Owning Your Problems Is the Key to Unlocking Your Future (With Jade Warshaw)

Sam will tell you, living with Jade is hard, because Jade does not let anything slide. What does it get you? Reality, it's the life happening around it that makes it more crushing. If I can not be in that role, I love it, but if I have to, trust and believe, like... Yeah, yeah, I will, yeah. Hey, what's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloni show, coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee. Normally we take calls from real people going through real challenges, and we sit down and figure out what's the next right move. We pull up a seat at the table, and on today's show, I actually have somebody pull up a seat at the table. It's somebody I've traveled the country with, somebody I've done live events with, somebody I've shared meals with, and somebody, I'm going to be honest with you, I thought I knew really well. And I'm talking about my friend Jade Warshaw. She is a powerhouse, and she's got a new book out called What No One Tells You About Money, and we're inundated. We're inundated with money books, money headlines, money... Here's what you do, here's what you do with your money, whatever. Nobody talks about what it feels like when you open up your account, or when you're sitting there trying to make this thing called a budget, or when you're just, you get your paycheck and it's already gone. Nobody talks about that despair. Nobody talks about what it's like to look up and actually add up all the money you owe somebody else, all the banks, all the car dealerships, and to realize, I'm never going to be able to have kids. I'm never going to be able to buy a house. And Jade's got a pretty extraordinary story where her and her husband worked through it all, but this conversation is easily the most raw conversation I've had on the show. There's lots of tears shed, there's lots of hard questions asked back and forth, and it's one of the most powerful conversations I've ever been a part of, period, much less recorded. And so if you are one of the millions and millions and millions of Americans, or anybody all over the world, who you're reading all these money headlines and yadda yadda, but dude, the headlines don't capture what's going on inside your chest at your kitchen table, when you can't pay your bills, or when you're like, dude, my kid can't go to that school, or I have to decide between light this month or food, or I want my kid to be able to go to this college or this school, and it's never going to happen, or I'm never going to be able to buy a house because of the crushing weight of all this stuff. If you ever feel that, I've felt it, dude, I've pasted my house at night, not knowing how I'm going to pay my bills, and I've not, outside of a few other times, I don't really have ever felt that alone. And so if this is you, and I know it's a lot of y'all listening, I want you to pull up a seat and listen to this conversation with me and my friend Jade. It will give you some light in the darkness, and it will make you feel less alone. Jade's new book, What No One Tells You About Money, comes out January 6th. That's my birthday, so for my birthday, I want you to buy this book, and I want you to read it, and I want you to read it with your friends, with your spouse, and you'll pull up a seat and exhale, and maybe for the first time in a long time, not feel so alone, and more importantly, or equally importantly, you're going to have a roadmap out. It's a real roadmap that Jade cut out in the forest with a machete, her and her husband Sam. Like, they created a path that you can follow, and it's a path to freedom. So pull up a seat, get your friends around. This is safe for your kids to listen to, like, this is a good one, and this is a powerful one. Thank you for joining me and my friend Jade Warshaw for an important, powerful conversation. I've known you for several years now. We've traveled the country together. Yeah. Our desks are, like, down the wall from each other. Yeah, yours is by the window. I'm a little reason full of that. It's cool, man. Like, one of the last remaining. Tell me about Jade growing up. Oh, my gosh. Jade growing up. Okay. You know, I feel like I can tell you from other people's perspective, because, like, when you're a kid, you're just, like, in your life, you're not, like, thinking about it. Yeah. Okay, do this. Like, you're a parent, you got two kids, your mom. Mm-hmm. Take that view towards... Very... 6'9", 10". Oh, yeah. Very creative, very imaginative. Always had ideas that were, like, a little bit different. Yeah. About what? Like, I remember distinctly having this idea that I wanted to be an architect, and I wanted to design my own home, and I wanted... Basically, what I had in my mind was a tiny house today. Yeah, yeah. And I wanted to design this own place and just live completely by myself, and, like, that was an idea that I had. Yes. And when we moved to Tennessee as a family, we were, like, coming around to Ben, and there was, like, a little tiny, like, shack, and I was like, What is it? Like, that's the tiny house. I want to live it. Like, it was like, I saw it come true, and my family was like, No, you don't want to live there. Like, that's sad. But anyway. So was creativity celebrated, or are you a weird kid? Uh, I think that it wasn't un-celebrated, but it also wasn't invested in. So, like, for me growing up, it was, like, sports. Like, if you could excel in sports, we'll invest in that, we'll get you what you need, we'll be at the games, but, like, music? Not as much. So, while I loved sports, and I loved basketball, loved volleyball, loved jump roping, I also really loved singing and loved the arts, but my mom, it was like, my mom was the singer. So, like, I never felt like I wanted to really show them that I could do that, because I felt like I'd have to be, like, compared with my mom. My mom's an amazing singer. And so, I used to hide that, and I thought that if I sang under the covers, nobody could hear me. What was, is that weird being in, I mean, that's a, like, a pretty astute understanding at a young age, like, I'm competing. Everything was a competition. Tell me about that. Um, so, okay, so my dad was a football coach, so there's that. Like, there's coach. Like, what ages was he coaching? My whole, like, my whole, like, young life. I was born into him coaching. Um, and I was born into him coaching. I was born into him coaching, um, at Eastern Washington University before that, he was at Nebraska. Yeah. So, and then when I was first, second, third grade, he was at Oregon State, so, like, coaching, coaching. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we... Not like YMCA coaching, but like a professional college coach. Professional college coach, uh, Pac-10, like, legit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, because of that, like, the nature of that life, you do move a lot. So, like, I was born in Washington, moved to Oregon, moved to Kansas, moved to Illinois, moved to Tennessee. We were supposed to move to Texas, but my dad moved because we had already moved so much that he went on his own. Um, and because of that, like I said before, it's like, you're going to these cities, you have to make friends. And for me, I was always, like, all of those parts of the country, like, I was always the only black kid in my class. Yeah. Sometimes, like, in the entire school. Yeah. And so, for me, the first thing was like, how can I make friends? Yeah. Like, I can't, like, because it was a competition, like, I've got to be able to fit in, I've got to be able to make friends, I've got to be better than the other options. Otherwise, I'm going to get left out, I'm going to get made fun of. Yeah. So, it's like, hey, now I can prove to them, like, I can be really great at sports, really talented, like, all of these things to prove that I'm, like, up here. And so, that's how it got to be for me. Like, I can't just play basketball, I have to be the best one on the team. Yeah. I can't just be the best one on the team, I have to be the captain of the team. But usually that social pressure, I'll say usually, sometimes that social pressure, you come home and you can drop your shoulders. But if you walk in the house and I'm also competing with mom, I'm also competing with dad, that's heavy. I don't know that I was in my head competing with them, but I definitely, I know this is, I can't let this part of myself be seen because that's theirs. A little bit of that, a little bit of that. I'm sorry, I know what I want to say, but I'm deciding do I want to say it. You said it and we can edit it out. I also know, like, I had, I felt like I did have a very clear role to play in my house. It wasn't necessarily as, like, my brother was the jester, like, he was the one that was like comic relief. But I feel like I was the one that was like, I have to keep everything together, like, I have to keep everything balanced if they're angry, like, I got to make it right. If there are this, I got to, so I have to be like good grades, you know, not getting in trouble, not like that was my role is like, I'm going to be straight ahead. If you ask me, Jade, clean up the kitchen, I'm going to do a perfect. If you say Jade, get dinner started when you get home, I'm going to do a perfect like that. That was my role because I didn't want anything to like, I want, like peacekeeper, like I don't want anything to disrupt it. How is that shown back up in your adult life? I feel like it's gone the opposite direction. Now I don't care about keeping peace at all. I'm like, I am the most truth teller that I can be because I spent a lot of time covering things. So now I'm like almost to a fault. I feel like I have to say what it is. And in this role, it served me well. Yeah. What was that switch? Most people never make that switch until their marriage is an ash. Probably getting married, probably being married and understanding that you have to live in reality if you want a marriage to work. Yeah, most people don't. It took me like being married 15 years for us like, oh, we're about to not be married anymore. But if you see, if you see the opposite, then you know, like we all take things from our past, right? Most of the times we're like, oh, you know, my parents, they taught me this and this and this and you're like naming all these wonderful things. But you can also learn so much of what not to do. I don't want to do that. Yes. And I mean, listen, my kids are going to learn things from me of what not to do. I hope they learn more of what to do. But you can either look at this stuff that was like negative and go, oh my God, I can't believe this happened. Or you can go, hey, I just got a crash course and what I'm not going to do. And that's so great to be able to know that like they're all learnings and they're all it's all research. So I knew I'm like, we must like and Sam will tell you know, Sam, Sam will tell you living with Jade is hard because Jade does not let anything slide. I don't let anything slide. And sometimes he's like, can we just like, can you please? What is holding it so tight? What does that get you? Reality. Like living in reality. Like, I'm like Judge Judy. I'm like, don't feel my like tummy is raining. Like that is my number one thing. I cannot stand it. I can't stand it. And my, so when I came here to Ramsey, I started seeing a therapist and she told me she was like, you know, for you Jade, she was like, you just want, you just want somebody to hear something and verify that it was true. Because when you were a kid, nobody acknowledged anything. And I was like, yes. And so you go in your head and you're like, after a while, when nobody, when something happens and nobody acknowledges it, after a while you're like, did I make that up? Or like, did I, did I? And so I, I hate that. And so now in reality, if something happens, I'm going to be like, oh, why did you lie? Or why did I lie? Or, you know, like, I just, I just say it because I want to know that it was said and I want to know that I acknowledged it. And it was like marked as, yeah, that happened. You know, I'm like that. I know you've seen it. No, I'm, I'm, I'm just not playing games out here. Is that exhausting? No, it's easy. It's so liberating. Why would it be hard? Why is it hard? Let me say this way, let me say this way. Not easy, but in our current world. And by the way, this is my favorite. One of my favorite things about you. It's why I consider you someone I trust. That comes at a cost. Is that, that makes sense? Yeah, then they weren't supposed to be by me anyway. I know, but that's lonely though. Do you think or no? And I get what I'm saying. It sounds like what I'm saying is I'd rather be surrounded by a bunch of people who kind of don't know, then, then have nobody. Right? Uh-huh. It's an exhausting, when you feel like you're the only person in any environment, any relationship, anything, always calling it out. That's exhausting. Or maybe it's freeing. For me, it doesn't feel exhausting. Somebody's got to do it. Um, somebody's got to do it. And let's be honest, most of us only have a couple of really close friends anyway. Right. So everything else is like outer layer stuff. Like it's nice to have, but the people who know me best, my husband. My sister. My buddy, you know, I have a couple of buddies that like they know me and they have never been like, hey, Jade, you're a little too honest. They've never said that. They've always accepted me as I am. Yeah. And so I'm fine with that. And like anybody else, if it makes them uncomfortable, it's because they're probably trying to hide something. Or they're trying to play me and I'm like, why are you trying to play me? Don't do that. If the whole world operated like you, we would get, we would be able to operate at a much higher level. That's awesome. Well, that's very, that is very kind, probably overly kind, but I'll take it. No. I struggle with the balance of saying something and then letting something just happen. That makes sense. And so like I, it's a, it's a daily thing for me to live in reality. It's a, it's a practice for me, but also is the reality of me saying this thing. Is that going to get me the reality? Or do I need to have, I remember talking to one guy and was like, the only thing worse who hated conflict. And as a professional, I mean, he does conflict for a living. He's a famous guy, but I remember him saying, the only thing I hate worse than conflict is going to bed knowing you didn't tell the truth today. And it's a war inside him. Right. And so I, I wrestle with that. Like I need to speak up here and say something or everybody in this room knows how insane this is. I'm going to let this play land because I know it's going to land because this is madness. Right. I wrestle with that. Well, I mean, let's get one thing straight. If, if, if you, and I will say that I, I was guilty of this. If I'm this way and it's only towards other people, then I'm just critical. Right. I'm just always going, well, you, this is what you did. This is what you said. Da, da, da, da. Um, I had a really good friend. You need, you need good friends. I had a really good friend that she was like, man, you're hard to know. She was like, you're just, she's like, she was like, you just, it takes, she said, it takes so long to get to know you. And this was years back. And I was like, I don't know what you mean by that. And then I had another friend. I asked another friend and she was like, yeah, she was like, think about it. We knew each other 10 years before we were really good friends. Like, like really. And I was like, huh. And then I asked another friend and they were like, yeah, like, so I got, I got the verification. And then I had kids and that, that's really what I think changed that of like, hey, I can't just be like laser focused on what everybody else is doing and calling out. Like I have to, uh, even though I'm doing that within myself, I have to be open to other people so that it doesn't just come across as man, Jade is critical. Jade is just like really tough. She's nice, but she's like tough to, she's like a hard nut to crack. Right. And, um, yeah, it took a friend to be like, like, you need a hug or like you need to give some people a hug, like that kind of thing. And I really do give her credit for like saying that. Um, and then like having kids that, that also helped that. Cause now it's like coming here. I would never have had this interview with you. But now I'm like, what do you want to know? Yeah. What do I have to hide? I don't have anything to hide. All right. This time of year, we are giving away our time, our money, our sleep. And sometimes without meaning to, we're giving away things way more personal, our data. And that's why I recommend delete me. Listen, I like a good deal as much as the next guy, but I want you to remember, and I got to remind myself every email click, every newsletter I sign up for. I'm handing a piece of my personal life. You're handing a piece of your personal life to someone else. And that information doesn't just stay with them. Shady data brokers, grab it, bundle it and sell it, your name, your phone number, your address, all of that is floating out there in the digital wilderness. And people are gathering it up and selling it. 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DUTCH.com slash Deloni, use code DELONI. You went to college on a full ride. Yeah. Absolutely. You meet this guy who I love. What was it about this Sam guy that you were like, I'm going to do the rest of my life with that guy? He was totally different than everybody that I'd ever met. I didn't know until just now your dad was a college football coach. I can't think of a more not Sam thing. Complete opposite. Sam is my grandfather. Tell me about that. I remember reading once that a lot of girls try to find a guy like their dad and marry their dad. Sounds weird, but you know what I mean? No, totally. I remember talking to Sam. This was after, a little after we'd gotten married and we were talking about that. He was like, I am not your dad. I was like, no, you're not. I thought for a minute and I was like, oh, you're my grandfather. My grandfather, I didn't get to see him as much as I wanted to because he lived across country, but he was always just very steady. He never got worked up that I saw. His tone was always right here. He was always saying something reasonable. Nothing really ruffled his feathers. In my mind, that was such a steady Eddie. That Sam is number one, the only person that could be married to me and vice versa possibly. You know him. He doesn't go. I call him a walking Xanax. Yeah, he just doesn't. He's just right there. But his right there is not aloofness. It's kindness and generosity. Insane, really perceptive generosity. Absolutely. He's very sensitive. He's very aware of what's going on. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So you've got this story and we won't rehash it much here because you told the story and I want people to read your new book. You go to college, you got a full ride, you take out a bunch of student loans because it's just free money and we're 18 right and then you get married to a guy that also has his own stuff. Right. You all sit down and you all are pretty close to owing together and your new life together, half million bucks. And a hodgepodge of stuff. Student loans and cars. Yeah, mostly student loans by far. Yeah. Well, what's the moment? Like there has to be that add up moment where this stuff all, because you're not talking about this couple of weeks ago, like there's a million, a million books, a million voices, a million people trying to tell the story about, you should do this with your money. This should do this to psychology of money. And it says all that's fine and good. Yeah. Nobody has tells the story of, oh God. Yeah. Yeah. That gets left out. Everybody wants to run to the path and here's what you do, but nobody tells the truth about like, like the life that's happening around it. I owe half a million dollars. Yeah. For most, like I owe 300 or $200,000. Right. Right. It's that, but it's the life happening around it that makes it even more like crushing. Tell me about that. We mean. Because, okay, so when we got married, it was about a week after graduation, you know, when you get married or when you graduate, student loans aren't due till you've got that grace period, right? Okay. So, nothing was due yet, but it was 2007 going into 2008 Great Recession. So, it was like right as we were turning the corner to 2008, everything starts gas prices are crazy, real estate markets holding in. That's when the student loan payments started coming in the mail. And it was like first mine came and then his started coming and I was like, oh, holy hell, like what is going on? That was when that was the first, like I'll call that the first crack of when I was like, hey, like, I know my student loans like it was like bills would come and we was like whoever saw the bill would pay it, but it wasn't like we weren't having conversations about it. Our money was combined, but we weren't talking about money. So, it's like the bill comes. Yeah, I see it. I'll pay it. Firestone. Oh, that's a credit card. Okay, I'll pay it. You know, Chevron, you have a credit card for your gas. That's kind of weird, but okay. Yeah. Let's pay it. Express. You have a credit card for clothes. Oh, all right. I'll pay it. Student loans. Holy moly, like that. How much are your student loans? Like, so that's how it started happening is seeing the bills come in. And I was like, I remember one day I was like, hey, I need to know exactly how much your student loans are because your bills are high. And he was like, oh, it was like, I think they're like around 120. Like I remember, I remember we signed one for 120. So it was like, as I would ask him, I could tell he really didn't know. Like he had an idea, but he really didn't know. And let me pause here. That right there is an important thing that like we go through dating for four or five years. We are two or three, however long you're dated, we meet each other's families, we do holidays, we fall for each other, we go get married, we may do premarital counseling, we do all the stuff. And we don't know that part. No. Right? No, I mean, I don't even know what I'm walking into. Yeah. It didn't even occur to any of us to ask that question. Yeah. That's a wild thing. It is. It is. It tells me what's so backwards about how we do love now, which is how do you feel first? And then the rest of it, like you say, we don't have to deal with reality because the only thing that matters is how we feel about each other. No, no, no, there's a reality to this. Geez. So he doesn't know the number. He doesn't know the number. And like the more I asked him, like the more I realized like, oh, this is a pain point. There's something there. And I kind of got to the point where I was like, are you keeping it from me? Like, do you really know? And you're just not telling me because I could see that he was getting agitated about it. But truly he was probably getting agitated because me being me was like, how much is like, how much are the loans? You know, so early on, I will be honest, like early on my personality versus his personality, I wasn't the most tactful. Okay. Like I am going to say that. And so that didn't really do anything to help him want to divulge something very like vulnerable. Like, hey, I have a lot of student loan debt. So I didn't help that process. And it wasn't until a couple of like really like one or two years later, we'd gone, we had moved down to South Florida and his grandfather had passed away and left him a little bit of money. There was supposed to be a lot of money, but because of the great recession, they cashed out at the bottom. And so it was like crazy. Well, anyway, we were there at the house. And he had just gotten access to the money. And it was like, okay, we're going to use this to pay off some student loans. And it was like $30,000. And I remember like hearing somebody like reading off like the different debts. And that kind of struck me as like, well, which one do we want to put this $30,000 on? Meanwhile, I'm like, I only have $30,000 of debt. Like that, I remember specifically like where I was sitting in the living room that struck me. I was like, oh, there's more here than I thought. And so that's... And remember being 22 or 25, like $30,000 is a million dollars. That's a lot. That's a million dollars. That's a ton. Especially in a check. Yes. Because I was thinking, oh, he's going to get this money. Like maybe we're going to like pay off all these debts. No, no, no, no. Like that, that was just a small piece. And that's when I realized it. So that was a, that was an eye opener moment for me that I didn't really share much with him because it was just, I'm like around his family. And I'm just like picking up this information. It wasn't until we had moved into an apartment and I remember just having like a moment of, we have no money. Like something's wrong here. And so I was like, hey, I remember there was this guy Dave, like he has a book. Let's go to Barnes and Noble and get it. It was total money makeover workbook. Went to get it. And there's a part in there where you're supposed to like list out your debts. And like it's kind of like walking you through exercises. And like I still have the book and you can see the point where it was like no more of this. Like the writing in the workbook just stopped because I remember in that moment we were starting to list out the debt and it was so overwhelming that it was like, if I see this number, I'm going to give up. Yeah. And you can't give up. But most do. Because it's so big. Yeah. Because after 400,000, it's $5 million. I mean, it's a monopoly money at that point. Right. I mean, it's like when you start writing down, it's funny you say that I was in a Barnes and Noble when I went and got the workbook. That's where I went. Yeah. And, but I guess the conversation I've never heard had is like the pacing around the middle of the night. Like the, I can't eat. And like I remember Sheila, my wife not knowing. Yeah. I remember she would, she just would go to sleep. Yeah. And I was like, I don't, we don't have any money. You know what I mean? Like I don't have. I do know. I was like, it was wild. Right. I do know. So how's the reckoning conversation happen? Because there has to be like a, we're writing this down. Um, it was kind of like. It was kind of like. Let me know, let me know what's over this. Like you take me back here because you're here now. Like you're, you're there now. Like you're looking at this workbook is Sam sitting with you. Yeah. We're sitting, we're sitting together in our apartment and we're going through the numbers and it was like at a certain point I was like, okay, close the book. We already know what we have to do. Like we don't need to just sit and list this out and get more depressed. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like probably the smartest thing I know. Like over here we teach list all your debts, write them all out. If I had written out all the debts that night, John, it would have been curtains. Like that's it. Like we're not, I don't know what that would have meant, but I think we would have been so overcome. I don't think we ever would have started. And so it was like, okay, forget that. Like we just need to work and like make a lot of money. Like we need to just figure out ways to make money because that's the only thing that's going to get us out of this. And so we came out of that, uh, we came out of that knowing, okay, we're going to do this baby step thing. Our first course of action is figuring out how we can make more money. Um, and then it kind of like the way I think of it in my mind is like then somebody turned the lights out because right about then we went to work on ships and it was like we had this thing in our mind that we were like ready break, like look at each other in the eye. And then it was like my grandfather died a little while later. Sam's dad died and it was like dark for a couple of years. And like in the darkness we were like toiling and like doing stuff, but there was, it wasn't like, it wasn't like that. It was like we're just, it's like when you, somebody calls you in the middle of the night and, and you're just like putting your clothes on real quick. You don't even turn the lights on. You're just like, but suddenly you, it was like doing that for three. You wake up in the car and you're a mile away from your house. Yeah. Yeah. And it was, and then it was like a couple of years past and the lights turned back on. And then it was like, okay, where are we? Whenever, whenever somebody dies and, and to be more married, somebody passes away, kid or a parent and never they come over to my house and say, what do we do next? The first question I always have is do you all want to stay married? Because people grieve differently. Yeah. And that's the tension. I can't believe you're not over this yet. I can't believe you haven't moved on yet. And that starts numbing behaviors that go like this, right? How did you all stay? Cause that's a lot on top of a lot on top of a lot. Cause as you're describing it, I'm realizing my marriage is not safe. I'm realizing this guy just pledged my life to O's what and that didn't know. And then I lose this man that is the paternal figure in my life. And then he loses that. That's a lot for a young couple to absorb. That's a lot for a couple of married for 30 years to absorb. Yeah. Um, I don't know that we did a good job of it. Like, I mean, I'm not going to sit here and be like, well, I just every morning, we have. No, I mean, I tell you right now, like sometimes I think back on it and I'm like, I just didn't know how to handle it. It was a lot going on. Um, things I can't say in this room. Sure. And I don't, I didn't know what to do. I didn't. I mean, he didn't know what to do either. I think it, you mean at that point, totally staying alive. Staying alive man. Like, I mean, I love Sam and that's all there is to it. And he loves me and the best advice I ever got and as, as like, I don't know, like as simple as it may sound, it was the best advice I ever read. It didn't somebody didn't tell me I read it. It was like, you have to remember goodwill. And at the end of the day, you have to remember like this person I married, are they, do I really think like, cause stuff is going to happen all the time, right? Like you hurt Sheila's feelings, Sheila hurts your feelings. You know, something's happened at the end of the day. It's like, if I'm really honest with myself, do I really think this person's out to hurt me or do I think that they have goodwill towards me and they're just struggling. But somebody can have goodwill and that doesn't make them safe to anchor into it. It doesn't, but it does make it make you not make them the bad guy. Yeah. Right. Like, and that was the thing I think he had to remember about me and I had to remember about him is, Hey, I have goodwill towards you and you have goodwill towards me. There are things in our past that have really jacked with how we are able to process problems. But at the end of the day, you're doing the best you can, I'm doing the best I can. And we might be like, not able to be there for each other in the way that each of us needs right now, but no one's going anywhere. And that was one of the things that we said, one of the things we said like early on is like, I'm not going anywhere. I'm just not. And I, and I knew that about him too. And so it almost, it would be a curse. Bro, I'm like, I wish you, I wish you would go. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So much here. It's, I'm also, and he's not here to defend himself. I'm also, I cannot imagine the, the only word I can think of right now. I can't imagine the shame I would feel. Yeah. Like trying, trying to stay like I'm a husband and we're not, we're going to have to postpone having kids. We're going to have to postpone this house. I'm going to have to postpone this. I'm supposed to, it was a problem financially. She's worse off because she's with me. Like that would, I remember, because I emotionally, I was like that from my wife. Yes. You are worse off because you're with a crazy guy. Yeah. And that, like, I felt like every day I was waking up with already like a ruck bag on. You know what I'm saying? That was my biggest, that shame was the biggest fear I had in our marriage. His or yours? Mine. Because I saw it and I mean, I'll say, when I was writing the book, this was the story, this was the part that I, that I, I, I knew I wanted to write about, but it was very hard because, and I said to someone, I was like, Hey, I'm putting this in here. He was like, yes, because I think that this is what people feel and they don't say it. Like shame is such a, it's such a secret. Like it's like it wants to be your biggest, like your deepest, darkest secret, right? That you're, you have become this identity. And even though like in the light of day or like in conversations, it'd be like, all right, ready, break. Like we're on the same team. Like we're paying off our debt. I just, and I'll never ring, I'll just never forget this John, because it, it was like, it went into my soul. We, okay. So at the time we were living in a townhouse. It was my mother-in-law's townhouse. She was letting us rent it at, at cost and we had roommates. Roommates were living downstairs and we were living upstairs and my husband was in the, you know, it was nighttime. We were getting ready for bed. He was in the bathroom brushing his teeth and he was just, I would say, I was, I was walking by the bathroom and I could see him in the, in the mirror. He was just standing there brushing his teeth, but he was like, like his eyes were like gone. I mean, they were gone. Yeah. They're good. I just never saw that. I'd never seen that level of despair. And I, in my mind, I was like, it's my job to make sure he keeps his life. Yeah. This is my job. Yeah. And that, it was my job for five years. And I remember one time I told him, I was like, the hardest conversation I had with him, I was like, I got a, I feel like I can't carry this anymore. Like I feel like, and he, cause he didn't know I never said anything, but like I was afraid. Like I was like, man, he doesn't see his, I just was, I just told him, I was like, listen, I'm afraid you're going to take your life, like flat out. Yeah. And he was like, I understand that. Yeah. And so saying that stuff out loud, that's the stuff, that's the stuff that eats you alive. Yeah. And that's what shame does. It makes you feel like you're just not worth being. Yeah. And that you've ruined everything and that your very existence is messing up somebody else's existence. Yeah, you're a burden. You're a burden. And that's just not true. Yeah. It's just not. And that was the hardest part. But that's not in the numbers, right? That's the thing. That's not in the math. Right, it's not in the math. And that's, that for me is what's been missing from all of this. Bro, there's people on the other side of this. Yeah. All right, let me tell you about Hallow, the number one Christian prayer and meditation app in the world. You all know this, my life is chaotic. I'm a dad, I'm a husband, I'm a speaker, I'm a writer, I'm all over the place. And every morning I like to start and recenter myself in the same way. I listen to the daily gospel on Hallow every morning in the car. It lets me pause, breathe. And while the cars are whipping by me or I'm whipping by them, it allows me to settle into my day. It's one of those non-negotiable starts. It's a reset button for my head and for my heart. And then at night, sometimes when my brain's still spinning, I'll put on one of Hallow's sleep meditations or a nighttime devotional. This is how things slow down and I quit fighting my own thoughts and I close my day with something positive. Hallow has daily devotional thoughtful meditations about prayer and leading a spiritual life all in one place. It helps me pause and reflect instead of just reacting to everything. Bottom line, Hallow helps me make space for peace with ancient wisdom. And I need that, we all do. So if you want to anchor your day, I want you to go check out Hallow. Right now when you sign up at Hallow.com slash D'Aloni, you get three months of the app for free. That's Hallow, H-A-L-L-O-W, dot com slash D'Aloni for three full months for free. Here's where for me, and I've told you this privately, but you're a person that I hold what I would call anchored respect for and I reserve that for very few people. And the cultural air we breathe is whatever it is, it's not fair. That's the air we breathe. It's not fair. It shouldn't have happened. And because it's not fair. What's fair? Anything that makes me uncomfortable or anything that shouldn't have happened that way. From, I shouldn't have been abused as a kid, you're right, it's not fair. To, my dad worked long hours to put food on the table, that was a fair, whatever. All the way to, hey, we were too dumb, 18, 19, 20, 21 year olds who signed up for a million different things because the college counselor just kept telling us to sign up and sign up. And we did. And we had a fun four or five years. And now we have a million dollars. It's not fair. Or I took this, I did this, I did, like it's not fair. And so I'm going to war against the system. I'm going to war against these people. I'm going to do everything but look in the mirror and say, I think I can. Or regardless of whose quote unquote fault it is, I'm the one who has to choose what I'm going to do next. Looking at your husband, that's, my show wouldn't exist if people didn't get there and leave. What's the alternative? Like that's my, that was always my question. My show exists because people take the alternative path. Like, oh, I'm not handling that. That's your problem or you shouldn't have or you need to go get help instead of saying, all right, for the next few years, like, I'm going to be your oxygen tank because we're going to get through this together. Right. Well, that's when I had to go back to the childhood of this is what I do. Gotcha. This is my job. My job is to make everything. Okay. Okay. And I know, like, listen, I know how to wear that hat. And so I did. Would you do that differently? No, it was necessary. It was necessary growing up and it was necessary then. Okay. And one of the great things that my dad taught me is he always told us, you're the leader. When you walk in the room, you're the leader. That's what he always told us. And so you should carry yourself as such. Gotcha. And so in those moments, there's a part in my body that goes, you're the leader. Yeah. Do you ever get to turn that off? I like to turn it off more. Yeah. But not because of him now, but just in life. No, no, no. I'm saying like be with people instead of leading all the way. Yeah. I wish I could. Listen, if I'm in the place that I can, like, what was that? What was the trend that was going? That was like, I don't know, maybe Kelly knows when it was like women were like, I want to be on my softer side or it's like they want to be in the season of like softness. I can't remember what it was called. If I can be in my season of soft, I'm going to call it season of softness. If I can be in that, yes. Hello, like I'm a woman. I would love to just be somebody put a warm blanket on me. You know what I'm saying? Like rub my back, you know? If I cannot be in that role, I love it. But if I have to trust and believe, like. I will. We're getting into it. So together. Yeah. Yeah, there's a math problem. We got to go work 500 jobs. We're y'all y'all are like world-class musicians. Y'all hit the road and you all perform for everybody. Y'all go do this. So there's a math problem there. And y'all go out solving that math problem. And it's literally, you and I talk about this all the time. You can spend last year, you can make more. I wish it was more complex than that, but that's really it. We're not going to sleep. We're not going to have furniture. We're not going to do all these things. And again, it is quote unquote, not fair that we're newlyweds. We're this talented. Y'all are two of the most talented people I know. Thank you. You're both good humans. Thank you. It shouldn't be like that, right? And because we have this reality, this math problem, we have to live in a condo that we're bumming off his mom. And we got to have roommates. Should it be that way? No. Is it? Yes. Right? Yep. You all had about this math problem. There has to be time in year six. Yep. Y'all did this for eight years, almost a decade. Because that's how big the hole Y'all had done was. There has to be a moment in year six and you're like, no. I can't stay on a workout plan for 45 days, right? Well, I mean, don't get me wrong. Like there's parts where you're... You had to lean over some time and just be like, I hate you. There had to have been those moments. Yes, but at the same time, it's like in this... I'm saying this, but I think you'll know what I mean. Like human beings are extremely adaptive. Like we're so adaptive. So whatever you set as the new norm becomes the new norm. Whether you... And that can be just as dysfunctional as you want it to be. Like you know what I'm saying? Totally. So there is part of that that was like, hey, we live with roommates. This is just our new norm. That's our life. Honey, I'm home. You know, you just walk in and it's like... That's our life. It's our life. And then maybe you get just like anything else. You get sick of that for a while. So you let the roommates go and now you're paying your own rent. And what do you do? Oh, let's sell one of the cars. We're a one car family. First few weeks, it sucks. And then you get used to it. And it's just, this is my life. You got to complete me up. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So there's part of it where I will be honest. I think just like human nature kicks in and you're like, this is just... It is. It's just my life. You know, it's kind of like if I'm trying to think of an example, but yeah, you just get used to stuff. So I don't want to... There's some research about like baseline, which is like winning a whole bunch of money. It's awesome for a bit. It's extraordinary for a bit. And then you kind of settle back into or like getting in a tragic accident and like losing a foot. Like it's a catastrophic dip and then... A normalcy sets in. This is my life. Yeah. Right? This is my life. Yeah. Like I'll be honest. When I think about that time, like I said, there was a time period where the lights were off and then there was a time period where it was like, hey, let's be honest. On the other side of this, we traveled the world. Like we went to over a hundred countries. Like we got to live our dream life in entertainment. Like there were... Oh, I thank God that he allowed that balance because a lot of times I think that's the only thing that kept things right side up is that there was this really sucky side over here, but then there was this really great side of how many people have a career that they loved. Yeah. I loved my work. Yeah. Loved it. You know, like I was doing... I was living a dream on that side of my life. A lot of people can't say that. So there was a lot of blessings. Like I'm not going to sit up here and act like it was just like, ugh. It was the worst thing ever. No, like the stuff that sucked sucked and the stuff that was awesome was awesome and they're both true. Like they're both true. That's one of the most important things my therapist ever told me was I was ran and raven about a family member and she stopped me and she said, before we go further, you have to say five things that that person gave you. And her line was you have to blame fair. That's good. You got to blame fair. You got to blame the good stuff in your life for what you got was good and it has to go like it was both. It was. Right. Yeah. Like I could go on like my church that I was at best ever, miss them to this day. I had the best people in my life. I still do. Like so. Yeah. Like that that part was amazing. Had some of the best friends I've ever had. Yeah. So I've got a 15 year old and a nine year old. You know, I'm like, you know, if I could leave them with anything, it would be no matter what happens, you can. And you might have to get other people. You might have to like have seasons where you got roommates and you're new. Like you have to do hard stuff. Yeah. But I want their internal compass to be a can. You've got somehow it's instilled in you, whether it's genetic or whether it was as a coach, whatever it was, how you've turned it into a child's performance. Like what I would call childhood performance, kids do what keeps them safe. Right. One kid became a clown, one kid next straight A is one kid. Like you do what keeps you safe. Yeah. But you turn that into this is how I operate. This is how I help millions of people. How do I what lessons would you tell me? I'm sorry, I'm passed along to my kids. What lesson would I tell you to pass along to your kids? No, no, no, like give me some some some meat on the bone that I can. When my kids experience acts, I can say like I can teach them. No, no, no, you can. What does that look like? I'm trying to replicate my kids in you. It's what I'm trying to do. It's a level of endurance, I just think. Like when you do something, I mean, I go back to sports on this sometimes in my mind, if I'm doing something tough physically, I tell myself like I can do anything for a minute. I can do anything. I can let it burn for a minute. I can let it hurt for a minute. I can be uncomfortable for a minute. Like and I think it's the same thing in life, like knowing that it really is. I mean, it's like stuff that grandma would say, but like this to shall pass type thing and you've just got to keep keep going. Like there's just. I'm not trying to be trite, but there's just no excuse. Like there's no substitute for endurance. There's just not. Like that is part of life. But you're like the curve buster when people call into our show and they're like, I can't and you're like, yeah, hold my beer. Yes, you can't. Right. I have because you can because you can and no one is going to say that you're going to feel great, like, right? Like that it's going to hurt or it could be painful or it could be uncomfortable. Or that it's not not fair that you're not actually a victim to think you are. And what am I going to know? Well, yeah, I think the fair thing and. This is one thing that I had to kind of adapt is. If you're thinking about fairness, you're thinking about a competition. Competitions are meant to they're set up to be fair. Everybody starts at the same starting line. Nobody gets performance enhancing supplements. Everybody has the same finish line. Everybody gets the same amount of time to train, whether you use it or not. Like that's fair. That ain't life. It's not the world. Yeah. It's not life. It's not. And the moment you start like letting yourself even go, into that, like that's like. It's I never thought about that, but that's an opting out of reality. It's opting out of reality. I'm like, what is my race? What's mine? Yeah, because. The truth is, like, you might start and the gun goes and you have to immediately go straight uphill on a dirt road, you know, in the snow, like, right? Other people, they get to run straight out on along the beach. We're running downhill. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Run downhill, right? You know what I'm saying? Like everybody's race is different. But if you're starting and you're looking over here and you're going over there, yeah, you're going to go, well, that's not fair. But if you're just like, what is my course? Okay. What's the best way for me to finish my course? Cool. Would you recommend to your friends? Nope. That's not personal enough. You're, you have an amazing son, amazing daughter. They're real young. They come home from college at 21 and they're like, mom, I've got somebody. Are you going to encourage them to go get married? I mean, it depends. Tell me more. I need no more. I'm just fascinated by the question of why people are still getting married. Oh, OK. OK, we're shifting. I am a. You've seen the high and the low. I'm a proponent of marriage 100 percent. Yeah. Like I, I believe in marriage. Because someone can hear your story and be like, I don't want to be attached to that for a decade. Yeah, you do. Yeah, you do. That's the question. Yeah, you do. Yeah, you do. Because here's the thing. It's a. Gosh, I'm trying to say this without sounding like super, like. No, be super, like. You are super, like so. How else are you supposed to become who you're supposed to become is my point. Like, how else? You think you're just going to go out here and just be by yourself and everything is going to be simple and everything is going to be comfortable and everything is going to be the way you like it. Like Netflix lied to you. Like they, they made, they curated a perfect thing for you and you got used to that. That is not life. Like that's just, that's not how it works. You need to get in there. Like. Nothing is more fulfilling long term than going in and getting your hands dirty with people. Life is messy. I'm going to tell you something. I just started being my mom's caretaker. There is nothing more messy than that. But it is the biggest blessing of your life. If you can get into people's life and you can get into the, the, the darkness and the hard stuff in the crying and the, the, the, the, the burdensome part. That's the part that is like, this is life. Like I had a pastor buddy once, several of my friends are pastors and this is, it's going to sound like, oh yeah, well, duh. But when you really stop and think about it, it's true. You're a pastor. You, you're there for all the biggest moments of people's lives. You're there when a baby is born. You're there when people get married. You're there when people get divorced and you're there when people die. If you want to not get into those dirty things, you're missing out on life. Those are the biggest moments of life. And I'm like, oh, sorry, I can't cuss on your show. I'm like, yes. You can cuss away. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cuss away, dude. Yes. I'm so glad I was there when Sam was experiencing his loss with his dad. I'm so glad I was there when he was thinking about his own life. I'm so glad I was there. You know what I mean? Like why would I change that? That's the, that's the, that is the beef of life. Like that's the meaty part. Yeah. And to, to, to hold someone when they're crying, to hold someone when they're sick. Why would you take that away? Like why would you want to go through a life without that? It's hard in the moment, but it makes you, it makes you a person that can, I can feel this. Not just on my face. On the other side, celebrating by yourself. Yeah. When you first came here, I remember like we were walked off stage one night and the event we did went awesome. And you mentioned something like Sam's not here. Like he's always on stage. He's been on stage with me for the last decade and he's not, he's not on stage with me. But there was like this, a, a, you know, like you cross the finish line alone and you're like, yeah. Right. So it's like doing the hard stuff, but also the good stuff is so much richer to celebrate with. You need, you want people. Like people are not perfect and they're not easy and neither are you. Like that's just, that is life. Like I don't know why you wouldn't want to do life alone or why you wouldn't want to do life quote unquote, the easy way, whatever that means to you. I think it's the, I think it's the bill of goods we've been sold. That is the point of life is to not be uncomfortable. That's a lie. We can solve for everything and finding no life. The, the good stuff is on through it, but on the other side of this. Well, I mean, I've said this before, I would argue that the person that doesn't want to go through anything tough is the person who's immature. Like, like struggles, tests, trials that like, that builds maturity. I don't want that. I don't want my dad to die. I don't want to like be abused as a kid. I don't want these days. I mean, I mean, that's, that's a deeper extreme, but it does, it does, it does build something in you. Nothing is a nightmare, but we're going to go through it. And nothing's wasted. Like let's not forget that part. Yeah. Like nothing is. That's a refrain I use often, like whenever something awful happens, like this, I won't waste this. Yes. Nothing's wasted. And it gets to a point to see that, like that, that's probably one of the hardest things to believe before you've gotten to it. Right? Like you have to, like there's a, a faith that takes place of that. Like before you get to the point that you can, I don't know, say it like as, as confidently as you or I is saying it right now. Right. Um, that's hard. But when you get to it is like, oh, okay. That was really sucky. Maybe I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. However, here's what I'm going to do next came out of it. And here's what I'm going to do next. And here's what I'm going to be next. That's awesome. Thank you for coming to hang out. Thank you for being my friend. You're welcome. Thank you for having me. It was awesome. It was. Stay in trouble. See you. I'll do my best. We're going to hit the road in the spring again. I can't wait to. Thank you. Montana Knife Company makes the best knives on the planet. Period. I'm full into hunting season and my family has been celebrating cooking season with tons of people in our house and everyone in my home is using Montana Knife Company knives between the woods and the kitchen. I need knives that actually hold up. That's why I bought my wife the chef's knife set for Christmas. A few years ago, she uses it every day. And I have a number of their knives for my outdoor fishing and hunting adventures. Their knives are designed, tested and built by real hunters and real cooks. When you pick one up, you can feel the quality. They're proudly made in the USA and they're razor sharp right out of the box and tough enough to last a lifetime. Montana Knife Company guarantees that my grandkids are going to fight over these knives someday. And if it ever needs sharpening, just send it back and they'll do it for free. Give the outdoorsman and the cook in your life a knife that they'll love and actually use. Go to Montana Knife Company dot com to see what's available right now. You won't be disappointed. That's Montana Knife Company dot com. All right. That was my conversation with my friend Jade Warshall talking about what no one tells you about money, her brand new book. Jade's a real deal. She's a real deal. Her husband, Sam's a good friend of mine. Like they're the real deals. And this book is on pre-sell right now. If you've never written a book, you don't know how important buying the book in pre-sale actually is. And if you're interested in it, go get it now for pre-sale and they'll ship it to you the day it releases, but it releases January 6th. Go check it out. Follow Jade on all the social media platforms and she is preparing an amazing new show that will be coming out next year. And I want you all to check that out, but we'll talk about that more later when it comes. Listen, whatever you're going through, you're not alone. I promise you, even when it feels like you are, you're not. A lot of other people are going through it too. And there's a light at the end of that tunnel, no matter how dim it looks. And I want you to grab this book. I love you guys. Thank you. Make good choices, be kind to each other and be kind to yourself. All right, let's talk about your marriage. Right now we have February and October weekends on sale for the money in marriage getaways, the best marriage retreat on the planet. Tickets start at $749 a couple. Get yours at ramsysolutions.com. slash getaway.