NBA Trade Deadline Reactions and Super Bowl Picks With Zach Lowe and Joe House

Thank you. Live on Netflix, the Bill Simmons podcast, Zach Lowe is here. Trade deadline. I can't believe Giannis got traded. Oh, no, it was Cole Anthony. Easy, easy. Don't fool people. This is Netflix. We got to behave. It was Cole Anthony. Did you think, at what point this week did you think Giannis was actually getting traded? Was there ever a point? It was always 50-50 at best. every team that was in it, maybe save for just one, was constantly saying, you know, we're kind of skeptical they're really going to move them. We'll put it at 80-20, 75-25 that they keep them, and this carries into the summer. I took 80-20, and I unilaterally went to 50-50 because the toothpaste is just so far out of the tube that I thought, you know, maybe they'll just surrender to the inevitability of it and get an offer that's good enough. But it looks like with an hour to go and all the reporting that we'll revisit all this in June. So I was never super confident. I was more on high alert than most executives that were in it, I think. So I want to do a segment right now before we get into some of the trades that happen. I have no idea what the hell you're doing rankings. So it couldn't be more exciting for you. Just go right to the confusing teams. Yeah, because the trade deadline is an hour away. there might be some stuff that happens at noon. The I have no idea what you're doing rankings. Okay. I have Giannis number one. Giannis, what are you doing? Get out of Dodge. You haven't had a meaningful playoff moment since 2022. Game seven against the Celtics when Grant Williams shot your heart out. 2022. How old was your daughter in May 2022? Seven. 2022. what are you doing Giannis you just you took an entire Olympic cycle of playoffs that you've wasted and you could have changed it this year and all you had to do was say I demand a trade I've run my course I'm out please trade me I'd like to go here's my list of teams I want to be traded by whatever today's date is and he kind of half-assed passive-aggressive did and I think he's in a worse spot now. He just lost another postseason. He could have been back in time for April. He could have been back in time with a really good team. And I think he had enough leverage with them that he could have bullied them, I think, a little bit. And I just feel like we're reenacting KG. The difference is KG in the mid-2000s, the best that had ever happened to him was the Western Finals, right? And that was like the one really fun KG moment. Giannis won the title. But that's yet another reason he should have pushed out. He gave them the title. Now it's time to go and you just wasted another postseason or does that decrease your personal urgency because you've achieved your goal your family loves milwaukee he's spoken quite openly about how leaving would be hard he's put down roots he lives right next door to his mom etc etc does that decrease his urgency to really hit the nuclear but i mean he did i don't remember exactly what the sham strania language was but it's has been telling the bucks for months that it's time to part ways i mean to me that's the same thing as asking for a trade but yeah every time he would speak publicly he would kind of speak out of both sides of his mouth and leave the door open to hey maybe i would want to stay here if the team can contend and you know like show me that there's an urgency to do it but i do think you raised two questions number one i do think now the does he play the rest of the season becomes a very spicy little subplot for a bucks team that has all the incentive to tank they get the worst of their own pick and the pelicans pick and they could really use a high draft pick both to rebuild and to take a last-ditch effort to Giannis, either via trading that asset or saying, hey, look, here's a bridge to the future of the East still stinks, etc. And I do want to say, I think you're... Good luck with that strategy. Anyway, go ahead. Okay, but I do think you're right in these, what is it? I don't, what the hell are you doing rankings? Yeah. I do think it's right to put Giannis above the Bucs. There's a lot of frustration around the league with the Bucs today like oh they were never really serious they wasted our time they were never super clear with what they wanted or as clear as one of them to be they're under no obligation to do what the other teams want them to do they're under the obligation to get the best deal for Giannis that they can and if they think kicking it to the summer is at at worst net neutral for the packages they're going to get and there's a four percent chance that they can convince him to resign, then they should do that. And they're under no obligation to do anything else. So I agree with you that Giannis should be above his team in these rankings that you're making up. I think 20 years from now, he's really going to regret it because he's going to get traded anyway. Was he going to stay here? What is he staying for? If you were doing the two through 15 rankings of all these rosters, they're in the running to have the worst roster. What's interesting is there are only two back from the nine seed and the 10 seed, right? Atlanta and Chicago have 27 losses. Milwaukee is 29. I can't wait to talk about both of those teams too. But you could make the case if Giannis came back in two to three weeks and Milwaukee could at least not drown, they could try to tread water without drowning, that maybe he could be a 10 seed. But even if that happens, what's he going to do? Win four straight playoff rounds with Miles Turner and Ryan Rollins? That's not happening. They had to trade him, and yet they didn't have to trade him because it made more sense for them as a franchise to wait till this summer when more teams can be in it. There's more cap space. There's more options. It didn't make more sense for him to wait. I just don't get it. He should have talked. If I were him, I would have talked to a bunch of older retired stars that were in fairly similar situations to this, including KG. I would have called KG and be like, hey, KG, you have to do that over again. Would you have waited until the summer of 2007 to really kind of open the door for a trade? or would you have done that a year or two sooner? Guess what KG would have said? I would have done that as soon as I knew I had no future with that team. And you're being loyal to like, who's he being loyal to? One of the owners already sold. Jimmy Haslam wasn't there when they won the title. I know he's loyal to the fans, but they're going to love him forever anyway. So if I'm a Milwaukee fan, I think this worked out great. It's like, this is awesome. We're probably going to get a top 10 pick. We get to trade him this summer when we have way more chances to get stuff and he didn't push his way out. So in a weird way, it's a win for them, right? And there's some chance that you strike gold in the draft. Giannis is only 31. He obviously has these recurring cap issues that are worrisome. But when he's been healthy, he's having arguably the best, not arguably, the best offensive season of his entire career. He's the third best player in the NBA. I don't even think it's disputable right now. And, you know, there's some chance you move some pieces around. You make a crazy trade. You can talk yourself into, could we be the fifth seed, the fourth seed, and just have an honest, good team? It's possible, but I agree. Bucs fans, winners. Bucs, I don't think the packages are going to get worse, despite the fact that Giannis will be now on an expiring deal and theoretically have more leverage to direct where he wants to go. I think his list will be broad enough, and the suitors will be broad enough, that the packages won't get worse. So I think the Bucs are kind of semi-winners here, too. The ringer. Loser. I thought we had a chance At Doc Rivers to come back I thought this was all leading to the Giannis Rebuild and then Doc being like Okay thanks everybody That's not happening Well just don't spend the salary slot That's all I'll say Just keep the slot open Keep the mid-level open One thing with Giannis I don't feel like Teams were I think teams were knocking on the door Nobody was using that thing they used in the cop movies The battering rambler The battering ram. Nobody was using that and trying to go through the door. And we had multiple teams that have a chance to win the title who just didn't seem interested. San Antonio, OKC, Denver couldn't have figured it out. Cleveland, I think they're good with Mobley. And I think there's two things going on with that. One is the age and stuff we've talked about on previous podcasts here about tall guys with some injury history as they get older and move into their mid-30s. And you watch what's happening in Davis. That's bad. I also think there's some questions about you have some guy who has been on the same team in the same city for his entire career where he's a massive star where he's had incredible sway in the organization moving to a different organization probably not as the biggest star maybe he's star 1B maybe he's star 1A to somebody else's 1B but he'd have to fit into wherever he's going and I do think teams were a tiny bit worried about that it's not like a diss on Giannis It's just like this guy's a megastar and he comes in. And if you're a team like San Antonio, it's weirdly a little more risky than you would think it would be on paper. Just like now we're adding this person when you don't really need to. When you're San Antonio, your window is really going to be two, three years from now. So I don't know. What have you heard about that, about teams being like, huh, this is like a pretty big ad? I mean, I don't think San Antonio was ever really in it in season enough for that to become a talking point. I guess the same for the Rockets, whose team he would have been his team anyway. He would have been the best player on the team. Cleveland, I guess, you know, Donovan Mitchell is there. I mean, Giannis is better than Donovan Mitchell, but it's been Donovan Mitchell's team. I think that's just more about Mobley and the value they hold on Mobley and his age. The one team that you would zero in on for this theoretically is Minnesota with Ant, who probably sees himself as the best player in the league. Kudos to him. He's unbelievable. stopped seven eight at worst um but i don't i get the sense that minnesota was all in to try to do this i don't think they were concerned about it and to mention your battering ram thing it is interesting how quiet it's been on a couple of fronts like minnesota was going to have to move around players to get first round picks to get yannis it was going to be mcdaniels plus a bunch of picks and it's interesting how it never came out that like oh they tried to get randall here or go bear there or wherever they're like they successfully kept that quiet i probably some of that stuff was happening and there was never even a peep i didn't hear really a peep about like miami is shopping wiggins to get an extra first round pick or miami's trying to change the protections on the terry rozier pick to get an extra first round pick that that may have been going on i did not hear that it's that is interesting because that's the battering ram from miami is we we offer you everything and we get another thing because we can only offer two firsts now versus four in the summer. I didn't hear much of that. I just never bought Miami or Golden State if Giannis wasn't saying you were trading me by Thursday. I just never, never believed in it. There's one thing I want to talk about with this, but the Bill Simmons podcast brought to you by FanDuel. Forgot to mention this. Last call for football on FanDuel. One final Sunday, one last kickoff. Final chance to place your bets before the NFL season closes. It's tab because after the Super Bowl, the season's over and basketball season kicks in. But football is officially done. Last call for football and fan to an official sports book partner of Super Bowl 60. 21-plus and present in select states or 18-plus and present in D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Game problem, call 1-800-Gambler or visit rg-help.com. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. After Zach and I do the trade deadline stuff, Joe House is going to come in. We're going to make a Super Bowl pick. Talk about that really quickly. Philly was the team I was thinking about for Giannis. knowing 20 years of Daryl and how much he loves putting three stars together at all costs. That's been one of his strategies. And he loves nothing more than, oh, I can get a top five guy. I'm going to figure out how to do this. And I wonder, like, Edgecombe would have had to have been in the deal. And if you and I were the conciliaries for Daryl talking about, should you do this? Should you not do this? I'm not trading everything for Giannis unless I feel like I'm guaranteed a really good chance at winning the title in the next two, three years. They have so much Embiid uncertainty, not knowing either way, right? It's like it's a bonus if he's doing great. I also don't trust that he might not be on the injured list again. And I just don't think there's enough certainty with it. I don't know if they had to put Edgecombe in it, all their picks, and now it's just Giannis, Embiid, and Maxi. On paper, awesome. But if I don't have Embiid, I'm not beating OKC and I'm not beating Denver. So I bet they probably went down the road, but ultimately, too risky because of Embiid. Well, OK, so first of all, Paul George probably has to go out in that deal for salary purposes, and he just got suspended for 25 games. And his contract is something close to an albatross that our teams take on. Second of all, to me, the ship has long sailed that every decision that Philadelphia 76ers make, every big team building decision should be on maxi's timetable and not mb's timetable now you could argue janice at 31 is so good that he fits every timetable but i don't know that it's worth edgecomb costing edgecomb removing that part of the maxi timetable and number three we have breaking news bill what is it the los angeles clippers are trading center evita zubats to the Indiana Pacers. Oh, wow. This is long rumored. Price TBD. We're still getting a reporting coming in. Zubats is on a great contract. This is the Pacers getting their center for next season. They get Halliburton back. They get a top whatever pick. They are loading up to try to recreate the finals run with a guy who, not the shooter Miles Turner is, but a better, I think, all-around player than Miles Turner. Really interesting trade. And look, man, Clippers, 44 minutes. They're clearly just done for the year. They don't care about the pick. They owe the Thunder. I think that's the appropriate stance. It's like that's six years ago. We can't be hamstrung by the embarrassment of potentially giving the Thunder a lottery pick. And we just got to make the best deal for us. We just got to see what they got in this deal. But Zubats is really, really good. and look out for the Pacers, man. They're sort of sight unseen, out of sight, out of mind. The one thing is their young guys have not really developed the way you would want, but they've had so many injuries. Got to figure out what to do with Matherin. This is a huge get and a reminder, a very important reminder to the Cavs, the Knicks, the Pistons, your Boston Celtics. Well, not so much for them, I don't think, because they have Tatum. The East is going to be a different animal next year. Like there's one junk, one powerhouse that's been absent the whole year and they're already loading up for next year. Our producer is devastated. Diehard Clipper fan. I really likes you. I don't understand the point of trading him when he's on a good contract. I don't really get that at all. Unless there's no way they would get the Pacers like top three protected 2026 pick. Right. I would be like that. I would be pretty shocked given the quality of this draft and the once in a blue moon opportunity you get to have a pick like this when you're a legitimately good team and has have this built-in gap year how high will you we neither of us know the draft that well yet but that there's three guys plus i think wilson and north carolina would be my fourth so if you did top five protected for this year and then unprotected in 27 plus a second pick at 29 i don't know but it's got to be something like that to get me to trade two bucks i'll tell you this zach low when he got scratched yesterday for personal reasons, which has become the new, uh-oh, what's going on here? I started getting real Celtic ideas. Didn't I read something that he had, like someone was having a kid? I thought I saw something about parental. Listen, when I see parentheses personal, I'm ready for a trade. James Harden had some personal reasons this week. Well, I thought with the Celtics, because they downgraded from Simons to Vucevic from a salary standpoint, and they've been trying to trade Simons for Zubats with a pick for a while and the Clippers didn't want to take out the money. But Vucevic for Zubats actually works under the cap and made more sense. And I was wondering, I know they've liked him. First of all, I just want to note that as the spouse of a Balkan, you just nailed both Zubats and Vucevic, which for you is we've made progress. And I want to applaud you for the progress and the learning that you've done. The price still has not come in yet. I'm just refreshing Twitter which is hard to do with this all in real time but You know Zach I'm glad you shouted me out there because obviously everybody knows about my pronunciation dyslexia and I've butchered names from time to time all over the place but the Croatians and the Serbians I've worked hard and really what you have to remember all the time is just put the itch in the end it's not an itch it's an itch that's why when they Americanize like Greg Popovich they all add H's at the end of their names to make that clear to the dumb Americans among us that this is how you say our names. Anyway, Zubats is a pacer. Wait, can we talk about the pacer thing quick about Zubats, Siakam, Halliburton, Nembhard, 2026 Lottery, Bic, DBD, McConnell. That's like, send me the Eastern odds now for 27. That could be a nice team. Well, we're forgetting like Obi Toppens missed the entire season, basically. Neesmith is still here. Neesmith. The young guys like Jairus Walker and Ben Shepard and Isaiah Jackson haven't made the jumps you'd hope. But we just went through a top nine that we know, save for Zubats, adds up to way more than the sum of its parts. We know that that's a thing. That's a hell of a team. Can I ask you one Clippers question? Yeah. What the hell is going on? Am I ever going to go to another game? We got 42 minutes left. any universe in which you see Kawhi in play in the next 42 minutes Pistons? that's the thing about Kawhi, he could fit anywhere he's you know but with that said the wow trade is the Pistons if they did Harris and expiring and two first rounders or whatever if you're just talking about an atomic bomb on the east that would be the atomic bomb because he's been one of I think the five or six best players in the league for the last seven weeks. What if the Sixers traded Paul George and all their draft assets back for Kawhi? Oh my God. That's where, if you're, if Ballmer's looking like if there's some big suspension coming up combined with him trying to drive the fan base away, that would be the trade to do it. I don't get how you get Zubats from the Clippers. I don't understand that at all. Well, the Pacers control all of their first round picks. All the Siakam picks have been moved, have been conveyed or sent or whatever the right way is. Let me ask you this. Yeah. Who is going to be the ninth and tenth playoff teams in the West now? This season? Because right now, if you go nine down, Clippers are nine, Portland's 10, Memphis is 11. They just gutted their team. Dallas, 12, Utah, 13, New Orleans, 14, and Sacramento, 15. And the Clippers have 23 wins. Utah is 16. Like, are we even going to have a ninth and a tenth seed? Is everybody just going to pass? Can you just punt on the play-in? Well, Portland should start the parade, plan the parade route now. They're in. Like, by default, they're going to get in the play-in tournament. And this is like, this zooms out to, I mean, I know you want to talk more about some of these East teams. But one of the winners of this trade deadline for you, for me, for the world at large, is the Charlotte Hornets, who are looking at the Bulls above them like, I think you're kind of tanking the Hawks. You made some weird Kaminga trade. The Hornets are going to pass Chicago and get into the play-in, and Chicago appears to kind of just be an asset accumulation, give us all your second-round picks and Dillingham and whatever, and kind of pulling the ripcord on this season, except it's too late for them to meaningfully tank this season because all the teams you listed are so far ahead of them in the tank standings and the teams that they're closer to, Memphis and Dallas, they're also going to start tanking. So the Bulls are, I guess, tanking with a longer lens because they can't tank so deeply this season unless they're just like, well, look, Dallas won the lottery from the 10th spot last year. Maybe we'll do it too. The Bulls were number two on my I have no idea what you're doing. I was waiting for it. I was waiting for it. They were number two. They were right behind Giannis. I have no idea what they're doing. I really liked Anthony Simons. I was genuinely sad when the Celtics traded him because I liked him. I thought he was a really nice fit. I thought the three guards, Jalen Brown, were the key to the team. Matherin is going to the Clippers, by the way, as part of this deal. Not a shocker. The lack of any extension talks before the season sort of telegraphed that he was not a fit in how they wanted to play and build. and the Clippers are always, even when they're making moves from a position of some weakness, they're always grabbing something interesting. He's been available for a couple months. I was wondering if he was going to be... I was wondering, he was in that Kobe White, DeSoonmu, Alvarado, these guys that it was like, oh shit, if they end up on a contender, that's going to be nice. But Bulls, I have no idea what they're doing. At one point, they had seven or eight guards. They've gone sideways They still have 7 or 8 guards They're under the tax, finally I know the Bulls fans I know if you're a Bulls fan, you're going to sleep at night I just hope we can get under the tax And go 40 and 42 again That would be great The last dance, part 11, the year we got under the tax At the deadline They cut the cord with Vooch They were like, we're finally good Thanks for everything Thanks for the secret worst trade of this decade I don't know what they're doing I don't, the moves together just look like the fucking, one of the Zodiac letters, you're just like what is this, what are all these symbols I don't understand you got rewatchables on the brain we have to take a break and then I want to do the rest of the, I have no idea what you're doing rankings and hopefully we'll have some traits the Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by FanDuel I know it's last call for football but did you know FanDuel's touchdown jackpot, you can win a share of $6 million in bonus bets. 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Call 1-888-789-777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra, a superior beer that, by the way, is worth playing for. So what do I mean by that? Well, everything's a competition these days. Why couldn't you put some ultras on the line? Come on. Everybody loves a good competition. As my friends and family know, I love competing on everything. How long I can get to the movie theater, how long we'll take, can I get home before everybody, how long can I get to and from a Lakers game. I'm kind of a maniac. I might have to put some ultras on the line now for this. I'll bet you two ultras I can get home from the Lakers game in less than five stoplights. Whatever you want to do, the stakes are even higher right now with McLoB Ultra's latest challenge because, again, not just beer on the line. We're talking pride. We're also talking tickets to some of the biggest sporting events in 2026. Enter now at michlobalcher.com slash ultra instructor. Michelob Ultra, Ultra Instructor, no purchase necessary, open to U.S. Residents 21 Plus. Begins on January 30th, 2026, ends on February 22nd, 2026. See official rules at michlobalcher.com slash courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details. All right, we're back. I'm going to have to add the Clippers to the I have no idea where you're doing rankings until we find out what this pick is. We were talking during the break maybe it's top 5 protected 26 and if the Pacers end up moving in the top 5 and they get it, then maybe it's unprotected 27 and then some sort of swap anywhere from 28 to 30. There's got to be... I really like Zubats. I voted for All-NBA 13 last year because I'd like to have a center. I wasn't going to get bullied into these positionless lineups. I thought he was a guy that could go into a war with some of the big guys in the league. And also, there's a bigger trend here. And I think this is what the Pacers were trying to do. And I also think this is what the Celtics were thinking about, the Vucevic trade. It seems like everybody wants to get bigger. Everybody's worried about if you're actually going to be in a playoff series about situations where you're going against these double bigs. And you look at the Celtics in the East, every team they'd have to probably beat in a playoff series, if they seriously think they can contend, is going to be able to go bigger on them, right? Like you play the Pistons, they can play Dern and Stewart together. You play the Knicks, they can do Towns and Mitch together. You play Cleveland, they can do Mobley and Allen together. And I just feel like the Celtics with the Vucevic flexibility with Kada and with Garza and Tatum when he comes back, at least they have some size. And maybe the Pacers looked at that and said, You forgot Murray Boyles and Mamu, okay? I like Murray Boyles. but maybe the Pacers looked at that and were like we just got to get in on this because we have Hal Burton coming back and we have a chance to contend I have no idea what you're doing rankings number three for me is the Hawks the details are coming in by the way we're live we're live Matthew and Isaiah Jackson two first round picks and one second round pick for Zubats and Cody Brown we don't still know the details can I say one more thing about the Bulls as long as we're doing that here's what I don't get about the Bulls I understand like I talked to people around the league today like what I asked I texted I just like spam texted what are the Bulls doing and some people like what what's obvious what they're doing they're accumulating assets they got I think nine second round picks in these various trades um they got Rob Dillingham second draft kind of guy for them who will get a chance to play they didn't get in Minnesota like and they have massive amounts of cap space the next two summers I understand that they won't spend I understand all that my thing is like, Desumnu is 26, and Kobe White is 25. They're both good. Desumnu is like really, really good. And so they traded like mid-young-ish, mid-career guys. They traded an old guy in Vooch. So they traded all kinds of different players. Like, what kind of players do they want on their team? What kind of team do they want? Younger, worse versions of the same guys they already had? Yeah, they have Giddy, and like what other piece here? Giddy and who's zealous. And what other piece here is of major long-term interest to me? One of those guards couldn't have helped your team going forward? What kind of team are you trying to actually make here? Assets are great. Second rounders are helpful. The Wolves used a bunch of them to get Io DeSumano. I get it. But what are you doing with them? Well, I think Bulls fans have been asking this for 11 years. We have the details on the Zubats trade. It's a 26 first round pick. This is from Shams. It's protected 1 to 4 and 10 to 30. So it's the double protection. So if it doesn't fall between 5 and 9, I guess it rolls over to the next year. And then it's also a 29 unprotected. Matherin, I like Isaiah Jackson. I'm in the Isaiah Jackson. I think he's got potential camp, and they got Matherin. It's a pretty good trade. That trade makes more sense to me. You have a chance to get 5, 6, 7, 8, or 9 in the draft to replace the pick you're giving to the Thunder. Right? And now they could try to patch together with Lopez with some small ball lineups. Maybe they're going to try to get one more center. So that makes more sense to me. Say that again? It's 1 to 4 and 10 to 30? Yeah, basically if it's 5, 6, 7, 8, or 9, the Clippers get it. What does it become if it's 1 to 4? Well, my guess is usually when there's protections like that, it rolls over to 27, which is why 29 is unprotected. Right? So the Pacers are like probably keeping 26, but if we don't keep it, you get 27 or you get it or you get 27. That's a really interesting trade. It's a good trade. One to four is a win for the Clippers, I think. I'm sure that the two sides negotiated really hard about that exact range of where that should end because, you know, the way the lottery works, I mean, who knows where Indiana will finish. There's going to be a better than 50, 50 chance that that pick conveys. Well, I mean, we'll see how the 10th pick comes into it, but like even the worst record guy the worst team in the league has like a 48 chance of getting the fifth pick And then you go from there It's going to be... For the Pacers, we've been saying it's a three-person draft and then a drop-off, basically for most of the college season. But I think that North Carolina kid is a really nice number four. It won't be better. It'll be like 50-50. I'm doing math off the top of my head. Yeah, if I'm the Pacers... I want to protect my chance at also getting number four because worst case scenario, I get Wilson from Carolina. More I have know what you're doing rankings as we make for more trades. The Kings, they're just blanket in here. I don't know what the Kings are doing. I don't understand why they helped save the Cavaliers $50 million to get DeAndre Hunter. Still trying to figure that out. They got off Dennis Schroeder, but they got on DeAndre Hunter, and they gave up Keon Ellis in the process, and they got Dennis Schroeder for reasons that nobody understood. and then they got Russell Westbrook for more reasons that nobody understood. Who do you think is most sad? Rank the sadness levels if we go 29 minutes and there's no Kings trade. Rank who's most sad. Zach Levine, DeMar DeRozan, Domas Sabonis. Oh, I don't think Zach Levine's sad at all. He's already opted into next year. He's like, are the checks clearing? Kings fans are number one, right? Just like what? Like how? Kings fans one. Sabonis two. Sabonis is definitely two. Sabonis is like, I just can't even believe this is my life now. Sabonis is probably like, I thought I had a chance maybe to sneak over to Toronto, Portland, somewhere, anywhere. Literally anywhere. He signed the extension. My number five, I don't know what you're doing rankings, is the Magic, who have not made a trade yet. And I don't really understand what's going on with that team and the mix of guys they have. And then here's number six, Zach Lowe. Okay. Second round picks. Why are teams so excited about these? It seems like people want them because other teams are dumb enough to trade them. But then when you go through basketball reference and look through all the guys taking them in the second round every year, you got a one in 10 chance of hitting on somebody. Usually it's a guy that was drafted by a team in the second round and two years later ends up on another team like Diabate. Very rarely is this an awesome pick. And it seems like some of these teams fall for it every year and they can't get enough of the second rounders. I don't understand it. Well, it's like the Boston-Chicago trade. The Bulls got New Orleans second rounder, I think, right? Yeah. And so that's going to be the 31st, 32nd, 34 pick of the bat. I get it with that, but what do I care about having? But even that, and the NBA geekery, which I am a part of, obviously, but a lot of it just does, that's a gem of a trade, gem of an asset, and it turns out to be nothing. And these second round picks, they're nice to hoard, because if you get a lot of them, you can do what Minnesota did and just throw six of them at one player. And then you look, it's like, Denver's 20-27. That's not very good. And, like, it's like, you know, I think people fetishize them a little bit. But if you get enough, you can weaponize them for, like, one can-you-get-over-the-goal-line kind of trade like Minnesota made. But can we go back to Orlando? Yeah. Like, they're 25-24. and some of their losses have been recently like the funk level hovering over their team is like a defcon to funk level at this point and obviously they're waiting for franz to come back and crossing their fingers at franz who is i think their best player ties everything together and all of a sudden they're the team that everybody thought they would be that they thought they would be i think that's a little pie in the sky at this point um i think their roster is going to look their team could look very different next year coach roster everything if they don't turn this around but they're also and they're i'm trying to think like what are the teams that lost that feel that feel like they lost because the honest thing got kicked to the summer and what are the teams that won because the honest thing got kicked to the summer and i want to include orlando on the ladder list because you know that paulo for janice paulo and a bunch of stuff for janice is like one of my favorite fake trades but the magic don't have a bunch of stuff anymore and how the bloom is off the rose with paolo like like at the beginning of the season if you were not poison pilled by the arcane cap rules that would have been like whoa milwaukee that's the best they could have done in a yana straight they got the best player and now it's like we'd much rather have evan mobley and probably a couple other kind of guys than that pal is a pretty good prize for honest. I don't disagree. I'm just saying it's How old would it be? Like 23? I think after this season, if it ended today, it would be a lot more like, alright, well they're going to have to sort of figure out how Paolo works and what to do with him. Whereas before this season it would have been like an explosion of like A++ trade grades for the Bucs and blah blah blah. Right. I think you're right. The only other team I had for the, I have no idea what you're doing, but I actually do have an idea what they're doing because the trade made sense is Kaminga and Buddy Heald for Porzingis. The Warriors doing that. It's clear they just had to get Kaminga. They just had to end the situation. That was it. Whatever it took to end the saga and they're like, can we offer you Porzingis? He's basically hurt every year and has some mystery medical condition and we have no idea how many games he's going to play. And they're like, done. Let's call it in. We don't even need picks. that was my we're going to bed trade on East Coast time last night. That trade comes over at like 11.45 KM East Coast time. I'm like, Kaminga and Heald from Porzingis? Might be time for me to turn in. If we've reached this stage of the trade deadline, it might be time for you to turn in. I'm just like, what happened here? Does Kaminga fit on the Hawks at all? Do they care if he fits on the Hawks at all? Why do they want Kaminga? Probably to trade him again at some point. Porzingis like, stretch five. The Warriors really need to stretch five. He doesn't play. Like, I'm not, it sucks that he doesn't play, but he, you can't pencil in Porzingis. It's like, well, this is how he fits in the lineup and they unlocks X, Y, and Z if he doesn't play. Well, we both liked the AD trade for the Wizards. I think the AD trade is like a carnival. I kind of like, I'm like on a carnival ride. I don't know what's going on. I kind of like it. Sometimes I'm getting kind of scared. Like someone next to me threw up, but I'm not sure what's going on, but I'm kind of having fun. I love it. Even House talked himself into it pretty quickly, but they just didn't give up anything. And whatever they got back, worst case scenario, just be a giant expiring contract, which they were throwing into that trade to begin with. The picks are meaningless. They're just going to be end of the round picks. And they have this puncher's chance of AD being able to rebuild his trade value for them. And either it's good for them because he'll be a playoff team, or they can flip him for something meaningful. Like, to me, an absolute no-brainer. And we know why Mahoney did a great piece for The Ringer today, Here's Why Dallas did this, because they just had to move on, and they couldn't have him around anymore. He was this walking embodiment of the dumbest trade that's ever happened. And they just had to move on and, you know, change up the guest room after the murder happened and put new furniture in there and call it a day. But I thought the Wizards, it's rare to say, I think the Wizards have been run really well the last couple years. they've made smart moves that have made sense to me over and over again much like charlotte two teams that have been an organizational disaster who now at least seem like their moves are logical i was in on this i really liked it well and at least when they make up injuries for anthony davis so that they can tank the rest of the season and protect their top eight protected pick that goes to the knicks if it's uh outside the top you don't have to make them up people will believe it you could say anything you'd be like anthony davis stubbed his toe on the stairs in his house longitudinal calf muscles slash something the elevators in his new apartment building closed faster than expected and swooshed him and he's out for 10 games there you believe anything and yeah he has vertigo okay sure but i don't i don't remember anything quite like this where a team that is so abysmally bad that has not enjoyed any meaningful lottery luck in terms of moving up and lucking into a no-brainer generational prospect. I think Sarr is really good. I'm not sure he's a generational like you did. It's not Cooper Flagg or, you know, Wembenyama obviously. He's also not Riesushe. And still so bad. The team is so, so bad. Shot themselves in the foot with the McCollum trade. And they just had two... I'm just like, AD when healthy is the top 20 player. When healthy is a big a big caveat top 25 34 next year and trey young like love him hate him whatever he's a top 40 player in the nba probably if we sat down and ranked them but whatever it is a team that is abysmally bad nakedly tanking just had two all-star level players like fall into its lap and decided like, yeah, I guess, sure. Why not? We'll take Trayvon. It's one of the weirdest situations I can remember. I guess it's fine. They didn't give up very much for it. You didn't give up anything. It's also a good example of why you don't buy out contracts and why you're better off waiting until March before you buy somebody out because you never know. You never know when Dallas is going to be like, we just have to trade this guy. We got to move on from this. And all of a sudden you have Anthony Davis on your team. And by the way, the rap on this was that Rich Paul coached sports was if you traded for AD, you were going to have to give him an extension. There's no extension. I think I heard from other teams that were in, not in, but at least keep us in the loop on AD, that they came off that toward them because they realized it was a losing battle. We got to talk about so we like that trade for the Wizards. Can we flip it around? What do you think of it for Dallas? You just think it's we had to do it even though the picks are no good. I wouldn't have done it. I would have kept him until this summer because it would have been a big, giant expiring contract. I still liked him and Flagg together. We only saw it briefly, but I thought there was real potential there. I just would have kept him. And I get it. I'm not in Dallas. I don't know how grisly and awful it is, that situation. And maybe it's that bad. But fundamentally, I don't know. If he's not playing anyway, you're trying to tank to get a lottery pick. At some point, Flagg will have some sort of injury. They'll shut him down. but I don't understand why he's already hurt this is the best case scenario for you then you can decide what to do this summer why is this a trade now it's because you want to get rid of him yeah I think that's the more interesting conversation about this trade is on the one hand there was like not really a strong there was maybe not much of a market at all for Anthony Davis injured right now like you can't just bank on him coming in and helping a playoff run the contract is what it is the 63 million dollar player option sort of looms over it too I think that's an underrated little element of this that Washington probably doesn't care about, but other teams would. And, you know, like, I don't think the Mavs could have done better than this now. They certainly couldn't have done worse than this in the summer had they waited. I think that's the more interesting angle is like, did they really need to do this now? I'm not convinced. They did not. I mean, what if the Knicks flame out in the playoffs and you could get Towns and something else for Davis? Like, it's just a better asset. Two trades that I love. Do you want be surprised by either of them. Ranking number two on the list, the Knicks getting Alvarado. Basically for Yabaselli in two seconds. They traded Yabaselli for Terry. Alvarado, perfect playoff guy. I was kind of hoping the Pistons would get him. I just thought he would have been great on that team. I do think the bench-clearing brawl odds for Knicks-Pistons in May has probably dropped to plus 240 with Alvarado on the Knicks. I think the odds if they play are... There's a fight. We need referees. I think the more The over-under on what game in the series it is. Do we set it at two and a half and one and a half? Is it just game one? It would be funny if Adam Silver announced the ground rules for the series. We're like, look, you might not believe me. I just want you guys to know if punches are thrown, you're out for four games. Just lay out basically. Here's what's at stake. I don't think there's any way these teams don't get into some sort of fight in a playoff series. Alvarado. I think Alvarado's already gotten in a fight with the Pistons didn't he? I'd have to go back through the Alvarado's like he'll go at it with anybody but I really like them they needed him, McBride's out for a while and you know I just he's a playoff guy, he's a nice man who's going to come in especially at home and he can swing quarters which is what you want but the more important trade you mentioned earlier the soon move on to Minnesota for Dillingham who's a bust for second round picks, whatever Dasun was just legitimately good and he's a class, he would be on the was he on your Marc Gasol All-Stars? I can't remember No. But he could have been he could have made a case as a bench guard I was hoping the Celtics were going to get him I don't know why the Bulls wouldn't want him. He is such an upgrade. What do you think the Timberwolves point guard position was for a grade heading into this week? Was it an F- an F or a D-? One out of every three games Bowens Highland would make it a C-? I think how sad that is Think how sad that sentence was I mean I love their starting Five as is which does not have a traditional Point guard and I think that works fine It's less about the archetype Of that position although it can help late In games and this is a team that's had some late Game meltdowns although they had the opposite Against Toronto last night It's just more about like your bench can't Be Nas Reed And a hope and a prayer every single Every single moment of every single game And they've gone from that to One of the favorites for six man of the year. Good on both ends of the floor. The advanced stats don't love him defensively. I think that's fine and probably flawed because of the team that he's playing for. I think this was my number one target for Minnesota. My favorite potential guard off the bench. The only caveat... Are you carries off the bench? I mean, I would bring him off the bench. Like I said, I think their starting five is great. Well, he might be finishing games for them, though. Sure, that's fine. And like sometimes Nas Reed does, sometimes you just never know who's going to finish games. I love this trade for them. He's sniffing 50, 40, 90 from the field. 45 from three. He attacks all the space. Like when you put two on the ball against Ant and all those gaps open up, he's a very decisive downhill player. He'll inject some pace into their team. I think he's like an absolute A plus perfect fit. The only caveat, Bill, is could they have just re-signed Nikhil Alexander-Walker and saved themselves a lot of trouble? What is your response to that caveat? I like how this played much more. I think this was outrageous how this worked out for them. And I can't believe four second round picks are worth the soon move for a team that's going nowhere anyway. I honestly wish the Celtics had offered their first round pick for him because I think even though they just traded them with the Simons Vucevic, I would have, this is exactly the type of guy on a really smart team that can push the pace when you need somebody to defend another point guard. I just think he's a winning player. And I was surprised they traded him. Because as you said, he's 26. I understand the Kobe White thing. Kobe White, there's odds he might get 25 million a year from somebody who knows. But this is like the classic sneaky, awesome playoff guy. And exactly what they needed. Because now, How many times have you watched them where it seems like, man, I just wish they had somebody who knew how to dribble the ball instead of Ant in some of these crunch times? And he's also capable of, like, he'll go off for a legit 25 points in a game. He's not like, well, he got a 16 tonight. It's a big game. He can pour it in in games when he's hot. He's the key check, take over a quarter guy. I guarantee, I don't know a lot of Bulls fans, there's no way they're psyched about losing him. And he's going to go on Minnesota. He fits with Ant. I'll tell you this, Zach Lowe, because the Minnesota odds were jumping around today for the finals. At one point, they were like, I don't know, 16-1 when it seemed like they had a Giannis chance. It was 20-1 earlier. Now it's 27-1. I think they have the third best chance to win the title. Like, if you, OKC is plus 110 on Fandle, Denver is 7-1. And then the next team is Celtics at 14-1. And some of these teams, Spurs 15-1. I would have Minnesota in the three spot. I think they're built to compete in playoff series And they have a guy who thinks he's better Than everyone else in the league Whether that's true or not, he thinks that And he plays OKC, he plays Denver, he plays whoever And he's like, I'm the best guy in the game And they have a nice team built around him They can go bigger, they can go smaller They have different scoring all over the place The one thing they were missing was somebody like this guy So I'd have him third Look, they've been my dark horse Like they can flat out win the title team All season I really like their team as is it's not perfect it can get a little ugly and stagnant sometimes gobert is a very polarizing player to say the least people kind of the league swung his way a little bit big everything's getting people poo-poo their back-to-back conference finals appearances a little bit like the matchups broke right and steph got hurt like they're a legit conference finals team like they they lost those two series i think both of them were four to one so they haven't acquitted themselves too well at the highest, highest level. But they're a legit, really good team. Aaron Gordon's hamstring stuff is now officially a major concern for the Nuggets, who I think could absolutely win the championship if they're healthy. That if is coming bigger and bigger. And I don't know how odds work. I don't know how you factor in the fact that your first three are all Western Conference teams and someone has to win the East and get to the finals. But to me, they can win the title. And that was the case before this. Although I was baking in, they will do something for sure at the trade deadline like this with Dillingham going out. And this is, to me, the perfect guy. Well, interesting. Denver's in the three seed with 19 losses. Houston's four with less wins, less losses. And then Minnesota's fifth. Denver loses Watson last night. I was watching. Were you watching when that happened? All of a sudden he walked out holding the back of his leg? I did. He did it during a ridiculous Jokic basket. down to the Jokic minutes restriction, by the way, the fakest minutes restriction in the history of the NBA. Why even talk about it? You know what? We're going double overtime. We're going to play 40-something minutes. It happened during a Jokic back-to-end, so I missed it. Then the game went to break and I saw him limping off. I was like, oh boy. It was one of those ones where that looked like... Yeah, it was not a good one. Denver loses back-to-back games against Detroit and the Knicks that were both awesome games. It felt like later-round playoff games. I like the spot Minnesota's in. And then, you know, the other one we didn't talk about was Charlotte with basically upgrading from Colin Sexton and Kobe Jones. Kobe White. I'm sorry, Kobe White. My first live podcast malpractice. Kobe Jones, really important USA soccer player in the mid-90s. That's right. I think. Yeah. Kobe White who I just think is I think Colin Sexton was fun for that Hornets team but I think Kobe White's a better player and makes more sense with them I don't think they're going to get Lonzo I thought when Lonzo got bought out I thought that's where he was going but I don't think that's where he was going Tyus Jones from the Magic in a tax dump and notably in that trade they got two second round picks almost replenishing the three seconds they sent out in the Sexton Kobe White deal. Yeah, Kobe White's just like a better version of Colin Sexton. Right. And a little more thoughtful with teammates and gives them some fun lineups. And Charlotte's third in net rating in the last 25 games? 25 games is not a small sample size. Now, a couple, I wonder what would happen if you turned the two 50-something point victories into like run-of-the-mill 20-something point victories. Right, would it drop? But it's still top five, and they did win those games by 50 points. They look legit. I think it would be super fun if they made the playoffs. And I think they're – I mean, right now, if they got into the play-in tournament, let's say they leapfrogged Chicago. I mean, they're playing better than Atlanta. They're playing better than Orlando. They're playing better than Miami. And, hell, get them in there. Let's have like a Knicks-Hornets first-round series. That would be a blast. What do you think their playing odds are on Fando right now? to get in? The Hornets to be a play-in team. What do you think the odds are? I would just tell you that they were plus 290 two weeks ago. Something roughly better than even odds? Yeah, they're minus 600 to make the play-in now. So Vegas is like, we're in. We completely believe. And I'd like them to actually make the actual playoffs, which is plus 138. I think that team's legit good. And if Lomelo, who knows? Knock on wood with Lomelo. But if he can stay healthy. So some of the other smaller stuff as we get closer to the deadline. Cleveland shed just a phenomenal amount of luxury tax. Not that we care because it's just somebody's money. But they shed about $100 million with that Sacramento trade and then somebody taking Lonzo Ball. I still don't understand what's worth it for these teams to take a $10 million player and hear a couple second-round picks for your troubles. it's like oh gee thanks I would just rather stick them with the tax bill and get the money back from them Philly got under the apron Minnesota was able to shed some money Philly got under the tax, Phoenix got under the tax Denver got under the tax, Toronto got under the tax Orlando got under the tax, wee yay good job. Everybody's under the tax so they don't get slaughtered by it and then the Celtics did not get under the tax yet although it feels like they're creeping toward it but they did get under the first apron. So this Simons-Vucevich trade, it's really Simons for Vucevich and blank because there's going to be a second player that they add, probably a guard because they're a guard short right now after losing Simons. Buyout. Buyout or who knows. Maybe they'll do something the next 10 minutes, but they had a crazy win in Houston. I didn't see that game, but they blew them out. They blew them out without who's got that game? John Brown and Hauser, right? Yeah, and Simons, who wasn't there anymore. Ron Harper outplayed Kevin Durant and started. Houston, when Houston has rough games, they're pretty rough. I don't like the vibe with them. They're not passing. Now, granted, I'm sitting on a TV 1,500 miles away. I'm sitting on a couch 1,500 miles away watching my TV. I thought Adams was kind of their super sauce, super power. and not having him anymore. They just seem beatable every night now. They're fine. They're a 50-win team. Yeah, but without Adams, with Adams playing 20 minutes, you're basically guaranteed a crazy offensive rebounding rate. And without him, you're still a very good offensive rebounding team. But you could have an average offensive rebounding game. And when you lose that element, their offense just gets a little bit stuck in mud. Turns out they missed Fred VanVleet, which I thought everyone was just sort of like waving that away at the beginning of the season. out of excitement for Reed, who's been good, and Amen, who's been very good. They need a player like Fred VanVleet, and he's injured. I have top four best we fucked up admissions. Okay. Number one, Minnesota with Rob Dillingham. Whoops. Damn. So you think that was a fuck up? Because he was like 20 million bucks, and they were way over the... I think they're the same fuck up, in that we let him go and brought Nas back because we had to give these young guys a chance, and none of it panned out. Yeah, yeah, makes sense. That's number one. Number two, not a surprise, but Golden State with the Wiseman-Kominga combo. That's the official... It's the funeral where somebody was not coherent for 10 years, and you still have to have the funeral, but then it's still kind of like, man, looking back, can't believe how that played out. Atlanta last summer... where they had this unbelievable spot, and you were doing bird sounds on your podcast. It's trying to hurt me now. How so that I might have an Eastern Conference long shot bet with them? And weirdly, Alexander Walker was an A-plus for a move, and every other move was terrible. They trade Luke Kennard to the Lakers. So they get out of the Luke Kennard business. They get out of the Porzingis business. They're not in the honest business. I don't know if they want to be a play-in team or a lottery team. Basically, they hit the lottery with this New Orleans trade that Dumars offered them, and that was how they won the summer, but then everything else they did, eh. Well, that's the thing. Like, among the teams that was not in on Giannis now, that it's a small win for them that this gets kicked to the summer, I don't think the Hawks would trade the number one overall pick if they got it for Giannis, just because it's too valuable, the strap is too good. but you know they could nudge their way back into that discussion if they wanted to now but yeah it's been a bad year for the Hawks and Kennard is like, Kennard to the Lakers fine, like Kennard's one of those guys who like every team's excited to get him, he shoots 40% to 45% from three like clockwork and he can't play in the playoffs down the stretch of games or even in the regular season and every team eventually is like yeah okay we're moving off you He does get passed around a lot, I still felt like there was a team for him somewhere at some point in his career. I always thought it just would have been fun to watch him on Denver being used like they used Jamal Murray as the bench backup. Something like that where he's playing up bigs and guys who know how to move and he's just shooting open threes but we'll never see it. And then the last team, the Lakers, I don't know if you noticed the shift in what was being handed out to media from a narrative standpoint but they are now Hey, in case you didn't notice, looking like $60 million in cap space this summer. Cool. Someone said $100 million somewhere, and I'm like, that's definitely not right, because Reeves' cap hold is like $27 million by itself, and then you throw in Luka. The cap's only $160. You got other salaries. But they got a lot of cap space, and they now have three first-round picks to trade in the offseason. Who's the cap space for? Who are the free agents? It's a great question. It's a great question. Cap space. It's so seductive and sexy until you look at the 26 free agent list. I just think when you look back at what they did last year and then talking themselves into DeAndre Ayton, which was hilarious. And it was funny watching Laker fans go through the seven stages of DeAndre Ayton. And now they've reached the final stage, which is what's in the box? What's in the box? A lot of seven references from you. Just watched it. But yeah, they're in the what's in the box stage with Ayton. I want your Lakers thoughts on something I feel like the Draymond Lakers buzz just leapt out of the shadows and into the spotlight explicitly this year I don't know exactly where the reporting came from because it's a word this week of the year but there's legitimate interest, he's got this player option what do you actually is there a world where LeBron leaves the Lakers and Draymond goes to the Lakers or is it like they're going to be, they want to play together? Like, are we, is Draymond still this relevant, for lack of a better word? He, not from a player standpoint, I don't think he's at the same level he used to be. With that said, a Rui for Draymond trade would be really fun. That's actually a trade I was wondering would happen this week. But I kind of liked it for both sides. I liked Rui on the Warriors and I liked the idea of Draymond on the Lakers is kind of trying to supercharge them a little bit. I do think the argument that he got into with J.J. Redick at some point after the trade on the court during a Lakers game would be phenomenal. That might be one of those both guys being held back for real, not like a hold me back, but like a I'm fighting you. By the way, great hold me back by your coach Joe Mazzula this last week when Cassell almost fell over trying to hold him back from the refs. Did you see that? I saw that. I also thought the hold me back of the year was Jeremiah Fierce. Oh, he wants it all. No fears. Zero fears. There was some fears early on, though, when it was just the two of them. Who did he get into it? I can't remember. It was the bigger guy who was mad at him. By the way, to your point about the Pelicans, they trade Alvarado. Otherwise, they're close for business because when you have the worst record in the NBA, you can't contemplate anything. You can't contemplate any trades. they lost in overtime to the Bucs last night. You've made this point before. It does feel like every single game is close and they lose every single game. It's just uncanny. They're up two with a minute left in 40 straight games. The deadline is past. By the way, also Pelicans related. Astonishing how little buzz I heard or even read about Zion Williamson. And his numbers are good. When I watch them play, I just, the pop isn't there as consistently as it used to be. And there are some games where the numbers also aren't there. His free throws are there. That's what he's kind of subsisting on. The numbers are what they are. The eye test for me is like, this guy, four nights out of five, is not the guy that he looked like when he got hurt in that Lakers play game where he was single eviscerating the Lakers I thought he would have been a fun Warriors fucking trade Did you hear anything I didn hear even anything on background talking to executives I heard this team might take a flyer His deal's not guaranteed. I heard nothing. I don't think the Pelicans seem like they really want to do anything. Do their phones work? It's possible. As I've said to you, I would have traded Trey Murphy. I just would have. You can't tell me he's untouchable. My team sucks. Yeah, I did enjoy... I texted people this morning that I enjoyed Trey Murphy night before the trade deadline. I'm like, I got to put on a show just on the off chance I can get the fuck out of here. 44 points. Is anyone watching? Is anyone watching? Throw the third pick in. He was about to be divorced, 40-year-old, going to the bar in the best possible dress, just hoping to get attention from anybody. Look at me, another three. The guy that I thought would be the... He's not being mentioned at all. But I wouldn't be shocked if he was traded today, guy. Because mine was Lou Dort. I mean, that's a good one. That would have been the one I wouldn't have been surprised by, but I think people would have been surprised. Because he's got a team option next year. He just signed with Clutch. And I'm not positive OKC needs him and Caruso and Wallace in a league where scoring is more paramount than ever. I would have said, I would have picked probably someone from Orlando, like Jalen Suggs or somebody like that. Or Anthony Black? I don't think they would move him, but something like what Orlando did what? They just sort of like what Cleveland did, we got to change up something because what we have is stagnating and out of left field comes this. I would have probably have said somebody there or I don't even know, Portland? Portland has kind of been radio silent, but I don't think anybody really wanted Jeremy Grant and I don't know what else I mean Drew Holiday I guess I don't know I kind of like Portland's team I like watching them They're locked in now baby they're getting into playing So deadline pass These next three minutes Will be when it's like whoa this happened And we haven't had a whoa this happened yet We didn't talk About you didn't really give your take On the Simon's Vucevic trade As a member of the Itch All-Stars did you Did you feel like he has anything left in the tank Could you see him in a playoff series? He's never really had a chance to win a playoff series before. He's having his once every three years good shooting year this year. So maybe that sustains for Boston. I think he's going to perk up a little bit, leaving a moribund Chicago team that had long run its course. And he's got the fact that he was traded for the Franz Wagner pick kind of hanging around his neck all the time there. I will say there have been, he's never been a good defensive player. There have been a lot of nights this season Where he's trended toward the Washed level of defense Not on offense, on offense he's still a plus And all that I need to see him perk up like 10% on defense To get like normal below average Instead of like, wow those feet look like They're really in cement 35 But also like Kata's going to start That's set in stone, the guy's too good And he's been too good, you do have Garza Like I'm not counting on him for a huge lift, but it's helpful to have around in that sense. One of my Boston sports fan threads has Mike Scherer on it, who has always been a diehard Vucevic guy. Like, every trade deadline, do we have a chance to get Vucevic? Like, just loves him. And then the Celtics finally got him this year, and he's like, eh, I wish it was three years ago. I was like, really? You've been calling for this since COVID? You wanted this guy, but it might be too late. I really liked how Simons fit in. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they signed Simons in the offseason on a different deal, if they had the ability to get creative in any way to try to get him. Or sign and trade, whatever. I liked him, too. He added some real pop to their team after a rough start, and I just thought there was a certain stability in having two of white, Pritchard, Simons, Browns on the floor all the time. now I think their argument would be Tatum could become one of those four in which case we don't need Simons as much but is this Pritchard just coming off the bench now is that a thing because they lost Simons they're now going to do this is that happening I think they have to stagger Pritchard and White for as much as they possibly can now because they only have two guards that's why I was hoping for Desunmu or somebody like that like somebody that was a little trustworthy with the ball But now they have to stagger it because that's it. And then they'll probably play together in the fourth quarter would be my guess. They're going to experiment with a bunch of double bigs and things like that. Now, what would you tell a Miami fan right now? I would tell a Miami fan that they were all in on Giannis and playing the waiting game the last 24 hours. and if I were them, if I were a Miami fan, I'd be a little worried that we had this window where we were in the waiting game, Minnesota traded out of it, Golden State traded out of it and the Giannis team started falling away and we were maybe the last real team standing and then Giannis went away and yeah, we can trade four first-round picks in the offseason and we still have all the stuff we would have traded for him but now it's going to be a more open on the one hand it's going to be more open because some team will lose in the playoffs and and say okay now we got to go all in and we weren't before on the other hand perhaps he has more leverage on us to direct where he wants to go because he's on an expiring deal but i i do feel like maybe it was never real maybe they were never going to trade i don't know i think miami was under the impression that there was some chance maybe maybe like the dumb and dumber. You're telling me there's a chance chance, but some chance. This is what they do. It's like, here's 40 cents on the dollar for your best guy. Any interest? What? You don't want this? What if you're Tyler Hero and Khalil Ware, who doesn't play? And picks. The Khalil Ware thing with the up and down minutes and like, we're trying Bam and Ware together. We're going to start Bam and Ware together. That's our team to like, now we never play them together and sometimes we're just not going to play Ware at all in the second half. has not helped. Would you have traded Bam in as many picks and swaps as possible for Giannis? Because I would have. I mean, I think you probably have to because I love Bam. I know you did. His contract is... Back when your fingers used to work, you wrote a long Bam piece once. I love Bam. Bam's a winner. I think that was functionally not doable because Bam and Giannis have the same agent, and the idea is to play them together, pair them together. Cool. Unfortunately, somebody has to be in the Giannis trade. That is true. And you have one asset. That is true. I'm trying to think who else is probably kicking themselves right now. I'm still, I don't know. I think this is such a weird NBA story. We still don't know for sure how badly he wanted to get traded, and we still don't know for sure what kind of asset he was. Can I just report something? Wait, who, Giannis? I would have thought teams would be in a fistfight trying to get him. Oh, Cam Thomas, your guy. What happened? He got waived. Small one of silence. Waived? Cut? Pick his team in free agency, baby. Do you feel better about your summer dust up or no? No Wow, waved Most depressing tweet of the day Chris Haynes No trades materialized for the Sacramento Kings And they held on to DeMontis Zach Levine, DeMar DeRozan, and Malik Monk It's like the laundry list And Morant We gotta talk about Morant He's a grizzly still Unless something crazy happened Are we sure he's a grizzly? He's a grizzly I had my Kings Moran jersey ready I had it pre-ordered at NBA.com Nice purple jersey Waved Cam Thomas So who needs I mean really this is this generation's Deion Waiters award potentially Who needs A heat check guy off the bench the most Could this be like a Celtic It's a big grenade It's a big grenade to throw onto your bench It's like he's coming in hot Like he's coming in hot So it's a team that's probably Struggling for scoring in a bunch Of different ways Bench scoring is a disaster For them That's not a Detroit team is it I don't think they would mess around With the messing Messing around with their chemistry at all Could Houston just go in there And be like That's a team that does not need a chemistry Well that's true Please no I'm just seeking a team that can use a guy to come in And be like alright go get hot Breaking case of emergency We don't need to talk more about Cam Thomas I just wanted to note it Because I do think he's No Cleveland right No In Minnesota had they not Although I don't think he's Tim Connelly's kind of player Had they not gotten a boost and the guard play would have gotten it at something. A scale of 1 to 10, how shocked you'd be if OKC has picked up Cam Thomas? 10.5. 10.5. By the way, the McCain trade is a sneaky... I think you talked about it yesterday. That's a sneaky interesting trade. I loved it. I was kind of mad. That was another one I would have loved for the Celtics. McCain was just on the wrong team. I still think he's an asset. He's had a great career. He's won everywhere he's went, and he just randomly ends up on a team with Maxie and Edgecombe together, which is probably the best young backcourt. Yeah, it's like fine. I mean, they definitely paid a price for him. They gave up a first in three seconds. As you know, I don't care about seconds, but by NBA standards, that was a lot. Yeah. The Rockets picked this year, I think. Do you think McCain plays for them now? I don't see why he, like, I mean, look, it's a big integration on a team. He's definitely going to play in the regular season Just because of how many players they have that are hurt In the playoffs, I could see a scenario Where offense is a little stuck in mud Shea's on the bench For his rest period Let's throw him in and see if he makes some shots They tried A.J. Mitchell in the finals last year A.J. Mitchell has obviously ascended into A big part of their team I could see him getting on the floor What team did you want to trade for John Morant? In your heart of hearts Just as for content As a joke? No, for content, but a trade that actually makes sense. I mean, I do think there's an argument for the Kings to do it. And I think they would have done it if they could have just done it for dead money and no assets. But the Grizzlies rightfully are like, we're not doing that. We have two years left on this contract. I think he's fine for a team that has hemorrhaged actual good point guards and sent them flying all over the league. I think it's a fine buy low opportunity for them. They were always my favorite one in terms of like, it's not like they're playing for anything. So if he messes up your chemistry or whatever, it doesn't really matter. I don't know. Did you have one? Yeah, mine was Golden State. Wow. That would be. Let's get weird. Are you trying to drive Steve Kerr out of coaching? I mean, what? Maybe that would be a piece of it. Well, one thing with Golden State is they don't really have anybody who can beat someone off the dribble other than Steph, who just has five guys guarding him at all times. At least you set 100 picks for him. And I thought it would have been a really fun random wrinkle to just have Ja on that team trying to create space and attack. And now I'm a little less, I can't be as shaded over to Steph. I don't know. I just felt like Golden State was at the point of their season. I guess they did it with Porzingis, where they're just going to do some sort of weird trade. and maybe it turned out to be Porzingis. So we had no other trades. That's really it. Cam Thomas was our big news. Well, Zubat's on the live pod. That was an hour ago. That was a while ago. Nothing has happened of note trade-wise since then. So big picture. Yeah. Minnesota has increased their title on kind of their title persona. Yep. The Clippers might be out of the playoffs now. I mean, if Garland plays, and I'm excited to see this Niederhauser kid. He's been good when he's got minutes. If he's all right and Garland plays, I mean, who's passing them that's out of the play-in right now? Well, you just mentioned if Garland plays. And there's multiple stories about, yeah, they're trying to figure out, can they use different implanted lifts for his sneakers to help his toes? You know what basketball players need? Toes. There's also the Kawhi at any moment. It could be like Kawhi's away from the team for a week and whatever. You just never know. But Memphis isn't going to try. Dallas isn't going to try. Utah's not going to try. Everyone else is way too far behind. So if you go last 25 games, net rating. Miami is 15th at 12 and 13 so 12 and 13 in the last 25 games and did nothing at the trade deadline I just think this whole Miami thing is weird I really thought at least they'd take a swing on Ja I think it was going to be Sacramento or Miami as the realistic Ja teams as like the fuck it they didn't even do that so I don't know what does Miami think is going to happen here I don't know that they were ever super in on Ja I don't blame him but I just thought it was a possibility I think they would probably look at it and say given his availability issues over the last three seasons is he $30 million better than Davion Mitchell no we're just not going to do it I wonder how much Florida and South Beach tied into it too that's at least the conversation Oh, there's no question you would talk about it if you were them. Do you think Cleveland has more of a chance to win the title now than they did? You could argue that they are one of the big winners around the league because nobody around them in the East made a meaningful win now, like a big meaningful win now. I mean, Alvarado helps the Knicks. Herter helps the Pistons. You know, Vucevic helps the Celtics. but nobody made the kind of like, oh, oh crap. They're really, they're really going for it kind of move. I do think just Harden will play. Like I did the whole Harlan garden, Harden Garland thing on my pod, but it's a super interesting trade. I listened to it. You had one really funny moment. You, you were basically like glass half fulling how bad he is in the playoffs. And you said something and you were right. you weren't wrong, but you said something like, and Harden, you know, his playoff history speaks for itself, but every once in a while during a series, he'll have two good games. Just win in five. That's technically true. Just win in five. Win all your series in five. Two of seven and maybe in the last game you rely on somebody else. Maybe that'll work. I thought that was funny. I do think, I mean, it's a, I just can't, I still can't believe that trade happened in the sense of like, Cleveland trading for James Harden, Cleveland trading Darius Garland. But just based on availability alone, they are better than they were before. They obviously didn't trust Garland to be available. So the Clippers wanted upside. The Cavaliers wanted availability. And if you're putting James Harden on a team that has a chance to win the title, one of the conditions has to be, can somebody else score if there's a big game? And in their case, yes. this is one of the bizarro things of both the Clippers trading for James Harden and the Cavaliers trading for James Harden is you begin to talk yourself into it by almost turning his weaknesses into a strength that fits your team like he can get us to game six and seven and then because he's reliable and he's available he's a volume guy and then we have this other guy who can get us over the hump when he you know does his thing you know the thing that he does I'm like I don't what are the logic is warping my brain. Well, remember, I mean, if you ever did a documentary, it would be about the greatest theoretical team of all time, as you called it, the Brooklyn Nets, for what, two months? They were unstoppable. Harden was off the ball a lot on that team, and it just felt like every three was going in. Remember? There were times when he was just kind of over there, like, ready to shoot, and it was really terrifying, and I wonder if the Cavs can unlock that at all. But I also wonder, like, at his age, and how long he's been in the league. He's just so used to having the ball. Would he be cool with just not having the ball that much at this point of his career? He is the system. I mean, there were times with Kawhi when he wouldn't have the ball all the time, and that's going to be the case now. But the mid-season adjustment aspect of these trades is, I think, underrated in the euphoria of analyzing them and thinking about the fit. It's a big adjustment to plop him into your team. Last thing on the Zubats trade, because I guess we're going to wrap it up soon because nothing else happened. Did the Pacers, the more I'm thinking about it, give up too much for Zubats there? That could be the fifth pick in the draft. It's a very good job by the Clippers to get. Now, I think the reporting is it becomes unprotected, but 2031, which is also a pretty valuable asset, actually. I'd rather have it that than 27. That's a lot of assets That's a good trade by the Clippers You're back in it, Gahal If you're going to do that trade With Zubats on the contract that he's on You've got to get an absolute blue chip asset And I bet they haggled for top three protection Top six protection Pacers coming back saying that And they settled in a spot that makes sense Again, I don't know this draft well enough Do you like that trade for the Clippers? I kind of like it Me? Yeah So if they're getting two unprotected picks If this trade doesn't hit in this draft, and they're getting 29 and 31 from the Pacers, unprotected picks, big commodity. You can always trade them. And Matherin will fill in some scoring. And then they weren't winning the title anyway with Zubats. We'll see what Matherin actually is because they've been very protective of what is left of their cap space post-Kawhi contract. And maybe Kawhi takes up some of that cap space. I don't know. so I'm not sure that Matherin is going to be like part of their team that doesn't mean they can't sign and trade him but we'll see well you know I'm on the record I like Matherin I think he's I watched it in person that's a guy that's not afraid of big moments and he was going against an OKC set of pit bulls that were about as frightening as you could find and was still pretty comfortable and having moments against them I thought I don't know I just think that guy could be in a playoff series Look, they made the finals last year. They're a game away from the championship, and he was a reliable part of their rotation. Some nights it hit, some nights it didn't. But when it hit, it was like, all right, he just manufactured. You need the manufactured points sometimes. Like, man, we're playing a great defense. We're missing our threes. This guy got us six free throws in three minutes that kept us above water. You need guys like that. All right, so we're on Cam Thomas' watch. Yeah. we are sadly taking a hibernation break for Giannis watch but I guess that heats up again around the draft right that's not too far away conceivably they could trade him during the finals if they wanted more likely July 1st and I think he blew it I really do I think he should have forced their hand but who knows maybe the sports movie ending will be he comes back in April they make the play and then Giannis goes on a legendary one with Ryan Rollins See, you're joking. You're joking. And I don't think that's going to happen. Shouldn't we at least acknowledge that it's kind of cool that part of him wants to be a one-team guy? Now, it's not all of him, and that's what's been frustrating, right? I think he wanted to get traded. I just don't think he wanted to ask to get traded. I think you're probably right. Okay, I take it back. If he said he wanted to be a one-team guy, he would have said, please don't trade me. I want to be a one-team guy. He keeps saying things like, you know, I love Milwaukee. if you told me that Milwaukee's going to contend for championships forever, the conversation's over. I want to be here forever, but I don't know if that's the case. I don't know what he wants. And he doesn't know what he wants, and that's why he's a buck, baby. It's a long relationship. It's like when your spouse, when it's like, I thought you told me last week you weren't going to drink wine anymore during the day. Yeah, I did, didn't I? Now I'm having a glass of Chardonnay. What, do you have a problem with that? That's Giannis. last week I thought you told me you wanted to be traded no no I want to stay here and then a week later you know what it would be great to get traded I don't know the Bucks were always pretty adamant that he wasn't as pushy to be traded as it was being portrayed we'll never know the truth he didn't nothing he said in public convinced me that he didn't want to be traded let's put it that way it's a great point I like the wine metaphor Zach Lowe It was a true pleasure We should mention on the Zach Lowe show Are you taping that Tonight or tomorrow We're going to tape it tonight I'm going to make some calls for the next few hours And get ready we're going to tape it tonight That's popping up late night Midnight 1am You can watch it on Spotify You can watch it on Netflix as well I can't remember when we're starting on Sunday nights but we're going to be doing Sunday nights together on this podcast for a while. Pretty soon. Super Bowl's over. Go see us. A lot of basketball stuff. Zach Lowe, good to see you. We're going to take a break. Coming back with Joe House talking Super Bowl next. Welcome to We Kept the Receipts presented by Tax Act, where we look back at our predictions and figure out who deserves a victory lap and who is completely off base. And a lot of years, I'm in both camps. Tax Act helps you with actual receipts like the kind that you can use for tax deductions or credits and the ones that help you get your maximum refund every tax season. So we're wrapping up football season right now. And I was really high on the Patriots and on the Broncos and on the Seahawks. But you know who else I was high on? The Las Vegas Raiders. I thought they were going to be a playoff team. I thought the Bears were going to be in the playoffs too. You'll win some, you'll lose some. But I really thought the Patriots were going to be good. Did I pick them to make the big game? I did not. But you win some, you lose some. We kept the receipts. That was presented by Tax Act. This tax season, make your max refund the one prediction that actually pays off. Visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com for details. All right, Joe House is here doing yeoman's duty. Is that how you pronounce it? Yeoman's? Yeoman's. Yeoman's. Who's yeoman? I don't know. Oh, my God. with that gentleman's work. That's like what our buddy Blue Boy called it Duquesne instead of Duquesne. You're doing yeoman's work. Yeoman's. And yeoman's work. I already talked about the Anthony Davis trade with Zach Lowe. You are a Wizards fan. America wants your take. Let's hear it. I give it an A plus from a couple different angles as a Washington fan. And I've seen the reasonable kind of caution that's out there. Here's the problem. There hasn't been anything to root for in terms of Washington basketball in what feels like a full decade. I mean, really seriously. 2017. There you go. Those playoffs were the last time there was enthusiasm. Now, always tip of the cap to Russell Westbrook, who dragged a sorry-ass team into the eighth seed in 2021 or whatever the year was, showed Beta Beal, This is the pathway to being an actual, like, you know, let's go down and go after it kind of approach. And they got slaughtered by Philadelphia. That was the only other real sort of interesting competitive basketball team in the last 10 years. So the commitment by this front office, when you are doing the cost benefit analysis, the cost is very, very, very low. You have not bit down on any huge salaries. You haven't bit down on any extensions with anybody. But the city's had enough. We want to see some competitive basketball. There is an enthusiasm. I've been going to games this year, sort of interested to see how the fans are reacting and how the kids themselves are developing. And there really is something here. when they play hard and when they were trying to win games, this little group with CJ McCollum and Chris Middleton, and you could tell when Washington was trying to win games because they would leave Middleton or McCollum or both in the game in the fourth quarter and say, hey, we're trying to win one. But it was fun. And, you know, the Washington community has been supporting this young group, but it's a very small community. I mean, part of the problem is Ted Leonsis is sick of looking up at an empty stadium. Now this is the conundrum for the franchise We've told everybody that we're tanking We are going to tank But please come to our games That's a tough one to pull off You want to be where Charlotte is Where you have some assets And then all of a sudden you start playing well And there's energy out of nowhere all of a sudden I told Zach I didn't see the risk in this You didn't really give up anything You have the chance To revamp him as a trade asset So that was the serious basketball analysis Now let's talk about the funny part of this This is just a classic Wizards trade. You're getting a guy who peaked five years ago, and you're pairing him up with a guy who peaked four years ago, and they both look good together in the little screenshot things, and it's like, look, we got Anthony Davis and Trey Young and some young guys. Come see us. But it's the guys who peaked a while ago, which is what you went through with. I mean, how many people do you want to go through here? but this was the Antoine Jameson that's a long time ago that's not this era getting Bernard King why are we going to the history books this is getting Mark Price well Mark Price could play when they acquired him who are some of the other classics I mean I'm surprised that you've taken this long Michael Jordan's not a bad example maybe the best example now he put himself in Because he had an ownership interest in the team. So he acquired himself. Rashard Lewis was another classic. I mean, it's not necessary. I'm just saying. Different front office for most of the era that you're describing. You're taking advantage of a franchise that is so scarred by the worst trade in the history, the NBA, that they just want to erase all evidence that it happened. They're like, we need to get this guy off the team. he's a walking reminder that we traded Luka Doncic for 10 cents on the dollar and we just need to get him away and that's why they did it I like the gamble because worst case scenario you didn't lose anything best case scenario he's an expiring contract next year you didn't have to get an extension and then who knows he has a player option but he wants the extension you might be able to rehab him into like a real trade asset in February or somebody you want to keep same thesis for Trey by the way. I think we have a better idea. I think he's motivated though to rehabilitate himself to show what kind of a player he can be as a facilitator. Could he be motivated to make some threes? Davis just needs to play. I'd rather that Trey pass the ball than shoot the three. It's hilarious you've talked yourself into this already because Davis was I think a top five this century guys you were the most frustrated by. Well, because he's every other Davis. I mean, he He plays every other day. But when we're thinking about it in the context of trying to develop, all of this boils down to immense pressure on these ping pong balls that are going to be shaken out in this lottery machine. So you have a few guys that aren't going to play again this year probably. You have a young team that's probably going to lose. You have a real chance to get one of the top four picks. Put them with Saar. Put them with Trey Johnson. and then we like George we talked about him in the trade value pod and then you have AD and Trey as the wild cards and you have trade bait if you want to go all in and get somebody. I didn't mind it. I think the Wizards have been smart for a couple years now. I can't even ding them on the Trey Johnson pick because I don't know who else they should have taken. You could have said oh we should have taken Cedric Howard but they wouldn't have done that last year. Nobody had Cedric Howard going fifth. You can't do the redraft They'd be like, oh, they blew it. I know. They didn't blow it. The Nets might have blown it. That was the pick after them. Okay, Super Bowl. So Drake Bay seems fine. I feel a lot better than I did on Sunday's podcast with the Cubs. Knocking on wood for it to stay that way I incredibly confident I feel great I love that everybody loves Seattle I love it I've made a lot of the cases the last couple weeks about their defense is really good. I don't think it's great. I don't think they can overpower us. It's not one of those defenses that's going to get 10 sacks. I think their offensive line has some holes. Like one of the guards, Milton Williams and Barmer just pushing up the middle. I think they can do some damage. I think our defense can match their defense. And then the wild card would be Drake Mayow playing Sam Darnold. Pat's plus four and a half line hasn't budged. Yep. And I've liked it the whole time. I like them in little teases. I think you could talk me into a tease with taking them to double digits with the over, just taking them to 7.5, knocking down the over a little bit. Pat's money line. I honestly feel like I'm watching 2001 again. No respect. Brady says he doesn't have a dog in the race, which really offended all the Pats fans. I did an Instagram video about that yesterday. You don't have a dog in the race, Tom Brady? Really? Just offensive. I don't understand that at all. And I love the spot. And most importantly, I don't see anyone picking the Pats. It feels like this is Seattle across the board. This is a coronation. How did things change in four weeks? They beat the depleted Niners twice, and they barely beat the Rams, and Stafford threw all over the place on them. The Rams moved the ball the whole game. So why is this a juggernaut? Who said it's a juggernaut? It's been traded that way. I don't think it is. All of this, to me, lines up with the priors and what we have observed over the entirety of the season, which is to say that Seattle was sort of power-rated in a certain place near the top of the league for going on however many weeks you want to say, 12 weeks now, 13 weeks? Yeah. And the Patriots have been ascending. They weren't rated at the top at the beginning of the season because they lost to the Raiders and they lost to the Steelers. So it's taken some time for the Patriots, you know, the true Patriots version of this team to reveal itself. 15 is 16 wins. And the playoff games didn't really instill a shit ton of confidence from the offensive side, right? Okay, but why are people throwing out the weather part? That's the part I don't get. Why are people discounting this? Sunday night against the Chargers, freezing. Houston game was one of the coldest games in the history of the franchise. And then Denver, blizzard in the second half. Not to mention zero wind chill. It's fine in terms of the weather thing. He also played a guy who... We got lucky. I mean, that's like if they just go up 10-0, I think the Pats probably lose. I also don't know if Seattle has the type of team that I would be the most worried about from a defensive standpoint against the Pats it's the guys that weren't like the Will Anderson type Benito like those are the guys that the Pats just the tackles have had trouble just staying in front of and they've had to change their offense in a bunch of ways to chip those guys second protection Seattle's like a push up the middle that's where they get their pressure they don't get a ton of sacks and Lawrence is the best guy they have he's very good but we've been okay blocking those guys so I don't know I think you can throw in them is there a cornerback on Seattle you love it's just a very solid secondary everybody's solid and they get the benefit of pressure from that front that makes quarterbacks you know the quarterbacks aren't sitting back there getting to third reads and the Darnold pressure stats are fantastic I mean he's basically in the bottom five in a bunch of different categories if you can actually get in his ass, which I think the Patriots can do. And I really think people got thrown off by those two San Francisco games when they had this patchwork team that included Keon White, who we waived. We basically traded him for a seventh-round pick, and he's playing all the time for the Niners. It just wasn't a good defense. They did an okay job against the Rams blocking them and stuff, but I'm also not positive how good the Rams' defense was. Like, we saw the Panthers going up and down on them. Rams up front are super solid. Solid. Not amazing. They're not Houston. Are the Patriots amazing up front? I think with Williams back, it's going to be really hard to run on them. There's no question that both teams are taking away the run. So this is the true fascinating challenge. It's Kubiak versus McDaniel, right? And we're going to have to see some wrinkles out of these offenses, some things we haven't seen. And that's why I think all of the Kenneth Walker enthusiasm is well placed. He's super dynamic. And as you see him as the principal guy getting touches, I've been impressed by like, oh, look at how he moves. He moves kind of in a Bichon way. But he's only a 17 and 19 carry game guy. We've never seen him have more carries than that. I think their backup's terrible. it makes no sense whatsoever for them to rush 19 times try and rush that many times against the Patriots well some props that I was looking at and Sal and I went over some of these we have to make three picks three picks right for ringer 107 you're asking me yeah I think it's three how the hell would I know it was four four four three maybe it's five that's too many I think it's three four five maybe it was 5-5-4-3 that's what it was 5-5-4-3 America loves this yeah great contest the fantasy guys have a chance to win they're like what's the prize I was like there's no prize we're gonna pretend this contest never happened figure out a better version of it next year Ramondre 10 plus yards rushing in the first quarter that one jumped out to me why because I think the Pats, the way they've done, they've been very conservative in these first quarters. I think they're going to establish the run. And they probably have two run plays for that first quarter that they feel like they can get on Seattle. And I just think they're going to test them and try to do it so they can set up the play action for the next couple quarters. So I was looking at one parlay. It was Ramondre, 10-plus rushing yards first quarter with the over of 36.5 points for the game. I think 36.5, I like that number because it's really rare for a Super Bowl to go lower than that. Like the only one I can think of is Rams-Pats like eight years ago. Two teams are going to get to 37 points. They're running like crazy plays, right? Like what are the odds? You don't like it? Well, I'm worried about a 24 to 10 game. Interesting. I don't think either team is going to score 10 points or less. Okay. I just don't think that Seattle is going to be able to move the ball at least a little bit. And then just the Pats, if it's normal weather, I don't see how they're going to get shut down. I'd be really surprised by that. I don't think the Seattle team defensively is like some of these other great defenses we've had. It's not the OO Ravens. It's not the Seahawks against the Broncos. It's not the Patriots against the Rams in that Super Bowl. But they're certainly as good as the three defenses that the Patriots just played and had a ton of trouble with. They're certainly as good as those three defenses. Well, I don't think they're as good as Houston's defense. They're in the neighborhood. But solid weather this game, unless it starts raining, which is 30% chance. I don't know. Why are you so captivated by the weather? Because I think the Pats had trouble in bad weather. They were a different team. I watched them all year. They just didn't get the same explosive plays. All year they were getting explosive plays. They didn't get them in those three games in the same way. Yeah, because those defenses are really fucking good. They're the three best defenses that the Patriots played. I know, but come on. I'm not slicing that apple in half I'll give you a little bit I'll give you a quarter chunk of an apple in terms of the weather but I'm not giving you half the apple like the weather Ramondre yeah it's funny though because the Rams Bears was 2017 the Rams offense looked like shit the whole game people were like ah the weather so why did they get the weather excuse it was the weather that was colder same thing for the Pats it wasn't colder it was the same the Houston game was colder than the Bears game We had like the freezing sleet stuff. Drake may over 225 pass rush combined. 225 pass rush. So you, we both basically get around 190 to 200 passing and 30 to 35 rushing. Some combination. He might be able to beat that by himself, especially if they can't run the ball. You put that with Pats plus seven and a half. That's minus 120. JSN one reception every quarter what do you think the odds are just one just one reception little north of even plus 100 look at this I don't feel bad about that one catch a quarter for JSN figure like bubble screen over the middle one deep pass Seattle has the ball once a quarter. He's just not going to touch the ball on a drive. He's going to have to touch the ball every drive. Seems like it. They certainly will be featuring him, it seems. Lawrence sack plus 120, I think, is an awesome bet. The Pats gave up five sacks in three games, and really it probably would have been more if they hadn't gone so conservative. You mean five sacks a game? Fifteen total sacks? Yes. They did do that. It probably would have been more if the blizzard hadn't come. AJ Barner rushing TD 18-1 that's fun that's just a tush push on the one yard line that's a fun one 18-1 they played this game 18 times that's not going to happen once yeah 50 bucks out of my pocket on that one Tonga touchdown mentioned this on Sunday with Mike Vrabel doing the I'm going to pass it forward to the guy who's not a skill player near the end zone that's 75-1 wanted to fight that Drake May second quarter over 71.5 passing receiving yards. Say that again? Drake May. Second quarter only. 71.5 passing receiving yards. That's minus 112. Why is it passing receiving? I'm sorry. Pass rush. Oh, pass and rush. Yeah, my bad. So one run for 11 yards. He can get the ball at least twice in the second quarter. Maybe even a third time. Can't turn the ball over. Can't have three and out. This team has always been slow first quarter. Kind of gains team second quarter. I thought that was a good one. Well, they have an outstanding record over the course of the season in terms of first half. They've been dominant straight up and against the spread first half, the Patriots have. Well, that leads me to the next pick. Patriots first half tie second half Patriots win where's Shregs at what do you think that is for this game it's a big number first half tie Patriots win second half in the game plus is that like 12 to 1 27 to 1 oh man 10-10 at halftime? 3-3? I don't mind the tie at the half. I really don't. It could be 17-17. It's one of my favorite bets. Barnard, just the score at TD, is plus 230. So you get all touch-push stuff plus anything around the goal line that's not JSN or Cup. I don't hate it. Ramondre, over 49 and a half yards, rushing. I don't know. Ramondre, most rushing yards in the game, plus 270. Huh. If he fumbles, will they keep giving him the ball? He hasn't fumbled in three months. I understand. So the Ramondre plus 270, my question is, if the Patriots shut down Walker, which every running back they've gone against, I think, with Milton Williams in the game has been, what, 52 yards and under, something like that. I don't think anyone's gotten a 60 on them. Yeah, there's a thing where if Milton Williams has played in the game more than 50% of the snaps on defense, no running back has rushed for over 50 yards, I think. I think that's the stat. Okay. So could Ramondre get to 58 and Walker's like 17 for 49 and Ramondre plus 270? Plus 270 is the catch with that one. My issue isn't Walker. My issue is your other running back. Because what if he pops one? Yep. Well, that's the other one that Sal and I talked about the other day. The Henderson, I think 80-plus yards was 25-to-1. Yeah, the Henderson ladder makes some sense to me. Like little, you know. It's just one one. It's a unit plays, you know, whatever. A couple of, you know, 20-buck plays here and there. 25-to-1, he's broken a 65-yarder and a 69-yarder. Yeah. One of my favorite, favorite bets, Matt Collins, 50-plus receiving yards, plus 310. I talked about this with Sal on Sunday. In the bigger games, before he got hurt, he was always prominently involved, and he's probably, other than Diggs, the favorite receiver for Bane, like a big third-down guy. He always seems to get like a 28-yarder over the middle or something. I like the Hollins. I like getting involved in Hollins. Cooper Cup, over 40-plus yards, plus 138. So the case here is he's going to play a ton of snaps. They need him for the blocking. I think the Pats are just going to try to take out Smith and Jigba completely. They're not going to, but they're going to try. Because they have the right. They have Gonzalez. They have Marcus Jones. I can stay with them on the short stuff. They're just going to shift everything to him, and Cup's going to be out there all the time. And does Cup become like, fine, you're giving us this. We'll keep taking it kind of thing. 40-plus seemed low to me. I thought he was weirdly essential for them in those playoff games, even if his stats didn't reflect it, right? He made, in many respects, the play of the game on that conversion. Any defensive or special teams touchdown? I wish this line was better. It's plus 210. Nah, I'm not messing with that. It doesn't seem high enough, right? Yeah. It doesn't seem high enough. There's some Marcus Jones Super Bowl MVP stuff that we talked about Sunday. That's 100-1. A couple people have mentioned this MVP one to me if the Pats win. Milton Williams at 225-1. What's the scenario for him here? Like a sack fumble, he gets it. A second sack. He recovers it. The Seahawks can't run at all. He lumbers into the end zone on one. Pats don't do a lot on offense, so it's like a 17-6 type game. MVP for him means it was a strip sack fumble. He recovers it himself, and he runs it into the end zone. He gets the safety. That's the play. He just kind of takes over the game. Yeah. I thought 225 was high. Big number. What's been your favorite stuff? What have you been looking at? I know you've been on Ringer Gambling Show. Yeah, I mean, I'm all over all of the Kenneth Walker, you know, that's the most popular bet, I think, that's out there. And all anybody's talked about for two weeks is Kenneth Walker receiving yards. But I think that that fits exactly the way that Seattle's going to try and play this. I like some of the... Is that too popular? It might be too popular. Yeah, I mean, you know, I like the idea of both quarterbacks throwing an interception. I'll play it individually and together. I think there are going to be turnovers in this game. The May rushing yards, you know, this is all bread and butter stuff, stuff that people have covered, but these are the ones that I've actually bet. Like, what's on my card? Hunter Henry over in terms of yardage. I think that's going to be an important part. The one thing that – Why are you going, Chuck? Seattle. Well, these were all bets that were available as soon as the market opened and that I bet and then, you know, prices have changed. Yeah. But this is, you know, those all make sense to me. That's the script. Well, we did a couple of crazy ones with the cousin Sal this week. I bet on Shahid to at some point exceed 19.5 miles per hour on the next-gen stats. Wow. As a ball, you know, carrying the ball. And I think you get the benefit of a kick return. So if he gets out and gets going a little bit or, you know, gets a catch out on the perimeter and gets going, 19.5 miles per hour, that's plus four. That was a nice number. No, no, not plus 420. I can't remember. No, that was minus 114 for him to go over 19 and a half. Is that on Fandle? Yes, yes. It's in the specials. There's a bunch of guys you can gamble on their highest speed. Will they get to 18 and a half miles an hour? Yes or no? Shahid 19 and a half. 19 miles an hour? Yeah. But he would have to make a big play at that point. You need him at 20 miles an hour. So you need him either in a kick return capacity or a default capacity. If you're going to do that, why not just bet on him to have a touchdown? You could. If he's running 20 miles an hour, that means he's running in the end zone. He could run 20 miles an hour and get tackled. It takes the pressure off of getting in the end zone. That's pretty good. I like you mentioned the walker. So 25 plus rushing yards for him. I'm sorry, receiving yards is plus 114. Yeah. 30 is plus 162. That's one real route that goes for like 22 yards, which is the play every Patriots fan is terrified of in this game. With the slow linebackers and something designed and the receiver coming out, the running back receiver coming out in space and making a play. Absolute favorite. Love it. So that's 25. We could make that one of the bets, one of the ringer bets. I support it. I endorse it wholeheartedly. 25 plus. you know who else is 25 plus? Matt Collins. Minus 114, 25 plus receiving yards. Could also be a ringer one for us. You like that one? I like both of those. How many do we have to do? I don't know. I'll just do four. The people can choose. Yeah, the people. So we like Collins. We like Walker. Do you like Lawrence getting a sack? Yes, love that. Adore it. Yes, it's huge. Big time. Bigly. Yes, do it. And did you like JSN to get a reception every quarter at plus 100? That's fine. That's a good one. All right. So here's what we're doing. Oh, I really like the over, though. Did you like Pats plus 7.5? No, I do like the Barner one, too. Pats plus 7.5 with Drake over 225 passing rushing yards, minus 120. or would you rather do Pats plus 4.5 I have Pats plus 10.5 and under 51.5 that makes me nervous you don't like the under I just think Super Bowls weird shit happens that's a true story you just have the lid would really have to come off the thing that's crazy is you have the number one and number two most efficient pass offenses. Right. And you have the top two run defenses when Milton Williams plays. So what is that going to push the teams into? It's why I think you're Ramondre that it's interesting to me that 10 yards in the first quarter bit, because that's the zag for the Patriots. Can we, let's take a shot at establishing the run. Right. Maybe an outside run kind of concept. So Pat's plus 10.5 is minus 310 on FanDuel. And that would mean the over would have to go to 39.5. Pat's 10.5 over basically 40 plus points and up. We could do as a bet. What's the price? That's minus 119. Okay. You prefer an over to an under. I think both teams are going to move the ball better than people realize. Okay. Because I just think that Seattle's going to be able to throw the ball in the pats. Davis will have at least one PI, right? And just in general, the Superbowl is when you break out all your shit. This is like, I'm having guests over and it's like, do I want to just put chips and pretzels out for them? Or am I going to fucking make shit? Am I making people wood-fired pizzas? And did I go to the market and buy some cheese? And is there like a salami prosciutto plate? Like, you're going all out. Yeah. And you're like, I have guests coming. Let's go. It's delicious. The pork secreto. Get the pork secreto. That guy who cooks. Oh, yeah. Made me some pork. Right before you passed out. so you like to are you okay with the over 39 and a half yeah yeah I am okay I really want to do the Pats plus 4 and a half though just as a statement go ahead you can you're the decider I'm just the consigliere okay the ringer 107 is presented by FanDuel Sportsbook all spreads are subject to change on this podcast in the playoffs we are 7-5 with the spreads the actual ringer 107 picks have not been as good because we've gotten too artsy fartsy first pick pass plus 4.5 I just think this is a 3 point game I think you're getting a point and a half on the pass side because of how they looked in the weather and because people aren't sure about Drake Mays shoulder I think Drake Mays shoulder is fine second bet we like these two props two guys to get 25 plus receiving yards. I just thought we could have probably parlayed these together. Well, we can do that. Can we do that? We have to do it for the show, but we can do it. No, but we could do that as the bet. America can do it. Matt Collins, 25 plus yards. That's minus 114. Anytime he's actually been healthy, which has been most of the season, he plays a lot of snaps. They need him for blocking and may go Sam. So that's one. Kenneth Walker 25 plus receiving yards at minus 114 for the wheel route we can do that one or we can do Lawrence getting a sack for Seattle at plus 120 isn't the Walker prop at 25 yards plus money because the regular prop is like 20 20 and a half or 21 and a half it's not all the way up to 25 receiving yards I just looked at it I thought you were giving us a little bit of a slight plus money bet. Receiving yards alternate. I'm looking at it right now. Yeah, 25 plus is plus 114. Yeah, plus. Yeah, plus. That's what I thought. My bad. Plus 114. And then, or Lauren Stack at plus 120. What do you like more? We have to choose? probably because I want to do Pats plus 10.5 with the over of 39.5. Okay. I'm going to choose wrong. I'm going to play both. You're listening to this show. Play both. I will choose for our... For Ringer 107. We'll play both of these, but for Ringer 107 we are doing Walker over 25. Okay. Those are our four. Pats plus 4.5. Pats, plus 10.5. Parlayed with the over 39.5. Hollins, 25 plus yards. Walker, 25 plus yards. Apologies to Trevor Lawrence getting a sack. Not Trevor Lawrence. Marcus Lawrence. Plus 120. Ramondre, 10 plus rushing yards first quarter. Over 36.5. We like that one. JSN, one reception each quarter. Plus 100. Love that one. I love the tie in the first half with the Patriots within the second half. 27-1. That's unfair. AJ Barner rushing TD 18-1 We both like both QBs To throw an interception And especially both QBs to throw an interception Together in the same game It's plus 200 Cup over 40 plus yards Plus 138 And then I like Remondre for most rushing yards plus 270 Because that would mean the Patriots have shut down The Seattle defense And just for the record I think the Patriots Are going to win the game And I think the final score Is going to be 24 to 20 New England Patriots By the way I also like that There's a bet with the Seahawks Kicker 7 plus points Yes I think that's around even But I thought that was a good one too Give us your Super Bowl pick while we're here Go ahead pick Seattle Be another media stooge No I'm a coward and it's going to be the same pick for the pregame show. I do have a whole bunch of props for that, and we're getting together. It's going to be great. Sunday morning, maybe all weekend long, it might be up. Sunday morning, ringer pregame show. Pregame show. I don't mind previewing this. I am playing the Patriots plus 10.5 parlayed with under 51.5. That is available at minus 122. if you want to get it closer to minus 110, exactly minus 110, under 50.5. But I want the possibility of a 51-point game in terms of a total coming in. I feel like 51 is a very fair number. So under 51.5, Pats plus 10.5. The Patriots haven't lost. They've only lost three games, and all three were by one score. This is not the game that I think they're going to lose by margin. So that is my favorite play. And I'm probably, I'm going to wait until Sunday. I'll tweet out something. But there's something with the Patriots plus eight and a half. Something lower with May's total. And then something with the over or the under that I think could be around plus 100. But I'm going to wait to see where the line goes. I think the line is going to drop. Why? I think it's going to end up at four. Oh, you think some Patriot money is coming? I do. Okay. I think people are waiting to see what the Drake Mays shoulder situation was. Well, let me ask you this. I'm going to give a gentle pushback. When the line was set, it was, you know, Sunday night after the conference championship games were done. It was at five and a half. It moved down to four and a half. Because it was too high. But what I'm saying is at the time that the line was set and moved in that direction, the Drake Mays shoulder stuff was not part of it. And the number hasn't moved at all over the course of this entire saga with the great, great. He usually moves around Friday. Okay. And speaking of Friday, you and I, you're coming up to Boston. I'm going to Boston. We're going to heat Celtics with Jacko. And then, uh, and my daughter, you get to have drinks with my daughter. She's the best. There'll be non-alcoholic drinks for her because she's not 21 yet. She's just sipping Diet Coke. Yeah, as far as we know, she's having a Coke. And then Saturday, we're going up to our alma mater, the College of the Holy Cross. Let's go. Where we ran about 500,000 pick and rolls. We did. In all kinds of two-on-two, three-on-three, and five-on-five games. We're going back because they are dedicating the court of the main basketball stadium to the one and only Bob Cousy, who we get to meet. And I can't wait. It's going to be awesome. All right, I'll see you in Boston House. Good to see you. Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo and Jack Wilson, everybody else on the ringer side. This was a really fun week. I'm going to be back on Sunday, live on Netflix, right after Super Bowl LX. And in the meantime, over the weekend, you can watch Ace Ventura, because that's going to be the next rewatchable. Bye, House. See you, buddy. Thanks, buddy. Must be 21-plus in President's Select States for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER. Visit rg-help.com. 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