Something Borrowed, Something Sued ft. Hayley Paige

I'm on like this emotional roller coaster with your story. This is Haley Page. Good afternoon, everyone. I signed an employment agreement that included a non-compete clause. I want people to know how easy it is to get into a bad deal. My former employer sued me. I was forbidden from using my own birth name. You're like, you're going to see me. Exactly. Was that your first lawsuit? Oh, yeah. The first real lawsuit you think you're going to jail. In your non-compete, it said that you can't wear a wedding dress in your own wedding. Did you ever feel like you were losing help? Yes. I always get a little emotional when I think about, oh, sorry, the bride. Don't be sorry. Coming on, clearly to cry. There are so many teachable lessons in life. This was something that I just had to survive. I am Haley Page. I'm Haley Page. Let's all scream it. Haley Page. What was the fastest turnaround for a wedding dress? It has to be my sister's. No. Yeah. So she had a surprise wedding. Who surprised her? Well, Haley, thank you for coming on Chloe in Wonderland. I'm so happy to have you here. I'm on this emotional roller coaster with your story. But before we get into that, I would love for you to just sort of say who you are and what you do. Yeah. Yeah. I am Haley Page. Yeah. It's so fun to say for many obvious reasons. Right. Yes. Let's all scream it. Yes. And I'm a wedding dress designer. Also did a little detour into shoes during a non-compete. Mm-hmm. But I'm just a girl that loves pretty dresses and making women feel beautiful. It's always been like my love language, I feel. And you started designing really young. Yeah. You were in your early 20s or probably younger than that? Yeah. Really young. My grandmother taught me to sew. And that early exposure was pretty much everything for me because it led me on the trajectory of just wanting to create and communicate that way through design. Mm-hmm. And were you always fixated on wedding dresses? Yes. Became my identity. Mm-hmm. Yes. Very young in life. And I think it was just a way to kind of express myself but also feel connected to what I wanted to say. And it made me feel the most confident. And at what age was that your niche? It was the first dress I ever designed. It was a hot pink midi-wetting dress. No way. Yeah. And my mother was really, really encouraging of creating, bought me a sewing machine. Love that. So, and I think just growing up in the 90s being like a classic millennial, I love Disney princesses. Represent. Romance, all that good stuff. Did you always fantasize about your own wedding? Like were you obsessed with weddings or you just had a gift for wedding dresses? I think I was just obsessed with the idea of this one dress carrying so much memory and meaning. And it kind of transcending just normal fashion. Right. I mean, as you know with fashion, it can be so intimidating at times. Yes. To feel like you have to either be a certain shape or silhouette or have a vibe to pull something off. And I feel like bridal is kind of the equalizer in that anyone can be a main character as the bride. So I like that. I love that. You've been so incredible about being as vulnerable as you are and being so open and honest about your journey. You signed a deal when you were 25. It essentially was an employment contract. And being at the stage I was in my designer journey, it just was like the opportunity of a lifetime. Yes. Right. And like something I had always dreamed of doing. And here I was getting the opportunity to ring lead my own collection and have my name, you know, up on. Lights everywhere. Around the show. And I didn't want anything to jeopardize that. I had never hired a lawyer before. I had no money to hire a lawyer. You know, there are a lot of factors that kind of created an environment in which I mistook an opportunity for safety. And didn't want to fumble it either because if I pushed back or if I was asking too many questions, maybe they would see me as difficult. And ultimately I was like, I have a goal. I just want to get out there and be a designer. And, you know, so I signed this contract without a lawyer and essentially gave the right for the company to trademark my name. And not to interrupt you. But I think it is so important what you just said because you are not the only one that has done that. This happens all the time. And in so many different industries, it could be music. It can be, doesn't matter. Fashion, anything. I have signed crazy things in my life that I'm like, and I had lawyers. They just maybe weren't great, who knows. But I'm like, what the fuck did I just sign? I want people to know how easy it is to get into a bad deal and with intimidation or anything like that. And that's essentially what happened to you. Yeah. And it also made me realize that a contract is really intellectual property software. And software needs to be updated. And so if you're in a situation where somebody is encouraging you to sign a long-term contract, you're essentially trying to understand what you're going to be worth in X amount of years. And when you don't know what your value is, somebody else is going to define it for you. And so in that scenario, I really took away so many lessons from the legalese world, of course, which is what we definitely want to share through the nonprofit now. But it's more than that because it's a way for you to negotiate for yourself when you might not have the full picture. The beginning, you were 25 years old. You signed with JLM Couture. And at that time, what was going on in your life? I was pretty eager to just get out there and show people what I could do. And I really have an optimism hardwired in my soul. And I think that operating from a place like that can be reckless at times because you just think anything is figureoutable, right? Anything can be negotiated. And that was something I really tethered with because you just start operating and you have this amazing job, which I did. And I got to connect with all these women and design these dresses and fiancee has to the dress. And it was just this great momentum. And I just felt because this is going so well over here, I don't want to ruffle feathers over here. And someday I'll address this and it'll work out, right? What were the dreams you had early on as a new up and coming wedding designer? I feel like it was just about making women feel secure and doing that a very specific way. I think growing up a gymnast and also just a girl, you have your own insecurities and feelings of worthiness and trying to figure out where your worth and identity is tied to and dressware is just something where I would watch a woman put a dress on and she would feel so good about herself. And that was like a dopamine hit, you know? Because it's the fact that we're communicating this way, but I'm also creating something that she loves and then she makes it her own. And there's like this passing of the torch. And so I think that was the dream in itself is that feeling of this is my purpose. And I think it says something so special about you that you are choosing to be a designer in a field that is truly the most special day in a woman's life. And it's a dress that hopefully that person passes on to their daughter or their granddaughter. And it's such, like, I'm not trying to discredit any other clothing. Everything is so special and people put so much time and effort into it. But it's like the wedding dress. That is like the ultimate in the Omega of clothing to people. I mean, and you have worn a wedding dress before. Yes, I have. Did you feel like just the dress itself? You still feel connected to it? I do. I got married nine days after getting engaged very quickly. I knew my husband for 30 days, so really nuts. I was fortunate enough that somehow my mom called it Vera Wang and we were like, we're getting married. And then she's like, yeah, come to New York. And I think she thought like in a few months I'm getting married. And then I go to the Vera Wang store in New York. She goes, so when's the wedding? I'm like, oh, in like five days. She's like, oh, so I was limited to what I could wear. I still loved my dress. I thought it was beautiful and timeless. If I got to customize something at a time, it would probably be just more extravagant, not, but I loved my dress. It's classic. I have it. It's beautiful. My bridesmaid's dresses were all Vera and just it's so special. And I'll remember that forever. But you're right, like how you feel in it. If it's simple or princess-like, you just feel like the most beautiful girl in the room. I guess that's the goal. It is, the extension of your love and your love story. Do you have a signature wedding dress, do you think? We run on whimsy, I would say, which includes a lot of texture and color, a lot of unique juxtapositions. We've done laser cut, some faux leather. I like to experiment with textiles because I actually graduated with a Bachelor's of Science in Vibre Science. So you learn about the movements and behaviors of textures. And so that kind of plays a role in it, but we have a rainbow wedding dress. So we really like to just- I love that, yes. Anything else? I do think that so much has changed, that people love to have the variety and versatility now, and they want to stand out, and they want to do something different. It's not your traditional wedding dresses anymore, but that's so special. And people, it's their day. They have the right to do whatever they want. Exactly, go Nuance. What I find frustrating and infuriating and also so hard to imagine, this is your name, not only your brand, but it's your personal real name. And now your name gets taken away from you. What does that mean exactly? Like even on a personal level? It was actually during a negotiation period. So I was attempting to continue doing what I was doing. So there was a good faith negotiation effort. And during that period, there was just such a wide delta in the expectations and circumstances were so different than 10 years ago. And so the goalpost was just, it was far. And I ended up getting served a lawsuit. And so that happened during COVID and it was pretty jarring and scary. Like am I going to jail? Straight to jail. It was really frightening. Was that your first lawsuit? Oh yeah. The first one is, or like the first big one. Because I had a divorce, which was a different kind of lawsuit. No, the first real lawsuit, you think you're going to jail? Got punched. Yes. Like what did I do? What did I do? And what happens? And do I go in front of a jury? Like you have, yes. Oh my gosh. And you think of it like a night court. And then after your fifth, you're fine. This is a walk in the park. You're fine. Well, I look forward to getting there, but also not getting there. Right. Oh my gosh. It means you made it. That's all I think. Adulting hardcore. Adulting. But it was really scary. And then there was an emergency TRO, granted, within a matter of days. So I had days to hire litigation, prepare my case. But a restraining order? Yes. Why? So it was... So a TRO was a restraining order. But why would... Yes, temporary restraining order. Basically, there was arguments made about the name itself. Okay. And that there was harm of some sort. Cause that's basically how you get a TRO. And I was learning this on the spot, but within a matter of 48 hours, I had to hand over all my personal passwords for my social media accounts. That quickly. And I couldn't touch anything. So all my texts with my fiance, or DMs, and really private messages with your girlfriends, and memes you know, anyone's... Of course, if someone went through one of my DMs, I would be murdered. I would be... No, I would be... They would kill me. Yeah, so bad. That's not okay. And then the name, which was kind of ludicrous, because it had been 30-something years of me using my name if no problem. And then all of a sudden, I couldn't even say it at Starbucks. So it was like, whoa, that's... Like I didn't even know what to do with it at that point, cause it was so bizarre to me. And then the third part was really just a matter of, I'm not gonna be able to work under this kind of duress. And so I actually resigned. And I was still technically under contract, cause there were two years left on my non-compete. And so it was just so complex. There was a lot of nuance to understanding the lawsuit. It was COVID, so I had nothing better to do, but to learn, okay, what have I done? Right. And how am I going to figure this out? Because the interesting thing about a contract is, you know, all these words on paper. Right. But then it's how it's being interpreted. And so to the degree to which it was being interpreted was where I just kind of felt gobsmacked, because I couldn't believe that so much was going well for so long, despite just a negotiation of trying to work things out, it all of a sudden was this like detrimental like... Yeah, and why they would go that extreme so quickly. Yes. So there was like a lot to negotiate and manage and just taking inventory on the situation. And being that it's COVID, I imagine the legal aspect would be much more delayed than life before COVID. You would think, but it was pretty fast and furious. Oh, wow. And so this led to just like a back and forth, you know, claim after claim after back and forth. And here you are basically ping-ponging in the beginning part of a lawsuit. And like you said, I was like, do I go to court? Like, we had some zooms where I was like shaking and terrified. Understood. Couldn't imagine going in person, you know? But like, you're just kind of thrown into it. And I think the part about being disassociated from my community was particularly scary because all of a sudden they were posting to my account to Miss Haley Page. Stop. And so my family and friends who weren't told what was going on, they still thought it was me. No, that's very violated. So it was very, I was like, oh my gosh, I don't know what to do. And were they pretending to be you? It was just a very scary situation of people not knowing. Right. And so for me, I was like, I've always been really open and transparent. That's something I feel like you can relate to and being just you wanna be salt of the earth, sugar of the sea kind of person, right? And I felt misinterpreted and misappropriated kind of in that situation. So I got on another Instagram account with like barely any followers and just shared legally and factually what was going on. 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So very good argument to make. Basically the argument that they were making is that in trademark law and because there was an intellectual property provision to my contract that the two of those things tied together somewhat created a catch-all where anything bearing that name, crazy, they would own the property of, right? So that was at least the argument to my knowledge that they were kind of making at that time. And to me, I'm looking at it from the perspective of, well, it's an employment contract. I was a head designer. I wasn't a social media director. Social media became a thing, right? And I posted freely, but it's not like I was getting paid to post. Correct. You know, so there was the arguments on both sides, but it really became this thing of, okay, where's your Snapchat, your Pinterest, your TikTok. You know, and so like you can imagine like all the hours that you pour into. Yes. And it is an extension of who you are. You at least try to be as authentic as you can on social media for the most part. I know that is so violating. So luckily that video that I posted went viral. Well, I was just gonna ask. So you then go on this other account that doesn't have a lot of followers. How does that go viral? So it was just- How does anything go viral? I don't really know. I really don't understand. It was community. It was the public court. And I say that with so much gentle kindness because really that is what saved my entire life. Like the public court is the people showed up for me. They shared it. They told bridal stores, you know, cause I'm a B2B business mostly. So my dresses are sold to bridal stores. And you have these store owners that are like, wait what? Like Haley's not behind the collection anymore and wait what? She's not behind her Instagram and wait, wait what? Right. So there was kind of that chain reaction and you just had this compounding community rally. Well, that's amazing you had that. But this is like so unbelievable to me. It's a little bananas. It's crazy. Yeah, it was bananas. I was not winning in the legal court. So that was scary. And that's so inferior. Either like this is my fucking name. I was born with this name. That's horrible. So one of the biggest issues in your lawsuit was your non-compete. And so what does that mean to the people that are listening? What is a non-compete? It's essentially you agreeing to stay out of an industry. For typically a designated period of time, right? Oftentimes it comes with an exchange of money or monetary compensation. And it is a way for a business to protect, oftentimes it's proprietary technology or the proprietary goods, right? And so in my situation, it's art. So it's not really proprietary, but I was put under the two year non-compete of my contract. And then two days before that non-compete was up, there was another argument made that it was an extension of five years. Stop. Yeah, and that one wasn't so much tied to the name Haley Page, but me Haley Page the person. Which means you can't design elsewhere? I couldn't design using my name or design wedding dresses at all. At all, in the category. No matter what name I used, right? So, and that actually stuck in the district court. So then I was under a five year non-compete and I wasn't getting commission or paid. So it was essentially a seven year unpaid non-compete. And not that this matters, but could you design different categories? I could. So that was really the pivot in my brain that made sense. It was like, okay, I can't design wedding dresses. I am gonna even stay away from dresses because I don't want anything to be misconstrued. At that point, I felt like I was really being watched and I was even found in contempt of court for sketching on social media. And so that was like- You had got to be kidding me. I was like in big trouble. It was a very, very scary time. But also like, you must be a big threat. Do you know what I mean? Like in a way you're like, okay, you guys are so concerned about little old me. Like that it's a little flattering. Now that we're past it, at the time I'd be like, contempt of court that sounds so scary. Like it's all insane cause you're sketching. Sketching on social media on that other account, right? But it was considered promotional and argued that way. And so at that point I was like, okay, well, I'm not gonna sit for five years and have a victim consciousness. Like that's not gonna do any good for me. And so luckily again, this community rally was like, go design something else. And so shoes were totally non-competitive, right? I mean, I'm sure you could just wear shoes as a wedding dress, but let's not try to make that reach of an argument. But I did shoes for a while and I changed my name publicly to Chivalre, which is the French word for horse. And so I built a new brand around that. What was your personal name? I had my legal name that I couldn't use publicly or in any business or commerce. But if I met you, I could be like, hi, Hailey. But you said like at Starbucks, you couldn't say your name. I would not be able to give you permission to use the name. Oh my God. And it was pretty intense because it was, the problem is is that now that you have social branding and you have personal branding, you're technically advertising, right? And so if a name is a trademark and I am that person, it was just so convoluted that it was like, it's not even worth it. And so for a good period of the two years, I was going by a girl you might know. Yes. I was like, I'm just a girl you might know, maybe not. Yeah, but it's clever and cute. And I love that. So that was the vibe. What insanity? Okay, I'm sorry, I interrupted you about the shoes. I'm so sorry. I'm just like, it's mind blowing. A little hard to believe at times, but it also helped me that it was so unbelievable because it really did get the attention of a lot of legal people, attorneys, big law firms. It got the attention of Senator Warren for come to speak at Congress, give your testimony on non-competes. So there was to every part of my journey where there was this feeling of like an anger, I also had a sale. And so like I got to choose between the two. I love that. I was like, I'm gonna keep staying positive just more responsively positive, you know? And not feel like this, actually this scary lawsuit is my identity. Cause that's where I think I would have really lost myself. Yeah, but I love that you've taken negatives and you've turned them into positives and you do find the sale and everything. And what made you pick the name? It really was just a fun process of what name did I like, right? And there were moments where I would just go listen to music and kind of get in his own. And I kept going back to the song by America, which was a horse with no name. That's like a little bit of humor. I was gonna say, this sort of just, it embodies your whole story. Yes. I was like, horse and then Chaval. And I was like, oh, there's a Chaval Blanc restaurant. My mentor took me to once and I love that name. And it felt very elegant, but also strong and masculine. And you know, like I'm gonna make sure circumstances are not in the driver's seat from here on out and like run against the wind. And so I just liked that name and went with it. Did you ever feel like you were losing hope? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. There was definitely a lot of moments of just, you do need to sit with your grief because there's obviously something that's missing, right? And you feel it like that emptiness. And I always get like a little emotional when I think about, sorry, at the brides. Don't be sorry. Sorry. You know what it shows? How much passion and love you have for what you do. And you getting emotional for the brides. I think that's why everyone is rooting and rallying for you. People spread your story because it's not that you're just some designer that's doing something in autopilot and just doing it for money. You're doing it for these women and you are crusader. And I think the horse is so fitting because I think of you as, you know, the princess charming. But you know, on the white horse and coming in to save the day. And that's like when I heard the name, that's what I thought of. I'm like, of course, this white horse, white wedding dress. And yeah, it was one of those things where when you put your problem out into the world, you know that people are gonna feel the weight of it. And I just didn't want it to tarnish all these beautiful moments that these brides have had, you know, because life can really kick you, you know, gut punch you and also feel like, okay, I'm learning these lessons. It feels like a roundhouse kick to the face. But like, I'm learning these things that I needed to know the long scenic route. But there was something where I just didn't want it to the residual stress to impact those moments, right? And I actually didn't experience that. I had so much support from these brides, but I also just felt like I couldn't communicate with as many of them as I wanted to on social and like let them know that like, they should go buy a Hailey Page dress that they still want one. What you're showing for other people, like, okay, I made these mistakes, don't copy what I do, but you're doing it in a way that's so relatable. And even when you go and talk in front of Congress and you're doing something that's so intimidating and big, you're still doing it, but for the voice of everyone else that didn't have a voice for the voiceless. And I just think that's really big of you. And I think so much of why you are now where you are and like you've gone full circle and now you're out on top is because of the spirit you have because not everyone can do that. Thank you. It's been really shape-shifty, you know? And like you said, when you go through things, we're part of you breaks. You realize it's a shedding and that there is something you can leave behind and that's okay because the strongest pieces are left and that's what you take with you to rebuild. And that's just something I've just kept close to the heart of like you're never actually starting over ever because your experience, your credibility, even your mistakes have got you to where you are now. And so like seeing the full picture and I bet you read some Carl Jung with cosmic relevance and thinking of how when you scale out and you really think about how special it is to be in the position you're in, to be alive and to have your faith and have your family and have all these things, you know, you start to realize that it's just so rare. And so to get caught up in the weeds of these things that feel circumstantial at times or feel like they're pulling you back or they're breaking parts of you, it's okay because it's death to certain parts of your ego. Leave it behind, right? And then rebuild and... But such a beautiful mentality because not everyone has that mindset, but we do have to not let those things let them crumble us. We have to use them and make it better and stronger and you're right, like even the most traumatic things, like the light, it's the shedding, the light does still come in. That's right. Something that I am mind blown on. So in your non-compete, which this is like so stupid to me and frustrates me, it said that you can't wear a wedding dress on your own wedding. So the way the non-compete was phrased is, it wasn't just tied to the name, right? It was me, the human being as well. And what was scary about basically being in contempt of court for sketching online is that the argument was made about promotion because social media is promotion. And so when I really thought about it in that situation, because my fiance and I had gotten engaged in 2018, seven years later, we're still engaged. But we just thought about, okay, but if we were to get married, first of all, it's weird because like, does he say my name? Can he say my name? Like, if it's filmed, no. If there are pictures or video, no. And then if I was to wear a dress, would it be considered competitive? Because it's like- Oh, this is crazy. Right? So it wasn't really addressed in that moment during lawsuit, but it's one of those things where I was like, you know what? It's not worth it. I'm almost bankrupt here anyway. So like, let's take a beat. Yes. My fiance has been my rock this whole entire time. So he was like, let's bench this for a bit and we'll revisit it when we can, you know? Or when it makes sense. Do you think you have trauma to get married because of all of this? It's just too much. We, during that time, definitely felt like just a lot of components that were dramatic and traumatic. And I guess too, there was a big part of me that thought legally, if I was to go massively in debt, which I did for my legal bills, like why would you want to marry me? Yeah. You know, if I have debt, you know what I mean? And so like, I was thinking about all of those things just in that moment of time. And so it feels really cool that as a couple, we have grown so much because when we first met, we were like very content, couple-y, like bake-offs. And we were in a different state. A different stage of life, right? And then we went through this like explosion of things. And so we came out of it. We went through it together and grew, but we came out very different people, but still very dedicated to each other, which is wonderful. And now that we're like finally planning the wedding and we're getting married and all this good stuff is happening, we have a wedding dress that we can design. It just feels like we really appreciate the shoulder to shoulder and like the standing through the rain. So it's nice. It is nice. I'm definitely going to cry all over my wedding. Yeah, like all over him. As you should. I want to tell you guys about something I've been taking that I honestly wish I'd found sooner. It's called Armra, and it's a colostrum supplement, which sounds niche until you understand what colostrum actually is. And then you're like, okay, why does everyone not know about this? So here's the thing. We live in a world that is genuinely overwhelming for our bodies right now. Microplastics, processed food, constant screen time, chronic stress, our biology was never built for any of this. And it shows up in ways that we've kind of normalized, feeling sluggish, bloated, like you're aging faster than you should be, and just not feeling like yourself. Armra colostrum is nature's original superfood. Colostrum is packed with over 400 bioactive nutrients that promote your body's resilience from the inside out, strengthening immune health, fortifying gut health, and fueling performance so you can stay sharp, strong, and at your best in a world that demands it. And when I say gut health, I want to be specific because I think a lot of us have tried probiotics and have been underwhelmed. 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Most skin care products, even the ones marketed as healing, are full of stuff that can actually be harsh on irritated skin. Active skin repair is a skin health brand that uses natural, non-toxic, medical grade ingredients, and the key ingredient is something called hyperchlorous acid. I know, that sounds very sciency, but say it with me. Hyperchlorous acid. It's actually a molecule your own body already produces. It's part of your natural immune response, so when you put it on your skin, it's basically just helping your body do what it already knows how to do. Cleanse, soothe, reduce inflammation, support healing, the works. It's also the same formulation that's trusted in hospitals, which tells you everything you need to know about how legit it actually is. And the range of things it works on is kind of wild. We're talking cuts, scrapes, burns, sunburns, acne, eczema, rosacea, diaper rash, like the full spectrum. It works on all skin types, all parts of your body, and face. So instead of having a different product for every different thing going on with your skin, you just have this one. Over 500,000 happy customers and thousands of five-star reviews later, it's become one of those staples that, once you have it, you can't imagine not having it. To learn more and get 20% off your order, visit ActiveSkinRepair.com and use code Chloe. You can also find Active Skin Repair on Amazon and at your local CVS. One more time, that's ActiveSkinRepair.com and use code Chloe. Okay, can we talk about, say, for a second? It's been on my radar lately, and I feel like it needs to be on yours too, because I feel like this brand has been having such a moment, and for a very good reason. So, say, is a clean, high-performance makeup brand, and I wanna say that carefully, because clean beauty gets thrown around so much that it almost doesn't mean anything anymore. But say, is the real version of it. Their formulas don't just look good on your skin, they're actually working to improve your skin over time. Skincare property is built into every product. That's their whole thing, and once you try it, you immediately feel the difference. Their vibe is what I call effortless and elevated, that no makeup makeup look that somehow makes you look like you just woke up, glowy and rested. They call it the signature, say, glow, and it's kind of the through line across everything they make. A few products I have to mention. The Glowy Super Gel is their number one bestseller, and it has a cult following for a good reason. It's lightweight, non-commodogenic, and it gives you that lip from within glow that doesn't look like a product. It just looks like great skin. The Slip Tint Tinted Moisturizer is another one that I love. It's sheer and dewy, and it has SPF 35 built in with non-nano zinc oxide, so you're protecting your skin while you're wearing it. In the Dew Blush, a liquid cream blush that blends seamlessly and gives the most beautiful stained glass effect on the cheeks. No streaks, no harshness, just a wash of pretty color. And the timing on this is genuinely great because Sephora Spring Savings Event kicks off April 10th with up to 20% off. Start building your basket with Say Now. I wanna hear about your journey to the Senate and how crazy that is. First of all, I have to public speak, but I just wanna die every time. What, you're so good at speaking. That's crazy. Oh my gosh, I cannot handle it. Even this, I'm always talking and I'm listening, oh my gosh, I'm supposed to be running the show and steering this, navigating it, because I get so into it, and I like to actively listen, and so when I'm also doing something public speaking, I don't wanna memorize. I was gonna say, do you like memorizing or no? No. You have to memorize for your show or for like, you're just cute. No, and I just, I'm such a chitchatter that I just wanna, Jadie Gatti. Yeah, just like talk and hang with you, that I'm like, oh my gosh. I feel like the Senate would appreciate that. Oh my gosh, that's too scary for me. But tell me about that. Tell me about your journey there and your advocacy work. So Senator Warren slid into my DMs, believe it or not. Amazing. Which was incredible. I was like, wait, what? Is that happening again? That is amazing. But yeah, she had followed the story and she watched, say, us to the dress. And so, she's been fighting for banning non-competes, the FTC and the whole shebang. And so she just said, I'd love for you to come test to find and tell your story. And what was really poetic about it was that I had actually just gotten my intellectual property back in a bankruptcy court. Amazing. And so this was maybe a month later that I was being invited to tell the story, start to finish. And I think during the lawsuit, there were parts where I just was so afraid that something I was saying would be misinterpreted or used against me in the court of law. Which it could be. Yes. It's horrible. You're on the other side of it. And now I'm like, oh, like my shoulders went down. Like I can breathe. And I actually went into it very nervous as well, but with something, with a bit of resolve. Because first of all, I just have to tell my story, which is the easiest thing in the world when you're just saying what happened, right? But I also just felt this L Woods, like pomp and pageantry of it, that this is it girls. Like, let's go girls, kick down the door and like, wearing suit. And so I just like really went into it because I couldn't believe it. I felt like God was giving me this moment to like, get up there and just say, like here's what happened. And here's why you need to be careful when you sign these contracts. And so that's really what it meant to me. And my parents were there and Conrad came and my lawyers came. So it was like this like, through the moment and it's just. Some Rotary going in together. During all of this and you going through that journey and then getting your name back in the bankruptcy court, all of that. But on this way, were people through your new social media account, were they telling you that they've been in similar situations? Like what made you start your nonprofit? Yes. So after we had put the problem out. Isn't that what the Senate, also what you were speaking, don't they sort of align? They do. The nonprofit is really about providing advocacy to young entrepreneurs and creators, especially during those formative years when they're likely to fall prey to one sided or predatory contracts, right? And they're operating with minimal resources. Luckily we do have like chat GPT and these things that you could just throw the contract in. Let's see what it says. Insane now. But lawyers still cannot be replaced. I will say, Haynes Boone is great. My legal team was fabulous, but it really was this way. It was this way to create conversation about what's going on here, because especially in the influencer world and personal branding world, where you have these exclusivity contracts you sign, all these perpetuities, all this name and likeness stuff, you've got AI coming into the picture now, who owns what. Very scary. And it really is complex and convoluted and everyone is almost at a disadvantage if you're not investing and learning from it. And so our nonprofit has funding for contracts. We provide access to low bono and pro bono attorneys because a number of law firms are required to have pro bono hours served. And so many lawyers and law firms reach out to me because of the case, they're like, what's happening over here? And let me help with other creators. And so we do that. And then we also just share mostly female stories, but stories of Kate Spade, Halston, Bobby Brown. I mean, I am not special in that this has happened before and it unfortunately probably will happen again. And so the best we can do is try to get ahead of it and not scare creators, just arm them with the right resources to at least start out on the right foot and not feel like they're being difficult just because they're trying to understand a contract or ask questions. I forgot about the Kate Spade one. I remember that so vividly now. But the one thing I will share is that we did change case law, which is amazing. My case, one of the things that was particularly strange was the social media element, right? Because like, how can it be a catch-all? I was a designer. Why does a social media account have anything to do with the trademark, right? Why didn't they just change the handle name? And so what we proved after two trips to an appellate court, so they did do two huge appeals, they found basic property law can be applied to a social media account. So unless the account was transferred or sold or written into a contract to transfer over, it belongs to the original holder and opener of the account. Thank goodness. And so I got my whole back. Congratulations. And then I was case law. So you did get your account back? I did. I got it back. Gosh, I'm like, at this point, screw those people. Not your account, but the people that stole. I'm like, this is crazy. I want everything back from them. I want it all. But it was also so funny, because I had all these DMs where like, you'll see a DM from like 2021. And it's like, I'm giving her her account back. And then the next one is like four years later. And it's like, hi, sunshine. Oh my gosh. I'm so glad you're back. I'm so happy you're back. The duality of it. But also just to see how everyone rallied for you. And like so many of them are people you don't know. And it's so incredible. Like I, sometimes social media can get really overwhelming, but then there's so much good to it as well. How did it make you feel to use your name for the first time after you won all your lawsuits and you were able to be creative and free of all of what was going on? It was a bit indescribable. I bet. I immediately thought of my parents because Mimi and Jeff, you know, they're like, they felt like they had done something wrong, right? Yes, Mimi and Jeff. Should we have, yes. Should we have given them, you know, a lawyer, you know, and I think the fact that they named me, and here I was doing something where some people were like, oh, well you sold your name. And it's like, no, I got a job. Like, you know, this was a big problem that happened. Yes, I admit the mistake. I shouldn't have signed the contract, but getting the name back and feeling like I got to discover who I was without a name. I got to find out, yes, I love that my identity is letting dresses, but it's also so many other things. Yes. And so I learned so much in that journey. And so now when I say my name, it comes with this just real gratitude and humility and like fortitude because like I fought for it and got it back. Yes, like this is my name. Yes. But it's just crazy that this could even happen. It is. It is nuts to me. I keep going back there. You can sign a contract and basically sign away your constitutional rights. And that's what people don't realize is like, you believe as a human, you have these rights, right? But there can be contracts where you actually sign your rights away without even knowing it or if it's interpreted a certain way. Right. And so it's just good to take a beat. It is. As much as you want the opportunities just to know that you're at least giving yourself a fair chance to not be in a situation like that. Going through all of this, was there anything you did for yourself? Like what were things that you would do? Cause I've gone to trial, I've done court, I've been sued and it's horrible. Is there anything that you would do to like get you through your days? Did you start like I'm someone I work out all the time and it's a release for me. It's not about the scale. It's mentally I need that release. Is there something that you did? You'll appreciate this because movement was far more profound in my ability to deal with my situation than manifesting. Or just motivation even. It was okay, I'm not feeling great. I'm gonna go on a walk. Okay, I'm gonna go for a workout. Okay, I'm gonna go jump on a trampoline. Maybe you were able to do that cause some people get really depressed and stuck. And they can't do anything. It's something I would encourage people to almost force and start small. You know, like do 10 squats in the bathroom and like notice how your physiology just changes. And it's also really a good distraction of discipline because you feel productive when you're working out. And I'm sure you have like your routine, you know, you get up, you get your workout in and you just feel like you're starting your day ahead. It sets the tone. It does. And like it is so up here. It's great for your body, but it is up here where all that work is actually being done. I tell people that all the time. And I know a lot of the times it's easier said than done. You don't need a trainer, you don't need a private gym cause people are like, must be nice for you to say. I'm like, okay, well, you can go on a walk outside, especially like the sunlight or just, and like you said, 10 squats in the bathroom. It's not even about running a marathon. Sometimes you just need to move your body a little bit and your blood flow, it's so silly and simple. Like we don't need all these extras, but it works wonders. It's changed my life and it's not about like now I'm like, ooh, I have a tricep, which I never had 10 years ago. And so, and those things are sense of accomplishment for me cause I, it's proven my determination and dedication. So for that, but what it does for me psychologically is so much more than I've ever understood and still until I started living it. It's a total game changer. Now that you have your name back and you did have Chevelle, do you still have Chevelle? I do. You do. Yes. And where do they merge under one fashion house? We're trying to figure that out right now, actually. And because you're a branding mogul, you know, oh my gosh, I can figure brain, but it's one of those things where, okay, I dedicated all this time to a small business. We were manufacturing the shoes. We started to finish and it was just me and one business partner. And so it was a heavy lift. And for you. Yeah. And shoes. And shoes because those are so hard. Shoes are so different cause all the size that eat. Size runs, you're guessing. And don't tell me you're doing widths too. Of course. Because you have. Yes, for a wedding you have. And then like 10s, 11s, 12s, and then people have custom shoes. And you're like, I don't even think I can do that. Are you doing the three widths? We only did one width for a while. And then we cut down to like full sizes. But like, I don't think what people realize is you have to buy your inventory. Yes. And you're, okay, how many size eight and a half am I gonna sell? Well, I don't know. That's why so. And so you people don't realize why so many people don't do half sizes or don't go all the way up to, yeah, cause of the just differences in inventory. It's so much money too. And then storing like there's so much the minutia that goes all into it. And then people want the turnover cause they want new stuff and like. What I wanna do with all this other stuff. I know. But it really, I learned so much about business, obviously it was great. But then when I got the intellectual property back and I was like, okay, well, I'm going to bridle. Like I'm full speed ahead. Like we're going back into bridle. I basically just gave myself permission to say, this is a small business with very dedicated loyal customers. I don't need to be this right now. I just need to maintain so that I can go over here and get back what I love the most and then find a way to kind of brand them somehow. And we did do a number of shoes that feel very bridle that you compare with the dresses. But, you know, I'm just managing it the best I can and trying to make sure that I'm giving my best effort because I do feel like I wanna make up for lost time a little bit, especially in bridle. And so we've got great shoes in the collection. And so at least right now it's just about maintaining it and then figuring out how we can scale at some point. What part of your like creative identity do you find the most fulfilling right now? I still very much lead with love, which is such a cliche thing to say. I love that. But it is like I just love it so much and I love that I get to do it again. And I love that people love that for me. And so it's just this loop of real security in my life of, okay, I thought it, I got it back and here we are again. You know, it's like that reunited, it feels so good, for sure. But I feel like I didn't lose my whimsy through the wicked parts and you can. Like life will beat it out of you. And if you just pay attention to who you really are in those moments where your identity is being tested or really circumstances are working against you and reach for what that is, even when you're in your lows, you can still hold onto that, keep that pilot light on. For me, that was creativity and creating things for women. So. I think people need to hear that more than ever right now. So that's beautiful. This is silly, but what is one bridal trend that you're loving right now? I love a good bass waist. At first I was, I don't know, because sometimes with the bass waist, so that's when you have like this really deep V in the front. It's very weathering heights, very like renaissance, very like pirate core. We have very designer terms over here, but I think it is super flattering on proportion and it gives you this room to play with your hip shape. And get that hourglass shape. So for me, I'm so straight up and down a bit and I've always wanted like that curvy, like beautiful like snatched waist. And I think the basket is something that gives you that proportion. And I love that the tighter corsets are coming back. I love the tighter corsets. Yes, snatch the waist. So I'd say that, but colors also super fun. A lot more brides are open to color options, which I think is great. What do you think the top like three colors are that aren't white? Blush, blue and champagne. Oh, blue is interesting. I've actually never, I don't think I've seen a blue wedding dress. Yes, no, but I'm like, duh, I get it. But like a soft powder blue. Yes. What was the fastest turnaround for a dress, a wedding dress that you've been asked to do? Oh, it has to be my sister's. No. Yeah, so she had a surprise wedding. Oh my, who's surprise turned? Well, she surprised everyone. Surprise we're getting married. I'm like, wait, this is like so crazy. Oh my God, that would be epic. Actually, no, she surprised you guys. Got it. I'm like, that's a risky game. Yes, she surprised all of her guests and no one knew except me and basically my parents and the group. But she and I both went through divorces, but going back to it, she was like, okay, I'm getting married in two days. And so it was kind of similar to your situation. I obviously love her. What can you do for me? Yeah. And as a designer, I actually think it's this fun challenge because you're like, okay, let's go. Get the scissors, let's figure this out. And so she did pick something from the existing collection because it's really hard to whip up a dress in two days. But we did tailor it to perfection and she loves Rod Stewart. So I did like a hand embroidery of a Rod Stewart lyric on the inside of it. That is so cute. Still made it special, but it was a, that was a pretty quick turnaround. If you can design anyone's wedding dress, who would it be? Yours. Thank you. What would you design for me? Oh my gosh. Like do you design? Yeah, what would you design for me? Ooh, ooh, ooh. Gosh, you would look so, I mean, okay. And that's on the spot. I know I hate- My brain is spinning. No, no, no, no. When people ask me things, I'm like, what's your favorite movie? I really love A Bass Waste for you. Okay. I think we need something that's a bit more moody. Okay. And structured, but like has like an architectural vibe to it. But like a hint of whimsy. I would want to like really push up the neckline, like give that sexiness. Talk to me. And like we have to show off the triceps. So I would go strapless, but I want some like really fabulous seam work in the bodice. Love. And then I think the skirt, we go a little bit more dramatic, like still structured, but I think I want to see you in like more of a ball gown. Yes. Yeah. Of course it back. I love it. Of course. Here's like turning me on. Turning me on. I don't know. We would be like flirting with you. And we need like five bucks. Sure, we do. And I sort of want them all really different. Yes, eclectic. Yes. Oh, for sure. You are versatile. Have you seen you? I mean, I just like to be- You think we're a trash bag. Which we won't put you in. Okay, sure. No, just kidding. You look amazing. I like to just try sort of anything and everything. It's just fun. Yeah. We got to play dress out. You veil or no veil? Veil. Yeah, right? Every time, cause it's just a moment anyway. So have it. I don't understand why people don't wear a veil. It's your wedding. It is like a nuisance sometimes. Like if you're outside and it's windy and you got to get the weight right. Yes. But I just think it's the drama. It completes the look. Yes. And like go big or go home. I love the drama. But you're asking. Yeah. It's a wedding dress designer. Big wedding or intimate wedding? Oh, gosh, both. I would say do one of each. Yeah, that's my girl. Okay. Yes. Classic dress or dramatic dress? Dramatic. I know that answer. That's silly. Yeah, I can't not. Okay. Do you want a first look or an aisle reveal? I'll reveal. Right? Yes. And then do the like your fake first look photos after? Yes. Yes. Skip the cocktail hour. Let your guests get to know each other and then come into the dinner. I agree. Yeah. I love the aisle reveal. Destination wedding or hometown wedding? Destination. Really? Yeah. I think it is really fun to give your guests cause people are gonna be flying in anyway but to make it feel like a bit of a vacation, like a retreat. And like that's their gift to you or like their gift to you for coming to your wedding. Yes. Like we're not gonna register anything cause I feel like making people travel. It's like. Yes. And I think that's so kind when people are pressed about that gift. Like you just flew to Italy now. Oh, we're doing Italy now. I love this. Oh yes. We're going to Italy. Perfect. We're going to Italy. How's it like planning your own wedding? It's a bit chaotic cause we're like, I'm still in transition of designing the collections. Our new collections coming out in like four days. Oh my gosh. And we just did the first one in Palm Beach six months ago and then I'm designing for my wedding. Right. Your personal. Yes. So there's a lot of overlapping layers and I would say one thing that's great is while I do care about the details, I have so many great service professionals like wedding planners, Sam Koma is like insanely cool and talented and I can just be like, you've got this. So you're not a big bridezilla. I don't think of, I don't know. I was super chill about mine. But it was more bridezilla. Yeah. But it was more my mom like needed to have a wedding for us, one of us. And I was like, yeah, you like. I could see that happening. Do it. Like she's like, I got this. Yeah, she's like, I got this. And I loved that. Me thinking about napkins or I'm like, what the, I don't even, I can't process all that. I just wanted to get married. So I would have showed up anywhere. I would have done a courthouse wedding. I didn't care about that. I'm so happy I had my wedding. I love it. But I don't think I could have handled the planning. There's too many questions. But you're so detail oriented. I know. I know you're like a little OCD so it's my fiance. And like, I feel like you have just a detailed brain. Yes. And so like caring about that stuff just is such a good thing, you know. It is, but I think I would care too much about everything. So I was like, you know what? You do you girl. What's next for you? I mean, you just told me 15 things that you're doing. So I don't think. Yeah. Look, I don't have time to think about this. We definitely need to get on our save the dates because we're getting married this year. We were like seven years and then all of a sudden I'm like, it's just you didn't send out your save the dates yet. No. Okay. I'm a professional, I swear. But in this moment, but no, I do feel I want to be careful to be super mindful right now and like present because there's a part of me that has felt like I've been on the hamster wheel running and running and running for my life, you know. And then now I'm like rebuilding and I want to get this back out there and I've got the small business and now we're getting married. And so like sometimes. And you're doing a lot at one time. Yeah. And I get nervous that I'm like, okay, am I here right now present in this moment? Because a lot of times I just feel like, what's next? You know, so I would say what's next is that I need to just be like present. Yeah. I get that. Do you see yourself expanding from the bridal world into a different category? I know keeping shoes, keeping bridal. Yes. I would. I would. That's amazing. But I would also want to take advice from people that have really learned how to brand properly because I think for me, I've just been really focused in the bridal world. And then when I started my small business, like I really understood my own limitations and what I needed to learn. And it's so important to bring people into your atmosphere that are really good at what they do. Yes. And that you can trust and that they can handle the job, you know. And like right now I have that with my bridal company. I still independently own it, but I have this amazing manufacturing distribution sales team with Maddy Lane Bridal. And so I want that if I was to do anything else. Where it's like you've got this amalgamation of specialty people doing what they're good at. What they do their whole career. But what about you? Is there an area that you've been wanting to go into? Because I mean your branding is so beautiful. And in so many different categories that are all different. Thank you. Is there one that is tapping you on the shoulder a little bit that you've not gone into yet? Not right now. So I turned 40 almost two years ago. I can't believe that. And I started this podcast and I didn't really, and all these things like, you know, contracts we were talking about. I started this podcast, fragrance and my snack food brand cloud. They all came out at the same time, but that was never the intention. And I am just, I love each one of them. They're all so different. And I love each one of them, but I don't want to just be like, okay, and now I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do that. I really, really wanna marinate with each one. And I think that is important because I love each one. And I've never done snacks before. So I'm like, I have to really engross myself in this field because I don't know a lot about it. I go to food expos and do these things to. That sounds like a dream. You get to try snacks. Yes, you go around to different booths and you do things like that. Things that I've never done because I didn't have a reason to. Fashion, I feel like I know really, really well. Either from the buying side from owning a clothing store. And so the like podcasting, I was like, what the hell am I doing here? Like I had to learn more about it. In season one, our format was a little different than season three because we had to try things to see what stuck and even what I like out of it. And so a lot of, right now, I feel so fulfilled with everything I'm doing, but they're all babies. So I still have to watch my babies right now. Yes, vertically integrate. Yes. And so maybe in a few years, if you ask me, I'll have a different answer. But right now I'm like, no, I'm kicking ass trying to educate myself more about all of these different fields that I love so much. And it's exciting because not that I was ever bored with what I was doing before, but there was so much that I just, no, it's autopilot. And I'm like, TV, I got this. I got this. And I'm like, so now doing different things that are newer, it is like this new surge of energy that I have and passion. Yeah. And there's like a tendency for people to think, especially with somebody who is so visible, and just like has this amazing community behind her, that it's like, oh, she's going into this and hit it and quit it. And it's like, no, like so much goes into these launches and perfecting it. And like again, being OCD or big detail, like I can imagine you're like, you know. So like the care that goes into it is so important. Well, I feel like you're a lot like me because you keep talking about your audience. And I care so much about ever giving out like wrong information. So I do my best to realize sometimes I forget like, oh, people are watching this. Like it's not just the people in here. It's not just you and me. No, like it's so, I'm so used to this that sometimes I can forget. So I'll say like silly things are inappropriate, but like I genuinely want to believe in anything that I'm doing because I know how much that matters to the people that are rallying behind me. And I know how hard it is to make money. I know how hard people work and I never want to take advantage of that. And so I'm always really, really thoughtful. I try to be with what I'm doing and what the messaging I'm putting out there because I know how much it matters and how especially in today's day, we like want hope and something to hold onto. And like I hope I'm giving the right messaging and putting the right energy out there because it does make a difference. And I can tell you're like that too. And it's important because so many people just frivolously do things. That's so wonderful Chloe. Like it's very inspiring to hear that and special because it reminds people that no matter like where you are in your life, caring about how people receive you, that's the real karma, that's the real stuff that matters. That confirms over time. Cause fortune can change, but who you are, like that's something to build on. Yes, well thank you. I want you to remind everyone about your nonprofit and your app. So the nonprofit is called A Girl You Might Know Foundation. So with little cheeky fun playoff of that phrase and yeah, it's agirlymightknowfoundation.org where all the information is and then haleypage.com is the main bridle. And then I have Miss Haley Pageback, which is the Instagram we fought hard to get. Crazy. And so, but now I have like a hundred Instagrams because I like to bring all these other ones. Tell me wish you could like somehow merge them, I know. Cause I don't want to fatigue my audience too. Or yourself. Yeah, or that. I'm like, it's exhausting. Even just going from like Instagram to TikTok, I'm like, oh, I can't. Do you take my life? I can millennial, no. No, same. How do I tick the talk? Well, and cause they're different, it's different content. It's very different. It's very raw. And I'm like, I want. No, this isn't raw. To be camera ready. Yes, no, we're not raw. So I'm not. Yeah, no. Just the heart. Yeah, the heart, but this is, I'm like this. This is glam. I do not wake up like this. Match the same. Yeah. So yeah, it's tough. But other than that, that's where they can find me in stores now. So bridal stores. And don't you have an app or did I make that up? Yeah, I do have, so actually do have an app. Oh, I was. It's called a Holy Match Emoji, which is a, it's a emoji app and it was actually. How cute. I was inspired by Kim's emoji. The Komoji, oh my gosh. So it's Holy Match Emoji. I love that. That is so cute. But now you can like make an app like that in chat GPT in like five minutes. And it took me like two years to create the vectors. No, I know, it's crazy. It's kind of obsolete, but, and then we do have Shia Chival, which is the shoe brand. So. Well, you are busy. You are a busy girl. But I'm so happy for you. Everything is so positive. And that is your karma. Cause you deserve all the positive and all the love and all the success. And I'm so happy for you. Yeah. Thank you for being here. And thank you for all that you do for these young men and women, both of them. But you help so many people and letting them just feel like there's light or at least a place they can go to if they have questions or feel like they're struggling themselves or not getting themselves in bad situations. So thank you so, so much.