"AI Isn't Under Control": The Founder Solving a $20 Trillion Problem | Ep. 397 with Brandon Card CEO of Terzo AI

Every company is basically putting $100 million of financial commitment into a SharePoint folder. This is ridiculous. And I was managing SpaceX. So I go to SpaceX's office and I knew they were talking about building Starlink and sending Teslas to Mars. And then I'm over here building a PowerPoint with 95 slides or contract data. I'm like, this doesn't make sense. Some of these contracts are like 300, 400 pages long. They can't go through this manually. When you're dealing with financial data, there's no room for error. So the only way to solve this is... so brandon terzo terzo ai what is the importance of the name because i know you said there there is an importance of the name right and well what is what was who was brandon before terzo so i'm not the same guy i've always been right they call me brandino because my mom's italian and i and uh you know a lot of my friends that are italian or from other countries love calling I mean, Brandino, right? And my co-founder, Al, his father happened to be from Italy, around the same region that my mother's front, Roma. And when we were coming up with the name for Terzo, we were thinking about, like, how do we come up with a cool name that's not about the product? Because we might do AI today, but what if we do, you know, payments in the future? What if we do infrastructure? We need a name that's generic. And we thought, you know, TETSO means third in Italian, and we're helping companies manage third-party relationships, third-party contracts. so we said oh terzo could be a cool name we thought about it like oracle right i started my career at oracle 16 years ago and i thought wow oracle they bought up like all these different companies they still have a powerful named oracle i thought terzo is a similar name and i really liked that name and it was italian it was fun and uh you know mom and mom was happy family was happy but that's really where the origin story came from i love italy by the way like italian food that's right incredible that's actually why i like croatia i feel like croatia is like a mixture italian quarterly in greece it's like my two favorite places i love it there and it does it does there's something powerful about the name terzo like there is something i can see that the oracle effect all right it's fun so you you start the company what a wild time to start a company like i mean i could tell you the story i gotta tell you this okay tell me because i was here at sf i came to sf to meet with some friends and we also had a law firm up here that was helping us do the incorporation and we thought you know we'll go up to sf meet the team in person we'll follow the paperwork up there for terzo technologies incorporated out of delaware did all that paperwork it was march 13th 2020 when we're in that office here they were like there's gonna be a lockdown no one's gonna be able to come to the office because of this covet 19 virus and we were like okay we were kind of confused we went back to the hotel the hotel was also in lockdown we went to sfo flew from sfo back to lax there was no one at either airport and me and my co-founder al were like holy shit i've never been at an airport in the united states or anywhere where there's been no people and when we landed lax it was empty it felt like an apocalypse we were thinking ourselves i remember those days yeah we were thinking ourselves wait a second we just incorporated our company and we just got all excited about building this company and we literally like this is an apocalyptic scene no one's at lax the first time ever and we're thinking to ourselves like what in the hell does the future look like now and all the people we were recruiting to come on board were scrambling with their families and worried about obviously their you know personal lives it was a really tough time for us to get everyone focused and everyone went on zoom went home and kind of you know spent time wherever they came from visited family and friends same same with i i went home to visit my mom and dad in new york and we got on zooms 18 hours a day to build a company and i was thinking to myself like wow i didn't for i didn't foresee this coming but you know it was honestly a blessing because it was a distraction for us but i had a challenge keeping people focused because there's so much happening and death and families including my family and it was really hard to keep people focused on building back then but i think ultimately it made us a lot more resilient that's the wild thing about entrepreneurship like it is i tell people like keep a job keep a job keep a job like go get it my mom and dad are like are you sure you want to quit Microsoft right now after that you know like that stable amazing company are you sure you want to go off and do this and I'm like I'm sure but how would it be crazy or I was crazy you didn't know what to say yeah that's that's the thing you all knew I was crazy so she's like okay like I know you want to start your own I started my own company that's like 17 and her basement right so I was like wow this is really nerve-wracking I can tell you I had anxiety and I was a little nervous but I was like you know what I already made this commitment in my head i'm gonna figure this out i'm gonna do whatever it takes and it was a very tough time mentally for myself my co-founders for our whole ecosystem and you know it was a really interesting time in history i think none of us will ever forget that i think there's something i'm finding now with ai specifically that a lot of people create a business but they're not really solving like a problem like they're solving a problem that's been solved yeah and they're solving a problem that 350,000 other people are solving the same problem. How did you come up with the idea around that this is the problem and that really no one has really solved it? Yeah. Well, the thing is, is that I was part of the problem every day. I worked with the biggest companies in the world when I was at Microsoft for five years. They complained to me about this problem every single day. So it's not like I came up with this genius idea out of the clear blue sky, right? I was brought this problem by our customers and they would complain about the Microsoft contracts to me almost every day. And oftentimes it asked me if I had the contract because they wouldn't have access to the contract and they'd lose it. So I was constantly looking up the contract details, asking Microsoft legal to get me the most version, most recent version of the contract to give it to my customers. So I knew this was a problem because I was in the trenches with these customers. I always asked them, like, I thought there was a CLM category. Like, aren't you supposed to have a contract lifecycle management tool? They're like, oh yeah, well legal use that. We don't touch that. We're in procurement and finance or IT. So I was like, wait a second. There's this huge category called CLM, but I never run into a CLM. And I kid you not, Dan, I was doing a $100 million contract with one of the biggest auto companies in the world. And I said to them, hey, question for you, a weird question. After you sign this $100 million contract, where are you putting it? And they said, what do you mean? I said, where are you putting the PDF document that you get on a DocuSign? They said in a SharePoint folder. And that was the moment I was like, wait a second. every company is basically putting a hundred million dollars of financial commitment into a sharepoint folder this is ridiculous this is so broken and i thought we got to go solve this so after many years of hearing these problems i thought i know there's no solution in the market and you know with all due respect the clm category was built by lawyers for lawyers to do drafting and workflow it's a whole different set of use cases than what we're working on so i was very adamant and very confident and no one's solving this problem no one even understands this problem and i went up to microsoft leadership and i said is this a problem at microsoft and they're like absolutely we're building something in-house to solve it and that's when i knew nothing was out there because microsoft would go out and buy sap or oracle if they already had it would have already had it so microsoft in my opinion the best leadership team in the world i nothing but love and respect for that leadership team and i thought wait if microsoft's building it in-house everyone's gonna have to build it in-house we're gonna go build it for the fortune 500 and that was you know the moment i went and started pitching to my founders and the early employees about this problem and they were like are you sure about this problem i said listen i live this every single day and i can tell you no one solved it and now people are finally catching on people are starting to copy us obviously uh six years later but you know i think it a good thing it just validates the size of the market and this is uh you know this is a literally a 10 to 20 trillion dollar problem so you know we believe there gonna be a lot of players in the space but we know we first and we believe we gonna be the best at solving it you had a head start that good i think i think that the smartest thing that i've heard from from founders like the most successful people is they experience the problem clients have the problem because if you create something and no one else has the problem how are you gonna get any clients i have to tell you this because this is true i remember being in my office at home frustrated because my client this auto company that everyone knows asked me to build a powerpoint presentation of all their microsoft contracts they have in every country and i thought to myself this is ridiculous this is so insane and i built it basically would copy like a screenshot into every slide and then like you put the description in the slide of hey this is your contract in europe this is your contract in mexico this is your contract in japan and i was thinking myself this is the best way to do this in 2018 this is insane we have like and i was managing spacex so i go to spacex's office and i know they were talking about building star link and sending teslas to mars so i'm like okay i'm in meetings over here talking about sending teslas to mars and then i'm over here building a powerpoint with 95 slides for contract data i'm like this doesn't make sense you know perfect storm for you yeah it was the perfect start i was like this is amazing and i was sitting in la traffic probably like you a lot in the 405 you know i was always in la traffic going for meetings orange county san diego sitting there staring at my dashboard thinking myself i gotta solve this problem i gotta solve this problem right and i would constantly come in my head like how is this right in front of me how am i so fortunate to have this problem right in front of me and not do anything about it i got to take this chance i got to take this risk you know and i was a young guy no wife no kids perfect opportunity to do it and uh timing's very important in life it seems timing can almost be everything so you you create it you start it you you're going all in how did you get the first enterprise clients because i'm guessing enterprise is would enterprise be your client and oh yeah fortune 500 i honestly even fortune 100 is our primary customer base like the biggest companies in the world are turzo customers was that is that a long because i've heard it's a long cycle very long for that very long so how how is that in the process in the beginning you know one of our first customers, believe it or not, that we got is Home Depot. And we reached out to them cold. We had no relationships there. We reached out to a few team members there and we said, hey, we came up with this idea. We're solving this contract problem. We think we might be able to help you with your vendor contracts. I'm not sure if this is a problem for you, but love to share our vision and what we're building and hear if you just want to give us some feedback. And luckily, the gentleman there was a maverick innovator. And he said, hey, I'd love to hear what you guys are working on. And we brought the idea to him. And he said, this is very interesting. I do all this stuff manually in the spreadsheet so we said hey what if we did a proof of concept together very inexpensive and we could test this out and home depot ended up being one of our first ai customers helping us test all cold now that was very rare we were excited about that because we loved the hunt and chase of like getting a cold deal but we also got into one of the largest financial transaction processors in the world through our relationships and then from there we use a lot of our relationships in our network to get into these big enterprises. And that was really the challenge that we took on that, you know, quite frankly, with all due respect, Silicon Valley startups don't do. Silicon Valley startups, even the best tech companies in the world, they're not starting the Fortune 100. They're starting SMB mid-market, selling to all their friends they went to Stanford with, doing 5K deals, 7K deals, credit card swipes all day, right? Totally fine. We took a very different approach. We said, we're going to go in and get master services agreements with the biggest companies in the world, and we're going to get approved to sell to them, which means you have SOC 1, SOC 2, GDPR, all these security requirements, ISO 27001, before you go and sell your product. So I had to convince investors that, hey, we can go sell the Fortune 100 if we can get past their onboarding process. The investors looked at me like, why the hell would you start with the Fortune 100? Are you crazy? I'm like, well, that's the world I grew up in. So, you know, I started Oracle. You know how they think. I know how they think. I worked with them my whole life. I know how they operate. I know how complex they are. I know how siloed they are. From the outside looking in, it might not make sense. But from you, it makes total sense because you're in the mind of the people of the problem you're solving for. I worked with those people every day. And the thing is, like me, I'm a guy that when I do something, I go all in. I don't do anything half-assed. I go all in when I work with people. And I really cared about my customers' problems because they were my friends. I had dinner with these people every week. I talked to them on the phone three, four times a day. these are my these are really important partners to me and my and in order for me to be successful or my team to be successful they had to be successful first so i was really i had a lot of empathy for the pain and i really started to understand how much pain they were going through trying to manage 50 billion dollars a year of supplier spend with no data i would no tools i was like how the hell are you going to do this so i really had that empathy to go in there and And I felt really passionate about solving this problem. And that made all the difference in the world because don't get me wrong. I have some really brilliant ideas, but I don't have any experience in the space. I have a million like health care fitness ideas, but I'm not an expert in health care. I haven't worked in health care. You know how it gets mad at me. She's like, don't tell me another idea. Yeah, I have so many great ideas, but I'm like, I don't know if I can execute this. I have no experience. I have no idea how this world works. Right. And I know what you know. Right. Stick to what you know. I've also failed a lot in my life, too. When I was younger, I was always building stuff. when I was young, high school, college, always working on stuff and just, you know, just swinging for the fences and seeing what happens, just playing ball and striking out. And I realized, wow, if you don't work in the industry day to day, and I was lucky enough to start my career at Oracle right out of undergrad. And I got a great training program at Oracle. I had great management there, great leadership there. I learned so much at a young age. And then I went to IBM Cloud, IBM Watson, and I was 25. I went to Microsoft at 27. So by the time I was 30, I already worked at Oracle, IBM, and Microsoft, I had a great understanding of the enterprise. And I thought that was my IP. And I would talk to investors about it. And I'm saying, look, you know, I know problems exist and other people don't even have a clue about. So that was really the difference was being in the trenches. And that was actually the reason why I wanted to go work for those big tech companies. I wanted to get that exposure. I wanted to get that education. And I wanted to get that knowledge of doing those complex projects. And that's really what I, you know, that was my my goal early on because I never want to be like a corporate VP. I always thought to myself, like, I'm going to run my own company. It's just a matter of what. I'm a huge proponent of work in a company, work in corporations, and then start a business because the learning or go work in a business that you want to be in a certain business, go work in a business that's in that because you learn so much about the things you should do, things you shouldn't do. And then also you learn the real problems firsthand versus guessing so what what was a moment for you where you just like you woke up and you're like wow like this is this is the thing this is it like this is going to be huge i can tell you it was 2021 we were working with companies like home depot and big banks also a huge health care insurance company and i was looking at their contract data because they Obviously, we're working on these complex projects together. And some of these contracts are like 300, 400 pages long. And they signed thousands of them, literally thousands of them. So I'm like, even if you have an army of 1,000 employees, 2,000 employees, they can't go through this manually. It's just too much data. The scale is too big. So the only way to solve this is with AI for the world. It the only way this can be solved The companies can hire enough people to do this that was the moment where i was like i know it worth going all in on ai i know i gonna go meet with every investor and tell them i need 30 million dollars to go build this ai and go hire phds to build the ai i know this is the right track because everyone in the enterprise needs to do this with automation and ai it's impossible to do it all with humans and that was really the moment where i thought okay i feel confident going to all investors give us this investment the series a we you know go build more we got a seed round done too but the series a was really where we could go put real money behind the tech and we need to go build an enterprise scalable secure platform we need to hire top-notch engineers who have a lot of experience and phds and these these you know employees are really expensive and this was before any of the llms came out this is like before the ai boom of yeah like every back then it was like crypto and stuff like it was crypto and metaverse i mean metaverse metaverse tease everyone's like hey everyone's hot yeah i was in miami during covid right everyone's like oh you know facebook changed your name to meta everything's about the metaverse everyone's gonna be living in this digital world then we get nfts people are buying nfts monkey nfts for five million dollars i was like this is all junk i'm sorry but like i see these fads come and go all the time and everyone jumps on the hype train all the time and i thought this is a problem it's a fundamental problem it's not sexy first one to admit it it's not sexy but it's a real problem that's costing companies billions of dollars i know this is gonna be a problem for the next decade unsexy i think are the best like it seems like it's a gold database like i became a billionaire through a sexy bit it's always like i know billionaire from recycling is grass i mean it's always utilities right larry ellison obviously one of the biggest beasts of all time who i have nothing but respect for and obviously you know i look up to him and what he's been able to do he built everything off the database he built everything off the database and went out and acquired more companies was the foundation was the database and foundation is unsecured and we're the contract database so i look at this as oracle got the sequel database yeah we're building the contract database and where we can go with this in the future is huge but yeah everyone loves the sexy fun stuff and don't get me wrong i love space i love you know all this cool stuff they're talking about that you know fun vr ar agents all this stuff right but it's all flash in the pan stuff and people people get excited about it and then boom it disappears that's that's my thing we're at human x and i walked on to all other companies and i can't help but think in a year two years i don't think they'll exist like i'm like any llm can just copy what they're doing in five second rapper and they're all rappers and they're all like it's going to destroy most of it yeah i'm like i'm like where's the profit mark it's crazy i don't know you're all you're all paying open ai you're all paying claude to do all everything that you're you know to do all your compute it's just you're putting a cool ui and ux on top of coldness it's an hour and they're going to be fighting as everyone else is doing the same thing so humans we were talking earlier about humans right we still use a lot of humans it seems like most people are like how can i use ai and robotics to replace every human that's the feeling i get you have a different approach and feeling on things yeah hybrid approach we want to amplify humans with ai um we do think there are some jobs of course that could be fully replaced with AI and there's no need for the human element. But when you're talking about finance, when you're talking about money, really important decisions, audits, compliance, reporting, publicly traded companies, you can't 100% trust AI. That human element is critical right now, right? I'll give you a perfect example. And I love Claude, by the way, and I love Open. They're all fantastic. I use them every day. But here's the thing with Claude, and we've tested this over and over. Same thing with OpenAI. if you give Claude an MSA, a master services agreement, it's a million dollars. And then there's an invoice against that morass of service agreement for a million dollars. And there's a purchase order against that invoice for a million dollars. Claude thinks that's $3 million. That's actually $1 million. Those three documents are all the same $1 million commitment underneath the master. But things are not contextualized in the LLM. Makes sense. That's where Terzo comes in and plays. So when you're dealing with financial data, there's no room for error. That's why we believe that this human-in-the-loop review process with anomaly detection, making sure that we're QA-ing the data for our customers so they can trust the data, and our data is at 99.9% accuracy. That's why we're in business. And the reason why we are at 99% accuracy is because we knew that we needed to have humans that were highly trained using the AI that we built and making that the proprietary process, bringing humans and AI together. and that's what we pioneered in 2021 and 22. I believe we're one of the best companies in the world of that. And I think it's critical. You're a visionary. Yeah, and I think that honestly back then people were like, well, you won't need humans in the loop. You don't need humans. Agents are going to do all of this. And I said, well, not when you're dealing with financial data. If I'm writing an email to Dan, I can afford to have an error. If I'm writing a simple email, hey, write an email to Dan about us having a podcast at HumanX. Okay, cool. There's no repercussions for having errors. if i'm reporting to the doj and my data is 94 accurate i'm screwed so that is the space we play in and when it comes to this financial reporting and the analysis and the payments you can't be off by one percent so that's why we believe that there is going to be a future with humans in the loop and we're going to amplify the humans and we're going to make humans extremely efficient and you know what i love about jensen jensen made a comment recently that if you're getting rid of all your employees you don't have any new ideas he's right though and like like make your employees 10 times more productive and go build new stuff because we think okay we have 45 engineers right now just because ai is powerful we're not going to go lay off 20 engineers we're going to make those 45 engineers use clawed code and burn as many tokens as possible and go build stuff faster than everyone else so that's how we think about it right let's amplify our team let's use ai to make our team 10 times more productive 100 times more productive every time i ask for a new idea for ai it just tells me what i want to hear so you're right like i've had to recently tell my team i'm like you guys have to check yeah like because they weren't checking things and we're not dealing with financial stuff but i'm like you guys you got to check things like we assume like the ai is 100 correct and it knows everything and i'm like you really have to check like it's it's not life or death situation for us but i'm like still it doesn't look good and it's not accurate I'm not a PhD in computer science, although I worked in tech my entire life. I'm an honorary engineer. I understand how the tech works. My opinion, people can disagree with me all they want, but I don't think any of these LLMs are actually under control. I just don't. The models are like building themselves. They're literally going off in their own world. How can you govern and control that? And you look at all these foundational companies, all their heads of safety left. Yeah. Why? Because they know that the models just kind of have a brain of their own. And they're going to act. How are humans going to lock these things down? You can't even turn them off. Right. So it's very interesting right now. That's the point. We had an AI safety expert on before. And he said the people building right now don't know how it actually works. No one knows how it works. And he's like, we're like, best. Exactly. So something that I'm very passionate about, which I know you are too, is mental health. Yes. And I know Gemini just released something, I think it was today, as we're recording this, about the ability to, if you're not feeling well in Gemini, it'll actually connect you to a hotline, something which I think is unique. You have the AI chatbots that companions, which I think there's like, you know, it like can destroy your mental health. Yeah, they make it better. They don't want to be too reliant, right? It's something I don't even know. I don know if it the worst thing or the best thing for humanity It very hard to say But what are you seeing in terms of how can ai better mental health i think there a lot of opportunity and just like with social media right it could be a blessing and a curse at the same time if you let it consume you and i think if you're too reliant on ai or people are using chat gpt for their therapists right they're talking about their relationships they're talking about how they feel i think you have to be careful because if it gives you the wrong information you don't want to take that to heart and you don't want to take it too serious because you never know what these models are interpreting and how they're going to behave. But at the same time, I do believe that people can at least vent and feel comfortable and confidential and be able to tell NAI how they're feeling and get a response back. I think it gives people some type of release to do that. And that's positive for people to share how they're feeling, to type out how you're feeling. Just like journaling, right? If you journal and write out how you feel today, it actually gives you a sense of relief. I think it's a positive versus keeping it inside and holding it in your body and holding it in your organs. So I think AI can help humans a lot on the mental health side when it comes to the therapy and being able to, you know, find ways to improve their overall lifestyle or, you know, improve their nutrition or sleep better or, you know, work out, all those types of things. I think they have unlimited information now, which could benefit people like us, right? And you can get a lot of information for free really quickly, which before you had to pay personal trainers and nutritionists a lot of money. So I think access to that free information is a beautiful thing. But at the same time, we have to be careful, right? Because we're becoming too robotic. Everything we do, right? We got email. We got our Slack. We got an Instagram. We're on X. We're on all these channels. And we have to get back to the human element. We have to get back to community. And one thing I always talk about with the foundation we started on the side, right? and I talk about with the TourZone employees too, is that we have to get back in person and enjoy energy with our teammates and go out and have fun and listen to great music and eat good food and drink good wine and dance and have a grand old time and really get that personal touch because that is what humans thrive on. And we can't forget about that. And I think that we over-rotate too hard into this digital world, especially Gen Z. Thank God I'm a millennial because I see how Gen Z acts. And honestly, I'm scared for that generation because they're almost cyborgs at this point. But we need to balance ourselves out and we need to put the phones away. We need to go out and laugh and talk and, you know, get out in nature and go to the beach and go hiking and do all these things and balance our central nervous systems out. I think that's very important. And I preach about this all the time. And one thing we do at Terzo, I think other companies are starting to do this too, you know, but we're a huge, huge proponent of throwing events, having music, having, you know, really cool lights and really cool, just like, you know, experiences. And we've done this in Miami. We've also done this in Amsterdam. We're going to do this probably in Ibiza this year. We love bringing people together. Not to talk about Terzo. I'll see you there. You're welcome to come because we just want to have fun. We were so say let's get 300 people together. I've never been to Ibiza. Let's have a blast. I want to go. Oh, you'll have a blast at the beach. You come to Miami at one of our parties, right? We just, we have great people in the room. I didn't bring you three shots together. Exactly. I hope that, I hope more people, I hope more founders, executives learn. Because we are, social media makes us unsocial or non-social. Internet has driven us further away. Crazy. And as you know, like mental health, I've challenged, things have been challenged myself. I know many people have committed suicide and such and such and many young men and it's really heard about the many young men you're speaking on behalf of them because I went through the same things and even it doesn't matter if you're successful it doesn't matter if you're strong doesn't matter if you come from a great family everyone has their highs and lows you know I talk about this all the time right we're all human we all have these human experiences and we're all going to get knocked down and it's about having a great support system to help you get back up right and I think that there's a ton of opportunity and when I look at you know some of the data because i'm obviously a data-driven guy i look at some of the data about you know let's just call it gen z and the one thing is they're healthy because they're not drinking as much which is great and overall i think they're not as obese they're probably eating more healthy they're more conscious about the food they're eating but then i look at the mental health rates and it's 4x you know worse than even the millennial yeah it's like a one side healthy and on side unhealthy because because they're staying we laugh about this as something like a body healthy but mentally not healthy right so so i always question my friends because we you know we go out and we'll have a glass of wine or we'll go out and grab whatever an old-fashioned and i think to myself am i better off mentally staying at home on the couch by myself and not drinking or am i better off than going to have the two glasses of wine with dan and laughing and talking is that alcohol really going to ruin me the two glasses they drink wine they live longer because they're socializing because they're part of their community right they have a purpose they have a great sense of community and honestly i think that's the most underrated thing in our world is having a strong community doesn't have to be your family or your wife or your husband friends co-workers people you really love being around people who don't drain you people who make you feel you know a sense of happiness and enjoyment that for me is critical while we get into this ai world and everything's gonna be robots we have to also spend a lot of time and effort and i'm gonna roll this out with our HR department, once we get our series B done, I'm going to mandate people take a certain amount of time off and do retreats and, and go off and spend time in nature and get away from the screen and get away from their phones and maybe do a detox, digital detox. I think that is going to be the key to having, you know, a actual long-term success versus being, you know, uh, you know, uh, overnight success and then selling the company. We want to be around for the next 25 years. how are we going to do that consistency stability constant balance and it's not easy so i will live to 150 we need flip phones so i know i i know brandon you're you're you just entered your series b here at human x right now so many exciting things happening perfect time people want to get in touch with you how can they do so i'm pretty active on linkedin honestly i'm on linkedin every day but people get in touch with me mostly through linkedin or b card at terzo cloud typically I'm pretty responsive on email. I'm on it, but we're excited about the series B. We're very excited about changing this perception that contracts are legal documents and helping the world treat contracts like financial assets because that's what they are. And we want to pioneer this space. Want to go raise a healthy round of capital, go hire the best people. Selfishly, I've been trying to hire a lot of my ex-Microsoft teammates. I want them to come on board. And we also want to put a lot of money into community events, right? It's not just about one thing I'll tell Series B investors and I'll tell you too. This is who I am. We are high performers and we are worried about revenue and we are worried about customers. We are worried about profit margins and all those things. But it's not the only thing we're worried about. We're worried about building a strong community. We're worried about treating people right. We're worried about being kind. We're worried about making the world a better place. And that's important for us overall. We don't want to just be a company that's winning deals with customers and making revenue. We want to impact the community. We want to impact the world. and on a small scale, we've been able to do that, and it's about leadership, right? It's about leading these young kids. It's about leading these people that need hope. They need people to look up to. They need mentors. A lot of founders can learn from you. A lot of founders now are thinking about the profit. They're thinking about the quick exit. They're not necessarily thinking about longevity and things like that, which this will make a world a better place, but thank you so much for joining us, by the way. Yeah, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure, and I hope we get to do this again. Thanks a lot.