Buy, Sell, Hold Revisited: Big 12 + Notre Dame

Hello and welcome to The Audible presented by Trader Joe's. I'm Ralph Russo from The Athletic, joined as always by Stuart Mandel and Bruce Feldman, my colleagues. Today, we are concluding our conference by conference review breakdown of Stu and Bruce's buy, sell, hold. We're going to look ahead, look back, see how these guys did and see where maybe the conference, the teams in the Big 12 are heading going into 2026. We'll also hit on Notre Dame. We'll probably start with Notre Dame. They tend to get a lot of a lot of publicity. So we'll hit on the Irish. And of course, we'll do a Big 12 centric mailbag to put a bow on it. First, a couple of news and notes to start before we dig into the Big 12. a Big 12 related item, former Nebraska and also Oregon and also Washington State athletic director Bill Moose wrote a book that's been making the rounds, some excerpts of that had been making rounds. The two juicy items out of this, guys. I'm going to start with juicy item number one goes to Bruce. And that is Bill Moose saying that when they met with Scott Frost and he was the obvious candidate, the golden boy, former national championship winning quarterback from Nebraska. He had been killing it at UCF. When he met with Scott Frost, even he and his wife came away a little skeptical about whether Scott would be ready for this job. And Moose indicated in the book that Frost, that actually the candidate that he was interested in talking to was Chip Kelly. So, Bruce, Chip Kelly at Nebraska, you think that would have been a thing? I don't think that would have been a thing, guys. He'd been a guy who was, I think, intrigued by the West Coast. Obviously, he had a lot of success in Eugene, Oregon, like Scott Frost to some degree. And then I think what really appealed to him, he was in this time when Tennessee was open and Florida were open. And I know those jobs, you know, those ADs made a run at him and UCLA was more attractive to him, which in retrospect seems kind of seems kind of baffling. But I think there was a lot of pieces of living in L.A. And look, he's taken the he took the Raiders O.C. job, didn't give up his house in Southern California, then is now the Northwestern O.C. And, you know, he's still not giving up the West Coast living. So I just don't think he would have jumped. You know, he's never told me, oh, yeah, I wouldn't want any part of that job. I just don't think he would have gone after the Huskers job. I know he has respect for that program because he has a big respect for the history of programs like that. I just I just would be skeptical that he would have taken it. Stu, before we get to the interesting tidbit, I did have something that I recall from that search. I was at an event that was an academics event. It was a lot of university presidents. I can't remember who throws the event, but it's in New York City. I went to it a couple of years. And, you know, it's good to get to know university presidents, even though I'm just a dumb sports writer. Most of the people there are not sports writers. And one of the presidents or chancellors who was there was Ronnie Green, who at the time was Nebraska chancellor. and again this was uh the the position was already open they hadn't hired frost and i remember talking to him about hey you know big decision coming up and he what he said was well i kind of think we know who we're going with i was like oh can i quote you on that he's like no you can't but you know pretty obvious who i think the direction that we're going and this was a few weeks behind Can I just say I'm a little – sorry. No, no, no, Stu. Feel free to cut in. But it was just so – it just spoke to like how obvious that the consensus was on what they were going to do, that it was really just a matter of landing the plane. Everybody was on board with bringing Scott Frost back to Nebraska, Stu. Yeah, when I started seeing these excerpts floating around Twitter, I was like, is this real? Because here's the thing, like how much do we, when you write a book, there's no, nobody calls to get the other person's side of the story, right? I remember that once he got hired, it came out that that deal had been done for weeks. He didn't get announced until after UCF clinched the conference championship. But he had met with Bill Moose weeks earlier, and it was a done deal. They had met in the Philadelphia area, if I remember, when UCF played. if I remember this correctly, UCF played Temple the same weekend as I believe Nebraska played Penn State. And I believe that was the first, and that was relatively early November. And that was the first time that they had sort of met face to face because they were, both schools were in the same area. So when he now comes out five years, no, more like eight years later and says, well, well, actually, he wasn't shaven for the interview, and we were very skeptical. You wonder how much of that is revisionist history. Like, hey, don't blame me. I saw it coming, right? But, and then the Big 12 side, are you ready to talk about this? Yeah, you set it up. Yeah, he said he wanted to look into moving back to the Big 12 at some point. It's even more detailed than that. Go for it. Nebraska being in the Big 10 never felt quite right to be, nor for that matter did it for most of the Husker fans. A big reason for this is the school's location, deeply rooted in America's heartland, blah, blah, blah, blah, big eight. So he claims, he claims that he went to Bob Bowlesby, then the big 12 commissioner. And he was like, yeah, that's a good idea. Like, let's pursue it. And then eventually he had to, he had to stop it because it became clear at the region, None of the regions supported it. Let's say he had actually pulled that off. What would the reaction of Nebraska fans been? They would have packed his bags and sent him out. They wanted so badly to leave the Big 12 in the first place. And yeah, they haven't been as successful in the Big 10 as they would have hoped. But that just would not. So for him to say, well, I talked to some farmers and they said, you know, we don't like the long trips and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like it almost seems made up. Well, Ralph, correct me if I'm remembering this wrong, but so much of their Big 12 angst was really rooted into Texas was kind of the heavyweight and got the most favored nation status from the Big 12. And Nebraska, which had been a powerhouse in the Big 8, the old Big 8, it just wasn't happy about that. Now, it's ironic to look at the setup now where they're, at best, a mid-level program in the Big Ten. Nobody looks at them anywhere near the light of Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, or add to that, Oregon. I mean, it's just, it's such a different prism that we see Nebraska football through than back in the prime Big 12 days, much less go all the way back to the Big Eight. Yeah, the Big Eight, right. In the Big Eight, Nebraska was the big dog with Oklahoma. And then when it became the Big 12, it became a Texas-centric conference. And I think that always sort of teed off Nebraska a little bit. So, yeah, it's crazy. It just seems like that's a terrible idea. What would you do that for? Especially after a few years later, Stu, Texas and Oklahoma leave the Big 12. Imagine if Nebraska had moved back to the Big 12. you're muted, Stu. Imagine if Texas and Oklahoma, Nebraska moves back to the Big 12, Texas and Oklahoma leave the Big 12 and leave Nebraska behind. The chronology here is not exactly clear. Maybe not in the excerpt it is, but you mentioned Ronnie Green. He says, I separately informed Ted, Ted Carter and Ronnie of my intent to conduct an under the radar inquiry into possibly returning to the Big 12. Ronnie's response was that if that were to occur, he would probably receive a vote of no confidence by the faculty. Unbelievable. Interesting tidbit, but we don't necessarily have to go too far down that rabbit hole because it never did happen. Bill Moose, who knew a Bill Moose book was going to be so interesting and provide us so much fodder. All right, so now let's get into the Big 12, as it is today, a 16-team conference that includes neither Nebraska, Texas, nor Oklahoma. um but so you guys did your buy sell holds before the season just to refresh folks on where we what we're doing with this actually before we get into the big 12 before we get into the big 12 we have well did do two things we have to do we have to do notre dame but we also have to do a correction we also have to uh fix my mistake from last week we forgot georgia tech when we did the ACC. Simple as that. We forgot Georgia Tech. You also got NC State wrong. More importantly, we forgot Georgia Tech. Less importantly, we screwed up NC State, which screwed up Bruce's record, which he thinks is important, which is not that important. And Georgia Tech had a really good season. So we, you know, we talked about 16 other ACC teams and somehow left them out. But yeah, Matt is offering to take the fall for you. Well, but still, it's up to me. I, you know, I like to think I control my own destiny here and it's on me. I'm the one going through the list. I should have noticed Georgia Tech wasn't there. Georgia Tech was seven and six in 2024. In 2025, they got better, nine and four, even kind of flirted as a playoff team for a little while there. Bruce had him at a hold, so he was wrong. Stu was on top of it. He was on top of Brent Key's team and getting better. He had him as a buy, so Stu was right. So in correcting my poor math and getting Georgia Tech in there, the final tally on the ACC, Bruce, 9-8, Stu, 10-7. See, Bruce, you complained. You still lost. How about that? So there you go. I just want justice. That's all I want, Ralph. You're a lot better for me than how the Big Ten and SEC went. Can I just say real quick, Ralph, I know you're outside. You're not in your normal abode. You're somewhere much warmer than you were a couple of days ago. Just a couple of days ago. Oh, yes. This is a very different look, right? But you're outside and it definitely sounds like maybe there's a plane flying overhead or a loud air conditioner or something. I, yes, I'm not in my place. We escaped the cold winter of New York City and decided to visit my parents in Florida. So I'm actually outdoors. I'm doing the I'm doing the podcast from the lovely outdoors because I have natural light on my face. I get to wear my glasses, which is actually the way I usually look, viewers, to this show. I probably wear glasses more often than contacts. But yes, I am in a much nicer climate than a couple of days ago, which if those who watched the show remembered, I was literally bundled up in my apartment because we had lost the heat. The heat did come back on later in the day, but now we are in a much nicer place. All right. First, we got to get into the, we'll get into buy, sell, hold. We're going to start with Notre Dame because they are a conference unto themselves. They are a team on an island. And then we'll get into the Big 12. We'll hit a break. We'll do a few teams. We'll hit a break. And then we'll do a mailbag later on. But let's start with Notre Dame in our three, two, one. Let's start with Notre Dame. Interesting. I had an interesting time grading for Notre Dame. because Notre Dame in 2024 went 14-2 and lost the national championship game. And last season, Notre Dame went 10-2 and missed the playoff. And for both of you, you had them as a hold-ish, I think is the way our producer Matt put it in here. I actually kind of want to give you both credit as right for that. I understand Notre Dame didn't make the playoff, but I feel like that wasn't really their fault to a certain degree. I don't know. Let's review Notre Dame. But I think the way we should review Notre Dame is, do you feel good about your pick last year of Notre Dame as a whole, Bruce? I do in this regard. I felt like CJ Carr was every bit as good a quarterback as Riley Leonard. um i felt like in a lot of ways they were comparable i just felt a little bit like what you said is that um you know you look at their season in total i felt like notre dame in the postseason last year beat georgia they beat them like 14 to 3 or they beat them by 11 points whatever the score was and i felt like that was they were impressive they obviously handled Indiana at home in South Bend in the first playoff game. I thought it was a strong season, but I thought they had a strong season last year. I don feel like I mean if you wanted to ding us both and say hey you know it should have been a sell but I don think they were markedly worse I thought they were the this similar but a little different When I say different is I think they threw the ball better I don't think they were, you know, they ran it quite as well because of the right of the underpiece. And I think there was some elements of the O-line was banged up at times and had to come together. But, you know, I would I would I can live with it being a hold still. um i mean do i think they were much worse than the year before no but i think you know i'm not gonna i think you should probably you can ding me if you want um they were i think you could argue and noradame fans certainly have that they were a national championship contender by the end of the season but they did lose the first two games and those two games were against the two playoff teams that they faced. So whereas they teamed the year before, lost to NIU, but beat a lot of good teams and got into the playoff and beat even better teams. So it's like we never really found out, you know, we never, if they had made the playoff, who knows, you know, what they would have been able to do for instead, we have to deal with like months of hypothetical. I saw, in fact, I saw a comment on Twitter that somebody, you know, during the Super Bowl said Notre Dame, clearly Notre Dame would have given the Seahawks a better game than the Patriots. That's just a meme now, right? Can I say this? So coming off of the year they had, CJ Carr has a lot of momentum. If you told me he was going to win the Heisman in 2026, I would say that doesn't sound very surprising to me. Um, I think obviously you have to replace two really good running backs, but I like what they did in the portal. I felt like, you know, they lost some good coaches over the last year and a half. They gained some good coaches, right? I feel like Ralph, you and I had a conversation offline about, you know, what they added. They added two really good defensive coaches, one on the D line, one on the back end. And I feel like coming off of last year, I feel like they're really well positioned to, you know, if you told me this was going to be the best team they've had in the last three seasons, the 2026 team, I would be like, yeah, I could believe it. Yeah, I thought just to wrap, just to make note of the news. Yeah, Notre Dame's stealing Illinois' defensive coordinator to become co-defensive coordinator Aaron Henry is the excellent coach at Illinois. Yeah, generally did a pretty good job. Illinois' defense fell off a little bit last year, but now he's the D-backs coach and pass game coordinator. And you got Charlie Partridge, who's one of the best defensive line coaches in football. That's a great addition. Yeah. And just to sum it up, I think the Notre Dame, the 2024 Notre Dame team, the 2025 Notre Dame team, as Bruce said, different way of going about things. They maybe got there a little differently, but I think that those are relatively similar teams. So I'm going to I'm I'm happy to give both of you guys credit for getting it right with a hold. OK, let's get into the big. Yeah. Listen, there's probably going to be another situation where I'm not going to be so nice. So, you know, take your wins here. Let's get into the Big 12 The first four group of the Big 12 is a loaded group It's Arizona State The Big 12 champion in 2024 Fell off to 8-5 in 2025 With some injuries You both kind of saw that coming With Arizona State You both had them as a sell And you're both right I think though maybe you were both a little more optimistic Maybe not such a hard sell Some injuries and some things Went against the Sun Devils in 2025 and they fell off a good clip. They were still a pretty good team, but they fell off a good clip. BYU in 2024 was 11-2. Last year, 12-2. Reached the Big 12 championship game. Only two games they lost, the Cougars lost were to Texas Tech. You both had them as a sell. So you're both wrong on that because BYU at the very least should have been a hold. Iowa State 11-3 in 2024, fell to 8-4 in 2025. Bruce was really bullish on the Cyclones, had him as a buy after going 11-3. Stu nailed it, though. He had him as a sell in 2025. Last one is Colorado coming off of a 9-4, fell back hard to 3-9 Coach Prime's team. You both had him as a sell, so you both nailed that one. We're going to save Coach Prime and his team for a little later on. But out of that group, I kind of think Arizona State's an interesting one to talk about, because even though there was a pretty big fall off, they didn't play Sam Levitt as much. He was injured and now he's gone. I still feel like Kenny Dillingham has that program in a good place, Stu. I think the drop off, it's not just this reason. Sam Levitt getting hurt obviously is a big part of it, too. But Cam Scadaboo was such a huge part of the 2024 team. And he was always going to be hard to replace. and I think without him, I mean, even Sam Levitt, when he was healthy, didn't play as well as he did the year before. It was like once you get, you take out the guy who, if you remember in that playoff game, like almost single-handedly took them on a huge comeback to possibly beat Texas, like it just, the offense wasn't as dangerous, pretty simply put. I think the direction of the program is still good. Still have a lot of faith in Kenny Dillingham. You just wonder if, I don't know, let's say they go 8-5 again this year, and you'll look back and be like, yeah, that was really about Cam Scadaboo. He was the identity of that team. I would say that. I think he was the heart and soul of that team. Sorry, Bruce. Yeah, the guy he most reminds me of is a guy who doesn't play the same position but has some of the same pedigree, and that's Diego Pavia. He came from a much smaller program, and his just whole demeanor and whole temperament changes everything. And I felt like that was what we saw at ASU. I'm not saying that next year Vandy's going to fall the same way, but I definitely could see it. The things I'm interested to see next year, because Levitt was hurt, they were obviously worse without him. Levitt's not there anymore. You also lose Jordan Tyson, one of the, you know, probably be a top 15 pick in the draft, really good receiver. so we'll see you know relief brown is now at texas a dynamic you know all purpose back also gone so i you know i i think all three of us really think highly of kenny dillingham i'm interested to see this program next year because or next year i mean 2026 um a program we're going to talk and that i definitely got wrong um you know and we'll get to a little later is arizona But in some ways, I feel like Arizona right now is the hot program in that state. I mean, it's pinballed so much, you know, in the state between, you know, Fish has a big year. Then it's an awful, you know, first year for Brent Brennan and Kenny Dillingham gets hot. And now I don't feel like Arizona State's falling off, but it's the state is interesting in that regard. Yeah, let's hit one more in this group and then we'll take a break and we'll hit BYU. And I want to hit BYU only because, yeah, you guys were both wrong, but I think everybody was wrong, especially after Jake Retzlaff leaves the team late in the offseason. You know, listen, they had to fight to keep Kalani Sataki there. Penn State made overtures to steal their coach. Like, is this, listen, I don't know if they're going to win 11 games every single year. But it's just the staying power of that program, Bruce, has been pretty impressive in a lot of ways. You know, they lost their defensive coordinator in the offseason. But I'm just I can't I'm super impressed with what BYU did because I really thought that there was going to be a step back there. And they really do look like they are asserting themselves as, no, we are here to stay at the top of this conference. We talked about which of these programs could emerge in the new Big 12 as the standard setters, so to speak. And it looks like BYU has done that. Now, we'll see if they can do it three years in a row, but it's been pretty impressive, Bruce. It has. I mean, they've taken on Kalani's personality. It's a tough, hard-nosed team. I mean, look, and the revelation for them was what Barrett Bachmeier did. I mean, he gets there in the spring. He's a true freshman. And he plays like he's honestly the Tim Tebow of the Big 12. You know, it's not pretty passing, but he's effective at times. He gives you everything he can in the run game. He takes a pounding and they have L.J. Martin's a beast. The other run, you know, the running back behind him. And I think that gives them that fits in the identity. They had pretty good receivers, but it's a terrific back with Martin for sure. And I think defensively they got after people, you know, And I think, like you said, they're here to stay. I mean, Ryder Lyons was a big recruit get for them. He'll go into an LDS mission, I think, for the first two years. But that could time out well with Bachmeier there. So I think this program is on really solid ground. And it's probably the, you know, like, you just think back, like, when the 80s, when obviously Lavelle Edwards and they were cranking it and throwing it all over the place on people. but that program had an identity. Bronco had some good teams, but I feel like right now, the way they're positioned in the Big 12, they're really good. I mean, I don't know how much this factors into it, but they're like, they're pulling in some elite basketball players. The athletic department there seems to have been a really good fit for the Big 12. Well, Texas Tech's got the oil guy and BYU's got the cookie guy. And I think that kind of snuck up on people that they have their own, you know, deep pocketed benefactor now. But like, I mean, you're right, Bruce, like I've seen the rumors. I don't know how much they spent on the possible number one draft pick in the NBA. You know, they're able to like, they're, they're, they should be the favorites in the big 12 this year in football. They, they, they, they have a lot back. Right. And a guy that when you can retain a guy like LJ Martin for four years, like you're, you're doing something right in this day and age. So it may be, to your point, Ralph, like is one program going to separate itself? Well, maybe two. This is an interesting time period too for that state, right? BYU's on the rise. Utah came back and had a great year last year too, but now Kyle Whittingham's gone. You know, I think they're obviously very confident in Morgan Scali. He's been preparing for this for years, but who knows, right, what happened. So the combination of they kept Kalani Satake from leaving for Penn State, and Utah lost their guy, it's a moment. It's an opportunity for sure for BYU. Yeah, and I think keeping Kalani in part of doing that was a signal that, hey, because I think there was some question about this. Hey, we're going to take investing in football every bit as seriously as investing in basketball because I think there was some question at BYU if one had gotten out ahead of the other a little bit. and again i think with with keeping kalani we see our maybe we saw a nod to getting that fixed all right we're gonna take a quick break we'll come back with the rest of the big 12 right after this okay we're back with the rest of the big 12 buy sell hold season review uh let's get into the next batch of teams uh uh here's we'll start with tcu tcu nine and four in 2024 nine and four in 2025, sneaky nine and four in 2025, I think. Bruce was a hold, so you nailed it. Stu was a sell, wrong on that one. Baylor, eight and five in 2024, five and seven this past season. You both were a buy on Baylor, so you were both big, big wrong on Baylor. Texas Tech, eight and five in 2024, became the beast of the Big 12, won the Big 12, went to the playoff. Rough playoff game, But nonetheless, Texas Tech had maybe its best season in the history of the program. You were both buying it. You both bought in on the big investment in Lubbock and you nailed it. Next up, Kansas State. Next up, Kansas State. 9-4 in 2025. Fell back to 6-6 and had a coaching change. Chris Kleiman stepped down. You were both a buy and I was too. I think a lot of people thought that Kansas State was ready to build on 2024, bounce back in 2024. You were both a buy, so we're both wrong on that. You know, we've talked a lot about Texas Tech. I am, I don't know, I'm interested in Kansas State and where things go from here. You know, again, the margins are so thin, Stu, in the Big 12. the difference between nine and four and six and six is is a couple of close games i don't know if kansas state is that far off with colin klein coming in the great colin klein the former uh wildcats heisman trophy runner-up coming in to take over the program we saw texas tech separate itself from the pack in terms of the kind of players they were able to bring in in the portal I think most of the programs in the Big 12, Kansas State, Iowa State, you name it, like you said, are very bunched together, right? And, you know, Iowa State, I think, could have had a, you know, Bruce Trey bought them. Maybe he would have been right if they didn't lose their entire secondary and eventually Rocco backed, right? K-State, early on, it seemed like they were just having some bad luck. And then it just kind of unraveled from there. Avery Johnson did not deliver So I don know I mean Colin Klein becomes the latest like like Clark Lee like Brent Key like uh you know other guys who could Kenny Dillingham right Who who come back But like the difference is he was a Heisman finalist, like face of Kansas state football as a player. Now he's the head coach. It should be exciting. I have no idea what to expect though, in this next coming season. Yeah, for me, Ralph, it comes down to Avery Johnson. The people you talk to who are inside the program two years ago felt Avery Johnson was going to be a generational talent. He hadn't been that. I mean, it's been, you know, he was a big recruit for them to keep at home. We know he's really fast. You know, occasionally you'll see game-breaking plays, you know, with his legs. As a passer, he's been kind of underwhelming. I'm not sure if the coaching is going to be different for him. I know there'll be different coaches handling him. So we'll see. I don't, to me, I have no idea what to expect from Colin Klein. You know, I think he did a good job at Texas A&M. But to be the head coach, Stu did hit on one thing that I think is, I don't know if it's how relevant it is, but, you know, the fact that we're talking about a great player going in there to coach, I can see why that gets the fan base excited. We have no idea how he's going to be as a coach. you know like well not as a head coach he did a good job he's done a good job as an offensive coordinator but it is a very different job it's a completely different job you know he's got the job one is is get Avery Johnson fixed can you what can you get out of him we'll see what they can get out of him all right next group of teams we have starting off with West Virginia six and seven in 2024 coaching change Rich Rod comes in they fell back to four and eight I didn't find that's surprising though. Bruce was buying in on West Virginia, getting better. Uh, Stu was a sell. So, uh, Bruce was wrong on that one. I think he had a little too much confidence in Rich Rod, um, getting that thing fixed in one year after so much turnover. I am interested to see what West Virginia does from here. Um, and Stu was right to sell Kansas five and seven to five and seven. You both had them as a buy. So you're both wrong. That might be the team we want to talk about cincinnati goes from five and seven to seven and six bruce had him as a hold stew had him as a cell so um i think i have you wrong guys i think i wrote this i'll be both wrong we're both stew is wronger than me but we're both wrong you're both wrong on that one and houston comes in at four and eight in willie fritz's first year 2024 big improvement to 10 and three willie fritz doing that Willie Fritz thing. You both had him as a bye. So you both saw that coming. Let's I kind of want to talk about Kansas here because, listen, what Lance Leipold did at that program is still admirable. They had a big year. It's now three years ago. They had a really big year. And the simple fact that they're still very competitive, considering where they were, the Jayhawks were when he took over, when they were literally the worst power five at the time program. For years, for like a decade. Yeah. I mean, they were in the gutter times five. It was real, real bad. So it has definitely gotten a lot better. And I think Lance Leipold deserves a lot of credit for doing that. But now it's two straight years of five and seven. In other words, did they reach a peak that we thought maybe was the start of something, Stu? But it turns out that maybe that was the best it could get at Kansas? Well, first of all, Lance Leipold's done me no favors in the two years since I put him like the number three coach in the country. I definitely hear about that. I guess one thing I wonder is, so they had that 9-4 season and then Andy Kotelnecchi left for Penn State. And he initially replaced him with Jeff Grimes. That didn't go so well. You change OC again. Still hasn't changed. So how much of it is that i mean lance leipold has had some guys that have worked with him since wisconsin whitewater right or buffalo and and now andy kovicki is back as the offensive coordinator so we're gonna find out i think like how how important he was bruce jalen daniels is not still there right he is not still there he's on the nfl combine list and i did not mean that to be like a shot at the young man i just honestly like i i'm just losing track of the eligibility situation. I was a little surprised Avery, you said Avery Johnson's still at Kansas State. The quarterback, the program I want to touch on for just a second is actually with the program that might have the most talented quarterback in the conference, so he won't play the starter this year, and that's Houston with Keyshawn Henderson coming in there. Like, you and I, Ralph, you said Stu and I got it right. I don't think either one of us thought they were going to be as good as they were last year. and uh connor wegman played really well you know we saw a different you know kind of a different flavor of him i felt like in this offense and he's back right he's coming back he is and they also like dean connor's was a real like they did really well in the portal um dean connor's went across town he was a good all-purpose running back from rice came in i want to say there was like four other guys that willie fritz and it's funny his son wes is big in their personnel you know uh evaluations and everything. And they, I mean, somebody will do a really good story this off season on, on some of the reasons why Willie Fritz is such a good football coach. Cause I feel like nobody really has, we know he's really good. We now know what he looks like, but I don't feel like we really kind of get why he's been so successful everywhere he's been. And it's a lot of small places and it's a lot of places that hadn't really done much before he got there. Um, so this is more of like just a nod to him and also like i said the the most talented high school quarterback uh prospect in the country decided to stay in home and go to houston when everybody else wanted to try to throw money at him get him to come come someplace else yeah it's definitely a program on the rise you think so oh yeah i mean first of all i know signetti already beat him to the market on this, but if you, you know, Willie Fritz is another Google him, he wins guy, like everywhere he goes. Tulane, I think, you know, they're in the playoff last year. So it seems like they've been good for a while now. They were very irrelevant for what, 20 years before Willie Fritz got there and they had that great season, went to the Cotton Bowl. So Houston's always been, I hate that term sleeping giant because Houston has had some, you know, they haven't been bad. They've had success going back to Kevin Sumlin, maybe even Art Bryles, if you want to throw that in there. But now that they're finally in a power conference and they're able to recruit with that cachet, I mean, I think we've always wondered like what you could do given the location of that school. A sleeping giant or underperformer relative to the fact that they are in literally the hottest of hot spots when it comes to recruiting. They just didn't have the opportunity. until recently. Tom Herman had that great year there, but they were still in the American. And I think the question now, before we go to our next bunch of teams, I think the question now becomes, do they still have the level of investment to compete with the Texas Techs and BYU? As with a lot of the question around the Big 12 schools. Okay, the last batch of Big 12 schools is Utah 5-7 to 11-2 in 2025. You were both a buy. We both figured that Utah was going to bounce back eventually once they got their offense right. And oh boy, did they. So you both nailed that one. Arizona was four and eight in Brent Brennan's first year. And they were the big breakthrough team in the Big 12 in 2025. The Wildcats went nine and four. You were both a sell. And frankly, I think a lot of folks looked at that and thought, well, this is going to be two and done for Brent Brennan. So hat tip to him and his staff for getting that thing turned around. And you're right. Interesting place that the state of Arizona is in now. UCF 4-8 in 2024. Improved a little bit in first year of Scott Frost 2.0. You both had it as a hold, so I gave you both right on that. I don't think UCF got markedly better. They were about the same, maybe a small step forward in 2025. Oklahoma State in 2024 was 3-9. In 2025, it was a total disaster. Mike Gundy was forced out before midpoint of the season. Uh, you both had him as a buy and I get, and I understand why it could get worse. Exactly. You both went under the, under the guise of it can't get any worse. And Mike Gundy, he always seems to figure this stuff out. And oh boy, were you both wrong on that one? So I don't even know what team you want to start with here. We'll we've talked a lot about Utah. Do you want to, do you want to hit, do you want to hit Oklahoma state here? Stu, do you want to hit Arizona? Do you want to hit Utah? I'll leave it open to you. I think I'm interested in Bruce's take on Arizona because they were one of these teams that not only did I sleep on coming into the season, two-thirds of the way through the season, I still didn't realize, oh, yeah, these guys are actually pretty good now. And I feel like you know a lot about that, programmers. What happened? A couple of things. So, first of all, hats off to our colleague, Antoine Morales. I owe him a big, expensive meal somewhere because he was – I think he put the over-under on them at five wins. And I was like, no, they're not getting six wins. And they cruised through that. I think a couple of things. He made two really good coordinator hires. Danny Gonzalez is a good defensive coach. And they were aggressive. They got after people. They were really good in the secondary. And Seth Daigie, former air raid quarterback, old leech guy, they had an identity. They did not have that the year before in Brent Brennan's first year where he was running this weird hybrid. He brings Dino Babers in. there's some elements of jed fish's old system you know why i thought they were going to be worse was because it you know the ad was like probably was ready to pull the plug on him brennan after one year was not the ad who hired him and i think when you look at what is going on here um they lose tether tethero mcmillan who was by far the best player and you know the nfl like offensive a rookie of the year so it wasn't like he wasn't you know a real stud and they found a way you know like you get um you know it's just it's just interesting the offense got hot again and they got momentum i thought they played really hard it was it was impressive to me um hats off to brent brennan he did a really good job at a tough place san jose state he wanted the arizona job and he's done well and now they have momentum it's gonna be interesting to see you know noah Afifida, who was really good with his old, you know, high school and seven on seven buddy, Ted Aroa, you know, found a 2.0 without his buddy, you know, off to the NFL. Hats off to him. He was one of the best quarterbacks in the country. It was a really good story out of Tucson. And just as an aside to this, every week I felt like we were doing an Arizona game, you know, for our big for our Fox crew. And there would be times where, um, Chris Peterson, you know, was really close to Brent Brennan and he would always end up talking about Arizona. And I would talk about the other team as we were coming out of a halftime. And it was just so random where it was like, I have a dad buddy who was a really good player at Arizona and his brother was a great player at Arizona. And he would be like, why are you always giving us a hard time? How come it's always like coach He gives us respect. And I was like, well, there's a reason for that. But anyway, hats off to Brent Brennan, Arizona. I got them way wrong. As wrong as Stu was on that one, I was probably more wrong than him. Okay. Okay. And we're going to hit a break. I kind of wanted the bird sounds in the background there. I make it feel like we're at the Masters. So hopefully we'll keep that into the recorded version of the podcast. Because, again, it's nice. It's nice to be away from the cold weather is what I'm saying. Okay. Let's hit a quick break. We'll come back with some Big 12 mailbag questions. We'll hit on some of the teams that we didn't hit on during the buy-sell-hold portion right after this. And we're back for a little Big 12 mailbag. But before we do, I forgot I had to give the records, guys. And as usual, you're both around 500. You've been maintaining mediocrity throughout this entire series. So no sense switching that off. Now, Bruce, though, a little less than mediocre. You were seven and nine on your buy sell holds for the big 12 heading into 2025. Stu was a perfect eight and eight. I'll take it. In his buy sell holds. I should have probably added up all of them. I'm not going to do math on the air and how you guys did across all the conferences. But again, it's been pretty much right around 500 the whole way. So let's get into some Big 12 mailbag questions, which we'll branch out and cover a few other teams, starting with what I think is the essential question of the Big 12. Big 12 is top tier. Guys love the pod. Keep up the great work. We will certainly try. I'm an Arizona State alum, diehard Sun Devil football fan since the late 80s. In 2024, I was thrilled to see ASU win the Big 12 championship in its first season in a conference and thought we'd be set up to perennially challenge for the title. But in 2025, Texas Tech, backed by Cody Campbell, Utah, now backed by private equity, BYU, backed by Crumble Cookie. I not sure how much of that is true but seemingly has emerged as the top tier of the Big 12 They all look to have a financial backing to stay on top Do you think those three programs will truly separate and become the gatekeepers of the Big 12 championship? What can other programs like ASU, Baylor, K-State, just to name a few, maybe Iowa State, do to keep pace with Tech, Utah, BYU? Thanks, George S. from Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Stu, what do you think? No question. The programs he mentioned, right, have that kind of added help. But I will say that Texas Tech and Cody Campbell, right, that was the last year before revenue sharing that they built that roster with the David Bailey's and everybody. Now everybody, if they are spending the full amount, can spend that 14 million or whatever it may be out of their rev share cap. And you can, if you deploy it right, you can build a good team. And the other thing is, I think it gets people simplify this a little too much. Like, we're just going to go out and buy the best team. You've still got to have the right coach. You can spend a lot of money on a roster, and then you don't have the right coach, or you don't have the right staff, and they totally bungle it. And, you know, I think we're high on Kenny Dillingham. The thing that worries me about ASU in that conference is they just have never had— And if you guys have covered games at ASU over the years, a lot of empty seats. It's just they're in a pro market. It's been hard to get consistent support. I think they did it coming off that Big 12 title season, but can they sustain it? And you don't worry about that at BYU or Texas Tech or Utah. Like those are rabid, hostile places to go play in. But no, I don't think we're looking at a thing. I don't think we're looking at a situation where like 10 years from now, BYU and Texas Tech have become the Ohio State and Michigan of the Big 12. There's plenty of programs that can contend for the title, I think. Yeah, I think you nailed it, Stu, to a certain degree there with this idea of like, well, revenue sharing is going to force some schools to step up. Now, I still think the schools that have more will have a chance to be more successful. But as much as we saw Texas Tech pivot and become a better, you know, and become a little more like a blue blood last season. I am still going to be a little skeptical that the, that what was the big 12's calling card for the first couple of years or what it thought it was going to be the calling card hasn't gone away. And the big 12's calling card was supposed to be balance parity to a certain degree. Anything can happen. You know, we still had a little bit of an anything can happen conference, right? Arizona shot up the standings and a couple of teams fell back and you know, Kansas State was a couple of kicks away from a good season And Iowa State was a couple of injuries away from possibly contending So I still think the Big 12 will be a bit of that type of conference Where you'll never quite know what's going to happen I still think that will be a part of the Big 12's DNA But, you know, we could be sitting back here after another Texas Tech BYU Big 12 championship game in a few months and maybe we'll have to reassess. But I still think it's that type of conference, Bruce. All right. Guys, a good Big 12, big picture question from John Eckroth in Virginia. Thanks for the great content you consistently produce, particularly in the offseason. Thank you, John. Okay. His question is, what's the Big 12's identity? The new mix of teams seems to be keeping the league from establishing an identity in the way we see from the Big 12, from the SEC, the Big 10, and the ACC. If they don't have one yet, how do they create one, Ralph? Yeah, it's interesting because it goes back to what I think I was just saying. It's this idea that I thought their identity was going to be, we're going to play close games every week, right? We're going to be hyper competitive. All of our games are going to be exciting. But then last year, the SEC was actually playing closer games more often than not. Like I think all of college football is now a little bit more close games, competitive games. There's no one one team that really stands out above the rest. So the rest of college football kind of stole a little bit of that from the Big Ten, from the Big 12. Its identity, Bruce, used to be quarterbacks, offensive innovation, right? That for a long time was the was the Big 12's identity. And it's kind of moved away from that, not because of that. That's not to its detriment. I just think offensive innovation has fallen back a little bit in college football, right? We're not just spread offenses everywhere. So that's changed a little bit. I almost feel like, I don't know, like to bring in a little basketball thing. Today, the Big 12 announced it was going to be playing its conference men's basketball tournament on a glass floor, right? This new, it's going to look very cool. It's going to, it sounds very cool, but it is also like a little gimmicky. Like it's not. And your mark teased that, by the way, a few days ago in an interview as like a major and we have a major big 12 basketball tournament announcement coming. And it turns out it was glass floor. Yeah. And so they've had like concerts at halftime and they've tried to do things to be cool and hip and shack. And it's all good. I mean, attention is good. We are living in an attention based value society. So I understand why you need to do those things. But I also find myself wondering if if you're just kind of the gimmick conference to a certain degree, but that there's a little lack of meat and potatoes there when it comes to how you're going to win more football games, how you're going to win playoff games. you know, two years in a row, they were a one bid league. Arizona State played pretty well last year. We all thought Texas Tech had a chance to compete and got shut out in the in the in the playoffs. So this is not to say that all hope is lost in the Big 12. But I am wondering, like, if they are going to kind of go through a little bit about identity crisis, because they're not the offense league with the Texas quarterbacks. And they're not the parity league where everything can happen because everybody else has a little bit of that going. on too. So I don't know. I don't know if you guys have anything to add on this, but I'm not exactly sure what the Big 12's identity is, Stu. It is a lot of the Brett Yormark, like what bells and whistles can I throw out there to get us a little bit of attention, right? And he made a big splash right off the bat with adding the schools that he added. And it's like, okay, that's done. The TV deal is set. What can I do now? And so my reaction when I saw that this morning about the glass basketball court was like, if I'm a big 12 fan of a school, I'm thinking, well, that's nice, but like, make us better in football. Like get us, get us, you know, multiple teams in the playoff. And I think right now the identity is in football is kind of like a little engine that could, right? It's not a group of five conference by any means, but like, nobody's putting it in the same breath as the big, the big 10 in the SEC. They've been a one bid league. Those teams haven't won their first game. Obviously, Arizona State came close in the playoff. So and let's be honest, like nobody's watching their games. It's you know, you see those lists of the top games every week. They were watching Colorado when Colorado had it going, but most of their games do not draw big audiences. And so how do you change that by winning? You know, BYU plays Notre Dame next year. They got to beat Notre Dame, right? They got to they got to establish credibility. They haven't have those big non-conference wins either early in the season or post-season. Once you start doing that, then people might start talking about the conference, you know, more like they used to do in the old days. Like you said, we're like, oh, this is the up-tempo conference. This is the great quarterback conference. But right now, they just can't seem to kind of put a stamp on things. All right, last question, guys, from Dan Maloof in Washington, D.C. What went wrong for Colorado and is it fixable, Bruce? For the past three years, Colorado's story has been Deion's story. Whatever they were doing clearly fell apart in the back half of 2025. What went wrong? Is it correctable? And should Colorado have hope going forward? It's a good question. I think what went wrong is they lost a lot of star power, right? I mean, no secret, they lost a really good quarterback who'd been a big part of the identity for Deion Sanders, both at Jackson State and obviously in Boulder, in Shador Sanders. and they lost a generational talent in Travis Hunter. They were elite at receiver. And I felt like, you know, they weren't very good on the O-line, but I felt like they were playing seven-on-seven football. And they could be dangerous because the quarterback was good enough and the receivers were really, really explosive. Well, those guys were gone. By the way, it wasn't just those two. They lost, you know, Jimmy Horn Jr. and they lost LeJonte Wester. They lost some really good receivers on top of just losing a 2-8 phenomenon. so now the bottom I don't know if it dropped out because I mean they were they're still a little better than they were before he got there but then you lose Jordan Seaton who's as talented an offensive lineman it was a big recruit for Dion he ends up going for way more money to LSU I I think they had one of the more interesting hires of the offseason they add Brennan and Marion Brennan Marion had been the head coach for one year at Sacramento State did pretty well But Brendan Marion at UNLV was a terrific offensive coordinator for Barry Odom. When that program got turned around, he knows how to run the football. He brings his go-go offense. He's been an OC at FCS programs. And I'm interested to see how that works out with he and Dion, because he's got a big personality, too. He definitely, his teams play with a chip on their shoulder. We'll see how it's going to work with Juju Lewis, who is a former high top 50 recruit from Georgia, who played some last year. He's not a super dynamic runner, but he can move a little bit, and we'll see how that goes. They added some good players in the portal. Danny Scudero was like a highly, highly productive receiver from Sac State. He's little, but he makes a lot of plays, and I think he'll probably fit well in this system. I don't know if where I am with this Ralph is I think they can certainly be better than last year because they weren't very good last year. Now they have I think they'll have an offensive identity because I go back to what it looked like at UNLV previously when they weren't very good. They got pretty good. But now you mentioned some of those upper level teams. I don't think talent-wise they're going to be able to go toe-to-toe in the trenches with BYU or whatever's left at Utah or certainly Texas Tech with the way they're recruiting. I think the best thing right now in the short term they can hope for is to get to 6-6. I don't know if they can do that this year. Juju Lewis is definitely talented. I'm interested to see what Brennan Marion gets out of him. Yeah, just one quick thing. Danny Scudero, San Jose State, not Sykes State. Yeah, San Jose State. You had said Sac State because I think you had Brent Marion on the mind there. All I will say to put a bow on Colorado is you can't, you got to recruit high schools. Like you got to have some kind of, they're turning over this roster with the transfer portal. Again, they've got like 40 guys. Well, I feel like nobody ever acknowledges the elephant in the room with Dion. It's his health. I mean, he's had some really serious health issues the last couple of years. So I don't think, you know, people say like, oh, he can't recruit high school players. I mean, from what I understand, it's hard for him to get on a plane and fly around the country. Right. So puts him at a disadvantage. I'm not saying whether he regardless of why he's not, you you have to. Yeah. And they're not. And they're turning over this roster drastically every year through the portal. And I just don't think that's a sustainable way to have success. It's hard, Ralph. The biggest recruit he's gotten out of the portal since he's been in Boulder, I'm sorry, out of high school recruiting, was Jordan Seton. He had him for two years. He was pretty good last year. And then he ended up going for way more money. No, sure. But there has to be a little bit more of a bait. I just don't. The simple premise, you cannot constantly be turning over your roster through the portal every single year. And that's what they've essentially done. I just don't think the portal offers enough talent. I just don't think there's a deep enough talent pool in the portal. They also aren't playing with the same pool of money as Bosa. They don't have much money. And there's a new AD, Rick George, who was a really good partner. He's retired. It would behoove them to be great high school recruiters because those guys are cheaper than the portal guys. But I didn't come out of this little exchange with much optimism for the future of Colorado football. All right, guys, who's getting the $16 Trader Joe's gift card this week? I like the first one from George in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, about the – is there any way to keep pace with all the oil money and cookie money and private equity money of those three programs? I'm down with that one. I'll vote for that one. And so I'm not even going to let you chime in here, Bruce. I'm going to agree with you guys, so it's the three across the board. All right. That's rare, actually. a unanimous vote. So, George, send your mailing address to theaudiblepod at gmail.com. I'm glad we did this buy, sell, hold format. That was fun, good content for a couple weeks. We will have to move on to our next gimmick, much like Brett Ormark, in next week. So send questions about anything you want. It's no longer conference by conference. Send your emails to theaudiblepod at gmail.com. We'll see you next time.