The Tattoo Industry's Dirty Secret: Why This $1 Billion Business Is About to Explode

It's a billion dollar bubble that's ready to burst. You're constantly in a perpetual state of war. I've done tattoos pretty much all over the world. Australia, Romania, Italy. If you don't build your own inner empire, we're talking about integrity, responsibility. I mean, I don't even think you get to really be successful. That's what forges people. Discipline is almost everything. Discipline is godly. I got to interview Pablo Escobar's hitman face to face. And that was... What it is, Brad Lee back again with another episode of Dropping Bombs today in the studio, folks. I got a real treat for you, especially if you like the ink, Steve Santa Cruz from Miami or Empire Inc. out of Miami, Florida. What's happening? Man, first of all, thank you for having me. I appreciate you taking the time to, you know, put this episode out and, you know, follow the Empire Inc. experience. um but yeah man just came out here and uh you have an amazing amazing uh studio amazing vibe so i can't wait to you know talk about my story and and empire inc thank you and guys if you guys don't know empire inc that's one of the premier places to get some some artwork some tats some ink in miami you got multiple locations yeah so um in miami is definitely not an easy place it's a hard it's a city that doesn't forgive you could say that and the tattoo industry itself is you know full of a lot of people who didn't quite really want to go to school rebels, artists, stuff like that so I've been doing this for 16 years and I do have locations in South Beach and downtown, Bayside that's where pretty much we kind of dominate that little trifecta area in Miami. How long have you been there? Well, I've been in South Beach since 2010. How long has Empire Inc. been there? Since 2009. So how does it have such a reputation? So I think it's pretty much with consistency. Since the beginning, when I first opened up Empire Inc. in 2009, I wasn't even tattooing. I was selling the tattoos, designing because I knew how to draw. I opened up right after the 2008 recession. And I took the last little bit of money that I had to open up a tattoo shop. I had a moment where if I didn't do my own thing, I felt like I wasn't really going to make it. So I decided to go into tattoo world because I had some tattoos. I knew how to draw and I put my, I, I have, I've always had these, these high standards for things, for art, for everything that I did. So I decided to open up a tattoo shop. I did it in Boca Raton. It was a hit from the beginning. I think it was just the ability to talk to clients, the ability for me to show them what could be possible and take, you know, from ink to, from, from pen to ink pretty much. And that became the standard of Empire Inc. And that's how over time that's been the culture. It's quality. It's the experience. It's people being treated fairly and us educating them in the process. And doing that over 16 years across multiple locations has been able to give us a pedigree of not only five star over 7000 Google reviews, but over 200000 people that we serve. is that once you service that many people in an industry where you're doing tattoos, you know, reviews are like wildfire and bad ones come and they stay. So you could imagine that there has to be some type of standard followed in order to be able to gather that kind of momentum. 100%. Yeah. That's a lot of freaking people, number one. Yeah. This says that you spent the first 10 years in Colombia. Yeah. Medellin, where? Yeah, so, well, I mean, the first 10 years in Colombia as a kid, as a child. Yeah, but you- I was born in the States. I was born in New York City. Then the first 10 years I grew up was in Colombia, partly Pereira, partly in Nariño, which is a very, like, small place in Colombia, not very known. Did you learn to ink there? I did not. No, no, no. So you were just a kid? I was just a kid. And were you running the streets? I was this this makes it sound like dude you were like from the streets a gang member or something so and when I when I when I left Columbia I was 10 years old back to the states so you weren't no no no I was just a kid gotcha but my family is from Columbia and when I grew up you know my teenage years and my my young 20s in New York I was I was not in a good place what were you doing in New York? So, you know, I, I did, I, I ran the streets. I was, I was what you would probably, it's funny. Cause I go back and I remember, I'm like, I'm like, it's like a conscious gang member. You know what I mean? Never did any drugs, but you know, if, if there was some kind of beef or some kind of issue, I was there, you know, I was a very reactive kid, took shit, very personal. Before I left New York, I probably had maybe 30, 40 street fights. You know what I'm saying? I've been put in the hospital you know the kind of stuff that at the end of the day you look back and you're like I'm still hearing kicking there's got to be a reason man and then you do that 180 switch of like you know going into like a business for yourself and actually creating some success not even the type that you learned from your parents it was just like you know consistency taking responsibility understanding what life is really about and like fully becoming a man which is in my perspective what means to be a man is taking responsibility and always adapting and adding more responsibility as you go because you you can hold it right so those are two different people sure that's how i that's how i started man i i i started in the streets in a gang that's where that's where i learned to lead do you think in the gang in a gang but do you think um do you think like success helps you straighten out i think success is an outcome of doing the right thing consistently over a certain period of time and fact fact i agree with that 100 percent matter of fact well said too that is that is the facts but but i mean like you go from gang member because i used to be a little bit of a hoodlum myself you go from you know running the streets not necessarily in with integrity and ethics in that way but you you might have still had that integrity and ethics just without the morals because again i mean not all gang members are unethical matter of fact some of them are very ethical why are they in a gang it's the culture it's the where they grew up but at the end of the day man they learn leadership skills they learned loyalty. They learned, you know, ethic, work, like work ethic. And then they just somehow apply it into the business world and they find success. But at some point, like you'd never be in a gang now, would you? No, that's a good point. And, and, and no, the short answer is no, but it's, it's, it's funny because a gang is really a culture. It's a group of people coming together, trying to, you know, with a goal in mind, so to speak. And some of them are nefarious and some of them are really bad. And, you know, right now, I think even, you know, politically, you could be in a gang. Your family is your gang. Your team is your gang. You know what I'm saying? So at the end of the day, there's a different perspective to it. But a gang of that nature? No, I would not be, you know, That is something that I am proud to say I've overcome. I learned to, you know, at those moments you're reactive. You're following the crowd. Do you think success helps get people out of, you know, that element? Because when you don't have money and, you know, you grew up that way and it's the neighborhood you grew up in and that's all you're surrounded with, you get sucked into it. Next thing you know, you're doing some stupid shit. But success has a way, I think, success has a way of giving people an option to where they're like, oh, I guess I don't have to do that shit to make money. And so you kind of found success tattooing and building a freaking major brand in the tattoo world. Did it cause you to stop thinking, I don't want to say criminally, but gang related? Yeah. So I would say that, well, first of all, success is really a individual mindset. Like a lot of people think success is different from different perspective, but the financial success in order to maintain financial success, you have to take the mantle of responsibility and really add, you know, there's that as an entrepreneur who's found success, both financially and in business and personally, I can say, if I would have had that prior or if I, maybe I wouldn't be where I'm at, you know, for me, it was this road. And the thing is the responsibility side, because responsibility is what gives you the framework to gain the success. So putting the success to the side and saying, if I would have found more responsibility, I think that in itself would have taken me to that road of success and discipline too. I even learned, you know, to me, discipline is, is almost everything. Discipline is godly. Don't you, don't you think it's a choice though? As far as, uh, some people think you either have it or you don't. And I'm like, you choose it or you don't. I believe that everything's a choice. And I think that anybody can, if they really, really, you know, put 10 toes down and, and, and, and want to, want to become better. That's also why, you know, my internal philosophy is empire is the way, because if you don't build your own inner empire and we're talking about integrity, we're talking about responsibility, we're talking about physically, we're talking about spiritually, we're talking about being able to know how to move in the world. um without doing that i mean i don't even think you get to really be successful so so um i i think everybody has that choice to make and and um yeah i mean it's my life has always been a choice and i'm glad i made the choices that i did you know even the bad ones you know it says here empire is the way podcast is focused on a warrior ethos entrepreneurship and masculine leadership and 25 years of extreme discipline looking and by the way you're also uh if there's anybody paying attention franchising empire inc internationally yes so there's all kinds of opportunity on this episode folks but the lessons is what i want to get out because there's people listening that are like let's just say fuck ups and a lot of people want to write those people off and and and i think in a lot of cases it's it's the fuck up that that writes themselves off because it doesn't matter if someone else writes you off what matters is if you write yourself off you know what i mean yeah so so like they gotta they they gotta hear from someone who could have been written off you could have been written off dude you could have been in jail you could have been dead in new york are you even surprised you're now a successful entrepreneur you know hindsight is 20 20 so right now I could say no but if I if I were talking to that kid which I talk to very often he's surprised you know what I mean so I could put myself in the shoes of somebody who's there as well and that that is the same is the same story it's it's that fuck up needs to know that there's another way and and there is another way but it starts with a choice and it starts with the choice of accepting that there's, there's something bigger than you. Because when you take responsibility for whatever it is, you're taking the responsibility of something that can be greater than you. So I think that's the first thing that, that, that people need to do is be aware that there's something more important than, than that survival mechanism. You know, there is abundance and how you see the world is how the world is going to treat you back. Where do people listen to your podcast? SoundCloud, Spotify, iTunes? I put it out on YouTube and I do have like my Instagram, which is basically Empire is the Way. And, you know, we'd had, you know, some nice 32 episodes so far. You know, I even interviewed in my podcast, I launched it in 2016. I got to interview Pablo Escobar's Hitman face to face. And that was, that was that was a reality check for me because i went back to colombia and i sat with him this guy has you know at the he's dead now but at that time when i sat down with him you know he did 23 and a half years in jail that was the maximum that colombia would allow for well even if you murder 100 people that was just the max so he did the max i sat with him i talked to him and even he himself said he's like steve he's like i would come back and do it all over again because I love Pablo Escobar so much. So it shows you like, you know, gang mentality, family, you know, that, that love, that respect, that's paramount, man. That could really, you know, he'll come back, he'll come back from death to do it again, so to speak, you know, and that's a reality check, man. And, and that's part of the podcast is like really also, you know, diving into like entrepreneurship. I think entrepreneurship is probably one of the highest roles you could ever have because it forces you to deal with yourself. It forces you to continue to level up. You always have to push because your company can only go as far as you could go. So if you're at the helm, you're the one calling the shots. If you're not holding yourself to the highest standard, seeking better information, that's it. Your company doesn't grow anymore. So that's the beauty about being an entrepreneur that you're constantly in a perpetual state of war. And that's, these are all bombs, by the way, folks, if you haven't been on the show, I haven't been dropping the bombs only because people are like, you can't hear them like you think you can, but these are all bombs. How old are you? I'm 42. Yes. You're a wise man, my friend. You think, you think it was the road that, that kind of taught you these lessons or did you have, a mentor or coach or books? Do you read? No. Where are you learning all this? You know who I learned it from? And I tell this, believe it or not. And I tell her this all the time, my daughter. So she's 21. How do you learn it from her though? I tell her all the time. I'm like, you're the reason why I'm still alive, little girl. You know, she's a grown woman. So, you know, shout out to my daughter I love her very much But the reason why when I left New York she was a year and a half And I looking at this little baby man And this is why I say the mantle of responsibility Because I'm looking at this little kid. And I, you know, friends, acquaintances, people who are like, you know, oh, I'm not going to get a job because I don't want to pay child support. You know, that kind of mentality is in the streets, you know. And I'm like, this is wrong. There's something wrong here, you know. And I'm like, no, no. I'm going to take my responsibility. and I decided to take that kid and, you know, my ex at the time, we moved here. For me, traveling was going from New York to the Bronx, to Queens, to Manhattan. There was no palm trees. When I came here, I was like, oh shit, there's another world. So I moved her out of there because I decided if I would have stayed, I would be in big trouble, if at all, you know what I mean? So taking that responsibility of there's something more than me, there's a there's a child that's that's that's that I'm responsible for that kind of that kind of helped start turning the gears in a different direction you know and I'm not saying go have a kid at 19 to like learn that experience but that's what did it for me and then I'm able to look back and say you know what all the times that that you know she was like she didn't she didn't you know I would go we're split but but she she's like I don't want to go with you dad I want to go with my mom and crying and you kind of like you as a dad you're like you hear that you kind of almost want to throw in the towel you kind of like damn what you know so getting through all of that uh turmoil and and just accepting no this is the way it is and i'm gonna i'm gonna build my own way and i'm gonna kind of you know guide her and and and be responsible that's what started that whole i believe that whole um trajectory of the of of empirism let's call it you know just like no no This is the right way of doing things. When did you learn you could draw? Some of my earliest memories are of me drawing. Well, you've been drawing your whole life. I've been drawing my whole life. That's why I do a lot of freehand tattooing because I'll sit down with somebody. I'll look at their frame. I'll look at their muscle structure, how they're put together, what they really want. And I just put it together and create something very unique for that person. I use a lot of freehand. I've done tattoos in pretty much all over the world. You know, my tattooing has led me to places like Australia, Romania, Italy, the Caribbean. I mean, I've had my traveling days with tattooing all over, you know. Do people have to trust you to let you freehand? Absolutely. But it's something that, you know, I have clients who come in and like, okay, go do your thing. They already know. Then you have another set of clients who are like, I don't know who you are. And the thing is, once I start drawing and putting it together for them, they're like, oh, okay. And they just trust me. It's also because I've been doing this for quite a while. So I do have the confidence, but the proof's in the pudding. You know, it's there. I don't promote myself as a tattoo artist everywhere. That's not what I've been doing. I've been running a business for the past 16 years, 10 years in the business. now the last couple of years, kind of outside strategizing and doing a lot more. So I don't tattoo every day. That's not really my mechanism. I'm focused on how to grow this brand and getting international. And that takes a lot of work on both ends while still being an artist, still being an entrepreneur, being disciplined, still having all of these projects going on. And, you know, it it's a challenge for sure that's what that's what forges people though yes did you did you have a name like a a name nickname a nickname um when that's like hey are you steve no they call me cruise or something like like usually usually good tattoo artists always have some sort of name it's it's it's true i i didn't develop a nickname people would always used to call me just mr Santa Cruz it was it was just funny um Mr. Santa Cruz hey Santa Cruz you know that was something that was always big or Stevie and that was it but the Stevie left a long time ago um but as a nickname no because I didn't really go out of the gate as an artist remember like I literally opened a tattoo shop before I knew how to tattoo that's almost sacrilege in the tattoo world you know it's not really looked upon as a good thing by the tattoo community me I mean I really don't care it doesn't really matter this is my story and I'm sticking to it but I learned from my artists you know I give them their respect and a lot of artists have learned from Empire Inc now they have their own tattoo shops they have their own success stories you know people like Panda Tattoo Apollo you know Sebastian's you have a lot of people who've opened up their own business And I'm happy for them. I'm glad. And now I look at my business as one of those transitional, like a very important staple in the tattoo community for you to come stop in that empire. You grow. And then you could either continue with the Empire Inc. brand or you could have your own at the end of the day. You know, I'm not, I'm not, you know. Do you like mentor a lot of these artists that are working for Empire? If they say, I want to go build my own, you don't see them as competition. you know uh the old me always saw the competition um always saw it as like oh you know these people come in and learn from me and then they leave what the fuck blah blah blah over the years you know i've grown accustomed to that it's just the way that the world is and and you're here to do the best that you can with what you got and if something is meant to stick it'll stick and if it doesn't it is what it is i have standards though and i have expectations so i'm very up front with the people that come in you know i i i interview i check i have them do demos and then we talk and then over time you get to see who's who if it's somebody bad i i if it's somebody that's not good for my company i don't have an issue cutting ties without a moment's pause at all i don't carry that but i do give them the the the opportunity to to let them rise as much as they can you know and and and i like i like mentoring artists i like showing them that there's something more than just oh uh you know a tattoo for the day how much did i make for the day no let's think about the week let's think about the month let's think about the year what are your goals what are you where are you trying to see yourself in the next year the two years three years because that's when i start seeing like okay is this person a good fit for the culture or not you know and if or not you cut them loose quick and if not i cut them loose quick yeah if it's do you ever feel bad i used to um i i feel bad if i don't um because you know in my own experience i think the hardest lessons that i've learned when when i was given the the the the bombs of truth and how the world really is that's when that's when i really like oh that's when i learned my lesson so i think the more you can the more you can give that in the world realistically the better off people will be so so it's true you know the hardest coaches that i've i've had i remember i played football for seven years and my coach coach vic used to tell me he's like you want to warm up pee in your pants you know and and i love that coach you you know what i'm saying so really i think that's what the world really needs is a little bit more of you know it's like your episode is you know like your podcast dropping bombs i think they're really truths you know and people are not ready for the truth sometimes sometimes they get offended by the truth they get offended and the reason why is because it's the truth and they don't want to face it right and not nine times out of ten it's it's the truth staring back i'm staring back at them in the mirror yeah yeah because they know like i love when people you know tell me why they're not succeeding why they haven't done this why they haven't done that why they haven't been able to do this and they bring up the reasons and it's hardly ever because i blank it's always because you know yeah they that right because this guy you know it's like dude listen ultimately you will learn it's always our responsibility it's crazy too because that took me a long time i was blaming everybody for everything until i didn't and then it's people start to argue still even even people that understand what i'm saying i'll be like well it's not you it's not your fault if you get cancer no not necessarily but it's your fault how you respond to it it's your fault if you give up it's your fault if you freaking let it spoil your attitude your gratitude your you know what i mean so like yeah technically dude yeah everything you can't control everything but at the end of the day everything is your responsibility you you could have won you could have lost and if you lose you blame and if you win you you you you know accept it's like no it needs to be the other way around almost like I want to blame my team for winning. Why? Because I couldn't have won without them, you know, but I'm also understanding like Snoop Dogg, you know, I want to thank me. I want to thank me for not giving up. I want to thank me for picking up that book. You know what I mean? But, um, the bomb squad, uh, our listeners, I got all kinds, investors, you know, real estate, flippers, salespeople, tattoo artists. I'm sure. Matter of fact, I know, um, are you looking And for artists, how are you planning on growing the Empire Inc. franchise? Well, I mean, I think over the time, over this learning curve that I've had 16 years in the industry and, you know, having a lot of wins and having a lot of losses too. Right now, what I'm looking to do is I'm working on the systems, on the back end, on making the process a lot easier for everybody who's going to be involved. to be able to have like very transparent ways to, to do business with, with, in, in the tattoo field. Like for example, when you come into a tattoo shop, you know, you have to sign a waiver, you have to, you know, you, you want to get, you want to get treated a little bit better than, than, you know, the reason I got into the tattooing was because I remember going into tattoo shops and, you know, it was almost like the tattoo artist was, you know, like, thank God, thank God that I'm, I'm talking to him, so to speak. You know, that was their attitude, you know, the prima donna attitude. And you know, it's funny cause I've been into some and I was going to say like, they're rude. Yeah. They're almost like you're bothering them. Right. Right. And, and, and I don't like that. I personally don't like that. So when I started empire Inc, I said my, my goal with this, with this brand, what I'm going to do. I wasn't, I, in the beginning it wasn't like, Oh, I have a brand or I'm going to go international. No, it was like, I want a tattoo shop. I want freedom. I still want to be a rebel. I still have that rebellious instinct in me and I want to do my own thing, but I also want to do it with, with respect and I want to be able to give the client something that I didn't get when I was looking for tattoos. So that's really what created the empire and culture. Realistically. You remember your first tattoo? I remember my first tattoo. I was 15 years old and I got this set of praying hands and I, I went to a spot in Queens and it was like a second story by the, by the train station. And, and at 15 years old, they're not supposed to tattoo you. But I think that artist was like high on something. And I, and he was like, I'll tattoo you, man. I was like, all right, cool. I just wanted a tattoo. So that was my first experience. What did your parents say? At the time my mother wasn't too happy about it. I was hiding the tattoo for like two weeks with a long sleeve shirt in the summertime because I didn't want her to see it when she saw it she was like oh my god it's the end of the world my pops you know rest in peace I love my pops um he died 14 years ago but he was all against the tattoo thing and then when I got into it so the success and all of that I ended up tattooing him before he passed which was really dope you know I put uh uh the baby Jesus on one side and the cross on the other sides and then he wanted more so it was a really really great tattooing has really changed, you know, my family's life, you know, my brothers into the tattoo world. You know, we've been, I've been able to, you know, give them temporary jobs for a long time. And, and, you know, it's changed our, our, our, our family for, so to speak, you know, do you, do you innovate in your mind to try and reinvent? Like, for example, I always think, and I don't know if this exists, but, temporary tattoos, but not like the ones that are there, like the little henna ones and the shit that last for three days. No, like, wouldn't it be cool if you could figure out how to give someone tattoos that as long as they want it, it's there. But if they ever change their mind, it's like zinc gone. Without the seriousness of getting them removed. Cause it's not as easy as it sounds. No, it's not. And I've had, I've had my stomach removed. I've had my, my hand removed and then my whole back removed. and then redone. So it's a very painful, elaborate process. And I know what it is. That's why it's good to have a good tattoo the first time. Business owners, listen up. If your business needs more money, and it will, banks aren't built to move quick. They make you fill out a ton of paperwork, wait for a decision. And by that time, the opportunity is passed. 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I've heard, yeah, it's like about a year, I think it is. Because the bottom line is if you don't like it, it'll fade and be literally back to nothing and then get a different one. Yeah, which is actually really cool. And I mean, that's something that I heard that was out there. I'd get those right now. Yeah. Does your shop do those? No we don do those because apparently there some kind of patent on the ink and who providing them but I don know Well I look into it Do you know why Yeah Because from a business standpoint if you go do me a sleeve i only have one arm brother i not going to keep doing it but if you do if you do the the one year sleeve i'll be back every year changing it up i mean and i might eventually come back and go you know what steve i need that one permanent like i fucking love this one yeah i never want it to fade bang then you go that way but i think a lot of people are afraid to get tattoos because of the permanence of them. And I think if I were in the tattoo game, I'd want to figure out how do I make it look like a real permanent tattoo, but get a little bit of freaking ability to change it. Cause how do you get more people to tattoo, make it less permanent. You, I mean, you're, you're definitely right on that. Uh, you know, our, our thing was, there's always somebody turning 18. There's always new skin. Um, sure. but that right there is definitely gold for sure. Yeah. So if someone has the patented ink, that just means you got to pay them to use it. So charge me more. You want the permanent tattoo? It's X amount of dollars. You want the one-year tattoo? It's actually a little bit more, but in a year it'll just fade back to regular skin. I'd be like, I'll take that one. Sure. Because I can always make it permanent. And I'll bet you anything that would change the game for a lot of people. because they want to be able to see it. Like if you told me right now, Brad, I'll tattoo you for free, bro, freaking full back piece, the whole bit, anything you want, free. Well, I need to see it. Now you might be able to see it in your head, but how do I see it? But if it was like, you know, this will last six months, it'll look like a real one. It'll hurt like a real one, but I ain't worried about the pain. You know what I mean? I got tattoos. And by the way, they're not that painful. in in in normal places no it's it's crazy though how painful um this one was like for some reason yeah yeah for some reason that freaking hurt like a bitch and and the the chest didn't really rule of thumb is is places that really don't see a lot of sun are a little bit more sensitive and anywhere there's a crease like on the creases you got you get that extra little jolt you know Can you perform or not perform, administer anesthesia at your facility? So we don't have that because you got to have a medical. Yeah, you got to have an anesthesiologist. Exactly. But what we do have is we do have a numbing agent, which is really. It actually works. I would say it probably minimizes the pain by maybe if you go from 1 to 10, you use that cream, you leave it there for about 45 minutes, sips into the skin properly, you'll feel maybe like a three, four tops, which is a, you know, it takes away the whole, you know, it's a big reduction of the pain, which is good, you know? Yeah, and there's people that do it because of the pain. I ain't one of them. Yeah. Like if you could blink your eyes and I'd come out with the baddest tattoo ever, like, dude, just get me the work. I don't need the pain. Although I'm not afraid of the pain, I just, I don't need it. Do you find people walking in that need that pain? It's almost like, it's almost like a, what would you say earlier? It's like a, yeah. And it's a, it's a, it's a rite of passage. Yeah. It's a rite of passage, the pain. And in other words, if there's no pain, dude, it's not really a tattoo. Well, I mean, you know, if you think about like, you know, a man of your experience, where did you get the most experience out of life? Out of where? Yeah, pain, challenges, discomfort. Yeah. But in this case, like again, because I've never, I might have had a numbing agent, but it didn't work very well. but I'll just say for this sake I've never had a numbing agent and it hurts but it's not so unbearable you can't take it you're I mean it's not so unbearable I'm glad you're saying that because sometimes when people come into the shop they think that it's it's one of those things they're like oh they're scared of the pain and then I tell them I'm like look first of all it's not that bad second of all we have numbing cream so you can get it all don't be a bitch and don't don't be a pussy i mean there's females with full body tattoos they're they're fine with it it's just i think it's mental it's it's a hundred percent mental because yes it it does it's uncomfortable yes and it hurts yes but unbearable no well i also tell you something you know from from tattooing that many people i've noticed also too that girls are the most scared but they're the ones who feel it the least because i you know it must be something from you know being able to bear children and, and, and that kind of, I mean, that's imagine that pain, right? So that's, that's real pain. So their bodies are already wired for that type of pain. So they actually do even better than guys sometimes. It's funny. It just is the way it is. So if there's somebody in Cleveland, Ohio listening right now, why would they get on a plane and go clear down to empire Inc just to get their work done and not Joe Schmo tattoo and Cleveland? Well, first of all, Empire Inc. is Empire Inc. You know, we've been around for 16 years. That's not the only reason. The reason is because we care, we do quality work, and we take you from A through Z. A lot of these people who are coming from all around the world, it's their first tattoo or they're tattoo collectors or they don't know who to trust when they step into town. Who doesn't come to Miami? That person in Ohio, that person in San Diego, they're going to step into Miami sometime. so when they come they when they come to Miami they gotta stop at Empire Inc and see what an actual real proper treatment of a tattoo is from A through Z from the moment you're greeted from the from the moment that you are that that we listen we see what your vision really is we pair you up with the artist that's going to do at phenomenal work and what if they want you so if they want me uh i'm available but at a limited rate because i don't have all the time in the world but the way that i tattoo like with me in my office you can't get numbing cream because my tattooing aside from the fact that it's black and gray it's one of a kind it's it's it's freehand it's also i i do the rite of passage thing man you come in you want to get you want to get numbing cream you want to go through that experience cool no problem that's what empire inc is for i have no issue with that but if you if if if you consider yourself a person who needs a tattoo for a specific reason specific meaning and you need to go through that that warrior uh passage that's what you come to me for that's where we sit down and i give you my time and i create something for you that nobody else will have you should you know you should create uh well not create because you can't create your own nickname but like if that's the warrior passage they should just call you like warrior like oh dude you need to see warrior on that one oh i like that i like that i might i might hold on to that steve santa cruz folks if you guys want your passage and and not only that like you're the ceo and founder so you're really not tattooing unless unless like so it's not like you're sitting there you know fighting over the guy that walks in no no no no and and and even even so i created a system in my shop where there's a rotation process it's a respect to the artist respect to the time to their craft and no one's allowed to be rude because dude almost every tattoo shop i've been in you get the root and i understand why they're rude because people are fucking pussies and they're stupid and they fucking come in and pick some stupid shit off a wall and you're basically wasting my talent with your stupid ass anchor right at least let me draw my own fucking anchor but my point is they're always rude yeah like what if you what if i walk if i walk in there and they don't even know that you've been on the podcast they don't know me from adam they're gonna treat me just like they would brad pitt walks in there A hundred percent, man. A hundred percent. Because that's, you know, the Empire Inc. has a star over the eye. That star is the client. You know, at the end of the day, the client is the star. That's the reason why we're there. That's the reason why I'm able to continue in this journey, continue growing. And that's the reason why I have the ability to cut off an artist and open the doors to another one because our clients trust us and they trust me to make sure that they're being serviced properly. How do you do that? Like, what if you have a really talented artist? They've been cool for two years, but they're having a bad day. I mitigate that because I have another role in the shop, which is pretty much the captain, the oncologist, you could say. It's a person who actually deals with that, with their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the midpoint, they're the connector. They're sitting down, they're greeting the people. They see what they want. You know, you also get tire kickers, you know, and we, I don't want to, I don't want to waste my artist time as well with people who are not serious. So there has to be some type of person who sees what's real, what's not, what does this person want? Are they in a budget? Do they want something very specific? Do they want to flash off a wall? they kind of funnel. What is it that I want now that you know, because I told you. What type, if I walked in and you were the, what'd you call it, the integrator? Well, the captain. Yeah, if you're the captain and I told you what I told you, what am I looking for? Basically, you're looking for somebody who can understand your aesthetics to put together a story, to create a story, a visual story, and be able to integrate the old tattoos into new tattoos. Now, another artist might give you a different set of ideas. They may not speak about armor. They may not speak about doing the rhino in a 3D form on top of the chest plate. They might say, oh, let's put another family of rhinos. Let's do a lion. Let's do nature. Every artist is their own world. Do you see what I'm saying? So that's also why it's imperative to understand. Like once you speak to somebody, that captain knows, okay, this person has this expectations. They want this type of art. Let me pair them with the right artist. Does any artist ever get pissed? Oh, they always piss, man. They live pissed. My artist. It's like, if I need money and I'm trying to get my freaking money on and the old captain says, no, this guy's looking for more of a cartoon black and white. And I'm like, fuck you. I can do cartoon black and white, bitch. well that is why also the the it's not as simple as saying you know i i hire artists who are specific i hire artists who also could do whatever walks into the door because that's part of my that's part of my interview process my interview process you do you culturally fit into empire ring because i have a lot of people getting their first tattoos collectors small keepsake tattoos matching tattoos that's a bread and butter so if you can't do that i mean at the at the end of the day, then you're probably not really going to be a good fit. If you could do the rest of the stuff, if you can be open to learning, if you could be open to, you know, seeing yourself grow here, then at the end of the day, then, then we could continue on the process, you know? So that's, that's why I look for that. When you do freehand, is it like, give me the gun and the ink and let me draw on your skin? Or do you freehand a drawing and then apply it to the skin and then go there? Yeah, so my favorite, my favorite, my best friends are the Sharpies. I have a box of Sharpies with all different colors. You have like all the primary colors, yellow, blues, reds, okay, but also black, brown. So what I do when I freehand is I look at the place where I put first, I put the line where I'm not going to pass to make sure that the client's like, okay, I want it to come off a little bit on the shirt, but not too high. So I put these like phantom lines. Are we good with this? Yes. Okay, cool. Now I draw within that framework. In that framework, I'll grab like a very light marker and draw. I'll draw the rhino, the pieces and all of that. Once I have it, then I start going with like deeper markers and then you start seeing the picture come to life. So I personally draw everything before I tattoo it. It's not like I just grab the gun and just go right into town. I don't do that. Because that'd be scary. I've done it. But that's what I mean by like they'd have to trust you, bro. Because like they're like, hey, whatever you say, man, just slap it on there. I mean, at the end of the day, you know, you can ask a lot of people about Steve Sander Cruz. You know, they'll tell you how I tattoo. And it's, you know, I'm not even promoting myself out there like that. You know, again, I'm running a brand and I'm, you know, it's a brand that I'm taking off the ground. So that takes a lot of work too. A lot. So if someone's listening and they happen to be an artist and they want to come work at Empire, are you hiring? I'm always hiring. I have an open door policy. I have a guest artist coming from all around the world for a couple of weeks too. They come in, stop at Empire, they tattoo. So I have artists that have been with me 13 years, eight years, seven years, you know, but I'm, yeah, I always have spots for, for artists for sure. And, and what if somebody is an investor and they're like, dude, I want to, I want to buy into this Empire Inc. franchise. Would you, would you be open to investors? I'm, I'm open to anything that makes sense because I think life is all about networking and seeing what makes sense as long as it obviously makes sense. But one thing that investors need to know about the tattoo world is tattooing is one of the oldest art forms that's ever existed. You find tattoos everywhere. In the 70s, 80s, tattoos were rockers and bikers. Tattooing franchises are not really out there like that. this is a it's it's it's a billion dollar bubble that's ready to burst and it's going to fall either on the wrong hands or at least internal hands and i'm very interested in making sure that it falls in internal hands and is controlled by tattoo like i you know a person like myself i'm my whole life is invested in this in this industry so for me i would say yes as long as it makes sense and Obviously, you know, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm a one man army right now, but you know, definitely be open to something that makes sense for sure. By the way, folks, in case you didn't hear me, Steve Santa Cruz, just like it sounds on Instagram at Steve Santa Cruz, you can Google obviously empire Inc and find it all over the place. But, uh, social media is at Steve Santa Cruz. if you want to DM him and then at Empire Inc. Studios or Empire Inc. Stars, both of those, and then Google it. You'll find it. It's been around. So, so whether you want to invest or maybe go to work there. And again, you're not even opposed to someone to come to work there, really just to learn if their ambition is to open their own. Yeah. Cause right now my, one of my next goals is in the franchising model My goal right now is to institute So now I want to start teaching to be able to also get that new talent get the artists who actually want to learn how to tattoo properly and and go through I think there is there a is there a tattoo school where you learned a tattoo? There are, but, but not like, they're not. Like you got to do it to learn it. Yeah. You got to do it to learn it, but it's also not really presented by tattoo artists. They're, they're, they've been, I guess, by lack of a better way, they've been, you know, i guess it's it's when when it's not a tattoo artist teaching you you're learning from from the people who are in the business side of the tattoo which are very prominent is they're kind of full of shit you know they don't know they they're poured out do you ever do you ever have people practice on a pig yeah because a pig fry here is like yeah it's the closest thing and it's it's it's it's nasty and it is what it is and you got to go through it how how do you how come sometimes like someone will get a tattoo here like that says love just love and then a year later it's seeped out and it looks like a blob of shit because there's different factors and there's different variables like for example when you tattoo and if you tattoo the word love on a place where you have this fold eventually that fold guess what happens every day you're folding so the ink is under the skin. It's microscopic particles of ink. And at some level, they keep going under and under and under. They spread out. So if it's in a fold, it's going to spread out even more. So you always got to kind of tattoo outside of that. The other thing is the experience of the tattoo artist. What type of tools is he using? Back in the day, they were using big-ass needles to tattoo names. Guess what happens to those names? They turn into blobs. They turn into black rectangles. Nowadays, there's a lot more, you know, there's a lot of more fine line type of tattooing. Precision. There's a lot more precision. The machines are a lot more precise. Do you ever see those, I think they're pretty much words written very cursively almost, but small. Like almost where it just looks like a line, but when you look close, oh, that says this. Is that like a special tool that they have to have? Well, I mean, it's just the size of the needle. The smaller the needle, the more precise you can make the line and the less it'll expand over time. So that's just a matter of the right tool for the right job. What about black light invisible tattoos where you get a whole tattoo, doesn't look like you have one, but if you go in a black light, bam. Yeah, that was big back in the days. They're not doing them as much because those are microscopic pellets inside of your skin that are glowing i mean that's really what it is me personally i don't like doing that because that can cause some type of side effects you know and we don't know what clear the side effects are but you're putting plastic look at the micro what are microplastics right now doing to the body yeah to men they're fucking us up so imagine injecting that on a on a piece of skin you know at some level you know you want to have some code of ethics and i i personally don't do that. What, you know, what, uh, if someone's listening that has a tattoo shop, but they're not like rocking it yet, what advice would you give them? Well, first of all, if you have a tattoo shop and you're not rocking it, you know, understand that first is all about the client and what they want. Typically the artist is like, no, I want to do this, but yeah, but did you listen to what the person really wanted and why they're getting it? This person's coming into you. they're coming to you maybe seeking you know a moment of therapy man at the end of the day that that tattoo that they want to get means something to them maybe somebody just passed and they really going through a hard time so if you could take yourself out and listen to the client and put them first and why they're getting a tattoo I think that's that's one of the most important things the other thing is make sure that you are doing it quality that you're teaching them that you're showing them how to take care of it. Because at the end of the day, a tattoo is a medical procedure. You're opening somebody's skin. So you can't play around with these people's health, you know? And then when it comes down to it, you do that over a long period of time. People either come back, they refer other people, and then, you know, you can create a brand. You could create a business. You could create freedom through that. But I think that's one of the biggest things that they forget is that it's about the client first, realistically. Are you guys able to do those, like I like to say Hawaiian or more like Samoan where you pound the back of a, you know, your- Oh, the tau tau. So that's where it came from, tau tau, tattoo. Yeah, because like some people want that experience. Yeah, that is something that we do not offer. That's something that, you know, I think there's also, there's something to be said about getting that experience from the people who actually have done their their work in in that field or or they've done their own rite of passage you know there's there's an old lady i think she might be in her 90s man and she's in the philippines still doing that and people in order to get to her apparently you have to go through like a two hour trek to get to her and get that tattoo so i i don't want to bastardize that and put that in my shop but you know you know what i mean i bring her to your shop but bring her to the shop maybe that would be that would be good i don't think she ever leaves there though that's just something that well she ain't the only one in the world that can do it she's not no usually usually they're in hawaii or yeah or somewhere but like that's a special like that's a rite of passage for those people that's why they all have them absolutely it's like it's like you're you're a man when when you finally get to be one you know that pop pop pop pop and i apparently someone told me that those hurt like a son of a bitch they do they do that's also uh the the japanese also do that too they they you know they do it with bamboo well the japanese man they cover the whole entire body but they do more color what they do is a lot of bold lines traditional japanese tattooing is like what you would find in the jacuzzas that we were talking about but i see green and orange goldfish and like you know i see a lot of color which you know color can be cool but all the coolest shit that i've ever seen is usually like it's the way it's shading it's yeah it's a black and gray it's a black and gray and you know a little splash of color maybe but like black and gray seems to be in my mind the coolest and lasts the longest because that shit doesn't fade it's because it's timeless it's timeless it's it's it's it's it will always be it's like when you look at those frescoes those michelangelos there there's some art that's just timeless and the skin the more timeless is the black and gray it does last the longest it looks better the the longest and for some reason it just has that patina that like it just stays with you you know and it's like reverse almost so like you would think well how do you have that well it's not even that if you looked at the drawing without the the opposite like the beard of that you know whoever the hell that is myself who who is that is that like a zeus looking guy it's a zeus looking guy but this is actually god of the bible um this is this is the if you ever looked at the yahuwah or yahshua yeshua the creation of Adam where they're about to touch, you know, God's about to give Adam the breath of life. This is the face of God that was in that, in that fresco painted by Michelangelo. Yeah. So I'm trying to explain to people that are just listening. So let's say it looks like God or Zeus, but, but the beard, you can't draw that beard. It has to be the beard is actually what's not drawn. Right. Right. That's the negative space. Yeah. So the negative is what, is what makes me like the black and white because like the ear, you know, you're not drawing an ear, you're drawing the shade of an ear and the white that has nothing on it is the ear. Right. To me, that's cool. And it wouldn't exist without that contrast. Yeah. So like, that's why I like it because like, it's not even you're, and that's why it's to me like amazing. Cause like you didn't draw the face of God. You drew the shadow of his face. Yeah. your skin is what's the face yeah pretty much like i would think it's cool so i want to get all my shit that's a little bit color already mostly black and gray but like where if someone saw me they'd go that was all done at one time by one person because to me that's that's the coolest like when you go in and just knock it out one time one shot artwork yeah what does the bible say about tattoos? Anything? Yeah. I mean, thou should not carve, uh, you should not, uh, engrave on any image. I mean, I don't want to butcher the saying, but it's, it's something like you shouldn't really carve any, any idols. Uh, so even, even worship idols. Are good or bad? Uh, for me, I mean, I think, you know, there's, there's so many things that the bible i i think at the end of the day can be taken out of context for different things and you know people people say for example you shouldn't eat pork or you shouldn't you know do uh so many things but i think nowadays with the way technology is with the way that the world is um to me i think uh tattoos are an acceptable form of art it's another expression and and I don't think it goes against the Bible from my perspective, you know, but I'm not a theologian. So also I'm not going to speak to, you know, you know, that deep into that one. Well, just for the people that are all worried because they think it's against God. Let's go straight to the verse. Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. that's the one everybody thinks means you can't get tattoos right but uh that's where that's where they're incorrect okay leviticus is part of the mosaic law given to ancient israel same section same section which you're just talking about talks about eating shellfish wearing clothes made of mixed fabrics trimming certain parts of your beard so again why are you shaving homie right worried about a tattoo but but in reality um if i go on to read this whole thing it says it's not talking about the tattoo itself it's are you worshiping you know this image like in other words if i tattooed um like a rhino but and and now i'm idolizing that rhino well then you shouldn't do it and you shouldn't carve one either so basically after after it's all said and done says yeah you can get into heaven with tattoos just again why'd you get them is the question i believe so man and i i you know heaven is is also one of those things that you could create heaven and hell here while you're alive too you could create a hell for yourself or a heaven which goes back into the whole entrepreneur bettering yourself and bettering your life journey it's you know creating create your own help drop a bomb these are bombs santa cruz I'm, I'm, I'm, thank God I'm, I'm here to do them. Well, normally I ask, you know, what, what can the bomb squad do for you? I want to, I want to go see the Pablo Escobar's hit man story. So like, where do I find that YouTube? Yeah. So if you go on YouTube, um, my, my, so under my channel, Steve Santa Cruz, you have the podcast, which is called empire is the way. And the first episode that I dropped was the, the Pablo Escobar with Popeye. and that kind of in 2016 when i did that interview i did it in in medellin okay that's kind of what set off my whole like damn i want to get into the podcast and that was really cool because i was doing a documentary about tattooing and my my my my travels and that tattooing but i happened to get to that point i was like you know i there's something to this speaking to somebody podcasting it wasn't podcasting it was more at the time it was like just getting to know somebody curiously like an interview you know and and over time i'm like damn if uh that was in 2016 and then i started my podcast in 2025 but i added that 2016 episode to launch the podcast well it's a good one because it makes me want to go watch it yeah for sure what did he say like imagine if you were like pablo's main guy right hand yes and you know he buried money all over like pablo escobar supposedly has like billions of dollars still unaccounted for because it's buried now if you dug it up it might be still good but it could also rot but a lot of it was rotten yeah yeah but like this guy probably knows where the bodies are buried and all the shit can you imagine um i not only imagine but i you know my my family is from colombia so that's also the reason why i kind of i was like you know i'm back in town i used to go to medellin all the time so i had uh the ability to sit down with him and talk to him it was a really funny story really crazy but um how long is the interview is it do you ask him some good shit yeah i did i did i did i was there for i had him uh for about four hours so dude fellas ladies if you want a tattoo you go to empire inc you might have to fly to miami actually again that's another thing always do well that's another thing i was going to ask. Um, this is just me business ideas. Cause I always put myself in your shoes and think, well, I'd be doing this. I'd be, yeah, it costs more. Do we got to fly people out to you? But if, if, if the high end guys are willing to fricking say, Hey dude, I don't have time to come to Miami, but I can pay for Miami to come to me. You know, you should offer home visits. Cause again, I mean, like, dude, there's a lot of people they don't like right now, if you said, dude, come down, I'll do it for free. I ain't going to Miami right now. I got shit to do. But if you said, Hey dude, I'll bring my shit here. You know, I still got shit to do, unfortunately, but at least I'm here. Right. You know what I mean? But I like Miami because it's a destination. It's a cool town. And it's kind of, it kind of, it kind of helps the whole vibe. Don't forget Miami was also built on the, on, on the Narcos, man. So that, you know, New York, Miami, Columbia, man, as I'm just in that triangle you know I happen to be yeah um but yeah warrior now I now you can say hey that's the name they gave me they gave me folks go go go follow them at Steve Santa Cruz just like you just like it sounds at Empire Inc Studios appreciate you coming in if you guys want to invest reach out to him he ain't looking but he might be willing he's going international National Empire Inc. Now, you know, till next time, keep it real. Definitely.