Welcome to the McShea Show. We have the Decision Makers series that we're going to continue today. We're very fortunate to have Mickey Loomis with us from the New Orleans Saints. How are you doing, man? I'm doing great. We're doing this because I've always felt like one of the missing components in covering football has been kind of the decision makers, right? We talk to head coaches and the players. But I think there's a lack of information about the actual process. Man, we're excited about this new partnership. This episode is presented by Scout Motors. Every new year, we do a lot of forward thinking and planning for what's to come. Just like the all-new Scout Terra and Scout Traveler, they're being revamped for what comes next, taking that classic 70s design and improving it with modern engineering, including plans for advanced four-wheel drive. So look ahead. Join the wait list at ScoutMotors.com, just like I just did. Concept vehicles not available for sale, Features and performance specifications are preliminary and subject to change. Joining the wait list does not guarantee purchase. Visit scoutmotors.com for details. I wanted to start here with you, Mickey. Tyler Shuck is a unique prospect in that he felt like he was in college for a couple decades, right? So he might be a little different than a quarterback who came out with three or four years. but just for we have a lot of avid fans and fans who love the game of football but maybe don't know the intricacies of the scouting process. When's the first report? Like if you went into the Saints system right now and look back, how many years, when was the first report? And kind of walk us through how that escalates as you get closer to the draft. Yeah, that's probably not going to be as precise, but it's probably three years ago. Right. You know, because obviously they're eligible after, you know, three years out from high school. And, you know, Tyler started at Oregon. And so we're familiar with him there, familiar with him at Texas Tech. And then obviously his last year at Louisville. But probably about three years ago. And I remember talking about Tyler a year before, two years ago. And one of our scouts said, hey, this guy's going to be under the radar because he's, you know, been hurt. Yep. This was before he went to Louisville. So he hadn't had a long string of starts and success without being injured. And so one of our scouts kind of felt like, hey, we might get a steal here. Yep. As an undrafted free agent early. Right, right. And then he went to Louisville, had a great season, and obviously climbed up the draft boards, and we were fortunate to get him. I'm curious, too. So you hire a head coach who played the quarterback position, coached quarterback specifically, offensive coordinator. The collaboration process, right? Because at the end of the day, it's your decision, and you have a scouting staff that you rely on and trust that you've put those individuals in place, and you believe in your process. How does the collaboration work? Because you don't want to draft a quarterback, especially that maybe the new coach is not in line with, but you also want to make sure you stay true to your process. How does that work for fans that are kind of curious behind the scenes? Well, you know, I think every place is a little different. I would say this is that I would never bring a player in that our coaching staff didn't want. So we're going to work out any, you know, disagreements or any little things that, you know, might bother them or bother us. we're going to get that worked out long before we make a pick. It was true with Jim Hazlitt when I started. He was our head coach. You know, Sean Payton was our head coach for a long time. Dennis Allen. It's been the same process for us always. I believe in getting our coaches involved. I believe in getting their opinions. You know, we want our coaching staff to have skin in the game for any player that we bring in because we're going to rely on our coaching staff to develop those players. And so if they've got an investment in time and a positive opinion, then I think that's going to benefit us in the long run. When did you know that Chuck was the pick, and did you feel any pressure? Did you ever have to go up and get him, or he wasn't going to be there? Well, you always feel pressure to go get someone. And, look, I've got a history. Our team has a history of moving up and very seldom moving back. You're not afraid of being aggressive. No, because I just feel like why would I want to go back and get a lesser player if you believe in your board, right? That's the principle behind that. But I do understand, you know, moving back and collecting more picks and taking more shots. So I understand that process. But for us, it's always been, man, we fall in love with somebody and we're going to go get them, make sure we get them. That was just a matter of, you know, you make these assessments of whether he's going to be available because you want value for the pick too. You definitely want the player, but you also want to manage your draft and use your assets accordingly. So, yes, there was pressure because we all liked him, and so we had to wait a while. Pick 44, is that what it was? Second round, yeah. If you move up, maybe you don't get a Quincy Riley later on. That's the thing, right? Right, that's exactly right. 40? Excuse me. Sorry, I got my guy Doug here. It must have been a long wait. Yeah, it was a wait. And, look, we had some guys in our room that, ah, they were kind of, you know, maybe we should go up and get them. I bet. And, you know, there was some discussion about whether that made sense for us. How much do you look at the board, too? Like, these teams don't need a quarterback. Yeah, you're paying attention to that. And, you know, now with technology, we have all these mock draft simulators. and you know we run through 150 of those you can run just like this you know and so we run 150 or 200 scenarios and there's only like one or two where you know he's taken in front of our pick and so there's always a snake in the weeds yeah that influences you but here's the deal you know gms are not simulators right right and a lot of them are really good at keeping um keeping their decisions close to the vest. So, but it worked out. Then organizationally, right? We've seen so many different ways to make it work. And Shuck isn a top 15 pick like Mahomes or Josh Allen or Drake May But how Well I think if you remember right when Mahomes got taken I don think a lot of people had him in the top 15 No. No. You know, he was going to be farther down the line, probably closer to the 20s. And, you know, Kansas City had a conviction, traded up in front of, I think Arizona was who they thought was going to take him, traded in front of us, and they took Pat. Right. But then you bring in Tyler as the 40th overall pick. And organizationally, it's so important then to support him properly and make sure you don't throw him into the fire too early, but he's also not the youngest prospect to come out. What were those conversations like after you draft him, knowing your situation with you and Kellen talking about, how are we going to support him best? Yeah, well, I think in a perfect world, You take a young quarterback and you let him get acclimated and you let him sit and follow somebody else and develop. I think history has shown that that's been the best method. I mean, a lot of these guys that have had a lot of success, you know, Tom Brady sat for a year. Aaron Rodgers sat for, what, three years? Right. Jordan Love. Patrick sat for a year. Patrick sat for a year. A lot of them sat for a good amount of time. And, you know, on occasion there's a guy or two that, you know, start early and have some success early. But history shows that it's just better to get acclimated and understand the league, be able to take a deep breath. There's a lot of pressure on these guys at that position. And so in a perfect world we wanted to, you know, give him time to do that. Now, you know, Derrick Carr retired, so we were in a little bit different circumstance. But we had Spencer, liked a lot of things that Spencer did. So we had the luxury of kind of letting that play out in training camp, and we went with Spencer. And, look, he did a lot of really good things. But it got to the point where, okay, let's see what Tyler can do. And he's an older quarterback with a lot of starts in college, a lot of play, and so a lot of maturity. So it's a little bit different circumstance with him because of the amount of time he spent in college. And it worked out. He had a great run of the last nine games. But I think that not starting at the beginning of the season was really valuable for him. Last one for me on Chuck. So I've done a lot of research in the last several years on when you get your quarterback, which is the hardest thing you're doing this week, right? And so now you feel like you've got your guy. What do organizations do that would have been successful the next year in the draft specifically? A lot of times we've seen a shift to, you would think, right, like, all right, let's get them a running back. Let's get some wide receivers. But a lot of organizations that have had success, and it surprised me when I did the study, they kind of went heavy defense the next draft. I'm not looking for you to give me answers on what you guys are going to do. I'm just saying, have you kind of looked at what's the best way to support them and what's our approach, or does it just stay true to our board? Yeah. Well, let me give you a long answer for that one. Okay. So I was hired in 1983 by Seattle Seahawks. Our general manager was Mike McCormick. Mike McCormick later became the president of the Carolina Panthers as an expansion team. Before he was the general manager of the Seahawks, he was a head coach of the Baltimore Colts. And before that, he was the head coach of the Philadelphia Eagles. And before that, he was a tackle, offensive tackle for the Cleveland Browns. And in 1984, he was elected to the Hall of Fame as a right tackle, as a tackle. Great player. So I say that because that's who I learned a lot about this game and about rosters and how to build a game and how to build a team. and what can be successful, it comes from him. It comes from an offensive lineman. So you know what I'm going to say next, right? He's an offensive lineman. He would say, Mike would say, and we would all say, hey, the most important position on any team is a quarterback. We all would agree with that. But he would say the most important room is the offensive lineman because if they can't function at a high level, then it doesn't matter how good your quarterback is because he won't be able to function. And I think the culture of most teams begins with the offensive line because they've got to be smart. They've got to be tough. They've got to be selfless, great teammates, see something, say something type of guys. And so that's why you'll see the history of our organization. Since I've been the GM, we've drafted a lot of offensive linemen high. It's important to get that room right. And we're building that room, right? We've got first-round picks at left tackle and right tackle the last two years. We've got a center that was a second-round pick and a right guard that was a first-round pick. And, look, we've had some other guys. Some worked out, some didn't. But we've got to get that room right to begin with. And that way, Tyler can develop. He can take time. You know, young quarterbacks are going to take too many sacks. They're going to hold on to it too long. There's no difference in that. But, you know what? What that means, that means you offensive linemen have to hold your blocks a little bit longer because you've got a young quarterback back here. And so we've got to get that room right. We've got to play well there. And then we've got to be able to have a run game and then obviously have a good defense. And we played good defense last year. I thought our coaches did a great job, particularly after Chase Young came back week five. We had a really good defense from that point on. And so we've got to build on that as well. At the risk of making Todd angry, because he said just yesterday he's done talking about this. But it's been a big subject, especially with the tackles last year, arm length. 34-inch arms. Everyone's supposed to have 34-inch arms to play tackle. You've had success drafting guys with shorter arms. I mean, Ryan Ramchick was one of my favorite prospects coming out of college. Kelvin Banks last year, you know, sub-34-inch arms. We talk about it in a way of, does it show up on tape? Are there certain numbers or measurables, specifically I guess with the offensive tackles that you look at and say, this is something we need to dig into, or you're just tape-based, character-based? Well, look, the thing about measurables, and not just measurables, but all the drill work, all the things that we time and test, they're important because we know that there's a range that 95% of our league is going to fall within, right? at any position. And, you know, I tell our guys all the time, we're not looking for exceptions, because if we keep finding exceptions, we eventually getting fired because there are exceptions for a reason So we not looking for exceptions And yet you got to look at the whole body of work And hey a really good player is a really good player And I would say that, again, we're not looking for exceptions. We want to have guys with 35-inch arms and perfect measurables, but they don't all have that. And another factor is, hey, what's the scheme that you're running? Sometimes the athleticism is more important than the arm. Sometimes the ass and mass is more important than the speed or whatever it is that you're measuring. So I would say that those guys fit all the measurables except that one in those cases. Yes, I would agree. Is there one other one I can ask you about? is the history of the Saints drafting running backs. Yeah. And that's another thing you hear. You don't draft running backs early. You weren't, I don't think you were the GM yet, but you were a part of the organization when the Saints drafted Deuce McAllister in the first round. Yeah, that was Randy Mueller was the GM. I worked for Randy. Randy and I were there together. We had Ricky Williams at the time. And just, that was, look, that specifically was, Deuce was a player that we had ranked in the top five players in the draft that year. And we're picking 21, I think it was, maybe 22, right in that vicinity. And I was like, you just can't pass this guy up. I know we got Ricky Williams, but we can't pass this guy up. And so Randy made that decision, and it was a good one. I mean, Deuce is a good friend of mine now. Oh, really? Yeah, my son actually played basketball together at the high school. Oh, that's great. that they go to. But he was a big, fast, I mean, he's a pump returner the first year, for crying out loud, at his size. There's 230 pounds around that. And as I recall, he led the league in 20-plus yard runs for the first few years of his career. And then, you know, he had a knee injury, and his career was cut short by some injuries, but great back. We drafted Mark Ingram in the first round, and that was a good pick for us. Alvin we were lucky enough to get in the third round Early third though I think people look at that and say third I think the third pick of the third round He's a guy that we liked a lot And Sean Fell in love with Alvin For good reason He fell in love with him Sean went to his I think we had a private workout with a bunch of guys From Tennessee that year And Sean came back in love with Alvin Because of his brain Because of how smart he was and the things that he could do. But, yeah, we haven't. Offensive lineman, we've had a lot in the first round. Running back, not so much. I'm going to move this closer because we have a coaches convention that just broke out in the middle of this. I'm curious because you've been doing this for a minute and you've had a lot of success. I actually tried to reach out to some people who have worked for you and I was trying to dig up some dirt and some things. There's some out there, I'm sure. You know, but honestly, everyone just thoroughly looks back on their time working with you and really appreciates how you've done it. I'm curious this. With technology and the game changing and everything that's gone on, when you look back to where you were when you first got your, was the GM job 2002, I think? Yes. Okay. To where we are now in 2026. How have you evolved? Oh, good question. I don't know. I probably can't answer that. I'm sure there's a group of people who say, I haven't evolved. But it's a good question. You know, obviously we have a lot more data available to us. So we try to take advantage of that. But it's always just a tool in the toolbox. You know, I say, look, we have really good evaluators in our building. You have really great coaches in the league. And so we've got to trust what these people are expert at. And yet the data that's available to us can either confirm or contradict what RIC. And so if it confirms it, great. And if it contradicts it, well, let's dig a little deeper. And that's the way we treat it. So I'd say that's one of the areas that has changed. I still think it's blocking, it's tackling. It's fundamental stuff. And, look, it's harder for college coaches now to coach because the transfer portals and the things that these players have to go through now at the college level. So we probably need to spend more time on some of the fundamental things that we believe in because the game's a little different when it gets to the NFL as opposed to college game. And look, I think college coaches do a great job. So this isn't anything against any of that. It's just, you know, our game's a little different. So we have to spend a little more time recognizing, and it's different for every player, right? What can they do? What do they do well? What are we gonna ask them to do, and how can we get them to do it better? And yeah, but that doesn't answer your question. No, no, it does. It does. Because I think sometimes with all that change, some people can get away from their roots and get away from, like, at the end of the day, what's important. I think it's important to have a firm anchor with what you believe in and what you do while still utilizing what's coming along. There's only 32 of you in the world. It fascinates me, right? And how hard it is. Like, you look around the Senior Bowl or we get to the Combine and how many scouts, how many coaches, How many people that are aspiring to be in the seat that you're in? Yeah. And there's something special about that, right? If you were to look back and talk to your younger self, 20, 25 years old, right? Yeah. And give yourself some advice now that you've been through all these wars, what would you tell that young man? Well, let me go the other direction first. Okay. So, hey, when I'm 12 years old, I think I'm going to be a wide receiver for the Green Bay Packers, right? When I'm 16 years old, I think that I'm going to be the shortstop for the San Francisco Giants. And then when I'm 20, I think I'm going to be a point guard in the NBA. And then when I'm 22, I recognize that I'm not going to do any of that. So here's what I'm going to do. I'm gonna be a basketball coach and an AD at a small college. That was what I intended on doing. And so I say that because my 12 year old self, my 16 year old self, my 20 year old self would all look at me today and say, you're a miserable failure. You ruined our life Right Look I been fortunate You know I been in the league 41 years You know yes you aspire to become a GM when you an executive in our league but it a lot of luck. You've got to be in the right place at the right time. have to happen for you to get one of these jobs because as you said there's there's so few of them um and i love i love doing it because i love the people um you know the work's great but i just love the people that are in the nfl they're high achievers they're smart they're great people great teammates you know scouts um they're everyone's passionate about their job in our league that's That's, you know, it's a great thing about it. We choose to do this, you know. I didn't choose to be here because I thought I was going to make a bunch of money. In fact, I thought I can make a lot more money doing lots of other things. You know, I'm a pretty smart guy. And, yeah, you know, we make a good living now. If you get to be a GM, you're going to make a really good living. And a lot of these positions in our league now because of the growth of the league. When I started, there was 40 guys in the whole office, right? Now we've got 300, you know, so it's crazy. And we've got, you know, in our situation, we've got a basketball team as well. So it's, that's, you know, the magnitude of everything has changed dramatically. But it's still part of, hey, I wanted to be involved in team sports because I love the competition. I love having a result on, you know, after game day. And I can say, look, we won or lost. And you're going to feel really low. As you guys know, you feel really low when you lose. But you're not going to feel high with the wins if you don't have the lows. And so that's fine. It's part of the deal. And get your blood going. And it keeps me going. I'm 69 years old. And, man, I have energy. And I'm excited about going to work every day still. So I didn't answer your question, did I? No, it's amazing. It's perfect. Two more, okay? And then we'll let you go. I know we've got a busy day here. I want to ask, we've had several different GMs, and I'm kind of asking, because I think there's, for whatever reason, people are really intrigued. Because we have 400 players that we wind up whittling it down to from like 1,300 throughout the process. I'm told, and maybe I'm wrong, I'm told your board at the end of the day, like when we get there for draft weekend, your board is maybe a little bit smaller, more condensed than some other teams. Is that true? how big is your board typically and what's the the process behind yeah it's it's uh a lot less than uh what is it 276 picks how many picks are there 276 i think 250 yeah supplemental and all that yeah yeah so we have a lot less than that on our board um and and jeff ireland who's our uh college scouting director this is a lot of his system as well as you know a blend of what what we believed before he got there and what we've collaborated on since. He's got a formula that you've got to have this many people on your board in the first round. You have to have this many for your next pick. And the formula has never failed. But it gets a little nerve-wracking. I was going to say, what happened? We've been later in the draft at times, and there's only like two or three names up there. that it's a little nerve-wracking, but they've always been available. So, yeah, because we're trying to get it down. These are the guys that we want, and the rest of it just kind of becomes clutter. Not clutter. That's not the right word, but you get the gist of what I'm saying. These are the guys that fit what we want to do. They fit the profile of what we want to bring into the locker room, and these are the guys we want. And that's why we trade up, not the back, generally speaking. Right. Yeah. All right, last one. And we've had Eric DaCosta, Howie Roseman, Nick Casario, all wonderful. You know, the time we spent with them was wonderful. But they absolutely have failed us to this point, and I'm hoping that you don't. You're in New Orleans, right? Those guys are all really top-flight GMs, too. But they failed us in this area. Yeah. I haven't gotten a great story about the spread for draft weekend. And you're in New Orleans. We talked about Koshon before you came on. Butcher we just went to the other day was amazing. I think you have an appreciation for good food. What's the spread? Who's in charge of it? What's it look like? How important is that to you? Because that would be a really, it would be high on my, that's why I'm not a general manager, but that would be really high on my priority list. Yeah, well, I see Jeff Ireland over here. He's kind of taken over responsibility. for the spread at the draft jeff come over here come on jeff jeff come on over but i would say this the one thing that we did that we have that's really unique is is uh we're talking about the spread for draft weekend the food food the catering yeah we we generally have um we'll have a sushi day definitely here we go yeah and with uh uh and who's doing that for us rock and saki still yeah rock and saki um shameless plug there and and we'll have another shameless plug because we'll have Drago's for the oysters, charbroiled oysters. Yeah this is by far the best bread. Yeah and then we'll have just a variety of... Little Tex-Mex of course that's my background. Yeah we're not wanting for calories because here's the as you know you guys know there's a lot of sitting around during the drafts. What do you do? Nervous eating. Yeah there's a lot of yeah a lot of eating. So you guys care. Some thought has gone into this. See Howie, see Eric, see Nick. This is the answer I was looking for. I appreciate it. So we're going to get more time with you, but we're going to wrap up and let everyone get out to practice and meetings. So this has been wonderful. Really appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Thanks. You bet, guys. Must be 21-plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino, or 18-plus and present in D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
