"RE-RELEASE: Kerry Washington"

Hello listener, my name is Jason. I will be one of three hosts. I'm a non-time host. You're gonna have a couple of tardy hosts joining us soon. If not, you're just gonna get me. Just a solo episode with me. I hope that's not your future. But until then, let me tell you a little bit about myself. I'm a Capricorn, a Sage Moon. I love things sweetened with anything other than sugar. I've had addiction issues. I've got to handle on that. I think unless you put something sweetened with sugar in front of me, it's a real trigger situation for me. I just go right down a hillside full of sin. Oh, just in time. Here are the idiots. Guys, welcome to Smart List. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. List. Smart. List. The listener does not know this, but this is our second episode today that we're recording. So what did you guys do in between shows? I had a little egg sandwich. I had pasta. That I made myself, not an egg salad sandwich like Sean would have made. You had an egg sandwich. Now, what was the bread? Was it the actual bread? Not really. What was it? It was gluten-free bread that I had to toast to within an inch of its life, so it tasted decent. And then I put a little fake butter on it and then the eggs on top of it. Okay, hang on a second. It was. I'm pretty sure the eggs were real. We had a conversation with our friend on a different episode about enjoying ourselves and stuff. But I feel that I enjoy, it tastes great. I enjoy it. I enjoy, now last night we went out for a family dinner to this yummy little restaurant down the street that specializes in Italian food. So I ordered a nice big fat cheese pizza and I whipped down more of that than probably I should have. And we had some pasta and I had... In BH or in the valley? Down in Laurel Canyon. Oh, little poche. Yeah, yeah. Little poche now. Oh, you went, you went, poche, not poche. No, I know, but I say poche, you leave it off. That's how you know that you're legit. You leave it off. This one was always... Do the poche. Hey, there's Maeve and she can't hear us. Yeah. Oh, wait, that was, hi, Maeve. That was Maeve, oh yeah, she's over here. Are you guys going for dinner tonight together? We're gonna go, and we're gonna go over to our friend's house and we're gonna celebrate our friend, Sean, because he's... He had a birthday a while ago. He had a birthday a while ago. And in, we... I wish I could be there with you again. I know, I know, I'm gonna miss you. Well, you know, we'll FaceTime. You FaceTimed in last week. I'll FaceTime, I will FaceTime again. Yeah, FaceTime in again. I will, I will this face. You gotta give it time. Who's got time for that? Does the rest of your body, is the rest of your body as dark as your face, Will? Yeah, yeah, of course. No, I didn't ask to see it, to put your top back on. I know, that is a tan like nobody's ever seen. It's really good. So do you read though, you said you read three books while you were there. Was it just for the bounce effect of the paper? Or do you enjoy reading? You just opened it. That's the sun takeover. What were the three books? Do you remember them? Were they all nonfiction? Were they all World War II books? The Giving Tree? No, again. I haven't finished my third to be honest. What were the first two? Were they just airport fiction? Well, one of them is my dad's book, Bean Fate. Which I finally read, which is amazing. I'm so proud of my dad, Jim Arnett, who wrote a book during the pandemic. And he wrote this sort of fictionalized this novel based on history. He got it published. That's cool. Yeah, it's really cool. And honestly, I was reading it, I was just thinking the whole time, I'm like, I'm so, my dad did this. I'm so proud of my dad. So it's called Bean Fate, and it's really, really good. This is about the bean farmers of Calamongas? No, no, no. I think it's not the... It's a remake of the Bean War or something, right? Calamago, sir. The Milagro Bean-Build War. Yeah, good for him. Because I don't think they really got it on the last one. So, okay. No, it's about booze runners back, prohibition style, back in the day. Pach. Up in Saskatchewan in the Brahmin family, et cetera. So I did that, and then I read The Sympathizer. Have you guys read that? Oh, no, I feel like I wrote it. It's written by Vietnamese American author, Viet Thanh Nguyen. It's about the Vietnam War? And it's about the Vietnam War, and he himself is a Vietnamese origin. Descent. Descent and origin, and he came here when he was young. And so it just talks about the experience of, God, I honestly, I couldn't have loved it more. But it's not just about that, it's just about such a unbelievable story of, I don't know, just a guy who led a complex life. And there was so many. Are there colored pictures in it, for me? Any pictures of him sympathizing with folks? So many incredible, incredible passages in the book that just blew me away that I would have to read out loud. I'll check that out. Yeah. I'll bet you $1,000 that you don't. You won. Yep. Why? Now, how do you decide what you're gonna read when you're on the beach there? Like, reading in the sun makes you wanna. What I do is, sorry, then I just started, I'm now reading this Splendid in the Vile, which a lot of people have read. These are big books. The sympathizers are one that put surprise. Reading in the sun, to me, it's like being trapped in a hot car with the windows rolled up, stock broken. I don't know when the driver's coming back, kind of have a three-year-old screaming in my ear. Yeah. That's what reading on a hot beach sounds like to me. Really? Yeah, because I'm already sweating and I'm still. And I have to concentrate on words. And I got the hard balance off the paper. And I got sunglasses on and other sweats dripping on the glasses. I gotta keep wiping the glass. And I hear all the people having fun in the water. Yeah, it's I can't. You know what though? I'm snacky. I get real hungry on the beach. You know what's amazing is our guest today. Great segue. Our guest today is so fun. I love her. She's like a big megastar. I'm no big deal. I've got it. It's a woman. I've got it. I've got it. She's been on one of the hottest primetime dramas in the last few decades. She's born and raised in the Bronx. She's a New Yorker through and through. This might give it away. At a young age, she performed with the award-winning Tadah Youth Theater Teen Group. She graduated college with a double major in anthropology and sociology. Clearly not the right one. Before winning an Emmy, one of her earliest acting kids was, I gotta ask her about this, a traveling sex education sketch group. Her last name is not only a U.S. state, but also an Apple. Please welcome the beautiful and extremely talented, Carrie Washington. Carrie. Carrie. Hello Carrie. Hi guys. Let's get right into it. A traveling, what is it? Yeah. A sex education sketch group. What is that? It was not sketchy, although we did sketches. We were, oh my God, that's where we're starting. Okay. I'm so nervous. We are not journalists. I'm such a mega fan of the show. So I'm really excited and a little nervous. No, Michael. Listen, we're just hanging out. Yeah, you can already hear what idiots we are. Well, every episode, but that's why we love you. So okay, so. Bring us up. When I was a high schooler, when I was a teenager, I worked for the Adolescent Health Center in New York City, Mount Sinai Hospital. And it was like the beginning of the AIDS epidemic, like late 80s, early 90s. And we used to, we wrote these sketches, these skits, about safer sex issues and losing your virginity and drug abuse and LGBTQ rights. So it was like, I find you attractive. I find you attractive. Hold on, let me get a condom. What was like, how do you ask your boyfriend to put a condom on? Or how do you put a condom on? How do you make that conversation sexy? Because all the research was like, people have the information, but the behavior change is not there. So we used to write these shows. I'd love to hear the first few wishes. I would too. By the way, I've had, God, Carrie, it's like you gave me a bat and you put me at the plate and I've just been standing here and you just throwing softballs at me. I'm doing all my best because I want to impress you. Don't hold back. Don't hold back. No, because I don't want to be just a total dirt bag. And I'm just like, man. Be yourself, well, be yourself. This is your space. I'm a guest in your house. Do yourself. What was the draft that made it to the stage on how to put on a condom in a funny, funny way? Well, we used to teach kids how to put condoms on by using bananas. So that always got a laugh. But it was really more like, I mean, there was, the first sketch I was allowed to do was actually a scene about whether or not I was 13 when I started doing the show. So the only sketch they would let me do in the beginning was should I lose my virginity or not? And it was a whole sketch about like my really cute boyfriend who's kind of pressuring me and I don't know if I should or shouldn't. And then the cool part, and this was actually incredible acting training, was that we would, the problems of the show were unresolved and we would stay in character after the show and the audience would like solve our problems. We would ask the audience for advice. So they would like be in conversation. Yeah, we stayed in character. Doesn't that mean the show's still going? No, like the show would end and then we'd do a Q and A, but our Q and A would be in character. And sometimes I would be playing like more than one character. So I'd have like a baseball hat for the girl who wasn't sure she should lose her virginity and then like a red scarf for the girl who was like needed to tell her brother stop selling drugs. So we had all these different like, you know, conflict issues and I got to develop character backstory and learn to be spontaneous. And I found my yes and while doing sex education. But what was this group that sounds somewhat charitable and, you know, altruistic. You're judging me, I hear you judge me. No, no, no, no, but it sounds like you're like doing great thing. I wish I was doing stuff at 13 that was going around and doing, you know, but doing shows. But doing shows for like hospitals, isn't you said this was like, Yeah, we performed at like schools and community centers. How did you get involved in that? That sounds like you were walking around with a bunch of very nice people. I have a great parents. I was really into acting and my mom had read that there were auditions for this children. I had done children's theater with that company, Tadah, that was mentioned, which is a company in midtown. And this was like for teenagers and my mom had seen an ad about it and she, my mother's an educator. So she was like educational theater is a great thing. And then I came home with all these pamphlets about like gonorrhea and she was like, what is this? But I love to see the one act on gonorrhea. Don't worry about it. We're going to put a condom over a banana. We're going to fix the world's problems. One banana at a time. Funny thing happened under the weight of the theater. It's exactly. Wait, Carrie, let's, I want to get this out of the, okay guys, I have kind of a long story. I was wondering if we were gonna tell this story. Okay, we're going to do it. We're going to do it. And we're just going to get past it because how could we not do it? She willing to lay down? Yeah, no, so you guys. I was shocked that you asked me to be your guest because I was like, there's no way we're not telling this story. Of course we're talking about it. Me being punked by Sean Haines. So these guys have no idea what I'm going to say. So it's like, if you can hang in there for like two minutes, which is a long time, but it's a long story. Cause here we go. It's one of the most embarrassing things that's ever happened to me. I was shooting a pilot last year and it's a long email to Carrie asking her to help me out. And she emailed me back. Let me jump in. Let me jump in. Yes. Nicest email I've ever gotten in my life. It's a great email. Like, you know the emails, you know the notes you get from a fan where you're like, I should maybe call security cause this person is like really loves me. But it was like from another famous person. So it was okay. And it was like somebody that I respect and admire. So I was like, oh my God, I was so moved. I was deeply moved. I meant every word. And then there was the ask at the bottom of it. Always, always. Always, right? So, but she, Carrie emailed me back, asked for my number, said, I'd love to call you to chat more about it. Great, fantastic, wonderful response. At the same time, I was guest hosting a few episodes of Jimmy Kimmel show. And while there had befriended a producer named Aaron, Aaron Irwin who's now a friend. So one night I'm going home from the shows. I got a text from on my phone saying, I'm watching you on Kimmel right now and you're doing great. And I was pleased by the message, but I was like perplexed cause I didn't recognize the number. And then I decided, I deduced that it was Aaron from Kimmel who was maybe watching like a rough cut of the show because we just exchanged phone numbers as I left the studio, but I hadn't put her contact in for my phone. Here we go. So I pulled over and saved the number in my contacts. It's Aaron from Kimmel. Now I'm at home cut to, I'm at home eagerly awaiting the call from Sean because this is my number one fan. I mean, my dad doesn't love me this much. And now I think I'm gonna get a healing because somebody who loves me is gonna get on the phone with me and it's gonna change my life. And even though I'm gonna say no to the ask, we're gonna be friends forever. Right, perfect, right. Big load of junk food just to prop you up. Perfect. All right, so the phone rings, I pick it up and say, hey, and I see it's Aaron from Kimmel. What's going on? Aaron says, hi, how are you? Your email is so sweet. I couldn't wait to talk to you. And I said, email, what email? And Aaron says, the email I sent you. And I was like, I don't remember sending you an email. Are you sure? And that's when the tone shifted between us. And I said, Aaron said, is this Sean? And I said, yeah, who's this? And Aaron says, you didn't send me an email with your number? And then I turned into a total asshole and I go, I think you have the wrong number. Why don't you check that email address and your contact? Then why don't you get back to me? And that's when Aaron was like, that's probably a good idea. So I go sit down. I hang up the phone and I turn to my husband and I'm like, I'm being fucking punked. Because Sean Hayes sent me the nicest email I've ever gotten in my life. I just got off the phone with him and he was such a jerk to me. And he's acting like I made up the email. I was like shaking. I was so, I was like, why would somebody do that? Does he think I'm untalented? So wait. I was so upset. I go sit down and talk to my husband. And I'm chatting, I'm telling you, I just got the craziest phone call. And at 15 minutes in the conversation with Scotty, I did all the math and like a shot in a movie came zooming towards my face. I go, I jumped up and I screamed, holy shit, that was Carrie Washington. And credits. Yeah, open credits. Yes, I texted you back immediately, explained everything. And asked, begged for you to call me back. And I answered the phone and you were laughing. I was, I couldn't stop laughing because I was really like, I thought I was being pranked and I was so relieved. Isn't that crazy? It was so, so lovely. Wow. God, that was funny. Yeah, my feelings were so hurt. And I was like, I'm being gaslit. Like he's gaslighting me. You guys have this great, now this great, like shared history. Beautiful. Are you jelly? You're jealous. A little bit jelly. Cause we only, we had our dinner. We had our dinner. We sat next to each other. We didn't know each other. You were there. Don't say, whoa, you were there. Yeah, you were across the table. Yeah, but I mean. When you guys worked for me, you know, you guys have all worked for me as a producer. And we worked for you when we did the facts of life. Live in front of a studio. Wait, who was at this dinner? What are you talking about? Jason and Will were at it together. You know how we, when we did it, we had to cast dinner to kick off for our episode, which I wasn't a producer then. So I have, I'm not. Oh, that's right. You were produced on the set. That's right. But I produced them the next two. And so these two, I came to the cast. Tell the listener what we're talking about. We're talking about your sister for your sister. This makes me so happy. I'm in the family. We, for Norman Lear's live in front of a studio audience, which all three of you have graced us and blessed us with your performances. And likewise, as you have. And those specials. Yeah. And if it weren't for really active producers like you and Justin Thoreau, that show would not be moving at all. I do a lot more than Justin Thoreau. Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. I just want to put that out there. Justin Thoreau, and he must be nominated for a producer's Guild Award this year. Because I mean, this guy... And that means... He got his... He rolls up his sleeves and he had them. He would have rolled them. If he had any sleeves, he would roll them up for sure. What is it with your thing with people not having sleeves? No, just Justin. It's just Justin. Everybody wears them except him. Every day of his life, he has it cut off. Sometimes people don't have them with them, the Jim and stuff. But not everybody just doesn't wear them ever. Even basketball players now wear sort of like under sort of long sleeve thing. Yes, yes, with a cuff. You know what usually deters people from going sleeveless? Winter. That usually gets people to pop into a sleeve or two. Not him. Not this guy. Or mosquito infestations. It doesn't matter to him. He's fearless that way. He's fearless that way. We'll be right back. This is a paid ad by BetterHelp. You know, you've heard me talk a lot about my mom and how funny she was and how much we love her. But boy, was she a huge inspiration to me. She gave me the tools I needed for the work ethic I have and the funny bone in my body. She's one of the best human beings, if not the best human being I've ever known. Women deserve to be celebrated. But we should also recognize that many women carry emotional weight at work, in relationships, in families, and in the roles they play for others. Whatever you're navigating, career expectations, parenting, caregiving, or more, Therapy with BetterHelp can help you check in with yourself, unpack what's feeling heavy, and build healthier pathways forward. BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform and handles the initial therapist matching work for you. Just take a short questionnaire to share your needs and preferences, and thanks to BetterHelp's industry leading match fulfillment rate, they usually get your match right the first time. You can also feel confident knowing BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully qualified. Your emotional well-being matters. Find support and feel lighter in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com slash smartlist. That's a better H-E-L-P dot com slash smartlist. And now back to the show. Kara, one thing I didn't know about you was, by the way, what a story we'll have for the rest of our lives. The rest of our lives. But double major, anthropology and sociology. Hey, why, if you knew at such a young age, you wanted to act, and have you utilized that degree? This is a great question. I, so it's actually a little more complicated into that, but that's the easy answer that I give people. I designed an interdisciplinary major called Performance Studies, and it was inspired by, it was based on the graduate programs at NYU and Northwestern. So it was like the study that performance plays in different societies and cultures. And that's what interested me, but you have to, to design your own major, you have to write this whole thesis and defend it, because they wanna just make sure you're not trying to get out of taking statistics. So I had to kind of really work with all these academic mentors, and come up with this program, and design a curriculum for myself. And yeah, I'm just, I'm super interested in how we perform professionally, all of us, but also how we perform just in our everyday lives. And yeah, I think I have used a lot of it. I mean, I think, you know, what we, for me, I tend to think about characters in the kind of social science context. Like when I'm playing a character, I like to think about how she's become who she is, and how she thinks, and how she lives in the world, and how society impacts who she is. So I do feel like I use some of my, I feel like such a nerd, I've been talking too long about this, but I do, I use some of my social science, but I love it all the way. I was about to talk about my character room that I have here, and I go into my character room, and I've kept all the costumes of my great characters, all my costumes. Yes, yes, through the years. Wait, now, Carrie, I'm the dumbest of the four of us. Will you define anthropology for me? Pause, pause, he is. Go ahead. Anthropology is the study of society, yes? Sociology is more the study of society. Anthropology is more about ants, is this just about ants and the ant culture, right? I mean, no, it's more, anthropology is more indigenous cultures and historical culture, so not present day society, but more the role of kind of how societies have evolved through time. Sociology would be the modern day version of anthropology. Which currently, which currently have. That's enough will. Anthropology has a little more ritual, like study of ritual. Yeah, but it's also a fabulous story. There's my fellow dumb dumb right there. Hi. I like anthropology, I like their stuff. Well, you'd like the sympathizer, it's a great book. Hey, actually, I'll kidding you, so. One of the few let's say. Wait, did you go, it did. Did you go to NYU? Is that what you were saying? No, no, no, I look, those NYU and Northwestern were the schools that had graduate degrees in performance studies that I admired and was interested in, but I didn't actually want to go to graduate school, so I tried to just skip ahead and do it in undergrad. I went to GW, G-Dub. Oh, okay. G-Dub. G-Dub. G-Dub. Now, did you finish with a degree in anthropology and sociology? I finished in a degree in performance studies. I got to actually, like, I wrote my own situation. Got it. I created my reality. Wow, does anybody call you K-Dub? Yes, especially because I went to G-Dub. Yeah, people call me K-Dub. I just thought of that. Now, wait, are you the only one with a college degree on this chat? Yeah. Sean, what's your excuse? How far did you go? I went four years and then I got an honorary doctorate, but I never graduated. I got one of those, too. You just show up. I got one of those. Yeah, if you get it on the beach, they give you one. You can get one of those, guys. Sean, I don't understand. You went for four years. How did you not? Isn't that how long it takes? That's a great question. I was two or three courses shy and I just did not have any more gas in me to go. I'm fascinated because you seem like a completer, too. I spent a lot of time with you and you seem to have a tremendous amount of gas. You got plenty of gas. I especially with the amount of tuna salad you eat, are you getting with plain chips? And he likes to fuse with that glass of milk and off he goes, milk. Nobody kills a bag of plain chips in a glass of 2% milk. Did you really drink a glass of milk? Is it real milk? Like just like cow's milk? Yeah, every day. He's gonna get in his Plymouth and drive off in a minute. But wait, Sean, so you ran out of gas two credits short. Will, how far did you get? Oh, I made it half a year. Well, half of the first year. Half of a year. Yeah, that's right. Because college to me wasn't all just about the studies. It's about the social, it's about growing up, being on your own and like figuring stuff out. I had already been out of the house. You know, I went away to school first when I was 12. Now I heard this story on the show about your clothes being taken to a crosstown. That was, I was like, that's kind of child abuse, no? Yeah, it was different. And then they made him plant trees and fix sewer pipes too. And we did a lot of stuff. I mean, look, I didn't have a, it's not that bad, believe me, but I was 12 when I left. So, oh, you got a bogey. I was running around in your house. That's Emily. I know, I know. The bogey locations go to two? Guys. Emily's actually, she has listened to your show longer than I have. Hi, Emily. Hi, Emily. Emily, they're saying hi. Hi, Emily. She's saying hi. I'm geeking out. She's geeking out. When I was at dinner with you guys, when I was at dinner for the cast for live in front of a studio audience, I actually had not listened to a single episode yet. And I was embarrassed. And so I faked having listened to a few episodes and I was able to do so effectively. She's got skills. She's a professional liar. I was able, well, I'm an actor. But I knew just from hearing Emily talk about it and also hearing my husband, Nnamdi, talk about it, I had enough context clues and like reference points to pretend that I had seen, but I hadn't. I hadn't watched and listened. And so then I went home and felt bad. So I started listening and then I was like, this is the best podcast ever. Jason, tell Carrie how much you love Scandal every episode. I've seen as many episodes of Scandal as you have seen of Arrested Development, Sean. I have watched Ozark. Now, well, thank you. Now, what do you guys do about that? Cause we all know a lot of people and are friends with a lot of people that do a lot of stuff and you can't possibly see it all. You can't watch it all. Yeah. Do you feel bad about that? Do you lie about it? Do you make an effort? I'm just, I'm terrible about it. Well, I've just admitted that I lie sometimes, but I try not to. But you don't think you do really lie? Well, her friends, it's out there as they know. That she just lies and that's fine. What I do is, you know, what's hard is, Sean, you know this one was like when you go, when somebody says, I'm doing, you know, I'm in a show on Broadway or I'm doing a play or whatever, I'm always reluctant to go because you have to go and say hi to the master. Well, now Carrie, talk about that. I've changed Will since we talked about that. Like I know somebody, I won't say her name, but I'm very extremely, gigantically globally famous who came to one of my shows and she didn't come back and I was like, I get it. We don't really know each other. Why would she come back? It makes me spiral. When somebody doesn't come back, I, and I'm maybe that just means I'm an insecure person. I, it freaks me out. Now, but how do you know that they're there? Cause that's the part that is- They tell you. So listen, her first- The house manager tells you. So Tracy, when you're doing a show on, in New York, I think specifically in New York or is it in Chicago too, anywhere anywhere. You end up finding out if there's anybody who has a SAG card that's sitting in the audience and whether you've invited them or not. SAG card, Tracy sidebar. Tracy, that's a screen actress. Gold card. Double Tracy sidebar. So if they don't come back, you have to go back and say that you love the show. Even if you don't know the people in the cast. I just found that ritual to be weird. Well, that's what I mean. So I don't want to lie. I just I'm like, I'm not going to stuff, because I want your special. Because you don't want to go and not like what you see and then have to lie about it. Right. Oh, aren't you a person of integrity? No, I'm not. Can't you go to a show? I just don't want to get busted for lying. Can't you go to a show without anybody knowing that you're there? I mean, like, clocking the audience. Which is why I go into my character room. It depends on the show and the audience. Like, for me, I could never in my life go to a show that has a black cast and not go backstage, because they will know that I'm there. But wait a minute. You're saying if you were in a show and somebody in the audience has a sad card and doesn't come back, you take that personally? Yeah, there's an actor who I knew had come to see a play I was in called American Son. And he did not come backstage. And unbeknownst to him, I held it against him for like a year and a half. I was like, I just thought, how, like, why? It was, you know, why? Yeah. Did you ever run into that actor and ask him? Well, I then found out, because I'm friends with his wife, that she was the only one who had come and that she was running straight to the airport afterward and that's why she texted me. And so I was like, oh my God, I've been like, he's been dead to me. Inside my heart, snubbing him at parties. Yeah, he's been dead to me for a year and a half, for no reason. You know what I'm gonna start doing? I'm gonna start going and taking in a lot of theater and making a point of not going backstage. But hanging around outside a lot for a while. For a long time. And then leaving, and then going like, not only did he not come back, but he fucking, he didn't even run off. He was here. He was here for a while, milling around. What I learned in that is that I have to be more generous. Like, and I try to be more generous in my attitude toward people, but that was a really good reminder of like, you don't know what's going on in people's lives. Like, even if somebody really stubs you to your face, you don't know if they just had a car accident or like it just was a reminder, like be generous. The world just does not revolve around you and your Broadway performance. But you seem constantly happy, sunny. You don't seem like a dark person. What would get the real ire up in you? When are you the nastiest? Finally we're gonna meet the real Carrie Washington. No, well, I... Is it traffic? Is it people that cut you off from traffic? No, no. I'm not a traffic, because I'm not a very good driver. So I have to be generous when I'm driving. Yeah, what really pisses you off? You know what? Dishonesty. Like, to circle back, like if I feel like I'm being gaslit or people are keeping information from me, in that way, you know how like, people really like to infantilize actors? Like they don't wanna talk to the talent, they don't wanna tell talent things. Or like, just in my life, throughout my life, whether it's through, because of my acting, if I feel like people aren't being honest with me, it really upsets me. This is what makes you a good producer, right? Yeah, maybe. If it's somebody who's like, holding the information and then sort of disseminates it throughout the production, you understand what a value that is and how bad it is when you're on the other side of that, not getting... Carrie, by the way, I can relate to that. I'm like, tell it to me straight. Yeah, just let you know. Tell it to me fucking straight, and let me, I'll decide how I react. By the way, honestly, Will, if you come to see me in something, like let's say accidentally, you stumble upon a play that I met on Broadway. You don't know I'm in it. Yeah, yeah, sure. If you came backstage and you said, I'm not crazy about this one, it would make me feel closer to you than you leaving. Because you're honest, Carrie. And I appreciate the transparency. I'm making this pledge to you today. You're gonna tell me when I suck. I will always be honest with you. I will always be straight up with you about what I think about where you're at. And I want you to know it. And forget it, performance on stage and in your life. Oh my God, this is amazing. Carrie, the worst thing, wait, really? The worst thing anybody could ever say when they come backstage, boy, it looks like you're having a lot of fun up there. That's the kiss of death. That is the worst. Or like, or they're like, you guys did that. That was, you did, wow, you did that. You do this how many times a week? Yes. Well, that's the thing too, is it's so, you're so vulnerable. When you're on stage, you're so, there's no edit room. There's no score to hide the moment that wasn't fully honest. Like you're just so vulnerable up there. So I think that's probably why it was also like a little more raw than usual. Yes, yes. Now in the world of not being told everything that maybe they should be told, in the world of series television, Tracy, oftentimes actors will not be told how that particular season is going to end. Now you're a producer on that show, so you probably have more access to storylines. But have you had that instance with the head writer about, let me know what my finish line is as an actor so I can calibrate what the arc is to get there instead of waiting to read each episode piecemeal. Yeah, I was not a producer in the beginning of Scandal. I became a producer later on in the life of the show. And director. Yes, and director. And but my favorite example of not knowing was we had a guest star named Joe Morton. And Joe Morton is an actor I'm a huge fan of. He did an incredible John Sayles film called Brother From Another Planet. Oh, I love Joe Morton. He's so good. So he's a stellar. And he came out, he was like the one guest star that came out on our show that I called home to mom and dad and was like, oh, I got Joe Morton's on the show. And I was never in scenes with him. He was always in scenes with these other characters on the show. And every table read I'd be like, God, I really hope that we can do a scene together. And he'd be like, me too, me too. And I knew that he had been in talks to do Romeo and Juliet on Broadway and he had dropped out of that to come to Scandal. And I was like, he doesn't even get any scenes with number one. Like why did he drop out of the screen on Broadway? He's got no scenes with me. Like why did he do that? I just was super like, what's going on? At the end of the scene, the very final line of that season was I get in a car, Joe Morton is sitting across from me and he says hi and I say with a question mark at the end, dad, because he was my father on the show. And he knew from the beginning, from his first phone call with Shonda Rhimes, he knew that he was going to be my dad. And I didn't know until our table read of that episode, like live, it was on purpose then. It was incredible. Yeah, so wonderful. But it would have been cool if they'd pulled like a Star Wars and didn't tell you until you were actually filming the scene. Right? Is that how it happened in the scene? Yeah, Empire Strikes Back, they had some... Well, do you mean in the movie, but not on set, right? No, on the set, Darth Vader just blurb something else and then in post, they put, you are Luke, I am your father. So that the crew didn't know nobody knew until the movie came out. Right, and I think Mark Hamill knew. I think Mark Hamill knew, yeah. Wow. Isn't that wild? They were trying to protect the crew from leaking that to the fan base. Yeah, I don't, I think that's what I thought. Hey, Sean, any more great tidbits from fucking the Winner Circle? From 70 years ago. Also... What about Chris Kynes? What are you doing? Audition process for Star Trek. Let's bring Scotty in to give us some light on that. Okay. Do you know that the bridge on the Enterprise actually wasn't a bridge at all? It was scandal, the first thing that kind of changed your trajectory or was it something else that made people really take notice or do you think that that's the thing that really launched you? That was the thing. I mean, I had a really great film career before that because I had been in these Oscar nominated films. Like, I had a joke that if you hired me to play your wife, you would win an Oscar because I was with Jamie Foxx and Rey and I was in Last King of Scotland with Forrest Whitaker. And so I had done, but nobody connected that the girl from Save the Last Dance was the girl from Rey. Was the girl, like, I was kind of a character actor and it was sort of disappearing into these really fun, very different films with accents from all over the world. But TV is just different, especially before streaming, right? Like TV was a different beast where all of a sudden I was in people's living rooms every single week. Like how many people do you have in your life that you actually spend an hour with every week other than your shrink? Not a lot. So it's a very intimate relationship. I was just talking to you, Sean. I was just talking to myself. And myself. So it did, it definitely changed my, like it changed, you know, sort of the level of, how I walked in the world maybe, or like level of fame or whatever. Yeah, and were you scared to step in a role of leadership like that? Or was it finally like, was it like finally, ah, my God, this is like what I've been waiting for to be like the number one on the call sheet kind of thing? No, I really, there was all this pressure because at the time there was all this talk, every interview was about the fact that in almost 40 years there had not been a black woman as the lead of a network drama. Every article in the beginning, that's what, and so, and I was like 37 or something at the time. So in my lifetime, I had never seen a black woman as the lead of a network drama. And so that's, all my pressure was my fear of like, if I screw this up, they're not gonna let another woman of color be the lead of a network drama for another 40 years. Like I knew that we had to get it right. And I just had to work as hard as I'd ever worked on anything in my life. But luckily I've worked with amazing number ones. Like Jamie Foxx is the best number one in the business. No offense to you other number ones on here, but he's just the king. No one's better than Jamie Foxx. Jango Ray, like having worked with him in those, he's just a fun, he's so generous. He's a team leader, he's a coach, he's a cheerleader, he's everybody's dad. And so you picked stuff from him and like, yeah. Yeah, I tried to collect like Forrest Whitaker's a beautiful number one. Julia Stiles was an incredible number one. I just tried to remember the things that I admired about the leaders, the good leaders. Yeah, she's so great. Oh my God, Jango and Shane is one of my favorite movies of all time. You were unbelievable in that. And I've seen it so many times. It's always, Quentin Tarantino is great at the theme of revenge, right? And that thing, I watched, whenever I watched that movie, it's disturbing to see you, that character, it's so disturbing. Any kind of fun Quentin stories? I mean, I love that he inserted himself in there and that one scene, it was so fantastic. Wait, which one? I forget. Jango and Shane. I got a call, I was asleep in my apartment in New Orleans. We were like halfway through filming and I got a call at like two or three in the morning and I pick up the phone, it's like, I was like, hello? And I hear Leo DiCaprio and JB Foxx being like, yo, we need to talk. And I was like, what's happening? And they were like, Quentin wants to be in the movie. I was like, what? So it that like unfolded in the middle of shooting. Really? We were all shocked, but it was great. He was great. So Jay just reminded you in the movie, he intercepts like the transfer of the collected slaves, right? And freeze them or something, I can't remember. I'm so bad about remembering movies. I swear to God, I can't remember anything. I can see a movie last week and forget the entire thing. Same, same, even movies I've been in. I don't remember movies I've been in. I don't remember lines. I like to think it's for a positive reason that like maybe we're so good about getting completely inside that world that once you leave that world, it stays over there. I don't know. That's a glass half fall. Yeah, it's kind of like in memento, like how he forgets like the neck, you know what I mean? Do you have an easy time memorizing lines though? Yeah. Jason does. Jason's unbelievable. And do they stay with you or do you forget them? No, I can drop them just as easily as I learn them. But like it seems like all my memory skills have just been channeled into that one very narrow lane. It's not great. Yeah. And now a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show. Kear, if I answered you, I mean, if I asked you this question and you had to think of something really, really fast. Who's one or two of your favorite actors of all time that you worked with? Meryl Streep and... controversial. Yeah. Well, I'm being honest. Not a lot of people agree with you on that whole talent assessment thing. What TikToks has she been? Have we seen him on a TikTok? What TikToks has she been on? And I mean, it's hard. There's so many. You can't top Jamie Clarks. I love that that was the first one. And Jamie. I love Jamie. Yeah. Yeah, I just love him. I love him. What was your first paid acting gig? My first paid acting gig. I played a cheerleader. I don't think I had a name. I think I was like cheerleader number two in an ABC After School special called My Special Angel. Oh, wow. I think. Who was the angel? I don't know. I don't remember. I may have done a PSA or something before that. God, After School specials. Remember those? After School specials. Jason, did you ever do one? An After School special? I don't know if I did an After School special. I did a few movies of the week. Those were good. Remember there used to be a CBS, NBC, ABC. They all used to make their own movies that run Sunday night. Yeah. Now it's like Hallmark Channel does those in lifetime. Wait, so Kara, and the other thing that I went on and on about before, but I'm gonna do it again because you're so amazing, was American Sun on Broadway, which I didn't get to see because I was doing something. And then, but I laid it to see it on Netflix. So first of all, it was such an ingenious idea to film the play like that. It was like a hybrid of stage and film. I'd never seen anything like it. Your performance was off the chart. Like it was amazing. Wait, you're allowed to do that? You can film a play on Broadway? No, it was. No, we like, so really the reason I came up with that idea was because I loved producing. I love producing. I fell in love with producing at Scandal. And the first film I produced was a film called Confirmation for HBO, where I played Anita Hill. And then I fell in love with it. And so they came to me to do this play on Broadway, the producers, and I said, sure, I'll be in it if I can help produce. But on Broadway, producing really just means finding money. You get to be a creative producer as well. But I was like, oh, I don't do the financing thing. I haven't done that. But I was like, okay, I'll jump in and I'll try. And one of the ideas I had for how I could make the money to help produce the play was like, what if we film it? What if we can sell it to a streamer? Sell the rights. Such a great idea. So Netflix, Ted read it and loved it. And he... But Jay, it was filmed not in a proscenium. It was filmed... No, we built us on stages. We kind of like built a fourth wall to complete the room because the play all takes place in one room. And so we just completed the room and shot it on a stage in the one room. Your performance was just mind blowing. That means so much coming from you. Thank you. It was. Not that much, but I really want to see it. I really, really... By the way... It's on Netflix. I'm gonna watch it. Do you have an account? Well, I share it with like 20 people, but I'm gonna watch it. I'm gonna get your number from Sean. Okay, good. And I'm gonna text Aaron from Kimmel what I got about it. I was gonna say, you might be texting Aaron. And I'm gonna be honest. Now, Kerry, where are you right now? Are you home or are you traveling? Are you on location somewhere? I'm not home. I'm on location. Cause I'm doing... We're doing a new YouTube series at my company. Really? Called The Street You Grew Up On. And it's something I started in pandemic because my production company is named after the street that my mother grew up on in the Bronx, Simpson Street. And when we were kids, we used to hear all these stories about all the shenanigans that went on in Simpson Street. So I feel like that's my once upon a time. My grandparents came to the States through Ellis Island. They immigrated from the Caribbean and they lived in the Bronx. And Simpson Street was like, you know, where it all started, where the dreams began. So I want to... I interview people that I really like and respect and admire other than the three of you. And about the street. How do you have room after the three of us? You know what I mean? So yeah, and I asked them questions about the street they grew up on and what their childhoods were like. The playin' idea. That's really cool. It's fun. So we're doing a bunch of them today. You know what I always wanted to do, but you can, by the way, you can have this idea if you want. Eat an entire carton of ice cream by yourself and then do it again right after? Yeah. And? Yes, and? It's like similar to that idea, which is go visit with a celebrity the places they lived before they made it, right? So like go back to their apartment and knock on the door and interview the family that lived there, that lives there now and kind of swap stories about how you lived when you were there. And I think that'd be really cool. All the apartments and whatever. I have a dream about maybe next season going to some of the locations with our guests. The stories are incredible. It's really... But think about the stories you'd get from the people that lived there. Yeah, the people that live there now. You're like our next Barbara Walters. Isn't that? Wait, so the first question that I ask everybody is to learn the name of the street that they grew up on. I asked their porn name. So I want to know the name of your first pet and the street you grew up on. So can I, I want to ask you three, your porn names. Not your actual porn names that you have used in the past. Right, right. Because I know you have those. So it's Pat's first name and the street you lived on. Your first pet. First pet for me was a little bird that was a cinnamon color. And so he was called Cine, or she was. So, and then the first street was Emerson. Cine Emerson. There you go. I like that. That's kind of cute. Sweet little Cine Emerson. That's my middle name. Emerson's my middle name. Cine Emerson receives a lot in these horns. Not a lot of giving. Mostly catching. She's good at it. Yep. Catches bird flu. Real passing. Will, what about you? We had a cat, well, cat's name. You don't have to explain the story. Just what's the name of your first pet on the screen. You got to talk about the stupid fucking bird. And receiving and catching up. You guys are like my kids. He got to do it. It's, it would be Minu Edgar. Minu Edgar. Now Minu Edgar is giving a lot of pain on these horns. Cine sees Mino coming and just starts running. What about you? What about you? Mine's Josh Valley. Josh Valley. What kind of animals named Josh? Josh? Well, your pet's name was Josh. My dog's name was Josh and I lived on Valley Avenue. Your dog's name was Josh. Why did you name your dog Josh? I didn't name it. My dad did. This guy. Now, Carrie, what was yours? Mine. The best was that I interviewed my mom for the series and I was like, you didn't have any pets, mom, did you? And she said, no, no, we did. We did. We had a cat named big boy. So my mom's, my mother's poor name is big boy Simpson. That's fantastic. The city just exploded. Yeah, yeah. I had a hamster's named Trick and Treat and I grew up on Pugsley Avenue. So I'm Trick and Treat Pugsley. Also very active. Trick and Treat Pugs is. Yeah, yeah. Wow, that's so cool. I love that. And that's how you launch into the series. We start each episode. That's great. I love that. So in a perfect balance, then how often are you working? How often are you home? How often do you like to be bored throughout the year? Cause I think boredom is the route to relaxation. If you can try to find. I think you're right. So I'm not very relaxed these days cause I haven't been very bored. This is the main theme of my therapy these days is figuring out how to schedule more open creative time. Cause I am a doer. Like I really like to be busy and I like to accomplish things and feel like I'm being productive and useful in the world. But I also really, really love my family and spending time with them and being able to read a book on the beach. I'm with the reading the book on the beach team. I do. Yes, thank you. I do. I'm with that. That's the worst. Or even listen an audio book. Sean, what if you were in like in a nice cabana, right? So we got, we got nice breathable fabric around three sides of you. We've got a nice roof over the top. We've got some sort of a frosty drink. You're in Bermuda shorts and a Hawaiian shirt. I'm gonna be thinking, I know what you're asking. Could I read a book then? Yeah. And you got a nice fan on you. Maybe there's even a portable TV. The fan that has the mist. Believe me, Sean's never met a fan he didn't like. Okay. Sean, that would work, right? Well, let me, I'm gonna ask you the same question. You know that, but it probably wouldn't because I'd be distracted by the beauty and the breeze and I'd wanna like go do something. Not sit. You can't sit still. But here's the other thing. But it's not the whole day. It's just like a section of the day where you get to disappear. Carrie, what you need to understand is Sean can't sit still and not fidget like and do that and read a book in countries. Anywhere. However, I have been with him on a return 14 hours each way flight to LA to Istanbul where he played Candy Crush the entire fuck time. Yeah. I bet he's good at games like Lo-Fi. So he can just do. By the way, calling that a game is like fucking, you know, like calling a pamphlet. It's just like- Why don't you just rip the door open and jump out? Somewhere over the Atlantic. And just like, how could I still be engaged with this eight hours in? I'll never forget that flight too because they fed us 80,000 pounds of food. Like you just did not stop serving food. Were you guys sitting up front? I remember, I remember us eating. I'm sorry. I remember sleeping like for like six hours at one point and then waking up and being like, Oh man, I really, I'm looking and Sean's got it same position. Do the do the do the do the do the do the do the do the do the. Is that your meditation is candy crush your meditation? I get to check out and like I love that. Yeah. That's what I'm addicted to is like the solace of that. Well, they work hard on that. They work hard on all those games to control your brain. I know. By the way, they can have it and right? Oh my God, don't worry. Yeah. Turns out they claim there wasn't much to grab. They took what they could. They really candy crushed my brain. All right, so listen, we're going to let you go soon, I promise, but I want you to talk about the Prophecy podcast. What is it? Because it sounds amazing. You're starring in it. You're EP on it. And it stars Lawrence Fishburne, Daniel Day-Kim, and David Oyeloa. Oh, yeah. I want to, yes. So I also want to thank so many of the, a lot of the folks that I work with wanted me to do this podcast. Even more than I want. I mean, I really, I'm such a Uber fan, but there's a guy on my team named Will, who was like, we have a podcast coming out, Prophecy. So you, yeah, it's a bad name. He sounds cool. He sounds brilliant. Will was like, because we're doing a podcast, we have to be on the best podcast. So that is part of why I'm so happy to be talking to you guys. So Prophecy is, it's a narrative podcast on Audible. It's a really cool concept. The concept is like, what if the Bible wasn't a document about things that people thought happened in the past, but what if it was a prophetic document about things that were going to happen in the future? And so I play this woman, this scientist, who winds up being pregnant. And I don't know how, because my husband can't impregnate me. We know that. And my name is Virginia Marylin. So like Virgin Mary. And there's a scientist named Jonah, who gets in a situation with a whale and stays alive for three days. And there's a guy named Daniel, who's a zoologist, who ends up in a lion's den and they don't kill him. And it's kind of like these biblical happenings are popping up and what does it mean? And how do we deal with it? It's very cool. It's a great idea. Like sci-fi, very loved that. And has that yet been optioned? We, well, a part of why I wanted to, I'm in this deal with Audible to create podcasts in the narrative space. And I feel like it's a really good way to test out story and figure out, is this limited? Is it a film? I think this one is a film. Sounds like a great show. Are you kidding? Yeah, it's cool. It's a great idea then to like maybe if it goes well, make it an actual series. Yeah, yeah, or a film. I think it might be a trilogy of films. That's really cool. I'm not sure. I would watch that. Yeah, I would watch it too. I let me look at my schedule. What are you, how long is the shoot? Start, start. Oh, oh, do you want to be in it? Yeah, how do you feel about so taping, Will? I want to be fucking number, Carrie, you were talking about number ones. And I'm like, what is she working towards here? What is she trying? And I'm like, oh, here it comes. Oh, there it comes. Here comes the pitch. The number one. Then she pitches the show. It could be a movie actually. And then she looks right at me and I'm like, here we go. All right. So tell me, I'll tell you what, do you know him at CAA? Launch some numbers our way. Let me look at the schedule. Do you have something to react to? Let me see if you have something. We'll fit it around your golf. We'll just match it around your golf. Yeah, that's true. That's a good point. Carrie Washington, you know how much I love you. You got the email. I love you so much. You guys are amazing. Incredible. I'm a massive, massive fan as you are. Can I just say, I want to say as somebody who like, this is what we do all the time. We have to talk to people and we do these interviews. It's so real. I can tell every time I listen that people are, they don't want to get off with you. They're like, they love these interviews. It's a good time. People have not wanted to get off with Jason for a long time. Oh no! Oh my God! She did it! That was perfect. She's so fine. She's so fine. So good. No one has ever self-fied before. That was great. Carrie Washington DC. Carrie Washington. Oh, she had the full district of Columbia. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's Carrie Washington District of Columbia. Not a lot of people know that. So, she's a dream. Carrie Washington would actually be the great name for a, just like a detective series. Carrie Washington, like that's name. That's the name of her character. Well, no, no, no, no, but you'd spell it C-A-R-R-Y because trying to like keep watching. Like she's carrying a lot. She's carrying up. Yeah, she's gotta carry one. Oh my gosh. By the way, let's pitch her. Get her back on. Can you call her back? Yeah, we'll call. Well, Shawn doesn't have her number, but. Email her, Shawn. Isn't that the dumbest story? Shawn, that story is so fucking, it's so good. I mean, it's so embarrassing. It's so unbranded for you. By the way, you just made the leap. I love that Aaron was on the other end of that. Yeah, and that Aaron, Aaron's the other person. And obviously Aaron knows the story. I think I told her, yeah, yeah, Aaron Irwin, who's the best. So good, the best. Wait a minute, what about how great she is? And she's so delightful and so smart and so gorgeous and so talented and so real and normal. I know I said that about every guest of ours, but like I can't stop. That's the thing when you're surprised to me, because we know there's a lot of people in this business and Washington and a lot of other businesses, whatever, that you never get like the real them and that's the real her. I sat with, so at that dinner, we talked about that cast dinner, Jay, when you're like, what dinner did you have? When you were literally sat across from Carrie. It came back to me eventually. We were Jimmy's. But we were at Kimmel's and I didn't know her at all, but she was producing that thing that we've all done. And I had the same reaction. I was like, man, she is so cool and comfortable with who she is and her own skin and so real. And you just had the sense that you were getting this genuine person. And she was a delight. We laughed a ton. She was great. Yeah, she's... Except she lied about watching them. She's a dirty liar. She admitted it. She's a dirty liar. Maybe she should do an arc on dirty no liars, all right? She's also really funny. She should do more comedy. She's so funny. Why are we so surprised every time we meet somebody nice and normal in this business? Yeah, because we know too many of the others. But maybe, maybe that's just a vestige of what this business was. Well, it's not just the business, it's just in life. It's the fact that there are actually a lot of really nice, normal people in this business now. Yeah. I don't know if it's a thing. It's not necessarily... I never mean the business. I just mean the life. Or the salt of it, but it's maybe, maybe it is. There are bad people, because maybe it's just a bye product. Bye product, bye. I didn't even see it coming, Will. I didn't even see it coming. Bye product, bye product, bye product. Smart. Loss. Smart. Loss. 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