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Joining us now is Jeremy Tedesco, Senior Counsel and Senior Vice President for the Countercensorship Task Force at Alliance Defending Freedom. That's a mouthful. Jeremy, thanks for coming on. Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for having me on. So most Americans still hold to the idea that we should be allowed to speak freely, but now there's a unique threat to free speech coming from the European Union. This is something we have touched on before in the past. There's new developments on this front. First, what is the Digital Services Act and why should we care about what's going on in the EU? The Digital Services Act is the EU's attempt at global narrative control. And that may sound broad and vague or overseas, or maybe it doesn't affect you, but it does. Because the whole effort under the DSA, which we call the Delete Silence Abolish Act, is to reach out and regulate American tech companies and force them to regulate speech on the digital platforms where we all speak and get information and talk about the issues of the day in ways that are aligned with European bureaucrats' views of what speech is acceptable. And that's, trust me, that is not the American standard of free speech. It's really the polar opposite. There's some just terrible, terrible laws and precedents in the European Union related to speech. And the EU wants to impose those standards on the global conversation, and they're trying to do that through American tech platforms. So it's a worldwide speech problem that directly impacts the speech of American citizens as well. So not to state the obvious, but America is not part of the EU. Why is the EU commission finding American companies, and could they actually do the same for American individuals? Well, what the EU is doing right now is they're punishing Elon Musk because he decided to take a stance in 2022 to protect free speech online and on social media platforms by buying X. I mean, make no mistake, when Elon Musk bought X Twitter at the time, in 2022, it threw a huge wrench in the censorship aims of the European Union and so many other global censors. Because all the other companies at that time were really bending the knee. They were all saying, sure, we're going to restrict COVID misinformation and we'll restrict hate speech and we'll start going even further down the path of censoring people's speech online. And then Elon came in and said, no, we need to have a public square online where people can basically have the freedom to say whatever they think without worrying about whether they're going to be punished. And so the EU is bottom line. They're punishing Elon Musk and X because Elon took this stance to protect free speech and the global marketplace of ideas. Thank God he did, but he is paying a price right now for that. And it's a price that needs to matter to every single citizen of the world and in American citizens as well. Because what the EU is trying to do by finding X, $140 million, they're trying to force them and punish them in a way that makes them comply with these draconian speech standards in the EU, rather than being the speech platform that Elon promised X would be. And so, I mean, we're in a worldwide battle over free speech. And Elon is in a citizen of the EU. X isn't an EU company, but the EU is dedicated to making sure that American companies comply with their speech standards or pay a dear price. And Americans are going to pay that price in their speech if X doesn't prevail. Now, as we've seen with Musk, he doesn't just lay down. He's committed to making X a haven for free speech. As you noted, when he first purchased Twitter, I mean, it was a seismic move and we really felt it all across this country. I can't assume he's going to just take this fine and move along. So what is he doing in response? Yeah, that's a really important question. In early February of this year, X filed a lawsuit in the General Court of the European Union. This is the beginning of a very long court battle. In the end, this is the first fine that was ever issued under the DSA. This is the first lawsuit that's been filed to challenge a fine under the DSA. And more of this is going to come. And it's really important that Elon and X have taken this stand on this first attempt to find an American company. I don't think we want to let the EU do this without consequence. Look, the European Commission has multiple other investigations open involving X as a target. And so there's going to be additional fines, additional findings of non-compliance coming down the pike against X. So I think it's really important for X to lodge this lawsuit. And then if the European Commission continues, there'll probably be more lawsuits challenging further fines that come in from the European Commission. And it's not just X. Meta and other US companies like Google, they're in the crosshairs as well. Every one of these platforms that control speech in the digital public square are squarely in the crosshairs of what the European Commission is trying to accomplish. What about the Trump administration? What stance have they taken? Have they provided any help to Musk and X in this battle? Well, the Trump administration has been great on this issue. In fact, the Republicans have been doing a great job on it over the last few years. Marco Rubio, Undersecretary of State Sarah Rogers, even President Trump and JD Vance, so many others have made it very clear that these attempts by the European Union to control and penalize American companies for standing up for free speech are things they're not going to tolerate. Now, what shape and form the administration is going to engage in trying to push back on that? We don't necessarily know what that's going to be yet. But they have definitely clearly communicated that it's wrong for the EU to reach out and try to impose their speech standards on American companies and ways to harm those companies and harm American speakers. So I think in the end, rhetorically, Elon has a very good ally in the White House and even in the US Congress where Jim Jordan has done just tremendous work at the House Judiciary Committee doing investigative work and holding hearings on the way in which global censorship, especially inspired by the European Union and the Digital Services Act, is harming American speech and American companies. So yeah, I think there's a lot of really important work being done at the White House in some of the federal agencies and on the Hill to buttress what Elon and X are trying to do in the courts. I think the other thing that's interesting about President Trump is, in some ways, he started this whole problem. The DSA really came into being for two reasons. That's too simplistic, but it's pretty much two reasons. Trump won in 2016 and the UK people voted to leave the EU in 2016. And the elites did not like that. They couldn't understand it. It was inexplicable to them. And so the Digital Services Act was a response to that. And the response was, we don't want you to be able to think for yourselves and definitely not speak your ideas because we're going to lose control and we don't want to lose that control. We don't want to be questioned. We don't want to lose our power. And you did that to us twice in 2016 through the election of Donald Trump and the UK leaving the EU. And so this whole effort out of the EU is to control what people can say to try to diminish the possibility of those kinds of things happening again. And so it is a grab for total narrative control in the Digital Public Square. And it's perfect that Musk bought Twitter, really because of Trump, because Trump was banned. So it comes full circle, right? Well, he also bought it because the B, the Babylon B, was getting their account locked because they were pushing back on gender identity and transgenderism. And so, yeah, I mean, Alon is in this to protect free speech. And the things that motivated him to buy X, I think the record shows, were people who were willing to push back against some of the kind of progressive narratives out there that they want to be untouchable and unassailable. But in a free society, you have to be able to criticize people in power and ideas that are wrong. So I just want to get clear on first, what law did Twitter violate and how did they tabulate this fine? And what options are on the table that they're trying to force him toward? Well, the primary purpose of what the European Commission is doing here is to punish Elon for defending free speech. The fine itself is based on a couple kind of narrow things under the DSA, the blue check they have on X, their willingness or at least lack of their willingness to provide access to their data, to researchers. And then there's one other component of it as well. But the question about how do they come up with $140 million, it's completely arbitrary. In fact, the findings of fault are largely arbitrary. The amount of the fine is arbitrary. And that's part of the problem with the Digital Services Act is these folks have extremely broad discretion to act as judge, jury and executioner on whether you're guilty or not and what kind of fine you're going to pay. They can go all the way up to 6% of your global turnover, your global revenue. So that's billions of dollars when you're talking about companies like X. And so we can expect these fines to escalate more and more over time. And I think the EU likes it that way because they can just ratchet it however they want to punish the companies they want to punish. And I think in the end, they either want to break up X or put so much pain on X that they just pull out of the EU. Could we see a scheme like the DSA here in the US, even with the First Amendment in place? Well, I mean, first of all, I think it's really important to understand that the DSA scheme already is present in America. And that's because the DSA exists. And the EU is intent on enforcing it against American companies in ways that harm American speech. And so, but I will say some of the states in the US like California, Colorado, Illinois, New York, they are adopting kind of pieces and parts of the DSA strategy in state law to try to essentially bring some of those censorship requirements or standards or outcomes that they like into American domestic law. So our legal team is fighting back against those things. Some great examples of that are our couple cases on behalf of the Babylon Bee where they attacked what the states call deep fake laws, which are basically laws that just say you can't post satire or satirical memes in advance of an election if you're trying to like impact the outcome of the election, or if you negatively impact the reputation of a candidate. I mean, those laws are clear violations of the First Amendment. And we've won those cases so far. But look, Brussels, which is where the EU is located, is trying to regulate American companies in a way that's inconsistent with the First Amendment. And there are certain states in the United States that are also trying to do that as well to control the speech that can occur on those platforms. We at ADF are dedicated to fighting back against those, that global censorship, whether it's happening domestically or abroad. If Musk should win his appeal, what happens next? Does it do like severe damage to the DSA, or is that just a minor setback? Well, I'm not sure it's a minor setback, but it doesn't resolve the issue. It would be a really great precedent to build on if he's able to win this appeal. But even if he doesn't, there's going to be more enforcement actions coming down the line that I think will be even closer to the heart of content moderation. Like I said, the current investigation in fine deals with blue checkmarks and research access and advertising repositories, the next thing coming down the pike is directly related to their content moderation standards and their willingness to mitigate risk by getting rid of content that the EU doesn't like. And so that will be even more front and center a free speech issue. So, you know, this needs to be battled out in one. I'm sure more fines will be coming against X and even other US companies. And those companies really need to stand in the gap for their users in these cases. You know, if they bend the knee, then everybody loses. You mentioned this was the first ever lawsuit against the EU for this. So are no other American companies fighting back? None of them are in a position to do it yet. X is in the lead chair. And that's because the EU wants to punish them first. I mean, you know, a few years ago, Elon and X pulled out of so-called voluntary codes of conduct that the EU uses to enforce the Digital Services Act. And so they're voluntary. So you're supposed to be allowed to get out of them if you want to. But as soon as they left those voluntary codes, the EU started saying, you're going to pay a price for that effectively in the public square. And so, you know, fast forward a couple of years, you know, that came home to Roost, $140 million fine, this first go around, and more is coming. And so there's nothing voluntary in the EU. They label things with the word voluntary. But the reality is, if you leave something voluntarily, they're going to fine you $140 million. This word does not mean what you think it means. It does not. It just means mandatory. Here at home, is there anything Americans can be doing to prevent movement in the direction of Europe when it comes to speech controls? Yeah, I mean, I think people should talk to their legislators and tell them, we don't want anything like that in America. I think they should encourage people like Jim Jordan and the folks on the House Judiciary Committee to continue their investigation of the EU and of the DSA and how it impacts American speech in American platforms. I mean, I think they should reach out to the president and ask him to do everything he can to prevent the European Union from just, you know, crushing American companies in American speech through these draconian enforcement actions. And so, and I also think Americans shouldn't be afraid. I mean, speak your mind. This is interesting. So Graham Linehan, who is a citizen of the UK, he's been in a lot of trouble because of his speech online. He went to Arizona to get away from it all, posted a meme in Arizona, flew back to Heathrow and got arrested because of the meme he posted in Arizona. Incredible. So, like, but don't be afraid. Look, the EU is going to, their reach is going to include American speech and Americans criticizing some of the terrible things that are going on in Europe right now, like our client, Private Ryzenin, being prosecuted for a hate crime for posting a Bible verse online. But we should criticize those things and not be afraid that the EU is going to take down that speech. The reality is if they try to take down that speech, it's going to give more fodder to the administration to say, though, this is a red line, you can't cross it. Americans can comment on, you know, Europe losing its mind on free speech and going completely gangbusters when it comes to censorship. And they shouldn't have to pay a price for that. Certainly empowering knowing we do have a pro free speech administration that that's not always going to be the case. So it is a fear down the road. But thank you so much for discussing all this with us. It's complicated. And I think as you've laid out, it's very much relevant to all of us here. Thank you so much for your time. Yep. Thank you. That was Alliance Defending Freedom's Jeremy Tadesco. And this has been a legal wire edition of Morning Wire.
