Marques Cancelled His Roadster

Dell PCs with Intel inside are built for every moment. With long-lasting battery life and built-in intelligence, you can stay focused on what matters most. Dell Technologies, built for you. Dell.com slash Dell PCs. Security program on spreadsheets, new regulations piling up, and audit dread. It's time for Vantor. Vantor automates security and compliance, brings evidence into one place, and cuts audit prep by 82%. Less manual work, clearer visibility, faster deals, zero chaos. Call it compliance, or call it, calm compliance. Get it? Join the 15,000 companies using Vantor to prove trust. Get started at Vantor.com slash calm. For the first time in my memory, you're using two regular-sized phones. You're not using the XL or the Max. That's true. Yeah, I just saw that on the table. I had used, yeah, for those wondering, my current dailies are the Pixel 10 Pro, not the XL, and the iPhone 17 Pro, not the XL. Who are you and what have you done with Marquez? You know, it's nice having smaller phones that actually last all day. It's really nice. ["Marchez"] Yeah, what is up? People of the internet, welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts, I'm Marquez. And I'm Andrew. And I'm David. Yep, David's not here this week. He will be back with us shortly, but we do still have plenty to get into. It's September, after all. So we have iPhone Air review is out. iPhone Pro review will probably be out around the time this podcast goes out, probably later today. And then of course, some end of the year stuff. We might wanna talk a little bit about smartphone awards coming up. I think we're gonna do our kind of like preliminary smartphone award conversation. Yeah, our way too early starting to hatch out our ideas, smartphone awards, which should be fun. And then of course, we have the Met event we also got to go to. It's a lot. It's a lot. And then October is right after this. We talked about the whole event, but you got an interview with James Cameron and there was a couple clips we might play at the end of the episode. Yeah, it had a good time. I mean, I made that whole video on the smart glasses just based on how fast they've been evolving. And I put out that video kind of wondering if anyone else would appreciate it as much as I was trying to convey in the video. And it turns out a lot of people have like watched that and they're like, oh yeah, this is rapidly approaching. Yeah, I think what was also interesting is a lot of the articles got written, but I don't think people know you guys got to try everything and do your stuff before the event. That was a totally brutal. And so like a lot of articles and stuff were really positive because the actual device is good, but people were confused at how it could seem that good when the event was so bad, but it's because you guys got to try it beforehand. Did we talk last week about why the event was so trash? What happened? Oh, because we didn't find out until after. Yeah, so I guess maybe if we didn't mention it, last time we were talking about the event and how all the demos failed so poorly. And I think literally a couple hours later, Baz got on his social media and explained what happened, which was fairly, I mean, you know, again, props to them for doing a live demo and trying it, but they were trying to like isolate marks, glasses on their own Wi-Fi network, but apparently they had just accidentally isolated all metaglassness. So apparently the first cooking demo, they say, and someone can correct me on the exact terms of this, but that the metal live AI was supposed to be routed to a dev server for that. But I guess all of them were routed to it. And when he in the video said meta turn on live AI, it turned on everyone's glasses to that same server in the audience and DDoS turned itself. Which turns out to overload that. Apparently. That's still an excuse from meta. So take it as you will on if it just worked good or bad, but it is a kind of funny thing. Yeah, it makes me believe that they did that demo many times flawlessly and nothing went wrong until everyone showed up to the event with their own glasses. And then of course it went wrong. Yeah. The other one was a different, he said there was a bug where the glasses went to sleep right as the call was coming in or that seems a little worse. I also think when he was out running, I think there was supposed to be a third live demo because he said we're gonna do one more live demo and they just completely didn't say anything about that. And they're pretending it didn't happen. And it was just a montage of him running with Diplo. Which I don't know why we were watching that, but it happened. So anyway, yeah, that was interesting to see and there's been some reactions to my video too, which are really interesting. So that's out there. And like I said, September and October always a blast. Just wanted to thank you guys for following along. We've dropped bonus episodes. We've had lots of really well-received episodes here and lots more coming up. This is why we do this. This is the playoffs of our workflow and just putting together as much good stuff for you guys to stay up to date as possible. So even though it kind of feels in my head, like I'm behind, like I wish my iPhone reviews were all up last week and there'll be right on time when they do drop later this week and the next week. But thank you guys for watching them and for staying up to date with us. It's a marathon, not a sprint. We're going. The crazy thing about the air being a week and a half late, right? Some of the things, we were discussing what we thought it would be view-wise in 24 hours. It was around 3 million views, which was higher than we thought. And that video was a six out of 10 out of our last 10 videos, which is kind of crazy. That's insane. I mean, the air is very popular and when people are watching videos about it, but yeah, the fact that an extremely well-viewed video in like another month, that would be like a one out of 10 is a six out of 10, which is insane. Can I say no one has asked me any questions about the pro? I've gotten so many people texting me and messaging me and asking me about the air specifically. So you know, it's funny and maybe the video is not up by the time the podcast goes up, but my opening thesis with the pro review, it's like the other iPhones are all getting all the attention. Like the air gets the most views on YouTube and the 17 is the one most people should get. It's the best deal. But the one that most people buy is the pro and the pro max. By far, Dbrand shared with me some numbers that I wanted to give some concrete evidence of this because I've seen this many, many times, but I just wanted a real breakdown. What percent of orders do you think are the air? From Dbrand's own website. So they offer the same accessory for air base 17, 17 pro and 17 pro max, which what fraction of orders do you think are for the air? So is this the percentage of the iPhone sales or total sales on their iPhone sales? So they offer one accessory for iPhone skins, for example, and they offer the skin for the 17, the 17 air, the 17 pro and the 17 pro max. I'm going 30%. 30% air. I think it's single digits, but only because I think if you're buying an iPhone air, you're going caseless, skinless, like you are leaning into the fashion part of it. Interesting. Well, I was gonna say even, I'm assuming you're gonna tell me pro is like winning by a landslide, but I also kind of assumed people bought the pro because of the orange, which is you probably don't wanna put a skin on it. Although they're, I don't know how Dbrand's exactly doing the slots now, but you can really do some cool mixing and matching. I'm assuming with like orange, carbon or orange, like robot camo or something like that. That's my plan. Yeah. Yeah, I don't, how much air? How much air? Percentage, 13%. 5% are air. Yeah. 7% is base iPhone 17, 31% is pro and 56% is pro max. Oh my God. More than half of the orders are pro max and almost 90% are pro and pro max. Correct me if I'm wrong, but cause we have this discussion most years, we're like, the pro max is out selling everything. This is crazy. We think it's because in the US, so many people get their phones through carrier deals where you're sort of incentivized to get the most expensive phone, right? Yeah, I think a lot of people walk in the store and just go, all right, here's all the new iPhones. What's the best one? And they'll probably look at the air cause it's thin and then they'll also look at the pro and they'll go, oh yeah, the pro, the pro max is the best one every year, best battery, best cameras. I think on top of that is the way carrier deals are is they're not really telling you the price. They're saying like the difference between these two phones is like $3 a month on your bill, which is obviously leads up to being pretty expensive, but not when you look at it that way. It's like car sales. Exactly. So I think a lot of people look at the payment and they go, yep, give me the big screen, big camera, big battery, so the pro max, yeah, 56% over half. All right, so when I'm reviewing the pros, there's this interesting balancing act of, okay, these are the most pro iPhones ever and they're doing things like ProRes Raw and Genlock and things that I only really expect people who are actually doing serious work with the iPhone to take advantage of. And then it's also the most mainstream iPhone ever at the same time. That's hard to review, but that is also what's happening. So that's fun. We're talking about carriers and you mentioned Genlock. I would love if there was some guy at a carrier store who when he's trying to sell the phone. He's just like, it's got Genlock and want to see if a single person, if there's someone working at like a Verizon store out there, just pepper in Genlock every time you talk to them. Then you iPhone and see if anyone reacts. That's the only one James Cameron walks in. Yeah, he walks in and he's like, dude, this phone has Genlock, you're gonna love it. Yeah, so yeah, that review, that's all coming out soon. But what else, we want to talk about the air. I wanted to talk about, did you watch the iFixit video on the air? It just came out yesterday or today, so I haven't watched the video yet. I read the article where they gave it a preliminary seven out of 10 for a pairability and had a lot of nice things to say about being able to take off the front glass independently from the back glass. When you take off the glass, the parts are rearranged inside, but seem relatively easy to access just the battery or just things you want to replace. So good news on repairability for a very thin complex device. Oh, I'm eating my words totally because every time I talked about this phone, I was like, this will be the least repairable phone ever and it is equally as repairable as all of the other iPhones, which apparently in the last few years, I've gotten solid. They've gotten better. Not great. They're not tenants. They're not fair phones, but they're not twos like they have been in the past. Yeah, but yeah, like you mentioned, iFixit was really worried about the dual entry where you can either just go take the back glass off and get straight to the battery components or take the screen off. Yeah, and by itself, it still has that. Everything is pushed up to the top. The iFixit people said they think the battery actually really helps with the structure and helping it not bend as much by just like being extra support throughout the rest of the phone. And the components up top, they, I guess they were doing it before the release day somehow because they said there was a couple of screws that were a little tricky and a couple of the ways all the ribbon cables, because everything's so crammed up right next to the camera, were tough, but they got it out. And then on day one of release, all the disassembly guides were posted by Apple and it explains how to get all those screws and order of everything. So they were pretty impressed by that. I think it's just, we've seen all the renders of inside the phones, but seeing inside that phone is really cool because of what they did. I mean, it is like USB C port, Taptic engine takes up like 3% of the bottom. They're just like battery for 80% and then just like everything really crammed into the last 10 or 15. It makes a lot of sense. And it's funny seeing the things they chose to get rid of because obviously there's no SIM card tray at the bottom. Obviously there's no speakers at the bottom, but there is still the Taptic engine, which is very important and it is still at the bottom. And also I didn't have this thought until after I published my review, but I bet there was a lot of thought about how top heavy it could have been with that strategy because if most of the heavier components are at the top, I guess the batteries are dead. Yeah, the batteries pretty heavy. But just like how would it feel balance wise in the hand, but that obviously worked out just fine. Yeah. It just worked out really well. I can say, I feel like we kind of confirmed that the USB C housing is different and tighter because we have these metal milled stands that we use for the robot shots to put the iPhone on. And none of those, because they're not normal USB C cables, I guess the tolerances are a bit off fit in either of the phones. Just a little bit tighter, I guess, but even in the iFixit video, there's some cool stuff about how they're doing the 3D printing on whatever it is. They think it's from a patent from a few years ago that Apple has. And there's, I highly suggest going to watch the video because it's pretty cool. And at the end, they wind up taking just the frame and bending it and it actually, it only breaks at the antenna point. That's like the weak point of the frame with it. Which is very in line with a lot of previous iPhones. Like if you go all the way back to when the 6 Plus bent, it was mostly at the antenna lines too. But then obviously future iPhones have had to think a lot about that. So yeah, it turns out the interior of the phone is helpful for structure. One more fun fact from it. The battery in the MagSafe battery pack they're selling is not just similar, it is the exact same battery to the point where they battery swapped them into the iPhone Air and it booted up. Which I thought was really cool. Yeah, so they're, it's not a lazy accessory, but it's like, the fact that it's the same exact battery, but then you lose like 40% to wireless charging. Yeah, that's a cool. It doesn't actually charge the phone fully. No, it charges it. 60% right? 60-ish percent, yeah. Which is kind of a bummer. That's just cool seeing the number of what you lose. But also, some of Apple's problems sometimes are selling parts. I don't know how hard it is to get a battery, but you can buy a battery. It just comes in a really expensive case to replace it down the line. That's so interesting. I just wanna leave this idea here. One day we need to do a bonus episode. That's just all the weird patents Apple holds across so many different industries. Cause they're all out there. We can read them. And in so many other research projects we found so many weird ones like in their audio systems and I don't know, I think this is a good bonus. I think a good bonus episode would be grabbing one of those people whose whole job is to like keep an eye on patents to find things in the future. Because not only could they then talk about those better than we could, but also like I wanna know what the job is of just like I wake up in the morning, where do I check all these patents in different countries and like find the random Apple battery tech in Ireland. That's like groundbreaking. Dynamic Island in Jamaica. Yes. Is that a banger video? Top 10 weirdest Apple patents? Possibly. It might be. It's just craziest thing was they've patented. I remember when Vision Pro was like in the works and still a secret, there was all these weird patents that started making rumors get a little crazy. I love hacker news. I don't know if you spend any time there, but there's so many weird forums in hacker news that end in someone being like, like with people being like, how does this work? How does this feature in an Apple device work? And then someone goes, oh, I found the patent. They reverse engineered a thermometer out of a resistance sensor. And here's the patent for it. Sick. The one thing YC gave us that was good. Oh! Nice air hair. Nice timing. But yeah, there's a lot of interesting stuff going on with these phones. Stay tuned for the pro review if it's not out yet. And of course the 17 review, it's gonna be quote late because the phones are out, but I think it's still a really interesting phone and it'll come up later in this episode again. Oh, hinting. Yeah. I agree. I was gonna bring it up later too. I think it will. I also agree. I think it will come up. But you also did something this week. You know what else is late? Thank you. I was feeling- It can't be late if it never happens. Yeah. Probably. All right, what happened? Praneally late. I posted in the Slack, I canceled my Tesla Roadster reservation, the one that I paid for. The one you paid for? Yeah. So that's a distinction because in my account, I've for, has it been a decade yet? 27. Almost 2017, right? So it's been eight years. I've had two Tesla Roadsters in my Tesla account. One that I paid for. And the way that worked is you paid a $5,000 payment immediately for the reservation. And then within 10 days, you net $50,000 to Tesla. And then when they deliver the car, whenever that is, you will pay the rest of it, I think totaling $250,000. Allegedly. Tesla has been sitting with my 50 grand for eight years and hasn't done anything with it, obviously. Meanwhile, the other one in my account is a referral reward. So it's a founder series. And all that really means, it's gonna be maxed out, it's gonna be one of the first thousand. And I guess that's it. And I obviously didn't pay for that because that's a referral award. So I've been sitting with these both in my account for so long and I'm just like, yeah, well, one Roadster, two Roadsters, I clearly don't need two. And there was no reason for why I'm doing it now. I would have just like, how about I just do something else with this 50 grand? I'll get 45 grand back. The first 5K, I don't get that. Oh yeah, I'll get that back. But I did cancel the second Roadster in my account and I will still allegedly get one of the first thousand Roadsters and I'm fine with that. But can I tell you a fun fact? What? We were both looking up similar things, I think. If you had taken that $50,000 eight years ago and put it into a Tesla stock, how much do you think you would have right now? Just Tesla stock. Just Tesla stock. 50K at Tesla stock, eight years ago, it's probably five Xs, at least, probably more. It's probably worth 400 grand. According to finlow.io stock calculator, you would have 747 grand right now. See, that's the thing is Tesla's just had that money. The whole time. I could have done so much with that. So yeah, I'll do something else with it now. How much of that will you get? I'll get 45K back. And the thing about this, it was kind of crazy. When you call Tesla and you go, oh, I'd like to cancel my Roadster reservation. This is my favorite part. You have to call? Well, if you log into your account and you have a reservation, typically, if you don't want to go through with it, there's a cancel button. But with the Roadster, which by the way, is still in my account, because I only did this like a day or two ago, you go to manage your reservation and there is no cancel button next to the Roadster. You have to go in and hit manage. And when you hit manage, it goes, here's a phone number, here's an email address, and you call that phone number and I actually did this for a couple of days and just got voicemail, which was great. And I finally got through to someone and it was somebody in basically vehicle sales and I asked them if they could cancel my Roadster reservation and there was a really long pause and they were like, oh, Roadster? And then they put me on hold and then they came back and they were like trying to figure out who to direct the call to. And then they promised, the first person who did it, promised that they would get it canceled and get my deposit back, but just to wait a little while. And then I waited like two weeks and nothing happened. So I called again this week and it was the same guy. He then figured out how to, I get like a message in my Tesla account to put in the details of getting the money back or whatever, they're gonna mail me a check within like a month or something. So, yeah. That's still easier than trying to cancel my Planet Fitness account. I was gonna say somewhere in between like canceling your Prime account, canceling your gym membership, like there are harder things to do, but this was pretty hilariously fun. This is the most valuable car company in the world. Yes, it is. And part of the reason why is because they, for eight years. Think they got there by giving people their money back? Yeah. So now you still have one in your account. Correct. If it were to come out, you still get a road stick. If everything that they're saying is still true and I actually take Tesla's word for it, I will still be getting for free one of the first thousand. And that's the referral one. As that's the referral one. If I remember correctly, the reason you, is cause that's the founders' edition, right? Yeah. And the, you wanted one, but in the different color. The second one I was gonna get was like 52% discounted because of my additional points. So it was like, I had earned one and a half free roadsters and I just canceled the half free one to get my 50 grand back. And I'll just still get a free roadster. So instead of paying half price for two roadsters, I'll pay $0 for one. Allegedly. All of this is a legend. I honestly think you at best have a weird Tesla NFT. So yeah, they're both still in my account as of this very moment, see? Nice. Two roadsters. But yeah, that's it. No cancel button or anything, just a mystery. Yeah, this is- You can still reserve the roadster. When you click on it, this is what you get. Wait, really? I wonder, I could go there and reserve it right now. You can still pay 50 grand if you'd like to. Yeah, I would love to know those numbers. How many people are still reserving roadsters today? It can't be any. It's been seven years. Eight years since they got released. They took it off the top of the website. So it's just S3XY, solar roof, solar panel, cyber truck, power wall. I just had to in Google type Tesla Roadster and it brings you to the page. So it's- You can find it. Yeah. And they'll take your money. Oh yeah, there's still a reserve page. There's also a get updates button, which must be the least used button in any website. I'm still very out of the loop with the roadster. Have there been updates that will make it still worth it? Oh, I don't know. So here's what happens. Every year or two, Franz or Elon will go on a Tesla related podcast and the Tesla fan running the podcast will save it for the very end and go, hey, any roadster updates? And every single time this happens, Franz or Elon will very politely give no information, but they will tease that they have been continuing development on it and that it has gotten better since the original announcement. So I think Franz has said stuff like, oh yeah, no, every single spec is better than what we originally promised, which I find the range part hard to believe. 620 miles. Yeah, there's also a 200 kilowatt hour battery and 620 mile range, which I don't think that makes a lot of sense for a small sports car. When it came out, they also were saying the zero to 60 was basically only limited by like rubber, like the rubber of the tires. So if they're saying that's different, have they developed new tires? Well, no, because they were gonna do the SpaceX package with rocket thrusters, cold air. They invented new cold air thrusters. Cold gas thrusters on it. So I mean, at the event, they promised is 1.9 seconds or a 60, but now they'll do one second flat with the SpaceX package. So, yeah. Half. Yeah, so they keep promising that, but then also they will say, but it's just dessert. Like we have other things that we talked about for this whole other podcast. Cybertruck is very important. We want to ramp up production of Model Y, which is brand new. And then we'll probably refresh Model 3. And also we've got the Cybertruck and also these other things. And they'll say everything about the RoboTaxi and the RoboVan, other than Roadster. So Roadster is like the icing on the cake, the cherry on top. And they've said that every year for eight years straight. I guess my question is like, if it does come out, will it still be dope? I think if you were to be as generous as possible, which I think lots of Tesla fans are, and you give them all the benefit of the doubt, which is like, okay, they set deadlines, but they never hit them, but they eventually deliver what they promised. If that's the history of the Cybertruck, even though they didn't exactly deliver what they promised, they still delivered the truck. They didn't exactly hit the price, but they delivered the item. If you give them all of that benefit of the doubt, this would be an incredible price to performance monster. Like there are other EVs out now. There are things like, even Tesla's own Plaid Model S, but also Lucid Air Sapphire. And then you go all the way up to Remotz-Nivera. And there are EVs now that are genuinely like nine second quarter mile times, like 1000 horsepower, two door or four door, the Taycan Turbo GT is a monster. So these cars exist now, but this would be the cheapest one. This would be 200 grand with the same performance as the, well, I guess $250,000 or $2 million, Lucid Air Sapphire or Remotz-Nivera. So it would be sick. It would probably be really fun. It would be cool. It would charge a Tesla Superchargers. It would have a ton of range and it would have great software. And it would be still a compelling vehicle for some tiny fraction of people who can afford it. If it ever does come out. I think when it was first announced, these numbers have never been achieved ever by anyone. It was way cooler back then. That's why I was asked. Cause I remember when this came out, it was like a huge deal or came out, quote unquote, when they were an announcement. It was like, don't, it was like, oh, this car is going to be insane. But now it's been almost a decade. We have other super fast hypercars. Like would it still be insane? Yeah. I mean, they rolled it off the truck and they gave, I think the, if you go through the numbers one by one, it was like the zero to 60 number, we'd never seen sub two seconds ever. Today we've seen like two or three cars achieve it on a prep surface, all electric. Okay. Awesome. They'd never seen 600 miles of range on an electric car. We still have not seen that. I don't think we will, but we have not seen that yet. They also gave the quarter mile time, I think was going to be 8.8 seconds, which would be on par with the rematch, which is $2 million and nothing short of a million dollars will get under nine seconds. So that would still be pretty crazy. It's got two seats in the front and then like kind of two more small seats in the back and a removable roof and some other, I think it had a front trunk and a back trunk. So it'll be kind of unique, but nothing else too crazy. So. I can't believe I'm even giving though the benefit of the doubt, but about a month and a half ago, Elon said there will be a Tesla demo by the end of the year. Right. He did not say it was for the Roadster. So it could be for another stupid robot or another fake self-driving thing. Right. But it could be for the Roadster. So the thing that has been most consistent with this like Roadster thing is the cold gas thrusters being placed all around the car. If they're on the back of the car, they'll make the car accelerate forward really quickly. If they're on the front of the car, they can potentially act as extra stopping power. And if they're under the car, then they could- It'll fly. It'll jump, it'll fly briefly. They're on top of the car downforce. This is, by the way, entirely Elon tweets. This is no Tesla official communication. This is not like Tesla saying this is a promise they're gonna make. This is just Elon probably peeking in the lab once in a while or like the drawings on the wall of the design room and being like, hey, this thing could fly, right? So yeah, we don't know if that's what the demo was there this year, but that is potentially something that we get teased, which would be hilarious because they've already announced the car eight years ago. Are they gonna tease it again? And be like, keep waiting. But you can give us your money. There's our bugs still there. Have you seen those Instagram reel or TikTok edits that's like a bus about to crash into a wall that just keeps switching camera angles like before it crashes? What this is like? All of those are like the, this is the pacing of one piece, never actually gets to the point. Okay, what do you wanna talk about? I have a quick keyboard thing if we could serve it as hard as possible. Well, let's see the real keyboard. Well, okay, I don't have the real keyboard I'm gonna talk about, but I have an example to help us understand. Just as good. I think this is a pretty. It's just like the roadster. Let's get a demo of the technology. All right, so I've showed you guys plenty of artists and keyboards, ones that are way too expensive and crazy materials like that 10 pound Geist machine that I brought in the one time. So one thing that's people have been trying to make more premium in the keyboard world lately is key caps because even in the big, you know, full copper like weight, metal, crazy material, artisan keyboards, all the key caps are basically the same. They're either made out of PBT or ABS. There's a company called GMK that has like the monopoly on the like really. Are those plastic? ABS and PBT are plastic. And then GMK is the company that makes caps out of ABS and they're like pinnacle S tier. They're the ones everyone wants. And they're still super expensive, but at last few years, people started making ceramic key caps as kind of this like way of, you know, upscaling the materials on key caps themselves to try and have this more premium feel. I do have a example of one here. This is key caps from a company called Ponage. I just wanted to give you and. Shiny. Try and test them out. They are very glossy. And these are ceramic. These ones are ceramic key caps on a metal body keyboard. They kind of give like a slightly deeper or the keyboard world the fuckier sound. I'm sorry, what'd you call me? Marquez is typing on it right now. It's, I don't love this. Without Marquez saying anything, what do you think he's typing? Marquez is the best. You should subscribe to the Waveform podcast right now. You should unsubscribe from the MKBHD channel and move your subscription to the Waveform podcast. I'm actually typing, I am the best typist in the world. Mine's usually Andrew is the best. You just hit enter when you finish that sentence. Yes. Of course I did. And I typed it again after the enter too. So yeah, this is like kind of the step some companies are trying to take and making a more premium key cap. But Keychron just announced something a little more interesting possibly. They're making the world's first fully ceramic keyboard where the key caps end the base of it. The case are actually all ceramic. There's a picture of it in our thing. It is the same glossy all around the entire keyboard. Probably weighs 35 pounds. I'm not totally sure. It's so glossy. I don't know how this is gonna go. So it's called this Q16H ease. They're gonna be hall effects, which means you can't even change the switches really because they probably won't be compatible because of the magnetic way it attaches when it sends signals. But my main concern with this is ceramic. When it's ceramic key caps, you know, they're small. There's not a lot of break points. When you have a whole wide keyboard now made out of ceramic, what is the opportunity of just like a little drop or a rage and this thing just snaps in half? That's an interesting question. Like I crack straight down the middle. I think it should be pretty durable, right? Like ceramic, I guess it's a little bit more brittle, but ceramic shield. Ceramic shield is a totally different thing on the iPhone but that's scratch resistant. But then also remember the essential phone? Yeah, but that's not a metal rail, right? That was a ceramic back. Yeah. And that phone was like a little heavier. But imagine this is just straight ceramic. So like I'm talking less of like, will it scratch? Or like I'm talking like because it is the support of the entire case, you think about like a toilet bowl cracking. Right. I guess porcelain ceramic, how similar are those? Ceramic is not a thing. It's like a, it's a collection of unrelated materials that you can all describe as ceramic. Oh, cool. It's, it describes heat treated inorganic materials, I think. Oh no. I'm not a material scientist. But I do know that the family of ceramic materials are all extra resistant to acidic corrosion when compared to other inorganic materials, like your sweaty, sweaty fingers when you're gaming. So true. It does say they resist damage from acids and general wear and tear. They can withstand extreme temperatures, but they are also known to be hard and brittle, which is not what I want my keyboard to be. But, but, but, but. You slamming on your keyboard that hard? Bro, you're not gaming hard enough. Ceramic materials are stronger under compression than other materials. They're weaker under tension and shearing. And I would argue that keycaps mostly face. Keycaps, whole keyboard case. Yeah, tension, I see that. Is that tension? I don't know. Like if you hit the left side really hard and then the right side really hard and you put like some amount of torsional force through the whole board, maybe that's bad. Or you lose a one on one and just. Well, that's gonna be bad no matter what. No, it's not this metal one would be totally fine. Yeah, but you're gonna break your desk if you do that with that. Yeah, well, the desk is probably cheap. Anyways, I thought it was kind of interesting. Also, I have, if you wanna hold, this is a GMK ABS and this is the Ceramic Spacebar. GMK ABS is a. Like this is like the normal cream of the crop regular keycap. I feel like the best way to feel the difference or hear the difference is put your mic and tap these on the table. Plastic. Porcelain. It's like solid. They're pretty solid. The difference of them. My biggest issue is they're super shiny and glossy. Wait, this is better. Here's a plastic drop. Watch it just. Here's a ceramic drop. They're quite a bit different. Yeah, so I mean. It was very funky. Funky, funky, funky. Funky, funky. Funky sound. Idiot. Yeah, I don't know. I thought it was kind of cool. It's only $219, which is weird because some of the ceramic keycaps, I think Syracuse was the first one who was doing it. And like, I think they're almost $200 by themselves. So we'll see what this is. I think there is, it's going to be a bit lower quality, but we'll have to see one day. Keyboard's fine. Is it, also this is maybe a new question, but like the fact that almost all keyboard keycaps are plastic, is that because plastic is lightweight, you need them to be light so that you can move them around. It helps with like spring weight on a switch, but I really think it's just because it's these, I think it's way easier to do. Because there are metal. There are metal ones. Because we've done like artists in escape keys and stuff, but those are. Yeah, there are some companies that do full metal keycaps. I think the main thing is, is also when you're... Full metal alchemist. That's a movie reference, right? Show reference, close. I think it's honestly a lot of times when how the keycaps sound on a keyboard, generally keyboard cases are either plastic or metal and they just don't sound as good. It kind of the like plastic. I don't know how to describe it. The way it, yeah, it makes... There's a lot of weird noise names in the keyboard community, but I'm sure everyone's bored of this conversation by now. So. There's some fraction of people who are like, I wanna hear more typing from this keyboard. Well, I'm sure there'll be plenty of, the best part about the keyboard world is you can just listen to videos of people typing. And it's a weird hobby, but I enjoy it. There's a 17 hour U log of just typing, isn't there? I have a five hour video of typing. I do have, I think a 10 hour U log of fire, fiery crackling noises and me typing on a red and green keyboard. Do you remember when you were typing when you were making that? I think I just pulled up a like infinite monkey type or something like. Oh, just random words. No, no, no, actually I think for the Christmas one, I pulled up a Christmas song and typed the whole Christmas song and then just did it on repeat. Smart. Yeah. Smart. But yeah, okay. One more thing we want to talk about, which is we're going to really quickly just mention people who are clipping waveform for shorts. Oh yeah. I've seen, yeah. I'll just say. I've been getting it more often. Yeah. And I think this is what happened. I watched, I clicked on one, I think it was on YouTube. And then YouTube's algorithm was like, oh, you like watching MKBHD waveform shorts? And then like ran out of our own shorts to serve us. And it just started serving me all of the people who are just clipping waveforms. So I'm just getting them recommended to me now. And they're fine. It's cool that people like are entertained by clips of podcasts and like clip parts that they think are interesting, but some people are like deep frying them and like really editing them. And it's a little much sometimes. I'll allow it. I think it's okay. I just would like if they gave credit two way form or like tagged MKBHD in the title or something like that. Cause some of them I've seen clips, I think I saw them with like 120 million views. Some are a lot. Which is like, that's kind of a lot. That to be honest, which is all just from like clipping some of the things that I've said apparently in this mic. And I don't even care about that. Like we're not getting those views. It was that that specific one had zero links or credit back to waveform at all. Put a watermark of their own channel straight across the middle as if it was like all their own stuff. And then has the like audacity to have this big thing in there about like, this is fair use when it was just like straight rip from ours with subtitles and a couple B roll stuff. So like don't put your watermark over our faces for your channel. That was bad. The only other issue I have with one is they don't really give credit maybe a little bit, but then like the main thing on their channel is selling some like the link in their channel is selling some crappy like Instagram pack something. So don't sell stuff on art with our faces on it. We've had other people though that it was great. They linked that they like have our tag on all of the titles in their channel. It links to the waveform. Like if I just want people to be able to watch a clip and then be like, where can I go find this? And then have an easy way to get there. The number one behavior that we, I think there's two possible behaviors from seeing a clip like that. One is, oh, I kind of enjoyed that clip. I want to see more from that episode or more of this conversation. Where do I go to find it? Well, if it's just a random link farm or just like a person just clipping thousands of things and just blasting out all over it. Like they'll never find it. The other is, oh, that was kind of fun conversation. Next time I see, you know, this face or these people, I'll probably watch it again cause I enjoyed it. Which is kind of a net positive. Like the waveform image is just out there, which is super cool. But yeah, on the first front, it would be nice if they had a way to like tag us, please. The easiest way to do that is tag waveform in the title. So when someone sees it and likes it, they can just clip it and we will be very happy with that. And even if you don't just don't link to some sketch. Don't sell stuff on our behalf. That's just weird. And you should probably Google what fair use is. Yeah, just cause you put what fair use is doesn't mean it's fair use. It's like, do you remember? Oh, I really hope I got this right off my memory. I think it was Google when a bunch of Google stuff came out in the FTC trial, how Google employees would just say, attorney client privilege in their DMs thinking that somehow made the DM. I declare bankruptcy. Yeah, it was like the equivalent of that. I declare fair use. You know what's something that started happening recently? And I've never said this out loud, but I think I can. Which is, no, it's not specific to a company, but there was many, many, many years of me doing covering embargoed products where I would get an email from a company saying, hey, we have something to share with you. Would you like more information? If so, here's an NDA to sign. I sign the NDA, I return it, and then they send me the information that is bound to that NDA. But at least in the last like two or three years, I've gotten a lot of emails, even from massive companies that are like, hey, all of this information is embargoed, here's all the information. And it's like, I didn't sign anything. I did read your email that said the information was embargoed, but I didn't sign it. And you're just kind of like telling me that the information is embargoed, but like, is that how this works now? I don't know. Are they hoping it gets leaked? No, this is why companies who are not hoping for this thing. I mean, on like a Google tip, on a Pixel Wave. No, I think this is just like a new, faster way to just get stuff in front of the press who might, honestly, maybe there are people who don't sign it quickly and are just like missing out and they wish they could just get the cycle going faster. If they just send it out, hey, this is embargoed to this date and time, here's the information. But it kind of has the same vibe of like, I declare this secret. So, you know, you can't tell people. Just send your next one back into the signature. It says like, by responding to this email, you owe me $10,000 for my time and just like wait to see if it happens. By viewing this email, you agreed to the embargo. I get you. You agreed to get me one Tesla Roadster. Yeah. Anyway, we got more to talk about this year, especially we want to get into maybe some potential smartphone award winners. So we'll do that right after the break. But before we take a break, trivia. All right, waveform trivia time. We'll get it boys. We'll have to think about how we want to handle David's absence for this, this true year on. Maybe we'll send him, maybe I'll call him. He's in Europe. Is he in a time zone that he's awake? You could just ping him on, like to text him or something and be like, do you want a trivia question right now? Yeah, you up, just send him to you up. And if he replies, you could call him and get a trivia. Yeah, you're right. Today's question is about I fix it because we love fixing things and letting them not end up in the trash. And I also love, oh, David's up. We also love silly words. And in every I fix it kit is a tool that has a very silly word. So today's trivia question, that I've taken forever to get here. There's only one I know and it's definitely not gonna ask that one, I feel like. What is the name of the tool included in many I fix it kits that is used to pry the screen off of smartphones? I know what Marquez is writing, but I don't think that's it. Am I wrong? Can I draw it? Can you draw it? Yeah. I mean, it won't be the name. Wait, wait, used to pry open? Yes, it's a wedge tool that is used to pry open. Screens. Screens. Okay. Yeah, I think we're thinking of the same thing. Yes, but I think that's wrong. Oh, interesting. I guess we'll find out. I don't get it wrong. Okay. Well, we'll think about that. The answers will be at the end like usual. We'll also call David in at the end for podcast trivia. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Support for the show comes from Shopify. The early days of starting a business are equal parts, exciting and terrifying. It's a big risk, but it's one worth taking as long as you have the right tools. And if e-commerce is part of your new business, here's a tip, Shopify. Shopify is a commerce platform used by millions of businesses around the world. They say they can help you tackle all those important tasks in one place, from your inventory, to payments, to analytics and more. No need to save multiple websites or try to figure out what platform is hosting the tool that you need. Everything is all in one place, making your life easier and your business operations smoother. Let Shopify be your commerce expert with world-class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. You can get started with your own design studio with hundreds of ready-to-use templates. Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store that matches your brand's style. It's time to turn those what-ifs into with Shopify today. You can sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.com slash waveform. Go to Shopify.com slash waveform. That's Shopify.com slash waveform. Support for the show comes from Shopify. The early days of starting a business are equal parts, exciting and terrifying. It's a big risk, but it's one worth taking as long as you have the right tools. And if e-commerce is part of your new business, then here's a tip, Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform used by millions of businesses around the world. They say they can help you tackle all these important tasks in one place, from inventory, to payments, to analytics and more. No need to save multiple websites or try to figure out what platform is hosting the tool that you need. Everything is all in one place, making your life easier and your business operations smoother. Let Shopify be your commerce expert with world-class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. You can get started with your own design studio with hundreds of ready-to-use templates. Shopify helps you build beautiful online stores that match your brand's style. So it's time to turn those what-ifs into with Shopify today. You can sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.com slash waveform. Go to Shopify.com slash waveform. That's Shopify.com slash waveform. Support for the show comes from deal. Let's be honest, most HR platforms are stitched together using several different services and softwares all at once. Of course, the problem is when there's multiple programs at use, your AI can have trouble navigating across all of them. Deals different. It's a single AI native system for HR, IT and payroll built from the ground up. That's why AI and site deal can actually run real work, onboarding, compliance, payroll, approvals, all under your rules. Whether you're five people or 50,000, deal skills with you. See it in action at deal.com slash audio. That's D-E-E-L dot com slash audio. All right, welcome back. So it's September, as I've said many times, but you know what that also means? That also means it's September. Whoa. Wait, really? Yeah, which means it's nine months into the year and there's only three months left for phones to come out, but we are kind of approaching the end of when phones do come out. And so we can start thinking about, start considering the smartphone awards for 2025. It's still too early. There are still more phones coming out. Notably, we still think maybe at tri-fold is coming out. We still have maybe another month of like phones coming out that aren't necessarily dependent on the US holiday shopping season. Yeah. But a lot of good stuff has come out already. And so we can go through our categories. We're going to go through each of the typical categories for smartphone awards and think about, discuss what has come out this year and maybe some hot takes about what could win. Yeah, I think every year we do like a let's sit down and start just mentioning phones, making sure we don't miss anything. So doing it on the podcast sounds fun. I'm sad David's not here to see. Yeah, I have a lot of good insight. Yeah. And also there are hardly any real rules to this. Like every year we re we look back at the previous years and we go, all right, we'll probably keep all the same awards. We could add an award category. We could subtract one. We also don't just keep it to phones that I've reviewed or even necessarily phones that I've tested. We look at as many of the phones that came out during the year as possible. Typically we have tested basically every phone we consider. But yeah, that is it's all over the map. Yeah, we do have Adam here, though, who seems to maybe at this point be the person who uses the second most phones in a calendar year. I think he may have surpassed David. I would say yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so I just listed all the categories. I feel like let's go through them. Maybe throw out some things we remember that seem notable. These are last year's. So how about I'm going to pull up even what were the winners from the last year? Yeah, I don't really like this new category best orange phone. Who put that there? I don't know if I can see the CMA phone. Nice. So OK, smartphone awards 2020. I just want to say we are. Very on brand with our thumbnails, because when you just type in smartphone awards and YouTube, it's all our videos. And you can tell because it's we have a very specific style for this. And boy, do they get almost the exact same amount of views every single year. Like awkward, baby, six million, six point three, five point four, five point four, six point nine, seven. We're also a lot of comments every time because people people love talking. That's what I thought might be fun to talk about it on the podcast, because then we, you know, discuss a little and then people in the comments can give some of their suggestions as well. Yeah, typically when we do this, we're like in the middle of the studio and we're all just sitting there for like an hour discussing all the phones. We're still going to do that. Yeah, we're still going to do that. But then like the audience never has a chance to like voice their opinions. So like if you have a strong opinion, this is your chance to yell it into comments. Yeah, I agree. Actually, it was perfect. All right. First category, best big phone. Last year's winner, Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra. Yeah. So I mean, obviously S25 Ultra came out this year. I will say the phone that I used for the longest this year as my daily driver was the S25 Ultra. That's something that usually comes up at some point in the awards. So that's got to be in the running. And then the question really is just like, what is a big phone? What counts as like best use of a ton of space. The gaming phones usually come up because they're all huge and have a ton of features. There's also going to be phones that have like massive silicon carbon batteries. And they're all pretty big. Maybe not massive, but I do think we also saw the iPhone pros really starting to take advantage of being like. We are thicker. We are the promo. But like, let's throw some stuff up higher, bigger battery, get rid of the sim card tray, like I guess getting rid of a sim card tray isn't taking advantage of everything. But yeah, they did for the first time in Apple history, kind of feel like they moved towards that push of like what we want as tech people like cram everything we want in it. Yeah. That's probably only because they also had a phone that did the exact opposite. Right. And I also will, I will say about the iPhones because people always talk a lot about the iPhones and the awards. The iPhones kind of live in their own like the world where when we talk about iPhones, you usually compare it to other iPhones instead of like the entire rest of the tech world. I think iPhones, if you look at the pro max, for example, it is the most maximalist like ultra best big phone iPhone I've ever made, but it is very clearly still not as crazy as the huge like 200 megapixel main camera, 6,000 million power silicon carbon battery, 100 watt charging, massive front facing speakers. Like they don't do any of that stuff. So as good as it is for an iPhone, it's, it's tougher to give that an award when phones like that exist. Super true. So I'm looking at like, yeah, the ROG phone, usually the S 25 ultra will obviously come up. There's going to be phones like the one plus 13 even, which are still like 6.7 inch screens, 6,000 million power, silicon carbon battery. Yeah. Phones like that ultra phones. One plus was the first thing that kind of entered my mind, but that was like early on in the year, but they did seem to like shove as much in that was the beginning of this year, 13 years, January. The first one I reviewed, you know, the conversation is kind of like when people compare supercar versus hypercar. Yeah. Like the, the iPhone pro max is a supercar, but the like crazy oppo or the Xiaomi 15 ultra or whatever that, that's like a hypercar with all the specs that they give you. So that's what I think about when I think about best big phone. You don't think like pixel pro XL or like the, was it the Xiaomi 15 ultra? Those are like good phones that are big. Like the pixel 10 pro XL is a good phone that is big. But I think when I think about the award for best big phone, I think about the phone that crammed so much into it that it's kind of impressive that it's all in one phone, if that makes sense. Yeah. But there's a lot of good big phones, obviously. The other, the next category is kind of the opposite. Best small phone is my favorite category. There's usually, there's usually not a lot of good small. Well, it's gotten harder for sure. Um, but I guess we keep thinking of different ways of saying small. Like I was going to say, at what point did we just drop this category? Cause there are no small phones. That's a good point. I thought about that a lot. I do want to reward a good small phone because it feels like a unique thing to give a reward to last year's winner was the iPhone 16, which is like a, what? 6.1 inch display. Was it last year? 6.3. I think it's 6.3. 6.3. So this best phone. Cause the stat was regular 16 was 6.1. But the stat was the best small phone with a 6.1 inch display. It was bigger than the best big phone of like the first year. So yes, it is harder and harder to find a good small phone. That said, there are folding phones, flipping phones. There are other hot take. Yeah. Folding phone is not a small phone, but a flipping phone. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think a like the razor, the flip, I think these qualify. It's my argument every year I try and convince him that I think that flip is also like the small phone. I take it back. Well, it is funny though. Claire used to flip for a year and her first thing is she's like, oh, this is nice. And then she opened and she's like, this phone's so big because it's so tall. And reachability. That's the counter argument is when you open the flip phone, it is bigger than the fold closed. So I guess it's, is it a small phone when you're using the phone or is it a small phone just like when you hold it and you're not using it? I think it should be when you're using the phone. I think whole package should be part, but I do think using it when it's opened is part of it still. So it's like it's pro is also it's con. Yeah. And also phones like the, the razor and the Z fold, you can use them a little when they're closed and that is like a small phone experience. It'd be like a four inch diagonal. And you don't like do much on it, but you could like check notifications and play, pause music and do little things like that. So I just want to say I, I know Sony has made small phones in the past. So I decided to just look up Sony phones to try and figure out what the name of it is. I, it's not the. Experial, whatever. The people also ask section on Google when you type Sony phones is does Sony make phones anymore is expiry available in the US is Sony releasing a new phone in 2025? What is the downfall of Sony? Oof. I made that video. Uh, yeah. What is the most recent? There are a few phones released in 2025 that have sub six inch displays. Really? Are any of them? Okay. Are any of them in the US is the first question. One of them is. Okay. Hit me with the, with the list because I would like to hear these. The list of the list of them available in the US or those with them period of phones that came out this year with a sub six inch screen. Cause the last one I remember was like Zen phone. Are you okay if one of them has an exactly six inch? Sure. Sure. Okay. Not available in the US. Okay. The HTC wildfire E six. Okay. Exactly six inch display. This is according to GSM arena by the HTC has been dead for years. So I'm not sure how they released a phone this year. Uh, they're making phones outside the US. Right. Are they still HTC? I thought they, I thought they were again is HTC. I'm pretty sure they are. I, according to GSM arena, I was just gonna say, I just sort of GSM arena by things under six inches and release in 20. So we're looking at the same list. There's a lot of watches. However, they died. No, I think HTC's kind of like made somewhat of a comeback outside of the US. Okay. No, but number two. Yeah. The doogie fire three. Doogy. Yeah. Doogy still makes phones. Not only does doogy makes so my phones, but the doogy fire three has a five point five inch screen, meaning it is only point one inches diagonally larger than the greatest phone ever made. What's funny about this though is that screen size and this is a a phone that is like rugged, so obviously is adding a ton of exercise to that and still has top and bottom bezels. So like it is probably the footprint of a six inch, 8000 milliampere battery. Crazy. Okay. This is interesting. Okay. All right. Noted. Finally. And I, I'm not sure that this is available in the US or not, but the Nokia 150 music. That's screen size again though, right? This has a full. Andrew, look at this phone. I know. That is a small phone. That's a small phone. Oh, wait. You said the Nokia, they also have an HMD 150 music because they're owned by this. I also would just like, well, actually it's funny. The Nokia 150 music picture on GSM arena has the HMD logo on the back. Also, this phone has eight megabytes of RAM. That is a feature phone with a physical keyboard. Just so people know. This is a featureless phone. Wow. Yeah. So this is a hard category. I think I will have to include the flipping phones in this consideration. Uh, and I will also have to consider probably phones with slightly larger than six inch screens. I think you have to. Obviously, because we just had one last year when. So yeah, six point one. I think the minimal phone belongs in the small phone list. The minimal phone. No, the light phone too. But oh, no, the minimal phone is small. Is it actually small? I think the minimal phone and possibly I mean, definitely the light phone. Possibly minimal phone belongs on small phones list. They are definitely small, but are they the best small phones? Look, man, I'm just trying to I'm just trying to give you a feel to competitors. No, I agree. This is this is good fodder. No one wants to watch an F1 race that has two drivers. We got to have way more field. Lately it's pretty basically just been Norris and Piastri. It's kind of like watching poker where all the rest of the players are trash, but once in a while they pull something crazy. But like it's kind of the two main players, but you don't want to watch heads up poker. You want a bunch of people to maybe get crazy hands. Anyway, I think light phones should be minimal phone sells the keyboard. So it's still kind of big, but light phone is actually really like, look at this picture of this guy holding this. It looks like he's holding a key chain. Small little phone there. I like that idea. I like light in there. I want to know what's the biggest screen size of a phone that could win before people get mad? 6.3. Well, that's that's I think there's I don't I think someone will get mad no matter what, no matter how much we preface it by saying there is only so many phones you can click, but you might mean they have to kill a category. I don't know. I do agree with you. Maybe not yet, but it's we added a category last year, right? We added foldable. Yeah. Maybe small phone is the one that has to get taken away or does it merge kind of into design as like, yeah, we've never we say design is really good because they fit so much in a smaller category. Possibly. Yeah. Just feels like if I have best big phone, I have to have best big small phone, best small phone. They just go hand in hand. I don't know. We could get do best perfectly average size phone. Best average size. I think as long as it's in the bottom half of typical phone size, it counts as a small phone. What if you did most average phone? Just all around the most phone. The most, the most phone. It's just like a completely average price, a completely average size, a completely average space. Like this is the default phone of the year. The iPhone 14. All right. Next one is best camera. This one's always fun because it always gets the most comments. Yeah. This is the one that gives me the most anxiety. Really? Day to day. Well, the thing about camera is there's pictures and videos and there are always different weights to how much people think I should give to photos and videos. Like maybe most people take 80% photos, 20% videos, but then they have a kid and they start taking way more videos or way less videos. I don't know. I tend to value videos more because guess what? I do lots of video stuff. Like I kind of a pro video person. So I value video, maybe 50, 50 with photos. And I mean, I'm spoiler alert. I've reviewed a lot of phones this year and then the iPhone pros came out and, you know, the iPhone one last year, the pro iPhone and none of them have come out with anything shockingly better enough to make me think that they should unseat the iPhone as the best video. So the video award, if there was one, would go to the iPhone clearly. So then it becomes, OK, should the others being better at photos way enough to matter over the iPhone winning videos? And some of them are better than the iPhone with photos and they have better zooms and they have 200 megapixel sensors and way more detail and better low light and better stabilization. But yeah, how much should photo versus video matter? I think for the trophy winner, I think you probably should go 50 50. That just seems like the most fair version. But then we always do honorable mentions. So like an honorable mention of, but I think the phone that tastes just the best pictures is like a runner up. Yeah, that's a good way to differentiate and give people that knowledge. But even that stuff, because what if one phone takes the way better pictures of just like wide main camera, but then another phone takes just like maybe 10 percent worse on that, but also has a 50 X telephoto ultra wide. Like has X, all of this phone. Yeah. Yeah. I it'll be tough. I'm very, you know, I'm thinking a lot about this award because of just obviously I care about video a lot and we go shoot videos on the autofocus channel with phones and we test a lot of these phones with video. And some are impressive when they watch it, like people watch the footage and be like, wow, I didn't know the pixel 10 could shoot video this good. So it's cool that we have that, that, you know, good output, but it's the quality of how easy it is to shoot the experience, the pro like format versatility, all that other stuff. It's like, OK, the iPhone is the best for video. How much like should we weigh that in? I feel like it's almost like becoming its own category almost because I phones going in a in a they're like their video system is just in the world of its own right now. Yeah. It's like the old pixel camera. Yeah, exactly. I feel like it's a camera used to be the one, obviously. And now it's like for video, iPhone camera video is like the one, obviously. So it's kind of tough. Yeah. And it has gentlock. Just have to have instant when pro is Rossport. I mean, I was gonna say, it's almost like Marquez, this is your smartphone awards and this is based on that is you. I do like some people forget that, I think, and are like, what this is? It's like, I do. But this is what you like better. And that's totally fine. Yeah. I think I do preface that at some point in the first minute of every single award. It's like, these are my awards. These are the ones I feel like giving out. So that's the part I blink out. People usually just skip that part. Exactly. All right. Next category was best value. And last year's winner was the nothing phone to a. Okay. Let me refresh my memory for what the MSRP was at launch for that phone. Because every year the conversation is what is a value phone? Nothing phone to a. Did we change this up? Did it used to be best budget phone? Yes. And I think we started doing best value. Exactly. 349 US. So that's clearly on the lower end of like, you can buy a $2,000 phone today, or you could buy a $200 phone today. So budget value seems about right. I have something I think you alluded to already. So I think you agree with me, but I think because people still consider this the budget category will be mad at, but the base iPhone 17 with 256 base storage with all the good, like with almost all the good cameras, like it just with pro motion now, like it makes the 16 E look like such a joke. It makes the 16 and the 16 look like a joke. You know what else it makes look like a joke? The Pixel 10 base series. Because right before this launch, Pixel was like, nah, base can base can have almost or worse cameras than the pro thing, than the pro model. Same amount, but worse cameras. 128 base, you have to pay an extra hundred dollars. And the prices have gone up and old pixels like. But tensor. But Apple. Apple did the pixel thing from like three years ago where the base was such a good. It's really hard to jump up to the pro version. And yeah, Apple did that. And I'm a little embarrassed for buying a pixel. I still enjoy it, but now the question is, is it that is it so good of a value that you can give a $799 phone value award? That's a tough one. It's a really tough one, but it is that good. I mean, other phones, we had a lot of good cheap phones. And this is one where there's like a lot of phones that I didn't even test that I go back through the year. And I'm like, wow, this, these one or two Poco phones and these one or two Xiaomi phones that were specifically targeting, I think the S 25 FE came in and I use it for like one day. And I'm like, these are all, this is basically an S 25, but $200 cheaper. Like there are a lot of really good value options to consider in this category. The nothing phone to a one last year because it felt like a flagship phone. And I used it, I think before I knew the price and would have guessed it was like twice the price. Which is very impressive. Really smooth software, really good experience. That's the type of thing I look for in best value phone award. But I don't think there is a clear front runner this year. What was the price of C M F phone to pro 279. I'm on the page right now. I mean, it's pretty great. Dude, the C M F phone pro two, when you look at that price and these numbers feels like OG Poco phone. Like, oh man, I will always reminisce about OG Poco phone days of just watching anyone post any video for like four months. And the top comment was always Poco phone has better specs than this. And it's $300. Yeah, this one can't win this award though, because the best orange. So this is, I mean, some of the specs on this are pretty solid. 120 Hertz, 6.7 inch screen, 50 megapixel, two 50 megapixel cameras. I mean, it's doing 4k recording. It's IP 54. It's a 5000 million power battery. Yeah. 6.7 inch display. This thing, AMOLED, like, I don't know. That's, it's pretty solid. Yeah. Eight gigs of RAM. Pretty good spec list. You got to use it though. I got, you know, you got to make sure it's actually a good phone without just having the numbers and the fluff. So yeah, I don't remember exactly you. Oh, wait, actually your title for it is budget phone of the year. I really love it. And that was like six months ago or whatever. Four months ago? Four months ago. Yeah. That's, it has a chance. I think that's got a solid chance. And there's still phones dropping that are qualifying for this award, but that one may be one of the favorites for this award. Yeah. That's one of those ones where you have to start balancing. Like maybe it's not as good as the more expensive one, but does it get so much extra points for being this like sub 500? Yeah. But I feel like with this category, one of the things to take into consideration too is like longevity. And do I expect this phone to last longer than a base iPhone 17? Absolutely not. You know, low key. That's like a sneaky important thing for value, which is lifetime value of the phone. If you get a really good deal on a phone that lasts you one year versus if you get a pretty solid value on a phone that lasts you six years, you could really argue for the value of the phone that lasts you way longer. Um, I don't know that we have a software update timeline promise from CMF, but I do know that iPhone will last you a long time. So that's, that's a really good point for that phone. Um, okay. Next category, best battery. And, uh, I think the classic that I always say at the beginning of this is this is not just the phone with the longest battery life. This is the phone with the best overall battery experience. iPhone air because the, because the dream is just like not thinking about your battery ever like the, when you, that dream of like, I just got a brand new phone and I use it all day and I just ended the day with 55%. Oh my God. That Ellis, you got to believe me. This is, this is a really good feeling. This is living. It's a really good feeling. I know. So last year's winner was the red magic 10 pro, which was a gaming phone, which, you know, they tend to throw massive batteries in gaming phones because you use a lot of power on gaming. But when you use that phone like regular, that phone had a 7,050 milliamp hour battery and supported a hundred. What? 7,000 7,000, the silicon carbon battery and a hundred watt fast charging 80 watt charger in the box. And you could do pass through charging because with gaming, you don't want too much heat. So there was all these battery features and you could turn it down to 60 Hertz and it would just last forever. And that was the winner. That's, that's a good benchmark even for this year. 7,000 million bars and a hundred watt charging would win this year. Um, we do win. No. Wow. Funny if you just gave it to it two years in a row. Yeah. That's, you know, if, if they re-release the same phone again this year, it would have a chance. Um, there are some other really good phones with big batteries that came out, but I talked about silicon carbon batteries at the beginning of 2025, thinking we'd see a lot of them and we saw some, but not a ton. I think we saw some in some of the more advanced, riskier, um, especially overseas flagships. We didn't see them in the U S as much like now Samsung, Apple, Motorola, like the ones that are, are doing a lot of volume here, didn't do a lot of silicon carbon. I think to be fair, you made the video, the one plus video and we're like, I think we're going to see this a lot. And it was really only those couple phones off the riff and then we didn't really see much of it. Yeah. There's been some like oppo and one plus and Xiaomi and they've done silicon carbon batteries, but then like the big flagships that we see in the U S a lot, like Samsung didn't do it with the S 25 ultra. The iPhones obviously don't have it. So it's, it's going to be one of those like more daring phones again. Two. I, I've never really went through the, the GSM or even a filter thing is pretty awesome. Like I can just do sort by 2025 and batteries over 5,000 million power. Okay. What about over six thousands? Cause I think there's a, I think there's a couple good ones. Oh no, I was over 6,000. There's 201 results. It says. Damn. Yeah. Anyway, the idea with it is going to be like, can you turn down, you know, to 60 Hertz or maybe 90 Hertz and just use a phone like normal and just not even think about battery. Like that's the ideal having wireless charging. You know, the one thing that dinged that phone is it had like, I don't think it had wireless charging at all. The one plus or the, the red magic that one last year. I think that usually you want to just like not even think about it. Just pop it on a charger and it just charges fast and you're good. Fast charging is really important, but obviously having a really long life is the best. The one plus 13 this year is 6,000 million hours, 100 watt wired charging, 50 watt wireless charging and 10 watt reverse wireless charging. And I use that phone for a while and really liked the battery on it. Yeah. So yeah, that's got a shot as well. But yeah, that's, that's a, that's a pretty straightforward one. You can expect a phone with the best battery experience to win. As it should. As it should. Okay. We got five more. Best design. This one's totally subjective. Totally subjective. It used to be best build quality. Now it's just favorite design, you know, whatever I think deserves a design award for the year. Last year's winner, Huawei Mate XT, the triple fold. Duh. That's the craziest, most daring, interesting design of a year of that year for phones. Now we still are expecting maybe a Samsung tri-fold this year. So we got to stay tuned for that. We still have like the new super, super thin regular folds from a couple companies this year, like the Honor and the Samsung. And then there's just other interesting. If the edge and the air are very different designs and very striking and feel good. I always get a design award. I low key really like, I sound like such an Apple shell as someone who's literally never used an iPhone, but like, I like the pro design this year. I like the unibody. I like how it looks. I like the plateau. I think it all is great. And I really enjoy how they pushed every, like they did a physical change inside the phone to re-organize the phone, which I thought was interesting. But over the air, because they added all of that to it. They added all of it also. And if we're talking just super durable, shockingly durable. Unibody is good and cool. Yeah. I'm a really big fan of the all metal jacket is what I'm calling it with just like glass cutouts. Instead of being a glass sandwich, it's just a metal phone with glass cutouts. Do you think the air can win over the edge because you said, and I know we're just talking about design, but it is slightly thinner than the edge, but the edge still gives you the more cameras. It seems to give you more phone. Yeah. I think the edge is a slightly better design in terms of what you get out of using the phone. It still has a best design award. Well, so it has the 200 megapixel flagship main camera and an ultra wide. Now, yes, it is a millimeter thicker, but I also like the boxier. Design, it has stereo speakers. It has a bigger battery. It has like a 3,900 million power battery. So it's got more to it for being one millimeter thicker. Yeah. How much does that one millimeter matter? I don't know. Are we just going to ignore the elephant in the room, which is the nothing phone three that let you place spin the bottle on the back. Nothing phone three. They had that little screen on the back. Is that worth the design award? I think it got so much pushback that it can't possibly win the award. But it is. Yeah, I mean, it is. It's unique. That's for sure. Didn't we just see a bunch of other things that might have screens on the back? There were some rumors I just saw. Maybe that's not out yet. There was like two or three other Xiaomi phones, maybe that we're going to have big screens on the camera plateau on the back. After the I did want a while ago. Yeah. I saw a couple of those that were renders and like rumors, but I wasn't sure if they were actual real or not. Okay. Yeah, I think we did a video on one a few years ago, which is like the first what I remember the first big plateau on the back was because it had a screen on the back of that like plateau. Yeah. I think I saw some renders of like new ones, even bigger screens on the back. So all of those are interesting. I also think like the design like should service the use like industrial design, I guess should matter, which, you know, brings the, the pro iPhones back into the equation, but even something like the most boring design is the S 25 Ultra. Like it's a gray rectangle with like no camera bump, but it has all the room and does all of the things. It probably can't win an award, but that's like the starting point. Like you've got to be at least that good at design and probably better to win the award. So yeah, I don't know. I really think the two slim phones. When I think the easiest way to think about design is like, if you handed this phone to just somebody without even really turning it on and they held it in their hands and they're like, whoa, this is cool. I think the edge in the air or the things this year that feel like that previously a triple folding phone last year was like, you hand that to someone and they're like, oh my goodness. Yeah. What is this? Totally. I do think if you compare the two super thin phones, the air, the iPhone is more impressive to hold specifically because it's lighter. It's so light. Yes, it has less battery, but that like when you hold the phone and use it, it just feels like you're holding a screen. It's pretty sick. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think there's a front runner for this one yet. It's a tough one. I think this is already the toughest one. Yeah. All right. Then best foldable. This was the new category last year and the inaugural winner or was it real quick? The edge is two grams later than the air. Really? That's what this is saying real quick. Yeah. 163 grams versus 165 grams. That's sick. And it has like way bigger battery and dual cameras. That's kind of shocking actually. We, yeah, we need to hold both of them. I'll put them on a scale again, but yeah, it struck me each time I held them. Like these phones are really light. I didn't realize they're about the same. Awesome. Okay. Uh, yeah, best foldable. So last year's winner, inaugural winner, Pixel nine pro fold. We have the, uh, the announcement of the 10 pro fold still waiting to get it here to review. That will of course be in contention, but also we got the ultra thin ones now. We've got Samsung Z Fold seven. We got honor magic three. I think is what it's called. We've got potential tri fold. There's a lot still on the table. I was just going to say is the tri fold in the running. It has to be. Yeah. It's going to be a new style of tri fold also, which I'm really interested in. It could either work really well or really poorly by opening like outwards from the middle screen. Yeah. Um, that's, man, you know, we're like wrapping up our iPhone videos and part of me is like, we're through, we're kind of through. And then we're talking about all these things that still haven't come out. We haven't made videos on it. We're like, Oh no, we're right in the middle of it. So there's literally like two very important foldables coming in the next couple months, at least. Yeah. That one, there's a lot on the table for foldable still. And then also there's the flipping phones that sort of kind of gets swept under the rug because we always look mostly at the big folds because they're more interesting, but you could look at, you know, the big outside screens on these new flips, the Huawei flip, the Samsung flip, the razor. And that they're folding phones that are like reasonable for people to get price wise. These aren't 2000 plus dollar folding phones, which, which never really affected this category or at least most of the awards, but I think it maybe should matter a little bit. You can get it. There's rumors that there's another unpacked on Monday. Wait, now it's on Monday. Everything I'm reading says it's on the 29th and that's where they're supposedly going to make this announcement. So we might be right on the cusp. Okay. Of maybe the triple. I've not seen that. I tripled. We're all waiting for that announcement to happen. Cause they promised by the end of this year. And so that's what we are pretty close to. Yeah. It's September. Okay. Yeah. Lot on. Okay. A lot on the table for foldables. Three more. Maybe the most interesting ones. Right. So most improved award. We don't see very much drastic improvement from year to year for smartphones, but last year this was the pixel nine pro fold because the first pixel fold was awesome in theory, but you know, not great open. And then there's been an awesome foldable that won the award. So that was a, that was the most improved this year. Gosh, the base iPhone is going to come up again. Right. Cause immediately I just think that got promotion that got 256 base. I mean, the cameras aren't, I guess phones don't get that different year to year. Like there's not a lot that's actually different about it. It's virtually visually identical to last year. Yeah. But you could make the argument that when we gave Razer phone two, it was visually extremely similar, but Razer phone two was just, here's all the bad things about the Razer phone. Fixed it all. They fixed it all. Not like the iPhone was still just an iPhone, nothing to get that excited about. But this year it really feels like they put in the things that people have complaining, being complaining about with an $800 phone, which is promotion. I mean, no one was even really complaining that much about base storage, but giving you 256 base storage, it's, yeah, it's definitely up there. What were some bad phones of last year? That's what I was thinking about. Yeah. That I mean the one plus 13 S. I was going to say, I don't know if the one plus 12 was bad though, but one plus 13 was really good. 13 was really good. We almost, we didn't even mention the 13 S for small phone. It's 6.37 inches. Is it actually? Jesus. Okay. It's a small phone to me, but damn. What else came out? Okay. So pixels, pixel, let's see, pixel 10. Tens of a year hoping would be a big shot. It's not an improvement. If anything else is the opposite. No, yeah. Is pixel 10 the biggest disappointment? Aren't the cameras in the pixel nine better than the cameras in the pixel 10? I think one of them is. Because the pixel nine had cameras, then it went to pixel nine a and the tens using the nine a cameras, which I think are worse. I thought the 10 pro fold uses the nine a cameras. I think the pixel 10 uses the nine a cameras as well. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. Well, that's not going to win anyway. I may have bought bus to the year. Is the op-of-fine X eight ultra. There's Xiaomi 15 series. Not a lot of these are like dramatically better than last year. It's bus has been getting harder to do because there aren't as many really bad phones. There's not as many companies kind of coming out of nowhere with something like red hydrogen or you're doing most. I was on most improve, but that's also true about that's a good way to go is like bus of the year can usually win a most improved. HCC did it. I feel like the price might disqualify it, but I think nothing found three might deserve most improved because it's better in literally every spec. And I think it looks pretty cool. Oh yeah. But the price and it is two or three hundred dollars more expensive and people didn't like the design. They're pretty. Yeah. Well, I don't like people. Yeah. I think the design was fine. Didn't blow me away. But it's like phone three. Oh yeah. Like one three was a pretty big improvement. Guys, books, Palma to. What's Palma to is this year. I don't really know what the difference is. The Palma one is definitely not a phone. Is the Palma to also not a phone? Yeah, it's not. Yes, it's also not a phone. But it's lit as hell. It's pretty sick. It's barely nine a nine a. Are we going to go to these next year? What about the new TCL paper phone? Wasn't there a version in the past in this new version is like really sick and can do the like paper to full screen and like. Yeah. The e-paper improvements year to year go super hard. So in that category of phones that is a pretty big jump for the reason that you'd buy the phone. Yeah. And we have it here. I haven't done any video stuff about it. We have the 50 XL next paper. We do. Did you not see it? No. Dude, some of the stuff on the screen it can do is really cool. Yesterday. What? It even has a button that you would love that just turns the e-paper mode on and makes everything black and white. You guys love that about like the Fairphone or whatever it was. Yeah. So that's interesting. It's not a switch. So we're out. Press the button and the like screen looks normal. And then just like, like Harry Potter like turns into e-paper. It's really cool. Yeah. That might be in that. That could be in there for design also, but maybe that's more of a software design. That's like a video on that phone. We did it. It's it arrived right before chaos. That's why it is sitting in this nice little leather book thing on my desk. It's like nicely packaged and everything. It's pretty cool. That can just realize this is completely off topic for the first time in my memory. You're using two regular size phones. You're not using the XL or the max. That's true. Yeah. I just saw that on the table. I had used. Yeah. For those wondering, my current dailies are the Pixel 10 Pro, not the XL and the iPhone 17 Pro, not the XL. Who are you and what have you done with the Marquez? You know, it's nice having smaller phones that actually last all day. It's really nice. Damn, you almost had Alice on board with that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I like the XL phones. I just they're huge six. It's like a surfboard, the 6.9 inch, both of the XL versions of these films are huge. Well, I don't know. Bus of the year. I don't know if we're going to have there. There are weird, weird phones that came out this year. The sequel to the Solana phone hit my inbox. I'm sure I have that on my desk. The, let's see. What are there? It's not that many bad. Buses, buses also. All right. Buses are going to be subjected to. It's always tough to give, especially one, because you don't really want to give it to anyone. But in the past, there were so many phones just begging for it. So last year's winner for Bus of the Year was winner. Was the Zenfone 9. Oh, yeah. Because the. That makes sense. Yeah. Because of what they did to our boy. Sorry. Best small phone. The Zenfone 10 Ultra or whatever. 11. What do they call it? 11 Ultra. 11 Ultra, yeah. Yeah. That one best, uh, worst phone. Best worst. But that's a good way of putting it. Yeah. Best worst phone. Most just worstest. Cause it wasn't a bad phone. It's just they got rid of all the things we like. That's exactly right. Yeah. And that's kind of how it'll probably go with this. Like there are phones like, I don't know, would you say the Pixel 10 is a bust because Tensor didn't get better? We just say the Pixel 10 is a bust because it's a 128 base store. It, the Pixel base series used to be this like great deal and like Tensor was kind of the thing you were sacrificing. And I feel like they did this thing where they added the third camera to make it feel like you're getting a better deal, but you got a lot of worse things out of it. And now seeing iPhone, the people are supposed to be the expensive bad deal ones, bringing in all these things that on their base. I'm really mad about the story of having to pay an extra $100. No offense, but I do think that it's between like the A series and the pros with Pixel. I don't even look at the numbers. You know, the iPhone 16, the color though, the colors, the colors. The iPhone 16 was kind of bad 16. Was it or does the 16 E just look really bad? It's such it's seven. How much $600. $600 for an iPhone that only has one camera, no MagSafe, no MagSafe, no promotion, no barely any storage, barely any battery. iPhone air has also one camera and could be compared to this, but it's a thousand. Oh, it's so different. The iPhone air is nine, nine hundred to start, right? Nine ninety nine has a six point five inch gorgeous 120 Hertz OLED display. And the 16 E is not. Then they both have different single cameras. But if you made me take one, I'd take the air. Uh, a decent size, 3100 million power battery versus, I don't even know what the iPhone, when you search iPhone 16, the first Reddit thread that comes up is the iPhone 16 isn't a bad phone. That's a bad value. Yeah, that was my, that was my title, right? Or like opening line or whatever. This is on the LTT subreddit. Well, it's true. It's true. So, uh, I don't know. That 16 was disappointing in the feature set and in the value proposition. And that could also be in contention for 16. You not have MagSafe. They could correct. No, that's what we were so mad about. Oh my goodness. Yeah, that's gotta be in there. And they put, they put it in the air, which is so much. Yeah. They got to take away something for them for the cheap phone. $600 that phone. Yeah. So you're telling me that the four magnets they use for MagSafe is $400. Is too much money to put in that phone somehow. Super weird. And by the way, the one they gave me was upgraded storage. So I think they gave me a review unit that was a $900, maybe $800, 16E, which is just comedy. That's great. So anyway, yeah, Bust of the Air will be some interesting candidates for that one. And then a phone of the year, the MVP, phone of the year, the big award for 2025. So again, I'll mention again, the phones that I used the most this year in chronological or I guess in terms of time, how much I use them. Number one by a landslide is the Galaxy S25 Ultra. I use that for maybe six months, I think. Meaning like when I'd finish reviewing a phone, I would go back to it as my main. Second place, I think is the OnePlus 13, which I think I use for like a month or two. And then there's a bunch of phones with like tiny slivers of the pie after that. And lately I'm on Pixel 10 Pro for, I guess it's been a month now. We still have two months before we actually record this thing. Right. So it could get to second place if I don't switch back to whatever, but they're still reviewing other phones. So a lot of tiny slivers of that. But those are the phones that I personally liked the most to use for myself. That said, the award for MVP or phone of the year takes like the whole story into account. Maybe one landed that was just like an amazing value or like change the story about phones this year, or it was just shocking that it came out from the company that it came out from. Last year, the, let me go to the end, the phone of the year award, Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra. And that one was like, it came out in January and it was very boringly just like the best phone you could buy all year. This is the safest bet. It's rock solid software. If you want AI stuff, it's got that. If you want long time updates, it's got that. If you want good cameras and good zoom, it's got that. If you want good videos, it's got that. If you want good battery, it's got that. If you want good charging, it's got that. If you want a good screen, it's got that. If you want good build, it's got that. S Pen was there. Still miss them. Speakers were there. Build quality, it was just everything you could, it was so safe. And I was like, yeah, this is the best phone of the year. And it's kind of shocking that we don't talk about it more. So that one last year. S25 Ultra, similar in a lot of ways. And it has a Snapdragon 8 Elite and all these things are great about it. But it's still so boring. Like I feel like I'm looking around at the rest of the landscape of phones and like iPhone era made an enormous splash. Pro iPhones are interesting. Pixel 10 is odd from Google. Like we have a lot to say about it. S25 FE is interesting. Base iPhone 17 is also interesting for phone of the year. Just how much of a leap they made possibly being most improved and having all the stuff that we were hoping to finally come to the iPhone, finally did. Yeah, there's a lot. Maybe if this tri-fold is sick from Samsung, maybe that's a candidate for phone of the year. So there's a lot that is in contention to sort of take the story, the mantle for like the phone that represents the year in phones. The tri-fold is going to be so interesting to see because that is such opportunity to be like the coolest phone of the year or just the absolute dumbest phone of the year. Or boss. Yeah, like because we know that thing's going to, how much do you think it's going to cost? You think it's going to hit three grand? Well, I think we tried to guess last time where like Samsung makes phones at these prices. I think if you go one screen, you're going to spend a thousand. If you go two screens, you're going to spend two thousand. If you go tri-fold, you get three thousand. Yeah, I think that's probably what we're looking at. Three thousand dollar phone. But what if it's the sickest ever? What if it's just as thin as our other phone and has like a nine and a half inch screen inside? If it doesn't have decks, I'm going to be so mad. Get ready. Prepare yourself. Yeah, there's, there's a couple of interesting ways that this could go. I'm so interested with the comments say too. Yeah. Interesting year in phones. There's been so many foldables. I feel like a foldable, it's more likely than ever that a foldable could, could finally win MVP because I don't think it ever has. I don't think one or maybe it never really. I don't think that really depends on how the 10 pro fold comes out and the Samsung tri-fold like, cause right now it would be Z Fold seven, right? Like that would be the winner. Best foldable. Probably. Like if it's going to be like a foldable that wins that category, like the first best phone of the year. Yeah. Cause there's other foldables that did like small parts of the puzzle. Well, like the honor magic is like so thin and impressive, but also like softwares kind of a mess and other parts aren't as good. Samsung's foldable is just like super thin and the rest is good too. So that would probably check out. But yeah, that is, that is something we'll be thinking a lot about between now and December 29th. Please let us know. I eventually shoot that video. Yeah. Y'all let us in the comments, tell us what you think we should win each category. And we should take a quick break. But before we do that, one more trivia question. Trivia, dude. So, Marquez, you finally canceled your Tesla roadster. But you know who didn't cancel their roads there? SpaceX, when they launched one into space. So in that launch, there was a mannequin in the driver's seat. What was the mannequin's name? It had a name. It had a name. Here's a hint based off of a David Bowie song. Oh, do you know? Oh, wait, I know. I hate when Marquez gets culture references over me. Do I know this? Hold on. I need to. Yeah. Hmm. No, I don't know. I don't know much about David Bowie. I was really hoping you were about to put an old John reference in. I'm going to give you a hint. It was probably a bad idea, but I give you a hint that will hopefully help me remember. It's definitely. No, I'm not going to say it. It's definitely based on a song name. It's one of his song names. I'm pretty sure. Oh, it is. I remember. I remember it. OK, that helped me. You're welcome. That's not good. OK. Well, yeah, maybe you know it. Maybe you don't. Well, think about it. Answers will be at the end like usual. We'll be right back. Support for the show comes from CoreWeave. Everywhere you look, AI is expanding what we thought was possible. And at the center of it all is CoreWeave. Medical research and diagnosis, education, complex visual effects for movies, science and technology breakthroughs. CoreWeave powers AI pioneers around the world with purpose built tech, building what's never been built before. CoreWeave is the essential cloud for AI, ready for anything, ready for AI. To learn more about how CoreWeave powers the world's best AI, go to coreweave.com slash ready for anything. Once upon a dismal day, Bob's ice cream van looked gloomy and gray. Although he had big ambitions, his social lacked creative vision. That bad. Maybe vamp it up a tad. I have an idea. Bob launched Canva and got into gear. Create the video in the Vampire team and make it the funniest. I mean, it went viral. Bob's business. I will fight off. Now imagine what your dreams can become when you put imagination to work at Canva.com. Redeem your lab books on free bet spins or even cash in for real money. That's satisfaction from lab books. And for extra satisfaction, here's the T's and C's. Let's rock. Welcome back. We were going to talk about Marquez's James Cameron, Bob's interview at he did it Metta a few days ago. But during the break, we got into a big argument about what is more dangerous for a newcomer, specifically Marquez Brownlee, elite horse racing or Marquez getting dropped into the Red Bull F1 car. So if you're interested in that conversation, just keep this video rolling. And if you're interested in trivia, you can skip 20 minutes. It was a long conversation. But yeah, so if you're interested, something has nothing to do with tech, but we thought was a little bit a little bit of tech, a little. We thought was so good. We just had to include it. And if not, we'll see you at trivia. I was going to say, what makes you a good horseback rider? How do you? There's a little ask Olivia. She actually does. Was it helpful, but the trick one or the racing one? Equestrian, there's a bunch of different. There's a couple. There's like show. There's like different. One of the questions is like jumping. I think it's called Hunter. What's the one John Oliver calls like fancy prancing? It's like horse dancing. There's one of those also. But then there's racing, which that's the horse doing the stuff. But you have to teach it to the rider. It's the car doing the stuff in. No, the steering wheel on a horse. There's a brain in there. There is a steering wheel. It's probably more of a brain in an F1 car than a horse. That's a hilarious debate. How much skill, what takes more skill driving a car? Or equestrian? Olivia is a horseback rider. I'm going to throw an ask her how much skill there is translating from the jockey to the horse. Like, could you throw an average jockey into the best horse and that horse is still going to win? Or is it the jockey that's doing the work? I think some of the jumps they do are crazy. And like to be able to be a. An athlete on a horse of that caliber is also very hard. I guess like, is there a number one jockey? Is there a Tiger Woods jockey? Also, jockey is only racing, I believe. I think it's just like, sure. But even if we just leave it in that, like, is there is there an argument to be made that the jockey matters so much that there is like a. I think in more from Great Britain is currently the number one. I think jockeying, a big thing of that is also just being as light as possible because you're shaving off time. Whereas that's also true by the fun drivers. In fact, they're all like small. George Russell and Alex Albin are like over six feet tall. So I never podium. If you put Russell just podiumed while almost dying last week. Not almost. He's just very sick. And if you put Max Verstappen on a horse in the in the 10th best car. Yeah. No, no, this is definitely a debate. How about I don't think I think Mark has might have won because I'm reading an article called horse racing's LeBron James question mark and they're talking about a horse. But you guys are all talking. You guys are all talking about racing though. Ah, okay. Which this whole conversation started in a question, which is different. I think that's even more important in a question. I think racing is the is the place where you could argue most for the jockey. I agree. Because I think in the other. It's like that the jockey has skill or that the jockey doesn't matter. That the jockey has skill. Yeah, I'd argue the jockey has less weight in horse dancing. If you have an ugly horse, you're going to lose. Yeah. Right. Like we need to bring the Olivia on the podcast. This is a whole conversation. Explain it in tech terms. I think we can all agree the most skill for horse sport based on the rider is polo because that the rider actually has to be not only controlling the horse based on different things live, but also hitting the. Okay. Here's something to think about in horse racing. You can win without actually crossing the line. The horse can cross the line without the rider and you still win. Is that true? Mm hmm. I don't know. Like right at the end, could you just launch yourself off the horse? There is a clip. Make sure propell. There's a YouTube clip of somebody like having a like a collision falling off the horse and the horse just goes, well, wait, let's wait now and winning the race. And that was the winner. Why is anyone riding these horses? Could you make the argument that that means the Jockeys are important? Cause then if they, everybody would just jump off the horse off the start to be lighter, but then the horse, yeah. So do the horses know where to go? Or is it just that one horse? Maybe that horse is so well trained. It's like, I got to win. I got to do this. Or maybe it's just a coincidence. And I hope Wayne doesn't ride horses. She likes them so much right now. And I'm so scared. If I put you on the world's fastest LeBron James horse or I'm winning one car, which one would you be more scared? I have a much better chance on the horse. Really? I'm much better. Oh, I highly disagree. I'd be way more scared on the horse. Way more scared on the horse. Have you ever seen someone fall off a horse? It's terrifying. No, it's terrifying. But I just at least, at least in the F one car, you could go your own pace and not kill yourself like the horse. Well, that horse will end your life. I think if you, if you put me on the horse and you put me in the F one car and you say, which one do you have the best chance of like winning or podiuming? It's easily the horse. Easily. I am never podiuming in an race ever. You're never podiuming. You're never podiuming. I'm just hanging on. I don't think I'm, I think there is a sliver of a chance. How many times have you ridden a horse before? Five. I don't know. All right. So you're not podiuming in either of these things. But I think you have a better chance of coming out of this whole experience alive in the F one car than the horse. If that's the case, then a roided up super horse. I'm just hanging on. I don't think you're hanging on. Really? I don't know. Marquez, you're like six, five. It is hard, but Marquez does have really good quad strength. I think I can like, like strap me out of the back of the horse. Dude, I think, well, you don't get strapped on. You still have to, you have to like hold yourself on. You're a, you're a pretty good driver. I think you could handle, you could, you know, every lap go a little faster, get the feel of the car. You'd have people in your radio telling you what to do. Blow on the doors off. I think, I think in the F one car, you, you might not even, you, you might finish. I think if you got, I think I have a better chance of killing myself in the F one car, I really don't do it, especially on like a, on a horse race track where it's an oval and the horse is going full speed the entire time, you have no chance to adjust to calibrate yourself. If it makes like a hard turn, you're just flying off. You've fallen off that horse. It shouldn't make a hard turn. But there's way more hard turns in F one. But you're a harness. And you've, you've done hard turns in a car before. Not like, oh, I think that's, I think it's way different. But you can do the, the, the turn at whatever pace he wanted to, you know what I mean? Marquez, yeah, I think it's not fair to do, well, I guess in straight up not dying. Yes. But I don't, I don't think it's a fair comparison of like him on a horse and him just like in an F one car, like basically letting it like roll down. Okay. Which one do I have a better chance of not coming in last? I think you're going to die on the horse. I think I don't, I think that is the, I think if the horse could come in second to last place pace and I'd be okay. Okay. And in F one, I just don't see my, unless there's DNFs, I don't think I come in second to last place ever in a one race. I think I have a better chance in a car. I think the reason there's a better chance on a horse is based on the probability of like somehow he does just hang on the entire time. I don't, I think he has zero chance at beating him. I just need to know how Jackie's train. I know what F one drivers do and I know how hard what they do is I have no idea how hard what a jockey does. I'm not trying to disrespect F one drivers. I totally get that. That is like one of the most elite needs activities you can participate in. But I'm just saying Marquez Brownlee right now, you're plucked out of the studio and you are put either in an F one car on a starting grid right now. Or you are put on the back of a championship quality horse. I'm in the I'm on the horse or I'm in the Red Bull F one car. Yeah. You're a smart guy. You're a careful guy. You would, you would agree. I agree with you on this. You're on that horse. The light, the light goes. You are about to experience things that you can't believe. I would like to see Marquez because he is probably almost twice the height of most track. Yeah. How much is Jackie way? He said 110 points for average. Jockeys stand between 410, 5, 6 and way between 108 and 118. That's so specific. I will figure this out later how Jackie's train. You know, I need, we need to ask Olivia. I need to ask her this last 20 minutes and see if she continues to work with us. This is the intro. Yeah. Well, that was a fun conversation. I, I'm very much looking forward to the comments, but I think we should probably get the trivia. Yeah. Let's do it. There's a lot for people to comment about. I think so. We did all the phones. We spoke about F one and horses. I just want to say there's a lot. My disdain for horses are just because of how much my family's life revolved around horses as a kid and how much our family car smelled like horse poop all of the time. Oh, I don't actually hate horses that much. I will say shout out to my sister Simone. She did have a brief obsession with horses and luckily that did end eventually. It's an expensive hobby. It is so expensive. I have some smells like horse poop because my attention was brought to a reddit thread about me not being able to afford a phone. First of all, stop pocket watching. Second of all, that is not what I meant to say. What I meant to say was I did not feel that any of the upgrades I would get on my current phone justify a thousand dollars. And you're also excited for the folding phone. And I'm excited for the fold. Yes. And I don't trust Apple trade in values enough to buy a phone for a thousand dollars now only to buy a phone for two thousand dollars next year. Three thousand dollars out of whispered in my ear. But these are all speculation. We don't know anything. But you know what? I know that they might know. What is the name of the tool included in most I fix it kits that is used to be wedged between the screen and the phone and rip that bad boy off. Hit it. I wrote what I think you also wrote. I wrote what you definitely wrote, but I kind of don't think that's it. And I can describe the piece. I can't think of anything else. I can't think of any other silly names except for this one. Who says it has to be silly? Yeah, that was part of the question. The way I was asked the question implied that it is kind of a funny name. I have to cover my bottom answer. Can you just erase it and remember what it is? Sure. All right. Let's flip those boards around. And you're both correct. It is called a spudger. And now, Andrew, tell me about how wrong I am. I thought the little guitar picks were the thing that's the spudger. No, the spudger I thought was the long thing with the. Like flat piece at the end of it. You're right. That's what's the. What's the little guitar picks where like you use the suction cup to kind of pop it enough and then the guitar picks go in and cut out the adhesive. I don't know what those are called, but the long, the long skinny thing that you stick in there and. So I thought that was for popping off all the ribbon cable. That also you use to like push the display up and then you also use the pick to like help cut the adhesive. But I thought the pick, I thought you used the spudger to wedge it up and then the picks just hold it in the wedge. Like you stick those in there. I thought the suction cup thing pulled the screen up enough and then you jam the pick in and then you would like pull one of the or like, you know, scrape it along to take all the adhesive, then leave it in. Like you said, then do the other side. And then maybe I guess you use the spudger. I thought this was trivia. Yeah, I thought this was a horse. All right. Well, we both got it right. If my grandmother had wheels. Uh, so one thing that we have to mention also Andrew in the bonus episode last week, two weeks ago, whenever that was time is a lie. To go out. I'm, you asked a question that Marquez got right. And Ellis and I thought you were joking and didn't give him a point, but you really want to give him the point. I think you should get the point. All right. I posed it as a question for David or Marquez to get a point without me being eligible for it. So then a point for Marquez, a point for being generous charity. Nice of you. So with that point, quick update on the score. Marquez now with six, Andrew with eight and David TBD cause we're going to call them later. All right. Question number two. What was the name of the mannequin in the driver's seat of the roadster that got shot into space? This would be crazy if I got a pop culture. I know it's so funny because it's not that far away from an era of music that I, I just don't listen to any David Bowie like at all. So you hate horses and you don't listen to David Bowie. That's crazy. I don't even, I don't have an answer. You don't have any answer. Just write any David Bowie song. Here they are. One David Bowie song. I can't name a single other David Bowie song, but I do think it's this one. What'd you, is it rocket man? No, that's, that's the joke that I said before. Elton John's. I take it all back. What is the name? You said nothing. I said nothing. Well, that's also wrong. The name was Starman. Stop. That's what it is. You got, you said rocket man. I was half right. Oh man. Yeah. You got the man part. Dang. I thought, yeah. Okay. I bet David gets that one. I'm very excited to see if he gets that right or not. But anyway, lots of stuff that you guys could leave comments about how wrong we are about the budget phone of the year, the small phone of the year, how hard it is to ride horses or drive F1 cars. Many things that I'm sure you guys will light us up about. I did not say driving F1 cars are easy. I just want to say that. So everyone's worried about how they're, I'm worried about how my mom's going to call me after this and say how mean I was to horses. I just think, I just think, you know, you still have the pedals and the steering wheel in an F1 car. The horse is going to do what it's going to do with your drop. Anyway, how hard could it be? Please sign off. Thanks for watching. And, hey, next episode is correct me if I'm wrong. Tectober? Right? You're right. Next episode is Tectober. It is. Well, we record on the first day of Tectober. All right. So see you guys in Tectober. Peace. Goodbye. Way from the Spruce by Adam Malin and Ellis Ruffin. We're part of the Vox Media Podcast Network and our drive-thru music was created by Vane Sil. David. I didn't have the question yet. Welcome to Waveform Trivia, David. Where in the world are you? I am in the French Alps. She's rubbing in. Why don't you? Well, I'm in New Jersey. You asked me a question. You asked me a question. Well, I'm going to ask you another question specifically about iFixit Toolkits because on this episode of the Waveform Podcast, we talked a little bit about iFixit. iFixit Toolkits typically come with a tool that has a very silly name. This tool is used to pry the screen off of phones. What is this tool called, David? Oh, is it called the Pryor Tool? It is not called the Pryor Tool. We can't cut the music, so we're just going to have to let you stew in the wrong answer. The correct answer was the Spudger. Oh, I wouldn't have got that at all. I'm now going to turn it over to my co-host, Adam Molina. Hello, Adam Molina. Hello, David and Mel. Next question, I don't know if you saw it in a Slack, but Marquez canceled his Roadster order, so we were talking Roadster in this episode. When it was launched into space, there was a mannequin in the driver's seat. What was the name of that mannequin? There was a hint. Here's the hint that Marquez gave Andrew in the room. The name of the mannequin is the same as the name of a David Bowie song. This did not help either of them, but there is a David Bowie song. Yeah. Um, geez, I know this. Hold on. Uh, you're going to need to flip that mental board, David. Flip it. Flip it. I'm trying to flip it because I literally know this. Oh, and I didn't run out of time. I didn't run out of time. You ran out of time. You guys ran out of time. It's it's Ziggie Stardust. Ziggie Stardust. Nope. That's a guy close. It's a star man. Is it Ziggie Stardust? David Bowie song? I think it's a nickname of David Bowie's. We're an alter you of sorts. Thanks for playing. Thanks for playing this episode of Wait for it. I'm 100% sure. David. Who scored zero points keeping you in last place with three points? Enjoy France. Epic. Enjoy France. We'll see you next week. We miss you dearly. It's not the same without you. I get some. Oh, that's cute. I'll bring back some panoramas for you guys. You know what happened while you were gone, David? The entire third, the entire third segment of this week's episode is about horses. We cut an interview with James Cameron because the horse conversation was so extra. That's incredible. I love that. That deserves to happen. Enjoy your vacation. We miss you. Enjoy. We'll see you soon. Peace. Thank you. See you soon. Bye. Support for this show comes from Tasty Trade. There's two types of traders out there. The ones who settle for the status quo and the ones who push the envelope. Tasty Trade is the platform of choice for the latter. With Tasty Trade, you can trade stocks, options, futures, and more all in one platform. It offers low commissions, so you can keep more of what you earn. Become the trader you always wanted to be. Go to tastytrade.com slash box today. Tasty Trade Incorporated is a registered broker-dealer and member of FINRA, NFA, and SIPC. So, you want to start a business. You might think you need a team of people and fancy text kills, but you don't. You just need GoDaddy Arrow. I'm Walton Goggins and as an actor, I'm an expert in looking like I know what I'm doing. GoDaddy Arrow uses AI to create everything you need to grow a business. It'll make you a unique logo. It'll create a custom website. It'll write social posts for you and even set you up with a social media calendar. Get started at godaddy.com slash arrow. It's godaddy.com slash A-I-R-O.