FKA TWIGS Talks Stans, Eusexua, Seduction

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Well, no signups, no subscriptions, no learning curve. Just visit Duck.ai and start chatting. DuckDuckGo has been protecting privacy online since 2008, raising the standard for trust on the internet. Duck.ai lets you use popular AI chat tools privately, and it's free. If you want to use AI without giving up your privacy, visit Duck.ai slash Adam Friedland today. That's Duck.ai slash Adam Friedland, a private way to chat with AI from DuckDuckGo, where AI is always optional and private. This time of year, I'm trying to stay consistent with eating well, but between work, workouts, commuting, cooking isn't just happening. Tempo gives me fresh, balanced meals ready in two minutes so I can eat the way I want without losing time. Folks, Tempo delivers fresh, chef-crafted, dietician-approved meals right to your door. where each meal is perfectly portioned for lunch or dinner, and ready in just two minutes. That means real food, real fast, without the sad desk lunch or drive-through regret. 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I was like, she may have not seen a movie before. Yeah, I've seen a movie before. Okay, all right. We got that out of the way. This guy. What do you mean? I'm just... Hello and welcome back to the Adam Friedland Show, Adam here. First off, I'm doing Helium Comedy Club in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. In about two weeks, February 19th to the 21st, there's some tickets left. Low ticket warning, I believe. The following month I'll be doing Helium Comedy Club in Portland, Oregon. Noticing a trend. March 27th to the 29th. It's a great club. Very fun room. Finally, the Netflix is a joke festival. Regent Theatre, Los Angeles, California, May 9th. They've added a second show. The first one, there are only single tickets left. They said it was a tremendous—they booked a second show for me. Also I'd like to thank our members for supporting us here on youtube.com. Please guys support the show. If you like the show, it's five bucks a month. You get early access to all of our episodes and if you join at the second or third tiers you'll get your name in the credits of our show that you see today. If you'd like to join the Freeland Family Foundation you can do so by clicking the join button here on YouTube or by clicking the link in the description below. Also we have a Patreon if you prefer to support us through Patreon. There's a link in the description. Also, there's merch. adamfriedland.show. Check it out. Great crap. My guest this week is Grammy Award-winning artist FKA Twigs. Congratulations to Twigs on the Grammy. She got, what was that, Sunday night? Huge. Big one in front of the show. Listen, guys, you've seen the intros before. They're the most popular part of the whole show. Yes. They are. I agree. People watch the intro, turn off the fucking interview, which really hurts my feelings. Yeah. But it's that Caleb magic. It's that Thomas magic. It's the energy in this room. It's the CRT television. Listen, it sucks. This week has sucked. On a sincere note. It's just crappy what's going on right now. And not that that's an excuse for us not doing our work, but it's just, I don't know. Nothing, it didn't feel good. We're all in a crappy mood. And, you know, we're seeing people getting shot in the head on TV and stuff. And it's fucked up. There was a silver lining. Is that correct? At the 11th hour, we got an assist from probably the most unlikely of sources. And he had a brilliant idea to tackle the subject tastefully. So without further ado, check this out. Let's break down this idea from the top. So there's a new group that we're starting. Just explain it to me again. they're called fire you should try you should try that's immigration immigrant relations executive yeah okay so fire are the opposite of ice yeah and then how does it relate to game of thrones and you're recruiting for fire yeah and you and and you're gonna and the way you do the the uh the qualifications for ice you're gonna make the qualifications for fire tougher and make it tougher by just like another minute or something stupid oh so you have to run a mile and a half in 13 minutes instead of 14. yeah because fire is tougher than ice that's funny that's funny oh and it's like game of thrones that's why because there's fire and ice and westeros is what washington dc i think this is good and the north and the north is uh minneapolis which is freezing it's freezing in not thunder yeah but the wall is no no no but the wall is mexico yeah the wall is mexico and they're letting in fire people into the country yeah and the the fire walkers are good guys and your motto is we are fire that's funny because that's a pun on that okay i think i'm I'm going to try and do this something like this. You there? I mean, it kind of makes sense in a way. I think it's a good bit. It takes a piss out of us. Yeah, it's like a satire. Yeah. It's speaking truth to power. Anyway, Dad, I got to get back to work. I love you, though. I'm going to send you that computer. Yeah. Okay, good. Mazel tov. All right. I say we just do that. Ladies and gentlemen, this next guest was named the Godlike Genius of 2022. Is that correct? NME's Godlike Genius Award of 2022. And they haven't named one since. Twigs, everyone. Hi. She's got cake. Hi, thanks. Thank you for coming. How are you? Hi, Icy. Thank you for coming. Hi, thank you for having me. And she brought a whole squad of just some of the, you know, some of the luminaries of the fashion industry. We have Anna Wintour. Give it up for her, guys. The devil wears Prada. You tried to make me wear some, like a poodle jacket before. You wanted to wear it. I didn't want to wear it. I just wasn't sure if I was dressed cool enough because you're like a very you're a fashion do you consider yourself a fashion icon? No. Are there any days where you just want to dress like shit? Um I have I have this thing called the blues So I have outfits which are all blue Okay, if you're sad no if I just don't want to get dressed like Picasso's blues Period yeah Well, just all the clothes are blue and it's the same blue so I can put on the blues and not think about it And it kind of looks fine. What does it look like? It's like jean jacket jean shirt jean pants No, it's Canadian tuxedo. No, it's kind of very worn in patched up Japanese Leisure wear oh yeah, of course. Yeah, I know I know exactly with it. My dog is here You asked for an animal I did I feel like this is the first time I see has been on the show I see I've told this story we could cut it but I've told the story to other guests about this dog but I got her from the street yeah she was a homeless teen mom they used her to breed fighting dogs and then she met a Jewish man and he changed her life yeah she's really sweet I mean when I got her she was like depressed because they took her puppies away too young and her nipples are like distended from breastfeeding. Yeah. And she was like just, she's like come out of Vietnam. But now she's like a, she's a very happy girl. She's like 10 now. She's changed my life. You have two dogs? I have two dogs, yeah. But like little, little Ewok kind of things. Yeah, yeah, they're crazy. Do you like to take them around like legally blonde like kind of situation? They're very wriggly. I mean, before six o'clock they're very wriggly and then after six o'clock they're like floppy teddy bears. You're from the west of England, by Wales. The, like, middle, the Midwest. The Midwest. The middle of England to the west. Like, Indiana kind of England. Yeah, my family's from Birmingham. Are they Villa? Villa. Aston Villa? No. I don't know. I feel like you've never heard of sports. I grew up with a lot of sports in my house. I'm kind of, I think because of that, I just, I'm not really that into it. sports like football kind of scored my childhood because it was always on especially the weekend it would just be it's kind of nice though yeah it's nice I mean I think it's yeah it's just was always on in the background of my life but I'm the type of person like when I get home I'll put the TV on for the background noise was your town like a Tory town was it like Tory country England I think so well I mean it's kind of weird where I grew up because it's quite it's quite mixed I would say like working class and posh yeah yeah yeah I I think that where I'm from, there's not a lot in the middle. What side were you on? It's like a commuter's town. I was very much working class, but like moonlighting as middle class. Because when I first heard of you, you seemed very highbrow. You know what I mean? And then when I found out you're kind of from a small town, it was very, I didn't expect it, right? Yeah. Well, my parents are from working class Birmingham. Yeah. I have like my biological dad who is from working-class Birmingham of Jamaican descent my stepdad who raised me like actively till I was 11 he's like second generation from Barbados like very working-class first black family in a working-class area in Birmingham and my mom's from the black country in Birmingham and again like very just humble chill beginnings Yeah, was there like a notion of class that stuck with you from a young age? Because I know you went to like a boarding school, like a good school, and you were like on scholarship or whatever it's called in England. Yeah, so when I was 11, my mom just got it into her head that I was going to go to a private school, a Catholic school in Cheltenham. And she basically like coached me to get in, and I did a lot of like tests throughout my summer holidays to get into this school that had good education. My primary school had said that I wasn't intelligent enough to go to the grammar school And so my mom was just like hell no And so she basically like coached me through the summer holidays to go to a private school Was the grammar school the public school? No, well like I think grammar school is kind of like a better school But I don't think you have to pay for it But your school has to agree that you're clever enough to take the test To go to like a free, aspirational, better school, whatever that means But my primary school wouldn't put me forward even for the test so then my mom found a school that was like they had a scholarship And she put me forward for the scholarship, but the academic test was like a really big part of getting that scholarship So you were smart You seem like you're very like when you talk about your work I'm like this is a very intelligent like way smarter than me person that I'm going to struggle to ask questions about I mean it No, but like were you you you strike me as like were you like the girl that like didn't talk and was drawing Horses and stuff a little bit. Yeah, yeah We did wait were you like you the kids consider you to be like a weirdo or like a Freakazoid, um, I think growing up. I had two very distinct Personalities or versions of me and the one side was yeah like a bit of a weirdo and I was very much into like ballet and opera and so annoying how old were you into opera honestly like eight nine you didn't like the Spice Girls I loved the Spice Girls oh yeah I was a big Spice Girls who exposed you to that like that kind of stuff though well when I was nine I got a singing teacher a lady called Dorothy who was the lead singer in Carmen in the Covent Garden Opera House, and so she started teaching me to sing in Latin and Italian Opera, and that was my first training. But it was kind of... If I went to school with you, I'd be like, shut up. But I didn't tell anybody this, you know, I think that... You're embarrassed of it? It's not that I'm embarrassed. Listen, being, first of all, working class, second of all, for a lot of my life, from a single parent family, third of all, growing up in an area where a lot of it is middle class, upper middle class, keeping up with the Joneses. So already I've stood out because my mum was very free spirited, very beautiful, very daring. You know, my mum when she was younger was like really, really iconic. And so already there are a lot of things that made me stand out. Being biracial as well, there just weren't a lot of people of colour where I was from. So I think I've always kept a lot of these things secret and even now I... You know, it's something that I even battle with now a lot. people not understanding that side of me because it's funny I can kind of swing from doing a performance with Valentino and like doing something really highbrow and incredible to then really being so into my roots and where I'm calm and supporting my own community and feeling really like grounded and and expressing that part of myself which is like deeply rooted in culture and also black culture as well because I'm mixed race and these are two equally important sides of me yeah um so it's funny because like even in one of my singles I just released cheap hotel like it's just kind of super vibey in the videos really like low-key and sexy and filled with girls that I like would want to hang out with and and and beautiful women that like look different and express themselves like looking really cool and then you know I can go from that to then doing cellophane and I think it's definitely polarizing but these two sides of me like they're both a part of me. Right, like a lot of your work has, there is a class element to it I feel like. You worked as a hostess at a strip club, and you were in burlesque, and then you've kind of created characters around those experiences. Yeah. How old were you when you moved to London? I was like 16 and 17 when I first started spending a lot of time in London, and I think just before my 18th birthday when I made the full jump. Yeah, were you like one of those like, I just gotta get out of this town? You were one of those, right? No one understands me here. Not even Did you see London as like How did you view London from like a small town Was it like a dream I remember lying on my mum bed We had this tiny flat And I remember lying on my mum's bed and listening to College Dropout. Changed my life. Yeah, and I remember like listening to that. We were the same age, right? I think so, 38. Yeah, yeah, we were 16. Yeah, so I listened to that and I had a boyfriend at the time who had a car and we drove up to London and saw Kanye West at the time and Jay-Z perform, and he performed Jesus Walks in London. I remember we drove all the way up to London and then drove back that night. And it just changed my life, just hearing Jesus Walks, and everybody was just in this venue and stamping. And it just was the first time I experienced the aspiration of life through art and music, bringing me to tears as a mid to older teenager. And then I went back home and nothing was the same. I was like I need to make it to a big city like something can happen for me, but it's not gonna happen for me here We're the same. We're the same guy Seriously, I mean honestly, I wanted to move to New York so bad. I thought it was nighttime 24 hours a day Everyone was the strokes Yeah, and I'm like I'm gonna move there Or I thought it was Seinfeld where an ugly Jewish guy could get a really hot girl. And it turns out that that was kind of true. Yeah, in New York, for sure. Yeah, it's cheating. I think there's a lot more girls than there are to men in ratio. There's a lot of gay guys. Oh, is that what it is? I just thought there was more women to men. Yeah, yeah. No, there's a lot of gay guys, so the straight guys to the straight women ratio, I feel, I mean, it's incredible. It is a place where Costanza could go out with a Victoria's Secret model. I thought it was just because it was on TV. Do you know what the show Seinfeld is? Yeah. Okay. All right Have you seen movie before the movie sign a movie a movie? Yeah in my life I don't know you're cuz I was these thoughts were popping in my head while I was doing research I was like she may have not seen a movie before Yeah, I've seen a movie before okay. All right. We got that out of the way this guy I'm just no because like your interests are so it seems to me like when you get interested in something you go all the way in right like when you got into like pole dancing you went to like the best pole dancing teacher in the world that's a thing I didn't I didn't go to the best pole dancing teacher I go to people no I just go to people that care no like I mean for me like I go to people that care so it was important for me when I first started to learn pole dancing that I trained with another woman of color, that I trained with somebody that had their own studio, that had a passion for the movement. Well, in my opinion, she's the best in the world, okay? That's just one man's... Let's go there. There's a lot of amazing pole dancers, but I think for me I just wanted to go to a place where I could feel safe. And whenever I pick a teacher, it's because they have something, like they have a want to get to the root of the cause and a respect for the community as well around the... What kind of music did your parents show you when you were a kid? Oh my gosh, so much. Did you like it? I really did. At times I felt very embarrassed by it, but now I'm so grateful. Because there was a lot of acid jazz, jazz fusion, you know, non-verbal jazz. Like people singing scat over beats or... Uh-huh. You know... Like the Scat Man song? Like... Do you know that song? No, I don't. No, I don't know that. I'm the Scat Man. I was thinking more about like Tanya Maria. Oh, she's a scatter? Yeah, one of her, well a few of my records. Oh, Tina Marie. Tanya Maria. Oh, never mind. Did you ever, like having like Caribbean roots and like being mixed race, did you ever get into like, kind of like dub or reggae or like kind of second wave ska? Did you like the specials? I did, but much later. I love the specials. I love the special. I love the special. That was more in my twenties. Like for me more in my teens it was like discovering Bashman and Dancehall and, because I grew up in a place called Cheltenham which is very white, but then literally like 20 minutes away there's a place called Gloucester, which has not only got like an amazing black community but also a Jamaican community. Like Soundclash? You went to like Dublin reggae? No. Well there was a club there called the Jamaican Club and it was when Dancehall and Bashman was huge. going to that when I was 16. And like there were loads of rasters there, but it was like people that have like just come from Jamaica and have created a community there. And that's when I really discovered myself. And I had like a huge breakthrough actually, because I had a best friend at the time who was white and blonde and really pretty and super popular. And I would really want her to come with me to the Jamaican club. And I remember her saying to me that like, she didn't want to come. And I was like- How old were you guys? They were like 16, 17. But I'd always done stuff with her and all of my white friends in Cheltenham. You know, like whatever they wanted to do. They partied. Yeah, like go, I don't know, do stuff that my white friends wanted to do. Like go to a skate park or... Celebrate Easter. No, I mean, they like that. What do you mean? I'm sorry. No, I mean like talk about like getting a Tony and Guy haircut or get GHGs. Well, exactly. What is that? I don't know what these white people are up to. Nor do I. Yeah, yeah. No, like... Is that what they do? GHTs and Tony and Guy haircuts? I don't know. Get like GHTs and go to Tony and Guy and get like layers in their hair and talk about Rachel from Friends. Like, I don't know, but I was a teenager. Great haircut. Great haircut. No, like, I was like a teenager and I was just like, where do I find myself in this? And I remember naively, like, I started going to this Jamaican club in Gloucester and I remember trying to get my white friends from my private Catholic school to go to this club with me because I was like I'm always going to your stuff I was like can you come and I remember I one time I was just like why didn't you want to come with me I have no one to go with and the answer was like there was just too many black people there in that moment I realized you're different I was different yeah I realized I was different and I also tried to explain my friend I was like I am always with white people in Cheltenham hmm so how you feel when you go to Jamaican club that's kind of how I feel every single day but it was kind of just a bit you know like this I was like you know what I need to go and go to London and and just like expand my like knowledge of the world and meet more people and be in a more multi multicultural environment so I was like otherwise I'm just gonna die a slow death here like I'm just gonna get crushed yeah and also get exposed to your cult like because your cultural roots. Exactly. I imagine. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You were in a band, Delirium? Delirium Tremens. Oh nice, like the beer? Yeah. Yeah. What can I hear? Do you have any? No, this is like pre-internet. This is basically pre-internet. What was it, like Riot Girl? It was, well I was, it wasn't my band. It was kind of like my friend's band and I would be like the additional backing singer in the band. You were like the best I don't know the best but they got happy Mondays with the the with the tambourine no I was like the backing singer so I do like additional like screaming I guess really oh so you didn't play any instrument no no I would scream like to double his screaming I was a guy was making you scream yeah was it guy girl band or you were the only girl no I was the only girl but I was like an addition I wasn't like the main one you were weird but popular that's my new decision about you I wish she was she was cool I could tell by the way she's talking to me right now she was popular in high school I guess help why are you mad at me right now because I don't want these false narratives but I was like the runt of the popular girls group that's where I'd place myself but then outside like if I did dancing or when I'd come to London like that was super chill I'd say I wasn't popular or not popular I'd say that when I came to London and was doing dancing singing hanging out I'd say that like I was just like in the mix like having a good time what about so you became you moved to London became a dancer yes and you were like in videos and stuff you were coveted from what I understand yeah I had a good career as a backing dancer I had a solid I had a career I'm proud of as a backing dancer you dance for Sheeran I danced for Sheeran I don't show as a guy sweet when you were in dance though Did you like you wanted to be at the front of the dancers? Do you had an ambition there? It's not that I was at the front. It was just that like It's it's not that I wanted to be at the front It's that like I was very expressive, but I couldn't like fit into the group Because you were getting twice as much money When I heard that as we in my research for what? Well, you were the best dancer I wasn't getting twice twice as much money. No, I would be proud of that No, me too if that was the case. When you're a dancer you get like a flat rate usually. Are the girls cunts to each other? Is there a black swan kind of thing happening? I never experienced that. Because you were above all that drama? No, I just made good friends. Like some of my dance friends from when I was a black dancer I still know now. I actually hooked one of them up with my piano teacher and they just had a baby. Really? Yeah. Wow. Yeah, one of my oldest dance friends, I did a piano lesson in lockdown and I met this guy and I was like, you have exactly the same personality, like, humor as my old backing dancer friend. And then I put them in a group text and I was like, you guys should know each other. The worst that can happen is that you'll be friends. And they just had a baby. How does it feel? Well, my friend sent me a message and said... It's a little bit your baby too. I don't need more responsibilities, but... You don't need the responsibility, but it's your baby, but you don't have to do anything. It's the best case scenario. Yeah, I guess so. But she sent me a message and she was like, hi, I'm new in the world and I feel like you've got something to do with me being here. I just wanted to meet you. I know. Maybe you want to cry. I know. It was really cute. It's so beautiful. Yeah, it was really sweet. You should take responsibility for that baby. I don't need to take like... You've got to be the man who showed up. Yeah, I think it's just nice. So you were also like you were you supporting yourself at the time you're a young person living in the big city Yeah, well, I Had a lot of jobs. So from when I left home, I literally would have like four jobs. I was crazy Like I was just like run around I was a dancer. I was a youth worker I worked in Selfridges and I worked in a bar and I would take any job like I literally remember having this rucksack And it had almost like the different costumes for my different jobs and any shifts that came up I would like run around run around and then when I got to I can't remember actually maybe it was like 22 23 or 24 I can't remember what age early 20s I said to my stepdad who I'd reconnected with that I was doing all this stuff and I really wanted to make music and I said can I quit two of my jobs for six months I said I'll keep two I'll quit two yeah and will you help me with my rent in London, and then he was like yeah because I didn't go to university and I was like very independent from when I was a teenager, I'd always make my own money. So he was like I'll support you with your rent for six months so you can quit two of the jobs and then with that time you can go in the studio. And then and then I said if in six months I don't get signed or anything then I'll just go and get a normal job. And he supported me for six months and almost like at the end of that time I then got a record deal. transitioning to like music like in the way I've read you describe your process like it sounds like you're almost like a movie director looking not to her right like there's a visual aspect of a song there's a dance aspect of a song there's the actual song you know there's like it there's multiple aspects of the asset have you started a song on a vision like seeing a visual of something or do you start with the chords like um That was a decent question Yeah, it was a really good question I think I start with the music But if the song speaks to me visually Then I want to finish it So if I get a vision of what the dance could be Or how it would be live Or a visual Or an image that's a storytelling piece To go with the song Then they're usually Well, they're always the ones that make the record Or end up coming out It's almost like you're making a theatre piece sometimes, to some extent, right? Yeah, it's like 360, but I think that's kind of the, that's sort of the thing I'm coming up against now, because obviously I've been doing it for a while, I just am trying to figure out what type of artist I am, and I think I'm realising that the music industry, although I'm very much a part of it, and music is the core of everything I do, I just don't feel that it's able to facilitate like everything really that I want to do. So I'm kind of in, not like a transitional phase out of it at all because I always want to make music and put out albums and that will always be the number one thing at the basis of who I am. But I think I don't think that the way that it works right now is conducive for me making my best work. I kind of picked up on that also because like you, I guess in 2014, is that right? Like when you kind of had a breakthrough, is that right? So that's like a decade in an industry that seems as if it's changed a lot. Yeah. What's happened is like in 2014 you broke through, like Twitter was new basically. Yeah. Was Stan culture a thing at that point? I mean probably, but I don't think as an artist you were fully aware of it existed in letters that you might come across if somebody happened to give it to you or you recognize the same people at shows that, you know, gave that energy. Has it become kind of a necessity of an industry at this point? Like to have a, you know, there's a distance between artists and the consumer and then the internet has blurred that. So, like, I guess like a Swifty is like kind of an aspect of Taylor Swift LLC, you know, like it's become sort of an amorphous blob. and it feels like that has accelerated maybe in the last 10 years. Is that your experience? It's an unbelievable experience to be a part of. Have your guys acted embarrassing ever? Have they gotten pissed at other people? What are they called? Twiglets. Twiglets is cute. I think on the whole, people that listen to my music are quite sensitive and artistic and creative, and I would like to think that they are sort of equally invested in their own creative endeavours and their own lives as they are in my music, which hopefully creates some safety and a healthy relationship. I think I've definitely experienced, since Eusexua has come out, a different side of fandom and what that could feel like. For me as an artist, it's my job to create something and to create it for myself and for other people eventually, but to not really care about what people think. But now, as an artist, we're just expected to market ourselves so much. And for me, that's one thing I really struggle with because the truth is nobody knows my true personality because I feel like my personality is constantly at gunpoint with social media. That's just not really who I am, and I've never really been able to find a way of portraying who I am. because truly who I am is not on doing that. Truly who I am is just in a studio practicing something and getting better at something and feeling happy about that and me monitoring my own incremental advancements in a craft. And I can't do that if I have to put it on the internet. So all that's left is for me to try and put my personality on the internet and try and be like cutesy boo-boo and try and be relatable. And for me personally, I've been on a five-year-long journey. I think it was really probably like after Magdalene where this word, like relatable, started to come up. Like with publicists, you know. I had this like publicist a few years ago. She was great. She was northern. And she was like, do you know what, Twigs? You're so funny. We just need to warm you up a little bit. You know, you're so funny. If people could just see how funny you were. And I was like, okay. I was like, yeah, I can be funny. You know, but it's like this thing at gunpoint. So annoying. And it's just not who I am. And I've seen other people really overcome it. I've seen other artists, other contemporaries of mine, who initially found this thing really awkward and spoke about it, and now are absolutely crushing it and they've found their niche. But with me, I just can't seem to find that, because I don't want to put the things I'm practising at online. I just don't want to. Like it's for me and I want to get better at it in the choir and I want to deliver something when it's a fully rounded thought. And so to be completely honest with you, like it's kind of a bit of a nightmare to be making work that I really care about. And then there's this whole other side, which is like, for me, it's like McDonald's and it just destroys all of the mystery. Like it just takes everything, everything precious and everything sacred away. And I look at like you know other artists and I think wow they so good at it They so good at making something feel casual like putting like a phone up and just doing something funny and I don know how many drafts of that are in their folder. But there's someone looking at that and literally going insane. Do you understand? Well the other side of it. I want to counter that by saying that I found that very deliberate decision to be admirable Because A, you create a distinction between your own life and between your career, right? And I think that it just seems like you think of your work in a different way where it's thought out and it requires effort in a way that it doesn't feel like a lot of artists have to grapple with, right? No, I think a lot of artists now are making incredible work and really thinking about it. I don't want to put myself on a pedestal like that. The difference is... I am. That's very sweet but I think that it's the ability to be able to connect with your fans and do this like cutesy boo-boo like effortless thing that I'm just not good at. Like I'm the type of person, I just want to disappear, I just want to put out something and then not think about it and not have to promote it. And the thing that I find is you can't quantify culture. You can't quantify the data around culture, you can't quantify the amount of people that are inspired by your work, who create work based off your work, how when you make something, it changes the cultural DNA. Even if 10 people see a piece of work that's incredible, it might change the cultural DNA of the way that people see, I don't know, queer people, black people, political ideas, women, you know, like, you can't put stats behind that. And so to be able to say, oh this is what success looks like because it's Spotify listeners or awards or likes on Instagram you know or likes on TikTok to be able to quantify the success of an artist by these things to me it's just not like it's not valid to be honest with you it's a mature response to a ridiculous thing because if you think about the like I've been told by my people I'm listen I'm also one the biggest whatever pops pop uh in america i don't know if you've heard but but like yeah like post pictures of yourself like hanging out and i'm like who the fuck wants to see that but what you're doing is you're like some guys look at his phone and he feels like there's an unhealthy parasocial kind of relationship that he has with me who's a complete stranger so like um i did a podcast for a long time and it felt like it was a kind of a friendship simulator for a lot of people and like they'll come up to you and they'll feel they'll make a joke at you and you'll be like what the fuck are you talking about? And they'll walk away and they'll be like idiot, I'm fucking stupid, I'm stupid, you know? But like in reality like doing this show where I'm like talking to different people and stuff, it does feel like I can more easily create that distinction where I'm like this is the work that I'm doing and then in my normal life like no one respects me. I'm not actually one of the... I mean, I love communicating with my fans, and I love the back and forth of my fans. I hate them. My fans... I mean, whatever. The Twiglets and the people that have enjoyed my music through Eusexua have directly affected, created, and encouraged me to make Afterglow. Afterglow is 100% a conversation between me and the people that liked Eusexua. Really? A hundred percent. What do they say to you? It's like a feeling. It's like seeing the way that people move on stage to the songs. It's about seeing the parts of the songs that they love. It's about seeing the looks on their faces when I talk about certain things in my lyrics and me thinking, that felt good. Like, if I did something just 10% in that song, I want to take the 10% of that song and blow it up so it's 100% of another song. Because that's the bit that's connected with people. Making someone dance is supposed to feel incredible. It's the best feeling in the world. But that's what I'm saying. like that type of interaction with my fans and my audience is the best feeling in the world. The part that I personally struggle with is shoving myself, like Talia, down people's throats. Do you think that you would have made more money or something if you were like, you know, am I... No, it's not about money, it's about a career of longevity. Like it's not, it's not like you could make millions of pounds one year and then no one will speak about you the next Like for me, I just, I'm really looking forward to getting old. 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I went through something and then I wrote the song Sell of Fame with a couple of wonderful collaborators. And then that has spelt out the words from many people that have gone through a breakup. And that's the type of fan interaction that I really love. And that's the type of fan interaction that spurs me to make another version of that song or to explore that feeling further the same way that I was saying when I performed You Sexual Alive. It encouraged me to make Afterglow. I was very inspired by the reaction to make Afterglow, and I was also very inspired on Afterglow to produce so much more myself and play so many more instruments myself. And because Eusexua, for me, was such a well-rounded piece of work that I was so proud of that I created, in Afterglow I wanted to, I don't know, deconstruct everything that I'd learned. Like deconstruct the beats, play more instruments, use my voice in a different way. Subvert the clarity of Eusexua into a hazy, gauzy, muffled, kind of wavy after party of afterglow But that wouldn't have happened if the fans hadn't have given me permission and authority also to do It was really a collaboration You gave them joy, right? Yeah, and it was a conversation And also, I think it sounds like you do know what kind of artist you are No, no, I do, but it's the goalposts keep on changing of what you have to do to be an artist. You don't have to post your breakfast. Just go make tracks, dude. A hundred percent. My point is every time you do an album, the goalposts of what you have to do change. So, for example, this era, videoed podcasts, really important. This era, doing TikToks with other influences, really important. When I first started... It's terrible for the world. No, but when I first started, you would do like a Fader interview and a Pitchfork interview on a phoner. When I first started making music, you would go to your record label, you'd sit there for two days, you'd do phoners with Pitchfork, The Guardian, Fader, a couple of others, and that would kind of be it. There's no music press kind of anymore, is that what you're saying? There is, but I think the thing... No one reads. Oh, this is messy. the thing that's kind of bigger is um is displaying is like being likable and being relatable and for me that's equally as important as the music and honestly you that's so sweet you're not no i mean i think you're like a serious i i think going like uh you know i never like studied your process your career and i kind of want to go back to it like um but like you it seems like you have a there's something in your head that you're seeing right is it difficult like to seed uh uh to delegate if like let's say like if you have a collaborator that doesn't see the thing that you're seeing um i mean i have an interesting way of working with collaborators that are like really talented but can't see it is i i just want them to do them and then i'll kind of edit it later yeah so i just want people to like go the farthest they can possibly go with within their vision and then I like to take it and sort of edit it down for how it fits my vision. You just want people to have fun, you see? Yeah, 100%. Is it really fun in the studio to make songs? It's really fun, yeah. I should start a little bit? You should start, yeah. I have a couple. But it's not your kind of music. It's more like acoustic singer, songwriter kind of. That's cute. I like that too. It's really serious actually. I wouldn't say cute. Okay. I mean it's very constant. No, I'm just kidding. I am. Have you heard of Bob Dylan before? Yeah. Nice. You ever met Bob Dylan? Can I go through your phone? The contacts? Yeah, who you got in there? Like what? Do you have Drake in there? Probably an old number. He's my favourite guy. I don't know my phone name. He's the best guy. It would have been quite funny honestly. It would have been funny, yeah. Is Future the best guy? He's very professional in the studio. He a genius He very professional yeah Yeah yeah yeah He really delivers on what he he says he gonna do Do you think he do a feature for the Adam Freelance show I mean honestly. What's wrong with me? Maybe. I can ask him. Really? Mm-hmm. Do you think he'd like me? I feel like we're kind of a very similar guy. Except I don't do Infidelity, yeah. I think you just need to, like if you ask a question, let people finish it. And so that... I'm just excited. Now I know it's really cute, it's just hard to concentrate. It's just annoying. You're not annoying, it's endearing. There's an excitement about me. Yeah, it's like a puppy, it's cute. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, IQ wise especially. I think you're smart. Yeah, yeah. Like an adult dog. No, like, I don't know, your brain just moves quickly. I'll let you finish my future, tell me more about future. Um, what do you want me to tell you? I, I, I, I, you, apparently you had something to say. Are we fighting? Alright. When you entered the industry, were there other more established artists that kind of took you under their wing? Not really. You don't have OGs? No. Is it kind of a lone wolf game? Yeah, it's a lone wolf game. You don't have a squad of other musicians? Not production people, but other artists? Not really I've always been quite a lone wolf I'm really trying to think Because I don't want to exclude anyone's Elton John never hit you up It was like I love seeing you do your thing No I don't think Well actually Do you know what I do But kind of Through someone else So my Personal trainer Is married to Jazzy B from Soul to Soul And I'm not like really close with Jazzy B It's not like we hang out But through I've always had a lot of comfort just finding out things about the music industry that I didn't necessarily know so I'll be on the running machine I'll just be talking about something and she'll give me an example about like Jazzy's career and and then I can gossip with your trainer it's not gossip it's more just kind of her looking out for me like she calls me like one of the youngest who are your goats like who have you have you met a goat before prince did you ever Like completely Like brick In front of a goat Did you ever Like fuck it It's so I imagine it would be So nerve wracking Janet maybe Have you met her Yeah And you did well I think I complimented Her too much And then I made her shy Really Yeah well she's very gracious Like her personality Is very gentle and gracious And I was just like I love you so much You're amazing You've changed my whole life I wouldn't be here And I think it was just a lot But I meant it So that's okay Her bro changed my life Yeah He's the best of all time Mmhmm Can you imagine Isn't it amazing we shared a planet with Michael? Yeah. I miss him so much. Where were you when you found out Michael passed away? I remember where I was when Aaliyah passed away. Where were you? I was in Pineapple Dance Studios in the clothes shop. Is that your life? You dance every day? Mm-hmm. I try to. You maintain a practice every day? I mean, not every day because obviously I'm working so much, but I always try and move my body. Same. Yeah. Go to work. Do a celebrity interview Major pop star Trying to figure out if she's mad at me or not I'm not mad You're pissed at me I'm literally not So tell me about Tell me about Eusexua Like what got you interested in singing about sex I'm sorry That was a bad question Who wrote this? Eusexua isn't about sex It's an 11 pillar Kind of like wellness Eusexua is a feeling that I discovered that I want to be in more and I wanted to share that feeling with other people. Has it caught on? Do you feel like people are using you sexually? I think that the idea that we can be our best selves has caught on. I feel that in my shows. I feel like there's an idea that you can kind of overcome everything in your life and be in a feeling of beautiful nothingness, acceptance of yourself, presence in the moment, no ego, no one just kind of pure human experience. I think that that idea has caught on, yeah. I did an immature sex thing at the beginning but what's interesting to me is like from your early jobs is like working in burlesque and as a hostess at a strip club, in seeing you perform and like it there's kind of a seductive aspect like you kind of like are a seductress of an audience. Really? There's kind of a kind of a relationship of like a woman on stage Or even doing pole dancing or something. I feel like pole dancing for me is like reclaiming experiences that I went through as a young woman and empowering myself to be in charge of my sensuality on stage. And I say sensuality instead of sexuality because, you know, as a young girl, like we go through so many horrific things, finding our womanhood. Yeah. What am I doing? And so for me starting to pole dance at a time when I'd had like a very big operation, I had fibroids and so I had to go through a lot of hospital appointments and doctors and operations to fix my fibroids and they're basically like benign tumours in the uterus. Yeah, so it's like very invasive and it hit me at a time in my late 20s where I was very in charge of my sexuality and and I had just had a huge surge in my career and I was dating someone very famous and it was it was very much like who's that girl energy and I was about to almost like step into my grace and step into my light and step into my power as a star and I had to completely step back and choose myself yeah um and choosing myself at that point was about breaking down my sexuality and finding strength in it and a power in it, which I don't think I had found before in my 20s, because I don't think society encourages women to find their power in their sexuality, because it's deemed as something that's controversial or dangerous or dirty or, you know, all of these things. So, yeah, it forced me to to take a step back, and so then I started martial arts with a sword, I saw that, that was scary. And I started pole dancing as a way for me to connect with my body. So for me when I pole dance, it's not really for anyone else. You're also a dancer too. It's for myself. It's a different kind of dancing, right? It's very different because it's in the air and it takes like a lot of, sorry, it takes like a lot of internal strength and a lot of slow strength and it's not, it's big powerful moves but you have to be very present because otherwise you'll fall off the pole and hurt yourself. beautiful dance between the mind, safety and your body. You're from the Midlands, right? Yeah. You're from a working class kind of background. But your work seems very high brow. Do you worry that it could potentially make you inaccessible to like, you know? But I think this is what I mean. Or is that a... No. But it just might not hit straight away. To say, for example, Magdalene was a beautiful, baroque, operatic, real-world, real instrumental expression of womanhood and pain. And I'm so proud of that project. And when it first came out, although it was very critically acclaimed, the masses didn't understand at all. And now, five years later, you know, that feels so much more plausible that an artist can sing opera on a pop song or create something. What's her name? Yeah, exactly, Rosalia. I mean, it's so much more plausible that that can be a pop song, you know, or it's so much. You created it. No, it's not. No, no, no, no. I don't think that at all. No, I don't think that at all. I just think that sometimes I make the suggestion very early, and it allows culture to kind of breathe and make something so beautiful from that, like, naive starting point, you know? And I think that in my career I've been lucky enough to be a part of or start a conversation early. So, I don't know, I'm trying to think of other examples, even including... You mean like you're making challenging work because you want to elevate the work? I think I'm not trying to do anything. I think that I am totally okay with making work and it like seeding into culture and it taking its sweet time because I'm so blessed to have a career now. I mean I'm 28 in a month or two and I've been doing this since I was probably like 22 or 23 and I'm so blessed to still be here and I'm so blessed to still be making music and what a What a blessing to be almost 40 and nominated for my first Grammy that's centered around music. Or to have, you know, to be number one, for U-Sexual to go to, like, sorry, number three in the UK charts. Or to win incredible awards at this point in my career. And I think it's just because I've taken my time. And I think it's because my roots go, like, deep and wide. And that takes time. yeah what I see and maybe this is a stretch is that coming from like a working-class background what's clear is like you're very can you you work hard yeah you know you had four jobs before you went into music you've released consistently for over a decade on the probably a two-year album cycle like a consistent amount of work like do you ever not work do you chill like yeah you don't chill not really I mean when I was very young my stepdad sat me down and he was like because of the way you look like you're gonna have to like work very hard because I wanted to be a ballet dancer which for me as oh yeah yeah stop interrupting wait I thought it's my fault it's bad example she's so cute ballet dancer ballet dancer there weren't really many ballet dancers that were like black or brown or of color um and so he said to me that if i wanted to do it i had to work 10 times harder than everybody else and um and that instilled a work ethic into you yeah yeah i have to work 10 times harder or any i think like brown or black artist has to work 10 times harder because we just can't get away with being average. We have to be amazing. We have to sing really well. We have to look incredible. We have to dance really well. We have to be polite all the time. We have to be on our P's and Q's 24-7 because we're just not given the grace that other people that look differently are. And you do one thing wrong and it's like, wrong, knew it. It's like this energy of like, knew it, 100%. Knew she was a wrong one. So I think that I've always lived my life a bit by that. but I'm really not complaining. It's, um, I think I just get on with it. Do you think that the music sucks now? Izzy, chill the fuck out. No. She's so cute. She's the best. You know what song she likes the best? Tell me. I don't know. What is it? She likes smelling pee so much. It's her favorite thing. Hi, sweetie. Honestly, do you like bands? Yeah. Really? Yeah, for sure. Which one? Like, Cocteau Twins. Sick. Yeah. Sade's a band. You're in front of the one. Five minutes left. I know, I know. I got a text. Do you have Adele's number? No. She's incredible. She's amazing. Yeah. She doesn't have to show her breakfast sandwich to everyone on Instagram? Yeah, but she's in a different... So are you, bro. Come on. Don't feel pressured to make your fans insane And then they go to war with Indonesia or something Or whatever the hell is going on on the internet these days I don't feel pressure Although maybe now that I realize we command an army We can do anything with these people The Twigletts Twigletts I thought that was a good point It is a good point Honestly it says applause break here under Have you ever dated a guy that's ugly? Sure Really? Yeah Poor and ugly? Sure What's your favorite song ever? My favorite song? Ever I don't really know I couldn't say that Come on We've only got really one question left That was it What's your favorite one? Can we have another last question? Okay Did Brexit have an effect on your career? Was it harder to get like French instruments? Okay Another question Come on Do you fuck with Bob Dylan? Have you seen movies? What What the hell even is sex? That wasn't good. Okay. Make it work about sex in an era where people have less sex. Do you... Does it... Say that again? So people have less sex, right? So if there are themes in your music about sex, is it business-wise, they're like... You know what I mean? No, another question. Come on, please. I'm really down to the wire now. Your God Like Genius Award does that... Not that one. Since 2022. You live in fear that someone else will get it. Will you have to go back to being regular? Have you ever wanted to dress like crap? Got that one out of the way. Come on. Now we're going over. Oh. Is there a difference between sex? Why are you asking lots of questions about sex? Because you sexual. I don't know. That sounds like the word sex. You sexual is not about sex. It just has those letters in it. Oh, that's. So how would I get that out of that? Confusing, huh? Okay, here's a good one. Okay. I got a good one. Okay. When you finish something, right? Like, here's my experience making anything, right? You get a good idea, you get really excited, right? And then you try to do it, and you're like, I suck, right? And then you fight through that middle stage, and you put something together, but if you look, you have to start the next thing, right? You cannot think about it because it'll drive you nuts. and if you look back on something you've made previously, you're like, I would change this, this, and this, this. Like, have you ever, what is perfect to you? Right? Yeah, that's a good question. High five. Is that a good question? Yeah, that's so good. Oh, you said, ugh, like it was like. That's like a low five. I like the wrist you did at the end of it. Do this, do this, do this. Yeah, like sniffing. I don't know. That was disgusting. One more. Okay. I think we did enough. What is perfection? Like, have you finished the song and been like, this is, this is, this is like- I'm gonna have to sit on the floor. I'm just so exhausted. I don't know, my dog's here. I'm so exhausted. I just have a bad personality. No, you don't at all. Did you want to go in front of the dancers? Did your, did your music suck at first? How long did it take you to make something you thought, to thought it'd suck? When did you start dressing crazy? That's a good question. Are these all actual questions? Yeah. Brian Jones is born in your town It's okay, we don't have to ask any more questions We can just end it here You want to just chill? We can hang out What kind of music did your parents show you? Were you a silent girl that drew horses? Were the less dancers or strip club hosts When you first get hired? Backup dancers, Ed Sheeran, chill It's okay, we don't have to ask another person Was there a black swan type drama? You got paid twice as much? Is that faxed? You have the ID cover and Fader. We talked about that. You have ambition. Did you want to be famous? Was it difficult? I'm just going to read you all the questions. If you hear one good one. Oh. We don't have the Austin thing. I got a good question. Since you've gotten famous, has anyone offered you drugs? Twigs, everyone! Icy, what are you doing? You're... Icy. Icy and Icy and Icy. Thank you.