US blockade of Iran ports 'irresponsible and dangerous', China says

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Hello and welcome to News Hour Live from the BBC World Service in London. I'm Rebecca Kezby. Today the International Monetary Fund has warned that if the conflict in the Middle East continues there could be another global recession. Delivering its World Economic Outlook report the IMF suggested that in the worst case scenario where oil and gas prices stay high, pushing up food prices and unemployment rates, global growth could fall below 2% for this year and inflation could rise as much as 6% next year. Chief Economist for the IMF Pierre-Oliver Gourhanche told the BBC that central banks need to be cautious when making interest rate decisions given those lower projected growth rates and possible higher rates of inflation. In both of these scenarios we look at what happened if energy prices become even more elevated, a longer disruption, more disruption of facilities, more disruption of the flow of energy through the straight-up hormones. And then if we have that then we're gonna have other things as well. What are we gonna have? We're gonna have a lot more inflation and then people are gonna look at this inflation they're gonna think this is not going away. So we'll see inflation expectations start going up and then we'll also have financial markets looking at this and say this is not good. Well our economics editor Faisal Islam is at the IMF meeting and managed to grab a moment with the US Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent on the fringes and Faisal asked him about those gloomy projections from the IMF if the war in Iran continues. Mr Bessent said that he was less concerned about short-term forecasts than long-term security. Well earlier in the day China criticised the US counterblockade of the straight-up hormones describing it as dangerous and irresponsible. Washington argues the move will put pressure on the Iranian regime to halt its enriched uranium program but the Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Guo Jai-kun said it would only exacerbate tensions and undermine the already fragile ceasefire agreement. China believes that only by achieving a comprehensive ceasefire and end of hostilities can conditions be fundamentally created to ease the situation in the straight. We urge all parties to abide by the ceasefire agreement focus on the overall direction of dialogue and negotiations take concrete actions to promote de-escalation and restore normal navigation in the straight as soon as possible. China is the biggest customer for Iranian oil so how much revenue could Iran lose out on as a result of the US blockade? It's a question news hour zone Bennett Jones put to Mohammed Aslami a researcher at the University of Tehran. I'm not sure if this is the case because you know that the main export main customer of the Iranian oil is China and China right now the Foreign Ministry declared that we do have a bilateral relations with the Iranian government and ask the US not to make problem for the cargos that going from Iran to China so I'm not sure if the Americans want to attack the VLCC and super tankers from Iran to China. I see so you're not sure how much the blockade will actually block but at the same time you are going to lose the revenue from the ships that have been going through I mean people talk as I said about two million dollars one two million dollars a ship. The revenues out of the straight up hormones it is not something that Iranians want it right now they are thinking about the in your framework after the war ends right now it is this for and everything is a matter of the future. Well as I say about 80% of Iranian oil is usually bought by China so how is this conflict the blockade the counter blockade already affecting China and is Beijing worried about how long this conflict could last. That's a question I put earlier to David Wu who's a markets analyst and former Wall Street economist. I think it's worried and it's worried mainly because not for the reason you set out but rather because this is the first 21st century proxy war between the United States and China. I think there's no doubt I think both the US this war is no longer about Iran's nuclear program it's about who's going to control the straight up hormones and I think you know it's very clear it's either going to be remaining under the control of Iran or it's going to revert to basically US control. China is very worried that the US should gain control over the straight up hormones because 50% Chinese oil imports come through the straight up hormones so US could easily choke off the Chinese economy should it gain control of the straight up hormones. Likewise for the US if Iran ends up controlling the straight up hormones this was certainly you know basically make power most likely will basically accelerate the replacement of the US by China as the security guarantor in the Middle East which is obviously not acceptable to the US either. So basically this is why this is becoming increasingly a US-China conflict there's no doubt about that and I think in fact the blockade that you hear about you know in the last 48 hours that's definitely directed at China because as you know like until now Iran has no problem shipping oil to China over the last six weeks in fact China is the only country in Asia that has been able to get its oil supply uninterrupted so from that point of view this blockade really is designed to hurt the Chinese by the Americans so there's no doubt you know this is what's going on. It is quite interesting it's not entirely clear actually what if any ships are getting through the straight up hormones just today the US is saying that no ships have gone past they say six vessels turned around when challenged by the US forces there but the BBC did earlier get data that maybe four ships linked to Iran had got through. Is there a chance that any of those could have been on their way to China? I think so but I think the important thing is that what it says is that this blockade is not that serious you know and then Trump likes to obviously you know talk it up as though this is going to bring Iran to a heel but it's not that serious because you know why you can see what's happening in the oil market today. Oil prices down today. After basically having come down already yesterday so believe me if there's no oil tankers getting through the straight up hormones at all oil price today will be $130 a barrel easily and now we're trading in 95 Brents. So I think from that point of view the US is talking very tough but clearly they haven't even so much as enforced this blockade that they have promised is going to force Iran to change its mind. As we know it's a bit unclear at the moment whether they have enforced it or not but in terms of oil reserves how well placed is China to be able to weather this storm if it is a short one and also second sort of question it's not just oil is it there's other critical petrochemicals coming through they're not least helium really important for China because of its critical impact on the manufacturing of chips also fertilize I mean China could be affected by all those things. Oh yeah but so other countries I mean you look at China for example right 50% of Chinese oil imports comes through the straight up hormones you know what that number is for Japan is 85% you know what that number is for South Korea 75% so from that point of view China relative to you know Japan South Korea and Taiwan it's actually less dependent on oil essentially coming from coming through the straight up hormones that's number one number two China actually everybody knows this I mean which is that China has been massively you know stockpiling oil also well 2024 and 2025 they literally probably increased their oil strategic reserve by 30% over the last two years and so from that point of view they probably have more of a cushioning anybody else and thirdly you know 50% of cars sold in China now are electric so that's the highest in the world I think outside Norway so from that point of view again I think you know ironically China actually probably is in a stronger position than other countries in the region certainly in terms of weathering high oil prices for a while this is also the reason why I don't believe China is going to put a plug on Iran. That's markets analyst David Wu speaking to us earlier. Now a BBC investigation has uncovered evidence of life-threatening malpractice on the pediatric ward of a Pakistani hospital previously linked to an HIV outbreak undercover filming caught staff reusing blood contaminated syringes placing children at risk from infection with HIV or other blood-borne diseases. Garzol Abasi has this report. In 2024 eight-year-old Mohammad Amin was treated at THQ Hospital in Donsa central Pakistan for a fever. Doctors gave him injections and sent him home instead of recovering he grew worse. Mohammad Amin's mom Sugra describes what happened next. My son started feeling pain he developed a very high fever. Eventually Mohammad Amin was referred to another hospital in the neighboring city of Multan where he was tested. They said according to his report your child has HIV the infection has attacked. He began treatment but it came too late. His eyes closed up then at 5 p.m. he passed away. But the family's trauma didn't end there. What's your name? Asmavivi. Shortly after Mohammad Amin's death his older sister Asmav developed flu symptoms. She received treatment at THQ Hospital. Two months later she too fell seriously ill. I had her tested the Donsa hospital staff said your daughter has HIV. Asmav was not alone. Over the winter of 2024 and 2025 a local clinician called Dr. Gul found that dozens of children had contracted HIV. I had the repose for 65 to 70 children that I had diagnosed. The THQ hospital in Donsa was the common factor between them. Almost all the children had gone there for treatment. Following doctors raising the alarm and protests from parents the government intervened. The hospital medical superintendent was dismissed and the authorities reassured parents that the wards were now safe. But months after the crackdown that I heard from a whistleblower from inside the hospital in Donsa he told the BBC that nothing had changed. I felt concrete action should be taken. It's my duty to save my people. Believing children's lives were at stake he went undercover. The footage recorded over three months shows nurses injecting children through their clothes, passing over dirty syringes for reuse and unqualified volunteers injecting child after child from a contaminated vial of medicine. In March 2025 during the government intervention Dr. Ghasin Buzdar became the new medical superintendent of THQ Donsa. The BBC showed him the evidence collected in his hospital including the use of unqualified volunteers. There are no volunteers in the hospital at this time. Then why were they here? Either your footage is staged or it dates back to the time of the hospital boss before. So according to our evidence the nursing staff take one syringe and draw medicine from a multi-dose vial and then administer it to the child through a cannula. Then they take the same syringe back to the multi-dose vial. This contaminates the vial. No now this practice is not happening at all. We can see injections being given with 10 cc syringes. This is old footage. This is not old footage. The Punjab local government which runs the hospital told the BBC there is no evidence to suggest the hospital is the source of an outbreak and said infection control measures are in place. Usmar will have HIV for the rest of her life. Medication is keeping her alive but there is no remedy for the stigma that has blighted this little girl's childhood. Garry Abed is her uncle. The neighbors and our relatives don't even let their children touch Usmar. Then she asks her mother what is wrong with me. The poor girl says other children don't play with me. They won't even walk with me. Gazelle Abassi with that report and Stolen Lives Who Gave Our Children HIV is her report on the World Service YouTube channel. Coming up later in the programme another BBC investigation uncovers evidence that suggests Greek police have been recruiting some migrants to force others back across the border to Turkey. The Greek Prime Minister denies it. I am totally unaware of these allegations but I would like to make a point. Greece is protecting its borders. Hold on a second. Hold on a second. It is my obligation. It is my obligation to ensure that the borders of the European Union are protected. More from Jess Parker with that report in about 30 minutes time. Our headlines this hour. Israel and Lebanon have held direct talks for the first time in decades to discuss the conflict between Israel and Hezbollah. We'll have more on that to come in a few minutes and the IMF as we've been hearing is warning that the global economy could slip into recession because of the Iran war. This is Rebecca Okesbe with News Hour Live from the BBC. President Zelensky says Ukrainian forces have retaken territory occupied by Russian forces using only unmanned robots, drones, for the first time. He said Russian soldiers had surrendered without any Ukrainian forces being physically present. So what does this incident tell us about modern drone warfare? Well there aren't many details actually of where or how this happened. But writer and AI researcher Arthur Holland-Michel has been telling us more about what this incident does tell us. The way these systems are being used is that they will serve in the case of something like an assault in a fairly similar role as a human soldier. I mean they have weapons on them, they can advance to positions and my sense is that they would conduct an assault in a fairly similar manner, probably in coordination with aerial drones that give us an eye in the sky and then humans back behind the lines, you know, to safe remove operating by remote control. As to the surrendering element, which is of course one of the most striking parts of this story, if you're a human soldier and you have something pointing a weapon at you, whether it is a human or a robot, you're going to respond in much the same manner. And they are of course eminently aware that someone is watching through the robot. Yeah and just to be cynical for a moment, I mean we do keep hearing how demoralized Russian troops are, what their casualty figures are like. I mean is there a chance that Russian troops didn't need much persuading to surrender? Surrendering is never a proud moment and I guess if you do so to a remote control vehicle, all the less so. Obviously the big element of this is the publicity coup that comes with not only being able to demonstrate the technological prowess, but that you're also able to put Russians at risk and get Russians to surrender without putting any Ukrainian lives on the line. President Zelensky is on a bit of a PR offensive with the Ukraine's drone capability at the moment, isn't he? He's struck some lucrative deals in the Middle East recently. Is Ukraine really leading on this or are other countries either involved or do they have similar capability? As warfare becomes more automated, and we're suddenly seeing this also in the Gulf, it really becomes a question of numbers. Who can produce more drones? If you have more drones and the enemy has measures to defend against, let's say interceptor missiles, then you win. Ukraine has become an undoubted leader in that respect. Maybe Russia is close in terms of its production figures, but we're talking about millions of drones a year. There's certainly no European country that comes close, not the United States, not China. So it's really, yeah, it's right up there. So what kind of ethical questions does this raise as well, though? Because we've seen how powerful they can be, and if they're cheap, how many can be produced. What does that mean ethically in terms of warfighting? Well, there are two parts of it. One is that it lowers the bar to entry. It lowers the threshold for lethal action. If you can put your adversary at risk, if you can create lethal effects without putting yourself in harm's way, then your calculus as to whether to take the risk to go to war changes and in general lowers. And that is, of course, problematic. But also war is fundamentally a human endeavor. The laws of war apply to humans, the ethics of war apply to humans. And if you're talking about really offloading all of the steps in the kill chain to machines, then that is changing the normative paradigm. And there are questions of, of course, accountability and also the idea of its purpose. Ultimately, the goal should be to end these wars as quickly as possible. And if they are largely automated, the motivations, the incentives for bringing these conflicts to a close also changes and becomes less. That's right. And AI researcher Arthur Holland-Michel there. The sacred national emblem of Zimbabwe. The Zimbabwe bird is finally returning home. The stone carving, which was literally hacked off its plinth and stolen by European explorers in the late 19th century, was taken to South Africa and sold to colonialist Cecil Rhodes. It's been in Cape Town ever since. The bird, which looks like a big eagle, came from the ruined city of great Zimbabwe, which was built in the late 19th century. The Zimbabwe, which was built more than a thousand years ago, it's near the modern city of Misfingo. Great Zimbabwe was an incredibly important Shauna kingdom, but for nearly a hundred years its true history was misrepresented. Colonialists couldn't believe that an African civilization was capable of building such sophisticated structures, and so assumed Arab traders or some other visiting people must have built it. While Zimbabwe an archaeologist, Professor Shadrach Shirekuri from the University of Oxford has been telling me more about it. Great Zimbabwe was a very important city, perhaps the most thriving human settlement in Southern Africa at the time. It was occupied by up to 20,000 people. It was involved with long distance trade and exchange. So it was a very important hub which connected different parts of Africa and the Indian Ocean world. And the buildings are so impressive that racist colonial regimes of the past wouldn't accept that this complex could have been built by local people. They had all these theories that it could have been the Egyptians or some group of people from the Mediterranean. Why do you think there were these stories? There are many reasons. One of them is that at the time in the late 19th century, some Western people that went to Southern Africa, they had these racist ideas. They believed in African incapacity and then became unfathomable, unimaginable, that a place that is as stunning and exquisitely built as the Great Zimbabwe, the highest walls standing to 11 meters, all built without any binder, such as mortar, standing for hundreds of years, well, to a racist mind then Africans could not have done it. But we know how wrong they were, of course. What we know as a result of a centuries' archaeological work is that Great Zimbabwe was locally built by the Shona people. It was a prosperous city and it was a hub for trade and exchange, a true metropolis of history. Okay, so explain the significance then of the Zimbabwe bird because it's on the flag, it's on the money. What can you tell us about this bird that's being returned? So the bird that is being returned occupies a special place in Zimbabwe. This bird was recovered from what is known as the sacred enclosure on the hill complex at Great Zimbabwe. There were six other birds that were on a platform. So this bird then, which was part of a national shrine symbolizing the ancestors of the kings who ruled Great Zimbabwe, the ancestors were responsible for providing fertility of the land, for the security of everyone, and for the general health. So therein lies the significance of the bird. It is associated with the health of the state. It is associated with the vitality of the nation. So it is not surprising that it is a national emblem and everyone has been yearning when is the bird coming home. And eagles, they have a strong symbolism amongst the Shona people. They are known to play the go-between role between the living and the ancestors. So very spiritual, very sacred and very important. So what does it mean then to have this ancient artifact coming back to Zimbabwe now? I know there's been a campaign to get the bird restored for some time. What does it mean to Zimbabwean people? It's like a part of the country is now back. The country was incomplete with its emblem outside. That's Professor Shadrick Shurekuri there from the University of Oxford. We are digging into every topic we've ever wanted to cover on this show. It's a spinning plate analogy. The second that you stop spinning those plates, that crashes so you can never stop working. The Dream Season 4 comes at you weekly starting Monday, January 20th. When you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system, they matter even more. Granger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. That's why Granger offers millions of products in fast dependable delivery. So you can keep your facility stocked safe and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRANGER, click Granger.com or just stop by. Granger is your trusted partner. If you work in University maintenance, Granger considers you an MVP. Because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip-off. And Granger is your trusted partner. Offering the products you need, all in one place, from HVAC and plumbing supplies to lighting and more. And all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock. So your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-GRANGER, visit Granger.com or just stop by. Granger is your trusted partner. Granger for the ones who get it done. Welcome back to News Hour. Now, who remembers when Hollywood star Timothy Chamele, Chalemay, sorry, recently said at a CNN Town Hall event this? I admire people when I'm done with myself to go on a talk show, but hey, we got to keep movie theaters alive. You know, we got to keep this genre alive. And I don't want to be working in ballet or opera or, you know, things where it's like, hey, keep this thing alive even though no one cares about this anymore. All respect to the ballet and opera people out there. I just lost 14 cents in viewership. Well, now those controversial comments are being credited with boosting ticket sales at Britain's Royal Ballet and Opera here in London, according to its head, Sir Alex Beard. NewsHour's Leila Nathou spoke to him earlier today and asked him whether his heart sank when he first heard the star making those comments. No, actually quite the opposite. I mean, apart from anything, 20 to 30-year-olds are along with 60 to 70-year-olds, the largest slug of our demographic. And we've got 110,000 young RBO members signed up to it. So, no, the use of today's voices, they vote with their feet. No, I just thought, you know, this is brilliant. This is a fantastic opportunity. So you sensed an opportunity then? Absolutely. You know, to surface, you know, what it is that we do, which is to shine a light on the emotions that unite us all through some of the greatest works of our ever made with extraordinary talent. And to use that to invite people to have their say about how they feel about ballet and opera, and, you know, I'm obviously delighted that people, you know, went absolutely off the scale on social media. It was a brilliantly heartening moment, I think, for all of us in the worldwide ballet and opera community. And just one thing for me, you know, today is when we launched our 2026-27 season. And, you know, the interest that's already gathering around that with a programme of, you know, world premieres and new productions for everyone is just fantastic. So I think as the time sub-editor put it, cheers, Timmy. So did you, do you think this was an organic sort of momentum that grew behind, you know, your ticket sales, or was it something that you actually sought to exploit and thought, hang on, we can turn this into a promotion? No, no, I think we, look, it just drew on some things that we've been seeing already. So there's been this marvellous time travel that we've been on since the pandemic, where over the last five years, on average, everyone in our audience has got about eight months younger. And I think that's because there's a huge desire and craving for people to come together in a shared space to reflect on what it is that you know, just particularly in this polarised world, and to look for truly extraordinary experiences. And all of that is absolutely the space that we inhabit, the cultural space that we inhabit. And so I think what Timmy was perhaps referring to was, you know, those old hoary pleases about the art forms. And actually, thank you, what that did was provoking authentic and wonderful reaction from all of our community. Alex Beard, the head of Britain's Royal Ballet and Opera in London, he was speaking to news hours Leila Nathu earlier today. You're listening to NewsHour live from the BBC, I'm Rebecca Kesby. Marco Rubio, the US Secretary of State, has described the face-to-face talks between Israeli and Lebanese officials being brokered by the US in Washington as a historic opportunity for peace. It's the first time such talks have taken place between the two sides in decades. Hezbollah is not there, but it is the real enemy for both sides, that's according to Israel, more on that shortly. But this has been a painful war for the people of Lebanon. During this latest conflict, more than 2,000 people have been killed. Our Middle East correspondent Hugo Bachega spent several days with emergency services in southern Lebanon in the city of Nabataea. So this is the only strike in this area, only our station. Ali takes us to what is left of the paramedic station, destroyed by an Israeli airstrike. So I'll show you here. A colleague was killed. He was here. Yes. And Israel says some ambulances and some health facilities have been used by Hezbollah. This is a false claim, this is not true. They're trying to hide what they did by saying this. This is the only explanation. They've been saying this repeatedly. They don't have any evidence. They haven't seen anything. If they have any evidence, let them show us. Well, we can hear from Israel now. Matula is the country's northernmost town, right on the border, and is surrounded by Lebanon on three sides. So it means it's first when the firing begins from the Hezbollah rockets. Nick Beek is there at the moment and has just sent this report. We've just come into what is a control centre. It's a really small room that's like a pretty normal office until you look at these huge screens here and they show what's going on from dozens of CCTV cameras. Interestingly, they say in the past few days, the number of rockets coming across here has diminished. And is that because it's a prelude to talks happening in Washington, D.C. between Lebanon and Israel, or is it just a mere blip? People here, of course, don't know, and that sense of uncertainty is something that characterises their daily lives. And I think we got no other option besides working with Lebanon to stop Hezbollah's attacks. 19-year-old Tuval Yarkoni is volunteering here before he starts his military service. The threat on Israel still exists. I don't think only work can get this. I really think there has to be a better way than continue the war and then stopping it and continue it again. Hezbollah started firing again six weeks ago after the U.S. and Israel struck Iran. Rockets have killed 12 soldiers and two civilians in Israel since then. In Lebanon, Israeli airstrikes have killed more than 2,000 people, including more than 160 children. Now it's up to us and we have to finish the job. That's the reason that most of the people don't want ceasefire. Yossi Assa, now in his 60s, has lived in Matula all his life. And what do you say to people who say that the Israeli army, through hitting Hezbollah in Lebanon, is actually undermining the whole peace process between the U.S. and Iran, putting it in jeopardy? Well, it's the same system. It's not a different world. It's the same world. Hezbollah is the proxy of Iran, okay? So these things are combined together. Just down the road we meet Ronit Weiss, a retired headteacher. We are very sad. We are not... We are not seeing the solution. When you hear those explosions, what goes through your mind? I'm trying to be strong, but it's not pleasant to be here. They want to kill us. They never want to be together with us. And we have to be strong and to fight. That's the BBC's Nick Beek, reporting from Matula in northern Israel. Well, the talks between Israeli and Lebanese officials have been taking place all day in Washington. Shortly afterwards, we did hear from the two lead negotiators, the U.S. Secretary of State's ambassador to the U.S. Yahil Leiter said that the two sides had shared a wonderful exchange. We discovered today that we're on the same side of the equation. And that's the most positive thing we could have come away with. We are both united in liberating Lebanon from an occupation power dominated by Iran called Hezbollah. Then we got a statement from the Lebanese side, Lebanon's ambassador to the United States, Ned HaMouad. She said that the meeting was constructive. She added that she'd called for a ceasefire. She said Lebanon wants the return of displaced people to their homes in the south, emphasizing the full sovereignty of the state, she said, over all Lebanese territory. Well, the BBC's Ned Atarfiq has been following these talks and told me more about the context of this historic moment. This is the really first high-level engagement we've seen between the governments of Lebanon and Israel since 1993. Of course, the two countries don't have diplomatic relations. They never even had a proper peace agreement being at war in the past together. So both of them still technically at war. And so for that, this was seen as a real step in trying to start a longer process towards a long-term peace deal. And for that reason, we heard the Secretary of State saying that it was a historic opportunity, but also tempering expectations saying that this was about setting out a framework for future discussions. So we just had a little clip of the Israeli ambassador and the statement from the Lebanese ambassador as well. I don't know if you can expand on anything else they've been saying, but of course, I guess one of the issues is, Hezbollah is not represented at these talks at all. Yeah, well, we have had a statement from the State Department as well. And just to bring you that, they did say that both Lebanon and Israel have agreed to launch direct negotiations at a mutually agreed time, so no future date set yet. And I thought what was interesting in the State Department statement there is the fact that the U.S. wants this to be brokered by them and not through any separate track. So they want this to be an American initiative, any potential ceasefire. And look, I think what we can read into the statements there, is that it's interesting to see the Israeli and Washington ambassador kind of say that Lebanon and Israel agreed that Lebanon should be freed from the occupation of Hezbollah, which was an Iranian proxy militia. But in the Lebanese ambassador's statement, Neda Hamad-e Muad, she underscored her country's sovereignty calling for a ceasefire and the return of displaced people to their homes. So instead focusing on the fear of Israel occupying southern Lebanon. So always going into this, there was the difference of the sides. But they are, as you mentioned, on the same side about disarming Hezbollah, but Hezbollah has rejected that and isn't here. So that was clearly an obvious issue going into this. Neda Tafiq speaking to us from Washington there. Next on to some genuinely good news. Conservation efforts to save Africa's mountain gorillas are working. Numbers have been slowly increasing over the past 30 years. And now they've been taken off the critically endangered list. Though obviously experts are very keen to keep up with the good work to try to boost their numbers even further. The windy, impenetrable forest in Uganda is one of the few remaining places on Earth where the gorillas live in the wild. And the BBC's Myra Anubi was lucky enough to visit and she sent this report. There's a group of about 13 of us trekking through the forest right now which includes guides, rangers and of course tourists as well. Now we've been walking for probably about 20, almost 30 minutes now. So we are firmly in gorilla territory. The guides tell us that we're getting closer to the gorillas and remind us to put on our face masks to avoid spreading any infections to them. We've just seen the first gorilla. It's sat down consuming leaves and it seems to be very comfortable around us. There's obviously about eight, ten of us with cameras trying to get the very best pictures, videos that we can of these majestic beasts. There's only just over a thousand mountain gorillas left in the world but numbers are slowly rising and that's partly due to the work of conservationists such as Dr Gladys Kaleema Zikuzoka who's dedicated her life to saving them. I'd say that the mountain gorillas are so special because they're so similar to us. They're really gentle giants. At the same time they're so vulnerable and so you just feel like you want to protect them. And the way she tries to protect gorillas is to make sure she looks after the people who live near the forest through her charity Conservation Through Public Health. Farmers like George Kattemba didn't make enough money to feed their family so would poach in the forest for meat and that could harm the gorillas. Sometimes we'd set traps targeting other animals but we would find the gorillas had been caught in them. These caused injuries and sometimes lead to their death. But thanks to an initiative of Dr Gladys, he now grows coffee beans and gets paid a good price for his crop. The coffee is marketed as Gorilla Conservation Coffee around the world. How has coffee farming changed your life? In the beginning I stopped depending on poaching and hunting animals. Now as you can see my children have clothes. I can pay school fees and I have enough food to support my family. It has truly transformed my life. Dr Gladys also tries to make sure the local community is healthy. Her charity organizes health visitors like Alan who check on people's sanitation and provide advice on good hygiene. When I visit I look at the drying rack, the drinking water, the waste management, the animal shelter and generally the areas where the person lives. Why is it important for homes to be clean and healthy? What difference does that make for the environment? It helps to create harmony between animals and the community and prevents the spread of diseases. Right now what we do is improve the health and the livelihoods of the local communities because as long as people are poor they're going to keep entering the forest to poach and collect firewood. They're going to end up making the gorillas sick or picking up diseases from wildlife in the forest. Since Dr Gladys started work over 30 years ago, the number of mountain gorillas has nearly doubled and they've been taken off the critically endangered list. The BBC's Myra and Newby are reporting from the windy, impenetrable forest in Uganda although she did manage to get in there and you can hear more of her report on people fixing the world here on the BBC World Service. It's also a podcast which you can get wherever you do get your BBC podcasts. This is Rebecca Kezby with NewsHour Live from the BBC. Now a BBC investigation has uncovered fresh, wide-ranging evidence that indicates Greek police have for years been recruiting migrants to force other migrants back across its river border with Turkey. So-called pushbacks are widely considered illegal under international law. The Greek Prime Minister told the BBC he was totally unaware of these allegations. While our Europe correspondent Jessica Parker has the story and I should warn you that her report does contain distressing scenes of violence. Hi, we are all coming from Turkey. A woman films herself in front of a group of migrants huddled under a tree. We have women, children here. It's June 2023. They're declaring that they've crossed the Evros River from Turkey into Greece and making an appeal. Please don't push back us, please accept us. But later there's panic. Masked men are running down a track towards them. A report by the EU border agency's independent investigator found that on the available evidence, the masked men are migrants themselves armed and acting under Greek police orders. Their job here is to force other migrants onto boats back to Turkey. This is a story about so-called mercenaries. Greece's north-eastern region of Evros. Folk musicians busk in local cafes. It's a borderland, lying on the outer edge of the European Union. Tensions have flared here in the past as Greece has long grappled with waves of refugees and illegal migration, including here on the Evros River. Our investigation began when we obtained disturbing images via a smuggler disgruntled with his associates. In one video, an unseen man points a stick at men, sat on the ground, some are stripped, bleeding or bruised. This video is unverified, but mirrors accounts we've gathered over months of migrants being robbed and beaten in a pushback operation where mercenaries work for Greek police. Near Paris airport we meet a Moroccan who we're calling Marwan. He says he was recruited under duress to ferry migrants back to Turkey in 2020, plucked from a crowd of detained migrants by a Greek officer. He told me, you seem like a good guy and speak some English. Do you want to work with me? I felt forced to say yes because I was afraid he would beat me. What was the deal they offered you? 700 euros, papers to stay in Greece and three mobile phones. Marwan denies being violent to anyone, but says he witnessed the worst beatings down by the river. The reason they beat them so much in that spot is to scare the migrants so they won't try to come back to Greece again. We're driving along a highway that's very close to Greece's eastern border with Turkey. Now and then you can even catch glimpses of a grey border fence that marks where the River Evros runs. But we can't just go down to that fence or the river to see what's happening. It's a military zone. So we've had to find other ways of investigating this story. We've come to Turkey. I'm not going to say exactly where because the woman we're meeting really wants to remain fully anonymous. But she says she was pushed back from Greece in 2025. That's despite having lodged an asylum claim. What's more, she has the paperwork and timestamped photos that we've seen to prove that she made it to Greece before she says she was arrested with her family, with her children, in the street by a policeman before being handed over to masked men who took her to the Evros River. They were stripping and beating people. As these men hunted for valuables, she recalls, the children were not spared. My daughter was wearing a diaper. They took it off. She was terrified and crying. He was pushing her, pushing her while removing it. He didn't care if she was a child. I'm just printing off extracts from a disciplinary inquiry into alleged corruption in the Greek border force. As a hearing in 2024, as part of their defence, accused guards talk openly about the use of mercenaries, although they call them boatmen. Pakistanis, Syrians and Afghan first brought in from around 2020. It's claimed because COVID and tensions with the Turkish side had made pushbacks more dangerous. One guard says there was information which they'd reported to their superiors that boatmen were going to the woods, raping the women and taking their money. We have been trying for weeks and weeks to get a response from the Greek government about all of this, but we've had nothing official back, so we've come to a summit in Brussels to see if we can speak to the Greek Prime Minister. Prime Minister, has Greece been using migrants to do pushbacks in Efros? Prime Minister, why won't the Greek government talk to us? Prime Minister Kiryakos Mitsutakis didn't take any questions from reporters that morning, but did come back more than 12 hours later and we were waiting. We've been investigating allegations that Greek authorities have been using migrants to push back other migrants to Turkey in Efros. Are you aware of these allegations? Will you be looking into them? I am totally unaware of these allegations, but I would like to make a point. Greece is protecting its borders. Hold on a second. It is my obligation to ensure that the borders of the European Union are protected. I'm going to be unapologetic about these policies, and I would like to inform you that all the members of the European Council, through their conclusions, have made it very, very clear that we will not allow a massive influx of migrants and refugees into the European Union and we will not repeat the mistakes of 2015. So are you saying that pushbacks... Sorry, Prime Minister, but these allegations are very serious. Serious violence, mistreatment of people. He walked away. Radio Efros plays as we drive through this remote region. Borders and attitudes have hardened a decade on from the peak of the migration crisis, but there's more to this frontier than steel fences, a wild land with a river of secrets. That's our Europe correspondent, Jessica Parker, with that investigation from Greece. Just before we go, a little bit of diplomatic news. President Cyril Ramaphosa of South Africa has got a new ambassador to Washington, Ralph Mayer. He was a chief negotiator during the talks to end white minority rule in the 90s. You might remember there was a big spat between South Africa and the US last year that saw the US expel the former ambassador. He said that there had been Mr. Trump had projected white victimhood as a dog whistle. This was after President Trump falsely claimed there was a genocide of white people in South Africa. So that story is one to watch. New South African ambassador, Ralph Mayer, heading over to Washington DC. That's it for this edition of NewsHour from us all here. Thanks for joining us. 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