257: Binge Watching All of Stranger Things

Hey everyone, considering the controversy surrounding Stranger Things, we thought it'd be nice to use this episode as an opportunity to draw attention to an ongoing fundraiser being held by a longtime Deadmeat fan named Zaina. She's Palestinian, loves horror, and her fundraiser to help rebuild Gaza and provide aid to Sudan, Lebanon, and other Indigenous communities is so close to hitting its 75k goal. It's currently at 96%. You can donate at the coffee, coffee, coffee, not like Kofi Kingston, coffee, link I've provided, or also the Redbubble link I've provided. They both go to the same thing, it's the same fundraiser, but the Redbubble link features artwork that Zaina's made. She's also an artist, including this incredible picture of Chucky wearing a hijab. I already have a sticker of this on the way to me in the mail. The money from Zaina's fundraiser goes to Med Global, and I've also included a link in the description if you want to learn more about this organization. Zaina has family personally involved with Med Global, including an aunt who's a nurse that has traveled to Gaza several times to provide care. Let's help a fellow horror fan out and turn that 96% into 100% in time for the holidays. Thanks everyone, let's get to the show. What do you think? I think we're dead meat. Real dead meat. Welcome to the Dead Meat Podcast, you're a horror safe haven, I'm Chelsea. I'm James, we're married and we like to see stranger things together. Sorry. I forget what I say after that. That threw me off. I feel like I go into such autopilot that any deviation from that fries my brain a little bit. No, we're good. We're talking about stranger things. All of it. I'm so sorry for people who don't like stranger things. Dead Meat fans who don't like stranger things are just being force fed this shit the past couple of weeks. But listen. It's cause it's ending, and it's cause the last two episodes of the podcast were stuff that like I, they were, you know the one for you, one for me thing. The last two were for me. And we have advertisers we need to make happy. Well, don't do that. That's not entirely the case of why we're doing this. We could have done some other stuff, but. That's true, we could have done other stuff. The reason we're doing stranger things is because I have, I didn't keep up with the show while it was happening. But as soon as I started doing the kill counts for it, obviously I started mainlining it and I've enjoyed it for the most part. Chelsea has never done that. She watched, we watched the first season together. We watched the first season when it aired. Back in July of 2016. Yes, Obama was still president. Obama was still president, dude. Dead Meat didn't exist. We watched that season. We really enjoyed it. Yeah. Season two came out a little bit later in October of 2017. That was like a year and a half later almost. And I think what happened was we started to rewatch season one as a refresher and we didn't make it through. No, I did not enjoy rewatching it was the problem. At the time. Yeah. And so neither of us ended up watching season two because I remember we went to Halloween Horror Nights that year and we didn't know what was happening with the mind flayer and everything. And then I don't think I picked up season two until I covered the kill, the season one on the kill count and got to season two. And then like I said, I enjoyed it, but you never watched anything past season one. And then now it's coming to an end. And despite sentiments around some parts of the internet like Reddit who think that it has taken too long and that people don't care about it anymore, people still care. I mean, people still clearly care. It's such a cultural juggernaut. It's everywhere. Yeah. And it's not. I don't think it holds the same weight as it did before. No, no, no, no. I think that if this wasn't the announced last season, then it would have issues. If it was like, here's a season and then we'll have a final one later. I think this season would struggle. Yeah. But I think they're getting in right at the last minute that they can being like, this is the end. This is the last gasp of it being a thing where people would care. Yes. So people would be like, okay, since it's ending, I'll tune in all three fucking release dates and do that. And so since that kind of cultural event is happening, especially with the lack of monoculture nowadays, I feel like you don't get many moments like this. I've been excited for it. And I think just talking to enough people in front of you about it, you were like, all right, I'll do it. Yeah. I kind of just didn't want to feel left out of the big everyone. I feel like everyone we know is kind of watching it. And I was like, fine. I also want to watch the last season while everyone's watching it. Therefore, let's do it for the podcast. It'll motivate your binge, which I cannot stress enough was a binge. You did a season a day. Yes, that's correct. So you made it through this last season, all of Stranger Things in five days. Yes. This last week, I watched all of it. Have you dreamt about it? No, surprise. Surprise. Yeah, because literally you wake up, you watch Stranger Things until like two in the morning and then you go to sleep. Yeah. And so I... It's for work. You're working. All the laborers are like, oh, god damn it. Someone's at an Amazon factory right now listening to us boxing stuff up and they just are spitting on the floor, rightfully so. I'll pay for this later in life. Being sedentary, that's the new cigarettes people say. Oh, is it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a thing. It's not good for you. But yeah, I think you even managed to mostly do confine each season to a day. Yeah. Which lends itself to some nice separation. Yeah, except for season four, that through that. That's a big one. Yeah. But so how this podcast is going to work is we're actually going to go season by season. So I'll make sure that we don't spend too long on each season, but we'll talk about each season. It's going to be so hard because they all are kind of a slurry. Yeah, but thankfully I've watched them a bunch of times for the Kill Count. I sat with you and watched a lot of The Old Observers. I'm shocked at how much you watched of this with me. Especially because like two and three are the ones I've seen the least, especially two. And so I was watching a bunch of those and I even told you I was like, when you get to four, I've just spent two months of my life covering this for the Kill Count. Yeah, that's what I was surprised with how much of it you watched with me. I watched the first four episodes with you because four is fucking good. I love four. So I just sat there watching. We're going to have to agree to disagree on a lot of those, I think. Yes. For everyone who has ever thought, oh, they agree too much on things. No, we're going to. Here's your separation. Yeah, we're going to have some spirited debate here. And that's the other thing is for people who maybe watch Stranger Things but don't like it, you'll have a bit of a representation in Chelsea who will be more. I'm so sorry. But also it's funny, the Stranger Things 4 Kill Count came out and there were some comments on it being like, why does James hate this show so much? Or like he was so negative about it. Gressel, you just watched them. Do you think I was negative in the Kill Count? No, I think you were incredibly fair. I think you were incredibly fair. I think people think you don't like it. I think people, some people can't handle the, I like this thing, but will make fun, like jokes about things I don't like about it. Oh my God, people will think I'm the biggest crank in the world then. Maybe, but like I overall really like season 4. I'm still going to make fun of the fucking Russia stuff and how much I hate going back to Russia. You were so mad. I was like, I was getting very upset. Like, because the thing is, Stranger Things is very much just by the nature of what it is, it's going to be something that I'm never going to love this. Yeah, because it is a like, a celebration of pop culture and a like, very mainstream kind of sanitized look at the 80s and nostalgia. It's like all about the nostalgia. Not only that, but it's the kind of big blockbuster style kind of gauzy. All the hero shots. We've got a lot of CGI mush, hero shots. It's, I think people, there's a misconception I think a lot of people have that I don't like superhero stuff, which is not true. It's more, it's the kind of like, like examples like MCU, how style maybe like it's more that that specific kind of like PG-13, PG friendly, blockbuster style where it's kind of candy looking. This show very much feels in that same family of style. Where it's like, this is an epic thing that we're doing. Yes. Check out this slowed down needle drop with a montage. Correct. Yes. And we're all fighting a big thing in front of a blue screen. And we're getting quips in while we're doing it. We're doing jokes and there's a big emotional moment where we want you to feel something. God damn it. And that just is never going to be something that I like. Yeah. And I agree. That's just not for me. I agree for the most part. I think Stranger Things works better for me than like the MCU example just because it does have this reverence for horror that, you know, even though it's not super horror, I think season four is, but it does like the Duffers obviously have an appreciation of the same things I like, even if they are referencing them a little bit more overtly than I would prefer. Yeah. If that makes sense. Sure. Yeah. I should think of other examples because I feel bad always just using the MCU. But it's the easiest example. Does Jurassic World work as an example? I think so. I think that's a great example. The Jurassic World trilogy for sure. Definitely. Especially when they start bringing in the older characters and leaning on bad and just like, but even that first one is just like so much. Even though I will say like to be fair to fans of both Stranger Things and the MCU, I don't think Jurassic World ever reaches the highs that either of those. Do you know what I like? Which actually makes me have a better time sometimes with it, like Fallen Kingdom and Dominion. It just sucks so bad. Kind of. Yeah. Kind of. It's just like, I don't know. Like I'll be fair and say like objectively, I'm pretty sure that even though I'm using as an example of that kind of style, I can recognize that like I don't think that those are as good as. I'm also probably biased because the Jurassic World Dominion Kill Count is one of my favorites. Okay. And I think I have to separate that episode of the Kill Count from the movie, which is dogshit. But the episode is really funny and good. But I think you said something really important, Chelsea, is that in both the MCU and Stranger Things, there are really high highs. Yeah, I'm sure. And like even if you don't like what overall the show is doing, there are moments where if you stick with it and you stick with the characters that do hit. They pay off. They pay off. There are moments that I can't wait to talk about. I'm curious what those moments are for all of you because I wonder if they're going to be very different moments for all of us. I know here a little spoiler. Chelsea said running up that hill didn't hit her that hard. I think that part of that is because you came to it so much later. I thought there's that. Like I didn't like Napoleon Dynamite because I watched it after the hype, you know, like. And there's also keep in mind this whole time, Chelsea did, like we said, fucking waterboard herself. Correct. Stranger Things. That's going to affect your viewing. Yes, I really think like that scene. Four days into a Stranger Things spin. That scene is like all these flashbacks to them. Just something you would just see. Is stuff where I'm wearing the same pair of pants that I had on. It's not going to hit me as hard. That's true. That's true. Yeah. You know, asterisks. My, yeah, if I how hard that scene hit me, you know. And then as of recording the first four episodes of season five are out, we will discuss those. I will send Gressel out of the room for it because he's only seen two of them. And then to wrap it all up after they're all out, I'd like to have an episode that's just covering the back half of season five, but maybe as like an extra podcast episode just so that people who don't watch Stranger Things aren't subjected to two podcast slots being taken up by the show they don't care about. Okay. So and it could be probably a shorter episode, maybe. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. We'll see. But let's get into it starting with Stranger Things season one released in 2016 with a bunch of children. And I think this season is like really good. Like if it had just been a one season show, it would probably go down as one of the best like limited series ever. Yeah. How are you feeling about Stranger Things one? It's hard because I remember watching it the first time and really enjoying it. But then I like I said that rewatch of it, I had such a harder time with it. I think because rewatching it maybe so many more of its flaws were evident to me. Like I think I just became so much more aware of like how I wonder if rewatching it was after we had been watching so many more horror movies. It had been because that did start. And I just was so much more aware of how much of it was lifted from other stuff. And I think maybe I was getting really frustrated with that. I also imagine that Stranger Things definitely influenced things afterward. It was a big spike in 80s nostalgia and that kind of style. And even like the it movies came after that and they feel a little bit in the same vein. So I wonder if it's kind of like an Anchorman situation where you see Anchorman that first time way back in 2000. Yeah. And it blows your mind. The funniest thing you've ever seen. It's the funniest new kind of comedy. A couple years go by every comedy is like that. You go back and watch Anchorman. You're like, yeah, you know, I've seen this before. Happens a lot with comedy. That's an excellent comparison. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I wonder if with Stranger Things you're rewatching season one. You're like, you know, yeah, I've seen this in a lot of things. But back then it was maybe more novel. Yeah. And granted, you know, I'll say upfront, like I'm going to be totally hypocritical in my review of this because there's plenty of stuff I love that is referential to other stuff and a referential of other stuff. And I mean, one of my favorite filmmakers is fucking Tarantino and that's all he does. Yeah. So sometimes things work for you. Sometimes they don't. You can't always explain it. Yeah. You know, so you can't be like, oh, got you. Yeah. Okay. You did. I guess I still not a big fan. But I really liked season one. I remember feeling a little confused and the dead will buyers, like the fake will buy your body. The fake body. That always really confused me because I was because it's so realistic looking. That was like, what is actually happening here? And then it's just like made of stuffing or whatever when when hopper cuts it. Mm hmm. But I feel like a lot of the characters are really strong in season one hopper is an awesome hopper is a great character and he's never that good. He's never that character ever again. And yeah, he's pretty much the same a little bit. But obviously three character assassination. Yeah. Same with like Joyce is such a great character in season one. I think she's my favorite in season one. Joyce is. Yes. I think she's such a strong character that first season. I would say like one of the highest highs of the entire show for me. I think honestly, maybe one of the best scenes period. The entire show is the first time she talks to Will through the lights when she's holding the string of light. That's such an amazing moment of TV period. It's like it just it's so cathartic and like so beautiful and like it looks incredible. And that's such a great moment for that character and it's sweet. And I just love it. A moment that always stood out to me in season one was Karen Wheeler talking to Nancy when she gets home upset. I forget what she's getting home from maybe after I think it's after she slept with Steve. Yeah. And she doesn't yet know that Barb's gone. Yeah. She's upset about that and Karen tries to like connect with her as like a mom, daughter. I love I mean, I'm going to be biased towards Karen Wheeler because she was in Mad Men. Yes, it's Faye. And as Faye, the the one who got away from Don, I will say. Yeah. Not the the one that Don. It's like it's like she's the one that we all wanted Don to pick, but also thank God she did. Yeah, but also good for her because every woman is too good for Don. And I love that she has continued throughout the show and gotten more things to do, which is really fun. Carabono. I'm now following her on Instagram. She's sharing a lot of fun behind the scenes stuff from season five, which is great. So that's, you know, always and Nancy, I like the the seeds of her character in season one that she is like this very proper. I mean, that's the thing about season one that I love is the it's setting up the differences and socioeconomic statuses of the families. Yeah, because the kids, I think, I mean, you can't talk about stranger things without talking about the kids. The casting, I think, was excellent for the four main kids. They are kids that I knew growing up, growing up all of them, these little nerds. I would have hung out with them. I would have been in that basement for sure. And I like that like Mike comes from this very comfortable upper middle class family. Ted Wheeler. Oh my God. One of the best. I love Ted Wheeler. Ted Wheeler is the funniest character on the show. What I do is still one of the best. What I do. I still quote that from 2016. Yeah. And then his progression throughout the series of just crank just like just like well, the government knows best and just like ultimate Reagan Republican. Yeah. Is so great. Yeah. But yeah, that family coming from obviously comfortable means. And then you have Dustin who he we know nothing about Dustin's dad. We meet his mom in season two. But like their house. They're like the lone Democrats, right? Yeah. She has a fucking Mondales. Because that's the fun thing that I think the show totally gets right is I think people don't realize how many people were Republicans in the 80s. Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, look at those election results from 80 and 84. The elections were crazy. We will not see those again in our lifetime. Yeah. It was not the kind of 50 50 split. No. We see now. Reagan cleaned up, man. Lucas's family seems just like again, like middle class probably. Yeah. Maybe not as well off as the the wheelers, but they seem pretty comfortable. Yeah. And then I love that you have the buyers who are like in this more run down house and will has to bite the farthest out to get back to his house. And it's just again a single mom and like older brother who's trying his best. Yeah. Who also is kind of parenting. Yes, he's doing a parenting like helping out with that regard and also is kind of an outcast at school. He likes, you know, the more offbeat stuff. He's got Evil Dead poster in his room. He likes Bowie and that kind of music where like that's not going to be what the popular kids are listening to. So I just love the establishment of all that and obviously, you know, Will goes missing and that kind of drives the whole thing. Young Noah Schnapp, I feel is decent as like scared kid. He has the most up and down performance for me throughout the series because sometimes I'm like, I don't really like what he's doing. And then other times I'm like, that was a really good scene like season four in the van with Mike. Yeah, that's really good. That's really fucking good. That's a good payoff. Gressa looks like he disagrees. I disagree. Really? I'm not a fan. Well, I don't want to completely blame him and his performance. I think part of the problem is that the character is written really up and down and they struggle after season one. I felt watching and you guys have watched it more recently than me, but my experience watching it at least as it came out and rewatching at least the first couple of seasons before the next ones was that after season one, they never know what to do with Will. Yeah. And season two is kind of a repeat. Yeah. And I just never felt like he fit in the action of the plot in the same way as the other characters and they really lose track of Mike later too. But I'm sure we'll get to that. Oh, yeah. But he just never really works for me as not a plot device. So like as a character that contributes to the gang, it never really fits. And I don't want to completely blame his performance because I think some of that is writing to. But like even that scene in the van in season four just felt like this is a little bit too little too late. Oh, I disagree. I think that seems really good. But then I guess we can mention people are going to like, yeah, no, Schnapp has said some shitty things really don't like or agree. Yeah, similar to like Brett Gelman where like he can go fuck himself. He should know better. And he also feels so much more antagonistic. Oh, yeah. Like he said, and has done like repeatedly just like poking and prodding and being more like me. No, it's like inexcusable. Yeah, yeah, which sucks because like I like Murray in season two. Yeah. And then they start overusing him. Yeah, no, no, no. Like that's that's like, no, fuck that. That's inexcusable. We're from Berkeley. Okay. Anyway, they gave us their blessing and they told us that our newborn son will be the king of the Jews. Jews, king of the Jews. What do you mean, Jews? We are Jews. No, no, you're not. So what are we? You are Palestinians, of course. That drip is fire. Palace what? Palestinians, the indigenous inhabitants of this land. So the Palestinians will kill Jesus. No, no, no. No Palestinian would ever hurt anyone, never, especially not Hamas. Yeah, so basically, yeah. I know. So with that, I guess we want to, it's like we're aware of that. We are aware, yeah. I also, you know, it's, it's, I've seen people say like, you want a boycott, stranger things, that's up to you. If you want to do that. There's a scene later and we'll get to it with season four. Eleven, obviously, biggest part of the show, Millie Bobby Brown was like 11 years old, I think, in that first season when they filmed that. Crazy, like crazy young, these actresses. It's crazy. Like it is, it is kind of hard though to watch this first season now in retrospect and just being so aware of like how huge this show got and knowing just how hard this show must have been on all these kids. I know. It is hard to watch. It's like, it's such a, it was such a phenomenon. And then like that's been their lives for the past. Yeah. Ten years. Yeah. Like their entire teenage years. Yeah. There was a point where it was, it was later on in my marathon where I was like, damn, these kids just weren't allowed to be kids. And I was talking about the characters because they were all like doing, so they were all like holding guns and shit. And James is like, do you mean the characters or the actors? And I was like, oh, fuck. I guess both. I think it's even worse than the Game of Thrones kids because like Game of Thrones wasn't a show targeted to younger people. Yes. So like you had young people who were fans of these actors and that's just a totally different thing. I think that's completely different. You said you think it's worse than Game of Thrones. I agree. I agree. Because you have similarly aged to the actors, super fans of this show. I think that's worse. Exactly. And I think that's worse. I think it's worse. Because not only are the actors themselves, the target of this adulation and attention, not only are they young, but the people giving it are also young and undeveloped. Everything that that implies in this current landscape, yes. Yeah. I think it's worse. Yeah. Eleven is being shepherded by Papa, Matthew Modine. He's great. I love Matthew Modine. He's fantastic. Yeah. He's so good. I was reading about the Stranger Things play. Yeah, which I haven't seen, but I guess it fills in a lot of stuff. It does. I was reading the plot summary. Yeah. And do we can watch a slime quote unquote tutorial of it on YouTube? Really? Yeah. Is it? Wasn't it on the West End? It was. And do you know who originated, who played the role of Papa on both the West End and Broadway? Was the actor we saw play Judd in the Oklahoma revival. No shit. Yes. Was Dr. Brenner. Wow, that's dope. Patrick Vale. I'm obsessed with Patrick Vale. He is like one of my favorite working musical theater actors. He's so fucking talented. Oh, dude. I love him. Is it running anywhere right now, Broadway or West End? I don't know. I feel like now should be the time they should be running it. I don't know if it is. The new season coming out. Yeah. Except if it is, I'd love to see it. If not, maybe we could learn how it makes slime. Yeah. I don't know. And then the monster in this is the Demogorgon, so named after the creature in Dungeons and Dragons. It's so funny how also the Demogorgon has really influenced. I feel like we have seen since then a lot of Demogorgon looking fucking things. Yeah. That the opening face. Yeah. That now going back and watching this, I'm like, oh, the Demogorgon. Yeah, but I feel like it was much more novel. It was. It was. It was. That look. I'm trying to think of what other specific examples, but I know, yeah, I feel like I've made the reference to a Demogorgon joke in so many kill counts because it pops up so much. Yeah. Where it's like just that kind of pedal opening like, ah, they keep the Demogorgon in the dark mostly in season one. It gets better later. The upside down as a concept is pretty cool, I think. Yeah. This mirror image of their world that's all slimy and dark. Yeah, I like it. The thing that I like about season one that disappears in all the other seasons is the kind of mysterious entity of it, of the US government. And like, what are we doing? I don't know. I feel like the US government ceases to feel like a big mysterious villain at a certain point. I think there's still a bit of that in two. Yeah. But yeah, in three, they introduce Russia. It's completely blindsided. It's just Russia. It sucks. It's so boring. The US government stuff. Yeah. It takes all kind of mystique and subtlety out of it, I think. Yeah, maybe it would be difficult to maintain that for five seasons, but that is one of the most appealing things about season one, especially during the Cold War era because it takes place in 83. Yeah, because I feel like there's so much to dig into with the very real weirdness of experiments being done around the same time with MKUltra and astral projection and all that weird shit. Yeah, like just looking in every corner to see how we could get a leg up on the Soviet. Yes. Yeah. I just think that that's so much more interesting to me. Just the lengths that we would and did go to win the Cold War versus, oh, it's just the Soviet. You know what I mean? But then again, I guess if that's the thing that you're relying on and using as a reason for the government to be involved in this season one by season three or four, would that isn't the logical conclusion? Oh, the Russians are also doing the same type of thing. That's how they are involved in this. I guess. But then I think at that point, I feel like the end point is then the arms race of it is then you both sides just get in over their heads and then it's everyone's problem. And then there's no bad guy that's the United States or Russia. It's then you get you get to the same end point where it's, you know, Vecna and shit. Yeah. It ultimately doesn't matter the political alignment. I feel like it doesn't matter by later. Yeah, I think that's the problem that I have with those the later seasons and the Russia stuff is like, are you telling a Cold War story? Are you telling a story about like a group of friends in a small town? I mean, you know, at that point, it's kind of both less about the friends in a small town. That's the issue. Like the scale gets out of control. Yeah. And that's the thing is it takes place in a like suburb of Indianapolis. I think it's 80 miles out of Indianapolis. Hawkins is like 80 miles. So like it's Indiana. It's not like a big state population wise. It's, you know, more of a rural suburb. So I love that setting. Yeah. You know, they're very much removed from like the more glitz and glamour of like a city in the 80s. So that's why you get some delayed fashion things. And obviously season one has a lot of the nostalgia for the 80s in it. I think I don't know if that maybe peaks in season three with all the mall stuff. I hate season three. No, you hate season two. The more that I think about season three, the more that I like really hate season three. Okay. All right. Well, anything else to say about season one before we move on? I don't know. Like it's it's it's solid TV. It's baby Stephen King. The baby. Yes. It's, you know, Yeah. I think I said in the kill count for season one that it's like Stephen King and Steven Spielberg thrown together. Yeah. You know, it's the Spielberg style with the King kind of story. I think it's crazy that there is a lace front wig just chilling in the wheeler's house. Yep. You always had that complaint. I've always had that problem. I think getting away from the pastiche though of Stephen King and Steven Spielberg is part of what hurts the show later on. See, it's so funny. I've used the word pastiche more than once this last week as like my biggest issue with this fucking show is I'm like this. Watching this feels like the end of culture sometimes, you know, or it's just it's pastiche. We're just mushing things together and it makes me feel like deep despair sometimes. I think if it was more focused, it would work better. I think the problem is when you start expanding it out to include things like action movies and everything else about the 80s, the mall stuff, teen movies. When it's just broad 80s. When it's just broad 80s. Laser focused. Right. Yes. I agree. That. Okay. I see what you're saying. Yes. That I agree with when it's less laser focused homage. I agree. Yep. Yes, I agree. All right. Season two came out in July. 2017 or no, October of 2017. So a little bit under a year and a half after season one. Hilarious. That it was that short back then. Yeah. Yeah. Season two is my least favorite season two is because I sat in on a few episodes with you watching it because I was like, it's been a long time. I want to, you know, rewatch some and reappraise it. I was bored as fuck. Season two, I think I remember the least from my marathon. Because it feels like season one. It's the same thing. Yeah. Season one. It's just, it's just a repeat of season one. Season one part two. Yeah. As opposed to the other seasons, which have a very distinct feel to them. Yeah. It's Oh, no, Will's weird again. Yeah. Instead of the Christmas lights everywhere. We've got drawings. Drawing pictures. Things everywhere. And yeah. Instead of Brenner, it's Paul Reiser. Yes. Yes. I love the reveal or like the you're immediately suspicious of it. Yeah. Yeah. And I love that by the end of the season. It's like, oh, he's actually a good guy, which is a great meta kind of rug pull. If you know him from aliens as the one of the sluggish bastards of all time. I love Paul Reiser's voice too. So it's great. So I do want to say one more thing about season one. I love Barb. Oh, we didn't talk about Barb at all. It's so funny because it's, you know, she was a fan favorite character. She dies in like what the first first episode first episode. End of first episode. Oh, is it the end of the first episode? I think it's the end of the first episode. I think it's the end of like end of two. No, I think it's two because the end of one is what will be loved. Oh, yeah. So so the end of second episode, she's dead. I love that even in season five, I think at least four. Yeah. Nancy is still traumatized. As she fucking should be. It would be so easy for this show to be like, oh, yeah, that was okay. And then just move on from it and not have to do it. But like, I forget if it's two or three when she's like talking to her Barb's parents and helping them figure it out. And like anytime Barb is brought up, Nancy is affected by it. And she's it still motivates so much of her character. It really changed her from being someone like focused on school and like living up to her parents' expectations to being like, oh, no, there's real shit out in this world. Yeah. I'm going to be Nancy. Walk him down wheeler to fucking take care of it. Yeah. Love Nancy. Love. I was a Barb. You said that when you were watching, you said you was a Barb. And I had a Nancy. Really? Oh, is this someone I know? Not someone you know personally. But yeah, like we grew apart. Oh, no. Yeah. Oh, it's bittersweet. But yeah, I was definitely the Barb where I was like, oh, you're like drinking now. Okay. Oh, you got a boyfriend now. Okay. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I love Barb. I relate to her. I'm glad that she is still a present. Yeah, I'm glad she's got like a punchline, you know. Oh, yeah. Yeah. She's like, because I mean it's season four, Nancy like Vecna goes to that moment for Nancy, you know, like it's still her most traumatizing moment in her life. And I love that. Oh, and Steve, you hated Steven season one. Do season one, Steven people. She's watching season one. She's like, I fucking hate Steve. There's no way I'm going to end up liking him when he's. He had a lot of work to do after season one. Because he was painting Nancy. Nancy wheelers. Nancy wheelers. The slut. The slut. Yep. I hope she ends up with neither of those boys at the end of the show. I'm going to call. I don't think she's going to put either of them. You don't think so? No. I feel like she better not end up with Jonathan. Okay, we'll get to it. We'll get to it. Jonathan in season one. It's also creepy. He did take those pictures. They're both weird. I think she's going to, I think she is going to peace out of Hawking. I think she's going to go her own way. I think she should get with Dustin. I love their relationship. Oh, I like that. I actually kind of love that. Yeah, wait, hang on. I like that too. I was serious about that, but. But I mean, it'd be weird because in the show, like it's hard to, it's easy to forget. Like I know the actor is like 20 something now. But in the show, he's still what? Like 14, 16. I think 16. 16 by the way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Season two introduces Max and Billy. I love Max. I think C's sync is fantastic. Okay. It took me a couple episodes to get on board with Max because they introduced her as like, look, she's a girl, but she plays video games and she's skateboard. And she, I forget what there's like all these details where it's like, yeah, she's a girl, but she's a cool girl. She's got the Michael Myers mask, right? Yeah. And she dresses up as Michael Myers. I was like, I get it. So thank you so much. Thank you. But no, she's, I like her. Yeah. I think she does such a good job portraying a kid who is like, comes from a shit background. Yeah. Trying to deal with it. And as a defense mechanism has just like become this surly, you know, sarcastic, closed walls to people. I fucking love that. But like when she makes friendships, she, and I love how throughout season two, Lucas and Dustin are both into her. They're interested in her and they have this kind of like friendly rivalry going over for her. And she's like, they want to bring her in, but they keep excluding her from things because of all the crazy shit from season one. And she just gets fed up with it. Yeah. She's like, what the fuck do you want? Like am I your friend or not? Like include me or no? Yeah. Yeah. And I love that aspect of her character. I also think I ended up really liking her because of the boys, Lucas is my favorite. And I think once I realized like, oh, her and Lucas are I think, okay, well, Lucas likes her. Then I like her. Lucas, it's so funny. I love Lucas. And I remember in season one. Well, I don't. Yeah. In season one, he's difficult. Oh, he's a dick. He's like my least favorite in season one. But like, I love that there's that aspect. No, there has to be. He has to be like that in a season one. There has to be someone in the friend group who's like, no, fuck this. One of them has to be like that. And it's him. Yeah. Because Mike's like romantically interested in Al and Dustin just wants to keep the piece. Yeah. And then Will's in like a sausage casing and the upside down. So then there is Lucas. Yeah. But I remember watching season one back when it aired and thinking like, this kid's line deliveries are so like kind of stilted and weird, but I don't hate it. And I feel like that continued throughout like season two. But I think he's just increased like Caleb is it Caleb McLaughlin? McLaughlin? Yeah. Yeah. He's just I think he's a really strong actor. I think he's gotten better and better each season. I think he's just eminently likable. I just want I just want to see him in anything else. But like more adult material, like just give him a grown up script. I'm I'm begging. I mean, he's got a five o'clock shadow in season five. Not that kid had to wake up every morning and shave. I'm sure of it. I think season two also briefly introduces Erica, his sister. I love Erica too. Dude, I was so worried because I love Erica Sinclair. No, she is a precocious kid. And I was like, Chelsea doesn't always like precocious kids. Precocious kids are hit or miss with me, but I love I love her. And I also I'm going to skip ahead briefly. You can't. Derek is my go. I love Derek. Derek is my king. Derek is my favorite character in all stranger things. He is the fucking best. He's the best. But yes, Erica Sinclair. I'm curious how many people like and dislike her because I could see not liking everything I was reading the stranger things. So because I was curious, I was like, I could see I was like, this is such a character where I could see people fucking hating her for like the worst reasons. But everything I've seen is people like love that character. I love her. And a lot of people I've seen are people saying like she's one of the actors that a lot of people think they're like, she's the only one still trying. Oh, in season five. Yeah. Yeah. I do think that's part of it is she gives a great performance. Yeah. Like she's just really good. Pre-affirmation. Yeah. She's very good at like and her character is also not just precocious. There are a lot of very specific things about her. Like she's super pro capitalist in America. Yes. Which is so funny. Like she's taken on that like, oh, my parents say that like commies are bad. And like America is great. That's the correct thing. So like, yes, capitalism, America. It's yeah. And coming from like this like eight year old is so funny. Do you guys remember the beginning of Rocky Four when Apollo gets killed by Drayton? I didn't see Rocky Four. I've seen Rocky. Oh my God. Okay. Well, then never mind. But there's there's a whole big dance number where like Apollo Creed is dancing to James Brown. And he's got his America boxing shorts on and he's got an American flag and there's fireworks. And like that, I feel like is Erica's favorite movie scene. Of just like, look up the scene. You'll know what I mean. Billy smacks his stepbrother. Big piece of shit here. Yeah. And and I feel like people forget that he's racist. He's very fast. He's very clearly racist. Yeah. He doesn't outright say the N word, but he wants to do so. He wants to real bad, dude. Yeah. That character wants to say a slur so bad every time he's on screen. Because when whenever Max is hanging with Lucas, he's like, there are people that are not right or good enough and you have to stay away from those people. Yeah. Those people, Max. Yeah. And clearly the guy is racist, but man, dude, people love Billy. It's because he's hot. And yes, he's because he's hot. There's been a few things on this show. And I don't think it's the things the show wants me to laugh at, but like him just lifting weights and his while smoking a cigarette is like the hardest I've laughed at anything on this show. It's like, yeah, he's doing curls with a bar while smoking. I'm like, dude, how are you going to take a drag? Just inhale for 10 reps, man. Get it in. Bob Newby. Sean Aston. He's perfect as this character. It's so funny because you're watching it and like a few episodes in, you're like, I think Bob's going to be a bad guy. And I remember feeling the same way. And why didn't we both think that? I was like, he's evil. He's a spy. I was like, oh, there's something up with this guy. I thought the same thing too. I thought he was a plant. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And I wonder how intentional that was and how many other people felt the same way. Because for that character to work, especially the end where he gets killed, you really have to fully believe he's a good guy. And by then, I think they convince you. Yes. Yeah. But it also doesn't help that he has that sweet scene with Will when he's driving him to school and he tells him about his dream and how he faced his fears. And then when Will takes his advice, he gets fucking. He has a mind flare. By the mind flare. So I'm like, if we want this guy to be like a likeable dude, why are we making his advice the worst possible advice that fucks Will over? I don't know. Yeah. I remember disliking the Noah Schnapp performance in the season, but rewatching it, he sure does shake and scream pretty well. I remember we went through the Horror Nights house that year. And it was so funny watching that season because I was like, dude, I remember seeing the weird little Noah Schnapp like fucking dummy they had in there. Like, and I was like, oh, that's what that was. I was like, what the fuck is it? Like I love going through Horror Nights houses where I haven't seen the property. It's based on because I'm like, I don't know what the fuck is going on. Like the one is this mind was this giant spider. Yeah. I remember seeing the smoke like spider and being like, what the fuck is that thing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How do we feel about the mind flare? I hate it. Oh, because what the fuck is that thing? You know what? I'm not a big fan. I it the mind. Okay. Here's why I hate the mind flare is the finale set pieces of two and three. It makes it so fucking boring. I don't like watching them fight the mind flare. I don't it's I'm like, I'm just asleep. It's so boring. It is like the least interesting like, okay, guys, here's the plan. And then it is just a big like it's 11 standing there screaming. It's them all driving around screaming and to walkie talkies. It's like and it's it's just like there's nothing. There's no villain to like have a back and forth. There's no anything. It's just all of them yelling at each other and we're all in front of a blue screen and interacting with a CGI monster. I fucking hate it. Like it's it's it's when I just totally check out. I don't think they use like blue screen as much as maybe you think. Okay. Well, you know what I mean? I mean, I mean, the monster is yes. Yes. Yeah. The monster is a CG thing. Like it's where it's all just I'm just so aware of like I'm looking at a bunch of nothing. And I'm bored and I don't care. And I think it's very telling that they went from humanoid monster to big monster back to humanoid. Yeah. Yeah. Because you connect so much more even the faceless demogorgon. That's unsettling that it doesn't have a face, but it's otherwise humanoid. There's something that that makes that monstrous and scary. But the big smoke monster and then the big tooth monster, whatever the fuck it is in season three. Isn't it just like the meat version of the mindflayer? Yeah, it just doesn't. I agree with you. It just does not hit at all. Well, even like season one, it's not even just the demogorgon. You have like way more of the stuff with the guys in the lab. Yeah. Papa. And you have more human characters to act as your villains. And you have so much less of that in two and three. A Vecna as much as like when you think about it, it kind of doesn't make any fucking sense. I don't care. Yeah, no. Vecna is shot in the arm. You need a guy. Yeah. You need a guy. For sure. You need someone run around talking. What you were saying, I think is something. I wonder how big the bag of tricks that the Duffers have is. I know that they're signed on to do something else now, now that Stranger Things is wrapping up. I'm very curious to see how it is because watching all of Stranger Things kind of back to back, it just feels a little repetitive in style and in setup for the story. There are lots of scenes where the characters are like, OK, here's the plan. They spell it out and then you watch them do the plan. This happens repeatedly. And eventually gets a little old. So many scenes. I can't even you wouldn't even be able to count how many where it's like, wait, like a character asks some another character something and then it's pushing on that character cut away and we'll come back to it later. Having already answered and explained everything like it just like and the group shots. They're all carefully posed as it's pulling away. It just feels like a lot of the style is repeated and repeated and repeated and I get sick of it. I think there are some cool things. It's season five. There's a really cool action one or which they also had in season four and like those. I'm like, OK, I'm into these. But stylistically, I just feel like there's a lot of repeated elements that over five seasons of TV shows start to stand out a little bit without how repetitive they are. But I'm interested in seeing if that's just the material. If that studio notes who the fuck knows, you know, season two. Anything else with season two? Because I don't remember what the fuck happens. We said when Bob died. I guess. I was. I remember being said when Bob died. I remember being like, OK, they earned this. The problem is he is the first of many, many characters. That's what I was kind of annoyed at that are introduced in a season only to be killed at the end because they don't want to kill any main characters. Yeah. Stranger things, you have too many characters now. Yeah. You have too many characters. I think the hard part about watching this after so many seasons have come out is I'm like, well, I know Sean Aston is not in. Yeah. Future season is. And you know, Sadie Sink is. You know, I'm like, this is the most dead character I've ever seen on anything. So he's going to die. So I knew it was going to happen. I don't know. I guess I was sad. I will tread carefully here, but I just want to point out that season two also has the bottle episode, which everyone hates because it's I literally was like, James, can I please skip this? And he was like, no, you're going to suffer through this like we all did. And so I did. I'm sorry. Yeah. The episode 111 goes off on her own. It's a whole removed thing. Oh my God. What were we thinking? It was a backdoor pilot, right? Yeah. Was it? Was it a backdoor pilot? I'm pretty sure it was a backdoor pilot. Maybe that's just something that was suggested that throughout the years. To justify it? No. Someone maybe said it online is like, maybe this is a thing. And throughout the years, I've just calcified that into fact. Like this is their like this was their Gen V to. To the boys. Stranger things, the boys. Yes. Which if that's the case, what the fuck? Who would watch this show? I remember watching that and being so flabbergasted. Yeah. Like I don't remember any other long running TV show that I was a fan of getting to an episode and being like, what is happening? Yeah. Like what am I watching? What is this? Yeah. Like just total disbelief, not just like quality or anything, but just like this is such a weird thing. It's so weird. Like it's just trash all of it. Like it's so like it's so weird. It's just and like what a weird thing if the if the like backdoor pilot thing is true. Who would like what a weird what city was it? Was it Indianapolis or was it Chicago? I was Chicago. I thought it was a bigger city. Yeah. Right. But I don't remember Chicago is the closest there. But yeah. But just like the most stereotypical 80s. Yeah. Which which like in another like universe I would like because I love that kind of early 80s grime. But Stranger Things is not the franchise to do that with. It's too much sheen on it. It's too. Yes. Yeah. It's too shiny to do. Yeah. Stranger Things doesn't have the. Sack. Yeah. It doesn't have the sack to pull that off. It's not gross enough. Yeah. Freddie Fazbear's Pizza. Definitely not the Freddy's I remember. This is the original. Nobody's been here for decades. 3. 3. 3. 3. This week's episode is sponsored by Ali. We here at Dead Meat know that Molly isn't just special to us, she's special to all of you. Whether she's sitting on one of our laps, running around the studio, or trying to dig into the carpet for some reason, Molly outshines us both on every episode and deserves the best of the best. They offer fresh, protein-packed meals made with real, human-grade ingredients, which is great especially as Molly gets older, and they offer five tasty recipes slow-cooked for top nutrition, a win for Molly's picky eating tendencies. They even offer tailored meal plans to meet your dog's needs, which is something I really appreciate. 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I hate doing it. I hate even talking on the phone. It's miserable. Rocket Money has saved users over $2.5 billion, including over $880 million in canceled subscriptions alone. 1 million members save up to $740 a year when they use all the app's premium features. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to rocketmoney.com slash deadmeat today. That's rocketmoney.com slash deadmeat. Rocketmoney.com slash deadmeat. Anything else about season two? I can't think of anything. Mr. Clark is still around. I love that guy. Oh my God. I swear I had memories of Mr. Clark being fucking murdered in season one. And then I realized I was thinking of Gremlins. Yeah. Different science teacher. I love he's still around. When are they going to tell him? When are they just going to tell him everything? I think it's insane that this poor man is just in the dark. He's living his best life. Dude, he's watching the thing with his hotty hot girlfriend. Maybe. I don't know who she is. She never comes back, but he's like chilling. Yeah. Explaining the practical effects of Rob Routine. Yeah. He's having a good time. Do you think he watches the deadmeat? The actor or the the character? The character? He'd be real old by then. Yeah. You never know. Like if deadmeat exists. He'd be 70 something. Yeah. He would be like 70. Like, oh, I guess 70s don't. Your dad's about to be here. He doesn't sound like that. No, he could. My dad was wearing his deadmeat t-shirt. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Season three. We are finally doing something different. It is not season two again. And that has both pluses and minuses. It is definitely more of a comical direction. We're getting more 80s nostalgia. We got the mall. But what I love about season three is that it is the only time we get all the kids together as a friend group who are all together. As a six. Is it six? Because it's the four plus 11 and Max. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I love them together, getting up to Kitchenette, getting into, you know, even their romantic quarrels and how like Mike lies to 11 because Hopper threatens him and then Max finds out and is like, no, fuck that guy. Like we're going to go have a girl's day. Like I like that stuff. I like seeing Max open up and be less surly and more of a friend to 11. That's fun to see. And then yeah, how are you feeling? How do you feel about that stuff? No, I like that stuff is all cute. I hate watching the kids kiss each other. I don't think that should ever be allowed on the show. They are kids. Yeah. And they're kissing a lie here. That's what makes Hopper into a grouchy sitcom dad. The worst Hopper needs to be drowned in a lake. I hate Hopper so much like from season three. Howard from sea. Yeah. It's kind of only season three. He's way better in four. I still it's like at a certain point, I'm like, I just don't give a fuck about this character anymore. Like he should have been killed. I think it would have been. He should have just he should have died in that work camp, dude. They should have left him there. Like they know he should have died at the end of season three and actually had some explosion. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it would have been funnier if he just died in that work camp. Yeah. Like season four star. They're like, he survived. But then he got. But he got French foot. Yeah. Dude, season three, it's weird because at first I was like, I think I like season three better because it's not as well. It's not as boring. But also season three, I was I felt myself getting so much more pissed off. So it was just this weird thing of like, do I like being bored more or do I like being pissed off? What was pissing you off? Um, the the 80s. This of it. It feels the most. I wanted to rip my hair out. It was Madonna needle drops. It got all sorts of scenes coming to a screeching halt. Is that the new coke scene? The new coke scene, the back to the future discussion. The there's a whole bunch of it where it's just like, let's grind the entire episode to a halt to just talk about something from the 80s. And it's so like, other seasons don't really do this, or at least they do it in ways that feel relevant to stuff that's going on where it's like characters talking about Dungeons and Dragons because they're all playing Dungeons and Dragons. You know, it's stuff that feels relevant to like what they are doing or yeah, season three just feels the most egregious about it. Like it's definitely a huge tonal shift. Yeah, like the scene where it's like you'll have like that moment where again, this is like the high highs and low lows where you have that scene with Steven Robin. That's really sweet. Oh, God, where she comes out to him and it's I'm like, this is great. I really like this scene. This is such a sweet moment, especially when you when you think about the kind of age range that this show is really targeted towards. I'm like, this is great. Like this is I think this is really lovely. I like this nice character moment. This is I love this for Steve. Great, you know, and then I think it's like right around here. If it's before or after this, it's like, whoa, back to the future. It wasn't that chick his mom, his mom's trying to fuck. And I'm like, ah, yes, we all know. We've all like we all know that's the joke about back to the future. It's not even like a novel observation about back to the future. We all had this conversation about back to the future. But I do think we had this a bit of a discussion because like, OK, so like the three of us here in this room, one of our favorite things is venture brothers. We have talked about this a lot. And one of the things that appeals about that show to us, I think, is the specificity of the references they made. Yeah, that show is filled with homages and references and pop culture discussions. But it's never, hey, didn't Marty McFly's mom try to bang him? It is so much more specific to where like, if you don't know it, it's going over your head. But if you know it, you're like, holy fuck, I can't believe they're talking about this thing. But we were talking about, I think it was about the New Coke thing. Yes, you were like kids who are watching stranger things aren't going to know what New Coke is. And I countered with, well, this is how they learn. Like this is such a broad surface level approach and depiction to the 80s and what was pop culture in the 80s. But with the age watching stranger things, maybe this is how they learn about that stuff and understand those references. Yeah, I don't know. But also it's so frustrating when that'll happen at moments where I feel like the New Coke thing happens when it's like, this is like climax of the season. Like we're trying to get like fireworks and shit. Oh yeah, that's season three. This is like, no shit's happening. We got to go and we are everything is coming to a screeching halt to have a debate about a new Coke. Yeah. Yeah. What the fuck are we do? Like I was getting so pissed off. That's fair. Is that the same season as Neverending Story? Yes, which you let you I was like, you you fucking hated that scene. I think at that point, I just was like, I just can't care anymore. It's that you like that Susie was revealed to be real. I did like that she was real because the whole time you're like, oh, I was like, I just don't want Dustin to be a punching bag. Yeah. And I was like, at least they're good at singing. And that was cute. Then I was thinking about it later and I was like, it isn't saying that it's like, no, come on, this is like end of the world shit. And it's like, we got to stop and have another reference to a thing, you know. Yeah, I'm so 50 50 on that scene because I'm like, I think it really the only thing that keeps me from hating it is, like you said, the actual performances. Yeah. Yeah. They really give it a little musical theater kids. Yeah, I don't know if Susie's actor is, but Gaetan obviously is. Yeah. Who I think is great. I love. Oh my God. I'm worried I'm getting I'm getting older. I'm worried as like maybe I'm as I as I age, am I turning into the type of adult where I'm like, oh, no, I see like cute kids like singing and doing cute stuff. And I'm like, oh, that's adorable. Do you know what I mean? Like that type of adult. Yeah, like, oh, isn't that sweet? Oh, no, that's so bad. I do think it's interesting that because of how long this series has taken, we are a very different age and very different people than when this show started. Yeah. And watching the show now at the age that we are versus the age that we were when season one started, it is very you do just kind of like see things differently and watch things differently. And like a scene like that, it's like, oh, yeah, like these kids are adorable and that's enough to get through versus like, you know, I think when that when that scene aired, you know, in my late 20s versus my 30s, I hated that scene. I hated that scene. And I think now I would like it more than I did then. Sure. Yeah. But yeah. I mean, it's not I'm not saying I like love it. I just know I think it also I was like, OK, this is what this season is. Yes, it's very much of that season for sure. Yeah. We mentioned Robin and her coming out scene, but Robin, new character in season three. I really like Robin. I like her in season three. Fair. She's very different. I have issues with her in other seasons. But in three, I really love her as a foil to Steve. Yes, I do, too. I love the the grouping of her, Steve, Dustin and Erica. Yeah, go team right there. Yeah, I think it's a lot of fun. And I think it's so funny that their whole thing, even though it does end up connecting to the main plot. At first, it doesn't because they just pick up this signal on the radio and they're like, let's just follow this because. Yeah, because well, it's because Dustin's being shut out by. And that's another thing about this season that I do like is that it's very real in the aging. And that's what I like about Stranger Things as a whole is that it does show realistic depictions of friendships changing as you get older. In season four, you have Lucas with the basketball team and all that. And season three, it's Lucas and Mike have girlfriends now. Will doesn't and Dustin's is, you know, a long distance thing. So there is a lot of division there. And I love like when they're climbing up the hill to do Dustin's radio thing and Luke, Mike and Eleven are just like, let's just fucking go back and make out. And they're like, they just piece out like we all had friends growing up who like they would rather just leave and make out. And it's like, come on, we're trying to be friends here. And I think that really starts to motivate Will's story where it's like, oh, why don't you have a girlfriend, dude? You just want to keep playing D&D. He's the most. He's probably the youngest character wise. The actor is the younger, the youngest of the four, for sure. And he seems the youngest, you know, he seems the littlest until season five when I'm like, oh, no, Gaten didn't grow. But yeah, so I like that element of them as well. Yeah, Hopper sucks in season three. Oh my God, what did they do? I don't know why they what did they do to the character who was such a good iconic television character and such a good like masculine role model. He's like a tough guy who gets shit done, but he's also in touch with his feelings. He's willing to talk about his like how sad he was and how he cried when his daughter died. Yeah, obviously. He's like he's not like a dick, but he's he's I don't know. Yeah, he he listens to like once he, I don't know, when he's presented with evidence of something, he listens, I don't know. Like, yeah, he's a good character. He's gruff. Yeah. But and then season three, literally someone says anything. Oh, well, it's horrible. It's awful writing. Yeah, it's terrible. And yeah, it's first with Eleven and Mike and then with Joyce and like, dude, they should have disintegrated him. It's so crazy. The joy stuff, I think, is just so unforgivable. Like or Joyce just to have him treat her that way. Yes, correct. Baffling like when you have where he's supposed to be this like father figure that where, you know, where he's just his one of his defining characteristics is supposed to be how loving and compassionate he is. Yeah. Not just for L and not just for Joyce, but for like the town for everybody. Like he's supposed to be like the dad to the town. Yeah. And to have him suddenly go to where he's like borderline like one of these days, you know, he's like he's like potential family in Ireland. Yeah. Crazy. Well, he feels very Archie Bunker. Yeah. Not in like the racist way, but just in the surly like, right. Oh, Edith like, I fucking dumb wife. Right. It's crazy, man. Yeah. It sucks to watch. It's a bummer. It's so bad. As we already discussed, this is also the introduction of the Russian storyline, which again takes away a lot of the mystique of the American government. It's just so boring. And I get I just feel like they were like, whoa, if we're going full 80s reference here, let's make it a full 80s movie and have the Russians be the bad guys. And it sucks. And yeah. And also let's just make it Terminator. I hate. I hate Russian term. Russian term is terrible. I do like Alexi, though, a lot. Yeah. Alexi. RIP found dead in a ditch next to Corn Dog stand. No, it's like him and Murray. Like what he's like showing Murray something he wanted. What do you would pack? Yeah, Murray does like a pretty good. Well, he he this scene is outrageous. This show loves capitalism. It's so crazy because they go to the carnival and Murray's explaining like, well, all the games are rigged. The whole thing, you know, this is it's America. Every carnival games rigged. But Alexi, he plays the balloon game. And he learns that America is the land of opportunity. It's not rigged because he wins and everyone cheers. And then he gets fucking shot in the chest by the Russian Terminator and dies in the fucking mud next to the Tilted World. It's crazy. A little bit more Murray here. Still not too much for me. It's for when I just fucking had it with him. And I just tune out Murray, whatever he's on screen. That's fair. Is is three or four when he like. It's him and Jonathan and Nancy. That's that's two. That's two. Right. When they come. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When he when he helps these teenagers have sex. Yeah, yeah, and gives them alcohol. Oh, does he? Yes. Oh, man, Murray, you should be in jail. For many things. Yeah. Let's see season three. More Erica, which is great. Love her and her gaming the free sample system. I would also do that walking home from school because there's a basket and Robbins on the way. Billy is now full fledged villain after getting in fact. Oh, because because Karen almost. Yeah, but decides not to. Yeah, yeah, Chelsea. I think she should get to as a treat. I agree. Yes, thank you. I completely agree. I was like already for good. I'm glad this is happening. Taking a nap on Ted's. I'm the lazy boy. That poor woman doesn't deserve it. I know. I know. Yeah, when season one comes out, I'm like, oh, Nancy's cute. Now I'm like, oh, that Karen. Like she has to be married to Ted Wheeler. Yeah, I'm sorry. She like, you know, he's not doing it for her. Like this poor woman just like she's reading her romance novels in the tub. This, you know that this, you know, like Karen Wheeler, like I just feel so bad for her. Yeah, it's sad. It's sad. It's real sad. I just don't think anyone could be mad at it. Oh, I disagree with that. But if it was a different show, I think she would have. Yes, I agree. But I think there's also an element of it to where people don't want Billy to have that victory because he's such a piece of shit. Like you don't want him to be like, yeah, I got to fuck Mike's mom. That's true. Yeah. Well, you don't want that guy having that. Yeah, yeah. He doesn't get to he instead gets infected. And so I mean, Daker Montgomery is great. Yes. Yes. Excellent. You know, performance. Yeah. So it's such a scary villain to a human villain. Makes the mind flayer work as a villain because it gives him the face. Yeah, that's very. Yes, it yeah, he's like the part of that season that works. Yeah. And I also think this is when I really start to love Nancy when she's working at the post. Yes. Yes. Being assertive and having to deal with fucking Busey. Oh, my God. Oh, wait, we didn't talk about the fucking mayor. Yes. Is Carrie. Kerry, I didn't know. Chelsea had no idea. I had no idea. The scene was coming up. I was like, oh, Chelsea, here we go. Wait till you see the mayor. Oh, my God, I was. I'm a mayor. Excited. I love all the scenes with him and Hopper because I'm like, yes, I am siding with these shitty mayor. Just say is they like, I don't care about your dead daughter. I was like, dude, same fuck you, Hopper. Yeah. Carrie, I was I hope we get to see him in season five. I hope I hope just like visit. A little bit. Give us a little taste of or even on the news that could say like, you know, disgraced mayor has finished his time and is retiring to Boca Raton or some shit. Like give us something. Yeah, gives a little bit of a taste of Elvis running for Senate. You know, that's that's better. That's better for sure. Or like state rep. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And then, yeah, season three has the big finale in the mall. That's where I was so bored. I was so bored. Because that's a big, I mean, you know, and I went into the behind the scenes on that a lot of work went into that glute monster. A lot of work. I just don't think it looks good. I think it looks fine. I think it looks good for what it is, but I just that doesn't mean I like it. So I thought that scene was like that sequence was like a decent sequence for what it is. But I just I'm I'm kind of over. Yeah, like you were saying, Chelsea, like 11 holding out her hand and yelling. You know, I do like the max stuff with Billy like that. I like, you know, that's all human. Yeah. And that gets explored a lot in season four, right, which came out. That was the big delay. Three came out again a year and a half after two. Four was just under three years after season three. Yeah. And they all have a completely different. They do. Yeah. Like one to two, not that big of a difference. Yeah. Then three comes along and they look older, especially if you compare them to one. It's like, OK, they're all four comes along and oh, fuck. OK, these very different. They all look way different. But thankfully I love four. I think it's a little long. But overall a huge step up from two and three. Four is both more interesting and less interesting. Well, OK, so with four is the splitting up of all the characters drastically. Yes. Four is graphically. And like, yeah, like these characters do not these because all the seasons split off the characters, you know, but they come back, they interweave. Four is completely separate strands of story until the finale when they finally get back together. And so it sucks when some of those strands are the Russia stuff. I, dude, I hate that. Like, I hate the rush. It was so fun watching with her when Hopper escapes and then gets recaptured. And me being like, oh, you thought we were done. There were. There's two times. Yeah, there are two times. Because then they escape later. You're done with Russia. And it's like, no. Yeah, near the end, they're going to prison. And they're like, wait, we have to go back to break back in. I guys, I screamed. I couldn't fucking believe it. Yeah, the Russia stuff's a drag. It's awful. I hate Yuri. Oh, Yuri's awful. Like, and, you know, this is this was just in the kill count that came out. So a lot of stuff will probably be repeated. But like, Murray is completely over the top here. His karate, he's on screen way more. They crash a plane. They crash a plane. Yeah, because he's because he's fucking doing a karate fight in the plane. It's just like that shit sucks. It's it sucks so bad. And you know what's funny is from what we have seen of season five. None of the Russia stuff matters. No, you could literally remove all of the Russia stuff. Three and four. Correct. And it would not make a difference to what seems to be the end game in five. That's what I was saying earlier about the like US versus Russia as ultimate enemy thing, where it's it doesn't matter in the end. If that's if this is what you're working towards. Yeah, yeah. OK, and I think it's more interesting to just keep the US government and its weird internal projects as the old as the bad guy. And maybe if I hint towards like, oh, the Russians are also are also doing that. Yeah, but ultimately. Yeah, but not in Hawkins. Right. And don't go over to Russia. Right. Fucking season. Right. Yeah. Right. Because yeah, like watching season five twice now, I'm just like, oh, none of that mattered. It gave Hopper some character development. That's it. Debateably. No, he's he's a mutt. Three is the worst hopper. Four is more of like the hopper we know. Yeah. But if they didn't do that bullshit in season three, sure. Yeah. You know, like it's all four was just fixing season three's problems with a proper like they clearly they needed some kind of course correction after they built to this moment of him dying. We all knew he wasn't going to die. Yeah. But like that was just to fix the bullshit. Like and they had to spend that whole plot getting him to the point of like, oh, he's actually the hopper that you know and remember. And with like that was the purpose of Russia was fixing their mistakes from season three. Yeah, because even what they do in the finale is so like tagged on. Yeah. Oh, we can help by hurting these guys because they're part of the high find and maybe that'll help the kids somehow. Like, they don't even really know what's going on. They're like, yeah, for all they know, the kids could be doing something entirely different. And they're just like we're here to. Yeah, it's so dumb. It drove me crazy. Did you like Jochen Hagar as prison guard? I always like Jochen Hagar. I was very excited to see him show up. I feel like his his like whisper line delivery doesn't work in this show. Always like, oh, hopper, I will get you to your wife. Don't worry, you're your lover. No, I like him. He's nice. Yeah, that's I mean, that's so such a chong like I say in the kill count every time it cuts back to rush. It's like, I know because and the thing is the reason I have such a reaction to that is because it's pulling away from shit that I love. Yeah. Hawkins and Vecna. Amazing. You you said 11 was your favorite storyline. The 11. Yeah, I like 11. I liked 11 and Project Nina the best of that season. The return of Matthew Maudine as Papa officially. Yeah, because that was the most interesting to me in season one. And so I was excited to go back to it. And for me, I just think I don't know, the production design of all that stuff was the most interesting to me, I love the Rainbow Room and just all the weirdness of like like that that opening scene is so horrifying. And if you're curious, Netflix does not have the disclaimer on it anymore. That apparently it did when that episode first came out. But I just was very intrigued, like, you know, the memory regression, which is an interesting kind of throwback to something that was very huge in the 80s and is kind of a nod to the satanic panic era, which led to a lot of false accusations and contributed a lot to satanic panic was regression therapy, which is that like tapping into repressed memories? No, like, that's not, yeah, like that can be, you know, that's certainly a thing and that can be the case for people, but it was being used to basically get people to make shit like kids were just making stuff up. So what was happening is open to suggestion. Right. And so what was happening is kids were basically being put into therapy and have like being like regressing into memories of like satanic torture that never happened. And it was that was a big part of it. So I don't know. I just made me think of that. So I thought that that was kind of neat, even though 11's memories are real. Yeah. Well, that's that's a good pairing with the satanic panic element of season four. Right. That's why they set up in season three. Like the season three finale has like, oh, wait a minute, there might be something here. And so I remember seeing that and being like, oh, we're getting into this panic panic next season, which I love that storyline. Eddie as the partly inspired by Damien Nichols, Damien Eccles, Damien Eccles. I'm sorry. Yeah. The West Memphis three, even though that was a 90s, 30, not 80s. Yeah. But yeah, Damien Eccles. I met him. Oh, that would have been 2012. He wrote a book and I went to go see him talk about it. He was being interviewed by Dave Navarro when I went and saw his. But yeah, yeah, it was like it was a small talk at UCLA and I went to go see it. And he signed a copy of my book for me and was very kind. And I. Yeah, I really left an impression on you. You bring it up a lot. Yeah, it's a really interesting book. It basically is about like his time in in prison and how he got into like kind of like New Age spiritualism to basically like mentally survive being in prison and then meeting his, I believe, now wife, like through like writing letters to each other and stuff because she like would send him books and stuff. And yeah, he's a really interesting guy, still very active online and tweets a lot about like kind of like Eastern religion and stuff. If that interests you. But so I definitely took to the Eddie storyline. Yeah. How do you like Eddie? Yeah, I liked Eddie. I think just because I have such a soft spot for that kind of misunderstood type person, just being very tuned into stories like the West Memphis three and that kind of like, you know, and just everyone we've met the past eight years doing what we do. Well, yes, yeah. We meet so many fans who look like Eddie and are the biggest sweetheart. And I feel like it's such, you know, eighties, nineties, those characters are bullies and the villains. And now it's like, oh, yeah, it's just like he's into metal and D&D. Like he's a little weirdo. Society doesn't like, but he's a good guy. And so, yeah, I love him as a character. How do you feel about Jason? We never really talked about that. The the jock. Oh, I kind of liked that whole thing. I love that story. Yeah, because it's again, it's a human villain. Yes. So I liked it and I thought it was scarier than like most of the other shit on the show. Yeah, he roused up a whole town to be like, let's go. Yeah, I kept calling him Gaston. I was like, it's Gaston. He's like, kill the beast. Kill the freak. Yeah. I mean, it felt real. How do you feel about which I had no idea about until I posted the Stranger Things for Kill Count, the number of comments saying that Jason was not a villain and that he was justified with the knowledge he had because he didn't know that these things were actually happening. And from what, from his perspective, it was it was fair to do what he was doing to for his dead girlfriend. I feel you all would have fallen for the Satanic panic and you all would have felt very stupid retroactively. Like, are you fucking kidding me? I was shocked. Like, I'm sorry. Are you stupid? Like, that's just villains. You mean villains? Yeah. So you're saying you would have fallen for Satanic panic then. There, there argument is, I guess that, you know, he sees Patrick rising in the lake and dying from supernatural means and Eddie's right there. So clearly it's justifiable to assume that that's a pretty big leak to be like, we're all going to get guns and terrorized this town. Like, we're all going to be vigilante police. Yeah. He's like breaking the drummer's fingers and hands looking for these other kids. They're chasing down Erica Sinclair, who's like, what? Yeah, it's like, no, no, I could see maybe, OK, I understand thinking, still thinking maybe he had something to do with it because fair, that kid was fucking floating out of the water. I didn't forget about that part that he saw that happen. See that happen. Fair, fair, fair. It doesn't make him a good guy. It makes him a good villain. He's a great villain. He's justified in his actions based on the information that he has. That that's a motivated character. That's a good villain. That doesn't make him a good guy. That doesn't make him somebody that you should root for. Yeah. It's like we care about our main characters who he is the antagonist for. Yeah. No, some people said he's an antagonist, but not a villain. Come on, people. He has one of my favorite deaths in the entire show. It's so fucking dope. It's great. It's so good. It's so funny. It's so funny. The number of people who said that they missed it because it happens so fast. It happens really fast. That's why it's so good. That's why it's really funny. Yeah, it's just so like madder than, yeah, fuck you too. Yeah, he just gets like, like ripped in half by the like the. The rift opening. Yeah. So this is this season is when you don't care for Robin as much. No, because she turns into the type of character that I can't stand where it's like, I think they realize like we need comedic relief because all the kids are sad now. And like, so we need someone to be funny. I like her pairing with Nancy. I like that where they go. Conflict. They have their like silence of the lambs moment. A lot of silence of Robert England. Yes, yeah. But I don't know. It's just and I'm sorry if this like offends anyone because I do know a lot of people read this character as being kind of neurodivergent. Yes. And so I definitely don't want to like hurt anyone's feelings here. It's more just like writing wise where it's like like the dialogue. It's how it it's how it compliments what is going on here where it is like. I think it just it like it's the balance of I don't know. I think just tone wise, it's like it's too much. She feels like an entirely different character that too. Yeah. Yes. And in my kill con, I mentioned like reasons why that might be, you know, being back in school as opposed to working a summer job with just one guy who she's grown comfortable with, but like it is a little jarring. And I still like her for the most part, but I definitely see what you're saying with the yeah, just like, oh, and then I talk a lot and like I'm doing it right now. Aren't I? The Hawkins has, you know, obviously the way that I talk to people is like, the vector storyline, the chime, the killing, like I love Chrissy and the who dies at the end of the first episode. And you thought that she was much bigger. I just feel like I knew I knew she was a thing. I like knew about this actress. I just I was like, very good. Very good. I just thought, wait a minute, I thought that character was going to be way more of a thing from the way people talked about her. No, I think it's just the memorable performance, especially in the scene with Eddie in the woods. Yes. Great. I mean, everyone ships them, right? Oh, yeah. OK. I love that. I think it is that just that one scene that like the legacy of that one scene. But I also love Chrissy and Eddie the way that that relationship echoes or mirrors Jason and Lucas, where there is a blend of clicks. And when you cross those lines, the way that that can cause conflict in a high school of like these two people should not be interacting. And like Lucas has to like choose. He can't be two things. He has to be one or the other. And like both his friends and his teammates are like, you can't be both. You have to choose. And like, I think the scene with Eddie and Chrissy is so much about like I'm expected to be one thing, but people contain multitudes, especially like complicated people like Chrissy and Eddie and the way that they are able to portray that so quickly and so powerfully and so effectively. So many of us either in high school or who have been through high school can relate to that, that it just it just connects like in a supercharged way that they were. And I think it's so it's a real testament to those performances from both actors that they were able to do that in like three minutes or six minutes or whatever. For sure. Yeah. And that was one of the reasons that I think people do defend Jason is his relationship with Lucas, like he does have kind of a mentorship with Lucas. He does have that scene where he's like, we're going to go like I get it. You don't have to come with us if you don't want to because like you knew them, but like it's cool or whatever. So there's that element of it. I think I think also I haven't verified this, but I heard that Caleb, who plays Lucas, has said something along the lines of like, it's funny that people will defend Billy more than Jason when like Billy was racist and Jason clearly isn't. He doesn't have that aspect to him. So, you know, fair. I'm not defending either. I think they're both. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, let's see. There's a little Fred, poor Fred, who's way out of his league with Nancy. Oh, Fred. Good second victim for me. I love that actor. Yeah. You know, he's like in his world, he's confident and like a cervic and sarcastic. Yes. And he's trying to obviously as a crush on Nancy and, you know, trying to squeeze in the Johnathan Nancy stuff. I'm like, whatever. Oh, you like our guy, although. Yeah, I like our guy. I also like our guy. Yeah. Credit to the Duffers and Stranger Things. They are able to introduce characters completely new to each season where you're maybe skeptical at first. And then you're like, I like him. Yeah, I'll Derek like Derek shows up in season five and you're like, no. Well, you instantly love. I was like, who is this? I love him. You literally were like, please tell me we see more of that kid. Now it's like, Chelsea, don't you worry. But yeah, introducing new characters. That's tough. That's hard. But between the performances help a lot. I think Eduardo Franco is very likable as our guy. Easy to make a stoner character annoying. But he does it well. I like that like Jonathan. Yeah, I can see that guy being a stoner, dude. Moving away from all his friends and girlfriend being put in fucking California. Yeah. But that there is that California storyline, which is just so removed from everything because I feel like they just didn't know what to do with those characters, especially Mike. They're like, stick in California and then just have him driving around the desert. I remember one time when you were sitting watching the episode of me, I was like, wait a minute, where's Mike? Yeah. And you were like, dude, he's still driving. He's still in that van. Yeah, I couldn't believe it. Wait, I do want to talk before they all like leave California and go on their weird road trip. I do like watching 11 hit that girl. Yes, I love it. Yeah, we all love that. Yeah, Angela. That feels so good. Fuck that bitch. Oh my God, she would that she'd be so injured. Oh, yeah. Well, they say she had got a concussion. Yeah, which she would have. Yes. But yeah, I mean, the level of bullying. Oh, my God. Choreographed, wipe out milkshake attack. Like, oh, my God, dude. Oh, my God. Brutal, brutal to watch. I mean, the actress who plays her is great because man, I hate her so much. Mm hmm. I also love the action one shot shoot out when they think it's the pizza arriving, but it's Sullivan's guys. Yes, looking for 11 and it's like that whole like unbroken one shot where especially I love it how the agents who are just sitting there watching golf actually spring into action. You see like why they have those jobs. I love that's not just like a flat depiction of like, oh, these fish, fucking agents, it's like, no, they can also. Yeah, business. I just was laughing. Poor Joyce. She could never have a house that doesn't get just fucking trashed. Yeah, I just completely shot windows broken and everything. Season three or four. I mean, Vecna. Yeah, like Vecna. He's good. Yeah, he's cool. Like Jamie Campbell Bauer is so cool. You pretty much knew all along all of it. Like most of it. You knew that when Jamie Campbell Bauer shows up as the intern, you knew that was Vecna. Well, yeah, because I knew Jamie Campbell Bauer was Vecna. OK, and then I think it was like during the Robert England flashback, you were like, oh, I bet his son is Vecna. Well, we spent a whole weekend with that child at a convention. We rode in the shuttle with him. And then and then like you also figured that he was also one, right? Yes. So for me, I don't know what I was doing. But when that was revealed that all four of those were one character, I was like, fucking cinema, dude. I still love it as a reveal. I mean, I figured he was like, oh, there was a one, but it's a sad story. And like we get that far in the season and we have not addressed that again. I was like, OK, well, he's just one. Yeah. Come on. And I think I missed that the sun went into a coma. I think I just. Yes. And they never show because because Robert England's like he kept showing visions and they they show like the mom having visions and they don't. Yeah. But because he's like my son went into a coma and died later. So maybe they just told him that. It's like in spiral when. Oh, yeah. They don't show his partner in shank. They don't show him in the trap. Yeah. And so you instantly figure out that he's the jigsaw copycat. I still think it's cool reveal a great villain, Jamie Campbell Bauer and just like as we've said, having a villain who can talk and emote and you know, say actual things and where that's the fight at the end. Versus like I know I do like that. Yeah, you have like Billy in season three, but the ultimate fight at the end is still with this giant monster, a group monster where I that's when I'm like a sleep on the couch like you have a vacna fight, which is still a little silly. Look, it's all going to be kind of silly, but it's less boring to me because it's like a guy in a suit. Yeah, at least I think it's such a great way of explaining how to do effective VFX where you are using them as enhancements, not whole cloth creation to build on top of the suit to do the tentacles and the you know, like all of that. It's so good and it makes it better instead of being distractingly other and out of place, you know, like there is a guy there in the physical space and you can like feel the physical presence there and it you know, the performance is is also very imposing and looming and he you know, like he's bigger than L and all these, you know, like it's and Max and it's you know, like that aspect of it. I think all really contributes to making him an effective villain, that real physical presence outside of this like looming distant thing. I have seen some people say that they're disappointed that the love crafty and terror of the mind flayer in season two. Well, because it's so big, big and otherworldly is now retconned to actually it was a guy. Actually, it was a guy who made it in his mind palace. Yeah, it was like a human dude who's controlling all this. It's not this otherworldly being. It's just a dude. Yeah, who knows? Who knows if they if they're if that becomes another twist. I've seen some people theorize that. Yeah, because like at the end of season four, the the idea is that Vecna found those swirling particles and made the mind player and so it's been Vecna the whole time actually. We'll see how it all shakes out. We'll see who. Season four feels a bit to me like Max's season. I'm real sad that the running up the hill didn't work for you because I cried my fucking eyes out. I thought it was going to be like the end of the season. It does come at the end of episode four. Shocked that it was so early on. And I think because it had just come like after for me, what was a bunch of TV that like I didn't enjoy that much and also because it was a montage of things that again, for me, I was like, I watched this like yesterday. So like I can't recommend that be the way that you watch it. So yeah, because for me, like I was balling my eyes. Yeah, like that's as you because it's like, you know, if you're watching it as it comes out, you know, you're watching the kids grow up. And also at that point in time, I don't know if she's going to survive. Yeah. You know, and it cuts the black and I'm like, oh, fuck. And you, I'm assuming, figured that Sadie Sink was still in the show and Max was not going to die in that moment. I wonder if maybe they should have had Max die at the end of the season. Like she ends up in the coma. But like just as a and I love Max, maybe my favorite character loves Sadie Sink. God damn, the cast is so fucking big right now. Yeah, like maybe calling. They got a they got a kill a bunch of these kids. They Chelsea was shocked when she started the rewatch and had heard that like none of the kids got a kill. I was I was telling James I was like, dude, I before I started my my binge of all these seasons, I was like, I swear to God, I will see people post a JPEG of like a child I've never seen in my life and be like, God, I hope they don't die in season five. And I'm like, who the fuck is this? Was it Susie? Yes, I was like, who I never see. Who's sister is this? Yes, it's crazy. No, and what's also funny is that she's watching like season one or two. And she's like, Holly doesn't become a character. Right. I was like, no, no, she doesn't. You're good. And then she's like, she's watching season three. Well, I'm one five finally came out and I come downstairs. I'm like, Holly, big character. Yeah, because why not? Yeah, why not? But how do you feel about season four overall? You liked it more than three? I like it. I guess if I ever watched it again, I would just fast forward all the stuff in Russia. That's fair. That's fair. But the other stuff you liked, the stuff, the 11 stuff. How do you feel about the California stuff after 11 separates from? It's fine. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely, I think some episodes just have one or two scenes. Yeah. It moves on because like they're like, I don't know what to do with them, but our guy was fun. My biggest criticism of season four is that it made me think they don't know what to do with these characters, you know? And I wish that the show didn't make me think about that. Sure. You know, but other and, you know, obviously Russia. But otherwise, like it's like, oh, they don't know what to do with Mike. They don't know what to do with, you know, like, but I really liked seeing Brenner and Paul Reiser's characters, like together interact the way that those two are like two sides of the same coin and like they have the same goal, but want to approach it differently. Like I thought that that was really good in the context of L. And the way that the show kind of broadly has this like undercurrent of is it about what it means to be a parent, you know, so like the two of them, that's a cool dynamic. But yeah, I wish that I didn't have to think about the making of it while I was watching it, you know? Yeah, I do like though that four feels way more focused. Yes. And way more like, OK, we have a plan for the end. Yeah. Even if it's retconning stuff in the form of Beckna. Robert England cameo. Great. Good to see him. Love the horror elements. Yeah, really enjoy them. Yeah. The chime so effective. Yeah. Great sound effect. Yeah. Like the kills are pretty gross and good. I was excited to see our friend Mason show up in it. Yes, Mason McCarty. He's a boyfriend who he has lines. I think he has three of them. Yeah. And the end of name. She has a name. Oh, yeah. Shit. What was because later Steve's like that was Dan something like graduate two years. Yeah. Yeah. But that's our buddy from Terrifier three doing their shopping at what was the store? The army war zone. Or why are they all shopping there? Why does everyone shop there? I love the war zone. That bit in your kill count was so funny. War zone. Everyone shops at war zone. All these teens at war zone. Yeah, it's an idea. Reason little Bolly Ring World girl. Yeah. Yeah. What was Vicki doing there? Like the jocks I get the whoever. But what was Vicki doing there at the war zone? Yeah. All right. And now it's time to talk about the first four episodes of season five. So I can hang for two or I can leave. Whatever works for you guys. I don't know if I can remember the I know I'm worried. Let's see. So this was another three year gap between seasons. Much maligned, especially since now these kids are no longer kids. They are in Billy Bobby Brown has a child. Yes. And Lucas has a five o'clock shadow. Like they're all full fledged adults. They're in their past 20 now. And you know, that's just what happens. I feel like I don't. It doesn't bug me. It doesn't bother me that much. The only the only one that's egregious is Holly. Yes, Holly's the worst one. Because season four ends with her mommy mommy snowflakes. It's snowy. And now it's about in story. I think it is a year and a half later because season four is spring of their freshman year. And then I think season five is now. According to the description, it's 87. It is 87. It's November of 87. November of 87. They talk about it being November. Yeah, it's a year and a half later. And that's when, you know, in high school is when these growth spurts happen. So so that doesn't the kids don't bother me, whatever. Holly going from mommy mommy snowflakes to full fledged precocious reading. Wrinkle in time. Yes. Yeah. I mean, it happens shows do that. It's not unheard of to just randomly age up a kid for plot reasons, but it is kind of silly. It also doesn't help the way they style her. I think her hair and makeup kid. She's a very cute little kid as opposed to like the boys in season one. Young kid. Yes. Yes. She seems more polished and like screen tested. Do you recognize her? Oh, she's in a horror movie. She certainly is. How much younger was she? I think it was like two years prior. So not like super young, like you're recognizable, recognizable. Oh, OK. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. She is a British New Zealand actress, if that helps you. Would she have had was she in Wolfman? No. Secret, which she have had her accent in the thing. No, no, doing an American accent. That's impressive, actually. Yeah, for a kid. Yeah. Yeah. So OK, so this is like an actor child. Yeah, yeah. Classically trained. She's British. Yeah, I'm kidding. Oh my God. Is it do I do I like them? Yeah, really? Oh, shit. Do we review it on the podcast? I don't. Did we do it on? I can't remember it in theaters. We did see it in theaters. Have I seen it? No. OK. I don't think so. No, no, no, no. Dude, I don't know. She was the youngest daughter in Evil Dead Rise. Oh, wow. Yeah. Oh, all the kids are great in that. Yeah, they are. Oh, shit. So cool. OK, some some horror cred to her name. Yeah. OK, let's see what the episode is one and two. Well, we get our expo exposition. Dump from rock and robin, which I saw people complaining about this. I don't mind this because you either you either get an exposition dump or you get like not anything happening, especially with the time jump. The series jumps a year and a half. And at the end of season four, even you were like, how the fuck are we going to move on from this? These riffs in the ground. I think they found a good way. The quarantine city. OK, and then having just robin do it all on a radio broadcast, which at first feels like, yes, it's expositioning. It definitely is. But she is also like she says they wanted me to reiterate the rules of the you know, quarantine to people. So that's what I'm doing. So like, yeah, it's fine. I didn't mind this. I thought it was like a cute way to do this instead of having like a character be like, well, you know, you remember when the like there's worse ways to have this happen. Yeah, season four have the what was that? That was writing the letter to Mike, explaining where everyone is. So I don't mind that. You know, I like checking in and seeing where the starting point for the season for all the characters and her and Steve having another job together. Yeah, this time on a radio show, I like. Yeah, I do think it's a funny runner to have them just constantly have different jobs. Yeah, but still together. That's great. The what are the kids doing? Oh, the kids are. Dustin is like protesting the satanic panic by still wearing his hellfire shirt. Oh, I did want to say the scene with him and Eddie's uncle. Oh, yeah, the end of season four. I mean, him and Eddie as Eddie's dying. Yeah, very harp. And then him and the uncle. Yeah, that was like one of the high highs of Stranger Things for me. Absolutely. Because it was like such a good character. Him and Eddie's relationship overall throughout all of season four, I think is so. And I'm glad that it's impacting him so much in season five. Even though. It kind of sucks to watch like Dustin is has always been one of the more positive. Yeah, it's a little bit of self sabotage, I think. Yeah, it kind of like it's like, OK, I get because he's such a dick now to Steve in season five, he's just so I know I hate watching these two. They're just constantly arguing. Yeah, especially because they go from like season three and four having some of the best relationship because you know, it's going to happen. Steve's going to fucking die. I feel like we all think Steve's going to die. I also think that if you kill somebody, it's got to be Steve. Probably going to be Steve, right? Yeah, and that's when they're going to have their moment. Yeah, or it's Dustin or dust. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, he'll be the be the hero. You know, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like Freddie, something like that. One of them is going to die. I feel like there's I think I feel like that's what they're setting up for with them, like being so at odds. Yeah, but I do like, you know, that they're like, Dustin, you can't be being this way. It's going to jeopardize our mission and that ends up yeah. Yeah, yeah, like interfering when he gets beat up by Alex. I think is the name of Andy. Andy, who's the season four? Like it's it's like Jason, Andy and Patrick are the main jocks. The designated survivor. He was vice president of basketball. Yeah, that's why he couldn't be in that room with Jason. He wasn't allowed to be there. Yeah, I love when they are confronting Dustin at the cemetery. They each walk out with like a one liner and the last guy is just like, hi. Yeah, they took all the cool lines. I like that fight scene. Justin does his best. The snake. Oh, they did kill that snake. Yeah, horn snake. But yeah, I like Dustin doing his best to fight back, but still getting his ass beat as he would by these four much larger boys. Erica, my wife, Erica, not sister Erica, Erica, I pointed out that she liked that how Midwestern of a detail it was that the other kids at the school knew it was a corn snake. Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, a harmless corn snake. Yeah, yeah, like the the semi rural town. Like, of course, they'll know. Sure. Yeah. I love that Erica Sinclair is now in middle school, middle school with Mr. Clark. Yeah, I was learning about wormholes. Why are we learning about wormholes? Oh, I don't think we've gotten to that yet. Oh, that might be episode three. Oh, I have not yet seen Erica, but that is not a problematic spoiler. No, I just we always I feel like the topics in the science teachers class are always plot relevant for sure. An animal will adapt to its surrounding. Yeah, stuff like that. So we're talking about wormholes in that class and like even the word time travel is said later. So I'm like, don't fuck this up, stranger things. It was all a D&D campaign that do that. The funniest thing ever. I think they should do that. I think that'd be so funny. Um, they just pull a new heart. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I've seen people say that some people feel the actors aren't into it for season five. I wouldn't blame them. I would. They probably just outgrown these hair. I do for sure. Like, I think these first two episodes, there's too much wheel spinning. I think I think that the first two episodes, it's like two and two hours and 20 minutes, two hours and 15 minutes, something like that, a run time. I think you could cut a lot of it. Well, you made a good point that there's this whole like kind of mini mystery of who's Mr. Watson. It's like it's it's obvious. Yeah, like like the whole first two episodes built to this big reveal that Mr. Watson is Vecna and it was like, oh, guess what, everyone? The villains, the villain. Dude, I think I was smoking crack because I thought Mr. Watson was going to be the ghost of Papa. If only if only they were like, and there's ghosts now. I was like, because I could I would not put it past the show to be like no one's ever dead and we're bringing back Matthew Modine as a ghost. Who talks to kids? Oh my god. Our guy was not there. No, they's not. No, our guy. Yeah, which I'm sad about. I wish he was there, but also I get it because this cast is way too big. So we have it would have been funny if our guy was the one who got instead of Holly, if our guy was the one. Who Mr. Watson? Mr. Watson, yeah, he was the one who got brought to his house and he was like, whoa, there's like he had like every VHS and like yeah. All the cheese. Yeah, you can see so many colors through your window, man. Yeah, I think yeah. Like Jonathan looks out the window and it's our guy was just standing at a fence talking to no one. Yeah. Oh, OK. Yeah. So that's not that out of character. How's episode one end for you? You have said the attack, the attack on the Wheeler house. Yes. Yes. OK. I feel like maybe they should have died. The wheeler parents. I love the Wheeler parents. They are two of my like I love those characters. Mm hmm. Four season five. Why are we attacking them only to have them survive? I was shocked headlift. I'm shocked when they wheeled him in. I'm like what when he got thrown across over the bed. I was like, there are. Here's a here's the thing though. Here's the problem this show has now is the tone of this show. Like the tone that this show has created for itself over the many seasons. It would feel so weird if all of a sudden boom, both those parents are dead because that just doesn't happen on this show. But that's why Ted would have been safe. Yeah, keeping the mom alive. I get sure. But like you could kill Ted. Yeah, I'll tell you. Barely mentioned him. Yeah. Nancy in season four, Nancy's like Vector showed me visions of my mom and Holly and Mike dying. What I do. I do. Yeah. All right, Gressel, you want to pop out? Yeah, yeah, I'll talk about these other two episodes and wrap this boy up. All right, we've kicked Gressel out of the room to talk about the rest of season five because he's not caught up yet. So I do think three and four are way better than one, too. Yes, because three is the one directed by Frank Darabon. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's great to bring him out of semi-retirement to to get going on this. Yeah, you'll have to remind me what happens in each one. OK, so with three, that's Derek, more Derek. I love Derek. I think Derek is so funny. Derek runs up. I think he's in the first episode when he spins Holly's like blast off and he's wearing this dumb ass outfit. And from that moment, Chelsea was like, who's that? Yeah, I want more instant. I love it first sight. That kid is so funny. I love him like dipshit. Derek, I love Derek. I love how fucking funny he is. You said he would excel on Xbox Live. Yeah, he was born too early for online gaming. A fat one. Yeah, he would have been like King of streaming. He would have, dude. He would have had a following. Yes. And I love that. Why is it so far in here? Probably because of all my. He's such a crass little asshole, but then it's fun to see it's because like he comes from this fucking family that's like rich as shit. Probably he comes from like the Matilda family. Yeah, only only like there because they're kind of like low. Yeah, that's true. This is like upper class. Like the dad is always drunk. The mom's on Valium. They probably don't care what they're doing. He has an arcade game in his bedroom. And so it's like, oh, he has no. Guidance. So I love that one. You finally get some and sees that like Joyce fucking defend him from a demogorgon with that axe. He like locks in. Yeah, he's like, all right. Delightful, Derek. He's delightful, Derek. He fucking leads this whole plan. I love him. People are saying he like speed run speed ran Steve's Steven or season one art. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, oh, being from like an asshole to like reliable guy. Yeah. I hope we get more of him. I'm glad people like I've seen on like he's like a fan favorite already. People love him. And it's so funny because like the first I think everyone except for you. The first appearance were like, ah, fuck a annoying little kid. Oh, he's going to be a bigger part of the story. Oh, wait, this kid's this kid's actually great. Yeah. And last we saw him, he was being like carted away by the military unconscious. So I hope we get more of him. Yeah. Or wait, no, no, but I think the demo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All the kids. Yeah, they have all these kids, which who the fuck knows what they're what is it like that wants to make a new army of like psychic kids? I don't know, dude, because like he started with will. So how do you feel about like will be it's so funny? Gresley had no they don't know what they're doing with will. Actually, actually, give him fucking powers. I guess it's cool. Who has a better story? Who has a better story than will the wise? It definitely feels like a brand type thing. But I don't know. I like that they're doing something with him. Yeah, it's nice that that character doesn't feel so tapped on. Yeah, or just kind of useless, you know, not useless, but just kind of like in the background shaking. Yeah. And it's like I like that he and Robin have the scenes together. You need that. Like when when he sees her at the hospital, like I audibly exclaimed when I was watching it by myself, I was like, oh, shit, he's going to find out. Great. Because then he has someone to talk to. Yeah, like that leads to him like finding his powers, you know, that self realization. But three is like that the capturing the demogorgon plan to the tracker plan where they can have the family and then they home alone the whole house, which I love. Yeah, but it's not even a home. It's more like Nancy from Nightmare on Elm Street. Oh, it is. Yeah. And it's Nancy leading the charge, as always. Yeah. And like the pit they make in the in the living room. It's so fun. It goes very well for them. We've isolated L and Hopper in the underground upside down. And that stuff I repeat watch with you. That was when I'm like, oh, we're back here. OK, but, you know, we get Linda Hamilton. Yeah, I don't know the idea of having a base in the upside down is kind of cool. Yeah, that reveal I was like, I that was another audible like, oh, fuck. So that's cool to see. Yeah. I mean, that leads to the reveal. Oh, my God, I can't believe it. And how funny would that have been if I skipped the bottle episode? Because I would have been like, who the fuck is that? And when you asked that, I there was before season five came out. And I was like, no, you got to watch it, you know, just in case. But watching season five by my and what's funny is we started season five. And I was joking. I literally joke. I was like, dude, behind that door is going to be that chick from that episode. I thought that was a serious guess from you. And I just kind of straight faced it. I was I was joking because I was like, that'd be so funny. Because like I did have that thought watching season five by myself. I was like, dude, it's something that's counteracting L's powers. Is it going to be fucking eight? And it was. And like I'm excited to see what they do with her because like otherwise. Yeah, that bottle episode completely skippable. What's the purpose? If they actually folded into having like a purpose in the end game. Good. Yeah. Now you have to watch it. Now you have to. Why does Vecna look so weird and different? He looks more CG when he pops out at the end. He doesn't look like the same guy in a suit type thing. God, I'm calling him calling out Zempick Vecna because he's skinnier. Oh, yeah. He's also got more like, I don't know, spines. Yeah, yeah. He does that awesome kill with that guy with his hand. That, yes, the hand through the face through the face. That was pretty cool. It was really fucking cool. Yeah, more of that, please. I did like that one with all the is the most I've ever liked. The Demogorgons was they look great. And they do look good in the multiple attack. And yeah, that one or where it's going around like all the different spot. Yeah, it's like it's like an update. They did it in four with the shootout. And then it was like, they were like, oh, let's do that again, but bigger. And I like that. Yeah, I like season five so far. I think maybe I'm just at this point. So my brain is just stranger things sludge that like. I think anything that's not seasons two or three or anything in Russia. I'm like, great, I love it. It's great. It's good. Yeah, no more Russia, which is awesome. Yeah, Holly. Do you like Holly and her promotion to a bigger character? I'm curious where it's going. I mean, did you see Max coming back that way? No, I was surprised by that. Yeah, I'm curious because I I did read the synopsis of the Stranger Things Broadway play. OK. And I do think that we are going to get some tie in there. OK, in the Holly Max storyline, because I'm reading that synopsis. I was like, oh, OK, I have to do that because the flashback with our friend Birdie as Joyce is also a nod to some things that happen in the Broadway play. OK, maybe I'll read that. I've also ordered a wrinkle in time, so I can read that and just look for clues. Oh, I feel like that's a big like they're referencing that a lot. They are. Yeah. I read that when I was a kid. I would totally reread it. And also, yeah, our friend Birdie. We met her at a convention last year, earlier this early this year. Yes, because she is dating Mason McCarty from End of Stranger Things 4 and Terrifier 3. And so they're together. He's at conventions doing signings. We meet both of them. She's awesome. They're both awesome. And she's like she's in that hallway and we're like, is there more? There's I hope there's more. I really hope there's more. Because otherwise, why have it? I know, I hope there's more. But even if there's not, that's still so fucking cool. Because she looks just like you. She looks exactly like her. Yeah, I love Birdie. She's so cool. We're going to see them when they visit soon. But yeah, like why else show young Joyce? Because the poster that she was handing out for her Oklahoma play says Henry Creel as Curly. And so it's like that that was one of the complaints I saw is that in the final battle, Vecta just kind of tosses Joyce aside, doesn't kill her. And you made the good point that like, well, they went to high school together. Maybe she was nice to him. They were in the drama program. Yeah, and the Broadway show, there's like. Stuff involved with that. OK, awesome. Anything else from season four? They drive the the car. Steve drives it into the upside down. Well, Dustin keeps yelling at him. Oh, yeah, Jonathan's going to try to propose to Nancy with a little bandaid. No, this is why I don't think she's going to end up with either. I think that this is the nail in the coffin because like it's so ill advised to try to do this now. Because even at the end of four, they're like, are we good? Yeah. Yeah. It's not romantic at all. Yeah. And then it like it feels kind of regressive to have the two of them fighting over Nancy again like they were in season one. But I don't know. Yeah. I do think they've toned down Robin a little bit. There's some like nitpicky things I feel about the writing. Just a little piece of dialogue, but like to explain it would be real nitpicky. And I don't want to go that long because we're already long. So I don't know. I like season five so far. I'm excited to see where it goes. I'm excited to see how it ends. And I think the end with Will is pretty cool. I thought it was pretty cool killing the Demogorgons like Vecna kills people. Are we? I just like, are we going to be time traveling, dude? Don't do time travel. I don't. I say do it. Let's get weird. Fuck it. OK, if they do it, then you can't complain because you're saying to do it. I'm like, dude, don't fucking because it's so risky. It should all be a dream. Fuck it. I just want to see how mad people get. That's cool. Oh, yeah. Robin and Vicki are dating. Yes, it's cute. I like it. Yeah, I like them together. All right, let me go get Gressel. All right, Gressel's back behind the console. That is all of Stranger Things. Yeah, up to this point. Yeah, all of Stranger Things so far. All of Stranger Things so far. That's right. Yeah. Even even if it's not your favorite thing, I'm really glad you've done this so that we can watch the remaining episodes together in real time. I'm really excited about that. It's been fun hearing your opinions and talking to you about it, because especially just, you know, when I do the kill counts, they encompass so much of my brain space that like I just like have to be invested in it. And so it's nice to be able to share that with you finally, as opposed to just being like, yeah, in Stranger Things, Lucas is cool. I'm excited to now do something else that's not what Stranger Things. Literally, yeah, has been your entirety. Yes, like the past week. And I'm, you know what, like after I'm going to try to do the season five kill count as soon as possible, because once that's done, I'll probably never engage with this show. Yeah, unless we go see the Broadway show. Yeah, you know, I mean, if they do a spin off, whatever, but like it is nice to just be able to close a book on something, you know, and just be like, OK, that was a thing that's now over with. Because we didn't even really have that with Game of Thrones because the books never were finished. So even though the show ended very poorly, there was still there's still always that aspect of like there might be more in the future. Even though I don't believe that. But it'll be nice to have the completion of something that I, for the most part, enjoyed. Yeah, we can try and see it in theaters. I'll try to. It's on New Year's Eve. Yes, we've got a party to set up for. That's tough. But maybe we can make it happen. I want to. It'll be a cool experience. Yeah. And to have like a crowd reacting to things, I think would be fun. Yeah. Yeah. Well, cool. All right. That's it for this week. Thanks so much for joining us until next time. I'm Chelsea. I'm James. And that's Grussell. And this has been the Dead Meat Podcast.