Uncut Gems

The year is 2019. This is me. Alright, I'm not a fucking athlete. This is my fucking way. This is how I win. The movie Uncut Gems. Hello everyone and welcome to UnSpoo… Yes, welcome to UnSpoo… This is a podcast about good movies, critical hits, fan favorites, must-sees, and in case you miss them. We have covered the AFI Top 100 and now we are checking out movies from three major lists. The Letterbox Top 250 films of the most fans, the IMDb Top 250, and the New York Times 1000 Essential films. And we will also be chasing our own curiosity as well as… The Zeitgeist. That's right because today we are talking about Uncut Gems, a movie that is getting a lot of attention in the wake of Marty Supreme, which is odd because a lot of the times when you talk about a new movie, you look at another movie that's not made by the same director. But this is like, oh, this movie feels like Uncut Gems meets Catch Me If You Can. I've heard that a lot. I'd be open to doing Catch Me If You Can if you want as well. We should do it someday. You know, it was funny because when I heard that comparison, I was like, oh, I remember loving that movie and I've not watched it again. And I feel like that kind of is in the era of de Caprio transitioning from… Heartthrob to grown-up. Yes. Like I find it to be like though last year he was willing to half play a heartthrob. Yes. And the movie is kind of broken up in that way. Anyway, I am Paul Scheer. I'm an actor, writer and director and I'm a person who always makes sure that my trunk has one of those latches that you can open from the inside so I'll never be caught naked outside of my daughter's place. Well, at least not for the specific reason of being locked in your trunk. Right. There might be other reasons. True. Fair enough. I just needed to make sure that was clear. Okay. I also said that I had a daughter. Amy has two boys. I know. But I said it with such confidence that now I felt like I have to… I had to just at least acknowledge I have two daughters. I have two boys. You don't have two daughters. I just let that pass because I was like, you know what? Maybe you lived a whole life. I don't know. I'll tell you about my stepdaughter. Everybody's capable of mysteries. Yes, exactly. It was hello hi. I may be Nichols said I'm the film critic for Los Angeles Times. In honor of this movie I was thinking I should say my birthstone is the Emerald. I don't know if you know your birthstone but mine Emerald. You don't know your birthstone? I don't. I don't know any of that kind of stuff. Right. But let me check it out right now. Why not? Yeah. Emerald's fine. I like green. It doesn't match with a lot but my high school colors were green. Our mascot was the shamrock. So it's always synergized with my life but I do wish I had a different birthstone if I could really pick. Now what does the birthstone represent? It's just like if you were going to make your mom wear a piece of jewelry with your birthstone in it so she never forgets that she had a daughter perhaps. God. As you might, this is what they'd wear. I guess it's like a state bird or like a state snake. You know California just got a new state snake so I suppose it's a lot like that. We got a new one? Yeah. I think it's called the tiny garter snake, something like that. Wow. I love that we're still discovering and adopting into our culture state snakes. My birthstone is the garnet which Kevin Garnett. I mean come on. It ties together Amy. Look at this. Stone for a stone baby. That's right and it represents commitment, friendship, vitality and protection against negative energies. Harry. Wow. Harry our producer just had to cower from that. That was powerful. I am excited to talk about this movie because I don't know about you. I have a very distinct memory of seeing this film. It was during lockdown and I didn't know much about it but there's a lot of excitement around it because I think whenever Adam Sandler tackles a dramatic role, people perk up especially with this partnership with the Safdie's and I remember watching it in my house on the couch and because I couldn't go to the theater. That's the part of the story. I did not move. I was riveted to the screen. My heart was racing. It felt like I had ran a marathon at the end of this movie. I had never felt so tense and rewatching it last night I was like, oh, this is one of those films I would have loved to sat in a crowd with. Oh, very much. My heart breaks for you. I got to see this in a theater before the whole world went inside and I was really glad for that. Yeah. It's amazing. I mean, I like checking in with the serious sandlers. I go hit and miss. I've been kind of thinking we should redo Punch Drunk Love someday on this show. Yeah, absolutely. Because I have a memory of specifically hating that film and I wonder if I would be open to it again. Oh, I see. I have a memory of watching that film. I can tell you the seat I was in and the theater that I was in and how it made me feel again on edge and I think that that's one of the things that Sandler is really good at doing. He can play this tension, this kind. You can see that fuse burning. I think one of the reasons why I love Tim Robinson as well. You just feel it behind the eyes and there's stuff that's going on in this film that's so desperate, but he's trying to hide it so much that I feel like you can't help but care and be invested and get to a point where I didn't know the outcome of this game at the end of the movie. And that was to me, I didn't know how this movie was going to end and I love that. I loved not knowing what was in front of me and I will say as we're going to get into discussing the whole movie on the rewatch, knowing more of what was happening. I was able to enjoy the performance more, but I was I missed that anxiety, which I think only comes once. You know, it's interesting. It's you only got one chance to kind of get that great scare, you know, in a horror film or to feel this kind of anxiety in a film like this. I don't even know what you call this film. If it's Friday, maybe a heart attack. A heart attack. Yeah. I mean, you could try being incredibly forgetful, which I am. I totally forgot how it ended having. Oh, really? Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. It's my greatest gift and worst blessing is that I never remember what happens about a year after I see or read anything. So it's always fresh again, which is nice. But to your point about Sandler, and we should definitely get into this, D, for a second. I think that there's something about Sandler in particular where anybody who grew up having Sandler in your house feels this grimy affection for him. It's like he is your, your screw up brother or something. You know, you know that you will never close your heart off to Adam Sandler no matter what he does. And so I love the roles where he leans into that as hard as he can. And he's like, just try not to love me. I agree. I think that he is, he is a heart. We end there's something about this character if played by somebody else that you wouldn't love. I think it's the reason why he's getting so much attention for Jay Kelly as well, because it's we love him. We love him. He's our family, right? Like everybody loves Sandler. I've never I've been on the same stage as him. There has never been more of an enthusiastic response to a performer like he is. He is iconic and he does not carry himself iconically. It's just a pure excitement. I think it's it's a rare type of talent. You know, I saw my favorite thing on Reddit the other day. Can I tell you what it was? Yeah, please. I saw a thread of people who had just watched the movie, click. The Adam Sandler click, which is a. It is a film I deeply love because it is so disturbing and watching people experience click, go back and talk about click, have a safe space to talk about the click. Click, if you haven't seen, click with Adam Sandler. It's the movie where he has a remote control that will allow him to. Yeah, that will allow him to fast forward through his life, hit pause, whatever he wants to do. It is half of like an Adam Sandler comedy that you're expecting. And then at the very end, the leekest Lars Wren Trier movie you've ever seen. I adore this film with my entire heart. I need to rewatch it because I feel like it was one of those films that I may have been turned off by the poster. I'm trying to even remember. Oh, you would. Absolutely. It looks like the stupidest movie in the world. You'll you will cry. I know. All right. You will have a tear. All right. I am excited. And you know what? I think that sometimes I conflate bedtime stories and click as the same film. And I know that they are definitely not. But challenge accepted, Amy. I will watch a click. Oh, my God. I can't wait. And maybe I'll check it on those reddits as well. I will absolutely check in on this. By the way, I was a movie that when I was first becoming a film critic and I was getting the random reviews of movies that nobody else wanted to do at papers. I got a signed click and I was grumbling about it. Like, oh, my God, why? And I remember I was at USC at the time and I couldn't even get into a press screening. I had to go to like the tiny theater that was next to USC where they had really cheap matinees and go to the very first matinee to get my review. And as soon as I could and coming out of that theater, absolutely rocked and being like, I will preach the gospel of click to anyone. Wow. I love this. You know, I gotta tell you, it's really interesting. I made this short film, which I put out online last week during the holidays. You could watch it on YouTube. It's like I talked to a bunch of these Slifty dads. And I feel like the response I got from so many people like, oh, my gosh, I didn't expect to cry. I didn't think this was going to be in this direction. And I feel like we have. Not devalued crying, but like there is a good cry that I feel like I am missing a good cry that I feel like was prominent a lot in rom-coms and things like that. Not just like it's sad. I just read a great book to like tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow like these like we need these emotions sometimes to come through. And I feel like we are very nervous to add a cry to something that could be funny. And, uh, and I think we want it. I think we want to cry at those. Like, oh, I remember when I was growing up, it was like all these like AT&T phone commercials, like long distance phone. Like we're looking for reasons to do it. And I, and I just, I don't know. I just found it really interesting that I feel like. I wonder if. We are like lowering some of our empathy because we're just in a day with so much shit and we're seeing it like that we don't get as affected or we're not trying to challenge each other on that. I don't know. You know, I've talked about it before with kids movies, even like that ET really will fuck you up as a kid or it did my kids because they're not used to that kind of storytelling. And everything's happy. And I just, I like that Sandler at his height there and click was like, no, no, no. No, I'll do like, I'll make this ending weird and dark. Like he's not afraid. And I think he's not afraid of those emotions. I think big daddy has that. I think he has a career built on going for the heart. And I think that's why we love him because he's not above it. He's not just pushing it out to watch that documentary about Chevy Chase, who is a notorious asshole. I don't think the documentary did anything to dispel it. Maybe explain it a little bit, but. But that put, like, I think that that's why we like him because he's willing to be vulnerable and he does these things and we want, we want to cry with him. We want to feel with him. I don't know. Well, now I understand why you think you have daughters. You've just been very much in the Swifty Dad thing. Oh my gosh, I've been very much in there and it's been a thank you for everybody who has watched. It's been amazing. And yeah, it was something that we made and just put it out there for fun. OK, so let's get into this. The year is 2019 and Josh and Benny Safdie are trolling New York looking for interesting faces. And they find this one guy at the Mohegan Sun in Connecticut playing craps at 3 a.m. Now. They ask him a simple question. Would he like to be in a movie that they're shooting there tomorrow? He says yes. And they say, just wear the same shirt and boom, he's in the movie. Yeah, another guy gets discovered at a diner. One guy gets discovered on a subway platform. Several people who work in the 47th Street Diamond District get discovered and they're thrown in this movie. Even a kid who's standing board outside of his parents' jewelry shop. They're like, you, you, you should be Adam Sandler's son. Now, this idea of like the 47th Street Jewelery District is really. I don't know how much people know about this. This is a real place, right? This is, you know, I lived in New York for many, many years. It's a street that I would often avoid going down because it felt like you were walking down this like magical, weird alley. Like you knew that like people would be trying to pull you into stores and there'd be things going on there. It's a real bartering of diamonds. And this is a place where the Safdie brothers, their dad worked. Alberto Safdie worked in that neighborhood as a runner. He delivered bags of money and jewels back and forth between all the stores. Yeah. Now to put this into context, by the way, if you are wearing a diamond that you bought in America, there is a nine in 10 chance that that diamond at some point crossed through the diamond district. 90% of all American diamonds, they enter the country right there. This street is responsible for the last estimate I read was $24 billion in annual sales in diamonds. And so these runners are carrying big money back and forth. Most of their money is actually made wholesale. Not so much like, I'm walking up and buying a Furby that's covered in diamonds. But these runners, like the Safdie's dad, they run and back and forth so much that I read an article recently about a guy whose own income comes from sitting on the sidewalk, looking around for diamond chips that people are dropping. And he once made like $850 a week just looking for dropped diamonds. That's what's going on on the street. And these are the kind of stories that their dad would come home and tell them. Like this just wacky stuff that happened at work. Now he wasn't the most reliable dad in the world. He might be embellished a little bit, but he did have a camcorder and he would videotape them all the time until they commandeered the camera and started to record the real world themselves. Now when Josh and Betty get older, they start to make their own movies. And in 2009, they direct their first movie together. It is inspired by their dad and their childhood. It's about two kids. They're crazy dad. It's called Daddy Long Legs. Here's a listen. You have two choices right now. One is you continue acting the way that you're acting and you watch me blow my top or two. I hang up on you. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. You see that guys? That's awesome. Now I'm mad. By the way, the guy playing their dad in the clip you just heard, that is very important. He's an indie filmmaker himself. His name is Ronald Bronstein. And not only does he star in Daddy Long Legs, he co-writes the script and he becomes the Safdie Brothers third collaborator. From this moment on, he co-writes everything they do next. Currently, he is also the co-writer of Marty Supreme. Now, another thing about their dad, when the boys are in elementary school, he gives them a comedy album by Adam Sandler, who in the early 90s is a comedy got, especially to kids of their age. Right. I mean, that's kids of my age. This was he was the biggest thing. These albums were amazing. And the cool thing about Adam Sandler is that he is Jewish, just like them. So after Daddy Long Legs, they want to make a movie about the Diamond District, a guy a little bit like their dad's old boss, Howard. But they're going to fictionalize it. Howard is now going to be a gambling addict. He keeps getting himself into trouble by making oversize bets on everything from basketball games to the value of a black opal. The black opal is the uncut gem of the title. And they want Adam Sandler to do it. But for reasons we'll get into. It takes almost eight years to get Adam Sandler to say yes, during which the movie is written and rewritten over 150 times to fit all the other people that it might star instead. Not only in the central Howard role, but in the supporting part of a real life NBA star. Yeah. Now, if the basketball player is Kobe Bryant, then it would have to be set in 2009. And it would have to be the year of Kobe's 61 point game. Right. But when Kevin Garnett is in cast instead, then it gets rewritten to take place in 2012. That's the year that Kevin Garnett took the Celtics to the Eastern Conference finals. And it was 2012, then the weekend who has agreed to be in this movie doing a cameo of himself. He says, well, in 2012, that specific year, I was a real asshole. So you have to make the script reflect that. Crazy. And I didn't even really put that together that the weekend was playing a different version of himself. But I guess. I guess now he's thinking he's as he's nicer. Great. I love that. Now, this is the kind of calculus that happens when filmmakers merge reality and fiction. But finally, in 2019, Uncubbed Gems is finished with Adam Sandler as Howard, Edina Menzel as his wife, Julia Fox as his mistress, LaKeith Stanfield as a watch dealer named Demani and Kevin Garnett as Kevin Garnett. The movie gets released on December 13th, 2019. That is a Friday the 13th. It would go on to make $50 million at the box office and become a 24 is most lucrative domestic success until everything everywhere, all at once. I mean, and this film cleaned up at the Independent Spirit Awards. It won best editing, best director, best actor for Adam Sandler. But surprisingly, and at least from the perspective of 2026, it didn't get a single nomination in any category at the Oscars or Golden Globes. And I was really taking that in. You know, it's so fascinating when you think about this movie not getting anything. You would think even just acting. But it is interesting just as a quick temperature check of the industry right now that Timothy Shalamey feels at least like a lock for a best actor nomination for Marty Supreme, if not possibly a win. And Adam Sandler didn't even get nominated for Uncubbed Gems. Like that is wild. And I think it shows that we have, I think, added in a lot of safty energy into the Hollywood industry. I think we're kind of a more punk industry than we were seven years ago. And I'm glad for that, honestly. I'm really bad. Absolutely. And I'd also argue too, like, you know, the person who I think made the Academy Award race even more cutthroat was Miramax, the Weinsteins, right? I think they were known for this battling. You know, so they amped up what was already kind of happening slowly. And I wonder if, you know, this newcomer in town at this point, A24, they're doing it, but they're not coming at it in the way that, again, Miramax came onto the scene. You know, they're doing it, I think, through quality now through bullying. I think that's probably true. And I think there's just, I still think we're really suffering from a mental image of what is an Oscar movie and what does it look like and what should it feel like? And we just assume that certain things are Oscar movies and certain things aren't. And I think something that felt like Uncut Gems felt very much like, no, no, no, no, no. And maybe also one of the advantages Marty has is that it's set in the 1950s. And when you just see period piece, you take it a little more seriously, even though, as we're saying, Uncut Gems is a period piece. It's a period piece by seven years, long enough that maybe nobody remembers how these certain Kevin Garnett games go. Yeah, I do think that 2019 is a turning point of maybe opening the door more. I mean, we definitely have opened up the door to more films, but I feel like different types of films were getting awarded. Like there was the independent spirits and the Academy Awards. And now I feel like they're much more hand in hand, right? Didn't it feel like to you that the independent spirit awards were celebrating so many things that the Academy Awards weren't celebrating at a certain point? It did. It did. And yeah, there has been a lot of bleed where those two categories or two awards are kind of merging together. But we shall see what I found really interesting. I'm rewatching Uncut Gems is having Marty very fresh on my brain. I was reminded how similar they are, especially in the opening. Ready to launch your business? Get started with the commerce platform made for entrepreneurs. Shopify is specially designed to help you start, run and grow your business with easy customizable themes that let you build your brand, marketing tools that get your products out there, integrated shipping solutions that actually save you time from startups to scale ups online, in person and on the go. Shopify is made for entrepreneurs like you. Sign up for your one dollar a month trial at Shopify.com. Slash set up. Welcome to the realms of peril and glory. Explore the mechanically magical vistas of Vale, the paranormal mysteries of liminal London and the cyberpunk chaos of cyborg. Be awed by our incredible guests from familiar shows like Oxventure and No Rolls Bard. Search realms of peril and glory to find out more. Can we start by talking about the opening of Uncut Gems? Cause I love that we get to start with this ominous score. We're in Ethiopia. We're looking at this mine. It feels honestly the way that it shot, it kind of feels like the beginning of the exorcist, doesn't it? Yes. Yeah. Like here is a terrible thing coming from this land and how is it going to affect everyone in the big city? And you just see this guy who's broken his leg really horribly in the mine and that other people are using this injury as an opportunity to sneak in and grab this opal that they've hid. And you get this sense of, oh man, this duel is bringing with it a lot of like pain, almost kind of what feels like a curse. And then you get this neat thing where you zoom inside into this opal. It turns into this giant galaxy and you come out of Adam Sandler's colon. And when I really watched that, I was like, oh my gosh, that's just going to be Josh Safdie's sink forever. Cause that's how he starts Marty too. You know, there's a nice seat in Marty, then you go inside somebody's body and you come inside and then all of a sudden there is the egg that is getting fertilized, that is going to create a baby that is going to create a lot of tension in Marty Supreme. Well, you know, it's so interesting you say this because this is like truly his passion project. Like Josh was working on this during production while Benny was editing. Like this was like, he's like, he knew he wanted to do this idea, whether it was, you know, started with this idea of like going into gems, but this was in their mind, a place to say like, these are all the different worlds. These like mini worlds are inside such a small, you know, a jewel. Well, yeah, that's the thing that I admire about the way the Safdie's put this film together is they have a knack for, as we were just talking about the opening, zooming in on interesting things that people might not even see and be like, this is fascinating. This is the whole world. Here's a guy that we just found at a casino and he's going to be a character. They feel like they're very alert and they feel like they zoom in on what matters to a story, what drives things. Like if I feel when I watch an intro like that, that these are filmmakers looking for the story, right? Not just like, oh, here's some story. We're looking for it. There's an activity there. Right. There's like this part of me that feels like it's almost mythological. Like it's it's like Zeus looking through the universe, seeing all these beautiful things, but then focusing on something so small and minute. Like, why is that thing more beautiful than the other? I also want to address the opening in Ethiopia and how that kind of ties in too. I think this idea is. Thematically, you know, money drives us to do. Terrible things or, you know, potentially do terrible things. And what's the one thing that kind of connects us all? And it's it could be just simply that, right? Like this idea that once money is introduced, once getting rich is introduced, it we are all equal, no matter where we are and where we're coming from. Like, you know, and I just love that idea. It's so simple. And I think it's so universal that everyone can relate to that kind of craze. Yeah, you see that theme of the magic of money just pop up all the way through, right? I mean, when he goes to see his daughter's play, his actual daughter and not your fake daughter, she's doing this play that is based on a folk tale. I couldn't even forget what it was. I was like doing some searching, trying to see if I could figure out, is this a real folk tale or is it something they're making up? But the idea is that these people have blessed slash cursed a young girl from a village that every time she tries to talk, all these coins will fly out of her mouth. And you get to cut to Adam Sandler watching this play in the audience. And he's just entranced. That's his daughter up there. Just spouting coins. He approaches now. Hark, who goes there? Yeah, that sense of money, body, horror. I mean, because the other part of this is we're coming out of Adam Sandler's body. We're coming out of his colon. You know, this is like, But that's what the movie is, right? Like we're up his ass. Like this movie, I mean, like we are like we are in it. It's a cinematic colonoscopy, if you will. Because it's like we, we see everything, everything of him, you know, and they lay it bare. And so it's like, what better way to start than we are literally inside and we, he doesn't have a moment of safety. We see him as a liar. We see him as a cheat. We see him happy. We see him depressed. We see him romantic. We see every part of this person, but it's also not pretty. No, not at all. Does it remind you at all of like, like, am I saying his name? Like, Gasper Noah, like that kind of like into the enter the void kind of a thing to like, I all like, it has that kind of thing that I equate with like 2001 and enter the void where it's like, it's like an overture. The movie is like setting the tone. It's like letting you go, like, let everything drift away. You are entering into a state of not meditation, but like cinema. Like it kind of, I love it because it's like that music. It's kind of like Vangelis. It kind of just like pushes everything out and allows you to like zoom in. Now I'm trying to remember if this is a real memory or a false memory that there is a Gasper Noah phone where you go inside the head of somebody's penis. Am I making that up? Is it? I look like I'm in. I'm in. I can't remember. But yeah, it's definitely there. And I liked that you're noticing the music too. Cause the music is so fascinating here and also in Marty Supreme where it has that like also tangerine dream-esh sound. One of the theories behind having the music here be so calm is, you know, you would kind of think like, oh, this is a story about a guy who's having like anxiety attack all the time. He's running around. He's hassling this. He's, he's betting on this. He's gambling on this. Wouldn't the music naturally reflect that? You know, it's like anxiety attack music. But the theory was that if you make a score that sounds ultra calm, in a way it gets to that kind of grading tension of when you're really angry and somebody tells you to calm down. And doesn't that just make you worse? Doesn't that make you explode? Yeah. Why is that? Like why? Like I don't know why that's another universal thing like that. Like we don't want to be told to calm down. I guess we don't want to be told how to, to behave. We don't want our emotions to be in check by anybody. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, wait, my first question that I want to ask you though is, do you remember basically the first thing that Adam Sandler says in this movie? No. It's right here. Yes, I'm a block away. I told you, I'm walking around. Hey, man, who the fuck do you think you're talking to? I keep saying in front of the heart. Arnold, tell him I'm coming up now. Bobby, I need that. He does the ratso risso. He does the I'm in New York and I'm walking here. Is that just the thing that people say in New York all the time? Or is this definitely a callback to midnight cowboy? I mean, I've definitely yelled at cars in the, in the city. Like, but it's also like, yeah, you like when people don't slow down for you and stuff like that, I've hit the back. I remember I hit the back, like a trunk of a car one time in New York and I was with somebody who was not a New Yorker and they looked at me like I was insane. But it just felt like that's what you do. I don't know. Cause one thing I think is really interesting about uncut gems when I compare it in my head to Marty Supreme is that uncut gems, this is a movie very much about the crazy people who live in New York, right? Right. That everybody he runs into is from this area. They at least drive into the city all the time and they're all just going at each other. Adam Sandler is intense and he's mean and he's mendacious and he's out for himself, but he's not that different from pretty much everybody else around him. They're all kind of the same, right? Like everybody is hustling each other. Everybody is rough. That's why he makes such a good partnership with Julia, you know, playing his like girlfriend that they can both like scream and yell and like, yeah. And I love it when they get into a fight in the middle of the street inside of a nightclub and it goes like this. Big, big, tough guy. Get the fuck away. Don't fuck with that. Fuck you, I'll see you tomorrow. I'll see you tomorrow. Like you can, you can scream at somebody and be like, and it's cool. We'll see you tomorrow. But where Marty finds its own difference is that Marty Supreme is a movie about a guy who's from New York, a guy who's really hard edged, a guy who's a lot like Adam Sandler, but then it sends him around the world. It sends him to London. It sends him to Japan. And it feels more like a comment on what does this personality type? How do they come across when they're not surrounded by people like them? It's like sending, I don't know, a Wolverine into the island of the Galapagos. And what do the Galapagos think? I love that. And I haven't seen it. So I can't speak to that, but I can say what I think this movie does in a very interesting way is it really celebrates Judaism and examines Judaism. In the sense that when you're Jewish in a city of odd people, you are still the ones not to be trusted. I feel like this movie is exploring like anti-Semitism, right? This is an area, this 47th Street, which is primarily a Jewish area. And that is, I think, culturally really interesting. But I do feel like as it, you see him leave that area, the way that he is treated outside of that area, I think comes into play. And I think that that play that you referenced early, it seems like a play on like an anti-Semitic folktale of like the Jewish character who is, you know, vomiting money, you know, like, you know, it's, there is like that. It's like the way that you envision, oh, you know, Jewish people have horns. Like, you know, like that kind of stuff. I think that there's like this, this movie is examining anti-Semitism, even though the violence is brought on by his own brother or like, you know, the threat, like the major threat of this film. But I do feel like his brother-in-law, who I think is pointedly not Jewish, remember, he's not as accepted by the family. Yes, you're right. There you go. And so I'm sorry, they're, they're even better than, yeah. So it's like, I feel like this is at play. It has to be at play. It's like, you know, what is it like that you are labeled, but no one else is labeled as harshly as you? Well, you see Adam Sandler embrace the label when it feels like he has an opportunity, like when he gets to brag to, to Demani about how the very first person to ever score a basket in the NBA was Jewish. What the fuck is it with you Jewish niggas in basketball anyway? Huh? I'll have you know the first two points scored in the NBA was a Jew. Yeah. What, Fred Blissey? No, Ozzie Scheckman 1946 play for the Knicks. There we go. And I was able to find actually an interview with the real Ozzie Davis many, many decades later talking about that moment, which here it is. We won the game. I had a fairly good night. By 1982, the NBA came to me and said, look, you scored the opening basket. So it's great. I never thought about it until that time. So from that time on, I got some publicity about it and it's kept my name alive. Ozzie Scheckman received the pass from Leo Gottlieb. And Leo Gottlieb said if he had known that this was that important, he wouldn't have made the pass, but he would have made the shot for himself. I just really wanted to play that interview because I love the sense that you don't really feel like something is history until much later. I love how small big moments feel when they're, when they're just happening in real time. It's kind of the thing that makes me always want to look closer at life. But to that point as well, like part of why Adam Sandler loves this opal is because it was mined by a tribe of African Jews and he loves that connection, you know, that history, that he feels like that land becomes sacred to him. But yet he still rips them off, right? Which is like what Kevin Garnett's like, wait a second. He's like, no, no, but I can because we're the same. It's like, well, hey, all that. Like it's, it's this busted logic, you know, to a certain degree. True. I mean, it's almost like he, like he's allowing, it's not as bad because they're all cut from the same cloth. And I guess, I guess what I go back to is this idea that, you know, this money does talk about striving for money. And I do think that like that has been so closely associated in anti-Semitism. But yet it's a universal thing. But yet we put or culturally there's so much put on, you know, the, you know, Jewish people as being somebody who hordes money, takes money, right? Like it's, I don't know. I think it's a really, you know, I think it's really interesting to see them dealing with this. It's like they're not playing into stereotypes, but they are playing within a world which plays into stereotypes. Yeah. And what is it like when there is some overlap with the stereotype in your real life, right? Yeah. Because the way that money is used here, I find fascinating. I could not tell you, like even if you had a dangerous looking guy like Keith Williams Richards, you know, please fill the heavy here. Another guy found on the street, right? Or he was like, not really an actor. Yeah. No, he was found at a subway stop. That cool voice that he has, by the way, that cool voice comes from the fact that when the World Trade Center attacks happened, he was at ground zero trying to help rescue people and breathing in that smoke, breathing in that poison is, he said, really gave him that voice that he has in this film. He's always been a little bit vague about what his life was before he was cast in this movie. He said, like, I let an interesting life, but nothing that should get in the way of me doing the things I do today, which feels like, yeah, I did some crimes, but not some big deal crimes. I did some minor crimes. Those crimes, they're fine. It's all right. But, you know, we see him really early on as one of the very first threats where we don't know that he's not a normal customer. And then when Adam Sandler is trying to bring him water, trying to force water upon him, he gets really angry. You didn't bring him any water? This is our own spring water. We're the first on the block to have that. Your parents happy for you? All right, so I gotta tell you, I'm in a bit of a rush. I'm on much time because I gotta, I gotta get. When I tell you, I said no water. Didn't I tell you no water? I think it's in your best interest that you find some time for you. Yes, yes. But the telling thing about that scene is that Adam Sandler gets slapped in front of everybody and doesn't react, right? Like, you suddenly have this strange insight into this character that he can get demeaned in front of people and he keeps it cool and he walks back to the back and he tries to stay calm. That reaction is fascinating because I think we're more used to seeing people in films where like, you slap me, I slap you back twice as hard. Right. Well, I feel like it's, it's this energy that he gives off. Like he is a salesman, right? He's running this shop that's not on the, you know, not on the ground floor. He has some weird dealings with the money and the watches, even though he doesn't really want it, like he's got some, you know, some design shops, right? The Furby and, you know, he is a salesman. A dated design shop. So dated. Yes. Furby's are so old by this point and nobody even like quite, what is, what is Kevin Garnett say? He's like, is that a gremlin? Right. I mean, and I, and I do feel like what you're seeing is someone who is never going to take no foreign answer. That slap in the face, like to another person would be, you know, we're going to draw the line here. He's like, nope, let's keep on going. He may talk behind your back. He may maneuver behind you, but he's like, nope, nope. He just keeps on going. I mean, he traps those guys in that, you know, little security box and just thinks that they're all on the same page. Like he is running a thing where he feels like he can, you know, he'll, he's never going to slow down. He's never going to stop. Like I feel like the most that he really takes in or you see it really being hurt is when he catches Julia Fox with the old version of the weekend. Um, and he's mad, but he immediately is like, you're dead to me. I'm done. Forget you. I'm out and just goes. Right. He's like, he's a mean. He's never stopping to take in consequences or the damage that he himself is feeling or that he's inflicting on others. Well, he's an end game thinker, right? This is how I win. It's not, this is how I live my life day to day. I've become a good citizen. And this is how I win. And that's the other thing I think he really has in common with Marty. It's all about, can you get to the table? Can you win the game? You know, it's about the success of the goal. And in the hope of that success, he'll just keep charging forward. He makes a tiny success, but a basketball player takes his big opal, maybe he'll buy it, maybe not. I don't know. But as soon as he gets that, he takes the ring that he's given, that he knows is precious, this like championship ring and immediately tries to hawk at his collateral to try to keep the hustle going. And that's what I find fascinating is I think often in movies where there's this money, crime, debt, element, you're very aware of what the debt even is and how big it is and maybe how much he got it and how much they owe left. And can he pay it off? Is he halfway there? What do you need? Are we going to put on the big show, right? And save the, save the schoolyard? I could not tell you how much money he is in debt for here. I could not even tell you who everybody he's in debt to is. Right? Like you have those like two gray haired twins who start showing up just walking around to have fascinating faces. And Lord only knows who they're connected to and what he owes them. Right? It's just, you get this, it's almost overwhelming how little you know. And I think that adds to the stress. He's got this compulsive need to control, right? Like, okay, I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. But he can't read the room. Right? He does like, he's like, I'm going to control it, but he doesn't know. Like he, he is missing that part of his brain. But in a way that I find fascinating, because he's selfish, but he's not selfish in a way of like, I want everything. He's selfish, but also he feels like he's responsible to everyone. But he feels like he wants to be the big guy who takes care of everything. And I think that when he takes to slap the hit, the throwing into the fountain, you know, whatever it is, getting stripped naked, bitten, whatever, you know, it's like, he takes all of that. Like, okay, okay, got it. I got it. I got it. Like, like he, he is. I feel like he's not learning, right? Everything gets more and more intense. Everything gets more and more, you know, the stakes get raised at every point in this film. And it's a cautionary tale in the sense of like, look at what's happening. Make a change and he won't like, you're right. Like he won't like, he can't do that because he's so blinded by the big score. He's so blinded by the getting rich quick, but I don't even think he would know what to do with it if he got rich quick. Right. What are we talking a couple of weeks ago about? Do you live in the past, present or future? Right. Yeah. I mean, he, he is clearly future, right? He only lives in the future. And when there's even warnings, right? When, when Julia is on the helicopter heading towards the casino with his like big money, can he make this big bet? Can he win the day? She's meeting that like really rich, high roller guy, you know, Wayne Diamond. I'm playing Wayne Diamond right here. Love him. This year, I made $125 million. I don't even know what to do with my money anymore. I have nobody to spend it with. Nobody to enjoy my life with anymore. It's horrible. Today is a big day for me. I think you got hot. You want to have a drink when we get there? I mean, he says something really interesting. Like I have gazillions of dollars and I'm miserable. And that does not feel like a future outcome that is at all on Adam Sandler's mind, like dot, dot, dot, you get your gazillions. And then he just thinks I'll get the gazillions. It'll be great. And I love that this is Wayne Diamond's character here, basically playing a version of Wayne Diamond himself. Wayne Diamond, we should say looks like that in real life. Acts like that in real life really did make tons of money as a dress designer. He's a guy who started his career as a bagel salesman when he was young, just hawking bagels, whatever he could do to make some cash. Decider when he was young, he was going to be a safty character. He was going to get rich. That was like his main goal. So he got into dresses and his dresses really took off like in the disco era. And every time you hear him talk, he's just fascinating. Here's a little bit of like just Wayne in real life. In the old days is the way we used to be in the garment set. Everybody would have their hand blown out, their nails done, everything done right, polished, you know, whole bit, you know, you got to look good. I'm a better looking guy now than I used to be, I think. What do you think? What do you think, baby? You see the way people dress in New York? Come on. I mean, it's a joke. New Yorkers dress like sh** like slobs. I mean, every f**king old guy in New York wears a striped shirt. Or you got to be able to come up with something better than that. And this is why I really like the casting in this movie so much is you look at a guy like that who's just walking the walk, right? He's living this life. He's doing the thing. In a way, I feel like the Safty Brothers make films that remind me a lot of last years, Oscar winner, Sean Baker. You know, they find a tiny world that they think is fascinating. And then they do this mix of actors and just people living that. You know, this movie, I think has a lot in common with something like Tangerine. I love that. And I love that in both of their work, they take a person that is steeped in some sort of culture or, you know, lifestyle that probably a majority of people do not identify with. And then by the end of the movie, you find yourself identifying fully with them because it's not about the labels on top of them. It's about who they are and the foibles that we all have. Um, I think it's a way more interesting way in because you don't have to make your characters generic. You can show them in a really, you actually get more fun by showing a world that is so heightened, you know, or, or specific. Um, and, and I, and I think that, you know, in this movie too, you have to understand that Adam Sandler's character is not good at his job. Like he's good at schmoozing, but he's not good. He's not a good gambler. Yes. He made two good bets, right? In this movie, we'll receive them. I'm sure he's had a whole life of like some bets work, some bets don't. But I feel like two bets that people call the dumbest fucking bet, but then he's right both times. Right. And the whole movie is based on this idea of something that he thinks is worth so much money, but it doesn't even seem like he, you know, examines it. Right. Like he's so like he bought into his own story. He's a storyteller and that's what's going on here. It's like he is constantly like the child that is lying, you know, getting in trouble, trying to get out of it, trying to be cute, doing too many things, not realizing anything. Like, so it's, it's hard to find sympathy for a character who it wasn't like he got ripped off by Kevin Garnett. Everything worked together, but like the minute he gets a Garnett's ring, he goes and, and pawns it off to get more money in. Like it's everything is like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And you feel that. And that's what that was that first watch for me. It was like, oh, God, oh, God, why, why, why, why, you're there. You're almost there. Like, but he will never, he will never make it make sense. If he got a million dollars, he would have put a million dollar bet down on something. Right. So it's this, it's this constant chasing of your tail. But I think that that you can see that in people who are addicts. You can see that in because I don't know if he's like, I don't think he's a gambling addict, but I think he's got this personality of like, of being the best he could be. Because even the life that he lives at home is so different than the life that he is living in the city. Like he's, he's lying to everyone. Who is he? We get the most look at his life and I don't know if I can describe him. Well, I think he almost is exactly what he presents as, you know, I don't think he's as much as I'm calling him a liar and mendacious. In a way, I think you look at this guy and you know exactly who he is and what he's, he's not fooling anybody. Right. Like if he was incredibly calculating, if he was the catch me, if you can guy, maybe he would be manipulating people and they'd be shocked by it. But everyone knows exactly who he is. I mean, it's the way even Julia tells him, you know what the deal was when you met me. Like he's not, he's not bearing it as well as he thinks he is, if he's even trying to bury it at all. Probably the funniest thing he does in here is something that you're almost describing when he's trying to win back his wife temporarily, when he thinks, oh no, I might be left alone for a second. And he gives her that sweetie pie little face. He's like, don't you like me? Don't you like me still? And she's like, absolutely not. You know what, Howard? Say yes. What? I think you are the most annoying person I have ever met. I hate being with you. I hate looking at you. And if I had my way, I would never see you again. Of course, you're mad. You're mad and it makes sense. You can punch me if you want. Oh, thanks. Hey, I wish I had this ready for you. I don't want to touch you. I mean, I think that is one of the best times he even tries to pretend to be something different than what he is. What I like is that the movie exposes who he is in different contexts. Because there's moments when you can look at him and be like, he's kind of living the dream. Maybe he is kind of cool. He thinks he just won this big bet. He's going to his girlfriend's house to surprise her. We get doubly surprised because you're just expecting that she's going to be this gold digger that he can't trust. But it turns out she does like him. She is pretty faithful. He does turn her on. I don't understand why, but I guess so. It's true. So he looks cool one minute. And then a couple of scenes later, he's at a nightclub with her and suddenly surrounded by genuinely cool people. He looks like the lamest guy in the world. And that exposes him, right? His surroundings. You know, there's a thing in this criterion collection essay that described him as like the Luftmensch, which is like the Luftmensch is an air person, the Termen Yiddish. It's someone who lives on nothing, chasing impossible fantasies, making deals out of the air. And, you know, and I feel like there is something about that. There's something beautiful about this, that he has these bigger plans. Like if only this will hit, then he will be that, right? You know, and I think what's interesting about him is I feel like he owns it. Going back to stereotypes and things like that, I think he owns his stereotypes and plays into him like that scene with Edina Manzela. He's played like he plays, like he knows he uses stereotypes to help facilitate a situation, how to make them get easier, right? Oh, well, you won't get mad at me because I'm just a cutesy or you won't get mad at me because I'm just to this, you know, OK, it's my brother. I'm just to that. Like I'll get like he is what everyone wants him to be. And it's not working, but he's constantly changing. He's not a successful jeweler, right? He's not a good family man. He's not in control, but he's performing like he's performing. Like being alive, being happy. I mean, like it's like it seems like that's where his joy comes from, you know, you know, and I think it comes down to that scene. I don't know if you have this clip, but when he's talking to Kevin Garnett and he's like, this is my way. This is how I win. Like that's his philosophy, right? Like this, you know, I think he just he sees himself like Kevin Garnett. Everything is a game and he is going to win. This is no different than that. This is me. All right. I'm not a fucking athlete. This is my fucking way. This is how I win. All right. All the fucking hard work I do, all the fucking ass kicking and the dudes I pay. A great story like Monsters Inc. stays with you forever. And Disney Plus is where you'll find your next great story from the return of the award-winning hit series, Rivals. Welcome to the naughtiest show on television to the unmissable crime drama, High Potential. Got a dead body. Got to go. A lifetime of great stories awaits this spring on Disney Plus. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. The war is over and both sides lost. Kingdoms were reduced to cinders and armies scattered like bones in the dust. Now the survivors claw to what's left of a broken world. Praying the darkness chooses someone else tonight. But in the shadow dark, the darkness always wins. This is old school adventuring and its most cruel. Your torch ticks down in real time. And when that flame dies, something else rises to finish the job. This is a brutal rules light nightmare with a story that emerges organically based on the decisions that the characters make. This is what it felt like to play RPGs in the 80s. And man, it is so good to be back. Join the Glass Cannon podcast as we plunge into the shadow dark every Thursday night at 8 p.m. Eastern on YouTube.com slash the Glass Cannon with the podcast version dropping the next day. See what everybody's talking about and join us in the dark. I'm spoiled. You know, I think Kevin Grena is perfect casting for this because if there is one thing that Kevin Garnett was really known for around the league, it was for being the most competitive man alive. The man who's going to, you know, break his ankle to make it to the basket to win the last point to tie the game, you know, to take to bring us to overtime. Like he would go to the absolute mat. And that's the kind of player I really admire. Like I feel like you need at least one of those on any team for any team to have success, that person is going to drive you really far. Like, well, here's, I mean, here's Paul Pierce from the Celtics talking about what it was like to be on a team with Kevin Garnett. He changed the whole culture. It was just like, all right, this is serious now. It's like we, we went into games the year before expecting to lose. Now we going from expecting to lose a look. We got Kevin Garnett over here. This guy's been MVP all NBA. We're talking about winning the championship now. So the whole culture changes and it was just like a breath of fresh air because now you know, it was like, this is serious now. No more cooling around in practice. It was no more lolly dagging or, or not going hard. It was like the intensity just went up around the whole franchise and I credit that to him because we know what type of intense competitor he is. And he just, he didn't have to say it all the time, but just when you knew when he walked into the room, you're going to have to play as hard as you can. And so I like that because a player like Kevin Garnett, you have that little extra, that extra drive that Adam Sandler knows it's probably safe to bet on Kevin Garnett to win this game. Cause he knows that when Kevin Garnett decides he's not losing, Kevin Garnett is not losing. There is a psychological aspect to being a victor, right? Well, right. And there's something about like, and I think that the original or there, there's a few different people they went through like Amari Studemeier, I think it was the first, then it was Kobe Bryant, like we talked about. But what I think is interesting about Kobe is Kobe is Howard, but successful. Yeah. Kobe has that exact drive. And it's like, I will, I'll shoot 61 points. I will do the impossible. He fully bet on himself. And when he was vilified by the media, he became the black mamba. Like he just, he knew how to pull off those twists. We just talked about that with Kill Bill, how he took his name from that. Yeah. And I feel like that to me is really interesting. Like he has a physical confidence. Right. An unwavering confidence of refusal to follow the path of least resistance. Yeah. And it's always confidence. Because Kobe could go off and have the best grand game of his life and your team would still lose. Exactly. I could never be a Licker-san while Kobe was on the team because I didn't like the way he played. He wasn't a team player. Right. And this is like, and I feel like that type of personality is rare when it is successful. Like Kobe obviously is someone who is a legend in this game. And, and you, and I think a lot of people forget that he was as selfish as he was. I talked to a lot of people and I go, yeah, but he wasn't, he wasn't a team player. Like, you know, but he was the person who made the highlights. It's the reason why we talk about Kobe and like when we shoot trash into the garbage of the Kobe, like it's, he created his own thing that kind of stood outside of basketball. You know, and, and I think that like, I love, I love that he sees himself on par with that. I think that Garnet is representing that in this moment. Right. Like he's going to get it. He's going to do it. Yeah. When Garnet wins, he's like, this is just about me and this rock. In the end, I felt like it was just me and the rock. Nothing else. By the way, great clip that they were able to get that. I love that they like, I was like, wow, they said that is perfect. Did he actually get that? I was trying to go back and find evidence that was real. I'm not a thousand percent convinced. I couldn't find, I wouldn't really trolling looking for any. Okay. So maybe it is. You know, I, of course, I probably reshot it. It just looked like the old footage. Well, they did it very well. I mean, that's part of why they needed to have Kevin Garnet instead of Amari Sudamir last minute is because Amari Sudamir had grown dreadlocks since he was in the NBA and he wouldn't shave them. So if you put footage of him in the past, it didn't work, but Kevin Garnet had the same haircut. So it worked. All right. Let me just say one thing to you as we're in this moment. Okay. Ha, Kobe Bryant, a gem, right? A true shining bright light. I'll put, you know, Kevin Garnet there as well. Is the uncut gem Howard? Is he the gem on the inside? You just can't see it through all the other shit. Like, yes, there's an uncut gem in this movie, but is he the uncut gem? Oh, he seems so cubic zirconia. I mean, honestly. He thinks of himself as he does. He does. But when you look around his world, one of the things I think that's so smart in the production design is everything he has looks expensive, but all of it looks like an idea of what he should have from the past. Like he's dressed in a way that looks expensive-ish, I guess, but it's kind of what you would have thought you were supposed to buy before you had money. Right? Like he's aspiring to a lame type of technology. Well, in a way that I like. He's Rick Moranis from Ghostbusters, right? Dropping names and bragging and, you know, but it's not impressive, right? It's like, you know, he's just, yeah, when he's, my favorite line is what he says. Like, I know every DJ in the city. Yeah. Like every like what? Like I'm like, and then with like, he says like DJ in this, it's like, oh, what are you thinking? What are you doing? He's so lame. And again, it goes to show you how lame he is, but it's a yes. He's, he's, he's trying to achieve a success that he never got like in the 90s, but yet he hasn't matured even in that. Like he hasn't tried to get to the 2012s, which is on this movie. Well, yeah. And he's building more kids just like him. I mean, his kids, one of them has the race car bed. The other one has like a room entirely full of toys and is talking about gambling with his kids. Like he's teaching his own classmates how to gamble. He's just making more hymns. He's raising more crazy spoiled children. Yeah. I, I mean, tell me that I'm not the only person who has a visceral reaction to seeing somebody with a race car bed, right? Cause it just makes you think of, oh man, that was the rich kid. That was my idea of who a really rich kid was when I was eight. Yeah. I mean, I looked at that and I was like, I want that. Yeah. Yeah. Or in his own office and Adam Sandler's office, he has the Tesla ball. I have always wanted a Tesla ball, that magical glowing orb thing where you touch it and I still want one. Like, I, what about the other kids bedroom with like the, the chain net and all those like, uh, those vine, what are they called? Vynomations or vine animals or whatever it is. Yeah, the proto funko pops, whatever they were. I, you know, the Safdie said this thing about this movie is like trying to belong, but also cheating God. And, um, and you know, I think that's an interesting thing. I think they talk about like, you can't beat God. I, you know, and, um, and I don't know if that is like literal God, but like, he's losing sight of where he is. And I think that the, the, the fact that this movie kind of hits this big moment in the Passover scene is really interesting because it's like, you know, it's, I believe and correct me if I'm wrong, but like Passover is about like, you're supposed to like kind of get, uh, meaning from suffering, right? But he's not learning anything in this moment. He should be reflective, right? He should be, he should see like, Oh, I, I have made, I have made mistakes. I need to change who I am. Yeah. I mean, he's listing off the plagues, right? He's performing the part of the, of the dinner ceremony. And what he's doing that, I just keep thinking. Is he imagining how his own life is stacking up against these plagues? Is like, man, I would take some locusts if it got me away from those like two gray haired guys. Here we go. Damn. Blood. For there. Frogs. Canine. Lice. Aroo. Wild animals. Devar. Pestilence. Scheme. Boils. Barat. Hail. Arban. Locusts. Khoshch. Darkness. Makat b'khorin. Death of the firstborn. Hard core back there. That can still happen. You don't watch yourselves, kids. Or does the suffering make him stronger? I mean, I don't think that it's at all a coincidence that Julia, his girlfriend, is very much coded as somebody who was raised Christian. She's wearing like a crucifix around her neck. She has a tattoo, even before the tattoo, she gets of his name, which makes him incredibly sad because now they can't be buried together. I mean, she has a tattoo on her chest that says, I think, a spiritus. So to me, she's very much from a Christian religion. Right, right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. Yeah. And then she gets, of course, like her other tattoo on his ass. I want to actually listen to the scene where he's sobbing because he's almost but pushed beyond the past of the limit of the plagues that he can handle. And then he discovers that she's tattooed his name on her on her on her on her ass. You're my home. You could come to me. I can't figure out. You can't figure out what I'm supposed to do. Everything I do is not going right. Everything I do is not going right. I don't know what to do. I really don't. I don't want anymore. That's shit. I really don't. I gotta figure this out. I gotta figure this out. I really do. Well, I got something you want, but you can't make one of them. I got it so stupid. But no, I don't know. I got it. I thought it would make you feel better. Look, I'm set my skirt. This is Howie. What did you do? Why would you do that? You don't like it? No, I do. I'm not worth it. I'm not worth it. You are worth it. Look, Howie, I'm so crazy about you. Yes, you do. I love you. Oh, no, you can't even get married with me now. That's OK. One thing I wonder about in that scene is, is he truly imagining that maybe he will have a life with Julia and they could be married together? Because that's kind of romantic, if true, despite the fact that he's married. He's not going to trade Julia out for a younger Julia. I mean, yeah, but I feel like in that moment, right, everything is a moment. It's an addiction. It's an he's addicted to gambling, is addicted to her. He will get over her. He threw her away so quickly, right? But then they both knew that they needed to come back. That's true in the way he does it. When he's like mad at her and he sees her again, he just goes, no, and spills her juice. Yeah. Yeah, you can turn it off. Yeah. I do think that there's this great documentary I watched. It's a he's a mentalist, right? His name is Darren Brown and. It's a great film. I'm going to get it. Look him up. He's great. And it's this idea of like how we view the world, like if we believe in the luck, if we believe in this, but also how we can ignore how we can shut out if we believe a certain thing. And I feel like he shuts out the world so clearly, like nothing is. He has this amazing ability to shut her out, to shut everything, to compartmentalize he's this whole movie, like he should be learning every moment of this movie from the play to the to the dinner to the relate when he catches his girlfriend. Like he sees everybody doing something. He should be learning big, big lessons and he learns nothing. And I do think that that is also indicative of the way some people are. They couldn't like, like. We have to also cut off those people in our lives that are never going to learn. I think that's an important lesson to they're not going to change. Some people are just wired to be this way. Well, and he's missing even the clues that his family is over him. Right? Yes. Because when he comes home from that disastrous school play and his wife has seen him humiliated naked, climbing out of a trunk, just puts on new clothes, goes back inside, everything's fine. He thinks he pulled it off and you see the daughter and his wife exchanged just a glance, right? Just looking at each other. And it means probably the entire world. We're sick of this guy. We don't care about him. He doesn't notice. He still thinks he can talk to the daughter, be like, how's it going? Win her over. He doesn't seem to clue into the fact that she's completely over him. Doesn't care about him anymore. And I think that those are some scenes that Adam Sandler, I'm going to guess, found really important because, you know, he did say no to this a couple of times. Or technically he says his manager passed for him. Yeah. But they wrote it for me like 10 years ago and I was and I didn't, you know, they sent it to me. Sandy got ahold of it. My manager, he said, absolutely not. And I, how dare you? Not, no, not ever. That's the guy that stopped you from doing Guardians of the Galaxy. Yeah, right, cool. No, no, it's a kill you. Come here. Hey, so he put a pass on that. And then I guess a couple of other people they talked to and that didn't happen. Then like five years later, they offered to me again. I didn't see it. And the old Sandy stepped in and goes, why shish? I read this piece. You shish. I said no. When he finally agrees to take on this project, it's because he does love this after his work and he's like, oh, wow, good time. Interesting movie. All right. I want to see what these guys are up to. And I love his curiosity, just going with that. These people made something good. I'll put myself in their hand. But the one thing he was really worried about is that the original version of this character did some things and they've been vaguely written about some things that he felt like he didn't want his own kids to watch him do, that he had to shift this character of Howard to be a little bit more, not quite family friendly, but family relational. I mean, I'm guessing it was, I don't know, snorting cocaine off hookers or something like that. I have no idea what he took out of it. But I would like to imagine in my narrative that he added scenes like this to show how Howard is as a father, for the worse, but to make him a family man. Right? There's a tragedy in seeing how much he doesn't understand that his family hates him. Oh, I think that Stanley was very nervous about doing this movie because he was like, I don't want my kids to see this until like they're 60 or something like that. Right? He said, but his wife really encouraged him to do it. Like he asked for a few changes, which is like, I think originally Julia Fox's name was Sadie and that's his daughter's name. But I think that, you know, I think what Sandler plays, and we talked about this in the beginning, is that hope is genuine. Right? It's not coming at like, it's not like I got to get this money on a fuck you. I'm going to fuck everybody up. It's like he, we want to, he's a dreamer. We want to believe in him. He's got this thing. It's dopey. It's not vicious. Right? He's not a violent man. You know, and you're right. Like we see his daughter going, oh, he's an idiot, but we see the son going like, oh, yeah, I'm like, my dad's cool. I'm already gambling like him. You know, and Although he's learning though. He's learning. Like I think it's really tragic when he takes his son to check on Julia to see if Julia moved out of his apartment without wanting to admit that he's got a Julia in an apartment. And he won't let his son into the place. He makes his son go and use the bathroom at his neighbor's place who he says was an actor in good time. And that's got to be just like a call back to, hey, we made a movie called good time. Right? Oh, no, you know what it was? Was they, they were shooting and I know the story. I don't think it's apocryphal at all. They were shooting in that building. They just found out that John Amos lived there and they're like, well, you just come in and just do this cameo. I think it's funny and weird and he's like, yeah, do it. But how perfect is it that it's also the title of their last movie? I mean, come on. It's too, it's okay. I if that is a coincidence, it makes me incredibly happy. But despite that, they're leaving the building and the kid goes, hey, that guy said there was a hot girl in your apartment. You mean mom? And he just wants it to be the mom so much. She could still fit into her Batman's for dress. She is still hot. But she, but he still shows up for his family. Like he wants to, and that's the contradiction of this character shows up. For his family, but it's always interrupted, right? By a game, by a phone call, by an emergency, he's being kidnapped and whatever it is. You know, he, um, there's a want like he wants to be there. I don't think, I think to your point, he is playing a version of success. The successful people in his life have a mistress. They, you know, they have a hot girl. They have their regular wife. They have a family. They can do it all. Right. It's very like, it's like that obsession. I grew up on Long Island. Everyone was obsessed with like the mafia and good fellas and fucking Godfather. And like they all want that goomar and they all want, you know, like, you know, in theory, right? And I feel like he's, he is in equipped to do that. Or I should say ill equipped, but, uh, you know, and he is constantly like his heart is, I believe his heart is in the right place. He just doesn't know that everyone can see through him, which is also to the point that he keeps on saying, which is like, he is oblivious to the world around him. He is just somebody who is trying to rock the boat, but doesn't even realize that there's no boat. Well, yeah, I love that Kevin Garnett has that scene where a you get to realize that Kevin Garnett is a pretty good actor in this movie. And he just calls him out on exactly what you're saying. What the fuck's going on? Man, ever since I met you, man, you've been giving me the run around with everything, man. What do you mean? I feel like you're fucking with my emotions. You're just playing with me at some point. This hasn't been straight since I came here. You understand? Why are you saying that? Just a bar at the open. Just one thing, you know, I come back over here, I brought it back. Howard, I brought it back. I didn't have to bring it back. You understand? You know, I show up at the auction, you had somebody beat against me all these fucking games. Like, the fuck are you doing, man? Like, you don't know. You don't think I know this? You don't think I know none of this? It's complicated, cage. What I love about that is almost what's most offensive about Howard is the idea that he might think he's tricking you. Right. Right? Like, that's offensive. You're obviously not, dude. We all know who you are. We all know you're not good for this collateral. We all don't trust you. We all know you make bad bets. And it's offensive that you think that you think that you're tricking me. And do you think that he lives in a world that's afraid to call that out? Or have they called that out so many times that they just are like, you know what? You know, we're done. We're too tired of this. I mean, I think that's definitely where his wife is. Like, what's the point in even arguing to try to make you live in my reality? It's a tragic story. And, you know, we were talking about the Muppets Christmas care a little while ago. And it's very much like Scrooge without the lesson learned. It's a different Scrooge, right? But it's true. Like he threw away his entire life and he will die. Like, what would have been the uncut gems version of this? You know, what would have been the Charles Dickens? I mean, this is this is the life of Scrooge in a way. A money lender who, you know, he's a diamond dealer who never changes his ways. You know, I would say there's this more fucking in drugs in it. Well, I mean, yeah, we don't know the uncut version of Dickens. I mean, do you know that Rato did do a line of coke off of off of Gonzalez nose? But besides that. But besides that, I mean, is there an argument, though, that they're both happy endings? I think it's a very happy ending. You do. OK, good. Because I think it's a happy ending for him, too. I mean, this guy's life is not going to end well, right? No matter what happens. This is the only way out. I know I think I said that so quickly that I even tried. But no, it is. It's like. Yeah, he dies at the happiest he will have ever been in his entire life. It's and that is a blessing. It's a blessing to his family. It's a blessing to everyone around him. It is a blessing to Julia. She gets to be in a limousine with a bag of money. It's just in the circle. It's like it's he's just. Yeah, the pendulum goes up and down and they got him on an up. And it's like it's never going to stop. It's never going to stop. And that's that's the only way. And then we go back inside him. I mean, I wonder if all of these camera things going inside people. It kind of forces you to empathize with him. Like going inside is the literal thing that a movie does to create a character, to create empathy. We are under we are inside him and we understand where he's coming from. And we are ambulating this crazy thing called Howard Ratner that's running around. Oh, he's also rat rat. So Rizzo, everybody's got a rat. Are there really that many names of rat in them in New York? I don't know. Maybe. Brett Ratner. I also I don't know what this means and and and forgive me for not coming in with a bigger theory, but that shot on his face. I mean, this movie shot on like anamorphic lenses. So just his face is always so beautifully shot and big and but it's so small. The bullets are small. Like he gets shot in the face, right? And and I think the movies that we are used to seeing like bullet wounds are intense, right? You know, especially that. And he almost looks kind of perfect. Doesn't he? Yeah, you they won't maybe even have to have a closed casket. Yeah. I don't know what I think about that. I don't know like what that means, if that's like. In a way, I mean, obviously, the bullets going inside of him. There's an element of that, but there's also this idea of we don't know the horror of his death. Like you said, an open casket because he won't look like he actually did, like, which is his life. No one actually knew all the horror of it. They assumed there are certain things that happened. But, you know, it's kind of. Yeah, one shot killed him. That was it. Yeah, it seems like the kind of death where you could say he was dead before I hit the floor. Yeah, he's still smiling. I mean, that's that's creepy. Like wherever he is, he's smiling forever. And, you know, I guess that is a a dark ending. But like to your point, I love the reframing of it, right? It is. It's it's it's the only way out. You can't stop it. He can't stop the machine. Powerful. Yeah, but you know what? He hasn't seemed to be afraid of this ending either. It almost feels like it comes out of nowhere for this character. Oh, he doesn't know. Because he's not even worried about death. He's just like, I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. He doesn't read the room. He like, like it he thinks that these guys care. Give him a shit. Like he thinks that they're going to be celebrating with him. But that fucking guy, that guy is the scariest guy in movies. Like I truly like you feel him. Like when they go in there and they take his watch, take his money, it's like they hang him from the window. Like they are scarier than anyone. Even that hallway confrontation with Kevin Garnett's like security. Well, he's exasperated them. You know, like he thinks it's all about the money. And if he gets them the money, then they'll forgive him. They they think. No, you have wasted my time. It made me feel like an idiot and I am done with that. Like full stop. The money doesn't even buy back my dignity. Yeah. Holy shit. It really is. It's so dark. Yeah, but it's so dark. Then the other ones, the gray haired brothers that we never get to really spend enough time with to know what's happening and what he owes them. Those guys, one of those brothers was one of the people that the Saptis cast from seeing them in a diner. They saw one of the gray haired brothers eating with a bunch of friends and just walked over and were like, you, we need to put you in a movie someday. Someday, like years went by before the movie came together. It was like, we're keeping touch with you. Oh, you have a brother. That's fantastic. I like that there are so many sets of brothers in this movie. You know, the gray haired brothers, the brothers who are at the pawn shop in real life where they're taking the rings. Those are also brothers. But these specific brothers, the gray haired ones, their last name is the Winnegs. There was a minute where a version of this film was that the Winnegs would write the soundtrack and they wrote about 10 songs that were all about uncut gems that were going to be the soundtrack of the movie. And then they did not go with that. But one of them survives if you want to hear it. Yeah. All right. Picture the gray haired brothers being the musicians of this movie. I got to say, I do love a theme song that just says the title of the movie. It's catchy. I mean, not bad. I take it. Yeah, I think it could work. I mean, look, it worked for Will Smith. That's true. We really did live in the golden era of just turn the title of a movie into a hit song. Now, can I ask you a question about this? Do you think, where do you think it goes? Like sequel wise? Like, I'm not like, not that it's supposed to, but what do you think happens to these characters? Right? Because we get like, because Phil and Nico don't have the money. They've killed their boss. They got a bunch of jewelry. They're definitely on camera because they couldn't forget where the cameras were. Right. And the sirens are coming. Right. So I don't think they get a happy ending. I don't think they get a happy ending. And then we get Julia, who, you know, she's got a $1.2 million payout, you know, and she's going to find out that he's dead. I don't know. I mean, and then, you know, I feel like. I think she'll have a great year. I think she'll take that money and not do anything wise with it. I think I saw a thing that said, like Julia Fox said that she would give half the money to his family, which I thought was like, I don't think I buy that from that character. No, not at all. I don't even know if she knows how to get in touch with them. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. And do you think that, like, do you think that Dinah, his wife called the cops? No. Do you? Okay. I don't know. I read this thing where somebody was talking about, like, because he calls and says the thing about the gas leak and she knows he's a bullshit artist. She's like, maybe something is happening here. What's going on? But it's a full game. Oh, no, I guess it's middle of the game. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe. I don't know. I mean, do you think that she's sad that he's dead? No, I think that he just saved her a really messy divorce. Okay. There it is. Honestly, I mean, maybe that's brutal. I think she'll have to sell a car or two and maybe they won't be able to live in that house anymore. I don't know if she has a job. I'm going to guess she doesn't have a job. Do you think that Julia runs after the weekend and they hook back up? I don't think the weekend wants to have anything to do with her. I think that she's like a one night thing for the weekend, in my opinion. Not even a full weekend. Oh, but you know, we haven't really talked about though, like he's Stanfield. Oh, yeah. I think Damani is going to be fine. And I love that Lekeith is in this. He's one of my favorite actors. Just every time he shows up, I find him so interesting. Damani to me is Sandler 10 years ago. Right. He's nothing sticking to him. He's making plays. He's lying. He's courting people. He's probably cooler than Sandler is. But he's on the path. That's the ghost of Christmas past, if you ask me. I think that's true, which I mean, in a couple of years, Damani is going to be the one on the real hard town swing. Yeah. Damani is going to be the one being like, oh man, the springed out Furby used to be cool a gazillion years ago. You know, and I feel like, you know, and I think that this is like the movie is, and wow, now I'm really getting like the whole Christmas Carol thing. If he's the ghost of Christmas past, Julia Fox is the ghost of Christmas present. You know, I, I mean, I, I guess to me, it's Phil is the ghost of Christmas future. Right. Like the consequences are coming. Take a look at this. All right. All right. It's his ring. I understand. It's from his Instagram. It's fucking blowing up right here. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So what do you need for it? I figure that thing is worth 80 grand. Just loan it to me. That's it. Just float it to me. I'll be back for it. Number one, we both know what's in here. We both know that the value is mostly because it's memorabilia. But it is a memorabilia piece. So that's why you're going to sell it. Right. I love this movie. And actually this had much more to impact than I thought it was going to be. I feel like there's a lot more going on here. I really enjoyed my second viewing of it. And I'm surprised I haven't watched it again because I liked it so much, but I sometimes feel like when I get such a visceral feeling from a movie, I don't like to rewatch it. I don't want to like dull that sensation. But I listen to the soundtrack all the time. Yeah. I had the same feeling. I was surprised that I had not rewatched this movie. But it lives in my head. I remember it as being wonderful and sharp and I felt the movie in my bones. And I, it hadn't occurred to me that I'd only seen it the one time because it felt like I'd just known it. That's the same. Same, same, same. Now we were talking in the beginning about the Academy Awards and the way the machinations get started. Like you said, we're in the middle of the Academy Awards season, probably even later in the Academy Awards season than we know. And we obviously are talking about this because of Marty Supreme and all the attention that that's gotten. But going back to what we talked about in the beginning of the episode, there was one person who I think gained the Academy Awards in a different way or brought the Academy Awards into a different competition. And that was the Weinsteins and most notably with Shakespeare in love. And I thought maybe in this Academy Award season, it might be fun to look back at this movie that was the film that kind of, I mean, did that put Miramax on the map in a, in a, in a, in the way of like, we are the Academy Award hub type of place? I mean, it was their first win and it is the movie that people point to quite early on and they say the Oscars can be gained because that movie should have not won and it should have definitely been Schindler's List and how dare it. And if only Miramax hadn't pulled some shenanigans, Schindler's List would have rightfully won Best Picture. And I've been wanting to go back and revisit this because when we did our Saving Private Ryan episode, correct me if I'm wrong. I think we were both a little bit underwhelmed. We had remembered the film as being more impactful than it was. And what really stuck with me is that that movie was right for a moment where people were really trying to connect with their dads who had lived through the war. Yeah. No, I think you're right. And it was important on an emotional level, but maybe it wasn't the film itself that did the work, if that's fair to say. And so I've always wondered if like Shakespeare and Love got an unfair knock because of that association that it didn't deserve to win because it was one of the only comedies to ever win. I think it was the first comedy to win the Best Picture Oscar since Annie Hall. Wow. And so because of that, I have wanted to go back and see how this movie genuinely holds up. And I think it's interesting to do a Shakespeare romance when Hamnet is almost certainly getting a bunch of Oscar nominations. Well, I love this. All right. So Shakespeare and Love can be found wherever you stream films. Make sure you also check out Hoopla on Canopy, which are public library services that allow you to get these on your devices or free. We will continue this discussion about uncut gems on our sub stack, which is free. Just check it out. You don't even need to be a member. I think you could just read it, but you know, join up, do whatever helps. I don't even know why it helps, but it's fun. Fun Schooled is produced by Amy Nicholson, Paul Scheer, Molly Reynolds and Harry Nelson. Sound engineered by Corey Barton, music by Devon Bryant, episode art by Kim Troxel, show art by Lee Jamison and social media production by Zoey Applebaum. This is a Rome production. See you next week. Bye for now. Legendary stories, awe inspiring sound and endless adventure. Welcome to the realms of peril and glory. Explore the mechanically magical vistas of Vale. The paranormal mysteries of liminal London. And the cyberpunk chaos of cyborg. 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