4.15. Live from Boston 2026!

Okay, you've listened to the pod, which I'm assuming you do, because you came here. You know that we always kind of argue over who's leading, but guess what? Today it's me. It's you. So what's up everybody? It's a brand new episode of Nobody Asked Us with Justin Carro presented by Brooks Running, coming at you live from Boston. Well done. I love you. You guys are very proud of you. You guys are into this. We might get cocky with these mics. How are you doing, Kara Goucher? I'm great. You doing great? You got a little travel in. Yeah, easy travel. I actually just came in today. So what was, what kept you behind? Well, I have a child and he was supposed to have a track meet yesterday, but it actually got switched to Thursday because we had a snowstorm yesterday. It's fine. He got to run and we got, I know everybody's like, ooh boo with the snow, but listen, if you're from Colorado, you know that we needed that snow. So it was actually totally fine. It didn't mess up my flight or anything like that. And I got to see him run and I got to see the snow and now I'm here. And it's just the start of a big weekend. Obviously we have this pod. We have a group run tomorrow, but you've got some, some big duties this weekend beyond just cheering for athletes and watching races. Want to give us a little intel? Big duties. I am 14. I know. I was like duties. Well, I'm going to be a part of the future run program. So run with some high school age kids tomorrow and then I work for the world feed here. So I'll be calling the marathon for all non English. No, all English speaking countries. Well, this is a fire. I'm calling the marathon for all English speaking countries outside of the United States. So it's kind of funny on the world feed. We get like no love in the US cause no one hears us, but we actually are listened to by a lot more people. Fire up your VPN. Yeah. I mean, you can find it if you want it, but it is kind of tricky. But last year, the cool thing about working for the world feed is we don't have commercials. We don't have packages that we have to throw to. So it becomes like this really hardcore in depth. And last year, we also have control over cameras. Last year, we got to see you come in your entire rundown boilstin and story tell and it was awesome. So it's actually really fun. It was really cool. That was really special. I got to see the clip afterwards. I believe it's on your social, which was pretty neat to just like have both of us in a clip that was racing in different ways. And that was, that was pretty sweet. But also I remember being on course and like, why the f is this camera following me? I'm in the like by myself. Turns out that was me going, go back to dance. Go back to dance. Go bugger. Go bugger. Throw something at her. You're like, damn it, Kara. Exactly. Okay. Well, actually we all want to know how your body is doing. That's what we want to know, right? They cheer because they know I'm in pain and just like, she looks like she's hurting up there. No, I'm doing, I'm doing all right. Yeah. I've been some running the last couple of days, did a little shake out today with some strides. Got it turned over. My goal is to come in and help Ryan achieve his goals. And today he was doing three by two minute pickups at pace and I just sat on him. So he's going to be pacing you. It doesn't go well, but it did help me feel a little bit better and every day has been like significantly better. Also I got a massage the other day. Yeah. I did regular list. I was like, well, no, this is a big deal. Yeah. There's like a handful of people who I do really trust with massage and that's my big thing is probably just trust issues. And then the massage is like a different thing, but when you pair them together, so there's like two people in Boston that I'm like, it's crazy because they work at the same place at the same time. So I don't even get to see both of them. It's just like she's free. So I'll go to her. But yeah, I went and saw Mary. Did you ever go to Mary? No, but I'm dying to know what it's like when you're on the massage table. Are you in so much pain? No, no, no, I'm not, I'm not bad. My adductors the last couple of days were wrecked and that was combination of all the things carrying the bag. Yep. The hundred K being like really far. A lot of sand, just a lot of rock, a lot of uphill climbs. Yeah. And so, and then I actually think what one of the harder parts was the rest day. I was like, I probably should do a shakeout, but that's insane. And then we were in these like little tents of eight people. So there's not like, you were just, one of the luxury things that I thought about immediately was like, if I didn't have to worry about all this weight, I would bring a chair. Cause like my, like just, you're just sitting on the ground doing everything. And it was just like, I'm like getting tight. Was your back sore from the backpack? My back is still sore. Yeah. Yeah. Like the massage therapist was like, I won't touch that yet. She's like, come back in a couple of days. And I was like, that's fine. So I went for one massage. Yeah. Yeah. But still that's progress. We're not going to go into all that because that's, we're, we're on to Boston now. We're on to Boston, but don't worry. I'm not going to let her skirt out of this. Okay. We are going to talk about MDS at some point where we'll go into depth. She's going to have an awesome YouTube series on it or, you know, movie about it. And we'll all watch that. And then we'll get even deeper, but like that massage, just like another layer, we're going to get in there and we are going to go to the back. We're going to get those nuts. But we're not going to do that tonight because tonight we are excited to be in Boston. That's right. I love that. All right. Well, let's, I think we should just, do you want to dive right into the racing? Because I think that's fresh on your mind. I'm not going to put you to the test completely. Um, cause I know studying needs to be fresh and you need to know exactly what's going on in the moment. So it's like, you learn stuff and then you're like, I need to forget that because it doesn't matter anymore. So we'll let you be fresh for race day. But I do think the American side is absolutely fascinating and we're both well versed on that just without studying at all. We kind of seen it, seen him develop throughout the season in the spring and half marathons and so on and so forth. So, um, let's start there. Do you want to start men or women? Let's start with the women. All right. So I was telling you backstage and I've said this on a couple of broadcasting calls in the last couple of weeks. This feels a little 2018 to me, which is that in 2018, I don't know, someone won. But the thing about it was that all of the heavy hitting American women were there. Everyone was there. I wasn't, I was injured and I think Sarah Hall was injured and I think Jordan has a day pulled out like the day before, but literally every other American marathon or female was in that field. And that's, this is when I used to blog. I used to have a blog. Love that. I know. They're probably coming back. You should see if we can. Nah, I think it died. But I remember I blogged about it and I was like, this is what it takes to get an American not only on the podium, but to win. And I'm feeling that way a little bit this year. I think that the international field is super, super good. But because there's so many great American women, I feel like that's kind of what it takes. It's like, first of all, as you and I have experienced, there's a lot of pressure for an American to win here. And when you're the one American heavy hitter, there's so much pressure that you take on. We love Boston. We love the city, but we feel that pressure. So the pressure is sort of like dissipated amongst a lot of other women. And then, and then it's like, you see someone doing well and you're like, well, I can run with her. And it's just like strength in numbers. So I just feel really, really good about the American women getting someone on the podium. I agree. We're seeing a lot of experience here from past athletes who've come back a couple years now. And then you have the young up and conners who have learned the distance well enough, like the Fiona, I'm thinking atop of mind, Vestri now. Like she's got one under her belt on a tough course. And so there's a good mix of people who have Boston experience and then people who are just really savvy at the marathon. Cyssin is another one who's, you know, she's clearly knows what she's doing at the distance, but she's just never been on this course. So I think you're right in that there is a lot of players here who have a lot of different skill sets and they'll probably push each other in different ways throughout the race. And it is that thing where it's like, I can't respond in this moment, but I know I can run with her. So I just need to be patient and it's going to come back to me. And once I get there, like, oh, this is what I thrive at. So that's going to be interesting to see how it balances out throughout the day. And like, who has their moments when. And I also think we're enough away from the Olympic trials where this is an opportunity for athletes male or female to really just kind of like go for it, go big, because there's plenty of time to recover. There's plenty of time to learn from it. And even though all the athletes want to like stamp their name of like, I'm the new favorite heading into the Olympic trials, there's still enough distance where they'll have another chance to run another marathon if it goes wrong. So I just, I just feel like there's going to be big swings. I'm not saying American women are going to run away with the whole thing because it's an amazing field. Boston always assembles a great field. It's always super good. But I just have this feeling of like, I mean, like 2018, I was so confident an American woman was going to win. And it was so cool that it was you. And we'll talk about that a little bit later, but I have that feeling of like the strength and numbers and experience and the depth of them and like something good could happen. Yeah, it's definitely a numbers game. And you look at the field and there's just a solid group of US women that are right in that top of that list. And then you kind of go through like every start list ever, you're like, OK, well, these are on paper really great. Where'd they run that? It was in Rotterdam. It was in Berlin. It was in whatever flat course you can name. And that doesn't necessarily translate immediately to Boston. And then you go, OK, there's six women really who've got the skill set or proven the skill set on this type of course of those six who's healthy. Someone's going to have a bad day. Someone's going to race silly. And then all of a sudden it just becomes thinner and thinner. It doesn't always pan out that way. But a lot of times that's kind of how you break it down and look at the field and go like, yeah, there's a very realistic shot that, you know, we make up 50 percent of this top 20 of the field. So there's good things that can happen if we're just numbers in the front for a long time. This this turned into like an argument on a call I was on. Like, do you think that I mean, it's happened. But do you think that you need to have been to Boston before to win? Like, do you think you need the experience of having run here and been and seen the intricacies and like survived it and felt it to know how to win it? Or do you think you can go in and just be in super great shape and have run a good New York and still crush it? I think in the past experience was really, really helpful. And I think it was like, how do you manage the downhills? Like your legs are going to be beat up that last 10 K, no matter what. And then you're going downhill again. I think it's different with shoe technology. And I think that's changed the game. And I know people are like, stop talking about the shoot. But it's like, but it's just very different. And I think we have to be realistic about that. And I think of the perfect example. I was on the truck in New York and I was like, experience is going to favor these people. Like the people who have done it. They felt those last six miles in Central Park. It's hard. And granted, it's not apples to apples New York to Boston, but they're similar in terms of difficult courses. And then I watched La Ketti win in her debut. And I was like, I know nothing. So I, I will take the time to say like, normally I would be like, yes, I think you have to have experience here. It always helps. It's better. I do think it will play a factor for people who maybe don't have that edge. Like if you can be a savvier racer, smarter racer, make better decisions, know the course, use it to your advantage. Then if it's close and that's your edge, like that might push you over, but sometimes it just translate like a, like if Safon Hassan was here, I'd be like, no, like she could probably just win it without experience. Well, she made us eat humble pies. So I'm always trying to, she's a thorn in our side. Yeah. Um, one thing that's been interesting from being in the broadcast booths the last five years is that the women's race has really progressed to me as it's just become more aggressive. It's become aggressive earlier on. There's, there's usually a lot of moves being made through the hills. Whereas before I feel like, yeah, there'd be a few people that would press the first part. Everyone kind of worked the hills, but then they like really just hammered the last 10 K, but it seems like there's hammering the last 10 K while also throwing in surges throughout the entire marathon. Do you think the absence of a beer changes that this year? I mean, I know the Keti is such a factor and she's always in there, but for some reason I feel like she doesn't get the respect that Helen O'Berry does. The field makes the moves because they need to shake Helen. Is that going to change this year? Or do, does the field make the moves because they need to shake? Look, Keti, or does she not get that respect? I, that's such a good question. I actually do not think that she gets the respect. And I do think that it'll be a little bit more conservative than we saw the last two years because O'Berry isn't even though last year was a course record. And they were trying to drop O'Berry and L'Ochetti won. Do you think that is a benefit for L'Ochetti who obviously closed like a freight train last year? Or do you think it's like it is a mental task that all of a sudden she has to go and break things open? Well, I think it is interesting because she's kind of always not in O'Berry's shadow, but it's like her and O'Berry, her and O'Berry and O'Berry until, well, they both debuted in New York when L'Ochetti won and O'Berry was fourth or fifth. Yeah. But didn't O'Berry like figured it out in one marathon because that's annoying. And then she just was like just untouchable, right? And then even at the Olympics, O'Berry was third and L'Ochetti was fourth. So O'Berry is always ahead of her. And so I feel like L'Ochetti doesn't necessarily get that respect. It's like the reason O'Berry is so good and has run so fast is because L'Ochetti's there. But remember last year, O'Ketti got her, you know? So hopefully she's coming in here with like just well, she's in great shape. I mean, New York half is faster than last year. And but it's overshadowed because O'Berry says the course record. It's like, you know, which it might just be the perfect thing for her because people are going to sleep on her, which is insane. Yeah. But I also wonder too, she's used to being pushed the entire marathon. Yeah. So if it does grow out slower and more conservative this year, like, you know, some athletes can kick, they can only kick off of like a slow pace. And some athletes can just ride a line, but can't kick. And then some athletes can like ride a line and kick. So it's like, does she have all those skills? Right. Well, and we talked about this earlier. You have a woman who's ran one or four and a half recently, which is like just another level. It's ridiculous. Like that's insane. My brain's like, did you burp? It can't. Yeah. It cannot figure that one out. So if it's slow, it's like, OK, this woman's insane. Right. How long do you wait? She can run one or four and a half. I mean, one or seven in the back half. Is that going to be enough to break her? Like how fast could she run the second half, which is a crazy question. But it would be smart for her because she's only run one marathon. It was fast, but it was a flat course. It'd be smart for her to wait and not try to like drive away from Leketi early on, because I think then otherwise she might be like seeing Jesus in the last 10 K. But that's why they run the race and I'm so excited. It's going to be awesome. What do you think on the American side is going to happen? What who are the people who are going to make the moves? I mean, we know Susanna Sullivan's in here. We always talk about her being an aggressor. Annie Frisbee was out crazy fast last year, just was not afraid of anything. Came back and had a really great New York as well. Fiona battled last year like it was no problem just mixing it up with the front group. Are they just content to sit or do you think that this group is like there is a 104 women, there is a Leketi. Like we have to make this thing aggressive. There's a nice tailwind predicted. The weather is going to be good. Do you think there's any patients on the American side or is this like we have to bust this thing open? I don't know if they'll be like hammering it, trying to break it open. But I do think it'll be them in the front for a long time. I think Susanna Sullivan likes to run from the front. And I think when she was fourth at World Champs this year, it was like, oh yeah, no, I belong here. I deserve to be here. I think Fiona Keefe is fearless. And I think I like that you pointed out Annie Frisbee because she kind of had a breakout run at Boston last year and it's only she's only gotten better. She had like a great half at Grammys. She was right. Well, she broke the American course record in New York, but Fiona was ahead of her. But she got fifth in New York. So I just feel like, I don't know, I just feel like this is kind of one of those magical moments where the American women are like coming, coming, coming. And I think they're going to be aggressive as far as like positioning. How do you feel like Jess McClain slots in? She's been such a like patient, smart racer and kind of doing her own thing. And like last year, you know, caught up to Frisbee late in running her own race and was able to run by her. Um, I think benefited a lot from Susanna pushing the pace and having the group have to chase them down at the world championships and was able to just be out of front or catch people who are fading off of that hot pace, that chase pace. Uh, do you think this is a time where we see her take a bigger risk? Or is it like, let's just stick to my guns. I've gotten a little better fitness wise. Obviously the half in Atlanta, she looked great. Didn't get the result that she deserved, but obviously had the performance that indicated she's in great shape. Like, what do you, what do you think? If you're Jess, what are you doing? How are you racing? Do you make any changes? I was like, I haven't listened to her interviews from the press conference yet, so I don't know what she's thinking. Don't put me on the spot. But if I were her, this would be the one where I take a risk because it's, it's the perfect timing. She has experience. She knows the course. She was charging last year down those last three miles or so four miles. And she's just like outside of the cusp of like being in it. You know, and I think, you know, I talked to her a little, or maybe I read an interview after World Champs where she wished she had been a little bit more aggressive when Susanna was aggressive. So if I was her, I'd be like, you know what? I'm in great shape. I know this course. I just ran an incredible half and I'm ready to go. And I'm going to put myself in it and see what happens. I love that. I'll let her know. Yes. We'll run that by her. I think another interesting name that we don't hear enough or haven't heard enough of yet that we will hear a lot about afterwards is Amanda Vestrie, who ran great in New York in her debut, went in a little undercooked, a little dinged up and had an awesome debut on that course. It sounds like she's fitter than ever. And I think again, like you pair her with Susanna Sullivan and Jess McClain, because they know each other. They've trained with each other, not as teammates, but like as Brooks teammates and mixed it up at camps and so on and so forth. I think that she's going to just have so much confidence sticking in that group for a really long time and have like a breakout performance. Any thoughts on her? Yeah, I think so too. She's following the same pattern I did, which was I debuted in New York and then came and ran Boston six months later. And I, you know, when someone is coming to Boston for the first time, you kind of get nervous, but coming from New York, I'm not really that nervous for her. I feel like she knows how to run a hard marathon. That's just a grind. And I, you know what I like about her is she just like really wants it. Yes. You know, like she really wants it. And you have to have that mentality of like, Oh, I'm willing to go there. And I feel like she has that. And so I'm, I'm excited to see how she does. I think she's going to run really well. And I think she's going to be one of those names that as we get closer to the trials is just like constantly in the conversation. Yeah, I do think she's really like lining herself up for that long game wise. It seems like the strategic decisions, setting her up for a really good run at the trials. Um, and it's going to be interesting to see what new names run into the marathon as we kind of progress through. There'll be some name that we haven't said yet. A hundred percent. That'll come up. You don't want to accidentally almost get something down the wrong pipe. I'm so nervous for you. I just saved that. I was just like, I keep talking, maybe it'll go away. But I had to leave you on the stage for a minute. You're a woman of many talents. You know, she recovered from that so quickly. Okay. Well, anything else about the American women? I just think it's going to be a great day. I think it will too. And I think, um, obviously we're biased with the, the Brooks athletes, the Brooks women go to YouTube and check out that Brooks running video that they did on the, the four women Erica, unfortunately will not be competing, but she's in that as well in her stories. Incredible. Um, and she will come back stronger than ever. No doubt about it. But I think that video is worth watching. It's really cool. And I'm also in it. So yeah, watch that video. Brooks team is really strong. The entire Olympic team is in it. It's just, it's an incredible field. It's, it's just exciting as like a person who loves this marathon so much. Like there's some years where it's heavy and some years where it's not. And it just feels like, oh, okay, we're going for it this year. Yeah. Definitely a stacked field. All right, let's switch over to the men's field. How are you feeling about that? What's exciting you? What's boring you? Give me, give me your thoughts. I can't tell you what's boring me. Um, well, I do feel like the, on the men's side, the international field is a little bit deeper than on the women's side. Um, but I'm excited about the American men because I think we're starting to see the storylines leading into the Olympic trials because we have some newish folks. We have some returning folks. And I just feel like we're going to get a lot of information about like who we're going to be following really closely. It just feels so much different than the last trials where it was like, what's going on with the men? No one can run this time. What's happened to us? Distance running like what, like, I'm on the TV trying to be like, so they've unlocked the spots, but there are not allowed to have them at the third spot. Has it been unlocked? But hopefully it will, but we won't know for three months. And I was just like, crazy. My eyes crossed. But that's the American men have stepped it up. It really feels like there's going to be no problem with that. And that team is going to be one of the toughest teams to make across the distances. Really. Yeah. And I think we're going to get a lot of information on Monday. You have sort of like new folks like Joe Clecker, who's coming after running in New York, you have Ryan Ford, who's changed training groups. You have Charles Hicks. You have Clayton Young, who has a lot of really good experience. Talby, who's going, he can't represent the US yet, but he is an American citizen. He'll be able to next year who just won the Houston marathon. I know I'm forgetting like 10 people. Okay. It's all right. Um, yeah. What do you think about that Houston turnaround? Do you think it's too quick? Do you think, um, it's not wise for a long game planning? Do you think it's just, let's go after it? Who cares? I just feel like, yeah, as we said earlier, the game has just changed with shoes. And I think it's Houston. He ran really well there and he was in control, but you know, it's not necessarily, it's a fast course. So I don't know how much he like went to the well, but it seemed like he's rebounded from it really well and I think he's gonna be fine. Yeah. He looked to get it the nearer calf. I think we have, we have to mention obviously the absence of Connor Mance. There's a huge opportunity. Here's a question for you. What do you feel about getting excited about top American? Is that something we should be thinking about? Or is it like, no, we're thinking about podiums. We're thinking about top five. And yeah, the Americans should be doing that. We shouldn't be doing top American raw just because. Well, we poo pooed that before, but, um, I actually think it's, it's important at this one because we're, you know, Connor Mance is a bulldog, right? He's going to go out, he's going to grab onto the pace and he's just gonna, as long as he can. That's like a Chihuahua. You just do this. It should be a little more aggressive. Er, sorry, Connor. He's not a very big human. That's true. Maybe he is more like a Chihuahua. Um, I didn't mean that mean he's like the nicest human. Yeah. But I think like a lot of people could sort of, they knew what was going to happen with Connor, right? And then they could kind of like think, okay, well, I want to have him on my sites or I know he's going to go at this, like he's going to go with it. And then I can kind of like see him and then guess what's too fast for me or whatever. Now he's gone. Yeah. So people have to really run their own races. And I, that's just interesting to me. Like, like we think of someone like Clayton young, who is so successful, but aside from the world champs marathon, I think most of his marathons, Connor's been there and they trained together and they know what to expect. And now he's coming in here without him, right? So I think it just changes the dynamic of the race. I think it's a little bit of a mental barrier for a lot of folks where it's like, we defer to you, right? Like that's reserved for Connor and then everyone else runs back here. So it'll be interesting. And I don't think that this group would necessarily do that. I think that there's enough guys who are super fit and hungry that they're like, no, I want to crush him. Um, and along with everyone else, right? But I do think it is interesting to, to take that element out completely and see if there's that breakthrough without that benchmark of like, oh, I'm comparing myself to the top Americans. Like, no, you're racing the field. Do you think it makes it, um, like less? Do you think that it opens up their mind to more possibility because sometimes they count him out or they're like, I am not at his level. He just ran the American record and, but now he's not there. So they're like, well, it could be me. I think so. Yeah. I mean, I think we talked a little bit about Clayton's workout videos and sometimes you see him just like Connor's not overrunning it, but he's like, the prescribed thing is here and he's just like, no, I'm not doing that. I'm doing this. Oh no, he never runs the work. Right. Never. And then Clayton's like, right. He's like, I'm doing the thing, but that has to break you down at a certain point. And then, you know, there was, I feel like there was a segment where like Connor was injured and all of a sudden Clayton was like, I'm having like the best workouts of my life. And you're like, I wonder what's changed. And so you wonder if like maybe that's like, it's a little mental barrier for him without Connor in the race. It's like, instead of gauging off of this one guy, it's like, you just get in there and race and all of a sudden it's an unlock where you're like, oh, like, I'm actually, I've been helped back by this a little bit. Yeah. No, I can definitely see that. I think it'll be interesting to see who like really goes with it. Like Alex mayors in there too. And this will be his second marathon. He's insanely fit. I think you, yeah. Didn't you run like the New York or the Houston half over a minute faster than last year? So I, I just think there's a lot of guys that are ready to prove that they belong. Um, like, Klecker coming back from New York wanting to really tighten that up. Charles Ficks had a great debut there. You know, Clayton wanting to show like, sorry guys, I'm the one that went to the Olympics. I'm the one that, yeah, I'm the guy. Yeah. So I just think it's going to be really interesting. I, you know, I don't know about a podium. It's just sort of a, the, the men's field is so good. It's not that they can't. Yeah. There's just, I don't feel it as much as I do for the women. And do you think, don't hate me. Do you think that there's, I guess I haven't looked as closely in the international depth, but do you think that there's an aggressor? I feel like there's been this switch in men's and women's racing where the women used to kind of like feel each other out is a little bit more strategic and then go late and then the men were just like, now we want a fast time. Yeah. And then now it's like, it seems like there's been a switch. Do you think there's an aggressor? I mean, obviously we saw John career in Chicago go bananas. Didn't work out though. So like, does that get rained in or do you, I mean, if the conditions are what they're predicted to be with the tailwind, could you see these guys just going from the gun or is it still, this is Boston. We're just racing. We don't care about the clock. No, I could see it being pretty fast, especially career is like very confident. Right. He won here last year. Yeah. The thing happened in Chicago, which was bad, but then didn't you go in Valencia or something? So he's super confident. This is interesting that I never knew. Hopefully she won't be mad. I was on a call with Mary Kate Shea who puts together the fields and she's like, we love to have a debutante every year who is coming from the track who's really fast because they tend to go out and be a little bit more aggressive because it feels so slow for them. So there is a guy in the field who this will be his first and he's was on like the Paris Olympic team on the track. So he's really fast. Um, I do see the men's race being pretty aggressive just because it's like, it's just leveled up. And then that's where the American men have to sort of make this choice of if they're going to try to run 203, am I ready to do that? Or am I going to, you know, I don't know where they are. Yeah. Yeah. Do you see anyone making that a leap to 203? Yeah. From the American side? Yeah. I mean, I want to be an asshole, but no, that's totally fair. I mean, that's actually an incredible. Yeah. Fast time. Yeah. There's other, there's people that I believe are capable of that, but this is the thing about the marathon. And honestly, this is like what I'm always telling my son, it's like, I know you can do this or you know, you can run this, but like you have to make the step to get there. So I think there's two or three American men that are capable of that, but the next step would be 206 or 205. And then the next step, you know what I mean? Right. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think it's interesting. I do think that the, the weather adds an element where it's like, maybe that is equivalent. You know, to, to the 206 or the 205, but you just don't know until you're out there and you're, and you're racing. So that'll be interesting to see. Um, what about we got Colin Benny and CJ Albertson coming back, both experienced here, both have been top American on this course. How they, how they look in, what do you think? Um, are they going to mix it up? Are we going to see CJ out early? Did you watch CJ's go bag video? No. Oh my gosh. You have to watch that. Okay. Well, give me the deep. He just like pulls out, um, homemade sunscreen, homemade toothpaste, homemade deodorant. Nothing about this is surprising. Yeah. It's like in little zip lock bags, it's like white, white powdery. It's not powder. It's like a gel in little zip. He has like a bunch of them and he's like, I don't like, I'm nervous for drug testing. So I make my own stuff. I'm like, that looks like, that looks scarier. Like, yeah, that's insane. That didn't get flagged at TSA. Good for him. Right. I think that CJ Albertson is one of the most consistent Boston marathon runners. Like he's never had a bad day here. I was doing some research today and I think like he's run 209 45 and 211 44 and everything has been in between that. So he never has a bad day here. So I would, I would say. Yeah, he could be, he could be up there. Solid. Yeah. He always has a good day and if the weather's right and if he feels good and then Colin, Benny also seems to have like really solid boss and marathon runs. Yeah. I think, I mean, I think in with Clayton as well, like he's just been stuck at seventh, seventh, seventh and like sometimes you need that consistency before that breakthrough happens. So I think they're all in position where it's like very solid, very consistent. You know what to expect, but like if the conditions are right in the racing is, you know, just happening instead of like looking at the watch and trying to just hit pace, um, you could see any one of those three have that sort of breakthrough day level up. Yeah. I was talking about the women. I think we're far enough away from the Olympic trials that like if, if someone does kind of go for broken, they end up broke. There's still time to like write that ship before as we're leading into the trial. So I can see some guys kind of like taking a risk and being a little more aggressive than they normally would be. What do you think the challenges are coming off of that? Like what's the mental toll? Well, that's the hard part. Right. If you go for it and you sink, it's physically it's like nothing. Mentally it's like, I thought I was here and now I'm way down there and I have to like dig my way back and, and, and it's just a mental game with your competitors too. Cause now they're like, Oh, they thought they were all that. They weren't, he's not the two or six guys. Not the two or four guys. I mean, I know when I was racing, it was like, Oh man, like, do I want to risk right now or do I want to protect my position because I know I'm not going to win, but I don't want to like blow up trying to get third and maybe get caught by so-and-so and then they're going to have that edge. Deslinden at world champs in 2009 is going to think she has something over me. So yeah, I think that like when it goes wrong, but that's why I think this is like the last chance to really do something like that for a lot of these athletes, because it's going to be so mentally strategic from this fall on. And what does that trajectory look like for the next like couple of years here? How like you start working back from the Olympic trials. What are you thinking in terms of like schedule building out? Is this the last, this is probably the last big, big swing we're taking or? I think like you can run a really great fall marathon and even spring next year to I just think you need to be really strategic. Like what am I doing? What am I trying to practice getting my time faster? So that scares everyone. Am I trying to show everybody I'm a really good championship style racer, which the Olympic trials will be? Like what skill do I need to work on so that when we line up in 2028 in March? Oh yeah, I thought you were going to say location. Yeah, I don't know where. I'm like that I have the most skills and that I've proven to everybody so that when I, you know, so that I feel confident and also they're fearful of me. Yeah. So it is like a game of chess. It'll be fun to watch those play out. And it's there's there's so many more players to keep an eye on in young guns. I think watching the young guns step into it early and really attack has been fascinating. I'm excited to see what Alex Meyer will do 25, I believe. Yeah, that's a pretty, I know he was just at Oak State like a few years ago. Yeah. Yeah. It's so different from when we did it. It was like, well, you're still doing it, whatever. But it was like you, you know, you would go have this track career and try to achieve as much as you could on the track. I think I ran my first marathon when I was 30 and like you just you were like, well, I'm no longer competitive on the track. Now I'll go to the roads. And so it's cool to see these younger athletes like Fiona Keith as well. Like these younger athletes just go and attack it and be like, I don't care. I'm not I don't need to follow your plan. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's definitely been a big shift. I think another shift that we've seen is this American dump like stacked fields in the Boston marathon in the spring. And then obviously Chicago and New York typically had a really good American contingent. But what do you think that the swing is in terms of getting more Americans to Boston? I feel like when we were racing, it was most people went to London. Like it took Dina a really long time in her career to get to her first Boston. Meb same thing with, you know, London. Ryan Hall debuted in London. It was like about that fast time. What do you think has changed? And do you think that you get the value out of Boston versus like, I need that quick time in London is the fastest thing out there. Yeah. I'm interested in what you think about this. But when I was running, I wanted to win a major so badly on home soil and it didn't happen. I was sort of Boston in New York, but that's what I wanted. And I kind of was like, my times will be broken, but like a title will never be taken away. And so when I came to Boston in 09, like no one was doing it. It was like so weird. You know, I mean, there was a few other athletes, but not like now. And then of course you joined me in 2011 and got second. And then there was some momentum like Chalane ran it a few years and stuff. But I just feel like the last three, four years, it's become a fixture for everybody. Like Dakota Popain comes all the time. Like it's just become this stop. And I think that if an athlete runs well in Boston, and this is like kind of businessy, but I think if you run well in Boston, it takes you so much further in opportunity than if you run well across the pond and no one sees it and they just see it later on Instagram. Yeah, I think that's fair. And I think that's again, it's very American specific. Obviously, if you're a Brit and you come here and do well, it's the same type of thing. But yeah, I mean, I do think it's just been an interesting switch and you're right. There is a business component to that. I think also just getting into the races has gotten a lot more difficult. Like for Americans to get into London is pretty tough. It is, but I think that Boston, I mean, London is a time trial, right? And there's a place for that and a time for that. But I think the history of Boston, the legacy of Boston, I think like the last two years, the women's race in Boston was way better than the race in London. Like, yeah, they ran faster in London, but the best marathoners in the world were here. They were here, you know? So I think there has been a shift of just like even the way people view it. Whereas before it was like, oh, Boston, you know, like I used to race with Polaracliff and we were friends and she'd be like, yeah, maybe someday, but London, London, London, which I get because she's from there, right? It's totally different. But I was like, no, it's awesome. You need to come. It's so hard. It's so good. So I love that there has been this shift and I think it removes some of the pressure to that American athletes feel when they race it. What was your highlights favorite part about racing here and how did they sell you on come to Boston versus London beyond just like the business side of it? Like, oh, I read the book, The Boston Marathon. The Boston Marathon. Has anyone read that? No. No. Guys, get it together. It has a synopsis of every single year. And I read it. Just the media guide. No. OK, just checking. Guys, it's a real book. OK. And it gets updated every five to seven years or so. And I read it and I could not put it down. And I was like, I want to be a part of this history. I want my name to be in here. And two years ago when I was here, someone, the author's wife gave me an updated book and I'm in the chapter for 2009. And I actually started crying. But that book, like, hooked me. I was like, there's nothing like this. And I mean, I'm not trying to like poo poo London because I'm sure it's awesome. But I was like this, I want to be a part of this. Like, I want people to look back and think and know that I was a part of it. What about you? What drew you to Boston? Yeah, I mean, it was a little bit of luck. I feel like it was the US championship the year I was debuting or needed to debut to get a trials qualifier. So it was like, oh, trials will be in Boston the following year. Let's go out and get the experience, see what the city is about, see what the race weekend's about, the whole thing before the trials. And then we were really big on course tours. So we came out, I want to say, maybe even twice beforehand, got on the course, met with the BAA and just the people were hard to believe because Massachusetts not known for their friendliness. So nice. I think it's just the driving. But yeah, so the people were incredible. You know, I was nobody in the running space and they just invited me in like I belonged and treated me like I could potentially be a champion one day, which was really cool because there was nothing that suggested that. But just to be included and thought of that way was really incredible. And it was people that, you know, after that, my career, I would see every year and it was like just genuine friendships. Did you work with Pat Lynch at all? I did. I loved that. OK, yeah, I was just going to say, shout out to Pat Lynch. He's no longer with us, but he had a huge at the event. He's not at the BAA anymore. Sorry, Pat. Oh, God. But he he was super influential to me because he like sat in the car and drove me around and like checked in on me and was like, I don't know, just he was incredibly influential on me. And so was Mary Kaye Shea, who is still there and also alive. Alive. Yeah. Well, then it was interesting because it was it was John Hancock and BAA at the time, so it was a very split thing. Yes. So I never met those folks until like 2000 after after I ran fast in 2009, they were like, oh, we'll treat you like you belong, which was super cool because it like it worked my way out. But the BAA was Jack Fleming, who's now the CEO in Gloria Raddy, who they is no longer with us appropriately. And they actually did the museum after her. But all the memorabilia, she collected it all. And I remember going through the BAA offices and being like, this is sick. Like this is the sport treated as a sport. Like the stories matter, the history matters, the memorabilia matters, the moments matter. And this is different than anything in running I had ever seen. So that was cool too. Okay. Well, let's just really quick flashback to 2018. And we we've already your book. We love the race. We'll watch it over and over again. We'll never stop talking about it, but just walk us through the realization that this was coming true, that you were going to win, that you were going to end this American female drought, that you know, you come onto Boylston Street, you're running in. Tell us like all the emotions and what you were thinking down that final straight away. Yeah, it's it's been a minute. I honestly was just running in fear because of that 2011 experience. And it was like, I was just in a very like strategy frame of mind for most of that home stretch. And I think it's like things you think back on and you're like, I wish I could have been in a different headspace or appreciated or celebrated or whatever. But I remember going into 2011 and being like, dude, when I break away, like this is how I'm going to celebrate. This is what I'm thinking about. And then being in a sprint finish and being like, I was like thinking about that stuff. Like I should have been preparing for a sprint finish. So it was the polar opposite in 18. It was like, OK, like I know if someone's running me down, they've been running super hard for a long time now because I broke away, you know, a couple of miles ago and that means they've been working harder. And I know I have pop left in my legs. I know where I'm going to make my move. I know when to push, how long I can push. I've run this home like all of the strategic things I've been thinking about since 11 were kind of going through my mind. And I never really thought I had it until Tom Grilke was like three cones from the finish line. And they always tell you, like, if you're if you're going to win, you stay on the right. If you're after that, you go to the left. You don't matter. Pretty much was it's a funny kind of a funny story. But there's a photo in 11 where Kalel's crossing the line and I like kind of veered to the left. And I think it was Jack Fleming. I was like, why did you go to the left? And I was like, like, because if you're not winning, you go to the left. But I didn't tell him that. I was like, I don't know. I was like getting out of a shot. And I was like, I later realized that that was like a full redirect, like for if you're really not close to winning at all. And so, yeah, I was allowed to run through when you're a second behind. Right. I was like, I don't know. I just thought we had to go the left. Like, didn't want to get dequeued. So, so yeah, I mean, it was like very clear. Like I was at that point, Tom, you know, Grilke is doing his like fist pump. And I was like, okay, that was the very first moment that I realized I was going to win. And honestly, it was a shock because it was so unexpected in that year, but also to have that 11 experience, all those lessons kind of come together and play into that race was really rewarding because it's like the suffering wasn't for nothing. Well, it's one of those moments where everyone's like, do you remember where you were in Des London one in 2018? Right. Like, do you guys all remember where you were when you either saw it or heard about it? It's like just so iconic. It's amazing. And we're never going to get tired of it. Sorry. That's okay. You're like, I wrote a book about it. Let's move on. I'm like, no, walk us through the home stretch again. No, it was epic. I remember that year. I remember just being not super confident. And I wouldn't if he texts, I got beforehand. It was the Twitter days you message and you're like, you got it this year. I just have this feeling. It's like, I don't think so, but it'll be fun. But it was really meaningful that people would reach out. And I think that there was some controversy in the sport at the time. And there was just things that we had already kind of connected on without even talking about. And I think about that as much as like the other side of it where everyone texts. And it's like, I knew it. I knew it was going to happen. Like, there's people who did and believed in ahead of time too. So that was cool. Always think about that. I believed in you. Okay. Do we want to wrap? We, we're going to open it up to a few questions. Is there anything else we want to say about Boston? Let's let's take questions. And then if anything comes up, we can have some final words instead of a top five. Oh, okay. How's that? Okay. Let's think on that. Yeah. Unless no one has questions. All right. We got some mics roaming around. If we don't get the question on the mic, people will slay us in the comments. So. Hi. I'm wondering why do you say, well, no, they're not going to win or no, they're not going to, or even in your heads. No, I'm not going to. I'm thinking like as a coach, you're always telling them shoot for the stars, you know, believe in yourself, like thinking about Clayton and you're saying, no, he's not going to win. I'm thinking, yes, he is. He's not maybe not winning, but he's going to podium for sure. I think so. Why do you say that? Why did you just say that? Why did I say that? I know, I know. Exactly. I mean, I think if you, I hope to be proven wrong, that would be amazing. But I think if I'm looking at the stats and using the logic and like if I were guiding these men in like how to take the next step forward and how to get ready to win and be in position to win in the future. Like I would say this is the smarter strategy. Like you should be shooting for podium. You should be shooting for top three. And then from there, now you're in the conversation and now you've built the confidence and then next time we go out and we break through into the next stage. But I just think on paper right now, the gap between the top tier and the American men is, it's a little too big at the moment. But again, I would love to be proven wrong. And I think anything can happen on race day, obviously, like whether conditions are going to matter, racing strategy is going to matter. And if it goes out super slow and there's 20 guys there at mile 22, then everything's different than the whole thing changes. So strategy will matter quite a bit as well. Yeah. I mean, I would say Boston is the ball of the marathon. It's the one where anything could happen. But I just comment it from like my commentators like brain of like stats. What have they been up to? What's been the last thing? And I can see when people are moving in their careers. And I think like that was Clayton the last year and a half moving, moving, moving. You know, he runs so well here last year, but there's still like another step. Right. And so and even when I was racing, I would like, you know, I don't know, I would just be like, I know I'm not going to win today. Like I can feel it. I'm already pressing too hard. So what, where do I stop the bleeding? What's the next goal? Like the Olympic trials in 2012, 2012, right? Yeah. I was like, I, I'm not going to make, I'm not going to win this race. And there's four of us left and only three of us are going. And I can just tell that she and Shalane have more pop in their legs. That doesn't mean I think they're better than me. It just means today I know that I'm not going to win this race. So what do I need to do now to make sure I'm in the top three that I can run as cleanly as possible? And where do I strategize? And for me, it was like, I went with you guys for like two miles just to break fourth place. And then I was like, and now I slow down and protect my position. So yeah, it is an interesting balance because there is a little bit of like survival in advance and that's like making a team. There is a little bit of like, yes, this race is super important, but what is the, what does my career look like? And I think it's kind of balancing that like, okay, this is a long game decision in a short term moment. And if you go and blow up trying to win the race when it's a little bit of a leap above, then it's like the recovery is longer, the mental side of it's tougher, and it just gets tougher and tougher to take those swings. So it's a timing thing of like, okay, I've bridged that gap, I've bridged that gap. Now I'm in position where I believe I can win and now we start, that's the goal. And you start chasing that and chasing that, but it's like patience. But like, I don't know, there's like a, trying to think of the word. It's like, you want to have a sense of urgency about it, but you also need to be patient. So like, what does that balance look like in the moment and also throughout a career? This is why I don't coach. Because my son will be like, I'm going to run four or five and I'm like, no, you're not. Not today, son. Like maybe in three years, you're not doing that now. Broken heart. Thanks. This question's more for Dez, but being your first time back in Boston post professional retirement, where's your headspace sort of being in this ex officio role? And is there any sort of sadness about not lining up at the front as a competitor? Yeah, I mean, I think I was telling someone about this earlier. I was like, I went to the desert and hammered myself into the ground so that I could come in here and be like, yeah, no, I couldn't, I couldn't really mix it up. I know that. Like there's no doubt this time. I do think if I were like, I'm in wave one, but I'm just training for Boston. I would have trained just as hard and been like, I want to beat the shit out of as many people as I can. And then I would have been like, see, I would have been 12, you know, well, like there's like, I can't do that. I've taken care of that. And I'm very, I was, I had so much fun on that trip and doing that race that I'm like, this is why I had to stop, you know, doing what I was doing, because you can't do both things well. And so I'm pretty content. I do think it'll be hard. I don't know. I mean, I think I'll have a ton of fun on Monday and I'll be able to look at the results and be happy for however it plays out. And that's probably great headspace to be in. Kara, do you want to do you want to weigh in on that a little bit? I feel like that is something that you I mean, it's obviously something you've gone through as well. I think at the trials was probably the first time that you had that moment where you're like, shit, like, I want to be doing this. But like, this is where I'm at now. Like, what was that like? And do you have any tips for a friend for you? Um, it's really hard. I went to the Olympic trials in 2020 and I was like, excited to be there and happy to be cheering everyone on. And I think I've told the story on the pot. And then all of a sudden I just started crying. I went down an alley and just cried so hard because I was just like, so jealous. And I was like, God, I miss it. I miss it so much. And then my eight, my old agent like texted me, Hey, someone's like crying in an alley is everything. I was like, yeah, Dan, I'm just having a like crisis. It's fine. Um, and now I can go and I can appreciate it. And now I feel like I get to be a part of it through commentating, but it is really hard. It's really hard to go from trying to win these things and having it be such a huge part of your life to being like, Oh, and now I'm going to run easier or I'm going to like cheer people on. It's, it's really hard. And I think when people are like, no, it's not hard. They're lying. I only had to just spend a week in the desert crushing myself to make it okay. You did a great job punishing yourself so you wouldn't be able to win on Monday. I just wanted to say, a thank you so much for your time, especially does coming from the Sahara. And Kara like weaving your family and your guys show up for every major and it's really incredible. I have a question about, I know a lot of us probably get in our heads right before the race. And maybe the first couple of miles don't feel so great. But then you end up winning. So how do you like get out of your head or kind of psych yourself up in those when you're less confident going, going in? I think it's important to like, on the next couple of days, remind yourself of the work you did. Like you did the work to be here. First of all, you qualified to be here. And then second of all, you've done all the work in the preparation here. So it's really good to go back and review all that and to remind yourself you're not asking yourself to do something you didn't prepare to do. Like you've prepared, you're ready. And then, yeah, I mean, I remember my first marathon, my coach was like, oh, the first two miles are going to feel so easy. It's going to be ridiculous. Or no, he said the first half and I was like, this is hard. And so it is hard. It's hard. But you remind yourself of like, you're prepared to be here. You're ready to settle in. If it was easy, it wouldn't be special. So you're in here and this is the beauty of all the work you've done. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a lot of it's breaking it down to manageable sections too. I think like running the hundred k is like, I'm going to be out there all day. This is crazy. And anytime I would think about how long the race was, it was like miserable and it was hard. And I felt like I can't possibly do this. And then you'd bring it in and be like, just get to the next checkpoint. Just get your next snack. You get to have a snack soon. Have a snack, like finish your drink. So like making objectives that you can accomplish and then finding the next thing that you need to do instead of as soon as you start thinking about, I have 12 miles left. That's going to seem forever. So like bring it back to the moment you're in and give yourself a task for that and then be successful at that task and then move on to the next thing. So I just, I think that we too often get ahead of ourselves and think about what's left instead of just doing what we need to do in the moment. Hi, I have a question. Have you ever run a race before a major marathon, like the USA track and field 10 mile championships and you may not be going out with fresh legs? I know there's a handful of people entering Boston with this experience. And have you been successful? What advice would you have for other people? Wait, repeat it again. Okay, have you ever kind of in an ideal world, you would taper going into Boston. There was a major USA TTF, USA track and field 10 mile championship last weekend. The schedule is in a line. I know I ran at other people have and we're not going out with the most fresh legs. So I was wondering if you've ever gone out, race something without the perfect taper and have you been successful? Have you won? What advice would you have for others? You got this. Yeah, I mean, that's obviously a choice. Like if the marathon was the main goal and that was the thing that you wanted to really do well at, like you make a different decision about that taper experience. So I would say that's great. I hope the 10 mile went awesome, but also take that into consideration into your goals for Monday. You know, I mean, I like I want everyone to have it all. We can't have it all at once. So, you know, you've compromised a little bit and that's OK. But just keep it in mind if you feel a little bit tired on Monday and give yourself some grace. Yeah, don't count yourself out just because you did something hard a week ago, like or two weeks ago, maybe now. But but also, yeah, be realistic. Like if you went to the well in that 10 mile and you're still feeling it, like maybe adjust the goal. You got this though. You got it. All right. This question is mainly Precara. Up here. On the balcony. This question is on behalf of myself and my husband, as we're both big fans of the pod. So thanks for being here. But we just welcomed a son in the fall and we're already, as both of us are runners, excited about incorporating him into the running world. But how do you balance that and also desire for them to grow up and explore their own interests? OK, well, you can't force them into it or Colt would have run a lot earlier. So my husband and I did this thing like we called it like the cat method. Like, you know, if you go up to a cat and you're like, oh my God, I love you. They're like, you and they walk away. But if you just like petted a tiny bit and you walk away, they kind of follow you. So basically with Colt, he was always around running because he was coming to all the races. But if anyone asked him, are you going to be a runner? He'd be like, you know, girl, so I'm going to skateboard. I'm going to play soccer. I'm going to do whatever. And he did all of those things and we let him do all of those things. And you do have to be OK with like, they might just want to do theater and hate running. It might happen. Colt's super into music for a long time. I was like, wow, I mean, I'm just going to be at band concerts for the rest of my life, you know? But I think it's like healthy. Like they have to make that decision. So I think it's fun to have them be around like Colt was always around. He loved coming to the races. He loved like helping me do my bottles and all that kind of stuff. But he didn't want to do any running. And then one day he just wanted to do the running. It was like the cat thing. I'm like, are you sure? Because we don't have to, you know? So you can't force it on him. If you force it on him, they're going to hate it. But if you do the cat method, it's working out for us. Thanks. Dads, now that you are no longer elite, will we see you in the... We're coming off a podium over here. Okay. Will we see you in the Boston Commons on the yellow school bus? Absolutely not. I might not be elite, but I will always be VIP. One more question. So everyone else is asking these wonderfully profound questions. And I'm not going to do that. So does this 150 plus mile journey that you went through, my first question is, what do your feet look like? But second, I think it's a little bit of a challenge. The question is, what do your feet look like? But second of all, you just talked to that, you know, we said, hey, not the best decision to run 10 miles before you're running Boston. But you kind of... Tusha. That really wasn't my lead in, but kind of thinking about the shape of your feet and doing that and then pacing. How was that going to impact? What do you think that impact will be with you pacing Ryan? And why do you think, what are your kind of thoughts around that? Yeah, my feet are actually surprisingly good. I think the third day was pretty rough. And then they held together really well. But it was something I was like aware of in like, I'm thinking long game too. Like, okay, these are the things I need to manage before going to Boston. And even after the 100 K, like recovery wasn't great. And, you know, like, I think I was kind of close enough that like the team that I was with that was doing media was like, are you going to chase second today? I was like, I'm going to see what the body gives me. But the buffer behind me was big enough that it was like, okay, I like, I don't have anything left to chase. I don't want to get injured for the rest of the year here. So I'm just going to be conservative and hold my position through the rest of this thing. So that was kind of the mentality. And yeah, I think it's the same kind of thing right now. Like I've taken the last couple, I took a little bit of time off and then took the last couple of days running easy, did strides today to try to get the pace coming back around. And I've been super realistic with Ryan where I'm like, I am going to help you as much as I can. And I could get to mile two and not be able to help you at all. But he's also like a big boy. He's fine. Like he might actually be like, I hope you can't help me. Like I don't really want you around. But yeah, I'm, I'm, he's, he's fit. He's ready to go. He doesn't need me there. If I can help him, I'm going to. And if I can't, that's fine too. Then I'll just go have a really enjoyable Monday. And again, it's like, I made her choice. This was a choice. Yeah. Like I knew what I was getting into and I'm happy to adjust the expectations on Monday with what the body gives me. So I'm excited. My feet are good. So that's a win. I do have a band aid partnership set up this weekend. So those bad boys are on the toes. We're healing. And yeah, we'll see what we get on Monday. Great question. Hi, does Kara huge fan just throughout your career. Were there any like mantras or sayings, things that you would use, like keep back in the pocket for big races, whatever it be that you found really useful. And then part B of that question is, does with your new career movements towards the ultra world, have those changed? I'll go first because it's not very profound and you're motivating. And I've been asked this a lot and people will, if you've ever listened to the pod, I'm a big fan. We're like, you don't know my mantra. Um, no, so, so my mantra is actually really boring, but I, I just say calm, calm, calm, relax, relax, relax. And I say it in a calm and relaxing pattern that like flows with my foot step and my breathing. And then I do a head to toe kind of body check, like is my jaw clenched? Relax, you know, as are my, my shoulders in my ears, like let's get those down. How tight are my hands? Like a relaxed and it's fast running. Isn't forced. You have to relax and let it come out of you. And so I think going through that again is a task thing, which was why the mantra is so boring, but when we get ahead of ourselves, we start, you know, breaking down a little bit or getting tense about it. And so it's just keeps me really present and gives me something that I can do and maintain and control that helps me run smoother and faster. So, um, yeah, that's been super helpful. And I used it a little bit during the hundred K. And the thing about the hundred K was just so much time out there. I got to do all kinds of fun stuff. Like I was singing to myself. I was like, just like, I could talk to myself out loud. I was like, be a bad motherfucker. Let's go. Like, you know, like no one's around. I'm just like, you got this. Be gritty. Be a gritty bitch. Like things like that. And my, my video guy was like, I was telling him, I was talking to myself. He's like, I bet you have like really aggressive self talk. And I was like, oh, you fucking know it. So I was glad I was a mic'd up, but I tell you guys, because you're fans of the pod. Send us home, Kara. Give us something good. Okay, well, I was really into mantras, but I would pick a different one for every race. And then I would use that word throughout my training. So like on a really hard training run or a training run that I was doing really well, I would repeat that to myself. So I'm like way cheesier than Dez. So mine were like, be courageous or fighter or have the courage to believe in yourself. And stuff like that. And I would literally pick a new one for every race. And so, yeah, I was big into that cheesy stuff. I still kind of am. How did you pick though? Like what, like, what were the things that you're like, this is like, I need to be a fighter this time. Or what, like, what drove those decisions? Yeah, I think like when I made my first Olympic team, my, my theme was fighter. Like I'm going to fight no matter what I'm getting myself on that team. So it was more of like, you know, as we were talking, you make that next step. For so, for me, it was like, I got to make this Olympic team and then prove that I belong. And so I'm going to fight. So fighter, I think Boston in 2013, I was coming off of pretty significant injury after the Olympics. So it's actually kind of funny. Nike, I was by Nike at the time. Duh, if you've read my book. And then we had kits. Shalene and I and her shoes said, fuck shit up. And my shoes said, have the courage to believe, Kara. So, you know, I'm like a little bit more feely or whatever, but it worked for me. There's an option for everyone. Well, thank you guys so much. This has been incredible, amazing turnout. And have the best Monday ever. Go and fuck shit up. Yeah, fuck shit up. Thanks, you guys.