Does Harden Make The Cavs Contenders? How Wide Open Is The East?

Hello, welcome to the hook collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, what you're doing on Monday morning after midnight. Eastern time Sunday night Monday morning. Joining us from New York City. Tim Bontebs. Hello everybody. Join us from Los Angeles. So Bontebs. The man was in Oklahoma City on Saturday. Had a beautiful seat right in the front row. Hold out of TV time. Yeah, for the thunder. Game as is this as is way a lot of TV time for me. That's right. That's how he rolls. And I was leaving out of LA tonight and the the plane was coming in from Oklahoma City. So this might be like man's flight. Oh no. Man doesn't fly regional jets. He doesn't he doesn't fly. He doesn't fly. He doesn't fly. He doesn't drive to Oklahoma City. He does not fly regional jets. This. This guy changed planes. So fly a big plane so that he wouldn't he couldn't be he wouldn't take the nonstop. That is insane stuff. It's been McMahon. Howdy partners as usual. There are elements of truth through your story. It is not a bias against regional jets. I simply arranged my trial to where I would be able to get to the hotel and time to watch the Super Bowl. That was a huge mistake. Listen, it wasn't the most exciting game in the world, but I got a little bit of a Patriots lost. That's all I don't I don't miss Super Bowl. I can never miss the Super Bowl since I've been I don't know five years old. So what was your first Super Bowl that you remember? I don't mind. You know what? I don't know. That's a good question. I don't know. I totally price out our audience here. No, the so the first football game that I vividly remember was not a Super Bowl, but it was Dwight Clark making the catch. So the cowgirl didn't didn't make the Super Bowl. Yeah, he is old. Well, you just showed your hand right there, buddy. You know, whatever. I also have a great memory. Here's why I vividly remember that. My older brother, because I burst into tears and was just like melting down, my brother became a 49ers fan that night and remains one to this day. So I wonder where you got it from. Very serious. What are we got the where do where you got the that streak from in your in your personality? I know I was Bill's Giants when I was six. I was those mine and wonderful memory. And which which I don't which bills lost was that I don't remember how I went. I was the first one. The first one in the closest one. All right, that was Norwood. That's right. Why? Sorry, sorry. First one I remember was Giants. I remember these giant games, Giants Broncos, L-Wavers Phil Sims. I don't think it was close. It was not close. Yeah. All right. There's our football talk. And that concludes our football analysis. Yes. We're all. That's right. People are shutting it down. Go ahead and I don't know why I listen to these old guys. Yeah. All right. So this weekly interesting weekend in the NBA. Some significant games. The NBA taking over. Sorry to take over the weekends. Now lots of national TV games over the weekend. I wiped a tear away when football season ended. Not because I'm on this football. But because it means our lives are about to be over. You're a little dramatic. Yeah. More than a little this life is pretty good. ESPN is going to be like, oh, that's right. There's basketball on the NBA certainly becomes a larger priority. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Um, that's right. Anyway. So, uh, a number of games this weekend, one of the interesting ones was James Hardin's debut with the calves in Sacramento on Saturday night. Now it's hard to kind of tell Sacramento's loss like 13 on a row. It's kind of hard to tell when they're tanking. Um, no, they're tanking when they pull the starters for crunch time. It's a pretty clear tank. Well, that's, well, that's a whole nother story, but they didn't even on Friday. They only played some of their starters like 18 minutes. I think Zach would need played 18 minutes on Friday against the Clippers. But so one of the things that the calves, you know, they came back. They were down the fourth quarter. They came back in one. It was, uh, you know, the Kings folded down the stretch because, you know, they were playing a bunch of guys who were just either on two ways or just converted from two ways. Um, and it's a lot of Rosen did finish the game. But, um, anyway, you know, the calves are talking about how James Hardin like, you know, James Hardin and Don of the Mitchell both had big fourth quarters that they played their first game together, both at over 15 points in the fourth quarter. I think that was the first time that had happened two different players, some like that. First time that had happened in the play by play era. Some of that in their first game. I don't know whatever it was. Anyway. And after the game, Kenny Eccleson was, you know, praising James Hardin because he's like, you know, he didn't even have a practice or a shooter. I just came and we, we got going. I was like, wait a minute. James Hardin got traded on Tuesday. The calves were in Los Angeles. Okay. Was he? Yes. Well, he was in Phoenix on Monday, but by Tuesday, he was in Los Angeles. I thought he said in Phoenix. Well, we're Motto Shelver and wrote this whole story where he was going and saying goodbye to everybody. Oh, yeah, that's right. He went to the facility and did all that. We got to Tuesday. The calves were the calves played one day against the Clippers. James did not come to the game. Well, I shouldn't say that. He might have been in the back. He didn't come out. Darius Garland sat on the Clipper bench and was regaled by his teammates and welcomed by the fans. But Hardin, like, I don't know. He wasn't there. I don't know where he went. I don't know what he was, but he didn't practice on Wednesday. He didn't practice on Thursday. He didn't practice on Friday. He didn't come to shoot around on Saturday. So, so I was like, okay, well, look, you get traded like, you know, you have to get your life together, I guess. I guess. But he didn't practice. Then yesterday during the day, a commercial comes out on social media with James Hardin, a new adidas commercial with him talking about going to play in Cleveland. I guess what he was doing. I don't for all I know, he thought there were, you know, he shot this commercial a while ago, knowing that there's a chance, you know, he that he, maybe he did like seven of them, you know, places. I don't have the information about is his movements. I'm just saying a commercial came out where he said he's walking around showing off his new shoes. They look pretty, they look pretty cool to be honest with you. Fire fire fire. I am not the the target demographic, but I thought they look pretty, I thought that was an effective shoe ad. It was him so fine. So we're saying. Did you guys even see it? Do you guys see it? I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. See it. All right. It he's like, I'm headed out east. I'm going to the land. I guess it could have been like AI dubbing that it was a different commercial. By point, as a commercial came out that made it look like he had filmed it in the previous three days and he did not practice. It sounds like to me. He was crazy. It sounds like to me. Caves corner has gotten its first full dose of James Harden experience. That's what I. That's what it sounds like to me. And scored about your points. They played cricket. Yeah. He came in and up when the game like this is the James Harden experience all the way around. Like, you know, he he had a good game. The Caves won. He got there seemingly Saturday afternoon. Didn't watch anything. Just one more thing. Sorry to cut you off. I asked. That's all good. I said, well, he didn't even have shoot around. And I was told, well, the shoot round was optional. You know, sometimes teams when they've had a practice stuff, they'll have like just an optional shoot around because they've gone over their game plan of practice. And typically it's the quote unquote stay ready guys. Usually the usually the guys who've been trying to do a team will be around to like learn exactly. I said, well, why was it optional if the guy hadn't. All right. I don't have the full information. I wasn't with the team in Sacramento. I may be screwing all this up and I may have to apologize to the Caves tomorrow. No, they're like, hey, we're playing the Kings. You know, we have to prep that. Well, that's the SharePoint. They're trying to lose and it's fine. Listen, you go ahead. You know who has had the full James Harden experience over and over and over again. You. Gerald Mori. Oh, and man. Oh my God. Darryl Mori. I mean, what a spicy little press conference he had. Like forget the little javvy took a Jare McCain selling high. When Darryl Mori said that, that's what the Tipper said when they traded the last time that somebody made a deal with with Oklahoma said, yeah, we sold high on shagos. I'm just. They didn't say that. They didn't say that. Aggra Gers. They didn't say that. I'm not sure. McCain is going to have that kind of impact. No, Casey, but when Mori said, no, you look at the moves made by our Eastern Conference competitors. And basically said he didn't see any of the move the needle with a dead with a dead pan straight face. He said, I am. Here's what I'm praying for. I am praying for first round. Caves, sixers, calves, sixers. Give it to me. Four, five James Harden going up against the sixers as former team going up against Darryl Mori after the whole drama from a couple of years ago. The sixers have a couple of really juicy picks in the out years. James wanted to help the Clippers rebuild. Yeah. He's hurt. They are future repelled by the trade that James gave in the first place. Let me just say about James Harden. I don't know if he knew or whatever, but he got out and then they traded Zubatch. Like, I don't know what was first chicken or the egg. Maybe he knew they were trying to do it. I would. I would say that I would say that James is trade precipitated the other trade. I would say probably. I just want to know where Darryl Mori did with his basketball. Jesus T shirt. Forget about the T shirt. What about the portrait? Yeah. No. I mean, that's probably no longer hanging. Has he donated that to like an art museum or something? I don't know. Is the T shirt like can you rummage through like thrift shops and Philly and maybe stumble upon that T shirt? Did Dan Gilbert meet, I guess wouldn't be Dan Gilbert. Did Kobe Altman meet James the plane wearing his own basketball? Jesus T shirt. They didn't have to meet him with the plane. They were in the same city. That's right. Meet him at the Uber. It's very convenient. You think they sent him a car? He's probably got a few of his own. Yeah. Well, the ad, the Adidas ad, there's two gorgeous. I don't even know what they are. Gorgeous, very, very expensive looking sports cars. I don't, it's implied that they're his. I don't know if there are. Maybe they were rented. I'm just he can probably afford it. Anyway, he had 23 points in 32 minutes and he had it five threes. By the way, Jared Allen has had a couple of gigantic games on this road trip without Evan Mowbley. And he went 11 or 12 in that game. Like everyone was focused on Donovan and Hart and rightly be so like they were behind and Donovan, like, carried him back on the hard and put over the top. Donovan had 35 and everything like that. But Jared Allen went 11 or 12 from the field. Well, listen, Jared Allen, I'm sure was pretty happy about the trade for James Harden because one thing that James will do is help your big man look a lot better. Yeah. Can I just say is a real quick aside here? I was watching the Clippers play the wolves today, which we'll get to which we'll get to in a minute. And Kauai Leonard was awesome in that game. Absolutely awesome. He had 41 points. And I'm sitting here thinking like all of these seasons that the Clippers had derailed because they didn't have a healthy Kauai granted. Like you could never take him for granted. Like I don't know what'll happen in two weeks or two months, all of these years that they were head derailed because Kauai wasn't right. He's never looked better. Yeah. He never, his shot looks so pure. This is the best he's placed since he was in Toronto. I actually feel like the whole transaction was cursed from the beginning. And this is just the coup de gras on the whole thing. I mean, quiet. This might be the best he's played period. This is, I mean, well, it's just just regular season his career. It was a joke. He was a name to the all-star team. Yeah. Well, he's not on it. But now he's on it. But he should have been originally on it. Like he had a far better season of the brun. And whatever the reason was that he wasn't voted for, like he's had an unbelievable season. And again, like I said, if you look at totality at the Kauai era with the Clippers, like you said, Brian, the fact that he's doing this now as the team has been dismantled around him. And he's healthy and playing like this. It is a fitting end to the way this whole thing has played out from start to finish. I mean, he was absolutely destroying the wolves today, destroying them. He's destroying everybody. And we'll get to the wolves. Let's circle back to this anyway. We're getting off. We've got to feel from the calves. Look, in this game, first game, I'm obviously really interested to see how this cast nuggets game goes Monday night. That's going to be a really interesting test for this new look group, Noethern Mobileys. So one key piece missing. And obviously the nuggets are missing. No, the nuggets are missing for sure. But you could see in this first game, like James Harden is just flat out better right now, especially. And probably for this season, then Darry's Carlin. And like, there are clearly going to be a better team with James Harden. Now, is that going to translate into the kind of run the playoffs they need? We'll see. Does it move the needle? Well, I mean, I think it moves the needle. I certainly enjoyed Darryl's line. And like I said, I'm praying for those two teams to play in the first round. But yeah, like it was immediately apparent why it was the right move for the calves to make and why it was the right risk for them to take with what they have at stake this summer and try to get that out of into extent. And James is going to get him shots. And he can hold up better defensively than Darryl's. It's not that he's great on defense. He certainly is not, but he's at least a big body who can bang on people. And even towards the end of that game, the other night, he was guarding the Marsome. Like, you know, it's clearly made them better. And now we'll just have to wait and see how much better. It's made them better. And, you know, listen, if Donovan is Donovan's obviously happy with it. If he's happy enough to where he extends, then that's the the whole purpose of this. I just think that's interesting because it makes them better now. And next year, but like James is going to be in his late 30s. And so you're extending to play with who? Well, I don't want to put a proud. I don't I shouldn't put words of Kevin Belton's mouth, but I will, I will relay a conversation he and I had a couple of weeks ago that I think is a little sort of a lie. It might not have been a bad move where we were talking about possible Derri's Garland trades, different places. And he asked me, are we sure Derri's Garland is not a toxic contract at this point? Because of the it's not from a talent perspective obviously, but for the all of these toe and foot injuries he's had. Now, hopefully Derri's Garland comes back. He's supposed to be back in the next couple of weeks. Hopefully he can come back and can just play. But I was at the game in Philly when he got hurt last and he barely did anything and then he's been out for a month. So, you know, that I think is a real question. Like if he can't stay on the court, then while he's a super talented player and the cast don't have a ton of draft assets, like the fact that they could just swap him out for James Hardin, it might be as good as they were really going to have any chance of doing an deal with him in the next couple of years if he can't stay healthy. And that's obviously something we, as we sit here right now on February 9th, we can't say for sure what that's going to look like. It's too bad about a Vizzi Zubac hurting his ankle. Well, our debate about whether the Pacers were going to go for one or 10 the other day on the pod that immediately went away when I saw Rick Carlyle say, yeah, you know, Zuz got this ankle. It's going to have to get it looked at. I was like, Oh, oh, Ben Langerin. He played 15 of the previous 16 games. Yeah. And then he had to go away because he became a father and grouched to him and his wife. I will say that I won too much to the NBA. Listen, I think I told you guys, I think the Pacers should be progressive and give Zubac the rest of the season off for paternity leave. That would be amazing. Like supportive of the family. Yes. FMLA. I will say that when my son was born, you know, is in the delivery room and they, you know, you're in all the scrubs and they give you the booties to put over your shoes. You know, you're in the operating room. Where are we going? My son was a story. My son was born. And they said, you want to take him back to the hospital room from the delivery room to the hospital back to the room. So I'm carrying my newborn son. He's you know, 11 minutes older, whatever. And these booties are slick as hell. I don't know. And I'm walking us on the only in Florida. I'm walking like my late grandfather used to walk on ice. I'm walking, you know, six inches at a time. And I'm like, like, what if, what if Zubac, like, what if you, you know, what if he went down? Like, what if he slipped with the booties on? He slipped. And he suffered, you know, an ankle injury. Like it could have happened. No, it's just he's been playing. You know, he's just right. Want to make sure he's 100% before you I was a horse of training camp next year. Oh, God. I didn't think that's where you go with that. Oh, my God. That's almost killed me. I was genuinely fearful. It was like the most stressful moment of that day was that like 30 yards I had to walk down the hall with the newborn and in those booties. I thought it was a really, I think it's a real hazard. I think they should take a serious look at it. And I'm not simply nimble. Anyway, I keep getting distracted by the clippers. Bontons, I gotta say, I'm all your theories that was you, you had some good ones. Pace was trying to be, the pace was trying to be 10th was not a good thing. I just thought it was just thought it was a interesting thought exercise. And I asked some people about it. I did get different answers on it. But the answer was given when Rick Carlisle declared that soon he's the rest is ain't just not really for the record. I would say off the record. I did ask the pace was about that concept. They said, hell no. We're trying to tell we're trying to get four through a tough floor. We're not working to be in this bad. We're not going to give up on it now that we know. We're roughly there. Oh, sorry. It's like I said, it's going to be a really, really, really long too much. I mean, listen, and leagues got to figure something out. This is like Tanka Paloos is a. Here's too late. Well, for this, I know, I would say the plan, plan that has been proposed by somebody we all know to the league to have wins count at some point in the season. Like imagine, if this year, wins counted the rest of the way. And you feel a lot better? Well, if you had the jazz trading for Jaren Jackson, Jr., you had the Clippers training for our trading. You had the Pacers getting the Viet Szu Batch. You had the Wizards getting Anthony Davis. Like you would have some of these teams like really being entertained. Like the jazz could have just won three games in a row and very creatively made sure they didn't win them. Like, they could really rip off a bunch of wins. Like obviously all these different things have some sort of like unintended consequence of it. But to me, the more I've thought about this, that is to solve that fixes the most problems for me. I would agree. The fewest where you have this final third of the season where teams are trying to get in the playoffs and all the stuff is going on. And we now have literally a third of the league punting games. Like that's just not that's that that can't be the best path forward. And obviously, this is particularly good draft, but I don't know. We mentioned the Wizards. We'll dock and Zergium talk to the media there. And he indicated that they do plan on having a D in the fold at some point this season. But you remember the press released the Maddox sent out when a deavoid surgery that said he will be healed in six weeks. Yeah. It didn't say, I think it was very 10 weeks. Yeah. Well, he's like, no, it wasn't six weeks. It was 10 weeks. Six to 10. And by the way, they sent him back to Dallas. Thanks for coming to D.C. We'll see in four to six weeks. I mean, I appreciate you taking some pictures for social media. Off you go. Yeah. Here's the thing. Like if you look at the standings, we're going to talk about the Hornets in a minute. The Hornets have 25 wins. Okay. The teams behind them are the bulls, the bucks, so that the Hornets are in 10th. The teams behind them are the bulls, the bucks, the nets, the Wizards, and the Paisers. Now, I don't know about the bucks because I know what the bucks are doing because allegedly guys coming back. And they signed Cam Thomas today, would you know that it helps them win, but it's a move designed to help them win. Okay. More hoop collective podcast after this. Here's my question. Okay. The Hornets have 25 wins. The Bulls have 24. The bucks have 21. Now, I'm not even going to get into the net's Wizards. How many more wins do you think the Hornet's actually need to stay in the plan? Yeah. Danny in to stay in the plan. No, not no. I don't think. Yeah. Well, listen, here's, we'll be here's the thing. Here's the thing. Just real talk. What is the, we're going to do is, well, Jackson made you remember this later on. The Hornets have 25 wins. What will the, how many wins will 10th place have? I think at least how many wins will 11th place have? Okay. 11th place. Yeah. The Bulls have 24 now. Well, low, low to mid 30s. Maybe I'll take a listen, listen, listen, they're the Bulls, for example, are playing the nets on Monday. Guess who's not playing for the nets? Michael Porter, Jr. Like, there's a whole lot of games. Right. These teams are playing each other. You're right. You're right. So that's a flaw in my theory. It's right. So like, now the better question is how many teams are going to get to, how many of these teams at the bottom are not going to get to 25 wins. There might be like seven. Honestly, though, that many. My head hurt. We, we, we talk about the bad, we're talking about the bad teams too much. I know. I'm sorry. Yeah, but hey, the Hornets aren't a bad team anymore. That's fun. That's correct. So they have a, so they have a good game on, on Monday, first off, they've won nine in a row, which they had won nine in a row in like 25 years. I think guys, two had come out with the last time. There's only two. There's only two guys on their roster who were alive the last time they had a winning streak this long. Yeah, I wasn't making a, Tim, I wasn't making a joke. I think litter. I saw a graphic of the show. I'm going to look at all. I'm literally the last, literally the last time one that many games in a row. It was like when the PS2 came out, it was 2000. And I, it was three, but then they waved Pat Connotton and they went down to two. So there's two guys on there on their roster who were only alive the last time they had won this many in a row. Right. When they won eight, when they won, right. That was their longest winning streak in December of 1999, which by the way, was the first iteration of the team before it got moved to New Orleans and an expansion team could back. That's a long ago. Yeah, but who was on that? Was that Baron Davis? Is that a Baron Davis lead team? I don't even know if he was a lead. I believe that was a Baron Davis team. Well, well, here was it 1999, 1999 2000. 1999 2000. Let's see. Yeah. So it's a Baron Davis team. This is rookie year. That, I mean, it's crazy that it had been that long, crazy. And so they are really, so they're in 10th place right now. They're a half game back of Atlanta for 9th, who they just beat. Don't we think they're going to make the playoffs? We have a seal. So I'm saying, so with this starting lineup, there's something like 15 and one. So they started the season 4 and 14. They had a bunch of injuries. Obviously, Brandon Miller was the biggest one, but they had a bunch of injuries. Well, listen, real talk. Again, to go back to real talk. Real talk was they were supposed to be bad one more year. Like the goal was to have this young court get some minutes together, have Brandon Miller and Lamello ball and Connick and up. Finally, you know, Conn is obviously a rookie. Have those guys play together, get some time on the court, get another chance at a high pick and a loaded draft. And then next year, like, you know, like these other teams really take a step forward. And then they had the best month by point differential ever. Right. And so my point is they're masquerading as a 10th place team. They're not really a 10th place team. No, they're, I think they're going to end up coming out of the play. And now, you know, the mellows previous two play and experiences did not go well. They got blown out both. But this is a much better team. Look, and it's not like the mellows just going bonkers like, you know, he shouldn't less than 40% from the floor during the streak. I think he's playing the most solid basketball of his career. But this is being driven by Brandon Miller and Connick and honestly, Moosa Diabate's energy and all the all the study has the most baby. All the stuff he's doing. Miles Bridges, who, you know, there's a lot before they got on the streak, I thought Miles Bridges was going to be traded. He's been playing well. Well, I think at one point, we would have said when they were four and 14, we would have said, well, this team's, you know, there's they're going to be a seller. They ended up as a buyer. And during the streak, they've got the fifth best defense in the league. Like you look at them and they play super fast and they hoist. And you say, okay, this one is they're kind of team. They're defending right now. We're defending. Yeah, that, I mean, that, that starting, that starting lineup is now up to 230 minutes. It's plus 30 per 100 possessions. And among all the lineups in the league, it's played what it's like in top 10 and minutes played. Five six, it's like ninth overall and minutes played and it's plus 30. I close you slide up in the whole league. Plus 30. That's crazy. I'm saying they are master. Not plus 30 on the season. Plus 30 per 100 possessions. They are not a 10th of rating of 139. And they're defending right now. Okay. So deep into rating of 109. So something interesting though did happen. So instead of being a seller at the deadline, they go to be a buyer and they trade for Kobe White, who I think will fit in beautifully there because the style of play that they play is how he wants to play. Yeah, perfect third guard to play with them. Yes. And he's from there too. Yes, he's from, he's not from Carolina. He's from Carolina. He's from Carolina. Went to Carolina. How about by the way? How about that shot Carolina hit on Duke? I don't follow college basketball, but holy moly. What a shot. It's pretty good. And I will say this like when you see the one of the things I noticed and I apologize. I'm ignorant to maybe this is something that people in in Carolina will be like, yes, you dope. This is of course the way it is. The entire arena is all Carolina fans like there was no Duke section like there's like when you when you see that shot because there's a couple of great replays where you can see the entire Dean Dom. There is there is no Duke blue in that building. Every single person is wearing Carolina blue. It was it was a great shot. Anyway, so here's what happened with Kobe White. So they trade for Kobe White. And from what I am told, they did the deal on Tuesday. And one of the reasons they did the deal on Tuesday was because after last year when they had the Mark Williams deal with the Lakers undone after the deadline, if you remember, the deadline was already over. So they couldn't amend it. They couldn't amend it. They couldn't like, you know, toss in an extra second round pick. You know, they wanted that first round pick and that pick swap from the Lakers. They ended up trading Mark Williams for I guess they got too first for him, but one of them was like like a late pick. It was a 20 nice pick. And they should have was Lee. Melee. Melee. Melee. Yeah. So anyway, this year they did the they purposely did the deal like to allow for time to get the physical done. They do the physical and they discover that Kobe White has a calf injury. And he had a calf injury earlier this year, but to the other leg, this was a new calf injury that I don't know. He I don't think he's given an interview at maybe his calf was a little sore, but they identified these got a calf injury and they call the bulls and they go, listen, man, like his issue. And so the bulls give the agree to amend the deal and they give back a second round pick. They told me he's got to miss a while now with this injury too. Yeah. And so I was talking to this this scout. And he says to me, this is talk about irony. You got all these teams are trading for guys who they don't want to play. Like during Jackson Jr. Jaron Jackson Jr. first game, he scored 25 points or 23 points in 25 minutes for the jazz bench for the fourth quarter. By the way, Mark and in that night scored 27 points to 27 minutes. Guess who was sitting next with Jaron Jackson for the whole time. Well, they want to give them time to get to know each other. They go down on the intervention and get beautiful team. But also the as they were blowing like I think it was a 15 or 17 point lead. They blew through an entire 17 point lead on the road. And Will Hardy did not call it time out. So Jaron Jackson, you know, they're going to do some load management and stuff. Zubach, they said, get that ankle, put that ankle up. Anthony Davis has been sent back to Dallas. I mean, Jay Young is working on his retro jersey collection. Right. Well, all this is happening. Meanwhile, the team actually was like, we're buying. We're on a run. We want this guy. They discovered an injury. They didn't know. Yeah. Like something seems like, damn, how come how come you guys didn't discover an injury? We didn't know. But we could have gotten some a draft back and we could have had something to put on the injury report. Anyway, yes. So hopefully Kobe, you know, is going to be all right. And he'll add to the team. But, uh, but say a bunch of the, the pistons on Friday. Absolutely. Now the next we're missing two starters or carl towns. Don't talk about the guys that next are missing. Don't talk about the guys that next are missing. All right. Let me just read you, Jalen Brunson's stat line in this game against the pistons on Friday night. 12 points minus 24 in four in 31 minutes. And it gets worse from there. Four for 20 from the field. Oh, for eight from three. That, my friends, is very atypical. Jalen Brunson line. And while I have concerns about the Saratops in his offensive game and whether he could be a true building block for a team because of his offensive game, his defense is and his defense against Jalen Brunson was legit. And you saw Jalen Brunson on Sunday on our air against the Celtics, another good defensive team. Get right back to looking like Jalen Brunson. And he was awesome. And the next had a great win. And yes, they didn't have carl towns and yes, they didn't have OGE and an OB. But I don't think that would have done a lot of difference in that specific game with the Saratops. I think the pistons have out for the next by 60 points in the game games this year. Yeah, the pistons were also coming off a pretty embarrassing performance. The previous night, I believe, right? When they let the Wizards beat them. Yes. So the Wizards were very upset about that. Yeah, seriously. Oh, but now I mean, who would have thought pistons hornets would be like a, uh, circulate on the counter to have the light. It's a big, it's a big, it's a really, it's a big game. I mean, listen, if this point, I just don't preview. Listen, I, the, here's the crazy thing. The hornets right now are five and a half games out of sixth. Like it's not inconceivable the way they're playing that they get out of the play. Of course, not there. And they're, their, their record is 25 and 28, but that's not who they are. No, yeah. I mean, you know, you always say it was a par cells. You are what your record says you are. That's true almost all the time. In this case, it's not true. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's unbelievable how well they're playing and how impressive they've been. And I do think Kobe will help a lot. And yeah, it easily could be a first round playoff series. And it's only if the pistons fall back because I don't think the hornets are going to be eighth. I think they might be higher. They might be. But it's going to be super fun to watch. And it's, you know, this, this piston season has been awesome. I continue to be a little skeptical about them in the playoffs because they're lack of additional scoring outside of Cade. Some of the stuff that I'm curious about when to get in the playoffs if they can get squared up on by another team. But, you know, like you said, Brian, these two games against the mix have absolutely curb stopped them. And they've played Boston well. And they've obviously had an incredible season. And, you know, maybe they are just going to be the team that bucks the trends of, you know, age and experience in the playoffs. You guys know the last time the hornets made the playoffs. And the last time they made the playoffs, I know they lost to the heat in 2016. Just so you know, it was before the existence of the player. Right. Yeah. Cause they lost that set of game series to the heat. Is that the last time that's correct? 2016. Yep. Yeah. I'm not quite Sacramento level, but I did a piece on the taking situation. The league that is on uspn.com Monday. And just by the way, I don't, I don't read comments. I leave Jackson to do that. I literally have not looked at a Twitter mention or X mentioned this decade. I'm not even kidding. So I don't see, but people got to me. Like people found my email and and and text me trying to suggest what are you doing? I was just making fun of your hand motions. That's, I was sorry. Oh, good. People got to me to suggest names for my the flip concept, which I wrote about Monday. Have something you like? Like seven, you know, again, I, there's probably a lot more, but six or seven people got to me. Six seven. And like three or four of them said slingshot. I like slingshot. Like slingshot. The problem with the slingshot is that it's got to be like down and up. And these teams are just going to go back and then you pull it back. And then you understand, but they've been pulled back for years. That's the only part that I've told back for years. Like, so it's not wrote a Laker game. I want to show Bontempt exactly how slingshot works. What would you say? What is doing? So stand up. I was very late. I just want to coast. Well, I think I told you guys, we know the gram, the gram, the hotel that that McMahon's in right now, I was just there for to all straight nights. The Grammy's last Sunday night. That was quite a show on display in that lobby and just say plastic surgeons are going to Hawaii. So slingshot was one of them. Several people said slingshot. Boomerang, which I didn't like because that implies you're in the same spot. You know, they're not really in the same spot. There was a few others. So I appreciate people reaching out to me. Having said that, I wrote this story and I called them, I called it the flip. I've branded it the flip. It could be, you know, it could be, I could have a bit better nickname, but I've committed to the flip. Now I've committed to it. You're all in. I'm all in on the flip. Anyway, so the next totally get embarrassed on Friday in Detroit. I think Jay was it was Jaylen Brunson, one of his worst shooting games as a Nick, if not be worst. And by the way, I saw Thompson was all over that scenario. I think he only had like four points in the game, but he was like, best, most important player on the floor. So then the next go to Boston on Sunday. Carl Towns comes back. OGN OB was still out. And they were awesome in this game. And it was a game that had some stakes. You know, the Celtics were a game ahead of them for second. And they were one, one on the season series. And the Nick's are, as you know, are a below 500 road team. And so not only does that matter later on, but like you're going into Boston. And so, you know, you win that game and you put yourself in really much better position for winning the, winning the tiebreaker, considering the last game is the last week of the season in New York. And Boston had been playing pretty well. And the Nick's looked great. And there was this, it was this moment in the first half. So no, OGN OB. So the pressure is on, Mikhail Bridges. He was going to get heavy, you know, assignment on Jalen Brown. And at one point in the first half, Jalen tries to back Bridges down. Bridges challenges him and stops him and forces him to take a turn around. He's still, it was still a decent shot, but he missed it. He missed it. They go down to the other end and Bridges post Jalen Brown up. And they want to think I can think of this as I'm watching this as I'm thinking, you know, some people heard about Jalen Brown announcing himself as the best two-way player. Which is a fair, like he's, I don't think he's outrageous there. He's got a, he's got a reasonable case case. So Bridges is called for the ball. Jalen, get me the freaking ball. So Jalen gives it to him. He looks over his shoulder, turned around, knocks down this like 12 footer with the, we're writing Jalen's eye. And points at him, points right at him, you know, like, all right, Mr. Twoway. And I mean, that was the way the Nick's approach is entire game. They looked awesome. Defensively, we're great. I don't, Bostonans crack 100. And Bontemps, I'm just thinking to myself, I'm just, it's just underscores. I have no idea what's going to happen in Eastern Conference. Yeah, but saying all season that I begin to ask in October, who's going to win the East? And I just keep saying I have absolutely no idea. And, you know, like today's game, the Celtics shot seven for 41 from three. Yeah, it's not going to get to about 18 of them were wide open. And they just whipped them. But the Nick's played very well. Jalen was back to normal. And yeah, like these playoffs, like, you could make a case for Detroit. You could make a case for Boston, especially if Jason Tatum comes back, which I'm still thinking he will at some point. So it's not certain. You could certainly make a case for the Nick's. You can make a case for Cavs corner. If Philly is healthy, I think from a ceiling perspective, you could make a case for them. That's already five teams. Charlotte Hornets. 30 per 100 sure. Why not? We've branded them on NBA today. We've branded them the buzz city killers. Okay. I like it. Yeah, that's a good one. But like it's, it is, it is remarkable. Like I can't remember a conference that was actually this wide open. Well, it's one thing. It's one and I were insulting. I feel like the Pissons fans are like, why are you insulting us? But it's one thing if you're like, okay, well, these are the favorites and these are the contenders. I can't differentiate them at all. I like in Detroit to be the reason the Pistons can't be put up above everybody yet is because basically, it's basically unprecedented to go from never winning anything in the playoffs to winning three series in a year. Like for all the key guys on this on this Pistons team, of Kate Cunningham, of Sartops and Jalen Duren, as Ace Stewart, like really other than Tobias Harris. And now I guess Kevin Hurtler and Duncan Roberts, like all like veteran role players, who've had runs to the second rounder in Hurtler's case, went to the conference finals. Obviously, Duncan's been to the finals. Their young key players have one playoffs series on other belt that they lost in six games. And I think they didn't win a home gaming. So like that, it's hard to go from that to then speed all all the way to win three odds at a row. Now, I think the working out of peace with Vinnie for Wednesday on how wide open the east is. So he gets credit for this. Vince Goodwill on this podcast. We've done this Vinnie for like 20 years, but he goes by Vince now. He had the Penny Shack magic as like the only comparable team in terms of like she had it up to standings. I don't know what they did the year before, but like that, you can count on one hand. Talk about the ultimate flip, the Celtics in 2007, 2008. Like that, that's your, but that's a little definitely when you're bringing in, that's getting three veteran. That's a three in their prime star players. It's not a home, it's not a bunch of kids who have never been deep in the playoffs before. I mean, it's the same argument against the spurs in the West, but the spurs don't have any taste with this group of playoff experience. Right. By the way, how about just Steph Castle on a who for some point triple double? One, if you go back, if you go back two years ago, like a good analog, I think for this, this piston steam in a lot of ways is the 23 24 thunder who now went from sort of the same position the pistons were in last year. Breakfast. Basically the same position the pistons were in this year. They won 56 games. They run, I think, a three way tie for first in the West. They go into that series with Dallas, who had some more experience. And easily could have won that series was a really tight six game series, but the Mavericks won it. And like if you tell me that the pistons have a really hard fought second round series against Boston or New York or Cleveland or one of these teams and they lose, like that. I don't think that would be seen that shouldn't be seen as some massive disappointment given where they are in their life cycle. But you know, this is just an unprecedented situation all the way around. Yeah, I would I don't know where, uh, now Jackson has the odds. Does he have to put the odds up? Oh, oh, Jackson has, um, magic lost first found three oh and 93 94 to the Pacers. They won 57 then they won 50, then 57 and made the files. And they got swept. And then Jack said, I'm out. Sad. Uh, okay. So we'll keep an eye on the Eastern Conference. More hoop collective podcast after this. Circle back around to where we started. Uh, did we mention the wolves? So the wolves have had a very up and down season. They've had stretches where they've looked like they really got a challenge. They've had other stretches where they've looked great. The beaten Oklahoma City a few times. Um, then Friday night they played the pelicans at home. And the pelicans were down in that by 18 points, I think. And the other thing that happened is like not secretly the Timberwolves tried to trade for Yannis Tenakumpo. Yeah. Um, and while it didn't leak who their offer was or there was some some of it. But, um, you know, the players understand that it's not going to be aunt. Well, and it's going to be several of them. Yes. Well, just like draft picks, they have no draft picks. So it had to be most of their good players to give it have a chance to get a deal. Well, other players might have been offered for draft picks as well. And this is the second straight year. This has happened last year was for Kevin Durant. So right. So, you know, actions over words like, you know, whatever Tim Connelly might say about his faith in the team. And like, you know, I don't plan for trying to get Yannis like Yannis and Ant would be like, I'm not even I'm just saying like, you know, so it's something that the players know is happening and is hard to just block out. Like it's going to be a pro. Okay. Like, easy to say hard to. Yep. Yep. So Friday night, they give up a big lead and lose to the pelicans. Zion was very good in that game. And, um, Rudy, go bare after the game. Pepper is the hillside. Uh, Rudy does. Rudy, Rudy does Rudy, Rudy is known to have moments in the media like this after bad losses. So he said, well, he used to say this about Don of the Mitchell, right? Didn't he, McMan? Yeah. This is very summer stuff that was a factor in the friction between Don and Rudy for sure. He basically said, you know, I don't have the quotes right in front of me, but I'm looking, I'm gonna, uh, okay, I'm gonna give you the quote. So go ahead, go ahead. Go on up right here. At some point, if the players don't have accountability, someone has to have accountability for players. That's a shot. Is head coach, are we agree on that? Mm-hmm. I'm like straight effort. I'm just talking straight effort. I'm not even getting into the basketball side of things. Like mistakes are part of the game with the effort from me. The effort to me for a team that wants to play for a championship, it's unacceptable. And then he said, it's not an easy position for a coach to take guys out of the game without directly naming any players. It's not something that you want to do, but I think if the players don't show any effort, at some point, no matter how talented we are as a team, if you don't have that, you just can't be a winning team. So, so. All right. So he took a shot. He's calling out Bench for not, for not convincing and Randall. If you want to, if you want to, say, and Randall, but let's just say that the writers, John Krasinski from the athletic and Chris Hine from the, um, from the starter interview and and Dane Moore covers the team, they all believe that it was aunt and Randall. And if you watch the game, it's not hard to figure out what he's talking about. If you watch the game, I would not say that aunt and Randall were leading the league in defensive activity. No, I said that there was multiple times where Zion ate go bear alive. Now, that's not the greatest matchup for Rudy, but he's Mr. Hall of Fame defensive player. By the way, when we ran these comments today on, um, on countdown, because they were on national, they were on ESPN today. Michael Malone said, well, nobody cares about Rudy, go bear things anyway. I knew he was going to say it. Malika didn't know. So like, I had my popcorn over there when that came up. And Malika, I guess, didn't hear him say it beforehand. And he actually said, and Malika's head snapped around. I mean, she, she was like, what? That's a little, little harsh. So then Chris Finch comes out on Saturday and says, I addressed it. And you don't substitute your way to meaningful accomplishment. I handle all my conversations with ourselves in house, disappointing. He felt the need to go outside. Nonetheless, that's been addressed already today. There's never been a team that's won anything meaningful that substituted their way there. So what that's what he's saying there is, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm not taking an edwards. I'm not, you know, we're not fixing this by me taking an edwards out when this is an assignment. And that's my job anyway, bro. And like, I think Rudy means well, but he just really has a clumsy way of pissing off everybody around him at times. And again, he did it in Utah. He's done it in Minnesota. This is a case where and you know, the other thing like honestly in this, look, the go ahead and one was a Zion finishing over Rudy. And so this is, this is a case where it's like Rudy's point and fingers. What? And there's no thumb, you know, let's, let's, let's move past the Rudy comments, though, because I think that I think it sort of subtracts from what the real issue is, which is this team has just wildly underperformed for most of the season. They have repeatedly had just absolutely horrific losses. Like that loss of the Pelicans was terrible. They got obliterated on New Year's Eve by the Hawks. They lost to the nets. They lost to the bulls. They lost to the jazz. They have a get on the team on the home court. They got blown out today by the Clippers with half their team. They lost, they lost that game where they're up seven points with 45 seconds to go in Phoenix and imploded and lost that game. Like they've just had, they've had six or seven or eight just catastrophic losses this season. And even if they had four of those games back, you're talking about a team that is pushing for a second or third in the West. And instead, they're sixth. But like in a classic case, they go into Toronto last week. And they, before this New Orleans game, they go into Toronto and they win. And they hadn't won in Toronto since like 2000. And Ant says, we ain't won here since Bruce Lee died. Which is this, this managed a treasure. He actually, he also had a dunk today that was among the two or three times the season. Well, this guy's a treasure. Having said that, I would not say that their team, you know, you think you had that horrible loss and the Clippers are coming in. You know, you know, I was, I was expecting them to have a big bounce back. But this is who the wolves are. The wolves are a high ceiling erratic team. Last year at the end of February, there were only three games above 500. They got it rolling in the last month and after a regular season and going to the conference finals, they got it together. Last year was not a smooth year whatsoever for them. You know, and look, like there's the, the, uh, their trip to Toronto last year where Go Bear and Randall basically got into it on the floor. And you know, when Rudy had the three seconds because Randall would pass the ball. Yeah, exactly. And, and you know, they were, you know, and then Rudy had another bad moment where he was still, I've got exactly what happened, but yet like he cared over the defensive possession. Anyways, my point is like we shouldn't be surprised that the wolves have funcs or that the wolves have does. This is, this is the team that they are. They did. They have been very high ceiling and they managed to get it together at the right time last year. We'll see if that happens now. But you know, right now, they're, you know, they're, they look like a first round exit. Well, I remind everybody, they use the likes, I remind everybody to use my Conley salary and a pick swap that could be eight to ten spots in the draft to save a lot of money. And it could have got better. Well, they went out and got IO. They after they used a Mike Conley's money and a pretty decent pick swap to save a lot of money. Well, they could have used that contract to get another player with IO. I don't think this thing is another good player. The wolves are going to be pension pennies. That's just the fact. Okay, pension pennies. That was a wild move to do that. They're doing it on the business side. They're, they, you know, this is an obvious cost cutting thing that you're talking about there. But yeah, I don't know, man. Well, those two, these two games, the Pelicans and Clippers were the first two games of a six game homestand. This is supposed to be a time where they're pivoting, not like worried about dropping into the plan. It's a big couple of months for the wolves. That's what I would say. It's a big couple of months for the wolves. Well, I'm looking at their schedule last year. You know, mid to late. So they lose six out of eight games to, to in February last year, including a loss to the jazz on the last day of the month. There are two wins during that stretch over the thunder. That's kind of the epitome of the wolves. Like they can play with anybody when they're right. And then they can just go on these funks and lose to anybody. And, you know, it's a hard way to go about it. Well, it's not a long term sustainable way to go about it. It's what it is. It's just not. So, and again, honestly, I think it's a big couple of months for the wolves to show what kind of team they are. And Ant has a reputation for being an elite two-way player. And obviously he is a super star. He's one of the best offensive players in the league. He has the reputation because he is capable of being a dominant defender. He does not choose to be that often these days. He's he's he can super duper lock down. He is built to be amazing on defense because he's got super long arms, incredible quickness. And when he wants to like he, you know, one of the things that's hard to do on defense is to get low. He gets low so well. It's very hard to do that. And as strong as hell. Now, I will say that Ant is carrying a massive burden offensively and has to handle a he's a point guard. He has to handle more ball handling than ever. So, you know, age two games a year. It's hard to ask guy to carry that kind of burden offensively. There was some possessions in this game today where they were just complete wet noodle offensively. I mean, they're, you know, I don't I don't like the word. I don't like the word engaged. I don't like fans and sometimes media like watch players and they go, oh, that player is not engaged. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think, you know, it's you're now you're reading into what's going on in their head. But if you elected to say that word about today's game, I would have had a hard time debating that. So particularly, I'm coming off the last couple of days. They look disconnected. They play the Hawks on Monday. So, um, all right. Uh, is that I think I think we covered everything. We did. Uh, okay. Thank you for staying up late. Thank you to Jackson and Devon for putting it together. Thank you to McMahon and Bontoms. We're talking to you later this week. I'll see you next week.