Craig Melvin co-host of Today Show reveals the true cost of success, sacrifice, why he's ok being a bad friend, fatherhood, addiction, Savannah Guthrie's return and how looking at a glass half full vs half empty reflects a person's character.

Blowing out budget or metrics that look great till the CFO sees them. That's bull spend. And marketers are calling it out in... Dashboard Confessions! I remember telling my boss, it'll be good for the brand when leads were slow. Yeah, it wasn't. Cut the bull spend. LinkedIn lets you target by company, job title and more. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend 200 pounds on your first campaign and get a 200 pound credit. Go to linkedin.com slash lead. Terms and conditions apply. Craig Melvin is the multi-layered co-host of the Today Show and his own podcast, Glass Half Full. But today you'll learn he's much more than his professional persona. Funny, charismatic, smart, real. All those words come to mind to describe Craig during this conversation. In the end, he's just a boy from South Carolina supporting his Gamecocks while paying taxes in Husky Country. He dives into his complicated relationship with his father, how they found reconciliation and what forgiveness truly looks like. What it is for him to be a parent now, and of course, we talk a little sports. We got into sacrifice though and what it took to succeed and maybe some of the parts of life you miss along the way. It's an example of many seeing the glory without knowing the full story. Not only is he fantastic at his job, but he's a great teammate and so are all the people that he works with. He took us back behind the scenes of what it's been like to support Savannah Guthrie through this unfathomable, unimaginable time. How excited they are to have her back just to show her the love that she's shown all of them whenever they've needed her. Before we leave, he talks about his biggest pivot or maybe his biggest decision. And if I had to guess, his wife, Lindsey, won't mind this answer at all. This is a banger of a show from an unlikely source in my opinion. There were many times that Craig said, you know, that's probably not going to make the edit. Little does he know the pivot doesn't leave much on a cutting room floor. So please enjoy this conversation with the fascinating Craig Melbourne. And you can see like you little booze. He had it. Eric said he had to fix his mic because he had on cashmere. I'll be having a full cashmere one day. For Super Bowl champion, you can call anybody boozy. He's not wearing Haynes' t-shirt. Hey, he had on cashmere. Yeah, I'll get that one day. Hey, that's that today's show for you. You know what I'm saying? Craig Melbourne, man, welcome to the show. Oh, we're just always starting. Yeah, that's how we start. Right in tune. That's how we start. That's Fred Taylor, Channing Crow, Ryan Clark. I'm about to introduce everybody. Like, I don't know who the... I grew up watching. You're on a Super Bowl. People know who you are. We've got to introduce ourselves, you know what I mean? It's part of it. You don't need an introduction. You know, we got to introduce ourselves. Man, welcome to the show. I'm glad we're in New York. Yes. Because I would guess you can't go back to Connecticut. After a whole, you know, they get your taxes, but your heart's in South Carolina with Dawn Stanley. Yeah, you do your research. You know, it was one of those things where I thought it was a clever post at the time because Dawn and I have been friends for a number of years. Like, just ride or die. Like, Dawn is friends with my mom. Right. So anytime the Gamecocks are in the postseason, I wave the flag proudly. I've grew up in Columbia, took some classes at USC, and I temporarily forgot where I lived. And most of my friends are Yukon fans. And I have gotten more grief over the last five days for just declaring my allegiance to South Carolina instead of Yukon. I was... I think I was slightly vindicated, by the way, Gina, went out. You know? But yeah, I'm going to stay here forever. I stand by it. Connecticut can have my taxes. You gave me the most important thing. South Carolina has my heart. Yeah. It's like I see you at my house, and it's not even from the Today Show. It's, you know, watching you on TV, talk about these different stories and these crimes, and do it in such an impactful way. And then you transition to the morning show, and you're welcoming people into your home with part of your family, and they're doing the same with theirs. Talk a little bit about being in your line of work and the versatility that it's taking you to get to the point that you're in. That's a good question. You know, it's interesting, because I've said before, I think one of the reasons that the Today Show works, and it's worked for almost 75 years now, it's, you know, when you tune in every morning, you're going to get a little bit of everything. You'll get the latest on the war with Iran. You're going to get the latest political news in general. You'll get some sports. You'll get some music. You'll get some food. You'll get a little bit of everything, because I think that's a reflection of who we are as people. Like, you're not just a Super Bowl champ. You know, you're not just NFL players. Like, you're a businessman. You like to make children during pandemics. So we're all layered. And so I think one of the reasons that God blessed me with the gig that I have is that I've always been kind of layered and kind of weird. Like, I've got lots of odd interests. You know, I'm in the sports. I'm in the music. I've always been a news junkie. I love to read, but also I like to make candles. So it just ended up being over time a good fit. But starting out the business, I wasn't that versatile, because when you're starting local news, you know, it's a lot of car wrecks. It's a lot of house fires. It's a lot of murder. And so just that's the nature of local news, unfortunately. So over time, I've been allowed to do more of the things that I enjoy doing. How do you separate the heart and the morals and just like your angle on life, your thoughts to reporting? Like, you're supposed to report, but then you already have things in your heart that you feel. It's interesting because I do think, because I had a cable show for a decade on MSNBC. And, you know, that was during the time where MSNBC became sort of 80, 90% politics. It was hard sometimes, not even because I'm overly political. In fact, I think one of the things that served me well then and still serves me well, I'm not overly political. There are oftentimes, you know, to be clear, there are certain things where you see it and you hear it, you're like, they're not two sides to that. But there are other things, certain political issues. It's like, okay, well, I can see that. I can, well, okay, I can see that. So it does help that naturally, I think I'm sort of a dispassionate person about a lot of things. Now, there are other mornings where I'm sitting on set and yes, I have to work on my facial expressions and swallow my thoughts and remind myself, I have a mortgage and two small children that probably want to go to college. But otherwise, it's, but I also think, not to preach, but I think one of the things unfortunately that hadn't started, but it's been happening in our country for some time, you have an opinion on something, I have an opinion on something, Fred has it. And all of a sudden, it's not us sharing our opinions, it's your opinion's stupid. Let me tell you why. Ryan's, this is crazy and here's why it's crazy. And so I just, that's never been me as a person. And so I don't have to play a part on TV usually. And again, there's certain mornings where I don't hide my fandom, where I'll say, yeah, let's go Gamecocks, you know? Well, when my alma mater, Wofford College, Tiny Wofford was in the dance a few years ago. For two weeks, I was promoting Wofford, ties, T-shirts, went down and did a piece at the school and we were out in the first round. Yeah, but you know what, the buildup was great though. The point to get there was good. My agent actually went to Wofford. So his name's Joe Turner. I didn't know that. Yeah, he went to Wofford. And so we would talk about it all the time. So, hey, I am a supporter of Tiny O Wofford as well. Yeah, Joe Turner, Joe did well. Yeah, he did really well, man. Did well. He didn't study government like me, clearly. He must've been a finance guy. He must've been. My agent's from Columbia, way back in the day. Well, Tank back. Yes. Yeah, Tank was my agent. And then we sort of went through this entire thing. Yeah, you said yes, like that was a great thing. I don't know. I was going to stop. That was one of them times you should have probably hid your face from the depression. All right, boy, when he said Tank Black, I didn't know if Fred was going to go there. But Fred was very diplomatic in acknowledging his wrongdoing. Yeah, I mean, it's part of it. And a lot of what I try and do. Did he swindle you? Oh, he swindled all of us. Yeah, I mean, but that's sort of water on the bridge. But we all grew and learned from it. Things happen for a reason. Yeah, I actually did. We talked after he got out of prison. And I just asked him why. You know, that's it. And we kind of went through that. But that was the end of it, basically. And what I was getting at is I went there to secure my Mercedes Benz when I came out of college, a credit line, $50,000. And I hid this little BYOB spot right in the middle of Columbia. You remember the name of it? No, but it was a lot of fun. I was fresh out of college. But it was fun. I mean, it's Columbia. What street? I do not. We might have turned there the same time. Craig was in the back. But it was a lot of fun. It was Columbia, South Carolina. And it met a lot of great people. And I kind of wanted to get to what parts of impressionable young Craig that South Carolina may or Columbia may still follows you every day, every morning, that we get an opportunity to see you on today's show. My entire family is still in Columbia, literally. Aunt Sonkels, siblings. The whole family is within a 20-mile radius. I'm back all the time. There's a text thread that we're all on where I routinely get mocked if I'm wearing something that's ridiculous or I see something that's ridiculous. Trans-Williams. Yeah. But they keep me grounded. So they keep me grounded. It's interesting because Columbia, I worked in Columbia in local news and tell us 28. I bought a house there. My grandma could watch me every evening. I was dating a girl at the time. Like, if I had stayed in Columbia for 30, 40 years, I would have already exceeded most of the expectations I'd had leading up to that point. And I remember vividly when I got a job offer to go to Washington, DC, my grandmother, who's since passed, she was kind of like, well, why would you leave Columbia? You've been in small towns before, smaller cities before. And I had a pretty good life. And it was one of those things where, partly God, partly other members of my family, who were just like, you've got to go to grow. And you don't typically regret the things you do. You typically regret the things you don't do. I got to a point where I knew I would have regretted not ruling the dice. But no, Columbia, I tell people all the time, Columbia is a great place to live. Now it's become a little different with USC. Back then, it wasn't necessarily a great place to visit, but it's a great place to live and raise a family. And every time I go back, I go to the same spots, the same hole in the wall, like bars. When I take the family, the family, the bill will come. And they're like, wow, that only costs $38. In Connecticut, it would be $138. So you know what, Fred? I'm always skeptical about people who sort of forget where they come from. You know, people who don't go home as much, or don't really have that sort of connection to their hometown. It's made me everything I am. And more importantly, everything I'm not. You know, my wife, Lindsay, sometimes she'll poke fun at me, because I'm still, you know, you grew up in Columbia, South Carolina, when your dad's at mail clerk, and your mom's a school teacher, there's not a lot of money lying around. And I start to worry sometimes that it could all go like that. So I can be oddly cheap on certain things. Hey, nothing wrong with being frugal. Yes. Yeah, but that cashmere ain't cheap. No, the cashmere's not. To be fair, I've had it for three seasons. OK. This is my third season. So I retired after this one. Yeah, you know, you mentioned Columbia being, making you everything that you are, but also what you're not, which is just as important, right? The principles and the things that you'll stand on, also the things you won't do. We laughed and joked before we started filming, you know, Channing made a baby during COVID. You wrote a book. Yes. And in writing that book, you explored part of what also makes you what you are, your father, and his battles with addiction, some of him being absent, and working for reconciliation and forgiveness. What about that experience affected you the most? You know, it's interesting because it took me a long time to realize that it was impacting me, that it was affecting me. And I'd started to achieve some professional success. And I would still find myself angry. And just, it didn't sit right with my spirit, this relationship or lack thereof I'd had with my dad. I was, I'd gotten married. I was starting my own family. And we were, by all accounts, we were estranged. You know, we didn't talk on the phone, a whole I'd see him at family gatherings. We didn't have much relationship. And then when my son was born, I developed this bond with him and how magical that was. And I would go to therapy. I'm a firm believer in therapy. I've been going to therapy for years. And my therapist for years was like, you really should, you got to make peace with this relationship with your dad, not for your dad, but for you. And so, and I just, for years I thought about it and I thought about it and we made some attempts at it. And when he retired, he was, you know, he was a casual drinker for years. And then that casual drinking turned into just black out, drunk a few days a week. And when he retired, he didn't have anything else to do, but drink. And so I get a call one day. He'd been an offender bender on Broad River Road in Columbia, South Carolina. And he could have killed somebody and he didn't. Fortunately, it was just, and we got the family together as we'd done before. And we used it as an opportunity to stage an intervention. And we tried interventions for years. None of them had stuck. And so this time I called in an expert, a woman who specialized in this sort of thing. And I'll never forget it. It was a Sunday morning. We gathered around kind of like this, actually. We'd all written our letters about how much we loved our dad and the things that we loved about him specifically and the things that he was missing out on because of this addiction that had consumed him. And we had a bag pack for him. And we were basically going to kidnap him, throw him in the back of an SUV, and take him to this inpatient facility down in Statesboro, Georgia. So we sat around, read our letters, everybody's crying. And that was when, in my mind, I was like, this dude's going to get up and walk out of here like he'd done before. Lo and behold, sat there, acknowledged everything that we'd said, hopped in the back of that SUV, went to Statesboro, Georgia, hasn't had a drink since. It was the beginning of a new relationship between me and him. It was just a beautiful thing. My father was in his 60s at the time. It was amazing. But it also led to a lot of other things for me here. Because every family's, you know this, every family's screwed up. Yes. And you've got that uncle that you don't talk to for whatever reason, or you've got this cousin that's always hitting you up for money. So it was one of those things for us where we didn't realize how fractured a family we'd become. And then all of a sudden, we sort of rallied around him. And he developed this relationship with his grandkids. And all of a sudden, he and I were talking one time about addiction and redemption and recovery. And I was like, people could benefit from this story. I shouldn't do a story. He's like, yeah, or write a book. And I was like, I don't know about writing a book, dad, because I got a pretty demanding job. And then COVID hit. And it was just one of the highlights of my life to this day has been sitting in my basement recording hours of conversations with my father. Just talking about life. My dad was born in a federal prison in West Virginia, because my grandma was badass. She ran numbers and liquor. And so she had run it one too many times. And she'd gotten locked up. And so my father was born in prison, didn't even know who his father was until he was a teenager. And so part of what I came to understand about him and about others, and this is one of life's great frustrations. I think a lot of times we want people to be things that they're not capable of being. I wanted my father to be Heathcliff-Huckstable. He'd never seen that. If you don't even know who your dad is, is it reasonable to expect that he's going to be a good father? And so I try to expect people to behave and perform in a way that I think they're capable of behaving. And by the way, had I not done that, I don't think I'm sitting here right now. I'm not at peace. I'm not content. I'm angst-ritten. I'm angry of all those things that helped me overcome. You know what y'all need to do is y'all need to charge people to come in here for therapy. Because I've gone, I mean, this is going, I've been sitting here. It's been 10 minutes. You send me a bill. I'll pay the bill. But no, I mean, that's a long answer to a short question. Hey, Craig, you're actually like me, though. I've learned that in a short time. You one of those people that started therapy, and now you tell everybody about it. Hey, every conversation I have where people, I start getting on the phone with the wife, it's like, have you ever talked to somebody? But you know what? He's my therapist. My friends have told me it's annoying. Yeah. You know, you have a buddy. Buddy's like, I'm having trouble in my marriage. You know you should really go talk to a therapist. You should take your wife. I've got a guy. By the way, my therapist, Charlie, shout out to Charlie. Charlie's asked me to stop doing this. Yeah. Because Charlie's like, I can't take any more calls. Like every friend you send, I was like, OK, I get it, Charlie. That's me. I'm the same way, brother. But it helps. No, it's been amazing. But here's the thing with you, not to gas you out. You're a Ryan Clark, legendary stealer. All of them, Super Bowl champ, people just assume, aw, he's got it. All you guys, their assumption is, if you achieve any sort of success, especially if you play a pro sport in the United States of America, they're good. Yeah. They're good. You got money. Yeah, oh. You got money, you're fine. I mean, oh, it's such a. That's what everybody thinks. You got money, you're fine. You put the second part on the Senate's, because you do have money. I got a little. Yeah, I was going to say. But to that point, well, during COVID, you were writing a book and talking to your dad. I was making babies. So I think I decided better than you decided. I had a lot more fun on my side than you have on your side. You did. You did. Chan, you can also write the book and practice stuff. You could. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Me and Asia, we were good and after. Me and my wife, the kids are in virtual school. We got an hour. Oh, God. Kids out there. No homeworks, good to die. My wife got a room. But becoming, just along that path of being rich or being known, becoming the patriarch, because do you think without you, your father would have went to the intervention, do you think without you, the transition of being that patriarch, because we all had to go through it with success, money, whatever it is. But I remember shifting into the point where everybody's asking me questions. What should I do? My sisters, my mom, my this, my that. I just hit people real hard and run fast. Like, do you remember the moment when you had to shift to being a patriarch or your family? I do. That's a good question. I remember, because the reality is, you know this. No, you don't know this, actually, because if people see you playing football on TV on Sunday, they know you're not out there making minimum wage. I remember when I took a job in DC, I think my family, they're like, oh, Craig, he must be doing OK. And so people that I would interact with, normally all of a sudden, they'd say, hey, a rent, blah, blah, and I, can you loan me blah, can you? And at first I was like, oh, you know, of course. I won't name names, but oh, it's cousin, blah, blah, blah, uncle, blah, you know. Or then you would get the father of a close friend who would be, hey, I got this idea, you know, I need, blah. And so it took me a couple years to realize that I'm only obligated to my mama, my kids, my wife, and now my dad. And everyone else, it's a grant maybe, because you're not getting it back. But it's also one of those things where I had a conversation one time with a family member who needed something. And he'd always been there for me. And this was legit, like he'd fallen on some hard times. And I was like, oh, absolutely, I got you. I'm going to get it back to you. I was like, no, no, no, because if you say you're going to give it back to me and you don't, then we're going to have this weird dynamic. I don't want the weirdness. This is a thank you. So that was when I started, that was the financial side of it. And then all of a sudden, you'd start getting questions from people in your circle about, because I think people just assume that I'm going to show in the morning, and I talk to experts that I'm an expert on something. And like, and I would ask me about a recipe. So like, yeah, last week on the show, you remember you had Martha Stewart's on? You remember? I say, I don't remember what I talked about this morning. She said, well, you did the thing. I say, I can't. It's all blur. And so I would get, I'd still do get a lot of people asking me questions that I'm not remotely qualified to answer. But I tell you what I do, I use AI. I go, like, AI? I'm like, look at all. I don't even tell my youths, because they're older now. They don't know AI. So I just look at it and give me the answer. I'm like, oh, Craig's a genius. But what I always do, I've got two cousins now who are at Walford. They're my god sons. I do spend a lot of time talking to younger members of my family about the do's and more importantly, the don'ts. Because I didn't get a lot of that going on. So that was a long answer to a show. You don't have to edit. You don't do editing. No, we not. No, they're going to get all this Craig Melvin. You need to. You're going to have to. But I've gone out of my way not to use profanity. No, I use enough of it. He's like, I ain't never heard of cusses. Well, I'm not cusses. I clean up, but I've got PR from NBC over there. So every time I use a bad word, I get like a shock in the back. Shannon is the reason we straddle between going viral and being canceled. So that's who Shannon is. But that's where you want to live. You want to live in that gray area. That's a safe space. Welcome to Paris, Pizzeria. Your blind date is already at the table. And there she is. Cousin Brenda, what are you doing here? You're married anyway. Substitution brought to you by Paddy Power. Cousin Brenda makes way for Beth, the office crush. Oh, get in. You might not always pick the right starter, but your sub can still deliver. Because with Paddy's Super Sub, your bet rolls over to the player coming on. Paddy Power. Validant, selected leagues and markets only. Pre-match and in-play bets on qualifying player outcome selections only. T-sensees and exclusions apply. 18 plus scammerware.org. But you mentioned spending hours with your dad in the basement. How did becoming a father change the way you understood your father and possibly the questions you asked him throughout preparation for your book? I know. For me, at least, I was shaped more by what I didn't see than what I did see. And so I watched a lot of TV going on. I watched a lot of Cosby's show. There were other shows that featured dads. And portrayed them in a positive light. So I had that example. But at home, I had a dad who worked third shift. Because if you work in third shift at the post office, you make a few more bucks. He didn't take vacations because, again, he'd needed the overtime. It was all about making as much money as possible. My mom, at one point, and she was a school teacher, at one point, my dad's gambling had gotten so bad, my mom had to pick up a second job. And so growing up, I saw a woman who was working two jobs. I saw my father, in the throes of addiction, working overnights, sometimes working weekends. Couldn't be at any Little League game or any of my orchestra college. He couldn't because he wasn't work. And so when I became a dad, I kind of married the two. I took my dad's work ethic. He's always just been undeniable. And so I took that work ethic. And I took my mom's sacrifice. My mom was the first in the family to go to college. She went on to grad school, got a master's degree in education, grew up in the project. She's got a great story of her own. One of the first black kids at her high school in Columbia to integrate AC floor high school. And so I took these things that I saw from both of them. And when I became a dad, I was like, you know what? I'm going to be there physically, just the ministry of presence. I'm going to be at all their stuff. And you've been a dad a long time. A lot of their stuff isn't good. Ha ha ha. You know? Like, I'm sorry. He's a bad soccer. I was sitting at a dance recital two Saturdays ago in Connecticut. And you go to a dance recital for four hours. Your child dances for two minutes. So the first time I go, she's done. I'm like, OK, well, let's see. And my wife said, what are you doing? I was like, well, she's done. She's like, no, you'll have to stay. Right. I'm like, is she dancing again? I don't even know these things. She's like, what? My wife, Mrs. is like, no, no, you'll have to stay. I'm like, you don't have to stay? No one's going to notice. Coffee cup. Yeah. Coffee cup is the secret. By the way, I learned that because I'm just and I remember thinking sitting there, like I was so proud of my little girl. And I'm sitting there thinking, how did I get here on a Saturday afternoon watching all these mediocre children from various parts of Connecticut and the people are clapping. I'm like, why are you clapping? You know that's garbage. Don't pretend. So they feel the same way about they kid as you do about yours. I know. My son plays travel basketball. Yeah. I told him. I told him last weekend. We were in the Bronx. Not granted, he had come off of concussion, so he didn't get to practice the week before. He got hit in the head and playing dodgeball, but that's up to sure. So anyway, man, he was in that game. Might have been eight minutes, missed four shots, missed two free throws. And I'm not one of these gentle parents. Right. I said to him after the game, I was like, buddy, I know you were trying, but if we going to spend six hours on a weekend, you got to play better. We're going to put it in the basket. Yes. You're not going to be Ryan Clark showing up mediocre. Wow. So yeah. Because like a hoop, Chan, you see. Oh, Lord, don't get him started. So no, so I learned that from my dad. Just being present, I was going to do that. And from my mom, it was one of those things. I've said this before about the job. I mean, I'd have gone to the best school. I didn't come from the best family. I didn't get a head start in terms of money. But you weren't going to outwork me. You were not going to outwork me. And I remember before people talked about a work-life balance, I would do 16 hours on a Saturday at local news. I'd do the morning show. I'd come back to the evening show. I was a photographer. I shot video. I did all those things early on because I knew that I was going to have to work harder than most. And so I took some of both. Now, what I didn't necessarily appreciate is as your kids get older, it becomes I've had to check myself a few times. And remember that the same things that drive me may not necessarily be the same things that drive my son. Like, I can't be a complete hard ass with both of my kids and expect to get the results that my parents got. So I've had to kind of figure that out as I can't talk to my daughter the same way that I talk to my son. I get very different reactions. And it's taken me a while to sort of figure that out. It's a joke in my house because when I did football, we talk about I did football. It was I was at work early. I stayed at work late. When I put the kids to bed, I watched film. I wasn't coming. That was my life. And this whole big thing was you accomplished all of these things in football. And when you retire, we're going to get dad and husband. And then I start this job. And they like, hell, you homeless now, then you were when you played. I saw somewhere where you said, though, the sacrifices and the way you work, you couldn't be a good friend. Yes. Right? I think people who are workaholics grab things from people so they could kind of tell their close loved ones these things. I was like, guys, Kobe Bryant said he wasn't a good friend. He's one of the greatest basketball players of all time because he was working. How many times, though, did you think to yourself, is this sacrifice worth some of the things I'm giving up relationally? No. I never thought it. Never thought it. And maybe this is something I should probably take up with Charlie. Because I think if I thought it, I would be admitting that perhaps I did lose out on some relationships as a result of the work. I do know this. I know that when I was in my 20s, I was not mentally well. I was at least 20 pounds heavier. I did not see. I didn't have close friends. Because not only was I working all the time, I was working odd hours. Like, I was working the overnight shift. I've done morning television for a long time. I think that if I were to admit that, I would be also sort of admitting that maybe I made a mistake along the way. What I've always maintained is that people who are really good at something, you always sacrifice something. You're sacrificing time. For a lot of folks, unfortunately, they're sacrificing money. You're sacrificing relationships, whether it's a relationship with the guys, whether it's a relationship with the woman. We're all sacrificing something. I think for me, I had to make peace with what I was sacrificing. Carson Daly gave me some advice some years ago, because I had missed something. And he's got four kids. So I mean, and he's got like three jobs. So he misses some stuff from time to time. And he said to me once, he said, correct, focus on the quality, not the quantity. He's like, your kids aren't necessarily going to miss the things you're not there for. They're going to remember the things you were there for. And take some of the money that you make and take them on amazing vacations. And that's one of the things that we've really focused on with our family. OK, if dad's got to be up at 3.45, I probably can't get to that 8 o'clock concert or that late basketball game or practice. But when you've got winter break or spring break, we're going to go some cool places. We're going to make what the kids call those core memories. So yeah, do you regret some of the, because I don't know. We don't. I don't. My family doesn't have the life that we have in my opinion, if I'm not the way I am. Yeah. So you just said the quiet part out loud, because I was going to say it, but I felt like I might have made me look like an ass. No. Because I tell the kids sometimes, I remind them, say, oh, you like those Jordans? Oh, all this light you have in the house. The AC, oh, the pool. You were in the pool this week. Oh, I like that. Right. Yeah, that's got to go to the Olympics for a couple of weeks. But again, my therapist has maintained that when children see me, when children see parents working, that's great, because they grow up understanding that none of this is given. Like you go out, you hit, you get hit, you run, you cat. Like you have to do something to earn your way in the world. And that's a hard lesson to teach right now. Well, because there's this way to be instantly famous, or you ruin this microwave society where you get this immediate validation. But we don't have, or a lot of us aren't, brought up that way. No. Right? And how do you balance from that perspective, though, Craig? We talk about this. There are so many things I learned because of adversity of my circumstance. And it wasn't always that I was put in bad situations, but I was put in situations where there wasn't a tutelage of how to get through this. You learn through experiencing it. Right? You learn those lessons. My kids didn't necessarily have those lessons to learn. And I didn't want them to. I didn't want my parents' work to help me go to Catholic school and do those things. So my kids didn't have to go through the things I went through. But because of that, there are times I would have conversations with them, and they'd be like, I don't know what you're talking about, Dad. Or this thing doesn't exist, Dad. That's not how people are, Dad. How do you try to give your kids some of those lessons and experiences to know that this is what the real world is like outside of all of this that we've been able to build through hard work? That has become the number one greatest challenge for me as a parent and my wife. Because I think we do this as a society. We overcorrect. And we've overcorrected. I told you about my parents and how much they worked. And I was a latchkey child before they had a term called that we didn't know we were latchkey children. It was just what we did. And so as a result, I wanted to make sure that my kids live the kind of life that I wish that I'd lived. And we do that. Now, conversely, when there's a curve ball, we're picking them up off the floor. We don't have any Greek yogurt in the house. We just got regular yogurt. And you look around, you're like, OK, are we doing it right? They're not resilient. If you don't grow up resilient, then all of a sudden, my mom and dad's not around. And you've got to deal with some real life stuff. You have a rough go at it. And so Ryan, so it's interesting. I've actually started reading a lot of books about this. There's a book written last year. It's my favorite book, last year, written by a guy named Scott Galloway. It's called Notes on Being a Man. There's another guy that I'm reading now. He writes about happiness, Arthur C. Brooks. And part of what they write about is this notion that we've got an entire generation of kids who are addicted to phones. They can't accept no. They're not resilient. And it looks at what are going to be the consequences, not just for them and our families, but what are going to be the consequences for society. And so I'm struggling with it. I mean, sometimes I say no just for the hell of it. Just because you need to hear no. It's like, dad, can I have that? Can I have some Gatorade? No, you can't have it. Dad, it's right there. No, that I haven't had anything to drink in six hours. No, you have water. And I tell them, you have to do it. Otherwise it's just yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Validation, validation. And I do tell them sometimes, I'm like, that was good. That wasn't great. That wasn't great. Yeah, you're not that special. It's great, sweetie. You're not special. But now I'm not a complete jackass, because I start with, oh, sweetie, that was. Yeah, I was going to say. And then I'm like, I don't really civilized any talking like that. Especially with the girls. It's funny, Don Staley. You love Don. She came out of the quote. She said, overprotected kids become unprepared adults. And that's what you're talking about, where if you're always there, now they're getting real world down to what the hell's going on. No, they don't. But it was well-intentioned. It was well-intentioned. We went from, I remember I was learning how to drive. My dad had a 73-poundiacle mons. I was an I-26, driving back from my aunt's house, going home. And my dad worked third shift. And he was letting me drive. And he was nodding off. And I tried to pass and get over too quickly. And I kind of swerved. And he hopped up. But dad didn't say a thing. He took that left hand. Pow! I'm driving! We could have ended up in the end. But it stayed with me. If I were to raise my hand at one of my children right now, the tears they'd call child protected services, they'd go to the neighbor's house. Like, there's no universe. There's no universe in which you can even, you know? Like, that kid even. The neighbors is crazy. But sometimes what I have learned is that if I tell them the stories about when I used to get beat, like, that's enough to, like, right. They're like, oh, wait a minute. He's capable of it. He might do it this time. He's capable. You know? Do you know this is when they say we separate the room? So it was like, boy, it's cojo, you, myself, on Maury Hardwick. Like, do you understand you have pretty privilege in your career? If you didn't look the way you look with the pretty eyes and the teeth and the face and all. That's not true. Craig, you don't have pretty privilege. I do not have pretty privilege. You sound like you've been talking to some guys in my chat group, though. You a good looking dude. We're good looking people, so we can speak about this. What are you talking about? But I would also add, even if you looked the way you look, and you couldn't, you know, you don't have any sort of athleticism, you know, you just to do, you know, work in a minimum wage job doing whatever. Like, I mean, you still have to have some skill. Some skill. God bless you. You're skillful, but did it help? Did your appearance help your career? Television is a visual medium. Yeah. Television is a visual medium. But we have ugly people on TV all the time. I'm a fashion hero on the off-road. But they're guests. You don't have ugly people on your podcast. Yeah, we don't care. Yeah, you don't have ugly people on your podcast. I offset it, though. Great. This ain't the first time, bro. By the way, I will tell you, I was today years old when I heard the term pretty privilege. I'm stealing that. Really? I'm stealing it. That's good. It's something you should get a tattoo. But don't you think that people who are moderately attractive in life have an advantage just across the board? Yes, I said it. Yes. I enjoy it every day. I would take it a step further. I think if you look around, sometimes I will see a woman who's really attractive, and they might be with a man who is not remotely close to me. And then I wonder why. And then it usually comes back to one of three things. Job. Money. Money. I thought you'd forgive us a little bit. Or they're really funny and have a great personality. But the opposite's not true. Like, if you are, you know, like I think you got to have a little bit of both. Notice I deliberately didn't name names. And the cameras are off. I'm going to give you some concrete examples. Every time. Every time I see them, I'm like, I wish I'd worked harder in school. I could have gotten to the lead, you know? Yeah, it's true. Meet the new Hocus Speed Goat 7. Proven grip, comfort, and control. The runners who meet the wild head on. From steep climbs. To slick descents. And loose rock. Speed Goat 7. Run wilder. Explore more on hoker.com. Craig, aside from those things, which I think those are all great. Talk about some of the philanthropic work that you do. The Colo Corrector Cancer Alliance. Well, Fred, thank you for asking about that. So, you know, years ago, my brother's 39 years old, older brother, played football at Walford. And he was having some intestinal issues and went to a doctor. Doctor was like, well, you know, it's probably stress. Because at the time, he had a church, and he was also running a funeral home, and had two young children. And so his doctor was like, you know, it's probably an ulcer. We'll check for that, and we'll change your diet a little bit. It starts to lose weight. It goes back to the doctors. The doctor's like, no, let's try. Let's really change your diet. Add some fiber, you know, just 39 years old. They didn't think it was anything serious. Loses a bit more weight. Blood in his stool. Finally goes back. And the doctor's like, you know what? Let's just go to a different doctor, by the way, at this point. And the doctor's like, let's rule out everything. I'm going to give you a CT scan. CT scan comes back, and the doctor knew immediately. He had a tumor the size of a tangerine in his colon. And so he was diagnosed at 39. Stage four colorectal cancer. He fought. He really did. I mean, did the chemo, did the radiation. Like, did everything that he could have done. But he died three and a half years later. He died at 43. While he was alive, he became really active in the colorectal cancer space. And I teamed up with a doctor, and he was like, I'm going to get a little bit of a cancer space. And I teamed up with the colorectal cancer alliance. And we wanted to, first of all, get a bunch of guys who look like us to go get their screenings. At that time, the screening age was 50. It's been reduced to 45. We did some lobbying for that. And we wanted to raise a bunch of money to help people who couldn't get screenings, who couldn't afford them to get them, and awareness campaigns as well. A bunch of that stuff. And when it became clear that he wasn't going to survive, he wanted to make sure that I continued after he was gone. And when people are dying and ask you to do anything, you're like, of course, of course. We spend a lot of time talking about blood in the stool and getting your family history checked and listening to your body and going to the doctor and not feeling like there's some sort of stigma surrounding a colonoscopy, which is the gold standard. And so, yeah, we've done it for five years. And this will be our fifth year. Y'all play golf? Yeah. Oh, good. At all? Oquito. Well, we could still get him to come out. But we get a bunch of guys. I drive the car. I hang out. I'm good for vibes. Good for great. I can see that with you. Yeah, I'm good for the vibes. You guys see me being good for vibes. But we get a bunch of athletes and some journalists and some folks who are connected to colorectal cancer. They come out. We have a concert on Sunday. We do a big golf tournament on Monday. And in four years, we've raised about almost $4 and 1 half million. Wow. And all of the money's gone back to the colorectal cancer alliance. And one of the things that gives me great pride is when someone will come up on the plaza. Someone will come up on the street or they'll send me an email. And they're like, hey, I went and I got a colonoscopy. And I'm glad I went because they found some polyps. And the doctor said if I hadn't gotten a job. And so we're trying to save lives. And so I just get the sense that you guys believe this as well. And I've done a little research. So I know you do. When God blesses you abundantly, as we all have been blessed, you are duty bound, duty bound to give back. Not just write checks. Not just get not just do. But to use the platform to do some good, to raise awareness, to encourage other folks to avoid the fate of a loved one. And so that's, as I tell my wife and my mom all the time, I'm just trying to get into heaven. Because I know when I see St. Peter, I'm going to have some explaining to do about a 12-year period in my life. And so what I'm hoping is that I can say to St. Peter, hey, between the ages of 22 and 32, don't look at that. Look at this body of work. This is the better body of work. And also, too, you don't know how good a movie is until you see the end. Yes! You know what I'm saying? I'm losing that. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, it's OK in the middle. But man, at this end, we really turned it around. That's what I'm trying to turn it around. Or you could be Jenny from Forrest Gump and be awful for the entire movie and never have one redemptive quality. You just dropped Jenny from Forrest Gump. She was awful. She's the most awful. She's the biggest villain of any movie. You know what? I got to be honest with you. I hadn't heard that assessment until now. If you look at what he's saying objectively, it's hard to argue against that. Yeah, it's just terrible. You're right. There was no arc for Jenny. Never. Trash, the entire movie. And how has she managed to survive history like this? Because you're right. And people kind of, why does she get a pass? She gave Forrest a goal. What was the goal? The bad Forrest loved Jenny. He knew he was chasing a nasty. He didn't know it. But he still gave Forrest that finish line to get to, even though he couldn't get there. Maybe that was Jenny's redeeming quality. Jenny helped save Forrest. Help save Forrest. Man, Jenny gave Forrest a baby that wasn't his. Because then he would have been diseased. But anyway, the boy was smart though. But honestly, to all jokes aside, Alicia had been talking to me. She wanted us all to go get screened together. You haven't been screened? Well, yeah. But she wanted us to do it together and get it filmed. To just show people that it looked like. We didn't even do that story. Like, we would. But Alicia has been talking about doing that. How old are you? I turned 50 two months ago. Yep, time for screening. 40. Family history? I had endoscopy and colonoscopy. But I'm down for another month. But it was a while ago. It was a route to the tour. I'm 46. I need to go. I've never been. I ain't calling. How are you? Craig, this is not a glass half full. You're not supposed to be interviewed. Like, you're not supposed to be asking. You know the guidelines. And I know you work out. You probably eat right. God puts people in places for certain reasons. It's the reason you're supposed to be here. Yes. We're taking you to get screened. We're going to make it happen. Yeah. I'm a little disappointed in you. Well, he's gone. He's gone. It's a long time. Fred's a hypochondriac. He's gone. It was too long ago. It was 10 years ago. When I hit four, I was like. You haven't had one in 10 years? Yeah, it's been a while. Yeah, we got to go. I've been overdue. You got to listen to your body. I've been overworked, too, with these people. We are going to go. OK. We're going to make that happen. Yeah. No, no. But she's actually been pushing it for probably like a few years. Absolutely. By the way, I guarantee you, when you do it, you'll be stunned at how many people say, you know what? I saw that. I went out and got my colonoscopy thank God I did. Or this is one of my other favorites is when I get a wife or a mother who's like, I saw you what you did on the Today Show. And I told blah, blah, blah. And they went out. And I told them I was right. He had three polyps. And by the way, the thing with the colonoscopy, the best part is, while they're in there, they see the polyps. This is up right there. It is the number one most preventable cancer there is. There is no other cancer that once they see it, they kill it. And by the way, if there is some sort of a version of a colonoscopy, there's stool tests now. You've seen that dance in the Stool Kid, the Kola Guard Kid. There's a blood test now. The best test is the test you're willing to take. Do they put you to sleep? Because I tighten up. By the way, I'm glad you do. It would be strange if you do. And I maintained years ago that they sell the colonoscopy wrong. They could be poop before. And let me tell you. I'm not promoting illegal drug use. I'm not promoting any sort of elicit propofol use. But when you come up from propofol, it's like you're refreshed. You're rejuvenated. It's like you don't feel anything. Like you could. And I said to the doctor that day, I was like, you guys are selling this wrong. Don't sell the colonoscopy. Sell the propofol experience. Sell the experience. He was like, no, no, you can't do that. They do that. They do that. But yes, the drugs are good. This all started, by the way, guys. We were talking about family. Before we got here, which is a great thing about the show. Your family becomes your work family as well. They're an extension of you. And when you guys have a show that you have, and the closeness, and the bond that you share, y'all become our family as well. We recently watched Savannah Guthrie go through something unimaginable. To see her return, though, was obviously for fans of the show. But I think just for any decent human was a marvelous sight. And the love and the way you guys wrapped your arms around her, what does it mean to have her back? She's been in that seat as a co-host of the show longer than, I think, all but one host. She's been a fixture in American homes for a long time, and has become a dear, dear friend. And I talked to her a couple of days before she was coming back. One of the things I said to her was, obviously, we're elated that you're coming back. The show's not the same without her. But the message that her coming back sends to so many people who've lost a parent, or a spouse, or a child, this idea that you can be broken, but you can still show up. You can still put one foot in front of the other. And not just for yourself. She has small children. For her children to be able to see her overcome something so unfathomable, that's powerful. And there hasn't been a day that's passed since Nancy went missing, where someone doesn't come up to me at the grocery store, or walking in Midtown. And they'll say, I'm praying for you. I'm praying for her. I'm praying for Savannah. I'm praying for the family. And what you also come to appreciate is that the faith community is real. Like, there are more people of faith than I knew. And Savannah's talked about that, and how she felt those prayers, how she feels those prayers. And I think it's one thing to say that you are a person of faith, or to say you're a Christian. It's one thing to see it, but to go out and live it, and exemplify it every morning by just showing up. The God of the mountains, the God of the valley. And that's what she's living every day for us to see. And so it's just, it's been a sight to behold. It really has, because I'll tell you, when that happened, your mind starts to go to dark places, and you start to think about, and I just, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if I could do it. But she can, and she is, and she will, and we're all the better for it. So. Yeah, man. And thank you just for sharing that. We've all had people go through things, going through things ourselves. But to watch somebody so close to you, deal with a tragedy of that level, and publicly as well. I thought the way that you all handled it as family, and as friends, and as colleagues, and as coworkers, was not only classy, but you taught us, at least, you all taught me how to love someone the best you can in a very difficult time. When my brother died, I was in my dressing room. It was probably about 6.30, when I got the call from his wife. I was, you know, we knew it was coming. But even if you know it's coming, and when it happens, you knock on the door. Who's standing right there? Savannah. She swore to pray. She prayed with me, packed my stuff up, got down to South Carolina. When Chanel, Chanel Jones, her husband, had terminal brain cancer. One of the first people that was at Chanel's place, Savannah Guthrie. And so it was what made a terrible situation even worse, was here was this person who had always been there for us. When I was sick, she was kind of the mother hen. Like, she's the one who's always there. And we all just felt so helpless, because we couldn't be there. There's nothing we could do, nothing anyone could do, still. Which is the most frustrating part of all of it. I remember years ago when I became a part of the Today Show family, this little ecosystem that has been cultivated over almost 75 years now. I remember thinking, because I grew up watching the show, and I'm like, these people, they don't even talk to each other off camera. They don't even, when I leave here right now, going over to Al Roker, going over to take abuse from him. Al and Chanel, going over to do a radio show with them. I don't know, I've been told it wasn't always like this, but we're all legit friends. Like, kids play together. It does help that our kids are of similar ages. But we all, we hang out outside work. We give each other a lot of grief. I mean, if someone ever hacked our text thread, Chanel. Today Show over. GMA would win. GMA would win. If they ever got a hold of the text thread, if they saw some of the Carson Daily texts with me, and a lot of them sports were like, we'd be done. But we encrypt. We encrypt. They'd be like, these are not the people we want to welcome in our home the first day in the morning. Especially Al Roker. No, Al, it's funny because Al has become, probably my closest friend on the show. You know, Al's in his 70s. Al's been in the game a long time. And he's just, he's one of these guys. And part of it's because he's so old. He has this encyclopedic knowledge of everything. He's like an idiot savant. And if you ever go to IMDB. I'm so glad you're not my friend. What if I would stop it? What I'm saying to you, I said him all the time. Like he knows so much about so much random stuff. And we'll be sitting on set. It happened this morning. Today he made some sort of, he was getting ready to do a forecast. And we were coming out of the story about 50, the 50th anniversary of Charlie's Angels. He's like, guys, trivia question. Name the two characters from Charlie's Angels who were there for the original five seasons. I'm like, man, nobody knows that for you. So I had a great trivia question. And he knew. He knew. But he's also, you know, like when I get arrested one day, he's my first call. You know, like he's the kind of guy where if you accidentally caught a body and it's in your trunk, he's showing up with a shovel and a tarp. No questions. And you need one person like that in your life. Or if you're lucky too, you got two people. It's time to ask one of the best questions on the show. I'll be the judge. I'll let you judge it. Your biggest pivot in life. That's that one moment you can look back on and say, because this happened to me or for me, I am who I am today. Oh, dang, that's a good question. My mother, years ago when I was dating somebody she didn't like. She used to give me all these little books of quotes and sayings and these parables and stuff to hang on the wall. And it was her passive aggressive way of trying to get me to follow the path she wanted me to be on. And I remember for Valentine's Day one year, maybe a birthday. And I still haven't in my office. It was like 20 steps to lead the most successful life. I listed 20 things. Pray, listen more than you talk. Number one. It was the number one thing on the list. Marry the right person. Because that single decision will determine 80% of your happiness or your misery. And I didn't always listen to my mom. But I listened to her on that one. I married the right person. And my wife is, you know, my wife, you work with my wife. Like she's very patient. She understands the business. So she understands sometimes if I'm stressed out about a big interview or I've got to travel for work or if I'm sort of snippy at home, maybe it's not about her or the kids. Like she gets me. And so that was probably the best pivot. Like I pivoted from a life of debauchery and bad mistakes. In my early 30s, you finally meet in the right one. So yeah. Yeah. I want to say also, thank you, Lindsay. We got Melvin on the show. So when I hit her up, I was like, hey, I would love. I was like, is there somebody I could reach out to get Craig on the show? And she was like, Melvin would love to do it. By the way, she does that all the time. Which is why I end up at events at the library, doing stuff for her on. I've seen it before. I listened to it before. I see why it works. This is great. It's just dudes sitting around talking. That's because all we are is dudes. Yeah, we ain't got a lot going on. It's like me on a weekend. Yeah, we tell you. If I didn't bring any beer or bourbon. But I wanted to say before we talk about Glass Half Full, is that the thing I love about what we do is I feel like we get to see people in a different light than their work capacity. Yes. Right? When people always, I get this comment all the time, why don't you act the way you act on a pivot on ESPN? And I say, because it's a different job. I say, I'm doing a different thing. I have to be a different way. Plus ESPN pays you more. And you need that job more than this one. This is also true. But there is a way where you're supposed to, there's an energy I have to project. I have to make you think I'm really excited to be talking about the Las Vegas Raiders when they 2 and 12. I don't have to do that here. And what I learned here about you tonight, though, today, is that you are layered. But you're funny, and you're smart, and you're introspective. And you have a great way of connecting. Is that the way you see your podcast going? Because I was looking at the list of names, and it's everywhere from Regina to Malcolm Gladwell, whose books I've read. And so you have all these different people you're going to bring together. What are you hoping people get out of being able to watch? So when they approach me about doing a podcast, because I've got other jobs that demand a lot of time, I was like, OK, let me drink bourbon, which I love. It'd be great if I could do it at home. And please do not dictate the guests. Because in all of today's show, OK, 10% of the guests, I actually go out and try to book and bring in people I find interesting. The podcast, it's only people that I find genuinely interesting, like Shonda Rhimes. Shonda, I've known Shonda for a number of years now. Have you ever spent any time with Shonda Rhimes? She's a fascinating human being. Like her story is just, boom, Melody Hobson, Shaq. You know, every time I'm around Shaq, I'm like, if people only knew who you really were, no one would buy anything from you. You were just, I mean, it's just so we give each other grief. And he was my first guest. But it's also writers. I love to read. It's the writers that I find genuinely compelling. And some of them are controversial. I don't need to sit here and do a big love fest with every guest. Like I want to go back and forth a little bit. So it's one of those things we start every episode. You know, this week it was Lindsey Vaughn coming off that crash that ended her Olympic comeback. And I asked her, the podcast is called Glass Half-Full. I said, hey, in life, generally, do you see Glass Half-Full? Are you a Glass Half-Full person? And without Mr. the Beach, he's like, whoever says to you, they're Glass Half-Empty. I'm like, half my guess, including Mellow, including Shaq, including a lot of people who was like, man, it's not half full. But she sees it half full. So when you ask someone how they view life, Glass Half-Full, Glass Half-Empty, it gives you a little window into their soul. And we use that as a launching pad into the conversation. But one of the frustrations about my job is that this morning we had Bob Odin Kirk on. We had Reggae, Jean Page, and Hallie Bailey. And we get all these amazing actors and musicians. If it's a big interview, big, I might get five, six minutes. There's only so much you can get to in five or six minutes. Podcast, about 45 minutes. I could talk about your childhood, talk about your parents' childhood, talk about what kind of shoes you like. And it's interesting because I wasn't really a podcast guy up until maybe about a year or maybe a year or so ago. I was a late, late comer to it. But I just, and I also think that one of the reasons your podcast works, another podcaster, we live in an age now where our attention spans are so short. And everything's a sound bite. And it's refreshing to be able to do this, to ask a question, and not have to edit it down to 12 seconds to fit a spot. Like, we've gotten away from this. I think you could make the argument that there may be a correlation between our departure from this type of conversation, a correlation between that, and the tribalism that now consumes us. But that's probably a topic for another episode of Pitch. That's because tribalism, you can get in short snickers. Yes. Yes. Right? I can buy all the way into that and not know anything about it. And then, oh, by the way, surrounds yourself only with the other people who believe the same thing. And so there's this cacophony of noise that you're inundated with. And then all of a sudden, everyone's like wondering, well, gosh, how do they get self-radicalized? How do they come to become so detached from reality? You know how they became that detached from reality. They've been sitting at home for two years on a computer talking to other people who believe the exact same thing. And they just have their worldview confirmed day in and day out. And we wonder why we have problems. I should stop now. Because I'm glad I get it. You know what, though? I will say this. I know what we'll get from this. We've had so many people that are seen in a certain way because of the small snippets you get of them. And then they do our show and they'll walk up to it. And they'll be like, hey, man, Craig Miller's really cool like that. And I'm like, yeah. I was like, we didn't edit that to make him seem cool. Like that's truly what it is, man. So thank you so much for giving us your time. I know you're extremely busy. Thank you. This was a really, really amazing conversation. Y'all keep doing this. This is a public service. I mean, thank you. Well, I see that. But I mean, clearly it's not a public service. There's money being made. But if it weren't money, it would still be a public service. Man, I appreciate you, brother. That was awesome, man. Thank you so much, man. Now, that was really good, man. Yes, sir. I like your size. It's always. It was a pleasure.