger, click ranger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. In October of 2016, homicide investigators in St. Joseph, Missouri were deep into the investigation of 17-year-old Caitlin Root's brutal murder. Caitlin's body had been found in Crag Park, with a few clues to follow. Investigators chased down leads, questioned family and friends, and attempted to unravel conflicting stories, but nothing was adding up. Then came a stunning theory. Perhaps the person misleading them wasn't a suspect. Perhaps it was Caitlin herself. You see, Caitlin's close friend Adam Brown told investigators that the last time he saw her, she'd said that she was going to meet up with Amanda Mix. Maybe she told him the truth, or maybe it was a lie. It was entirely possible that Caitlin had plans with someone else that night and just didn't want anyone to know. With answers still elusive, investigators returned to the crime scene and expanded their search of the area. This decision led to a crucial breakthrough. While the initial sweep had uncovered only broken fragments of Caitlin's cell phone, the extended search turned up even more pieces. Forensic specialists managed to reassemble the phone, giving detectives access to Caitlin's texts and social media. This was a game-tanger. The recovered messages revealed that Caitlin had been planning to meet someone named Amanda that night, but not Amanda Mix. It was another teenager who had gone to high school with Caitlin. Her name was Amanda Bennett. These messages revealed that Amanda Bennett had invited Caitlin to hang out with her and her boyfriend, and had even told her not to tell anyone who she was with. Armed with this discovery, investigators quietly surveilled Amanda Bennett and her boyfriend for several days before making their move. Both were arrested. Amanda's mom was also brought in for questioning. So, Amanda and Sebastian both live with you? Correct. And how long have you been living with you? He's been there, at least over a year. Where's Amanda working at right now? She worked at Norfolk Pizza Hut with me. And how about Sebastian or she worked at? The McDonald's down on the interstate. What do they do for fun besides at the house? What kind of things do they do? I don't really do much. That's what I'm saying. I'm like, I said, I have internet and Netflix and all that, so they've heard me just stay in their room and watch TV or play video games. They're going to learn to hang out? Not really. No. And whenever I come to the house, hang out? And that's been a lot of Amanda's problems. She don't have very many friends. So she doesn't have any friends. And she'll tell you that. She doesn't hang out with anybody. Investigators learn that 17-year-old Amanda Bennett and her 18-year-old boyfriend, Sebastian Dowell, were living with Amanda's mom. The couple was reclusive with no-known friends or social connections. What they did have was a newborn son, who was just a few months old. The soft-coeing heard in the background of this interview belongs to their baby. I don't keep trying to see Sebastian on this lady because I can care less about Sebastian. What's it all about? Well, he's lazy pretty much. There's always excuse why he can't get up and get a word or, you know, he doesn't want to do any tours around the house. He's just like, good at that. She's usually up with the baby all night. She's been trying to go to school and then working and he does nothing. And it makes me mad. And I was to the point I had been talking to my son. I said, you know, she's been talking about moving out with them. And if that's the case, I'm well given a term and get custody of Sila, because... He's not taking her from South Island. Exactly. The baby from what? Sounds. And he also has a two-year-old little girl. And I know that he doesn't ever see her two more-page-child support. Doesn't do anything for her. Amanda's mom shared some background with investigators about her daughter and Sebastian. She confirmed that both were high school dropouts with Amanda working at Pizza Hut and Sebastian at McDonald's. What a pair. She also admitted she wasn't fond of Sebastian, describing him as a lazy, inattentive, and irresponsible father. When asked about the night Caitlin Rute was murdered, she recalled that Amanda and Sebastian had gone out, supposedly to see a movie. They returned home very late. And you worked together, so you're together all day until 9 p.m. So when you come home, 9 p.m. do she ride home with you? Yes. Okay, so... We came home, Sebastian was home with the baby. And I'm going to look on my phone because I want to say that that was the night they went to the movies. As far as I know, they went to the movies is what I was told. Okay, and they take your car. Yes. And what time do you think they text you to tell you that they're going over to Jeremy? Well, they didn't actually text me, she told me that it's where they were going. I text her and asked her, I said, where are you guys at? Because I don't think the movie lasts no three hours. So it was like 10... I'm on 12.30. She said, oh, we came over to Jeremy's house. After their conversation with Amanda's mom, investigators sat down with Amanda herself, who appeared remarkably unfazed by the situation, showing little concern or emotion as the questioning started. You're 17. Okay, well today... Today. Today. What was the last grade level in school you completed? I finished sophomore year. Okay, and you working anywhere? Pete's at it, Northville. Any idea why you're here? Mm-hmm. I'll be honest, I find it hard to believe you don't know why you're here. We have a lot of information. We have a lot of evidence. And I know you know why you're here. You know, I don't believe that your involvement is done on your own. I know that, you know, somebody else was there and we don't think you're a bad person, not at all. When do I ask for a lawyer? You can ask for a lawyer anytime you want, if that's what you want to do. Well, do you guys think I did something so I think you did? What do you think we think you did? I don't know. And then I would think you would want to find out what... Well, that was a tell me. What do you think I do? Amanda claims she had no idea what was going on and it quickly became clear that a confession wasn't coming anytime soon. Shifting tactics and investigators eased into a gentler line of questioning, focusing instead on her relationship with Sebastian. Does he stay anywhere else now even occasionally? Every night at you? Got some on that, all right? Make sure he's for you supposed to be. Yep. He's pretty. You gotta keep a lock on that. He's pretty? Yeah, you gotta keep a lock on that. Do you guys ever go out separate? Do you guys ever do separate things? I think you go, he goes where he goes, you go, huh? Except for work, of course. Yeah. I'm usually at his work too, but at least after when I work... Who do you guys run around with? Who do you guys do stuff with other than when you guys go do something? Don't have friends. You don't have friends. You don't help them? You guys don't run around with anybody. You don't hang out with anybody. It's just you two. We're always home. Love exciting and then. No, we just don't have friends. We don't have any. Sebastian didn't have any friends? No, I don't let him. Amanda was pretty open about her relationship with Sebastian and admitted to being a very controlling presence in his life. Let's put it that way. I shaved his legs. What? He let you shave his legs. Like with a razor shave? Like all the way up top, all the way down. Why is that? I wanted to get rid of his masculinity. Okay, now you have to explain that one to me. You got me, Chris. Because he thinks he's older. Well, you do too, apparently. Investigators also questioned Amanda about her religious beliefs, particularly her views on the devil. Their curiosity stemmed from a search of her bedroom where they had found books related to Satanism. In her basement, they also found a journal penned by Amanda that was full of bizarre writings about demons, sacrificing souls, and controlling fire with one's mind about that. What do you think about the devil? Do you think the devil exists? I don't know. Have you ever looked into other forms of religion? Have you ever considered other forms of religion? I was bare minimum with any of that or any satanic stuff, anything like that. So you have faith in God, but you've questioned it. Well, I've grown up believing that, like ever since I was born, I was in a church environment. After gaining more insight into Amanda, her relationship with Sebastian and her beliefs, investigators turned to a crucial question. Where was she in Sebastian on the night of October 15, 2016? The night Caitlin Rute was murdered. We were going to go to the movies, because I got to, for like, free tickets. You know how they had to just free tickets. But we watched The Girl in the Train. You didn't see that? It's not good. No. Most scary movies nowadays are good. I see you stayed for the whole movie. How'd the movie end? Weird. Just weird. It was all like a mystery about murder. Who didn't murder? Oh, the movie, I mean, it says it. You won't bring it in, don't you? It was a boring movie. Yeah, you want to do it to that? Then we went to a special guest house. Amanda told investigators that she and Sebastian had gone to see the movie The Girl on the Train that night. But when asked about the plot, she couldn't recall a single detail. Pro tip. If you're going to use a movie as an alibi, make sure you've actually seen it. Also, that movie was fantastic. So if you say it was boring, then you're either lying or you're extremely unintelligent. Or most likely both. Amanda went on to say that after the movie, the two of them headed to Sebastian's dad's house and spent a few hours there. But Amanda didn't know that investigators had already done their homework. You see, this is the kind of person that doesn't do homework. So she assumes no one else does, either. The police had reviewed surveillance footage from the theater and neither Amanda nor Sebastian appeared in any of it. Her story was obviously a lie. Why would you tell me that you were at the movies when you were at the movies? We were at the movies. At the late movie, we started at 10-10 of Girl on the Train. Then why? I mean, are you guys like invisible or something? I mean, why won't you be on the video? You're not there. Well, you got to be there. If you were there, you had to go up to the window and get exchanged your passes for tickets. Neither one of you were on video getting the tickets. They've got the videos on thumb drives. They're going to bring it back here. And you can't be there if you're not there. All the cameras don't lie. So tell me why you wouldn't be on video. No, no, no. I don't suggest it's because you weren't there. And I would suggest you were somewhere else and you don't want to tell me about that. We were at the movies. What would you say if we had Sebastian on video somewhere else? I'd say you were a liar. Are you afraid to tell us the truth? No, I went to the movie. Other than the movie, are you afraid to tell us the truth? Are you afraid us to know everything that happened Saturday night? I told you everything that happened. In addition to the theater footage, police had surveillance from another location that placed Sebastian across town, alarmingly close to Krug Park. A street camera captured him sitting in the passenger seat of Amanda's mom's car. Presumably, Amanda was behind the wheel. So how do we explain that? How do we explain your car with Sebastian in it, being at a completely different location? The time the movie was going on. Are you scared right now? I would be. Because you're not telling us the truth. I would be looking for a chance to help yourself and stop lying. I mean, if you think I did something wrong, either way I'm going down. Well, you can... No, that's not true. If you didn't do it, you wouldn't have anything to worry about. You wouldn't need to be scared right now. I'm not scared. You should be. Because I know you did it. And I know... See, you think I did it? No, I know. I understand. It's not a matter. Don't get upset. I'm talking to you. I mean, person-to-person being real. I told you I would not lie to you. I will not tell you that I can prove something that I can't prove. You know, this is not our first rodeo. We've had a team... I mean, seven homicides in St. Joe's, within the past year. At least, that you found a body for. Right? It's probably more. Yes, sir? Who said anything about a homicide? Google. But I mean, we didn't say anything about a homicide. Interestingly, the first mention of murder during this interview didn't come from investigators. It came from Amanda... herself. Oops. I guess you're not the criminal mastermind you thought you were. Ain't that right, Amanda? She says this is a homicide we're talking about. Is there something we need to know about a homicide? Well, you're investigating the homicide. We're investigating hundreds of crimes. Well, that's the only one in the news. So I'm assuming. So what do you know about the homicide then? Since you're talking about it, what do you know about it? The stuff in the news. For a while, Amanda stuck to her flimsy story about going in the movies on the night of the murder, even though it had already been disproven. So investigators decided to leave her alone in the interrogation room and shift their focus to her boyfriend. 18-year-old Sebastian Dowell. Saturday, did you work last Saturday at week go today? No, it's not good. I'm pretty sure it was off of that day. Okay. So did you guys do anything, Saturday? No, no, wait a second. Say it on the whole time? Yeah, please. I'm going to do it. It's Saturday, guys. Don't see none of those days light. No. Just watch TV and watch Netflix. For investigators, it was clear that Amanda and Sebastian hadn't coordinated their story very well. Amanda said they were going to a movie on the night of the murder while Sebastian insisted they had stayed home the entire time. So who said that Dowell and hearing one in the house probably heard? There's nothing wrong with the bed. Yeah, we're at the same place. She jealous one. She does get that one. Yeah. Like, you might be really telling about that. Well, she was like, may I fish it if she thinks I did something wrong. She'll yell. So what sort of violent things you did were done over jealous? She, uh, fractured my ribs. I think she tried to stab me at one point. Wow. How did she break your ribs? Oh, she did. She had a punch thing. I didn't try to stab you. Yeah. That's scary, you know? Yeah, but she has always been controlling. I have to ask if I can look at how I'm sorry for to ask her anything. I can't find my choice. Sebastian confirmed the controlling nature of his relationship with Amanda and added a disturbing layer. He claimed Amanda's dominance over him was enforced through violence, alleging that she had once fractured his ribs and even tried to stab him. While the rest of the interview offered deeper insight into their toxic and abusive relationship, much of the audio was difficult to make out. With Sebastian muttering barely above a whisper, like a little kid. Still, he revealed that both he and Amanda were deeply involved in Satanism and considered themselves devoted followers. As for Caitlin Rute, Sebastian claimed he barely knew her. According to him, the only time they met was on the day his son was born when Caitlin visited Amanda in the hospital and get this started flirting with him. Right there, right in the hospital, right in front of Amanda. Well, I met him in front of Amanda. Yeah. Again, I was there, but she'd been disrespectful. Like, in her face, like, throwing it into Amanda's face that she's... It was kind of disrespectful, I think. Yes, what I'm kind of missing here is she and not only friends, but she's still at the hospital and starts hitting on the father of the child. Now, be why I'm innocent. I don't know what to do. According to Sebastian, during the hospital visit, Caitlin implied that Amanda's newborn son wasn't his, but rather a child of Amanda's ex-boyfriend. This suggestion infuriated Amanda. Hose Mad, as they say. Finally, after two hours of questioning, Sebastian requested a lawyer bringing the interview to a close. Investigators then shifted their attention back to Amanda, returning to the interrogation room where she'd been waiting. What happens at the homicide? No, no. She do. Well, you know. You've seen. You saw, too, with your own eyes. And at your hands. Yes, you did, honey. Your phone tells a different story or message. And if you want to sit and continue to lie and say, no, no, no. And when you go to court and we prove this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this that we have. And you sit there and say, I don't know anything. Showing no remorse. Say you didn't do it. And the reason is gone. I mean, we know what it is. No, it's not a threat. No, it's not a threat. No, it's not a threat. You said you weren't going to do that. No, you get convicted, honey. I'm going away forever. Don't do anything to help yourself to explain. Sirens have been raised by somebody else. To explain why this happened. Don't you think that everybody deserves at least no why? Sure. Didn't tell us why. Why what? Why you guys killed this girl. We didn't kill anyone. That's not true. And you know it. This time, investigators adopted a much tougher approach with Amanda. And it quickly revealed the very cold and callous side of her personality. There's only two people that were there. You and Sebastian. So you're telling me he did it all. He didn't do anything. Did he did then? A bear? You know what I'm beginning to think? What I'm beginning to think is you are a very cold, hard person that you can set here and have no emotion and make fun of you to do all this stuff. The same thing she was killed by a bear. I don't know what she was killed by. Oh, you know exactly what she was killed by. But you said here and make light of it. Like it's no big deal taking the human mind. You don't physically scare me. But it's just spooky. That you just have no emotion about it. Possibly recognizing that they were dealing with someone who was deeply detached and sociopathic. Investigators abandoned any pretense of gentleness and doubled down on their hard-line approach with Amanda. You killed her. I don't know. You're a liar. You like the fact that you killed Caitlin Routin. You can't wait to do it again. You're a killer. And you like that. You don't care. Less than a week ago you killed somebody. And you don't care. You probably went home and had a great time. Oh, wasn't that fun? Wasn't that great? I can't wait to do again. Maybe we should do a designer. You're sick. You're sick. I've never killed anyone. Neither of I. You're a liar. You're a liar. You watched her die. And you got off on it. What was it like? Were you looking in her eyes the whole time and she's dying? Did she say anything to you? Do you replay it when you close your eyes at night? You and Sebastian are killers and you like it. You like to be known as the people who kill people. You're getting off on the fact that you know that you guys killed somebody together and you'll kill again because you're killers. You probably rubbed her blood all over your body and probably... I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I probably had some weird sex with her. Dance to a circle? Yeah. Showing? You did? So what did you say? What happened? It's okay. It's okay. Get it off your chest. Then I'm doing anything. You're a liar. You danced around in her blood. Yeah, me! Look at me! Here's to you, Satan. Here's to you. My first sacrifice. Or is it my first sacrifice to you? Despite their best efforts, investigators did not get a confession from Amanda. And eventually they had to call it quits. Amanda remained in the interrogation room waiting to be booked for murder. While she sat there, a different officer kept her company and the two engaged in a surprisingly casual conversation about favorite TV shows and other everyday topics. During the course of that seemingly harmless chat, Amanda revealed some unsettling things about herself. Nothing really bothers me because I've interacted with the supernatural. I've seen demons. So nothing really scares me anymore. You ever do anything like the ghost hunting kind of stuff before? I have an interest in that. I like to do. You're going to think I'm crazy, but I've been to hell before. So once you cross over that border, you can see everything from a spirit. From a spiritual point of view, well, if they want you to see them. Hell is way more complex than what everyone says. Like there's no fire for one. It's not hot. It's normal. And there's like, it's kind of like an office building. There's different sections and each demon has like a secretary who goes out and collects like dead sin souls from people. It's like corridors like that. The, the, the, the, you get to like design it however you want like the secretary for all my dear has room exactly like this. It's great. That's it. As Amanda continued to ramble on about her bizarre and quite frankly retarded beliefs, something unexpected was unfolding in the other interrogation room. 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That's loveindus.com promo code SOARD for 21% off. Alright, let's continue. If you work in university maintenance, Granger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip-off. And Granger is your trusted partner offering the products you need all in one place from HVAC and plumbing supplies to lighting and more and all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock. So your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-GRanger-visitgranger.com or just out by Granger for the ones who get it done. On October 2016, teenagers abandoned Bennett and Sebastian Dowell were arrested for the brutal murder of Caitlin Root. At first, both denied any involvement, but investigators knew it was only a matter of time before one of them cracked. They were right. During a second interview, Sebastian finally began to open up, revealing not just pieces of the truth, but also the disturbing details about his beliefs, about himself. In case Sebastian's low-muttered voice is hard to make out, he told investigators that he considered it to be a good idea. In case Sebastian's low-muttered voice is hard to make out, he told investigators that he considered himself a sociopath and claimed to worship Hades, the Greek god of the underworld. I have my own religion, he says matter of factly. To be clear, Amanda and Sebastian weren't dark mystics or vessels of some supernatural evil. They didn't have their own religion, as he says. What they did have was way too much time on their hands and a lack of cognitive skills. They were delusional and deeply out of touch with reality. They fancy themselves connected to something sinister. But that's what losers do. They spend their lazy asses online building up delusions of grandeur to feed and protect their own egos from coming to the realization that they are utterly useless trash, reaching off the good will of others and contributing absolutely nothing to society other than misery and death. In truth, they were nothing but just a couple of high school dropouts working part-time fast food jobs, living in a cluttered bedroom in Amanda's mom's house, barely managing to care for their newborn son, and they were responsible for the murder of an innocent 17-year-old girl. That's it, that's the end result of too much coddling, too much sheltering, and no actual parenting. Where the fuck is the father? Where are the rules? Where's the goddamn discipline? If you're an adult with a child, still living at your mom's house because that's all you can afford, Jesus Christ, where's the fucking shame? As this interview continued, Sebastian revealed another bizarre detail about himself. He claimed to have a second personality of all names, Drake, who would sometimes take control of Sebastian's body, he said. So here we go with all that bullshit. And when you're Drake, do you feel, I mean, can you, like, the Sebastian, look back on a third person of you and see Drake talking and doing for his times? Sometimes it's just like, I'm like, my heart's in its over, and then sometimes it's just watching what's happening. After setting the stage with claims of memory loss and blame for his alter ego, Sebastian started recounting his version of what happened on the night Caitlin Rue was murdered. You're on her head? No, she was on her head. So then maybe a man to hit her would something to knock her down or? And so this was part of the satanic part that she had kind of all-frightened of you. Because of that she pretty much says what doing a sacrifice is. That's not something to do. As expected, Sebastian claimed he couldn't remember much about the murder because Drake had taken over his body. Still, he told investigators that Amanda had struck Caitlin over the head, and once she was unconscious, the two of them cut off her clothes and carried out what he described as a satanic human sacrifice, stabbing her multiple times and slitting her throat. Sebastian emphasized that Amanda was the mastermind behind all of this. According to him, she'd planned the entire thing and taken the lead. While he didn't deny participating, he painted himself as a passive accomplice. Despite the outlandish claims of memory loss and a second personality, investigators had what they needed, a confession, and it wouldn't be the only one. Just two days later, Amanda requested another meeting with investigators. I was just messaging people to see if anyone wanted to hang out because I never do my message to a girl named Haley Moonmean. Another girl named Haley, and a girl named Ali. And I was like, hi, how are you guys? So are you the same age as all these girls? Yeah, I learned when I was 8. During her next interview, Amanda revealed that on the night of the murder, she had sent Facebook messages to several teenage girls, asking if they wanted to hang out with her and her boyfriend, Sebastian. The first to respond was Caitlin Root. Then Caitlin talked to me, I was like, oh, you want to hang out or something? She said, yeah, that'd be cool. I was like, do you smoke? Because I know she hangs around with that crowd, that does. She hangs out with... So we, you mean? Yeah. I told Sebastian that we were going to go to park and he was like, okay, then we left, and then we asked her where she was at. And then she told me, I was like, well, can you just walk up and like the corner of the street so I didn't have to look for your house. Amanda and Sebastian drove to Caitlin's neighborhood. As they got closer, Amanda told Caitlin to meet them at the nearby street corner. After picking them up, the two drove around for a bit, before ending up at Krug Park, where they walked the wooded trails and paused for a while to smoke some weed. Then Sebastian sat down next to me and he said, they wanted her for a sacrifice, they wanted her specifically, and then she fit the criteria and then they wanted her. I told him that we were having a bonus turn, that she was becoming my friend and that they didn't want it to be her. And he said that it had to be her because they wanted her. So we kept walking and then Sebastian, like she was leading to Sebastian, pulled me aside and said, and hit him, he had a stick and said, hit her, you need to hit her. And I'm coloring, I didn't want to, he said, hit her now. So I hit her with a stick and then after I hit her, Sebastian jumped up top of her and started choking her. So she went to the ground after hitting her? No, he ran past me. Sebastian ran past me and now took her to the ground, started puke her. How was he choking her? She was laying right here, he had a hole over her leg that, and was choking her. And the two, the triad thing, they helped me, please stop my camp ring and things that came help me. And I just stood there and didn't know what to do. And then he took a syringe out of his pocket, a syringe, and he stouted her in the neck with it. And I asked him what that was and he said, it was supposed to make her move to sleep, so she made me feel anything so that he could have her come down and hold her pants off. Hold on, I thought that once you'd bend the hell, nothing scared you anymore. Why are you crying Amanda? What happened? As you can tell, Amanda's version of events differed quite a bit from Sebastian's. She was just a reluctant bystander and an unwilling participant in a satanic ritual that Sebastian alone wanted to carry out. It was all him, it wasn't her, she was just an innocent little girl. Female accountability. Am I right? And then he and me and I had been sent to stab her and I told them I couldn't do it. And he said, we have to do it now. So he took it back and he stabbed her in the shed. And then I covered my eyes and ears and I turned around and I turned out to be around. I was standing up. I knew he was stabbed or though, but she was standing up and starting to walk away. And he looked surprised so I don't think it was supposed to happen. He'd light knocked her back down and jumped off top of her light. I'm pumped with him legs and like he was choking her in. After a while he said that she didn't have a pulse anymore. He looked at me and he said he was proud of me. Said he was proud of me for being there. Amanda claimed that after Caitlin was killed, Sebastian smashed her phone and scattered the pieces throughout the park. He then coached Amanda on what to say if they were ever questioned by police. He took this in cart-out and he broke it in half and put it somewhere. He told me to look at it and it told me that if we were caught to tell the police that we were at the movies. Amanda also insisted that any evidence linking her to Satanism or human sacrifice was entirely Sebastian's doing. It's always the man who's to blame. Isn't it? She claimed he'd forced his beliefs onto her and that she had simply gone along without taking any of his beliefs seriously. I know you guys found the books as you were talking to me about saying a suitaining ritual. And the stuff that was written in the books is the stuff that he told me. That was Cameron instead. Yeah, in the black book. Who wrote it? I wrote what he told me. Amanda explained that Sebastian had mentioned performing a human sacrifice more than once. But she never actually believed he would do it. How many times have we heard that shit before? She claimed that when they picked up Caitlin that night, she had no idea what Sebastian intended to do. There's a part that you think that this is going to happen, right? I thought he was a kiddie. I didn't think he was really going to do it. That's why I thought when we got to the end that we were just going to take her who. I thought he was joking. I thought it was just all of the things he had done. How many times have you told him I've got somebody that you can sacrifice? I found it. I found the one we can sacrifice. Because he said that he needed to do it. And I didn't want him to kill a random person if he was going to do it. Amanda's story was riddled with inconsistencies. And after listening to her for several minutes, investigators started pushing back with pointed questions and rebuttals. It was clear she was still lying and trying to protect herself by shifting all of the blame onto Sebastian. I mean, when we talk to him today, you talked about how you control him. You're the domineering person in a relationship. How you keep him locked down because he's pretty. You got a lot of that shit down. So he told me, I don't want him to talk to anybody. Like his phone isn't on. And I read all of his messages because he's had. You tell us. Yeah. I mean, you made it pretty clear that you were the boss in the family. About about some things. But then now we're at where he's controlling you and all of the things I'll honestly, and I'm just being straight with you. I mean, you showed no remorse, no emotion whatsoever. I've laughed a couple times when we were talking about the situations. And now there's just complete mood and demean and change in these crocodile tears stuff. I mean, with your demeanity of the day, I have a hard time believing that all of a sudden now, complete opposite. You were just as cold and soulless as you could possibly be. Amanda's interviews with investigators painted a picture of two entirely different people. In the first, she came off as a cold, arrogant and detached sociopath. But after two days in a jail cell, she returned as a tearful, self-proclaimed victim. You know, female privilege. So why did this is a story we would believe now that he's this evil person and you're just kind of a, I guess you kind of say you're a victim of this. Why did you tell us all this? Because you're so cold. Why did you not care? Why did you laugh? Why did you tell us to prove it? How did you possibly have no, with the emotions you're having today? How could you possibly set there as I'm describing this homicide? It didn't affect me because it wasn't real. I mean, I knew what humans telling me wasn't true. That's how you got out of the house. You said you went in through up. You said you had to cover your eyes, your ears, so you wouldn't hear her scream and you wouldn't see it. But you had no emotion in there. They're not a single tear, not even a sad face. Well, because... He said jail for 48 hours now because you realize that you guys aren't going to get away with this. Because you realize you've been charged and you're going to do the prison. Is that why? No, it's because he told me that no matter what, it would be okay. Obviously, since we're being charged with something... So if you let him get charged, everything would have been okay. Well, I wanted to tell you guys what happened, but I knew it would probably be worse. Amanda's Facebook messages to Caitlin erased any chance of plausible deniability. She lured Caitlin to Crog Park and specifically told her not to reveal who she was meeting, her to keep it a secret under the pretense of hiding her marijuana use. Tragically, Caitlin honored that request when she lied about her plans that night. In return, Amanda repaid her trust by... Slitting Caitlin's throat and stabbing her to death. All in the service of some twisted delusional beliefs in the supernatural. And everything you're saying now is exactly what he said about you. You know, he's saying that you said it had to be Caitlin, that it had to be an unclean soul. Some of us condemned, said that you've been talking about sacrifice for some time, that he's kind of squashed it, but when you said it, he's, you know, said he went along with it. He said he held her down. Why you, you stabbing her and cut her throat? How many of the wounds were from you on Caitlin? Let's be honest now. I hit her with a stick. What about the stabbing or cutting? I didn't stab her. Cut her throat. He said you did it all, was she, he held her down by the shoulders. It's not true. I believe that you were both equally on board with it. I believe that you picked her. I believe that you lured her out just like the text messages show. And I believe that what you need to do is be responsible for your actions. What makes this case even more chilling is the fact that Caitlin wasn't Amanda's only target. He was just the first to respond. By her own admission, she reached out to four different teenage girls that night. Any one of them could have ended up as the victim to this brutal, senseless murder. Caitlin Rooht was just unfortunate and friendly. She accepted Amanda's invitation to hang out, which was her undoing. Investigators would later uncover an even more disturbing detail. Amanda and Sebastian had created a twisted mandate for themselves to kill two people per year. Had they gotten away with Caitlin's murder, there's little doubt they would have struck again. I'd be curious to know what your feelings are on these other three girls. If maybe all four of these girls really didn't really care that much for the first person to live and went with, it would have been a person that she's just a weapon left. Following Amanda's confession, which was filled with contradictions and obvious lies, investigators sat down with Sebastian one last time to confront him with what she had said. He denied most of it, falling back on memory lapses, and claiming he couldn't recall details. It's funny how Amnesia hits after you do something really bad. Much like Amanda, this follow-up interview revealed a drastically different version of Sebastian. The cold, stoic follower of Hades, Lord of the Underworld, had vanished. He was replaced by a frightened, trembling young man who looked nothing like the supernatural villain he claimed to be. You've seen perfectly fine. You didn't seem like you've had these, you know, kind of now with the shakes and the haves and the different cold. It doesn't seem, even it seems like more you're acting more than anything right now. I know that's nerves and you don't want to become off as this terrible ham or whatnot, you know. I don't think you guys got caught up in a kind of romantic notion that this was something neat and cool. Now with the realism setting on this, really not so romantic, it's not so neat. It's not the Twilight Saga, you know, it's real life. And it's affected both you guys and your families in Caitlin and her family. You kind of look in front of you in a sense of trying to bury yourself behind this persona. I think you got wrapped up in this shit, mentally, physically, emotionally. And then when it happened, you know, and now they have to face a realism, I think the realism has hit on, you know. And it's a mess. Indeed, this situation was a disturbing mess. And it was now up to the justice system to sort it all out. On that note, Amanda had an unusual suggestion for how she thought the system should deal with her. You guys have involved in this. Caitlin's dead. What do you think the appropriate touch would be? I mean, honestly, for me, I was there. And I didn't tell anybody anything happened. So, I mean, I should be put in jail for some time. I do have a baby that's two months old and that's a vital part of his life. Because he's going to be crawling soon. He's going to have his first homing without me there already. He's going to start talking and he's growing out of all of his clothes that I got for him and stuff. And I'm never going to get to see him in those. And I'm not going to get to dress him and stuff like that. I don't know. I mean, there's house arrest. Amanda suggested that as a mother, house arrest would be an appropriate form of punishment. Fortunately, a prosecutor in judge saw things a little differently. I hate to keep beating this drum because Jesus Christ talked about female privilege, but yeah, that's what every baby needs. A psychopathic, moronic, devil-worshipping loser of a mom with bad taste in men, abandoning them to go kill innocent young women. Sure, Amanda. In the end, both Amanda and Sebastian accepted plea deals, but not the kind they wanted. They pleaded guilty to second-degree murder and were each sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole. I would leave you with this. Kayla will never have a baby. Her parents will never see her get any older. Her friends will never see her grandparents. She'll never... Yeah, and I know. I've listened to all of the things that people said. Yeah, but this is me saying that. When we compare the things that you're going to miss, that sucks. But... Kayla will never have a baby. But you have a chance of some life in the future. You have a chance of parole. You will have any... as young age you are, chances are you'll probably come out of prison a young woman yet and get to remake the rest of your life for the better. I hope that Caitlin will never have that opportunity. The murder of Caitlin Rute wasn't the result of a sudden outburst or tragic misunderstanding. It was a calculated act, fueled by delusion, detachment, and a warped sense of purpose. Amanda Bennett and Sebastian Dowell had isolated themselves from the world, living in a bubble of dysfunction and feeding off one another's twisted beliefs, seemingly with mom's approval. They spiraled deeper into a fantasy where they weren't just ordinary teenagers, where they weren't just the losers that we all know them to be. But in their own minds, they were powerful, dark figures, fulfilling some higher, unholy calling. What a bunch of fucking losers. In truth, they were nothing of a sort. They were deeply troubled, profounding immature high school dropouts, clinging to half-baked ideas about satanism and sacrifice, desperate to inject meaning into their otherwise aimless lives. Their belief system wasn't just stupid, it was deadly, and Caitlin Rute paid the ultimate price for their stupidity. She was a kindhearted, free spirited, and trusting 17-year-old who wanted to hang out and have a good time. Her life, her future, and her relationships were stolen in a brutal, senseless act committed by two people who confused cruelty or purpose. What's most haunting is how random this all was. Caitlin wasn't targeted because she was part of a love triangle or a bitter betrayal. She was just the first person to say yes to a Facebook message. That's it. That's all it took. One moment of trust, one response to an invitation, and her life, was over. As if making friends isn't already hard enough. These losers go around killing people who want to be their friend. If nothing else, this case is a stark reminder of how dangerous isolation can become, how toxic delusions can fester, and how easily, the innocent can be pulled into someone else's madness. This show was written and produced by Michael Stubil hosted by Yours Truly, Mike Bude. Thank you so much for joining us. If you like the show, check out our website, Sword and Scale.com. You'll find our TV show on there, which is pretty good. You might want to check that out. So, available at only 20 bucks a month, you can cancel it at any time. Thanks for sporting, and stay safe. Hey Mike, my name is Nicole. I have been listening since 2017. Tell everybody about the show. It is my favorite thing. Your storytelling is unmatched, Bude. Listen, not like you need the advice from me, but cruise-hit talkers. You're incredible. Keep doing what you're doing. Love the show. Thank you.