Coach and Stephen Reunite for Survivor Tocantins Encore Episode

all right everybody this is a real fun one that we have for you here today of course we all just watched the classic from one of the greatest survivor episodes of all time on everybody's list the martyr approach season 18 episode 13 and of course to talk about it this is such a great lineup here uh that first off we have the man who this was really his big moment in survivor token genes who's going to be back for survivor 50 of course it is the dragon slayer coach is here coach how are you fantastic how about you guys uh could not be more excited for this and what a delight to have a man who was back on primetime television here for the first time in over a decade. It's Stephen Fishback. I'm back. This is my return. You thought season 50 was the big comeback. No, Stephen is back on TV, everybody. Yeah, that's what people are celebrating. What do you think, Coach? It's where it all began. My gosh. It's another lifetime, isn't it? Truly. Yeah. So, I mean, I could ask you guys questions, but I feel like for you two to have this episode, this like slice of your life back in everybody's minds here tonight. What was it like for you two? Well, how was your back? I should ask you that first. Steven, for the rest of my life, I'm going to be having problems with various parts of my body. But you know, the back is in a place. You know what? Can I tell you something? My back is doing good. Modern medicine. Hey, this was like 15 years ago. But guess what? two days before I left for season 50 I freaking threw it out again no I threw it out again my stupid trainer was like hey do these dumbbells and uh you know he was making me do a burpees and then doing like a thrust squat and a so like stupid stuff and so I did him and then I'm like let me go higher weight and two days before man I threw it out and I'm like oh shit I texted Matt Van Wagner and I said dude I do you gotta gotta get me somebody down there on site I'm gonna see the chiropractor before I leave but you gotta get me somebody on site and he reamed me in the plane he was like coach you freaking old man what are you doing man not you know it's not starting out 100% I said just get me somebody there so when everybody else was chilling uh on lockdown in Ponderosa they said coach come with us and I went to this you know private room and this lady was incredible she moved and like pushed and like it wasn't quite chiropractor it wasn't like reiki healing it was something different and i popped off of that off of that uh bed not bad but of whatever the yoga table is and i was like i felt like a new man and so it's still giving me problems but unfortunately it did it did not affect the first episode let's say in season 50 okay so thank you for asking the only person to kneel down and see if i was okay well that's that moment after that challenge. So thank you, wizard, for being the wizard. Listen, I mean, you know, you were always someone who gave so much warmth and kindness to everybody. I remember when I came back from exile my second time, and I was shivering and, you know, a bedraggled little, you know, drowned rat, and you kind of, first person to come over, give me a big hug, just like warm me up with your body. He, you always extended that empathy and, you know, human, like kindness to people when they were suffering. And so it was, you know, hard to see you then suffering. And, you know, I knew how difficult the exile experience was. So I'm curious about for you watching this back, you know, there's almost this question in this episode, right? You've got like on the one hand, me and JT and we're like, you know, we love coach, like he's a great guy. And then you sort of have Taj Nair and he's like, he's full of BS. Like, what is it like for you to watch that back now? Like, what emotions does that bring up? Because I remember at the time, you know, it was sometimes hard to be like, you know, to always be this the villain of the season in many ways and then of course to go on to greatness on heroes versus villains i think you know for me that that kindness that you talk about you know that's something that's really you know it's never really shown that much you know on my survivor journey there's other there's other parts that they want to show um but i think you know it was there at the time exile happened it was such a momentous part and watching it back i'll never forget the first time i watched it back they actually flew me to new york city for the round of interviews yeah exit interviews and at the same time we had the finale coming up so i was in new york city for like five days but i got off the plane it's like 11 o'clock and they did not you know, have streaming back then. So they handed me a disc. They said, watch this because you're doing your interview. So I watched on a laptop in my hotel room and I just watched myself. And, you know, like I was emotional watching it because you watch somebody that is really, you know, pushing past what their physical body might be capable of doing. And in a way, maybe thriving in that moment. But I mean, let's make no bones about it. I didn't want to go to exile, I was scared to death to go to exile. And in my mind, as I started, you know, formulating a plan at that moment, of course, I was thinking I'm on this mythological, you know, journey of nicknaming people. And I was just like outside the box, outside the game, outside of my mind in a way, but still having a great time with it. And so, you know, being ready to go to exile, I'm like, all right, let me put myself in a, in a spot of win-win. I'm always thinking about that in life, You know, how can I put myself in a position where I'm going to win? It's why I don't play basketball in real life. I'm freaking hate basketball. I'm coaching my nine-year-old's team. And sometimes I'll be like, you know, hey, watch this, guys. And I'll have that shot. And I've studied the technique. I get this shot at frigging the brick, you know. But he's only nine, so it's okay for now. But I don't put myself in things that I want to win. And so, sorry, that I don't win. And so going to exile, I'm like, how can I win? I can win by not having to build a fire. I can win by not eating. I can win by just making it cinematographically, not even a real word, just as epic as possible. Yes. And so that's kind of how I formulated this plan to go out there and to do that. And man, listen, for whatever you want to say, I was in an exalted spiritual state of enlightenment because we're all starving. You know, our bodies are eating themselves brutally during that season. We're all deprived of sleep. We've got bugs and everything else that we're dealing with 24 seven. And so I was in a spot where I cannot really get to in my everyday life because I was meditating for an hour a day. I was doing coachee, you know, for an hour a day. I was singing songs, you know, to God walking down the path. I was in this spot where it was pretty cool. And so, you know, it was something that I just really did my own way. And I'm forever grateful for everybody on the Survivor production team to honor me in those moments. You know, Exile was like probably my favorite part of the whole journey. I mean that image of you you know that one of the defining images of the show now You know like that one of the most iconic Survivor images of all time you on exile kind of like opening yourself to the experience but i don think there any uh or there i'm hard-pressed to come up with another singular episode of the show that is just such a um just devoted to one character where it's really all about you and i feel like that even though at the end of the episode you get voted out i really feel like this episode really just cements you in survivor lore as just this like larger than life figure it's i mean it's really incredible i think you know just to to be a part of that and to see it and i i think you know looking back on it i do think that the producers knew that they were going to have some fun at my expense i think that they knew that i was going to be polarizing i don't think that they knew the hatred that was going to come from the season. And I'm so glad I got voted off that episode. You know, it was just amazing to, to have that be the bookend because anything after that would have been anticlimactic, you know, they vote Aaron out that night and then, you know, the next, you know, the next tribal council, obviously my days were numbered. I didn't know it at the time, you know, and so then that would have been anticlimactic, but it's really interesting because after I got voted out, I, you know was sitting there in the truck i've told this story a couple of times i was sitting in the truck and all of a sudden you know everybody's like oh shit take off your blindfold uh jeff is coming over and i was like what what and they're like yeah oh gosh he never does this coach take off the blindfold and then the door opens and you know jeff shakes my hand he was like man you you you were incredible this season i just had to shake your hand and and to say you know great job And I said, what? Like, I failed you. I wanted to get the strongest to the end. You know, I was still in that mentality. And he was like, no, coach, like, do you know what you've done? I said, I failed you. He says, no, like you've created this larger than life and it's going to be an amazing ride. He just was really complimentary of me in that moment. And I'll never forget that because, you know, in a moment where I felt like I had failed, you know, he made some comment about, you know, man, you're going to get more airtime than, than anybody's gotten, especially in this episode. So he was really generous. And that kind of made me think, ah, wait a second, let me step back and realize maybe that there's a different journey here that's going on. One that's different than I was trying to narrate. Yeah. I mean, I remember that tribal council, you may not have picked up on this because you didn't know you went home at that point, but like before Jeff read the votes, he kind of like looked at you and like, you can see he was bought, you know, you can see he's like, ah, this is, this is the farewell. You could see he was sort of like emotional about having to like say goodbye to, you know, a character and a player that he really enjoyed. And in terms of like the villainy, I mean, I've always said that I don't think they knew how to even like edit you until maybe this episode. And, you know, I feel like you were more of sort of like pushed into this villain archetype in the early episodes of Token Sheens in a way that was not true to who you are. And I kind of felt like this episode was where the, uh, producers and the editors sort of like really keyed in on like, here's how we show coach. And, and, you know, you weren't on, on here's was villains for as long, but I feel like they kind of like captured you a lot, a lot there better than, than here almost. And, you know, I just, my hats off to you, Stephen and JT, because during the whole season, I don't know if you remember this. And then I want to get back to that final tribal council, but during the season, you guys were so cool, man. like I remember talking to you and you called me after the Amazon story I don't know if you remember this but you know like you were just really generous in you know like your acceptance of me and just generous in you know hey we know you're having the time with the edit you know Aaron's calling you a jackass over and over and but it was cool because you guys were really there for me in a way that somebody like Tyson and Debbie could not be because they really you know, were not, they were, I mean, they were on my side. I'm not really saying this correctly, but they were on my side. So for them to say, Oh coach, you know, you were awesome. That was one thing, but for you and JT, you know, to, to just continually be there to support me and love me. You know, I just want to say, thank you for that. Back to that last tribal council. Um, you know, I've, I've always, you know, really had this in my mind that, that little six cents that's like, you know, danger is coming or you need to do this or whatever it is. And so in that moment, you know, I'm sitting there and I really, I was just, you know, so naive and such a bad survivor player that first go around. But I just had that little thing say, you better read the poem. Cause I'd come up with this poem. I had not shared it with anybody. And it was just like, I don't know if I didn't, I don't think I shared it with anybody if memory serves correctly, but it's like, I just had this thing in my mind. It was like, you better read that poem. I mean, I thought the three of us were going to the end. Right. And so I was like, you better read that poem. And then I did. And what a great, you know, little, you know, coupe de gras a little cherry on top just for the very end. That's the word I'm looking for just to be like, Hey, by the way, I'm also going to spit this poet out for you. And the funny thing is when people quote that today, it really makes me chuckle because it was something that, you know, I almost didn't even say the poem, you wrote it on the Island. Yeah. You know, the friend and foe, we marched to the battle. Yeah. I know the poem. Yeah. But I didn't write it, but I like wrote it in my mind. Yeah. And I was like, it was just there and it was rolling around. Of course, the moment of critical execution, when you got to either say it or fall all over yourself, it came out, it came out very lucid. It came out exactly how I had said it in my mind. See, I can't memorize things really well. So when I memorize the quotes, I'm writing them down like 20, 30 times on the plane, going over, trying to get those stuck in my head because I can't just read something and memorize it. And so when I do something myself, you know, especially something specific like that, it's got to be, I usually would write it down. So yeah, I came up with that that day, you know, I was just like, wow, this is such a great game. And I'm on this vision quest, you know, let me just come up with a poem that rhymes and it just kind of came to me. I mean, to remember the Marcus Aurelius quote on day 34, that's hard. Like, you know, to allegedly be someone who can't remember something and to be able to pull out well no dude i wrote down that marcus really is quote i got all my nose but you didn't have it in front of you you know all my survivors i went once i write it down yeah 30 times then i finally get it and it was like you know for me to sit there and say the greatest measure of a man the greatest measure of a man i would still kind of botch some of the words and some of the quotes people make fun of me for that online i always chuckle i'm like what the frick do you expect man you know but it's like the greatest measure of a man the greatest measure of a man is not is not is not i mean i gotta write it down obsessively so that marcus aurelius quote you know i felt like that would be a great one for the show to spring at the right time and same as this same as season 50 you know like it there's i i wrote down some really good ones so anyway yeah I have a funny quote for you guys today that I came across the other day and it really made me chuckle. And I might spring it, you know, like at the live reunion or something. But Oscar Wilde once said, you know, I'm so clever that sometimes I can't stand a word that comes out of my mouth. And so that's a good one, because in my mind, I think I'm clever. But maybe to everybody else they might not think so But sometimes I don even want to understand what I talking about apropos just like right now i just am blathering on well coach i want to go back i mean can we get into like the weeds of the episode or is that is that sort of why we you know i'm curious like at the start of the episode you know we tell you debbie was coming for you and you believe us um you know how did you feel when you found out so basically like our strategy had been you know we would always get like someone to convince someone to vote for their friend and then you're like oh look they voted for you like you can't be mad at us you know we're the ones who saved you but like obviously and of course like you talked to debbie at ponderosa i assume and like you know cleared that up but how did you feel in that moment because debbie and you had been together from the jump yeah you know i first of all but you guys we're telling you know some truth right i mean she did talk about my name she did throw it out there yeah um and you know like so everything everything you know everything kind of rang true for me right and then talking to debbie and maybe it wasn't and then she swore up and down that she didn't i i mean i was just in a i was in a crazy place man i was in a place where it was not about the game anymore and really all i could do right i mean as soon as tyson got voted out right he's like both a blessing and a curse to me as soon as he got voted out in uh heroes and villains and then everything just downward spiral right the same thing as on token change you guys voted him out i'm just like an ox led to the slaughter okay just tell me what you want to hear i mean as soon as you guys start saying warrior alliance and this and that you had me hooked but actually steven it really was the genuine it was the genuine bond that i felt that we had and it was also the empathy like you alluded to yourself earlier that really bonded us. And I watched you guys. I saw you guys, you know, you came to me, you know, in that challenge. It was there. The real connection was there. And so what you fed me, I was going to I was going to believe. So at the start of the episode, I'm just like hanging on for dear life. I'm hanging on for dear life physically. I'm hanging on for dear life with alliances. I mean, the way that you guys played that season was really epic. I'm sure there's a lot of talk. I don't get on Reddit. I don't look up stuff. But I mean, there's got to be talk just about how incredibly brilliant you guys. And really, you know, like coming from you, right? I know that you are the mastermind, but it was just like how brilliant you guys could just run that season. When you look at, you know, season 23, that's not going to happen. I'm going to keep a stronghold on that alliance. And that just evaporated. So I was feeling, you know, like I wasn't on solid ground, but there was this other journey and this other story that was being told. And I was so caught up into that, that that's the only thing I could see with my blinders on it. And in reality, you know, that was the only thing that was important to me. I knew getting to the end, I knew people were, you know, I could see it by the eye rolls and, you know, making jokes, you know, a tribal council. I knew that I wasn't going to get the votes if I made it to the end. so I was just at that point on another journey. Steven, can I ask you a question in terms of the episode? Because watching it back, it feels like, okay, you and JT seem earnestly like, hey, we love coach. We want to keep coach around. You seemed offended when Aaron said that she didn't believe him. And then JT says, I'm not going to vote out coach. You seem like you're the swing vote in the episode. Why did you ultimately make the vote that you made? jt was always going to vote out coach ps like he just didn't want to write your name down he and you know whether that was a moral thing or a strategic choice you know and i say also in terms of like what coach is saying in terms of like if coach couldn't win at the end why not go further with coach i so i just so first of all coaches like i want to go to the end with you guys he he did i believe that but the real end was not with me you know i don't think i was his your ideal final two partner because it's the final two and you think i don't think i could i count those jury votes i don't think i beat you in that jury coach like i think you're getting i think you get tyson's vote debbie's vote for sure i actually think you'll get sierra's vote um and i i mean maybe brendan's vote i don't know i i think you you realistically could win that and i also think so that was my feeling was like i i could i probably lose to coach and my other feeling was um i know that you don't want to go to the final two with me and i thought like if you know i just didn't want something to go wrong in the final four final three right and it's not a final three in this season ultimately it's a but do you know it's going to be a final two at this point we did but i don't know why maybe it was something about the idle timing we did i we did know it was going to be a final two but i'm just not sure why we knew that do you remember that i was clueless to the game i didn't i wasn't counting idols i literally was just like i thought it was going to be a final three i did i really did think you know and you can see now on my other games that i've played that when i give a promise like that i was going with you guys you know and sierra I started laying everything out episodes earlier and I saw the truth in it and I did entertain it right I did entertain it uh for a little bit and talked to Debbie about it and then as soon as you guys confronted me I was just like yeah that's out the window and I don't want to do that so but I did I did know you know like watching back on it I'm just like man Stephen you know like that was a great season for him he definitely deserved some votes at final tribal and maybe things could have gone different JT had us all snowed you know like really just he played we all like yeah he deserve to win no i mean yeah no i i agree with that but dude you should have gotten some votes you were like the you were like the you were like the strategic the strategic guy for sure let's let's call aaron in here but honestly like i do think the bond between you and jt was what enabled us to thrive and sort of was sort of one of the defining things of the season you know and you guys connected pre-game right i feel like you and he had this thing even from pre-game where you were like not that you spoke at all but just like you know the eye contact or whatever yeah yeah i was telling it with my eyes to be in an alliance with me um i mean yeah but i will say this um that i love the i loved our bond as well like to go out there right because there's like this adventurous side of me but then there's this very academic side that most people don't know about and so to have you out there reciting poems and you know dude that was like really really cool i remember when you went to exile i know this episode is not about that but you know like when you went to exile oh man, I was like, I was praying for you. I was like, I was like, you know, and I said, be the wizard, but it was really just like, man, I was with you there, you know, in those struggles. And so I thought that our bond was, was also, it wasn't as strong as JT's, but it was, it was, you know, definitely a strong bond for me. Yeah. And I, I, you know, that was, I do think that you're right. That like that side of you never really got captured by, you know, by the edit in that, in that season, which, which, you know, we would talk about like books a lot, you know, you were really into Shantaram at that time. I remember, which I still haven't read. I will, I will. But you know, you, you know, we, we, you know, we, I don't know. It was just, it was just cool to, and I think you added a lot of fun to it, you know, by the, the theming, you know, the, the, the D and D theming, kind of like the warrior and the wizard and the dragon slayer. It just made it fun even as a player to like get to be the wizard. You know, I got to, I got to be the wizard at home when I played dungeons and dragons, but to get to be the wizard there. Yeah. Um, where did the dragon stick come from? Can you remind me? Cause that really was very, very, uh, you know, shapely. Yeah. I still have it. Yeah. I still have it by the way. Um, so you took it on the plane from token chains. Oh, this was a great story. So um yeah so let talk about that Um but also you know just survivor is really boring people don realize this you know but survivor that bell means we got about five minutes by the way but that but but survivor is boring so when you can have some wizard come up with literary magic and recite poems from scratch which of course for me that's like man i can recite one quote, but as far as the whole poem and, you know, so like, that was really cool. And then my mythology was also really cool. And so I go on exile and, you know, we, I think, um, Rob, you and I've done a, a, a little deeper dive into this and I'm running off chasing big cats and, you know, I'm literally spending the night. Um, and the big cats are circling me. I think I told you that story. Like I pee around me one night. Cause that six cents is like, you're shit's going to hit the fan tonight. He around myself, take ashes from the old fire. And I'm laying there in an absolute you know just downpour deluge and i'm here the walkie come off from the producer that's in the tent and the guy's like hey the big cats are coming towards you and he's like okay what do i do and they're like just stay put and i'm out there he's like they're coming they're coming closer and the guy's freaking out in the tent he's like well what am i supposed to do just like i don't know uh we're gonna try to send somebody up there and i mean i was so delirious from lack of sleep i literally was just like fuck it excuse my language bleep that out and then i fall asleep okay the next morning man the cat's friends literally are all around me they're like around my head they'd circle that that where i you know urinated on the ground to mark my territory so anyway there's some really cool stuff at exile um but i'm taking a walk that next day and there had been a lightning storm there a week earlier and it had and then like way earlier there had been a fire there right and it was caused by lightning and so like a lot of cool things there but anyway there's a tree that was down and I'm looking at this one branch and I'm thinking oh this is freaking cool and so I started hitting with a machete it's so tough right it's like it's been hardened it's basically been heat treated by this lightning strike and so I strip off all the bark and it's got this really cool thing you know like looking head and a little thing that looks like an ear sticking out from it so I was actually going to carve a face and I started carving it you see me carving it. I was going to carve like a, like a mouth, but it was so freaking hard that I only got so far. And so, you know, hobbling back to camp, you know, doing the challenge, going back to camp, using that staff, leaning on it in tribal council. And it just really became just like, you know, part of that final journey. And so when we get done, you know, this is a, this is a nationally protected land. You can't take anything out of it. And I just, just hammed it up as far was my back and it was like oh man i really need this to get on the plane and i'm so sorry and they were like well you can't get that on the plane can we wrap that up and i said we'll wrap it up and tape but i still needed to walk on or you guys gonna have to put me in a wheelchair i did hand that up and then they were just like okay you can take it and even matt was like one of the producers was like i can't believe you got that out of here so i still have it i took it to the jeweler that i had and he was using these diamond uh drill bits to mount a plate to it i'll post a picture later on my story. And he broke off like half a dozen drill bits just trying to get this plate. He was like, I have no idea what kind of wood this is, but it's so hard. I can't, my drills won't even drill into it. But that's how I got the staff off of exile, off the island, so to speak. And here, I actually almost brought it with me to season 50, but, and you know, like used it as a cane, but then I thought, well, it'd be too much of a spectacle and maybe they would confiscate it on a plane who knows so but i do still have it yeah that's amazing and it's so cool like i really watching this episode back and looking at it's like you know it really does look like a dragon's head pretty classic man it was just one of those things right just a gift from the creator of the universe to bestow on me at the right right moment at the right time yeah coach i know you said that the, I know you're at the school and the kids are going to start coming through in, uh, only a couple of moments. Is there anything else about this episode that really jumped out to you that you'd love to let people know about? I think that it's, it's a great, it's a great reminder. You know, people live with a glass half full or the glass half empty, right? I mean, that's just, you could have people living the identical life. And one person would say, I wish I would have gone on more vacations. I wish I would have had more children. I wish my wife would have been whatever. And then there's that person with a glass half full. It's like, man, I had a great life. I went on all the vacations. I had a great wife. I had a great family. So I've always been that optimist. And so for me, you know, watching myself in the valley to embrace, you know, the crap and to take joy in that, I think is a great lesson for life to just remember that, you know, we're all in different places, but if we can embrace the now, whether it's the highs or the lows, there's great opportunities that are found when we're in the valleys, right? We never grow on the mountaintops, but our character is forged in the valleys. You know, our perseverance is tested our patience grows our character is defined there's doors that are open during those opportunities um you know it's just like a great way to just look at myself and say look everybody can make fun of me they can say whatever they want to say but by golly i practice what i preach and that authenticity i think without having been on tv for 14 years is why you know people i think are excited to see the dragon slayer back on 50. I couldn't agree more. I think in our own lives, we all sometimes have to go to exile Island in one way or another, and you can go there and suffer and be miserable, or you can go and turn it into something that legends are made of. And that's exactly what this episode of television proves. So, so fun to get the chance to talk about it with both of you. yeah coach truly one of the best things i got from the whole survivor experience was meeting you you know when i remember even being there and meeting you and thinking like like this is awesome like no matter what happens like i've met like this person who is unlike anyone i will ever meet in my life and i'm grateful we can still be in touch now and so okay coach you could watch him coming up february 25th and survivor 50 and of course uh incredible author steven fishback is here with us author of the incredibly well-selling book escape exclamation point which you can find out more about how to purchase at stephenfishback.com rave reviews from coach also by the way oh great thank you coach thank you appreciate it yes you wait till our conversation and when i post it online hey i gotta go guys all right thanks bye thanks thanks thanks for checking out today's podcast talking about these classic episodes of survivor if you love hearing stories like this from the classic survivors about all the greatest moments in survivor history you're gonna love this book the tribe and i have spoken we captured 25 years of survivor lore and all the best moments and all the players that you love to hear about and all my fond memories of their experiences right here on one book you can check it out at rob has a book.com next week you