Jaylon Johnson Details The Bears Winning Culture, Ben Johnson's Offensive Prowess & Caleb Williams

And I think one of the biggest things that I realized in his time with you guys so far is he's got a little dog in him. For me, the biggest takeaway was we're not trying to win, we're trying to blow people out. I ain't never heard nobody say that. Y'all were the scariest team in two minutes in football. Honestly, I almost want to say the fourth down from version was probably the craziest one. Just like, man, this game about to be over. And then as soon as you put your hand down, everybody goes crazy. It's like, what just happened? You see, we playing, it's like, bro, that's crazy. How he just always finds a way. Really just week after week, it seemed like we started winning those close games and started really pulling it together. So I think that was probably the deprivement moment. It's like, no, I got to change my attitude. It's not the same old bears and we can win those close games. Welcome to the show. I got Jaylin Johnson today, Chicago Bears corner. I thought he was great. I thought he was really entertaining, really smart. You know, I'm happy for guys like him. Like he's been in the league six years. It's his third head coach. Yeah, I kind of went like, went through that early in my career where, you know, coach after coach and, you know, we weren't winning a lot. And I can certainly identify with the feeling of a guy like, you know, Jaylin Johnson or somebody on the Chicago Bears who's like waiting for that coach to come along and breathe some competency into the program to where you wake up in the morning and you want to run into the office. You want to run into the building because you're excited about football again. I'm not saying he wasn't excited about football before, but, you know, if you've been on the Bears for six years, it's been a tough go. You know, there's been some good wins and that sort of thing, but no sustained success. And certainly not that kind of hope you want as a player. And I think Ben Johnson brings that and it really came out and talking to him. And he's such a smart guy. I just really enjoyed hearing him talk scheme and about some of the other players on the Bears. So if you're a Bears fan, you found this podcast, you hadn't listened to it before. Welcome. I hope you enjoy it. I hope you come back for more. Listen, it's been a weird week. I just one thing before the interview starts and then we'll get going. But, you know, two nights ago, I found out that one of my favorite players was, you know, one of my old coaches, Dave McGinnis, passed away at 74. And fuck. I don't know how to put this, but it, you know, I mean, of course, when somebody dies, you're super bummed about it. I mean, and getting older, I think you, I mean, 41 years old and people say like, as you get older, like, you know, people you look up to, older people, you know, you need to get more used to this. It goes from like weddings to funerals and that sort of thing. And, you know, I'm, I'm ready for it and everything. You know, I've had friends die, coaches pass away, you know, people I know, but like some, some people just, it hits you a little bit harder. And Dave is one of those people for me where I don't know if it's the fact that I didn't know how sick he was or the last time I saw him, he looked so good. But, or it was the fact that I found out and I found out in the group chat, like I found out in our group chat, somebody shot like a tribute to Dave McGinnis in the group chat. And I looked at it and I was like, this can't be fucking real. There's no way. And I know he's 74, but if you knew the guy, Dave was just one of those people. And I really didn't know they existed maybe until Dave passed, but he's one of those people that like, that guy's never supposed to die. Like there's not supposed to be a world without Dave McGinnis. And I know some people are probably sitting there thinking, well, how could that be? But to a man, anybody that's eulogized Dave McGinnis over the past couple of days, because I've read every article, I've watched stories, I've seen people celebrating his life. Dave touched a lot of people's lives. For the Bears fans here, he was a Bears linebackers coach for like nine years. That was his first NFL stop. He coached in college 13 years, TCU Hornfrog coached the backers for the Bears, you know, single Terry, all that stuff. That's where he got with Jeff Fisher and ended up in Arizona for a long time, spent a lot of years in Tennessee with fish. And then we crossed paths in 2012. We were only together for four years. And at that point, he was the assistant head coach. But I got to tell you like that guy just had, there's just some people who are different. And I couldn't fucking believe it. Like I walked down on the porch and I'm looking out and I'm looking out in the sky. I'm looking in the sky and I'm like, where's Dave? There's no way Dave's not here anymore. Coach Mack, Coach Mack was just special. And I think the guys at this podcast got to got to experience that a little bit last year when we went to Titans training camp because he had been doing Titans radio since he retired after the 16 season wasn't coaching the NFL anymore. He's just a special guy. He makes everybody in the room feel good. It's the whole saying of like, nobody remembers what you did or what you said, but like people remember how, how they make you feel. And Mack made everybody feel important. He made everybody feel good. I'm telling you like there are coaches that I respected and then there were coaches and most coaches you respect and everything, but like there are some coaches that you look up to there's some people that you look up to. I looked up to Mack. I really did. He was just the type of guy that would light up any room and you hear that about people sometimes when they're not here anymore, but like he would walk into a room and hold court and make everybody fucking smile and a football building can be a really hard thing. And there are certain guys that kind of hold it together just by their presence at that point in his career. He's not doing X's and O's heavily. Like he's not in the meat. He's not teaching scheme every day. He's the assistant head coach. And we had some tough times with coach Mack in the building when he walked in the room, you forgot about whatever it was you were going through. And when they say glue guy, Mack was a fucking glue guy. There was nobody like him and I wish I could give him a big hug. Like I said, I'm 41 years old. People die. He lived a long, happy life, full life, 74 years old, but I just feel like we deserved 150. He was just that kind of guy. And look at the way he left when you see there's some people are probably like, who's Dave McGinnis? I don't remember the Cardinals coach from like 1993 or whatever. I don't remember the assistant head coach for the Rams. I don't remember the type. Who is this guy? Why am I seeing so much of this guy? It's because he's that special. He really was. And I just love coach Mack and I'm going to miss him. And when I was having a hard time in St. Louis and I was hurt for two years, and I felt ashamed of myself, like honestly, just ashamed to be dead weight and dragging down. And this is a building that I felt like my family. It felt like I had family members on the team and the coaches all loved me and respected me and everything. But like when you're injured, you're a shell of yourself and you can become ashamed and kind of you beat down in the dumps about everything. But I just remember every day Mack would come put his arm around me and just bullshit. Check in with me. You know, it was like the type of person that walks in a room and knows what everybody's going through. He was a man's man. And he was a brilliant guy and he was emotionally intelligent, which is like to be a leader in sports, in business and like in your family, like you have to be emotionally intelligent. And I just thought Mack was like, Mack was rare in that way that like, he really understood everybody. The minute he walked in the room, he understood what people were going through and how to make them feel more comfortable. And it wasn't a fake thing. It wasn't like he was a politician. Somebody eulogized him by saying he was like everywhere's mayor. Like he was, you know, he was the mayor anywhere he walked into. And it was true. He never met a stranger. And like when we went to Titans camp, you kind of wonder because you're like, fuck, I was with Mack for four years. Like I know he's a legend in Tennessee and everything, but I wonder if he still has that kind of pull in the building. Like he's doing Titans radio and we went to practice and these guys will tell you, I mean, like Mack grabbed me and was like, let's go see long. And we walked around for three hours. He's just, he's, he's like showing me around like he every room in the building he has free run of every person he sees in the hallway loves him. You can see it just their eyes light up and he's taken me from position group to position group, dapping this person up, dapping this person up and needless to say he's the fucking mayor anywhere he was. It wasn't just St. Louis. It wasn't just where I knew him from. Like it was probably that way in Chicago and Arizona and, you know, and in West Texas and, you know, anywhere he spent time. And I just really do cherish getting to visit him last year because we went to Titans camp and like I said, we were walking around. It was really hot outside. And I remember he was like, see long, it's hot. Let's, let's go in here real quick, grab two waters and went in the indoor facility, which was empty. And I just remember sitting down in the bleachers and sitting with coach Mack and thinking, you know how there's some people that you're like, you know, it's special when you're around them and you, you want to soak it up. And it's not just cause he's older cause I didn't expect he was going anywhere. He looks so good. You just, I found myself leaning in and hanging on every word just like I was in St. Louis. You know, the type of person that just makes you smile and, and demand your respect at the same time. And it's just, there's a whole generation of guys that they don't, you say they don't make them like that anymore. Mack is that guy. And I just remember sitting in there for, was 10, 15 minutes, leaning in, listening to him tell the same stories he told, whether it was Pat Tillman or, you know, William Hayes getting hit in the head with a football or the pranks that we played like Mack is what I miss about football. Like he embodied everything I love about being a teammate and going to work every day in a building full of people that love you. Rest in peace, Dave McGinnis. Like I said, they don't make them like that anymore. So from a guy that started his pro football career in Chicago to a, to a guy that plays for the Bears right now, you got Jalen Johnson coming up. So enjoy that. And I always ask Bears, or fans this when they come in to listen to a podcast. If you had a luxury suite, at a Bears game in this case, and you could fill that suite with five former or current Bears all time, anybody, who would you fill it with? We're going off personality, good hang, great player, whatever it might be, put it in the comments. Who would you fill that suite with? You got five tickets, current or former players. Jalen Johnson was great. You know, maybe, maybe shoot him a ticket. All right, take care and enjoy Jalen. From tee shots to game winning goals and buzzer beating baskets make every moment unforgettable with Bet MGM. Bet MGM gives you access to second chance promos, odds boost tokens, same game parlays, and so much more. Check back every day for new promos and offers to take advantage of. And if you haven't signed up for Bet MGM yet, use bonus code green light and you'll get up to a $1,500 new player offer on your first wager. Bet MGM make it legendary. The locals landline question the week presented by zone warning this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical underage sales prohibited. Y'all know I'm a bit more selective with my nicotine pouches these days. So for me, the quality of the pouch is what I prioritize, which is why I'll pop in a zone wintergreen. One six milligram is all I need every few days. Whether I'm kicking back and watching ball float in the river with the crew or breaking down film ahead of a show. Zone easily gets me locked in with its smooth feel and a variety of flavor zone is always on our game day roster. Whether you like a fresh mint flavor or you're in a citrus flavor, check out their roster of options and use promo code GL20 at nicocake.com slash zone for 20% off at checkout. I got pro bowl corner Jalen Johnson joining us. Chicago Bears absolute beast outside coming off a playoff season last year where the bears made a push and there's a lot of excitement around Chicago. So can't wait to ask this question, man. What's what's it feel like to wake up in the morning and say like, this is how an organization is supposed to be run. You're on coach number three. You've had a six what six year career so far. Yeah, you've been through a lot. Are there days where you're kind of like, man, this is what the NFL is supposed to be like. I can't believe it took this long. I would say it hit for me after the Thanksgiving game, my first game back the second time. So again, I haven't won that many games. I want to say since not even college, I couldn't remember last time I won that many games. So I think for me, it was just wanting to get back and be a part of it because to the point you haven't seen the culture being built like that. You haven't seen games being won at the end, how it has normal world on the other end. A lot of those games we were we were winning. So it definitely just felt good to to see as a witness to be a part of it. And they're really just to see what I would say success, what structure head coach and all that looks looks like. Because we haven't had anybody come in with that much authority, with that much confidence with and also with the resume that he had. So I was really excited to get been in there to get all the guys together and to come back and be a part of it. Yeah, I asked because I was on some losing teams for most of my career and then late in my career got to be a part of some winning teams. And in those situations, you're almost waiting for the next shoe to drop. You're like, what's going to go wrong? It's like you have to retrain the locker room to think like winners. Do you kind of like last year, y'all won in a multitude of really crazy, unlikely ways. And you you go back to like Thanksgiving the year before. And then that game, it's like respectfully, one of the most like how the hell does that happen in the NFL things? And then within a year, you guys are doing the opposite. There's probably like a learning curve. You know, you think it'd be easy to just start winning, but like guys have to start thinking like winners. Yeah, I think that starts from the top. Honestly, I mean, for me, too, I wasn't even a part of the wins in the beginning of the year in the choice of middle. So I think for me, it was I had to get out of that doubt in my mind as well. Even watching it on TV. I remember the Cincinnati game. We were doing I think doing a thing kind of going back and forth and then again, we were losing. I'm like, bro, we were just blowing them out like how have you at this point? And I was just like, man, same old bears. Look at us. And then getting kept going back up for him and we pulled it off and he threw the ball to close. And I'm like, oh, this is crazy. And then really just week after week, it seemed like we started winning those close games and started really pulling it together. So I think that was probably the defiant of moments like, no, I got to change my attitude. It's not it's not the same old bears. And now we can win those close games. And even when we aren't pulling the games off how we should be, we can still have the ability to win them. They kind of got to the point where if something magic didn't happen, I was like, what the hell, man? Like, yeah, it would have got born if it wasn't too close. Yeah. Like the night or the Niners game. Like I'm like, I'm watching on TV. I'm like the Niners are dead. There's no way like just don't be sure. Y'all were the scariest team in two minute and football and and also create a lot of turnovers, which I think, you know, as we know, that's one of the most important things in the game. But you guys did such a great job. I want to ask you about before we start the Ben Johnson thread here, because I got a lot. Was Al Harris a big part of that? He's my old teammate Al Harris, like crossed over with Al at the end. Love Al Harris. Was he a big part of kind of the ball hawking attitude you all had? Definitely in the back end for us and on the secondary for sure, because honestly, everything that we did was about the ball. And he used to emphasize catching a jug left the practice. He used to really emphasize not just going for PBU, but also in practice, taking those chances to go intercept the ball. So I think when he's pushing you and putting it on your mind, then the seven that you kind of naturally start to inherit and not just making plays. Because I mean, a lot of times DBs, all we care about is long the balls on the ground. And for him, it was and now we got to intercept those and really teaching us how to not even take the right chance, but to make the right reads. I would say was probably the biggest thing. Because a lot of times you hear it as oh, he took a chance or he guessed or he did this. I know I just had the right read. And a lot of times when you get the right reads, the quarterback will take you to the ball. I think for us, that was probably the biggest thing and then just having confidence catching a ball. Was that I mean, like I looked back, you know, I popped the tape on this morning for to refresh my memory, the the playoff game against the Rams. And you guys did such a good job and so many facets of that game. Yeah. And kept the points down and really had, you know, as you know, a lot of chances to win it. But I thought turnovers, like a couple that just kind of got left out there, maybe a little bit. Like, yeah, for sure. Do you feel that way coming out of that game where you're like, then we had our opportunities and we're good enough to do this? Yeah, that was definitely the biggest thing for us on defense. It's like we had to your point, we had ample opportunities to take the ball away. We just didn't capitalize. And I think for us, that's something that we knew we needed to do to be the difference maker in that game. Because I think really throughout that, throughout the game, we played really good defense. I think it was just those missed opportunities that could have separated that game. And I think if we get those, we could have definitely been in Seattle playing that next week. Well, yeah, it just goes to show you, I mean, you look at the Super Bowl and nothing against those teams, but I just, this is an era of the NFL like over this last year. And I think this year coming up was like, man, if you got a good football team, you can win the whole thing. Yeah, for sure. And you guys are kind of, you know, two years removed from firing a coach and all that stuff. And all of a sudden it's like, I look at the NFC and I see, I say, I see you guys right there. Yeah. And I think the Rams are a great barometer. You know, I know you don't take moral, you know, victories. Yeah, no, for sure. For sure. You definitely compare yourself. But that's a damn good football team. And I thought you guys played them, you know, to the wire, obviously, but also the thing that was crazy about that game was when you throw on the all 22, the first drive relative to the amount of snowfall that was coming out at the start of the second quarter, take me inside the process of getting ready for that game and looking at the weather. So we had some crazy weather this year. Did you guys see it coming down like that in the second quarter? Like, and does it change the way you have to play a little bit on the back end? Naturally, yes and no. I think for me, the yes is our game is all about footing, being able to plant and break, being able to change directions, reactionary, feet aren't always going to be in perfect position. So that's something you kind of think about. I know a lot of guys started changing cleats from the regular stares to having the screw in and things like that. So it's definitely things that you got to take into account, but I think overall for us, it made it more exciting, especially them coming from LA, kind of that weather barrier that they got to kind of got a break felt like an advantage for us. But I think really, I mean, the weather didn't affect us. I think we did a really good job preparing for that throughout the throughout the cold weeks. I would say Ben definitely didn't give us any heaters, didn't give us any breaks during the practice that week before. So playing in the cold game is actually way easier than the practice before. That was his plan. That was his idea behind it. So for us, it really wasn't too much outside of the footing. Yeah, that's the thing. I always used to remember the DBs were so stubborn about putting on the seven studs. Yeah, I'm one of those. I never put on studs. I can't say never. I probably put on studs two times in my career other than that. I can't do it. Was this one of those games? Yeah, no, I didn't change my cleats at all. That's ballsy, man. That's crazy. Yeah, but it is because sometimes we're slipping. But to me, I'm only going to change it if I feel like I'm slipping. But as long as I felt like my feet were good, I was good. Yeah, I just remember the coaches always coming back in and being bitching at the DBs about man. Yeah, as long as you don't slip. If you slip. If you slip, you're going to get fried. They're going to say I told you so. But I just think, you know, like I thought Dennis Allen did a great job this year, man. Especially on third down, you know, I just was so impressed with the game planning. And, you know, obviously you guys were a ball hawking group and everything. But just in general, I thought he maximized the talent on your unit. And I wonder if you could speak to what makes him a differentiating coordinator because I really thought he did as good a job as almost any coordinator in the league last year. Yeah, and I think what I like and have come to respect about him is he is who he is. And I think at times he can almost be like overwhelmed and like, man, why he always doing this, but at least he's consistent. He's not a coach that waver with what's going on or depend on who we play. Oh, well, we're not going to do what we normally do. We're going to change it up. He's not that guy. He's somebody who's consistent and he believes in the guys that he has. He believes in his system and it's something that you can only respect and go out there and try to execute the game plan best as possible. But I think really for him, he just wants to be aggressive and wants to be disruptive. And I think that's the biggest thing that we could do on defense outside of taking the ball away. So I think for us, we can be disruptive and we can take the ball away. That's how you can be one of the better defenses in the league. And I think we definitely did that. I think we just needed more consistent execution, I would say, from a player standpoint, especially against Tehran, especially kind of getting it, not letting teams go down so much on down the field and then stopping them in the red zone or whatever the occasion may be. I think we got some things to clean up in that regard. But I think overall, I think we were really disruptive. Yeah, a little less. Ben, you want to get these drives over with? Don't be out of the way. I just, when you were just describing him, you said like, you kind of were chuckling a little bit, but you were saying he's the same guy every day. I had Greg Williams and you know, they're like those New Orleans guys, like they got a little shit to him. A little edge to him. He's different. Yeah. But, but I don't know about Dennis, but like Greg could dish it out, but he could take it too. Like he could mix it up with the players a little bit, but also like to your point, if you pissed Greg off, he was just going to mash the Blitz button. Like it was almost like he, he, he, he, he get a little aggressive sometimes. If all else fails, send the house. Send the house. Send the house. Speaking of sending the house, I mean, this to me, I was going to ask you, if you had like, if you were coming on like Kat Blitz and Caleb Williams is the other quarterback, what a nightmare that that's got to be. You watch these angles and just the way he eats them up. Like he's got to be one of the toughest guys to contain in the NFL. Like there is no pocket with him. Yeah. And it's almost, it's funny you say that because it's crazy. Our back was just sounds like if you do, you're almost not trying to go blow them up or like go get the tackle or something else. Like if you, if you can get it, get it, but if not forced as somebody else. And I think a lot of guys go in there, oh, I'm going to get them. I'm going to get them. I'm going to be the one to get them. And they're the one that misses. So I think it's really, you kind of got to go on in with opposite mentality. Going there and slow your feet down. Don't try to run through his back because he definitely sees you. He just send you up. He's going to spin out or do whatever he needs to do. And he's strong. He has really strong legs. So I think two is not something you can just come in there and try to just grab him a sling to the ground. He'll kind of stroke you off. So it's definitely a different approach that you got to take with him. And you got to use everybody that's involved to truly get him down. And the, the angles that he can throw the football from, I mean, the way he can flip his hips is crazy, dude. Like I feel like he's throwing a ninja star, dude, like some cartoon character. When you see him jump up in the air like that and twist his hips around. And I really do think he's got a chance to be one of the best in the league. Like I think he's already there late in games, but if he can be a little bit more consistent with the process throughout the game, like he's got a chance to be in that elite category. How quickly did you guys kind of earn? Did he earn that respect from you guys? Cause you know, when you got a young quarterback coming in, lot expected of the guy, you know, you definitely like, there's a process with him earning the trust. If I'm putting that correctly, like the position players on the team, like, when did you guys start believing in not just the potential, but the player on the field? It's hard because I mean, on defense, you're watching and going against it. So I think from my perspective, I would say we definitely had the trust. I was like early when he got there, kind of just seeing him throw the ball, seeing some of the throws he made. I think that's kind of when we gave him the trust and the respect, I think, but also at the same time, you gotta understand that he's young and he's coming in figuring out for the first time. So I mean, we understood that there would be some growing pains. Now you're going to come in here and to the point just come and be perfect. So I think for us, we're never expecting that. I think we're, especially for me being here, being on defense is we just wanted a little more than what we were able to get previously. So I think the first year he came in, I think he did. I think I thought he did a really good job. And then the second year, of course, they took it up five notches and started scoring way more points. So I think for us, that's really how the defense is. The only thing you can ask for is take time off the clock, put points up. And I think him and Ben did a really good job with that. Of course, there's always things to improve, but I feel like for him, we all knew he's going to come in and be an elite guy. We just had to wait a little bit for the, I would say, the mental, the maturity part to kind of follow as well. But I mean, that comes with time. That comes with opportunity. And it's so funny, like coming in, you get these preconceived notions about the guy, which I thought were kind of BS because I turn on the tape, the tape says what it says. And, um, you know, I, I don't, I didn't care about a guy crying after he lost or anything like that. I don't care what kind of nails he's got or what bro, like he does the piss out of the football. And he seems, I'm watching him on your sidelines. And he seems like he's grown into a leader. Yeah, for sure. You know, demanding of other guys. Yeah, I think, and tell me you gotta get comfortable. I think it's different when you're, I won't say used to being a guy. I mean, even at Oklahoma, he didn't come in and start from day one. And I'm earning and taking that spot over there. And then kind of just from there, he got comfortable at USC both years. You can just see the growth and improvement even in college coming from being the number one quarterback and all those things. So it's like, if there's some maturing and things that have to go on and the process you go through when you're used to being a guy, I'm sure when you come in and you're trying to find your way, trying to find your groove. I mean, now you're in a whole new city. I mean, there's plenty of things that go into account of people don't necessarily take account for it, but it's a lot. Once you start finding yourself as a man, you start finding your independence, you start finding your voice, then things like that start to pop up on the sidelines, start to pop up in practice. You can start seeing them redo periods, start redoing plays and things like that because he cares and maturity starts coming out. But again, it just takes time. Nobody's surprised with the things that he's doing. We're just waiting to see how quick it happens. Yeah. It's when you're a rookie, I think a lot of people discount for quarterbacks. They want guys to just walk in and take over the locker room, but you're walking into a group fully grown man. Yeah. And you don't want to like overdo it and people be like, dude, what the fuck is this guy? Yeah, it's definitely a balance. Yeah. You got to prove it on the field. You got to do all the right things and then you can kind of turn the dial up on a leadership. But I liked watching him this year. I thought he was in what was your vantage point of that damn the game winner? I'll say the green bag. Yeah. Honestly, I almost want to say the fourth down conversion was probably the craziest one. Yeah. But I think I think for us, especially on defense, I mean, it's four down. Got pressure. It's like, man, this game is about to be over. And then as soon as you put your hand down, everybody goes crazy. It's like, what just happened? And then you see the replaying. It's like, bro, that's crazy how he just always finds a way. I mean, even a Rams game, which is like, man, this game's over. He's going backwards. What is he doing? Well, yeah, what are you doing? No, no, no, no, yes. Doing bro. And then you just see cold catch the ball. It's like, maybe you know something that was, you know, nobody else in the stadium. Yes. I think after a while, it's just like, hey, that's just him at this point. You kind of got to change your perspective and change how you see the game when you're watching him. Because it's like things that may not look right or may be unorthodox. It's like that's that works for him. You talk about guys leaving. Your room's going to look a lot different, huh? Yeah. So you've so you've got a lot of responsibility. I mean, it's not just your responsibility, but obviously like everybody getting on the same page. Yeah. You totally new safety room. I've always been a big fan of Cam Lewis's, you know, Kobe Bryant's a heck of a player. You got good players coming in, but you're missing like your dudes like Byrd and Brisker and CJ Gardner Johnson, who was always had fun watching him play. Right. All those guys like, how do you take inventory of what the room looks like? When does that happen? And is it hard to get on the same page with as little time as guys have now together? I honestly have never felt like it took them. It took a whole lot to change. I mean, I've been through. I had came in, I had Kyle Fuller, I had Eddie Jackson, Sean Gibson and those guys. And then switched over to me, Eddie, Kyler, Jaquon. And then you added to Riegg and Eddie left. And then we added KB. And then I think for me, it was it wasn't ever that hard. I would say as far as trust goes, it's not that hard. I think it's seen it's harder during season, I would say, because you have the coaches coming in, putting in their game plan and how they want to do it and how they see certain things. And then I would say us as a collective in the DV room, we may see how we want to play these concepts or these releases or these splits or whatever a certain way. And it's more so, I would say, in that battle where it's like, we see it this way, but the coach wants to see it this way. So kind of how do we find, I would say that trust between us and the coaches. I think that's probably the hardest thing. But I feel like as far as players go, we're able to relate easy and quickly. I think it's not it's not too much, especially when it comes to concepts, when it comes to certain things. I mean, for me, it's communication never been hard. It's just a real watchtower. So, hey, I see this, get me over here if you can, or really just understanding the defense. Because sometimes, you'll know the safety is leaning this way and he's not going to get you over here. So you can't play routes or you can't play read certain ways and take certain chances because the structure of the defense, I think really the hardest thing is just understanding how you can place on things under the structure of the defense. I think that's really that's the hardest part, but not the players and machine and trusting each other. Does matching a lot of stuff, does that create an uptick in communication and getting on the same page? Like, like, I know you guys match certain concepts with zone defense. Like, is do you do that? Do you kind of get this stuff going and say, hey, we this concept, we're going to we're going to sort this this way, like in the off season, or like you alluded to, does it change? Based on the game plan? Yeah, it honestly changes. And that's, I think, the biggest thing with the off season is you really just installing the defense and kind of just going over all with, I mean, as you know, the camp rules and things that we want to go in going into camp and things like that, how we're going to play it the base way. And then, of course, you have your foundation. And then when you get in the season, everybody's not running the same thing. Everybody has their different ways of doing it. And then you kind of start grouping systems and grouping certain things together based on how they how they do things. But I mean, for the most part, you're not looking too far ahead into what teams want to do in the off season. I think that's the challenge for during season where we have to get on that same page of, hey, when they come out, and they're in this stack, and they split here and come here, and then they come back in. If we're working that, how do you see it? Do you see it as when he first comes out, you take them or I take them? Or do you see it as final whenever they finish doing all their their movement? I think that's stuff that we kind of got to get on the same page. And that's when it's important. Because I mean, really, off season is to master the basics. I feel like and then when you get in the season, and it's now we got executed against a certain game plan. So that's always been my thought on it. Are the Rams, I mean, like to go back to the playoff game, like, are they as tough as anybody at creating traffic and, and, and, you know, eye candy in the screen game, like the fake screens, they weren't a little fake screen in the red zone. And the, you know, like, I just feel like your eyes have got to be really good to play that group. Who else in the NFL do you think does a great job with with with testing your eye discipline? I mean, I would say everybody in the NFC North. Yeah. I mean, definitely. Because I mean, they, I would say that we all kind of have the same system, but they all have their own spin and twist to it for the most part. But I think a lot of it starts with the run game. And then a lot of it is play action. And then how can we get defenders to step up on certain runs? And now I think the Rams, the Niners, I think they do it kind of the best of using their receivers to cause disruption. I mean, even insert blocking and then insert blocking go, and then you have the crack, and then you have the crack and go run over and then you have a crack and run vertical and different things like that. And then with double tight ends, you'll have everybody wash down. Yeah. The inside tight end ended up sneaking out. And it's just little things like that where it's like, you make everything kind of look the same. And then you create something off of that. I think that's, that's one of the hardest things because it's almost danged. If you do danged, if you don't, because if I don't replace fast on the crack, now the running backs up on me and now he's bouncing outside. And I was like, dang, and then when I do go to crack, replace the receiver out and he's not blocking anymore. And it's like, things like that, they definitely slow you down, which is a good tactic. And something that they've definitely cracked the code on as far as the shenahan scheme and all those different things. So it's definitely tough to play. I think for me, I hate when the teams get convinced. I just want to keep me on the keep, keep it on the outside two by two, three by one. Just keep it spread out. Yeah, I can imagine it just like you're in our world with all this traffic and it's like, and decisions have to be made really quick. And then, you know, I, you brought up the insert plays, which to me is like, you got to have guys that can block first off. And they, they got those guys. I mean, they customarily have those guys. I got to figure Pukas. I mean, Cooper was a really good blocker. He's obviously in Seattle. Yeah. And same, you know, the guys in Seattle were willing to block and that sort of thing. But, but yeah, who do you think are the best blocking wide receivers in the league that you're like, man, they put, put their hands on you're like, shit. I'm in rock. Definitely one of those guys. I think Puka, he's strong, but I don't think he, I would say carries the block out as much as kind of those guys. I know Brandon I youth, when he was healthy and playing, he was one of those guys. I would say those are the two that stands out to me. I would definitely say I'm a raw same brown. It's one of the better tight. I'm not one of the better block receivers. Fuck dude. Son of a bodybuilder, bro. Yeah. He's been lifted weights. When he gets down, you got to have some wrestling techniques to get them off you. No question. No question, man. I like seeing wide receivers block, man. You know, some of them like to pass it off. It's fun. It gives it an extra edge because normally when they, when it's a run, we kind of just tap in the little bill. When they actually come to block you, I got to get ready doing the dance, the, the, the chop, chop your feet in place. Just put your hands on the end. No, no, no, no, no, not some of those guys, but talk about your weapons, man. I, I think, uh, I don't think people are ready for this. Luther, Luther burden come up. I mean, he's already, he's already nice. Dude, do you have like a comp for the guy? I feel like, I feel like with the ball in his hands, he's really dangerous. I'm gonna say as far as movements. Rows and after I'll probably say Odell. I mean, oh, people think Odell for one hand catches, but I feel like before he hurt his knee, I would say he was really explosive after the catch, put his foot in the ground and kind of stop, stop and start guy. I think that's definitely Luther's, Luther's game being able to start and stop. That's a big, big, big part of his game. And something that you kind of see, especially when you get the ball in his hand, I think that's something that people don't really remember with Odell, that he'll catch a slant and he can start and stop and get the other way and then being able to go, go 40. So I think for me, that's kind of what I, what I think about as far as that explosiveness after the catch and kind of just starting to stop. Yeah. I mean, the guy, I don't know, I don't know how he, he's listed six foot, but he kind of plays big and yeah. And yeah, he got the mentality, good heart. Yeah. And and what you guys give him shit about his number and bully him out of number 87 because he's had three numbers so far in his career is 87, 13. He finally picked 10. I think 10 is the best looking one. I ain't gonna lie. I can probably change again. I think it's hard because when you first come in, of course the roster is so big. Tell me about it, bro. And then, and then when people start getting cut, it's like, okay, no, I want that number and then somebody else leaves and it's like, okay, no, I'll take that one. Yes. I truly don't think that he wants number 10. I thought he'll probably still try to see what, what opens up after some guys, after some guys leave, if there's anything that he, he like, I'm not sure what that number because I asked you because, because you, you got a like judging by your number, your particular about look good, feel good, play good. You want to have that good looking number, man. Yeah, for sure. For sure. When I got in the league, bro, all the nineties were taken. It was like, you know, 99. You bet not I had a 60 or a 70. No, bro. I loved OCU, Menorah. You remember him? I know the name. See, that's how old I am. Okay. But OCU Menorah wore 72. So I was like, man, fuck it. That's honestly how I felt about number 33. But 33 wasn't bad. It wasn't bad after like I adopted it. But when I first like, When you took it over. Yeah, when I went number 33, I'm like, bro, there's no way this is bad. Man. Is it not it? When I tell you, OCU looks so good in it. And then I put it on. I was like, looking in the mirror one day or looking at myself, I'm like, damn, I need to get out of this ASAP. And, you know, 91 was my college number and 91 was Leonard Little. He was a great player. When he retired, I said, Hey, let me get that. And he said, no problem. Two, three weeks later, head coach calls me. He's like, Hey, his spags in Kansas City goes, I think Leonard could come back this year. Like, so you need to, you need to hold on to 72 for a year. Yeah, it was bad, bro. So Colson Loveland's the other guy. Loveland to me, is he just a nightmare of a matchup for guys? It's like, sometimes you got to like stand next to somebody, see kind of their frame and that sort of thing. I've never been around him. Describe what makes him a little bit different at tight end. Cause, cause I do obviously speeds a big part of it, but the frame seems like it's great. Yeah, I think I want to say he's almost like a hard, but like he's big enough to get in the trenches in the block and do what he needs to do, but he's also small enough to where he can move. Yeah. And I think honestly, he's, he's a nightmare issue because to the point, if you're in 12 or 13 personnel, you can use him as a receiver. It's like the personnel groupings with him in there starts to kind of mean and trigger you a little differently because if it is a 13 personnel, he could be used as a receiver. He can be used as a wing. Yeah. And then if we're in 11, he can be used in tight now. He's on linebackers and I mean different things like everyone spread them out and put them against the safety and body, those guys. So I think he just has a good, a real good combination, I would say of size and a movement ability. I mean, he's not a burner, but he's definitely efficient with his moves. He's quick. He's in and out of his breaks. He has deception at the top of his routes. He, you can definitely tell he, he, he, he likes the craft of playing receiver and moving around and catching a ball. And he's, he's really good catcher. I didn't know that until I would say towards that back half of that season. I'm like, nah, that's, that's all state. You're always in good hands when he got, he's, he's a beast. And I loved it. He's going to catch a lot of balls there, man. And yeah, they said six, six. He's all, he looks like he's all love six, six. I mean, that dude, yeah, no, he definitely gets out, but you put it right. Man. It's the, it's the personnel groupings that, you know, like, especially in today's NFL, like 13 is a totally different thing. You play the Rams. The Rams, they love 13 personnel and they get in it to throw. So anyways, I, you know, like, um, I kind of wonder, you said, everybody's got the same offense, you know, in your division and that sort of thing with different twists, different flavors. What do you think makes Ben's offense different? I don't want to say the creativity, but I want to say the detail. I think it's not anything that is random. Like he's not just in his office trying to find different trick plays or just pull. I think it's, he sees something, he sees tendencies, he sees certain things where it's like, okay, how can I deceive or be deceptive in a way where it's like, okay, if I'm going to do a fleet flicker, what does it look like? What do they bite on? What run concepts are they aggressive on? And what situations are they, are they doing this? Are they doing that to where they're calculated? It's like, just trying to see what the defense are doing. The defense likes to bite on when they're aggressive, how they like to play certain things. And I know for me, I was able to experience the first hand, I want to say the year before, I think it was 2024 where he came to Chicago and they did the fake fall down fumble. And it's funny because the year before that we played Green Bay, one of the first games of the season and they actually fumbled the ball. Everybody kind of stopped their feet and they got way behind us. And I think they ended up throwing us to the tight end or whatever. So when we played them, it was like, high red zone. Again, I mean, I didn't see it because I'm in coverage or whatever, but playing it back, they're like, really look like they fumbled, they fumbled and none of that, we all came to the sideline, man, that's just like a lucky play. And we ended up seeing the play after the game, we was like, bro, that was on purpose. And I ended up asking them, I'm like, how you know that? Like, what made you even like do that? And he was like, I just watched film and I just seen it. And then you kind of just put in your back pocket and you don't really know when you're going to call it. But to me, it's that level of detail where it's like, I'm not just doing things just to do it, but I see certain tendencies. And again, it's like, that was our, that was our structure back then. It's run to the ball, run to the ball, run to the ball, run to the ball. It's like, you see the ball on the ground, everybody's gonna run to the ball. So it's like that level of detail where it's like, okay, I'm just using their aggression against them. You kind of like the balls on the ground, everybody's gonna run up that tight end is way behind you guys. Like I've seen before. And then you go out there and you execute it. Man, it's all that. And then I think he's just one of those guys that you know how some some OCs, not the good ones, they just call plays. They're not calling the game. He's calling the fucking game. And he's calling the season. Like, yeah, he's leaving bread crumbs. You know, he's playing, he's playing seeds to where he can start doing certain things, put certain things on tape. And I said, I didn't ever understand early on where it's just like, how do teams get from being one way beginning to see them to the next way, then to start kind of going back and still scouting where it's like, team are going to go see what you struggle with. So if you struggle with the run and play action pass, even though they may not do it a lot, they're going to run to play action pass you guys because that's what you struggle with. And I think for, for us, that's done that we try to make sure that we do with take certain things off of tape because even like certain run schemes that we just like, bro, we keep getting hit with this, kept getting hit with it, kept getting hit with it, kept getting hit. And it's like, dang, we don't got it. Like almost don't got an answer for it. But it's like, you, you, you, once you put it on tape, you'll probably have for about two or three weeks depending on and if you don't stop it, you don't get it. It's never going to stop. Dude, that's like the biggest thing. If you don't like something, you better fucking stop it. Dude, when he came in, I got so caught up in what we're talking about the scheme that I wondered if he was like he was a dude, right? Like, and I think one of the biggest things that I realized in his, his time with you guys so far is he's, he's got a little dog in him and he's, yeah, he's got, he's got leadership qualities. Like it's not just, he's not just one of these like pencil, pencil pushing OCs man. Like, you know, when, when did you guys pick that up and, and can you speak to his leadership abilities? I mean, you picked it up from day one. Honestly, I'd like when we first had that team meeting in the off season, almost about a year ago now. So I think for me, the biggest takeaway was when I'm trying to win, we're trying to blow people out. And for me, it's like, I ain't never heard nobody say that. They don't want to come in here and win games and do that. I'm just like, you know, I blow people out like this. He's not trying to make it close. And he would just tell stories about how he grew up and tell stories about his dad and the coaching and things like that. And then you can just see, you just see the competitiveness. And I think one thing that I can admire and respect is he's not walking around just trying to like be your friend. And then not to say that he's mean or he's just walking around with a bad attitude, but it's one of those things that's like, nah, we need to come in here and compete. Like this is, we not just come in here to play in these games and like, no, we're trying to win and win in certain way. And everything that he does is really just competitive. So I feel like if you're not on that same wavelength as far as competitiveness, you'll feel like, oh man, being trippin or being this, all the different things. But it's like, nah, he's just, he's just competitor. He just, he don't care. He just wants to go out here and compete. He wants to win. He wants to do his plays. He wants to bury. He wants to embarrass you. That's just kind of part of his MO. And I feel like if you have those same qualities, you look at him like, man, he won us, but if you don't, and it's like, man, being always doing something, why we got to do this? And it's like, man, it is what it is. We got to go out here and practice with no heaters and then go from there. And I know that was our biggest thing. Like, man, we can't have heaters. After the first week is like, man, we know we're not getting heaters. It's okay. We're going to go out here and make sure you layer up, put your your heating pads on or whatever you got to do. And we just going to go out there and do what we got to do. But it ended up working out for us. Man, that's, that's great. And where you got shocked when, when he lost the shirt after that game was the, were you guys surprised? I was kind of swallowed, dude. He was, he's on his P90X or something. Yeah. No, no, no. And now it is funny because like you're seeing walk around and like he had like a stiff back and kind of just like walks around with coffee and it's like, okay, coach, like I'll go in and like feel his back or shoulder and stuff. Like early on, he was kind of, he was kind of big. He was kind of swallowing in through season. He's not eating so much and lifting as much as I like. Cause make sure you take care of yourself. You still lifting. Get back on that career team. And things like that. But now you definitely know that he, he says that tone. He's not walking to your point. He's not walking around your pencil neck and just, okay, I'm just going to put it on my paper. It's like, nah, he, he, he's about business. I know if anything ever happens on the field, I feel like he'll be out there with us. Man, that's great. That's great, man. I'm, I'm, I'm super happy you're getting to enjoy some winning football. And I think next year, the NFC North is going to be a lot of fun. And you guys are kind of right in the middle of it, man. So I look forward to that and I appreciate you coming on the show, Jaylen. Appreciate you. No doubt. Appreciate you.