Do you ever wish you could predict the future? Well, some scientists try to do that every year, forecasting when cherry blossom trees will bloom each spring. It's a wild guess, but there is some science involved in it. And there is a lot riding on the peak bloom forecast. Tourism, climate change models, and more. Listen to Shortwave on the NPR app, or wherever you get your podcasts to hear how scientists are predicting the future. You are listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour, the podcast that keeps you apprised of the latest and greatest in movies, TV, music, and more. If you're a pop culture junkie who's not following the show yet, we are recommending you fix that right now by following Pop Culture Happy Hour on your favorite podcast app. Now, on to the show. The Super Mario Galaxy movie is the ultimate piece of fan service. It's full of references to games, scenes, and sounds from various Nintendo properties, which helps make it both a successful brand extension and an exercise in nostalgia for anyone who's plugged in a Mario game. It's a sequel to the Super Mario Bros. movie, which made more than a billion dollars worldwide. It brings back Mario, Luigi, Princess Peach, and Bowser for a new outer space adventure that brings in other characters from the Nintendo Cinematic Universe, including Yoshi, Bowser Jr., and a few surprises. I'm Stephen Thompson, and today we are talking about the Super Mario Galaxy movie on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. Joining me today is Ronald Young Jr. He's the host of the film and television review podcast, Leaving the Theater. Hey, Ronald. Hello, Stephen Thompson. Also with us is Jordan Morris. He's a podcaster and the co-writer of the upcoming Marvel comic series, The Amazing Spider-Man Spider-Versity. Hey, Jordan. Hi. It's a me. Let's a go. One of us had to do it. If you had one minute and 30 seconds or however long it's been in the pool, Jordan is the winner. So it took decades for Nintendo's Super Mario Bros. video game franchise to produce a hit movie spinoff, but in 2023, they finally pulled it off with the Super Mario Bros. movie. That film starred Chris Pratt as Mario, Jack Black as Bowser, Anya Taylor-Joy as Princess Peach, and Charlie Day as Luigi. Now the cast returns for a new movie inspired by the Super Mario Galaxy games. In the Super Mario Galaxy movie, Princess Rosalina, played by Brie Larson, is kidnapped and dispatched to outer space. Bowser is at least tentatively reformed, but his journey is complicated by the arrival of his son, Bowser Jr., who's hell-bent on following in his father's nefarious footsteps. He's played by Benny Safdie. But the plot is honestly secondary to the many Nintendo references, which pop up everywhere on screen and in Brian Tyler's score. It's in theaters now. Jordan, I'm going to start with you. What did you think of the Super Mario Galaxy movie? Yeah, I think there are two ideal audiences for this movie. One is eight-year-olds. The second is guys who look like me. as a guy who looks like me, you do fall into at least one of those categories. I was having a blast the whole time. I know you can't see me. This is an audio program. So just to give a little sense of my vibe, it is someone who wants you to buy something or get out of their comic book store. I have played Nintendo basically my whole life. This movie, is it a movie or is it just a bunch of Easter eggs strung together? Who's to say? but I was yucking it up and laughing the whole time and it all worked on me. I understand that this movie has some weak points, some things that it does well, some things that it does not so well, but fun factor very high on this one for me. Okay. How about you, Ronald? I mean, Jordan nailed it because this movie is hard to critique because I'm having so much fun. I have such joy with the references and the way in which they're depicting the characters. I could just watch Donald Glover make sounds as Yoshi. I could have watched that for another 90 minutes. You may get your chance. I probably will, right? Everybody's getting a spinoff. Yeah, you might as well at this point. I mean, I feel like I walked into the movie. I wanted to have a good time. I had a good time. I will say that sets a ceiling on how air quote good this movie can be But I feel like because this movie did not burden itself with a bunch of backstory We weren in Brooklyn at all I don ever want to be in Brooklyn again for a Mario movie I only want to be in the Mushroom Kingdom or in the Mario Galaxy which this was It jumps us straight into there. We have mushrooms. We have fire. We have all of the things that I want. So I can't really ask for anything else. But I know that the drawback to criticizing a movie like this is that, of course there's problems but i just i don't this wasn't going to be citizen k disagree disagree i don't but i'm just saying i want it to be the best children's movie slash ronald and jordan referential movie that they could make and i feel like they did that they're probably gonna make another billion dollars i mean i do suspect they will probably make a billion dollars i suspect they realized somewhere along the way that they were going to make a billion whether this movie was any good or not. As long as they string together enough references. And this movie feeds you references on top of references on top of references while still giving you a basic plot for trying to save a princess. I mean, the plot is thin. Like, you're right. The plot is very, very thin. The plot is thin bordering on non-existent. And honestly, I mean, there are points in this film where for me as somebody who has always been more Mario adjacent than Mario immersed. I got a lot of references. My kids and my son in particular are Mario obsessives. You're more of a Crash Bandicoot guy? More of a Sonic guy. Oh, yeah, yeah, sure. There's Sonic guys. There's Mario guys. I mean, I will say, at one point I was working on a script around this. I was referring to visual and Sonic references and realized that I had to change that because it was going to sound like references to Sonic. Correct. Who is not in this film. But for me, as somebody who's always been more adjacent to the Nintendo universe than immersed in it, it left me cold. There were many times in this film where it felt like a playthrough more than a movie. I wanted jokes that were not just references to Mario properties. At the same time, several particularly visual gags referring to kind of especially vintage Nintendo made me laugh out loud. There were several points in this film, and I'm not going to spoil them, where you get some sort of visual callback or just callback in general to some kind of obscure Nintendo property from 1983. That completely worked on me. And honestly, like if you've played Super Smash Bros, you're going to get those references because Nintendo has always been endlessly self-referential and has always kind of kept those vintage characters alive. I mean, the Duck Hunt dog, as far to my knowledge, does not appear in this film. But if he did, you would know who he was. He's getting a Peacock series. It's actually a gritty reboot. I don't know if you saw that, Jordan. Yeah, very gritty. Came from the streets. Mads Mikkelsen, the voice of the dog. I can't wait to see it. Michael Shannon, the voice of one of the ducks. You degenerates would totally watch that show. 100%. I'm going to give it a shot. I'm going to watch a couple episodes, Steven. Don't be judgy. Not all in one weekend. Let's spread it out. Yeah. I think the thing you're saying is like one of the big strengths of these movies is like they look so cool. And the decision they made not to just try and replicate the look of the games, but the logic of the games, I think that is genius. like Mario gets a mushroom and he gets big because that's what happens to Mario. I think there's a more studio notey version of these where you get a 10 minute exposition dump on why the mushroom makes him big. Well, you see, there's parallel universes and there's enzymes. Yeah, we need people to stop and explain the lore. Yeah, right. Exactly. I think that's the bad version of this movie. And I think they did the smart thing of just saying, like, if you're in this movie, you know a mushroom makes Mario big. So when he gets it, he gets big. On with the movie. I like that about it. I think it's a pretty bold choice to just say this movie has video game logic and not to try and ground it in something. I think that's how you get the Bob Hoskins, John Leguizamo version that we got in the early 90s. Yes. Trying to adapt Mario logic to some sort of real world thing. You know, you just get this weirdo thing that's for nobody. And now you have a thing that is for your olds and Jordan Morris Yeah You know what though Stephen Like I feel like I want to back you up for a second I think you right I think there are criticisms I don like about this film already but I feel like yours are valid. To say that you walked in and said, oh, it's just all references and I'm only Mario adjacent. I am closer than Mario adjacent, meaning I've played a large chunk of Mario in my life. Right now, I'm exclusively playing Mario Kart. I have not played through Mario Galaxy. I've not played through Mario Galaxy 2. I don't play Paper Mario, any of those other ones. But I could recognize when a reference is happening based on the audience response to it. And I could say, ah, that's a thing and kind of see it or not see it. What I would say is there's like three levels of that. The first level is people like us who know Mario know what the reference is. The second level is people who are like a little bit Mario adjacent but not quite immersed in Mario like me where it's like I know maybe 70% of these references. Right. I got that reference. Yeah, but then there were people that recognized a certain weapon in the film. And I remember thinking, I don't know why people are reacting to that. I don't know what that is. And I just remember at that moment being like, oh, maybe I'm not as immersed in this as I thought until they show what the weapon does. And then I said, oh, that's why y'all all had the reaction that you had. I don't think it's unfair for you to say, who is this movie for? Is it for like the hardcore Jordan Morris's? You know what I mean? Wait, am I now shorthand for nerd? You said it yourself, Jordan. Honestly, Jordan, part of you, isn't that the dream? Isn't that the dream? I mean, I get it. You're not wrong. You are the proto nerd. I'll take it. Honestly, I'll take it. I think your concerns are valid, Stephen, is all I'm saying. They are, yeah. Ronald, can I ask you, before we go any further, can I ask you what criticisms of this movie are you hearing? Well, yes, because they're basically saying that it's not faithful enough to the source material. and I wouldn't be like, the source material is a plumber who goes to the mushroom kingdom to like eat a fire plant and now can shoot fireballs. We're not talking about Marvel here. This isn't like, we're not talking about like the origin of like who his father or mother was, any of that. We're just talking about how he throws the fireballs or why he throws the fireballs. But I feel like people were critiquing it and marking it down based on it not being close enough to the source material. To that, I'm like, no, you just weren't having enough joy in here. And those are people who are even more sticklers than the Jordan Morris's. You know what I mean? Even Jordan would be like, hey, that's a little too stringent for me, Fred. Get out of my comic book store for a different reason. We're closed. I'm going to lunch. Here's this good sequel choice I think they made. I think they realized that maybe Mario, this Mario, is maybe not the most interesting character in this world. I think this movie is maybe more of a Bowser movie or a Peach movie. I think they have the big journeys. They have the coolest set pieces. And I think the voice acting in this movie is all over the map. All over the map. I'm glad you brought this up. There's some great performances and some where you can hear the paycheck getting cashed. I think we would all agree. Jack Black as Bowser is so good. He's so funny. You know, he can just juice a line with natural Jack Blackness and it's great. One of the things of this movie, kind of part of Bowser's journey, is he has a little section of the movie where he's reformed and kind of trying not to be evil. Kind of a redemption arc for Bowser. Yeah. And I think they were really smart in giving the big story stuff to Bowser and Peach. And I think Peach is really cool in this movie. Enya Taylor-Joy is one of the going for it voice actors that's doing a nice job. And yeah, I don't know. I kind of like that they got so much story and Mario, you know, is there and he bops stuff. Mario is a cipher. He's just kind of – Right. You mostly see him just kind of going from place to place trying not to get killed. Yeah. And I think the sweaty stuff from the first movie is like trying to create a character and a journey for Mario. And I think they did an okay job. But like in this one, they're just like, yeah, I don't know. He shoots fire. It's fine. And then they kind of give the meatier stuff to Peach and Bowser, who I think are really fun to spend time with. Yeah, I mean, I think it's always tricky when you're trying to kind of graft personalities onto characters who are mostly ciphers in video games. I think that's always a challenge. And Bowser is always going to be a juicier character because Bowser is always playing to the rafters in both the games and in the movies Plus it Jack Black who can do this kind of stuff in his sleep I was actually surprised they didn try to create a new kind of viral Peaches song The music came on Oh, yeah. They set it up and then it stopped. You heard that like there's a point where the music comes and you think it's coming and then it just goes away. And I remember thinking, oh, that's I thought they were going to do it again and they didn't. Yeah. More musical numbers for Bowser in the next one. I think we all want that, right? Maybe. But I did appreciate fewer needle drops. This is not a very needle drop movie because I think that took people out of the first film and they clearly took that note. Yeah. And I think the music is great. And as you mentioned, like just full of little references to the game music again, you know, is it a soundtrack? Is it a collection of Easter eggs? Amazing. Yes. To say, but that's a great place to stash Easter eggs. And I do really want to shout out Brian Tyler's score because that is a source of a lot of jokes that I think the script maybe isn't strong enough to bother with. But like that really adds a layer of enjoyment for the eight year olds and Jordan Morris's. Yeah. I think for me, it's this movie is it's not quite Easter egg salad. Yeah. It's getting there. You know what I mean? It's like it's not far from it. But I think part of that is when we walk into a Mario movie, we should feel joy and happiness. Right. And we shouldn't think too much about the plot. Like, I feel like it was a bonus that we went to the Barbie movie and left having joy and happiness and thinking about the plot. Right. But I feel like with this, I don't necessarily want to be thinking about the Mario Galaxy plot later, which is why I say there's a ceiling to this. Even now when we're saying that the plot is thin, I guess what conversation would we be having if the plot was thicker? If there was more there, would we be like, oh my God, it's not just a video game movie. Mario goes and overthrows the Bowser Empire and we have to rise. I don't know if that's what we need for this. This film really made me think about infrastructure. Exactly. Capitalism. You know what I mean? I mean, at its core, it's about trauma. It's a movie about grief. We're really talking about grief here. You know what I mean? I don't think we necessarily need that. But I feel like from what we saw, this isn't even one of those things where I turned my brain off to enjoy the movie. My brain was active and I enjoyed the movie. And I think it was all the reasons you said. They gave me less Mario, more Luigi, threw in some Yoshi, which makes them all kind of one mega character where we're getting bits of all of them. More Toad, which is also nice. And then a lot of Peach and a lot of Bowser and more Bowser Jr. It's an ensemble movie. What more can you do in a sequel? I should say Benny Safdie. part of the 824 directing brothers. As Bowser Jr. As Bowser Jr. It is such a weird choice, and I don't know that he's the best choice for this. I will say he went for it. That was a person I would maybe expect to do the phone-in, one-take paycheck cash performance. Is there a better person for that out there? Perhaps. But I think he really went for it and was there, and I think he and Jack Black were a fun pair together. Yeah, and as you've already acknowledged, you have Donald Glover as Yoshi. Who just says Yoshi. I think we should also mention that that is... It's not a ton of line readings. Yes. You have Issa Rae turns up as Honey Queen. Oh yeah, she was funny. That was a funny little kind of like one scene, very chewy performance. Yeah. Were there any additions in this film that jumped out at you? I, for one, as an old guy, did appreciate the presence of Rob, a very early Nintendo robot. It was funny. I didn't know the Rob reference, but it was still funny. But it kind of brings me to my main point, which is if you have not seen the first one, you do not have to see the first one to watch this movie. All you have to do is know who Mario is. And I'd step a level down and say, know that Mario exists and you can watch this and they'll tell you everything you need to know. Know the title of the film before you see it. You have to know that those flickering images on the screen represent characters that the audience knows. Correct. That's it. That's the information you need to have going into this film. Entire primary. All right. Well, that brings us to the end of our show. Jordan Morris, Ronald Young Jr. Thanks so much for being here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, this is a blast. Thank you. This episode was produced by Hufza Fathima and Mike Katzif and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reed. Hello, Come In provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. If you are not already following the show, please do that right now. I'm Stephen Thompson, and we will see you all next time.
