at 13 preaches mental health issues like anorexia ocd depression anxiety borderline personality disorder all became apparent at 15 she discovered transgenderism online at 17 a doctor prescribed her testosterone at 18 less than a year and a half after starting testosterone precia had an elective double mastectomy at 24 six years after having her breasts removed precia detransitioned At 26, she unexpectedly became pregnant with a beautiful baby boy. And now at 27, she has become one of the leading voices against what she calls gender affirming harm. And she is suing the surgeons and the practitioners and the therapists who did this to her. Very excited to talk with her on today's episode of the Riley Gaines show. But before we do, let me tell you about today's sponsors. If you've watched the show before, then you've heard me talk about my friends at Y Refi. What they do is incredible. if you yourself or someone you know is drowning in private student loan debt. 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And if you see the post-purchase survey, be sure to say you heard about CozyEarth right here on this show. Everyday love really can start with comfort that makes the little moments count. Today we're talking with Prisha Mosley. She is a detransitioner. If you couldn't gather that from the intro. She's an ambassador for Independent Women's Forum. As alluded to, as a teen, doctors and counselors set Mosley on a path of medicalized gender transition, telling her that changing her body through large amounts of synthetic, unnatural chemicals such as testosterone and undergoing surgery to remove her healthy breasts would cure her mental health problems. Now she has begun her detransition. She's sharing her story loud and proud to anyone that is willing to listen. And she really has become one of the nation's leading voices. Very excited for this episode. Check it out here. Well, Preacher, thank you for joining the Riley Gaines Show. You are someone who has more than anything just become like a dear friend of mine over these past few years. both, I think, unbeknownst to us, really not ever anything, I'll speak for myself, that I wanted to be a part of necessarily in these advocacy circles. But through that, you meet really fantastic people and you are one of those people to me. Would you mind just sharing a little bit about your journey? And I know that's very, very broad, but I mean, the 30,000 foot overview, like, can you give us a little bit of insight for those who don't already know a little bit of your background about what you experienced to ultimately lead you to seeking gender affirming care, so they call it, into now detransitioning and even more than that, becoming a beautiful, wonderful mother. Thank you so much for having me, Riley. It's really great to talk to you and I'm grateful to be your friend too. The updates you give me about the baby and sharing mine with you really touched my heart. Being mom friends, I think, is a special type of friendship. So thank you for sharing that with me. Anyway, as far as myself and my story, I had a difficult, turbulent childhood. There was trouble in my household. I experienced sexual assault. This happened to me when I was 14, actually. And the sexual assault resulted in a pregnancy that I wasn't able to carry through. I was only 14. I was having trouble eating from an eating disorder. I was incredibly depressed, all of this. So when I was around 15 or 16, I was online on the not so popular anymore tumblr.com. But trans identifying activists found me and my friend group online where we were talking about having anorexia and basically encouraging each other to not eat and how this would help us feel better. And these adult activists convinced us that our actual problem was that we were born in the wrong bodies. So about half of us, including myself, took this idea to our doctors. I had been seeing a therapist for a number of years. We had talked about the miscarriage and the sexual assault, and she knew there was trouble afoot in my life. But when I came to her and to my nutritionist, actually, and said that I felt like a boy, I wanted to be a boy, and I hated my period, I was instantly affirmed. There was no pushback. No one told me that I was really a female, just a traumatized one, and that I could grow up into a beautiful woman. I was immediately affirmed. In fact, the pediatric endocrinologist who ended up injecting me with testosterone started meeting with me in secret in the nutritionist's office. So my parents thought they were taking me to be treated for the anorexia and I was seeing the pediatric endocrinologist. So all of that led me to transitioning when I was a teenager. I started the testosterone at 17 and very shortly thereafter had both of my breasts amputated when I was 18. But yeah, I lived as a trans-identifying man, believing that I could transform into a man, into a person that had never been hurt the way I was hurt and who was never going to be hurt that way again only to come to realize years down the road that it was all a scam It was a fantasy and I was medically defrauded. I couldn't change sex. I didn't change sex. And before I knew it, I met my, he's, well, we aren't legally married because I changed my name, my sex, everything, all of that when I was a teenager, still working on that. But I call him my husband. And I met his daughter. She was just about two at the time. And despite the fact that I was still dressing as a man, and I had facial hair and all of that, she started calling me mommy. And that's what ultimately led me to detransition. And since then, I've been traveling the country, going on the news, testifying against what happened to me so it doesn't happen to others. I've testified in most of the states where there are bans against this type of harm for minors. Yeah, and you've done it heroically. And your husband's daughter, your daughter, is just the most perfect, beautiful little girl as well. And it's really powerful to hear you say as a woman, like hearing the word mommy, it almost brings out a maternal instinct that you didn't know you had or that you didn't know you were capable of. And so that's really, really beautiful. You mentioned a couple of things that I have found to be as someone who is chronically online and chronically involved in this space. I have found it to be a commonality, but I want to get your thoughts. Number one, you mentioned sexual abuse, which is just horrific in its nature. But understanding the link to sexual abuse to those who begin to identify as trans, you mentioned being online and kind of those online spheres, especially on outlets like Tumblr or Reddit, where it's very easy to find a group of people who label themselves as supportive, but really only affirm the lies that you were born wrong, which is a very horrible message. And you mentioned things like anorexia or other personality disorders or other things. Do you believe any of those things were overlooked in the medical advice that you received that ultimately led doctors to, I guess, providing this gender affirming care? Yeah, I mean, all of those things were overlooked. And again, I had been seeing the therapist who ultimately signed off on my double mastectomy and wrote the letter of recommendation for that. that, you know, I had had the miscarriage and the sexual assault. She knew this. She knew that I wasn't comfortable in my body. I didn't like what I believed came with womanhood. I didn't feel safe enough to be a girl or certainly to grow up into a woman. And none of this was explored or addressed. Instead, I was told pseudoscience that the problem was really that I had some form of an intersex condition and I had a male brain and a female body and that this medical condition that I was being diagnosed with was the cause of my suicidality, all of my problems, all of my struggles, you know, because my brain and my body didn't match. And then the only solution they offered me was to change my body. And looking back, I mean, that's not ethical. It doesn't make sense. No one else who says that they're suicidal or hates themselves or wants to hurt their body or take away body parts gets this treatment until or unless they say they're trans. I wish everyone could hear that. What was kind of the immediate when you began taking testosterone specifically? Because I've heard from people, whether it's those who are transitioning or even older women who began to take testosterone as a form of hormone replacement therapy, they say kind of the immediate of taking testosterone is a really good feeling. Is that something you experienced? Yeah, for sure. I mean, even if you've been on or known someone on prednisone, you know, people don't want to get off of that. And testosterone is like 100 times more powerful. It did make me feel stronger. It did make me believe that I was never going to be hurt that way again. But that's just not true, because my sex didn't change. And I wasn't taught how to be less vulnerable and take care of myself and to hang around men who wouldn't hurt me and find a better company. In fact, I was thrust into a community full of sexual abusers and predators and pedophiles and people who broke boundaries and did horrible things. I wasn't protected in any way. So you mentioned you began this detransition process. Were those same healthcare providers who were there for you during your transition, were they there for you during your detransition as well? No, I even reached out to the lady who wrote the letter of recommendation for me to start testosterone. And the clinic said that I had never even been there. I was never even a patient there. And then my parents reached out and they told them the same thing, which is an awfully cruel thing to do to someone who's struggled with delusions in the past to mess with their understanding of reality and whether or not they've been to a place or seen a person. I mean, that's just another layer of harm on top of it. But I've been completely abandoned by the majority of the medical community, not just the doctors who harmed me. Why do you think that is? Because outside looking in, again, as someone who hasn't dealt with the extreme nature of transitioning or detransitioning, I see this as a very profitable business, transitioning minors or adults for that matter. Do you think that they were quick to kind of neglect you. And again, I mean, essentially act like you never even existed in their eyes because you were no longer giving them what they really wanted, which ultimately, at the end of the day, whether it was you or your insurance company, money anymore? I think it's not just a loss of income, which is certainly an element, but it's also evidence of harm. They know that they're doing wrong. They know that they're hurting people. And detransitioners are evidence of that. We're going to the doctors with an onslaught of health conditions and no longer trying to hide them or gaslighting ourselves into thinking it's just the opposite sex puberty and we're really changing sex because that's what I thought for years while my body was falling apart. But I'll tell you a little secret. So I can't do this because I'm in a lawsuit, have to do everything by the book ethically. But some girls say that if you go to the doctor and you tell them that, you know, you were transitioned as a minor, doctors gave you testosterone, all of that. They won't help you. It's the usual story. But if you go to that same doctor and you tell them that you used to be a female bodybuilder and you decided to abuse steroids yourself, they'll start having some answers. So they're covering for each other. That's crazy. And you mentioned this lawsuit. Will you tell us about that? I want to get to you as a mom now too, because I think that's honestly, it's like the light at the end of the tunnel in the story as you were able to have this beautiful baby boy. And I want to hear about that experience, but tell us about this lawsuit, who you're suing, what you're suing for. Yeah. So I'm suing a therapist, a woman, the one who wrote the letter of recommendation for testosterone found out she not a therapist or doctor or licensed as anything through suing her So I suing her too And the entity she was associated with I suing Moses Cohn in relation to UNC for transitioning me as well as a surgeon and an actual therapist, all for the testosterone and the surgery. And I'm suing them in the state of North Carolina. and believe it or not, this happened to me about 10 or 11 years ago. So this has been going on for quite a while. Yeah, and it totally debunks the narrative that we hear all the time surrounding the gender ideology movement, whether it's the medicalization side of things, whether it's the men and women sports things, whether it's the indoctrination side of things at educational programs where they say this isn't really happening. Well, you 10 years ago, 11 years ago was proof that this is in fact happening and it is in fact severe and lasting. So, yeah, that's pretty horrific. We've seen some news now where actually two medical associations have come out on the other side of this issue. All the while, again, real harm has been done. So that's not saying that these people or these associations or groups are totally free of any responsibility. But they've now come out and said, you know, maybe it's not a good idea to transition minors. What do you make of that? And what do you do you see this, I think, as an admission on their behalf? Yeah, they knew they knew all along. They didn't suddenly discover it because Fox won two million dollars. Fox scared them by winning her lawsuit, by showing that the entire jury, even in a blue state like New York, knew that she didn't lose. You deserve to lose her healthy breasts, you know, at 16 before having any function for them, any purpose for them. You know, you and I are both, you know, mothers now. And I, I thought that my breasts were just something that made men hurt me at the age that I had them removed when I was 18. And the American Society of Plastic Surgeons recommends until waiting until at least 19. So that would have saved me. And now you're a mom, and you realize those breasts that you viewed in that light, they have real purpose, not just for you, but for your baby at this point. Yeah, I feel like my baby was robbed and that is just so disturbing. I mean, what happened when he was born and my inability to breastfeed and the complications, I would honestly use the word evil to describe it. And I'm careful with that word. But my son was wronged and robbed too. And I'm fighting for justice, not just for myself, but for him too. Well, he'll grow up and realize just how much his mom fought and how his mom fought for him. Can you speak to that if you feel comfortable in what it's like? Because how I view this, Prisha, is you have kind of been this medical experiment three times in your life, right? First and foremost, transitioning. Secondly, detransitioning. And then having a baby throughout this process. So can you speak to and shed light for those of us who don't know how this would typically work? What is it like when you have a baby breastfeeding, but you've had your breasts removed? Like when they remove your breasts, are they taking all the necessary steps to remove mammary glands? like did you feel pain I guess is what I'm asking physical pain when your child is here but your breasts have been removed yeah um it was actually the worst pain the worst thing I have ever experienced in my life by far I mean everything else I've done or faced or seen just pales in comparison and I I'm it's hard to talk about but I'm honestly still afraid of the sound of a newborn's cry because I can't fix it with my body while my body was screaming to fix it. A long time ago, when they weren't doing these surgeries so often, so quickly, or on minors, they used to do quote-unquote top surgery with an oncologist also present so that they could be sure that all of the breast tissue, mammary glands, milk ducts, and everything were removed. But now these surgeries are being done by plastic surgeons who just think highly enough of themselves to rearrange a girl's chest and try to make her look like a boy. So my surgeon left pieces of breast tissue inside of my chest. So when my baby was born, my milk came in, Uh, but he grafted my nipples, meaning he took them off and he cut them up and he reshaped them and he froze them while he operated on me and then reattached them back to my chest in the wrong spot in a male position, you know, so they look like a male, but they have no function. They're just decorative. And so I had these like rocks, like it, I looked down and it looked like I had like scrambled eggs in my chest, but it was like these hard rocks, you know how it gets hard. Um, and it was milk that I couldn't let out. And my baby would scream and cry and I would just be horrified. And the worst part was that my letter, my consent, my informed consent for surgery said that I may have trouble breastfeeding. So I even tried and there was nothing there. there was nothing I could do. And my midwife had no idea how to help me. I ended up just like doing old wives medicine. I scored cabbages and put them on my chest, which I tightly bound and pretty much overdosed on like Sudafed to dry it up. Oh, Prisha, any mom who's ever had the ability to produce milk for her baby, I mean, it's an understatement to say we understand what you're going through, but just the pain, that alone, when you can excrete your milk, the pain that that causes. So even the thought process of not being able to excrete in that way, all while looking down at your chest and seeing something that you don't even recognize that feels so like Frankenstein-esque, I would imagine, is just so horrific and you were so wronged. And I know it's not on me to apologize to those doctors or surgeons who did this, but I am so sorry. Goodness, like it gives me chills and tears to my eyes to to think about the the horrific things you've been through and even continue to go through. You mentioned suing in the state of North Carolina where this happened. What have we seen about statute of limitations Is there a timeline on these things Because I know President Trump it was a priority of his to increase the statute of limitations for detransitioners to be able to sue their providers or practitioners or surgeons Yes, I would say we really need to see a federal bill on this because some states, some laws have been changed at the state level, including in North Carolina, where I'm trying to hold my doctors accountable. And a judge originally found my case to have merit for fraud. And then when the law changed and said that there was a longer statute of limitations changed from three years to 10 years for detransitioners to hold their doctors accountable, my entire case was thrown out. So I'm now appealing to the higher courts of North Carolina, who will hopefully see that the law was changed. This is what the legislature decided and make the decision that they see is just. Do you feel hopeful after especially the recent news? You mentioned Fox winning a two million dollar lawsuit. I believe this is the first detransitioner to successfully win a suit against her health care providers. Like, does that make you feel hopeful? Yes, absolutely. I mean, again, just for the jury, especially in a blue state, to see this the right way is incredibly encouraging. And on top of that, another one of one of my friends, Soren Aldaco, she's also suing her doctors. She has the same lawyers as me, and I think she's also sued in 2023. But her case was just picked up by the Texas Supreme Court, specifically regarding the two-year statute of limitations down there. How many cases are there right now? do you have a finite number of how many detransitioners are suing their medical providers? It's around 30, like very close to 30. Wow. And I would imagine that's a very, I mean, I know actually it's a very small number of people who have been ultimately harmed and irreversibly harmed by people who sold them the lie that they were born wrong. We see a lot of media coverage, especially in the past few weeks, surrounding detransitioners. Are there some misconceptions about detransition or about you guys as a, you know, specific demographic that you wish people understood a little bit better? Yeah, I wish firstly that people wouldn't assume that we suddenly hate our peers, our former community who continue to identify as trans. The truth is most of us realized that we were scammed, we couldn't change sex, and what we tried to do came at the cost of our health and our body parts, and we just don't want that for our peers who still believe the same lies we believed. I don't hate anyone who identifies as trans, especially for that fact. I pity them, and if I am upset with anyone, it's the doctors. I don't think anyone deserves to be harmed that way. I also think that people expect detransitioners to do things to appear a certain way right away, as if the goal of detransition is to appear as your own sex again, when the truth is detransition is about accepting your body where it is, your sex, the way you were born, and then just trying to recover your health. because when I was transitioning, my health was cast aside. It was thrown out of the window. It didn't matter that healthy pieces of me were being cut away and rearranged or that my endocrine system was being destroyed or that I was getting insulin resistance or that my liver was growing. None of it mattered, but it matters to me now. And I think that's the point of detransition. Yeah, I'd certainly say so. Your health, first and foremost, especially after for many years, It was totally disregarded second to appearance or that euphoric, I guess, feeling, even if it meant your health was of not concern. In terms of accountability, kind of last question for you. I see it called for online, and it's something that I hope to see. Do you wish to see these medical providers who allow for practices like what happened to you to happen to others for their license to ultimately be revoked? yeah i honestly think that what they did was criminal at least the people at the top the people like the endocrine society w path uh the american society of pediatrics people like them uh all three of whom are being sued by the state of florida right now by the way um i think that doctors who purposely misled or withheld information from patients who couldn't know better because they were minors or incredibly mentally ill deserve to be held accountable to the fullest extent, whatever that may be. It is so true. Like you think of the Hippocratic Oath, which in being a health law minor myself in college, I had to take many health ethics courses. And I remember learning about the Hippocratic Oath and it is first do no harm. And what they did to you, Preacher. I wish every single person who believes that you can change sex, who doesn't think the practice is to be harmful, I wish they could listen to this and tell me how these doctors did not violate their Hippocratic Oath, because it's very evident that they did. You are just so brave and courageous in the way that you so effectively tell your story, the way that you advocate for policy change, the way that you're pursuing litigation, I think is a crucial part of real and lasting change, holding people accountable, putting their feet to the fire. You're doing all of that and more, and not just for you, but for your children, both of them, for your husband and for the other detransitioners, just like you. So thank you, Preesha. I feel like indebted to you. It's heroic to do what you're doing. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for listening to me. Thank you for caring about people who, you know, have identified as trans or still do and are being harmed by their doctors. No one deserves it. And, you know, I've thought about it a lot. You could hold a grudge. You could be unhappy with the people who've been so cruel to you. But I'm grateful from the bottom of my heart that you don't think anyone deserves this type of medical abuse. nobody nobody i don't care who you are i don't care what you believe i don't care what religion what color if you're gay or straight none of that matters at the end of the day because we're all children of god first and foremost and again an understanding that he created us intentionally and uniquely in his perfect image um i think that's what these especially children again we could make the cases for adults, which certainly, but especially children, that's the message they need to hear. Not that they were born wrong, that God made a mistake when he created them. It just, it breaks my heart. So for doing that, Prisha, a hero in my eyes. So grateful for you. Thank you, Riley. I'll talk to you soon.
