L.A. Reid | LaFace Records

Hey, I'm LA Reed and you're watching on that note, which I'm stuck with. A lot of people in even face, we're talking to face like about a year ago. And he didn't realize that we wrote seven out of those ten records on the first album. Well, everybody thought that everybody else was responsible for it. But what people don't understand, and a lot of people, I saw one comment. And I'm a directed to this particular person who said, you guys are trying to downplay Dallas's efforts. What Dallas Austin did, by saying that he didn't do this, Nat, and the third. And the truth is that's not true. Like what we were doing was we were highlighting hours. Yes. Because a lot of people, which is your responsibility. Yeah. And in my right, you know, it's one of those things where it's like, a lot of people give others credit, even LA faced the whole thing. Is there responsible for what? And you are. And we would never engage that. No, we made a contribution. We're not responsible for. And that's the difference, right? You, you're responsible. You and your brothers were responsible. And people made contributions. Maybe meaningful contributions at times, but you're still, you're responsible. But the thing about it is, when you work with, I don't know, there's something about people that just decide that when an artist works with someone, that is that someone that made the magic. Yeah. And not that artist. And it's pretty foolish because it's when you sing, like I get chills. So I know where the magic's coming from. And whoever gives you the script, so to speak, God bless them. But it's how you sing it. Right. It's it's it's tandem. We go in tandem. Yeah. Like, you know, we, we help each other. Right. And, and of course, from a semantic standpoint, if there's a producer of the year award, you guys get it. But it's all good. We applaud. Right. Because you deserve it. You know, I mean, like that's what you're supposed to get. That's what you face, Darryl. Right. What, you know, producers and for us, the song that practically changed our lives. Yeah. We were doing okay. We were doing good. Five million, your life was already changed. Yes. But, but let's, let's keep it up up. That song changed it even further. It cranked it up a notch. And, and we always give credit what credit is due. And so let me say on the record, Dallas Austin was an integral part in creating what people know as boys, boys to men. He helped create the sound. He did. And the first time I ever heard boys to men, it was so interesting. I was in a studio in LA. And Gerald Buzz be called me. He said, you have to hear something. And he plays Motown Philly over the phone. That was my first time hearing it. And I was like, he knew it. He knew how special it was. And it's funny because we didn't have that kind of relationship. So it was an odd phone call. Because I'm interesting. But Gerald was like the senior, he was like the executives executive. You know, he's really a great executive. And I didn't quite understand the call because he didn't ask me to work. He just said, listen to this. And, you know, that's interesting because, and I've said this, I've had this conversation before, is that when we first met Gerald, it was in the four seasons in Philadelphia, Ben Franklin Parkway. And Ben, I guess, told him about us. So he flew out for us, the president, right? Got a room. And four of us met him there. And we sang him some stuff, I could tell. I think we sang Mary by take six and, you know, some other stuff. And he's closing his eyes like he normally does. He's listening. And we were like, what do you think? And he opened his eyes. He said, well, I'm definitely going to sign you. He said, but I don't know what to do with you. Be honest. Wow. He didn't know what to do with us. He said, she was like, so what do you want us to do? He was like, well, he said, we're just putting the studio and we'll figure it out. We'll see what comes out of this. And that's how he put Dallas with us. And that's how we just kind of, we were just like this rag tag group of Negroes in the studio in Philadelphia. Right. And we were just creating some music that no one expected us to create alongside Biv being the other creative arm given us guidance and given us ideas. But for the most part, please don't go. Was written by Nate. Okay. Along. Wow. Lonely heart. Nate. Along. Whoa. Uh, Sampin with Dallas Austin's track lyrics written by Nate and Sean. Right. Motown Philly idea by Biv, track by Dallas lyrics created by Nate and Sean. Wow. So these are concepts. Right. I love that. And ideas that we created together. Right. Collaboratively. Yeah. And it wasn't because of somebody that it wasn't a one entity production. We all put this together and everybody helped each other out and made each other look like rock star. Sure did. My God. You know what I'm saying? Everybody you mentioned, everybody you mentioned is genius in their own right. Right. And by the way, I'm not just doing this like just to, you know, give everybody their flowers and, but I really appreciate all of those people. I like Nate is incredible. Yeah. Does Nate start every song? Like, well, vocally. What's funny is. He used to right. We, well, yeah, but that was just kind of by osmosis. The way he sounded was just the perfect way to open and I don't know. Well, you got to understand it. We grew up in high school together. So vocally, we understood each other's, like I could you say, superpower. Right. So we never got in each other's way. Like we understood Nate does that. I need does that. Right. He understands. So Nate, because he was always the low tone, it always creatively felt to us the right thing that he starts off. He's the base, the foundation. Right. I'm in the middle. Right. Because I kind of carry the next step up. You took it from the calm. You lead, you lead us into the storm. Right. And that's pretty much how it worked for us. Because from that standpoint, and after that, it became, you can say, I signature. I love that. Hey, wait, because we, this is, this is different. We started this off. We started, yeah, we started this podcast off a little different. Y'all actually walked in on our conversation. So welcome everybody to an episode of on that note. This is the place where we speak a language we all understand. And that is music. Today is a person that understands music very well. He's made a living out of understanding music very, very well. A Cincinnati Ohio native, right? Correct. That's right. Who began his music career there as a drummer and musician before later relocating to Atlanta Georgia, where alongside his bandmate, turned business partner, Kenneth Babyface Edmunds, all founded one of the most significant, most successful and most soulful record labels ever created in music history. LaFace records. His musical prowess and his vision helped shape Atlanta into a global music capital. It housed a few known names that you may know, like outcast, goodie mob, TLC, Erscher, Pink, Donnell Jones, Tony Braxton, and many others. Typically these artists shaped 90s and 2000s R&B hip hop and pop with Atlanta emerging as a dominant creative hub and a mass estimated sales clocking in at over 200 million records worldwide. Today he's still making dreams come true for today's new breed of artists with his new label and new label partner, Mr. Usher Raymond. We could go on and on with all his accolades, but we do have a show to do. So he is a husband and a father, a visionary, a producer, a hit maker, a star creator, a businessman, an executive, a CEO, forefather of the Atlanta sound and fellow Libra. No, I'm a Gemini man. You're a Gemini. Yeah, my wife's a Libra. Oh, I got that mixed up. Yeah, yeah, that's so good. He's a Gemini. He's a Libra. Yeah, I'm a Libra. But that's the connect. Yeah, he's Nate. That's the connect. Yeah, that is the connect. That's the Gemini's, yeah, Gemini's Libra's getting along quite well. Okay. But it's all good. Ladies and gentlemen, please give it up for Antonio LeVern Reed, aka Ellie Reed. Thank you, Joe. Wait, where did you get LeVern from? Well, that's your name. That's a girl name. That's a girl name. That's a girl name. My name is Mark Weiss in May, RQ. And where the hell does El LeVern come from? I don't know, but surely. Damn, you chat, it's GPT. That is very upfront about we can be wrong. Yeah. So give it up for Antonio Marquise Reed, got damage? I love this. I love it. I love it. How you feeling, man? Good. Good. I'm happy to do this. Happy to be here. I've been watching your show for a while. And I love, I wish I could sing, man, because I really love when you pull the guitar out. Oh, man. And sing with people. I mean, I just can't sing. We had our first rejection. Yeah, we got our first reject, which is cool. You got your first rejection? What's that mean? Well, we'll tell you later. But anyway, that's like the high point for me and I can't sing. It's okay. I don't get to harmonize with you, but I'll try my best to sing for you. There we go. There you go. Now I'm happy. Yeah, yeah. We'll make that happen later. But thank you very much for just being here, man. I got to already have a feeling that this is going to be kind of a different conversation, as you guys just noticed how we opened up. I normally welcome everybody, but you guys walked in on an already impassioned talk about the thing that we love so much, which is music. We might have a part three, four, five, six with you too, because you have too much knowledge. You have too many anecdotes, stories, information that we're not going to be able to cover. Hey, let's just do what we got to do. Yeah, let's do what we got to do. And have fun doing it. Yeah. Man, you had one of my favorite people here, Paul Abdull. Yeah, yeah. That's really incredible. That's cool, right? Really love her. Was that on your list of things to see today? I'm sorry. Was that on your list of things to see today? I didn't know that it was. It made its way to the top of this, though. Second only to Sean. Well, you know, again, I've been blessed to know such amazing people like yourself, like Paula, and so many other people that were just nice enough. Yeah. Because this is just a labor of love, and I'm just grateful and humble that you, of all people, took the time to just sit down with me and just have a, just a chopper. Yeah. No, it's fun, man. I'm such a fan, like really, of you. I love Boyz II, man. And I hope Nate and Juan Ye don't take this the wrong way, but like my favorite, my favorite voice is yours. Sorry, guys, but I love y'all too. Sean, is that what I tell you from me, too? Thank you, man. Thank you, boy. Thank you. My friend, Candy, we used to talk about your voice, man. Candy took? Yeah. Shout out to Candy Tooks. Shout out to Candy Tooks. Right. But we used to talk about, it was just something about my first experience. I just want to talk about this if it's okay. Please. So we were doing the soundtrack to Eddie Murphy's movie, Boomerang. And Babyface writes this crazy song in Dittaro. And it's almost finished when I walk in. He left a line for me, because these are generous guys. But he left the line for me, like finished the chorus. It's a promise. Yeah, yeah. I can feel in the blanks pretty good. I'm really good at filling in the blanks. And we played the song for Hiram Hicks, because we wanted Boy's Men on that soundtrack so bad. There was no second choice. That song wasn't going to anyone else. It wasn't that kind of, it was specifically written for Boy's To Men, even though we had not met you guys. And we didn't know if you would be open to it, because we understood that you wrote your own songs. I didn't even, I didn't, I knew Dallas was involved, but I know Dallas is songwriting. I worked closely with him. And what you guys were doing didn't sound like your standard Dallas Austin. So I was like, okay, these, this is an artist that has a point of view. And I was a real style, a real writing style. So we didn't know we really had a shot. And we didn't know. And we just started out labeled. He didn't made it shit. Anyway, so Hiram gave it to Biff. I guess Biff played it for you guys. Fast forward. Sunday is a Sunday morning. We get on a plane from Atlanta to Philly. You guys have like maybe one day off on tour. Yeah, we were on a, on a hammer tour. On a hammer tour. They have one day off. So we get on a plane, go to Philly, get some Philly cheese steak. Either before or after I can't remember. I have to do it. And we go to the studio and we start cutting into the road. And my memory, if it serves me well, if I'm right about it, when you got ready to sing, I don't know why, but he had, you addressed me. And tell him, remember this. Is it alright if I do this like my way? And I was like, yes. And man, did he. And we got chill bumps because that's what producing is. To me, producing isn't for me to give you my idea. Producing is for me to extract the greatest idea and your, the greatest ability from you. Right. And that was one of the moments that, that happened. That magic happened. That was my first time meeting you. And that stuck with me my entire life. And I'm really grateful for it. And had chill bumps that moment. Have chill bumps now thinking about it. And I didn't know that song was that big. Right. Right. I mean, I didn't know that. I sound good, but. Yeah. Listen, I think we listened to it like four or five times after we recorded it. We just replayed it, kept playing it over and over and over again. And then after that, we just kind of left. Right. And we're back on on a road. And you guys did your magic, but the touches on it. And I guess you could say the rest was history. That was a special day. Did you know? No. I don't. No. I mean, we were still young in the game. Like, we didn't know what it hit was. I still don't know what the hit record. Like, you know, I just base things off of what I, what feels the most natural to me. Like, because at the end of the day, we have to deliver the record. Right. And if I don't feel phony, singing a record. And if I feel like my most, like my most authentic self, it's good for me. Right. That's, that's what we base it off of. If the notes come out freely. And it's not a chore for me to deliver this particular record. That's what I base it off of. Now, whether it becomes a hit or not, because there are some songs that we felt like, okay, semantics wise, this should be a hit. Right. But it wasn't. Right. Yeah. So I don't know. Yeah, hits are interesting. Yeah, I don't. And it's become harder than ever, by the way, because a ubiquitous hit, it's really hard to come by. And those, you had ubiquity in your hits. And today, and I know I sound old. I'm not that young. So I have a right sound. That's okay. But today, today, that's the case today. Each one of us in this room have something that we love, some song or some artist that we love. And more than ever, it may not be the same. Right. It's so different now. You know, I remember the era of, you know, you like Prince or you like Michael. Yeah. You like boys to men or you like Joe to shoot. And everybody knew both. Right. Yeah. And today, I'm telling you that there's probably 200 artists that none of us know. But if you look at their streaming numbers, they're like big. Yeah. But we don't know anymore. So it's all kind of crazy. Why do you think that so? I mean, you're honestly the only guest I've had thus far, who has been, who's had access to the other side. Right. Who understands where the nuts and bolts are, the screws and all the other stuff. You're in those rooms. Right. That people speak about the process of what creates a hit record, what creates a star, what creates a good song, what creates a bad song, whatever. So what have you gleaned from just the status of this industry and why hasn't it made a turn yet? As far as what what what's most important, which is creating music that lasts. Opposed to creating music that goes viral. So here's how I look at it. Right. First, there, there have always been. I feel like I've said this before. There were always, there always. Word, those valleys to compliment the peaks. Right. So we just have disposable songs growing up. Lots of them. I can remember some of them. I can't remember all the names and the hard. No, you're right. There was always disposable songs that might have been tied to a dance or it might have been tied to something. A double Dutch buzz. Right. All of those. Right. And then there were the meaningful artists that you'll never forget. Right. So that part of it hasn't changed that much. Sure. The only thing that's changed is all you could eat for. But the value of it changed. Because I don't think that. I'll just take any song of yours. I'll just take. I'm going to take Motown Philly just for this conversation. Right. Motown Philly in my mind is. That's Louis Vuitton. Right. And. I can think of another song has nothing to do with you guys. That is target. Right. But they cost the same. But they shouldn't cost the same. Because yours is elite and it's royal and it's special and it'll last forever. Because you can't buy an acura and pay the same price as a Bentley. Okay. But in music, the Bentley cost the same as the acura. Right. Right. That's what I, that drives me crazy. Yeah. It drives everybody crazy. So why is that, L.A.? Like why has music become so disposable where it's not valued the same way as it used to be? I think it's really simple. I'm not, maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but when our industry was at its height, piracy kicked in. Yeah. We didn't know what to do about it. And then the answer to piracy was Napster. As, as genius as it was, it was also clunky. And, and you know, broadband was very tough to download. It took forever. It was a lot of time. And then Daniel Eck to his credit created a smart way to receive the music. You know, I mean, there were people that had streaming services before that. I believe Rhapsody was actually the first one. Right. Yeah. Right. And then, but Spotify was the global really music focused and really thought about the user experience. And then we were better than anybody. So the reason we're here is because we, the bottom was falling out. The bottom was falling out of our industry. And we didn't know what to do. And those of us that make music or promote music or market music or manage artists or whatever. None of us were of the mindset to find a solution. But the bottom was falling out. And someone found a solution. And they were like, you know, you're not going to be able to serve us well. I'm not sure if the solution serves us well, but it's a fact of life until we think of something better. And that solution happened to be streaming. Yeah. I got a quick question. I feel like the same thing happened with the movie industry. Right. The movie industry has a similar problem as the music industry right now. Right. Right. Right. Right. Before it was, are you going to see that new Denzel movie? When a new movie comes out, we talk about just the movie title. There's not movie stars anymore. There's not music stars anymore. That's true. Like, you know, if you guys walked into a planet Hollywood, it was, yeah. Right. Mayhem. Yeah. Is it not right there with us like a similar problem with movies and music right now? A prime example. A prime example. A similar issue. A prime example that that B is is when I, when I asked my daughter, who's 15 years old, who's listened to a song, hey, dad, you know, listen to the song. Oh, that's cool. Who is it? I don't know. Right. Exactly. So that's the point I'm making. Exactly. I just like the song. It's faceless. It's faceless. Faceless. It's faceless. That's the best way. And it sounds good, but it's still faceless. Still faceless. And again, I don't know who made my carana. No disrespect to whoever made it. It's a brilliant song. But I don't know who did it. In my dance. My guess is no one in this room knows who did it. Right. No. It was a bunch of older, so like a bunch of older Latin dudes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody else on stage is on stage right now. Everybody else on stage right now. Everybody else on stage right now. Everybody else on stage right now. Everybody else on stage right now. Everybody else on stage right now. Everybody else on stage right now. Everybody else on stage right now. Everybody else on stage right now. Everybody else on stage right now. Everybody else on stage right now. Everybody else on stage right now. Everybody else on stage right now. Everybody else on stage right now. Everybody else on stage right now. Everybody else on stage right now. Everybody else on stage right now. Everybody else on stage right now. from the wrong place and not following through on what might be true to them. What you said earlier was that when you know a song is right when you're completely in your zone, it doesn't matter if it's a hit, but you know you're in your zone and you feel complete doing it. And I think listeners have that same thing. They want to feel complete. I don't think that goes anywhere. I don't think that changes. Yeah. I wholeheartedly believe that. Yeah. I just think how it's presented to us has changed. I think that comes down to the people and how the passion behind all things are presented. I agree. When Mr. Busby called me to play Motown Philly over the phone, he was so excited that I got excited. And as simplistic as that was, that's presentation. That's how he's sold me. And he played the whole song. Wow. That's crazy. Well, thanks, Joe. Serenade, did you? Thank you very much. Well, we're going to get more into that, but let's start. Yeah, I can get stuck, man. Yeah, you know, no, no, let's learn more about Antonio. All right. I like to do a segment called We Gonna Go Back, Way Back Back in a Time. And I like to put our audience to go back into Cincinnati, Ohio with young Antonio. You know, okay. But you notice how good I am at deflecting talking about me, right? Yes, but we're not real difficult for you. We're going to play tennis. Okay. We're going to deflect it right back and forth because you are the man. You are the guest. The spotlight is literally on you. Wow. So this is about you. So and I promise I'll make it as painless as possible. Okay. Okay. Appreciate that. Yeah, of course. You're my man. So, let's say I always like to pick the age of 10, 10, 11, those formative years where you're not as kiddie as you used to be and you're about to grow into another stage in your life where normally around this time the music that we listen to is the music that sticks. Right. Tell us in the Reed household, what was being played that made you fall in love with music? Oh, man. So around that age, 10, 11, somewhere around there, R-E-S-P-E-C-T, a retail display. I don't know if you ever heard it, but Lou Rawls has a live album. And it's insane. Yeah. Oh, my God. It's a blues album. And I think it's insane. I never heard it. It's insane. We listen to that. We'll look at it. The first version of hip hop I heard was called The Last Poets. Yes. We listen to that a lot. I listen to that. The heart's working man in show business. James Brown was everywhere. But I also remember like it's my party and I cry if I want to. And I remember, wait a minute, Mr. Postman. And I remember the Beatles. I want to hold your hand. She loves you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there was a lot of music around. My mother played music all the time. Like all the time. And when I wasn't at home, I worked for my uncle who's a barber. Okay. So the barber shop was like the barber shop is just like being outside. You know, when you're in the barber shop, you just get a real feeling for where you are. What's going on? What people like? Barber shop is culture. That's so cultural. You know, and I remember hearing a record that was life changing to me in the barber shop and it was called Compared to What? And it was by Les McCannon Eddie Harris. And it was a jazz-ish record, but it was also a very commercial record. If you're here, if you're already right now, you would know it. Okay. Right. But it was mind blowing. So first time I heard somebody curse on a record was crazy. And right, it made me think of hip hop. Yeah. When I listened back to it, now it had the attitude. It had the attitude of hip hop. Anyway, so I was surrounded by music. Did you learn how to play drums at a very early age? Like, why drum? Like what? Like because when we first saw you, obviously, we saw you as a drummer in the band, the deal. And we'll get to that. But were you playing those instruments at a younger age? Or was that something that you picked up later? I played very, very early. I just love it, man. I still do. I'm not very good, but I still love playing. You know, so you got a drum set at the house? Yes. Yeah. As a matter of fact, in our studio house, when you walk in, there's a set of drums that reach you at the door. Oh, super dope. And I get on everybody's nerves because when I get to feeling it, I just sit down and play. Right. But it was, it was hearing James Brown's song, Cold Sweat. It was hearing that drum solo. Yeah. And you guys are too young to remember. But there's a section of the song where they say, give the drummer some. Get the drummer some. You got a drummer. And then the drummer breaks into this beat, right? It was crazy. And that was life changing for me. Sure. I just wanted to be that guy. Right. Sure. That was it. That was it. And you play drums. Now let's go through the actual band journey. Okay. Because normally there are all types of like moving parts that go into what event. Eventually would be the final, like you say, the final bosses. Right. So let's travel down a road to where the destination is what we most know you for as that drummer for the band, the deal. Was it the, those guys, the original members the whole time where there are people switching in and out? Like, how did that come about? Because you're from Cincinnati. I don't know what other guys are from faces from Indianapolis. Correct. How did that even come about? All of the members, let me see. I think we were, we were a six-man band to begin and four of us went to high school together. Okay. Very much like you, like you guys. Four of us went to high school and we were living in Indianapolis. And because Indianapolis, unlike Cincinnati, was a place that bands could play like five, six nights a week, three or four shows a night. We could make a living, we could learn how to play, we could be in the club, be around. Nice breeding ground. Yeah, it was just a wonderful breeding ground. While there on an off night, a version of the Ohio players came to the same club that we were. They thought they were face play. Right. I think you told the story. Go ahead. Go ahead. So. And it's like, it's like a version of the Ohio players. Like maybe one or two original members, but you know, I didn't feel like it was like it because I remember Ohio players. It's like just great band. Anyway, they had this young guitar player that I really loved. His name was Stanley Burke and he caused himself stick. And so when they finished their set, we met and I asked him to join our band. I said, you look like you should be with us more than you look like you should be with them. Their older, you're young, right? Your breed, you look like us. You should join our band. Wait a minute. Stop. Breed. Can you please explain that word, breed? What does breed the slide that we've got? No, no, no, no. I didn't have that in the question. What is breed? What's breed? Breed is valid. Okay, how do I say this? Breed is Prince, first of all. Okay. Breed is the whole thing that Prince pulled together that was this combination of being a funk musician, but having a punk rock attitude and looking like a rock star and kind of having a little bit of a kiss my ass. Not the most friendly, a little rebellious, rude, the opposite of how I really am. Breed is the most. You're a gentleman. Always have. So breed was attitude and stick had the attitude. It was a look, it's a sound, it's an attitude. Stick was breed. He was breed. Join us. He did. So that band, that version of the deal played the clubs and Indianapolis and then one night Kenny Evans is sitting like in the front of the club. The club wasn't that big, but he was still positioned right down front like he was there to watch us. Like somebody told Kenny to watch us and I hadn't met him yet, but I knew I knew him. It's Kenny was already Kenny was or he's always been Kenny. Yeah. He's always been a genius. He's always had that that that sound, I heard his demos before I ever met him and his demos sounded better than anything anybody had ever done was saying. Like how's he do this? Yeah. I can imagine. Fortrag demos man and I mean, and the way he would, you know how he stacks his vocal for stuff and how his voice compliments his voice better than any voice. I remember right here. I love hearing his stack. It's insane. Right. But he was sitting in the club watching us and after it was over and introduced myself, he introduced himself and and you know Kenny's not, he's not the most, how do I say it? He's not the gregarious guy. He's not, he's not going to say much. Yeah. You know, he keeps it very close to the best. He got a lot to say. Right. But you got to know him to get up. You know, anyway, we met and he wasn't breed. Right. So after we met, I remember Kenny calling Kenny, don't get mad, I'm just telling the truth. I'm sure he's going to watch it. And he wanted to join the band and I thought he just wasn't breed. Right. But I thought he was a genius. But I didn't know how to pull it off because he wasn't breed. So fast forward, I met him in the studio. He and I both were in the studio working with Midnight Star, the band that sort of, not the band that discovered both of us, which Red G Callaway and Midnight Star, Bo Watson, that whole group. I walked into the studio, it was a Midnight Star session. Lights were dim and somebody was singing. I couldn't see it, see who it was. But the song was playing out the slow jam, this time make it sweet. And it was sounding incredible. And I was like, who is that? And then when he finished, walked out, Kenny and he was breed. All of a sudden, I'm like, whoa. And we connected and we became really good friends. That was the coordination. That was it. And so he joined the band. Okay. We got a recording contract and we started making records. That was the story. Okay. So you guys are making records, y'all are basically being played all over the place. Definitely Philadelphia. Because two occasions was on rotation. That was our third album. My first album had a song called Body Talk. Our second album didn't produce a hit. Although it had a popular song called Sweet November. Yeah. Yeah. You guys have a song that sounds like Sweet November. Which one? Let me go back to the dun dun dun dun. Yeah, that's the, yeah, Ben and me. On Ben and me. That's a jam and Lewis creation. Yeah. That's, yeah, I guess you can say, yeah, that's all. Yeah, yeah, it does. It will be like Sweet November. Sure. Sure. I don't know if that was their inspiration behind it. I don't, I don't think so. Yeah. But we didn't have hits on the second album. And then the third album, we got lucky with two occasions. Amazing record, breakout record, classic. It's the same reaction every time it's played, whether it's in a club, arena or a church. It doesn't matter. It don't matter. You guys, you ever covered it? Two occasions? Yeah. We used to sing it in high school. We never covered it. But there were a lot of records that you see what I'm doing here, right? Yeah, I see. I see. Yeah, yeah. You see what's happening. That's what I do. It's all right. It's going to go back to you. But I told you, we're going to volley it all right on back. But you guys ever? Yeah, right. No, no, we've never covered it. But it was one of our favorites. And one of those records that I guess you could say we kind of exercise. It was done. So I speak right. It was one of those classics and the hoods of Philadelphia that everybody enjoyed and appreciated and loved when it came on. It just sounded like heaven to us. You heard it on a radio. And even the, I don't know what it was called, a remix. Oh, the stocks off slow. No, no, no. Every time it goes mad, I think I love you. Yes. No matter what the season is, I still love you. Whenever I'm behind, I'm only going to be with you forever. Wherever you are. Souda, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, you know, fade, fade. Woo. You know, going off, you know, you know, you know, like that, that, that, that was that, that was that guy, man. And, and, you know, it was gifted, man. No, just, just listening to those types of songs, like you inspired, you guys inspired us to understand that there's a, a level of, we always wanted to be the, the smooth ones. Mm-hmm. I mean, like, you know, we were the guys that wanted to say something real cool to a girl. It was, it wasn't just about the normal, I love you, baby. Did it, did it, did it, uh, we were, we were more cerebral than, right? So it was like, we tried our best to kind of pull out as much, uh, emotion from instead of saying love, we would use another term, but some way shape or form to get around to the track. You'll find a way. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, the metaphors and the inflections and, you know, those types of things. So you guys were heavily, heavily, our inspiration. And we didn't want to be smooth at all. So we, y'all couldn't help it. It didn't work out for us, and because we wanted to be, you know, we wanted to be this rebellious punk, punk, punk kind of, you know, uh, and then we meet Kenny and he's the greatest songwriter alive. Yeah, y'all had to go that way. And we started making those kinds of songs, but you had to, you know, but that was like, that, that didn't go over that well inside of our band because we really didn't want to, we didn't want to be smooth. We didn't want our, I mean, every album we put out, it's our first album we had to hit on our first release, our second album, we stepped because we wouldn't put out what we should have put out. And the third album, although two occasions was a hit, we had a stiff before that because we just didn't want to be that. We wanted to be brief. We wanted to be brief so bad. We wanted to be like the time, we wanted to be like, oh, Sheila, like ready for the world. Sure, sure. We wanted to be like, we wanted to be like that so bad, man. And, and, and, and we were jumping over the hits just to try to be brief and it didn't work out for us. So, okay, that's interesting. So, because, because what I'm going to ask is, was love face, the partial pursuit of you trying to find, breed them. Because, but first off, what was that conversation like? But, you know, you guys are banned and you and face decide, hey, we're going to take the drive to Atlanta. Like, the steps were, yeah, what were the steps like? Yeah, we were, we were banned. Yes. We came to LA. We came to LA and we started writing and producing for solar record tax. We signed to solar records. And so we started working on Shalimar and the whispers and Dick Griffey, who was the head of the label. We worked on his wife's record. Her name was Carrie Lucas. Carrie Lucas. And we, we obviously were working on our band, The Deal and then baby face out of solo album, solo deal with solar. So we were working on his record. So we were living in LA and we were just working on records. And, and without there really being a plan, we just, we were fortunate enough to just work a lot. And as it turned out, we started making records on so many people in LA and they all started to come out around the same time. So, so when two occasions was the hit for The Deal, Rock Steady was a hit for the whispers which we'd done and girlfriend was a hit with pebbles that we'd done and they were all out at the same time. So basically you flooded the algorithm. So we got hot. We flooded the algorithm and we got hot. And, and we just, we went on, we went on a run. Like we really did go on a run. And, and some, some, one of my favorites, I know you know because you're a music guy. There was a band called the Mac band. They had a song called Rosas Arendt. That's the one. I just hate that there's not a song that you don't know. I really bothers me at this point. Yeah. Right. That was one of them, right. And, and we just we sat, so we did a Paula that was just here. We did something with her. So we had like a lot of success. But two occasions took us back to band, back to breed them, breed, breed, breed them, and band them. And we went to, we went on the road with the band. When we came back off the road, I was like, okay, I kind of had it. Like I don't want to be on the road anymore. I don't want to be in the band anymore. Because we've been producing records. And now I have this new hunger. I want to science. I want to find artists and science artists. I want, I want our own, I want the face records. Yeah. And can you love it and support it me? And he, because he was still pursuing his career as baby face. Yeah. And successfully. And he would do anything to help the face records. But his focus was baby face. And so that's how we coexisted. Yeah, I see. And the band, that didn't go over that well. You know, like quitting the band, starting the label. Sure. Yeah, that didn't go over that well. I wouldn't think so. No, but we're still all friends. All of the guys in the band, we're all still friends. We're still all communicate a lot. And you know, anything that's important to me, I discuss it with them. With that, that's still my, my brain trust, my soul trust. That's good. Because, you know, those things can turn out pretty messy. Yeah. K-O-D Carlos, those are my friends. Yeah, that's what's up. Yeah. Well, you've been known in the music industry released from my understanding. You being an executive and being responsible for so many people in their careers. You've been known for trusting your instinct before the data. Yes. Absolutely. But how do you know when a record or an artist is the one? How do you know, sounds off in your brain to say that this has something, or this person has something? I just have to be still and listen to the voice of the higher power. I just have to sit still. If I'm, I just have to really sit still and let it come to me. I don't know if that makes any sense. No, no. It's the real, but growing up and hearing songs like all of us, when we heard the great song or the great artist, there was a reaction we got. I just zero in on what that feeling was, and I hold on to what that feeling was, and I don't let go of that feeling. And when I'm working as a record executive or someone who signs talent, I stay true to what that feeling was. So when I heard, I mean, it could be anything, man, anything and any era, but whatever that feeling was that I got, I tried to be honest with myself and say, did you get that feeling? Right? For whoever it is. Because we signed outcast as an example, right, very, very proud of it, that we just inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. So we're going to be going on great. And I had never signed a rapper. Right. So how did you know? How did you know? They didn't sound like rap to me. The music had a soul. There was something in that music. Okay. I can see that. It had a soul and it sounded like it just felt good. Right? Outcast is thick. It's thick. It's warm. And you know, when you hear it, it puts its arms around you, right? And it was the feeling because I didn't know. I really didn't know. ATLians is one of the best albums ever. Like ever. Thank you. ATLians is fucking insanely good. They were so good, man. And so it's just that. It's being honest about the feeling. And I still, I pay attention to data. I pay attention to analytics. I don't want to, I like doing what I do. So I don't want to like date myself or make myself not no longer useful. So I use all the tools, but I don't make decisions based on them. I make all decisions I do based on how to feel. Every song, every artist, how does it feel? Just a period. How does it feel? In this day and age, the way music is consumed and distributed and everything, how do you protect an artist's creativity while still running a profitable business? It's hard to make money. I mean, it's hard. It doesn't mean for specific people artists. So how do you allow the artists to still be themselves? Well, at the same time, still managed to find a means to not to pleat your coffers. So, yeah. So I'm in some ways, I am the best executive and artist will ever find because if I believe in the artist, and I'm not saying that in some competitive state, like, okay, I'm better than this person. I'm better. I don't mean it that way. I'm the best executive for an artist that I believe in because I will not stop until we get to that place. So that means that it doesn't matter if your first record didn't work or your first album didn't work. Usher's first album didn't work. But I didn't waiver. I will never waiver. I stuck with him and stuck with him until we got, you make me one of them from Jermaine DeBree and move them all to the artist's first hit. And how do you protect their artistry? How do you protect an artist artistry? So that's an important point. Yeah. A part of that is uncomfortable for the artist because listen, if your boys demand and you write songs and you have a very definitive sound, anybody that comes to make a contribution kind of has to fit into that thing that you guys already have. Well, many artists don't have that. So many artists, you're trying to find what it is. What's the style? Sure. Right. And for artists that don't write the way you guys wrote, which is superior writing, right? Everybody writes. Everybody's not a superior writer. Even if they're even if they're a great artist. So the fight then is that you don't have a style until you have a hit and that hit becomes your style. And you might not like that. You don't know how true that is. Because as much as we loved into the road, and this is another controversy, the boys demand when it comes to, you know, there's been a lot of stories about it. When phase came to us with, I'll make love to you. For example, we never said we hated the song. We never said that we hated face. We never said we don't like face and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, that has hurt, you know, and the thing all we said was, I'm going to make this very clear. Again, was it sounded too much like end of the road. We were young, but we were very savvy. Right. So we knew that when Gerald said, hey, face wants to meet you at direct to play a song and this is when Apple computers first came out and phase pulled out his Apple computer record and we like the record. But we went into the studio and we are like back in the studio with Dallas. We was like, man, these things is going to make it the first single. You knew it. We knew it because we understood how that went. As artists, you want to be artistic. So we don't want that to be, we wanted to do an uptempo. We were young. So we wanted to dance and move. You want to be brave. We want to be brave. Right. So we're the day. Breathe. Breathe. So because we knew that was going to happen. And even if, even besides that point, we still did the record. Right. Because we knew it was a good record. You didn't just do it. But you know what I mean? You're saying. You're saying. But, but, you know, but we loved the record. We just didn't want it to be the first single. Right. Gerald argue with us, hung up the phone on our ass and said it's going to be the first single. Literally, he hung up the phone on us like, wow, we're like, hello. Hello. Damn. And, yeah. And again, we just came off with a success. I've ended the road. Now we got another ballot. And then we followed it up with Bendet Knee. Another one. Then we came up with another ballot and water runs. Another one. So just like all smashes by the way. All smashes. But we were like, we just want to dance a little bit. We didn't want to get caught up in being the ballot guys. But that's what that's what I say that to say. Yes, it makes you a hit. But sometimes you may not like it. And the people going to twist this shit too. No, I don't know. Yeah. It's like, we wanted to just mix it up. Right. That's all. We just want to define that's the risk. That's the risk you took. That's the risk you guys took when you when you decided that you would work with these these incredible songwriting producers, Jamil Lewis, Kenny, Babyface, Edmonds. And it worked out for you. But you didn't need it. That's the problem. And what you're suffering from is not suffering. That might be too strong of a word. Yeah. But you didn't need it because you guys were all ready. You sold five million wrecks before you met any of us. Right. Right. So we didn't make you. So now we're now we're going to completely define you. And you should have an issue with that because it's not like you were lost. Right. If you were lost, right. And you didn't have no style. Right. You should be grateful. And right. And leave it at that. And we would have been. And guess what, LA, a midst of all of that feeling of knowing that this was we were going to go down that road. Right. We still did the records. We still did them because we didn't want one to piss off the labels. We wanted to get along. And at the end of the day, we also felt like, but we don't know everything. Right. They're here for a reason. They have a better understanding and a notion. For us like where we can go. Right. We're going to trust our label. Am I? you? They did us well. You had a great label. You had a great with Biv and Bells being 100% your coaching staff. Yes. And saying. Yes. Mitchell and Paris Ely and all those other guys like we had a great group of people that seem to really care about us and in our movement and things that nature. But again, as artists, you struggle because you this is great. We're selling records. That's wonderful. But then the artistic side is saying all right. Well, can we do something? Yeah. That's the hard part because we on the other side on the other side of the desk on the back side of the desk, the we're greedy. Exactly. The greedy man. We just want another hit another one. Another one. Another one. Another one. Another one. Keep doing the same thing until it doesn't work. Right. And as an artist, that's like that could be very demoralizing even though you could be wildly successful. Yeah. There's a really tough. It's a tough. It's tough. It's tough. And that's why we call it the music business, isn't it? It is. Because if it were just purely music for the joy of music, with no responsibility to the business of it, we wouldn't actually, hey, we wouldn't be sitting here, but we also wouldn't have that that meaty discussion. No. You know, do you believe that in this day and age to legacy artists is dead? No. Let me tell you something. Here's my answer. You guys still tour. There are artists who have songs that streaming numbers will blow you away. They can't tour. Nobody wants to buy their ticket. Nobody wants to see them. Right. They want to see you. They want to see new addition. They want to see. They want to see their heroes, man. People pay to see their heroes. And you can't you can't you can't fake that. You can't. A.I. that. They want to see you. So legacy artists are super important because that's the true that's true entertainment. You know, a friend of mine, Ron LaFeed, he manages usher. He also manages backstreet boys. And they're at the sphere in Las Vegas. And I'm told that this one of the greatest experiences. Yeah. It's amazing. And they're sounds crazy now, but they're legacy artists. They're working. You guys are working. All the legacy artists that working, all the all the influence of stars are interesting products. Okay. So with that being said, and I promise this will be a part two to this. I promise you because we've we've yet disgraced the surface on this stuff. But you know, yeah, we just we're just touching on things. But so with that said, LA, do you think that in this generation, there will be an artist that will last longer than five years? Yeah, for sure. Like I think the day, not just a handful. Because we come from a generation where there were many. There were many. Yes. Like artists that last more than five years these days, you can count them on one hand. Yeah. So do you think will they be in abundance of special ones? No. No, they won't be in abundance of special. No, I just don't believe that there's ever been an abundance of special. You just happen to come in a, you know, I'm a little older than you, but I'm probably a lot older than you. But the error that you came into music happened to be one of the greatest errors of music. It was the most prolific, most productive, more stars. That narrative. It was just that's that wasn't normal. Okay. That wasn't normal. Normally, normally, it's a few, right? A handful. And that just happened to be an error of abundance, but that's not that's not how it usually goes. Yeah, it was an anomaly. So you saying that we were spoiled back in the sense of seeing the, seeing the industry in a way where we thought that this is how it always should be, but we were actually living in some sort of surreality. Really a magical time. Yeah. And I hope we'll see it again. You know, I'm sure we'll see it again, but it's still not the norm. It's not going to be interesting. I never looked at it that way. It's like a child being born rich. He's just born. He don't know his rich. You are born in an era of musical abundance. So you were musically rich. But you didn't know you were musically rich. You were born into it. Let's think about this one sec. And then I'm asked the last question. This is this is what came out, right? This is what was happening when we were going on. Yes. Boys, the men, Jodhisee, Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, Outcast, Wu Te, Nas, Jay Z, Shadee, Mary J. Mary J. Blige TLC keep going. Go big. Go big. Two pot. Two pot. Snoop Dogg Dr. Dre. God. Damn. Then you got to go all came out within the span of 10. You got to go to the other genres. You had like Green Day and Red Oxtaily Panthers and Metallica. That's right. Uh, freaking Nirvana. Pearl Jam. Pearl Jam. Sound Garden. On the garden. Guns and roses. Guns and this is all the same time period. This is all that five years. Motley. This is all the same time period. And now people wonder why we can't leave that era. Right. And that's why guys. That's why there was an era of magic. It was a musical abundance. Right. Richness. I feel it. It rained down on us, man. And we were so spoiled that we thought it should be this way for the rest of our lives. That's a good perspective. That is an amazing perspective because I never looked at it. We neither. Yeah. That's what we had you today. We needed your perspective. Yeah. I'm a lay off them. That's how I see it. That's how I see it. So we should applaud the handful that become iconic and can have a longer than five year career. And and we should also applaud the ones that don't because you can't have a peak unless you have a valley. Do you understand? You can't. If you want to be special, then you got to let the trash live. Yeah. Right. It's like to appreciate the highs. Because you don't want it all to be the same. Do you do you want to stand out? The only way you stand out is that there's a little trash out there. Right. And then and then you stand out. But you can't stand out if it's like, you know, that's like that's the pretty girl that walks into the club and she's prettier than everybody else. Right. She should be happy that the rest of them don't look like her. Because if they all look like her, she wouldn't be special. Right. Right. That's how I look at it. So I have an appreciation for all of it. Yeah. But again, it's like appreciating the highs, you know, because the lows are there for sure. You know, yeah, like life isn't it because I appreciate the highs and lows in life. Yeah. Right. Because you just wanted everything. It wouldn't feel special. I'm a layoff then. Because you write, I think my perspective was a bit of skew because of what I grew up under. Right. Like I was around you guys. I was around Jamon Lewis. I was around like these guys, these the literal goats, literal titans of music composition. Right. You guys will, you know, if I can utter some medieval, you know, utterances will be written in the scrolls for. Like you understand? Like no bullshit. Like, you know, no, no, you know, hope. We all did it for that reason. We did it in dairy. We did it for the love, but we also did it. Of course you did. We want to leave a mark. Who doesn't want to leave a mark? I know that's right. And I think again, we were spoiled because we were under YAH's tutelage. We listened to YAH. Like we didn't just do music with YAH when YAH talked. If you noticed, we were shut the fuck up. Wow. Whenever YAH will open YAH mouths, we were z- and we were here. Wow. That's because we were just trying to understand things. We know that stuff is going to happen, but we had a deeper realization that there was a reason why we wanted to understand why it happened. So we can duplicate it and not just for us because we understood that we in turn were going to be the OGs. Right. Exactly. We wanted to make sure we had a good enough foundation that when we opened our mouths, those kids would shut the fuck up. That's right. And listen to us. Hey man, I just got chill bumps again with those names. You just dropped. It's crazy. That era. And I was glad a great appreciation for it. But man, I don't even know if I like, oh, those names. And then you threw in the rock genre. Come on. The alternative genre was so great. The beat, the bed for Nirvana. You got green day coming out of the bay. Like it was just like the chili peppers you had everybody. It was different. It was really, really different. I remember going to a ceremony called the Diamond Ceremony. Where all the artists that sold over 10 million records would come to this ceremony. And we would all get presented this little glass award. And it was a post. And I think it's around here. I think I still might have it. And we all signed it. It was us, Metallica, Green Day, freaking. That's crazy. Like we were all there. Like every shot like we were. Yeah, we were, yeah, we were all hanging. They're all coming back to me now. It was, yeah, it's crazy. And it was it was called the Diamond Party. Where it was like all of the artists. What did you guys sign? What was it? It was this poster. Okay. It was this poster with all of our names on it. And it was everybody who went Diamond. Yeah. Oh, okay. And we were all just hanging out. We just signed each other's. But you know, it really understand what was going on. I mean, we understood. But I think I understand it more to the fact that I was around 10 other entities that sold 10 million records, which made you know that little triangle and billboard with the number of next two. You know, the 10, 10 or the 11 or the 12. How many albums have you guys done a deer label to win Diamond under the face? Outcast was one because it's TLC Outcast Diamond, crazy sexy cools Diamond, Speaker Buster Love Below is Diamond. And I believe Tony Brasston Secrets is Diamond, pink second album called. What's the second album? I mean, what's the second album called? Anyway, it was Diamond. But in my career, we're not going to get into that. Yeah, because y'all think I'm bragging. Yeah. Bragg. This is four. Didn't you sign fallout boy? I didn't sign fallout boy, but I worked with fallout boy on their first, second, third albums. But I didn't. They were signed to the label when I got there. You did sign Avrilovina. I signed Avrilovina, yes. And I'm very proud of that. Yeah, you should. And Andre tells me that my greatest signing, this is Andre, you know you said this. So when you hear me say it, I'm not lying. Andre told me my greatest signing was Travis Scott. Listen, I'm not mad at that. I'm not scoffing at Travis at all. Yeah, I love Travis. I'm incredible. You know, but in my humble opinion, you're like Alpaz. Their cultural like juggernaut all their own, their culture. Don't be studied in colleges in about four years. If they're not already studying. I know that there's anybody cooler than Andre 3000. Yeah. I envy him. There isn't. I just let me tell you something Andre, if you're watching. I envy you. Because you have such a legendary status even now and you have not wrapped. You know, I ask Andre when I saw him last, I said, what is the price of freedom? Because he's really free. He's free. I have never met an artist more free or exercising the freedom more than Andre. I had to ask him. He said, well, he said you got to be ready to be challenged and you got to be willing to be okay being wrong sometimes and he said, yeah, but it goes with it. He's completely free. Yeah, you're right. Andre, yeah, you're the coolest mother fucker. He's the coolest mother of a lie. You know, you are. He is the coolest dude alive. Let's make that a decree. Let's stamp that of a print like Andre 3000 is the coolest mother fucker a lot of other. A lot. A lot. What is your favorite restaurant in which city? Don't matter. When you think of good food, good atmosphere and just, you know, I don't know if you drink wine. It's a nice. I'm going to go to the French lingerie in Napa. Okay. Yeah, that's number one. That's some LA fly shit right there. Okay. All right. Cool. So you're there, right? And you have yourself a nice beautiful, full colorful green salad. You know what I'm saying? With a cold glass of white. I was there, you know, just on your, you know, L.A. G. Shit. And in walks through the entryway, a younger Antonio. He's been looking for you. He wants to know something. He wants to know whoo what his future holds. So he sits across from you. He grabs a baguette and he just sits and waits. He wants to hear from you. What would the older Antonio, Mark Weiss, read? Not Le Verne. You're trouble. And please don't edit that out. That's, that's, you know, please we need that. We need this. We need this. What would the older Antonio say to the young, bright-eyed Antonio? What would you give him? Oh, man, I would, I'd have a lot to tell him. I really would have a lot to tell him. I would tell him to, um, um, don't get carried away with it because you're going to go on a hell of a ride. You've been annoying to, you're going to have a hell of a ride. You're going to have a lot of success. And don't get too hot. Don't get too cold. Be cool. Just be cool. Right. Don't get carried away with it one way or another. I felt that. Right. And, um, and well, I would tell him to save his money. Okay. Right. That's wise. Yeah. I would, yeah, save your money, kid. You know, um, because Kenny Adams used to say, you know, save it for rainy day because it's going to rain, you know, um, and always the songwriter. Love you, kid. Right. Right. I love that. And what else will I tell him? I would tell him, I would say, listen, young man, you're going to, you're going to work with this amazing guy named Kenny Adams. You're going to create this label called the face records. Don't you fucking sell it. That would be my, that would be my message. I did that. I'm not on that note. Yeah. I felt that. You feel that? I want to cry. That's what I want. Man. That's the message. I don't know why that. You felt that, right? Oh, L.A. Man, let me tell you who did I tell this to? Um, we need a part too. Yeah. Yeah. You got to come back. There's so many more questions I have. I didn't get one out. Should I barely got anything out of my pad? I know. Yeah. That's what happened. You got a legend in the building. Yeah, man. I'm happy. I'm happy. Let's do it again. We got to do it again. This is fun. And guess what? L.A. I need, and I'm saying your mic, Sean. Oh, I'm saying this on record. Um, we need to go out and have some dinner. Let's go. I need, um, just need to talk to you. Okay. I love that. That's all. What's your favorite restaurant? I'm so cliche. Cause, because, L.A., I don't really go out. You know, not really. And when I do, my wife and I, we go to Nobu or we'll go to Ms. Chath. We went to match those and it was, it was good. But, yeah. You, I'm sure you got some duck alves that are fantastic. Oh, yeah. That's one cool. I love those. By the way, I love Nobu. I love Mr., I don't go to Mr. Chath as much. I do like it a lot. Um, there's a, there's a handful of really cool places, though. Here, you've been to, um, Tonky? No. What's that? Handmade pasta. Oh, it's pasta. He's a pasta chef. There's a lot of things, but he's the greatest at it. He's the greatest in town at that. So we, we should go there and, all right. I'm, I'm gonna do some of these shows. I'm coming back. I'm gonna hit up you for jacks. And we're gonna set that up. Let's go. I just need to have a conversation. Ladies and gentlemen, it has been my honor to talk to this man who's been a friend of my for many years. It's, it's a bug out to call him a friend. Ladies and gentlemen, please give it up for Mr. LA Antonio Reap. Hey, y'all. And that was on that note. Hope you guys enjoyed it. And if you did, here's a couple more videos for you to check out. 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