If you know me, and many of you do, you know that I like shopping. But what I really love about shopping in the time we live in is that Poshmark exists, truly. The breadth and depth of what their sellers are offering is unparalleled. My recent purchases on there have included a Kate bodysuit from a few seasons ago, a pair of MNZ ballet flats from a few years ago, and a vintage Ballantyne Scottish cashmere cardigan from a few decades ago. As I'm sure you know, you really can't find good Scottish cashmere that often, and there's tons of it on Poshmark. Plus, you can negotiate with sellers on price, so you always feel like you're getting a great deal. I am truly a very big fan. Shop Poshmark today and find what feels like you. Download the Poshmark app and use code Puck, P-U-C-K, for free shipping on your first order. That's Puck for free shipping on your first Poshmark order. Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm the chairman runner of Puck's fashion and beauty memo line sheet. And today with me on the show are Elisa Santisi and Francesca Keller, the stylists and actresses who are mother and daughter, chat about working and growing up in the fashion world, their TikTok celebrity status, and plenty more. Before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck, where I send an email called Line Sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries. Line Sheet is scoopy, analytical, and above all, fun. Along with me, a subscription to Puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics, finance, the art world, and much more. If you're interested, listeners of Fashion People get a discount. Just go to puck.news slash fashion people to join Puck or start a free trial. Happy Friday, everyone. I hope you had a great week. I am flying today, and I will be in London for a bit, and then I'm off to Milan. This week in line sheet, we really get into companies that should have sold a couple years back and miss their opportunity. Rachel Struegatz, our beauty correspondent, who's the best in the biz. She is focusing on Augustinus Bader, that fabulous skincare brand that you probably use their products. And it should have been one of the industry's big exits. And it wasn't. And I have a big thing on J. Crew where all that cool marketing that we've all loved in, enjoyed participating in has not necessarily equaled strong sales. And I did a bunch of reporting on what, or some reporting, I think there's more to come, but what the company is doing to streamline the business so they can finally please their debt holders and whatever they say, they might say the company's not for sale, but everything's for sale. Also, as I'm sure you saw Adam Badawi was named global editor of GQ. I would say, and he is currently the editor of British GQ. He's replacing our line sheet celeb Will Welch. I'd say the vibe is sort of quote unquote snooze as many people texted to me. But look, this guy seems smart. I think he's nice. He wants to do it. So maybe he'll surprise us. He was, however, quoted in the New York Times as wanting to put GQ in its quote unquote, rightful place as the North Star of masculinity and to have the magazine be more participatory in the cultural and political debates of our time. That sounds exhausting to me and not something I'm personally interested in. But again, who knows? Let's let him try. Anyway, this conversation with Alisa and Franny is way more fun than that. So enjoy. Francesca Keller and Alisa Santisi, welcome to Fashion People. Thank you so much for having us. I just need to set up that you both have on headphones and you have handheld mics and you're sitting together and Francesca has her arm around her mother and it's the I love it I'm obsessed I'm so excited to have you actually does and it's behind her but that's it I put it on now it's good I am here to support her moral support it's good you two are are both legends in in your own way um one legend in the making one longtime legend and I'm happy to talk to you about your relationship and your relationship to fashion. And as we were chatting prior to the recording, I have been following Franny's TikTok and sort of making Elisa into a famous person outside of fashion. She was always very famous in fashion, but the wearer of amazing pants. But it's just been fun to watch and I love your sensibility and and my friend Alyssa Vignan wrote this piece on you all for New York Times that I was just like I have to have them on they're they're so great but um first off can you all kind of explain who you are in your relationship I know I mentioned your mother and daughter but like why are we here today oh wait wait before we start what'd you have for breakfast I keep forgetting today to ask people what'd you have for breakfast this morning did you wait I yeah I I actually, sometimes I don't have breakfast because I snack so late at night, but I had some of a bacon, egg and cheese bagel. It's pretty good. Sounds good. It was. Was it from like a deli? From some deli in Battery Park. I think it's called like Brookside Bagels or something. I don't know. My boyfriend ordered it. That sounds great. Lisa, did you eat anything? Yes. I made myself a smoothie, which I have like four times a week. What's in the smoothie? yogurt peanut butter whole milk yogurt want to just preface that peanut butter banana almond milk frozen strawberries and frozen blueberries that's great it's what everybody should be eating every morning she's really not an almond mom though i feel like people would think that about her but she's not no you like a hot dog there was a lot of like free eating growing up No, not just natural food store stuff. A combo. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, normal house. I try to get organic, whatever, chicken. My dad is Mr. Hellman's Mayo, so, you know, there's no stopping him. And Jiffy. Like, you get the natural peanut butter, he still gets Skippy or whatever. Yeah. You can't change them. Well, the peanut butter thing is, I like Whole Foods. their sort of in-house line because it's a sort of mix of, it's not totally natural, but it also doesn't have any added sugar. So the consistency is of a traditional peanut butter, but it's not, you don't feel as like, you can't taste any added sugar or anything like that. To me, it's a happy compromise. And a crunchy. Yeah, she's a crunchy. Yes. So what brings you here today? You two are obviously mother and daughter, but you also share some crossover in your professional lives. How did that happen? well what were you gonna say through through the tiktok yeah through the tiktok um i'm an actor i have a theater company i've always been doing acting but then i started djing i've been doing that for over three years now and then i started posting her and i was just so shocked at how obsessed people were with her i mean she's not doing anything she's just like existing wearing you know to me very normal I'm not gonna say boring but like I find her style more boring than mine even though like she has really tailored obviously really nice good pieces to me I'm like whatever man I mean first of all can I just say like color and gross should really give you a discount because of the amount of people who have been asking for your glasses is out of control it's crazy I would look so stupid in those glasses but I was thinking like think so wow they're so good the comments still i get comments on old videos please where are her her glasses from what tint what level i think the trick is to tint yeah but anyways i feel like also then because of the tiktoks i started getting invited to stuff that i never got invited to that i'd probably beg her to take me to and she was like you know and then I also sometimes DJ fashion events and I think that's just kind of how it started and now I get invited to cool stuff and I'm very happy about it it's very fun all right and we both like had no idea why that one tiktok of me shopping went viral no that one I can understand it's the one of you sitting in the living room that I don't understand why that went viral. I don't either. Half the time, I don't understand it. But it could be that I'm just a little, like, I don't want to be in it. And yeah, of course, I'm not trying to draw attention to myself. In fact, it's the opposite. And maybe people thought that was funny or appealing. And it's also that Franny's funny. She made it funny. I don't think it would have been the same if she didn't make little, you know, comments. It's going to be very hard to make this a linear conversation because I have like 15 things I want to say from that. And I think, Elisa, you are so behind the scenes. Like I think of you as styling shows. I think of you, obviously, your editorial work. But also in the September issue, you are a memorable character. Like that's the thing about you. We don't talk about it. I've never seen it. I could talk about that. I know. I've never seen the movie because she didn't want me to. Which I can't believe. But anyway. But it is interesting because you don't try, but there's just something about you that is compelling to people. Like I remember when Emily Weiss launched Glossier and she was your assistant, right? Yeah. Yeah. She's babysat me a few times. Oh, wow. Yeah, of course. Like I see it. And I remember you being at her launch party and us all just being like, oh, my God, she's so cool. Like you just have. Oh, that's funny. I think it was. Was it at Weather Up or something? I was there, too. There's some really bad. I don't know. I can't remember. I mean, that's like almost 15 years ago. It was at a little dark bar. Yeah. Yes. It was. Yeah. But you do have like an essence that obviously your daughter understands. And as Franny, as a performer and a writer and all these things that you are, you clearly saw her as a character. And I just love that it has sort of but maybe if you all can talk a little bit about like, Franny, how you grew up with Elisa being this working in the fashion world and maybe just talk a bit about like your life as a kid and seeing her in that world. and Elisa as a mom in that world and raising a kid. And you all lived in Brooklyn, right? I don't want to reveal your address. I don't know. Yeah, we live in Brooklyn. Brooklyn Heights. What was that like in that era of like 2000s when you were growing up Franny and Elisa you were like really in the middle of the American fashion industry specifically but global It was less global then It felt different But what was that like as like a mother duo I don't know if that's an easy question to answer. Yeah, well, her whole upbringing, until she was, what, 15? Like she was six months when I started at Vogue. So I started there with like an infant. And I was there, you know, 10 years full time and then five years as a freelancer. So it was, you know, it was her whole, you know, formative years, I guess. But I guess for me, I knew it was cool because people would react. But also, like, young kids don't know what's going on in the fashion world. You know, I'm it's not like I I think now I'm so curious about what that was like. And I wish, you know, at this age, I could have stepped into that world because to me, my mom just went to work and came home and she wore high heels on the subway and did a crossword while balancing. And I had a really fun time visiting her at the office and like raiding the accessories closets. But, you know, which didn't happen often. No. And she didn't go to events often. It was. And when she did, I would beg her to tell me what celebrities she saw. But she's never been like in it. She's never been an intention seeker. You've never been like a socialite in your life. That's just not your vibe. I probably wished you were as a kid, but, you know, she was low key and also like a very present mom. I would not have known what was going on. Not to say something was going on, but I had no idea that she was in like the peak of the craziest fashion era, whatever, September issue galore. Well, also the peak of magazines. Yeah. to me it was normal she'd go on shoots i really just cared about the models i wanted to meet every model true and i wanted to come to sets that's all i cared about and meet like lady gaga and carly claus i did love i loved carly claus so much i did yeah it's also growing up in brooklyn at that time and raising a kid in brooklyn at that time that It wasn't as common, right? No. No. I moved to Brooklyn, like, early. Like, okay, it was 97. 90. Oh, no, 98. 98. And I wasn't, I wanted to move once I got there because it was just farther. But I loved my apartment. and, you know, my husband would appease me and say, okay, we'll get the real estate section this week. You know, we'll look for something else. And I remember, I don't know if I should say this, but like Grace Coddington saying, oh, we might be doing this shoot in Brooklyn. Sorry, Elisa. And I was thinking, I was thinking, you know, I live in Brooklyn Heights. I mean, I didn't say, but I was thinking like, you know, it was just it was looked down on, I think, you know, Brooklyn. And then everybody started moving there and then I sort of forgot about it. And now Brooklyn Heights feels like it's like so it feels like it's to raise their kids there. Yeah. And it's also feels like the and it's funny because at some point it was the epicenter. Right. and it became the epicenter again of like life in in new york whereas like now people like the the place it's like moving to bed-sty or bay ridge or something is the thing that people are like oh i have to do that i mean not even bed-sty is glamorous now too but it's interesting it seems like it all is i know you just have to get further and further What I love about fashion today is that it is less dictatorial than ever. If you want to wear bell bottoms one day and skinny jeans tomorrow, that's totally fine, as long as you make them look good. And a lot of that freedom comes from access to the secondhand market, and Poshmark is at the center of this movement. Like, you can get Michael Korsalene, Phoebe Philo Salene, Hedy Slamon Salene, and Michael Ryder Salene all in one place, and for prices that feel fair. I love that there's a lot of proper vintage on there too. I'm currently on the hunt for Phoebe Philo era Chloe. If you see anything, send me a Poshmark link. There's tons of men's stuff on there and kids stuff on there too. We love Bobo Shos. And any purchase over $500 will go through an authentication process. So if you're worried about that, there's your peace of mind. It's a great place to sell stuff too so you can buy more stuff. Find what feels like you. Shop and share your style on Poshmark today. Download the Poshmark app and use code Puck for free shipping on your first order. That's Puck, P-U-C-K, for free shipping on your first Poshmark order. For years, Gone South has been a podcast about crime in the American South. But for our new season, we're widening the lens. Through deeply reported narrative-driven stories, we're digging into the myths, scandals, and power structures that still shape the South, and in a lot of ways, the country itself. Follow and listen to Gone South Season 5, an Odyssey podcast, available now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your shows. what has kind of for both of you like looking at the way the industry has changed during that period so we were talking about the the show the documentary the september issue when it was like the biggest print magazine ever and you know over the last 15 20 years that's all changed because brands go direct. They have Instagram. They have TikTok. They have, you all are a part of like a new generation of what they call content creators now, but we're called magazine makers or journalists before or what have you. Elisa, for you, what has that been like to observe, especially because you're part of making the images, which is different than like being a person who's like writing the heads and decks in the magazine or whatever. Yeah. Well, it's just, you know, there's no money anymore and there's less, there's more work and less time to do it. Like a two-day shoot is a one-day shoot. You know, if you're doing advertising, you have to do video and it's just, you know, it's not as luxurious as it was. And I don't know. I just, Do you still like it? Yeah. I mean, I love fashion, so. And that sounds kind of trite, but I do. What are you loving right now in terms of, are there any brands that you're just obsessed with that you want more people to know about? Or pay attention to in a different way? If you like that one that starts with a D. Yeah, but I'm not sure. I mean, as far as like what I wear, I'm mostly wearing like brands that you've heard of. But what do you like that you've seen? Phoebe Philo. There are some small brands. Like, I just, I always like screenshot them. I can't think. Tell me about your relationship with Phoebe Philo. I'm curious. Because of course you love Phoebe Philo. My relationship with Phoebe Philo, well, you know. The brand. Yeah. I made some mistakes. Mostly I bought quite a bit, actually, like pants, jeans. I just bought the satin T-shirt over the weekend. I bought it, too. You did? Yeah, oh, my God. You make me feel so good. But then in the beginning, like I bought the shoes, which I didn't. I don't like the big wide. Yeah. It's too wide. And I, there's certain things. I bought a sweater with like this big shoulder and it's just not right on me. And I don't know why I bought. I kind of get, you know, salespeople kind of convince me and I shouldn't listen. But she often will go and then come back and then go and then come back before making a purchase. Oh, true. That's good. She does write a lot. When we were in L.A., she went to the Drew's Van Noten store. We were there for like four days. Three times. Oh, only because. My dad had to drive her. No, mom. Three times and she didn't get the damn t-shirt. Only because they had this room. I mean, I haven't been there in ages, but with like basics. And they had this like really good green color t-shirt. I've been looking for it for years. And I bought a pair of sweatpants. And that's the only reason. And I'd come back and I'd buy it. And I bought the green t-shirt and like a peasant. No, you didn't get it. Oh, you lost it? I lost it. I lost it. Oh, God. All right. If anyone knows that Dries green t-shirt, my mom would really love it. I think the Dries Van Noten people sleep on the Dries Van Noten basics. because the t-shirts they're very well priced and i figured it out once because i it in paris i ran into leandra medina and he was she was wearing chinos and i was like where are those from she said oh drees and then that's when i started that's that was like my entry into buying drees was buying the t-shirts and sweatshirts because the colors are amazing the make is really good and they're like 150 bucks they're not crazy i feel like this was more expensive but yeah um I also have a pair of dark denim jeans that are kind of loose. Oh, nice. I got them like five years ago and I still wear them. But I'm not like a Dries girl at the same time. I'm not a print person. No, I don't think you own any prints. Franny, as a... That's not true. You're right. You don't wear them. Anyways. Growing up and observing this world, and you mentioned your relationship with it in context of your mom, but as a person who ended up wanting to be a performer, what have you observed about the sort of transformation of media? And how does what is going on TikTok, in your point of view, have to do with all of that? well and i think this has been said so many times but i do think that these big magazines and all these people fear young people and need young people because we are now the ones kind of moving culture forward and changing it and it's like people have to keep up with these trends that are all over the place. And, you know, I go to these random fashion events and I had this thought last night. I was at an event and I was just thinking, I am sure in your time at Vogue or when you were really big in the industry, this room would have looked completely different. I mean, everyone there is young And it makes me think all of these events and parties I guess are for young people to stay cool and relevant And I just think that yeah social media kind of runs everything and influencers and the cool young kids run everything as opposed to when just the stylists and the editorial pages told you what was what in fashion So I think that that's how it's changed. Social media is everything now. And I think it also makes it difficult because, of course, how many followers do you have? Whatever. You can't get a job. They are going with a photographer with more followers or this and that. And, you know, it's pretty surface level in that way. But I think there's a lot more room for really funny, creative people to get involved in fashion. And I don't think that was happening before. So I do think it's nice to see these creative, cool young people who maybe would never be seen at a fashion. You know, they're not working a fashion job, but personal style is really celebrated, I think, in this day and age. So I think it's cool that people can express themselves and then we can all follow them through that. Let's talk about how you all started to express yourselves together through this TikTok series. How did it happen? like how did franny did you one day just say like i'm gonna do a video of my mom of course not no i just pulled my camera out and film her well first of all people don't know is she's like hilarious i mean she's deadpan humor funny if she's comfortable with you this girl is like the funniest person i know so of course i want to capture that but she'll yell at me if i post her because she doesn't want to be seen. I don't know, whatever. She's not front facing. It's hard to be funny. You were literally just funny. You just are funny. But anyways, people don't know that she's the funniest person alive. So I just film her all the time. But then I don't know. I guess I just had this idea. I don't remember. I think it just happened. I think I was I moved back from LA and I didn't really know what I was doing with my TikTok and I was starting to do these kind of snarky TikToks filming people's outfits on the streets or poking light fun at hype brands and lines outside and then I was shopping with her and I guess I just thought you know it is kind of funny like following a stylist mom shopping this is a funny experience um yeah I didn't think people would become obsessed with it though and then when I tell you it took a very very long time to convince her to willingly participate in videos I had to secretly film her most of the time still do um yeah she would text me and yell at me I wouldn't tell her when I was posting it I'd wait for her to see it because hopefully if it did well she wouldn't care as much um but it's also better that way if i don't know because it's better if you don't know yeah but i do know not when i hide the camera somewhere you can't see it while you're trying on jackets yeah that's true as someone who doesn't like the spotlight and also wants their child to be able to express themselves creatively and understands the sort of i assume you get why people are into it um but can i also say i feel like it's not really me expressing myself creatively it's more me wanting her to be known for how amazing she is yeah i see that i don't know because well you because like you do like it it's just hard for you to to get you there yeah she likes i mean i'm not a wallflower it's not like i want to hide all the time right but um it's just it i'm just not totally comfortable comfortable about it but but i do it's not it's like i i want people to recognize my work or you know that kind of thing but not you know the not you being silly tiktok is is it's difficult to look at myself sometimes i mean and i don't look at the TikTok until YOLO. I see like a little uptick, maybe a few followers. And then I think, oh, what did she put up? And then I'm like, here, welcome. I've had her take certain things down. Yeah. Which I respect. I take anything she wants to be. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I respect her wishes. Are you both consumers of TikTok? Like, do you go on there a lot? she's not she likes instagram reels in fact i thought like i wasn't worried about it at first because i thought well nobody i know is on tiktok and then i heard from like and i didn't know i was on it i heard from liana satinstein she's like she sent me it and said obsessed like and i was like what and then people started talking to you at shows is that a little sneak and um yeah i ran to some people who were like, oh my God. But it was about Franny. It was more about like, she's so funny. She's, you know. I think it's kind of fun to document it through my eyes. I guess it is a unique experience because, you know, I feel very comfortable around her editorial seniors, if you will. I think those are probably scary people to some, But to me, I feel very comforted when I see Grace Coddington and people from all of these magazines at a fashion show. No, I do. I feel very comforted. And then when I'm around influencers, I feel very intimidated and scared. So it's comforting being around your people because I'm like, oh, yeah, my mom's friends. I've known them since I was a little kid. That's fun. But I can see it through all the different lens, I guess. I think it's also a bit like only child. Oh, totally. Who likes hanging around parents and adults. Yeah, for sure. You know, she definitely has an ease with, you know. Yeah, because young people are me and old people are my best audience. I'm an only child also and I understand. You only want to be with the grownups. Yeah, they were fun. Yeah, she loved a cocktail party. I loved a cocktail. I used to say I would rather go to a cocktail party than a kid's birthday party. But I also never really understood like kids being nasty or mean. I just wasn't like that. I was very peaceful. So I think I didn't like the antics. I preferred. Yeah, let's get to the real world. Yeah, get to the point where people just do that behind each other's backs. Yeah. the thing is like obviously you're mother and daughter but you do have like an amazing chemistry and and appreciation for each other and i think for me that's why they're so good because franny totally gets why elisa is so awesome and and compelling to people and elisa totally gets what franny's trying to do and it like shows off both of your talents so well um has there been like commercial opportunities that have come out of it together like do are people constantly asking to shoot you two for campaigns now and things like that like what has what has all the attention brought to your individual careers not that there's been a few she just says no you know it's hard to stay relevant in this trying times there's something coming up that we might do we might i'm i usually have to convince her she hates comfortable but believe it or not i had to convince her to do the new york times article um she's camera shy you know yeah which you shouldn't be but she is i can't change her when i saw the email to come on this show yeah she was like i can't do it and i said come on mommy it's gonna be great she's like i it's like i don't know if i can do it i can't i'm so glad you did it a lot of it is um this is a good one we're both learning through all of this and i think if anything it's nice to push her outside of her comfort zone because you've got to just roll with what's happening um you gotta say yes yeah i mean i am i'm rolling with the punches no she is basically i think what's also cool about um all the tiktoks just going back to that is that people do recognize her work which shocked me and then i started looking at her old work that i haven't really ever looked at and i was like wow mom you're doing this like edgy cool stuff whoa you were pretty badass she's major oh my god it's so cool I mean it's what everyone is trying to do now so to me I'm also like we need to all look at her work and just realize it started everything from what I've learned it's interesting because did you all listen to the Harper's Bazaar podcast I only listened to it recently and I didn't tell you this but I I was part of it. Yeah. I didn't tell you this. I started sobbing during it. You did. I started, yeah, I started crying during it because I was just like so amazed to hear people talk about your work like that. And I didn't, you know, like I said, my mom is not, she's a very modest person. She's not telling me, she's not talking about her work. um yeah I just started crying I I have like a video of me I never put it out there but I just I don't know it was really cool to hear people talk about your work and I guess I just felt really proud I mean I was only on for like three minutes yeah and I cried um but it was it's it was such a it was hugely influential to me in growing I was a teenager during that time and that's why I wanted to be a fashion journalist. I love that magazine and I love the imagery and visual. I always knew I wanted to be a writer, but the visuals were so important to me. And I'm curious because that stuff is referenced so much. And so much of what I write about in Line Sheet is about the fact that fashion imagery now is so referential. And a lot of it goes back to that era in particular, but there are other eras. And I thought that that Versace campaign, the Stephen Meisel shot one that was referencing the Avedon from 82 was like a great example of referencing. But there was something on that bizarre. I think Paul probably Paul Cavaco probably said it where they were doing a shoot and it was based on a film. And they were like, but we and Paul said, but we had none of us had seen the film in 15 years. So you had to sort of imagine it from your memory because you couldn't like find the film on VHS or whatever. I'm curious as an image maker, Elisa, how you feel about the fact that A, that era and all this work you did is so heavily referenced. And B, like, how do you how to creative people who make images now not get caught up in the past? I don't know. I mean back to Bazaar like I knew it was a great place to be I felt very lucky to be there I mean the one thing about Liz is she it was she gave us complete creative freedom And I think that why it was so great and hired good people. Paul, Tani, Melanie Ward, like it just, there's new photographers and, you know, Fabian Barron, legend. And yeah, it was, it was, it was the right place at the right time. But I'm sorry, your question was different. You know, it's the rule of journalism is don't ask two part questions. And that's all I've been doing today. But the second part was like, so much of fashion imagery is referencing that era now, especially, but like a lot of areas, it's just all references. It's all references. I've been inundated this season with complaints about the campaigns because they are all like using the same photographers. They look the same from five years ago. Someone made a joke to me. Every campaign now looks like a Ferragamo campaign. You get a pair of shoes and a palazzo and a woman in a floral dress and you're you're done but um but I I think sometimes referencing can really work but it's different now because the references are so instant that it feels like that era and I think this is why the Carolyn Bissette show what this is going to run in a in a couple a week or two but the Carolyn Bissette show was so controversial when those first scenes of of her looks came out because people have access to the original and and I think it's creating it's it's causing like a creative crisis in image making because you just have so much access to know what the those like iconic images look like you can't it's not like you have to go to a library to look them up you can just pull them up on your Instagram and I'm curious from your perspective as an image maker Has it made it harder to make things that feel original or inspired or what have you? Or just your observations of generally of image making, maybe not even in your own work? I don't really reference that era. You know, my references are from Odd. I don't know. She's always screenshotting the Criterion Collection films. You have so many screenshots of like random movie clothing. Yeah, like in your camera roll. Love it. Maybe French New Wave or those kind of movies. Or she takes Eric Roth. Pictures of cool people on the street sometimes, too. Oh, nice. But even like, I don't know, it's like the Amish or whoever they are, the Hutterites in Montana. I mean, I have like, or 70s, you know, I reference the 70s a lot. reference the 90s so much. Because you were young. You weren't angsty young in the 90s. You were like, what, 40? Yeah. And so when you were in your 20s, that was the 70s, 80s. So that makes sense that you referenced that because that was your culture. Right. My Studio 54 Queen. Yeah. Or, yeah, in my 20s. Yeah, early 20s. Anyway. Are you, what do you think about the sort of catalog of work that's coming out now? Like just overall of fashion imagery and how it's evolved? I think there's a lot of, you know, I'm impressed. I'm not, I don't think it looks the same. I think people are pushing boundaries and, you know, there's amazing photographers doing cool pictures. I'm not really saying anything, but I. No, I think it's having a, it's nice to hear someone who's a veteran in the industry who is still, who feels positive sentiment towards what's happening now. Because so many people of your generation, my generation too, are kind of like, ugh, it's over, it's over, it's over. And it's nice. I think people need to look forward and not harp on the past or what have you. too many people do that. I mean, I think it's just that there's so much out there. That's what it is. Or, you know, trends, everybody's an expert. And like then something that you thought was kind of niche is everywhere. So it's kind of, it gets a little exhausting. Like things come and go. But, you know, there's always like some designers that will have an actual idea that is different. And, you know, like, I mean, this has been talked about forever. Like, you know, the Versace collection, that you just get very inspired by it. So... We're going to be talking about it for the next six months. I know. I mean, I want to shop at the store. Is there a new collection I don't know about? Yeah, there was. It came and went. You can buy it now, though. Great to know. Okay. So I find out my fashion stuff. I actually don't really care about. Yeah, she doesn't. I don't care. It's okay. Yeah. If I like something, I like it. But I also never wanted to work in fashion. it didn't seem like a very glamorous life to me. She saw me toiling away. Yeah, I was like, I do not want to work in fashion. I do not want to be a stylist. I do not want to have anything to do with fashion. You have to have a lot of physical strength to be a stylist. You're carrying a lot of shit. For real. Yeah, I mean, doing a shoot is like producing a little movie every time. Crazy. so yeah it's it's it's work but you know if you if you're into it it's all worth it luckily i have zero memories of you well i guess that's when people didn't work from home when they went to the office they worked and they went home they didn't work but you were never on the clock when you were with me growing up so i had really no idea what was going on i don't have any memories of you well like until you were what age there's no cell phones actually that you were till you were like four so that doesn't count yeah but the smartphones came a little later i don't know we always played yeah i have a really fun mom she's really fun still you two are an inspiration franny are you working on anything right now that you want to share with the fashion people Oh, sure. I started a production company called Girl Pox. And we're doing a bunch of plays. We just produced a short film in L.A. and that's exciting. But our whole thing is we're also producing like parties and events that are very immersive, non-male driven work, super fun stuff, community driven. I think you know it's really expensive to go see theater and plays and if you're not on a PR list you can't get into any parties so we're kind of trying to merge all of that into one thing by doing either plays or like theatrical immersive events that have comedians and fun and cool people and just anything that you know a place where you can make a friend and have a lot of fun and get your picture taken if that's what you're into. But yeah, totally. Yeah, we're just doing a lot of stuff that bring people together because I think that that's important. And I think that in fashion, I think that can be a miss. I think the fashion world's very intimidating. And anyone I knew growing up who wanted to talk to my mom about getting in the world, it seems like a world that you can't touch, that can't be breached. And now it can. And it's just an intimidating culture. So I think whatever I do, whether it's DJing or throwing events or plays, whatever it is, I just want people to feel like it's a space that they're all a part of and fun. Yeah. Well, I think your collaboration together is illustrative of that. Is that a word? Yeah, sure. Just because like your mom is an intimidating person. She's so cool. And that's crazy to both of us. No. Because she is, people will say she's, yeah, she's so not. Because she's not a calculated person at all. Like you live in the moment, I think. She's just, you're just not, you're not like, I don't know. She's just shy. But I love to hear it though. I think what this series has done has like shown a light on her as an icon in the industry. but also has shown like this is what a real fashion editor is, which is a mom who is like cool and can be intimidating because she's not like in everybody's face, which can be intimidating, but also as a human being. And so like it's it's been really fun to see that. And it does feel very modern to have that sort of exposure to someone. Elisa, do you still have fun doing this stuff and making images and styling and all of that? I still have fun styling, but I, you know, I'm still on the uncomfortable side with the TikTok. But yeah, I mean, I, you know, I'm not doing as much work as I used to. Like, I'm not getting as many jobs as I used to, but it's, it's fine because I, you know, had a long career. She's looking for hire. And I still want to work. I mean, you know, if I was, you know, I'm not dead yet. So if, if I was a young New York brand, I would hire you. Oh, that's what I would do because what you were, were really good. They can't afford you. And you're like, what do you mean? Maybe they look, they all can afford it. Let's be real. We all know how it actually works. But, but I think like you also, you had a lot of, I think about your work with like Derek Lamb, like things like that. Like I, I think you were very influential in ways that people don't even realize. It wasn't just editorial shoots. Yeah. He was, he was great to work with. I love Derek. They're so great. They're the nicest people. They're my friends. Literally. in the world. Shout out to them. Shout out to them. They'll listen. At least Jan will listen to this and tell Derek what he said. I just love the fact that you all have brought all these things together in this medium that feels very modern and it shows both of your talents and your dynamic. It's like a modern, it's like a family sitcom. I love it. It's really good. Thank you both for saying that. Thank you both for being here. It was such a pleasure. And for navigating a conversation that went all over the place, somehow we got through. I think it was great. It's always fun to do something together. I get very excited about it. It was really fun. Thank you. It was fun. Thank you both so much. And congrats. Thanks, Lauren. Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co-founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, and director of editorial operations, Gobby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, J.D. Crowley, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and Bob Tabador.
