How To Have Crave-Worthy Sex (Even If You're Burnt Out, Busy, and Exhausted)

A lot of us know the physical benefits of sex by now, the better sleep, the stress reduction, the pain relief. And we know the emotional benefits. We can feel them. We can feel how much closer it makes us feel to our partners. And yet, so many of us still are not having the sex that we want. We are too busy. We are too tired. We're lying in bed after a long day and we're doing the math on whether sex is going to impact the sleep that we desperately need. So I wanted to know, why don't we want to have sex even though we like it, even though it feels good afterward? And how can anyone, no matter how exhausted they are, no matter how long they've been with their partner, have the kind of sex that we get excited to get in bed for? And who better to answer these questions than Dr. Nicole McNichols, an internationally renowned human sexuality professor whose course is the most popular in the history of the University of Washington. She has been studying sex for decades. Her new book, You Could Be Having Better Sex, is absolutely phenomenal. She had answers to all of my questions. She had solutions to all of the sex problems that you guys have shared with me over the years. And she had genius tips that I have never heard anywhere else. Welcome to the Liz Moody Podcast, where we share real solutions that fit into your actual life to the trickiest problems so that you can feel as good as possible every single day. I'm your host, Liz. I've been a journalist for over two decades. I have spent my career learning how to ask the right questions, even if they're taboo, even if they're uncomfy, so that you can get the answers that will actually change your life. And this episode is going to change your life. So let's dive right in. All right, Nicole, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much, Liz. I'm so happy to be here. Can I ask, like, why sex for you? I know that you came into this field because essentially there was like a job opening. Right. But then it became a passion of yours. So like what drew you to it? I did not certainly grow up thinking that I would become a sex professor. It was something that I did step into when the opening came in the department because the professor before me had just broken her leg. And I stepped into the classroom with this idea that what I really wanted my career to be about was helping people who felt lonely and disconnected. But it wasn't until I started teaching this class that I really realized that sex is an area within our lives that we don't really have that sense of connection, right? We kind of think of sex as being this area that's siphoned off from the rest of what we do or the rest of what makes us happy and is important to us. But the more I dug into the literature and the more I taught the class, I realized just how important sex is if we want to be able to live a happy, connected, pleasurable life. How important is it? I know a lot of people who are like, yeah, like I kind of understand it's important, but I haven't been prioritizing it. I don't really have time for it. What I hear from people all of the time is that for them, sex just feels like another thing on their to-do list. It is so important for your mental well-being and your ability to be able to handle all of life's challenges. So there's so much research showing that when we introduce pleasure into our lives, it leads to what's called a broadening effect, meaning that we think more creatively. We're better able to make connections and find sources of social support. We are better able to problem solve and to think about ways that we want to prioritize our life. And the beauty of pleasure is that it literally, at a cognitive neurological level, switches on the parts of your brain that are really good at that. When I stepped into teaching this class, I was six months pregnant with my third child. And I had two younger ones at that point. They were six and four. That level of exhaustion, it made me step away from sexual intimacy with my husband for a little while. It just wasn't something that I really prioritized because I think like so many women, I just felt burnt out, exhausted. We're just taking care of so many other people's needs that we forget about what it is that makes us happy. And we forget about how important it is to be reclaiming our own pleasure so that we can really show up for ourselves. If sex is supposed to be pleasurable, if it's supposed to be so much fun, why does it feel so hard? I think it feels hard for a number of different reasons. But the first is that there just is so much shame and stigma around it that we're not really taught about how to have a pleasurable sexual experience, right? We're not really taught how to communicate. And, you know, particularly when we're looking at low sexual desire in women, often the case that the reason you're not really looking forward to sex is because the sex that you're having just isn't that great to begin with? If you're just sort of adhering to stale sexual scripts that kind of go, okay, we start kissing, that's foreplay. Then we, you know, either maybe have like a tiny bit of oral and then go straight to penetration and then an orgasm or, you know, he comes and then it's done, right? That's pretty boring sex. I mean, that's not sex that's really leading to any kind of creative expression or pleasure, especially if you're a woman. There's a huge orgasm gap in culture today, right? If you ask straight women and men the last time they had sex, if they had an orgasm, 95% of guys will say they did and about 65% of women will say they did, which means we're kind of not serving women well when it comes to pleasure. And yet one of the biggest predictors of desire for sex, of wanting sex, anticipating it is orgasm expectancy. So if you're just having sex and going through the motions and not expecting it to be pleasurable and haven't been having orgasms in the past to make you think that it should be pleasurable, you're going to find that it really just falls flat. I think it's important to really kind of explore your body, understand your pleasure zones, understand exactly the types of touch and technique that work for you so that the sex feels pleasurable and satisfying. So you're six months pregnant. You start teaching this class. What did you do specifically to bring that desire back into your own life? I felt like I started developing a sense of entitlement. We tend to think that entitlement is always a bad thing, but having a sense of entitlement is a huge aphrodisiac for female sexuality. Then creating what I call an intimacy date that I scheduled regularly into my relationship. And, you know, I call it an intimacy date because people, you know, when they hear the term scheduling sex, they often think, oh my God, you know, that's what my parents did. Wednesday night is sexy night. Ew, no, no way I'm doing that. And I get it, right? I mean, nobody wants to go from productivity mode straight into like unloading the dishwasher to, okay, it's Wednesday night, let's just hop into bed. So what really began to sort of turn things around for me was planning one night a week where my husband and I would make sure that we had hired a babysitter or put the kids to bed early and that we were going to make time for ourselves in a way that would invite sex without creating the demands of a contract. In other words, we weren't saying no matter what, we are going to have sex. We're saying we're going to find time. We would go out to dinner or we would cook. If we cooked, we made sure that we both did the dishes. It wasn't something that led to more exhaustion. But we just found that by setting that really intentional time apart, where we could ask each other questions like beyond just what was your day like, right? Or did you call back the teacher? That really by kind of leaning in to understanding what our hopes and dreams were, right? Like understanding what was it that we wanted out of life, right? Asking those questions that we don't really have time for on a day-to-day basis. How are you feeling generally in our relationship? And then even introducing questions, you know, more successively. For example, I always recommend leaning on the question of, well, what's the best sex we've ever had, right? And looking at what are the types of sexual experiences that have led to so much pleasure in the past, because those can really be the launching pad towards other types of sexual experiences that can make us feel even better. So it was really about creating that intimacy date and seeing where that left. It also just, you know, it gives you time. One of the most important things, I think, to get into the mindset for sex is just appreciating how central a role our nervous systems are, right? If we're all activated and in hyper-productivity mode, we can't expect ourselves to just turn that off and jump into bed and be responsive. So it was really that slowing down intentionality, being just really planful about, okay, we're going to set aside this intimacy date and we're going to hope that it leads to something intimate without the pressure, but just showing that we really care about each other and really prioritize intimacy. Yeah, it's interesting because every single sex expert I've had on the podcast has recommended scheduling sex, which I think is funny because universally people, listeners are like, that's crazy. I feel like when you're just scheduling sex, it's literally like adding another thing to this to-do list that is already exhausting you. So it's like 8 p.m. It's on the Wednesday you schedule the sex and you're like, oh my gosh, okay, so we got to go have sex right now. And I like that you're like, no, we're creating an invitation for it, but mostly we're creating an invitation for our nervous system to just like relax a little bit to make sex a possibility. Exactly, Liz. And that's what I've found too, is when I introduce this idea, often sex therapists will say, oh yeah, no, scheduling sex, that's a great idea. I tell people, you know, even if you're in the middle of folding the laundry, if it's that time, go jump into bed and have sex. No. The last, are you kidding me? If my husband tries to initiate sex when I'm halfway through folding a basket of laundry, I'm annoyed in that scenario. It's like, well, we scheduled sex. It starts to feel transactional and contractual. I don't think that that's what leads to great pleasurable sex. I think we really, as you said, need to take into account this mindfulness aspect and center our central nervous systems so that we can just get into that headspace that really invites real pleasure and connection. What's other common sex advice that you think is maybe wrong? I hate the advice that mystery builds desire. I think that is so unhelpful. And if you dig into the research, it's just blatantly not true. Wait, so what are we talking about? Should we be pooping in front of each other? Okay, so let's take pooping in front of each other. Pooping in front of your partner, that's conflating mystery with over-familiarity, okay? We don't want to be so over-familiar with our partners that we're doing all of our, you know, natural but kind of disgusting things in front of each other, right? Because think about it. If you are my partner and I'm pooping in front of you, that's not closeness. That's acting like you're invisible. It's like I'm acting like you don't even exist. Like I'm not trying to be sexy for you and show you that I'm excited to be your partner because I want to hold that kind of autonomy. Okay, but where's the line between that and, you know, I need to have a perfect face of makeup whenever I see you? Like, where's the line between I want to show up as my real whole self in front of you versus, you know, maybe I should keep this for me. I think we need to get more into the psychological components of mystery, right? Because it's not even just about personal habits. It's more this idea of, well, you know, you guys just need to spend more time apart. You should just be having more trips away with your girlfriends or guy friends. Look, I'm all for a good girl's trip or a good guy's trip, but that's not what's going to build desire in your relationship. There's decades and decades of research by the Gottmans and other researchers like them that have just found that what really builds that sexual attraction is a sense of leaning into your partner, developing what we call a love map, right? A love map is what we call a cognitive schema that you fill in with all of the hopes and dreams and fears and insecurities and anxieties and interests and silly little things like just how they like their coffee, right? I mean, all of these little things, even the little details, when we know those about our partner, when we show that we recognize that, that is hot. On both sides? Because I feel like a lot of people might say, well, that's hot for women when men know all these little things and have little tabulations, but men, you know, want this certain body type and this like notion we've been portrayed in movies and culture is hot. Like it's a different thing. Or do you find that true? Does the research show that's true universally? It's the research definitely shows that this is true universally. Women are objectified culturally for sure, right? But in a long-term relationship, it becomes so much less important. Most partners aren't sitting there objectifying their long-term partners and thinking, oh, this mystery is going to be based off of what your appearance is. It's usually going to be driven from more of a deeper psychological level at that point, because the biggest thing that drives couples apart and I think diminishes their sex lives doesn't have to do with makeup or even gaining a few pounds. It's just about this idea that you just stop connecting with each other. It's that you start building resentments. You start taking each other for granted. Back to this myth that I hate, which is that mystery builds desire. I would say mystery does not build desire. Gratitude builds desire. Gratitude is hot. When someone looks at you, and yes, going back to this gender divide, right? Looking at men, Like when you recognize your husband and, you know, he's done something that is, you know, maybe not perfect, but is really helpful and it's made you feel better about something and it's been useful. Look, love languages, not totally backed by science, but yet a helpful framework to identify how are the ways that my partner can show up for me that will make me happy. when he satisfies one of those love languages or, you know, for me, it's all of them. Just do all of them. Recognize that, right? Show gratitude for that because that's going to make you feel seen and that is what's going to lead to a hotter sex life. So one of the reasons for low libido is we're just not having pleasurable enough sex to actually crave it. What are other reasons for low libido? There's actually these three different layers that really kind of impact low desire. When you look at low desire, especially in the context of a straight relationship, there's sort of the question of, is this a me problem or is this a we problem, right? Meaning, am I feeling low desire because I'm going through perimenopause or menopause and my hormones are tanking and lots of research coming out on the benefits of HRT and testosterone therapy that can be magnificent for women who are struggling with that? Or is it because I'm struggling with low body image and I get into my head during sex and I can't achieve that sense of sexual mindfulness that's so critical for pleasure, right? So much research showing how body image can just really take us out of the moment of sex. Is it that I feel like I'm a little bit lost in life and I'm just not feeling joy in other aspects of my life? and so I'm suffering from a low level of anxiety and depression and that's coming into my life, right? So there could be things that are going on individually for her. But then there could just be things that are relational dynamics. There was a massive study that came out last year showing that just as important as menopause and perimenopause, what's contributing literally just as much when you look at the data to low desire in women is just the exhaustion that women feel. right? Just exhaustion from managing everything in their lives that just feels so overwhelming. And that just feels so like no matter what they do, they're never going to be enough, right? That is going to be impacting your low desire just as much as the hormones, right? Or just as much as body image issues if you're struggling with that. And these are just things that are just kind of from a third hierarchical level, sociocultural factors that are weighing in. Even though women are starting to out earn men and progress more rapidly in their careers and they're getting college degrees at a higher rate. What we see is that the way this translates into division of household labor is that actually the women who are accelerating more in their careers and out earning their husbands, if anything, they're not taking a step back. They're doing more of the household labor. Right. When you're existing in a relationship like that, of course, sex is going to start to feel like a chore. Right. Of course, it's going to start to feel like something that you just one more thing on my to do list that my husband says he wants. Who wants that kind of sex? So if we're listening to this and we're trying to kind of figure out, we're like, OK, I know that I don't really feel like having sex very often. How do I know whether it's my hormones or the type of sex that I'm having or I'm too exhausted? Like, how do we begin to suss that out? I think that if you were, first of all, at an age where you're going through perimenopause and menopause and you've started to notice changes in your body, you should absolutely talk to your medical provider about that. I definitely say we want to start with the physical. And so making sure that you are healthy and that you are not struggling with underlying anxiety or depression, right? Because all of these things are going to be feeding into your sex life. But you also need to get in touch with your body to understand that, look, only 18% of women can have an orgasm from penetrative sex alone. The rest needs some kind of clitoral stimulation. So get familiar with your body, right? Learn the types of techniques that are going to work for you. Take care of your physical health, right? And then get into this place of trying to clear out what I call your mental erotic space, which really means digging into these aspects of what's getting in my way of really feeling present during sex, right? Cognitively, what's going on for me. Masters and Johnson, they were these researchers who brought in couples and actually had them have sex in a lab. They hooked up all these electrodes to them to watch what was happening in their bodies, right? Which led to incredible advancements in sex therapy. What they found is that people can get so distracted during sex because they're worried about what their body looks like or they're worried about if they turn the coffee machine off or what's that beeping is the dryer done or what's going to happen you know with that presentation I need to give tomorrow that you almost start observing yourself during sex from like this third party perspective it's called spectatoring when you start spectatoring right during that moment literally the exact parts of your brain that are supposed to be quieting namely the prefrontal cortex and all the parts of the brain that are meant to be, you know, thinking, comparing, controlling, like thinking about consequences. Those parts are activating when you're spectatoring. And what you need to have happen in order for the pleasure centers of your brain to activate is for those areas to quiet, right? When we look at brains and fMRIs, the pleasure center is lit up during orgasm. That prefrontal cortex is quieted, right? The thinking parts of the brain are quieted. So by carving out your mental erotic space, you need to be looking at what are these sources of stress, right? Or what are the body image issues that are getting in my way so that you can really practice sexual mindfulness, right? Which is a concept that was developed by Dr. Lori Brado at the University of British Columbia. So you can really become mentally present. So I would say you need to start at that level where you're focused on the sensations in your body during sex. focused on what feels good, focused on the sexual cues of your partner, focused on what feels exciting and creative. And if you have fantasies that are happening in your mind at the same time, you can absolutely be mindful while that's going on as well, too. Right. But the idea is that you want to be present because when we're present and this comes from research on sexual mindfulness, but also research on happiness, you know, we're happier. We're just better able to experience pleasure when we're present. It's hard to be present, but we need to be present during sex. And that's what's really going to lead to all the multiple orgasms that we want to be having. Oh, we're going to get into multiple orgasms. Don't worry. You've mentioned body image a few times. If that's something that we struggle with, what is your best advice there? First of all, know that millions and millions of people struggle with body image, right? And not just women, men too. Think about the fact that men are primarily the main consumers of online porn. Women watch a lot of porn too. But what are you seeing? You're seeing these perfectly fit, hard bodies that have giant genitals, right? I did a whole TikTok on the average size of a penis, which is actually only five and a half inches long. I find the penis thing so fascinating because Because I'm just like, I don't know any women, like literally not a single girlfriend who's like, all I want in life is a giant penis. I don't know a single one. And then the fact that men are still measuring some sort of level of worthiness based on this. I'm so confused by it. Oh my gosh. Is it just because of porn? It's, well, okay. A couple of things. First of all, you're spot on and sex researchers have done studies on this. Nicole Prowse did a giant study looking at what do women prefer when it comes to penis size? And she literally had a whole bunch of women come into a lab and look at a whole bunch of pictures of penises of all different sizes and shapes. And what she found is that the one they rated as being the most ideal on average was like maybe a quarter of an inch longer than what the average penis size Yeah, but you don't want something ginormous because it's painful. Yeah, it's painful. Ouch. But back to your question. Yes, that's why men think that we all want people to have these enormous penises because that's what we see in porn. We see 12 inch penises that are ejaculating fluids like from here to all across your studio. And no, we don't need that for pleasure. And if we're going to get into the nitty gritty, because let's explain why we don't want that. The clitoris, right? The clitoris has both external and internal structures. Sadly, we did not learn this until 2006 when somebody finally, yes, thank you, Dr. Helen O'Connell, who finally put clitorises into an MRI and looked at their whole structures. But if you imagine that my microphone is a clitoris, it's not just the external portions, right? it has these internal portions. And these internal portions, the cur of the vestibular bulbs, they're wrapping around the vagina. And so what this means is that for vaginal stimulation to feel good, it's really going to feel best if it's just two to three inches inside the vagina on the upper wall because that's stimulating these internal structures of the clitoris. Anything else is going to kind of have to back up. If you really want to get technical, as I love to do with penises, girth does matter a little bit more than length. Again, because if there's more girth, it's pushing up on those inner walls of the vagina, which is again, getting those internal structures of the clitoris. But most men have plenty of girth. And you could do a lot of stuff with angles around that too, right? Exactly. And most women are not coming from penetrative sex anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So bring us back to body image. Men think they need, you know, rock hard body and a ginormous penis, but women are also struggling with body image issues. Of course. Right. And so women are being made to feel like they need to be absurdly thin and they need to have perfect perky breasts and flat stomachs and no flab anywhere. We've all heard, oh, what you see in the media isn't real. Stop comparing yourself to models. We've all heard that advice. But at a cognitive level, we actually are going to start comparing ourselves to those images whether we want to or not, right? And so we're constantly going to be faced with things about our body that we don't love. But my message is that that's okay. like maybe the first step to help all of us, literally all of us heal from this is to just kind of all join hands and step forward and understand the pressure that we're under. One thing that I think can be really healthy is to simply look at yourself in the mirror, right? Look at something that you love about your body. It might be your eyelashes, right? It could be your fingers. It could be that you love your shoulders. It could be that you love your clavicle, right? But almost all of us should be able to find at least one thing that we genuinely love about our bodies, right? And really try to focus on that. And beyond that, change your perspective from, I'm going to be judging my body and I care about how it looks and I care about how it's showing up to other people to showing an appreciation for all that your body does for you. This is something that really helped me after I had kids. And even though I'm aware of all this body image stuff, even I can fall into this trap of looking in the mirror and feeling like I don love the way my stomach looks right But then I see my kids and I think about the fact that my body did this really extraordinary thing which was to grow three human beings And how amazing is it that it did that And then I can kind of come to peace with it. I can't say I look in the mirror and think my stomach is my favorite part of my body, but I can definitely feel like, you know what? It reminds me of this incredible thing I did. And it's gotten me through some pretty magical years in my life. So how about I not focus on that and instead focus on things that are going to make me feel good? Your body is for living, not looking is one of my life mottos. I love that. And I do find the more that like moment to moment, I can focus on like how am I living in my body? Like literally in sex, on a hike, on a walk, while I'm eating, anything I can do to focus on like how am I living in my body? What's the sensation of living in my body is really, really helpful for me. I love that. I love that. I'm curious, is there any research on how things like cellulite or stretch marks impact men's attraction levels? Not nearly as much as you think. I mean, I don't know of any studies that have taken stretch marks or cellulite literally as an independent variable in a study. But I will tell you, just from talking to millions of people about sex, they're happy to be there, Liz, right? They're psyched. the people that we feel the most attracted to, they're not necessarily the ones that if you were to line them all up are the most physically attractive. There's usually something about just the energy that they're giving off that makes us feel like there's someone that we just vibe with. Another way to answer that question is just to look at research from neuroscience, right? Which shows that again, when you're sexually aroused, that part of your brain that is comparing and judging and making sort of those negative types of comparisons is quieted literally through the act of sexual arousal, right? When sexual arousal happens, it's more of an in-body excitement where your body and mind are turned on and are just excited to be with the person that's in front of you. I am curious though, because I've heard from listeners on all sides who maybe their partner has gained some weight, their partner has done something, and they feel less attracted to their partner and they feel a lot of guilt about that and they don't know what to do about it. So what do we do if we run into a situation where our partner maybe looks different in some way and we're less attracted to them? Here's the thing. It's rarely just about the physical weight, right? Like I have friends too, right? Who feel like, okay, we got married 25 years ago and he's gained 30 pounds and I feel like I've worked really hard to stay fit and he's just not as in shape anymore. That's a very typical scenario. If you think about it, what is that signal, right? If your partner you feel in your mind has kind of let themselves go, it kind of goes back to this over-familiarity piece we talked about where when you care so little about the other person who you're in a relationship with that you're not able to really care at all about your appearance, right, that that can start to feel like your partner might feel invisible because of that. I want to be careful here, because I'm certainly not saying that if you gain 20 or 30 pounds, you know, you're not being a good partner. I'm certainly not saying that. It's like you're looking forward in life and you have this life view that health and fitness and taking care of yourself is important. And you feel like your partner who's not doing that is just kind of on a different page than you, right? I think it's that sense of feeling like you're on a different page in terms of your outlook and your values that leads to the decrease in attraction more than just the pure weight gain. It's really about kind of getting at those underlying things to be able to address, well, you know, what is it that's really bothering me about this weight gain? Because I think it's usually about more than just the physical appearance. When it comes to wellness, you're going to get the best results by focusing on the big needle movers. A lot of us spend a lot of time trying to optimize that last 1%, which creates a ton of stress, and it actually doesn't help our health that much. At the top of the needle mover list, sleep. And one of the best ways to optimize your sleep is to optimize your mattress, which is why I love Avocado Green Mattress so much. First of all, this mattress is so comfortable. 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And then the classic Chetty Mac, which tastes like the cheddar mac and cheese of your childhood. They also have vegan and gluten-free options, which Zach always keeps on hand. There's really fun, fancier ones, like they have a cachoe pepe. And most flavors are low glycemic, so you get steady energy instead of that carb crash. Plus, it's Clean Label Purity Award certified, which means it's been tested for hundreds of contaminants. Also, I have to shout out that you can also just buy the noodles. So you're going to get a lot of those benefits, and then you can use them in any pasta recipe. I am telling you that you need good old mac and cheese in your life. picks them up on your next shopping trip. It's available nationwide at Target, Walmart, and many major grocery stores. Trust me, you and your whole family are gonna love it. You've probably seen red light everywhere lately. And honestly, I was really skeptical of it. Like how can one thing help with hair growth and skin and period cramps and thyroid health and energy? So I brought Dr. Vivian Chen, the founder of Loombox onto the podcast, and she finally explained the science in a way that made all of it make sense. The short version is red light targets your mitochondria, which is the powerhouses of your cells. So it literally gives your cells more energy to repair, regenerate, and function better. That's why you can get all these localized benefits like less knee pain or better skin or a calmer stomach, and you get more systemic energy. In fact, there are over a thousand studies showing benefits from quicker COVID recovery times to healthier thyroid function, to less depression and anxiety, to joint pain, to skin health and hair and scalp health, all of these things because the red lights work on the mitochondria in the different places that you put it. And then they also work on your body as a whole. Dr. Vivian gifted me her red light and I dove into the research around it. And then Zach and I both tried it for over six months. And I loved it so much that I literally begged her to become a podcast partner so that I could get a discount code for you. I have been gifted so many red lights over the years. It's a perk of this job. And this is the only one that I feel like actually helps with those deeper issues. That's because it has higher irradiance, which is essentially the dose. And it's a metric that a lot of red light companies do not even disclose. And also it uses red light, which helps with the surface level stuff and near infrared light, which is going to penetrate deeper into the cells. You just put it over whatever area you want to target. So I put it over my lower belly to help with period cramps. It makes a huge difference. I use it for headaches. and it makes them basically go away from me. Or I'll just sit with my Lume Box during a short meditation or breath work for mitochondrial support and for my skin health. I have gotten so many compliments about my skin since I started using it. Lume Box is third-party tested for irradiance and wavelength and it's FDA registered, which is so, so rare. I think of a lot of red lights as more like beauty gadgets and this is more like a medical device that can also be used for beauty as well. Plus it's portable, so you can use it anywhere on your body and you can also take it on vacation with you. Now is the perfect time to try Loombox. They've got a Valentine's Day sale coming up, but you can get early access and 45% off with my link. 45% off, you heard that right. Just head to theloombox.com slash Liz to get early access. It's live until February 8th. That is theloombox.com slash Liz for 45% off. If we wanna be one of those couples whose sex life just gets better and better with time, what should we be doing? I'm sure you've heard the advice before that novelty is key, right? And this is true in just about every aspect of life, right? I think people get kind of overwhelmed with the idea of novelty because they think it means you've got to go to a sex shop and, you know, dress up as like a dominatrix or get out the handcuffs. And, you know, that can just feel really unsexy and unfun to a lot of people. For some, it'll feel amazing. I actually have a dominatrix who comes to my class every single quarter. I am all for literally whipping out the whips and chains if that's what you're into, right? That's fantastic. But I really want to reach the people who feel like, oh my God, there's no way I would ever feel comfortable doing that. But yet I know novelty is important. And the answer is micro novelty. It doesn't have to be this huge grand gesture, right? There's reams of research looking at the types of techniques that are most likely to lead to orgasm in women and just maybe looking at that, right? Like looking at the techniques that I discussed because it might be trying, you know, doggy style while standing instead of sitting. It could be reverse cowgirl instead of cowgirl. It could be introducing a sex toy during sex. It could be a little bit of light dirty talk. It could be the lead up. It could be practicing more kissing during sex, which research shows increases the chance of orgasm for women during sex. Have sex in a different room. Have sex at a different time of day. Make a date to go away with your partner someplace on vacation and experience the natural novelty that's just embedded in that kind of an experience. It's, you know, there's a reason we tend to have better sex on vacation, right? It's that novelty piece. But again, the good news is you don't need an astronomical amount of novelty to reap the benefits. The research shows that on average, if you introduce one form of novelty into your sex life a month, you will have increased levels of sexual satisfaction. But then it kind of plateaus after that, right? In other words, you don't need to be doing something crazy new every single time you have sex. That's exhausting. It's okay to have your bread and butter things that always make you feel really good and that do the job. You're not boring if you always want to have those things in your sexual repertoire. But if you can introduce kind of just different flavors, right? So that is in the bedroom. What about outside of the bedroom? You talk about the four types of intimacy. Can you get into those? So people think that intimacy is just sex. But there are so many other types of incredible, wonderful forms of intimacy that we can not only enjoy, but that when we give attention to are going to help the intimacy that we have in the bedroom. One type is something I call intellectual intimacy. This is sharing ideas. Maybe it's about books you've read or it's about your worldview or even just something that's, you know, as silly that you just kind of see that gives you sort of a feeling of delight and you send a snapshot to your partner. Right. Anything that kind of lights you up mentally. When we feel like our partner, again, understands what we find interesting and then responds to the thing that's lighting us up and feels interesting, we're going to feel connected to them. Again, guess what? There's going to be less mystery because we're going to know them better, but we're actually going to feel a greater feeling of attraction for them because we now have that different side of them that we didn't know that they were interested in about before. Another example is what I call aesthetic intimacy, right? And so this is just admiring some form of beauty together. It could be admiring an incredible sunset. It could be enjoying an incredible meal together, sharing an incredible bottle of wine. Whatever it is, something that just brings you a sense of appreciation and awe for the beauty of the object or the sight or the smell that you can share with your partner. Again, that brings you more together, right? We can talk about the excitement that we feel when we connect with our partner over our view of the future. I remember when I fell in love with my husband, we used to talk so much about what it was that we wanted, right? And when we were getting married, talking about kids and where we might want to work and what kind of job we might want to have and where we might want to travel. Okay, so what type of intimacy is that? Future intimacy. So for example, when I was planning this trip to come see you and be on your podcast, I had this idea that maybe it would be an experience I could share and plan with my husband. So he's flying down. We're going to this restaurant that we've been reading about and are dying to go to tonight. We're staying at a hotel. Who knows what will happen there? And then we're going back tomorrow to Seattle to our kids, right? So this is that experience, right? We would say kind of is blending two different types of intimacy. The planning part of it, right? The excitement I felt in my kitchen talking to him about plans while he was cooking dinner and, you know, booking the restaurant and the hotel and the flights. That's the future intimacy because you're talking about something exciting that you're doing in the future, right? It's the anticipation point. It's, you know, back to the pleasure cycle. Sometimes that wanting anticipation phase is the most pleasurable, right? So it's really kind of harnessing that power of anticipation. that brought us closer. But then tonight, when I'm actually tasting the food with him and sharing that experience and being at the hotel, I would label that more as aesthetic intimacy because we're sharing something that, you know, we both love food. And so we're both sort of admiring the quality of that. And the planning doesn't have to be sex related, right? The idea is like you can be planning, oh, we're going to save up and buy this house together. And that creates intimacy. and then that intimacy is going to enhance your life in the bedroom, even though it's happening outside of the bedroom. A million percent. All of these are types of intimacy that have nothing to do with sex, except that if you foster them, they will make your sex life better. Would you go so far as to say that if we don't feel like we are having great sex or we don't feel like our libido is where we want it to be, and we've kind of like gone through and checked the other stuff we've talked about, maybe we could be missing one of these four types of intimacy? I definitely think that one of the mistakes people make is thinking that their sex life is simply going to get fixed in the bedroom. But in fact, there are all of these other types of forms of intimacy that are so critical. If you want to, again, create that place, that erotic mental space that you can travel to with your partner where you're both in the mood for sex. Right. If you again, going back to our example of the person who's folding the laundry and suddenly it's seven o'clock on Wednesday. and they've scheduled sex, right? That's not going to work if you haven't been doing all these other forms of intimacy. Okay, so we've said three. What's the fourth type of intimacy? So the fourth is spiritual intimacy, right? And before you get worried that this is all woo-woo, it's not, don't worry. If you are religious, right? Absolutely, through having a sense of shared faith, it could be something that brings you together in that way and that you feel a sense of connection. But even if you're not religious, So spiritual intimacy is about just sharing the same worldview, right? It's about what do you value? Like, do you value kindness and generosity and creativity? Or maybe it's that you both really take a lot of pride and value in how you're raising your children and your family or how you're contributing to your communities and the types of volunteer experiences that you're generating. It could be a shared sense of purpose in your activism, if you're political, any of these different types of beliefs, values, causes, whether they're personal and just within your own family or related to the greater world. If you feel a sense of connection in those, that's going to be really good for your relationship. And this is one of the reasons why people who are in a relationship who have very different political beliefs can really struggle, right? Because you're really not experiencing that spiritual intimacy. So the scene in movies that we see where they're like yelling at each other and they're on totally different pages and they have totally different belief systems. And then one person like kisses the other person and pushes them up against the wall and they have super hot sex. Is that not something that happens in real life? I think that's just really great TV and movies, but does not happen in real life. It's the opposite. I think you're more likely to have hot sex if your partner comes home and you found out that they just donated money to your favorite cause. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's hot sex to watch on TV, but it's setting up a very false narrative about what leads to excitement and desire. Speaking of false narratives, let's see. I wrote down a stat from your book. During sex, orgasm occurs about 13 minutes in. Yes. This is a lot longer than most people think, certainly a lot longer than is ever portrayed in media. Yes. And I feel like people thinking it should be shorter. I have a lot of girlfriends that's causing a lot of shame for. I have a lot of male friends that's causing a lot of shame for because they're like, am I bad at sex if four minutes in I haven't made her come? Can you just talk to us a little bit about length of time to achieve orgasm for women? Absolutely. When we look at that research, right, we have to keep in mind that it's not that women are having a vaginal orgasm 12 minutes into sex. They might be, right? Many might be. But it's that the sexual experience has warmed up and maybe they're having an orgasm from vaginal sex or maybe they're having it from oral sex or some other type of activity. The reality, though, is that because the type of sex that we kind of focus on and use as the model in our experiences that we see in the movies and the media is penetrative sex, we tend to think, oh, well, that's the script I need to follow if I'm going to be giving her an orgasm, you know, quote unquote, because, again, we view it as this goal-oriented procedure. when the reality is that it takes real attention to the clitoris for a woman to be able to have an orgasm most of the time. And so, yes, it's going to take a little bit longer. But here's the thing that's fascinating. A lot of people think, oh, well, women are just not as orgasmic as men, right? If it just takes them longer, then that means that they're just can't have orgasms as easily. But when you look at studies where women are masturbating and men are masturbating, and you compare the minutes it takes from the beginning of masturbation to orgasm, it's exactly the same, Liz. It's four to five minutes for both men and women, right? And so the reason for that is that there's direct clitoral stimulation usually when a woman is masturbating. In other words, she's touching herself in the exact way she wants to be touched. So when a woman is touched exactly the way that she wants to be touched and that her body most responds to, she is just as orgasmic and will come just as quickly as a guy. Wait, so I'm like, these men are feeling shame because it's taking longer than they thought. And are you kind of like, yeah, they should be. Okay, so I think that, you know, it really depends on like how that sexual experience is unfolding. Okay. I think that we as a culture love to focus on minutes and we love to focus on duration and time and because again, we're treating sex as this like goalposts that we need to get through, right? And so, no, like it's totally okay if it's taking you 12, 13, 14, 15 minutes. Maybe the orgasm you have at the end of 12, 13, 14 minutes is more intense and powerful and full-bodied than the orgasm that you would have four to five minutes in. It might be that, yes, if you're looking at penetration, men are going to come usually about five minutes into sex. but it's okay you know if it's taking a little bit longer for your female partner there doesn't need to be this race or this pressure put on each other to have sex in a certain way in a certain number of minutes that's just going to detract from the experience and it even gets back to this question of how important is orgasm first of all I was going to ask you that because I have a lot of girlfriends who they're like they don't come regularly when they have sex particularly with new partners. It takes like a while to get in there, but they really like the intimacy and the connection that they're building with their partner via sex. Exactly. Orgasm matters, but it shouldn't be the only goal of sex, right? So I think that we get to a problematic place when we start simply equating orgasm with great sex. First of all, I can think of lots of times when I was single, when I had an orgasm and the sex was not that particularly amazing. And I can think of lots of sexual experiences I've had where I didn't have an orgasm, but it was amazing and connected and exciting and fun, right? So why didn't you have an orgasm in those cases? The exact same reason that you described for your friends when I was in my 20s, just with a new partner. It just really depended. I would say that with the best sexual experiences, I did have an orgasm. But it wasn't something where I felt like it had to happen in order for the sexual experience to be pleasurable. You know, and I want to tread lightly because there is data showing that when you look at, for example, emotional outcomes of casual sex, that, you know, we all are used to hearing about this huge gender divide where the sex experience tends to be way better for men. You hear how it's horrible for women, sexual double standard. Obviously, there are physical risks involved. But when it comes to objective emotional outcomes to casual sex, as soon as women start having orgasms, that difference between genders in terms of how likely they are to enjoy it completely goes away. So orgasm definitely is important, but you don't need to have an orgasm every single time you have sex with your partner. Sometimes one person might feel like they're really in the mood and their partner is not so much in the mood. That's okay. And, you know, maybe it's that you make out with your partner and use their vibrator on them that night. And then maybe, you know, a few weeks later, they're in the mood, but you're not. And you give them a handjob, right? There can be lots of playful types of sexual experiences that don't always lead to both partners having an orgasm. But having said that, I don't want to say orgasm doesn't matter because I think that does women particularly a disservice. just because the orgasm gap does exist and it does represent a larger neglect of female pleasure in general. What's one tip that women could have to experience their odds of having an orgasm? During partnered sex? Communication. Give instructions. What if you don't know though? I've heard from numerous sex educators and you have to one, know like that you want it faster, you want it slower, you want it more to the left, you want it more to the right. And then two, you have to feel comfy saying that. And those are two big asks. Yes. So first of all, we are terrible at predicting exactly what's going to necessarily make us feel happy or feel good. There's so much research on this showing that when we think we know it's going to make us happy, we're actually usually very far off. And the reason is that we rely on what we saw in Bridgerton, right? Heated rivalry, right? We're all subject to falling for the scripts that we see. And so instead of trusting what feels good in the moment, we're relying on what we think should make us feel happy, what should feel pleasurable. And the antidote to that very strongly is this idea of sexual mindfulness paying attention to the exact sensations in your body and letting those be your guide Because our entire body all of the nerves on our skin all over our one giant erogenous zone that shouldn't be neglected. So if you can just bring your mind to focusing on those sensations and let those guide what you're asking for, what you want, what feels good, you're much more likely to experience pleasure than you are if you're thinking about, oh, well, I saw this on that porn site or I saw this in Bridgerton. So that's probably going to be really hot and lead to an orgasm for me. That's why masturbation is so critically important, right? And people think, oh, I know I'm supposed to masturbate. But no, really, like masturbate and get out a mirror. And I don't mean just take a quick look. Get to know your anatomy, your clitoris, your inner labia, your outer labia, the whole area, all of it so well so that when you are masturbating, when you are looking and seeing what feels good to you, you're really making this mental map. And then it's about understanding that sexual communication can come in all different shapes and forms. Would it be wonderful if everyone felt really comfortable saying, I want you to speed up. I want you to slow down over here, over there. Yes, of course. Right. But verbal words are not the only type of communication that exists to us. Like, yes, that's amazing. But you can also use slight shifts in your body, initiating things that might feel good, shifting a partner's finger over like a millimeter of an inch, which is often the difference between what feels meh and what feels incredible, right? You know, maybe saying, oh, that felt really good. Can you do that again? Right. Or more small words, small phrases. Don't worry if the whole conversation in the moment with a new partner doesn't feel natural. That's okay. But you need to invite these phrases so you can practice it. But I think if we're talking about people who are in long-term relationships, that's where I think it's just really helpful to think of sexual communication as a cycle. And yeah, it could mean during sex saying, I want to be touched here, do this, do that. But it also really hinges heavily on the sort of the pregame, as I call it, right? The conversations that you're having before. I mean, which is why I would say to a couple that was looking to do one thing tonight to make their sex life better, sit on the couch with your partner and ask them, what's the hottest sex we've ever had? Where did we touch each other? What did we do? How did it unfold? Where were we? What was the emotional tone in the air? what, you know, led up to it. So much research showing that when we use positive communication, talking to our partners about what we want more of, not that we shouldn't be afraid to say what we don't want. It's just that sex is a really vulnerable activity. And if our partners and ourselves are feeling criticized, that can easily lead to feeling rejected. And then that completely shuts down arousal. But if you can focus on the positive and build excitement about what's working and learn to have these conversations when your clothes are on, when you're not right about to have sex. How much sex is the average couple having? There are studies that I'm aware of that are robust showing how often sexually satisfied couples are having sex. I feel like if you just ask the question of how long couples are having sex, you just get in the weeds with How long have they been together? And are they newlyweds? So on average, regardless of gender or, you know, straight queer relationships, couples that have sex once a week or more report higher levels of satisfaction than couples who have sex less than once a week, which means a couple of things. First of all, you don't need to be having an astronomically large amount of sex. in order to be reaping the benefits, both at a relational level as well as at an individual psychological level. It's once a week, right? It's that intimacy date that you're building into your schedule without a contract because just like getting a certain number of steps or a certain number of grams of protein, which everyone seems to be obsessed with right now, or water, whatever it is, that's part of your health plan too. In order to be a thriving, well-adjusted, happy, healthy person in 2026, we need to be taking our sex lives into account because I'm not going to fall for this old trope that great sex just naturally falls from the sky. I recognize it's important. And 30 minutes once a week, we can all have time for that. This might be like a little nuance or a little in the weeds, but I feel like because there is that orgasm gap and men can kind of just like show up, you know, go in and out a little bit and have an orgasm. They don't necessarily have the same motivation to do the work to make sex amazing. And so I do feel like there's this little bit of like, yes, sex, having a great sex life requires work. and we're almost like the woman is more likely to do the work because the woman will benefit more because the man can just kind of show up and do whatever and get his orgasm. How can we make men come to the table in equal parts for the work of having a great sex life? I think this goes back to the conversations that you should be having with your partner when everyone's clothes are on and you're not feeling vulnerable in the act. And it begins with saying sex is something that is important to me. It's important to you. I love you. I feel connected to you. The sex we're having is great, but I know it can be even better. And I know this is awkward to talk about, but can we have a conversation about ways to make it even more pleasurable for both of us? Circling back to this idea of entitlement, I think women don't feel entitled to ask for what they want during sex or to make it a big deal that their pleasure is not being prioritized. I think if you can take ownership of understanding that it is important to you, that it is something you deserve, very much deserve to experience, and that by focusing on it, you absolutely have the tools and the ability to make it better. Your partner is going to see that sense of confidence and empowerment, and they will respond to that. And if you come to them truly knowing and believing in your heart, I deserve pleasure. I deserve to be seen and valued sexually. I deserve to have my needs and wants honored. We don't need to guarantee orgasms, but there does need to be a commitment to mutual pleasure in order for that to happen. So sometimes I think it's about knowing that you deserve it, that it's your right, that you're entitled to it, and then having that conversation with your partner. Because, you know, the other thing is that if our partners don't know and we're not speaking up and they think that the sex is great and that we have no problem, they don't know, right? They're not clued in. It's not really giving them a fair opportunity to help us to get things back in track. What is? We want more romance. I think a lot of people are reading a lot of books where there's a lot of romance. Yeah. And we feel like we're missing that in our actual lives. Is there a way to ask for more of that? It feels like you don't want to be like, okay, I want you to do this, this, this, and this, because that takes the romance out of it. But if you just told somebody, well, I want you to be more romantic, they'd be like, I have no idea what you're telling me to do. Yeah. Yeah. What's really romantic is feeling seen, which kind of ties into this idea of romance, because you're essentially anticipating what somebody else wants, right? It's really about like, I see you, I value what makes you happy, and I want to do my best to try to anticipate and surprise you and make the effort to do things for you that are going to make you feel like you're special and valued and attractive to me. So I think you can ask for that in anything from like a more general way to a specific way, depending on exactly what it is that you want. Maybe it's like a book that you've really been wanting to read, a cupcake from your favorite bakery. I feel like it's a lot of people reading these books, watching these movies, they're like, I want you to come in and like, push me up against the wall and take me like, you absolutely need this in this moment more than you need anything else in the world. Okay. So like, they're like, I don't want a cupcake. Okay. Fuck cupcakes. Yeah. I want that. Yeah. Okay. I want to feel wanted like that. I think I think that's what I'm getting at is it's like almost a hard thing to communicate to your partner is I want you to make me feel wanted versus like what I've heard from many women is like I feel like I'm almost like a vessel for you to get off. Like it just like it's like a rote act. I want you to feel like you desire me. How do we ask for that? I think you tell them what's going to make you feel that way. Like, for example, you just started to do it beautifully. I want you to pin my arms up against my head on the bed and take on a more dominant role. I want you to send me a really dirty text during the day saying that you can't wait to see me and rip my clothes off. Whatever the hot fantasy is, right? You should be specific, but you have to set your partner up for success. You need to literally teach them what are those specific acts that are going to make you feel the most turned on. Because what women might be falling for, those actors, they were handed a script, right? They practiced that scene 20 times. It is like a highly technical act. I mean, if you have ever listened to these interviews of heated rivalry, like they talk about- Because they're only allowed to show so much. Right. And so every inch matters. Every inch matters. Every angle matters. And it's, you know, it's just like, it's ridiculous because that's not actually leading. That's not real desire what you're seeing, but use it for fantasy. And again, if what you want are your hands to be pinned up or you want to be spanked or you want to be, you know, have like a little bit of rough play, be really specific. But again, And that goes back to this entitlement piece because women don't feel empowered enough to be able to say what it is that they're really fantasizing about because we're being taught that you're bad or you're shameful or you're not a good girl. If you speak your truth, you need to speak your truth. But I also think it's really important to point out that you don't need to have that level of wanting and desire for it to then progress into an incredible sexual experience, right? And so I'm sure you've had sex therapists on before that have talked about this idea of responsive versus spontaneous desire, right? Spontaneous desire is the kind of desire where you just want to tear people's clothes off and you just can't stop thinking about them versus responsive desire, which is so much more common in longer term relationships, especially among women, Right. And that's the type of desire where you get into bed at night. You're not totally sure if you want to have sex. Maybe you want to have sex. So you cuddle up with your partner. You kind of get your bodies touching together. You regulate your nervous systems. And then your body literally starts to turn on. Right. And you become aroused physically. and then that pathway leads to this subjective psychological sense of arousal. In other words, this seems totally counterintuitive, but sometimes it takes our bodies physically touching those of our partner and becoming lubricated or erect before that psychological sense of wanting kicks in. Yeah, but I feel like when it feels like they want you and they're pinning you up against the wall when they get home, it's easier for you to be responsive and be like, oh yeah, now I'm turned on. But that can happen even with responsive desire. If once your body starts getting turned on, they then go into a dominant role of pinning your hands up. If you know that you want that, speak your truth. Your partner probably wants to hear that more than you realize. And by the way, you can act this out. They can come home from work. They can do that. There can be laughing through the process and it can still be hot. If we're in the middle of a dry spell, what's the first step that we should take to begin to get out of it? Have a conversation with your partner where you simply sit down and you acknowledge what's going on and you say, look, let's have some grace for each other. We've been under stress or we've been exhausted. Is this dry spell just because life happens, which it does? And is it something where we can just pivot and get it back on track by acknowledging it? because simply sometimes noticing things is the mechanism we need for change? Or is this about a larger issue in our relationship? In which case, please go to therapy. There are so many wonderful therapists that can really help if your dry spell is really something coming from a deeper relational issue. Is there anything we can do about that like awkward initial hump when you just like you haven't been intimate for a while and it just like feels almost like they're a stranger again or a little bit weird? Make out with your partner. Making out is so hot, right? I mean, think about how much we made out in the beginning of our relationships. Introduced more forms of non-sexual physical touch, which have been shown to be highly predictive of sexual intimacy. We shouldn't be only touching our partners when we want sex. 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We're talking like chicken Milanese with a crunchy cucumber arugula salad or everything bagel salmon with truffle chive potatoes. My favorite recent meal was the creamy lemon chicken tray bake. I just had one of those moments where I looked at my plate and I was like, wait, I made this? This is incredible. And it was so easy. Marley's spoon just makes eating well feel really easy instead of stressful. And that is everything. That's what we need to make these healthy habits stick. This new year, fast track your way to eating well with Marley Spoon. Head to MarleySpoon.com slash offer slash Liz Moody for 45% off your first order and free delivery. That's right. You heard me right. 45% off your first order and free delivery. I mean, you got to try that, right? Like that is such a deal. That is MarleySpoon.com slash offer slash Liz Moody. I have an obsession. It's the Wonder Oven from our place. It's sold out eight times. It is that good and it's finally back in stock. So get it before it's gone. The Wonder Oven is an air fryer and toaster oven that has made it so much easier to cook. It heats up in 2.5 minutes, two and a half minutes, which is wild. So you can make cookies when you actually need them, which for me is usually right away. It makes freezer food and roasted veggies and reheated pizza the perfect texture with crispy outsides and fluffy insides. You can roast chicken. You can roast a sweet potato and it is so chic. I got the butter yellow one. I love leaving it out on my counter because it makes my kitchen look so much cuter. It's like a little accessory for your kitchen. I use my Wonder Oven literally every single day. And now I use my big oven like once a year. The Wonder Oven just works so much better, so much faster. Unlike most cookware that's still made with forever chemicals like Teflon, Everything from Our Place, including the Wonder Oven, is made without PFAS and PTFEs, which is so important when you're actually heating things up that you are eating inside of these pans, inside of this oven. I also use their bakeware and their pans for this reason. So if you are in the market for those, stock up while I have a code. Stop cooking with toxic cookware and upgrade to Our Place today. Visit fromourplace.com slash Liz Moody and use code Liz Moody for 10% off site-wide. With a 100-day risk-free trial, free shipping and returns, you can experience this game-changing cookware with zero risk. That is fromourplace.com slash Liz Moody and use code Liz Moody. What should we do if we're on a medication like an SSRI that decreases our libido? Don't just assume that you should suffer. That is a real sexual side effect and it should not just be dismissed because it's sexual and therefore deemed as unimportant. It could just be switching to a different SSRI can make a huge difference. Welbutrin, right, is something that's not an SSRI, but is often used very effectively to treat depression and anxiety. It's sometimes nicknamed the horny drug because people will go off SSRIs onto Welbutrin. I sound like a drug's put person. I swear. But there are other types of medications that you should be experimenting with under the care of your doctor to find the one that doesn't have side effects because you should not just accept that as something that is a permanent side effect that you have no right to change. Is there anything else that's negatively impacting our sex life that we might not be aware is negatively impacting our sex life? I think our overall physical health, just from talking to many friends of mine that are physicians, for example, they have a lot of men who are coming into their office and they're complaining about erectile dysfunction. And what they uncover is that the person is not eating well and they're not working out at all and they're not getting any sleep. All of those other forms of physical activity are going to improve your sex life. Sex improves the quality of your sleep and sleep quality improves the quality of your sexual experiences. So there's a nice virtuous cycle that can happen there. Okay, we're going to get into some of like the nitty gritty stuff. Oh, good. You shared some really weird tips for increasing our odds of a mind-blowing orgasm online. Okay. You shared things like wearing socks. Why would wearing socks increase the odds of us having a great orgasm? That finding is very controversial, and I will explain why. Because nobody is attracted to somebody who's naked and wearing only socks. Yep, exactly. And also, just researchers ask, wait a minute, what was happening, right? And so this is one of those findings where you need to really look at the research. They put people in MRI machines, right? And had them do different things and watch to see if they had an orgasm. And yes, people in the MRI who are wearing socks were more likely to have an orgasm. Guess why, Liz? Because they weren't cold. Okay. So you could take that and dismiss the finding of socks. However, it does show that if you are physically uncomfortable in some way, like if you're cold or starving, you're probably not going to be able to enjoy sex for the same reason that our physical well-being impacts it in other ways. So have a snack. Turn up the temperature. Turn up the temperature. Be comfortable. Be cozy. Be cozy. You also said that moaning or groaning or being loud increases the odds of having an orgasm. Yes, it does. So when we moan and we groan, it does two things. First of all, it communicates to our partner what's feeling good, which is going to give them encouragement, make them more zoned in on our sexual cues that we're giving and do more of what feels good. But also, it goes back to something we social psychologists call self-perception theory, which is sort of a fancy way of saying fake it till you make it. I would never encourage people to fake an orgasm. But if you are making lots of noise and sighing and moaning, guess what? By going through those activities, you're probably going to turn yourself on a little bit more. So it's a combination of the fact that, first of all, at a mechanical level, when you're activating the vocal cords, it's having this parasympathetic response within your nervous system that's kind of calming you. You're like toning your vagus nerve. You're toning your vagus nerve. Exactly. Thank you. So it's doing that. It's communicating. And then there's this little bit of, you know, sometimes it's fun to be a little bit dramatic. Wait, okay. So how common is faking orgasms? 60% of women report that they've faked an orgasm before. Isn't that sad? It is sad. I'm not surprised. To the point of my friend who feels like she takes like a very long time to orgasm and she feels like there's this cultural perception that she should be orgasming much quicker. She's often said to me like, yeah, I'd rather fake it than have my partner feel like he's bad in bed, then drag this out where he's like lost his erection because now he feels like he's doing all this work. Like it does feel like a lot of things need to line up and I can see why it happened. So I have two questions about that. Like you're like, no, you believe we should not be faking orgasm. Okay. Firmly. And then two, what do we do instead then if we have all these reasons that we might fake it? Like we feel awkward, we feel like we're taking too long, like what should we do instead? Well, first of all, I just want to really zone in on what you said about how she feels like her partner is going to start to worry. Because when you look at these surveys that have interviewed women for the reasons for why they fake, that's the number one reason given, right? It's that they felt like they were going to hurt their partner's feelings. Again, about women not feeling entitled about their own pleasure. I know, but men have such fragile egos sometimes that like, it's like you could fake it and have the whole sex session feel connected, happy, great, or you could not fake it and have them be like, well, I'm out of bed and like then it's grumpy and then the whole night's worse. But it shouldn't have to be your job to manage the small ego. I know. I completely agree. And I'm not saying like, I do think it needs to be met with compassion. But what I'm saying is to say to him, I'm not having an orgasm. And you are feeling like this represents a failure on your part or that the sex isn't good. And it's not your fault that you feel that way. Media is feeding us this image that great sex equals orgasms that are happening instantly and are achieved easily without fail. And that's just a very false narrative. So I understand that this feels awkward and hard for you. that's not your fault. In other words, not saying to your partner, you and your little ego, having a more compassionate perspective. It's about the culture. Exactly. And saying, but what I'd really like to do is find a way, first of all, for us to redefine sex so that you understand that I don't have to have an orgasm to be enjoying myself. And it might be that sometimes she has an orgasm and sometimes she doesn't. And maybe she feels totally satisfied with that. And I want to normalize that that's okay. Great sex is about so much more than just orgasm. But if we can talk about sort of the cultural narrative that's setting up that expectation and hence the way he's feeling in that moment, we can discuss the problem without being accusatory. And that leads to a more productive solution. But not in the bedroom, right? But not in the bedroom. Exactly, Liz, outside the bedroom. It could also be about understanding, well, what is it that would help me to have an orgasm? It might be introducing a sex toy. People get so worked up about this idea of, you know, oh my God, well, she can come from her vibrator, but not from me. And what does that mean? Look, a vibrator, it is literally designed to give a literal superhuman level of stimulation to a direct area of female anatomy that is the most pleasurable, right? From a purely anatomical standpoint, nobody is going to compete with that. And that's okay because no woman has ever left her partner for her vibrator, right? They are tools They are collaborators You should be bringing them into the bedroom teaching your partner how you like to use it on yourself so that they can use it on you in that way It might feel a little awkward at first, but you will get used to it. You will normalize that. It will become a regular part of your sexual play. So there are a number of options and not all of these sexual experiences have to be the same. She can, you know, choose to have some nights when making out and having sex, but not having an orgasm feels deeply gratifying and amazing and connected. And then there could be other nights when they have more oral sex, which is shown to be a more effective path towards orgasm for a woman, or she brings in her vibrator. Didn't you say in your book that the happiest couples in the long run are couples who prioritize oral? Yes, they do. Exactly. I'm not saying that every single person, you know, has to be having oral sex. I never want to be that prescriptive. But if we're looking at averages overall, in couples where people say that they're having oral sex, they report higher levels of sexual satisfaction than in couples where they're not having oral sex. And this makes sense, right? We've talked about how the clitoris is the main way that a woman has an orgasm. And if she is having that stimulated in a very efficient way, which is oral sex, that is likely to lead to orgasm. Now, unfortunately, we're taught that vaginas are dirty, that there is bacteria in vaginas. Newsflash, there's not, right? Or that they smell, right? There's so many women who feel embarrassed to have their partner go down on them. And it really shouldn't be that way. Vaginas are clean, right? As long as you're engaging in regular hygiene, right? Meaning showers, you don't need anything special down there. There's nothing dirty or wrong about oral sex for either partner. And I think we definitely need to be having more of it. It also introduces that idea of micro novelty, right? So yeah, oral sex, I think, especially women need to be having a lot of oral sex. Can you give me a specific oral sex tip for giving oral sex to a vulva that I probably haven't heard before? I thought you'd never ask. imagine this is an oral sex technique on a vulva right and so the person is going to be like imagine that you are facing the person right so you're going to be using your tongue right on the external portion of the clitoris right on the part that you can see right and then you're going to insert two fingers into the vagina, two to three inches inside, and you're going to press upward. When you press upward, you're going to feel an area on the wall of the vagina that feels a little different than the texture around it, right? So whereas the texture around that area is going to feel really smooth, this area might feel a little bit more like the texture of a walnut. This walnut space area used to be called the G-spot. We now know from anatomical studies that there's not technically a distinct secret button called the G-spot, but there is what we call the clitor urethral vaginal complex, which is harder to say. It's harder to say. Took some practice eight times when doing my audiobook. But essentially, it's this intersection of the internal structures of the clitoris, as well as the vagina and then the area around the urethra. And when you're using your two fingers to stimulate that area in a come-hither motion, combined with external stimulation of the clitoris with your tongue, you're kind of like attacking, so to speak, the clitoris from all different angles. And that is a fantastic oral sex technique that I highly suggest you all try tonight. Okay, give me one non-obvious that I haven't heard before technique to give the best blowjob ever. I think, you know, the place where so many people are going wrong with oral, with giving blowjobs right now, I feel strongly on this, is this idea that a great blowjob involves a penis halfway down your esophagus, which is what we see in porn, right? This idea of deep throating. The number of questions that I get from students, how do I give a blowjob where it's deep throating, where it's all the way down there? And I have to explain, if you want to have a deep throated blowjob all the way down there, go for it. But what you could also do that is equally as pleasurable is focus on the head of the penis with your mouth and your tongue, right? So you have your tongue maybe going back and flicking back and forth on the head of the penis while having your hand going up and down the shaft of the penis, right, at the same time. And then with your other hand, if you're feeling really competent or adventurous is a better word, you might try exploring either the skin around the scrotum or the area called the taint, which is the flat piece of skin that's in between the scrotum and the anus, which for a lot of men can feel incredibly erotic and really, really good. Is there a secret to making a guy just come really fast? Like if we're having sex and we're like, I just want this to be a quickie and like, I want to push a button type of thing. Is there a way to kind of like tip them over the edge? I mean, you're making my brain go to, what was the movie, American Pie, where he goes in for the prostate exam and just boom. So the butt stuff. Well, no, I mean, prostate, we did not talk about prostate orgasms, though. Those are actually the secret to multiple orgasms for men. So some men do like prostate massage, not all men. And is that, that is by sticking a finger up the butt? Up the butt or a sex toy has to be connected to a finger or, I mean, to a body or to a base so that it doesn't get sucked up into the intestinal tract, because that will happen. You do not want to end up in the emergency room. So if you're doing butt play, use a base or make sure it's attached to a person. But yeah, just like the G spot is two to three inches inside the vagina, the P spot is two to three inches inside the anus, also on the upper wall. And so for some men who really enjoy that, it can lead to an orgasm that's not also being accompanied by ejaculation, you don't have that refractory period, meaning you can have an orgasm and then two minutes later have another orgasm and then another orgasm. I do think it's interesting that men have a literal pleasure spot, like they have a clit in their butt and yet men are always trying to stick stuff in women's butts and we don't have a clit in our butt. And they're like, oh my gosh, I'm not gay. Like don't stick something. And I'm Like you have a clit in your butt. Exactly. You have it there. Exactly. I poll my students every single quarter. You know, it's funny because it's anal sex and sexual choking are the two behaviors where as an educator, you know, I'm in a difficult position because on the one hand, I want to encourage people to engage in every type of sex that they find exciting and that might bring them pleasure. But I get concerned when, you know, first of all, it might be risky the way it is with choking. Or second of all, it's an activity that seems to be coming from portrayals of rough sex and pornography that involve a lot of, you know, back to faking orgasms by porn actresses. Because when I poll students in my own class, and this is also shown by nationally representative data by Dr. Debbie Herbnik. Believe it or not, there are studies on this, too. women don't enjoy anal sex nearly as much as culture would have you believe no but i think it's because men are like yeah they want something in their butt but they are unwilling to admit it to themselves because of internalized homophobia and so they're like well i'll just stick something in her butt i love it that's very freudian that's that's my hypothesis and i do think it's because i'm i don't know i'm like you're the one with the pleasure center in your butt exactly wait i gotta to ask you, what goes on in your class? Like, what are you teaching? Like, are you teaching here's how to have good sex? People who are like, okay, you're going up and leading a lecture of college students. Like, what are you doing? So if I'm going to give you sort of a broad overview of topics, it's everything from anatomy to sexual orientation, gender identity. Then we get into sexual arousal, orgasm, response, sexual behavior. And then we get into casual sex and hookup culture. And then we get into the secret to keeping passion alive and long-term relationships. And then we get into kink and BDSM and pornography and sex work and sexual dysfunction and all the challenges that people face. And yeah, I think all of these things are critical for all of us to be learning about because information is what empowers. And I'm teaching the whole gamut of all these topics because there's so much curiosity. And the more we know, the better able we are to get what we want and to know what we want in the first place. A lot of people are really worried about the sex lives of Gen Z. They're not having sex. Sex rates are going down, I think, across the board. But for Gen Z, they're going down at especially pronounced rates. Yes. You work with people in Gen Z and your researcher. What's your take on this? Gen Z is having less sex than millennials were, and certainly my generation were when they were in college. And it's really hard to pin down the exact reason, right? We think that it has to do with social media use, technology in general, pornography, the loneliness epidemic, the anxiety and depression epidemic, the impact of COVID and the shutdown that that had on sort of normal developmental experiences that people that age should have been having. There is real correlational data showing that women are drinking less. They're having less sex. Now, you have to kind of look at that from the lens of, is that necessarily a bad thing? Right. Is it possible that when women were drinking more, they were just having more sex that they maybe wouldn't have necessarily wanted if they were sober? In other words, maybe this has to do more with growing awareness around sexual assault and the Me Too movement where women feel more empowered to say no. But at the same time, I mean, to me, when I'm looking at my students, you know, knowing the research, people are just putting things off later in life than they used to. If you look at the average age of marriage right now, it's 31. Right. When I was out of college, the average age of getting married was 25. So that's a big shift. We know for sure, you know, people who are single don't have as much sex as people who are partnered. And so it could just be that people are spending a longer time in this single state. But I will say they're not happy with their sex lives. When I pull them and I ask them to describe the state of their sex lives, they tell me, you know, well, in one word, non-existent, you know, and they feel like there's just a lack of connection in general. So Scott Galloway says we should all be going out and getting drunk more and bring back hookup culture, all that. What would be your prescription to solve this? I think that we need to have a more nuanced approach where we think about what is actually going to make me happier. Right. And Scott Galloway is looking at this from a different lens because I believe what he's pointing to is the fertility crisis. Right. And the fact that people are having less babies. And so, yes, when you have less sex, you have less children. But I don't feel like the fertility crisis is enough of a reason to be forcing people to have sex that they don't want to have. And so I think the key is to have an honest conversation with yourself about what are the types of experiences that I want that are going to make me happy. Right. And owning that casual sex. When we look at the research on emotional outcomes, it sometimes can be a sexual adventure that leads to a lot of pleasure and that can be fun and that can be something that is exciting and teaches you about yourself and is a way to blow off steam. It can also be quite miserable, right? It can also feel, leave you feeling lonely and empty and disconnected or even angry or even like feeling like somebody led you on or, you know, took advantage of you. In the context of casual sex, we've done a good job talking about affirmative consent, meaning that we need to have permission to respect each other's bodies for sure. And those boundaries are critical. And that ongoing consent is where consent really begins. That's the foundation. But we're really at a point now where we need to be respecting people's emotional and social boundaries as well. And that means a commitment to mutual pleasure during the experience, emotional honesty about what the experience means to you, not leading somebody on to make them think that it's leading to a relationship when for you, it's actually just one night of fun. Situational transparency. Are you moving across the country the next day? Are you actually in a relationship, but you've just lied to me to get me into bed? Right. We may not think of those things as traditional components of consent, right? But they are part of consent because consent, in order to exist, needs to be informed. And if we don't have the whole picture, we're going to end that experience feeling really duped, feeling let on, feeling disconnected. I don't think it's as simple as saying that people should just drink more or have more casual sex. To me, it's how can we bring more joy and pleasure into people's lives? That's the goal. And I think to do that, it's about understanding our desires matter. Our partner's desires matter. Our emotional needs matter. And we can have a hot, connected experience when that's recognized and talked about throughout. We've been talking about joy and pleasure a lot. And a hypothesis that I have that I want to run by you is that because so many of us spend so much time on our phones these days, we have developed dopamine imbalances that are leading to anhedonia. So are leading to this sort of low level flattening of pleasure in our lives where you used to eat food that gave you a lot of pleasure. Now it gives you a little bit less. You used to read a book that gave you a lot of pleasure. Now it gives you a little bit less. You used to have sex that used to give you a lot of pleasure. Now it feels less because your dopamine is so imbalanced by the amount of time we're spending on our phone. Do you think that's impacting our sex lives? I think it's impacting our sex lives because our brains have no ability to focus and be present because of the exact reasons you describe with social media. And it's that lack of ability to be present and in the moment that is so critical for good sex. So do you think we all need to be meditating to have better sex? I think we need to be more mindful in general, right? And this is where I become really hypocritical because there is so much research showing the benefits of meditation. It is amazing for you. I am not a good meditator. I've tried. I've never been able to do it. I get bored. But I've found other ways that I can be mindful. So for example, for me, going for a run makes me feel really mindful. eating a delicious plate of food where I'm really savoring all of the flavors and tasting them and enjoying them that brings me pleasure that brings me into the moment so I think that when we can experience joy and pleasure but in ways where it's bringing ourselves back into our bodies and re-establishing presence yeah I feel like that's a big takeaway for me from this episode and from talking to you is that it's about the bedroom, but it's really about your whole life. And the bedroom is going to impact your whole life, but also your whole life is going to impact the bedroom. You hit the nail on the head, Liz. Exactly. Can you give us one homework assignment, something that we could all do the second that we turn off this podcast to want to crave sex more, to want to want to have sex more? And let's do one for if you are in a partnership and one if you're not in a partnership. Okay. If you're in a partnership, I want you and your partner to sit down tonight and I want you to both write a story independently. And I want the story to be the wildest sexual fantasy that you and your partner have. But I don't mean wild in a performative sense. I mean, what is that fantasy? Like I'm thinking of your friend that wants her hands pinned against the wall by her partner. Or like if for you, it's I came home and the house was sparkling. Yes, exactly. By the way, I can't get off your podcast without mentioning that men who vacuum more have more sex. There's actually data supporting that. So I want you to write that story, right? And you need to both write that story. I want it to be that you came home, the house was sparkling clean. You came up to your room and it was decorated with candles and unicorn dildos. Sparkling. Love it. Love it. And then do you read them out loud to each other? Yes. And then you trade and you exactly and you read them out loud to each other. And I think that this can be fun. It can be funny, but it can be sort of a playful way to communicate with your partner what it is that you're craving. What is that fantasy? But also, what are sort of the actionable steps that you can take toward helping to make that fantasy come to life? If you're unpartnered, I want you to think about your last unattached casual sex experience. Maybe their name was Brad. I want you to concretely picture Brad to the point where you now trace Brad's name in the air. Now that you're channeling Brad, let's turn to what that experience was actually like for you. Was it exciting? Was it adventurous? was it something where you were able to express in the moment what you wanted and where Brad was also able to express in the moment what he wanted? Did you feel cared for in the moment, even though you knew that it may not lead to anything more meaningful? Or did it leave you feeling unsatisfied, uncared for, empty, maybe a little annoyed or angry or disappointed in Brad? Right. And I want you to think about what was it about that experience that led me to feel that way? Is it that I just don't like casual sex and it's not right for me? And I want to feel like I have a real emotional connection and reassurance that the relationship is meaningful before I jump in a bed with someone. That's fantastic. Know that about yourself. Own that about yourself. don't watch the sex lives of college girls and feel that you're not sex positive because you're not having casual sex experiences that's perfectly healthy and fine but maybe you had an awesome experience with brad right maybe it was incredible maybe you had an orgasm maybe you didn't but it was just exciting making out maybe it was the game maybe it was the back and forth maybe it was the not knowing, right? Own that too. It's okay if you enjoyed that and want more of that. Casual sex can be very satisfying for women when we feel empowered to ask for what we want and to demand a level of clarity about the meaning of the experience and emotional honesty throughout it, right? So it's just about understanding how did that experience make me feel? Not the girl I saw who had the wild sex hookup in the show I watched last night, not the story that I'm being fed from the media about how casual sex is awful for everyone, but really for me, right? And how can I decide that I either want to be having more casual sex or that it's okay for me to be having it until I find a more long-term partner, or if I just want to be, you know, dating somebody first before I share my body, because both are equally wonderful options. It's just about being, again, this idea of presence and mindfulness about what you want and experience, not relying on all of these cues that are coming from every aspect in the media around us. Amazing. Nicole, can you tell us in your own words about your amazing book, You Could Be Having Better Sex. It's such a good title. Thank you so much. So I am so excited to introduce this book to the world. It really provides the blueprint for all of us to be having better sex. And it really is written for everyone. It doesn't matter if you are in a long-term relationship, if you are newly single, if you are casually dating, if you are in an open relationship, if you are polyamorous, if you are kinky, if you have been married and are in deeply in love with your partner for 30 years, if you are considering leaving your partner, all of these scenarios, all of these people this book is written for. I have chapters and ideas for all of you that can help you to be having better sex and a happier life. Amazing. Thank you so much, Nicole. Thank you, Liz. This was so much fun. I really appreciate it. That is all for this episode of the Liz Moody podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, I would so appreciate if you would share it with somebody that you think would love it too. It is my goal to get as much life-changing information out to as many people as possible. And you sharing episodes with people is 100% the thing that makes that happen. I would also love to hear from you in the comments, any thoughts or questions or opinions that you have on this episode. Make sure that you're subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, on YouTube, wherever you like to listen. You can find every single discount code that you heard in this episode and tons more at lizmoody.com slash codes. It is the best way to save money on amazing vetted products. Truly, our brand partners make the best products in the world. That is why they're our beloved brand partners. And it's the best way to support the show and keep it completely free for you. And we so appreciate it. Okay, I love you. And I will see you on the next episode of the Liz Moody podcast. Oh, just one more thing. It's the legal language. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, a psychotherapist, or any other qualified professional. I'm going to be really honest. When I first heard about this product, I thought it was a scam. I sent it to a research assistant who has her PhD in health science, and she's now a professor in the same subject. and I was like, can you dive into the science on this? Because there is no way that it's real. And she went off, she looked at it, and she came back and she was like, actually, it's super real and the science is really compelling. So I am excited to introduce you to fatty 15. Fatty 15 contains C15, which is the first essential fatty acid discovered in more than 90 years. And it plays a major role in keeping our cells strong and healthy. Without enough of it, our cells can weaken and age faster, which is a condition now known as cellular fragility syndrome. Fatty 15 helps fix that by repairing and strengthening cells from the inside out. It's probably something that we got historically more of when we were eating a lot of full-fat dairy and grass-fed meat, and the lack of it might be one of the reasons why people are feeling less vibrant and high energy than they would like. Because of the way it works on a cellular level, it's been shown in studies to help boost cognitive function, to support metabolic pathways, to boost red blood cell health, and enhance liver response. It also inhibits 18 different pro-inflammatory cytokines, which means it's going to help with anything inflammation-based, which is a lot of stuff. The biggest success stories that I have heard are people seeing their blood glucose levels really stabilized, so less of those spikes and dips, way less brain fog and better memory. That's one that I hear a lot. And then less achy joints and overall feeling just like less generally inflamed. Fatty 15 is on a mission to optimize your C15 levels to help support your long-term health and wellness, especially as you age. You can get an additional 15% off their 90-day subscription starter kit by going to fatty15.com slash Liz Moody and using code Liz Moody at checkout. Again, that is fatty15.com slash Liz Moody and use code Liz Moody at checkout. Did you know that the average half-life of caffeine is five hours, which means that if If you drink a coffee or matcha after lunch, you still have a ton of caffeine in your system when you try to go to bed at night, which delays your melatonin release and makes it harder to fall asleep and to get deep sleep. But I also get that like slump feeling in the afternoon, which is why it's the perfect time to reach for AG1. When I drink it, I feel instantly more awake with no jitters and no impact on my sleep later. It takes literally 20 seconds. You just do one scoop. You do eight ounces of water. You mix it up. You're done. And they have a bunch of delicious flavors. AG1 is a foundational nutrition drink designed to support your whole body health. I think of it as the world's most bioavailable multivitamin, but then they went ahead and added all these extra things like antioxidants, which my RD specifically told me to focus on after some of my blood work, functional mushrooms, which support immune health, which feels really important right now because I feel like literally everybody is sick. And then the new NextGen formula is even better. They've added more vitamins and minerals than ever, all clinically proven to help fill common nutrient gaps, which is huge because the vast majority of us are not getting all of our nutrients every day, even if we are eating super healthy, simply because the soil our foods are grown in is depleted. And also most of our microbiomes, if we are being honest, are not actually working to the level where they're assimilating all of the nutrients optimally. AG1 has over 50,000 verified five-star reviews and comes with a 90-day money-back guarantee. so trying it is no risk to you. And for a limited time only, go to drinkag1.com slash Liz Moody. You're going to get a free AG1 flavor sampler and a GZ sampler to try all of the flavors, plus free vitamin D3 and K2 and an AG1 welcome kit. That is so much stuff. With your first AG1 subscription order, this is a limited time offer, only available while supplies last. That is drinkag1.com slash Liz Moody. drinkag1.com slash Liz Moody.