EP 57: The Man Who Saved My Life, Cole Shiflet

Disclaimer. At Two Addicts in the Moron, we discuss personal stories of addiction with the intention of being educational, relatable, and inspirational. The views and experiences shared are those of individuals involved are not meant to glorify or condone any illegal or harmful behavior. This content is for educational purposes only and is not intended as professional advice. If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, we strongly encourage you seek help from a qualified professional or support service. Well, we are back. Yes, sir. Missed you. I missed you too. I know. I see you every day here. Well, for our audience, it's only been a week, right? But sometimes we stage these in a way where we go a couple weeks without doing one. So we all get a little bit itchy whenever we don't get back in the room. We're two in a week and then take a week off. Yeah. Yeah, it's just depending on my boy plays a lot of baseball and schedules and work as a full time commitment itself. How old is he? 16. Yeah. 16 and it's it's a commitment for sure. So yeah. Uh, so when we get back in the room in our room, we always we always get a little hype, a little pump after the Yankees. No, you make a story. Cubs. Yeah. All right. You can tell that story here in a little bit. Well, we're going to I want to learn about that. But uh, what is embarrassing even hearing about only he knows he played for. Oh my God. What a what a great segue and an introduction to our guest. Yeah, Mr. Cole Schifflet. Everybody thank you. Thank you for coming by brother. Man, I've heard a lot about you and you've been a guest name that has popped up several times. And I'm glad we could finally get it worked out where you're sitting on the chair, brother. Yeah, man. I always get happy when I see whoever your guest is and it's been a few of them, people that I know really well. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Well, uh, well, welcome to the family, dude. Welcome to the brick walls of my brother. So where did the name come from? I was curious. Well, it couldn't be a we were going to what? Well, we were going to use some different ones. Man, we couldn't use some words because we would get canceled before like moron was we were going to use other words that and our time was okay to use. So we can't use these days. There's I'm a normie. I'm even more intrigued. I'm a normie. I can drink and be okay. I think I told you. I tried GHB a couple of times, multiple other drugs. Just nothing ever stuck with me. I just never really liked it. So, so I guess you're the moron. I'm the moron in this, right? Like I don't understand. I'm getting better at it now after doing this, but, um, watching him struggle. I had the same questions that probably a lot of his family members, a lot of people that loved them were around him. Why don't you just fucking stop? You know, like, um, but. We have similar sense of humors. We thought it'd be a good thing to kind of bring you very crude. Uh, we thought it'd be a good idea to talk about addiction and recovery from both of the standpoints, right? Cause you either are an addict or you love someone who is, but either way. If enough time passes, even if you're not in recovery or in addiction, you're going to be affected by it in some form. Some degree of it. Yeah. Some, some degree, right? So I'm in here to be the ignorant, the blissful ignorant guy asking the questions of. Well, you'll do a lot more than, uh, than most. Yeah. Do a shit like this. Well, there used to be three of us. So it was two addicts moron and now it's one addict moron and now you're the second one. Two addicts. Yeah. Two addicts and moron. So, so we kept it rolling that way. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. All of our guests is the other addict these days. Yeah. So everybody in recovery that you had on just about here. Well, we had the director on Andrew Shabay from Sean's movie, the one that directed Sean's movie. Yeah. I'm Livingston or Sean Livingston from I am redemption. He was one of our guests and we had the director of that movie on, which isn't an addict. He's not an addict or a fucking moron. Like if you're making movies like that, like, so we'll probably branch out a little bit, but. I think outside of him, everybody else has been in addiction and in recovery. We're going to have my therapist on here soon. She needs to come on. Yeah. Talk about that. The psychological part of where her name is Evelyn. I don't know her last name. I know her as ET. Yeah. It last thing starts with the T. So we go, we call her ET, but get her to put Joey under a trance during the I'd be in. Fucking. But yes. Maybe a mar or something like that. Yeah. She she does hypnosis hypnosis. Yeah. So maybe I can get her to hypnotize me. Should anything. The better yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. I'll give it a shot. But but thanks for coming by, brother. Yeah. Thanks for having me. And so it's been a Sunday. Yeah, man. How long have you been in recovery? My sober date is July 25th of 2006. Okay, man. That's big. That's a long fucking time. So yeah, dude, we're we're coming up on 19. Yeah. Well, look, we'll just call it coming up on 20 because you're closer to that than the other side. So I'm ever seeing my mentor pick up a 20 year chip and you know, I couldn't wrap my mind around like that is so long. Yeah. And so it's surreal kind of being right there on the cusp of it yourself. You're like, because I mean, I've now been sober longer than I was when I was getting fucked up. Yeah. And so it's it's weird. It's gone by in a blink and so much has happened since July 25th of 2006. Yeah, man. Well, uh, so you were in the fight for a long time. What was your DOC? Well, GHB was my favorite. Yeah. But it was primarily, you know, like alcohol and cocaine. I couldn't imagine doing one without the other. Mm hmm. I got started late. Um, but immediately kind of went from zero to a hundred. I was I never, I was not, you know, brought up in a family with alcohol or addiction issues and all that. There was distant family like uncles and all that shit that, you know, had some issues with it, but it was just never a thing. So I didn't start drinking until I was 16 and only started that because I needed, like, I really craved a social life, you know, because I was just kind of a loner. I wanted friends, but I didn't. Uh, I wasn't good at talking to people and all that. So, you know, I was the dude that was sitting by themselves, you know, at the lunch table and I should it's hard, you know, when you're at that age, you know, and all you want to do is like be cool and you're the furthest thing from it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, then I kind of fell into a group of friends and the first night that I ever drank, you know, it was, I can't remember what the name of the wine coolers were, but they came in, you know, four pack bottles and I drank all four of them in blacked out drunk next day, you know, woke up with my first hangover error ever and it was intense, but you know, what was kind of true to form on it was I was just like, I can't wait to do that again. Yeah. Because people the next day, you know, at school are like, man, you were crazy. That was awesome. Yeah. So you're finally just kind of getting this like, wow, you know, there's, there's something to it. And so then, um, it's hard to drink every day when you're in high school, you know, it was a, it was a weekend. Yeah. But we started off as that. I was like, okay, this is great. So I bet smoking weed is great. I bet ecstasy is great. That, that, that, that, that, and before I knew it, like it's crazy now. Like I have a 16 and 17 year old and when I was either 18 or 19, you know, I'd already shot heroin, I'd already smoked crack. No, that's just like looking back like it. My kids, I'm like way too young to be doing that, that dumb shit. Yeah. And but everything kind of revolved around social circles and you know, and who we hung out with and you know, I worked downtown for a good bit and pretty much everything was in this hunt to try to just be as cool as possible. Yeah. I look back now and I'm like, man, what a douchebag. Yeah. It was just like the best thing, you know, from cool, but it felt like it at a time, but I had a problem with it from the jump. Yeah. You know, I had a lot of good times on it, but the party was over by the time I was about 23, 24. That's when legal consequences kept adding up, you know, just really started to struggle with depression from it. And I knew that, you know, it had its fangs in me pretty deep, but I didn't know anything really about addiction despite being rehab because it was always mandated or parents wants you there. You know, it was, it was never voluntary, right? You know, and all that. And so yeah, the habit was really bad, but the thing that really twisted me up the most was I was watching my mind, you know, it was like, why can't I just leave this stuff alone? And like how the book talks about being restless, irritable and discontent. I started just feeling that more and more and more. And so I really started to wonder what was wrong with me mentally. Yeah. And all I knew was that, Hey, this is getting worse as time goes on. And eventually, you know, you start having suicidal ideations and whatnot because the pain kind of supersedes your, your will to live. It's not that you want to kill yourself. It's just like, this is already, you know, bad enough. And I know based on my experience, it's just going to continue to get worse. Yeah. And so they were always two different things in my mind. It's like, yes, I have a problem with this, but my mind seems to be a lot more, you know, of the problem. Of course, come to find out when I really started learning about recovery, the steps and all that. Of course, they're tightly interwoven on it. Yeah. That's the thing, especially when we were growing up, like we didn't hear about fucking addiction. Like I was watching a movie the other day or yesterday. It was from 1994. And in there, one of the actors was like, well, you know, you went to drug and alcohol therapy, right? Or you went to a rehab facility and she's like, it's a treatment facility. And she was like embarrassed and fucking because it was something that people didn't do back then. Yeah, it was almost taboo. Yeah. Like if you went like you, it was like you said, either the judge sent you or fucking someone sent you. It wasn't that you went on your own. And, um, and it was, it's definitely, and it's nothing people talked about. Like it was embarrassing. Yeah. Right. It's like, oh yeah, my son is in rehab. Like you hear that so much now. Well, back then it was like, oh, shit. Like you parents didn't even want to say that. I think it still is. You think I do. Um, it could be, you know, it's just it's tough when you're been in recovery and surrounded by treatment for so long, especially when it was part of like your work, it very well may be, but I'm just so detached from, right? You know, how normal people kind of view things just because it's. Second nature for you. You know, it's just my life and has been for a long time. Well, I think the open forums and discussion is becoming better about it, right, which is going to make it better. We're doing a podcast on it, right? But I've, I mean, I have a family member had zero idea that he was struggling with alcohol and, um, I can only imagine that it had something to do with the parents with his parents being a little embarrassed about it. Right. And, um, I think that probably just still goes on today. I mean, I, I see a lot of people like you guys. Absolutely does. Right. Without, without a doubt, right? I do agree that like the stigma is not what it once was. I don't, I don't think and I don't think it's just because I'm inundated and you know, the not normal, you know, crowd like when it comes to treatment and recovery and all that, but I think the opioid epidemic, you know, really opened up a lot of people's eyes to it. And then of course, with the introduction of fentanyl and, uh, you know, the lives that have been lost and all that, I do think it's more of an issue that's, uh, up close to people than, than it once was. But I think they're absolutely still is that shame, you know, like element to where, you know, you have these families and they're so sheltered from it. And you got your all star child and, you know, it could never, you know, be their reality and God forbid, you know, anybody know, you know, if you have problems within your family, especially when they're, you know, in that regard, so it is still looked down upon. I think. Yeah. Without a doubt. For sure. Did you see a lot of that when you, so you ran solstice, right? And you, did you, you pretty much own solstice, right? That was, well, you don't own a nonprofit. Okay. You know, but. How long, how long did you run solstice? You know, pericy was part of the formation of that place. Um, uh, did he talk about that? He did. He was on. He talked about that a little bit on it. And so it, it didn't last long with me, Frank and another friend of ours named Eric. Um, it probably only lasted about three months before it blew the fuck up. And Frankie and Eric were gone and I had to figure out a way to make it stay in existence. The only way to do that was to turn it to a nonprofit. So we could immediately get some cash flow in just to, you know, be sustained. But with Eric and Frank, you know, out of the picture, then it was just me and me and my wife brought her into it, you know, also. So, um, yeah, we, we ran the place, you know, from a governing standpoint. Yeah. So for people that don't know, that's the rehab that I went to. The solstice and I tell people all the time, like that place saved my life. Like it was, it was the perfect rehab for me to go to. Um, you know, I'd never been anywhere before. That's my first one. Yeah. But I was also in a different place in my life where I know most people go to many rehabs when I went, I knew that I had to stop. I was going to lose my daughter. And I knew that it was going to be really hard, but I had it. I had the mindset that I was done with using. You were brought to your knees. Yeah. I was definitely my rock bottom, you know, who is your, who is the common link between you and solstice Brody? So Brody Lafitte knew, um, Mike, uh, no, no, no, no, um, no, no, no, hold on. New York, Mike, what's his name? Uh, Tassio. Tassio. And then Tassio used to shoot dope together. And, uh, so Brody, well, it worked with us and Brody knew about solstice. And I came into work one day and he was like, Hey, like, I was already like 13 days sober. And I was getting to that point. I could always get like a week or two sober, but once that depression start kicking in, that was where I would always go back to, I got to use because I can't handle what my, what my mind is going through. And, um, but Brody knew Tassio and he's like, you know what? You need to go to rehab and now I'm going to pay for it. So he called Tassio. Y'all gave me a partial scholarship and then he paid the rest. And that's how I got to solstice. That's crazy. Cause that place wasn't, um, in its infancy, the place was never meant for like people that were first timers in rehab because it was, I'd worked in a lot of treatment centers, you know, prior to that. And when I started working on admissions, there was a phone call that is so common and that is, I don't need to go back to treatment. I just need to get to a safe place. Um, and, and how many people, the amount of calls that people say that is mind boggling. And so the idea was just to create a place that was for the retreads that have been there, done that to where you have a good idea about the steps and everything else, but either you can't afford to go back to rehab or if you just don't want to, because when, when going to get help becomes a roadblock and to you getting better, that's not good. You know, especially when the stakes are so high these days because of the opioid epidemic and fentanyl. And so it was just meant to be a retreat place where people can be in a safe environment, you know, around people in recovery and you know, always wanted to be a place that was enjoyable to do it. Yeah. Cause rehab is pretty much not enjoyable. Um, you can look in hindsight, you can look back and you can be like, I had some good times. I thought you loved it. You know, but, and that was the idea was just like, Hey, we won't basically, we won't guys that, you know, when they get out of there until they're like, I feel great and I just had a bad ass time. Yeah. That was the niche, you know, and we were very adamant about the fact that we didn't advertise ourselves as a treatment center because when you talk about treatment centers, um, you know, you're talking about clinical services and all these other things because you can actually get in trouble from DHS and doing that. Yeah. Um, so we were a retreat center. Yeah. But it, we obviously had a lot of people that had never been in any kind of rehab because most of the time it was because they didn't have the resources available or the insurance. And so we wanted to be able to, to help them. But yeah, ideally our target audience was all, was always people like myself that have been to yeah. And press Mike Presley had told Brody, he's like, you know, we normally don't first timers normally don't come here. And Brody was like, trust me, he's a worse boy. He belongs over there. So yeah, that's how they got me in there. I went the next day and it was, um, I remember when I got there, was that like 2018? Now that was 20. What's my January, 20, January 1st, 2022 is when I got sober. So I went January 13th, 2022. It's weird. Like in my mind, I still think that we shut that thing down in 2020, but no, it was a 2022. Yeah. It was later in, it was later in the year because, um, but yeah, when I went there, I remember I was like 30 days. I didn't want to go. It's like 30. So I hadn't, I'm the back of my notepad. I had 30 days wrote out and I was just marking the days down. And I remember after like day three, I stopped marking them because I just enjoyed being there. Like I was like, well, I'm going to be here. I'm not even going to mark in the days down anymore. And it was like the perfect, it was, to me, it was a perfect place for something to go to. And we believed in, in terms of like people that had never been in a rehab, we believe that it could be very beneficial because we kind of believed in the core principles of it, which is, you know, we're going to work the steps. We're going to have that recovery aspect, but we very much believed in the value of the fellowship. Personally, I don't think the fellowship of, you know, recovery is given nearly enough credit as it is. Um, but it's, if you're with people that you enjoy being around, like your boys and all that, and then you throw in the fact that like y'all are just laughing, cutting it up and just, you know, like guy humor, just, you know, cutting each other's balls off and all that, then it just makes it to where it's so much more easy to do. Well, then there's zero judgment. Yeah. I mean, if it's something that sucks, if you're like, man, you're not going to do it, you know, it's like, it just ain't happening. Maybe do it for a little bit, but you know, eventually I'm like, you know, fuck this. There's really no reward to it. And you start to kind of miss out on, you can forget about all the bad shit and you can kind of miss out on that, on that other stuff. And so we really want to put a high premium on that enjoyment aspect of it. Yeah. I would kind of always like draw it up to, you know, that, uh, that analogy of you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it. So I think the key to that is, is how do you get a horse to drink the water? You make it something that he wants to drink, you know, and so make recovery, something to where it's coveted as opposed to, you know, the, and I want nothing to do with that. Well, to your point, it's like the fellowship. And in my view is kind of everything because you just said it, you're 16 years old, you're sitting at a table alone, right? That's an isolation. That's getting, what are you having to do to get pulled into those, to those crews that you want to be a part of, to be the cool guy, right? And that's incredibly negative. And that's what puts a lot of people into addiction. Yeah. Right. Now the adverse of that is kind of what you're saying, that fellowship part of it, which I've never been around a community of people that are so together and maybe never met each other, but because you're here with me, you are one of me. And we are in this together, right? I've, I've never seen it. I've never seen anything like it. There's a great example of it just coincidentally. So I knew I was cutting it kind of close on time, getting to here at five, but I gave myself an extra five minutes because I was going to stop at summer moon to get a coffee. Yeah. So I always go to the app and recent orders order again. That way it's there. You know, I can just pick it up and go. And so I park and on the way in, there's this lady sitting at a two top table. She's by herself and she's got one of those big giant big books, you know, big print and she's also got an awakenings workbook with it, which in the awakenings workbook is this crazy detailed breakdown, everything in the big book and all that. And I saw it on the way in, I was like, I would bet a lot that that's a big book and awakenings packet. And then on the way out, because her, her back was to the door, I saw it again. And I just passed by, I was like, great book, great work, great workbook. She was like, you know about this. I was like, yeah, very much. I introduced myself. She introduced herself and we talked for a couple of minutes and it was just like, I have no idea what she does, anything about her story, but there was immediately just this like connection in there. And we talked like we'd known each other for a long time. The only thing that, that I think is kind of like, um, that fellowship aspect of people in recovery, I would think would be vets, you know, right? Where it's just like, I bet that's a great, that's a great. It's a great analogy. I bet that, you know, vets, they could, you know, as soon as they meet another vet, especially if they're in the same division, you know, the lingo changes like everything about it. And you're very comfortable talking about like some really nasty shit that, you know, you would not otherwise be talking about with people that hadn't been there and all that. And it's very, that's very much the case when it comes to recovery. This is like immediately, it's just like, you can remove all filters. Yeah. You know, and, you know, that person gets you, you get them and vice versus, and then you start off at a, at a wonderful place that could otherwise take years to bypass all the bullshit, you know, small talk to where you get to know somebody intimately. That's a great example. Yeah. It's a great example. And even for someone like myself now, who's been doing this for a little while, I'm the normie of the crew, right? Uh, and, um, uh, an example from just this last weekend, I, I, I, I have an addiction and it's baseball cards. I buy baseball cards like fucking crazy. Like it's a problem. So I go, I stop off at the, at the card shop and there's a kid in there. And I was like, you know what, I'm going to buy this kid some cards. I just was going to do it. I was like, uh, pointed him out and identified him. And then I see his mom and she point, she's like podcast or I brought up the podcast or she goes, what's it about? I go, let's addiction and recovery. And she was like, well, well, I'm X amount of years in. And then I've heard of your podcast. I've had friends that are, that have been on the podcast and she just immediately like started opening up to me and she didn't know if I was a moron or the attic. Right. So she was just like, how long have you been in? I was like, not my deal, but she just, she kept talking and talking and talking. It was a really cool moment to be like led in on that where she felt judgment free. She could just open up and talk about it. So, and that kind of goes back to what you were talking about, um, in terms of it is such a common issue to where people, whether if you're, you know, an addict, alcoholic, you know, or not, but because it has affected pretty much every family, you know, in some way to when, you know, you're talking about it, you already have a common link, even though you're not in recovery, but, but she is, but because of what you do, you know, your knowledge base of it and doing something like this, you could talk to that person forever. So you want to hear something crazy. I'm not trying to interrupt you, but this is how small this world is. We went fellowship after a meeting. We went to heroin's anonymous on a Friday night, dark side of the spoon. We went played pickleball afterwards because that's what we do to fellowship. The girl that you're talking about her sponsor was at the pickleball. Yeah. And she said, more on just met my mentor and my sponsor today. And she's coming on your podcast. No, she's hadn't committed yet. I asked her to after she had it. You could tell it was one heck of a story there. And I just kind of brought it up. I was like, well, would you like to come on? And she was like, Oh no. So yeah, I met her, I met her sponsor and she's like, I think my sponsor is coming on your podcast. Yeah, we got some work to do on her, but I think, I think it'll end up happening. But to that point, though, before Mike, you know, me before Mike, I don't know that I would have been able to have that same interaction with that person. You know, could have had the same intention of buying the kid, the cards and all of that, but I should, yeah, if it got brought up in some way or some form, I might have been like, Oh, sorry to hear about that. You know what I mean? So again, it's like being open minded, being upfront. The shame doesn't need to be there. It's part of your story, part of what got you here today. And just fucking fellowship, right? Like, it's pretty cool because people like yourself, you know, don't identify as an addict alcoholic, but because of this, like you're accepted in the crew. Yeah. Yeah. That's, and Sean, Sean Livingston tells me that all the time. He's like, Yeah, dude, you're one of us, man. He's like, there ain't shit we're going to tell you that's going to offend you or, or take you back. And that's, that's exactly what people mean. You know, when, you know, they're talking about, you know, someone that's a normal person, you're like, yeah, you know, he's one of us. And it just is that, you know, kind of cutthroat since a few just, you know, like fucked off, kind of smoked upstairs a little bit. And it's a compliment. Like, it's like that dude's cool as fuck. Yeah. Like that guy gets it. Yeah. Gets it. So what got you sober? Like what, what was the steps that got you into that brought you to your knees? The, the mic moment going to solstice type of thing. It was kind of what I touched on. It was, um, well, for one, for about the previous year, um, from, you know, a year before I got sober, for the first time since I was 17, I wasn't on any kind of legal papers or anything like that. So I had no, you know, reason legally, you know, to do it, but I entered to that depressive state to where, you know, it was just time to, it was time to go. Yeah. And I was never going to do that because, you know, my mom, my dad, my brother, you know, just had no desire to put them through that. But again, eventually my pain superseded it. And, you know, I was crying a lot for days because I didn't want to do it, but I couldn't be in that much, you know, pain because I had enough experience by this point in terms of, you know, living in that disease to where, you know, and you talked about a mic, it was just like, you know, hey, whether if I was high or not, I was actually, you know, life was easier when I was high in terms of like internally, but once, you know, the alcohol or drugs was removed. I mean, I was just a basket case. You know, I mean, it was just painful, you know. So of course, you know, I'm going to self medicate that. And so I was having suicidal ideations. I'd already been in treatment a whole lot of times and I told my parents, you know, that, you know, I would never ask them for anything kind of again, because you know, they spent a lot of money on, you know, getting my ass to rehab and all that, but I called my mom and she wanted to meet me at a coffee shop in the mall. And I gave her all the, uh, the cracking code that I had in my pocket. And I was like, I was like, I'm in bad shape. And I, I need help. It was the first time that I ever asked for help for myself. It was the first time that I ever wanted to go to rehab for myself. Right. And I think that's a huge deal. You know, it's like, I really don't know how you make someone do something that they absolutely don't want, don't want to do. Yeah. You know, I think you got to have a lot of skin in the game to do it. And so, and that, that's also when you talk to families a lot, that is a question that comes up, which was like, Hey, what was different for you this time around? And yeah, there were a lot of things different, but my, my stock answer is, is that I wanted it more than anything and I wanted it for myself. And so I entered into treatment the last time and that's where I met one. Frankie Parisi. And what's crazy about also was that, you know, I'm born and raised in Austin. And I winded up getting sober the last place you would think I got sober, you know, in Austin, in my hometown, because, you know, here in Austin, I had, I had all my friends, I knew all the wrong people. And so it was so hard previously when I was trying to get sober every once in a while, go in AA, you know, I'd be able to put like a month or so together. Um, but I didn't know anybody in the rooms and I didn't make any effort to get to know anybody, you know, either. It was so easy to fall back in, you know, the crowd. But because I went to rehab here in town and in there, the rehab center that, that I went to is called Mark Houston recovery. It had just opened up like I was the fourth client there. You know, Frankie was the third, second or whatever, you know, he was there. And the guy that ran the place who I'd known for a long time, his name was Mark Houston. And he's a, he's a big deal in the AA world. Um, you know, very sought after speaker, best teacher in terms of, you know, the big book that I've ever met, but you know, without question, he lived in the house with us. And so we just had this tight group, you know, we had a lot of, a lot of fun. When I got done with my 90 days there, Mark came up to me. He's like, Hey, we're growing in census. How would you like a job as a, as a tech working here? And I was just like, you want to pay me nine bucks an hour to drive a van and hang out, you know, with these dudes? You know, I like, I was like, I'm in. Yeah. And so for the first time in my life, I, I felt proud to tell people what I was doing, cause I was always ashamed to tell people, you know, what I was doing in the past, which is, Hey, I had no higher education whatsoever. And, you know, I was, I worked at a car wash, you know, and did mobile detailing and all that. But from a ego kind of perspective, when I would say, you know, especially cause I was 30 years old, when you say like I'm working at a car wash, to me, it just felt embarrassing, like, like low, you know, right, which is stupid, you know, but again, the ego's kind of real. But when I had that job, even though I wasn't making shit, you know, right, I felt such pride and I work at a treatment center. Yeah. You know, and so in doing that, when you work in treatment, you get to know a whole lot of people. And then my girlfriend, my now wife, when I was maybe six months sober, she got pregnant, you know, with our, with our first kid. And so I'm loving what I'm doing for work, but now I got a kid on the way. And I did not want to be that dad, you know, and so the stakes got a lot higher. And for me, it was a really good thing because all it did was further push me into make sure that I did what I needed to do, you know, in terms of making sure that I stay okay. But man, I mean, I was set up in a real good place because I was working at a treatment center. Everybody that I knew in recovering, you know, was the people that I hung around with my work was surrounded in recovery. So it was always right there on the forefront. But I was still so scared because all I knew was that I was a chronic relapser. Yeah, I was like, I'm going to do this for a while, but I'm going to fuck it up. It's a matter of time before I fuck this up. And that really scared me based on my experience because I even had a year and a half sober at one point, but for 13 months of it, you know, I was institutionalized. Yeah. And so, you know, I, it was scary, but I did what I had to do to take care of myself. And then not long after that, out of being, you know, she's pregnant again with our other kid. Yeah. And, you know, we married, we're still married. You know, we've been together since we were 15 years old, you know, a long time. And it was just like the stars lined up, you know, for me. So I was able to make a career out of working in recovery. It was very good to me and, uh, and I loved it, but everything was kind of different. It was, I wanted to do it for myself. And I did things that I'd never did before in recovery in terms of like the immense process. When I get sober prior to that, I was able to make kind of the chicken shit amends like mom, dad, you know, and the ones that are like one degree away from me, you know, easy ones, but I would never make these tough ones, you know, or ones that, you know, I don't know. I just didn't have that willingness, but I engaged in that process in terms of, you know, the book talks about cleaning up the wreckage of your past. And it takes a long time to do that. Yeah. Um, but I did it and I stayed very consistent in the service work aspect in terms of like going to hospitals, sharing the stories, you know, to go to those H and I meetings. Um, so when people talk about like, you know, you hear it a lot when they're like, if they're picking up a chip for a, for a milestone, you know, you commonly hear like I had nothing to do with it. It was all God. And I get what they're saying, but in my mind, I'm like, no man, I was like, you have to do your part. I'm for sure. Recovery is absolutely earned. Yeah. You have to do it. Then he does the rest. You know, it's just like going to the gym, you know, it's like, you have to, there's no getting around it really. You got to put in the time and the effort to, you know, to do it. You know, you earn it. And I very much think that it's true. Yeah. Recovery. So I did what I had to do, you know, to get it. Yeah. And I didn't feel comfortable until in terms of like sort of to lose this fear of I was going to relapse until I was probably about two years sober. And that's when, you know, I was like, you know what, you know, if I just keep doing, you know, what has got me this far, I might just make it. Yeah. I just might be all right. And then time just went by real fast before you know it, you know, it's, you got five years sober. That was a big one for me. 10 years was a big one. You know, and, and there, there are all big to where it's just like, I can't believe this because all you want to, at least all, all I wanted when I was messed up was like, I just want a normal, boring life, you know, to where I'm just not stricken by this mental pain and dealing with all the shit that I did. But it was such a distant reality. You know, it was a dream of a wife, kids, career, anything like that. It was just never going to happen. Being happy. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, then all of a sudden you find yourself to where it's like, you know, you feel like you're in a dream. It's like, how, how did this happen? How did those dreams become a reality? And when I really think about it, even to like this day, I can get choked up. Yeah. You know, I have these moments to wear because I'm still in my head, you know, all day, you know, just about one thing or the other to where I wish I was present more than I am. But when you have those moments of like, you're watching your kids do something, you know, you're, you're watching your kid compete, you know, with my daughter, recently it's like watching her kind of really get invested in a relationship. And you're just really just floored. You're just like, this is, this is incredible. And I owe it all to. Recovery for sure. Without a doubt, you know, everything falls under, under that, you know, without that piece, you know, who knows where I'd be today. It wouldn't be pretty if at all. Well, dude, that's awesome. I mean, having 20 years in, having that two year, I guess itch, you know, I mean, it seems like kind of normal for a lot of people. They, they start getting that, that feeling of like, all right, what now? And then things just kind of start falling into place. You know, and embracing that fellowship, that process, using the people around you always seems to, to get them out of it. You know, I get again, the stakes these days are a lot different than they were when I got sober because fentanyl wasn't around. Who, you know, like, doing heroin was ungodly taboo. You know, crazy back then. It was just like, you can do all the coke in the world and all that, but that's yet, you know, I was the same way. That's a problem. When someone's shooting heroin, I'm like, you're terrible. Yeah, you're like, yeah. As you're pulling out your name, I spoke in my math career, you know, of it. And of course there is no difference, but in your mind it is, but I mean, it was just, it was a non, it was a non issue, you know, and doing it. And so yeah. And we know too many people that have passed away, you know, from this. And back when, like I got sober and before that, it was very rare that someone died, you know, if they did, it was most of the time it was from, you know, a car wreck, you know, like me and Lucas lost one of our closest friends in 98. And another good friend was in the car with them. He still talks about him all the time. Oh dude, it was terrible. Um, you know, just hauling ass on a road actually right there by solstice. And what the stink of it was is, you know, Clint, right? Jester. Sure. So his girlfriend's sister was having a black tie wedding at Barton Creek Hotel. And so you had to wear a tuxedo. You had to go and Brandon and our buddy Mark were supposed to be there with this, but they didn't get their tuxedo in time. And I remember that night because the fog was crazy and Brandon had a Mustang that was way too fast, you know, for his own good. And they were coming back from what was then Southwest and now it's Texas state. They were coming back and they were driving like morons down Ranch Road 12, which is a nasty road. They lost control and they hit a tree going like a buck 30. You know, and it, they were supposed to be there with us, you know, that night. Yeah. That was the first time that I really, you know, had to deal with kind of loss. And his, his mom and her husband are just two of my, my favorite people. Um, the mom wanted us to see Brandon and open casket. Um, and that was brutal because the only way that I could recognize them was by his eyebrows. Oh, the only way the family was able to identify their son Mark was by his feet in his calves, you know, and so, but that's how someone would die back then. You know, now the people that, you know, that we know that we have lost is just it is, when they say epidemic, I mean, it really is an epidemic. So yeah, the stakes are a lot higher and I get real worried when people are coming in recovery because you can be on fire, you know, for a little bit, but eventually, you know, you kind of settle into life, life happens and you start dealing with some life shit. And I've heard it talked about to where they say it's called like the second surrender to where, you know, like around five to 10 years sober, you can start to go loony tunes, you know, to when you really are faced again with, you know, some, you know, kind of mental demons to where it gets real hard. And you have to be able to sustain, you know, those hard times and it's, it's scary because it can go on for, for a long time. And so from the outside, having kind of been there, it's getting sober is hard enough, you know, and if you can reach that first year, that's a huge one. But you also know you're like, man, you know, you still got, you know, the ups and downs that are unavoidable with life. And it's, you know, can you stay consistent and do these things because there is no, nothing you can do to keep the bottom from falling out. It's going to happen in one way, you know, or another, but can you do what you need to do to sustain that until you get on the other side of it? How hard is it for, this would be a question for both of you, but like to fight the complacency of being strong in your recovery. Like what I mean is, like you just said, right? Like you, five, 10 years, you can start to feel loony tunes. Do you think that comes from being like, Oh, I'm good. I've got five years in now. I've managed probably some ups and downs in that five years. I'm just good and you're complacent and then you stop kind of, I don't know. It's a good question. Possibly. Um, Mark again, going back to Mark Houston, who this guy practiced what he preached, you know, he was 20 some on your Stober and he was still say very disciplined in terms of his recovery kind of practices, but he did start to get a little lax and then when he was 10 years sober, he went full on bonkers. You know, and what it did was, you know, this is where the kind of the words second surrender came in. It got him to where it became less about the, the motions of recovery and pushed him more into like, Hey, I got to seek God, you know, on this to find this contentment that is completely escaped me, you know, somehow. And so I do think that's a big piece of it. I also just think that it's unavoidable because it's for anybody in this room. Life is going to happen. It's going to be great. And it's going to be freaking brutal. Yeah. It can happen like that, you know, whether it fits by an event or just because you, you know, start to lose your head a little bit. Yeah. I have a Matthew, one of our favorite viewers. He, he messaged me today and he asked me kind of a similar question. He said, what do you do when like the depression kicks in? Right. Uh, because I used to always think like, man, if I can just get sober, life's going to be so much better. Yeah. Right. And that's definitely like it is until shit starts happening. And then you realize shit, shit's still going to happen. Right. But now I only can, I've always dealt with it before where I'm just going to get high, well, now I can't get high. So now I got to like really buckle down and deal with it. So what I told him was, I know I'm a little over three years sober. And on my worst days, I know like, and I tell you at work all the time, I need to catch a meeting tonight. Like I can feel I'm not spiritually there. And I need to catch a meeting or I need to go talk to God or I need to talk to Jesus and they talk to somebody. Um, and that's what I always do is I wasn't a meeting Friday night and this guy said something that made so much sense. He said, you know, there's so many miracles that God puts in our place, but we don't see them because we're not looking for them. Right. And he said, uh, he made an analogy and it was amazing. He said, if, if I asked you on the way from your house to this meeting tonight, how many red cars did you see on the way here? You'd say, fuck, I don't know. But if I said, Hey, when you leave the meeting on your way home, count up, how many red cars you see, and then text me when you get there and tell me, you'll be able to tell me exactly how many red cars, cause you're actually looking for them. Yeah. He said, so when I'm not looking for the miracles God puts in front of me, I don't see them, but if I just keep my eyes open for them, I can find them. I can find them in every situation. Even the bad situations, I can find them. And that's what I would say is I, I think when I start getting away from my fellowship and my program and like just being grateful. And, and when I start not talking to God as much, I think I can definitely start falling in that little trap to where I know, like, man, I'm not spiritually fit right now. I need to go, I need to go get spiritually fit. That's one thing that really bothers me about myself is to when I can feel bad about myself or feel like, you know, have these days or, you know, where I'm feeling like the victim, because if you look at my life externally, you know, it's a freaking joke. Okay. I got a wife that I'm crazy about. I got two awesome kids, you know, got a house, got cars. It's just like, you know, it doesn't get much sweeter, but I can still, you know, at times, you know, be like, Oh, God, you know, just like, you know, it's not enough. It's not enough. It's not enough. And I'm aware of that kind of internal dialogue. And it drives me crazy. Cause it's just like, I know what a bad day is. Yeah. This ain't it. Yeah. You know, it's, that's one of the good things that comes from, uh, like recovery and doing the step works is, is you have a lot of awareness, you know, on things. Like one of the best things that like recovery, one of the tools of recovery that has served me so well is like the fourth column inventory work in terms of I don't like the way it feels when I can blame somebody else for any situation. For some reason I can take it a lot better when I'm looking at what part I had to play in it. And sometimes I didn't have a part in it. And sometimes it's just like, Hey, who am I to judge this person based on the things that I did. I'm, and I'm able to kind of like diffuse it. And so I had this awareness when I fall into those spots of poor me, poor me, and it genuinely bothers me, you know, cause I'm just like you entitled selfish little shit. Yeah. You know, my fiance, the other day, she told me kind of the same thing, what you were just saying, she, uh, destiny was like, you know, I don't know why sometimes you're in such a shitty mood and you have such an amazing life. And I had to sit there and I had to say, you know what, why am I fucking angry? Sometimes like, she's right. Like I could, the worst thing that can happen to me in a day, I can't even tell you these days. I could tell you three and a half years ago, what the worst thing that can happen to me quickly. And I could tell you probably 20 of those things that can happen. Boom, boom, bang, bang, bang. But today it's like, what's the worst thing that would happen? I don't know. It's, it's not nothing bad, nothing I can't handle, you know, unless I lose a relative or something, right? Sure. But that's something that I've went through that during my recovery and I know I can get through that too. Right. And that's what I think things get. You gain confidence the longer that you've been sober because, you know, you've had to test your metal, you know, in terms of like dealing with life stuff. And once you get through the hard times and then more of those hard times, then you start to believe, you know, and yourself a little bit of like, you know what, you know, the shoe is going to drop, you know, sooner or later, it's going to happen again, you know, but it's going to suck, but I know I can get through it too. You know, but I had to, I had to earn that confidence in terms of I had to be in the ring, right? You know, who going through it? It's scary too. When you, because you know they're coming. And it's like, fuck, how am I going to handle that? I call them cookie jar memories. I like it. It's little memories that I can go back and pull out of my little cookie jar and say, well, I've been here before. I've done this before. I've had to go through this before. Right. And I can get through it again. Yeah. As soon as like, I can turn my focus into more of a gratitude thing. Yeah. Just the smallest things like I love when my kids call me dad. Yeah. Just those little things. Yeah. It was like, no, that's a, that's a great fucking, that's a great thing to think about. I just don't want to take, I get mad when I take those things for granted. Right. You know, and again, I just want to kick my own ass sometimes because again, it was all such a distant dream. You know, at one point I got these kids and they're like, Hey, dad, you want to watch land man tonight? I'm like, yeah. I'm in because when I leave here, that's what me and my son are going to do. Cause you know, like, even though I've already seen it, he started watching it. And so, you know, before I left, you know, he was like, Hey, episode of land man tonight. I'm like, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Man. I need to, I need to get even like presently. I need to get more in gratitude. And this is one of the cool things about like just talking about things, you know, like with you guys, it's, it's got goosebumps. Me too. I'm reminding myself of all the things that I should be grateful for. And I need to shift my focus more on it because like right now, like we're, we're going through it kind of financially because, you know, I'm a roofing contractor now, which in itself is crazy. He's right. I never thought that this would happen, but I made a conscious choice to get away from recovery after doing it for a while. And, you know, the, the money's good when it's, when it's good, but, you know, when it's not storming and all that, you know, it gets, you know, pretty lean. And so when it gets lean, I get stressed. And one of the best things, you know, it's just like talking to you guys. Yes, I have some life stresses going on, which again, everybody goes through, you know, it's unavoidable. But if I focus on things like my wife and my, my kids, you know, and the reality, you know, the volume of that stuff gets so turned down. Yeah. Yeah. So just in talking about it, it's raised my awareness more of again, I'm the luckiest fuck alive. Yeah. Yeah. The cool thing about it is, is that because again, like when I, before I got sober, I would have traded my life for anybody else's in the world because I was in that much pain, which is like, I don't care anybody, but mine. And when you get to a place to where the opposite is true, it's like, I wouldn't trade my life for, for anybody. It's profound. That's a profound thing. Yeah. And so I need to have better awareness of it because if you were talking about, you can get complacent. Yeah. You know, and things. Well, that I'm going to use that dad one probably make me cry the next time one of my kids calls me dad. When Katelyn calls me dad, I fucking, cause that's what she's called me since she was little, but I was always using then. So I took it for granted. But when she calls it, she doesn't call me dad often anymore, but when she does, almost make me cry right now. She says, dad, it's, it's, it's one of those heart strings that she pulls, especially when she's like, she'll hear me say something. And your kids probably do this too. Years too. She'll hear me say something that's important to me, but it's really not important to her. She could give two shits, but down the road, she'll repeat it back to me. So she knows that dad, it was important to me. I was listening and she's, and she'll say, right, dad. And I'm like, yeah, baby, that's right. Yeah. See, it's, it's an amazing feeling. And it's, it's, it's something I took for granted for the first six years of her life that it's like what you said. Now I get to really be present and I get to really enjoy it and I get to just be grateful from it. And the coolest part, like, again, like having, you know, some time under my belt and from working in rehab and the people that I've gotten to know and gotten close to that there is nothing cooler than when you see other people's life go the directions that you're dead in terms of like, yeah, you get to see some, like, to see you sitting here doing a podcast, you know, on recovery and you being aware of these things, you, you're so happy. Yeah. Well, you had a big part of these people. I gave you a platform. Yeah. Again, going back to you did what you had to do to do it. Yeah. Um, like the other night, there was a bunch of us that went out to Perry's. You know, it was John, John Shry, Presley, Matt Lindenberger, you know, and some other guys that were, and all of us are worse boys. And, you know, I've got a lot more time than anybody in there. And I've seen every one of those guys at their worst, you know, to when they were just at that point. Then fast forward, you're sitting at a table and everybody at that table has time. You know, two of the guys, Charlie and Mike, they're recently, you know, had kids. And it's just like, you see these people to where, you know, they, they had nothing there. They were in a terrible spot. And now you see their lives just getting big and we're all just sitting there. We had a blast just crack, cracking up. But I'm sitting back and I'm kind of watching, you know, everything. Cause I've seen every one of those guys at the worst and you're just so happy for people. Yeah. You know, it's the coolest. Yeah. Like when the book talks about it's an experience that you must not miss. Yeah. Well, they're not wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. Some of the things. So like the promises, the book tells you how they come true. As long as you keep doing what you're supposed to do. And I say that same thing. Like when you see people, when they first come in the rooms, because I always try to make friends with as many people as I possibly can. I definitely introduce myself to most everybody. And when you see people at 10 days, right? And then you see them at their two month chip or their six month chip or their one chip, like the growth that they have is fucking like it's priceless. And when you, especially in the position that you were in, when you have a piece and that you had skin in the game to where you gave people a platform, even though you don't want to take credit for all that, but you gave them a place and you had a bigger part in that than what you probably think that you do or what you want to give yourself credit for. And when you get to get to see that and as many people as you got to help, it's, it's that's something that there's no drug that can ever give you that high of a feeling than watching people come from here and get to there and know that I had a little bit of a part in that. You know, this, this buddy of mine, the worst boy also, he made a post the other day and I was thinking about it. He's one of my favorite stories. Names JJ Gomez. This dude, he was alcoholic and he called late at night, you know, to, to try to get in because he didn't have the, you know, resources and he was blitz drunk. And I still have the voicemail that he left, you know, just because I love it. He's so drunk and, you know, the voicemail is like, you know, sorry, we can't take your call. Yeah. You know. And so his message was, he's like, message, you don't need to leave a message. I need help. Fuck you. It was such a dick. But the next day when I listened to that message, I loved it. You know, so I was like, I'm calling this guy. Called him back and he's, and I told, told him that because I was just like, I got your message. And I was like, I love it. He was like, man, I'm sorry. I was blitz drunk. And I was like, no, man, that's like, you know, let's get you in here. Yeah. And so fast forward watching him, his kids, and he has built a business to where he is doing very well, you know, financially. And so you get to see these stories on, you know, on a grand scale, you know, when you're like in a position that I was in or really anybody kind of, you know, working in recovery and thank God for those because we see a lot of tragic. You know, stuff auto, you know, as well. And you get to see it in a big volume from being, you know, in that, in that world. So I really miss the interaction with the guys on that scale, you know, and seeing all these crazy stories. I certainly don't miss the, the other side of it. Yeah. That's what I wanted to ask you is when you were working in recovery and with solstice, you see a lot of great stories, but you also see a lot of people that don't make it, right? Yeah. And in the beginning and towards the end, did that always affect you the same, especially when we lose people, right? Cause unfortunately that I always tell people the longer that you're in recovery, you're going to lose more and more people. Unfortunately. Yeah, it's unavoidable. It's just unavoidable. It's just what it is. And I know I've talked to some people to where it doesn't become normal for them. I wouldn't say it becomes familiar, but it becomes familiar. And is that kind of the same with you? Like in the beginning, did it affect you more or did it always affect you the same? It affected me more in the beginning. And I don't say that, you know, like in a callous, you know, way, but yeah, just because you're not that familiar, you know, kind of with loss. And so yeah, it affects you at a deeper level. As, as time goes on and more tragedies, more loss, it's like, you do become more familiar, you know, with it. Um, and there's sometimes like, you know, I've lost a lot of people that were, you know, my best friends and, you know, that I met through the rooms and you wish that you could cry more for it, but it's just not there. You know, you still feel the loss. You still miss them, you know, the same, but you don't kind of have the emotional response. I, I started to get so flat and kind of in that regard that I didn't, I didn't like it because I wanted to be able to access that, that more because I knew that it bothered me. It's just, you learn to compartmentalize it and kind of shove it down. So I checked myself in a, in a week program in this amazing place in Kentucky. They, it's a dual diagnosis, you know, it's been around forever, very coveted place to where they deal with dual diagnosis clients, primarily heavy on the mental health side, but they offer a, you know, five or seven day, I think it's seven day. They offer a seven day track for people that work in recovery to where, and they don't practically charge anything just for you to get away for you to go through this crazy body of work to clinically, whatever you're dealing with. And for me, I went up there because I wanted to unearth, you know, this stuff. And they, man, they, they opened me up fast. And it was me and I want to say five other people, you know, small groups, you know, that, that are in there. And I was the only dude in there. It was all girls. I cried more than anybody in there. And, and I'm still reaping the benefits of, you know, of doing it. But yeah, it's just you stuff it down and it does affect you for me. It affected me more than I, you know, of how flat that I got. And so it's like, you know, when you think of like, you know, let's say, uh, paramedics, you know, I can't wrap my mind around the shit that they see. Yeah. People burned up in, you know, their cars, they're just unfathomable. Yeah. And it's like, but for them, I'm sure it gets familiar, but there's no way it doesn't affect you, which is why most of those fields, you're required to do certain things to make sure you take care of yourself, like therapists and all that, because it'll jam you up one way or the other. I mean, you know, it will. But for me, it was, you know, you just start to, I started to kind of feel like a sociopath, you know, basically a psychopath or you want to call it. We're, cause you're like, you just had a very dear loss. Yeah. You know, you just lost your boy and you, it's just like, I should feel it more than I am. What's wrong with me? Right. You know, for not feeling it, but it's just because of repetition. You know, it becomes way too familiar. Yeah. Like at, at solstice, the amount of, just from that facility, the amount of people that we lost through there is probably around a hundred. Wow. You know, a lot because we got the worst of the worst that we're in there. High acuity, you know, most of them, I would say 80% of the people that went in were heroin, fentanyl addicts, all IV. And so you're going to deal with a lot of loss because of the shit that they're fucking with on her. And so, you know, and it seems like everybody that, um, that passed was just one of those people that was just salt of the earth in terms of, you know, just a worse boy to the core. They just had this beautiful, attractive gift, you know, we're just, you enjoyed their company so much. They made you laugh, you know, so much, you know, we lost people that, you know, we're on the team, you know, buying that stuff. And so, I mean, you're dealing with some very close losses. Um, but it did affect me enough to where that was one of the big reasons why I was ready to, you know, do something different. And so I'm still able to. Experience some of that, you know, when, you know, someone reaches out or, you know, or I'm able to provide assistance, you know, in one way, because I always want to be able to have, um, I never want to, you know, rob myself of that, you know, experience, you gotta have a foot in the door, man. Yeah. I mean, that's part of my recovery and doing it. I just don't do it at the scale, you know, that I want it. And who knows what's down the road. Like, I'll probably wind up doing something again, you know, one day because even now, you know, roofing contractor, you're not in, you know, recovery is two very different things. And, um, I still feel like a sellout. Yeah. Okay. You know, because I, I really felt like that God put me where he put me in, in recovery to help him. Cause I, and I promised God, I was like, man, if you, if you do me this solid, like help me out in my life, I will spend the rest of my life serving you. You know, I distinctly remember that prayer. And I've never forgot it. And so, and again, this is like, I still feel like, and my turning my back on it. And when I'm looking at it, um, kind of logically it's like, no, you know, you're not, but I still can't help the way that I feel, you know, about it. Yeah. Look, man, I'll tell you, like you're out here right now, you know, sharing your story and to me, you're not turning your back on it at all. That's one reason why I wanted to do this. A, I wanted to be a part of it. You know, because just, I think you guys are on to something like just with the backdrop, like you guys, you know, have here and just y'all's raw as well as kind of comical approach to things. I think that it could really, really do well. But I also knew that because it always proves true that one thing that I know is that when I, when I leave here, you know, I'm going to be in a much better move, you know, yeah. Goosebumps again. The music's going to sound a little better and that spills over to when I, when I go home, I'm going to be a better husband. I'm going to be a better father because I'm going to be so wide awake to this gift of a life, you know, this joke of a life that I get to, you know, live these days. And so I never want to deprive myself of that, but I just have to combat that selfish side of me to where it's just like, Oh, I don't have time, you know, I don't have time to go for that. You, it's like you fight the very thing that is the best medicine, you know, yeah, in the world, but it never fails to be true. It's like, I will piss and moan sometimes that somebody asked me to do something like God, because they're inconveniencing you because again, I'm very selfish, you know, at the core, but it has never not once been the case to when I left there. It's like, man, thank God that I, that I did that because you see things 2020 again, as opposed to living up here all day, you know, it's like you have a couple of different sets of eyes. You have your eyes right here and you have your eyes that are in your head. And I'm constantly looking out, you know, it's like I'm, my eyes are open, but I'm in La La land. You know, it's like you drive somewhere and you have no idea what you saw or anything, you know, because you're always just in your head. But in doing anything that's like service oriented or engaging with other people in recovery, then you start to see out your eyes again. And your mind is the volume on its turn down. And he just feels so much better because this has been and always will be the source of the problems is my mind. You know, it is just geared to fuck me one way or the other. And there's no way I'm going to be able to detach this thing. Although you wish you could, you know, it's just, you wish you could just throw it away because it just robs you, you know, so much. And there is nothing that I've ever found that gets me seeing out of my eyes, you know, more than when you do something like this or when you help, you know, somebody else. Well, look, brother, we've had 50 something mod episodes now. That's wild. And, uh, I'm just going to go ahead and say it right now, but you played a part in this. Yeah. Me really did. Huge part. It's being Frankie. I've actually talked about this, you know, a good bit because, you know, we've, we've known each other for a while. And it's like, you know, had I never met Frank, you know, then my life probably wouldn't look the way that it does in vice versus. And it all started with a phone call. The phone call was, cause again, I was in this place called burning tree. And it was a big time behavior mod place. I mean, it was, you could not have your feet on tables. You could not be in your room during the day at all. I mean, it was, it was like doing time. Yeah. And that was like big book all day. I mean, big book clinical and all that. I mean, it was accountability to say the least on it. And you can't do that shit anymore that they did there because of like state regs, but it was, it was hard. And it was also because of that, it was just like, I'm never going back to, you know, rehab again. And Mark Houston was the executive director of that place. And so I got to know Mark through there. And when I got to the place where I needed help, I was reached out to Mark and I was going to ask him for a scholarship to go back to that very place. Knowing that I was going to be gone for a year, knowing I was going to an ass kicker of a place, but he answered the phone and he's like, it's weird that you called. I just opened up a treatment center right here in your hometown. I said, get the fuck out of here. You know, I'm on my way. Without that phone call, right? I don't go to that place. I don't meet those people. And it's just like it. Who knows what my life would look like had I not made that one phone call. Yeah. You know, without that phone call, you and me aren't sitting here. It's just a fact. And when you think about it, when you boil it down to just those how a moment in time changes everything, not only for you, but for other people. You know, all the people on the wall without that phone call. There was, there would never be a solstice. There would never be this, that, you know, and a million other like different things and you can really trip out when you start thinking about that. You're like, wow, because it was a moment in time that had really no significance in itself at that time, but changed everything for you. And not only that did so much for so many other people, you know, 100%. It's crazy. Yeah. So when I hear you say that you've turned your back on anything and the recovery community and sold out, look at that brick wall, dude. Yeah, there's some, there's some gangsters. There's some, there's, there's some names on that wall, man. And yeah, I mean, had you not been there for him when he came through, then that brick wall doesn't have those names on it. I mean, and I get it. Cause you know, I would, I would all mark, you know, he winded up passing away from a stomach aneurysm, but like it was, it was Mark Houston. There was another one of my guys there. He has since passed his name was Tony mess, Barger and his other therapist named like Robert Bowles. And whenever I see them or saw them, I would always thank them. You know, just be like, and I would tell them, and I'm in it. Be like, man, you guys, you know, y'all, y'all saved my life. You know, I mean, just cause they were there at the beginning. I look at Parisi and the other guys I was there. It's just like all these guys play such a huge part in my life. And you know, without them, I don't have these kids. Right. Yeah. Well, you helped me save my life. And so I get to, you know, like, like how that works. But again, it's crazy when you go back to where like things really started from and where everything started from in this regard was just over a five minute phone call in 2006. Small moments, right? Well, you helped save my life, brother. Whether you want to take that credit or not. I don't. I'm actually, we have somebody that works with us. That was in solstice with me. Evan, remember Evan? Fuck yeah. Evan works with us. He got, I got him a job with us. He just got engaged. He just paid off all his probation and he's over two years sober. Evan's fucking doing great, man. I mean, you get so happy. Yeah. I mean, Evan had been the solstice a few times. I've heard about this thing. Yeah. Well, I think like three. Yeah. You know what's funny is when, when I got out of solstice, Evan got out like two weeks before me, right? And that was about two months over and I get a phone call from Evan and say, Hey, man, I hate to call you, but I ain't got no one else call. Can you send me 20 bucks? He had, he had relapsed already. He said, can you send me 20 bucks? I said, for what? He's like, I just need some crack. And I said, look, I said, bro, like you want me to come give it to you? He said, no, you can cash out. I don't want you drive to me because then I might try to get you. I don't want to bring you in this. So I was like, let me call you right back. So I called Mickey. Remember Mickey? Mickey Fallon. Yeah. Mickey was with us. So Mickey had just got out too. Love that. I called Mickey and I'm like, Hey, Evan just called me for 20 bucks. What should I do? He said, you already sent him 20 bucks this morning. Go ahead and send it to him. He's going back to solstice tomorrow anyways. He's already talked to Cole. They're bringing him back. Just let him get high one more time. I did that so much for so many people. I was like, you know, of course you're told don't ever give somebody because you know, you're just going to wind up getting them high. But you know, because you've been there, you're like, you know what, if I can, I'm going to give him money knowing damn well where it's going. But if it serves as kind of a bridge to help, you know, means to an end to get him there, it's just like, you know, the pros outweigh the cons on it. Yeah. And I also loved it because, you know, like I, I don't know, people that were ever that I was around, they would, they knew that I was easy to talk to because I would never ring somebody up, you know, and just like, you know, just judge them or talk down to them. You know, I'm kind of the opposite because I just like being eye to eye with people. And so, but because of that, you know, people don't hold back, you know, they would not try to bullshit me. Just be like, I need to get high. So I'm like, yeah, man, you know, like, I got you. The only time when I wouldn't do it was when it became a big pattern. To where it's just like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not helping this person. Yeah. You know, probably being like, yeah, I was to it, but. Well, it's awesome that you like, when you mentioned someone's name to you, you even remember their last names, right? You don't, I don't know if you realize how big in this community your name really is. Like, I know when Mickey went to court, he was talking about, he was going away for a minute and he said, and Cole walked in and it saved me. He said, Cole walked in and the judge was like, fucking Cole Shifley. Fucking come back to my chambers, come talk to me. And whatever you went back and talk to him about kept Mickey from fucking going to prison. And that's those, I remember that vividly. Um, it was those things to where, you know, you're just overcome with this. We're life, you know, you're just like, what is going on with my life? Because, you know, you go from being someone that frequents being in the courtroom to fast forward, you know, you, you have a judge asking you to go to chambers because they want your opinion on it. Like, um, it stopped it at COVID, but prior to that for about, you know, 10 years before that, I had what's called authorized access at the, the jails in Texas, which meant that I could go in and I can get face to face with an inmate with the same privileges that a lawyer would have or someone like that. Like no pexiglass, you know, you get to go in there with them. And every time I'd walk out of there, it's just like, how did this? You're just looking around. You're like, what? You signed the wall when you was on the other side. And now you're fucking, you know, like the, the judges, um, I think they always liked me just because I didn't bullshit. And, you know, it's like they, they get gained and lied to, you know, all the time. And I would just tell them, you know, straight up like, Hey, yes, this guy's got history. We've been here before done it again, but from what I'm hearing, you know, like be cool, this guy has, has another chance. And I would also like to tell him like, you know, as well as I do judge, like, you know, if this is going to work out or not, but, you know, I think it's kind of worse than risk. And it was really cool to when they would, they would consider that to him, you know, and especially like when it, when it worked out. Yeah. Yeah. It was surreal. But I mean, when I, when I started working in, in recovery, there, there was two treatment centers in Austin at that time. Now you can't count, you know, how many they are. That's insane. It's insane. But I got, I was able to get known, you know, more than other people, mainly when I started the last resort, because, you know, your position does get elevated to when, you know, you're a founder and a director of a facility, you know, you get more visibility. And, you know, you just do. And then, you know, go on to solstice kind of after that, you know, you got more visibility. And the cool thing was, was that like, um, everybody knew that I was completely fucked off, you know, in my mind, you know, it's like, I've always kind of been, been me, you know, don't try to play like anything else, but people knew that my heart was always kind of, kind of in the, in the right spot. And, you know, on it. So, but because of the way that I interacted with people, which is like how, you know, we're interacting on there. Yeah. You know, I, I think I got more visibility than most people. And then solstice was huge just because of the amount of guys that we held that didn't have like any money and all that. So, um, it was really cool how upheld solstice was, you know, which was just like so many professionals advocated for us just because it's like, Hey, these, these guys are filling a huge void, especially when like Austin recovery shut down because of COVID, there was no other spot to where people could go get help that didn't have resources. And that's one thing I think that is part of the guilt tip is, is that now there's no spot, you know, in Austin, to where if you do go to a state funded facility, you have to walk through so much tape to get there. And it takes so long, you know, and you're going to a place that a lot of times is it's hard to get well in because these centers, they deal with very little resources, you know, when they're a nonprofit on there, but they do the best that they can. And so it, um, I don't like that there's not a place like solstice. Yeah. Like, right. You know, I went, I tell people all the time, like the place that I want was the perfect place for me. I don't know that if it would have worked, if I would have went to one of these other places, but when I went there, it was the most at home I felt in such a long time. And the, the, the first time that I could just be me without having to get high, like, you know, I'm a different person. And be embraced because of you being who you really are and be around. Like I couldn't have picked another group of 11 guys that like, if you would have said pick 11 guys, I would have picked the 11 that I was with. Like who else was in your community? Uh, well you had Evan, you had Mickey, you had Ashton, me and Ashton, he's getting married. You know that he's doing well. Um, I had Grant and you, uh, Grant Robertson, he just reached out to me. He wants to come on the podcast. I see him on Facebook. He, uh, he had went through some struggles, but he's getting back into it. And he's like, man, I would love to come on. Uh, I just talked to Patrick the other day. Um, Patrick's not doing great. Which Patrick? Um, is it Willis Patrick? Patrick Willis. Yeah. Patrick Willis. He's a stud and that dude has got a story that is. Man, when he's on, he was my sponsor for a while. My mind boggling. When he is on his shit, he is fucking great. And he's such a good dude. Such a good dude. That's the thing that people don't realize is all of those, all of these, most people that I've ever done drugs with are fucking great people. When they're sober. Yeah. And there are a lot of them are great people, even when they're using, but man, when they get sober, if they can turn that fucking switch and turn that corner of, you know, that hustle mentality that we have when we're trying to get high, if we can put that into doing everyday life shit and going to get something like this podcast, like you can achieve some amazing fucking things. If you can just turn that into something positive. Say that that was. Mickey, Mickey was there. Love Mickey Seth. Such a stud. You know, remember Seth doing fucking love. I love Seth. Like you're saying, like these guys are just salt of the freak at earth. Like, and I've got fucking really like lifetime friends and brothers from their characters and community. And then your texts that you had there fucking Taso. I love Taso. Taso was there. Fucking Clint was there. Raven got there after he had been there before and he got there after. I'm so happy for that dude. Yeah. He's doing great. I mean, that, that's just a perfect example of, you know, sober, he's lost all his weight. You know, he's a dad on teen times. Yeah. Like over now. And, you know, I got to see him, you know, to win, like, you know, he, he was bad. And I really worried about him just never believing in himself that he could possibly be there was, there was so much. Like behind solstice, things were done for a reason. You know, there, it was very much calculated. Like I knew. Don't know, but I felt strongly that because of the way that we went about things in terms of, I believe in the power of laughter. I believe in the power of the guys, the boys. I really feel strongly that if you can, if you can give people an experience to where, you know, they're in recovery and they're laughing a lot, they, they love the guys and knowing that the relapse rates are, you know, crazy as they are, but you, I wanted them to have a point of reference. To me, like I, I want to, I felt that way before I had a great time with these guys. I want to do it again. Again, I wanted something to be coveted, you know, to come back in just in hopes that it makes it easier for that individual to give it another shot as opposed to the opposite. And so like, yeah, the boats will rise together. Yeah. Like, I mean, but there were so many, again, everything there was for a reason. And a lot of it is, you know, people would say his ass backwards, but I absolutely believed in, you know, the way we, you know, the way we went about. Yeah. Very, very, Johnny, text me the other day. Johnny, Johnny still reaches out. He's a character. He's a fucking man. That guy, he was, he was number one, dude. He was Johnny is, Johnny is still to this day, one of the smartest people I've ever, I've ever had a conversation with wicked smart. And it, it makes me feel uncomfortable. He was my sponsor too. And it makes me feel uncomfortable because it's like when Joe Rogan talks to Elon Musk and he says he makes you feel like how, how in not smart you are, Johnny can make me feel that way. Yeah. Because Johnny's just like fucking psychologically. He's just, he's on a different level. He is. So, you know, and he, the way that he breaks shit down and looks at the whole picture, you can't teach it. It's uncomfortable for me. You can't teach what, you know, someone with, with a mind like he has when it's applied to, you know, breaking down, you know, things and all that. He was fun to watch, you know, and doing it because again, I got a lot more experience than, than Johnny. A lot. It's just a fact. But when he's doing a group and he's on, I'm just watching him like, you know, just, you're kind of in awe. You're like, boy, it's good. Yeah. He's good. And then, O.G. Joey, remember O.G. Joey, which one? Krause. Yes. Yeah. I like Joe. Uh, well you had Joey that was a tech. Yeah. And then O.G. Joey. Um, what's Joey? He's, uh, I know his last name. Um, Oh God, I hate it when I can't put someone's face to it. Joey Watts. Yes. There you go. We had to, we had to say that for me to be like, yes. You know what's funny is I, I worked with a girl that texts me the other day. And I'll tell you the name after this. She's like, Hey, your friend Joey. Fucking give him my number. He's a fucking hottie. And I was like, well, unfortunately for you, he's not going to be interested at all. And she's like, why? And I told her, she's like, are you fucking kidding me? I was like, no, they get all the good ones. He does not swing for, he does not like women. He likes boys, which is fine, whatever. But, and she was like fucking heartbroken. She was like, this is fucking terrible. This is why I don't go after. She was all pissed. Joey was a scary woman because I mean, I mean, just hopeless alcohol. And, you know, and, uh, he would go through some rough, you know, mental stuff, but it's just like, still around. Yeah. Little things like that. You see someone's name or you see their picture. Yeah. Yeah, man. But look at, look at the, look at the net you've cast though. Dude, like, I mean, just here, just watching. It's just been one month for me. Yeah. Just watching your face when he's bringing up these people, man, is like, it's a really beautiful thing to watch. So appreciate it. But I mean, these are beautiful people, man. You know, it's dude, there's so many beautiful people in this. Like, I mean, I think that's the point, right? Is like, let's go find more of these people because they're out there and they're just in dark places and they need to be. So that, that was the coolest thing about being in a, in a spot like being a tarot, you know, we're in or really anybody that works in this is that you, you're crazy exposed in terms of volume of the people that you get to see. Like, you know, it's just not the community that you go through. You see countless communities of these, of these guys. And again, like, man, I can't, I can't think of a dude, you know, through all, through all these years that I've met to where I was just like, man, that's a bad dude. Yeah. It's just like these, these guys are, are awesome. But, you know, you, you get to experience people and how good they really are. You know, through your interactions in terms of like, I don't expect people to tell me their, you know, things that are very uncomfortable to talk about. But if I can make it easy on them by me talking about my stuff and me exposing my shit, and you make it very easy for, you know, for somebody to open up that is very closed off. Absolutely. And so you get to see these people for who they really are. And man, it's, I do, I miss that a lot. Little Tyler, you remember Tyler? Which one? Fuck, I have to look his last name up. We had two Tyler's. He's still sober. And he's just as long as I am. So whenever we were there, he was the one that nobody thought was going to stay sober. Like there ain't no fucking way. He was from Corpus. His dad ran a construction company up there. And he, uh, Ooh, I'm close. All of his teeth, he's got all of his teeth redone now. He's got beautiful teeth. He had fucking terrible teeth when he was at Solstice. He got all his teeth redone. Good looking dude. Was a good looking dude. He just had bad teeth. Um, but he's been sober for over three years. He's working. He runs a, um, a forklift in fucking like, uh, he does construct. He works like 70 hours a week. Works his ass off. Fuck. And when he comes into town, he'll call me and say, let's go, go catch a meeting. And, um, yeah, he was fucking, he was not in the head. So when we was at Solstice, we had chores that we had to do, right? You had a fucking way. I had chores and fucking forever. So we had to wake up and do chores. He could only ever sweep because his arm was fucked up because he shot dope in his arm and it fucked his wrist up. So he said it was bullshit. Fucking bullshit. Because y'all took us to climb at, uh, bold and, uh, where's the place we go? Climb. Remember how Costa took you all there? Yeah. We went and climbed like mountain climb, but it's not climb indoor. And this little motherfucker could climb all the fucking hardest shit. And we were like, bro, what's, what's up with your wrist? So after that, he was back on chores because he was, there was no more fucking. He was only, he would be outside blowing the leaves because that was the only thing he could do cause his wrist was hurt. But then this motherfuckers climbing all the fucking, all the, the hardest of the heart, he could climb everything. So yeah, we had to put him a back on chore duty after that. He couldn't fucking, there was no more leaf blowing. Things like that. I love, I can't tell you how many guys that was on chores and you see him just standing there with the broom, like they got a big mic on say, they're not doing anything. Yeah. They're just sitting there with the broom, you know, and looking, she's like, I know what you're doing, but I'm not even gonna, I'm not even allowed to watch this cause this is great to watch. It was fun, dude. It was a, we had one. It was. We had one, we, we had, we couldn't have our phones. So we had one, we had one, a porn magazine, right? That was stashed off somewhere. And, um, what was the, um, what was the older guy that passed away? Um, used to work for Dale. Tony, Tony, Tony, guys I was talking about in terms of like who I owe so much to. Yeah. So Tony was he, man, big book fucking knew it all, right? All knew it all. When Tony left, he took the fucking porn magazine with him and he left one page. Right. There was one page that one page went from fucking room to room to room. So like it was so bad. It was like someone's taking a shower and they're like, Hey, who's got page 69 and someone would have to go get it from their room and bring it to the bathroom for that person. Because that was the only page. And here you go, man. I'm fine. Only page, only page he left fucking to one page. That was, that was a tough one for me. Yeah. Um, it was actually, it was a very weird one as well. And because I, I, I give Tony all the credit in the world for saving my life. Yeah. You know, and he's the one that really mentored me in terms of like how to do admissions and so much. Yeah. I put him on a high pedestal. It was very weird when you go from, um, when the script is flipped, you know, to when all of a sudden one of your heroes, you know, is, you know, in your care. I didn't, I didn't like the way that that felt. Uh, you know, just because it's like, that's, that's my guy. Like, you know, I put you, you know, far above me, but of course, you know, cause he was there multiple times and I would say yes to him every time. Just cause I love that man of death, but that one broke my fucking heart. No, it's crazy. So he bought Tyler's truck, uh, little Tyler Tyler. Hey, he bought a new truck and Tony bought his old Ford and he had wrecked it. So we had helped him change the fucking panels on it. Right. We bought the panels, me and Tyler and him. Well, he was staying at a TASA where TASA sober living was. He was staying, was it TASA's? No, it was someone else's. It was the other guys. Probably Charlie, Charlie. Mom, so who, um, a mid, a mid had two sober homes. He was staying at one of them and Tyler was there. Ashton was there. Well, we helped him change his panels and then he was like, yeah, I'm going to San Antonio to make three amends this weekend. And Tyler was like, that's not a good idea. Tony, you shouldn't do that. He said, you should, you, why don't I go with you and I'll go with you. And you can do one amends and then we're going to come home. And he said, no, I'm going to make all three this weekend. I'm good. And then he, that was when all that went down. Think of, I remember right. One of those was with a girl that he had, uh, sexual relations with in the past. That winded up kind of, you know, didn't go according to plan. Yeah. Then after that, he wound up in California. It wasn't a bad way out there. Yeah. Yeah. I swear, I remember him going down to San Antonio. Mm hmm. Yeah. So do that. But yeah, that was my guy. That guy was a deli in there. You know, when Dell, you know, he was, he was high up the food chain. When Dell was just in the beginning of his growth, big house, you know, boats, jet skis and all that. You said he had everything and started maybe doing crack, right? Yeah. He wound up in the penitentiary, um, had a spiritual experience in there. And then after that, he started working in, in treatment, but Tony was again, I emulated a lot of, um, of things that I did after Tony, which was, I, you'd never felt uncomfortable talking to this guy because he never judged. He never does. And he told you straight up. Yeah. And he, you know, he would just laugh at things that are un-laughable because only someone like Tony, you know, you find the humor in these, you know, tragic things, you know, that we do. And again, that's one of the beautiful things about fellow people in recovery is you laugh at these real dark moments, you know, in our time. And there's a lot of healing in that, but Tony was a crazy example of that. But I never did not tell Tony how I felt about it. I'm glad that I did that. Yeah. You know, because he didn't like hearing it, you know, either. Yeah. Yeah. Well, uh, I think we got another one in the books. Sure. What a great fucking episode, man. You have to tell the cub story next time. What a great full circle. I can't believe you know that. Well, here's the thing is you're going to come back. Like we're, we need to come back with some solstice boys from my, from when I was in and bring you back on like a reunion. That'd be a five hour episode. We can break it up. We can do it, but I, I, I tell this to everybody. I know you're not, you know, technically working in recovery anymore, but you're still are working in recovery because we're here sitting here doing this thing. And you played a part in it. And because of that, the door's always open to you. And anything I can do that. And, um, this was fun. We want to, we were definitely coming back. And, um, if you ever need us for anything, we'll come running. So, all right. So it was real nice to meet you. Thanks for helping my boy out and, uh, giving them the platform. To, uh, get these walls built, man. So did I, did I tell you that the, the people that are, that bought solstice that are living there now, that they sent me a picture of what you wrote on the wall in there, you draw a dick on the wall. No. So you said, uh, you wrote in pencil on the wall, like this place saved my life. It'll save yours too. If you let it, they, uh, picture of it. I sent you a picture of it, right? No, you haven't sent it to me. I will. Yeah. Because the people that bought it. Um, they sent it to me. Oh, really? And they started researching solstice and they were like, Hey, apparently this place, you know, helped a lot of people and was really held in high regard. And they invited me to come back out there when they're done, uh, kind of remodeling it and I'm going to, I'm actually going to take them up on it, you know, but, uh, yeah, you're writing is still on the wall. So, uh, you know, what's crazy is the. Who's the family that is in ministry in Pittsburgh? Who's the fissurize? Yes. They've reached out to us and want to come on. They, whenever they come to Austin, they're going to come on probably this summer. You probably never got to meet Joe. I never got to, um, but I, what they're doing is amazing and they want to come on. They seen Bravans episode. They'll watch your episode and, uh, they were like, they reached out to us and they was like, Hey, whenever we come to Austin, we would love to come on. Cause they still are telling his story and paying it for. He's one of those guys that was, you know, one of my best friends I had, uh, I had to call his parents and deliver that. Those, uh, it was fucking awful. Yeah. But I mean that dude was hysterical. You know, so many of these guys, like Joe, she's like, they never once brought anything to your life other than just things that were amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Just laugh your balls off. Yeah. The time you're with them. Um, and you know, you hate to say that there's some good that comes out of someone's death because, you know, all you do is miss that person. But, uh, what, uh, what Chico and her husband have done is, you know, and they don't stop and they're on a fucking mission. And we're excited about them. Like we're like for sure. So when they come back on, if you'd be so kind as to come sit and maybe take a peek at it and take it out, I'd love to have you guys on the room together. It is tragic that you guys didn't get the opportunity to defer Joe to be here. Yeah. You know what's crazy is I told, I told them I'd never met him, but his name in those walls at Solstice was revered. Like fucking his name was mentioned all the time. One of those guys you never will never forget. If you meet them once, just huge personality. Yeah. He was awesome. That's pretty cool. You're getting them on. Yeah. So they're flying down. They're coming. They're coming. Well, they're going to come see their grandkids also. So they're going to, they said they'll be in Austin this summer and they would love to come on and yeah, it's like fucking come on. Yeah. Amazing. People can't wait. Well, you're welcome back anytime, brother. Yes. Thank you so much for coming on. We appreciate it. And thank you for all that you did for him. Uh, how do you, how do people find you? Uh, I kind of live under a rock these days, but I'm still on Facebook. Okay. You know, I haven't made a post in so long and I need to get back. I have a feeling you're going to get reached out to a little bit here. I have a feeling. Yeah, we'll tag you on our Facebook, Instagram. Give me your tick to our car. I'll get my son to teach me how to share that shit on like Instagram. There you go. Yeah. There you go. I'm stupid when it comes to social media. Likewise, we're literally literally like just now trying to figure that out. Like so. Sean Livingston just literally he said, y'all are doing yourself such an injustice. So he's trying to teach. Parisi's no joke either. When it comes to like knowing how he reached out to me last week, he wants to come back on. He's like, man, tell me when y'all want me back on. I'd love to come back on. He won't shut up about his story. No, no, he's still out there and it doesn't get old either. So we, we'd love to have him back on. I saw him right before he was going to have that transplant in the hospital. And that was hard. Cause I thought I was saying goodbye to one of my boys. You know, and you clearly were not. No, that dude's not going anywhere anytime soon. But, uh, thank you. Thank you a million times over. Thank you for coming on brother. Yeah. Two addicts and a moron. Peace. We're out. We're out of here.