254: MORE Updates!

We rolling? We are up, running, rolling, hop, skipping, and jumping. On a river. Rolling on a river. Dude, every time I hear river, all I hear is that, I think it was Wendy Williams, denial is a river in Egypt. I have seen that one. Your husband is gay. I have seen that one. That's so good. I don't know. Every time I hear river or denial, I just hear Wendy in my ear. That's kind of a beautiful earworm. it kind of is is that the right yeah yeah audio stim it's an interesting one it's not one i would say out loud unless it's to my closest nearest and dearest friends you guys but um yeah i don't know i'm just like i'm in a weird funk right now i feel like everyone's kind of in a funk yeah with everything going on um like it's so crazy to recording something and then like okay this comes out two weeks later or three weeks later yeah we don't know what's gonna be happening we don't even know so it's like it's so hard with the podcast and like banking episodes because like a lot of my episodes that i'm recording in the next couple weeks like won't even be seen for months and it's just like yeah and every so much is happening every day every day it's crazy each and every day so we're kind of continuing on our theme we did updates happy endings with jenna last week we're going to do another update episode like i but not happy endings not happy endings a lot of them i haven't read the endings actually okay so could it could conceivably have a happy ending could okay and it also depends on your definition of a happy ending oh wow is breaking up a happy ending if it's a lot of the best yeah a lot of the time that counts for me so these are just a lot of chaotic crazy stories with updates we just need something another week of predictability and chaos but closure i love updates i just like to leave the story feeling more like okay well at least i know at least you know i feel the same way even if it's bad like at least it's resolved at least you know yeah i'm with you so let's just hop right into it okay i don't know if i have anything else to say you guys are about to hear me talk enough so yeah let's just get as many stories in as possible oh okay let's dive in This episode of Two Outtakes is presented by State Farm. It can be hard choosing the juiciest story for you guys on this podcast. And if you need help making a choice, State Farm helps you choose the coverage that matters most to you. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on ratings plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. Up first, and again, I'm checking all of my Reddit master doc sheets for all of these stories. so if you feel like you've heard this story don't just say i've heard this story morgan give me the time stamps of the episode because i go crazy i feel like we're all in this mandela effect and i'm like did i read it but i know i feel like i would think that whether i just read it myself on reddit whether i listened to another podcast whether i saw it on facebook like yeah i feel like if it especially was a long time ago you would mix up in your head where you heard it from It happens. And honestly, you guys, my memory is horrible these days. I'm getting a brain scan. Memory is very unreliable. It's crazy, actually. I don't know. I just feel like I have weird, almost expressive aphasia. And the words I'm saying, it's just like, what the hell are you trying to say most of the time? And watching back the edits has been brutal lately. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to get a brain scan and just make sure we're good. I haven't seen that at all. Okay. I'll tell you that. Thank you. I'm just. But do whatever makes you feel, you know, safe. Safe then sorry. Oh, and if you're having tummy issues, colon cancer rates just shot up again. So eat your fiber, get your colonoscopy. Story one. It's like my soapbox. That out of the way. Yeah, we're good. We're good. We're locked in now. So this is coming from Am I the Asshole? It's titled, am I the asshole for telling my wife to stop being so jealous of my friend's fiance? My wife, 35 female, and I, 36 male, are good friends with another couple, my best friend, Matt, 36 male, and his fiance, Rachel, 24 female. Rachel models and is very attractive. My wife is less conventionally attractive, but I fell in love with her for her humor and good spirit, which I personally find more attractive than good looks. Recently, I've noticed my wife making a lot of comments about Rachel, calling her an airhead, and just kind of being mean. When my wife makes these comments in private, I'm able to stand up for Rachel, but when they're made in public, I obviously don't want to embarrass my wife by calling her out. My wife and I went on a trip away with Matt and Rachel last weekend, which we'd been planning for a while and really looking forward to it. At dinner one night, my wife made a really mean comment after we started talking about the economy. She remarked, don't worry, Rachel, you can join in the conversation once the smart people are done. She was the only one that laughed. I was completely embarrassed. And once we were alone, I told my wife she had been really rude and I was ashamed of her. I told her she needs to stop making nasty comments. And she agreed. However, the next night, we all went out to a bar. Rachel was getting a lot of attention from guys there who were sending over drinks. My wife was looking visibly annoyed that she wasn't receiving the same attention, so I tried to lift her spirits by paying for all of her drinks and making a fuss of her. One guy came over and said that Rachel looked just like the model Zendaya. My wife let out a massive laugh and said, Did you mean to say Whoopi Goldberg? What? I turned to my wife and straight up said, you really are so jealous, aren't you? She looked hurt, but didn't have time to respond as Rachel had left the table in tears. I followed Matt and told Rachel directly that I was so sorry for my wife's words and that I was ashamed of her behavior. When I reunited with my wife, she told me I was horrible for calling her jealous in front of everyone and embarrassing her. I told her straight up that she was jealous of Rachel, as Rachel is more attractive than her. I realize in hindsight, this was a very heavy thing to say and can see why she would be hurt by it. However, I stand by the fact it was said in anger. Am I the asshole? This is a doozy. This is like, oh my god, this is a journey to take me on. Woman sounds horrible to be around though. of all yeah this this also wait what was their ages again um op is 36 wife is 35 his friend is 36 so all of them are around the same age and then friend's fiance is 24 rachel is 24 rachel yeah oh my god so that's another whole layer of this a little baby this whole thing get her out of there actually get rachel safe rachel needs to be marked as safe i'm like worried about her yeah i think this is tough this is very high school behavior first of all like it brings me back to just like being in friendships with people who were actually like didn't like you and this is how they acted and I guess these people aren't really friends by choice they're friends by like husband friendships or something yeah like association not your choosing yeah I don't know again like in the start of the story it was one of those situations where i was like i do think there needs to be a deeper conversation between op and his wife about this and like to have a conversation of why do you feel so insecure about rachel like you are the person that i'm married to i i love you i do i do think though at the end saying like you're jealous because she's more attractive than you oh i don't know how you come back from that either yeah it's unhealthy like you shouldn't keep bringing your wife around like you can have a relationship with your friend but like your wife is a mean girl like that's just the reality that you're dealing with and if you want to stay married to her then you're gonna have to think long and hard about the relationships you want to have with everyone else and how you want your social circle to look because your wife is a bully people are going to get to a point where they don't want her around and she is clearly insecure anyone can read this this is like reading the brown fox jumped over the log like it's rudimentary like it is so simple it doesn't make her look like smarter better more interesting it's like very clearly from anyone watching that would be like oh yeah she is jealous and insecure of this girl well and like have someone compliment her and be like you look like zendaya zendaya is gorgeous like yeah top model gorgeous beautiful and then for you to clap back and be like don't you mean whoopi goldberg first of all ma'am did you see whoopi goldberg in sister act one and two even in that nun habit whoopi was slaying fuck you fuck you i'm not as familiar with whoopi goldberg's like illustrious career but oh man but i trust i will be looking into it later whoopi's always had those cheekbones and then that little nun habit she worked it okay like and she worked it she went in a hiding but then yeah it's so sad like rachel runs away crying she's also like over a decade younger than all of these people is a fiance they've all been like probably friends for a very long time that's like married couple she's like new to the group it's just i think rachel is the most lameless one in all of this yeah i think the husband was like trying to do the right thing for a long time but but then also that last comment is like you're not an asshole like in the grand scheme of everything that's happened based on her actions yeah but I also like don't know how you come back from that comment well and I think you can call someone jealous but then you kind of went a step further and it's like you're jealous because Rachel's hotter than you yeah and it's like clearly she's insecure clearly she's struggling with well and his his original like comment on this reddit thing was about how his wife is not conventionally attractive so i do think there's probably a dynamic at play here that could be contributing to her insecurity you wonder but i don't know i mean neither of them are right i know well and i think from her point like op's friend is 36 rachel's 24 like that age gap is a big age gap it's a 12 year age gap yeah and so in her head she's like okay this is when it begins like we get replaced by hot and younger models like true i'm sure she's coming at this from just so many angles of attack but here's the thing like this girl is with your husband's best friend she's not trying to go for your husband this could be your friend like why are you being well cruel and to that for no reason if you even though it is valid to be like oh here come the younger models and like here like i'm insecure about this like then still rachel wouldn't be the subject of the anger in that situation she is the only one who was like innocent of that and if you're mad about it like make a comment to the friend about how like oh like you love younger like you know make your little snide petty comments to him he's the one bringing the young girl around yeah like she didn't do anything no top comments not the asshole aside from the way you handled it at the end she's the asshole stop bringing her around when you hang out with matt and rachel don't lie to her though just don't bring her anywhere they are going to be if she doesn't like it then oh well she doesn't get to bully people and get rewarded yeah totally i'm reading i'm hearing that comment though and i'm like are they gonna stay together like like i don't know this is crazy to just like this seems like such a difference of morals on one hand and then also such a like slap in the face at the end and it's also like now his friend has a young girlfriend and he's also like privately taking herself i don't know i just feel like there's a weird i don't know if i have a lot of hope for this relationship but i guess people get through things so i'm curious if they have like kids or what yeah like their history is how long they've been together yeah or are they you know 36 35 i know but recently got married after a year of dating like i'm so curious what the backstory is here has this happened before has there ever been something with anyone else does she have any female friends or is she a mean girl and doesn't have friends because i do think like it's hard to have a lot of friends nowadays I think like socially we just seem like really disconnected but if someone doesn't have any friends or like a woman like if they don't have any like girlfriends like I do think that's kind of a little bit of a red flag and then you have to suss it out obviously there's a lot of nuance there but it's just like if someone doesn't have close friends it's kind of like well why like do you have a history of bad behavior and treating people bad and that's why you're not close with anyone yeah it just gets you wondering like what is this guy's wife like what does she really look like outside of this like is it really just Rachel I do feel like is it everyone yeah usually in these stories we do get a moment of like I've never seen this before or on the opposite hand it would be like she has done this before with this person or that person so I would love like yeah more context on that you know OP does have an edit okay i forgot to mention that since the trip matt has messaged me to let me know that my wife is no longer welcome at their wedding and that as a couple himself and rachel have decided that they aren't interested in our friendship anymore if my wife is around wow rachel feels as if my wife has bullied her and has even suggested that some of the comments were racially motivated i was wondering that like i was wondering what the race of op and his wife were because it did feel like microaggressions like she's specifically very bothered by this woman and like all the attention that this woman is getting and it's like yeah that could be an age thing but sometimes it's also like a microaggression i mean the zendaya to you mean whoopi goldberg i I mean, that's kind of, there's a lot you can read in on that. OP ends that edit with, I am so humiliated. And then there is another edit underneath. Sorry, another edit. Just wanted to clarify. My wife is stunning. I wouldn't have married her if I didn't think she was beautiful. She is just not as conventionally attractive. To me, she is the most beautiful woman on the planet. But objectively, Rachel is better looking. I'm very open to being the asshole in this situation, but I definitely wouldn't want people to think I'm not attracted to my wife. Well, thank you for saying it, finally. I mean, I don't think. What does it even mean, though? Like, what does it even mean? Beauty is like, yes, okay, there's conventionally attractive, but beauty is so in the eye of the beholder. Yeah. I don't understand. I mean, here, I'm single, so there are some things that I don't always immediately understand. but to say like she's the most beautiful woman in the world to me but obviously very clearly rachel is hotter that's what i'm saying what does it mean like to me like that doesn't make sense dude i'm fucking and it's also like it's not a comment about like you know some random actress and like celebrity or something it's like your friend's fiancee who is one of like the people you hang out with most so it's just i honestly don't know how i'd proceed forward it's obviously a lot more complex if like they have kids and stuff like that but yeah if you're kind of starting to have like your blinders come off and see this other side of your wife like oh she's mean and maybe this is racially motivated like oh you're gonna like i'd have a tough time proceeding forward with this person and they're kind of just not nice and just yeah yeah i don't know i'm excited to hear the update on this one update thanks for the feedback guys just to add although i didn't call out my wife in public i regularly called her out in private after she made the comments the reason we continued to hang out as a group is because my wife reassured me her and Rachel got on well, and the comments were in good spirit. Matt would also continue to invite us out, so I didn't think it was too much of a problem. Also, in regards to the free drinks, Rachel accepted them for the table. We all shared the drinks and were joking around. The drinks were sent from the same two creepy guys, and it wasn't like the whole bar was buying Rachel drinks. Matt isn't insecure and would rather accept the free alcohol. haha also my wife earns more than me so we split costs 50 50 most of the time i paid for her drinks this time to make her feel better how's not gonna make her feel better before i update i also want to make it clear that i don't have feelings for rachel i think she is conventionally how many times can you be like but conventionally she is the most beautiful woman in the world that i've ever seen and anyone would agree with that but I don't but like my wife in my eyes I love her how many times can you say that that's what we get to I think she is a conventionally attractive girl and she is a model I'm not even really friends with Rachel as some of you pointed out she's younger so we don't have much in common I also want to make it clear that my wife is conventionally attractive also just less so than Rachel Rachel is a model my wife is not this doesn't mean i don't think my wife is more attractive than rachel to me i just mean objectively rachel is better looking i swear like king you have made that clear we get it you do not need to reword that for us one more time we're good yep rachel model young hot gorgeous looks like the most beautiful woman in the world everyone would say this i feel like he's just like People must have been attacking him, be like, damn, you don't even like your wife. Damn, you think your wife's ugly? And he's like, no, no, no, no, no. My wife's beautiful. I just, I'm just, she's just not, she's, she's conventionally attractive, actually, too. Yeah. Like, he's just panicked. I know. Well, because in the original, he sort of, yeah, didn't ever. Maybe his wife found the post. Right. My wife is hot, too. That's what the edit sounded like when he was like, my wife is the most beautiful woman in the world to me. I was like, did the wife find this? Blink if you're okay, King. I agree with the comment that both my wife and I were the assholes in this situation. My wife's behavior is unacceptable and mine was cruel and has probably done lasting damage to my wife's self-esteem. She was already a little wrecked, though. That's me. I don't think I'm the asshole for failing to call out my wife sooner. In my opinion, you should never publicly criticize your partner. So for me, telling her privately that the jokes were inappropriate is enough. I also want to point out my wife and I have already had couples counseling and my wife individual therapy. When I initially made the comment that Rachel is more attractive than her, my wife was furious and rightly so. She said that it was a cruel thing to say and that she wasn't jealous of Rachel and insisted that the jokes were not offensive and everyone was just tiptoeing around the pretty girl. When we returned home from the trip and I received Matt's message, I let my wife know. At first, she was hurt, but she eventually came around and said her behavior was inappropriate. She admitted that she is jealous of Rachel due to her looks and was embarrassed by her behavior. I also asked her if she felt as if I found Rachel more attractive than her, but she said she didn't think that it was that. It was just difficult seeing a younger, prettier girl get treated way better than her, and she felt like second best. I think my wife noticed Rachel getting special treatment from other people and was jealous. she didn't receive the same. My wife has sent an apology to Rachel, but I don't think the friendship is salvageable. I will still attend the wedding, but my wife won't be coming along, even if she is reinvited. I think it's worth my wife having some more therapy, and I'll have to rethink things. This has definitely made me see things in a different light, and I'm really disappointed. Thanks again, everyone, for the feedback. yeah i mean i do think it depends on the person but if you were like at a bar with two men and one other woman and the other woman was constantly getting free drinks sent to her and like you're just kind of standing there like chopped liver you would feel very insecure like it would be a shitty feeling yeah that does not make it okay to try to then tear her down and embarrass her and humiliate her in front of everybody and like it's never okay to have your reaction to bad feelings be like oh now I'm gonna like ruin someone else I'm gonna make someone else feel awful and seem awful to everyone else but I can see why she was insecure especially given how the husband was writing about it for the whole time it's just that doesn't excuse then how you act about it i don't know honestly though i think his writing is just him like almost overthinking it and then the comments being like do you even like your wife like i'm i'm curious what the comments on the original were and i'm just gonna peek because it just feels like he over explained way more than he had to and the over explaining was clearly overthinking and anxiety to me at least and then it almost like dug him in a hole and it's like I don't even know if based on this like I don't even feel like he was necessarily giving her a reason to be insecure I am curious why they went to couples therapy like what was kind of a motivating factor there yeah but she's also an individual's therapy so it's like it's kind of clear that she's dealing with insecurity or you know some other issues with confidence yeah something I mean I don't know yeah I don't know if someone being in therapy individually like automatically means that they're the one with more issues i think that like sometimes sometimes they're more aware and they're working on it which is great i feel like he mentioned her being less attractive in like the first two sentences i'm sure he didn't like noticeably like say anything to her before to make her feel that way but i think there was some kind of vibe i'm curious what everyone thinks i don't know like I'm looking at myself and like I have always had issues with like my like body image and how comfortable I feel in my own skin and my partner has never ever done anything to make me feel like I'm not beautiful like he's the only one that's made me feel good ever but I'm still insecure so it's like I'm kind of putting myself at it like from that perspective am I mean to other people that are conventionally more attractive than me no because i've done some self-work but like i still feel insecure in my own head i want to like put the power more on her in this because i do think her behavior is horrible no totally i think the reason i'm coming at from not even like her not being an asshole just saying that i think part of it also might have been there's more there that she could tell him feeling that way is because he said it to her very loudly and assuredly at the end so like i don't think it's a huge leap to be like maybe he was dropping any kind of like non-verbal hints of that before saying it because he felt that way and he said it you know what i mean yeah like it's not like it's making up that he thinks that about her he said it like four times now and said it to her face i will say a lot of people in the comments are actually like i'm not seen a lot of people say you're the asshole op actually like no i don't think he is the asshole a lot of people love that he he clapped back at her like a lot of people are like you actually should have said something in public sooner i think he should have said something but not that i think he should have said hey that's not really kind or like he should have said something that is like more conducive to making everyone feel better i don't think he needed to say the worst thing he could possibly say it's definitely a low blow but a lot of people point to it and they say not the asshole op the only person here who is not acting like a mature adult is your wife you talk to her in private and she didn't listen unfortunately sometimes people have to be called out in public in order for them to get the point jumping on here to add that the wife had no problem embarrassing rachel in public but got mad when hubby did the same to her so a lot i do think it's different between two kind of like associates versus a husband to his wife calling another woman right there more attractive i don't know the thing is like yes saying something made sense but he didn't need to say well it's because she's hotter than you that you feel this way to like i i think there's there's an in-between place here where we can meet and like yeah he says something to to kind of scold her in public and be like hey that's not okay you know that's not true she's a beautiful even just saying like you know she's a beautiful woman you don't need to tear her down if anything would be fine i feel like if he would have just said you're jealous of her yeah that's also fine that's that's still like okay there's the stop sign after that yeah because it's driving the point home or you don't need to be jealous of the attention she's getting because it's not about like it shouldn't be to him that she's hotter it should just be like okay clearly you're insecure about the way other people are treating her I just I still don't think that between spouses you need to say you're doing this because she's hotter than you yeah in an ideal world he would have just said you're jealous but like I do think it's time he said something in public like yeah hey babe not okay yeah your jealousy is showing like it's time to reprimand her in front of people i do kind of agree with that because you were saying everything in private and she wasn't getting the message and she was going to continue this forever until yeah you said something or you know rachel and her fiance op's friend said no enough is enough we don't even want to be around her and that's where we're at so now op's gotta move forward and evaluate how this goes from here and the wife has some work to do like really you like what you're just never going to be friends with like an attractive person ever in your life like i mean how many reddit stories have we had on here though where people are like my sister picked all of her bridesmaids that were less attractive friends shouldn't even ask her best friends because all of her best friends are i don't think i've heard prettier than her like people are so insecure and it's it's easy to be insecure like i'm insecure about stuff like it it's just like this little venom bug and it's just like it's hard but at the same time i think you said you had a comment where you're like just because you're dealing with something doesn't mean you can make everyone miserable because of it yeah and that's the reality it's like we all have our own issues we're all battling something but you need to address it it's not everyone else's problem and they shouldn't suffer and be made to feel like shit because you feel inadequate and less than yeah especially this poor 24 year old girl who's just trying to become friends with her fiance's friends i know and how hard would that be like i'm so curious how they met but that's besides the point in this story i know why can't like when we read a reddit story every single person involved also write their version of events yeah and then we can put it together and eat a full synopsis of the friend group, how everyone met a full timeline. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. Okay, moving on to this next one. This episode is brought to you by Credit Karma. When it comes to your money, Credit Karma keeps you ahead of the game. And you can count on Credit Karma to keep up with your financial needs as they evolve. They'll help you monitor your progress and give personalized recommendations so you can make strides towards your goals and find your way of money. Make sure you're on the right track, no matter where you are on your financial journey. Intuit Credit Karma. Karma you can count on. Okay, so this one is coming from A-I-T-A-H. It is titled, Am I the Asshole for Making My Daughter's Boyfriend Buy a New T-Shirt? Okay, can you please settle a mild dispute for my family? The 23rd of December, my daughter's, 19, boyfriend, 19, came over for dinner. We had a dinner then because he's going away with his family for Christmas. He arrived, rang the bell, and I answered the door. He came in, took off his jacket, and that's when I saw it. He was wearing a t-shirt that said, quote, it's not gonna suck itself. That is not what I was expecting. I took one look at that shirt and asked him if he had any money. He said no and asked why. I told him that that shirt showed a marked lack of respect for both my daughter and my wife. I pulled two 20s out of my wallet and quietly ushered him back out the door and towards the Walmart three miles away and told him to buy a more respectful shirt and then come back with it on Mind you this whole exchange took place between him and I without an audience He was gone for 15 minutes, came back with a nice polo shirt on. We had a nice dinner together and nothing was mentioned about the incident. The next day, my daughter came to me and her mother and told us what I did. how I humiliated him. Oh my god. They aren't in breakup territory or anything and no yelling or anything of the sort went on. My wife did tell me I could have handled it differently. So Reddit, am I wrong for handling it this way? And if so, how could I have handled it? He handled it perfectly. are you kidding this was an eloquent way yes to teach him a lesson about tact appropriateness do you have any fucking respect showing up to your girlfriend's family's house in a shirt that says it's not gonna suck itself are you kidding me in front of her parents in front yeah in front of her parents and in front of anyone i like i hate that i hate that that's so disrespectful like and you're with your girlfriend like insane i'm googling pictures of the shirt from what i can find online especially i've seen that before well given the context like this is the holidays too i'm assuming it's this one that has like a big candy cane on it and it just says it ain't gonna suck itself with like a candy cane kind of wrapped up yeah we all know what it means though right like it doesn't matter i mean it could be that one yeah i don't know it could be this lollipop version there's also one that just has the text on it and an arrow pointing down like it could be any version of that shirt they're all bad i mean like maybe it's a seasonal one sounds like this kid doesn't like potentially have the money to be just buying seasonal specific shirts in that way though i feel like i wasn't doing that when i was younger getting a christmas theme that's not gonna suck itself this is insane like there's another version of it with like a guy in a sombrero doing a dab with a tequila lime shot thing in his hand like it's just either way it's a reference to suck my dick and you are at your daughter's family's house and i am shocked that the daughter and the mom are both like oh you could have handled it better Like what? He could have been way worse. I would have punched him in the face. You come with my child in tow, wearing a shirt that says it's not going to suck itself. I am beating your ass. I am. Like you're leaving with bruises. Like I don't understand. What the fuck do you think you are? I don't understand in what world he ever thought that would be appropriate. Have some respect for my child. This is. Also, how old are they again? Like 17? They're not even. 19. Okay. well still that's teenagers first year of college even if your kids are out of the house old enough to be sexually active like i feel like it's not one of those things you want to they could be 35 and it's still inappropriate and disrespectful dude it's so it's so interesting and this is like a conversation that's come up a lot lately when people like start trying to get pregnant they're like yeah we're you know we're actively trying and like they have these like intense conversation yeah it's like so you're coming inside yeah it's like okay thanks great uh-huh it's like okay everyone be mature but it's like i know it's just not my ideal vision and this is this is much worse i also just feel like how much could he care about and respect his partner if he like looked at himself in the mirror and didn't even think oh this might come off as disrespectful or like oh i want to i want to make a good impression on her parents you know what i mean like when my parents met my last boyfriend after he left they were like yeah it was good he seemed he seemed nervous which made us feel better because it showed he cared and like you know like all of those things it's like there are things that people do if they really value the person there with and i don't know weren't that stressed on so many levels the dad could have done worse and i support him in all future endeavors i think he did great he didn't even mention the incident yeah he kept it discreet he was gone he went to walmart 15 minutes away there and back he's prim and proper like this is a win-win and then he'll think twice because it wasn't appropriate it this was you going to your girlfriend's house and celebrating christmas with her family yeah put a nice shirt on like you're showing a lack of respect for your girlfriend her body your girlfriend's family and he could have worn like probably the most raggedy shirt as long as it didn't say something sexually offensive about their daughter yeah you know like it's not even about it being a nice he should have worn just a nice shirt but it's not even about it being a nice shirt or not it's about what it said it's the message yeah top comment you were very classy about it and even gave him the opportunity to get a new shirt instead of just going home and changing not the asshole next comment and paid for the new shirt kid probably spent 15 on the shirt so he's probably up 25 too yeah yeah giving him 40 for a shirt at walmart he's got change i hope he gave him the change he probably pocketed it asshole i was actually i did some angel tree shopping at Walmart this year. I didn't know you could take the angel tree things and go to other stores. So I just did it there. But like, especially if you've got a little kid, kids go through clothes so quickly. Their clothes, kids' clothes prices were so good. Yeah. No, children's clothes prices are very affordable. And they're cute. Yeah. It's nice because I do have like a niece and a nephew and I've been getting them stuff. And some of it is more, but it's such little fabric compared to adult clothes so it's like able to be I know less expensive I had a good time I love shopping and I know everyone like it's like I get confused where you can and can't shop these days I love shopping so drop any good racks not that I need baby clothes my mom's got all my baby clothes in bins so I'm hopefully not gonna have to buy anything um okay we do get an edit oh wait oh my god I forgot it us the updates episode. This is my Christmas. I'm 57 and a long haul truck driver. So I've had my share of bad moments. Most of us guys here can remember stupid things that we did as a teen, even into our 20s. The one that stands out for me are the ones where someone didn't react with anger or malice. They were the ones that someone reacted with constructive kindness. One where a quiet redemption was offered, where a mirror was quietly held up to my behavior. those are the ones i learned from and appreciated the most hopefully he comes out the other side with a new appreciation for kindness offered quietly and without fanfare just my thoughts i mean that's all nice to say but i do think the boyfriend's reaction to all of it and like complaining to the girlfriend in private kind of shows that he like isn't taking this in a way that makes me feel hopeful that this was a moment for change i mean like he needed a kick in the butt but I don't know if he heard it you know what I mean we get more updates that was just the edit oh oh okay that was the edit so update one after reading these comments and listening to everyone's point of view I sat my daughter down this morning and asked what her boyfriend actually said to her this changes my opinion of him too apparently he had not told my daughter what the phrase was on the shirt, but did tell her accurately what I said to him and asked him to do. He didn't use the word humiliated. That was my daughter's interpretation. Her rush to defend him came from our examples. Apparently, she took notes of times I've defended my wife and vice versa. She also took note of our disagreements in private after the fact. She's going to talk to him when he gets back tomorrow to follow up on why he thought the shirt was appropriate for a family setting. I'll update again after that conversation. Okay, this explains so much because I was so confused why the daughter and the wife were like coming at him with that energy. And now it's like, oh, he didn't tell her what the shirt said, which is the whole context of, hey, your dad made me go to Walmart to go get a new shirt. What was up with that? He humiliated me. What was on your shirt? why would he make you change yeah and him not saying that shows he knows there's a problem with it uh-huh so like what are we doing update two my daughter called him about an hour ago and this will be informative she asked him why he had not told her what the shirt said when he talked to her his reply was telling quote because it was embarrassing right so now why are you trying to like oh my god you could have just skirted by this incident then if you hadn't brought the dad into it like this then she went on to ask him why he wore it originally and he admitted that the shirt had been a gift from his older brother 21 and that the older brother had dared him to and called him a chicken when he objected dumb sibling crap apparently. She went on to tell him that none of what he'd done was cool and that she really liked him and that he had always been kind to her. She said she wasn't breaking up with him, but that these steps needed to be done. First, he needed to explain to his parents the entire situation. Second, he needed to show up in person to our home and bring the money for the shirt and, as she put it, put in a whole ass-kissing session that included the explanation of the dare, etc. she said that if this was handled well they could talk about moving forward and what that looked like after the phone call she talked to her mom and i and admitted that she forgot her worth she said that i as long as she had been alive had never gone out of my way to embarrass her mom and that i had always been respectful and not let anyone be disrespectful to her mom that made me feel good so she wasn't going to settle for less good for her i'll update after his visit later tomorrow afternoon good for her putting down those rules i love it the oh my god my brother dared me and said i'd be a chicken say okay then i'm a chicken asshole i don't want to disrespect my girlfriend in front of her parents or you wear it out of the house and then change in your car but also just like doing a dare to not be called a chicken makes you a chicken like that makes you a bitch like are you kidding you can't handle your brother being like oh you're a chicken stand up for something be a man yeah update three oh this will make most of you following this saga laugh i received a call this evening from mr boyfriend's parents firstly they are mortified and extremely apologetic also i feel like these kids are still in high school like with the parents being involved. I know, but 19 is really young. They could be seniors in high school and just old for their grade. They could be or like going to a community college or living at home, still living at home. Yeah, like a nearby college. True, very true. Secondly, and the whole best part of this update, I have their permission to squeal, is that his parents are on Reddit and commented on my post in support of the way i handled the situation you're kidding they told me that they love my daughter and that we had raised her right and had not raised their sons to show this level of disrespect for anyone let alone his girlfriend apparently boyfriend was following up on one of my daughter's conditions and went to talk to his parents as the story unfolded his mom reached for her phone opened reddit and yelled is this about fucking you to quote his dad quote as the son read the first half paragraph he died a little inside so anyways they are going to come to dinner tomorrow evening with boyfriend more updates tomorrow night that's great this is very vindicating i'll tell you because in the original post i was like why is everyone saying that the dad was wrong but once they heard the actual story it sounds like every single person including the kid's parents are like you were right yeah yeah yeah no this is good update four dinner was very pleasant let me say that his parents are great boyfriend showed up with red roses for my daughter and yellow roses for my wife he offered what i thought was a very sincere apology and a card with the entire 40 in it, even though he'd given me the change and receipt on the original night. I cooked tonight to give my wife a break. I made an Indian dish called butter chicken with basmati rice. Neither had eaten curry before, but loved it. Woohoo! As it turns out, older brother is the family athlete, JV soccer, varsity soccer, and sports scholarship for soccer, the quintessential jock. Little brother is the exact opposite, artistic. He's got real talent, sensitive, quiet, and felt like he never measured up to Big Brother and works to gain Big Brother's respect. Brother takes full advantage of this and exploits his little brother for shits and giggles. Near the end of dinner, daughter says, I think I'll keep him around for a little longer. You guys okay with that? We are good with that for now. His mom is the boss, though, for thinking outside the box. As punishment to older brother, mom went into his clothing drawers and closet took every shirt off of him and bought him eight very bright pink t-shirts that he'll wear until he realizes just how damaging exploiting someone anyone is his access to cash is also cut off until the lesson is learned wait how old are they i keep getting so confused older brother's 21 oh oh she's they're cutting off the older one okay pink shirts i was no cash i was cut off at what i was living my life at 21 but okay sure right yeah again take whatever you will anyways a successful night with new friends was enjoyed hope this was the update you hoped for yeah i mean listen i'm open to to change just it looks like the you know if everything works out from here their families have a great relationship that's always fun it's nice that yeah he was vindicated on all sides yeah this way i think so too and it's kind of nice like brother older brothers getting a taste of his own medicine like someone on the best of redditor update comments oh what a delicious punishment for the older brother i know plenty of guys who could have confidently rocked pink but if his mom specifically chose it you know it's going to hurt him yeah and he's probably in college like he's getting a ride or whatever for soccer in college but i'm sure mom and dad are still sending him money for everything else can wear pink in college and everyone's like oh that's so cool that you're doing that bro like i i frack guys they're wearing the hell out of salmon are you kidding me they love pink they love fucking salmon pink shirts but his mama knows left right center she said my son don't rock pink yeah and now he's got eight t-shirts that's all he's got is pink yeah it's sort of like it's a good punishment but it's really not like that like terrible yeah no no i mean it could have been worse for him but all around everyone wins lessons were learned lessons were learned showing up with the flowers after that's so funny i mean it's clearly his parents money it's really it's cute though like yeah sure of course I mean I remember I don't know I started working really young I was like 15 when I got my first job at Perkins and so like I I bought everything with my own money high school college like I had some help with rent here and there but I don't know I just feel like he's using his parents money because they're talking about cutting off their 21 year old son true so I just like I don't think these kids are yeah I don't know it doesn't sound like anyone has a job i mean you didn't have money to go buy the new shirt in the first place but i like it i think um this is a happy ending by totally no i mean yeah it's a happy ending happy for all of them you know stay on track stay the course follow the lessons your parents have given you don't follow the lessons of that older brother and i hope the older brother also you know like why are you messing with your younger brother like that why are you setting him up older siblings are mean yeah i got tortured my brother hated me my older siblings were pretty nice to me i didn't get that experience i did not get that okay moving on to this next one this is a weird one could be a little scary i don't know okay i don't know this third story is coming from r slash relationship advice just posted about a week ago, a little less, six days ago. Wow. It is titled, I hope, you know, I hope that the personal trainer is objectively hotter than the husband. Conventionally more attractive. we've been together for 15 years married for 10 in that time she's always done something fitness wise be it running or the gym or cycling about a year ago she decided she wanted to be stronger she started doing weights at the gym and she was getting there but around four months ago she said she needed some guidance and started doing sessions with one of the gym's personal trainers she was really enjoying it and about a month ago she upped it from two sessions a week to three. There has been a noticeable change in her strength, and I was happy for her as she seemed really proud of herself. Then this weekend, she dropped a bombshell on me. I had noticed our sex life had pretty much come to a stop a couple of months ago, and I spoke to her about it, and she said that she was sorry. It was just the stress of starting a new job mixed with the cold weather, and she just wasn't in the mood. I thought that was fair enough, and I'd leave it at that and let her lead the pace when she was ready to again. Well, this weekend she told me that she has developed a very intense crush on her personal trainer and that while she knows crushes happen in relationships, this feels like it's more. She said she finds herself constantly seeking his attention either at the gym or on social media. She has started tagging him in all of her posts, but I just assumed it was more of a giving credit thing. Then she admitted she has started wearing less and less at the gym to get his attention, which is something I hadn't noticed as she always takes a gym bag with her and gets changed there. She admitted that the last few times we had sex, she fantasized that it was him and that's why she stopped having sex as she felt too guilty. probably the worst thing she told me was that a few days ago she saw him having a personal session with someone else a younger woman more his age and she saw them laughing together and that she got jealous and upset and she had to leave the gym and go cry in her car she said he has done nothing to encourage this and has been nothing but professional throughout all of this and he is not at fault. I don't know what to do. I'm crushed. Do I sit back and wait for the crush to stop? Do I demand she changes gyms and blocks this guy? We've all had crushes in relationships, and eventually they go, but I feel like this one won't. She's being alone with him three times a week and follows him on all of her social media accounts. I feel like distance is how you get over this but i don't want to come across as controlling what do you think she doesn't want to change anything and thinks it will just go away on its own can i ask you something do you think that there's a time when like that is too honest like the details she was giving him like it kept going it kept going and like i actually don't think you need to tell him you're thinking of him when you're having sex with him like maybe it made her feel better to get this all off her chest but i don't think it actually helps him to know all that i think no like obviously you do have to be honest to an extent of like but you could just really be basic about it and be like i have had feelings for my trainer and i'm very her being like and i've been trying to dress slutty too like why do you need to tell him that yeah the last time we had sex i was envisioning fucking him and hoping he would get me off but it was you and I just felt so guilty about envisioning him so that's why I stopped fucking you and then I saw him laughing with someone and I went to the car and cried that's delusional like what why are you telling all of this to him because it makes her feel better it's just gonna make him feel worse yeah and I think a lot of times you need to ask yourself that like when you're sharing information with people or apologizing or being honest, is it for you or them? Like, you can be honest, but like to an extent, right? Like, honey, I just, I feel guilty about this crush I have on my trainer at the gym. Yeah. I think I need to change gyms. Yes. Yeah. Because I was going to say, like, if you have a crush on someone, but technically like haven't actually done anything, like at that point, do you say something? If you genuinely think it's going to pass and you're not going to act on it and nothing's gonna like I don't know what the right thing to do is in that in that situation I don't know either like even now I mean obviously these two have been together for 15 years married for 10 right I've been with Justin for seven but like I don't have co-workers I don't have workplace crushes yeah like I haven't I haven't had a crush yeah but like I feel like we both have crushes on the same people like oddly where we're like oh that tv announcer we love him he's so great he's so cute it's different it's different like i don't have a crush on someone i don't think in my last two they were very like a lot shorter than a marriage but like in my last two relationships there wasn't a point where i had a crush on someone else either i feel like for me a crush when i'm in a relationship is just like oh i think you're cute in like a teddy bear way like i don't find you physically attractive but i haven't had that type of crush yet. If I did have this type of crush, I'm a very solution-based person. I would be in my head, this isn't good. I'm not healthy in the way I'm feeling. This isn't right. I'm going to switch gyms. This could ruin my life. I'm going to remove myself from this. I love my husband. This clearly isn't healthy for me. Going in my car and crying because I saw him laughing with someone else. No, that's crazy. I need to go talk to someone. That's not good. But would I mention it to my partner it's interesting because it feels like almost like was she telling him this for permission to be like you should explore babe let's open the relationship like i don't know i guess like i don't know like are there any of you out there that you you would share this with your your partner and be like i have this intense crush i'm crying when i see him with other people I don't think one or the other is like right or wrong. I think like either option could be right in both situations. Like I think it could be right to just move jams, never say anything. And I think it also could be right in another relationship to be like, I just wanted you to know I was feeling this way and I knew it was wrong and I value our relationship more. So I stopped seeing this person. I don't know. It's interesting because OP also said we've all had crushes in all of our relationships or whatever so it sounds like maybe he also has had a crush but i don't think it would ever have been to like the extent that he's talking about in this situation no and like even if you did have a crush like it's a crush is like more innocent like it doesn't mean you see that person with someone else more deep yeah and you're so emotionally torn up about it you have to leave to go cry privately you're married not to that person like if you saw your husband flirting with someone else okay but like i will damn this has gone too far i will say when he is writing in this i'm wondering if it's even up to him at this point it almost sounds like she's trying to leave him that's what i'm like why he's like what should i do and i'm like how many options do you have like does she even still want to be in this relationship or was that like a goodbye it almost sounded like a goodbye goodbye or like she's trying to test the waters of like opening yeah things up i haven't read the update for this one i have no idea what we're about to encounter i'm just like i'm blown away because i i i totally agree it's like you don't really have an option besides setting a boundary and being like i would appreciate it if you switch gyms yeah but at the end of the day if she doesn't want to switch gyms you can't control her and then you have to say i'm uncomfortable with this let's go to couples counseling let's move towards separation because clearly something's up yeah and if you're going to keep seeing someone that you have said you have this extremely intense crush on then that is not valuing the commitment to our marriage over this other thing 100 so i'm so curious top comment on this one, crying in her car because he talked to another client. That sounds like a lot more than just a crush. Someone responds and they go, sounds like limerence. When a crush crosses over into unhealthy obsession territory, it usually isn't about the person. It's a coping mechanism in order to fill a deficit, so to speak, in her own life through someone else. That makes a lot of sense to me because even hearing that i was like i don't think she would even feel that way if she saw her husband like laughing with a co-worker you know so this just feels like it just doesn't feel like real almost yeah and i don't totally i think it's totally one-sided oh of course like i i mean maybe he'd have sex with her but i don't or she's just lying about it being one-sided and there is something more going on but she doesn't want to tell him everything else it's It's so weird. It's so odd. I did click because the person in that comment about limerence linked another subreddit. And there is a subreddit for limerence support and information. Apparently, it's a term invented by psychologist Dorthory Tenov. And it's from her book, Love and Limerence. It describes the state of being madly in love or intensely infatuated when reciprocation is uncertain. Yes. Okay. I was going to say, I tweeted this once. I was like, I wish someone would love me the way people on Catfish love strangers that won't video chat with them. And it's such a thing of like this intense obsession where it's like you wouldn't even feel that way about someone you had an actual, healthy, perfect, incredible relationship with. And it's like the fantasy of it all. And I absolutely think that that might be what's at play here. I don't think like the reality of a relationship with anybody would really be as intense as what you're making it out to be like in your mind. But then where does that leave the person that's actually in a relationship with you? So I don't know. The third wheel. Yeah. Like the third wheel to your unhealthy obsession. Yeah. And your infatuation with a reality that doesn't exist. OP has an edit on the original post. Okay. Thank you all for the replies. There's too many to keep up with. I spoke to her last night and got a bit more information and then went and spoke to him and got some more. The drama. He has done nothing wrong. I'll post an update after work tonight. Oh, I'm seated. He spoke to him? Yeah. Wait, I feel like something must have, I don't know, like she must have tried something in order for him to have gone and talked to him. Or he just wanted to know the truth from his perspective. Right. because what she's saying is a little oh my god out there so the update comes three days later okay so that's like three days ago three days it came on the 24th yeah wow three days ago so i spoke to my wife the night after my original post i said she needs to leave her personal trainer quit that gym and we need to start going to couples counseling she wasn't happy and started arguing, saying it's only a crush and it'll pass, and she's making good progress, and then started to frame it as me not caring about her health. Once she realized I wasn't budging, she started trying to bargain with me and saying, what if she stopped seeing the personal trainer? Could she still go to the gym? And if she started having sex with me again, we don't need couples counseling. I lost my temper at this point, I admit, and I shouted, enough. I want to know everything. Tell me everything you've done. I want to read your messages with him. I want to see these outfits you are wearing. I need to know everything now. She said fine and stormed off upstairs. She came back down wearing an outfit that was a bit much, to be fair, for the gym in a cold country. But I didn't say anything. And I asked to see her phone. Putting on the outfit and coming back downstairs is so funny. Like I'm picturing her just like storming down in this like. It's a fashion show okay she said she deleted the messages oh of course when i asked why she was honest and said she sent him a topless selfie on christmas day when i was downstairs cooking the dinner for her bloody family oh that just escalated so much she then said that while she's confessing she also kissed another man on a night out in the first year of our relationship oh my god 15 fucking years ago this lady's just like here let's just yeah let's get it all out yeah i already knew this because her friend who fancied me at the time told me about it I asked her why him and not me What he got that I haven She said nothing And it was more about the situation than him She said she's starting to feel a regret and like she missed out on her youth. She had a boyfriend from school to her early 20s, was single for a year and then met me. She said she started to regret not having more fun and she's starting to enjoy attention from other men more and more especially younger men so this is just a midlife crisis but for a woman when she was telling me originally she said a couple of times quote i'm not planning on doing anything it's just a fantasy unless you want me to do something wait you were right with a nervous laughter and at the time it felt a bit like she wanted to do something but was trying to frame it as my idea but I never really clicked properly. I asked her if when she told me she was expecting me to give her permission and she said she genuinely thought because I don't get jealous I would be okay with it. I fucking knew it. I still feel like I wasn't being given everything though. The outfit and the kiss confession felt like distractions and something was missing. Even telling me about all of this in the first place felt a bit like she was trying to get her story in before someone else told me. I said, I'm going for a drive. And then I went to the gym to speak to her personal trainer. I approached him and said, I'm not here for trouble. I understand my wife has been harassing you. He wasn't happy being approached this way, which I get. But he asked me who my wife was. And when I told him, he's like, there's a few. He said he knew something like this was going to happen. He told me that he hadn't trained her since Christmas as he let her go after she had been sending pictures. Oh, plural, plural, plural, not just the one she told me about. He said since then she had kept messaging, but he ignored her. He let me read the messages and she had sent 12 pictures over a three-month period. One was fully naked, and when he told her not to send them, she said she was just showing her progress. The worst part was that she was messaging him stuff like, quote, we've had another argument, could really do with a session to burn off some anger, and, quote, he's out drinking with his friends, again ignoring me. I'm so lonely. Neither of which are true. And then she told him mid-December that she had kicked me out and we were divorcing. With the Christmas Day picture, she even said, quote, first Christmas alone. This girl's crazy. And just last week, she messaged him saying, I was already seeing someone else. I thanked him and asked him to send me them and I went home. When I got home, she was already gone and just wrote me a note saying sorry. She's at her friend's house and we've been texting a bit the last couple of days and have a marriage counselor booked for next week, but I think it's done. I'm not even that bothered about the pictures or the flirting or the outfit. The lying about me and our marital status. I don't drink and we haven't argued in years. I'm downstairs entertaining her family while she's sending nudes. She's never sent me one and telling him she's alone. I'm working all this weekend to try and keep my mind busy. Sorry if I don't reply quick enough and thank you to everyone who took the time to read and reply to my last post i have so many thoughts and may i start with okay so now it does make sense that she was over sharing so much in the beginning because actually there was so much more that's why i'm like for what like yeah why do you feel so guilty if it's just a little crush yeah like why would you tell him every single like thought you've had that like hasn't been acted on but it's because she was overcompensating with those details to cover like the bigger details it was almost like a magician yeah like like look over here not over here it's over here it's yep right here i feel like i mean and then yeah him saying like i wasn't even bothered by the news i was like i guess she's right about him not being a very jealous person like i'm so confused but like she was like sexually harassing this guy yeah no that is horrible getting unsolicited nudes from someone it's just my progress pictures especially a client like you're trying to keep it so professional this is your job and then now you're getting harassed through your work and she's like obsessed with him yeah that limerence that's a new one i think that that comment was very illuminating yeah i was gonna say illuminative but i was like there's no way that's you can make up a word illuminating yeah i mean that's crazy i just i don't know how also you would like look at the messages of your wife sending to someone else like unanswered like desperate for them and then like not feel like they were settling with you or like i don't know it would just be like an ick also yeah like like you were sexually harassing this man and he is not interested in you like this is icky no and like the thing is with her this guy kept it really professional he was not interested but she was actively trying to that's the thing that's the thing if he would have said yes she's been having an affair for months yeah i mean my friend's boyfriend tried to cheat on her but the girl he tried to cheat with replied no and then it's like well i didn't cheat babe it's like yeah but that's you tried you tried it's because the other so why do i want to now and her like also bringing up the kiss from 15 years ago honestly i bet it felt good as fuck to finally say that like jesus christ holding on to that for 15 years it's interesting because he almost seems like not 100 sure it's over i know he had that little comment at the end like i'm pretty sure it's over but sometimes like sometimes people get pulled back in after like a we've been texting again and we've been talking especially if he's already not a very jealous person in general and the only thing that bothers him is her lying about their marriage and their marriage which was crazy by the way oh he's drunk again with his friends like you're slandering his name he's already with another woman like the drama of this girl also like i just can't even imagine this text ma'am first christmas alone yes here's my tits what i don't know like it's crazy the first couple nudes didn't work you think number 12 on Christmas with a sad caption also I definitely have regrets about like having a boyfriend in college but like I've I fully enjoyed my my 20s like my early 20s and dating and getting out there I'm so thankful for that but like her coming at this perspective of like I feel like I missed out it's like well yeah I feel like a lot of people say that though like I feel like we hear about a lot that then like how do you combat those feelings if you're married you have kids and now you're looking back at your life and you're like damn i missed out like why do you feel like you need to resort to like unhealthy habits and cheating why can't you be like hey i'm gonna go on a girl's trip to i don't know vegas or cancun or wherever you want to go and like have a good girl's trip why do you ruin your life when i was like 15 16 years old i dabbled in some emotional cheating. Okay. And let me just be honest about that, because I was very, very insecure at the time. And like, it just meant so much to me that like, someone cared about me in that way. And then I grew up a little bit, stopped feeling insecure, hadn't done that in any relationship after that. And I'm almost wondering if like, if it's this level of like, security versus insecurity and it like feeling better at certain points in your life like because you're not feeling your best to then get that outside attention because you don't have as much of it like internally yeah i don't know like that's just kind of my guess with how this like trends sometimes with like people's aging and stuff yeah but it's just like this is an extreme like i mean you don't have to harass someone like this about it no we do have one final edit from op Thank you all for all of the replies. I really do appreciate it. There's been so many. I just can't keep up. Thank you to the people who have DM'd me as well. I really appreciate it. I've decided to not bother with marriage counseling and just start divorce proceedings this week. Wow. Life really can turn upside in a week. I never thought I'd be single again, but here we are. And I mean, like, you know, who's not going to be waiting for her when those divorce papers are signed the personal trainer no he's gonna get a restraining order i yeah i mean that's insane i know like insane she really needs to go to therapy and get some help and just i mean she yeah she isn't fit to be in a relationship or a marriage right now like this is really the best thing for both of them i don't think like what even if you were to work on the marriage and like try to stay together is that is that feeling she's having going to go away no and all of a sudden she's going to be like so fulfilled by this relationship and not want to like cheat on you anymore no and someone does point out here like like wait your wife started arguing with you about leaving a personal trainer but he had already fired her as a client she was arguing to get to stay just to keep harassing him she's a troubled person please protect yourself and op replies and says as soon as she said she'll stop going to him but still use the gym it flicked an alarm in my head that something wasn't right and that to me is like yeah she doesn't even need to talk to him she just wants to see him from afar what does that sound like a stalker it's very joe from you she's just giving really mentally unhealthy right now and yeah i get a midlife crisis i don't know like i i can see how it happens but like you had a really seemingly great supportive husband and you need to now like kind of scale back get some help maybe you find yourself go eat pray love go i don't know but like don't sexually harass people that are just trying to do their job leave that jim leave that man alone also like just a quick aside the fact that when the husband came he was like which wife is yours and didn't immediately know for sure is kind of crazy given all the context that we know now well she's probably never been like this is my husband this is a picture of him this is me and him like i know but you would hope that that's the only wife of someone that like he would imagine would come to him that way you know honestly i wonder if that's a job like where you deal with a lot of like inappropriate behaviors from i don't know my trainers have always been inappropriate to me yeah what the hell but maybe i don't know someone let me know moving on to this next one did we have the siblings but our cousins or no what was that story we just had yes and like please don't do another incest story with me like i really like i hate them literally their mothers were twins so this one um i let my stepsister move into my apartment and now she's trying to seduce me no not that one why is it every single one's about a girl this episode i know we've had a lot of like bad women am i the asshole for refusing to attend my best friend's engagement party after she uninvited my husband i'm interested okay this is coming from a it a h titled, Am I the Asshole for Refusing to Attend My Best Friend's Engagement Party After She Uninvited My Husband? I, 30 female, never expected my best friend's engagement to end our friendship, but that's what happened. We've been close for years. A few months before her engagement party, she asked me not to bring my baby. I agreed. I understood her reasons. Then, about a week before the party, she told me not to bring my husband. Her reasoning was that if I came with him, other guests would ask why I was allowed to bring my husband while they weren't. The problem is some of our male friends were invited. My husband and I have been together for 10 years. We're married and he isn't a stranger to anyone. He's known her for years. We're a friend group. We've spent entire days together, had game nights with mutual friends, and everyone knows us as a couple. I didn't argue or create a scene. I simply told her I wasn't comfortable attending an event celebrating her relationship while being asked to exclude mine. So I didn't go. The reaction was extreme. She accused me of being passive aggressive, sent long messages listing every good thing she had done for me, and told me to forget she ever existed. She ignored my attempts to discuss it. Later, I learned that other babies had been at the party, despite her rule for mine months earlier. Eventually, she sent a crying voice note saying that she was hurt and that she waited for me to come to her party. I never insulted her. I didn't retaliate. I just didn't attend the party. I simply stayed home because I refused to exclude my husband so am i the asshole i kind of like i just i wish i could hear both sides like why i don't know it is weird that she allowed other babies and didn't allow her baby yeah what do you have what do you what beef do you have my baby now why is the baby in it like keep my baby's name out of your mouth but like i don't know i would be interested i mean i think the thing is I tend to agree with like the person getting married on if there are certain people they don't want at the wedding like that's sort of or at like a certain party that's a smaller group of people like that could be really hard I tend to think like they should be able to do whatever they want and I think you know if that's a friend group you're probably fine going without your husband and it is a pretty big statement to like just not go but I don't know like I don't know what like what the reasoning was about the husband like is there some secret beef is there like behavior that he does when he's drunk like or is it just a personal vendetta i'm i'm confused by it what do you think i'm curious it doesn't seem like there's any behavior but like you know it's reddit op could be an unreliable narrator to me though given like here's all the good things i did for you but I could forget I ever existed it it just seems like such an insane hurt reaction like she seems really hurt and yeah I don't know why my mind goes here I don't dude I don't know what shows I've been watching heated rivalries about it you think this is toxic Yuri or like I don't know like tell me lies or like I don't know I'm like is she in love with her friend and it's like don't bring your baby because i don't want you to pay attention to your baby i want you to pay attention to me and don't bring your husband because you should be paying attention to me because you're my friend and i love you and you love me so you can't have anyone else like you should just be just be focusing on me interesting i don't know why i'm going here you should write fan fiction like maybe like honestly that'd be a great story and it would i hope that that is what it is because like maybe they'll end up together and it'll be great but i do i get that i think i kind of came to that conclusion because of the voicemail like she calls and leaves her voicemail like i was waiting for you to come to my party that almost told her forget you ever existed that almost to me sounds more like manipulation of like trying to make someone feel bad oh it's but emotional can i also say like there are things like um she wrote a list of every good thing she's ever done for me that's a certain thing where it sounds really bad but then i could also see from her the other girl's side that she just wrote like you know I showed up for your party even though blah blah blah or I did and like we I did this and it could have actually been more normal than the way that it was written by OP yeah so that's one of those things where I try to like I try to think from the other person's perspective of like is there a way that this could be like turned into more of a negative than it actually was intended to be but yeah I'm I'm curious about like i just wish that they would give us some look into like what the reasons could be and maybe there's no reason because it's because they're in love my one like info question would be info is this only a girlfriend's engagement party or is yeah her fiance and all of his friends going to be there as well right because if that's the case then it's kind of weird but I understand if it's like oh no this is just like an engagement party for her and so it's only her girlfriend yeah and then it's like I I can't go anywhere without my husband like people have those types of friends too where they're like damn can't we just have a girls night you don't bring your boyfriend yeah I yeah my first question would be like so why could so-and-so and so-and-so and so-and-so's baby come but that wasn't like what you were comfortable with for me what's wrong with my baby yeah what's wrong with my baby it always comes back to the baby like what's going on like why isn't the baby invited ah so op does have an edit on the original post people seem to think she only invited me and not my husband that's not true she invited him from the start oh she discussed the party with us telling us where when and who she was going to invite and even said quote i want you guys to be there my favorite couple then a week before the event she suddenly asked me to uninvite him without even telling him herself what is the drama like what happens like what's the drama did he send her a nude did he send her a top plus photo saying first christmas alone what happened what happened top comment on the post sometimes relationships don't end they are just complete sorry this happened to you but this relationship is complete I actually really like looking at it that way versus like a friendship ended like no no no like the relationship just finished its cycle yeah no that is that is a nice way of looking at it no bad blood we're just we're complete we're good I just I would love more context on this I hate it when they don't tell us like this happened and maybe it's about this or like this is the reason they gave or I don't know I'm so give me more I know someone comments and OP actually responds to it someone goes I'm curious were there other single guys around she might think fit better with you weird um and OP responds no that wouldn't be appropriate since I'm married and just had a baby. Yeah, I do think sometimes comments are on something and other times they're projecting a very specific situation that happened to them. You know what I mean? Someone goes, if other babies were there, were other spouses? Try to understand why you were targeted. I would go nuclear in a friend group that you didn't attend because she excluded both you and your baby and spouse. Have her explain herself to the group. Yeah. OP responds, yes, there were other spouses. She just excluded my husband. And like on its surface, I'm saying that's fucked up, but I'd love to know if there's a reason. Like you're telling me it's completely out of nowhere? Like what's what is the cause? I know someone goes, wait, so other babies and other spouses were invited. Girl, it sounds like she's just jealous of you and where you're at in life. If she's choosing to only single your husband and baby out, move on and never acknowledge her again. it isn't worth it not the asshole i mean sure yeah i think you could end any situation that you have negatively with someone by saying you know what i think they're just jealous of me i mean a lot of cases like today it's been quite true in a few of our stories today yeah yeah actually but yeah there's been a lot of jealousy update what okay i want i need to know more i need to know more tell me that i'll know more i have no idea what we're about to encounter okay A lot has happened since my original post, so this is a real update rather than a clarification. After taking some space, I reached out to address the situation directly. I explained my perspective and the reason behind my decision, particularly being put in a position where I was expected to attend an event while my husband was deliberately excluded. My intention was to be clear and honest, not confrontational. The conversation made it clear that there was no willingness to acknowledge how her actions affected me or to take responsibility for the situation. At that point, I chose to block her and cut contact completely. It was not an impulsive decision or done out of anger. It was a boundary. What happened next is what truly solidified my choice. I found out that within our shared friend group, a very different narrative had been circulating. Several people believed I did not want to attend because I was jealous, which felt both inaccurate and insulting. My decision had nothing to do with envy and everything to do with principle and self-respect. Because of that, I explained the situation clearly to our friend group, so there would be no confusion. I was not trying to turn anyone against her. I simply refused to let a false narrative define my actions. with some distance i can now see that this friendship had unhealthy patterns long before this incident including emotional pressure and a lack of respect for boundaries the situation was not the cause of the breakdown it was the breaking point i have accepted that this friendship is over i stood by my partner i protected my family and i chose to walk away rather than continue a dynamic that no longer felt healthy or respectful thank you to everyone who offered perspective on my original post the feedback helped me understand that choosing distance is not cruelty it is self-respect okay all right a little dramatic i protected my family okay you come for my baby we're done right okay i'd be pissed yeah no and it's weird that she's now going around being like she's jealous of me i know i also just so funny like off the back of the reddit comments is like they're telling her she's jealous of her now in this one they're like she's jealous of her who's jealous of who are they just jealous of each other because they're in love kiss each other already i'm on board i'm on board i'm on board unhealthy emotional boundaries yeah or whatever got said like yep sounds like a very intense homoerotic friendship to me i don't know why i came to that but it's still i'm like i yeah i don't know i just like i'm confused i'm confused that like the friend's way of excusing it was just saying she was jealous of her instead of like saying oh i didn't want her husband there because he's xyz or he's creepy or oh we hit capacity i don't know it's just like confusing to me it feels like there was something that happened between them. I honestly feel like this is just a situation where the one girl who's now engaged and about to be married is just kind of competing with her friend. And even if it's like a one-sided competition, like have you, I don't know, I've had a friendship where I felt like I was just trying to be a good friend and be her friend. And I loved her. And like, I looked at her like a sister, but we had like a big fight and she was like, I feel like you're always competing with me and I was like I'm not competing with you at all like we're friends and hearing that it felt like a projection it felt like she always had to compete with me and I didn't get it like I I didn't understand it and so I feel like that's this like it feels like they're almost frenemies yeah I had I didn't have like this I had like friends in college like makeup mean embarrassing things about me to the guys they were dating but it never bothered me because i was like that's so weird i was like if you want that man to see me as less like desirable that's your but that's weird i know in hindsight in hindsight i'm like all right it was probably wasn't good but i just you don't want to cheat on me with my friend michaela because she's she's disgusting thing and like what what dude i was like i don't really care what he thinks about me so if that's what they gotta do to keep then can some oh my god i can't talk i'm so flustered can some psychologists chime in like how do you make sure that you just raise like strong secure kids like how do you like you know what i mean because like being insecure sucks like how do we raised i just feel like it's so unavoidable like at least in certain parts of your life especially yeah and it's like you're you're pit against each other and like why i don't i just want to be friends with everyone and hopefully that's not like a lifelong thing for most people and it's just like you know a teenage thing or like a this phase of your life thing but oh my god like i don't know i and you know we've said this before weddings really do bring out like these extreme versions of emotions towards people I think whether that's like I mean I think competing would be probably like the biggest one that it would like really magnify it's just hard to know when it's like it doesn't it doesn't feel finished it doesn't feel like oh we had this falling out and that's why she feels this way or this thing happened between us and things have been awkward since then or it's just confusing it's like all of a sudden like she's the one who she doesn't want her husband and baby there i like a week before the wedding when seemingly all the way up until the wedding it was fine and she was talking about it to them yes party yeah but yeah like why now yeah i don't know like she was maybe she's got ring clarity and now she's like i really want you to love me choose me pick me right we have to go back to that we i I don't know other, I literally don't understand another reason. I don't know. No, it doesn't make sense. And even just her response where she's like, yeah, she didn't come because she's jealous of me. Why would she be jealous of you? She has everything, seemingly. Yeah. Like, she's got her marriage. She's got a baby. Yeah. What do you have that she would want? Surely it's so much easier to just say we were at capacity. And I couldn't extend the invite to her husband, unfortunately. But no, she did invite him. Yeah, anyway. i kind of want a friendship like that what is wrong with you no and then like at the end and then like at the end we fall in love oh well i was like oh that's why we've like that's why we've always had this have you watched the rivalry yet no we're done i'm sorry i've been playing video games get off the game i'm sorry episode one tonight remember how long i talked to you about watching k-pop demon hunters and it took you forever and then you watched and you were like I loved it. It was so good. But I'm not watching it because I know that I'm going to love it. Have you seen Yuri on Ice? That's also gay figure skaters. And it's been around much longer. And it's great. What can I watch it on? Crunchyroll. Don't know what that is. Anime. Streaming service. Okay. Yeah. You watch Heat Rivalries and I'll give Yuri a chance. There we go. Okay. Moving along. We got one last one for us here. Give me something. Give me something fucked up. Give me something disgusting. Just kidding. Don't do that. Give me something messy. Boyfriend says my cooking proves I'm not a gold digger. Oh, well, that's specific. We have that. What does that mean? Am I the asshole for refusing to promise my best friend 100% that I won't sleep with a mutual friend? Oh, well, I kind of like both of those. I'm kind of interested. Should we roll a die? Flip a coin. Flip a coin. We haven't brought out the coin flip in a while. Okay, what do you want heads to be? Heads, gold digger, and tails sleeping with mutual. Heads. I kind of want the other one. That's how you know. But I initially was really interested in the gold digging one, but I think I need to know about not. They'll still get it. Yeah. Eventually. Okay. So here we go. This is coming from Am I the Asshole? Again, it's titled Am I the Asshole for refusing to promise my best friend 100% that I wouldn't sleep with a mutual friend? I'm on her side. Like, what if they have an amazing sexual tension? I, 30 female, have a best friend, 29 female, of 13 years. She is in a long-term committed relationship, seven plus years, and lives with her partner. We also share a mutual friend, Aaron, 30 male. About eight years ago, my friend and Aaron had a brief situationship. Oh, different. This is what I thought. Okay. They slept together once and then tried to date very briefly long distance, but it ended because he did not want to pursue anything further. She was upset at the time and it never became a mutual relationship. After that, they stayed friendly for a while then lost touch for several years and reconnected as friends about a year ago There has been nothing romantic between them since Recently Aaron broke up with his long girlfriend Before that happened my friend and I had already planned a trip to visit him together, which we have done before. This time, we were planning to stay at his place instead of a hotel. After his breakup, my friend started making comments like, quote, ha ha, just please don't sleep with each other. It was framed as a joke, but it was clear that she was anxious. I asked her directly if something was bothering her. I told her two things clearly. One, I was not planning to sleep with him, and two, I was not comfortable promising 100% that I would not because I do not like my potential or hypothetical relationships being policed, and I did not feel okay making absolute promises about future situations just to manage someone else's anxiety. I was not trying to be evasive. I was trying to be honest while also setting a boundary. The next day, I reiterated that I was still not planning to sleep with him. Her response was essentially that she was canceling the trip. She said she was canceling because of the uncertainty and it made her anxious and she needed to take care of herself. From my perspective, this felt like my word was not trusted unless I gave a 100% guarantee and when I did not the entire plan was shut down. I understand that anxiety is real but also feels unfair to expect me to give up autonomy or make absolute promises about hypothetical scenarios especially when nothing inappropriate had happened and the history in question was many years ago. She did not clearly say what she expected me to do differently. She cancelled the trip without further discussion. I feel like I was honest respectful and that my boundary was reasonable. Am I the asshole for refusing to promise 100% that I wouldn't sleep with him, even though I said I wasn't planning to? I don't know if this is going to be a hot take. I am not on OP's side. First of all, like, it made me feel like she didn't trust my word. You just said the whole thing is that you wouldn't give your word that you wouldn't. And I feel like I got a little whiplash there. I also just have to say, like, if you don't have any feelings for this person and like this is your friend of 13 years and they have a history and sure it was a long time ago I don't think you can police how they feel about someone that they actually have history with and just like not sleep with this guy and honestly if someone to me was like well I'm not planning on it but I'm but no promises like that sounds like you want to yeah I don't know I'm not saying it's like the end of the world to like sleep with someone I don't know I wouldn't I wouldn't hook up with someone that has had a previous relationship with one of my friends. Personally, I think it causes like a negative dynamic between you and that friend. I like I had this happen with one of my close friends. I'd like not even had a relationship with the guy, but like had been talking to him for a while. Many years later, she started seeing him. And during the time she was seeing him, she was very weird to me. Like she acted very different to me during that time. and like just knowing how it can affect a friendship i'm like i don't think it's worth it to just like sleep with a guy no and like put the stress on it you know like she feels strongly about this whether you think it's reasonable or logical or not that's your friend and i would just not do it yeah i just promise i'm well i'm usually in the boat of like you shouldn't sleep with your friend's exes yeah and it seems like op is kind of trying to brush this off as like oh well it never became a mutual relationship but that doesn't change her feelings no and they did have a situationship yeah they tried to date very briefly long distance those are op's words so they did try to do something and i think a lot of times women are just like people get put into a box and like especially with situationships right like i'm thinking about myself and like i was in love with this guy loved him if he would have asked me to be his girlfriend i would have been like yep yep down down yeah but it was just a situation chip yeah and we slept together and like we never officially dated absolutely but my head was in it yeah and so even though it's been you know a couple years i can imagine being like oh well he wants to date my friend now like why wasn't i enough like yeah and i don't i don't know if i would think that way now because it would still be weird it would still be weird like regardless of how i feel now it's just like there's so many people out there why do you have to go after like my ex like especially when she's visibly uncomfortable about it and i do think op is kind of like shading her friend a few times throughout the way she's writing this like oh and she wanted more but he didn't and he ended it and like i don't know i'm just like okay clearly for her this was like a she didn't want it to end this is very emotionally divisive for her she's got maybe some of like insecurities caught up in this again maybe like feelings caught up in this whatever it is like just leave it alone you don't have a history with this guy you have no reason or need to to push it and also don't even know if he's interested in you yeah you don't even know if you like him in that way unless you know you like him in that way right want something to happen that's why you won't promise i don't know it is weird like i i think it is interesting like she has a long-term committed relationship seven years right and is still kind of feeling this way like to me i'd be like is there something that your relationship is lacking or is this just a normal feeling it's just like hey please don't eat where i shit like yeah it's just like can we not like there's other people out there but even then that's like her business with her partner not really with her friend who she's telling like this will upset me yeah and i think opi's being dramatic to be like she's trying to take my autonomy away and Like, like, I just don't asking, please don't sleep with this guy I really liked and tried to have a relationship. Yeah. And I think that's a very respectful conversation for her to have. Like, yeah, especially before the trip. They weren't on the trip. Like, it's before the trip. And now she's like, it doesn't even seem like OP is that close with Aaron. It really does seem like the friend is close with Aaron. Yeah. And it's kind of facilitated through the friend. Because otherwise, OP, you could just go visit Aaron still. even if the trip is canceled. Yeah, totally. And if the friend does have these, like, unresolved feelings for Aaron and is now Aaron single and is kind of wanting for something to happen with him, again, like, that's her business with her partner. It's really, like, not up to you to be like, well, she's dating someone. Like, you're the friend in this situation. Yeah. You can, like, try to get her to talk about it and, like, see how she feels and be like, is there something more to this? But I don't know. I'm sure there are people out there listening who are like, this is a dramatic response. This happened so long ago. You should be able to sleep with this. It shouldn't matter if you move on. I just don't think it matters enough to put the dynamic of my 13-year friendship at risk just to sleep with someone. And that's the thing. And my dad would have a very different take. If you listen to my dad's show, Father Knows Something, he's like, who cares? You're done. It didn't work out for you. Why should you stop your friend from being happy? And I've had to ask myself this because it's come up so much on his show. But like, I'm married. I've been with Justin seven years. I'm happy. I'm healed from all of the situationships. And it's not that I'm not healed or like jealous or I'm not any of like anything. I don't have any feelings towards those people. Like the one person like I'm good friends with, we chat, we connect. Like me and Justin ran into him at the airport and we said hi. I saw his fiance. Like we're good. but I still wouldn't want my friends to date anyone that like I've previously dated because like I also don't want to be around them all the time yeah you're my best friend yeah and then I have to see him all the time again no no if one of my friends now slept with one of my exes I would just be so confused and uncomfortable about it and it's like right you only am I weird I don't know I don't think it's weird to feel that way like I don't think that that's indicative of any like deeper feelings about anything i think it's just like that there is just like a line being like it's like things touch it like foods touching what shouldn't be touching and also like i think it's a different situation if you all went to high school together and have all known each other and you dated this person at one point and then dated someone else at another point or whatever that might be like if you've all met at the same time but if you're only like knowing of someone through them having something with your friend, like there's no pre-existing relationship that you can look back to and be like, well, I also kind of had feelings at this time. And even though you did, that didn't stop me. You know, it can get more complicated in other situations, I think, when there's high school or college or that kind of overlap involved. But in sort of adult relationships and situationships, whatever that might be, you really only know of that person through your friend. There's no time that you would have been developing your own feelings before knowing that they slept together. That's true. We do get a lot more contacts from OP. No way. Oh my God. OP is just dishing it out. Okay, let's see if OP can swing me to her side. Clarifications. One, this was not limited to this specific trip. My friend told me she did not want me to hook up with Aaron at all, not now and not in the future. And she also said she'd be uncomfortable with me having any kind of romantic relationship with him, not just sex. Two, many people asked why I couldn't just say, sure, no problem. I won't do it. Yeah. The reason is that this was not framed as a one-time reassurance about the trip, but as a blanket expectation about my relationships going forward. I was being asked to promise that I would not pursue anything with Aaron at all indefinitely. My response, I'm not planning to, but I'm not comfortable with my relationships being policed, was intentional. There is prior context where my friend has tried to restrict my relationships based on her feelings, even when nothing was actively happening, which is why agreeing to a blanket promise felt important to push back on. That sounds like OP has slept with her exes before. In one case during university, I was starting to talk to a guy we both knew. She asked me not to pursue anything because she wanted to keep him, quote, as an option. I agreed and stepped back. She later started dating him about two years after that, and they are still together. In another case, she stopped speaking to me for about two months over a guy she had liked years earlier in school, even though nothing had happened between them, and I explicitly asked if she wanted me to stay away. I was told, do whatever you want, and then ignored. After over a week of no communication, I eventually dated him. That relationship later became my long-term relationship and engagement. Because of this history, I do not feel comfortable agreeing to a pre-promise that would restrict my relationships in general, even though I was clear that I was not planning to pursue anything. three my friend's partner is aware that she and Aaron had a brief situationship many years ago he is under the impression that this is long over and not an issue because of that he has been okay with her staying in touch with Aaron and us traveling to his city these visits have never involved the two of them alone every time she visited Aaron I was also there except for one occasion when his girlfriend was present the entire time there has been no one-on-one time between them since they reconnected. This is why the request for a 100% promise felt like an escalation rather than a simple reassurance. Someone goes deep diving again and OP's commenting everywhere and they go you were dating her high school crush which you did not discuss beforehand and led to a two-month break. Doesn't sound like a very considerate friend to me. OP responds her crush from the eighth grade while on the third year of uni. So it was her crush from eighth grade and they were already juniors in college. Okay. And I did proactively come to her after he showed interest and I noticed that she might have a problem with it. I asked her to talk to me and went as far as promising I won't date him if she tells me to, which by the way, right now I won't do. That was crazy considering the timeline, the level of the relationship, or albeit its absence. But she was upset about the fact he liked me overall and said, do whatever you want, which was followed up by weeks of silence. I'm sorry, but again, at that point, I was convinced that the friendship is over and only then did I go out with him and again I would understand if it was a one-off but it's a pattern that repeats itself this didn't swing me over to OP's side I'm still I think okay so the friend is overreacting if it were a one-off but even OP herself is listing three instances where she's been the one doing this to her friend so like I understand why she's like please just don't sleep with him it'll make me feel weird like you've done it twice I'm kind of swayed okay good I think disagree I okay here's my thoughts so OP responds to another comment here someone asked like has OP have you slept with other guys besides your ex who was the guy from high school started dating junior year OP goes no I've only slept with my ex in our long-term relationship so it's like op is not even sleeping around op is not even really in a casual hookups it seems like this girl is just like trying to dibs everyone that's hot keep her options open and if guys like her friends and don't find her to be the hottest most attractive desirable one she then has a problem with it but she's dibsing this guy that she's already slept with and had a relationship with that i think erin's like in a box over here like aaron i get like she's just asking her not to sleep with him but i think you know it comes down to like overall the policing of like other guys i mean i think the thing with like her having a crush on him in eighth grade i think it probably started in eighth grade i think she probably had a crush on him for a while you can't have a crush on everyone no i know you don't get to dibs everyone but but then the ones that i do have a crush on you've dated too like that's crazy but literally the guy that op was like i i like this guy the friend was like oh well can you not date him because i want to keep him as an option because i think years later dates him but that's from op's perspective which is why i think that like the friend had already been like talking to that guy i don't know like that one it does sound sus from op's perspective but i'm also just like i think that that was the situation where she was talking to that guy and then was like can you not and because she actually did date him so i don't know i think i think maybe we can get more in the weeds about the earlier two situations but i just like don't i don't see the issue with story number three or like i guess the original one um like story three in their timeline i guess it would be because like i don't think i don't think these two should be friends i mean maybe again they're competing with each other it's just like it's a 13-year friendship though I do like that's true if you've known someone like through middle school through high school through college through adult years like this is bound to happen I feel like because middle school and high school are such small like you hang out with the same people if you're friends I don't think that's true I don't think I ever had the same like I don't think anyone I was friends with ever had a crush on anyone I dated or like I had a crush on any of my friends partners or ex-partners but again i'm just like from this perspective of like knowing how weird it can make the dynamic between friends i just again don't think it's worth it and i don't think she's asking to police your relationships i think she's asking about this specific one and this happens what like once every four years oh but it's still every five years i don't know we do get we get an update okay i just want to say like it is really really really nice when you and like some of your best friends have totally different tastes in like what you're looking for totally let me tell you i am very unique yeah we are like the best little wing girls when we were going out and like dating because like two very different tastes yeah that's awesome that's nice like i can't imagine this competition and like my friend being like dibs dibs no this does sort of seem like an ill-fated i but they're dibs on people in the sense of like she had a crush on the guy and she did it yeah but she did years in college they still remain friends she just like didn't talk to her for a few weeks because she was upset about it stonewalling very unhealthy communication style sure but that's not really the same as stonewalling like i do feel like that was just a react like a sad reaction to it and they did date like she was allowed to date him and they remained friends i don't know let's see what we have in store for these updates yeah i'm interested update we talked again she said she panicked because she interpreted our previous conversation as me preparing the ground i would too to hook up with him and reacted to that fear rather than anything that had actually happened she framed it as a misunderstanding what's important for context is that by that point i had already said multiple times that i'm not planning to sleep with him i reiterated this again very clearly during that conversation nothing has happened. I'm not being sneaky and this was never something I was actively pursuing. After that, the trip was back on. So she's not that crazy! That said, I'm still left feeling pretty uncomfortable about how this played out. Not because I want him, but because I don't understand why I had to repeatedly convince someone that nothing will ever happen when there was no concrete grounds to suspect that it would, other than the fact that we are both single now. I am also still not okay with my relationships being policed in principle. This is not about this specific person. It is about the expectation that I should provide guarantees or reassurance indefinitely to manage someone else's anxiety, which I do not think is normal or healthy between adults. We agreed to put the broader conversation about boundaries and control on hold for now and deal with it later. The trip is back on. Because many people asked, I'm not planning to go to her partner about it at this point. Nothing concrete has happened. and while I have my own thoughts about why she reacted the way she did, those are still subjective interpretations. I do not think it is my place to escalate things or put ideas in his head when no clear lines have been crossed. My plan is to see how things actually play out this weekend and then, afterwards, have an honest conversation with her as a friend about why this situation affected her so strongly, especially given that their history was eight years ago and she is in a committed relationship now. wish us all luck i will update everyone after this weekend i don't like her i don't like her i think she's mean i'm kind of like i get it i don't like her the way that she like words everything and i think part of this is me just trying to be more suspicious of op and like the person writing in in general because it's like all we get is their perspective and i think that that already gives bias in their favor so if there's something like a little bit off in what they're saying like i'm gonna jump on it more i think i'm the opposite i'm like this is all we have like you can kind of you can kind of be like maybe an unreliable narrator but like for me i'm like i believe her her i mean i believe that the situation is what she's saying i just don't think she's really right in this situation like i think her saying that she had no reason to believe i wouldn't it's probably because you just kept not saying you wouldn't like you were fused though but like she is saying like i don't have plans on sleeping with him that to me sounds like you want to fill like leaving the like setting the stage like i would also take it that way that's how it read in my mind when i was hearing it and i think for her she's just like i'm tired of being told what to do like i think based on that like we we don't have a conversation it sounds like there's other things like we agreed to put the broader conversation about boundaries and control on hold for now that's because she's calling this control she's saying she's controlling her by saying don't sleep with my ex so i'm wondering if there's other instances that are maybe going into this i don't know why i feel so strongly about this because it does seem like it seems like our writer is very triggered by this request of like hey please don't sleep with this guy that i had a situation ship with which i think yeah i think it's fair but it seems like op is like responding based on her triggers and it's like i'm not planning on sleeping with him but i also don't want to be controlled yeah it seems like i don't think that is controlling i think that's a very normal request for a friend to make of another friend and honestly i don't think it should even have to be a request it shouldn't but like it's nice that it got set up front it's fine for op to be like yeah i'm not planning on sleeping with him but like but i'm not gonna promise i won't like how would you take that i'm not planning on it but I'm not going to promise I won't. I, you know, it's, they're two adults. I, I do think it's kind of interesting. She even said it based on having a seven year long relationship. Yeah. I go back and forth on this one. Like I'm, I'm honestly really, really torn. And there's one final update. We'll see if it lands us anywhere else. That would shock me if I, if I switch sides. Final update, which is coming 11 days from that last post I just read. the weekend ended up going really well nothing happened between me and aaron there were no weird vibes no tension and honestly everything felt very normal and relaxed i also didn't sense any lingering or inappropriate energy from my friend towards him during the trip after we got back my friend and i talked again she clarified that she would probably be okay if we were ever aiming at something serious but what she was afraid of was us sleeping together casually and then creating awkwardness or damaging the group dynamic. I still feel like this was a bit of backtracking compared to how things were framed before the weekend, but at this point, I'm choosing not to dig further into that. In the end, I actually got what I needed from the situation. While we are both going through breakups, it isn't just about that. I realized we're quite similar as people and talking to him felt easy and natural. It made me see that there's a potential for genuine friendship there as a bonus he helped me set up a tinder profile and i already have a few dates lined up so that part worked out pretty well one surprising detail was that my friend's boyfriend was aware of the whole situation and fully on her side which honestly confused me a bit i still have questions about that dynamic but i'm not planning to get into that further sorry for the less than underwhelming update and my apologies to everyone who was rooting for me to sleep with him I am going to throw down these comments. I'm going to find this Reddit post. I'm just like, I don't think it's crazy at all that the boyfriend was okay with it. I think this is a normal way to feel without having feelings for your ex. I think it's very normal to be like, I don't want one, like maybe my best friend or any of my friends, but especially not my best friend to sleep with my ex. Again, if one of my friends were to start seeing one of my exes, like they met somewhere and they really had feelings for each other. And I was like, OK, I need to find a way to be OK with it. I guess that is different. I wouldn't want it to happen, though. And I would, you know, if I had a chance, I would request for it to not happen and be like, this is going to make me feel weird. But, you know, if you're in love with this person, I'm not with them anymore. I'll find a way to be OK with it. I don't think it was weird for the boyfriend to be okay with it. I don't think it was ever like sneaky or suspicious for her to feel that way. I think it's... It could have been. I'm curious what she's telling the boyfriend. Like I think there's, again, you kind of question like the boyfriend in the t-shirt story. Like he didn't even tell the girlfriend what t-shirt he was wearing. But what other way could she... It's such a simple thing. Like I just don't want her to sleep with him. I feel like that'd be weird. I mean, if I told Justin, oh, I have this ex and like someone's starting to date him. I just find it weird. Like he would be on my side. Yeah. But I don't know. This whole story, I'm just like, I actually kind of am back on board for their friendship. Can I say the last whiplash? I'm just over it. I like I don't care about them. I think they are they deserve they all deserve each other. They should just have a threesome. Fuck it. The last story, the last update, I was sort of like, okay, so everything's fine. They were just sort of having, like, a brief friendship. Like, the trip was back on after, like, one conversation. They went. They had a great time. Everything's fine. People crash out over less. I know. That's what it's like. People crash out over, like, nothing. Especially, I don't know. I feel like these days everyone's, like, emotionally heightened. Yeah. And rightfully so. So, I mean, maybe they do have to have a bigger conversation of, like, I do have insecurities with you and people that I have feelings for. and it made me feel weird 10 years ago when it happened and I don't want it to happen again. It's like a fear of mine. Like maybe they just need to have a conversation about this clearly like pre-existing fear or insecurity with each other. But I think at a certain point, though, you need to also grow up. Like if you're upset that your friend, like you're in college and some boy you had a crush on in middle school and your friends start dating, like I think at a certain point you do have to grow up. absolutely but i think it adds on to like now it's someone that i had like an actual thing with and i'm scared of it scared of history pre-ing itself in like in a bigger way yeah i i don't know because i go back and forth because the friend is in a seven-year-long relationship with someone that op had a crush on initially and was close with and wanted to start dating but it sounded like they just both had a crush on him as opposed to like they're being pre-existing history get around because she was fucking erin she was busy with erin but she wanted to keep that guy as an option i don't know the timelines are really confusing to me they're both competing with each other and it's just like god just develop different tastes than your friend or just like expand your circle very ill-fated the way they have the exact same circle like go meet other people outside of your friend group and like oh just come on like there's you don't have to compete with friends you don't have to go she's on tinder now things are gonna happen she's got dates lined up we're good yeah we're good here both of them are i think soon gonna be in long-term relationships with no chance of overlap and they're never gonna have a problem again i'm i think they're great friends i think i think these are kind of small disagreements in the grand scheme of it like it seems like these things like haven't lasted that long like three weeks they had an issue 10 years ago and then like this lasted what like one week you know and you've been friends for 13 years you're fine but there's a stat that's like if you've been friends with someone for seven years you're likely to be friends with them the rest of your life or something like that You have to get through like friendship breaking events. I think it's the same with romantic relationships. Like just because there are issues, like you kind of have to face issues and like work past them for long lasting relationships. Now, that doesn't mean if someone's like constantly awful to you that that's the same thing. No, but I mean, every relationship, romantic, friend, whatever, you do need to go through some tips. You do need to have hard conversations and disagreements to then further the strength of your communication and trust and love and whatever. Like fighting is not inherently bad. It's how you fight. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And get a colonoscopy. Get your colonoscopy. I'm pretty sure colon cancer awareness is in May. March, actually, my birthday month. Colon cancer awareness is in March. So we're just getting a jump on it early, but eat your freaking fiber, my friends. Like I just saw this new thing that it literally just, I think came out today or yesterday. Colon cancer is like the leading cancer cause of death or something. Oh, wow. And it's most common in those under 50. But of course, the colonoscopy recommendation isn't until 45, which by that point can be too late to catch it. And this is where we need to like really put pressure on insurance companies. So just like make sure you're looking out for yourself, knowing the symptoms of colon cancer, advocating for yourself. Like, unfortunately, health care in America and some other places like it is about advocating for yourself. But hardly anywhere as bad as America is crazy. I don't even know. I don't know a lot about other health care systems. I had a lot of Canadians come to my hospital in Palm Springs to get their knees and hips replaced. But I don't know. I would take free versus 40K out of pocket. But it can be time consuming. You could live through pain. I don't know their health care system. I mean, the difference between like paying outright to get a colonoscopy versus not paying and then you just didn't get checked and now you don't know. You know, I think everyone needs to really keep an eye on that. and I know a lot of people are scared about doing the colonoscopy. There are other methods out there where you can just poop in a box and if that's the only thing you're willing to do, please do it, but also be aware that everything can have false positives and false negatives. So look after yourself, okay friends? We need you here. We need you here. We're here for a good time and a long time i hope why can't we have it all why can't we have our cake and eat it too but thank you see you over on patreon if you want any more content we had three really good episodes for january true february is gonna be rocking too i loved our patreon episode so good so good the comments on it have been amazing oh i need to go look amazing i have to subscribe no i'll give you a moderator thing okay bye friends until next time Thank you.