Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 85: Live at the Boulder Theater

This is Exactly Right. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world. The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to Doubt, The Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton Eckerd. In 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. But here's the thing. Bachelor fans hated him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would. That's when his life took a disturbing turn. A one-night stand would end in a courtroom. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello. Hello. And welcome to Rewind with Karen in Georgia. That's right. It's Wednesday. And that means that we are recapping our old shows with all new commentary and updates and insights. Today, we're looking back at episode 85, which we named, you're not going to believe this, we named it Live at the Boulder Theater. How? How do we come up with these things? So this is our live show in, you guessed it, Boulder, Colorado. And this episode originally came out September 7th, 2017. Aw, cute little 2017. So long ago, a little baby. All right, let's listen to the intro of episode 85. What's up, Boulder? What's up, Boulder? I was like, see, they don't like it when I do it. That's so embarrassing that we didn't turn our own fucking mics on. I mean, we've never had to. I mean. so folder yeah we said it we did it ever since the one time I walked out here and like what's up and pointed at the upper and there was nobody there I now go hey just to make there was no well here's oh they're here oh yeah oh they're fucking here oh yeah and they're here for revenge I actually told Georgia earlier, I was like, so just be aware, it's like a much smaller room. So just know if they're quiet. Doesn't mean we're doing bad. It's just smaller. And we step out and you may have popped my eardrum. I'm not sure. There we go. The show won't go on if our eardrums are popped. Or it would be really funny. Just see if we could. Loud and quiet at the same time. Last night, we were at Denver, and you guys are cooler. Pandering, pandering, pandering. Hey, this is my favorite murder of the podcast. That's Karen Kilgara. I'm Georgia Hartster. Who didn't know who was who? I didn't. I'm happy to learn. You are so high on altitude sickness right now, aren't you? Oh, my God. I fucking hit that oxygen tank backstage so hard. And thank you to the Boulder Theater for coming up. I'm like, I heard someone needed oxygen. Come on down. I was like, oh, my God. They actually said, we heard someone was lightheaded. Do they need oxygen? And she's like, yeah, I'll have some oxygen. Oh, my God. Because I woke up from a nap, which I'm usually like, nap, hey. And then I was just like, I don't know what I'm doing. We're going to turn into, it's going to be a blue velvet situation in like a month. or just like, could we have our oxygen tanks on stage with us, please? Yeah. I know we're below sea level. It doesn't matter. Yeah. We do what we want. We've been blaming everything that's happened on Ox on the, what's it called? Altitude. Altitude. Yeah. It's fine. We're fine. Since we've been here. Some real funny shit that is not because of altitude. My shoes hurt. Altitude. Your shoes hurt. There's been, everyone's gotten really comfortable with the farting situation, which is just belching I mean we were we used to be so modest and it's just like their air has to come out of me and we can't pretend anymore but I gotta say it's a little bummed because like sometimes I really want my I like fart in a funny way to be like hey and like punctuate it and I did it and like nobody laughed so I was like did I offend them sorry wait a second you like intro your fart like a hey and then a fart no I say a dumb joke and then I'm like punk like you know just like to be like you physically punctuate the joke only if i have to fart you do like on purpose you do like an unspoken pull my finger sometimes how come i don't fucking know this i don't know maybe you don't i've done it many times in front of you and steven Steven Steven Oh Karen Steven is at home right now I figured you guys would know we leave him at home He's not that great It's mostly the hair You guys don't fall for it We don't tell him he's coming and he's like waiting outside with a suitcase and then we just don't pick him up It's not like that Maybe next time Steven Oops We forgot. It's like Home Alone. Except he's crying the whole time. Not dead in the heart with Macaulay Culkin. I don't care. Home Alone with a mustache and cats. Which would be a better film. And you know it. He has a pet cube, which basically means you can spy on who's ever taken care of your cat. And it was like a laser thing. And he's on it. He set up basically a hidden camera in my house to watch the cats. himself? Yeah. He nanny cammed himself? Yeah. Wow. And I think he can put it online so maybe you can watch cats sleep. Is this a new business of yours where you're like and for $9.95 you too can watch Stephen and my cats sit. One cent goes to the ASPCA. One cent of every just one cent total. just one cent will go to every we had a vet come we had a vet come to the meet and greet yesterday it was so lovely and she gave us a ton of pet like cool pet toys which was so nice that you now have to jam into your suitcase they're the size of dogs I like that you're just bragging about presents now you're like hey so we have some pretty big vet presents right now so right now right now. I would. Well, if it's bragging time, then I would like to brag about my Bigfoot necklace, which I... Uh-huh. I hate so... It's funny on different levels. Yeah. Go ahead and tell three of them. Well... One is that it's Bigfoot, so you're like, I spotted Bigfoot! You know, somebody's not gonna say that. That's funny. Yeah. It's also funny because it's fucking awesome. Okay. And it's also funny because when you saw it, we both bent down and hit heads. I forgot about that part. Oh, fuck. I was like, when I do things like that, I kind of hate everything. So when I see something I love, I'm so overcome with like, how could this actually be happening? I go blind to everything else around me. So I was just like, a Bigfoot necklace? I'm like, really led with my skull. Poor George. Just like, oh, look, a tiny little... And then I headbutted it. And I had glasses on, so they kind of like stabbed me in the top. But then it was like, it's a great necklace. necklace it was worth it i think it was worth it yeah it's okay it's okay um and then so it was at buffalo exchange because this like lovely girl said you guys should go to buffalo exchange yeah everyone loves buffalo exchange um i think they worked there and so we went and we're walking in the front door and this girl who's standing there looking like she works there uh yells at us shut the front door so i'm like because it was like there's five of us all together and i was second in so I was like whoops okay and I just kept walking and I'm like fuck we're already in trouble in Buffalo Exchange and then as I'm walking by I see she has a giant SSDGM necklace on and I was like no she didn't mean it like that come back it was as if she had placed herself in the doorway of the first place we went in Denver to just like shut the front door very bizarre I think she did it. I think she's been stalking us because she was like, here, I have a present that I just bought you. Like she had bought me. I think she knew we were coming. I wouldn't accuse that on stage. I would. But she was lovely. I wouldn't float that theory. She was lovely and talented. How would she know where we were? Because she told us go to Buffalo Exchange. Yeah, but then what? She went there opening and was like, you know what? 10 a.m. I just, I'll stand here in the doorway. It worked. With my necklace on. You're right. It did work. So I'm just saying. Anything is possible. Yeah. Thanks, that's my new song, Anything is Possible. If you're wearing a Bigfoot necklace, that's in parentheses after that part. And you expect the worst in people, like they're yelling at you to shut the front door. Shut the front door, I just take as a direction. A yell at you. It's like, there's all the air conditioning in here. Shut the fucking door. You're letting the air conditioning go. we were going to talk about our prayer from last night we like to do a little prayer before we walk out on stage but before you applaud us Christians, it's not it's a it's an abomination it's not look, we just try to access a being that we think might help us do this correctly for all of you who have waited so long and care so much and send us pictures of yourselves standing around all day and night waiting for the show to start. So last night... We want to connect because we've been running around backstage and all these people are giving me oxygen and we're just like, okay. I'm getting the defibrillator. It's all crazy shit back there. So we wanted to be like, alright, you me, you me, you me. And then we just start saying words. We go like, dear, and then we pick a deity that we enjoy. Or like a person. Or just somebody fun. Taylor Swift. and last night I said dear Buddha but there was a that video was playing and Georgia said I went dear Groupon and then we're like the prayer's over that's all we need to say we're ready to do the show that was it tonight was a lot more heartfelt yeah we both journaled and feeling pretty good I I feel like suddenly I don't want to talk about the house we went to today. Oh, are you kidding me? Why did you do that? It was Mark and Mindy. It's all they want. It's why we're here. We went to Mark and Mindy's house. No, that's not true. I mean, it's where every murderino in the nation wants to be. For a minute and a half. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Drive by and everyone goes quiet and we go, well, not better than us. We all stared in silence and went, I thought it'd be bigger. Like as we were, as we pulled up, we're like looking around and we're kind of like, hmm, we thought they were richer than this. Snobs, immediate snobbery. Does everyone around here own a plane? Because this did not seem to be Ramsey-level richness at all. They should sell the plane and get a bigger house. That's right. Then you're rich. Or a landscaper. Or don't be horrible. And then that's what I said. How do you like that? We sat there for a second, and then Georgia was taking pictures, And I was like, I don't know why, but I feel like I need to look down. And then I started getting obsessed with all the people that work out watering their lawns and stuff. Suddenly there was like a man watering his lawn and a mother playing with her child. And I was just like, oh, no, this is so dark. And then he sprayed us in the face through my rolled down window. And he's like, get out of here, you kids. You creeps, what is wrong with you? But it was worth it. It was worth it. It's just, I mean, what was going on with that fucking family? And then we found out, we found out they like cemented off the basement. Yes, our Uber driver told us that. And we were just like, well, that's why you couldn't sell it. Because the monsters who would buy it want the basement. I just love that I bet you like 89% of the Ubers you get into in Boulder if you were like hey so what do you know about the Ramsey household they'd be like well let's go through a list of things um my mom was the secretary at the like fuck yeah like total fuck total fuck well on that note should we sit down oh yeah this is a nice little setup yesterday no i don't want to throw the theater under the bus but oh are you caressing the i just felt like i needed to have a tactile moment it's nice my manicure matches my chair so oh it's like you're meant to be fate that's your that's your soulmate you want to go back okay uh yesterday at our show we they they they brought uh a high top table like from the smoking patio is what karen said just threw it on stage and that was it it was just one of those ones that like i've been like three pitchers of beer drunk on so many smoking patios and you're suddenly you're leaning on one of those, like a wrought iron table that you can kind of stick your fingernails into the holes as you're like, what am I doing with my life? But then they're the ones that are so wobbly and you're the one who keeps sloshing beer out of the pitcher. Karen, stop leaning on this. You're like, I can't stand up on my own. Oh, fuck. Speaking of, really quickly back to Buffalo Exchange where everything happened. um i uh while i was in among the gowns um somehow i have this thing where everyone smile i don't know if it's a muscle spasm or if it's consciously i don't want myself to drink as much coffee as i drink but every once in a while i don't know if you do this you just kind of squeeze your cup and it just flies out of your hand but anyway i walk around a large rack of dresses and just see karen standing near just a pile of coffee it looked like a small pond um and it was honestly time slowed down as it left my hand and it the it was like a full rotation upside down and like like coffee i saw it all like there should have been wagner playing underneath it it was so fucking dramatic and horrifying among all these like gorgeous pieces and i'm just like i'm gonna throw some shit Starbucks around here if no one minds. And I think I was like, run. I told you to run. Now these two lovely like twee hipsters came over and cleaned it up. I walked over and turned myself in. I'm just like, we have a major problem by dresses. But don't worry, it didn't get on Karen's clothes. It only got on Adrian. Karen's longtime friend, Adrian's clothes. I basically threw a cup of coffee on Adrian. After you told her to change that morning, right? No. here's what it is Adrian and I and this has happened all our lives my sister Laura and I we look alike like you can tell we're sisters but we don't look alike look alike Laura's best friend Adrienne since she was 11 years old and I look like sisters it's creepy how much they for someone who's not sisters and who's best friends with your sister it's creepy I have not lived in like my hometown for a really long time so anytime my sister and Adrienne go to a party people come up to adrian and go are you the comedian and then she's like no she's very unfriendly it's her brand and last night in denver we were dressed almost exactly like our hair is very similar and she said so many people were walking up and would get like a foot away thinking that they had seen me before the show and then they'd be like no and then walk away imagine how that feels to be on the receiving end of like abject disappointment 11 times before the big show starts so and i was like did you tell them you're the sister and they're like no and i'm like oh i'm the only one who just needs constant attention and praise everyone else is like no why would i tell them that the two of them are like we hate attention and we refuse praise um so this morning when we got up i got dressed i took a shower got dressed came out of the bathroom bragging that you take a shower what's that are you bragging that you took a shower totally bathed thank you um but when i came out of the bathroom adrian and i had the same outfit on again and she got so angry that we once again were dressed alike that she changed her shirt in it just in a rage and then an hour later i threw a cup of coffee on it accidentally so was it accidental will be the question that just sticks in our mind I mean it's just something to talk about a therapy next time when you and Adrienne go together I go to therapy with everyone I know it's necessary what's up do you want to talk about what else do you want to talk about I don't know I'd like to talk about junior high Oh man, what a time it was We have some slides Look what Stephen made Stephen like made our slides look legit He's earning his keep That was for you Stephen He listens to all these recordings at home after the fact Stephen cut that out Cut all this out Cut the compliment out The compliment goes, cheering for you goes And we're back in and we're back you know i didn't give a shit anymore and i was having fun at that point yeah you know i could tell i stopped being nervous at that point oh yeah completely like you trusted yourself you trusted the process i mean in 2017 the innocence that we did all of this with and the kind of a bashed kind of like, hey, let's see what happens. I mean, like that was the joy of it for me because it was like a standup gig that was going to go well. Right. Totally. And that is like not to say that we're always great. It's to say that even moderate nice clapping is a hundred times better than most of the standup gigs I've done in my life. So I was just like, what a dream come true. Yeah. And then we would kind of just get high off of oxygen from there. I love it. I was like, I woke up and I didn't know where I was. It's like, oh, dear. Yeah. Real early days for us. But I do remember Boulder being such a charming, friendly city. I really, really liked it there. Like to this day when someone's like, do you like Boulder? Have you been whatever? I'm like, it's fucking darling. I just have such good memories of it. Yeah, me too. And we went to fucking Jamba. That feels dirty at this point, right? For sure. I mean, I think we don't do that. This is the kind of thing where I think that we were trying to figure out who we were as true crime fans because there isn't one way. And I think this is kind of what everybody knows now, but wasn't totally evident at the time where it's like the thing of I don't look at pictures. I don't want to listen to 911 calls. I'm never going to email a fucking serial killer in prison. But then we went to JonBenet's house and that felt like a step too far. Yeah, really. it was just driving down a street looking at a thing but we were just like how are we participating in this yeah and it does matter and also making sure people understand hey we did it and it didn't feel good so think about that because you might think you have to do this right and it is a good point of like we didn't know what I like the like we didn't know what kind of true crime like fans we were because it wasn't a thing yet. Like the way we did it wasn't a thing yet. We kind of like made it up as we go along. And now the rules are obvious. And the like, we all understand the assignment. But 2017, that's a year in to podcast our pod or year and a half in. It's so early. Yeah. For what we were also for kind of the opportunity. Yeah, I don't know. So it truly is like someone came up and gave us like acid and then was like, okay, go walk down that path, see what happens. That's looking back after this long, it's what it feels like. Yeah. And they gave us a rule book and we're like, great. And open it, it was fucking blank. And we're just like, well, what do we, but I will say since we did go there, I still remember the creepy feeling of just looking at this house that I had seen in pictures. And it just like, was this pressing reality of like, oh, something really, really awful happened to a very innocent girl here. And it feels bad being here. It feels bad if the neighbors look out and see that we're like us, that we're doing that. I don't want to be identified as someone who does that. Yes. So yeah, I remember it very well. Me too. And I also think it's that we're doing this and we're looking and da-da-da and we're pointing at the house and it's like, it's still a cold case. I think there's that piece too, where it's like the interest is not the house. The interest is not the street. It's like what people have to kind of refocus sometimes, refocus the interest. It's still compelling because we don't know what happened. Like we need to know what happened because a very violent, horrible thing happened. And what if it happened again after? It's like, I think we're so used to seeing it on TV and in movies where you can get a spoiler, you can rewind it. And then suddenly the actual house being there, it's like you can almost you still feel the horror of what happened without any answers. Right. It's just like it's just it felt bad and really sad. And I think that distance piece where and we've talked about this before, the distance of these cases from us in our lives was so far away when the podcast started. Yeah. And then just slowly but surely, we came right up to it where we're like, oh, that's right. Like now we have a responsibility or now we have like we need a point of view here that is the good point of view. We need to do the thing that's any option is available right now. We need to be conveying the one that like is best for all of us kind of idea which is like wild to consider Well you know I think later in this exact tour we went to Georgia to Atlanta and someone was like, are you going to go to her grave? And I think we said absolutely not. Like having had this experience. Right. It was just like, we now know what the boundary is. And like, let's try to stick on the right side of that. Yeah, let's keep our eyes out for that, where it's like, this is what are we actually doing? All of that is good. It's good to ask yourself. Yeah. The answer we have is we don't know. We will do our best. We try. We do. We'll still fuck up and we'll try to learn still. Yeah, that's right. All right. Should we get into your story now? Sure. We're about to listen to Georgia's story about John Agroo. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. A nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Letby. Lucy Letby has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the whole story? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was. No voicing of any skepticism or doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every single level if the British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to Doubt, The Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. This MSS officer has no idea the U.S. government is on to him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast. I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question, of his life. And that's a unicorn. No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable. This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton Eckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first Bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom, with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. Please search warrant. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. this season an epic battle of he said she said and the search for accountability in a sea of lies listen to love trapped on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts should we who's first tonight first shall we get into the shit Let's take the necessary moment of you turning to your friend that you brought who doesn't know anything about the murder, because your friend who was in CES got sick, and you're like, Danny, will you go with me, please? I don't want to go alone. I have anxiety. And they're like, okay, what is it? It's just a cool comedy show. Now you can let them know that here's when the horror starts. And we are not bad people. We're good people talking about bad things. Ready? And it's your town, so it's your fault. Thank you. All right, Boulder. You guys had, I want to say, I wasn't, I was impressed and then got stressed out because you don't have a ton, ton. You have like the old man. The old man. The old man. You have kind of the queen. Queen, which we can't do, obviously. We did it. Yeah, and then, all right, but you also have, you also have a guy named John Agru. I think I'm saying that right. Okay, so I got a lot of this from a dude named Kurt Mitchell from Denver Post's cold case section. What's funny? I was just thinking that maybe he's our Uber driver. This dude, Kurt Mitchell, that drove us here. I wrote this on the way over because he wrote this whole thing, and he was contacted by someone in the case to, like, help solve it. It's just pretty fucking, I want someone to please do that for us. but also but also solve it yourself and then just say that we did it all right can i keep stalling no you have to jump in okay on july 1st 1982 two fishermen who were looking for a good spot to fish in boulder canyon discovered not a mannequin the decaying body of a young woman who was covered only by a towel she had 11 knife wounds in her chest and two in her neck. There was a back, her backpack was nearby and police were able to identify her based on that as Susan Susie Becker. Susie is her nickname. She's 20 years old. Susie was last seen on the morning of June 20th, 1982. So like a little less than a month before. She was raised Catholic. She liked to listen to music? Yeah, but music. Let's call it. What you got? It's Rastafarian. So I'm not going to be able to pronounce that. Reggae? No, Rastafarian I can pronounce. It's the Naya Bingey music. If anyone can do it, it's you guys, Boulder. Yeah. I think she was kind of like a hippie, free-spirity. We have a photo of her. Can you put up the photo of her, please? There you go. Yeah, she was like a sweet little baby angel, hippie, free spirit. Okay. I take it back down now let's not bum everyone out too much let's bum everyone out now then a week after Susie's body was discovered a second body was found nearby 94 year old Orma Smith and you can put her picture up a retired librarian who went missing days earlier look at her, that's everyone's grandma from the 70s a retired librarian. She had gone missing days earlier, was discovered face down in a stream in Big Elk's Meadows near Estee Park. Near Estee Park. Oh, is that it? Is that it? One big sound? Estee's Park. What are you doing? Just keep going. Thank you. On July... What? What? What? There's a lot of S's. On July 9th, 1982. So two bodies in like eight days, if I can do the math. Okay, investigators got a break in the case on July 15th, 1982, when a 50-year-old man named John Argue, it says it's agru, agru, agru. Agru, agru. They don't know. I know. And I usually don't listen, so. A man threatened, this guy John threatened a 26-year-old University of Colorado student with a knife, but she had escaped. And he was caught minutes later. So I think like she was like, fuck you. And like neighbors must have been like, let's get him. I'm guessing. He was caught minutes later and arrested. John was on parole. He had moved to Colorado in 1982 after getting out of prison. In 1966, John had been convicted of fatally stabbing his 14-year-old sister-in-law, Susan Marino. Sounds like a dick. He had dumped his sister-in-law's body in a stream in Illinois and had been sentenced to prison for a term of 20 to 50 years. Guess how many he got? Two. You're all wrong. but he was released on good behavior after 16 years because he was a good guy in prison john turned out to be the uh orma the 94 year old librarian's neighbor and a close acquaintance of hers she was a super friendly woman and she would often let john come in and use her phone to make calls and he drove her around town on errands he drove her around town on errands like they were But he obviously became the main subject when they learned also that he would go hiking in Boulder Canyon, where the bodies were found. So John refused to speak to authorities and prosecutors, determined there wasn't enough evidence to file charges against him in either Susie or Orma's murders. But the attempted kidnapping charges were filed in the case of the co-ed who escaped, and he was convicted of attempted abduction. He remained in prison until 1989, and then 21 years later, John's niece, Cora Ami, who lives in Joliet, Illinois, became terrified of her uncle because he had told her that he had killed an old woman in Colorado. Just chatting? I bet they were drunk. right? How old was she? Were they just... She was a grown-up, I think. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. So she got terrified of him because he said this and he seemed to regret telling her that. Yeah, the morning after. You know the morning after, like, oh, what did I say to John? Did I tell Megan she should get her lip wax? Probably. No one to tell people they should get her... Or it was like the moment after where he's like, I killed this little woman. Ooh. dang it so she he started just like stand outside her apartment at all hours of the night and threatened her so she got a restraining order against him and he she said he had said to her you know how to kill someone and get away with it just become just become their friend and then anything police get they can't use against you because you're their friend and it was okay for you to be there it's like you were it's faulty logic yeah uh i think he's confusing a couple rules there or a couple moral fucking basics yeah like don't kill your friends yeah he had what did he watch growing up because just just fucking just barney just constant barney yeah a lot so um she called crime reporter kirk mitchell the dude whose article i got this from and the denver post and she asked if he would be interested in writing a cold case blog about the unsolved murder case of her aunt so she gave him all this information about him and what he how he had killed his sister-in-law all these years ago and kind of was like here's all this information can you believe this person is not in prison clearly he did these things. And it was 21 years later. So because of this, they reopened the case. And she called the Lemire County Sheriff's Office Lamer. Larimer. It's obviously Larimer. Larimer. What's nice about having a smaller crowd is that you can hear what they're screaming at you. Which I appreciate because now I actually can fix these. I mean that. We should have done a dry run through. Yeah. With pronunciations only. Why? then we wouldn't be this podcast anymore. She told investigators about her uncle's murder confession, and they had always thought he was a subject in all these other crimes, so they reopened the investigation. Awesome. Way to go, Kurt Mitchell. I feel like he's kind of a hero in this, you know? That he... Fuck yeah. Okay. Investigators learned that John had several purses and personal items that had belonged to him, to women, but his family had already thrown all the items away. So, I mean, I think they were just like, he went to prison, let's get rid of all this. Well, let's get rid of his purses, yeah. They were just like... Everyone gets rid of people's purses when they go to prison. He won't use them. When he gets out, they'll be out of style. They're thinking to themselves. Totally. Okay, so DNA extracted from cigarettes that had been picked up near Smith's body. Thank God they fucking saved them. I definitively connected John to her death. But before authorities had a viable case, he died of an overdose of medications. What kind of medication? Medications. Just some medication? Pick them. Oxygen. An oxygen tank. Oh, no! Fuck! I did an oxygen tank and heroin. Oh, my God, I'm screwed. Why would you combine like that? It doesn't make sense. And it was ruled an accidental death. So Larimer County authorities officially closed Smith's case, though, the sweet angel, in 2010. But they're reviewing murders committed in Illinois in the 50s and 60s before John Agrue was convicted of murder. And they're looking at murders in Colorado between January of 82 until he was arrested in August of 82. as well as murders near Joliet, Illinois from the time he was released from prison in 89. Becker's murder public announcement was made that the case was closed. So he never got, they had a suspect, he did it, but he never got brought to justice. And that's a bummer, but at least he's dead. And that was John Agrew. he self-medicated himself off this planet thank you jesus yeah yeah that's crazy so they think he did other murders before he had to have yeah yeah let's um that's him hold on yeah oh hello that's steven like 100 i'm sorry if you part that hair and grow it out on one side and put some nice curls into it and put a cat in his hands it's over constantly be smiling and constantly be nice and be so nice and never touch knives and not want to hurt harm one thing yeah that's him dead dead match oh um um yeah so if you if anyone was his i feel like they just need to go back and look at his like um phone book and be like these were his friends Let's call them and see if they're still alive. Yeah, just start on the phone tree. Totally. Hey, here's the thing. Did that guy ever come at you with a knife or anything? Okay, we're back. Are there updates for this one? There actually aren't any updates on this case. And we checked our email and there's no hometowns, which I'm really surprised by because it seems like a big one. Yeah. Send us some in. If you know more about this case or you have anything to tell us, you should email us. We always want to hear your connection to like a story we've already covered. It doesn't matter that we already covered it. Like we always want to hear about that. Yeah, for sure. All right. Should we get into your story? Yes. Okay. Let's listen to Karen's story about, what if you said no? You know what? I got to go. I actually, I was laughing because this is one of my favorite stories. like the first time I heard about it, this is what I'm in it for right here. Why? What about it? A creepy guy in the attic. Oh, you love people in walls and living in the attic. I can't get over. Sorry, there's been someone up there. What? Can you imagine? I'm not scared of it because I think I would have heard something. But no, like I think my senses are better than my spidey senses are better than they probably really are. We'll see. Okay. We'll see when we get that video take back from your attic. Wait, you've been filming from my attic this whole time? I've actually been living in your attic this whole time. You need to pay more attention. Okay, you're right. All right, let's listen to Karen's story about Theodore Edward Coney's. China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. This MSS officer has no idea the U.S. government is on to him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast. I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question, of his life. And that's a unicorn. No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable. This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict? A villain. A nurse named Lucy Letby. Lucy Letby has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the whole story? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was. No voicing of any skepticism or doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every single level if the British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton Eckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first Bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it, all I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom, with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. Please search warrant. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said, she said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. I have done nothing except get pregnant by the f***ing... Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, I love going first because now I'm just kidding. I know, right? Here's my thing of all the stories that I looked up. I picked one that actually took place in Denver because it's a story that has all the things that I love. and this is my podcast. So I'd like to tell you all a story you probably know because it didn't happen too far away. 36 minutes, right? It's the Spider-Man of Denver. Oh, I don't know this one. Yeah. I want to make a joke about the guy that starred in Spider-Man, but there's been so many that everyone would be like, that's not real Spider-Man. Toby, what's his name? All right. Denver, 1941. Phil Peters, a 73-year-old railroad auditor, lives in a modest home at 3335 West Montcrieff Place with his wife in Denver, Colorado. On October 3rd, she breaks her hip and is hospitalized. So since Phil's going to be home alone, his very lovely, nice neighbor tells him that while she's in the hospital, he can come over for dinner at her house every night. No. So he does it. He comes over to her house every night for two weeks until... And she's like, can he... I just don't know how much more I can talk to him about the weather. I don't like trains that much. Yeah. So the night of October 17th, Phil doesn't show up for dinner, and she gets really worried. because he's 73. So she goes over to the house to check if he's okay. And all the lights are out. And the front door's locked. And when she knocks, he doesn't come to the door. And that makes her more worried because she doesn't think he has anywhere else to go. So she gets a bunch of neighbors together and says, I'm worried about Phil. I'm afraid he fell down inside the house or something. I just made that up. Let's write the scene. um phil is such a good friend and he loves my cooking she said to her neighbors yeah she really just the reality is she just needed to buy her some milk yeah she was like guys guys gather around i need to get into phil's house so i can get some milk yeah i'm trying to make a pie and phil owes me big time yeah he's eating beef stroganoff at my house every fucking night for two weeks hot dish okay so the neighbors go all around the house they split up in my mind and they go all around the house checking doors and windows they're all locked there's this house is locked up tight there's they can't get in so a girl finds a loose window screen and pulls it open they figure out a way to jimmy the window up they basically break into the house she climbs into the window they wait beat four five also made up they wait screaming they hear screaming it turns out that she came upon the murdered body of Phil Peters. He was half-dressed. He was horribly beaten. He had more than 12 wounds in his skull. I feel so bad that I was like, okay, he's going to come over for a hot dish and kill her. That's what I thought was going to happen. Oh, you thought Phil was the man. That's why I was like, don't come over. What is she going to talk about? Fucking weather until he murders her? Now I feel really bad. I'm sorry, Phil. It's okay. I just got a message from Phil. He says it's fine. It actually used to happen to him a lot. Okay. He was really creepy. The police find his watch and cash on the dresser, so they rule out robbery as the motive. But they also realize and are told and check and see that this house is locked up tight, including the chain being across the front door, which means that there is a chance that the perpetrator is still in the house. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Now in my movie version of this they all realize it at the same time The neighbors and the cops they in a circle and they like well if that Right And the cops are like someone go in there and see Someone should go in there. Here's my gun. The cops, like to the girl that went through the window, honey, go upstairs. See if there's a man hiding. Yeah, see what? Or a nightstick. Yeah. So the cops start searching the house and they scour it. They look every single place for somebody that could have just murdered Phil Peters that's hiding in the house. How creepy would that be? No. But they can't find anything. The whole place is empty. No one is in there. The only thing that they find that's even, like, of interest is, like, a trap door for an attic. But it's so small that there's no way a person can get up there. So they're like, all right, well, we don't know what happened. No, it's not. Well, I mean, whatever. so uh they're baffled and the case comes to a standstill now meanwhile mrs peters whose name i never learned because who gives a shit what the wife's name is um she's joking it's not what i'm saying it's i literally checked like seven articles and she was always mrs peters It was 1940. Let's all be grateful that we live in 2017. So, yeah. So, Mrs. Peters has been in the hospital with a broken hip. Hey, honey, we have something to tell you. Her husband gets murdered, yeah. A nurse is like, I have some news now. Open your mouth and put a pill in it. Just take this pill. We don't know what your name is, but open your mouth and take this pill. Nobody knew what her name was. That's why they didn't. Mrs. Peters? Yeah. Her name was Mrs. They were like, Judy? Judy. No, it's not Judy. Sounds right. So she has to go home. Now, in the amount of time between the murder and Mrs. Peters still being in the hospital, the neighborhood starts to get kind of freaked out. Yeah. Because neighbors start hearing noises in the house. And then the cops come and they check the whole house and there's nothing there. Let's also forget about that thing again in the ceiling. Goodbye. Oh, good call. Good call. Bookmark that one. Yeah. Then there's a group of kids walking by one morning, one snowing morning. It's snowing now. Lies. And they look up and they see a ghoulish face looking out the window at them. No. Don't ever look up. Children should never look up. Look down always. So they, again, call the police. The police go in, search the entire house. Nobody's there. So then, basically, the neighborhood starts talking that the Peters house is haunted by Phil Peters, who got murdered inside the house. He's still in there. That's got to be it. His body's still... Oh, you mean that. It was winter. You mean the ghost. Got it. The cops are like, we're just going to leave him here for a while. Figure some shit out. So by the time Mrs. Peters returns, Gladys Peters returns to the home. Gladys Peters? I didn't. That has a nice flow to it, Gladys Peters. I think that's it. By the time she gets back, she knows that the whole neighborhood thinks her house is haunted. um but so she uh stays there i actually think the real thing that happened is she was there and in this one article i read it said uh while she was in the house she was startled and she fell and rebroke her leg oh yeah fucking gladys she's had it hard oh man i wanted like the startled thing i was just like startled by what a face in the window Yeah. So. Well, she probably shouldn't have said, hey, there's a ghost of your husband in the house. See you later. Go ahead and get in there. Then every single thing she does, she's like, oh. She's like fucking Vera formalized. Don't scare the shit out of an old woman with a fucking broken hip. Yeah. How about? Back then, they didn't care. They were like, we don't care what your name is, and we don't care about your hip at all. So. She hires a nurse to stay with her. Oh, man. Two of them start hearing noises. The nurse is like, no. The nurse is like, I mean, it sounds like, what's that? So at night, they both are hearing. The nurse thinks there's something in the walls. They're hearing something in the walls. And at first they think, oh, it's like, what everyone says when you hear noises, the house is settling. No. Bullshit. I'm like, it's 400 rats. That's the first thing I think. Or it's bees. It's so many bees living inside your home. Or it's a murderer. It's what everyone in this audience would think. Right? And I bet they're correct. I mean, we'll see. We'll see. Page two. So... Sorry. I had to find my spot. Okay, fuck. Here we go. Oh, my voice. The nurse gets up one night because she hears a noise. Uh-uh. Stay in bed. She walks out of her room and down, and she sees on the back stairs a thin, filthy wretch, and when she came upon it, it shattered its teeth at her. Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah. How do you even do that? Caps. Can you see that? All caps. It shattered its teeth. How do you do that? Horrible. It's nice with your teeth because you have nice teeth. But I have good ghost teeth. They're all short and scary. Picture them, like, they're all pointed. Yes. Shave down. Oh. Okay. It's for the movie. It's for the movie. I read this and right after letting the police know what she saw that night she peaced out as far as she was humanly possible so she was like no thank you so much she left and Mrs. Peters Maureen Peters is by herself so a kindly neighbor perhaps the same one making dinner for every fucking buddy comes over and she's like i'll stay with you no take her out of the home and take her to your house they're like it's like every it's like every haunted house movie where it's like you know what we're gonna make this work they always do that go to a hotel they're like i i know we saw a child with like all black eyes trying to give us a message but let's make it work yeah but maybe i won't maybe i won't see that yeah like wheel her over in her gurney to your house where you like to cook and sleep there maybe. Take her against her will in her gurney where she's strapped down. Yeah. Mrs. Peters. Nice hot dish. Not an individual, but a wife only. And I know that everyone's just like, I'll come. No. Beedee boo. Okay, so. Sleepover. Here's the nice neighbor and Mrs. Peters like, come on, those aren't real. Several nights later, the neighbor hears something rattling around in the kitchen. Like, are you surprised? Is she surprised at this point? Well, no, in fact, she's quite brave because she gets up and she runs to the kitchen without turning on any lights. Yeah. Yeah. Can you please tell me she has four knives in her hand? Like, that's the only way I'd be impressed by that. If she's just like... She has scissor hands. she slept with knives taped to her hands it was the only thing that was going to make a difference like hope she didn't have an itch on her face at any point when she gets to the kitchen she sees a ghost standing at the foot of the stairs she said it was a filthy wraith-like thing that vanished when she screamed vanished because he like ran to the side. Just a nice sidestep. She said vanished, but yeah, he just sidesteped. He crab walked out of there. Yeah. Yeah. And then I wrote, long story short, Mrs. Peters went to live with her son in western Colorado. Finally! That was it. That last one was it. They gave up. They're like, fuck this noise all over the place. I could have told them that from the beginning. name. From the point where you find a dead body in a house, don't sleep there anymore. Yeah, it's true. But I think back then it was like you buy your house and you pay off your mortgage and then you're retired and then you and your husband that used to work at the railroad yard or whatever. Who's not dead? Stay there. The one... Okay, got it. I'm just trying to talk you through it. Sorry, I'm mad. I just wanted you to see the logic of staying in a house where multiple times people have spotted ghosts and heard terrible things and where terrible things happened. So stay living there. I guess I've only lived in apartments in my life so I don't get having an attachment to a house in any way. Change it. Great. Okay. We don't know why people make the decisions they make but this is what happened. So finally now the house is just sitting empty. okay there's but because of the rumors of the paranormal uh or something going on there the cops take the house out every once in a while so one night on july 30th 1942 oh that sounds fun right the stakeout in the 40s take out in the 40s imagine the coats and the smoking the sunflower seed piling up ding fucking big old a huge car a car that's three times the size of any car now A slurpy size of like popcorn thing size of hot black coffee. Yes. But it's got popcorn in it. Yeah. That's how they used to do it. Coffee. At Starbucks, can I have a grande black popcorn coffee? Extra butter. Extra butter. That's going to be a thing. Okay, so as they're sitting there watching the house, the mailman comes walking up the street. light of day, normal day on July 30th, 1942. And as the mailman walks up, one of the cops is looking, still looking at the house. He doesn't give a shit about the mailman. He's still looking at the house. He sees the curtains pop open and a face look out. And right as it happens, he nudges the other cop and the other cop turns to look as the curtains close. So they're both like, it's fucking on. like donkey kong they get out of the cop car at what point at what point does that first cop change the pants that he peed at i all i can picture is the face of that face that comes up really fast and goes away in the exorcist that's all i'm seeing when i think about this face really fast so but this time with like flowered curtains lace flower curtains 40s curtains right maybe even a paisley. Paisley print. Or just a faded linen. In the film now, the two cops get out and run to the house while Katrina and the Waves Walking on Sunshine plays. Because it's my film. And they get, oh, they whistle, they whistle their cop whistles for assistance, which is precious. And then... Can you do it? What? Can you whistle? I want to hear it. Well, they have whistles, but... Oh, they have whistles? Thank you, I get it. No. I asked her, and I can't whistle. So when the audience is like, wait, I can whistle? They have a whistle. I get it now. Maybe they had whistles, too. They're like, this is from 1940 fucking 2, asshole. I bought it on eBay. It's the one from the murder. they go into the house immediately hit with the wall of odor it has like an animal smell inside the house a supposedly empty house for three months um they start they head upstairs and they start searching and as they're you know walking down the hallway scared maybe they're new one's old one's young he's about to have a baby like his mom said a baby about to have a baby this one's about to retire. He's too old for this shit. You've seen it. You love it. As they pass a doorway, one of them, I like to think it's the one who didn't see the face so it's even. One of them passes the doorway, sees a closet door shut. So he goes in, he opens the closet door, and he looks up, and there's that trap door open with some dirty, dirty feet hanging out of it. right we told them to open that door remember told them and they didn't listen oh my god Karen you're I see I forgive you for not doing I mean not that it matters they forgive you for not doing a boulder yeah okay so this cop jumps up and tries to catch a foot don't touch it dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty feet he instead catches a pant leg and it tears off in his hand and it's like super tattered shitty disintegrates like tired shitty pants get out of here with your shitty pants that's the new look the new style tired pants yeah he jumps up again both of his hands catch on to one of those feet and he fucking yanks it down out of the attic. I know. It feels like a victory. Uh-oh. That means it's not. And down comes Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god. A filthy, emaciated man in very tattered clothing named Theodore Comey's who immediately passes out onto the floor. Bullshit. That's like playing dead. Oh, you think he's faking it? Yeah. Well, we could play with that in the film. Yeah. Where you're not sure if he's really lost consciousness. He's lying there and he keeps opening one eye. He's like a little kid pretending to sleep where his eyes are moving around too much under his lids. Yeah. Yeah. Good. I like this. Someone write, Stephen, are you writing down our script? Stephen. Okay, so, this man is in his mid-60s. he's 5'10 and he weighs 137 pounds. Whoa. Quite thin. Yeah. So the whole of this trapdoor, they say, was a little bit less than three times the size of a cigar box. So it's like dink, dink, dink, however you would imagine. This-ish. No. I think, like cigar box like that? A little bigger. Yeah. Well, then you go, eh? Right? Then you have to go, eh? Don't go wide. They're not end to end. Are they? It's a square. You're right. I get it. Here's the thing. It's very small. Listen. I don't know math. I don't know cigars. I don't know cigars. Those are my two only things I don't know. Shit, sorry. I should have briefed you. It's a fucking tiny hole. Teeny tiny. so they go up so they go up and they're like they can't even get up into the attic the hole is so small because they're normal sized men do we have any pictures yet? do we have pictures? oh maybe, can I throw a picture up let's see what happens is that him? there he is all cleaned up that's the cleaned up that's the ghost he looks like a bummer he's just really dry and sarcastic yeah he's in a band real angry eyes actually he looks like what mimi looks like most of the time just grumpy as fuck oh mimi get away from me okay so they look up into this attic it's got a single light bulb hanging from a wire he's got a bed that's made of an ironing board okay masochist no no no he's got like a little bedding he's got a bunch of megal torn up magazines everywhere it just said magazines in my movie those are straight up triple x porn magazines he's he's not looking through like boy's life or whatever or what's the what's one of the like 1940s like movie star it's not that you will call it movie star because we won't be able to clear anything else for the movie. Totally. Right? Totally. Okay. And it smells so bad. Oh God, he's been shitting in there, hasn't he? Because he's been shitting and pissing up there. There's a toilet downstairs. But the flush! Okay. So... Did you say what the flush? No. Of course you didn't. Why would you say that? What the flush? No, I said... That's a me, not a you. Okay, so they have to take him to the hospital because he is so thin they think he's going to die um when he's released from the hospital he's brought into the police station for questioning so he tells them the story um he'd so as a child he suffered from such bad health that doctors told his parents he wouldn't live to see his 18th birthday and for some reason they told him that uh yeah they're like don't get attached to anything don't tell your kids that they're gonna die they're like don't sweat the small stuff and we really mean that like really or the big stuff try not to sweat it's bad for you so so he quit school which i would do um somehow he learns to play the mandolin which is actually kind of perfect that's great he is in the mandolin club in denver which i'm sure a lot of you are in also. And that's how he met Phil Peters 30 years prior. Whoa. Yeah. So he was a very sickly kind of young man that didn't do that much and, you know, had a hard time breathing. I was like, oh, baby. Except he's a murderer. That's your response. He's a murderer. Your response is, oh, baby, and mine's, I rolled my eyes. He can't breathe or something. Calm down. Calm down with your sickness. When he got older, he at one point worked in ad sales. He was also a bookkeeper at the Denver Brass Works. Axe sales? Yeah. Axe body spray sales. They invented it in 1939. Ad sales, you said. It just smelled like cigarettes back then. Ad advertisement sales. But his poor health prevented him from ever establishing a career. And so he basically spent most of his adult life as a transient. So by the fall of 1941, 30 years later, he had just been out on the road traveling around. And he had been doing it for so long and just getting sicker and sicker because he was spending winters outdoors. Do we know what he had? Just like, just shitty lungs. in my movie the doctor will flip open a like a thing and be like we're so sorry Theodore you've got a case of shit long and then he'll cry your lungs uh that technically just fucking suck yeah I mean there's no there's no upside. No cure? So he was back in the Denver area around October of 1941 and he knew he could not survive another winter outdoors. So he thought oh maybe if I go to Phil Peters house he will help me out. But when he got to the house nobody was home and the front door was open. Because Mildred he was with Mildred in the hospital. That's right. What? Is it my guardian angel? Mildred in wait I have some wishes so he opens the door and he's like I'm just gonna steal some food because I'm fucking starving I'm 5'10 and I weigh 137 yeah that's like what I wear nope that's what I weigh oxygen but I'm 5 shorter than that you're 5 shorter so that would be real thin it would be tough yeah but you could go into attics whenever you wanted that's true upside so so he said he went in he stole some food and then he realized this was this opportunity so he started looking around the house um and he saw that trap door and he was like this could be the way that i don't have to be outdoors for the rest of this winter or you could have waited for phil to get home and i'm like hey buddy i really need a place to stay yeah you i mean you could but maybe phil was just like half a dick maybe phil was just like he was like kind but he would hold it over you so he'd be like sure you can you can stay and have a banana and then you need a then just stares yeah just okay we won't put it in the movie fuck the people have spoken okay who plays phil good um i love this i love this let's work with this one for a minute i mean off the cuff i wanted to say bill pullman is he but he's older isn't he an older man you think he's older than bill pullman no i think phil i think phil's in his 70s right so let's go ahead right he was 73 we're then we're doing tommy lee jones as phil oh yeah that's good Yeah, right? Okay, all right. It's real, it's gritty. And I just like him. One time in L.A., we were driving up, I think it was... You're looking at me like I'm going to just start naming streets. Well, I mean, that would be the fun thing. Coenga. Los Feliz. What area? Santa Monica. I think it was Doheny. Doheny. Where the Four Seasons is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, yes. we're driving up it and there's a little bit of traffic and the Four Seasons Hotel, which is very fancy, as you well know, is right there where lots of celebrities go to hang out. And as we were stopped in traffic, I looked up and there's a black Mercedes and the window rolls down and it's fucking Tommy Lee Jones. And I went like this. And he was like, he gave me the old fucking sailor salute. That's a good one. And even in LA, you guys think we see, like, we don't see a lot of good ones. No. There's very few. Few, few good ones. Yeah. You'll see some people from the CW. They're beautiful. They're very beautiful. Yeah, yeah. And similar. But at TLJ, you're not going to get that every day. It was fucking magic. I saw Simon Cowell. What? But out the window of the car I was in, I was in the passenger side seat. and I saw him. He pulled up next to us with his window rolled down but unfortunately I didn't see him before I had belched loudly out the car window right as fucking Simon Cowell pulls up in his like whatever like a car that Maserati I don't know, Maserati. What do people drive that are... Everybody drives Maseratis. That's a Corvette. I don't fucking know. Did he love it? I just hid. He was like, it's a little pitchy. a little pitchy yeah he ignored me well then I just will say you juicy We just keep doing this Yeah One time on Laurel Canyon I up to trying to take a left onto Ventura you know and it's where all the studios are. It's literally called Studio City. And, uh, as I, you know, it's very nerve wracking to make left-hand turns in Los Angeles. And I just moved there like probably two years before. It's very scary. You have to, you have to really, you have to attack the intersection you have to take your space pissed at you behind you you can't win you always do it wrong it's bad so i'm out there really trying to like take my place in the world of this intersection well who comes up in a light blue jag but mr clint eastwood you get all the hot gruff older i get this fucking manly man and he was because the sun was shining in his eyes, so he was like... He looked like he was doing a Clint Eastwood impression the whole time. It was fucking so rad. It was so rad. Billy Bob Thornton. Okay. Yes. Another gruff fucking... I'm just saying his name. No, I saw him once. Did you see him? Yeah, I walked right into him. We were at a book. Remember when there was borders on La Cienega? You guys remember. Remember? I was walking around around the corner writing to someone I'm so sorry ma'am he was so polite and then Angelina just gives me the stink eye when she walks by they were in borders? like oh you tried to walk into my husband yeah you did girl I did not he wears a vial of your blood around his neck that's disgusting what that is so goes against everything they were doing at that period of time. Oh, borders? Yeah, they wanted a book on how to keep your marriage sane. Or they're just getting, like, one of those, like, map books about hiking. Just like, don't tell anyone we bought this. We're into nature. Lastly, most beautiful woman I've ever fucking seen in my, like, in person in my life. I mean, next level. Don't clap. Next level. Just that was all I took away from that. Anyways, where were we? Oh, Angelina Jolie. I thought you were building up to who that person was. No, no, no, no. Like, who could it be? She was so beautiful. Also, like, 5'3", though. Oh, really? Yeah, okay. I'm sorry. I thought she was tall. I know, they make it seem that way, but she's not. They're all very small. They're tiny human beings. When you go there, if you run into a celebrity, you go to Los Angeles, you run into a celebrity, you will think they're in grammar school at first. It'll like... Alyssa Milano, same deal. She was the first celebrity I saw in L.A. And it immediately made me want to quit what I was doing. because I was just like, oh, you have to be four foot eight. Yeah. And roughly 67 pounds. Yeah. That's the only reason we're not famous, you guys. I have a huge head. And we're persisting. We're persisting. All right. Back to the film that everyone's been talking about at Sundance. Okay, so when he's being interviewed by the cops, he basically says he never meant to harm Phil but once he was in there he like his thing was he's for the first so he all together he was up up in that attic for nine months living inside those people's house oh my god for nine months and at first he would just stay really really still and if he heard um anybody downstairs he would just freeze and stay still all day but um when it was still Phil in the house. After a little while, he got bored and he said he would sneak down. At first, he would sneak down at night and eat scraps. He would eat out of the garbage. He would stick his finger in the jelly jar and eat it. Go back upstairs. Also, who eats jelly raw? I mean, it was the 40s, though. That's true. We'll establish that at the beginning that everybody eats jelly all the time. They fucking love it. Right, right. Preserves. But with a spoon. Yeah. That's dessert at that lady's house. Okay, everyone gets a spoonful of jelly. And off to bed. Can I play the lady who cooks for him? Of course. But the lady that cooks dinner? Yeah. 100%. But you have to read for it. Okay. Oh, well, but I'm not getting it. No, that's how it is down there. It's show business. Yeah. Look, I love you. I want you to be part of it. But the execs are, I mean, it's my choice. There's so many. The line producer has to see the performer. Okay. Guys, let's focus. Not fair. Is everyone dying right now? No, we're good. Okay. No, they're not. Okay, so, but then he gets bored, right? So then what he does is he starts sneaking down when Phil is still in the house and shadowing him as he walks around the house. Everything up until then was like, oh, okay, that sucks. But now I'm like, oh, you're fucking crazy. yes because he said uh the quote is um that he didn't want to hurt him and shit i'm not gonna be able to find it because i've i've gone so far into my show business fantasy that i have no idea where i am in this document make up a line he oh that's right this is my movie He said what the fuck you want. He basically said, there it is, there it is. Are you sure about that? Yeah. No, I'm just reading to myself now. What a great story this is. God, this is fucking crazy. Something means you just stopped reading to the audience. He said, then I got bolder and I used to shadow him from room to room. It was sort of a game. Gave me a thrill. It was the first time in my life I'd ever had anyone at my mercy. That's not a game. It's also not at your mercy because he's choosing to watch fucking Ed Sullivan or whatever. Yeah, he's living his life. He doesn't know you're there. That's so Theodore. But then here's the rest of that quote. I didn't want to hurt him. It was miserable hot in the summer and my feet froze dead in the winter in that attic But it was all part of the price. I was willing to pay. I guess you can I can't tell you why I stuck it out. I guess because I was in a world on my own I used to go down and look out the window and watch the postman go by Nobody's written to me in 25 years Whenever I saw people on the street, I hated them and I'd go back to my attic I relate Nobody's written to me no if only he had one gotten one letter if only phil was like oh this is for you chad even just a bill or something yeah but no he was just mad about mail everyone's got their reasons you know um and then he said about the night of the murder everything would have been all right and phil peters would have been alive today if he hadn't caught me robbing the ice box his fucking fault that you broke in and yeah murdered him phil was asking for it uh it was him or me I thought he'd gone out, but he was taking a nap. I hit him with the stove shaker. What's that? I've looked it up so many, I cannot figure out what a stove shaker is. It's like a grate or something. You shake the stove with it. In my movie, it's just going to be like a huge, like an iron statue. Okay. Well, I like the kitchen angle, though. Maybe it could be a cast iron skillet. Okay. I'm not listen I'm like suddenly it's my movie too but this is all you I'm just no I mean I want to work with you okay I want to collaborate alright let's keep with I think it's your favorite thing to work with I don't know how but what about the hot dish tray that he had gotten from me next door it comes back around climbing she makes casseroles in a cast iron square that weighs 200 pounds. Right. Please return this when you're done, Phil. And don't break a bone. Oh, Phil. So I hit him with the stove, cast iron skillet. When he tried to run for help, when it was over, I ran to the attic. I was sitting on the trap door when you were pounding on it from below the night you found him. So they actually like went and were like, what's this? and then we're like, oh, we can't open it, and probably so then that means it doesn't matter. Alright. Guys, follow through. Just everyone, life lesson. Follow through. Follow through. So he, Theodore Cummings, do we have any more pictures? Steven sent him. You might not. There we go. What is it? Oh, it's a trapdoor house! Oh, yeah. This is the attic. Look at that guy's 40s hair. There's the light on the on the wire. Look at that guy's grease using Dapper Dan in his hair. Here's some, this is some pee. There's his ironing board bed over there. Man. And, wow, that's depressing. Okay. He confessed and he was convicted and sentenced to a life prison in the Colorado State Penitentiary. What if I pronounce Colorado wrong? He went in on November 18th, 1942. And he remained there for 23 years and eventually became the prison librarian. All right. I mean, he died in the prison hospital on May 16th, 1967. And the local press dubbed him the Spider-Man of Moncrief Place, which is the street he lived on. Because when Detective Fred Zarna looked into the attic, which is probably that guy with the rad hair, he said a man would have to be a spider to stand it so long up in that place there's your story everybody that was fun it was nice i cannot tell you how glad i am i don't have to follow that yeah right yeah right it was great you gotta go to those old creepy ones i know i never did the old creepy ones i'm always like here's a new one i'll bum you the fuck out because it's recent one of you are probably related to this person it's super real yeah you're gonna hate it yeah okay we're back from karen's creepy story any updates no updates on the spider-man of denver but at the end of my story i suggest that you should look into more old creepy cases we didn't have the network at that point. We couldn't have known that we would someday have a podcast with Paul Holes himself and Kate Winkler Dawson herself called Barry Bones that does literally exactly that. So cool. It's so exciting. It's almost like we've got someone else to do our homework. Yes. We paid the smart kids at school. We go out first and then we hire professionals to come and do it right. We did it a little backwards, but what are you going to do? But hey. Okay. And then I forgot about this one, the hi-fi murders. We get a hometown story about it. It's so fucking chilling. Let's listen to it. And then I have some corrections as well. So just keep that in mind while you're listening. Right. All right. Should we do a hometown murder? Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Hold on. I feel like we have to pick the person not who's raising their hand, but who everyone around them is pointing at. What's that? We should pick the person not who's raising their hand, but who all their friends are going because they're like this fucking girl. All right. Good idea. Okay. Her grandma. Karen, what about her? No, no, no. They've had enough. I'm not allowed. They've had enough time. She doesn't let me. Let's do you in the white shirt. It's just become a rule that I don't get a pick. Is Vince on the side? There he is. Oh, there's Vince. You have to go this way. This one? She said, just turn it on. I don't know. I don't see a thing. Just use the microphone the way it's supposed to be used. Vince is here. There's no thing to turn it on. I swear to gosh, there's no on switch on that thing. We are not just that. Oh, hi! The husband did it. Look at her shirt. Her shirt says the husband did it. Can I have that? You can't read. Yeah, you can't read. I have been using my college skills to cram. Uh-huh. But I failed most of the tests when I did that. But maybe I can... Just remember it. Just talk it out. You'll be fine. Wait, what's your name? My name is Megan. Hi, Megan. Bleep it, Stephen. Bleep it. Bleep it. Last name? Uh-oh. No, really. No one gets to yell at Stephen. Yeah, that's our job. Where are you from? I am from Ogden, Utah. Great. I trekked here with my cousin, Kara Elizabeth. Hey, ladies. She's been a fan from the beginning and said, you've got to listen to this podcast. Good job. Thank you. It's our thing. Thank you. We owe you $20. Between Ebola and my favorite murder, we're the weird ones in our Mormon family. You have Ebola? You have Ebola? No, we like it. We like it. The disease? Yeah, we like to read about it and then pretend like we have it. What does it do? Does it just deteriorate? It's bad shit. Ooh, I love it. Your eyes will bleed. Okay. Listen, if you survive 10 days, you're in the clear. Okay. Okay. All right, tell the story. Okay, so Ogden, Utah, this is the really big-time murder in Ogden. I'm going to brush over it because it's pretty grisly. Great. If you want to know more. You're here. We'll give you some links at the end of the show. So my mother went to high school with the survivor of the Hi-Fi murders. Oh, the Hi-Fi murders. I like it. I'm so fucked up. It is. I've never heard of this. I have written it. Hi-Fi murders. I have written it to do it. April 24th, 1974. I crammed. And to my fourth grade teacher mother, who will listen to this on a later date, I took a cookie today. Uh-oh. But that was at noon. She's fucked up. No, that was at noon. We have great video of me worried that Karen's going to yell at me. Just don't talk slow. That's all. I'm talking. Yeah, you got it. Just focus. Just focus. So 1974, we've got, I believe her name's Shelly Ainsley. She's 18 years old. She works with Stanley Walker. They are in the hi-fi shop that sells speakers, music. You know, total 1974 thing going on. It's closing time. Little 16-year-old Courtney Nasebit walks in and says, Hey, thanks for letting me park in the parking lot while I had to run some errands. He's down there talking with these guys. And that's when these three bastards come in and try to kill these people. They tie them up. They dump Drano down their ears. And mouths. Whoa, whoa, whoa. And mouths. They're down their mouths and ears. The second that it touches their mouths, they're burned. Oh, my God. And they're... Sorry, just right away? Right away. Okay. It's initially the guy that did it said that they wanted some good stuff, some speakers and things. But then as they're in there and they've tied them up, he's like, hey, wait a minute. I got something in the car. So clearly he's got an idea what he wants. Yeah, there's a little bit of pre-planning. Let's keep torturing. So, you know, your 18-year-old doesn't come home from work. Your 16-year-old doesn't come home from running errands. So, of course, their parents come to find them and see where are my children. Carol Naisbitt comes to find her 16-year-old son, goes down in the basement. She is tied, given Drano, and shot. Same thing happens to her. Yes. Then we've got Oren Walker. He wants to find his son, Stanley, who never came home from work. He comes down there. They tie him up and they kick a pin into his ears. No, I don't want this part. Into his ear, you say? Yeah. Okay. This part I don't want. Courtney. But keep going. You can't pause. Courtney's beat. Power through it. Courtney's beat. In the end, these men decide they're going to just shoot everybody. Everybody dies except for Courtney Naisbitt. Now, this is some bad shit, clearly But after weeks of investigation They find the three guys that did it They are put to death They are executed Except for the getaway driver Who was out amongst us And I've tried to Facebook the shit out of this guy But I can't find him They were in the military They were all in the military, right? They were, they all worked on Hill Air Force Base What the fuck? Which is, you know, the central part of Utah. I mean, it's, and they were stationed there. They said they needed money. Their pay sucked as military. And we do know our military needs to be supported a little bit more. Yes. Child of a serviceman. But anyway, uh, Courtney has lifelong ailments from this. Yeah. He gets married. He has children. He graduates from college. He lived a full life and he died last year, but I did think it was pretty damn amazing. He still went to high school. He still accomplished things and of course became an advocate for victims rights. Wow that's amazing. That's O-Town. Girl you went there. I'm proud of you. Oh my god. Yeah wait now take a second. Take it in. Take a second. Yeah everyone applaud. Yay. Yay. Look at her. Look at your girl. This is hard to do. It's very hard. Especially with that story. When you're high and that story, holy fuck. I need a cookie. I need this shirt. I need that shirt. Thank you so much. Thank you, cousin. You're amazing. Yes, that's how we do it. Thank you. Okay, we're back. Let's talk about some of the corrections on this hometown. Okay, just to make things clear, a correction is that Megan identified one of the victims as Shelley, but her name is actually Sherry Michelle Andley. She also said that only Courtney survived. That's not correct. Stanley's father, Oren Walker, also survived and eventually testified against the perpetrators. That part where the parents come to check on their kids is just like... The worst. Gut-wrenching. Yeah. Megan mentioned the getaway driver still being out there and living among us. That's not correct. The driver, Keith Leon Roberts, was arrested, convicted on two counts of aggravated robbery and spent several years in prison. In 1987, he was released on parole. And in 1992, he took his own life. Also, she says three men entered the shop, but two men, Dale Selby Pierre and William Andrews, were definitely inside. Both were ultimately arrested, convicted and sentenced to death. and as mentioned Keith Leon Roberts who claimed he was never inside the shop was charged with aggravated robbery it's believed there were more accomplices some of whom may have been inside the shop too but police have never been able to identify them that's just chilling um and then Megan says that Courtney passed away last year in 2016 that's not correct he actually died in 2002 and I am glad we never have to cover that case again because it's just terrible. But Megan, listen, good job. And you're basically on par with the kind of job that we were doing with our research when we were doing this and we would sit down and Google stuff. So off the top of your head. Live shows, I don't think we expect anyone to come up there and get all the dates and everything correct. That's not the point. And we yell at you if you try to take a piece of paper out. Yeah, that's right. We make it as hard as possible, but then here we'll just, you know, state it for the record. Right. Totally. Okay. So this episode was originally titled Live at the Boulder Theater. But if we were naming it today based on some fucking ridiculous ass thing we said in the episode, maybe we would call it. Well, Dear Groupon, which is what Georgia is what you thought I said. Dear Groupon. I love that. Yeah. It has to be that. It could be called In My Movie about Karen's Spider-Man. I'm done for a movie. Because that's how obsessed I am with that story. I absolutely will make that movie one day. You must. And it'll be really cheap because it's all taking place just in an attic. Right. Also, Sailor Salute, which is when I was talking about the time I saw Tommy Lee Jones and he gave me the old Sailor Salute. If you're ever in trouble, you know who to call. Tommy Lee Jones. Yeah. God. All right. Well, thanks for listening to another episode of Rewind. Let's pop back into Boulder where we say goodbye from stage. I bet the odds of finding somebody in this audience that's not high would be very, very low. Oh, yeah. Oh, sure. Very low. Yeah. These days, I bet people just get up in the morning and they're just like a boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. Our Uber driver yesterday is an amazing, like, hippie chick who probably goes to Burning Man. And we were talking about it. She works at a dispensary. And she was like, yeah, I have friends who wake up in the morning and have fucking weed butter on their toast. Yeah. And I'm just like, have toast and smoke some weed, though. No, you fucking eat it. And then it, like, comes on slow. And then all of a sudden you're, like, just walking around at work. And you're like, fuck. Don't stop smiling. Don't stop smiling. Everything's chill. Just be chill. Someone ask a question. Just say yes. sit at your desk, put on your headphones. I didn't realize I had that song in me until right now. Wow, that was gorgeous. They know. That was... They know. That's your next song. That might be. Like how to deal with being high. Can you... I did that one already. Can you... You have to write it down for me after we're done. Steven. You guys. This has been fucking awesome. This is the first weekend of our 2017 fall tour. We are kicking it off. What a great place to start. Night two. Night two. Colorado. Colorado. What a great fucking place to start this tour. Seriously. It's like, it's very touching. It's very lovely how much support we get from you guys and love. We really appreciate it and we very much want you to stay sexy. And don't get married! Bye, you guys. Thank you. Elvis, do you want a cookie? This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world. The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, we unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story? I've just been made to fit. The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapsed. What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe? Oh my God, I think she might be innocent. Listen to Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton Eckerd. In 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. But here's the thing. Bachelor fans hated him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would. That's when his life took a disturbing turn. A one-night stand would end in a courtroom. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.