The Jail Blazers Finally Tell The REAL Story | Rasheed, Damon & Bonzi

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Man, I wanted to welcome in my brothers, Rishi Wallace, Damon Stoddermire and Bonzie Wells. Fellas, what's happening, man? Yeah, rubbing. What's going on, baby? Rub them burn man hands. Let's get let's get to it. What do you do? What do you do? Man, I can't call it, man. I got a chance to check the dock out yesterday and it. I love this type of shit because this is what I was watching, trying to come into the league. This is high school for me, college for me and being able to see. I think the biggest thing I took from it was the misconception of what the jailblazers were, because I think this happened in a time where you guys didn't have voices. Now, if this shit would have happened now, y'all could have hopped on your own show, somebody else's show, hopped on your phone and cleared your name immediately. But this happened in a time where it was the paper or it was one of these major sports outlets and it was never our side of the story. It was always their side of the story. So first and foremost, what did you guys, how did this project come together? Well, I speak on the real fast. Well, we appreciate you having us on. But yeah, this is for me, this was something that I was really wanted to do. Even when we got into the podcast and space, always wanted to talk about our story and people needed to hear the real. And even when you see the doc, you're going to know, you know, she story, Damon story, even my story and how it was nothing. And I've always, even when I was in the moment, I was like, when stuff was happening, I was like, man, this is nothing. What the? And I really wanted us to have a voice and then, you know, going on through life these last few years or whatever, you always kind of get judged when people see you kind of always get called these things in that narrative or whatever. So I just wanted to kind of put it out there and just just tell our story. So I kind of been kind of floating around these last few years, just trying to figure out how to connect the dots. And it finally came together and when she and Damon agreed, it just kind of just avalanche to where we at now. Dame, what was your thoughts on the project? I thought it was good. You know, for me, just to kind of piggyback what Bonzi said, I mean, I did it more so for closure because I wanted, I just kind of wanted to, you know, there's a lot of things that I talked about in the doctor. I just really hadn't talked about, you know what I mean? And so, you know, I just thought it would be a good way to just kind of, you know, talk on it and be closure. And then I kind of, it's crazy as it sounds. You know, I thought that it would be closure for the organization too, man, because they've been carrying that cloud too. And it's like it is a misconception, you know, and it was just like, you know, and you said it, so I don't got to repeat it. And today's today in 2026, we could have told our story. Like they had cams on police officers, you know what I mean? Like stuff that they was doing. You could have been here with guys and saying all the different things. And so it's just, you know, it's so much and we were all and we were young. We were immature. I think that there were things that obviously we knew that we did. But at the same time, too, you know, it was just good to be for me. It was it was it was closure and being able to talk about those things and and just kind of put it to rest and just kind of, you know, move on with life. Sheed, I felt, I mean, I always feel your passage and energy when you speak. But when I think about the greatness of your career, obviously, you start in DC. You win a championship in Detroit. But I think when I think Rashid was, I think Portland Trailblazers. What was this like for you to speak on this? Because you're not really someone that really addresses too much shit. You know what I mean? You let it go, which is crazy to me, especially because I know how animated you are and you are very opinionated. But you be letting shit go. So for you to jump on this, what was it like for you? Just I wouldn't hear Bonzi and my fucking messages every day. That's what it was like for me. I got tired of hearing his shit and my damn messages and on my phone messages. Come on, she checks in me and shit. I know. Oh, shit. Honestly, for me, just to set the story straight, you know, it was it was so many other reporters on both narratives, you know, the black side and the white side that came out with their own opinions about that whole jailblazers team and and everything that we did and this and that. But the funny thing that I've always told Bonzi and Damon, because as Bonzi mentioned before, it took it took it took a while for him to get this going. You know, I would have to say, Bonzi was the one that spearheaded the project and he told me about his a long time ago. And now I know he's finally happy to see it come to fruition after all these years. But for me, just to set our story straight. And one thing I've always said to him and Damon like, yo, let everybody else tell they should they could tell it. I don't care for the simple fact. They're telling it from their point of view and nobody really going by this shit. This and that. Once they find out what it is, no matter if you're doing documentaries, paperbacks, you know, all this other stuff, but telling it on a podcast. But here's the thing. They don't have Bonzi voice. They don't have Damon voice. They don't have my voice. They don't have Pip voice. They don't have some bonus voice. You know, the guys who actually been through it, you don't have a voice. So is actually discredited your story or your documentary or your book, in my opinion. And then so for us just to set the record straight with it, you know, as Damon mentioned, this has been a, I guess, some sort of a cloud. I wouldn't necessarily say a black cloud, but as it goes on Portland, I would say somewhat of a gray gloomy cloud that hangs over the organization a little bit from this. And it's good that it's finally getting out and possibly hopefully it'll put it the rest we know is going to be a little hot topic, you know, maybe for the summer. But after that, you know, I know the organization will probably be happy. Like, look, all right, we got this done with. Let's go. Let's move on. I mean, I think she before you jumped on, we talked about, I mean, just the misconception of the whole narrative of Bonzi never got in trouble. Says some shit, you know, in a magazine, which we'll get to. And y'all got in trouble for some shit that's legal now. So like, what are we like, what are we really talking about? What's the narrative? So I think my next question is obviously the jailblazer tag gets thrown on you guys. When did it become on your radar? Did you see it on TV? Was it in the paper and a two part question? Once they kind of stuck that on you guys. How did it make you feel? I mean, I know for me, you know, I was young and I kind of it started chirping like maybe my first or second year, maybe for sure my second year. And honestly, for me, I liked it because it kind of, you know, I grew up in the Midwest, you know, Detroit bad boys. So I always know how this I kind of figured that. All right, we the bad boys in the NBA and it's OK. And I thought it was something cool at first. And then when you look at the big picture, obviously you don't want jail and all that associated with your name in terms of, you know, culturally and narrative where we're from. But just being like a bad boy, I thought that's kind of what it was. And I thought it was cool. And I held it with a badge of honor every time I played, every time I went out there, because I was like, OK, I want to be a warrior. I want to be this type of jail mentality where that's what I want. I'm thinking that coming into the game and that's going to give us some type of an advantage just coming in that they think on that we on. So we might shank you type shit. Some guys like that. So yes, that's what, you know, and that's what it became, you know, and we maybe said it amongst ourselves that we felt comfortable going in every game. We was up 10 to 15 points just going into the game because people didn't know what the fuck was going to happen. You know what I mean? So I think I myself personally held it with a badge of honor. She was my God rocking the damn Blazers. You like that? You're being real political today. Well, she, you know, they invited us back. They gave us a little swag, man. I appreciate it. I had the rep for him today. Like I said, for me, it didn't matter. I knew I knew what my teammates thought of me personally. I knew what my family and friends thought of me personally. So I mean, and I've heard it, you know, amongst our friends that we had out there in Portland, but I never really read the local papers because I knew all they was doing was just talking shit about us. So it's like, I don't want I don't want to sit up here and read this all the time about people talking shit about us, no matter what type of game you had. Like shit, they can go out there. You could have had like 90 with like 35 assists and and fucking eight blocks and all that. Right. But guess what? Somehow, some way for them, their silver lining is opposite. They're going to find something negative in there about the performance. You know what I'm saying? They go out there like God to have a performance of his lifetime. But they'll oh, well, he gave up the time bucket or, you know, why can't we see this person every night and blah, blah, blah, blah. They're going to find some type of negative feed about it. And that's what it always was as far as the media goes. As far as the organization, in my opinion, I mean, shit, they love this. We never got no, no real like bad feedback from anybody from the higher ups in the organization to the people who was in the front office every day. You know, people were still, hey, what's up, cherry? If we see him out and about somewhere because Portland's so small. Hey, what's up, is cherry? You know, it was never no no bad blood with the actual organization, to be honest. Not for me, not for me. I I thought. I thought it was disrespectful. And so from the perspective that I came from, these two dudes were, you know, we had that we had that. And I was and I was the guy I was from Portland, you know, so I knew the streets. I knew the pulse of everything. So I would all I was like the connector, you know, somebody if we got a new teammate, whatever that happened, like everybody, hey, man, don't go over there. Like, come on. Like, hey, man, I heard I heard, man, I heard you was over. And then you can't go over there, dawg. Like, I know it's Portland, but it's real up here too now. Like, you know, you know, and so I felt like I felt like with our team, we had the pulse of the streets. And so in Portland, like it's northeast Portland, north northeast Portland, then in southwest southeast. Yes. Then it's south, southwest southeast. And so my whole thing and with the whole jailblazer moniker, man, and it was like to me, that's like a it was almost like it was an undertone. It was a it was a undertone of being racist without being without directly being raised. And I just wanted to ask that. I didn't like it. You know, I wanted to ask that because I kind of felt there was a little there was a little racist undertone. Yeah. And so that's so I was saying it. So me being from Portland, I didn't never want to believe it. You know, I, you know, there's you got pockets everywhere in America, right? You know, so I understand that, but it was just like a lot of people that I've seen in the audience and the in the games, the crowd. I mean, if I didn't know him, I knew the face. I seen the face, you know, whatever that might be. And so I just start from the perspective of that part, you know, because the one thing that wasn't alluded to and I thought the doc was good. It's so good you could probably make two to three other parts. But I didn't think the thing that was alluded to the most. Banzi was younger, but with me and she, right, I felt it was disrespectful for everything that I was actually doing for the Portland community. So how are you all going to sit up here and say X, Y and Z when I'm I'm doing stuff? Right. Like, you know, she was doing stuff. She had cold drives. You know, I used to I used to I used to I used to do a lot of stuff for single for single moms being in my mother was was was a single mom. You know, I'm the one to help build the health head start building, you know, with the help of Paul Allen, everybody, which at the time was was the biggest head start building in the country. And so for me, that's what I'm saying. Like, man, y'all sitting up here talking about that. About jailblazer, man, talk about this. Yeah. Where where is the articles on this? Too positive. Yeah, Dave, I want to back up a little bit because obviously getting a chance to go home and play you win rookie the year. And then you, you know, you make your way back home to a very talented team. What's your initial thoughts when you're coming to this club? Man, I was excited. You know, I, you know, I I'm just looking at the roster, looking at the team and, you know, the makeup of it. And it was, you know, it was, you know, at that time, it was it was, you know, she was BG J.R. J.R. Stacy, well, bonus. I came with Walt the wisdom. Lo J.O.J.O. was there. That's a young J.O. young J.O., right? Young J.O. But but but the fun, but the funniest thing though, and I know this ain't even a topic, but I just got to talk about it because it's man, it was so funny. So, man, I was so excited. I was so excited to get to the team, man. And I remember we flew all night. And so first of all, we get on the plane on Paul's plane. And I'm like, yo, this is the plane. Yo, it was a wet bar. You know, we was we was watching BET. Now this is 98. Now we watching satellite on the plane. And I'm like, then we turn we turn it up to music, man. We we got we we got we got three course meal. And then we and then we we get the Portland. Man, we go to practice. Man, I boys, you know, I don't think nobody had on the uniform at practice. Man, she practice with with his sweats inside out. Jersey backwards. Man, somebody else had on a fooboo shirt. I was like, what? I was like, OK, I was like, OK, I was like, OK, this is this is I said. Interesting. Oh, we had we had we had some we had some characters. Then he asked you, John Crotty, now more names are coming. We still had Rick Brunson. Rick Brunson was there. You know, Gary Jordan came through there. Yeah. Gary Grant. So we have some get we had Antonio Wingfield at the time. We had Gary Trent was Trin on that team. Now, Trin got. No, he got. Trin got. And so, you know, so so that was that was I just had to add that. But I was really, you know, I was excited, though, being the hometown boy coming and and everything. But, you know, the one thing that I will say about that, though, Matt, that everybody that that that I had to endure and people don't understand is right. And it's like coming to that team, you had to make a lot of sacrifice. So I had to kind of tone my game down and change my game in a lot of respects, which was fine, you know, but when you don't win it, right? When you don't win it and you don't get the ultimate prize, you start to reflect on what could have been if you were to stay where you was at. And then so sometimes, you know, I would get my moments. I'm like, damn, man, I was in Toronto. We had Matt. We drafted Vince. I was like, you still have markets there, but they end up trading markets, obviously, but you still had a good team. You had a nucleus right there. So that's the only thing I think about the regret, because it wasn't the money, right? Because the money was going to be the same either place. But it was just more so like you start to have a regret because at that time, once you feel once you got a sacrifice for the numbers and do what you got to do because, you know, the individual accolades aren't going to be there. You got to make sure that you you get that ring at the end of the day and not getting that ring. That's just like the biggest, the biggest thing that that I just that I look back on with regret. Yeah, the doc really focused on, you know, four or five seasons stretch. Indeed presents. Highers, you can't afford to get wrong like payroll manager. Hi. I was just checking my pay slip and it's all in Japanese yen. Yes, you're welcome. Sorry. Given the exchange rate between the pound and the yen, you're technically a millionaire now. Don't spend it on in one place. I can't really spend it anywhere. This is a job for sponsored jobs. This is what happens when you don't sponsor your job on Indeed. So the next time you need someone to get the job done right, get matched with quality candidates with an Indeed sponsored job. Visit Indeed.com slash Next hire and sponsor your job today. Dan, you get there the year of the lockout. Bonsie, you're drafted to Detroit and get there the same season. She you had been with the team for a few years. Amen. Go ahead. The timeline I actually came. I came in I came in 98 before the lockout. OK. Miss season though. It was a miss season trade. OK. And then the lockout came. So that's when I signed my new deal. Yes. And that's when it was that when he was out fucking with us. You see a light versus Arizona. That time. Yes. So that during that lockout, that when I came down to see y'all, y'all crazy. Hell boy, I was like, man. What? Hey, I mean, hey, hey, I was like, these young boys, why? But y'all good though. Amen. Yeah. Y'all have a little boy. Yeah, I was on that team. I probably had eight rows on that thing. I think like six or seven pros off that team. Yeah. Easy. Oh, yeah. And probably one of our best players, Jerome Rush, never made it. He was he was. That's how easy go. Yeah, which was crazy. What was your thoughts with that season? Strike short season you talking about? Yeah. So you guys played the Spurs in the conference finals. You guys lose that year. But obviously you're still putting everything together, but you guys have a loaded roster. I thought we were good, but I thought that in my mind, I thought we got we got there a year. We got there a year early. So I didn't have that in my timeline. I'm not going to lie. I didn't. I thought it was going to take another year. So I thought in 2000 actually was going to be the year that we took off. But we but we got there a year early. And so in getting there a year earlier, the expectation changed. And then that's when they made the move and brought in Pilt and brought in debt and brought in Smith going into that next year. But it's just I thought I thought that we were on our way to man. We was like the nucleus of our team was like 24 25. You know, I mean, so that's all I was thinking about. Like, man, we got this window and man, we got it. You know, it's about to be on. I mean, the go to the conference finals. And I mean, like I said, I was mean, me and she fourth year. Literally, about fourth year. Like you couldn't have told me you could have told me that we wouldn't want to chip and you couldn't have told me that we wouldn't make deep, deep runs, deep playoff runs. Bondi, what are you? I mean, you're young. You're fresh in your fresh in the league. And obviously what Dame said, you know, he walks into practice and nobody's wearing no kind of practice uniform. This is just a different type of vibe and you're thrown in the fire. So what are you thinking as a kid fresh out of college? Honestly, I remember walking in the gym for the first time and realizing that I probably won't play. I realized like, man, you know, you when you come from college and you the guy and you know, from Indiana, you the guy. And I walked in that gym and I saw the first practice and I was like, man, I don't know how I'm going to get on this court. And it just let me know how really was the real culture shock for me at first. And that's kind of how I went my rookie year. But you know, just appreciate guys like Dame and she and all the other that was all and this all the vets just keeping my mind right. Just like, man, just keep working, keep working. Something will happen for you. And I remember making that run and just remember just remember how good we were and how good we were across the board, even though we had a little bit of dysfunction. Everything was happening fast, you know, the 50 game season. But guys, you know, no matter what happened during the day when seven o'clock hit guys always locked in. And that's what the most respectful part for me was that guys did a fucking job every night that, you know, they didn't miss practice. They played hard, even though we might have a back to back to back, you know, five games and six nights or seven nights. It was crazy back then, but it just made me want to work even harder to get in that rotation and just and then I knew if I got in that rotation, I was going to be pretty good because these guys are really tough. Yeah. So she the next season, 99 2000. You got the second best record in the NBA 59 and 23. You add Pip, you add Schmiddi, you add Detlef. She's looking good. You guys are heading to the playoffs. What's your thought process? That shit was looking great, especially, you know, with with having success in the playoffs ever since I first got to Portland and, you know, on that team, it was, you know, Uncle Cliff and Aaron McKee, Sir Bonis, Gary Trent, you know, it was a good squad and they were on a rise. But again, you know, they were still kind of sort of fresh off of the finals with Clyde and, you know, Terry Porter, that that whole team. So but they still had a good team. And my first year, I was like, all right, you know, we won't do something and then just learning things under Uncle Cliffy. And each year it seems for me, it seemed to get like better and better, tighter and tighter. I knew guys were coming in and out. You know, I know that's part of the business and and our our wins got more and more. And then when we ended up rolling into that whole first conference finals against the Spurs, you know, with the team that we had right there, I was like, man, this is this is a good team right here. My biggest thing was to take it. Her her series. You know, I'm saying this like. Yeah, we all think about championship when you first start to play us. But then to get to that championship, we got to be this team first. And that's where I pretty much was that, like, you know, just looking at each rival and then when we made it to that that conference championship, against San Antonio, I'm like, all right. And, you know, we're battling with them going back and forth, back and forth. And then, man, this motherfucker hits this great fucking shot. Sean Elliott hits a great shot. I'm not even going to lie. It was a great game. But he had a great shot. And, you know, of course, that's what put them ahead. And I think from there, it was like, OK, I was thinking, OK, we only got about maybe one, no more than two years to actually get this done. Before they do what all teams do, start breaking the team up. So that was my thoughts. Like, all right, we fell short that year with San Antonio. Like, all right, we got to go back out here just next year and do it. And then, damn, do it and get to another conference finals against the Lakers. And, you know, to have them on the ropes and for us to come up short, you know, I would say for me personally, when it happened, then I was mad as shit. I was angry. I was I was so fucking heated after that series. But as I look back and do all of it, you know, later in my career, I was like, man, I said, yeah, it was part of it. You know, it's the ups and downs of it. Somebody got one, somebody got lose. But I was like, damn, it would have been great if we would have came out on top of that shit, at least one of them times against them Lakers. And, you know, they were always our killies heel. You know, the Lakers and damn Spurs, that was that was the one that always put me out. I want to back up a little bit when you guys are able to get Pip, because word is he wants to go to Lakers and be with Phil, Shaq and Kobe. You guys are able to get someone with that experience, six rings and the documentary. You can kind of feel the energy and the excitement when you guys get Pip. Dane, what was your first thoughts when you guys are able to get someone like Scotty? We basically we knew who Pip was, the basketball player. We wanted to see was he going to come in and try to be one of us. So he was going to try to big times, you know? So, you know, I had I had personally never been around Pip. I had been, you know, around a lot of people, but Pip was like at that time, one of the only superstars that I just I had never been around and experienced. So I didn't know, you know, how he was going to be. And, you know, talk about it in the documentary. But from that, after that, from that point forward, man, he was one of us. And, you know, I thought that Pip was he kind of reminds me. He reminded me of that old soul. And he always gave wisdom and he always, you know, talked about the mental approach to the game. And, you know, it was funny, man, because, you know, when Pip, when Pip was when Pip wasn't hurting and a lot of people don't know, his back was probably worse than what he ever let on to be. But when he was when he when he was writing, you knew when he had pop, because you could tell from the shoot around to the man, he was really good, man. Like he like he could impact games, you know, I remember we played when we came back and played the Houston Rockets his first time back playing the man, dude, took like a charges. You remember that? They took like a charges and like the impact he had on the game. So when he came in, he was exactly for me, he was exactly who who we thought he would be, you know, as a as a leader. Because at that time, only thing we needed was season. So we just needed somebody to this this the to stir that the stir the stuff up, give us some seasoning. And we felt like we could compete. But he and he gave and he gave us that when he when he came in. Any funny off the court stories, obviously in the dock, they speak on him having a security the first couple of days and y'all made fun of him. But any any funny locker room, playing any any funny Pip stories? Y'all got to you y'all had that old band wearing braids and shit. I don't want to call him. He wasn't he wasn't that old. He was just old to y'all at the time. But so, you know, it's no it's no funny. Pips, it's no funny Pip stories. I can tell on camera. But I respect that. But what I will say is, man, I never forget it. And we played me. We played Milwaukee. And we was we was about to go. We were we were we be Milwaukee. We were going to the to the airport. And man, he was like, yo, man, Mike, stop by the liquor store. We stopped by a liquor store. Dude, I popped the little thing up on the bus star smoking cigars. Now was the first time I've ever been a part of that one. I haven't been a part of that before. I mean, Pip was just Pip was just Pip, man. Pip was Pip was cool. Pip was Pip was and I'm pretty sure it bonds and she to share that story. But I you know, I have fun. You know, Pip was Pip was old school, man. He from the south. Right. It's so like it's just so it's a lot of stuff that he did that you just didn't know because he country, you know, but but he a good country. But he was just, you know, Pip was just Pip was just one of them dudes, man. That like, honestly, you know, he gave you a lot of game. You got a lot of free game from dude, man. He was really, you know, he had been through a lot in this career. He had been through a lot off the floor. Like he shared those experiences with you, man. And, you know, that was, you know, he had to do that shit. But I thought that was real cool. And some of it might relate to, you know, what's going on on the floor. And some of it might relate to what's going on off the floor. But he was really good from that standpoint. Oh, yeah. He definitely shared a couple of Chicago Bulls stories with us and stuff like that. But I would say my funniest Pip story was we was on the plane and we were either coming home or going off to a game. And so just so happened, who had on the same seat? Pip and Greg Anthony. I'm talking about the same exact suit now, Matt. All right. Same exact suit. So, you know, I say about the first maybe half hour, 40 minutes, you know, you got your car table, they over there playing cards. So nobody never really noticed it, right? So then here it is. Both of them, they sit in Caddy Corner from each other. So both of them got their suit jacket on the back of the chair. Right. And so, you know, I'm sitting across. I'm like, whoa, I'm like, OK, OK. Y'all decided to be like twins, big brother, little brother, you know, the Arnold Schwarzenegger and the. Yeah. Right. I'm like, I don't know. And so it was like, man, would you talk about, I say, you know, you and G.A. got on the same suit. And he was like, oh, man, you already know, you know what mine is. I'm like, I don't know. I said, so pit showed me the inside of his. His joint is like Versace had his name in it. Scotty fifth in it. No, this and that. Right. I'm like, OK, OK. I'm like, gee, with what your joy said, he's like, man, I ain't got to prove nothing to y'all. And this and that better. I'm like, well, from the looks of it, from what I saw, one suit was made in Italy and one suit was made in Hot Tally. Oh, shit, you know, my record, you better check it. You know how you know how I get down. I'm like, I'm just saying, Pips, somebody got to got to knock on soon. Somebody got a ferrute piece on it. Shout out for route. He definitely, he definitely, he definitely. Greg, definitely looked like he had that ferrute, that ferrute suit on. Ever since that day, that's when we started calling Greg Lil Pit. Lil Pit. Shit. Hey, man, you said it too, man. Shout out for route, man. Where is Farooq still around? He's still there, bro. He's still there. He's still. It's not even called. It's not even called Fox Hills. No, I don't even know what it's called, but it's not called possible. Farooq is sure in that bitch still. He's still in there. It's his pot. It's his partner with him with the bet. Get him out. Get him out. Y'all stoop. No, I think. Always bottle here, always bottle here, Nick. Yuck mouth. I think Yuck mouth might have moved on, but he got a couple of his partners in there, but he's deaf. I was probably winning there last year and didn't even need nothing. But I was just like, yo, is this Farooq spy? Hey, buddy. You can come in there. He's still there, bro. I want to talk about real, real quick, because this is the time and unfortunately, the game today doesn't have it. But I know practices were motherfucking wars with the amount of talent y'all have. What were some of the first team versus the second team practices like during this time? I mean, from my point of view, from my point of view, to my point earlier, that's what I said my rookie year. If I could just make it in these practices, I can play against anybody. And it seemed like, and I know Dame machine to say the same at times. And a lot of teams might say this, that I practice and seem harder in the games because back then, if you missed a practice, if you missed a game, you were at risk for your spot. And you know how hard that was and guys took pride in their spot. And if you want that bench mob that we might have called it or wherever you want to call it, those five guys, you might be in that third unit. You had something to prove. And you want to prove that you was on that second unit, that you was better than the first and third and vice versa. And those matchups meant something. And I remember my rookie year, my matchups at the two spots were Jair Ryder and Jimmy Jackson and I knew to myself, if I can compete with these big strong, thick leg, you know, if any strong as a veteran, if I can learn their stuff and try to stop. And I'm going to be a better person. And then just on down the line, Walt Williams, Stacey, all of them. And, you know, those guys are just elite players. And I was like, man, if I could just get anything off when these guys consistently, I'm going to be better. So I look forward because the practices were my game. And a lot of times that's a lot of people's games is practice. So you take pride in it. Sheed, you couldn't get no T's in practice. What was your mindset during practice? Oh, no, in practice, we got that shit on, you know, it was. I wouldn't say it was never no regular like our first unit winning all the time. No, that's not especially depending on, you know, how back then we used to have like little situational games like oh, you're down three with 40 seconds left, you know, and you don't have a ball, get the ball back, things like that. But no, the second unit with guard our ass and then like shit. And my thing when I first got there to that next year, we drafted Jermaine. So, you know, Jermaine was a young skinny kid out of South Carolina, but he had heart and he had dog in him. And he was talented, athletic. He was going that is he was coming at me, Subonis and Brian Grant. And, you know, guys are just a young Zebo. You have young Zebo, too, right? At some point. Well, yeah, we drafted later on, but later. Okay, okay. Later on. We drafted a young slow mo later on. But no, we had Jermaine and it was just a young team and you had a lot of dogs and the practices. Hey, we walking out of there limping. Definitely everybody put some ice on hot tub in it, cold tub in it, all that stuff, man. Like ain't nobody on that team that whole time when it was real practices. Nobody just went back there and showered and bounced. You know what I'm saying? No, you back there getting treatment. Hey, hey, Matt, they're 100% right. I won't even add to it because they said everything. But I'm you know, I got I got reflective stories. So we were in training camp and it was the last day. It was the last day they had to make cuts probably at two o'clock. You know, put in the roster to a clock. So we doing we always finished practice with like a three man, three man weave type layup drill, I mean, a layup layup drill, you know, get a certain amount of layup, whatever, whatever the hell we did. Right. And so we had 15 spots, but we had like 17 guaranteed contracts. They were waving a guaranteed two guaranteed contracts. And so, man, we in the we in the we in the drills. I mean, we in the we in the everybody clapping up. Yeah, we finished your practice clapping it up. Our boy will produce on the team. Right. Will produce, man. You must you. It looked like he got shot by a sniper. Man, he came up laying. I was like, we'll ask anyone to get cut, man. He ain't sure he wasn't gonna get cut. You like because they can't cut you when you get hurt. Right. You can't cut a hurt. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that. Man, that's one of the funniest things I ever seen. And I like now to this day. Now to this day, I would love to see Will so I can just ask and be like, man, did you really hurt? Did you really hurt? Are you are you are you was trying to say that roster position and then want to be possibly one of them do because man, I've never seen none like that in my life. We had we have we had we had like we had Will. We had Joe Klein. We had we had a little Harvey and all these do the team. Yeah. All these dudes were on the team for sex. So we have that's the only reason you know what I mean? Like we had extra body and then like she said, we still had Jermaine. I ain't named Jermaine. So bonus. Like we had so many big and RPG. I ain't even name. I ain't named them. So it was just great. But yeah, that was that's that's the story I want to tell Will for do, man. That was so funny. Sniper was in the got a little bit like he made he made sure to that everybody saw and heard him. He went to the he went to the first one, right? And you know, he was kind of limping a little bit. Little build up. So he went to the back of the line, you know, he's back there running on that leg and anything. All right. Let me get this hammer cheese together. So, you know, you see him stretching it out on the side a little bit. Right. So now he next up in line. So now he's on that outside wing. I mean, that middle line where you definitely got a sprint, right? You get in the left down the other end. So he did. I think he did the shit on purpose big. You got that middle line, man. And do that first pass and start to get on that horse. And he yeah. Ah. We like this. What a sniper. And what a sniper. Oh, yeah. Down down gone. Tracia down gone. Tracia. That's funny. It's funniest thing I saw. I'm like, you know, at first I'm like, damn, like, is he really hurt? You know, I'm like, I'm concerned. But then we're in the locker room listening to that other vet. So shit. They like, oh, yeah, that's he know what he doing. That was a great new. Oh, gee. Oh, gee. Move. I want to talk about our Vita Sabonis. So when you hear you hear legendary stories about him over the water, he came to you guys a little bit later in his career, but still super talented. What was he like as a teammate and what kind of personality do he have? I say through my three quick things about Saabas. One, best passing big I've ever seen or played with. Two, I don't know. No other person walking on two feet that that could out drink him. I'm not sure if he still drinks now or not, but I know I'm talking about back then. Nobody I knew could out drink him. He said nobody on two feet. Yeah, I'm telling you. And then and then the third one. I have always heard stories about him and his younger days. And I just hated the fact that, like, man, if we could have got maybe, like, one one last good year of those, they don't like, all right, I'm a guy here. I'm still dunking and all this other shit like he was, you know, over there, overseas, back home. Then I think we would have been better. But no, overall, Saabas is a good dude, though. Sabonis a good dude, man. And, you know, he's funny as shit, too. Yes, he is. He's funny as shit. He's funnier than what he puts. So everybody think, oh, he can't speak English. He's in a locker room and you're getting reporters asking him this. And he's like, mm hmm. Reporters that leave, go somewhere else. He's like, I just didn't want to talk to that guy. That's not good. Like, that's not depending on how on the day on the plane, because me and she didn't gamble. So they had the car table. So then it'd just be like me and she. And then we'll be up in the front watching the TV. But then when it's time to stretch out, I used to go back there with Saabas was, you know, because it was more room. And so I spent a lot of time with him on the plane. And like she said, man, he was he was a funny dude. He actually was funny. I agree with number two, what she said about drinking. What the drink? He could drink, you know, but the biggest thing. But the biggest thing and but the biggest thing that I see about that I say about our beaters is, man, the stuff he was doing on one leg, I wish I could have seen it on two. Because, man, he just, you know, what he the way the way he could pass the way he could shoot, you know, you just didn't you didn't see that. You know, and it's just unfortunate that he had had the injuries that he had. I would have loved to been. Like she said, I would have loved to have been his teammate when he was right because, man, do do do do was nice. Now he would he he was not. And then and then Matt, I tell you this, every time his homeboys came to town from overseas, he got busy. He was going to he was going to he was going to give you that work that night. He won back. What made what made what made and what made him a selfless teammate is, man, he didn't he didn't have to play every game because we didn't need him. You know, like that every game. And so that was that was always good for him. But but but do was he it's unfortunate for us. We didn't see him. They see it overseas. But for us is like, what if because I mean, you know, and, you know, you can say this, but I don't know, even if he would have came in with Clyde and him, they might have got one. I mean, I'm just saying like do was nice. I think so. It was nice. Man, he was different, dog. He was he was different. He was different. You see, you see young him running up and down the court, dunking on people, block the shots, hitting jumpers, passing the ball like a point guard. He was tough. Let's go back to this 2000 playoff series game seven with the Lakers. I mean, you guys all but have it. You have a nice lead and then the fourth quarter hits. 13, 13 straight. And it was crazy because I'm in college at UCLA this time in my dorm room with my homeboy Ray, who's here right now. And we're watching this game kind of going crazy. I'm a Laker fan at heart from a youngster. But again, I was fucked with you guys just because of the mantra. I didn't know it, but it seemed cool to me. I was at UCLA smoking weed on the Rick trail by myself. So I just felt like I was I felt like you guys would have fucked with me. If you would have known me, I kind of felt like it. So I had like a I had a little special place in my heart for you guys. But walk us through obviously being down, fighting back and getting to that game seven and then just what happened in that fourth quarter. Be Scott hits off the backboard three hits another three later. And then you guys just can't get the ball in the basket. So I thought I don't mean I'll let them go. But I want to just say two things that were stand out to me in that run. Other than the fact that we couldn't make a shot, we could. We just couldn't stop the momentum. But there was another three that was right in front of our bench. And I can't remember if it was B Shaw or Rick Fox, maybe. Maybe it was one of those two. Man, the ball hit the cushion and went in like it was off the side. That's right. Like it wasn't like like like it was like it was going to hit the side of the backboard, but then all of a sudden it's like the sixth man came out, moved the move the ball over and it went in. I remember that vividly. And then the last thing is after Shack, after Kobe through the live, the Shack. And I'm not I'm not from LA, so I haven't watched the Laker game as a fan. So I have no clue. But I will want to know from Laker fans because for me as an opponent, I don't think I don't think that it was Staples then. I don't think Staples has gotten as loud as it was at that moment. I thought it was. I thought it was an earthquake. Man, it was so loud up in there and everything was shaking. Damn. You know, for me, the craziest part of that at the end of the third quarter, the guy that hits the shot is Brian Shaw, who we just cut. Or I think we just he just left us like either the year before or whatever. And he hit the big banker three to kind of cut it. I think it was 13. Mm hmm. And man, just sitting on the bench because I didn't really play as much in the fourth, but just sitting there watching. Usually, you know how the clock goes. It goes fast as hell. It was going so slow. And you just watching it and you watching it and everybody just missing all the shots that we had hit for the last three and a half games. We hit all these shots and they just started. And I was like, man, it's just not our it's just fate or something. And just and let me I'm from Indiana and I'm just sitting back in my mind thinking about, damn, I'm going to throw a hell of a party, finals party at home when we play the Pacers for the finals. I'm my mind is all over the place. I'm like, man, we going home. We're going to beat the shit out of the Pacers. Like we we kill them because we feel like we got them. I'm looking at the crowd. They they all got that look. I'm looking at the body language of the players. They all defeated. And then you just see like a perp this come like they go from this and just inflated like this type of shit. And it was just the craziest moment. And just that that plain ride home. I remember how somber it was. Just like, man, this just man, like everybody kind of felt it was kind of over a little bit in a sense. You know, and I know Danny spoke earlier about we can probably we had a window, but just after that game, it was like so deflated. She said you put the blame on yourself. Tell me why. Oh, yeah. Because out of them 13 shots, I mean, it's like six or seven of them. And they they was they was dummies to right there in front. Boom, yo, John shot. Boom, John put right there. I missed all that shit. So I put a majority of it on on myself. And I also I think for me, in my opinion, where all that shit started going downhill was when Bonnie, Bonnie, homie called the timeout after we was telling them not to call the timeout. Who's by the floor? He's he's trying to he's trying to call the timeout. We trying to distract the rest like, no, no, no, this and that. Tell them so Bonnie, homie, Mike Dumbly. Senior, senior. I mean, you know, Junior's my guy, Junior's my guy. But so. But we're telling you we hear him one to call the timeout before it was called. So we're like, no, no, no, we got him on the road. We up 16. We got him on the road. God, though, they're on the verse like this. They looking in the stands this and that. And we looking at this on film, right? So we like, no, no, we got him. We got him. So what I didn't realize at that moment when the referee when Dunley called timeout and the ref gave it to us. All right, we're upset. We're hot. But I what I written didn't realize at that moment I really had to think about it. Probably didn't come to me for maybe about a year or so later. We didn't win that because it was the basketball gods. And in my opinion, I say that because, you know, Dunley used to be the coach with the Lakers and they won to the finals. And I think they lost with magic, right? It was I think one of them years he was. No, I think I think I think you're thinking about Westhead, right? No, no, they beat the they beat the. So I know she because I was graduating from high school. Yeah, you know, it was the it was the it was it was it was a walk in dictionaries. The Blazers had the best record in the NBA, I think. And they were they were that was the year they was supposed to go to the finals. And, you know, they had just got through. Detroit had lost to Chicago. So it ended up being what MJ first title to enjoy the let. Oh, yeah. So it would have been so it would have been. It was supposed to be Portland against it was supposed to be Portland against Chicago, Chicago. But what happens is magic interrupted that and they beat the Blazers and six games and Dunley, he was the coach Dunley coach. So and that right there, in my opinion, with the basketball gods, he wanted to prove since the Lakers fired him, he wanted to prove to them like, oh, yeah, I'm a good coach. I got y'all now wanted to sit back and gloat about it. Like, tell me, tell me who in their right mind, if you're up 16 with the ball, who's calling the time out? I don't give a fuck with my leg broke. No, don't call time out. Yo, I'll hop up and down this muffler and court because for for me, the way I felt, man, it took us so long. It took us so long against these Lakers to get to this point where we got them on a brink. Like, yo, like we could actually, you know, put this team away because on that West Coast, they was the only team them and San Antonio with the only teams given us problems. So I'm like, oh, we got him. We got like, mm, call the time out. I come out, Brick. I come out another brick. Brick. But the. Smith, uh, Smitty, Smitty, did he put a shot up post move? Brick. He did his move. Brick. They miss some. Fondue miss some. Damn, uh, a subbonus miss. I'm like, it was like, yeah, 13 and then looking at that game later that night when I got home, I'm like, I'm like, damn. I'm like, it wasn't in our favor to win that game. I don't know why. I mean, people might say I'm crazy because we were up 16, but it wasn't in our favor. You look at it. We lost by 13 unlucky number. I mean, excuse me, we missed 13 straight shots. Unlucky number. So I'm like, and then they were point blank. I could see if, you know, all the all the shots we put up was threes. Like, like in today's game, you know, you could go over 13 with threes. But, yo, we talking about layups, B. We talking about layups. We talking about elbow jump shots, turn around like and like Damon said, the shots we normally would make. And that's that that whole joint is always fuck me up with them. But, you know, A, you look back on those memories now. I know for me and I always think of it like, A, it's a good game. We played in a good series. So, you know, I just, I just take it for what it is that I don't get upset over it no more. I used to, but I don't know. The summer, the postseason, and I think obviously this happened to you guys, but I think it happens often where management thinks that certain guys because maybe for whatever reason, their numbers aren't explosive on the court, but their glue guys, their chemistry guys, their locker room guys, they start making moves to try to obviously up the roster. So you guys fall into that same situation. You trade BG Bryant Grant for Sean Kemp, which was didn't go very well. You trade a young Germain O'Neill for Dale Davis. You got over here giggling. What I mean, when that stuff kind of starts happening and you spoke on the documentary about it, what's just the thought process? Because I think, you said at the very beginning, you have a quick window. Some people think you have a four or five year window, but when you have that special team and there's sometimes management will gain to my point, will trade some of these guys that they think are expendable, but actually they're integral parts to some part of what makes the whole machine go. Yeah, that's I think that's how that's how I was with us. You know, we had a great group of guys where they fan favorites. No, you know, we all weren't fan favorites. I think to be honest, during that whole time, the biggest, the biggest names or the guys had the most accolades on the team was Pip, Subbonus and Damon. So, you know, it wasn't like if you take Pip out of the picture, shit, we didn't have no perennial all stars. You know, we didn't we didn't have that that always seen them on TV. Face tight dudes. No, we was just just getting it grinding from the gutter. So with us in and that was our whole team philosophy. We know we weren't the favorites. You know, we weren't on media darlings or whatever. We come from a small town where the media in our town felt like it was. It was it was bigger stories if they were negative opposing to positive because I mean, like Damon said, shit, he just mentioned something that I didn't even know after 30 years. I didn't even know he had something to do with with the health care center being built there back then. I didn't even know that myself. So but again, you don't that's not it's positive energy for our community. But for the country, they don't want to hear that. They want to hear more than negative stuff, the juices. But I think, you know, I commend my guys, my brethren. I think overall we handled it pretty well. Yeah, it can be irking, but I think overall we have all that shit pretty well. The the the one thing the one thing meant that for me. That they didn't take into account when I say they manage, mentioned no Bob and this like. You know what, I think that, you know, he would probably even admit this because one thing about it, not I even said it in the document. For me, Bob Whitsitt was fair. I like Bob Whitsitt. Like I felt like people didn't understand Bob. I felt like Bob was was good at what he did and he was fair. And if he had an issue with you here, he would come to you. So the realness for me was always that I love them. But the only thing that I never understood. Is when he traded Jermaine and when we traded Brian. And and I'm going to tell you, nobody talks about this, but I think that the biggest thing in the trade, it wasn't actually the players itself, even though we know we knew that Jermaine, you know, you shouldn't have traded him because that's like that's like, you know, we we burped him, you know, he crawled with us, you know, and then he's going to walk and run with somebody else. Like you can't do that. But the biggest thing about that trade was that the play on our team, you had to fit a role. And so now we had to we had to get two new dudes into different roles that they weren't accustomed to. And I'm like, man, y'all not getting them shots. Like they'll they'll they'll pay him off all star season. You're not starting. Like you're not starting here. And so I think that that was the thing that took into consideration. The one thing the one thing through the whole time in Portland, that I thought nobody understood, they used to be like, best team money could buy and all that. No, we were the first team where you had five, six, seven guys making at least ten million dollars a year, which was unheard of at that time. But it was the chemistry that we had off the floor. And so to me, the next year we still got away with it. But then it started to hurt us when we when we when we got to and we ain't got to talk about it right now, the match you might even mention. We got we played a game against the Vancouver Grizzlies and I'll never forget it. It's like I remember like it was yesterday. We were 41 and eight, 41 and nine. We were rolling. So Dale and Sean, they had finally fell into their role. And then we bring that shrimp back. I'm going to say again, we bring that shrimp back. That look that look have retired. We brought debt back. That came back practice for two days and was damning the first sub off the bench. It threw our team off. And then and then what happens is and what I would say is that before I even go any further, it ain't even a knock on debt. I'm not even blaming debt. This don't happen to a debt. So then what happens is we get right stricken. Right. Got bought out by by the Wizards. And again, this ain't right, but like we had our record was our record. And I always remember right. It's funny because right. I was mad. I didn't know I was walking into this. That's what right. That's what right. And so then what happened is is right came right came to the team. And then next thing you know, J.A. Like man, I'm going back to New York. We didn't see Greg no more. And so those were those were the things with the chemistry that I think this just for me and I'm saying that about debt. And I'm saying that about Rod, not in a bad way because it wasn't those guys. It was more so management. I just I didn't understand those moves because at that time we were man, we were we we had we were on pace again. We were going right back and then even to the documentary they had lewd to we lost 15 out of 17 games. Now think about this, Matt, think about this. We lost 15 out of 17 games and still won 50 plus games. That's crazy. Think about that. We was 41 and nine. So I thought that that's that to me was was it was the chemistry piece with that group. Um, after we lost in 2000, we never we never got that. We never got the synergy back. No, I mean, you see it though. You see the one championship that Milwaukee got and they go and trade role players away. They were integral to the team. You see the championship that the nuggets got and then they go trade role players and again, it's you see maybe a name or guys with accolades that you're able to get in management wants to jump on that instead of understanding what you're speaking to right now. Name is the chemistry within that locker room and how important that is. And everyone falling into their role. I want to take it off the court real quick and talk about, um, your guys's neighborhood, Lake, no Negro. What do you guys remember about that? I mean, you guys, this is, and I thought that was dope. I never seen how beautiful that was when they're showing the lakes and all the houses on the lake and you guys are all young with a little bit of money in your pocket and you all all eventually get to the same neighborhood, but this is where that racial undertone starts to really start to show his face in, in, in my point of view from watching the documentary. What do you remember about that neighborhood? And then, Dame, I want you to talk about how they made up a fake story and broken to your crib. Go ahead, Bob. No, no, no. For me, you know, when I first got there, you know how it is when you first get to a team, they kind of point you in the direction of what neighborhood you probably should, you know, live in and they pointed me to Lake Oswego and I was like, oh, okay, cool. You know, I'm fresh out of college. I never have my own home. I'm just excited. I don't know where the hell I'm at. And as soon as I move in, I tell Dame and all these guys, I'm living in a neighborhood where they're like, hey, you know, they all get that look like, hey, you know what they call this place, man? They call it, you know, like no Negroes. And I'm like, it rhymes. It sounds good, but you know, I'm from Indiana, so I'm kind of used to kind of like, okay, you know, you kind of tread that way anyway. And I'm talking about when I started seeing how the stuff was shaking, I was like, oh, Lord, you can't do nothing around here. I mean, and if you have a nice car, you know, back then, you know, we were driving Mercedes and she had this big crazy looking Hummer Dame. I mean, these people just had nice shit and you would get pulled over so much. It just didn't even seem real. And it was just like to the point where you'd be like, man, I don't even want to go nowhere. And that's kind of my introduction to Lake Oswego. My first week there, I think I got pulled over twice at least. That's crazy. Yeah, I was lucky. I was lucky. I lived right outside of Lake Nonigro. Dave, what'd you say? No, you know, the thing about it, you know, you know, you're not the thing about it, you know, the thing about it for me is again, me being from Portland, right? So I never used to go to Lake Oswego at all. I didn't have no, I just didn't have no reason to, you know what I mean? You know, but obviously growing up, you like, man, you get some money like this where you supposed to go, right? I mean, you know, it's different now. You know, it wasn't no such thing as gentrification back then. They didn't have gentrification back then. So, you know, my thing was, you know, I made him, you know, go give me a crib out here and I guess, man, the thing that bothers me, go back to the whole jail blazer piece, man, and just everything. And I just was like, man, like, damn, like, you know, we ain't nothing's going on, man. Like I got stopped three times in one day. That's crazy. Like it was really weird. I got stopped and I never forget that day because the last time I got stopped, I was just like, man, what I do now? I said, I know you already ran my tags. I said, I know, you know, whose car it is. I know, I know, I know on this past, they probably said, we un-pulled them over before. Like I don't even know what's up, man. Like this is just, it just started to get irritating. And so for me, man, it's kind of, you know, it was kind of crazy, but I was still out there because the thing about it is I actually knew people that lived out there. So it wasn't, I'm not, I'm not exempt. And I always tell people, because people talk about poring. I'm like, man, this ain't no black, white thing. I'm not prejudice. I got many white friends. I do black friends. So there's no having to do with that. And that's what I tell people all the time. But then my alarm started going off all the time. And we were actually in Milwaukee, the same Milwaukee, the same story I told earlier about stopping at the liquor store on the way back as we were going to go get on a plane. We come back and I was just like, man, something's just not right. I remember it because it was, it was, it was Sunday, but I waited till Monday. And I, and there was only two people that had keys to my place. And I was like, they don't even do stuff like this. Like, you know what I mean? And I'm like, anybody that know me, no, I'm a creature habit, man. Like I know where everything is, you know, and, and I'm looking, I'm like, man, something don't seem right. And so then my package was missing. And so I was like, wait a minute, man. What, like, what's going, like what's going on? Okay. Maybe somebody moved it, but that, that, that, that would have been out of character too. So, so then, and this is crazy because again, I never, I never, I, I never even told this story, not the tea leaves of the story. So on Monday, so it's my Sunday, get back late Saturday, Sunday, Monday. Um, my auntie calls me and she says, you know, I'm down here. I'm down here at the athletic club and there's a couple of judges down here. And they talking about something, some, some type of paperwork on came by, came across the desk and, you know, da da, da da. I was like, what? You know, and so then I was like, okay, now I registered, right? So she was like, it's all good. She was like, my auntie, she quick on her feet. And so she was like, don't worry. I already, you know, I already got that. When you hang up with me, call this number, da da da da, call my little, who will end up being my lawyer, Stephen house. And so I talk to him, I get off the phone with him and I promise y'all. 10 to 15 minutes later, I get a night in my door. And it was a police. And so now they're asking me a bunch of questions. Now they're trying to incriminate me. They're trying to get me to incriminate myself. Excuse me. So I'm like, in my head, I'm like, my lawyer already told me everything. I said, man, illegal search and seizure, these boys is hustling backwards. Now they're trying to give me to tell on myself. I was like, what is, like, who, like, who y'all think I am? So I was like, man, I got to talk to my lawyer. So then that's when all the, all the stuff started happening. And it was just like, man, I was just done with it then. I was, I was done, man. I was just so over it. I felt violated. You know, you talking about where, where, where you talking about the alarm going off? Well, it could have been somebody up in this little, in the place where I'm like, who was going to be up in that spot? A five month old baby? Like, who's going to be in that spot? Like that, that spot was, it was, come on, man. And so, and so like, man, truthfully, when that happened. And then I had to go and do all the old stuff. And then they got me, got me in, you know, black ink and, you know, felony charges and dah-dah-dah-dah. You know, it was just, man, I was just like, you know what, man? I never even went back to that house. Most people don't know this. I literally just bought another house and never went back. I didn't go back to move nothing. You just left everything. I left it, man. And I have my people going, get it. I ain't want, I ain't want to go back there no more. I was mad. Like I was just, I just felt so violated. I mean, I became paranoid. And in a lot of ways, it's made me still paranoid. Like, you know, it's just like, man, when I was like, I'm like, man, like, that just, because that just threw me off. Because I was like, man, it's that easy. Because I felt like I was getting set up. And I was like, man, it's easy to set people up. You know what I mean? And I just, it just, and so, and so anyway, I ended up getting off, man. But it was just like, man, I was just done. I was like, man, this is crazy, man. Like, so that's my experience, you know, with, with, with, with, with Ben and Lake Oswego, and it's just crazy. Cause again, man, like my neighbors was cool. Like actually Elston Turner, who we all know. His son, his son, his homie live next door. So Elston used to always come in Louise and I would always, and so, you know, it's just, I just hate for me. Yeah. For me, for me, Ben, that I'm from Portland, I was just hurt a lot because I never, I never wanted to believe that my city was like this at time. That's, that's, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what hurt me because you come behind it, right? You come behind it. And it doesn't matter. You still going to have young black males coming to the team. You're still going to have different people coming to the team. And Portland is a place where you tend to struggle. Like, man, I can't even tell you when I would come back to town. I remember when she got traded, she was over at, at, at, at, at a, at a, what, club fitness or whatever it was called. I don't know what it was called, costume at that time. She worked out. Like I was the bond to the city. Aaron McKee used to drive in his bands all day and didn't do nothing. This is, this is right hand to the man. Randolph children's played in Portland. He drove in his bands all day. Dudes didn't know what to do. And so that's, and so when I'm trying to protect the city, it's like, this is what's happening in return. I'm like, man, this, it didn't sit right. Some of that stuff that I did, I brought on myself, but what I'm saying is at the end of the day, when you don't have a lot coming from the city, Hey man, I'm one of your own facts. Protect, appreciate. And I'll tell you that's too big. That second hockey move into that shit was slide in that first grid. Wait. I had to make you feel better. Man, that's my, my, I ain't gonna host. So I got to, so Bonzi, when you're on the bus driving home from Seattle and you see the yellow Hummer on the side of the road, what's your first thoughts? You know, it's crazy. I wasn't even on the bus. I was actually in the yellow Hummer. Oh, you weren't you? So the story Dame told, like, you know, they let us drive home. So we was all, so it was me, she, Damon, Pip, Pip's brother. He drove up as well. So we stopped at the VP to kind of get whatever was going to ride back with whatever we needed. I was in the back of the Hummer. You know, the Hummers are kind of small back there. Yeah, too tight. I was like, man, so then Pip pulled up and I was like, man, I'm just going to jump in this suburban with Pip. Them man, we go in the same place. It ain't no problem. So she then was like, man, we got our shit. We go on. I'm like, all right, cool. I'm gonna just lay back here and back in the Hummer. I got everything I need. I'm good. So they left five minutes before us. So as we're driving, we saw the police and all we all like, Hey, be cool. You know, everybody, as you get to getting closer. Is that the yellow Hummer? I'm like, and when I saw him, I was like, Oh my goodness. And, you know, a part of me was like, fuck, I hate it for my brothers. And a part of me was like, damn, I survived it. You know what I mean? A little bit, cause I was supposed to be with him, but I was fucked up for them because I knew the domino effect, but I was literally supposed to be in the car with him that night. Yeah. That was a while. It was a while for me because when, um, when the bull pulled the over, right? So all it was, um, you know, we had smoked the J and that's all it was literally. Right. So of course the smell lingered a little bit. So when he pulled this over, you know, he had a standing out on the side of the road. I was like, fuck. And so, you know, cars zooming by, right? And then I just so happened to look to the left. I was like, I hit, I tell you, I said, damn, I said, that's the bus right there. But the, but the team was riding, riding back on the bus from Seattle to Portland. And the bus robot was like, fuck. And then all you seen was motherfucking noses on a glass. Like, right? So the bus had pulled over the team security had got out, talked to the uh, the rookie cop tried to play big Willie. And so sent the bus on and we was, we was out there, dog. We was out there. But I mean, me personally, I wasn't scared. I wasn't nervous as far as what they were saying we did. Right. As far as, oh, yeah, we had this, we had that all this week. No, I think that shit was a joint. That shit was a joint. I smoked me a joint. He smoked the joint and that was it. You know what I'm saying? We, it wasn't like we had like a half of dip in our bag or something like that. So he's like, oh, I'll call it, call it dogs, call it dog. He's like, man, you can call it dog. You call the whole canine unit if you want, right? That's what we're telling you. We ain't got nothing. It ain't nothing here. So he wants to call his superiors and a couple of other cars come out. So I'm like, ah, man, we are here to side of the road. And so long story short, the superiors talk to him, boom, end up letting us go. So we riding home and Dame like, man, you think this going to be on a ESPN or whatever, I'm like, man, I'm like, for what? I said, it's a simple traffic stop. I said, we ain't getting no, no ticket for no type of marijuana, paraphernalia, marijuana period. We got a speeding ticket. Right. So then I'm asleep, go home, sleep and wake up that next morning. At the time I was married, wife beat me up. I'm like, what's wrong? What's wrong? She's like, what's y'all do last night? I'm like, what are you talking about? We came home from the game. They dropped me off. What do you mean? She turned the TV on and then we got a little joint. I'm like, ah, man, it's some bullshit. And they saying the first thing they saying is marijuana, this and that. Man, I swear, dude, dude, probably if you take a smallest piece of toast and you crumble the little edge of it up, that's how much might have been on the floor or some shit. It was crazy, man. That was wild. It was wild. It was crazy. And what made it crazy is that, you know, he's just, I just, man, I'm telling you, I used to just sit there and I used to be like, man, this is, you can't make this stuff up. Man, dude was on the dispatch. And man, that's Damon Stoutermire, where she was. That poor little trip. They ain't even talking about who was driving. It didn't even matter. It didn't work. Neither one of us was driving now. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so it was just everything, everything that was just going and then when I woke up in the next morning, after what she said, I woke up in the next morning and I was like, damn, man. So I was like, man, I just went over, she's crib. I went over that. I went over to his crib. She his ex was cussing me out like I was him. See, told y'all. Then we had to go to a press conference. We had to go to a press conference later that later that day. And, uh, and then like it was, it was the craziest thing because it was like, I don't know, they was probably tired of me, I guess. But man, I got put on punishment, man. They just took me out the lineup and set me on the bench, man. You just so really do. Oh, yeah. Damn, I said, I got like 13, 14 straight DMPs. Really? I didn't know that. Straight up dirty. And the crazy thing that was what was the craziest thing, man. It was just like, it was just like, bro. It's over. You know, man, that was my point on why I wanted to do this doc, man, because I'm like, man, this was just unbelievable. Some of the reports and how the shit really was. And I'm glad to see even hear these dudes talk, man, to be able to tell their side. I know it's therapeutic for them because they lived it. You know, I kind of got unscathed through the whole situation, but these two took, man, they took some fucking bullets, man. It took a whole lot of bullets. I want to talk about, obviously, Sheet and the doc, you went to a point where you weren't talking to the media, then they find you, then they find the team. And then you kind of had your, your, your commercial response. Bonzi, you said something about not caring if the fans, whoop, whoop, whoop. Like, when did you guys kind of feel, and early you said it wasn't the organization, you felt it was more the media slash fans. When did you feel that energy shift from, damn, this is one of the greatest teams we've ever had to, man, fuck these dudes. They're not role models. They're not this, they're not that. When he's losing. Yeah. I mean, real talk, that was it because it wasn't one. But none of these problems in effect when we was winning, as you know, Damon stated our record earlier, you know, and we had always had good records. We made the playoffs every year. We always was at least 25 to 30 games over 500. Hey, we always had good teams, but it was, I don't, I just, I know that's how, that's how I know it wasn't the organization. The organization felt the pressure from the fans and the media. And then that's when they had to do the things that they did. But no, that's where it was coming from. In my opinion, it was the fans in the media. You know, we was losing when we was winning. Oh, everything was good. You know, you still had the fans griping here and there. But, you know, we losing a couple of games, lose three out of four, you know, or lose four out of seven or something like that. Oh, now, oh, what's wrong? This person needs to go. That person needs the less minutes. Why is this person taking all the shots? You know, all that, all that negative shit go when we're losing. So I think if we would have been winning a majority of those games, as Damian mentioned earlier, I probably would have been a different outcome with the way that things are set up because no matter what, I mean, a we still had one of the toughest home records. And we were a pretty good admirable routine. But you said something that stuck with me and you said something to the effect of an article that kind of stuck with you your whole career, a sport illustrated article that kind of stuck with you, your whole career. Explain that. You know, it's funny because, you know, during that time, everybody was looking for a line or something to make a go associated press. They was, you know, all the reporters was coming around. They trying to interview people and just trying to just find something so they can go viral before viral was even a thing. So we was blessed enough to have sports information directors that always kind of gave us the heads up on who the type of reporters are going to come around. So he was like, go, sports illustrators coming to do an article on you guys. And at that time, 100 percent of the articles was like she said earlier. It might start up with 1 percent positive that this guy played great, but they're going to pull it into the negative part of it to finish it, to kind of keep you, you know, keep the foot on your neck. And we kind of knew this sports illustrator guy was coming around to do just that. So I'm young and, you know, he does interview me. And I'm just I'm just talking because this is before it was my turn to kind of be the bad guy. I was still a loveable Bonzi. So, you know, I was still a loveable Bonzi or whatever. So and it was bad. It was going bad. It was after all the stuff was going on. And I remember we walked off the court and this is exactly what happened. I never told this story because we didn't have social media. And I didn't really think I had to say it. But I remember the quote. And if this guy can show me this quote that I said, I hated the fans of the be I will pay him real money. But he asked me when we were walking off the court, we were getting booed. And he asked me how did I feel about the fans booing us? And I said, I hate it. I hate getting booed. Everybody does. But I said, if we play well, they'll love us again. That was my quote. He wrote something totally like Bonzi said he hate the fans and some some. And when I read that quote, I just said to myself, oh, man, the Portland fans love me. They won't believe that dumb ass shit. And the next game, they booed me so bad, it broke my heart so bad because I couldn't believe that I was getting booed the way I played. It's hard. You know, the type of dude I am in real life. It hurt me because they believed it. They let somebody on the outside come in and tell them about their family member. And that's what hurt me the most about that article, because this guy came in from nothing in the world just to write a bad article about us. And they took that line and they just heart hated me. And it hurt me so bad because they if anybody know anything about me, I leave a love. I'm not on that. And that's what turned me and it just made me bitter. And if you look at my timeline, my technical files went up. I just wasn't the smiling Bonzi that I was because I felt like my family turned their back on me. And I'm not saying it was all of them, but just it just hurt to be booed every time you touched the ball, every time an article come up, they saying bad stuff about you. Every time you call home, your parents are questioning you about stuff they're reading in the paper from way in Indiana about how their child family member is acting way in Portland. So it was a tough time for me because that's just what it was. They just want to keep their foot on our neck and keep us down. And was nothing was good coming out of our camp about us as individuals. But I was booing you too. To that. That article came from that. That was the same time when I had the tree ornament drive and the coat drive out there in front of the Rose Garden. And so we were all out there early. We made it out there early myself, Bonzi, Damon, Pitt, Brian, Grant, subordinates that came out, you know, guys came to support. And so we're out there early before the kids get out there. So once the kids starting to come, I think like they teachers or whatever, just had them lined up in different sections. So, you know, until they're ready, we're still all over here just clowning around and and just having fun today ready. So they taking pictures of that. And then in that article, it also stated some things like, oh, we didn't care about the kids, the kids over there waiting for us. And here we are over there joking and clowning. And they had picture of me on the phone. That's back when the first little earbud. Do you remember when the phone came with that Ben 600? The little black phone that was like about that big. And I had a little earpiece in there. So I was on the phone and they like, oh, not even paying attention to the kids. It's disrespectful and blah, blah, blah. And from that day on, that's when I never fuck with sports illustrated again. Oh, to this day. And either. Well, fellas, man, I appreciate your guys time. I know we could talk another hour about this, but thank you guys for your time. Everyone, make sure you check out the untold jail blazers on Netflix drops April 14th. Man, I appreciate you guys. It's time to take fellas. All right, man. Hey, man. Yeah, I'm done.