A New Year's Repost! Zohran Mamdani (NYC's Brand New Mayor) Pops In

This is What Now with Trevor Noah. This episode is presented by Whole Foods Market. Eat well for less. How you doing? Congratulations by the way. What did you win? He won an all expenses paid trip to the Upper East Side. Call a number. What number may I owe you by the way? To sing it's 112. No way. Peaches and cream. They should sing at your inauguration. You know what's stuck in my head? Kanda. Kanda. Kanda. Yes, Kanda. That was a vibe man. That was me the whole... You don't even understand the whole... Who's that other guy? Hub. Where is he? Has he reached out to you? Yeah, I'm in touch with him. When you won, did H-U-D say you did it? We were like is it H-A-B or is it Hub? H-A-B. It is H-A-B right? Hub, sorry. I thought you were asking me this. No, I didn't know if it's... Is it Hub or is it H-A-B? Did Hub text you and go, how did you convince them? Because I'm sure Hub remembers rolling with you, trying to go to a radio station in Kampala, trying to get your song played. Then he was like you couldn't convince one station manager in Kampala. The whole of New York, how? You know the reason his name is Hub? Tell me. If we're off the record? Nothing is off the record. Don't say anything. Nothing is... Let me tell you the first thing. I'll give you a tip that I learned very early on with the Daily Show and everything. Nothing is off the record. You're never going to know. No, no. When you walk out the room, let me explain. This has always fascinated me in America. It's when I'll see people... Some footage will come out from 20 years ago or something. And it'll be something that was sort of behind the scenes. Sorry, sorry. So not condom, baby. Remember the ninjas who were dancing? That was the other video, though. For a while now. Yes, yes, that was that one. My regret is that my dad dressed up as a ninja for that video and the director of the video taped over that part. No! That little ninja stole the show, though. Yeah, there was one ninja in one of the... Too much swag for a ninja. I was like this one, this ninja is like... This is a black ninja. Oh, man. Tell me about this thing about America because I'm trying to remember as much as I can. So what I'm saying is I was always intrigued by how people would trust just like a handshake agreement everywhere. People were like, oh, this is off the record. But there's a camera rolling and the sound recording. And we were like, this is off the record. And then 10 years later or 5 years later, even a day later, the clip comes out. And then people were like, but there was behind the scenes. When you're wearing a microphone, when there's a microphone, when there's a camera, it's somewhere. It's somewhere. Remember, grab them by the pussy. I wasn't there, but... What are you saying? Do I remember? It's not on. I'm leaving this between you guys. The way he said, do you remember? You're right, actually. I shouldn't have done. I accept your apology. But my point is that was all off-camera. You know who also owes? That was all off-camera. I was like, I was like, how do we make this time special with you? And I thought to myself, you've got Zaron Mamdani on the podcast. But I was like, how many... You know how many tie-ins we have in our lives? Right? So born in Africa, born in Africa. Then you gandun and you're like, what's your name? I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, you gandun, right? Born in Uganda. Then I was like, do you know how many Ugandan I have in my life? In my head, I thought to myself, I was like, I collect Ugandan. But you can't say that. Don't say it like that. No, but I'm saying I wasn't gonna say it. This is off the record. Just taking us through the... I'm letting you know it was in my head. This is off the record, so you can't use it against me. So then I was like, I collect Ugandan. But you can't say it like that. I don't know how this happened. I have a lot of Ugandan friends in my life. You say it like it's a... Like a what? No, no, no. You made it sound like a problem, Zoran. Don't put that on me. See how it feels like. If someone puts you in a scene, you're too... You owe me an apology. I'll take my apology now. Which camera? Not to me. This is not about that. This is straight to me. Straight to me. I'll take my apology, Zoran. Apologize. Thank you. Thank you very much. Then I was like, I'm just gonna bring them all in. So I was like, my best friend who's Indian, my other best friend who's Ugandan and South African. They've even got microphones. They can just throw things in. Where in Uganda, by the way? Kampala. This was born. Where were you born in Kampala? Maghere. Okay. In Zambia Hospital. Oh, wow. Yeah. I moved to South Africa. Like you. I can hear you. And New York, like you. You guys hated that place, no? Which place? South Africa or Uganda? Two places before you were like... Uh-huh. It actually is a crazy story. Think about it. You guys both came from Uganda. I mean, you're not helpful to me because my parents are like, I mean, look at what Zoran's doing. I'm sorry, man. He's raised the ceiling for us. They thought you had a cheese. And now they're like, wait, you could have done this. This is what you could have done. How many people are... Eugene and I were talking about that the whole day. Like, I don't know. Like, there's got to be a section of people in your life who are still shocked at the idea of you being the mayor of, arguably, the most important cities in the world. H-A-B. Oh, H-A-B. Yeah, hub, not hub. Oh. Different hub. Hub. Think of hub. But there must be like, genuinely, just on like a personal level, there must be a ton of people out there who go... They just know you as Zoran. Yeah. Now you are Zoran Mamdani, the next mayor of New York City. Yeah. I mean, it's true not just in Kampala, but also here in New York City. I mean, there are people I would play on a rec soccer team with. And I was just reading this article today about a lot of their reactions and reflections. Do you still play with them? I haven't in a while. Why not? I saw you still have the skills, by the way. I was very impressed. Highly edited. No, no, no, you're lying. No, you can't edit those skills. You play... What position did you play? I have the classic journey of someone who played up top and then lost all of their speed and now plays a left back. That's right. I started my journey at lift back. You know when people say... You know when people say I fell off to your position? Yeah, I used to be good and then now I play where you play all the time. That's me, Trevor. That's me. I genuinely love that for you, man. How much has your life changed now? And I don't know if this is just anecdotal, but we were chatting with Ryan about this. It feels like your social media has gotten a little more serious now, which makes sense, but I don't know if that's just how it looks. Do you feel like a more serious shift in your life? I think... I don't feel burdened by it. I feel like sometimes that's implicit in the sense of the seriousness. You can both take it for the weight that it has and also not lose sight of the fact that it's an incredible opportunity. Right. And I think for me, the idea that it's my job to represent this city that I love and that my job means I get to speak to New Yorkers and go across the five boroughs and see people in their own lives, it's amazing. And then there's also parts of it that are absurd. I told my landlord I was moving out, and she was jokingly saying, make sure you clean up the apartment. If you don't, I know where you're moving to. I remember, everybody knows... Yeah, everybody knows everything about you. This is your life. Forevermore, this is your life. It'll never be the same after this. It won't. But I think that's what I love, though, is that you learn different parts of the city because of what your life is like now. I think for my wife and I, we... Going out at night, like going for a walk at night, it has a different kind of meaning now because it's where we can find a little bit of anonymity. And so you start to appreciate the city at an hour that you otherwise wouldn't have gone before because you didn't have to make that kind of a decision. Oh, okay. Do you have a night voice? I'm Zoran. You can't still be Zoran with a night voice. Woo! Mr. Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum to you. When the nights of New York get rough and Zoran can't do it, I'm here. Hey! Yes! That's it! Don't go anywhere because we got more what now after this. I'm Zoran. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Mayor Cardimum. Do you know what I mean? But you're just like a dude. You're just like a guy. You're just a guy. Yes. At night. He's got it on. Oh man. So let's talk about New York. Wait, hold on. Where are you from? South Africa. Where in South Africa? Born in Pretoria, but now living in China. Does this count against our time, by the way? Sorry. You know I love Eugene. It's sorry. I just want to know if this counts against our time. What did you say? Does this count against our time? No, before that. You know I love you Eugene. You finally got it. You finally got it. How many podcast episodes does this take? Thank you. You are loved. Thank you. You are seen. Thank you. You are enough. Is this what it took? Is this? Come on. Johannesburg, by way of Pretoria. Johannesburg, by way of Pretoria. Josie, stand up. Come on. You know this. You know this. So let's talk about New York. And then we'll go through your life. Sorry Eugene. Because now they're going to be like, you've run out of time. And then I'll be like, some of that time was taken by Eugene. You know what we can even do? We can edit you in saying things about your life. When you leave, you're just going to sit here and just be like, and then I will put that in. We'll call Ryan to double. And then we'll put a stunt double in. Ryan, you'll be Zoran's stunt double. And then you must just be like, yeah. But anyway, so let's. Sorry. Actually, run us through the process. Like what are the orders of business that you're doing right now? Like let's go from the shortest term. And let's build out as your job is made. So what are you doing right now? Right now is the transition period. So right now is the time where we are vetting applicants who are making hiring decisions. We're building out the team. So it's a bit of a strange period because everyone knows about the election. Everyone knows about January 1st. And then you have these two months in between. And so typically in these two months, it's a lot of kind of pomp and pageantry. We want to get ahead of January 1st. We want to make the decisions and the appointments in advance of January 1st. And what this also means is we want to build that team. So so far, we have made a few decisions of first deputy mayor, chief of staff, police commissioner, and then in the next few weeks, we have to start filling out additional top positions. What do you base that on when you're picking that? And the reason I ask this is because you're such a unique candidate, right? So if you had come through the regular pipeline of, oh, establishment, establishment, I almost feel like it would have been pre-picked for you in a weird way. It would have been who you knew. Yeah, because we always see that happen, right? It's like when Hillary Clinton was running, then you'd be like, the person she's going to pick is the person who used to be the person who used to be the person. You're like, oh, it's all like the same team. And then you just shift around who's where. You get what I'm saying? Yours is different though. So how do you pick and where do you pick? I think it's on an assessment of the work that people have done. And it's quite liberating actually to come into this position and not have to owe favors. You know, not be like... Unburdened. You're just actually making decisions based on do you think this person can do the job? How can they show you that they've already done the job? And you're looking for this combination of a fluency with what it looks like to work within government and an imagination that is unburdened by the difficulties of working within that government. Okay. So sometimes you would think that the more time you spend in government, the less ambitious you become about what you can do with it. But one of the reasons that I hired Dean Fulahan to be my first deputy mayor, he had served 47 years in working in government at the city and the state level, is the first time we sat down for Adani Chai at Kahua House, he told me about how he transformed. Adani Chai like the drink? Like the drink. Okay. You ever had Adani Chai? Just making sure. Ryan, have I had it? I'm assuming of it. I've had variations of it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. The closest Indian. The closest Indian. Yeah, but you went with me drinking. You owe your owes or an apology. He monitors my... You owe... I apologize. I accept. Shop. But yes, I've had Chai. Yes. Shop, shop. Shop, shop, shop, shop. So, yeah, so you were sitting down having Chai. And he talked about how he transformed the culture of the office of management and budget from a culture of no to a culture of how. And to me, that is an example of what we're trying to do with government, because when you'll say you have an ambitious policy proposal, you want to deliver universal childcare, you want to make buses fast and free, there will be so many people you can find who can tell you it's impossible to do that. Right. And the people you're actually looking for, not the ones who tell you it's easy, they're the ones who tell you it's difficult and here's how they're actually going to do it. So you're interviewing people for the job or you're picking people for the job, and you're trying to find a balance between the people who've shown that they can do it. But then I'm assuming you're also interviewing people who like you are new to a position, because that's the weird paradox, right? You've never been mayor of New York and now you're going to be mayor of New York. So how do you then judge a person who's never done the job? Like, what are you looking for in those people where you go, hey, you haven't done this, but I think you can. Vision. You're looking to hear from them about how they would actually transform the position that you're asking them about. There's a real temptation, especially when you're looking at a job of this scale and you're looking at, we're talking about positions that oversee the agencies of tens of thousands of people. There's a temptation to say, I'm just going to keep the trains running on time. But that's not enough. That's not enough in a city that's the most expensive in the United States of America. It's not enough in a city where one in four people live in poverty. You have to both be able to continue to operate things as they are and push them forward to delivering the city we deserve. Why do you think or do you think? Because I mean, I do, so I don't want to bias you, but like it feels like, particularly in America, maybe other parts of the world, it feels like conservatives have been pretty good at imagining and hoping. And then liberals or progressives or however people want it, you know, left side of the spectrum have sort of adopted this idea of like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, let's just keep it working well and you can't really change much. You can't, like, do you know how many interviews of yours I've watched where people say, Zora, now I agree with your politics. I love what you're saying, but I just don't know that we can do it. I just don't think you'll be able to get it done. I just don't, but not once have I seen somebody interviewing like Trump, for instance, on a right-wing platform go like, I don't know about that wall. I don't know, man. That's a big-ass wall. How are you gonna do it? Do you get what I'm saying? I do. I think it's, you have people, it seems like Republicans have a limitless imagination. Yeah. And as Democrats, we're constructing an ever-lowering ceiling of possibility. It's right here. Yeah. And we are robbing ourselves of ambition and imagination and we're telling people that their choice is between settling more sacrifice. And neither of these are enough. You have to have an affirmative vision of how life can be better than this, because this life already is suffocating people. I sometimes think it's because of the decline of religion on the left. Tell us more. I could, I'm looking, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. And you know, you will tell me. Wait, there's one thing I will tell you. Hello. Is what I'm wrong. I'm allowed to speak. Yeah. I like that you say that into a microphone. As if the microphone wasn't placed there for the possibility that you may speak. Am I allowed to speak? You literally look, you know what you look like right now? You look like somebody at those like town halls where they came from the crowd and then they don't know how anything works. Oh, and Chequaz is about to make an announcement. But let me say this point and then yes, let me say, so this is the thing. Before you say this point though. Okay. Did you steal this point from me? There's a distinct possibility. Okay, great. As friends, we all. No, no, continue, continue. As friends, I mean, I don't know how you are with your friends, but if my friend has a great idea. It's mine. It becomes a part of my thinking. This point might have come by way of a friendship tap away. That's exactly what it is. And when it was open, no one was taking responsibility for what's inside. Preach Eugene, preach. Tell people about these relationship tap aways. Instead of focusing on where the tap away ends up, you should focus on the fact that your friend took the meal that was inside the tap away. And enjoyed it. And enjoyed it. And shared it. He may return it with another meal inside. That's true. That's true. And some of the ideas that you have came from me. And some of that. Which idea of yours did I know? So the owner of the idea to me, the owner of the idea is not important. I think good ideas should live beyond people. But if you think about religion and how in most parts of the world, religion is declining, but it's declining in areas where people are particularly left leaning or progressive. I don't think religion is the decline. I think faith is the decline. The two have been combined for a long time. Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things that like faith requires of you is the ability to believe that this current state that you're in is not the end. There is a possibility that something can be greater. And even though you cannot see it, you believe that it can happen. It requires literally everything that you just said. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And I think that I've found over the course of the campaign that it's often in houses of worship where New Yorkers still have that trust. Really? Still have that faith. And it's by and large lost when it comes to politics. I mean, there are so many people who look at politics as irrelevant to their material struggles on a day-to-day basis. And part of that is because of their own experiences of believing in politicians who have not delivered and thinking that the rational decision has to take as much space as you can. How do you find, just real quick, I just wanna know, like, this is a difficult one, like with delivery. How do you think the public should judge a politician's delivery or lack thereof? Because some things that people set out to do won't be achieved because that's how life is. You aim for something and you fail, right? And then some are because of regulation or kickbacks or corporations or lobbyists. One part of it is because of a mud and a sludge. And the other one is because just life is like that. So how would you like people to judge you when you're in the mayorship and go, all right, Zoran, this thing you did achieve, so that's one side. But for the things that you didn't, like how would you want people to judge your failures, which are inevitable in anything that people do? We built a campaign around three policy commitments. Freezing the rent, for rent-stabilized tenants, making the slowest buses in America fast and free, delivering universal childcare. We have to deliver these things. Okay. And that's non-negotiable. To me, I think it's every day I'm going to wake up pushing these three things forward. And there's no question, this is incredibly difficult work. There are things you will try and you will fail. I think what frustrates so many is that there are so many things where it looks like someone is not even trying. They are just admitting defeat from the beginning. They're describing something as unrealistic or impossible. Madiba said it always seems impossible until it's done. Nelson Mandela, for those who don't know. Can I ask a question? You're going to say Nelson Mandela took that from you as well. I know how you were. I know the shit that you were going to say. He's going to be like, where did he get that idea? Where did he get that idea? Who was in prison with him? Mr. I'm the only person with ideas. Please share some with us, Dave. Before he says something, I'd like to say it probably wasn't his idea because he's been quiet. When you started speaking, he didn't say anything. The title was my idea. You know any good movies that have the same title, but it's a different movie? The title was my idea. Like the one where the... Oh, no, no, no. Okay, so now, Mayor-elect Mamdani, do you know your powers? You know, like, because you run for mayor, but at some point there's like, you have powers, certain powers. Do you know them all? Do they give you like a book? These are your actual powers. They don't give you a book. Do you... No, I'm saying, you know what I mean. No, I do. I have definitely an awareness of what power this job comes with. I'll give you an example on the three policies I was speaking of. The first one, freezing the rent for rent-stabilized tenants. City of 8.5 million people, about 2.5 million live in housing called rent-stabilized housing. Okay. And what does that mean? Just because I see people conflict, stabilized versus... Rent control is a very small proportion. We're talking about rent-stabilized. What does that mean? Rent-stabilized basically applies to half of all tenants in New York City. And it means that their rent, whether it will increase or stay the same, is determined by a board called the Rent Guidelines Board. The board is composed of nine appointees, all of whom are appointed by the mayor. So we have seen this board freeze the rent in the past. We have seen this board raise the rent like it has under Eric Adams, more than 12%. So when I talk about freezing the rent, I'm talking about this board composed of mayoral appointees finally giving tenants the relief that they deserve. Okay. So that's... Sorry, just to clear that up. So that is like... You know the question, because sometimes when it comes to politics, people will be like, you know, you vote the person in, then later on it's like, no, technically I didn't have that power. You know, you know that kind of... People try to obfuscate what their responsibility is. Yeah, exactly. The second and the third points that I brought up of making buses fast and free, delivering universal childcare, these are things that have to be done in partnership with Albany, state government. Right? The reason that it was at a core part of my campaign though, is any mayor with an agenda that is as ambitious as the crisis in front of them, will require state partnership. Okay. Because the city is effectively a creature of the state, especially after the 1970s fiscal crisis. So one of the most impressive achievements in city politics in the last few decades, was the creation of universal pre-K. That was done by the previous mayor, who... Mayor de Blasio, who ran on that as part of his agenda, needed Albany to get it done. There were all these articles written about how it was unrealistic. He went up against a governor who was very much opposed to it, and he won the funding for that because of the coalition that he built. Okay. And so my point here is that there are some things you can do directly yourself. There are other things you will have to build the coalition around you to do. But all of these things have to be part and parcel of it. Because I can tell you, to my mind, one of the most frustrating things you can tell a New Yorker when they call your district office is, oh, that's not actually my jurisdiction. Yeah, yeah. You should call this person, or you should call at that level. Being the mayor of this city comes with immense power, not to say total power at all, but immense power to at least start an agenda and then start to deliver that agenda when you build the coalition you need. That's where I see the possibility in these three things. So, okay, great. This is great. Wait, you know, when you say the thing about the book of power, it makes me think of like, I think you and I actually had this conversation. We talked about how... Mostly me giving ideas. We talked about how, again, I don't care where good ideas come from. No. You know? My idea is people shouldn't worry about their egos. Yeah. But no, but we had this conversation about... Yeah, and I'm joking. We talked about... We're talking about Trump. And we literally... We joked and we said, it feels like Trump was the first person to read that book. Do you know what I mean? Because there's so many things... No, I can't be done. No, because there's so many things where Trump is doing it, and then people are like, can a president do that? And then it's like, oh, yeah, he can. And you're like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We didn't know that you could do all of these things. And I think that's sort of what the question is. Yeah, and I think it's... Look, we have this transition. We have four incredible co-chairs. One of them is Lena Khan. And Lena Khan... Can we get Lena Khan on the show, by the way? She's one of my favorite human beings. No, can I tell you? I will have a separate conversation about this. I'll tell you why. I hate... Let's take away from our time. Yes, but it'll add time value. It'll add value. No, I'll tell you why. Lena Khan, like you see on a wall of superheroes, the way I hate monopolies, mergers, acquisitions, and you know this as my friends, Orlando Pirates. I don't think that counts. What about the Orlando Pirates? What about the... Sorry, sorry. But thank you for the counting things he hates. What? Mergers, acquisitions, Kaiser cheese. Oh, man. What are you doing? You broke my brain like Orlando Pirates. Cortas with no Russian. No. Anyway, I'll tell you, she's here because I think she taps... She's amazing. And I think that's maybe why you picked her part of it is, she taps into the understanding that not everything is happening on the surface the way you think it is. And then you go like, why did that happen? Why did that happen? And she's like, oh, let me show you where it started. Like she's at the origin story of a lot of these things. And she spoke about that when she first got to her job, she felt like she was experiencing the great forgetting where she got there and it felt as if so many people working in government had forgotten the tools they had at their disposal. You see, that's what I'm talking about. And nailed it. And I think we... It's... There is a need for imagination for the new kinds of policies and proposals you put forward and also an ambition to use your existing set of tools to actually transform people's lives. Don't go anywhere, because we got more what now after this. Do you think people... Can I just one more question? Just sorry, sorry, really. This is now. He's not sorry. Now, okay, I'm not... Okay, one more question. Now, it just to wrap up the powers thing, do we all agree as New Yorkers that ambulances are too loud? Is it something... Oh, I feel like this is... This is literally turned into those... It really has turned into a town hall. No, I'm just... No, your posture, can I tell you? I always look at when I watch town halls and people come up and do this thing. I'm always like, who are these people? I didn't know I'm friends with one of them. Okay. The posture, the everything, just like, can we all agree that ambulances are too loud? Also, speaking of powers. Yes, exactly. Here's my pet issue. But, yes, he's like... Look, we're talking about mergers and agri-ditions. I like how Dave gave himself citizenship. As citizen. Hey, hey, you kind of... Wait, wait, wait, Dave, Dave, wait. No, but actually, I do like this question because I think, you know why? As I get it, macro versus micro, I think. These are like the nice things to try and understand. I'll interpret for you, yes. So now, one, we all agree that ambulances are too loud. Way too loud in New York. Way too loud. I agree. If they're too loud, they're way too loud. One ambulance and the entire Manhattan knows that... Yes, I agree. You don't even know. You don't even know if they're about to lose their lives. You don't know. You don't even know if there's too much of a disadvantage for you. No, Eugene, Eugene. Tell you. No, let me explain. Let me explain. Eugene, wait, let me explain. This is what Dave means, really. You don't even know where it's coming from. It's pointless at some point. It knows where it's going. That's the most important part. Nobody knows where it's coming. But anyway, finish asking it. Cool. So now, would you say that in some way or form, the citizens of New York both documented and document... I'm not even joking because you're trying to expose me. But I'm... Praying. Praying. Would you say that it is... That you pledge to have a like some sort of database, not a database, but a link, so that we can see what's inside the ambulance? This is Gestapo, yeah. Oh, it's going down. Oh, because, because... I never knew where the next... No, no. ...Chentris was going. Oh, where the next time? Welcome to Dave. Welcome to Dave. You just summed up Dave. If there was a review of Dave... So if it's too loud, you want to know what's happening inside? Can I tell you? No, can I tell you? You want to know... I think what he wants to know is... Is it justified being loud? Yes. Has the person stubbed their toes? Yes. Or is this person in cardiac arrest? Yes, that's what I mean. Are you asking... Oh, you decreased the volume. Do you know what I mean? Not everybody is having an emergency the way these ambulances tell us. That's not possible. So now... Do you regret being mayor yet? I'm saying... This is your life. You know this is your life, right? In your book of powers. You're going to be having dinner. You're going to be having dinner and this guy's coming up. I know too many guys like this anyway. No. Now I'm the mayor. I still know this guy. No, because you have these... You have these big ideas. That's what I'm saying. In your book, I'm sure you can say that and most people will agree. Most people will know. No, no, no, because we all agree. At some point, we're going to need ambulance. Small injuries, small sirens. Small siren? Big injury, big siren. Can't... No, no, no. On a real though, can you... Like, are those the kinds of things that you actually can do unilaterally? Or do you need to like... Is there a board? Is there... No, I think there's a... On this question? Yeah, I mean it. I mean, I know it sounds crazy. I have no idea. Okay, okay. What about... No, you don't know what's in the book. I am not going to sit here and pretend that I even know the process which you would consider trading volume for... No. Severity of injuries. No, you don't know what's in the book. That's the thing. Because it could be... Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. It could be in the book. Thank you for your time, sir. Thank you. Thank you. As you can see, so Dave definitely lives in New York and experiences. This is actually what I love about it, is like as you're building up in this transition and you're getting ready for these things, how do you find... So you have these three big policies that you've run on. You've gone rent. We are aiming to freeze the rent, especially where we can immediately and then work on helping other people. The second thing you're going with is the buses. They need to be faster. They need to be free. And the third thing you're working on is the childcare. And then number four is Dave. Number four is Dave, right? So, I mean, you've made it. You've made it. You've made it. You've made it. At this point? Yeah. It's the only way out. So my question is, when you're in that, is there a system for you as mayor to go, these things are small but annoying and they actually make a difference in people's lives? Like the sound of sirens or for instance, or how do you find those balances? I think this is... It's not just that government has often said, a crisis is too big, we cannot tackle it. It's also that government has said, this issue is too small, it's not worth our time. And as much as we laugh, issues of this scale, whether it be the sound of something or the noise of something, or these to New Yorkers are examples of a city that's not working for them. Yes, it is actually. Whatever it may be. And you need to be able to prove that your city government takes it seriously. Because wherever you are losing people's faith, losing people's trust, that's also where you're losing their faith and trust in an ambitious agenda. I was at a town hall with an incoming city council member, his name is Ty, at Rochdale Village in Southeast Queens. And an older woman got up and she had a question for me. She said, will you honor a promise that was made to be multiple mayoral administrations ago? And I was like, what is this promise going to be? And she said, they promised to put a speed bump at this corner and it hadn't been done for more than a decade. And I was thinking to myself, how could I ask her to believe in the possibility of delivering universal childcare if the same government couldn't even get her a speed bump that they had promised that they had promised more than a decade ago? Because when you betray that promise, you are telling that New Yorker that they should not look to city government as something or someone that could deliver on their needs. And they start to turn away. And then when you ask yourself, why aren't more people voting? Why aren't more people invested? Why aren't more people engaged? A lot of it is based on experiences like this. We're the best that they can hope for from their city government is neglect or ignorance. And we have to win people back through the power of example. You can't finger wag your way to getting someone invested in the politics of their own city. You have to prove it to them. You have to prove that you were right to believe. And here we are actually delivering it. I don't know if I can prove it to you, Dave, but can I say, although I joined the mob in laughing at you, I will say though, this is an issue that I fully stand. Which part of the issue? No, no, the sound. Transparent ambulances or silent ones. I'll tell you why. No, I'll tell you why. It's an idea that I've had that maybe I got from you. And this idea has always been, this idea has always been, there's a disconnect in politics and in the management of cities, countries, states, et cetera, where there are the things that will dramatically change your life, that are actual things that you need to happen. And then there are things that make you think your life is getting better or getting worse, but they aren't actually. And it's a strange thing that people have in society. You know what I mean? Some things can make people feel safer. Some things actually make you safer. Some things can make you feel like a city's functioning. Some things actually make it function. And I'm always intrigued. Perception and reality. I'm always intrigued around like how a politician manages that when you get into that position, how do you manage that perception? So sirens is a good one. When you live in a city where you constantly hear sirens, it seems like something's always going wrong. Recently, when I traveled to London, Amsterdam, all these, I was I was shocked at how quiet it was. But it took me a while to realize something was like missing. And then you're like, wait, it's quiet. And the quiet just makes you feel like, where's Dave? Man, can I tell you something? Can I tell you something? Your timing is impeccable. This Uganda on Uganda violence. I'm here for it. I'm here for it. Why do you want to dictate it as I did it? All I'm waiting for Zoran to turn and do is look at you and be like, why are you Dave? Why are you Dave? Are you not Dave? Okay, so help me understand why you chose the three. The freezing the rent, that I mean, I hope is self-explanatory to everybody. The cost of living is, it's unsustainable in New York and in many places in the world. If people cannot afford to live, then they don't even want to be part of that society. The buses, help me understand why faster buses and free buses. So these are the slowest buses in America. Okay, like what do you mean by that? Like the speed that they go. We're talking about an average speed in certain parts of Manhattan, around five miles an hour. That's walking fast. You can beat the bus when you want. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what we see is that more than a million New Yorkers ride the bus. Okay. It costs $2.90. That is out of reach for one in five New Yorkers. So when you make the bus free, you not only provide economic relief where you ensure that it's universally accessible, you also actually make it safer. We did this at the state legislature. I've been a state assembly member for a few years. And I worked with Mike Gianaris, a state senator. We made five bus routes free in New York City. When we made those bus routes free after a year, assaults on bus drivers dropped by 38.9%. On the bus drivers? On the bus drivers. Because unlike the train, the act of fare collection on the bus happens on the bus. It's their job, yeah. And bus drivers and unions have shared anecdotes that are totally that about 50% of assaults happen around the fare box. So when you eliminate the fare box, you make for a safer experience for the bus driver, for everyone on the bus. And what's fascinating back to the point you were just making about perception and reality is when they made a few bus routes free in Boston under Mayor Wu's leadership, they found that even more than the safety that was provided is that people felt safer to even hire to go in that. We saw this as well in Kansas City to varying extents in different parts of the country. And it has the economic benefits, has the public safety benefits, and even has benefits of bringing people who would otherwise be driving their car or taking a taxi and getting them on the bus. More than 10% of the new riders on these five bus routes were otherwise going to use private. So it becomes economically viable for them. And I think what it comes back to is that if you pair the making of the bus free, which then also enables you to use any door to board, you don't have to wait behind anyone who's looking for their metro car or used to be looking for their coins, you can just board and exit. You speed up the time at each bus stop. In Boston, you cut the dwell time by 23%. So there's a speed that's incorporated in this. And then the other part of this is that the city owns its own streets. The city can speed up a bus through the infrastructure it chooses to build or not to build. Got it. Bus lanes, busways, bus rapid transit. It's a political choice that that bus is traveling at five miles an hour. You can make that bus be the most obvious way to get around the city. Right now, so often New Yorkers are taking the bus because they have no other option. We want it to be such that it is the option you choose. So that's what it comes back to. And the other part of this is, this is disproportionately hurting working class New Yorkers. Because a bus rider, the average salary of a bus rider is around $30,000 a year. We are talking about the most working class New Yorkers who are dealing with some of the most substandard public transit. And it's a political choice. It feels like New York has like many cities in the world fallen as the trap of fixing what needs to be fixed for the wealthy. And then sort of ignoring or pushing aside the problems that affect the poor. I mean, I think about, I think about when you fly. Yeah. We have made it such a difficult experience to go through TSA. That there's now a financial incentive to sign up for a separate program that can move you through it quicker. Yeah. I mean, we have monetized the dysfunction of flying. Do you think that's by design though? I'm gonna leave that to you and Dave, man. Yeah, convenience is up for sale. Absolutely. Convenience has been up for sale for the long time. But it's absurd to me that you should have to pay for the experience that you should already be getting. You already paid. This is anyway. This is a real question about the... I thought you said normal questions. No, no, oh, on that topic. Oh, on that topic. This is a real question on the buses. How come you didn't go with like the people who were paying? Because some people not don't mind paying, but they can pay in a way to keep the revenue coming in and then people who can't pay... This is a good question. Can't pay, then they have a way of like, okay. So this is in effect a question about universal approach versus means tested. Means tested would say if you make a certain income or less, then you should be eligible for a reduction in your fare or the elimination of your fare. There already exists a program in New York City called Fair Fairs, where if you make a certain amount of money or less, you'll get a reduced fare. The MTA, by last estimate, when they were testifying at the state, they said about 40% of eligible New Yorkers are enrolled. The question was asked them, what would success look like? They said 50%. So success looks like leaving 50% of your eligible population out of your program. And so whenever you create a means tested program, you are comfortable to some level with saying goodbye to people who would be eligible for it because you know the hurdles of creating a bureaucratic system of proving eligibility, of applying, of receiving, and then of using. Versus if you make something free at point of use, you capture the entirety of everyone you're looking to serve. And this is the difference, is that the safety of that bus, the efficacy of how it is moving, the question of the doors, all of this is tied to the elimination of fare at once. And when we made those five bus routes free, we found the most significant increase in riders was among New Yorkers making $28,000 a year or less. They're already eligible for fare fares. But less than 20% of them were enrolled in that program. So that to me is, if you are serious about reaching everyone, then here's how you do it. You know what it's similar to funny enough? It's similar to what I feel like they're doing with voting in America, right? They are systematically making it harder and harder for people to vote. But basing it like the premise is, no, no, no, it's super easy to vote. All you have to do is, all you have to do is, all you have to do is, all you have to do is, all you have to do, you know what I mean? It's like get this ID, but this new type of ID needs this type of identification. And then it's like, well, which ones do you accept? Oh, your gun one, oh, we take the gun one, NRA will work. Oh, but this one doesn't work. And this one, do you know what I mean? It should be five minutes. And then to your point, yeah. And more importantly, it's the trick of saying, it's free, free to enter, but then the process of coming in is not really free. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. It's like the trick of the interns, like to be an intern, you've got to be a pretty rich kid. I work for free. Yeah, but do you know how much you have to earn to work for free? And I feel like that's what you're tapping into with the childcare thing is that is that a similar, well, no, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, but there's a similar principle is like, with the childcare thing, what do you think? I mean, it seems obvious. Some people would go, and we've seen discussions around this, privatization and said, they'd be like, oh, the private sector should be dealing with this. Why is the government getting involved in childcare? Shouldn't just companies provide childcare? Why do you think it's important for the state to step in, for the city to step in? Well, look, when the city and the state doesn't step in, companies have to put forward childcare benefits, childcare services. Why should that be a company's job? You are seeing companies having to provide a service that should be provided by the city and the state. I mean, quite literally, you have companies that have childcare on site, you have companies that are giving annual stipends for paying towards childcare. The point of this is that if we do not treat this as the social crisis that it is, it's we are going to pass this cost on. And this is actually a cost that we should be bearing at a city and a state level. And the average cost of childcare in New York City for one child is $22,500. But that's close to what you just said, the average earning was for, I mean, that's insane. It is cheaper to send that same child 18 years later to the City University of New York than it is to find childcare for them. That's how expensive it is. And we often talk about delivering universal childcare in the language of how much it will cost and how difficult it will be, as if it doesn't already cost this city and state an immense amount today. In 2022, we lost $23 billion in economic activity. Because of the absence of universal childcare. Explain how? Because you had people leaving this city, leaving the state. After housing, the number one thing driving people out of the city, childcare. They're going anywhere they can find childcare for cheaper. And it's not just people whose kids they can't get childcare for. It's also childcare workers who cannot live off of the average salary at a home-based setting of $10 an hour. People cannot live off of that. And we keep asking ourselves, why is it so hard to raise a family in the city? It's like, look at the cost. I was sitting on the M57, the slowest bus in Manhattan, a few months ago, and a city worker was seated behind me. She started speaking to me about how she had two kids. The only reason she could make it work here was because her 84-year-old grandmother would take care of those kids every single day. And she told me that when her 84-year-old grandmother has to go to the doctor or she feels sick, the only option this mother has is that she has to take a sick day from work. Because she can't afford childcare. We are pushing people out of the city. And frankly, people are feeling it when they're making 40K a year, they're feeling it when they're making 100K, they're feeling it at 200K, because $22,500 is an immense amount of money after tax. And we could be providing this. So- There's a real question, real question. We're gonna run out of time. No, we have no real question. You choose your last question well. Yes, based on childcare, what is this gonna look like practically? Do you know what I mean? What does it mean? Zoran's gonna come look after your child. No man, come on, you see, you are not wasting my time. What is this? There's never a waste of time when a joke is in... Can we all agree? Never. Thank you Eugene. Never, never, never. Jokes are never a waste of time. In fact, never. Anyway, put it in. Do you know what is this? What is this like practically? That's a great question by the way. You will see a system that is building on the infrastructure we already have. And what that means is it's going to be something built out that includes both center-based care and home-based care. There are many New Yorkers who feel more comfortable sending their child to a neighbor who is providing childcare for a few children on that block. There are other New Yorkers who prefer sending their child to a childcare center. And we can look at Universal Pre-K, which we were talking about earlier, as a model for both how it took an immense cost burden off of the backs of working families, but also how it stood up an entire infrastructure. Because this is the thing that's also missing in so much of city government is a sense of urgency, of actually being able to scale something up. And that to me, the commitment we've made, delivering childcare for New Yorkers from ages five down to six weeks of age. And so what we have right now is we have Universal Pre-K. We have 3K in New York City, but it is broken. The first order of business is to fix 3K. And then we look at 2K, we look at 1K, we look at delivering childcare for children right now that if their parents don't have the money or they don't have a family member, we see that those parents often leave. I mean, 80% of New Yorkers with children under five cannot afford childcare in this city. 80% 80% I found myself wondering about labels a lot and how they limit our ability to think. You know, because your name, synonymous socialist, and then people are trying to be disparaging, communist, but you see a lot of the socios trying to turn America into, this guy doesn't like, and yet every time I hear you speak, you talk about how much money the thing will generate for businesses, for people themselves. When you think of how people process the label of socialism or the idea behind it, do you think they themselves have an understanding of what it actually means versus what they've been told it means? Do you get what I'm saying? Yeah, I think as a Muslim socialist, I'm familiar with bad PR. Good old MS. You know those damn MS. It's a long journey to explain, but I think many people have caricatures in their head as to what it means. I often turn to Dr. King to describe socialism. He said, call it democracy or call it democratic socialism. There must be a better distribution of wealth for all of God's children in this country. It comes back to dignity, it comes back to ensuring that whatever you need to live a dignified life, that you have that. You should not be priced out of a necessity. We're not talking about want or like, we're talking about need. You should not be priced out of being able to have a home to call your own, of being able to send your kid to school, being able to ride the bus. And I've found actually that when you're speaking to New Yorkers one to one, they've actually had far fewer questions of how I describe my politics and far more of does my politics include them? Are there struggles part of my focus? And I've found that there are many people who might describe themselves in a different way, but when I speak about what this would mean for New York City, they start to see themselves in that vision. And that's I think the key of this is, how is this a politics that actually reflects the struggles of working people? Do you think your politics and your campaign connected with people because you actually connected with people? I think a lot of it also had to do with the incredible team I had around me. To be honest, someone was asking me the other day about people trying to make videos the way that we made videos. And I was saying that part of it, it misunderstands that it's not as much who's in front of the camera, it's also who's behind the camera. You can see a distinct moment in the campaign when I stopped making the videos. It's the moment when the campaign became legitimate. Right, right. And I think that losing sight of the collective and thinking it's all about the individual, it means you lose sight of how this campaign was built. All right, your team is telling us we gotta wrap up. Would you promise- They didn't even talk about Mzanzee. That's what I'm saying, do you promise to come back? Make, give me one, that's the only promise I want. Dave wants ambulances. I promise to come back. You promise to come back. You don't have to by the way, you can say no. And then I don't- Look. Then I don't have the promise. This is my only way. No, no, no, then I don't have the promise. And I don't mind. I give you the promise. Then I'll take three minutes and then I'll let you go. Here's a few things that I wanted to talk about. Yeah, go, will we? I wanna talk about Cape Town. Yeah. They really have to go like right now. Your team is like, right. What did you wanna talk about? Cape Town and- Cape Town and- Casper and your vest. Open the door and come get him, Casper and your vest. I wanted to talk about Cuesta. Wow, this guy's deep in- This guy's deep in South Africa. I wanna talk about Ricky Rick. This guy, rest in peace, Ricky Rick, man. Boss Zonke. Yeah? I love that song. You have to come back. You know what we do. We background how we can get Major League DJs on Spotify. You're not gonna do- Because I have listened to Slizer Sochi on YouTube. This guy, we're gonna do a trilogy. This was just the policy stuff. Part two, we're gonna do Zoran's life stuff. Also, we're having the elections of May of Joebeck next year. Part three, just South Africa. If you are available. Thank you, thank you. Thanks for taking him. It'd be so fun if you just got like a dinner reservation. That would be so blazing. No, no, no, I'm just saying it would be funny. Anything for a joke. I don't care if you take him- If this ends in a joke. If Zoran's like, I gotta go, I gotta go, I gotta go. And then he gets in like for two, table for two, please. And then he gets in. Me and Shabalala. Yo, man. Zoran Mamdani, thank you very much. Take your man away. To be continued. We've never ended a podcast like that. No, never. To be continued. Part one. This episode is presented by Whole Foods Market. Whole Foods Market has everything you need for the holidays. Whether you're a guest or hosting the big dinner. Whole Foods Market has convenient and cost friendly finds that'll delight everyone at your table. Plus, great gift ideas, all of which follow the Whole Foods Market's strict ingredient standards. Shop for everything you need at Whole Foods Market, your holiday headquarters. What Now with Trevanoa is produced by Day Zero Productions in partnership with SiriusXM. The show is executive produced by Trevanoa, Sanazia Min and Jess Hackel. Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robiu. Music, mixing and mastering by Hannes Brown. Random Other Stuff by Ryan Parduth. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of What Now.