Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 84: Harvard 2

This is exactly right. We'll podcast. Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen in Georgia. You know every Wednesday we recap our old shows with all new commentary updates and insights. We do and we will. Today we're recapping episode 84, which we named Harvard too. And no idea what it means. I love it already. I got an idea. Okay, this episode came out August 31st, 2017. So let's listen to the intro of episode 84. Welcome to my favorite murder. Oh, there's some reason professional to me is like, a low voice. Is ASMR videos? Welcome to my favorite murder. That's Karen. That's Karen. That's two thirds name. And they're really professional. This is the third time we've started tonight. Let's see if we can nail this. We got real bad. We thought you guys missed a lot about driving. You missed I spoiled a movie. Go watch the movie Christine. It's on Netflix. And I won't that's all I'm going to tell you. That's all you're going to tell them. Watch it. If you dare, just watch it cold and don't know what it's about. It was everything that I wanted because it took place in the 80s. It was all vintage clothing. The amazingness. Like a hall is incredible. Michael C. Hall is placed such a douche. I love it. All the halls are in it. All the halls. And it's about the invention of Hall's cockroaches. Yep. The halls are the halls of what are they? What was our catch phrase? Deck the halls. No. No, this is just more dissociation. Should we start again? No, we're on April. We're leaving tomorrow for Denver. Oh, yes. This will come out next week. So hey, now I can't believe how high you got everybody. Yeah. So actually we're leaving in two days for Australia. Oh, shit, dude. Are you excited? I made us reservations at a restaurant. That's right. Did I tell you that? Yeah, you did. I am excited. I have to say I'm very angry at the ghost of my mother because as the health, the already, as the one thing she did harp on in her life was it was always a nursing related thing or health related thing. Anytime I flew to New York or back east, she would say, get up and walk around. You don't want to dive a blood clot. She would say that before I go into place, which is like, great. Thanks. Thanks. Thank you. You're building that into my psyche now. You know, it'll never leave. I don't, you are not supposed to cross your legs take off and landing. Really? For that reason. Is that true? Yeah. Well, I don't know if it's fucking true, but that's my bearer. That I've read. Don't cross your legs. That's so specific though, because you're cutting off blood circulation. Right, but why take off and landing? Because of the pressure. Okay, okay. You're asking. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Well, I mean, yeah, all of it is. That makes sense. Ish. It's just a concern that I have. Okay, so your mom told you that all my pants are too tight and I'm scared I'm going to dive a blood clot. Okay. Wait, oh, you mean life. Those are kind of two separate and then at the same time, the same issue. Well, here's good news. Okay. Since we're flying business class, there's a bar in business class. So you can walk over and meet me and Vince at the bar. And then we're going to see if we can get a new class getting absolutely shithammered. Wait, is this like international waters where I can drink on the plane to Australia? Because it doesn't count as being an America or my actual life. Yes, and then you'll have a blood clot and a seizure on the plane. For real, and I'll punch everybody. I will punch the pilot and the arrested. Vince keeps making up scenarios like he likes to do. And then George is running around the business class and her G-string. I don't even wear G-string. Oh, you guys are debuting your first G-string. I'm running around. Miss, can you miss? We need you to... Because you're going to be so drunk. Because I'll be so drunk and so excited. That we're business class. Very exciting. So I like the idea that I can lay down. That really brings me a lot of relief. But it is scary to me. I don't know. There's something nerve-racking about a plane flight that long. Huh? Okay, well, hold your hand. Okay, okay. It'd be in a pod. That's right, it would be in a pod. Steven, you'll be there. Are you on the same flight as us? No, I'm not on the same flight. I was going to send you back drinks constantly. No! Yeah. Well, I'll send them anyways. Vince Stevens and his G-string. Yeah. Out of control. He was my G-string. I'm ready. I got to tear away pants and everything. Yes! Australia's dial. I mean, I've done that flight before. I've done the flight to New Zealand. So that one's a little bit longer than Australia. But like, I feel like I just slept the whole time. I just was like, I can't handle this long of a flight where it's like we're landing like a two days later. Yeah. But I- It's going to be intense. It's very exciting. Yeah. It's definitely going to be exciting. Oh, I'm going to get it. One of those Evian spray bottles and just spray water on my face the whole time. It's just, ma'am. Can we, ma'am, everyone's complaining. Ma'am, you nobody wants you to do that anymore. The person behind me was sucking wet. Because you keep doing it over your head. Like, this is what rich people do. That's not doing anything. All right. Okay. Let's talk about podcasting. Oh, I want to say for the live shows since we're on the subject that I think that we haven't told people that- So we do like sometimes two or three shows in the same city. We do a different murder every night. Oh, yes. So I feel like some people are like, because we did that once. The first time we did two shows in one night. I believe it was Seattle, right? Yeah. And like, you could hear the people in the second show who had been at the first one, like, audibly grown. Yeah. And then we were both like, oh. It felt bad. Yeah. The air went out of the room. We were just staring at each other like, why are we doing this? Because we're wrong with that. Like, I saw- And I could see in the front row like the same two faces I had seen in the show before. Yeah. And I just wanted to apologize. So I think we did apologize to a lot of people. We know we did. We stopped doing it. Therefore, that is the living apology that we did. So we don't do the same murder ever, ever, and- And it's a lot of work. I'm really mad about it. Like you said, you feel like you have 15 book reports. Yes. And we have all new, really cool merch that you can't get online for sale at the shows. Live show. Like, we actually put a lot of work into it. And it's like fucking cool shit. If you were single and you had a bumble profile, I think that merch would be one of the things you would list under your interests. I'm really in your fucking about merch and have been since day one. Yeah. It's just so fun. There's so much cool shit. We have a shirt now and I can- It says, I'm a- And then there's one that says Karen, one that says Georgia, but it's in our signatures. Yes. Which is Vince's idea. And it's so fucking cool. Shit, it was Karen's idea. You just melted at me. God damn it, I'm sorry. It's okay. You just gave me so much credit for like doing merch and then I was like, you don't do anything. I do sometimes from the privacy of my home. Well, I don't think it's that creative and idea anymore. What happened? You loved it when Vince did it. Vince asked me to say that. I would like to say, you know, props to Vince. There were lots of people who contacted us from Los Angeles or grew up here or whatever. They needed to say there is a Carvelle ice cream shop in Los Angeles out on the west side. Oh yeah. We didn't know that. I've never heard of it at all in California. Oh, I mean, either Fudgey the Whale I've been hearing about forever. Who else contacted us to let us know about Carvelle? Carvelle. Carvelle themselves. Yeah. What did they say? Did you see the tweet? What did they say, Steven? Oh, because we're talking about getting a Carvelle Fudgey the Whale for a hundredth show. Yes. They said- They were like the Countdowns on party time. It's on us or something. Oh, really? We're fucking famous now. What? That and me. I was like, that's it. Why is it cake? The ice cream cake or whatever that we could afford. Yeah. Our selves send Steven to get- Yeah. To me, I'm tweeting on it as I lost my mind. You've changed. You've changed. No, I haven't seen it. Steven to get. I think that's the part of the question. I'm excited about a cake which is nothing now. What's sending this to you? It's a real celebration. Well, what's funny to me is people talked about it and they were like, I grew up eating it and did it. Well, I looked it up and as far as I could tell, that shop opened in 2008. No. That's what it said on the website. Santa Monica? Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's the only one in LA. I think there's one outside of LA too. I think there was one in like- I don't- I don't- I don't- I don't- I don't- like Monrovia. Oh. Is that a place? Over in Monrovia. Over in Monrovia. Like it's one of those places where I'm from Southern California and I don't know where they're- like there are these cities that you're like, why would I know where Pacoima is? It's like- Yeah. I really- there's a mystery spot that's kind of like along the- It's called the Inland Empire. Yeah. The- the Mountain Range. And it's just like, why don't- how do you not know where these places are? Like in Claremont? Yeah. What's happening over in Claremont? I don't know. Nobody goes there unless- I think they stay there. They're like, fuck LA. Yeah. We stay here. Which fair. It's like- I've been in a couple of the places and like, oh, it's fucking adorable. Well, Claremont's fancy too. Is it? It has like that college. They have colleges over there. Oh, you mean Harvard? That's where Harvard is. What if I had Harvard too? That's where- That's where Harvard too. It's similar to Harvard. It's tons of Ivy. It's just mostly- it's a school to teach you- It's a plan out of grow Ivy. They just have a plan. That's- The teacher had a grow Ivy. Do you know that my mom is a horticulturist? And I really want her- Wait, hold on. Yeah. Janet's a horticulturist? Yeah. Is that true? She's going to school for it. She's always been so fucking hardcore into plants. Wow. And finally, at 71, she's like, well, I'm going to go to school to be a horticulturist. That's amazing. Yeah. So she works at like a nursery and I'm dying for her to open her own- Her own plant shop and I just want her to call it little shop of horticulture. So the best thing you've ever. Yeah, no. It's not- No, that one I'm going to go with. Okay. That one I like. That's good. Yeah, that was good. Thank you. That was the sidebarry sidebarry. What if she did that and then she gets sued? She gets sued because of me, but by brick marannas. By the evil dentist Steve Martin. That was so pointless. Please go on. Yeah, I mean seriously. It's like we're trying to get people to not listen to this podcast. Here's the- This series I have to talk about because I'm so into it. Okay. The center. Are you watching it with Jessica Beale? Oh, I'm dying too. Okay, you have to. I'm dying. I didn't know it was on yet. Jessica Beale. I mean, you're pretty darn pretty. I don't know, some Jon Snow look in Motherfucker place her husband. I've never seen him before, unless it is Jon Snow and he's doing it in American accent. I'm not sure what's happening. He's beautiful. And it is a, like, she doesn't know you have to see it. I will say it. I've seen the commercials and I've gotten, like, chills. It's on demands. Anyway, if you like, I don't know, if you like a good series, which this is, and it is, it has the crime feel to it, but it also has a very well written and paste drama feel to it. Jessica Beal, who I've never known at, like, I'm too old to be in that seventh heaven generation on me too. She is so good. No, I just hated it. It's, I mean, like, it's a little, you're not that, you're not that into Christianity. It's probably what it is. Actually, did you know I am? What? You're the hero, Jesus. You're the hero, Jesus. Yeah, so anyway, if you were looking for something new to watch, highly recommend this dinner. It's not, so I was worried it was going to be like, corn. I'm like, you know, they keep trying to make these shows that are, like, true detective and they're not. Right. You really didn't like the Ozarks? Did you watch that? I didn't watch it because, yeah, everyone loved it and I'm sorry to, I don't care, but it was, I hated it. And so I was like, oh, I hope this isn't another one of those. Right now, Jason Beatteman has a single tale role. He's done his chief, is he? And he sings. Okay. And that's what he says in the beginning of every, sorry, shit. I really want, like, a walk on a roll and the new rest of the developments. I should have touched it on him. Is that really what you want? No. I'm just kidding. Oh. Are you vision boarding right now? No, I just spit following my vision board. A walk on roll where you just kind of walk on. No, I totally get it because I think, well, it's, because when it's done right, it's the best. Yeah. And when it's done right, you can, like, lock and do a series like that. Or a night of, the night of. Hello. Yeah. I mean, I want to watch it 50 times. So this, I want to say, I want to say, if Jessica Beale and what's his name making out? Justin Timberlake? No. That's her husband night of. A Rizah Med. Yeah. Oh, and you're just having personal fantasy. Yes. I mean, that's for your other body. I'm a cause playing. Okay. Also, sorry. I'm just going on. You don't like Rizah Med because if you like Rizah Med, you wouldn't immediately picture a making out with Jessica Beale and picture making out myself. Well, yeah. If you, so you, you're not. He's a good looking human. Okay. I thought you were like, oh, I want his DNA inside me. No, I meant that. And I want to have his baby because he's so handsome. He's so beautiful. Because he's so beautiful. I'm like, that's the baby would be gorgeous. He's using him. He's using his DNA. Oh my god. I'm totally telling him why he's there. I'm so mad at you. Those are my only topics. Carvella in the center. Okay. And I think we should probably watch them episodes while we eat Carvella ice cream. Okay. Let's watch them right now. While we talk, I get a say that I have another thing, but I'm sure it's not important in a weird take a moment. So stop and listen. You know how people love awkward, weird pauses and podcasts. They never exist with the, with Stevens wonderful work. Editing. Editing, am I right? Don't edit this out, Stephen. And we're back. Claremont College is Harvard too. Done and done. We did it again. I mean, there's parts of this, you know, as you and only you understand the parts, yes, the parts of this podcast and having this podcast that are absolutely like soul scrapingly painful for us. Yeah. But then there's those things where like you hear it back and you're like, God damn it, that's funny. Totally. Just conversationally great chatter. That's how I feel whenever I watch an MFM animated, I'm like, we can't stop doing this because this is fucking brilliant. Not me and not you, but like this in general. Yeah, it's exactly like having those eyes where, whether it's a Nick Terry or our listeners where they're like, it's good. We like it. Yeah, like, okay. I'm saying, okay. Have you ever had a blood clot? No, fuck, no. Thank God. And I still don't cross my legs on takeoff and landing. Yes. Right? I mean, or when you're getting your haircut, is it? Do you know that? Or ever because you're not a lady if you don't do it. I was crossing my legs. Where was it the other day? And I was like, am I supposed to be doing this right now? Oh, it was in church. And I was like, you were in, wait, back the fuck off. It was a funeral. Oh, sorry. That's okay. But you're like, what? That's right. I'm becoming super Catholic. I thought you were to say it was Christmas. I'm like, that still doesn't exc- No. No. Okay. It was a funeral and I was sitting there and I was like, realize that that's my most comfortable position is cross leg. Same. And I don't think you're supposed to cross your legs in church. What? That's not. They have so many rules. Are you serious? Yeah. Yes, that's what religion is. Well, hey, if there's any knowns or pre-sout there that want to talk about Catholic rules, because also this is like post-Vaticant too. So there's rules I don't even know about. They do call in response that I don't recognize because I- What's up? Like that? And then everyone else is like, what? We're right here. Jesus. We're touching hands, touching hands. I'm like, what? We never did it this way. We're playing back in tick. All right. What's it? Rochembo. Rochembo for God. Yeah. What? What? What? No, blood clot. Thank God. Yeah. Everything's fine. Oh, that's a very meaningful question is, did your mom becoming a horticulturist at 71 inspire you in any way? Oh, I think, yeah, it always has. I think it's pretty incredible that she did that. I mean, it's very cool. It keeps your brain, like she had to learn Latin. Yeah. You know, and that, and she's 79 now, holy shit, almost 80. Yeah. Oh my God, so close 80. And she looks good. She looks amazing and she's still pretty sharp. I think some of that pot smoke, he may have slowed things down just a little bit. But otherwise, probably because she wants it too. That's a little slow. This should down a little bit. But yeah, I think it's any time of real life you should be learning something new. Also, she's kind of a visionary because the way plants have blown up, and I know that's on stupid, but it really is true. Like the social media kind of trend of, I have 800 plants in my apartment. It feels like Janet was on the early edge of that trend. She could be a horticulture influencer now if she wanted to. And it's the thing of two of like something you've always been interested in your whole life. Like we can't go for a walk my entire life without her pointing at a plant and telling me what kind of fucking flower it is or whatever. Yes. So she's like, I love this. I'm going to learn more. It's great. You know, it's funny. Is my dad, my both of my parents were into plants like that too. And so I was walking somewhere one time and I was like, look at this boog and veal yet. And everyone thought I was joking and it really was. Yeah. And I was like, oh, that's so weird. I just had that waiting in there. I love that. I think I call most flowers. Oh, look at that hydrangea. Is that hydrangea? I think I think everything is a hydrangea. And not like nothing's a hydrangea. And most people are impressed. No, they don't fucking know. They don't fucking know. Super mom. You're stupid. And you're like, shut the fuck up. Oh, yeah. Okay. No, we love you, Janet, and great job. Yeah. Great job on that trend. Okay. Now we're back to this podcast. Yes. Here we are. It's true crime. We're getting into Georgia story and it is about Teresa Nore. Yeah. Oh. They told us it was a weather balloon. Just a glitch. It was a drone. Now it's just AI, I guess. The explanation keeps changing. But the stories don't go away. Video is a paradigm you have always flying through the air are real. My name is Payne Lindsay. And this is High Strange, an investigative podcast about real encounters. Images of that rotating thing captured by US Navy aircraft. Credible people. We have clear things that we do not understand how they were. I talk to scientists, military witnesses, pilots, and people who saw something they can't unsee. There was no other explanation for what we saw that day. I remembered those faces and they were human. This isn't a show about belief. It's about curiosity, skepticism, and investigation into the unknown. High Strange is available now wherever you listen to podcasts, listen for free on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. The last one we actually did was, if I get it before you, you're steaming your fired. Okay, what did you wish? No, you're going first. Okay, you're not fired. All right. 1989. A 20-year-old woman named Terry Nor comes to the Utah police and she has a story for them. She tells them about how eight years before around her mother and two brothers had killed both of her teenage sisters, Terry's teenage sisters, and left their bodies in the mountains near Tahoe. What? The Tha. Yeah, tells them this. She's kind of like a drugie and she's been arrested for shoplifting so she's kind of on the outskirts of stuff so they don't believe her. They're like, you're making shit up. Yeah, it's an insane story. So the cops don't believe her, a therapist and a lawyer that she consults don't believe her story. Yeah. So she's just like, well, fuck it. I don't know what to do then. But then in 1983, she watches an episode of America's Most Wanted. Calls the hotline that they give. And she's like, fuck it. Starts boiling. And I guess there's like a woman on the other end of the line who's like, oh my god. And they're like, talking. And I'm like, how cool would it have been to be an America's Most Wanted fucking call sent out for some sort of... Operator. Can you... Cool. And then also you would have talked to some of the craziest... You would have heard some of the craziest stories. That's not what I should say that way. Would you rather be... I know the answer to this. A 911 operator or a call sent... Or name anything else. Or anything else in the world. Name anything else. Okay. So she calls them and this checks like, well, it's crazy. They talk forever. She's like, well, why don't you go to the police station that this took the... Precinct that this took place in because she lived in Utah then and they didn't believe her. So she goes to the Plaster County Sheriff and tells authorities what happened and they start to realize that this... These details match with two cold cases that had happened eight years before. Oh shit. And she's giving them details that fit so well that they cannot believe her. I so badly right now want to see video of her to see what her behavior or... I can show it to you right now. Well, for real. Cold case file. Why don't they... What about her? Do you think makes her so unbelievable to the authorities? She definitely seems like the kind of person. She's talking about how she told everyone. She would tell anyone who listened this story and they must have thought that I could see people being like... This chick just fucking goes to a dive bar. She's a regular. She tells everyone the story. Nobody believes that it's a crazy story. So she just... She seemed like an alcoholic or like she's a drugie or something? Yeah, not anymore. Not when she's doing the actual episode. She seems like she's got her shit together. She's actually incredibly believable. Well, and also if you went through that... Yeah. You get to drink... All of it. You do anything... I mean, like... No. That's the irritating thing about those kinds of situations. You live through a trauma like that of like half your family killing the other half. And then you're supposed to just be like, oh no, I'm a really reliable witness because I'm totally in reality all the time. And it's like she's telling the story and she's not crying because she had to shut her emotions off from all of this so long ago that they're like... You're telling us this story and you're telling it matter-of-factly and we don't believe you. Like even a therapist who should be able to look past all this stuff. Yeah. Call the fucking Lake Tahoe Pee-Dee and be like, hey, anyways, well, we'll get to her story and we can talk about that. Okay. So that yeah, there's two never identified Jane Doe's that kind of match and they're like, oh shit, we should look into this. So here's the story. So Terry's mom, her name's Teresa Nore. She's born in Sacramento, California in 46. At age 16 she leaves home to marry a man five years older than her who she had met a few months prior. She drops out of high school and she gets pregnant. So on July 6, 1964, they're arguing and the husband tells Teresa that he's leaving her. She gets so pissed off, she shoots him in the back with a rifle as he's walking out the door, killing him. Holy shit. She's arrested and charged with his murder, but she says she's not guilty because it was self-defense. She says she doesn't tell them what happened really. Like shooting someone in the back, how is that self-defense? Yeah, it doesn't look good. But during her trial, she's pregnant with her second kid and she claims that she shot him because he was violent alcoholic, who physically abused her and she's acquitted of the murder. She gives birth to her second kid, Sheila 65. And after that, she's drinking super heavily. She begins another relationship with a man named Robert Nor. That's how she got her last name. She comes pregnant again. They have a third kid named Susan. They have three more children, William, Robert and Teresa that they named after her and that's Terry. That's the girl. Teresa Jr. Yeah, as you do. It's kind of cool. Yeah. You know what I really love the name Virginia, but if I ever have a kid, I can't name her Virginia because my name's Georgia and I would seem like I'm naming her after myself. And this is my son, New Jersey. Right. It's like you can't do that. You're just a vain. Um, what if you had a daughter named her Karen? I would totally do that. I would do that in a heartbeat. Well, there you go. Hey, Jay, come on. Eventually, she, they divorced. She made another man. They get married two months later. They divorced. And then this is when she starts to go fucking crazy and says all the kids. After her fourth divorce, fourth divorce, six kids, she goes nuts. She starts drinking more and more. She puts on a ton of weight and a super pissed off about it. She starts abusing her kids hardcore. Terry said, when were kids, my mom beat the shit out of us. She's like kind of awesome. Yeah. Like you want to hang out with her when you see her in this cool case. Well, she's just like, well, they beat it. She beat the real living fuck out of it. Like she's just so matter of fact about it, but like you can tell she's just like that a friend that's intense and wants to have late night conversations with you about everything. Um, if we hugged my, our mom too much, it was like who were we trying to convince that we loved her. She loved us on the other hand. If we didn't hug her and kiss her and tell her we loved her, then we didn't love her. And we were children. We were demon seeds that had been given to her by Bob nor so she goes crazy and starts to think that her kids are like satanic. Oh, and she becomes reclusive and disconnected. The home phone and wouldn't let the kids go out or have visitors. They moved into a two bedroom apartment in Sacramento. Can you imagine six children in the Lama and two bedroom? I lived in two bedroom apartments with two other roommates and we all wanted to kill each out of it a whole time. Yeah. Also, it's very hot there. In Sacramento? Always. Yeah. Probably didn't have they see. Probably didn't. That will make you go crazy. Swamp coolers. That's what you told me. Yeah. We sit around and chairs right next to the Swamp cooler with our armpits up. I've never even heard of this. I was like, let the sun go out. Um, okay. The neighbor and the neighbor said they probably was filthy and smell like urine. Oh. So on top of all of that. So for years, Teresa abused and tortured her children and it sounds horrific, including burning them with cigarettes, throwing knives at them, beating and once grabbed Terry by the arm and held a 22 caliber pistol to her head until she was going to kill her. So chances are that Terry, when she went to finally report this horrible thing, was totally shut down. That's why it was like she wasn't crying. She was madder, a faculty telling the story and it's like, well, yeah, it's seven years old or whatever. She was like, emotions are not going to help you. No, I bet they're, they count against you very badly. Yeah. With a mother like that. Definitely. Yeah, she had no emotional attachment to this story at that point, which is insane. This story reminds me of Sylvia Likens, that horrible story I covered a while ago. Yeah. And that the mom made would make the other kids beat up one of them. No. So she would make them be involved in it so that they were part of it, you know, and that's partly part of why Terry was so fucking shut down is like she kind of had a hand in it and her in her mind thinking she was responsible to even though you're obviously not. Yeah. So there's like talk of incest. It's brought up one or two articles, but the word incest comes up that they don't go into details at all. So I don't really know how truthful that is or to what extent that is. Let's see. Okay. So she primarily started to focus her anger and abuse on the two oldest daughters, Susan and Sheila. And according to Terry, Theresa resented that Susan and Sheila were maturing and becoming attractive young women while she was becoming older and can lose any weight. The Terry kind of explains it like that, but it's clearly so much more deep seated than that. Yes. She's monster and insane person. And in bed, I got like a degenerating alcohol. Right. And yeah, there's a lot probably parts of her brain are going soft because of the drink. Yeah. I've been going on for long enough. Yeah. I learned that on sober house. I can happen to you. Oh, really? Oh, my God. But excuse me while I take a sip of my tea that's got whiskey in it. But that makes perfect sense. And also I bet you the sons. It's like every movie you've ever seen about an abuse apparent where eventually the 16 year old boy turns around and goes, I'll beat the shit out of you if you touch me again. Right. But the girls can't probably can't do that. Exactly. But yeah. And the boys, you know, start beating them up and probably avoid their mother beating the shit out of them because they're part of it. You know, it's really horrific. Yeah. Especially. Yeah. So she would, so because of this, she would start administering forced feeding to the girls. Which can you imagine that kind of fucking torture? Sorry, because they were young and pretty and thin. So she would give them forced feeding. She would make boxes and boxes of like mac and cheese, you know, like the mac and cheese and put spoonfuls of lard in it. And sit there and make them eat all of it. And sucks to a point where one of the girls had her front teeth were broken because of forcing for the holy shit. Yeah. That's a hard thing to do for to eat like that or to break your teeth, really? Yeah. I've never done it. Yeah. It's it's not it's pretty solid. Oh my God. Hold on. Jesus Christ. All right. So and if you threw up. Yeah, I'd eat it. Like forcing, you know, when you eat so much, you get full and it's so fucking painful and horrible. Can you, I think that to me is it's such a telling torture. Mm-hmm. But also it's so self-serving. Yeah. It's, it's, yeah. It's really, really sad. So she, so Teresa started to believe that her fourth husband had turned Susan, one of the older daughters into a witch because so she really received them worst of Teresa's abuse. After one severe beating, Susan ran away from home and she was picked up by a police and placed in a psychiatric hospital and she told the staff of the abuse of the hands of her mother. And Teresa denies the abuse and told the hospital staff that Susan had mental issues. So they didn't investigate and they released Susan back to her mother as they do in the 80s. Fuck. Yep. How old was Susan? Sorry. I think she was a teenager. Mm-hmm. A lot of the details of like age and not then year and that sort of thing is hazy probably because Terry's the one giving them the info and there's not a lot of, oh right, you know, there's not a lot of info to back it up. So it's hard to tell. So of course Susan's super punished for this. She gets beatings with, while they wear a pair of leather gloves, which I don't understand. Like this part is in a couple of the articles. Is it, it makes it more painful? I would imagine. I don't know. I thought maybe you would know like, oh yeah, leather, whatever. Not slapping gloves, slapping with gloves like a British gentleman would know. They like put leather gloves on and beat her up. I wonder if it like delivers a punch heart? I don't know. Someone will tell us. She also forced her, okay, so they all had to beat her up. She got handcuffed to the bed and the other children had a stand guard and watch her. Make sure she can get out of there. The handcuffs aren't enough. I know. She makes her drop out of school, everyone drops out of school and they're all in high school. Oh, none of them got past eighth grade. Oh no. So this all happened before eighth grade. Oh fuck. Yeah. That's really young, okay. Very. And they were homeschooled, of course, based on the Bible. And they had, and then Teresa had a thing called the Board of Education. And it was a paddling board that said the Board of Education on it. And they did something wrong. I've heard of that. Have you? Yeah, people's parents having that. Really? Yep. It's a funny abuse of pun. Oh, I know. It's cute. It's like makes with, man, I got hit with a wooden spoon as a kid. A lot. And it is so fucking painful. Is it really? I know it's like, it's kind of, it's like a cute thing. Right. You got to spank your children and everyone acts like it's, this is how you teach them how to be a good person. Nope. So I got spanked a lot as a kid with both a wooden spoon and a hand. It's fucking hurts and it's terrifying. And the parent is really pissed off while they're doing it. So it's not like a teaching lesson. It's you, I am so fucking angry at you. It's an adult out of control with a child. Yeah. Well, and also it was very fucking common back then. Yeah. It was not only common for people to get abuse. Well, it was legitimately like that. They still, a lot of people don't think that's abuse. Right. But also other people's parents would slap kids or, you know, spank them. Yeah. It was always this idea of spanking like on the butt was less bad. It's, they call it a smack. I don't know. Why am I oversharing this stuff? Well, it's very relevant. Yeah. And I'm sure it brought up a, this story brought up a lot of shit for you. Yeah. That's fucked up. Yeah. Um, I hope my mom doesn't assume me. The defamation. Shit. No one's going to go to fucking little house of horror cultures. Or, yeah. Damn it. Should I? Okay. It's going to go in my memory anyways. Mine was well saved on the focus. No, I'm kidding. Uh, duh, duh, duh, duh. Okay. So let's get to the fucking shit. They're having an argument in 1983. Teresa shoots Susan in the chest during this argument. Fuck. The bullet gets lodged in her back. Teresa makes the, the suns put her in the bathtub. And Susan gets nurse back to health by her mother. What? Yep. She doesn't die. But it all takes place at home. Yeah. And then she says, that's the only time that she didn't see her mother hitting Susan. So it was almost like nursing her back to health made her feel motherly and needed. And so she wasn't abusive. Fuck. It's not insane. That's, uh, where were the fucking neighbors or I mean gunshots or taking place? Yeah. Well, the house, they shot a photo of the house that they moved into. They like to bedroom. It definitely looks secluded. Oh, like in a Sacramento kind of way. I was picturing it as like apartments. No. Yeah. They call it an apartment, but it's not. Okay. It's like a two bedroom small place. Okay. And it looks like it's, you know, out and wherever. Yeah. Um, yeah. You know, so did it. Okay. So she's in her back to health. She survives. In the 1984, four, she works up the courage and tells her mom she wants to move out. And Teresa says, okay, you can move out, but you have to let me remove the bullet from your back because if you tell on me that can be used as evidence. Oh, my God. This is horrific, right? It's unbelievable. I know. I was like, maybe this week I'll do like an old timey murder or that's like a little more of. Nope. You know, I was like, Oh, I found this. Yeah. And I have to do it. It's incredible. It's insane. Um, so Teresa, Susan agrees. They put her down on the kitchen floor and Teresa says I was basically the nurse. I had to administer all these things, but either the brother or Teresa took the bullet out of Carolie's health, but they fed her, um, a ton of liquor and malaria, malarital capsules. You know what those are? Imagine their sleeping pill. Tell she's out cold and then take the bullet out. Okay. And flush it down the toilet. All right. Um, infection sets in Susan's skin turns yellow from jaundice. They handcuff her to the kitchen table and she lays dying on the floor. The skits really horrific. She Teresa tells her kids that Susan was possessed by Satan and the only way to purge the demon was with fire. Oh, no. She makes Robert and Bill the brothers drive Susan to Sierra Nevada interstate 80. Do you know where that is? Uh, so it's like out in the wilderness, right? Yes. Well, the 80, if from Sacramento, you take the 80 events, then you're, I think it's far winded. Yeah. Okay. It's, I'm pretty sure it's on the way up to the mountains like, yeah, if I'm not, that sounds right. It's like toward Roseville. Okay. Um, all right. They had packed all of her possessions into trash bags. They pull over. They put the trash bags down. They put Susan on top of them. Then they poured gasoline and they lit around fire. Is she still alive? Yeah. I wasn't going to say anything. Well, you have to tell the whole story. I know. There's, you have still. I know. And I think she was like, to me, nothing is worse than what those are the, those for some reason are the worst to me. Is being lit on fire by your fucking family. Yeah. But dying of fire to me is specifically horrific. Yeah. I can't. That's like the one I can't really think of that. And I'm doing a story about it. Um, they've, and it's just a warning on cold case files that they show her. Oh. They show the fucking crime scene photos. So, um, they, she's found, they put the fire out. They have no idea who she is. They, um, they think that, okay, they have no idea who she is. They make a, um, they make a drawing of what they think that she looks like. Fucking case goes cold. They have no idea who she is. And, uh, back at home. So it's the like a year later, late spring of 85. Sure. She starts to make her 20, now 20 year old daughter Sheila work, uh, as a sex worker. She like, whims her out. And she's earning hundreds of dollars a day. And Teresa almost seems like she's proud of her. And she, he's definitely on the daily meetings. And she's, she's actually out to come and go as she pleases. Wow. Which is rare. Um, and then Teresa accuses Sheila of giving Teresa an STD through the toilet seat. Um, so she beats her, hog ties her and locks her in, uh, like tiny broom closet. It's hot as fuck. There's no ventilation. And she forbids her other children to give Sheila food or water or to open the closet door. And Terry, one day when she was gone disobeys her in-hands and gives her a beer, which is almost like you can imagine that's probably all that was the house. Yes. And she's just like kid, this teenage kid who's like, doesn't know what else to do. There's a beer. Um, so she, I guess Teresa just said she wanted Sheila to confess. Um, but either way, she's going to get beaten. And so she does confess that she doesn't believe her. And so, uh, she eventually dies in the closet. Oh my god. Yeah. So three days later, she dies of dehydration and starvation. They leave her body in the closet for an additional three days before even discovering that she's dead. So the mom and son puts the body, her body in a cardboard box tapes it shut and they take it to the mountains where they dumped it near Truckee, the Truckee airport. Um, and then they get back to the apartment and realize the smell hasn't gone away. And so Teresa orders Terry to set the apartment on fire. This woman is a fucking lunatic. Guess what? She's still alive. What? She's still alive. Teresa. Oh, the lunatic mom. Oh, to this day. Yeah. Oh, sorry. For a second, I was like, that was like, get the crazy twist. No, no, no. They're sadly now crazy twists. Okay. Um, but the dad, the dying of dad is dying at this point. I mean, this is, this is how you're not heard about this. I know. Like when you said the name, it sounds familiar. Well, it's like, how have you not heard about this? I know. It's not crazy. It sounds super familiar, but, um, yeah, but I didn't, I, I don't know these details at all. But this might be when your parents like, we're like, we're not watching the news for a while. Yeah, but 85. I would have like, if that, if I heard that on the news then, I would have been like, but here's the thing about 85 is that those are just when the bodies were found. Two separate bodies in two counties. Oh, and there were cool cases. And there were cool cases. And they weren't even linked. Okay. I think that the, the investigator on cool case files was like, yeah, we talked to them are like, this is weird, but they died in totally different ways. But there were two young teenagers, but they didn't put it together. Yeah. So you wouldn't have heard much. Okay. That's right. I'm going forward until 93. But you still, you were in Sacramento then. Stop it. I couldn't have known. Oh, I'm not blaming you. Check it. I'm just like, but how fucking weird it is that this and like one of the most insane cases I've ever heard of child abuse and we've never heard of it. Right. I, I moved, I was in San Francisco by 93, which just makes me want, that made me want to tell the story more because it's like, no, I can see it. How come the fuck? Because it's this weird. Oh my God, like that idea of the crazy alcoholic mom that like keeps everybody in the house, like no one's in school and it's just mayhem, an ugly, sad place, a constant torture. And someone that just shoots people. Like what? I mean, it's just so crazy that it's one person against five and she is so manipulative and insane and dangerous and scary that she's able to tell her sons to go kill their sister and they obey. It's their mother. Yeah. It's their primary. It's horrible. Yeah. And it's all they've ever known. Yeah. All right. So she tells her to light the apartment on fire in the middle of the night. She sprinkles lighter fluid around the apartment and lights it on fire, but it didn't spread because I think they're, because they're war neighbors. So apparently the war neighbors who knows. So the fire department responds. There's not a lot of damage. I feel his body is discovered a few hours after it had been exposed to them in the box by fucking poor fisherman. Jesus, can you imagine? And they show that too on cold case files. Like I was so surprised and I was sitting here with Vince and he looks upright when that happens and I was like, don't look, don't look like that. So I was like, you're gonna think, I said, don't look because you're gonna think I'm fucking insane that I'm watching this. He doesn't want to see like, went in the other room. He also knows you're insane. Yes, that just quick after. He does. He does. You're right. He likes wrestling. Just exactly. Everybody's got their thing. Yeah, right. Okay. They again classified as a Jando. After leaving the Sacramento apartment, they all go into hiding. They finally, that, the landing on fire is finally their ticket out of there and they all break up and spread around and she and Terry gets dissapear mom. Wow. 16. The mom relocates to Vegas with one of the sons, Robert Norr and in 91, he's arrested after fatally shooting a bartender in a Las Vegas during an attempted robbery. I mean, these are like, these are born and bred criminals that are like, now go out into the world. Yeah. Just reign free. Yeah. Good luck with having any kind of normal life. Yeah, you, any conflict you have, you're going to start shooting. Yeah. I mean, God bless her. She seems, she seems like she was able to straighten her fucking life out. It's unbelievable that she is able. I mean, watch it just to like hear her talk. I can't wait. So they move back. Then they moved to, so he goes to prison for 16 years. Mom relocates to Salt Lake City where she becomes a caretaker, an elderly woman's caretaker. This dude hires her to take care of his mother, ailey mother lives there and when, okay, let me keep telling this. Okay. This is going to, that's going to turn out bad, right? No. Oh, okay. No. It turns out, like, it turns out, and we had no idea. You know what I mean? So no, no one else gets killed. Okay. So Terry takes Sheila's identification card to pass herself off as an legal adult. Like, she becomes, you can do what you got to do. Yes. So once she finally goes to share her story and they finally believe her because of her detailed descriptions down to the chip teeth of the Jane Doe they had because the box that Sheila was put in, they knew was, there was the only piece of evidence they had. It was a box from a movie theater of like popcorn buckets. So they went to every movie theater and was like, is this your brand? Is this your box? And it wasn't. It turns out that Robert worked at a movie theater when they and had taken the box from a movie theater. So even that cooperated everything, just these details, everything matched. So the detectives also took out the subfloor that had been stained with Sheila's body to test it. And in November, 93, Theresa Norse arrested at her home in Salt Lake City where she fucking lives with this elderly mother. And the son who had hired her was like, we had no idea. She was a sweet old lady. Yeah, she did some weird shit. And she said she liked to take care of my mom because she had, or she liked, she was like really motherly to my grand kid to my children who were daughters because she said she had always wanted a daughter of her own and only had sons. Oh my God. So he didn't believe it for a long time. Okay. You know what I mean? Yeah. Cause like you left your like the guilt of relieving your mom with a fucking murderer. Yeah. It's gonna be pretty high. Yeah. You got it. Ooh, you're not a good judge of character. It turns out you don't know your shit. You thought you were a yay. Engage your gut. Yeah. Listen to your heart. Eyes open, please. Eyes open. Heart. Make a reference. See, these days we have linked in. That would never happen. Okay. She's the heart. She's charged with two counts of murder, two counts of conspiracy to commit murder. Two special circumstances charges multiple murder and multiple murder by torture. William is sentenced to probation to undergo therapy for participating in Sheila's murder and an ex-chantress testimony. The prosecution dropped all charges against a robber, save for one count of being an accessory after the fact in Sheila's murder. And also the mom was like, I'll plead guilty. Teresa was like, I'll plead guilty if you let my sons off. Were you like, I have a heart. Okay. Here's where I have a hard time with. Do the sons deserve anything? I mean, at what point in their age? I'm not, I feel like I am not qualified to debate that in any way now. I just want to bring it up because I can't give a judge me either way. Well, my, like my first reaction is they don't because they were raised to kill people. This woman, they had no choice. It was out of fear at that point and mine controlled it. They did it. Yes. And just the thought reactions of this is normal living. But when you say that, then you basically, there's so many murderers that you can say that about because they had equally nightmarish childhood. So they could actually, yeah, exactly. It's nothing is black and white. Right. Yeah, Ted Bundy was like abused and sexually molested, but he still held responsible for what he did. It's almost like, well, at the point where they're 18 and on, then are they responsible? No, no, I think for Ted Bundy, I think it's like once you killed your 12th woman, it's on you. No, I mean, I'm saying these boys, I don't think they would have lived these lives. Definitely not. They wouldn't have killed their own sisters if their mother didn't make them participate. Definitely. I would guess that. I mean, that's like, to me, it's like the beatings and that sort of thing. No, they're not held responsible for that. But the murder's the same. It's all the mother's doing. I know. And I know people are going to argue with me and be like, you're victim blaming for sure. Right. I understand and I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just like, how, what point do we, what point is it? Is there a period at the end of their life? Well, that's what judges and jury's and all those the people that look at all the information. That's the point. Definitely. Where they go, okay, is this a person that had, you know, was forced into this horrible life and entire lifestyle? Is this person that liked it? Is this a person that didn't just kill sisters, but then went on and attacked people in neighborhood or like and wanted and yeah. So Teresa, please guilty, please guilty because of that. And on the condition also that she's spared the death penalty, just like, fuck you. That it can be like period about, fuck you. On in October 95, she sentenced to two consecutive life sentences. She's incarcerated in California, Institute for Women in Chino. So she's fucking in, is that the end of the empire? She's in the fucking end. Yeah, I don't know. It might be. She'll be eligible. You should go there. You should go there now and go to Ivy League school. She'll be eligible for parole in 2027. If she lives to see it, she'll be 80 years old. Oh, shit. Still alive. I wonder if she's drinking inside in the clink. Some fucking, how some wines, some toilet wine. Would you take a sip of that if someone made you? Not made you, but if you were like, dared. No, I don't really respond to daring. That's not my job. Yeah, you don't seem like a person who would be challenged. No, no. I mean, are you saying, would I, would I even be curious about the experience of what toilet wine tastes like? I guess the word toilet is a hard mouth. It ruins it. I mean, would I, poison wine in a bucket, make it? Raisin wine in a bucket that's quite clean. Yeah. The first time ever the bucket was used was for the prison. Why? Which I'm sure they have access to clean buckets. And yes, we get, yeah, I'm sure they, there's a whole program set up. But I would want to taste what non-toilet, created prison wine tasted like. I agree. And that would be fascinating. I can't imagine there's a ton of prisoners who are like, yes, to toilet wine themselves. I'm an alcoholic, but I want if I can drink. No, I'm going to say no to toilet wine. Who knows? Who knows? I mean, but anyway, if you try to do what you got to do, I'm fucked to recent or. God, that was crazy. She's awful. Oh, I don't, yeah. So I, yeah, watch the cold case while I will. And did you know they're all, they're all streaming on, you can get them on demand somewhere, not on demand, but like on your DVR. No way. On like, if you have drug use or Apple or yeah, every single one is on except for that one. Are you serious? I'm going to go to YouTube to find it. It's on YouTube. It's so dark. It makes it extra dark when you're from the place where you hear the story because you can put it there. I can picture her house dress. I can, I have asked, like me in it, I was like, I'm going to ask Karen where they sit. So it's insane. Yeah. Can picture her house dress like a flowery nurses, like big dirty, dirty kind of like country powder blue. Yes. Like little tiny flowers on it. Slippers. Essentially what I fucking wear of today. Let's be honest. Man, it's got it at pick and save. It's dark. It's dark. There's bad vibes. Slippers. OK. We're back. Are there any updates on this case? I have some updates on this horrifying story. After dispersing, Terry and Teresa both lived in Salt Lake City, but didn't know the other was there. Terry was working at a grocery store in the neighborhood but Teresa lived in prior to her arrest. And after Teresa's arrest, she was investigated for the 1983 unsolved murder case of her older sister, Rosemary Norris, who was now strangled to death. The police determined she was uninvolved with this murder and it remains unsolved, have frustrating. Terry Nor died in 2011 at age 41. It's such a dark story. I know. Like those early ones that we did, it's just the worst of humanity. Truly. So crazy. No, no nothing. Right? Yeah. Well, speaking of, let's get into Karen's true crime stories featuring Persian mommy. Chloe Ailing, Robert Hevrilla, and Kim Wall. Oh! Tune in to conspiracy theories, cults and crimes, a crime house original podcast to hear about the world's most shocking secrets and nefarious organizations. Follow conspiracy theories, cults and crimes now, wherever you get your podcasts. And for ad-free listening and early access to episodes, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. And I wish we could do, there's so many of those. I'm like, this isn't the same, but there's no details. Yeah. Exactly. It's a breaking story. Right. So what I did was, I started my this week's murder. Didn't, I wasn't making any good kind of like strategic decisions as I was watching the case, because I stumbled upon a BBC show that it was a Reddit, it was a Reddit link to a BBC show called BBC Horizons that I think has been on in England for a long time. This is what it looked like, because there's like each, each one had different opening credits that one looked like 1978 and one looked like the 90s. It's like they're on solve mysteries. That's a great one. And so it was like the mystery of blank. So like, there's a thing in Florida called the Florida Circle. I don't know if you've ever heard of that, but that I was watching half of that when I was like, stop watching TV. Because it was like, oh my god, can you get it online? I mean, where can you get it? You can, it's just put into, see, here's the problem. It was a Reddit link. So I was watching half of that. And then suddenly the title started turning Russian writing. And then at one point, I tried to click off. And then it turned into like a Russian looking Facebook page. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. That's sad. It said something like the name of it, it wasn't Facebook. It was like, okay, summertime. And I was like, oh, I should throw this computer away. Absolutely. They're watching you. But not, but I only have half my script on. So I have to keep it for a little while. But I mean, like, yeah, I made a terrible, you know, click on links on Reddit. But I did. Yes, you do. Well, anyway, it's fun part of Reddit. It's said it makes it exciting. So so anyway, um, the story that I was watching and going to do isn't really a murder. Like, it's a lot of, it's a fascinating story about a mummy that they found in, um, uh, in Iran that, uh, or the seller was in Iran that had it and, and it turned out that it was from Pakistan. And that was, it was like, it was very newsworthy because the only mummies have ever been from Egypt. Egypt is the only place that did ancient mummification ritual. So this one might have been stolen. So well, they were, they didn't know when it was like, look, kind of weird and different. And then you see it, it's like, it's, it drew me in so quickly. And then it was like, but it was, it turned into a like ancient Persia, fucking zirxes. Like, it was the, the, the, the reading, the uniform writing on it said that it was the daughter of zirxes, um, who was the ruler of the, of the Persian Empire. I mean, it's all this shit. I have no idea what I'm actually saying right now. Smart. We sound really smart. The BBC can do that for you. Yeah, they can. I'm going to watch this. I'm going to watch this one special. Anyway, it turned out. So this woman who's actually, I mean, I guess I'll just, I wasn't going to talk about this one at all, but it's really cool because the woman, um, who started looking into it was a scientist, um, named, Osma Ibrahim. And she taught herself how to read uniforms so that she could figure out what it said on the, on the stone coffin part. Oh my god. And then that's how she figured out it said, I'm the daughter of zirxes. So it was this Persian princess from the ancient Persian Empire. And, but then she was like looking at all the details, whatever she's sending things off to experts all around the world. So they have the uniform expert in London. They have, they send the mat that's underneath the actual mummy off to, um, to get carbon dated. Um, they do all these things, right? And then they, and then there was a, uh, scientist that's in, um, I think he said it was the leading archaeologist in Iran. And he was, he's the one that came out and said, we don't have mummies in Iran. And they don't have them in Pakistan. They're only from Egypt. Therefore, if this is a Persian princess, um, then that changes like history. But that means that there must be, it was just this whole thing, right? Well, then as the information starts to come back and this doctor, Eberham is investigating everything. She's starting to notice little like work quirky things are standing out. Some fees. Yeah. So the uniform looks weird and she, you know, that's why she sent it to the guy in London that was the expert. Um, and she, uh, you know, there's, um, like that little differences in, in the mummification process or whatever. And eventually they come to find out they send it off to get x-rayed because they were like, well, in the Egyptian mummification process, they empty out the body of the internal organs. They dry out the inner body. Um, and they put a drying agent in it. They put the heart back in because the heart is where the heart is where your brain, they believed your brain was. So when cram that brain out, you gotta have that brain, they pull your actual brain out through your nose, right? Yep. They stick a thing in there and they basically mix your brain around until it's jelly. No. And your brain runs out. Your nose. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, yes. But you still have your heart, which is your real brain, which I thought was very beautiful. Yeah. And so when they x-rayed it, the heart was in there. It was, no, there were no internal organs. It was all the things. The brain was, you know, whatever. But they start to notice like the Egyptians, it was very, it's like surgical precision. So the incision that they would make to take the inner organs out was three inches. This one was eight on this body. So it's a novice. Right. They, um, the Egyptians would go up the nose to do that mixing thing with the brain. They on this mummy had broken all these bones on the palate. So they had done it. It's not the way. Yeah. Because this was like a sacred ritual. Sure. So they don't just like, fuck it up. Right. Especially with like a princess. Especially, yes, exactly. Especially Zerxes daughter. From according to that one huge movie, he was humongous. Okay. So, uh, then Dr. Assa Asma Ibrahim finds pencil lines on the outer wooden box. Pencils were invented two hundred fifty years ago. For three hundred years, I don't think she said, or they said, uh, lead, lead pencils. Yeah. So they're like, this is a total, this is bullshit. Then they get them the carbon dating from the mat that was underneath the mummy back and it was made fifty years ago. So they're like, what the fuck is this? So then they get a doctor to cut it open. And also they had taken CT scans to so they could see inside like the x-ray. The x-ray shows you like through, but then the CT scans, it's like, right. They cut all the way down. They can see each individual slice. And that's how they've discovered that the body that had been mummified. This spine was broken in two places at the neck and at the lower back. And oh my god, oh my god. Yeah. So they're like, okay, this is not this Persian princess. What was her name? Like Rodriga or something really hard to pronounce. And they open up the mummy and you can see it on the show. They show it. So fucking cool. They had their curling. Cut it open. This doctor, they just saw it open like with a bone saw. Is it x-ray? Well, because the outer cloth that the mummy is wrapped in. So the, your bandaged like a Halloween mummy inside, your arms are crossed over your chest. That's how you know it's royalty. And then, and then they wrap the whole body in a resin saturated glide. So it hurt. And that's what makes it hard. Got it. So to cut that open, they pull it apart. And it had gray hair. And it was a woman. And they actually made a computer-generated image of what her face might look like based on so cool. And they do that. I know, right. Based on the skull and then based on the area that she, that they said it was found, which was near the Afghan border. They're like women of this age usually look like this. Yeah, yeah. So now they have a murder case on their hands. Shut your fuck. So when does she from? What's that? When does she, when does she from? She had only died. So they can't, they mummified the body. Like when they discovered all this, they backdated. It was like she'd only died four years ago or something. And so someone went and got their fucking, their mat from their back porch. Yep. Let me see if I can get the exact same thing. I don't know why that's just a weird part to me where it's like, well, we got to put her on a mat. Yeah, why they didn't, oh, she died in 1996. Holy shit. That's what they found out. But I can't remember. I don't have it where that compares to what, but basically what happened is in the mummification process, they had to, like, they had to collect all their, they had to make their plan. They had to sample the team of stone mason's and these foragers and all these people that would be able to make this mummy look so realistic. Because when you see it, it's actually really beautiful and cool. Looking, there's like, they have this gold. It's like a crown of cypress trees as her crown. And then this face mask that they basically made, it's based on a different mummy, very early mummy's face mask. So it doesn't look like King Tut. Yeah. It's much more like handmade looking. It's really cool. They basically just had these perfect foragers and then just made these little tiny mistakes. A lot of people were in on it. A lot of people were in on it. Then they don't know if they were robbed or graved to get the freshest body or if they killed somebody. But the person who died died violently, which is why they think it was a murder case. I am in shock right now. Isn't it nuts? That is the craziest story. Here's the other thing. Since this time, two more quote unquote Persian mummies have been offered on the black market for $6 million each. When this one showed up first and it would sell on mummy, what's that? You can sell a mummy on the black market. The black market, the antiquities market, the black market for antiquities, you can do anything you want because it's just people robbing places and then selling these. That's why they're here. That's why there are tomb robbers and shit. Right. But this mummy was estimated, they were getting prices up to a billion dollars because this mummy was so groundbreaking of like, oh my god, there's never been a Persian mummy before. Well, I wonder if they'd even buy it if they knew it was a fake because it's just done so well. Well, but it's done so well, but there's a murder body inside of it. The people who buy a black market mummy's give a shit. Yeah, I think they'd still want it to be a legit mummy because also then you're spending all that money, they're spending that money for the history of it. They want that like, this is from the sands of time or time. I think someone would take a fucking fat discount to be like, no, this is just really well done for it. A re. But of a dead person. Hey, man, they're like, yeah, give me some coke while you're while you're in the last. I'm here. Oh, because they're just into bad stuff. Because they're a black mark. Let me get it. I think a black market buyers and sellers have like scary spies like they're not. That's not. They're not historians. No, and in the least, you know what? You you just provided me my transition. Oh, no, I'm gonna tell you this next story. Did you hear about this one, the 20 year old British model, who she went to Milan because she believed that she had gotten a modeling job. And I bet she I bet she did. No, I'm great. Yeah, it went great. And now she is Carla Devagan. Yeah, that's about how to say her name. No, she. She had an agent that sent her and the agent, his name is Phil Greene, said that this was a recognized studio in the city center of Milan. So he didn't think he was sending her to some fly-by night thing. Sure. That's like, you're like someone's paying to send me to Milan. Like the rest of the legit. Yeah. When she gets there, a man grabs her by the neck. One gram man grabs her by the neck. Another one injects her with a dose of anesthetic of ketamine. So so much of it that in Oxford or the ground. Then she gets put into a suitcase. No, no, no, no, no, no, not small places, please. Yes, this one places. Yeah. And then they drive her around, winding unpaved roads for more than two hours, bound hand and foot with tape across her mouth. My gosh. She's taken to a rural house in Northern Italy and she's kept handcuffed to a wooden dresser. And then she is put on sale online on the dark web. See, this dark web. The dark web, she's put on sale, but then at the same time, a ransom demand gets sent to her agent for $300,000. He knows that this point sums for how much? $300,000. That's not a lot of money. Right? I mean, yeah, you'd think if you're going to do a crime like this, you might want to. What if he's like, okay. Shoot for the moon. Yeah. So she, when she's stuck there, she tells him she has a child, the man that's there. And so then he puts her back in a suitcase. I don't know. Yeah, I think he does. And drives her to the British embassy in Milan. What the hell? Why is this money? He drops her off for the British embassy. Because she has a kid? Yeah. And he reported that killing mothers was against the rules of the shadowy criminal organization that this guy belonged to. What? They end up arresting him. He is... Wait, wait, wait. They were going to sell her for sex or to be murdered. Like, this was someone they were selling to get killed. I don't know. Do they sell people just to be killed? Probably. Yeah, I don't know. I don't either. I'm sure for sex or to be a sex slave or to be trafficked. Right. Have some terrible thing happen. You know, I mean, it's so sad because if we're hearing about this story, there's a million others that didn't end up. Right. How many people that don't have agents that don't have anybody that are like, oh, somebody thinks I'm a model. Or money to pay ransom. Yeah. Oh my god. So the guy's name is Lucas Powell Herba. And he's from... He's a Polish citizen with British residency. And he's the one that drops her off. And then he later gets arrested. Oh my god. And they also were holding her passport. So she couldn't leave the country until she gave evidence that her pretrial hearing was... What? Because when she told the story, they didn't believe her. Are you fucking... They wouldn't let her go home. Right. Because they were like, we have to see what's going on. We don't understand what this is all about. And then it turned out that her agent, the cops, like everybody were... And then the guy that did it, were all telling the exact same story. And they were like, okay, it really happened. What they apologized... They got their hands on the story. That's what's important. Milan, say you're sorry. Oh, that's awful. Are you ready for the next one? Abs of fucking Lutley. And Steven, tell me when I go too long, because it might be too long. No, it's still there. Okay. For hours later. This is for real. So this is my favorite because for like in the early 2000s, there was a viral video that, like an apartment website put out that had a girl. It looked like night vision video. And it was a girl coming out of a cupboard in an apartment in New York. And it was... The story, quote-unquote, was that she was living in the apartment and they didn't know. Yeah. Well, that was all viral. That was all fake. Oh, it was? Yeah. And she crawled out in the scariest way. Yeah. And I was lit. When we found that video and didn't know, we watched it at work 50 times. We were just standing around screaming and watching. It was amazing. I mean, it was an amazing piece of literature fiction. Yeah. Well, here's the story I found. This happened in Pittsburgh. Jerome Kennedy decided to stall, install a camera inside his attic. After he was hearing noises coming from the ceiling of his bedroom. No. According to police, that's according to police. He called them a few days earlier because he heard someone up there at night. But they didn't find anything. So he decided to put cameras in his attic. What would you do to see what was going on? I would leave. And everything. I certainly wouldn't take the time to put cameras in. But he did it. When he gets the footage back, the footage shows his neighbor, Robert Hartville, have Rilla crawling through the attic. So they live in like a... Like a condo thing where they share a wall. And he has gone up into his attic and then crawled over into this guy's side. No. And he's carrying... In the video, you can see him. It's so fucking crazy. I want to see this. He's carrying a drill and a light. And then he just lies on the vent that overlooks Kennedy's bed and his daughter's crib. For about... What does that say? For about 30 minutes. So he just looks through the vent. For half an hour. You're just being watched, sleeping. Yeah. What if he just was like, I just... I don't relax. It's me. I'm nice to see baby. I'm a little sweet baby. I like to see other people's lives. I'm not perverted. Not even when they're awake. I just want to see how happy they look when they're sleeping. He's the man who did its attorney who got caught on the video. Told the Washington Post that he has no criminal record whatsoever. And they're making this seem like a negative situation, but it's really not. It's there. There are some things that haven't been said that'll clear everything up eventually. Oh, okay. So what are some of those things? You're mentally ill. He was installing... A mobile for that baby. But he just wanted to make sure... Oh, can you imagine walking into your daughter's bedroom in the morning and there's just a mobile that's not... That you didn't have the surprise mobile. With the scary... Mobile? Mobile. Six. It's just all fucking skeletons and nightmares. It's just got nightmares. I mean... I just... God bless. That's my favorite. Like, that's my favorite... Did he go to jail? So they still have mixed... I mean, he had to do anything wrong according to his lawyer. Why would he go to jail? He didn't... It's a super positive situation. It's not negative. It's positive. Be crawling in the attic with a drill. With a drill. Oh... Okay. Here's the last one. This is... Insane and awful. Then you probably heard about it because a bunch of people sent us this one from the BBC News. Oh, that, sorry. That was from the Washington Post. The story of the man and the attic was from the Washington Post. Okay. And the first... The Mummy's from BBC Horizon. The Horizon Series, which... My new favorite show. It is... There's stuff on it. It was so cool. I want to watch all of them. It reminds me of Steven. What was that book you got us? The lifetime... Oh, it's... Mysteries of the Annex flame. Yeah, yeah. From the... They're like with the cover... Like the leather covers in the... Time life series. Time life series. That's what it reminds me of. Can I tell you my new favorite show? Yeah. Really quickly. I mentioned to you about this earlier. It's called Suddenly Rich. It's like on TLC. I miss just people who suddenly wouldn't... Like get a windfall. And it's like these... And how they can't handle it. Oh, happy it makes their lives. It's just like if you are reading my murder and you need a positive thing. It's like one guy who like you had to throw at a basketball game. All these like shots. And if you did, you won all this money. And he was like a poor kid from like... South America who had come on a scholarship and had to work his ass off. And then like suddenly won this money. And this woman who found like a painting in the trash in New York and it was worth a million. Like it's just like super cool show. There's the best. It's funny. Like... Did you just see the documentary about the lady who found the Jackson Pollock painting? Yeah. No, I didn't see it. But it was similar to that where it was just like famous artist. And they turned out it was stolen in all this crazy shit. Yes. That's cool. So suddenly Rich... Suddenly Rich. When you need a second break. It's not about my uncle Rich. Okay. Okay, so this one is fucked up. It happened in Denmark. A respected freelance journalist named Kim Wall who was researching a feature about a man named Peter Madsen who had built his own private 40 ton submarine. What? Called the UC3 Nautilus. Yes. Oh, I did hear this one. He built that through crowdfunding in 2008 and she went down to meet him to take a tour. It's not supposed to hold people, but they can show... She was writing about it. According to... Yes. This is what... He was doing a human interest piece about it. That's what's still troubling to me about this one is that I wouldn't be like, don't go alone. It's like you're a journalist and you're writing a piece about this person. A person who runs two companies and is a very relatively public figure in his country. As much as we're like, be careful. Don't trust anyone. It's like, yeah, there's certain situations where you'd be like, well, of course, it's fine. It's her job. But... So she meets him there. She's last seen alive August 10th as she departs with Mr. Madsen on his self-made underwater vessel. She met around seven o'clock on Thursday in the harbor area of Copenhagen and she got on this submarine. The last picture of the two of them were in the Sub's Conning Tower taken by a man from a cruise ship. So they saw the little submarine out there or taking pictures of them. I didn't know that there's a photo of them of the two of them on the submarine. Yeah. Yeah. And this... This one's... It's like right before sunset. And they... I mean, this is all on the internet. You can see all these pictures. But then Kim Wall's partner reported her missing the next morning. I believe it was 2.30 in the morning when she never came back from this trip. So initially, Peter Madsen told everybody that he had dropped Ms. Wall off after dark that night at the Halvandet restaurant on the northern tip of Rift Shalion very close to where they originally met. Did you buy that? It was good. Hey guys, I dropped her on. There's people in Denmark laughing so hard. I know. There's... Do you want that part to listen to this? I dropped her on a restaurant. No big deal. The restaurant owner, Bo Peterson, said that the area is very covered by CCTV and he handed the video footage to the police. Soon after that, Peter Madsen changed his story. Then he said that he... There was an accident on the submarine while they were on it and he had to bury her body at sea. What the... That alone, like if that were true, is just the... is insane. If that were true, the first story wouldn't have happened because you would immediately pull out and be like, I'm so traumatized, this horrible thing happened. Yeah. 10 days later, a headless torso that had been laided down with metal is found in the waters off of Denmark and is a dinosaur. Identified as Kim Walsh. Oh no. They believe that Mr. Madsen deliberately sank his 40-ton submarine hours after the search for her began. Oh my god. So... Uh... So here's the bad part. The torso... The arms, legs and head were removed from the body. Who? As a result of deliberate cutting. Um... And... which means that he did that to her in his submarine. Oh... Which probably means he plans to do it. Because how... What would you have that would cut a person on a submarine? Why would you have that handy? I mean, I don't know. I don't know. Submarines, maybe there's an answer, but like, did you bring a hacksaw? Why? On to your submarine? Yeah. Um... The lead investor investigator also revealed that the blood found on the sunken submarine was confirmed as Kim Walsh. Mr. Madsen's lawyer said he does not confess to anything and please not guilty. He wasn't a negative thing. Yeah. The DNA match doesn't change my client's explanation that an accident happened. Um... And... Okay, so... So that happened, right? This guy is... Um... The Skipper and Designer of the UC-3 Nautilus a privately owned submarine. And reports describe him as a hobby engineer. It's not clear what his background or training is. Um... While building his own crowd-funded submarine... Which is insane. Like, you guys are charities that you can crowd. You can give money to... Give me money to make my own adult boy submarine. Yeah. Um... So... He gets a built... Then he has volunteers and people working on it with him. Um... But then in 2008 he moves on to what they call a more lofty ambition. Space exploration. So he's like... Denmark's Elon Musk essentially. Um... So he's now running the Rocket Madsen Space Laboratory. Which is also a fun... Which is also a fun laboratory. What? Could we call it a laboratory? A laboratory. Um... Filled with aluminium. And... That's also funded by donations. The aim is to launch a rocket from a floating platform in the Baltic and send a person a doubter space. Again, so many hungry children. I mean, do we need to keep... Giving money to the bucket? I mean, I... It doesn't... It really doesn't seem like it. Um... So it turned out that he was... They were talking about that he had a dispute with the group of volunteers that were maintaining the sub. And he left them this message on a website. Um... You may think that a curse is lying on the Nautilus. That curse is me. Um... There will not be peace on Nautilus for as long as I exist. Wow... What a craze. And seemingly he's talking about... Like these volunteers and some kind of fight that they all got in together or something. Yeah. Uh... Yeah. That is so crazy. Isn't that awful? Yeah. And creepy and... The weird thing is like... If that were... Why take off her head and limbs, like clearly are hiding something? Yes. Shit. Phew, we are back from some epic stories. Such a bad idea. Doing that many. So it's just so clear I'm trying to cover my ass having not done my homework. Where it's just like I have a little bit of this over here. I have a little bit of that over there. We're going to mix them all together and try to make this true crime podcast work. And so how old were you when you got diagnosed with ADHD? I never... They won't help me. They won't help me. I've known you for a long... I think I've known you long enough to be able to diagnose you if I wanted to. Clearly and hell yeah. It's been like this since I was about eight years old. And they just said that you were a bad kid or you couldn't sit still or you wouldn't pay attention. They didn't really talk about me much. You know what I mean? That's the problem. That's the problem. I was just kind of the second one that was also there and sometimes mouth off. And then mostly it was like go outside. I have every kind of med. If you want to try them we can just do like Monday. Monday we can do by this. Tuesday we can do Adderall. Oh I've done I've done my share of Adderall. We're like why do I feel normal now? And I'm okay it's not literally. Yeah it just truly balancing myself out while other people are freaking. I freaked my friend out one time. We are doing drugs and I was so calm. And he was like, where are you like this? And I'm like I don't know I feel great. I feel normal for the first time in my life. I love this lifestyle. Here I am. I know. I have a great psychite. I have a great psychite. Okay. I have a great psychite rest. Okay. So here's the updates for this slop. Listen I have two jobs at this point. No I'm not. Two you're fine. You're fine. Okay so the person princess there's no update for that case. No one has solved the murder of the woman who is mummified. Unfortunately Chloe Ailing. In this case the person who kidnapped Chloe with the help of his brother Michael is Lucas Herba. If I'm pronouncing that correctly. And he said he claimed he had fallen in love with Ailing and that the two had allegedly staged the kidnapping together to ease her financial struggles following the birth of her son. A lot of quotes from him here. In June 2018 he was sentenced to 16 years and eight months in prison. Of course he made an appeal. The sentence was reduced to five years eight months. He was released in 2022. Chloe continues to model and she was on celebrity big brother UK in 2022. And she also published a memoir called Kidnapped, the untold story of my abduction. In 2024 the BBC aired a six part series called Kidnapped the Chloe Ailing story. The creepiest story of all of the man crawling around other people's air ducts so he can stare at a baby. That man Robert Heferilla was found guilty of one count of criminal trespassing and he was sentenced to probation and a fine. Mm-mm straight to jail as they say. I mean there's a lot of things to be taken into consideration on that one where it's like it was your obsession to go look at a baby. Every time you say that like cringe. Yeah well then we can move on to the Kim Wall story but I just want everyone listening to know this that I did not do justice to the Kim Wall story in this and I did cover it again in more detail and fully in episode 126. So we're going to rewind that at some point where we re-winding a story we already did. I love that every once in a while there'll be a story where we're like this sounds familiar. I think we covered this and it's like you did but you did it really well. Right right. So this was this time essentially in January 2018, Madsen was charged with murder in decent handling of a corpse sexual assault. He was sentenced to life imprisonment in April of the same year. In October of 2020 he attempted to escape from prison after threatening an employee. He was caught. He was brought back the following year. He was sentenced to 21 months in prison for the attempted escape. And then in 2020 there was a six part TV series called The Investigation and that detailed the indictment and the investigation into him. And then in March of 2022 there was a two part documentary called Undercurrent, The Disappearance of Kim Wall. And in September of the same year Netflix had their own documentary called Into the Deep, The Submarine Murder Case. And I think that's when it really blew up. Yeah. That of course that Netflix documentary. So there's that I really tried to like I think I tried to do all Kim Wall for that. And I realized I didn't have enough information. And so then I tagged on a bunch of ones that I had already started. That's okay. I apologize to you and I apologize to all of the world I guess for being for always being a half-asser of homework on a podcast where it's all homework. Yeah, all the time. Turned out okay. God damn it. All right, let's head back in and we'll wrap up the show. Oh, I didn't think of a positive thing this week. Oh, yeah, you have to think of one. Okay. You know what? I'm really excited for our tour. No, I'm not fair. Pack, okay. That's not a thing that happened to you. You're right. That's the future. Well, I was going to say I went bowling at this tiny bowling alley in Montrose. And did I show you that picture? Mm-hmm. It's the cutest. It's like almost a third of the size of a normal bowling alley. And it's totally from like the early 60s, maybe late 50s. Oh my God. And it's not all modernized. No, no, not at all. And it's like it was Dave Anthony's birthday. Yeah. And it was super fun, but you can rent it out for private parties. Oh my God. And where's Montrose? It's the one that's kind of up. And so once it got up in the hills, it's kind of by Altadena. Okay. Like, basically if you just drive right above Glenda. Sure, sure, sure. Oh, okay. And it was just perfect. It was like my favorite party because there was chatting and lots of people that I love. And there was like crazy loud music, so you can't talk to anyone like at a bar. No, and also people would bowl, but then they would stop bowling because you know, you only want to do that for a certain amount of time. I have bowling alley parties. Yeah, that's a great idea. I think I might have a party there. I'm going. You're like actually, no, you're not invited myself. She even told me not to invite you now. I just invited myself to your party. You're automatically invited to the party. Yeah. Yeah. I'm automatically coming. So let's suppose my dad came over today and helped me with my finances. Oh, how was that? It was good. He didn't yell. There was a moment where I could hear the tension in his voice. I also don't think he knew what he was doing. Right. I think in the long run, all it was was someone was sitting there with me saying, you have to do this now. And there were 14 times where if I had been on my own, you would have just walked away. There were 14 times where I'm just going to do this later. I'm just not going to do this. And he was like, well, let's just do this. And then we can do that. And I like ended up doing it. That's great. And it worked. That's great. Yeah. And it just made me, maybe happy that there's a huge weight lifted off your shoulders. Huge weight, but also kind of gave me that like, oh, dad. That's what dads are before. That's right. He didn't know what he was doing. He was like, I was going to be a CPA and something and a money lawyer with our tax lawyer. And I dropped out and I'm like, what the fuck are you doing here? I thought you know what you were doing. He's like, I'm not really good with numbers. I thought he was. Did he really say that? That's so funny. But he ended up just sitting there while I did a bunch of things. And I had someone to, I was like, well, this number is this. And he was like, he just sat there and it was great. That's so good. So it was really nice. And yeah, my dad was very patient when I went through my extreme financial crisis because I never said a word to him about it. Because he is so paranoid about money and he's so, he's been on it. Like he used to lecture me about you have to make sure you get your taxes done from when I was like in junior high. It was just like a reminder. I would be like, I never, you don't want the government after you. He'd always say shit like that. That's such a dad. My dad did that too. My dad gave me my first bank account. It's what they do. Yeah. It's what they're into. He's like braces and a bank account. That's what I can provide you. Not a ton of affection. Not good life advice because my life isn't, isn't shambles. Well, that's good. That makes me, I get a lot of relief from that. You do too because it's also your finances. Oh, 100%. Because it's my favorite murder finances that I screwed up. Oh, really? You get, you have a bonus in that we're not going to get arrested. Yes, that's very true. But also, here's your bonus in me. I could never judge you. If you were like, hey, sorry. I lost everything. I know. I'd be like, oh well. I actually heard that. You're said that's what I can say. I said that today where he was like, you got it. You should make sure, because if someone was my favorite murder stuff, he was like, you should make sure Karen can see all this. So she knows like you're playing her well. And I'm like, oh, no, she knows. She knows. And she knows how fucked I'd made it. And she's cool with it. Yep. So because those huge weight off my shoulders, that you are okay with it. Of course. Here's the thing. At the end of the day, and I'm not, this sounds phony. It's only money. Now, when I don't have money, I don't really feel that way. No, no one does. No one does. But truly, people do such terrible fucking things to themselves and to each other because of money. I've seen it happen. It's very bad. And when people are focused on that, at the end of the day, think of it. You get a check. Obviously, a lot of us are in, you get into a bad place where you're like, yes, $5,000 would solve this, this, and this. And that's true. But if you were above level and then you had a $5,000 check, this is what happened to me when I worked, when I had my first big job. Yeah. All I did was work. And so I had absolutely no life. And I just collected money and bought cashware sweaters from J. Crew. Because you were all I did. Because you thought you had to spend it because you were working so hard. It was the only thing I could figure out to do to like, oh, maybe this will make me happy. And so I had cashware sweaters in every color. And I was more miserable than I've ever been in my life. And that's when I learned that lesson of like, I wasn't doing stand-up, I wasn't performing. I was just a behind the scenes, behind the camera person that was giving all of my creativity to someone. And it was fucking killing me. So it didn't matter how many fucking cashmere sweaters I had. I showed up in at work because you showed up at a miserable job. You know, my thing too is that like, I've been poor before. I've like pretty much up until I was 32, been pretty paycheck to paycheck from childhood on. Yeah. And it's not the fucking, you still can have happiness and survive. 100%. Like you're not happy because you don't have money. It sucks. And there is a part of you that's unhappy because of it. But you still get to have positive life experiences. So money, having money is not going to take that away from us. That's right. Well, and also sometimes when you have to get a little creative, you can have better and more rich life experiences because you're actually kind of in the mix. Whereas I think sometimes when you have money and security, you become very isolated. And you also start living lives that other people can't relate to. Yeah. So you're just kind of like, you know, we're fucking tenacious. Or what was the other one? Resilient. Resilient. This is why I always support all the murdering those who make shit on FC and sell it. Like my favorite murder style. Yeah. Because like, oh, yeah, I wish I had had that when I was fucking broke. Yes. Make that fucking money. You guys create your awesome art projects. And your cool shit. Your calligraphy. Yeah. Right up some shit. Amazing. Amazing. Just don't, there's one person who's selling our logo on something. Oh no. You have to make it. You have to make it. You have to make it. You have to earn it. And don't be afraid to give us credit since it is our show. Just plug our show. I mean, yeah. We are, you have to pretend you fucking made it up. Give us credit. Take your money. Take your dirty blood money. Literally. Okay, we're back. I want to say I don't say anymore. I was poor because I say I was broke. That's my logo now. And I just want to say like make that know. I think being white and having that privilege and knowing that makes it so. I had privilege and poor isn't the word I want to use. You know, we didn't grow up with money at all. I, you know, we struggled. But well, in the context, that's what happens anytime you pull the context out and you include everybody in it. Right. You immediately, if you understand, like the white privilege puts you in a different place, that's all and that's great to say. Yeah. I mean, then so many little things that my parents even cared that I had a good education. Like, I know those things made it so that I wasn't stemically poor. Yeah. I, we were broke. Right. You know what I mean? Yes, totally. Also, I just want to say that you say you don't have one a positive thing that week. And then I'm like, you have to do it. And then you give one and I'm like, not good enough. So, you know, I would like to acknowledge my privilege in being able to think of things easily. And then when you say, I don't know if I can, I'm like, do it. Can't do it again. That made me laugh. Well, yeah, I don't think it's the worst thing to like force someone to think of positive things in their life. Let's put it that way. Yeah, you have them. It's a good like a reset just like in the way you're saying. Like if you can reset the lens through which you look at your childhood or the lens through which you look at your experience, it's easier to kind of stay up or get up. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Look at that. Look at us. My medications working. Hey, give me some. Give me that psychiatrist number. Everyone, her name is Cheryl. No, I'm not going to give it to you. All right. Okay, we're going into what we would name this episode. Now it was originally named Harvard too. Yeah. Can't beat it. Sorry. What else is there? There's a hands down situation here. I guess all of the halls, when we talk about Rebecca Hall, Michael C. Hall, all the halls we could call it. Also, of course, we're talking about Janet, little shop of horticulture's cute. I still love that. My son, New Jersey. That's great. Virginia, New Jersey. All right. Well, thanks for listening here in 2026. Let's hear ourselves say goodbye in 2017. I wonder if I do it in four parts. You guys, thanks for listening. Oh, we love you. Stay sexy. Don't get murdered. Bye. Bye. Yeah. Elvis, want a cookie? Yeah. Yeah, Mimi, want a cookie? Mimi? Elvis. That was Elvis, didn't he, Mimi? Yeah, he's like, yes. Yes. He was a young Marine. She didn't care about convention. They made a life together. Then one night, the Marine died. And then the death investigation took a wild, unexpected, and utterly bizarre turn. I'm Josh Makewoods, and this is Trace of Suspicion, an all-new podcast from Dateline. Search Trace of Suspicion to start listening now. Get three months half price when you switch to an unlimited SIM with three. That means quick streaming, faster downloads and more money to spend on the things you love. Join the UK's fastest 5G network and get your unlimited SIM today. Buy now in store or see 3.co.uk. Unlimited 24 month light plan. Proof of switching required, based on Euclis B test intelligence data, 2H 2025. All rights reserved, subject to credit checks and terms.