The Coaches They Are A-Changin'

Shrekosky, he can do a whole block just by himself. Sorry, not Shrekosky, especially because he... What? What? What? What? Trials. Ah. Great orchestra. And how about that Demi Moore on the answer, you know? Boy, does she ever move. Welcome to 32 Thoughts, the podcast presented by your Canadian Toyota dealers in the 2026 Tacoma. The days before red tag days are over. It is Wednesday. It is the beginning of the conference vinyl. It gets underway tonight. The first one up in the West, Colorado and Vegas. We will preview and talk about that a little bit later on. Also Montreal, Carolina, that will get started on Thursday. We will have a thought line here today. Elliot Friedman, Dom Schramatik, Kyle Bacosk is with you. But we'll begin with a bit of news off the hop. Elliot says on Tuesday out in Vancouver, less than a week after being hired as general manager, Brian Johnson has already made his first set of changes. Adam Foote is out as head coach after one season, along with assistant Scott Young, Kevin Dean and Brett McClain. I know you have been a believer that if you fire a coach after one season, it is an organizational misstep and I'm completely with you on that. But it just get the sense with how tumultuous not only this year, but the last two years have been in Vancouver. There is a real sense with a new regime for a fresh start and making changes to the coaching staff seems to be a part of the desire to get that fresh start. I think that's exactly what it is, Kyle. I would also suspect too, if you really think about it, the Siddheens and Ryan Johnson were officially introduced at the end of last week. And for Adam Foote to be fired on the first working day or first business day after Victoria Day, don't you think Kyle, they pretty much made the decision and were waiting to tell Foote first, like am I way off base to think that? No. And didn't you get this and kind of some of the things that Henrik said, but didn't say in our interview with him that something was going to be coming this week or we would hear more this week of kind of what the plans were. Certainly gave you pause to think about that as well there. Yes. So I think this was a decision that was made as they took the job. They probably had a good idea. If not, they'd already decided to do it. And yes, you know how I feel about firing a coach after one season, but Kyle, clearly it's we're starting over. The ownership has accepted a rebuild. And honestly, of all the things that Henrik Siddheens said on our podcast, the thing that most people who know the Aqualini family is that the Siddheens had the juice where other people haven't had over the year to say, look, it's either a rebuild or this is not for us. And the answer was it's a rebuild of all the things Henrik said. That is the thing that resonated most with people who know the Canucks. Anyway, I would have thought it was the gross grind line. And they would have laughed and they said, that's Henrik. They said, if he would have said anything other than that, they would have been shocked. But it's a fresh start. They're starting over. This is more about this is a new era, a new day as opposed to anything else. Now I was on with the Sad Shaw and Biknazar on Tuesday night. We were talking about the decision. I don't know about you, Kyle, but it sure looks to me like this isn't much of a search beyond Manny Malhotra. And I think a lot of people will be surprised if it isn't Manny Malhotra. First of all, Ryan Johnson and his availability said, we've got to sit down and talk to him and see how he feels. And number two, the thing that really interested me, Kyle, is that I've heard in the scouting community out there, they believe there's a real legit chance the Canucks take Caleb Malhotra at three. Who knows? There's six weeks between now and the draft. Lots of things can happen. But talking six weeks out today, if you were to tell people in the amateur scouting community that Caleb Malhotra is going to the Vancouver Canucks, they would believe you without a question. That said, Ryan Johnson was asked about that. And his answer wasn't, well, we'll have to sit down and talk to Manny and see how he feels about that. It was, I'm not concerned about it. And we're going to pick the best coach. If you're really concerned that that's going to be a problem, that is not going to be your answer. And so they're going to sit down with them. They're going to talk to them. And the final thing, Kyle, is that we talked about on the last pod about familiarity. Ultimately, I think Ryan Johnson beat out Evan Gold as the decedent's choice because they know him. They know him. They've worked with him. They helped all combine to win a Calder Cup championship a year ago. They know Vancouver's prospect based together. They know the organization together. Who else is part of that group that won a Calder Cup championship, knows the prospects, knows some of the kids who've graduated to the NHL already and knows what they have? And is someone the Siddheans has spoken glowingly about? They basically called him a player coach when he played. And there were times the coaches didn't even have to go into the room on a team that was one of the NHL's best in the early 2010s because whatever they needed to say, Malhotra had already said it. Kyle, if he is not the coach of this team, I'm going to be very surprised. Other to that, Ian McIntyre wrote a piece that's up on Sportsnet.ca right now off of Tuesday's news. Here was his lead. When Ryan Johnson needed to hire a minor league coach for the Vancouver Canucks two years ago, he described his search process this way. Quote, there was a bunch of names on one list and then there was one name on my main list and that was Manny. End quote. That about says it all right there. There's more to the piece that Ian wrote, but he could have ended it right there. Please give us the clicks. Ian and the website Sportsnet.ca needs the clicks. I don't want Kyle getting an editor's note from Rory Boylan saying, thanks a lot, Kyle. Now no one is going to read this piece. Yes, it gets better from there. Let me assure you, that's just the appetizer. That is just the tantalizing tuna tartare of the entire dinner. The entree is still to come. I think everybody is on the same page here. They don't have enough of a resume, this regime, the Sadeens and Ryan Johnson to really have us prepare for what they're going to do, but one thing we are learning early is that familiarity matters. We're not just picking people because they know them. They're picking good people over other candidates because they know them. I don't think anybody is saying that Ryan Johnson is a bad hire, but I think that we are saying that what edged Ryan Johnson over Evan Gold was their familiarity with a good candidate. I think Kyle, their familiarity with another good candidate is the reason that most of us are betting on Manny Melhofer to be the guy. We'll see how it goes, but I think we're all kind of expecting this to go in that direction. We'll be shocked if it doesn't. Shocked. Not appalled, but shocked. Yeah. And then Johnson also mentioned on Tuesday that Camigranato, Emily Castongue, they aren't going anywhere. They will continue in their roles within the organization going forward. As you mentioned, Ali, I think it was about Vancouver in particular. At the end of the season, there's a lot of uncertainty. Just don't leave people hanging. And as Johnson said, everyone's scattered now. They've gone in different directions as the off season has begun. And he said, we wanted to get this done now. So for those that wanted to seek opportunities elsewhere, they had sufficient time to do so. Always the right way to do it. Always. On weekend. They did not waste any time. By the way, I did want to mention one more thing just about the whole Malhotra, Malhotra thing. I did. The only reason I've ever heard that people are concerned about that is that, you know, I can tell you there was a situation in Winnipeg where Dave and Adam Lowry. Dave was the head coach and Adam, of course, the captain was one of the key players. And one person from the Jets told me that the only problem with that, and this is someone who thinks the world of both Dave and Adam Lowry, is that sometimes when you're a player in the room, you're just having a bad day and you like to complain about your coach. You just want a wine. Like, oh, like this freaking guy. And you might not even dislike him. It's just like, it's just how can you just like Dave Lowry? Yeah. He says, how can you dislike Dave Lowry? He's such a great guy. Everybody, and again, everybody knows how nice Adam is. And they say, you just want to say, I can't believe this guy did this to me today. And it's always tougher. And nobody ever thinks that the player is going to rat you out to the coach, but it's just always tougher when it's family. He said that is the only thing that would ever concern him about something like that. He said, if you're a pro like the Lowrys, it's not about favoritism. And he said, if you were a pro like many Malhotra, and he says, Caleb Malhotra would never want to come into the NHL and have the other players think that his dad was bending over backwards to help him in a way that was not beneficial to the team. He says, pros don't worry about that. It's more like you just want to complain sometimes and you worry about doing it around the coaches son. That was the only thing. I actually went back and I called that player today to make sure I had that story correctly. And he said, yes, that's true. Yes. It sounds like those will be two different conversations to be had within the organization. Who's the next head coach going to be? And who are they going to pick a three at the draft in June? So that's the story in Vancouver. Meanwhile, in Vegas, so Tuesday morning, Elliott, members of the Golden Knights met in New York, the league offices, or the punishment they received in the aftermath of the Game Six against Anaheim, where they were assessed. John Tortorello's assessed $100,000 fine. They lost their second round pick at this year's draft. And it sounds like those penalties are going to be upheld. Then hours later, Kelly McCrimmon, the general manager along with Tortorella are at the podium in Colorado and McCrimmon began the press conference apologizing for how things played out that night in Anaheim. But he finished it by saying that it sounds like, you know, they are not willing, the team is not willing to discuss Bruce Tassidy's availability till after their playoff run is over. Your reaction to the news out of New York first and what you heard from the podium in Denver. Well, Pat McAfee was the first person to get the news out about the about the about the punishment staying the same. I knew they were meeting at 10 a.m. Tuesday was not a good day for me. I was a little bit slow on things on Tuesday, Kyle. I will be sharper on Wednesday. But on Tuesday, the thing that really had me thinking was the word currently, like currently staying the same. So what that says to me is that there's room for movement here. If if Vegas behaves for lack of a better term, there's some chance that things could change here. And to that point, I actually thought Kelly McCrimmon made a really good statement. Kelly McCrimmon is a tough guy. He backs down from no one. But he knows that he can't come out fire and brimstone in this case. He's got a Game of Thrones style. Bend the knee. Sometimes you've got to take the L. And I thought he came out with, for the most part, a pretty good statement. He came out, he said, you know, we take responsibility. That's never going to happen again. And the there's two other things to it that I really liked. Number one, he talked about the lost opportunity for the fans of the Vegas Golden Knights, and most of them probably don't care. I would guess by some of the DMs I got while all this was going on. Most of them probably don't care, but it's always good to mention your fans. And the other thing he did, which I really liked, was he said, do not blame our media relations staff for this. Vegas has a couple of really young, up and coming good media people. And I like the fact that and look, like Kelly McCrimmon, he runs the show there. Like he's, you know, he's got a, he's got a very powerful place in that organization. And I like the fact that he made sure nobody went to them. Cause this wasn't on them. I like that. I think that there are a lot of good media relations people in this league. And like many of you understand the poop flows downhill. And a lot of those media relations people, they get into fights, whether it's above them or with the media, and it's stuff they don't always control. And I really liked that he mentioned that on their behalf. I thought that was very good. You know, we'll see. Like I heard that, like I heard the league is not too anxious to ease that draft pick thing. And it goes to what we talked about, Kyle, was it was the refusal. He didn't address this, which is fine. But the refusal to wear the mic. And I think the league would have looked soft a bit if they would have taken that draft penalty away. And I don't think it would have resonated with the teams if they did. And right now, I don't think they have really any desire to fool around with that. We'll see what the future says. But right now that's got everyone's attention. And so, you know, at that part of the statement, I got no problem with, I thought it was well handled. And I'm assuming there will be no issues and we all move on forever and ever and ever. Amen. The Bruce Cassidy thing, that was interesting. That was interesting because McCrimmon there had an opportunity to end it all. He could have said, look, we're not doing it. We're not doing it. And he did. He punted. He punted until the end of the playoffs. A couple of weeks ago on this pod, I said that sometimes I think media campaigns for certain people or certain situations can really hurt. Because I think, you know, sometimes teams or individuals will look at is this one is trying to use the media to get what they want. Or I'll tell you too, I know of one situation recently where there was a lot of criticism and the people making a decision, they really dug it. They were like, oh yeah, you guys think this is all wrong? Well, I don't care. And we're going to prove that we're right and you're wrong. And like I said, like Vegas, you know, Kelly McCrimmon, he backs down from nobody. Anyone who's ever watched any of old George McPhee's fight tapes know that he doesn't back down from anybody. And William Foley, the owner of the team, he certainly doesn't back down from anybody. So as all this was going on, I began to wonder if they were taking so much criticism that they would just say, oh yeah, well, too bad. So that's why I was curious about his answer. Like a lot of people were like, and I understand this, a lot of people were like, hey, you're not doing anything, even though you're playing, you can just take 15 minutes to say yes. But they also could have said absolutely not, which is kind of the feeling that's been conveyed over the past couple of days. Like I have heard they are adamant they were not letting Edmonton or LA talk to Cassidy. I don't know about Toronto. I really don't. Slight dissertation. Something else too, Kyle. I asked if Cassidy could terminate his contract. Like we've seen Alexander Texier terminate his deal with the Blues and go sign with the Canadians. I was told no, he can't do that. And I've also wondered if there's any kind of legal route he could take. I don't know. I don't know the answer. I'm just really curious here, Kyle, because they could have said, you know what, we're putting it into it, we're not doing it. And they didn't. So it makes me wonder if there's another path here. Or, you know, we can't make trades anymore, right? Like someone joked to me when the punishment was upheld today, Edmonton should offer Vegas a second round. No, technically, you're not supposed to do that anymore. I don't know. Is there some way to fiddle around that? I have no idea. Like could you make a nut? People don't run with this. This is just me spitballing my brain full of bad ideas. Could you make another trade with Vegas? And then as a silent handshake of that deal, you can talk to Cassidy. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. But it's just, it's interesting to me that they, they could have said we're not doing it and they didn't. They punted. Although again, Kyle, the word around the last couple of days is that Vegas was not going to allow it to happen. We'll see if it changes. Now, one thing, Kyle, I never like to talk about something without proposing a solution. And I don't know. It won't solve this particular case unnecessarily. But it could solve this in the future. For a coach's contract to solve this, should they be able to negotiate straight buyouts similar to college coaches instead of continuing to pay an offset when you get a new job? He told me that that's what college coaches do. You leave, you pay a certain amount, you get fired, you get paid a certain amount. It changes depending on the number of years left. And then you can go work somewhere else. Maybe that's the answer. Just wanted to present it. See what people have to say. Well, just say that makes a lot more sense than the situation we're looking at right here. Yes. So we had a few thought line submissions about those two things you brought up. A, could Cassidy terminate his deal? And could there be some sort of wink, wink, nudge, nudge trade that gets this taken care of? So our listeners once again, in tune with how your brain works, which is a very scary thought. Very scary. So the answer to A, I'm told no to B. Who knows? I guess we'll find out. You know, I was on the radio the other day on the hockey central show with Marquesian Futa. And I said, somebody told me that this is tied into, they gave Peter DeBoer permission to go to Dallas after they fired him. And, you know, Vegas beat them the first time they played. But then in 2024, Dallas beat Vegas in the first round of the playoffs. And they were like, we're never doing that again. And I said, I don't know if I believe that. And I'll tell you, Kyle, I got a couple of calls from people saying, you better start believing that. Because they think that's right in the middle of all this. So, because you've said, you know, the sentiment is you better have a darn good reason to not allow permission for a team to speak to a coach that you fired. I mean, is that considered a good reason? Like we're afraid that that coach beats us in the playoffs. It's a great follow up, Kyle, because I did say it, but I did say it, but I think it's gone even farther than that. I think it's simply contract law that if Vegas has him for another year and they, they just write. And as long as they continue paying him his contract, which they plan to do, they can say no. And I'll say, like, I don't really want to talk about this too much more. I think most of it's been said, we'll see where this goes. But I just have a personal hatred of that because in our business, Kyle, our business has a lot of non-competes. And I've seen people's careers really get hurt by it. You know, you're forced to go into the dark, maybe you get paid. But when you're like, I don't think this would happen to Bruce Cassidy, but I've seen it happen in the media business where you disappear for a year and maybe you get paid. But you're kind of out of sight and out of mind. And Kyle, there's a number of good people that you and I both know all around the business, different cities, different companies who have been hurt by that. And it just personally bothers me. It just does. I totally with you. So last question I have on this, because the NHL Coaches Association put out a statement here as well. I mean, did they have any real power to intervene here? How does that body play into things? I don't know. I don't know that they do. I think you have to stand by your coaches. I guess the only thing is, is if there's some, you know, one of the things that someone said to me. I mentioned this on Stauffer's show. I have a friend who's a lawyer and he called me about this and he was curious about it. Like he says, do you think Edmonton would offer him a big contract? And I said, yeah, I think they absolutely would. And he was just musing. Could Cassidy say that this move has cost him X amount of dollars in the future? It's a significant amount. But, you know, he said, as he said to me, for every one lawyer who will tell you, yes, there'll be another lawyer can tell you, no, it simply comes down to, do people want to try and find out? I don't know the answer to this question. I just think that basically what Kelly McCormick told us is that if there's going to be any movement on this, it's going to be after they're done. Okay, so we'll continue to wait on the fate of Bruce Cassidy and whether he will or won't get the opportunity to talk to certain teams at some point in this off season about a job next year in the NHL once again. Speaking of coaches, so News Out of New Jersey, Sheldon Keefe staying put with the Devils. And that was after a season of disappointing year for the team. A lot of uncertainty you felt around it. Tom Fitzgerald was out. Sonny Medezin is the new general manager. It felt like kind of everything was on the table in terms of what they were going to do going forward. Were you surprised at all that Sheldon remains behind the bench? Not hugely. So at our gym, again with the unbelievable gym stories, there are people there who make fun of me because I take my cell phone into the steam room with me. Yeah, rightfully so. And well, today I proved why I do it. Oh, you got the news on that when you were in the steam room. I had a good, I had a good, I had a good Schvitz going. It was really pouring off me. I felt great. And the best part about it was... That visual sink in everybody. And then continue to listen. The best part about it was I walked out and I guess there's some people who have my notifications that come to their phones. And they, I walked out of the steam room and a couple of them saw me and they were like, did you just report that from in there? And I said, now you know why I take my phone in there. Do you go, are you like Chandler Bingstiles? You go in there with your glasses going fogged up and you're like trying to see on your phone? No, I don't wear my glasses into the into the steam room. No. Gosh, that's, I still, I know you got a job to do, but follow it in the steamer. So that's the reason I take it in there. Anyway, was I surprised? Not hugely. Number one, I think, first of all, I think Sheldon Keefe, I think is a good coach. I think that, you know, he's gone in there and it's taken a lot of those guys time to get used to him. But also I think that, you know, Keith, I don't think Kyle Dubis and Sonny Mehta are exactly the same. I think that would be doing a disservice to both of them. But I do think they have some of similarities in the way they think. And, you know, Sheldon Keefe has shown that he's not afraid of working with someone who places heavy emphasis in analytics. And I think it makes sense to try it and see if it works. I think the other thing too is, you know, they made a couple of changes. Rogalski, the goalie coach and Sergey Briehlian. And let me just say about Sergey Briehlian, and I can't say this enough, just one of the absolute nice great people in the game. I have a lot of time for Sergey Briehlian. But if you take a look at Sheldon Keefe's staff when he first got there, Rogalski was there, Briehlian was there, and he brought Shaw and Culliton in with him at different points. So now I think we can see a situation where Keefe has full input on his staff for the first time. And so, I mean, what it does is it says, OK, now Sheldon, you've got everybody here you want. And it's all, like, there's no, hey, I didn't have this guy or I didn't have this guy or our philosophies didn't align. They're all together. And I do think Keefe is a good coach. I think it's been a rocky start for him with the Devils, but I don't think it's impossible that he fixes it. They have some, they're going to have some interest. I'm very curious to see what this team does in the offseason because I think there's a lot of ability there. And I think they're better than they showed this year. So just a quick story about coaches and embracing analytics. So during the Montreal Buffalo series, one of the rights holder chats that we'll have. So, you know, in the morning, the coaches will do their press conferences for all the assembled media there that, you know, you see online and on TV or on radio or what have you. And then the coaches go and do a separate chat with the rights holders from TV and radio, the broadcasters that are doing the game that is not recorded. But, you know, there's some time, some information that comes out of that that is helpful to be used on the broadcast. Anyways, so one of the mornings with Lindy Ruff, he starts talking about certain analytic information that he likes or that he's brought up to his team. And I think it was Darren paying that all of a sudden you can imagine, you know, Lindy Ruff talking about analytics and he's going, what do you mean you're into analytics? And so he just told a story that I guess he was talking about. I can't remember which exact stat he was presenting to the team. And I think it was Jordan Greenway that was like, since when are you someone who embraces analytics? And he goes, ever since I used to help prove a point. So I thought even even a guy like Lindy Ruff, who's been around forever, you know, anybody's capable of incorporating that data when it serves a purpose. It's not just the new wavecoaches. I think everyone's aware of it. A guy like Lindy Ruff included. Look, man, I would look for every edge I can. If there's something there that can help me win, I'm all for it. DJ Smith, is he going to chance at staying in LA full time, depending on what happens there? Yes, I've been told not to discount his chances. He's over with Team Canada right now at the World Championships. And somebody said to me, you are making a mistake if you discount his chance to stay. All right. And before we get to the final thought and set up our conference final matchups, anything new to report in Toronto's head coach search? No, I think it's still really early there. I think they're starting to reach out and set up interviews. Like I said, I don't know that they've actually asked to speak to Cassidy, but I still think they're in their bit again. I also heard that, you know, Chris Knoblock, I'm not so sure he's going to be too quick to jump back into all of this either. I think, you know, he's collecting some money. He's probably in a little bit of shock. He's got he's got some time here. OK, another thing to Boone Jenner, Captain of Blue Jackets needs a new contract. Charlie Coyle recently signed a big extension in Columbus. Sounds like things could be not on a great path right now between player and team. What's your read there? Well, so Aaron Portsland reported on Tuesday that he fired his long time agent, Joe Resnick, and replaced him with Pat Morris. And you don't hire Pat Morris when you're looking for a discount. Put it that way. And so I don't think it is hugely coincidental either that it happens a week after Charlie Coyle signs a thirty six million dollar extension. And I could be proven to be wrong. It has happened before, but. It's a bad sign for where things are going between Boone Jenner and Columbus. Because if things were going well in that negotiation, you don't make the agent change, right? So it says to me that he there's probably a little bit of disappointment. And you know what? I think everybody has to be careful about how this is handled. Number one, Charlie Coyle was the number one free agent out there, the number one center out there. And he had a really good year for Columbus. And he was in a position where he really had the hammer. And I think the other key thing here is that, you know, Charlie Coyle, you know, you look at his games played over the last few years. And it's 82, 83 the year before because he got traded. So you got that extra game, 82, 82, 82. And that's an important thing. If you can stay healthy, that matters. And that's one of the reasons I think they were willing to take a bit of an extra risk at age 34. Jenner, nobody is ever going to question his heart, his willingness or his love for the blue jackets. He's a career blue jacket. He's their captain there, but he's been hurt a lot and awful lot. And I would bet without knowing, I would bet that Columbus's offers to Jenner are much more of hedged against his health than what they would be doing for Coyle. And when I read that, it was a good scoop from Aaron. But when I read that on Tuesday morning, I said, that's a really bad sign for Jenner and Columbus. And I know there's a lot of blue jackets fans who really love Jenner. At the very least, you're looking at that and you're thinking, you better be prepared for the possibility that he's not going to be in Columbus. It sounds to me like there's a lot of work there to keep him. And Jenner feels whatever he's being offered is not, is not anything he's willing to accept. I hate to hear that. And that's the only place. Still six weeks. So there's a long time. Yeah. The only place he is, he's known as an NHL player, Boon Jenner and the Columbus blue jackets. Okay, let's get to the final five, which is presented by your Canadian Toyota dealers. Elliott later tonight, game one of the Western Conference final from Denver, the Avalanche and Golden Knights, the last two teams in the West to win the Stanley Cup, Colorado and 22 Vegas the following year in 2023. Two teams that still believe they are very much as good as the teams that won back then and trying to get back to the final in 2026. This feels like another heavyweight bout in the West, Elliott, even if you want to favor Colorado by a bit. What's your feeling on this series heading into the opener? I'm looking forward to watching it. You and I are, well, you're in Carolina and I'm headed to Carolina. By the way, you have to do a peach cobbler scouting report on Wednesday. Kyle is the peach cobbler back. I already told Mike Sunheim, the long, the long time media relations guru of the Carolina Hurricanes that I am turning around and leaving if there is no peach cobbler in the press meal on Thursday. But yes, yes, the early indications are not promising for you, Elliott, but we'll see. I just canceled my ticket. Just saved sports debts of money. Yes. No, but you've got to come down here because we need a photo of you and Logan Stankhoven, the OG Stank and the New Stank. I've had a few people calling me that lately. It's starting to catch on, unfortunately. That's a shame. I love it. I know it's one of your greatest victories. Anyway, I'm really looking forward to watching this series. I think it's going to be awesome. I think it's going to be great hockey. One thing I remember was 2021, Vegas plays Colorado. And that was the second round, right? Kyle, that year? Yes. 21. Okay. Second round. And Colorado won the first two games and I was exchanging some tax with one of the players on Vegas. And, you know, he just said to me, like, we're going to win this series. I was like, you don't disagree with a player even when they're down to nothing. And I was like, okay. And he said, I can tell you don't believe me, but we are still going to beat them. And they did. They won four in a row. And I think this Vegas team comes in, like Colorado is a superpower. They lost one game, but they've been excellent. And as they proved in game five against the wild that they, no matter how much you have them down, you don't necessarily kill them. They will come back and they will find ways. And the guy who I've really been unbelievably impressed with has been Nages. Like there was always another level to him. He has gone to that other level. And I think you could argue he's gone to the level even above that. But Vegas will be confident. They will set up a structure that makes it as hard as possible for Colorado to get through them. That's what they do. They're not fast, but they play with great structure and they will be confident. Colorado has to be the favorite in this series. There's a lot of guys on Colorado's team who are playing really well that don't get a lot of the credit. Like McKinnon's playing great. Lannis Gog is playing fantastic. We mentioned Nages. He gets a lot of attention. But like I'm looking at some of their other guys like Brett Kulak. Never mind just the shift he had to win the series. He's been great. It would not surprise me at all if Colorado finds a way to keep him. And all of their forwards, like so many of them, are playing extremely well. Vegas, the one thing that there's a couple of things that concern me for Vegas here. Number one, they've been dynamite at the end of the series. They dominated Utah at the end of their series. They dominated Anaheim at the end of their series. I think they have to do a better job of starting on time, this one. And number two, obviously the stone injury and McCrimmon did not address him. The other day, didn't mention anything about it. The stone injury is so big. I think he's so important because he's one of their best positional defenders and they'll need to continue to be a great positional defending team to win this series. I mean, goaltending Colorado's Wedgwood, Colorado's Wedgwood continues to be great. Heart has only gotten better. I think this is going to be fantastic hockey. As I said the other day, the one thing that concerns me is that clearly McCarr takes a big hit and he's vulnerable. He had a few days to rest. That helps. But there's something there that they're dealing with and Vegas will be physical. You know, one of the Vegas guys, I was looking at some of their underlying numbers. One of my favorite players there has had really bad underlying these numbers and these playoffs. And that's Keegan Colasar. Like I think he's a really good player. Hasn't had a great year, but he's a guy like he will be all over the Colorado defense on the forecheck. Like he'll be a guy that they will say make life physically tough on McCarr, who's a bit vulnerable. And I think Colasar in that role can make a big difference in this series. I just think that again, I think Colorado is the favorite. I think they got so many players playing unbelievably well. I just Vegas is structurally and tactically they have what it takes. Obviously, LA was not in the same league. That's number one. Number two, Minnesota tried to basically outscore them. They couldn't do that. Vegas is good enough and structured enough that they could make this hard. And I think everybody is just looking forward to what could be a great series. I think it was Corey Massesack was on with Marquesian Fuda earlier this week, teeing up this one. And he referred to Landisgog as like the fixer. Like he's kind of like Bednar has been able to put him in certain spots and things just get taken care of. And we all know the presence and how he can calm things down in the room. But you think is Colorado has gone for tried to make deep playoff runs in the years since they won in 2022. Like now to have him back healthy played most of the year, of course, not just coming in, trying to get on a running treadmill. And that's been really wonderful of an asset. And you think about how deep Colorado was even when they were missing them. Throughout these playoffs, he's only further cemented how great of a value piece that he is. And the other thing too, like I saw, you know, Mike Kelly was putting out just some numbers on certain key guys in the series. We talked about Tomasz Herdle and a guy that of course had such a just confusingly difficult second half of the year, a tough Olympics. Finally, he gets going a bit offensively towards the end of the Anaheim series. But he's really even beyond just the goal starting to go in for him has been a real handful around the net. And like that's going to be, I think a big key for Vegas is trying to get into those tough areas, especially as you say, you know, Macarra isn't feeling 100% and to just try to put the pressure on whoever's in net for Colorado. Because doesn't it feel like for the Avalanche, it's like you play good, you start. And if one guy falters, then the swap happens. It seems like that's kind of where they're at with their with their goal tending at the stage. Can't disagree with any of that. Right. So yeah, I can't wait to watch. That's going to be a fun, fun series. So great, great theater shaping up in the West. Meanwhile, yes, beginning here on Raleigh, Elliott, the Eastern Conference final. First of all, thank you to both the Canadians and the Sabres for giving us an incredible game seven in a series. It featured a lot of blowouts and not so dramatic endings to games. What an incredible ending to this series on Monday night at Keybank Center, a heartbreaker for Buffalo. And we're going to get more into kind of debriefing the Sabres year. And as someone pointed out to you, we forgot to give Anaheim its due after a really great season for them and getting back to playoffs. So we will get to those two teams on Friday's pod. That's the plan for that. But for Montreal, I do want to one thing about Buffalo, I do want to mention is I think it's in Lindy Ruff's hands. If he wants to come back and I would have decided to your deal, right? Yeah, I would expect that he's going to. Yes. But he's that's the one thing that's pretty clear. It's it's his call. OK, all right. Yeah, because he's certainly seemed re-energized by what they were able to pull off this year and one shot away. Yeah, what a what a great season after 14 years away from from the playoffs. But two straight game sevens, Elliott. So you've got the team that has faced the maximum in these playoffs in Montreal versus the team that has faced the minimum in Carolina with back to back sweeps in getting to the third round. It's been an impressive run for the Canadians. And what they've done is the youngest team in these playoffs. It feels like the climb only gets steeper starting in Carolina on Thursday night. It sure does. You know, Carolina, everybody knows they've been waiting there for a long time. It's it's a record amount of time. Rod Brindamore has his players on the hamster wheels that. Charge the electricity and Raleigh Durham for the last week so they can physically ready to play this game. That's right. That's that's the one positive to come out of all of this. All the residents here, they haven't they haven't had a hydro bill for the last 12 days. The players have been powering the triangle. That's right. I gotta tell you, Svetchnikov, he can power a whole city block. Aho, that guy can do an entire office building. Twenty seven floors. Okay. The one thing I'd say about Montreal is. In the playoffs, you don't have to apologize for your victories. I really thought in game seven. They were holding on for dear life for a good chunk of it. But I give Dobish a lot of credit. It was very clear that they told Dobish. Like one of the things one of the goalie said to me in the league, Kyle, was that Dobish. It's not only that they thought he might be tired and he told you he was definitely not tired. Nah, but more. Forty more. But he but the goalie said that he expands a lot of energy, like just fighting with opponents. Right. And being emotional during games, physically and emotionally fighting with them. In game seven, he did none of that. Like he got run over by Zucker and he kept his composure. And I really thought not only just the saves he made in the fact that he was Montreal's number one player in this game, but basically he had the discipline to change his approach. It wasn't like a gradual thing where he could do it over two or three games. They were like, no, you need to do this tonight. We need you to do this tonight so we can advance. And he understood the assignment and he did the assignment. That is so hard to do. Think about it, everyone. You're wired a certain way for so long and your team tells you tonight you can't do that and you do it. Didn't slip. Did he slap Zucker in the face? No, it was Nick Suzuki. That was cheeky. So that was cheeky. So I was, I mean, I was really impressed with him and, you know, it's this is going to be a big challenge for him. I mean, you know, the one thing too is I really thought that there were times when the Canadians man to man really broke down. I think that Carolina's ability, especially because they play the same system, that's going to challenge Montreal even more. I just think that Carolina is so big and so strong and they're even more balanced than Buffalo was. Like we saw the Greenway line have some physical moments in that series, but they didn't play a lot. In Carolina, everybody plays. And I think, I think you said right. I think it's an enormous challenge for the Canadians. And, you know, I think the thing too is that you got to hope that you can take one early in the series because the Hurricanes are dopey. There's something about Brindlemore and how he knows the human body that lets me say that if anybody is going to prevent his team from being dopey, after being off for a week and a half, it's going to be him. It's going to be Rod the Bod. And I just Montreal is so impressive that they've won these two rounds. They've had a really hard road. Tampa was a great team. Buffalo was a great team. They had to win two games, sevens on the road and they gutted their way through both of them. Lopsided the other way. So much respect for this team. I just think this is okay. First, they had to climb Terry Fox Mountain. Then they had to climb Kilimanjaro. Now this is like Everest, man. That's it just gets higher and higher and higher. Someone's going to say to me, it can't be Everest because there's one more round. Just give me this one, people. Okay. But that game seven, what a great hockey game. What an incredible, incredible hockey game that was. You know, there was a lot of controversy. You know, for those of you who didn't see us talk about the intermission, people were wondering if the Sabres could have challenged the DeNo goal. No, but that's an automatic league review. They review every goal and they say, did that answer the net? I thought that was the right goal. I thought that was a direction. I've seen Pucks that were much more distinct kicking motions count. I thought based on the way I've seen it called this year, I thought that was the right call. There were Sabres fans at the end of the game that were really angry about the puck that got behind. Doobish that Malenstein knocked in. I tried to get the puck to the right goal. I tried to explain the rule to them. There was no consoling them. They weren't rude. They were just mad. They were disappointed. The one thing is if Malenstein didn't touch that puck and it went in and there was, there was nothing he could do. Like it's totally instinctive play. It looked like it was stopping. But if he doesn't touch it and it goes in, there's a chance that goal counts. If the referee has a what you think is a quick whistle. If the puck goes in directly without anyone else touching it, it can count. But I don't know about you, Kyle. I looked at it today. I didn't realize it in the moment, but they thought it would have been goalie interference because Greenway puts a stick through Doobish's legs while the puck is underneath them. So someone said to me that even if they counted a good goal, that one might have been overturned. I don't know if you saw it. Well, I thought I saw in the mall. I can't remember if it was Jonette or McCauley. Like even right away, one of their initial reactions kind of did the motion of Greenway to say like, no, like he jabbed at it. Like they had recognized it right away. But of course, you know, the fact that the whistle had gone and Malenstein swiped it in himself, you know, kind of erases the need for for the conversation around that. But it just seemed like they had seen that live. So I wouldn't have been surprised if in an alternate universe, that goal initially had counted that suddenly now there was a challenge coming from Montreal. I agree. So we'll talk more about the Sabres on Friday's pod, Kyle. But the one thing I wanted to say about them is that, you know, Marten San Luis had a line the other day about the toughest thing about your season ending is that you so badly want to get back to this, but you have to play 82 games first before you get there. And I think the best lesson the Sabres will learn and we will hear from them again. You know, I know there were some people this year. I told everybody I voted I voted Dallin as my Norse trophy winner. I don't think anybody is questioning that anymore after two rounds of the playoffs. I thought he was phenomenal. And I think they have a lot of great players there for a long time. And Benson took another step and we'll talk more about this in a couple of days. But I think the one thing that will stick with Buffalo is that they will look back at this series and they will say. The Canadians didn't beat us. We beat ourselves. Like we had moments in this series where we hurt ourselves. And like you heard Tage Thompson say it, going into overtime, we thought we were in great shape. And they, the Buffalo Sabres left that series thinking they were the better team and their own mistakes cost them that. And that will be the best motivation that that group of players will have going into next year. Is that they are going to say last year we have regrets this year. We will look in the mirror and say we might have knocked ourselves out. That won't happen again. You know, the other thing too, Kyle was the room opened and there were only two players in there. There was Dallin who was sitting there waiting for everybody as the captain. You know, Thompson eventually came out. Luke and eventually came out. I give him credit. He faced the music on a weird kind of goal that beat him. Yeah. He was very emotional. You could tell his eyes were red. He'd been crying. Who was sitting there in his uniform still? Who was the last guy in his uniform? Alex Tuck. Yeah. And nobody bothered him. Everybody left him alone. And I don't like to overly read into things like that. But, you know, I don't have my tarot cards out to tell me what that meant. But it was striking. You know, he was sitting there as the last guy in his uniform. And you know what? I have no insight whatsoever, which everybody knows about me is true. But I still think the savers and Tuck want to find a way to make this work out. I'm good. Because I mean, anyway, yeah, we'll get into that more on Friday, but I know it was a really tough series for him, production wise. But coming off an incredible series against Boston. So do you completely reverse course after one tough series? I don't know. I don't know if that answer should be, should be yes for someone who, if he in fact wants to remain a buffalo. Yeah, it's, it'll be interesting conversation to have. Let me just say this about that. Okay. The one thing, look, he didn't have a great series. We all know it. Okay. I thought in the last couple of games, like he made the one mistake on the back check in game three and he showed up instead, that's on me and I will be better. You have, when you're, when you're Alex Tuck, you have to score. You have to. I did think that he played hard the last few games. I thought he was much better defensively. The one thing I'll say is this, you got here with him. Yeah. It's still hard to get here. I think Yarmul Kekelanin is a pretty smart guy. And like, I'll give you an example of one of the things I've heard. Whenever, whenever a new GM comes into a team, everybody thinks that everyone's getting fired. Right? New GM is going to come in there and clears out everybody because he wants his people there. Right? I have heard that the Sabres, that one of the things that Kekelanin told his staff is that you have drafted extremely well. Like you take a look at what they've got there. Benson, Hellenius, Oceland, you know, they, they, everybody's got injuries now, but they, they really missed him in this series. You know, Rasmus D'Ali, and obviously they hit that one out of the park. You know, people are down on UPL right now, but they drafted him. And like, I think whenever, so that says to me that Kekelanin came in with an open mind. He sees what they've done and he's like, you know what? There's smart people here. Smart people here. So that leads me to believe, I mean, I'm sure he's got a line for Tuck, but it's, he knows he got this far with Tuck. And if you throw him out simply because of this series, that's not smart decision making. If you think he won't bend to, if you think he's unwilling to take a deal or go, he will, he's making you go farther than you want to go. That's one thing, but you don't throw him out because of one bad series after he was a major reason you got this far. That's bad thinking. Yeah, I'm totally with you on that one. And then just on this series between Montreal and Carolina, I mean, we watched game six and from the second period on a game seven, when Buffalo was in that, we'll call it the JFG mode, it gave Montreal a lot of problems. And you think about how Carolina plays all the time. It is very much that way. They swarm, they smother, they are relentless. So if Montreal is not prepared for it, if they don't have their fastball, as Martin Saint-Louis put it, in terms of what really cost them in game six in particular, it could be a very long but short series for the Canadians. But this is a team that has grown up right before our very eyes, Elliott, and has gotten over hurdles that we weren't certain they were capable of doing at this stage of where they're at as a team. So rule them out at your own wish. But I've still got hopes that this could be a very compelling series yet here too, despite how steep of a climb it'll be for the young upstart Canadians. I'm with you. I hope so too. Okay, that was the final thought presented by your Canadian Toyota dealers. Why don't we take our first break? When we come back, we'll do a brand new edition of the Thought Line. 32 Thoughts the podcast continues after this. Okay, welcome back. Time for another edition of the Thought Line, Elliott. We've got a few things we have to address from last pod, but first, I'm sure you have some shout outs to get to. You know, Kyle, first, I wanted to begin this part of the podcast by recognizing Robert Irving, the owner of the Monkton Wildcats, who passed away at the age of 71 this week. Yeah. Hockaday in Canada this year was in Monkton. We do an annual banquet every year on the Thursday. And it was interesting because we didn't know if he was going to be in attendance. And one of the things I was told I'd done an event earlier in the day was some of the people who worked with Robert Irving in his office. And we were talking about how to dress up for the banquet. And they asked me, are you going to wear a tie? And I said, no, I don't plan on it. And I said, are you going to wear a tie? And this person said to me, we are waiting for Mr Irving to let us know if we have to wear ties or not. And I said, oh yeah. And he goes, oh yeah. But they talked reverentially about him as the owner of the Wildcats and what an unbelievable job he did. So I know that organization is in mourning today and I wanted to send them all the best. Did have a chance to meet him briefly last year. I also wanted to shout out for a different and personal reason, which I won't get into here. But you know, I was busy doing something on Tuesday in Toronto and I needed permission from the McDonald's store at Bathurst and Fisherville in North York. And the manager there with her name was Claire. And I just had to ask her to do something and just what a nice, polite, friendly, helpful lady. And she has no idea who I am. But if anybody from corporate McDonald's listens to this, I want you to know that Claire, who runs your franchise at Bathurst and Fisherville, is an absolute awesome person. Okay, Kyle, do you want to guess what the most responses I received were about the last pod we did? Oh, I'm going to guess because I may have got some of it too. Did it have to do with the siblings? Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, we kind of blew it. Yes. Now, I have an excuse. I still have PTSD from calling swimming at the Rio Olympics in 2016. So that's why I forgot Jamie and Penny Alexiak. As far as I am concerned, swimming at the 2016 Olympics never happened. So I've forgotten for great run. I think that's only the second time I've ever made a joke about it. But yes, that was an absolute enormous, enormous miss that we missed the Alexiaks. And there were a lot of you who wrote in about it, including the great Sherry Ross and Dave Isaac, who formerly covered the Philadelphia Flyers and is a regular listener to this podcast. But there were many, many more of you. There were a number of other good ones. A few people brought up Tyler Myers and Quentin Grimes. Yes. They, of course, are half brothers. And someone mentioned to me that they're probably the highest paid duo. And I looked it up this year. Tyler Myers made $2.9 million in cash. And Quentin Grimes, who plays for the Philadelphia 76ers, he made $8.7 million. So if anybody made more than $11.6 million, please let me know. There's a listener of this pod. Her name is Jenna. She's a big sports fan. She also brought up Arthur Kaleev and Elvina Kaleva. And everybody knows who Arthur is. Elvina Kaleva is a tennis player. I actually looked her up. She played a match, a qualifying match the other day at the French Open. Unfortunately, she was defeated. But Kaleva is a member of the women's tennis tour. You look like you want to say something. No, no, no. But I just, well, remember we brought up Kaleev using a thicker knob on a stick because he grew up in a tennis family. So. Oh, that's right. Very good call. And she also brought up Macklin and Charlize Celebrini. Hmm. And Charlize is 17 years old. And she is a tennis player as well. On the ITF Junior rankings, as of May 18th, she's ranked 270th. So thank you, Jenna, for pointing those out. There was also the suggestion for Phil and Amanda Kessel. That's obviously, you should have mentioned them too, not different sports, but obviously two great hockey players. Well, yeah, that's why we didn't, because they're both play hockey. Right. But you know what? I just wanted to mention it. I got a couple of really good ones here, by the way, the guy mentioned to me a couple of really good notes. Uh, first of all, hey, Elliot, this is a person named Jojo who sent this to me. Hey, Elliot, just listening to the most recent episode, you and Kyle were talking about Ben and Lacey Kindle, both playing professional sports. And I thought you guys would like to know that the athleticism in the Kindle family doesn't stop there. I play ball hockey with his uncle Paul in the Okanagan. He definitely isn't as skilled as Ben, but he's got some great hockey IQ. And more importantly, he's the beer guy in the locker room. Oh, nice. I argue, Paul, that that is the most important skill of all. And Todd Smith, you brought up, I brought up the Triple Lindy. Yes. You brought up the Into Deep music video by Sum41. Yeah. Todd Smith wrote in and said, the Into Deep music video is a parody of that movie. Yeah. And so the funny thing was after we were done recording, you sent Domini the video clip from the movie back to school. Yes. And I'm watching the diving routine from Rodney Dangerfield and I'm like, oh my gosh, that's where it's from. Yes. Steve, at the end of the music video, he does the Triple Lindy. Yes. Wins them the diving competition in the music video. I like you so many times during the trivia question, backwards, summer salted, into tying it all together. I had no idea in the moment. There did I. He said he called it the unintentional bridging of the generations. I'm born in 1990 and I have seen back to school a classic and grew up on music videos. Crazy to think how many listeners didn't know either reference. I sure didn't. We had a lot of Kevin on the last pod and there was a listener named Melanie who wrote in and said, what the heck is Kevin going to all inclusives in between games? What's with all the bracelets? Yes. He doesn't let he when he gets a bracelet from somewhere, he just keeps it on until it like falls off. I also wanted to shout out Tom McDonald. Tom McDonald gave me a hat. He has he was wearing a tragically hip hat and I saw it and he puts his favorite song on the back and he gave me the hat. I didn't want to take it from him because he had it with wheat kings, which is obviously one of his favorite songs and he wouldn't take it back from me. He put it in my hand. He wouldn't take it back and I just wanted to say thank you Tom and the hats he puts together, they're fantastic. I wanted to do some shout outs. Jack Knox, I met at the Sabres game. His grandfather was Seymour Knox, one of the beloved owners of the Buffalo Sabres. I met a gentleman named Andrew and his wife, Rye. They came up from Florida, they're Devils fans, but they came up to watch Game 7 of Sabres Canadians and the next night they were going to see Game 1 of the Eastern Conference final and the NBA between the Knicks and the Cavaliers, which Tom tells me the Knicks came back to win in overtime. Really nice people. Andrew, big pod listener. I think he owns some bars and restaurants there in Cocoa Beach, which I've been to before, but they made a big sports trip out of it. Jake, who gave me a beer sabre that I used for my NHL network hit before the game. Oh, I saw that. Yeah, that was very good. Yes, Ali, who was the security guard outside our set, protecting David Amber from all his adoring fans. Very nice guy, worked at Sabres games for a long time. The Benson family, there were some of his grandparents were at the game. Super nice people. Dave was actually working out in the gym with a couple of Benson's grandparents and he said they were throwing the weights around. In there, that they were, as you could imagine, Zach, pretty tough guy. You can see he comes by it honestly, according to Dave, seeing them work out. There were just a ton of great fans I met and just so many awesome people at the Sabres game. Yeah, I also wanted to shout out so in the first round, I was covering Montreal Tampa, I reached out to Marshall Hame at Cornell University because I was looking for photos of Jim Crozier who played goal at Cornell late 80s and early 90s. His son, Max Crozier, is a member of the Lightning and Marshall is kind enough to find some photos in the archives of his dad. And anyway, so Marshall mentions when we're going back and forth an email that he grew up in Buffalo and watched Hockey Night in Canada all the time as a kid with his dad. Fast forward to Game 7 in Buffalo Monday night, I meet his father, Mike, who is an off ice official that works at Game 8. Oh, I heard about this guy. He was looking for you. Yes, yeah. So I was just, we were almost ready to leave the building and he stopped me just out in front of our little studio space in the hallway. And yeah, he explained that his son as it was Marshall that helped me out at Cornell. So the Hame family from Buffalo, great people, do great work both in university athletics and the NHL and just wanted to shout both of them out and great meeting one over email and the other one in person the other night. It was really cool how that all came together. That's outstanding. All right, hit me with the questions. We're going to start with this, Elliott, from Dexter. I thought you guys might enjoy this. Habs fan living in Paris, France. Watch every Montreal playoff game while on a call to my parents in Vancouver. They are Habs fans who met in Montreal in the late 70s. Have been trying hard not to wake up my girlfriend with these games, but game 702 woke her up at 452 AM and she was not happy. Never have I been so happy to be in the doghouse and he attached a screen grab of their text conversation. I will read them out the messages that came from his girlfriend. Tuesday morning in Paris, 452 AM. Dude, did we not have a chat about you being less loud? Come on, this is ridiculous. And then at 453, you literally are screaming and slamming doors. What the hell? That was the last one. All worth it. He had kept himself quiet in the middle of the night through the first six games, could not contain himself after New Hook scored the winner in overtime. Dexter, this is what you do for a man who is an expert at relationships. Yes. Yeah. Hold on. Is there someone on the line we don't know of yet? A special guest? This is what you do. Go on. Deep down, she understands. She knows how much. You don't need to grovel, but you do need to give a nice repentance. That's it. Do something nice. It's all good. She gets it. What a concept. Thank you for your expertise. There you go. Get her a gift. I'm happy for you. No, no, no. Doesn't have to be a gift. Just do something nice. All right. All right. Something doesn't have to be big, but surprisingly unexpected and all is forgotten. Good. Dexter, good luck. My advice column will be open next week. 32 roses. All right. Just one other one we'll get to here. Hey, Dom and Kyle. What? This is from Neil. Yeah. That's what it says. Love the show. Had a debate with my dad and friends. And he says, Islanders, Jets and Bruins fans. So we are definitely biased toward elite goal 10. About roster construction and goalie contracts during these playoffs. Do you think paying a goalie 8 mil plus is still worth it in today's NHL? A lot of the teams still playing seem to be getting great results from goalies making under 3 million and the cap savings seem to help build deeper lineups overall. As fans of teams with top end goalies, we obviously see the value of having a Sorokin, a Hellebuck or Swamen level player, but does the cap era make it smarter to invest more heavily in depth and trust systems slash playoff variants in net? Curious whether you think the league is trending towards quote, good enough, goal 10ing plus depth or if true elite goalies are still worth paying premium money to build around. PS, a Winnipeg fan from NYC. Let's grab a beer and Winnipeg for the heritage classic. You got it. First of all, Neil, no, you know who you're getting a beer from? From Kyle and Dom. They're the only ones. I would normally pay for it, but it's not happening because he didn't say hi to me. I am personally offended. You know, it's interesting, Neil. I see this. You know who says that teams don't have that kind of goalie that's worth paying 8 or 9 million dollars. Yes. I thought the exact same thing. You take a look, Neil, like honestly, Eastern Conference, before this, look at the last five years. Babrosky, $10 million goalie, Babrosky, $10 million goalie, Babrosky, $10 million goalie, and Vasilevsky, who's at what, nine and a half. So the last five before this year were two guys who combined me just under $20 million. Yes. And it's always, I feel with this conversation, it's very recency biased, right? Like to your point, the last two Stanley Cup finals, you look at the goalie matchup, like where you're leaning towards. What do you think is more valuable? Yup. Right? And now we just happen to have a final four where there isn't a Sorokin or a Vasilevsky or a Babrosky or a Halibuck in the mix. And now the conversation swings the other way of going, well, do you really need that? Do you take the cap savings and spend it elsewhere to further deepen your team? I'm totally with you. It's all about how your team is built to start. Let me just say this. I'll clarify. Vasilevsky, the first year they won, he was making three and a half. Yes. But the last, but the next two years, they won one and they lost one. He was at nine and a half. So it's three years of $10 million with Babrosky, two years of nine and a half Vasilevsky, and one year of three and a half Vasilevsky. So I think it just comes down to Neil, do you have a guy who you want to pay that money to? Yes. And certainly with where things are headed, cap wise that we know, I mean, an $8 million goalie two years ago is different than an $8 million goalie next season in terms of how much space that is eating up as quickly, that ceiling level is jumping. Neil, thanks very much for that submission and that'll do it. For the latest addition of the thought line, you can write in an email, 32 thoughts at sportsnet.ca, or you can send in a voicemail, 1-833-311-3232. We'll take one final break and wrap up this edition of the pod. On the other side, you're listening to 32 thoughts. All right, just one final reminder of game one of the Western Conference final later tonight and where you can find it for listeners in Canada Hockey Central Pregame Show on Sportsnet at 730 Eastern, 430 Pacific Time, Ron McClain, and the gang. However, we should point out as Elliot teased, I don't know if it was last pod or last week. Anyway, they're all starting to mesh together at this point. Jake Allen, a goaltender with the New Jersey Devils who has done a wonderful job the last couple of playoffs. Coming on the panel at certain points of the playoffs with us, he is back tonight and Thursday night as well in studio. So really look forward to hearing Jake's perspective on things, especially when Montreal gets going. Of course, they are the early years of that rebuild and eventually getting to where they are now back in a conference final for the first time since 2021. So Jake Allen will be in studio tonight and setting up game one between Vegas and Colorado a little after 8 Eastern on Sportsnet and CBC. John Barlett, Gary Galli, Sean McKenzie is our commentator crew from ball arena in Denver. That'll be Wednesday night Thursday night. Of course, Montreal, Carolina, 8 Eastern as well. Conference finals begins as we are halfway through the Stanley Cup playoff marathon. Until Friday, have yourselves a great couple of days. We'll talk to you then.