Alexi Wasser

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Do you know the pronunciation? I know who you mean. Nilly-lotan or nilly-lotan? I'll take the chance. Nilly-lotan belt, gold hardware, and then I'm wearing, I'm wearing a pair of high-waisted, reformation jeans, straight leg jeans, no stretch in the denim, and I just say, this is all I wear. And then underneath, I'm wearing some crew neck, ribbed shirt. And then I'm wearing a pair of flat ballet flats. Usually, I wear Gucci loafers, but I'm wearing these new ballet flats that I got from this company called Margo, because they make shoes that fit my very long foot. I have a long foot. I like to talk about it because I have a tall girl, 5' 11 1 1⁄2", and I used to be so filled with shame about the size of my feet. So now it's, I won't shut the fuck up about it. Now, I'm talking about my long foot because if I didn't have this long foot, I tip over, and yeah, they make shoes in my size anyway. But yeah, uniform, I wear the same thing all the time. I'm glad you wear a jean with no stretch because I hate stretch. Me too. It looks so cheap, doesn't it? It feels horrific if you really don't like it. You're a writer and a filmmaker, and you've just released your first feature film called Messy, in which you also star. And I wondered why you decided to star in it, to act in it as well. Oh my goodness. Why did I decide to star in it? I decided to star in it? Yes, I did all those things. Thank you for doing all this research. I can't believe it. I don't know if I'm going to be your most anxious guest on this couch. I probably need the therapy the most, but why did I decide to star in it? Because it's a very personal story. I made it for $100,000. I had had all these other projects that never went that were more expensive, and then I thought, fuck this, are we going to let a curse on this show? And I thought, I'm going to write my own indie movie, and that's what I, and I'm going to, it's like a puzzle to be solved. How can I make a feature film for $100,000? So I wrote this very kind of personal story about, you know, I refer to it as a neurotic sex romp comedy. Based on my life, but heightened. So I decided to star in it because, you know, the character has her tits out a lot, and I thought, I don't want to do this to another actress, so I'm going to, I'm going to do this. So it's me going on all these mortifying dates with my boobs out, having simulated sex and finding myself in, uh, yeah, embarrassing situations that may or may not have been based on real life. So, I mean, I love the film so much. And I, I was at a fashion dinner and I heard people talking between themselves about you. And then I asked, I heard some sort of trigger words of interest. And I asked about it and they said, yeah, there's this girl. She's really cool. She's made this film. And I got your Instagram handle at the dinner, looked up the trailer and thought, oh, this is just brilliant. And it, it's really beautifully made and shot and you, you did everything. You, Oh my God, Bella, you wrote it, you directed it and you're in it. And also the rhythm of how you speak is so engaging and fun. And, and I wondered when did you start, when did that start your wild curiosity and your innocence about how you express yourself? Oh my God, I have a wild curiosity and innocence in the way I express myself. Yes. I love it. Um, oh my God. Wait, by the way, what were the trigger words? What were the trigger words that the people said that made you like the thing? And then I'll answer your questions. I'll stop asking you questions. Probably sexual romcom or Good. Okay, good. Um, I mean, I don't know if I'm even gonna answer this right, but I just feel like, uh, I, Uh, I'm not a chill person, as the kids say. I'm not a relaxed person. I'm, you know, I'm self conscious. I'm neurotic. I overthink everything. I experienced a lot of internal suffering, especially when I'm dating or when I'm in love or when I'm trying to be in love. And I think like the whole, I think the whole thesis of the movie is about a girl who, uh, is the most uncomfortable and miserable when she's in love. And yet she can't stop looking for love, you know, so, and that's how I kind of live my life. So my coping mechanism is humor. And so I think like I wrote this movie, I don't even know if I'm answering the question correctly. I've always just written written makes writing makes me feel better. Writing helps me like work through all my turmoil and I love framing any experience I go through. I like framing it where I'm the butt of the joke because it makes me laugh because I feel like when I'm in a mortifying, humiliating, disappointing situation, which I, you know, have to experience many a time dating and having sex. And falling in love or throwing myself out into the world. The only way I can keep myself from like wanting to curl up and die or something is by like zooming outside of the situation and being like, oh my God, I can't believe this happened. This is hilarious. How can I retell it to other people so that we all laugh about it? And then I'm laughing about it. And I don't feel like as gutted as I did immediately. So that's always just how I've been like, I've, yeah, I've always been, that's just my coping mechanism. It's my favorite thing to do. And then my goal with what I write is to make people feel less alone, to make people laugh. And then for me to just be able to laugh about the whole thing and then also find my people because I really like it if I write a thing or even having made this movie. If another person comes up to me and says, oh my God, I want to do the same thing. It's crazy. I go, oh my God, I'm not alone. So I've made this person feel less alone. I feel less alone. I found my people who can relate and then I realized we're all just suffering. I don't know, you know, because you started a blog called Boy Crazy in which you describe yourself as oversharing about all the things that you've just mentioned, relationships and uncomfortable dates and sexual experiences. And what does oversharing mean to you? Oh my God, what does oversharing mean to me? I feel like, especially with the men I date or maybe the way people are brought up or how we're supposed to live our life, you're supposed to give the impression that everything's okay and that you're, you know, you're composed and everything's fine and that is not how I live my life. So my way of like, so yeah, oversharing is just like, God, I got to stop it. Maybe I got to stop on this podcast today or else I'm going to reveal too much. I mean, it's interesting because I think I'm the opposite. I'm like a withholding person. I go into a terrible panic and and I've always thought of myself that I could hold a burning coal without crying out or saying anything. It's like the idea of oversharing is so alarming. But it's, it's this, it's in the end, it's the same. I am as anxious as maybe what you think you are oversharing. I'm as anxious, saying nothing, because it's all going on inside me and I'm worrying whether I've said too much or too little, I'm much better. But, you know, that's been a sort of torment, the kind that you describe of feeling unbelievably. You sound like the man I date, right? But, but this is good because maybe you like the movie because again, I can be the, the person, you know, the main character in this movie, in this first feature film I made where you can go, yeah, I don't say it all, I bottle it up. But that is exactly what I'm thinking. I'm worried about my stomach growling. I'm feeling devastated that the, you know, the, the guy isn't behaving or the, my love interest is not behaving the way I want him to or, or I'm being rejected, whatever. Like, yeah, my way of dealing with all that stuff, all the disappointment and the suffering and the, the like, oh, why, why aren't they behaving the way I want them to? Why aren't I not feeling fulfilled? Why am I, I go external with it? And it all comes out of my mouth, which I really am trying to get a handle on. Because the funny thing is, or maybe it's not funny at all, but I, I attract withholding men and it's no accident because they like, it's like two, what is it, yin and yang? I don't know. And it's, yeah, I don't even know what the point of that is, but yeah, I attract, so I feel like I've got to meet, we're all trying to meet in the middle, withholding people want to get out of their shell a bit. I'm trying to learn how to, like, you know, not devour them or like, would you say, you know what I mean? Like, we're supposed, it's supposed to be a beautiful dance. You come together. That's my old therapist that I should probably go back to seeing my therapist. But you know, this will be the step towards that. But yeah. But one, someone once told me that when I, when I was learning about attachment theory or something. Yeah, attachment theories and the different styles. And she said, a way of avoiding intimacy is to, you know, to be attract drawn to somebody who is an avoidance. And then you can be avoidant too, because you're avoiding intimacy by going for something that isn't available, which made me feel a tiny bit better at the time, because the notion of being more avoidant and is cooler, right? Now it seemed to have morphed into being more avoidant, which I don't know. I want to be more avoidant. Yeah, I don't think I am either. I'm just less, I'm less anxious. You're way cooler than me. Are we like this that you give me great dating advice, but that's when the camera's not rolling, but whatever. Are we done? Are we done? Because one of the things I resonated with with Messi is her, also her intermittent calls to daddy who never picks up. And your father was a photographer, Julian Wasse, who took some of the most amazing photographs of modern history, actually, of contemporary figures, including the picture of naked Eve Babitz playing chess with Duchamp and Joan T. Didi and leaning against the white Corvette. And I wondered, were you a daddy's girl? And what does that mean to you? Oh my God, was I a daddy's girl? I think so. The funny thing is, I think I'm, my dad passed away a couple of years ago, and I'm, and now I'm in charge of his photo estate. And the weirdest thing is, I'm dressing more and more like my dad, because my dad used to wear high waisted black Levi's and a belt and like an Hermes belt and like Gucci loafers and button down shirts. And most of the time I'm wearing like your button down shirt and the anyway, so it's funny that after he passed away, I'm like dressing exactly like my dad. So that's so weird. But was I a daddy's girl? I think I, what, yeah, like up into a certain point, I had a comp, believe it or not, I had a complicated relationship with my dad. And yeah, I think I had an enmeshed relationship with my dad. I don't know what your relationship with your dad was like, none of my business. This is a, but yeah, I was, he was like my best friend. I had like puberty and I had my own personality or I developed my own sense of self or wanted like freedom and independence. I think it was like, that's, yeah, I had a bizarre relationship with my dad. It was interesting, but I'm so similar to him. And I loved him. And I loved him. In what way? In what way I am, I'm very opinionated. I am not relaxed. I'm not chill. I'm, yeah, I'm just really specific and And was he like that with you? Was he exacting of his expectation of you? I think so. God, this feels out of control this part because I don't know where we're going to go with this. Sorry, that's what happens. I have my inner monologue is my outer monologue. Oh my God, it's got to stop. Okay. Yeah, he was really exacting with me. I think like, you know, And yet he did right by me because now I get to be in charge of his photo estate and I'm learning more about him now that he's passed away and going through all of his stuff. And that's a cool thing. And the parent passes away and having to go through all of his storage stuff in his old journals and this that and the other. And now I'm like getting to know my dad, you know, after he's passed away. And I love him so much, even though he was a kooky character that was often difficult to be around, especially being his daughter because everything's so much heavier and more intense and wanting approval or why isn't he acting the way I want him to act and blah, blah, blah. And now I'm like, whatever age I am. And I'm thinking, Oh my God, he's gone. Who cares? Nobody gets a manual for how to be a parent. And if I met him at a bar, I'd probably think he was such a charming, funny, cool, interesting guy who was like, you know, who's completely politically incorrect and making wild jokes and stuff. So which is how I am. I don't know. I'm a loud loud mouth and opinionated and anyway, and I respect his work a lot. So I am a daddy's girl as complicated as the relationship was. And your mom was in a band called Precious Metal. My mom was in a band called Precious Metal and abandoned the 70s called Promises. Yeah. Because there was a big age difference between them. And I wondered how they dressed. Oh, how did they dress? Oh, that's so funny because they would get an arguments about that. Oh my God, expose my mom watching this. She's like, what are you doing? Tell no one. No, there, yeah, they're almost like 25 years apart in age. And they met on the sunset strip. I think they met on like, I don't know where they met like the Roxy or the whiskey or the true, but wherever they met. True, but it was on Santa Monica Boulevard. But anyway, yeah, they met. And I think my dad was outside drinking a gin and tonic smoking a cigarette. And my mom walked up and I think he was like, look at this hot babe. I don't know something about her big boobs or something. I don't know, whatever he and he made out with my mom. And that's and then it was on and they were together for six years. And how did she dress? I think she I think my dad wanted her to dress differently. He was probably turned on by the sexy, youthful free way in which she dressed. But then I think he would give her grief for what she wore and wanted her to be more I don't know. I got to call my mom. So I'm due for a phone call. I think he wanted her to dress more appropriately as he was trying to suck the life out of her and controller and their weird fucked up relationship. But yeah. Yeah, but he would have suits made all the time and gabardine suits and he'd go get the maid and you know, monogram shirts and just all very like classic, whatever. And my mom was like, I think I ripped fishnets and she made her own pants and Wow. And I don't know. So funny. My mom, she'll like, I'll give her clothes and then even to this day and she'll like cut them or do something to them. And I'm like, how did you manage to turn this thing that I thought was chic that would serve you well and like, you know, and then they turn into this crazy thing that I never imagined it could be. And then I'm like, it makes her happy. But yeah, they dress differently. They dress differently. Because it sounds like your parents were the kind of people that other people think are cool but are really hard to live with. And I wondered if you had any embarrassment about them. If I had any embarrassment about my parents. Of course. Oh my God. Yes. Oh my God. Well, yeah, because both of them were like, oh my God, where does the embarrassment start and end? Nowhere. Everywhere. Oh God. Was there one in particular who you were most like self conscious about? I mean, God, the way my mom dressed, I didn't like it if she didn't wear this makes me sound like an asshole. If my mom didn't wear lipstick, like a bold lip color. I was so furious. I'd be like, I just wouldn't even want to talk to her. I don't know. That's a me problem. That's not really on my mind. No, it's interesting though, because it's about, I think it's about being too visible for your comfort. Because of how unstable things are. Because in the end, well, I don't know. That's my take on it. That's such a good point. Well, like I had my personal thing with my mom where I was like, she was wild and kooky and rock and roll. But yeah, I was like, oh my God, yeah, don't draw attention. I just want to be normal. I want to be accepted. Oh my God. Like I lived in an apartment growing up and my friends lived in houses and I felt not enough. And you know, I always just felt like, and so, you know, I wanted her to look, I don't know. I think my mom was kind of wild looking and then I get self conscious of them with my dad. I don't know if I got, I mean, he just got angry really easy. I was reactive. And yeah, lots of shame. There's too much shame to even pinpoint where all the shame came from. Yeah, but God. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce and more. And the best part, Odu replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. 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No one ever had that conversation. So it was just mortifying. Everything was true. Oh yeah. I think maybe I blocked it all out, but I feel like I know my mom's always been really supportive and I, you know, but there was a lot of times where I was just like kind of left to my own, like left alone or left with other people. But the periods and being validated in my body stuff, all I can remember off top of my head is I was always so self-conscious and I've always wanted to be, I wanted to be really skinned. I think in the 90s, you know, I wanted to be like a wave and I was really self-conscious about maybe my weight because that was like the heroin cheek look was so in or whatever. But yeah, I think I was always so self-conscious. I dressed in like thrift store corduroy and baggy je- or like I dressed like the boys I had a crush on. Yeah. That was my way of being sexy. I didn't even think like maybe I wore a tube top here and there. Cut that out. Just kidding. Anyway, maybe I wore a tube top here and then, but like, but my main goal, like that was such a weird thing that I was thinking about because when I listened to your show and you asked these questions about like, oh, what is sexy and what did your body, the set and the other. Yeah, it made me think. Yeah, in high school, I was so boy crazy. You know, I was like super hormonal. I've always just like loved the idea of romance and having crushes and just so like amped up and maybe today is the day I'm going to meet the love of my life and like my boyfriend or whatever. It's just so embarrassing, but, but I would dress never in a provocative way. I would wear like 50 cotton, 50 poly t-shirts and like, you know, vintage surf store t-shirts and corduroy and jeans and vintage Levi's and white sneakers because I think I just wanted to like, because that's the kind of boy I wanted to attract. I wanted to attract some guy who looks like Liam Gallagher who like looks like, you know, who wears like dark denim and and a green and a parka or something. So I would dress that way, which is so weird. But I thought that was feminine. And then do you mind that I'm going off in a diet tribe? No, I love it. It's interesting. Well, then when I was in my 20s, I remember some guy who was going to take me on a date and he was like, he was such a bonehead. I don't know. I mean, this is clearly when I was at my lowest self-esteem wise, but I've been lower. But anyway, but he was like, he was like, I'm going to pick you up. I'm going to pick you up at eight. I was like, all right, okay, I've been chosen. I can't believe it. Somebody's going to pick me up for a date. This is what amazing. And he goes, where's something sexy? And I remember when he said that I was like, I was like, where's something sexy? What does that mean? I completely lost my shit. And I got so I overthought it so much because I thought, what is sexy? Here's this normal man because he wasn't some like kind of way fish androgynous drug addict, which is my normal, which was my normal type. Usually, like some kind of rocker or something. He was like a normal guy with a with a job or something. And I went, fuck, he wants me to be sexy. Oh God. And I think I ended up going to urban outfitters. So embarrassing. I went to, I went to urban outfitters and I got some kind of bandage skirt. And then I wore heels, which I never wear to this day. I rarely wear heels because I always want to be able to run away from a predator. And I do not like wearing heels because I'm already like nearly six feet tall. Yeah. And I wore like these bizarre heels that was I was so uncomfortable in this weird bandage skirt that like, oh my God. And I was just like a robot just like I'm here. And they picked me up. And anyway, it didn't go anywhere. It went nowhere. He looked at his phone the whole time. He's a very successful producer on this day. Good for him. You looked amazing. There's something incredibly endearing when someone's out of their comfort zone and they're really young. And but it is, I mean, I don't think anyone's ever said that to me dressed sexy. Some people think wearing track pants and a kind of shredded t-shirt is sexy and someone else thinks, you know, shredded fishnets and a kind of God knows what. But so I would find that. So rude. So I like to wear. I didn't know just disconcerting. It's like that isn't a directive. Tell me what to wear and I'll wear that. What is that? I don't even want that because I got asked out on a date by some guy and he went and he said, it's like some Italian place in Queens or something. And I was like, oh, exciting. We're going to go to a mafioso place in Queens. And then he texted. He goes, oh, by the way, there's a dress code. And by this time, I think I had too much self esteem this week. And I was like, I was like, dress code. He's telling me to dress. He can go fuck himself. I was already like burned by the last guy who told me to dress sexy from when I was in my twenties. Then I'm in my thirties or whatever. I was like, how dare he even I know what I'm doing. And then I was hard headed the other way. And then I realized is I like being able to share clothes with a boyfriend. I like when we both can just share the same pants. I don't know where I'm going with this. So my idea of sexy, like these little details are sexy to me, wearing like a thin t-shirt where you can kind of see through it. And then you can and then I'm wearing like a black lace bra. Or if I'm wearing like a singlet or a white t-shirt or a wife beater or whatever we're supposed to call these tank tops that are, you know, that we used to call wife beaters. Underneath a thin white tank top, I wear a black lace bra. And then I'm like, oh my God, then I feel naughty. Then it's like, you can see my bra. I don't know. To me, that's sexy. I like those looks that seem to have come out of fame, the musical. Oh my God, I love that movie so much. So good and all that kind of Jane Fonda work out and all those larynx of those from that era, I think that looks really cool. Oh my God, I love the Coco part when Coco's like, goes over to the guy's house and she's like taking your shirt off or like, do you know what I'm talking about? No, I don't forget it. And that's all I'm looking for is to be understood. Oh God. Because in Messi, you appear semi naked a lot of the time and how is it to direct a movie with Bear Breasted at the same time? And I mean, it was really impressive. But you, you know, you did everything and I wondered what that felt like. Oh my God. I mean, did you rush to the monitor with like just your panties on? I did. And the funny thing is I thought like, we had a very small cast, like a skeleton crew, a lot of men, a lot of women behind the camera as well. But I was like, they're going to love this. My tits are out. This is incredible. I mean, I'm surely everybody will have a heart on. Nobody had a heart on. No, but as there's like photos that people took on set, actors were like, oh, got rolling their eyes. My DP is like looking, I'm here with my tits out. My DP is like looking the other way, drinking a tazzo tea or something. And I'm just like, anybody. And then I did ask, oh, and then at some point I thought, okay, maybe I don't want to get like, you know, canceled. I'll be the first in line when women get canceled or something. I don't want that for me. But so I started putting my tank top on to be respectful in between shots. But then because it was such a low budget movie and we had so many people wearing so many hats and no real script supervisor, except for my producer, Rebecca, that I would jump back into the shot wearing the tank top. So the continuity was off. So I just had to leave the top off and be directing with my tits out. Anyway, and then at the end of the whole thing, I was like, did anybody get a heart on? During the shooting of this movie, and then one actor who will remain nameless was like, I got a heart on. And I was like, thank you. I want to say his name, but bleep that. One heart on during the making of messy. So anyway, you describe also working in the APC store in Soho in New York and having to write summaries of customers and what kind of things did you write? Oh my God. Oh yeah, well, not a proud moment of my life. It was great. Oh, okay. So I just moved. I love that you ask a question. And then I'm like, let me take us all the way away from the question. And maybe I'll get back to it. So I worked. Yeah, I moved to New York after living in New York, living Los Angeles my entire life as a shop. And so I, I'm like, I'm not going to write anymore. I'm not going to act anymore. I'm living in New York now. Post pandemic. I need structure. I need a job. I need money. You hemorrhage money living in New York. And so yeah, I got a job as a shop girl at APC at the Mercer flagship location, because it's something I wanted to do when I was in my twenties. And I feel like I moved to New York and I just had a complete like midlife crisis where I, you know, dated people much too young for me made horrible decisions, but then also got this fun job as a shop girl. Everybody there was 18 and I'm like 40 years old. And at the end of the day, you had to write, you had to type out your like your most meaningful exchange, your most meaningful sale with a customer. So like all these other old kids who worked there would be like, I sold a sold a pair of dark denim or sold a pair of white sneakers. And then I had stopped writing in my personal life. I thought, fuck it. I'm not writing anymore. And then I tippy toeed because of this thing you had to do at Mercer at the Mercer APC. Suddenly my, my blurbs, we get longer and longer and longer. And they'd go from like, I sold a dress to a nice woman who walked into the shop. And then they would turn into a woman walks in, weaves her way off the cobblestone streets of Soho and finds herself in the store. You know, she's in a horrible mess. They're married. They've been together for 20 years. Surely they're not sleeping anymore. And just for a moment, I remind this woman of who she once was. She puts the dress on and, and we may never talk again, but I'll never forget her or something like. So great. And then the head of APC comes out of the store, the head of H, you know, the whatever headquarters, he comes in this French guy. And he's like, are you the funny lady who's writing these, these, these very chunky long, uh, write ups. And I went, yes, it's me. It's me. I'm the funny lady. He was like, God, well, we are just loving in a French accent that I can't do. And I don't want to offend anybody. But he was like, but he was like, are we loving, we're loving the stories. And I went, you're loving the stories. Thank you so much. And he goes, yeah, but they're a little long. They're a little long. And this is a clothing store. So we need to, we need to tighten them up. And then I was like, you know what, fuck this. I'm, I'm in love with writing again. I'm going to, I'm going to go back to writing. And then after that, I, you know, I wrote, I wrote my movie because I was. Really? Yeah, that's so great. Because I remember decades ago, this was, I was doing something. I was doing something for another magazine. And I was asking different people to submit things. And I can't remember what it was about. And, and I asked Sophia Coppola for something. And she said, her brother had told her to read Richard Broughtigan, because it was very, very short. And it was a great way to, you know, have lessened the expectation of, you know, finalizing something, having something. So short form is really great. And it's a, it's such a good reminder that if you all you need to do is something short, and then it can, and then you're writing the, the worst thing is to write nothing. Oh, God, as we all know. And then messy is a great is a great word and it's evocative and all the meaning that comes with it. And you said you tell people about your encounters. And I find it really scary to tell people and I wondered how does it make you feel safe to, to kind of give the information and then hold yourself within that. Oh my God, it's so funny. It's weird that this works for me, but it's almost like living with it inside of me and with the shame of it, or the like, let's say like, you know, I don't know what whatever experiences inside sharing it with people, then it has no power. And it's like that scene and whatever in the lab rent for like Jennifer Connelly is like, you have no power over me. And then, yeah, I get it out there and then I survived and then it's okay. And it's not so heavy. And it's like, another person will say, Oh, the same thing happened to me or just getting out of my system. And it's not just like eating away at me. It just makes me feel better. So like, yeah, so writing and the making of this movie and putting every horrible thought I've ever had about myself or putting those thoughts and other characters in the movie, like that I interact with in messy, like, it just relieves me of the shame. It's like, that's why I talk about my big feeds too. So I mean, God, I have a long foot. I say long foot because it's like it's such a weird way to refer to having a big foot. I have a long foot because I'm trying to like, Oh, maybe it sounds chic and posh because I mean, whatever. But, uh, because I remember I went on a date with a guy one time. And I was just the whole time thinking, I hope he never, I hope he never notices my big foot. I were an 11 and a half and women American. And I just, I'll just die if he notices. And then one day he's dropping me off at the, at the end of a date. Again, giving a man way too much power, giving another person way too much power over how I feel about myself. And he said, just as I'm about to get out of the car, clump clump. No, he's like, he's like, Oh my God, what size shoe do you wear? And I remember I just looked at him and I burst into tears. I burst into tears because I was like, it's happened. It's happened. My biggest fear has realized. So now even in the movie in messy, like, there's a scene where I'm in the bathtub with this guy. I compare my foot to his big foot and then now it's in a movie and it's people, you can, if you can go on your Apple TV and watch this movie and see how big my foot is. And you know what? I don't care. Who cares? You know, it's out there. I didn't, it didn't kill me. So like, that's, that's how I feel about like, yeah, just it has no power. Yeah, it's the shame diffuser isn't it? Yes. And what is that the more personal, the more universal? So the more whatever, I don't know, you get the gist. I don't know. Have you ever listened to that song by Fats Waller called Your Feet's Too Big? No. Oh, my God. I'll do it. Sorry. What just happened? It's a love song and it's like. Sing it. Your feet's too big. I really hate you because your feet's too big. I'm mad at you because your feet's too big. I really hate you because your feet's too big. Am I like moving around? It's all about this perfect girl, but then she's absolutely thrown out of the Garden of Eden because of her feet. Oh, my God. But I totally agree with you. I had so much shame. Oh, yeah. Do you really? Less now. Oddly, the older I get, the less shame I have, but I had this, as soon as I hit puberty, I was, I'd gone from kind of thinking, oh, I'm okay, you know, in my darkest, deepest thoughts and then thought, I am appalling. And then I would look in the mirror and just be a series of body parts. I could never see myself whole. And then as a nine-molder, I think, oh, great, you know, legs, arms, you know, it's all good. You gave me such, like, by the way, do you get your legs out? Do you, like, you told me I was going to go on a date or I was going to a party. Yeah. And then you were like, you were like, get your legs out. And I went, oh, my God, Bella Freud told me to get my legs out. I must get my legs out because, you know, I make you way too important. I put you on a pedestal. I go, if she says to get my legs out, I'm getting my legs out. And then I did and it changed everything. It changed everything. Suddenly, I felt I was feeling sexy and I was like, oh my God, we're all just going to die. I got to get my legs out. But then I saw you went to a party. You didn't have your legs out. No, I bit past legs out, but maybe just in private. Oh, my God. I love legs. I think they're like the most beautiful thing on a woman and anyone who you've got such long legs, great legs. Oh, my God. It's tight season. When I met you, you were wearing a mini skirt. So I was like, yeah, get the legs out. Was I really? Yeah. Oh, my God. We had lunch in St. Ambrose. I had my legs out. I felt like I was wearing like some kind of long skirt, but who cares? Yeah. Okay, good. Yeah, John Waters made, named Messi as one of his top 10 films of this year. And I wondered which was the first film that you saw that made you feel that you could make films? Oh, my God, I'm still waiting. Still waiting to see a film that makes me feel like I can make film. No. Well, by the way, that was like the highlight of my life. John Waters liking my movie. I couldn't believe it. God, I don't know. I like movies. I like Annie Hall. I like Hannah and her sisters. I like Manhattan. I like modern romance. I love Albert Brooks. I love good fellas, all these different movies. But there are a few movies specific to what inspired Messi. Also, because again, it was like a puzzle. It's like, how can you make a movie for $100,000? You know, it ended up being a little bit more, but it's still under $200,000. So it's not like we're dealing with a movie that has explosions or like crazy special effects, which I wouldn't be interested in anyway, because I'm completely neurotic and into like examining feelings and love and relationships and overthinking and all the tiny little details. And whatever and shining a light on like, you know, things you observe. But what are the movies? Probably like, you know, the movies I just said, but also like Swingers. A new movie called An Unmarried Woman by Paul Mzurski is a huge influence for me. Looking for Mr. Goodbar. I really feel like Messi is a combination of, yeah, an unmarried woman and looking for Mr. Goodbar. And then I also like, you know, my dinner with Andre is a super talky movie. I'm a verbose person, as you can tell. I won't shut the fuck up. So it's like, I like these movies like with film and movies like Metropolitan, Last Days of Disco. And then there's a filmmaker named Henry Jaglam. He just recently passed away. People, I don't know about him. Good, because a lot of people just hate his movies. Most people hate his movies, but I'm going to name one of his movies that I love. And the reason I love it. It's called Someone to Love. And the reason I love this movie is I saw it on TV. I caught it when I was like 21 years old, living in a studio apartment in West Hollywood a million gazillion years ago. And it's with Sally Kellerman and Henry Jaglam acted in his movies. But it's all, it's just all people talking about their feelings and love and relationships. And I thought, holy shit, much like, you know, my dinner with Andre. It's like, this is allowed. You're just allowed like to aiming a camera at like these people just talking. This is insane. But then I went, I guess that's okay. You know, just like people talking about their feelings. It's so crazy. I didn't know that was okay. So I'm like, oh, maybe, maybe it is. It's an all in one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce and more. And the best part, Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's odoo.com. From Wix, you can make a great looking website with Wix and you can do it your way. Whether you want AI to jump in or prefer to do things yourself, get a custom ready to use website in minutes with Wix's AI website builder, or choose from more than 2000 templates, get built in solutions tailored to your business and enjoy easy, fuss free domain registration. Web hosting included. Wix powers more than 280 million businesses around the world because with Wix, you can own your individuality, create freely and scale fearlessly. Ready to create your website? Go to Wix.com. That's Wix.com. And you're good at being naked. And so what? You pervert. You pervert. So what's your favorite kind of underwear? Is it risqué or is it schooly? Oh my God. Is there, uh, you know what? Here's the thing. On my day to day and living in the world, I love wearing, what do you call them, thongs? Oh gosh. I love, I do, but here's the thing. I don't want to be naked in front of a guy in a thong because I don't love my butt. Because I feel like I have like a very little non-butt. Okay. It's not my best feature. I like my boobs. I pretty much have no butt. I have a teeny tiny butt. So I want something. I like, you know, like a 60s kind of mod, hip hugger, sexy thing. So yeah, day to day, I, yeah, and I like matching undies. Even if I'm not going on a date just for the sake of it, I like, like, I don't know. This, this company, am I giving company names? Do you mind? Not at all. I don't want to know. Floor de Mall? Is that the name of them? Floor de Mall. Is that what they're called? Flowers of wickedness. Well, maybe so. It is. I'm like, good thing. If that is the name, that's a great name. Okay. Them? Cossabella, you gave me some recommendation? Yeah. Yasmin Islami. She does like, Gibo dance style underwear which I love. So sexy. And then I went on a date the other day and I love lingerie and this, on our date, you know, we're walking around, I was visiting London and he, we went into Agent Provocateur and we bought, and he bought me lingerie. I couldn't believe it's the sexiest James Bond-esque move in the entire world. We ended up having sex. I was wearing my lingerie. Are we allowed to talk about this stuff on the show? Yes, definitely. Yeah, it was so fucking hot. I couldn't believe it. I really have to stop cursing so much, but this is what it is. But, uh, that's so romantic. I mean, that's the things you think are going to happen and then they never happen. Oh, and he made it. I couldn't believe it, like the sexy gesture. And I feel like modern men, some men lately think like, oh, women wouldn't want to be given perfume or a candle or lingerie because it's not feminine. I'm a feminist. Go fuck yourself. I'd love some lingerie. Thank you very much. And if you want to see me wearing it and fuck me while I'm wearing it, great, let's do it. And so, yeah, so it was the sexiest thing in the world. However, do you mind that I'm telling you every detail? No. Okay. So the funny thing was we're like walking around, we're living our life. I'm trying to act like some version of myself that's like sexy and carefree, which I am not. And then we go into the lingerie shop and all the girls that agent provocateur like are wearing like some kind of uniform and I'm already like kind of inside being like, ugh, I'm still looking at these sales girls. I hope not, but I had to like pretend to be cool and effortless and not jealous. And I am kind of jealous and territorial and insecure sometimes, must the time, a lot of the time. Anyway, so I pick out, I pick out a thing and I'm like, oh, maybe I'll try this thing. And then, and he's like, oh, yes. Okay, great. So, you know, and then I'm like, oh, I'll be back in a minute. And then I go into the dressing room and it's just so funny how like the me, the version of me in the dressing room is so different from the, like, like I'm putting the lingerie on. I was only wearing ballet flats, which doesn't look hot when you're just putting on like some lingerie get up. You know, you prefer probably being heels to make your thighs look better or blah, blah, blah. So I'm like putting the stuff on and I'm like, oh God, I've got a scar in my stomach. I have scar on my forehead. I've got a scar here. He like, you know, I'm swimming in scars anyway. But so I'm putting all this stuff on and I'm like, you know, it's only new with this guy. And I'm like, oh God, get it together. Like just giving myself an internal pep talk, being like, okay, you got that. My nose is running. It's like cold outside. I always have allergies. My, my, my, my, I was like snot dripping out of my nose and I'm like, just get it together, get it together. And he's like, how are you doing in there? And I'm like, I'm like, I'll be ready in a minute. So these are all the things that are like going on in my brain. Like, oh God, get it together. Don't be a monster. And then I'm like, come in. And then, and then he comes in and I'm like, I'm just like being some version of myself that's such bullshit. Just trying to hold it together. And I think I did. And he got me the lingerie. I couldn't believe it. And then we went back to my hotel and had sex wearing the lingerie. So bottom line is I love lingerie. I wear thongs on my own time. And then sometimes if I go on a date and I think I'm going to have sex, I'll, I'll have a full bottom, not full, full bottom, but like a proper undie. Like a high, like big panties. No, no, not a big panty, but just not a thong. Like, like a proper panty that is not a thong. I'll have that in my purse so I can do some kind of fun switcherun ski because yeah. So just a cool, chill girl looking for love and all the wrong. Tell me when the podcast starts. It's going to be good. Oh, it's so good. Oh my God. I remember once asking, saying to my husband, why don't you buy me something for Valentine's Day? And then I opened this package and it was like this enormous pair of black pants that were like big enough to for an enormous kind of person like worked in a coal mine. And I fell on the floor and cried with laughter. And I never tried that again. Wait, why did he do that? Did you tell him? I just, um, part of my embarrassment and shame, I would never ask for something because I'd never asked for anything I wanted. So I didn't get it. And are there clothes that make you feel better when you're feeling low? Oh my God. A paper bag. Um, let's see. God, I use like a really nice fit. This is probably the most boring answer in the world. A good fitting pair of jeans. Mmm. Matching lingerie. So do you kind of dress up or down when you're feeling insecure like that? Oh God, I think I just don't leave my bed. I just stay in and bed rot is, as I've heard people say, um, oh, you know what makes me feel sexy, which gets me together in a pinch is stockings like black stockings. Wow. Right? You're a great girlfriend. Don't shoot that. But I mean, like, I don't mean like this, like also I do have those. So I should get those that come up so you could like spend over and something exciting can happen, like sex, I mean, but anyway. Oh yeah. So I like stockings. I feel like that like sucks your thighs up. It gets everything in one, you know, in one fell swoop, it sucks it all in. Yeah. And then it's, it's not too revealing. I feel safe still. Yeah. And then what else? And I guess for me, like showing the shape of my body and an A line skirt or a very short, like mini-score or something. So I don't feel, because I still want to feel safe. I want to feel safe. And I like flats. And thank God Gucci loafers come in my big foot size and this company, this is a new thing. I'm not saying, I'm not like, yeah, anyway, a nice shoe. I realize as I'm 44 years old now and finally I am building out my shoe collection because I'm actually finding shoes that fit me, which is like a miracle. It's like a big, it's like, because I wear, oh my God, dare I say, I wear a 43. Sometimes a 43 and a half in a shoe. And this company Margo, I don't even know why started making these sizes that fit my long foot and a lot of flats because I love wearing a flat. So now I have this assortment of like tiny little heels, kitten heels and flats or like a square heel. So I feel like I'm in the sixties that I can wear with my stockings and I can actually participate as a potentially maybe not repulsive active member of society. And maybe somebody will be like, who's that? But also, I just feel good in my skin because these things exist now. Yeah. I find a shoe does wonders for my morale. It's like, you know, courage kind of goes through your backbone and being elevated and stuff. The thing is, I'm so tall. So that's why I never want to be elevated. What's I should you wear? None of my business. 39. Oh, you're so lucky. Average. Average. Perfect. So you're a particular garment that you find attractive on a man. Yes. I will tell you what kills it though. Okay. What attractive on a man? I don't know if I'm just stuck in the nineties or the early aughts or I just love Oasis so much. And I'm not just saying that because you're British, but I just love a white shoe. I like a white sneaker. I like dark denim. Again, like that's like how I was dressing the way I did when I was younger to try to act, you know, some version of Liam Gallagher who was into like, you know, emo, whatever, shoe, gazey music. Yeah. Yeah. Dark denim, white sneaker, just simple, simple, effortlessly chic. Like you don't want a guy to seem like you tried. Like you just rolled out of bed. I want to smell his pheromones or something. I just don't want, oh my God, I don't want. And then I'm launching into like what repulses me is like, well, that's another question. If you fancy someone and don't like something they're wearing, does it kill your attraction? Oh God, it kind of does because even though you can, because now as I'm maturing and I'm evolving, I'm like, I don't want to change someone. I don't want to change a person. I want to accept somebody as they are, even though, you know, you can slightly cajole and change somebody's or by gifts, you know, like, but yeah, like, but also it's like, it's linked to their brain where you're like, why would they choose that? How could they not know? Why don't they have the, I mean, not like why my taste is the be all end all it's like, I got my own problems. I can go fuck myself like who knows. I mean, this is my taste and my personal thing. But, but yeah, if I'm looking at a guy and he's wearing some kind of kooky over the top like shoe or something, like a really bad dress shoe or I don't know. And like a tapered gene. What a skinny gene. A skinny gene. That's what I mean. Like a skinny gene. Really gross. Doing too much. I don't want him to be doing too much. I want it like, I like white t-shirts, black, I like crew neck. I don't want a deep V situation like the early odds American apparel kind of thing. Like I just want. Yeah. Just, oh my God, there's this guy, Aaron Levine, I just discovered on, which I think people know about this guy, like guys who like fashion like this guy. And he posts like photos of his fit, fit pics as the kids say. And he is such a good dresser. He's so like, yeah, oh my God, I don't watch porn, but if, but that, that could be porn for me. I don't know. Good outfits, effortlessly chic, minimal, simple. Yeah. Classic. AI is moving fast across the enterprise. But without visibility, it's just chaos, different tools, different models, different teams using AI in completely different ways. Service now turns that chaos into control. With the AI control tower, you see all your AI across the business in one place. What it's doing, what it's done, and what it's about to do. So you stay in control. To put AI to work for people, visit service now.com. And you have a great fringe. Have you always had that? Have I always had this? Well, actually, I have it. Well, I'm naturally blonde. Really? I'm naturally blonde, but I don't like, I don't like blonde people. I really don't. Wow. I don't love them. I don't want to be a blonde person. That's so rare, isn't it? Yeah. I don't want to be blonde, except for you and Olivia Wilde is naturally blonde as well. Really? Oh, God, she seems so great. She seems very cool. She's so beautiful. I knew I liked her. I knew I liked her. But yeah, well, I like white blonde. Maybe I would do that one day, but I'm a golden blonde. Who cares? Okay. So at a very young age, at like 13, I dyed my hair blue-black, and I gave myself bangs or a fringe or whatever we're calling them. But also, two things. I have a scar on my forehead. It's like a Harry Potter scar because I got bit by a dog when I was two years old. And so that was kind of like a way to like, even though I always love fringe, I just always thought it was such like an immediate kind of like, sometimes people think it's like a Lego hairstyle that I've got. Lego hairstyle? I don't know. Like it's like a very specific, I don't know. But yeah, I like Jane Birkin. I like girls from the 60s. But yeah, it covers my scar. And as I get older, it keeps me from, I've yet to get Botox, which is great because my whole face is falling towards the couch right now, but it's like, maybe a fringe, you can like take a little bit longer before you have to enter, you know, take your foray into Botox or what have you. So. It's interesting because most people look better with their natural color, but you really suit being dark. I know you told me you wouldn't have even talked to me if I was blonde, right? I can't imagine. Why? Why would I do such a thing? I do like having a fellow dark sister. It's like someone described someone as being a hero brunette the other day. And I thought, yeah, we need those. Oh, who's a hero brunette? Like Dakota Johnson? Yeah, she's young. God. She's got all the allure of what's supposed to be a blonde allure. I mean, it is a fascinating thing. There's, you know, that, you know, like that blondie song. Oh, your hair is beautiful. And I thought, God, that's the best line I've ever heard. Oh my God. I got to listen to this after. Yeah. Because it's like Kim Gordon has amazing hair. Oh my God. And it's like something from Andy Warhol. Someone who has hair from Andy Warhol. It has this kind of, you know, this kind of glamorous cinematic shimmer. Is that me? It matches light. Am I in the club? But you have, I think you have French film hair. Oh my, oh, I'm not at the center. You have Anna Carina kind of French. I'm not at the factory. Andre New. Unbelievable. You're not at the factory. Oh my, that's the meanest thing you've ever said to me, Bella. I can't believe. But you're in a Godout film. That's got to be some. That's good. Yeah, you could be at the factory. You could be. Nico in her dark phase, except for her blonde phase is better. I'm sorry. Oh my God. I'm going to put my hand here and then people can be like, yeah, her hands do look like Gollum. No, we can't talk about hands because. Oh, really? No. Why? Well, then we're going to start dissing our hands. Okay, let's stop. We can't do anything. Enough. We're not doing that today. No. Well, thank you so much, Alexi. What's up for being on fashion neurosis? I've had the most entertaining and riveting time talking to you and I'm a massive fan. Oh my God. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odu. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce and more. And the best part? Odu replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odu for free at odu.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. Support for the show comes from CoreWeave. Everywhere you look, AI is expanding what we thought was possible and at the center of it all is CoreWeave. Medical research and diagnosis, education, complex visual effects for movies, science and technology breakthroughs. CoreWeave powers AI pioneers around the world with purpose built tech, building what's never been built before. CoreWeave is the essential cloud for AI. Ready for anything? Ready for AI. To learn more about how CoreWeave powers the world's best AI, go to coreweave.com slash ready for anything.