"My Husband Destroyed Our Finances, Should I Leave Him?"

brought to you by the every dollar app start budgeting for free today normal is broken common sense is weird so we're here to help you transform your life from the ramsey network in the fair winds credit union studio this is the ramsey show i'm dav ramsey rachel cruise ramsey personality number one best author my daughter is my co-host today thank you for joining us elissa is in indianapolis merry christmas elissa merry christmas what's up i have a question my husband has basically ruined us financially and i'm at a breaking point where i need to know if we need to file bankruptcy if i should take over the bills if i do how to start because i never have done them or if i should just walk away because i'm just overwhelmed and i can't take all the phone calls and all the stuff that's going on like i'm to the point where either i'm going to leave him or file bankruptcy or i need help i don't know so do you know what is going on like how much debt you have um i would say probably close to 30 to 50 000 in debt i'm not certain exactly how much like i said he has always done the bills but my breaking point was last year when he got my car repowed i looked out the window i get my money goes in the bank account every week from our pay my paycheck and my car was being repowed and um he panicked and had his mother cosign the car was in my name so he ruined my credit and he had his mother cosign well now his mother has cosigned on a vehicle for me and that was a year ago correct why did you not get involved in the two of you sit down where you knew what the flip was going on from that point forward why'd you still stand back i tried i tried to get involved for a little while we had everything written down what was going in or what was going out i was telling him we need to pay this bill we need to pay this bill and it slipped away for me when my kids were in bull season and i was gone six days a week till 10 o'clock at night and i just assumed he was doing what we planned and i let go again and then now his mother is contacting me like the car payments one day late pay it today like it has to be pay on the day it's due and i'm like i i'm so done we talked about this a year ago what is going on okay so it's more alissa that he he says he's going to do something and he doesn't and do you know where you guys are like when you're you say you were 30 to 50 thousand dollars in debt have you had him pull his credit report pull your credit report silly see is he lying on that and because i'm just wondering if he's not going through with that he's yeah i don't think he's lying on that and i'm assuming that's what it is because i know basically about what's coming out and what's due i just don't know when he pays it and if he pays it i think he's gotten so behind that it everything's going to wait and is it what's he say is he saying why why is he late um he just says that the money's not there like but what i don't understand is he gets he works 50 to 80 hours a week and what i don't understand is why you're still sitting on the sidelines and haven't gotten involved i like i said i really good at standing back and rocks at him and you have no idea when all you got to do is walk in there and sit down with him and the two of you get out of yellow pad and figure this out i i've tried i'm no you haven't you i had balls six days a week bull crap your households falling apart kids can't go to ball if the households falling apart you sit down get out of yellow pad and the two of you work on it i agree so why haven't you done that because i don't know where to start i've never done the bills so i don't know i want you to take them over i want the two of you to sit down and figure out where it's going because it's pretty simple you both have an income coming in and in your mind it's not we don't think he's wasting it it sounds like there's not enough money coming in to pay the bills doesn't it? it does sound like that so i don't know that your husband has ruined your finances i think the two of you have ruined your finances okay no i don't think you need to divorce him poor guy and he's trying to carry this whole thing by himself and he doesn't know what he's doing either you're both lost and so yeah you guys have got and there's obviously a level of broken trust if your husband says he's going to do something and he doesn't though and doesn't say hey this car payment can't be paid we have no money i need help right if he's just taking over and not bringing her in at all but again listen you have to be the one doing it too you may have to be the one pushing the buttons you may have to be the one that actually is paying the car payment and is paying the bills for a season so in the interview you guys separate from this whole situation who would we say that the detail oriented person is him or you? i would say it would be me yeah your underword or his fault is his isn't correct he's so busy working it's not that he's a bad person what's he working on? he's working at the job 50 to 60 hours a week okay so what does he make he probably makes about 120,000 a year okay so number one thing is we need to take probably out of the equation by the before the sun goes down you need to know what your husband makes exactly okay what do you make i make about 32,000 a year okay so we have let's pretend that that's correct and we have 152,000 a year to work with then let's start spending that the first thing we buy is food each month the second thing we buy is lights and water and those are all paid on time there's no reason they can't be paid on time how much is your house payment it's i think around 1500 okay no thinking anymore you need to know okay not around by the end of the day you're gonna know it's 1532 dollars and 46 freaking cents you need to know exactly because you can't blame anybody else anymore the two of you together have both got to put your feet on this together not throwing rocks at each other and join hands join arms and fight the battle the battle is not inside your house the battle's outside your house and the two of you need to fight the enemy together okay so we're gonna pay the house payment exactly 1532 dollars and 46 cents and what is your car payment with the freaking mother-in-law i have to estimate because i don't know i think it's like 750 good lord okay and what is this car it's a minivan okay how many kids have you got have four but my daughter's deceased so i have three living okay alright and so we need to find out exactly what the car payment is exactly what the house payment is we've got we got the money to pay the house payment the car payment and with 152 thousand dollars to work with give or take we have the money to pay the bills that we've listed so far and by and by groceries you don't have the money to eat out you don't have the money to do travel ball you don't have the money to do any of that stuff yet right now all we're doing is just trying to keep the bills paid because the stress level is so high that everything's melting down and we've got to stop that okay so this is how you're gonna do it you're just gonna simply walk through it the two of you together we'll put you into every dollar and we'll put you with a rimsy coach and get somebody to help you and hold your hand and walk you through this but i don't think this guy's done anything wrong uh any more than you have both of you just threw your hands up and said Jesus take the wheel and then you're shocked that the car went in the ditch and so you've got to grab the wheel hold on to it and both of you go i just hired you for 152 thousand dollars and i'm gonna pay you to straighten your mess up and you're gonna get your life back hey guys it's open enrollment time for health insurance and if you have ever felt overwhelmed trying to figure out your health care costs you are not alone for a lot of families health care is one of the biggest line items in the budget and it gets more confusing every year but you don't have to settle christian health care ministries is a biblical and budget friendly alternative to health insurance and i am proud to recommend them with chm you are joining a community of believers who actually help share each other's medical bills yeah it's true members have shared over 12 billion dollars in health care costs since chm started nearly 45 years ago and it's simple you choose your provider with no network limits you submit your eligible bills online and other members help share your expenses chm has program options for every stage of life whether you're single self-employed or raising a family y'all open enrollment has a lot of people scrambling right now but chm lets you join anytime so go to chministries.org slash budget to check them out that's chministries.org slash budget when you are in crisis with your money here's what you do take four steps back you're too close and you can't see the forest for the trees meaning you got you have a tree branch stuck in your nose and you can't see past it and then the drama builds up in your head and you spin out and when you spin out you are of no value for critical thinking because when you drop into lizard brain fight or flight mode which is where our last caller was that means you've slipped everything into the front side of your brain and there's no critical thinking skills there and cleaning up a financial mess ascertaining where the financial mess came from so that it doesn't come back is a critical thinking process so it requires that you take a deep breath take a cold shower two steps back and start going okay I'm going to pretend someone hired me to talk to these people and these people happen to be me and I'm going to start walking that through then the first thing you do is you make sure that the family has money for food not restaurants food restaurants aren't food restaurants are entertainment food and that the family has the lights and the water and the gas bill paid the heat is on 99.9% of the situations you have the money to do those two things when you are warm and fed your brain works better you can calm down when you're warm and fed and you know that you are not going to be homeless because the next step is you pay the rent or the house payment on time or early almost everyone has the money to do those three things then we start getting to transportation so when the dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was in the eighth grade we took a class called civics and in civics they taught you the difference between needs and wants and the basics of life are food shelter clothing transportation and utilities you take care of those things food shelter clothing you got enough clothing shut up transportation and utilities so the lights are on the food is on the table we have a car to go to work we keep the income coming in now the rest of it is a monopoly game that we might be losing but it's not life or death and we all have this little drama queen in our head that spins out and turns us into drama queens and we turn everything into life or death and it's not life or death but we turn it into that I do it you do it well and when you watch your car being repowed outside like that's not fun right I mean like you know there's reasons for it and the mother in law is calling you there's all these things happening but still okay that's transportation but why was the car payment not pay when they make $150,000 a year and you can't say for two years this has been going on and I'm standing on the sidelines only griping about it no you get your hands in the mess you reach up to your elbows in the mess and the two of you together and it's not I'm going to take over the bills it's like he can't do this for whatever reason or won't do it by himself and so we got to work together yes and I'll just say what goes on in my head when I listen to her is I mean the compassion I go I you know you get on which is great and I'm like oh gosh is this everything okay but I tell myself if the reverse called which does happen and there's a spouse calling and saying I have been trying to do this we don't have enough money here I can't keep my head above water and I go where's your husband where's your wife I don't know she won't be engaged in it we would yell at the spouse that's not on the phone do you know what I'm saying so to that point both have to be involved right and so I think this whole idea of just putting it all on one person though is unfair to that person the way it's not all on her and it's not all on him that's right that's right and so I mean here's the thing when the Ramesses went broke I was 28 years old Rachel was a brand new baby when we filed bankruptcy 100% of it was my fault I was doing real estate deals that Sharon hadn't even seen I wasn't hiding them from her she's just like whatever you want to do honey and I did and I built a house of cards and it fell and you know from that day forward she's been involved and from that at my request and demand command that she's involved so that we have two sets of eyes looking at everything because we're not I'm not going to do this by myself anymore and we're not going to make huge mammoth decisions that affect our lives and you can't stand on the sideline then and say what would you do you dummy you know so I mean it's a couple dummies working together here so we're going to figure this out right so and so you've got to work together you have to come clean you have to then you when you lay out your plan you have to do it and you can't there's let me tell you no excuses before your car gets repowed before you are about to leave your husband and file bankruptcy you don't go to the ballpark they're not even on the same planet okay like there's cancer we have to take care of the cancer patient and take the ballpark sorry you know our life is imploding yes this is you know and you can't use that as a hide mechanism well he works all the time bull crap come home put on a pot of coffee and sit up till two in the morning get this stuff together figure out where you is and that's what you've got to do and I'm not fussing at her I'm just saying I am fussing at her a little bit but not right now I was earlier but the thing is when you've got this stuff right in front of you this is the way you handle it you go right down from food and you take it apart and as you click off these things every time you okay I don't have to worry about food one level of peace comes in and the anxiety and the freak out starts to leave okay I don't have to worry about lights another level of peace comes in I don't have to worry about being homeless another level of peace comes in no repo man in my driveway and you get down to we're four months behind on a student loan which they're gonna do nothing so what okay you get down to where the stuff that is really behind or is really you know if you do the right things first yes by the time you get down to the other things you know it's almost laughable how much of you've gotten rid of 95% of your stress and you're in agreement and you're executing yep and we're doing it together so no one should be doing this by themselves when you're married period especially in a crisis especially in a crisis and I would say you know a crisis like what they just what she just explained is we usually say you know if one person wants to go and actually like log into the account pay the bill that's great a crisis like that I'd say both of you need to be sitting down at the computer and together on the computer yes I mean seriously so that you know that it's done because when you know that it's done it's not necessarily that I don't trust the other person it's that when I know that it's done I can sleep that's right yes and I don't have to be in drama queen mode well in any case where there was lack of payment and so that caused repercussions for a season there is a building of trust right and then exactly and then a year later if it's like we are good we've done this and done this and done this and then this now we develop the plan together and someone can execute it that's right right but only after after it's there's competency yes yes totally so when we're teaching leadership we teach people you can delegate when there's competency and integrity so they're not lying about it and they actually know how to freaking do it yeah okay and so it reminds me that all of this a little bit when you were on Oprah back in the day and there was a couple and you were like you know there was a money that was it was like a mishandling of money he didn't know that they had $80,000 in debt that she had run out that's right right and you said you need to apologize to her because you were present you know all that you weren't involved but it is it's a it's the it's the mentality switch that both spouses have a level of responsibility now if the other one doesn't keep their word and on and on now we have a marital issue that we really have to face which is true yeah but until that point both yes both have a say and both need to be sitting down and doing this both have a responsibility to do it music music music music music Dave we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens one day someone's healthy they're working providing for their family and then a curveball hits you know we hear it all the time there's a car accident a cancer diagnosis a heart attack and suddenly everything changes yeah and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens yeah that's right you need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage no gimmicks no whole life junk just straightforward term life protection but there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long term disability insurance yeah it's important to understand the difference between them life insurance steps in when you die disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work so it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet now if your employer gives you free disability insurance great take it if it's discounted there at a better price take it but if not zander can help you find the right plan whether you're single or married it's not optional if you're going to be out of work for a while then you need to make sure the money still showing up and that's why zander is our go to they make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price no pressure no upselling I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander insurance for over 25 years and so is my family so don't wait it's fast it's easy and they could make all the difference go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282 protect yourself protect your income protect your family music music music music music if you feel like you're always starting from scratch with your money well trust me you're not alone it's not because you aren't disciplined and it's not because you're inconsistent it's because you're emotionally overwhelmed we were kind of just talking about that and when the frustration or fear build up you can say well I'll put it off or I'll not deal with it but you got to deal with it that's not managing your money this is emotional survival mode you're stuck because you're ignoring the emotions jade washaw in her new book what no one tells you about money it comes out in January it's in presale right now does a great job putting together a clear guided process that helps you diagnose the emotion and then what to do with it and how to work through and actually become sane again about dealing with your money because she and Sam went through hell and so she's the person with the experience not with an opinion right so practical not academic this is a great book pre-order right now for 24.99 you get over a hundred dollars in free bonus items the enhanced audio book the early access to the e-book the instant access to an exclusive video your financial checkup with jade exclusive three-week online book club with live Q&A with jade this is a lot of jade and jade is helpful in this area so pre-order today at ramseysolutions.com slash store and you're going to love this book I guarantee it alright brayden is in Phoenix hey brayden what's up better than I deserve how can I help I was given a rental property that's been nothing but a headache and I'm just wondering if I should allow the thing to take it I'm sorry how do you how are you given a rental property that has a mortgage I worked for a company that did flips and they kind of gave me it I was young and I didn't know what I was doing and so I just basically took over the debt they covered the down payment and it's racked up some credit card debt as well okay so what is owed on the house 519,000 but you did not get the mortgage the mortgage is in my name it was the down payment was good to me oh so if you give it back to them they're going to foreclose on you and sue your butt you understand that right yes sir that would not be a good plan sir what's the house worth I had it listed at 540 and it wouldn't sell so I would guess 500,000 I overpaid for it hoody yeah shock and um how old are you I am 21 so these flippers are these tiktok morons aren't they um yeah he was like my mentor and I called him my best friend at one point but he was just a little older than I was yeah friends like that who needs enemies okay oh man I'm sorry sir um yeah who do you owe the money to what kind of a mortgage is it FHA, VA, conventional, bank loan what is it it's a conventional mortgage okay are you able to make the house payment Braden are you able to make the house payment with your current on it I am not so I'm actually like 60 days to the link went right now um I am self employed I made $25,000 last month and so I put that into a credit card payments instead of paying the so it's a rental property right now so I have renters in it um with renters in it I lose $1,500 a month yeah okay um okay so your only thing that you can do with your rent is to do what's called a short sale have you ever heard that phrase yes sir as I work in real estate I know a lot about it I've talked to a lot of people who have suggested that okay do you actually know how to execute a short sale sir yes I know someone who that's all they do they're an agent here in town okay all right would they be willing to help you yes but they said not with tenants in place and my tenants lease is until March well I think you call your tenants up and say hey guys the house is getting foreclosed on so you may want to find a new place you may want to find a new place it's only three months it was yeah the the biggest issue is it was leased through my mom's Airbnb account and so I was afraid it was going to hit that and destroy her Airbnb business as well yeah man y'all just stacked stupid on top of stupid didn't you man I'll tell you I'm sorry I've done I've done worse that's what I'm just feel bad for you it's like because every time I bring something up there's another hook in it right so um yeah so uh if I'm in your shoes I quit paying the payments and I run the renters off okay okay as best I can I mean league I mean just by telling them hey guys it's gonna get foreclosed on you may want to look for a place to live and they'll probably up and leave well and I'll let you out of the lease because I don't want you to get hurt if you want to go if you want to go early I'll understand yeah all right and then quit paying the payments and then start the short sale I um if your friend won't help you while the tenants are in place go to RamseySolutions.com and they'll get a Ramsey trusted agent that knows how to do short sales and they'll help you okay the tenants don't have to be gone for you to begin to negotiate a short sale it just makes it easier to show the house well and if you're in that world Brayden you should have you should know a lot of people you said a lot of people have suggested this I'm sure there's a lot of re-liters that you know that you know I mean a Ramsey trusted agent I would feel good about just because I know the type of people they are but yeah I mean finding someone should be relatively easy basically the short sale is is you get an offer on the property that is net lower than the actual balance and you submit that to the mortgage company and they realize having done an appraisal that they're not going to get any more than that after they foreclose on you so they take that and you are looking for and you remember this phrase without recourse yes sir because that means they don't come out and another and they don't come out for you for the difference okay yes another thing on top of that is the old boss he paid his best friend to cosign for me so he's kind of scared and going downhill with me so he's kind of pressured me into paying the payments previously but I just told him I'm done yeah well tell him talk to your old boss yeah who set this up you didn't talk him into doing it the other guy did and he did it that's the stupid thing about cosigning he yeah so let me ask you this okay you cosign for a 21 year old who's overpaying for a piece of property and then you're shocked that you get stung okay I'm saying put together by a bunch of flippers yeah this is a good way to get screwed and so yeah I'm so sorry you're going through this the great news is is that when you're the other side of it you will have learned several lessons if you learn them and you need to write them out I'll tell you what some of them are never cosign never accept a cosign never buy a piece of property with nothing down don't borrow up to your eyeballs and expect a piece of real estate to work it doesn't work it doesn't cash flow there's no possible way there's nothing down tiktok crap works it's a the math doesn't work business either Braden don't fall your mom's footsteps quit looking for all the get rich quick stuff every one of these things is going to get rich quick stuff but write down okay I don't need partners I don't need cosigners and I don't need favors from friends who aren't really friends who help me buy something that I overpay for and overborrow on and trap me in and so you know I one of my lessons is I never cosign that's one of the things I learned when I was just a little bit older than you and I went broke and one of the lessons I learned is I don't have the only ship that won't sales a partnership I'm not in partners with anybody period one of the lessons I learned is I don't borrow money anymore period the borrower slave to the lender and boy don't you feel that right now man gosh I'm so sorry Braden but a short sale is your way out cleaning out the tenants is part of that program doesn't it's not necessarily start it but I would start it I would get it on the market and get an offer that you can take to the mortgage company and have them accept a reduced payout on the mortgage a call to short sale without recourse if they don't say without recourse they're going to sue you for the difference as if they had foreclosed on you and Braden you're a go getter you're doing stuff at 21 but this real estate the real estate world there's so many traps of what we just laid out earlier in the call what Dave was saying so remember those okay it's going to be really easy to get sucked into a deal that feels so great remember these principles and it's going to be a more boring ride but a safer ride for you music music music music the last thing you need this holiday season is more stuff collecting dust or tech that keeps you glued to screens and up too late you need better sleep and that's what you'll get with Casper their mattresses are made for deep uninterrupted rest that keep you cool and comfortable so you wake up feeling ready not wrecked because rest is not a luxury it's an investment and the ROI is your well-being so go to Casper.com slash Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey for 25% off mattresses and 10% off everything else you get free shipping too that's Casper.com slash Ramsey promo code Ramsey exclusions apply music music music music Amanda is in Salt Lake City. Hi Amanda how are you fine how are you? Better than I deserve what's up I'm calling because my father passed away about a year ago and assigned me to be the executive of his estate but like you he had some rough times financially early on but persevered and he ended up doing really well in his life and he also tried to be generous my mother has never been super interested in finances and is now dealing with the very early stages of dementia before he passed my dad mentioned that he had been helping to pay for his aunt's nursing home costs we don't know that side of the family very well and I think that's why I'm calling for a visit and these descendants at the funeral but each month $2,100 of her care is paid by someone on her side and then $2,660 is paid by my mother well each year the cost of the care goes up and we just received notice that it will be going up by $500 this next year and so I told my mom in passing that and I was surprised to hear that she didn't want to absorb the extra $500 she wants to continue to pay $2,660 and have aunt D's descendants pick up the rest I can see why that makes sense as far as fairness goes but the thing is my mom is set for life she's able to absorb the entire annual costs of the nursing home and it wouldn't change one aspect of her life What is the net worth now? How much money does your mom have? It's over $5 million So this is not a math issue this is an emotion issue Yeah I definitely think it's an emotion issue So did your dad dictate this in the will or in the instructions other than verbally to you? No there's nothing in writing it's only verbally so I just wanted to find out about it. Have you found out about it before he passed? Yes he didn't tell me anything about his finances until about two days before he died and then he was just like talk talk talk and I just took a bunch of notes Oh my gosh. Okay and when he was talking and you took notes he said to do what regarding the nursing home? He said I've been taking I've been helping with aunt Dina's cost and that's all he said I'll just continue to do that she's very old Does her family and her family's paying $2,100 of it? That's right. Would $500 be a burden to them do you feel like? I mean I don't know but I assume so they all they have blue collar jobs and yeah and you're frustrated because you're like mom you could spend a couple grand and it's all done you know the extra $500 right So in the spirit of the thing it's you're pretty sure it's what your dad would do but and you're still in charge of it the estate has not been closed out? No there's a lot. Okay how long and he passed a year ago Yes. Okay so you're still managing what really is your mother's affairs on behalf of your dad's estate Yes and I probably will for the rest of her life because how does she? She's only 75 she has the beginnings of dementia. Yeah but that's different than you being the executrix of your dad's estate you understand that's now becoming her power of attorney. Which I also have Okay. Okay. So the lines are blurred between when you drop off doing the estate and start managing her affairs. Exactly. Yeah. So if you've crossed over into managing her affairs you would have to do it at her behest if you're still managing his affairs you would do what he wanted so what do you think it is? Well that's what I'm calling you. I don't know I can't tell you're saying the estate is still open. Why is it still open? Well he had one main business in about 12 other small little businesses and the main business is taking care of and I am slowly working through the 12 smaller ones closing some of them and some of them are ongoing concerns. Okay. Sigh I guess it's just really a matter of relationship with your ailing mother is really what it comes down to because it's not a math thing and it's not a bad thing to do. So let's say you play it out both ways. Let's say okay we're going to put the other $500 in mom it's what dad would want and it doesn't affect you and I feel like we need to do this so I'm going to go ahead and do it. Then what's her reaction? Oh I think she'd be unhappy but I think she would also forget about it. Yeah okay. And then the other way is obviously you could play it out and say I'm not going to do it because mom doesn't want to do it and you let the other people know and you know they struggle through the next few years while this lady lives. Right. Well is there a way that you can help me kind of maybe talk her through generosity? Yeah I mean I in this case I would just I would put it on your dad. I would just say mom I really feel like dad told me to take care of this and it doesn't affect you. You're okay. You won't even know mom. It's not because of the math. We could pay ten times this and you would still never know it. So it's not it's pretty much like buying a biscuit mom. I mean you can afford a biscuit and we're going to give this lady a biscuit because that's what dad wanted to do and you're going to be okay. And it's not going to be much longer probably either right. I'm doing this for dad. Okay and you would do it for dad. If he was here it's what would have happened mom and you'd still been okay then okay. And so I don't know if you're going to get her to be generous on this. She's like you said she's kind and then she's going to forget it. So yeah I think you do it and you just tell her why you're doing it gently kindly and we're not going to have an argument about this. It's just a fact. You're not doing this because this is what dad would have done. If dad was here he would have done it and you would have been okay. I'm here. I'm doing it for him because it's what he would have done and you're going to be okay mom. I'm going to make sure you're okay mom. This is not going to affect you at all mom. I promise you got plenty of money. You're going to be okay and it's doing a good thing for somebody and somebody's going to be okay. And I think you just do it. It took me a minute to get there. I'm going to figure out what your moral obligation is. But it's really a relational thing. From the generosity point it's hard to teach somebody generosity when it's forced and they don't want to do it. The spirit of generosity is finding something that they love. They get to plug into and it's fun for them. That's part of learning the generosity. So trying to force generosity, teaching generosity in this I don't think is the way to go either. I'm going to make you give your money away. That's not generosity. You're right. That's a good point. Oh my goodness. It's a good question Amanda though. That's hard. When the lines are blurred are you the executor of an estate or are you helping manage your mom's estate? The estate's still open and she's still paying the bills from the estate. Really mom doesn't get a vote. Yeah. Technically speaking. She is the executor and she's in good shape to make that decision. You can ask your attorney to be sure. Neither one of us are attorneys but I'm pretty sure that's what they're going to tell you. And morally and ethically that's where you stand for sure. One more time folks. We're coming up on the Christmas season, the New Year season. It's when people take stock of things. This is when you jump on Zanderinsurance.com Make sure you have the right amount of term insurance in place. This is when you go to Mama Bear Legal Forms.com and get your will in place. And this is when you write out stuff like this. I have a very detailed estate plan and about this time last year your mother said, but what would I do with all that collection of so and so? Because it's just a collection of so and so. Like your skis or so. Stuff like my guns. Okay. I don't need all them guns. And what am I going to do with all them guns? All your skis. All your water skis too. Yeah. Well, important things. She's like I'll just give them away and I'm like you can do whatever you want. She said well I would like some instructions from you. Oh, that's fair. So I wrote out here's what you do with this collection. And here's how you distribute it. And here's who you call to get rid of it. And so on. And you know, make sure the kids get some of this and the grandkids get some of that. And then in the rest of it, you know, you can just get rid of it. And that's fine. She wanted the clarification. This is a minor thing that was not in the actual will that Amanda's dealing with. But it was a verbal thing three days before he passed. That's what I was going to say. A gift to give your grown kids is to sit down and do this. Yes. And not on your death bed. Literally. You know, just starting to talk. I mean, it causes all this just to be the grieving process. All of it's so much smoother. Good reminder. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey guys, it's George Kamel and I've got a hot tip to save you some serious cash this holiday season. Shop Aldi first. Aldi has everything you need for holiday get togethers. 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I'm going to get some good deals. Music Music Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality number one best selling author and my daughter is my co-host Kelly's in Salt Lake City. Hi Kelly, how are you? I'm good. I'm nervous actually if I'm being honest. That's okay. How can we help? Just a little bit of background. We're debt free. We have money in investments and we have money where we can contribute and give to people. Last summer we came across, or this past summer we came across an international student who needed some help. She had lost her support. We have started helping her and our goal for her is to help her get a degree so that generations can change with that. That's our dream there. But on several instances she's been irresponsible, ungrateful, and at times kind of fudging the truth. So my question is, what are fair expectations to put on an international student? I guess we have three. How many chances do we give her? And when does our help start being enabling instead of empowering? And we're just basically putting our money down the drain because she doesn't have the skills to get a degree and to function. Is she here in the States Kelly or is she in her own? She is here. Okay. And what do you mean by fudging the truth? She's lying. Well she's lying. But about what? What she's doing with the money or like other things in life? No, so like for example, one of the examples is she said she had insurance and we got her into a junior college and when she got down there they said her insurance wasn't great and that the school had better insurance. So they just put that on our tab without talking to us. Well she didn't come and say guess what, my insurance isn't good enough. You're going to be paying $700 for that. That's one of the examples. Another example is that we were paying for her to take the TOEFL, the English proficiency test and she didn't pass the first three times. It's a $300 test. And so for the fourth time I said listen why don't we get you an online class? Do you have time for that? Can you do this? She said yes I will do it, I promise. And when we got on to cancel the membership she hadn't done one question. And on top of that when we went to the test the fourth time she didn't even bring her passport so that was money down the drain. And so it feels like she's not studying, she's not appreciating the effort. Yeah, we're putting in more effort than she is. You're wanting this more for her than she wants for herself is what it sounds like. And we feel stuck now because we feel like if we take back we've added some extra things we want her to do so that she has some more skin in the game. But if we decide this isn't working for us it feels like now we're the bad guys and she has to go back to her home. So we feel kind of stuck here. But we don't want to waste our money either. Well I don't do, I'll choose disappointment before I'll choose violating principles. And you're you would not tolerate this out of any other situation. The only reason you're still in this game is you're guilted into it. And guilt, choosing guilt over resentment is what Dr. John Deloni always says too. You're resenting her, you're starting to resent her. Yeah, oh for sure. Yeah, I'm just, I'm going to pick a number and I'm going to let her know that at the end of that number that our support won't end and that gives her a little bit of an off-ramp instead of just a sudden end to it today. In other words some severance pay if you will. So how much have you put into this so far? We've put in about 12,000. Okay, over what period of time? Six months. Okay. And so if you put in, if you put in 3,000 more, that would give her a few months to get some, we're going to budget $3,000 more and after that our, our support on this is ending. We'll be cheering for you though. Yeah, exactly. So we, we kept giving her excuses basically, you know, she's fragile, she's stressed, she's been through a lot type thing. And just a couple days ago we sent her a written note, we expect these things to give her just one more chance because we want to feel like we've done all we can. She's got to start school again next January. So we would, with that we'd have to pay for housing, tuition books, all of those things. And so we have this list and I'm inclined to say you need to do these things but if she doesn't do one perfectly, do we say that's it, this is your last semester? I think this is her last semester. Okay. You're done. You will keep, keep paying in for that. I haven't talked, there's no joy in this at all. No. It's all regret. It's all, I wished I had, if I had it to do over, I wouldn't do it. Hello. Yeah. If I knew then what I know now. Right? And so we don't, we don't continue. We don't continue. How much is it, okay, is it a community college you said Kelly, she's in? It's a junior college, yeah. Okay. So what is this semester in housing going to cost you? It will cost $1,100. Okay. Total. Yeah, it's too bad. Yeah. Over the whole semester. Like I said, I would budget like $3,000. So we're going to cover this and we're going to give you this amount of money and our support is ending at that point. Sorry. Okay. No more chances. It's not a, it's not a chance. It's not, it's not a, this didn't work. We tried to do this and it was not something that we're, it's not something that we're participating in anymore. Okay. I don't know. It's not a, and there's not a big corrective, we're not going to make a big speech, okay, about all these things and because it is, it just is what it is. Okay. And so you've, you've tried to do corrective things and they didn't work. Yeah. You mentioned several of them. Okay. So I'll give you an example. All right. When someone that is working here at Ramsey, we've got 1100 folks is not working out. They're, they're, they're not competent or they've got a behavior issue or something. We sit down with them and say, look, this is a problem. We got to fix this and I'll walk with you while we fix it and, but if we don't fix it, it's going to be a thing. And then we sit down again and then we sit down again and then we sit down again and then we say, okay, you have 30 days and during that time if you, you know, there's a zero tolerance, you're going to be not doing this behavior anymore. Okay. And if they do it again, then we don't even wait the end of the 30 days as soon as they do that. The next morning we sit down and that conversation when they leave is one minute. We've already had all the conversations. That conversation is simply the decision has been made that today's your last day at Ramsey. Okay. That's about it. And then we, you know, wrap up all the key fobs and the computers and the cell phones, that stuff, right? But I mean, it's administrative at that point, but we're not going to, we're not doing a corrective, you know, if you had just done this, no, we're not doing all that. It's just your last day. It's just to today's your last day. That's simple. Because if you had done all this, that was in the 90 days previous. You've already passed all that. You're done. You already know the power of generosity and the best gifts make an impact now and eternally. That's what pre-born does. And you can trust them to do it well. They don't just offer free ultrasounds. They support pregnancy clinics across the country with ultrasound machines, training, grants, and evangelism tools. They're faithful with each dollar so moms and crates are able to see the life in their wombs. 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So Y-Refy.com slash Ramsey, that's the letter Y. Today's question comes from Tucker in Wisconsin. My wife and I just started Baby Step 3. Our 10 year old is in dance lessons and so far we have been able to cover the cost. That bill will soon include travel expenses for competitions. My wife wants us to use what we have in the emergency fund to cover the extra expenses. But I'd prefer to save as much as possible to keep cash flowing the cost while making minimum payments on our debt. Our combined income is $150,000. We still have a credit card, but we'll cut it up when Baby Step 3 is completed. Who is correct on how to pay the expenses? Well Tucker, you're not in Baby Step 3 if you're still paying minimum payments on your debt. So you still have debt. So you're not on Baby Step 3. I mean, who's technically correct? And you would be, it's not an emergency. I mean, you guys know that if you're doing a competitive sport that when beginning of season start and when things are due, you know when that's coming. You may not know the exact price tag for it, but you know. You know ahead of time. So it's... Well, you don't know what the cost is. You may not have the exact specific number, but you should know the range and what's happening with the schedules. At least that's how it is with our three kids. I know when we just signed up for soccer this week for this spring and I always know in December it's this. It's, you know, but they kick up the fees a little bit each year, whatever it may look like. So, but it's not, you know it's coming. So that's not, it's not an emergency. And making sure that you guys have the money for it too, because you guys are still on Baby Step 2. You're still trying to pay off this debt. You're not on a Baby Step 3 while you still have a credit card. You need to cut it up right now. And then you're in Baby Step 2 until you get your debts paid off. You shouldn't have anything in the emergency fund except $1,000. And broke people don't travel with 10 year old dance competitions. And you're broke people. It's sad. It's heartbreaking. What is sad? The 10 year old's on 50 minutes. No one will remember this in 10 months. Especially the 10 month though, the 10 year old. Only the angry wife who's living her life through a 10 year old dance competition. So, no. No, this is just, you just don't do this. You just don't. I mean, it's like your family is in jeopardy. You're in debt and you have no money. And we're prioritizing a 10 year old dance competition over that. That's so screwed up. It's not even addressable. Okay, no. There could be a whole hour on youth, sports, kids travel. I mean, it is though. It is. The emotional prioritization of it all. Even if you've got the money. Even if you've got the money, it's a different thing. But, I mean, we had the money. Daniel's playing ice hockey and we figured out pretty quick he's not going to be in the NHL. Well, I'll be tacky and say we have the money but we choose to do rec sports and not travel. That's exactly what I said. You're not going to be in the NHL so I'm not traveling to Atlanta to watch you play a sport that you're not going to play. So, you're going to do it here. And then we're going to go home and have a family and do other stuff. And I'm not paying 25,000 bucks for you to...so you can have a vacation with your 10 year old buddies. No. Sorry. No, not doing it. Which is crazy that, again, that's such a...these days such a controversial take. Do you know what I mean? No, no, no. So easy to stir up a controversy today. No, I know. But I'm just saying the world today, Papa Dave... Common sense is so rare having it is like a superpower. I'm serious though in this year, literally when you talk to parents, D'Loni talks about this too. I know. And it's not a value system. I won't say... No, it's just crazy. But it is this... and a lot of it is fear-based. If they're not doing it in elementary school, they're not going to make a middle school team. If they don't make the middle school team, they're not going to make the high school team. And then they're going to do drugs and they're going to die. Like that's the feeling people have. That's the...I'm telling you the amount of feeling like if they don't get...if they don't start now they're not going to make it. They're not going to do anything. And it's not even worried about college or professional. It really is. People are so concerned about high school when the kids are in third grade. And so they're starting to... If you want to pay for some of this stuff, it's fine. But you need to be not broke. When you're paying for it. You don't need to go on vacation either when you're broke. Don't...don't...you know, don't write in here and say, you know, my wife wants to use the emergency fund to go on a cruise. No, you're broke people. Broke people don't go on cruises. That's dumb. Work your butt off, build up some cash where you're not broke and then go on a cruise. Hello. Then you can actually enjoy the cruise. But just fake it stuff and I'm just going to walk around and act like this isn't going on. I mean, you have debt and you have no money. You're broke people. So act like you're broke when you're broke. And you know, live like no one else and pay a price and then later you can do whatever you want to do. And if then you want to do 10 year old dance competitions, travel, then we can argue about whether that's even wise. But that's a different discussion. Right? Now it's not even on the table to have the discussion. So now and so you're actually both wrong, Tucker. You're not in baby step three. You're not in a baby step. You're still farting around with your credit card acting like you're going to be okay. And so, you know, you're just wandering around over here and then she's over here at dance competitions. So both of you, you're not ready to get out of you're not really doing this stuff yet. You're going to have to get serious about it. Like your freaking life depends on it. Like whether this little girl goes to college, that matters. And the number of girls that go to college on a dance scholarship is precisely close to almost zero. Okay. There's a handful. It's like the number of kids that actually played D1 sports and have a scholarship almost zero as a percentage of those that graduate from high school that played sports. So I mean, and then try leaving college and go to the NFL. Oh, yeah, there's like a 0.1% chance of that. So let's just keep, let's just track this whole thing all the way forward. The chances of you ending up there's really close to zero. So what she'll have is a little trophy and a memory of a three dog night song when she's 30. That's what she's really going to have from the dance competition. Nothing else. Three dog night song. You gotta have an old 70s tune in your dance competition, right? Don't you? Isn't that like a requirement? Oh, man. I think dance competition should have to have an old 70s tune. Poppa Dave is just showing his age. I just think, I think that's possible. Maybe Eagles. I don't know, whatever you want to part. I don't care. But I mean, but this is what it is. It's not. Yes. Yes. Yes. You did cheerleading and competition cheerleading. No, I did not. I did not. I did not. You went to a class. I didn't do competition. You were in a little camp thing one time. Yes. I did. I did a weekly. Okay. A weekly. Yes. At the local. That's different than competition. I know. Competitive. Yes. But we had no illusion that you were going to end up making $10,000 being a tight and cheerleader. What I'm saying though is... What do they make? They make about $10,000 on that. Let me say this. The parents today though, I think is less about them becoming professional athletes and it's more about this, their childhood experiences and them being involved in something and being the best at it so that they can do it in middle school and high school. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like it's a lot about... Really? Yes. Okay. I mean, I'm sure there's some, it's probably the dudes in their sons that are like, he's going to play professional ball. I don't know. But at least for like, most of the people I know, they still do competitive and travel a lot of our friends do. And they know their kid isn't going to make it, but they do it because kind of everyone does it. Like, if you want to play at a competitive level, they all do these like, crazy leagues. I don't know. Whatever everyone does is a yes. I know. I'm just saying though, like, I feel like an outsider. I really do. Like, we're one of the only families that doesn't do... I know. I'm just saying the reality. No, and it's not a pat on Rachel's back. This is, we just don't want to travel for kids sports. And right now, we've, it's a never say never, but for our 10 year old, we are not. As for me and my house. As for me and my house, but it's a real thing though. It's real. And it's not just our area. It's all over. You go to Texas, California, it's crazy. And you don't need to be spending huge amounts of money on children's sports or dance competitions when you're in debt and you're broke. Okay, guys, that's just not smart. And you don't need to buy a boat. So the, because we get so much joy at the lake. No, you're broke people. Don't do this. This is how people just, it's a form of denial and denial is not just a river in Egypt. The holidays are supposed to be joyful, but they can also be expensive between gifts, travel and about it. And you don't have to live that way. Our every dollar budgeting app helps you find extra money every month and build you a personalized plan to beat debt and bill wealth. In just 15 minutes, you'll find thousands and hidden margin. You'll feel like you've got to raise. Don't live normal when you can live like no one else. Start every dollar for free in the app store or Google play. Bree is with us in Virginia. Hi, Bree. How are you? I'm so good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? This is so cool. So my question is my husband lost his job last week. And I think we are finally at the point of being sick and tired of feeling sick and tired of living paycheck to paycheck. I feel like I have a hard time getting my husband to have that same. Dazzle intensity because of how many sacrifices he feels our kids will have to make with the debt paying off process. So how do I get him and I to have that same intensity? What kind of sacrifices is he see it for the kids? So I think it's a little more. To provide a little context, he was a teen dad to kids. We had two kids in high school. The mom's not in the picture and they kind of had a little bit of a tumultuous childhood and showing up until he got full custody. Then I came into the picture and I'm their mom now. And so I think he holds on to a lot of guilt about just their childhood and then try and plan out, you know. How long ago was all that? How long is going to take? He got full custody in 2018. Okay, so seven years. Yeah. In the rearview mirror. And how old are they now? High school? They're 16 and 17. So by the time we get it paid off, we feel like they're going to be out of the house. It's hard to like think about saying no to them now and then they're going to be gone and we have a toddler who I feel like is going to reap the benefits of the decisions we're making now. And it's a lot of guilt for both of us. I would feel guilty if I was financially irresponsible and that was the last message I gave them before they left home. Yeah. We're going to pretend like none of this matters because you're 17 and it was rough when you were 10. And so we're going to spend like we're in Congress and put ourselves deeply in debt and screw up our finances further. Right. As our way of saying sorry, it was tough when you were eight. And that's the gift we're going to give you is model this very poorly for you. Well, that's kind of silly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, Bree, I think there's, I don't know, for him, I'm like, I want him, your husband, to have a level of seeing this. Yeah, there may be some sacrifices. You may not be able to do the trip. But also to remember that, you know, when your kids, just because they are off in college, I know life looks different, but they also are still around. You know, you guys can still go and do things with them. And it's not like parenting just stops at 18, right? I mean, it's like a relationship just ends. It continues on. And I know things look different and all of that and things will change. They're not in the house. But honestly, too, I think, you know, being present with them and them having a dad that's emotionally and spiritually connected to them and time wise is with them. And you know what I mean? Like the relationship aspect is probably what's going to take them a lot further for their future relations. Them admiring their father facing his demons and changing his ways is way more important than him taking them to Disney. Right. Yeah. It just is. I mean, here's the thing. My friend, Andy Andrews said, and I used it a lot when our kids were at home even, that we're not trying to raise great kids. We're trying to raise kids that become great adults. So plug that formula into this situation. And the best gift I can give these two teenagers is a dad who's saying, you know what? I haven't done well with this money thing and I'm going to start right now. And for the last couple of years you're here, you're going to see me doing this right. That's the good news. The bad news is it means we're not going to get to do some things that maybe we would have done when I was irresponsible. So can I ask, how does that look like practically? Like we're not obviously planning any trips to Disney or something like that. But like Christmas and then we have like three birthdays right after Christmas. We didn't cancel Christmas or birthdays. We just didn't buy a new BMW for Christmas. Right. My stepson has to go bowling. Do we say like, that's what I'm trying to round the tent around. What's your household income? He just lost his job Friday. But he has some promise. Like I think he has some good things coming hopefully this week. But I mean it was like $130. And what do you make? I'm part time. I make $20 an hour. I only make $25 an hour a week. Okay. So we have $130,000 household income. Give or take when he lands the new position. How much debt do you guys have? How much debt are you carrying? $29,643. Oh, Bree. Yeah, y'all can do this. So lay out a budget and say there's only this much entertainment. There's only this much. And we're not going out to eat and we're not going on vacation. But we can do a little bit of this. We can do a little bit of that. And we're going to, as a family, we're going to tick off $29,000. We're doing a year. And you guys are going to watch it happen too. Yeah, do it in a year. Yeah. That's what I hope. That's what I'm really hoping. No, it's not. $130 minus 30 is $100. Wow. And after taxes. After taxes, you'll be living on $70 or whatever. Oh, well. I know, but I'm just saying. Yeah. I mean, do it. Yeah. Yeah. But you can't use the excuse of my children are going to suffer because your children are going to suffer more watching a father and mother who are irresponsible. Right. They watch everything we do. They're going to do what you do. More is caught than taught. They're watching you. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, I'm more concerned about that than anything else. Yeah. So, I mean, you guys do what you want to do, but that would be my motivation. And again, the great, and let me say this too. I mean, and again, I think I'm just in the middle of it because we're kind of in the Christmas season with little kids at home. But in even looking back on my childhood, the things that you remember, the memories that you have, the things that actually shape who you are as an adult to what we're saying, that bring you to the workplace, that bring you into a marriage, that bring you as a parent is not the birthday gifts. Right. Like the gifts you give your kids is you and the time that is spent together doing a puzzle even. Right. I mean, it's like, you don't... Well, I mean, I was talking, I was being interviewed this morning on another... It's all the stuff that I think it's a big deal. It really is. I was being interviewed on a radio station this morning and the guy was asking me about this video that's going around about the, what Christmas gift you get last year and the kid doesn't know. Yeah. But what experience. I think I remember every detail about the trip. Well, your sister's 40 and she could not tell you a single gift she got at 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 years old. But she can tell you at 8, 9, 10, 11 years old, 100% of those Christmases at midnight, we were in church lighting candles on Christmas Eve and the kids are asleep in my lap. Falling asleep in a queue. And she can give you that memory and paint it so clearly in HD 30 years later. Yes. I remember mom spilling wax on a lady's coat. In front of us one year when I was probably 6 or 7. Yeah, the candle dripped on a main coat in front of us. Yeah, I mean like, yeah, you do. Those are the, that's like, it's things like that. Yeah. That you remember and that shape where you are. But we don't know what we got for Christmas that year. No. So it's not to say don't buy something for Christmas. No, no. It's just out of control. But it is the mindset and the perspective that I think has gotten so out of act that if we don't do this or buy this for our kids, somehow we're harming them. And what I'm saying is an experience that has to cost nothing is the thing that's going to shape and mold you. And it's the Tuesday nights at home and having a family dinner. Like those are the things that create good healthy adults. Yeah. It's not the crap that you buy. It's really not. And is bowling fun? Yes. Absolutely. Go, you know, take them bowling. But again, even the bowling experience is not the thing that shapes who they are. It's having a dad who is present, who is talking to them, who knows them, is relational. Like those, like literally that is what shapes you as an adult, as a parent. And I think we get so wrapped up in all this buying crap that I'm like, doesn't matter. Yeah. It really doesn't. But it does help me, it always helped me to reframe it to say, I'm not trying to raise great kids. Trying to raise kids that are great adults. It changes the discussion. Who are resilient during hard times. And maybe they have a hard year because they don't get to buy what they want. But that's resilience. They heard the word no. What? We can't say that. That's illegal. Y'all are doing great, Bree, though. To your points, yes, you are starting. If you guys do this, you're changing the trajectory, not only of those teenagers, but that toddler that's in your house too. So yeah, we're cheering you guys on for sure. If you've got collectors breathing down your neck and you're drowning in credit card debt, you don't need another debt relief company trying to sell you sunshine and unicorns. You need real help. And Guardian Litigation Group is the real deal. 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Please review our website terms for more information. David is in Indianapolis. Hi, David. How are you? Good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Long story short, I just checked my statements from my financial advisor last month for the first time in a couple of months. Looking at them, it only looks like I've seen about 7% growth this year and I was wondering if I should fire him and look for someone else. What does he have you invested in, do you know? It's supposed to be aggressive growth, supposedly. As far as the individual funds, I'm not 100% sure on. I just figured this out on Friday. Have you contacted him and asked any questions? I haven't. I did not ask about the retirement. I did contact him to figure out why this is another issue. My deposits I made into my money market account were not being actually used and they were just sitting there not gaining interest either. Oh gosh, you had money in your money market account that he has access to that he's supposed to pull each month money from to invest and he's not done that. There's a couple things wrong with the equation. You probably should fire him but not for the reasons that you're saying. You're griping about the rate of return and you don't even know what the mutual fund is. It's your responsibility to know what that is. Your financial advisor's job is not to babysit you. Their job is to teach you and you make your decisions. And then if you don't like the returns, it's due to your choices. But you don't even know what's going on. You just tossed the money over the fence and hoped he handled it well. And that's a good way to lose everything. So I guess my next question would be, is that something that you would... Is that something... So I paid somewhat close attention to the market, listened to you guys, listened to other financial podcasts. What kind of hope am I still with that seeing that the S&P 500 has grown 14.5% something like that this year? 17, yeah. 17. And you made 7 so something screwed up. Yeah, I agree with you something screwed up. But here's my point. I do not have any mutual funds with my financial advisor that I didn't choose. Not because I'm Dave Ramsey, but because that's what we teach people to do. Your financial advisor's job is to be a teacher and say, here's some things you could do. Here's the historical data on this mutual fund. And it's one I might look at if I were you and you go, yeah, I like that. And I'm going to make the choice to make the purchase based on having been informed. And then if it doesn't perform, I made the choice, not him. And it was just a miss, okay? Because you pick some funds that didn't even keep... If they're aggressive growth, they ought to be outperforming the S&P on... Substantially. Unless there's some kind of... I don't know what you pick, but I mean, you could be in all kinds of sector funds or something else. I don't know what you got into. But I want you to know what you're doing. And so, like, this is the way... You hear these sports figures that lose everything? Like, they make $10 million, then they're broke or something. It's because they turn it over to some guy and go, my guy's handling it and then they don't even look at it. And it turns out, in that case, the guy's a scam artist or whatever. Or he's a doofus, one of the two. I mean, I think the guy just handed you some mutual funds, half looked at him, you half looked at him, and you all chose poorly to what it sounds like. So what I want him to do is to take up a new position if he you're going to keep him, probably wouldn't. And that to be the heart of a teacher. And what I want you to do is not look for a babysitter, but have the heart of a student. And he should be presenting you with these ideas, too, right? This is why you hire someone is to do it and to show you and to give you options. Like, that's what our advisor does. But then you know what it is. Yeah, you know exactly what it is. So I guess that's, you know, what's... My biggest question for him, I guess, would be what's the benefit of paying you when I can open an account on Vanguard Shrotha, whatever, and just throw it in a S&P 500 fund. Yeah, you can go buy a Vanguard S&P and throw it all in there and you'd raise 17%. That's called passive investing. Okay, that's called passive investing. Yeah, well, now what you're paying him to do is not to... is to show you mutual funds that are outperforming the S&P. And then you decide if you think they're going to continue to do that. I buy mutual funds through my investment advisor. There's 8,000 mutual funds. I mean, I grew up in this stuff and I'm not going to comb through all that crap. That'd drive me nuts. Okay, I'm not that big a nerd. So I call him up. I'm like, hey, find me four funds in this category that are outpacing the S&P and because I want to put some money in that area and or in the case of you follow the Ramsey recommendations for your 401k, put a fourth in growth, a fourth in aggressive growth, a fourth in foreign fund or an international fund and a fourth in growth and income. We put a fourth in each in my retirement and I want all three of those to over a 10-year period of time or longer to have an outperformed the S&P. And they're hard to find but you can find them. If they've got the software to pull that out and they pull up through reform and look at them together, we go, okay, which ones are these? Do we think? We talk about it together and then we make the choice together. I'm not paying him to be a stock picker. Okay. I'm paying him to help me manage my money. Yeah. And also a great financial advisor is looking at more than just your 401k and your investments. They're looking over your entire financial portfolio. They're looking at your house, taxes, the give. I mean, they're able to look at everything and I think for, that's where I see the benefit is having everything in one place. Now, yeah, is the Vanguard option there? Absolutely. But I would even bring that to a financial advisor say, I have this over here with me. Put that in my portfolio so I can look at the whole picture, right? So I don't know. That's ours has helped us do things that I'm like, oh, well, that's creative. I didn't think to go here and here and they know about, you know, whether it's, you know, what those are ways to invest and it's great. But they didn't call you up and tell you they did it. No. They call you up and say, here's an idea. You all understand the idea and then do we implement the idea? Yes, but there is a... And whether it's a mutual fund purchase or whether it's a tax move or whatever it is. But David, a lot of people... So don't look for people to manage your money. You manage your money with the help of an advisor. And yes, you can outperform the market if you do that. Okay. Can I tell you though, there's a lot of that of what David just said moving right now in people aren't wanting financial advisors. They're just wanting to go and invest themselves, opening a Vanguard. That's where a lot of people are feeling that. Well, the S&P 500, the Bogleheads have been around forever. Okay. That's not new. No, I know it's not new, but I'm saying more and more people are not... The traditional, hey, I'm going to go and I need a financial advisor to get me in the space is becoming... You don't need one to get you in the space. You need one to maximize the space. That's it. Well, that's what I'm saying though, is that it's more... I'm hearing more and more people... People that have a financial advisor have a higher likelihood of staying in when the news on the... When Trump burps and the market goes down, they stay in. And the people that stay in are the ones that make money. And they have a higher probability of picking better mutual funds because they're getting actual... They're learning. Your SmartVestorPro on RamseySolutions.com has to have the heart of a teacher or we won't put him in Ramsey trusted. We won't put him in there. Her in there. Okay. And so, and most of them make a percentage of the amount under management is what they get usually 1% or so. That's about what they get paid. And so they need to be doing something that outperforms by 1% the market. Otherwise, they're not worth their money. That's right. So we speak. So, yeah, you get in that. But yeah, but you can. It's the... Bogle started Vanguard and they're called Bogleheads. And his premise was correct. He was a genius. It was that the S&P 500 outperforms more than half of the mutual funds. So if you just blindly go pick a mutual fund, you'd have been better off to pick the S&P 500 index. It was his point. Yeah. And that's why he started a no commission, no load S&P 500 at Vanguard. And it's the famous thing in the stock market history. And so people that say, I'm not going to think about this. I'm just going to dump it into S&P 500. And I'll at least make what the stock market makes. And I'll outperform more than 50% of the mutual funds by doing that. Those are called Bogleheads. And they're not new just because TikTok came out. No, I'm not saying they're new. I'm just saying I'm hearing it more and more. People have the access to it. I've heard Dave Ramsey's a crook for 35 years because I told people not to do that and go get, go pay a commission to outperform Bogleheads. And Dave Ramsey, not a crook. I'm a genius. It's your. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studios. There's a lot of discussion in America today about the 20 somethings, the Gen Zers and the millennials having an affordability crisis. A lot of it is centered towards home buying, but it's also just in general. Life is too expensive. We don't make enough. Capitalism is failing us and whatever. And there is a serious pinch on these two generations, but it is not because things are too expensive. It is because the large banks and the car companies and the U.S. Congress have conspired to screw them. We have record credit card debt. The most ever. What's in your wallet says the actor on the commercial. Over and over and over and over again. They've been brainwashed to believe by the big banks that if I use a credit card, I can prosper with the points and the airline miles, which is mathematically ludicrous. They've been brainwashed by the lending industry that if they have a high FICO score that they are somehow winning and 100% of the mathematical items and the algorithm for the FICO score are debt related. You can inherit a million dollars and your FICO score doesn't change a point. Your boss could give you a million dollars or your raise in your salary and your FICO score doesn't change a point. It is not a financial health score. It is how much you've been screwed by Citibank and Fifth Third and these large banks and Ford Motor Company and General Motors Credit and Chrysler Credit and Lexus Credit need I go on with all the credits. 20% of the borrowers that left the car last month left with a car payment over a thousand dollars a month. When you have a thousand dollar a month car payment or three and you're really running up the credit card debt because you're chasing the FICO score that you've been taught to do by these villains, you have affordability issues. Add to that we've got 18 year olds that are loaned a hundred thousand dollars and the loan is guaranteed to be paid by the U.S. government. What bank won't make this loan? Because they're 100% guaranteed to get their money. It's called a guaranteed student loan and so of course they're going to want to loan this money. So they loan a hundred thousand dollars to an 18 year old who can't buy beer and they choose a school based on the fact that the street is pretty in front of the school. This is combined to create a two generations that are completely handcuffed by these megabanks, the U.S. Congress and these car companies and there's where your affordability crisis is coming from. Yes, if you're in Gen Z you're feeling a pinch but you also signed up for it darling and these companies are screwing you and I think you ought to say enough is enough. If you want to get pissed off at something it's not capitalism it's that you got screwed by the megabanks and you need to go back to something like a credit union or a small town local bank where they're not trying to screw you with every transaction. And making so much money, yeah, Newsweek. Newsweek is reporting you may not be asking for more credit but your bank systems were giving it to you anyway. The bank initiated credit limit increases, four and five credit limit increases in the United States are initiated by the bank rather than requested by the customers. So what's happening with your credit cards is they're sending you a notice that says oh we looked at your situation and you're so valuable that now you don't have a $5,000 limit, you have an $8,000 limit. You weren't even up to $5,000, you weren't limited but you now think that you can spend this and so you go and spend again. Borrowers largely end up using the extra credit, revolving balances rise by around 30% following these limit increases, indicating that algorithmic decision making has become a major but largely hidden driver of household debt. Affordability issues. An evidence shows that borrowers, they're altering their spending with changes in their credit limit even if they weren't previously constrained by the credit limit. It's the mental game we talk about to say that, okay, I'll spend as much with the credit card than a debit card, proves to show you if you feel like you have a large amount of money to spend, you will spend it. They're altering their spending without even realizing it because the limits are increasing by the banks. And then some moron on TikTok who was taught by his communist college professor that capitalism is bad is saying oh socialism is the answer, when the problem is not socialism or capitalism, the problem is these banks have been screwing an entire generation and no one's standing up for them. Well, we at Ramsey are standing up for you. We're going to kick your butt while we're doing it because we love you and we want you to get out of debt, so stop jumping in the bear trap and then expecting not to have your leg torn off. Of course you're going to have pain when you jump in the bear trap. Stay away from the bear trap. These people are not your friends. I know they have a glittering little smile and Bradley Cooper is camping out in the lobby. I couldn't give a crap less. It's the most advertised and marketed product on the planet, this thing called debt. These people's job is to screw you and if you don't make it your job to quit being screwed, then you're going to have affordability issues, honey, because you're going to be what we call broke people. So stand up and say, I've had it. We're not going to take it anymore. Play the old rock song, right? We're not going to take it anymore. I've had it. I'm not living like this and I'm not going to play these people's games. If you want to be pissed off at something, don't be pissed off at capitalism. Capitalism is not your problem. Your problem is you stepped up into the bear trap and the bear ate you and it wasn't capitalism, it was a bank and a car company and a system that redefined success improperly for you. This is not success. You are not successful when you have a high FICO score. All it means is you gave the bank a whole bunch of interest. That's all a FICO score. I have an 800 FICO score and when someone tells me that, I always say, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. That's like saying I have high blood pressure and bragging about it. No, thank you. Don't do them. I'm so sorry. So if you want to fix your affordability, if you want this generation to fix their affordability issues, they can buy a house when they don't have $1,200 car payments and $150,000 student loan debt on a degree in left-handed puppetry because they were sold a lie that any degree is valuable and every degree is not valuable. Oh, and your FICO score is not a measure of financial wealth or health. It's a measure of how much you've been screwed. When you get that right, you're going to get this whole affordability thing fixed, boys and girls. Buying and selling a home is a big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you and you want to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey Trusted real estate agents. They're hand-picked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs, and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey Trusted agent near you, visit ramseysolutions.com.agent. Tony is in Tallahassee. Hi, Tony. How are you? All right. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, my question is, I got a bunch of sterling silver I've been saving up. I started back in 2015, 2017. I was wondering if I should sell it and turn around and reinvest it in silver coins instead of the sterling. Well, I don't buy precious metals as an investment. I don't buy silver as an investment. Since I don't do it, I don't advise other people to do it. My reasoning is very simple. The rate of return sucks. Well, I've already made 66% increase on what I've already purchased. Like I said, I bought it in 2015 when the silver was about $15.20 an ounce. I've already got 66% return on my investment already. I want to get rid of the sterling and invest that in the silver coins. In 2015, you said, right? Yes, sir. It was about $16 an ounce then. I'm looking at a chart. And it hovered at $16 an ounce up until about five months ago. So all of a return has come in a recent spike. It's not a steady investment. And following a recent spike in precious metals, you usually see a sharp decline. It's a great time to sell silver. It's not a great time to buy silver. No, no. That's why I'm concerned if I should just sit on it and watch the stock market as it crashes. I would sell it and I would not be invested in silver. If you like silver, I would just challenge you. Go back and look at the 50-year chart on it. It's basically flat with a couple of spikes. One of them is in the last two years. It's an unusual spike. But I mean, over the last 50 years, it's just kind of does nothing. And then all of a sudden, there's two places, 2008, and now that there's a spike in the chart. And that's it. Versus, if you follow the stock market chart, a good S&P 500 as an example, we were talking about that earlier, through that same period of time, it's a steady increase. So, you know, 23 and 24 were like 20 plus percent on the S&P. The S&P to date in 25 is 17. And so there's three years that you're going to get your 66 pretty quick in that. And so in a shorter period of time than you got 66. And I don't think that's realistic in the stock market, by the way, but that's what has actually happened during the same period of time that you made 66 on the silver. And so I think your number is right, by the way, I'm not saying I'm not challenging your number. I'm just challenging that it's such an, it's an anomaly within the space. And I don't buy things based on anomalies. I buy things based on trends and steady charting. You see, let's see the chart go like steadily up, up, up, up, up, up. Yeah. And this chart was silver on your computer. It is. It's all over the map. Flat and a little spike and then flat and then a little spike. And that's it. And so I'm, you know, I don't buy stuff like it. So sell it now, Tony. Sell it all. Get out of it. And you'll make the most you probably will make. Yeah. If you wait, it's going to drop. And when you, and you're going to lose the money that you made, or that you haven't made because you insulted. But there you go. Caroline's in Austin, Texas. Hey, Caroline, what's up? Hi. So I'm a millennial and I was one of the millennials that did the stupid thing of like, go to school and take out like whatever loans to get the dream job. I did it. I got the dream job. Now I'm 35, including our house, our remaining school loans, and the final, the final items on our list where our debts listed smallest to largest. My husband and I now are remaining debt is we have including the house, our school loans, his car, and a business credit card from when he ran his business. We have about $260,000 in debt. How much of that is your mortgage? Our mortgage we owe $122,000 on our house. Okay. So you have $140,000 in miscellaneous debt. How much of that is student loans? I owe $93,000 and my husband owes $22,000. So $110,000 of the $140,000. So the car and the credit cards and all that are about $30,000. Yes. Yeah. The vehicle is $9,000. And your household income is what? I make $85,000 a year, $85,000 a year, and my husband now makes $130,000 a year. We just established this income. Phenomenal. I was a breadwinner during the pandemic. We've been working the baby steps since 2018. Pre-pandemic, I was rolling like an extra thousand towards my student loans. How much have you paid off since 2018 to get to here? So I went to school for 10 years. Now you said in 2018 you started the baby steps. I ask how much you've been paid off since 2018. I paid off $40,000 in my school loans. See, I mean working them very hard. So my husband lost his job and then we had two babies during the pandemic. But you really made almost no progress on your baby steps this bottom line. Okay. We listed our smallest to largest debt. We paid off six of the... We have 11 items on the list. We paid off six. So the remaining items are my husband's car, the credit card for my husband's business, and then the student loans in the house. So I received an inheritance of about $600,000 an hour. Whoa! Yes, praise God. Yeah, awesomeness. So the $234,000 is cash and that's in a savings account. $100,000 is in Exxon stock. And then the other remaining asset of that $600,000 is farmland that's valued at $250,000. So you can sell everything but the farmland and be debt free. Yes. Do it. So my kids are two and three. Wait a minute. Stop. I don't want to hear any more stories. Why would you not do that? So I am trying to figure out how to take a career pause. So I want to go... Is it dumb to just try to pay off... If you paid off everything and kept the farmland and had a paid-for house... And a 130. And paid-for farmland and zero debt. No... You wouldn't have a... Mortgage. You wouldn't have any debt. No mortgage, no nothing. Your husband makes what? Yeah. 130. 130. And you want to quit and come home and live on 130? Sure you could do that. And then our savings would be nothing. Wouldn't that be unwise? Your savings would be nothing? You would have a farmland and... No, it's not unwise. You have $130,000 income and zero debt. You ought to be able to invest now and start investing. Okay. Okay. How old were you? You said you're 35. I'm 35 and I want to take a pause by the time I'm 38. So that would get me attention. So take a... Have at it. Take a calculator and pull it up at remseesolutions.com. Okay? Pull up our retirement calculator and put in these numbers. Okay? 15% of $130,000 for 30 years. Okay. And that's going to be about $17,000, about $1,500 a month. That's if your husband never gets a raise and you never go back to work and you say 15% of your income. Okay. When you put that in for 35 years, you're going to see $5 million or $6 million. Okay. And we'd own our house and we'd have no debt. All that time you'd have no debt. $6 million. All that time you'd have no debt. The farmland's going up, the family land and your house is going up and you're going to go back to work and he's going to get raises. So you're going to end up with $10 million. Oh my gosh. Okay. Thanks. This is exactly what I needed. Yeah, you got to do it. I wanted to pay a whole the debt. Okay. Cool. I was worried. Okay. You can't just go, oh well, something happened. No, no, no, no, no, nothing happened. We're putting this money aside. And Caroline, it's been eight years of you guys working this plan and there's car loans in here and all of it. Right? Stop it. Yeah. You guys have to agree that if we're going to go this debt free route, we're going to live that way for the rest of our lives. If we get rid by a car, we have to save up and pay for it. If we're going on vacation, we have to save up and pay for it. Or we can't go. I've owned my car since 2015. But your husband had it. Yeah. And you're married to him. So you haven't owned your car. You haven't owned his car. Quit doing that stuff. Okay. It's exciting though, Caroline. You guys can do this. This is awesome. You're in great shape, but you can't fall back off the wagon and hit the numbers I'm talking about. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Winning at money is 80% behavior and 20% head knowledge. What to do isn't the problem. Doing it is. In her brand new book, What No One Tells You About Money, Jade Warshaw Dives Deep into the Reasons You've Been Stuck, this book exposes the real emotional fight with money and shows you how to win that battle. Pre-order now for $24.99 and you'll get over $100 of free bonus items. Get your copy today at ramseysolutions.com slash store. Christmas is almost here. Our deals are still going strong though. Grab gifts while you can. These prices won't last much longer and it's not much time to ship stuff. We got to get it to you. Rachel Cruz sitting right to my right has three kids book. One on great books, one on gratitude, one on generosity, one on contentment. They're on sale right now. They're incredible. The illustrations, the stories are amazing. $13 each. If you're shopping for everyone else, our deals are still going $13 for best selling hardcover books at Ramsey. All of our stuff just about are there. $13 career assessments, $12 for questions for humans cards and $7.99 for audiobooks and ebooks. RamseySolutions.com slash store. Eugene and Carol are with us. Hey guys, what's up? Hey Dave, here Rachel. We're so excited to be here. We're glad to have you. I see on my screen you guys are baby steps millionaires. Tell us what your net worth is. So Dave, it is about $2,326,000. Good for you. Give me a little breakdown on that. How's that $2 million broken out? Yes, so about $950,000 is the home which we bought 12 years ago for $375,000. So we're blessed with that. Retirement, a little bit about a million, $003,000. Emergency fund, $98,000 for the college. We have done for the kids about $175,000. We have two of them, they're 13 and 12. And in cards we have three vehicles, all paid for about $70,000. Excellent. The three of them combined. And how much of this did you all inherit? Zero. Zero, I like it. Okay, and your ages right now, how old are you? I'm 44. And I'm 47. Cool. And what were your careers or are your careers? I have an MBA. And I'm in sales. And you're what Eugene? I'm in sales. Sales, okay. And what was your career Carol with your MBA? I worked in marketing. I worked in marketing, direct marketing for a long time. And what's the most you guys have made as a couple in a year? About $200,000. Okay, and what's the worst year you had as a couple? Income. Probably in the beginning when we first started we were each making about $30,000 a year. Okay, so 60 to 200 was the range. You're 44 and 47, you have $2.3 million, you did not inherit any of it. What was your GPA in college? Mine was 3.8 and Eugene 3.2. Okay, all right. Smart but not geniuses. I like it. Very good. No, not at all. What do you drive Eugene? So I have, well after becoming millionaires, I bought for my wife a brand new van to Yorosiena that she wanted it. I have greater her eight-year-old Ziena and I just got a, you're going to love this Rachel, a Moto Y, a Tesla. Oh, Eugene, I knew I liked you. I knew I liked you. And the minivan, y'all are like our family. You're running an eight-year-old minivan, right? They got her brand new one. We have about three or eight years ago. We're doing the baby steps. You bought the van eight years ago. Yeah, when they got the first baby. Yeah, so Dave, when we started the baby steps, we downgraded. I had a really leather seat interior minivan and we went down the cloth seats because we had to get on the plan. And so after we became that free, Eugene's like, okay, we're going to go buy you your dream car, which is a van with leather seats and all the bells and whistles. I get it. Okay, so you're in Miami and I hear an accent. What is your heritage? We are from Columbia. Columbia. I'm from Columbia. I was actually born here in New Jersey. Beautiful family. But I came... We see the picture right now. But I came from Columbia when I was 19 years old with two rolling backs and 90 dollars in my pocket. Wow. You know, we've been blessed. Amazing. Yeah, you've worked your tails off. The American dream is what you've experienced. It's incredible. Congratulations. I'm so proud of y'all. Way to go, guys. Thank you so much. I got to ask you and I know the answer, but I got to ask you, can it still be done today? Absolutely, it can still be done. You know, you sometimes you ask people, what would you say to your younger self? Yeah. And so it's, you know, this is built on consistency, not on income. You got to get on financial piece, get on a written budget. You know, you have to really drink the Kool-Aid. We teach FCU and we tell people you cannot do this ish. You have to... You can't do this ish. You have to do it fully. You have to live below your means. It absolutely can be done. You sometimes ask people, how do you feel to be a millionaire? Honestly, guys, it doesn't feel like we're millionaires. Most of our money is tied up in retirement and real estate, so we can't... You're driving an eight-year-old Toyota. Yeah. We're still in a budget. Even when we're two kids, they have their own folder in the EveryDollar app. Yes. Yes. In the EveryDollar movies on Tuesdays, our kids joke around that we still live like no one else in the Jeep side, that when are we going to go to the other side? So yeah, it's been such an adventure. We are so honored, so honored to talk to you. And Dave, you changed our life in 2016 and you put... You put... God put you in our path and we thought that it was possible and we had a dream. And Proverb says the fools are headstrong and they do what they like and white people take advice and so we took your advice. Wow. Well, we're honored to be a part of your story. You're definitely the hero in the story. Very, very well done. All the way from nothing, from $90 in your pocket and two roller bags to $2.3 million net worth, paid for house, retirements full of a million dollars, no inheritance. They did not inherit their money. So all you people that think that that's what happens, it's not what happens. What happens is sweat and calluses and consistency and focus and sweat and calluses and consistency and focus and sweat and calluses and consistency and focus. That's what happens. Correct. Yeah, you guys are amazing. I'm so, so proud of you. Hey, thanks for sharing your story with us. Okay? Thank you guys. It's such an honor. Well done, you guys. You too. Very cool. I have decided... We've been interviewing these Baby Steps Millionaires for years now and I started asking about, I don't know, two years ago when I'm talking to them what car they're driving. The number of them that have a Toyota of some kind, not a Hyundai and not a Honda, a Toyota of some kind. I don't know what it is about Toyota. They're great cars. They are good cars, but it's just very interesting. It's not a used Lexus. Right, it's a Toyota. It's a Toyota. It's just over and over and over again. I hear Toyota. I hear Toyota. I don't usually hear Tesla. That was a new one. Okay. That doesn't usually come up, but yeah. Why am I blanking on my... The Toyota... Oh, the Odyssey. I was like, why am I blanking on my van? The Toyota van. It's amazing. Oh, yours is a Honda. No, no, it's a Honda. Oh, mine's a Honda. Never mind. Yours is a Honda. Yeah, okay. I don't know, of course I will. It's still a minivan, a very nice minivan. That's right. The Toyota's Sienna. That's it. Yeah, the Sienna. They had the Sienna. Yeah. That's... But they have a Toyota. I hear you. I hear you. They don't match you exactly. They have a minivan and a Tesla, but different brand minivan. That's fair. That's fair. Sorry. Very cool though. Very cool. I don't know why I loved the Toyota idea, but... I just run into a lot. And the other thing is I find that millionaires forgot to upgrade their cars. This one's not too bad, but oftentimes I'm saying, hey dude, go buy your wife a car. Really? You have a 93 Camry and you're worth $4 million. Come on dude, time to upgrade the car. Pay cash for it, but it's time to upgrade it. Come on man. Come on man. And so the number of times I'm telling a millionaire that they need to upgrade their wife's car. I've already got the car. They forgot. They just... Will you ever have a self-driving car? Any part of you at all? A Tesla? Like would you ever... I hardly ever say never on anything mechanical. I mean, I cannot visualize having a car that I have to plug in the wall. I can't get my head around it. And I can't visualize not having the thrill of driving. I love driving a really good car. And especially a nice, curvy Tennessee mountain road, right? It's a lot of fun for me. You think you're going to die after the passenger seat? But I think, you know, Phoenix has got all of the wegos or whatever they're called. Now what are they called? The self-drivers. Yeah. Oh, the taxi. Yes. The taxi. Waymo. I got close. Okay. Yeah. Like Henry Cloud sent me a picture riding and no driving. Yeah, that's weird. That's pretty crazy. It's one of the best times of the year, but it's also the time of year when people let their money get totally out of control. Everywhere you look, it's just buy, buy, buy. So you start swiping the credit card and suddenly it's January and you got a mess on your hands. Don't let that happen. Tell your money where to go instead of wondering where it went. With our budgeting app, EveryDollar. EveryDollar not only helps you stay on budget and in control of your spending this holiday season, it also helps you find extra margin in your budget, thousands of dollars of it, and every day will coach you to build better money habits and attack your goals faster than ever. So while most people will be starting in January with the taste of regret in their mouth, you'll already be winning. For EveryDollar for free by downloading the app today. Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. So if you've not been trustworthy in handling worldly wealth, who will trust you with true riches? Luke 16, 10 and 11. Nelson Mandela said money won't create success. The freedom to make it will. Courtney is with us in Tampa. Hi Courtney, Merry Christmas. Yes, hi. Thank you for having me. Sure. What's up? I took financial peace university earlier this year and I'm in baby step two with about 33,000 of remaining credit card debt. Good for you. I'm wanting to live. Thank you. In baby step seven. And so how do I handle wanting to live generously, especially with, you know, the recent shutdown and people struggling and working in an area where I think part of it is like, I have cash in my pocket now and I want to, you know, give it to the guy that's sitting outside seven 11 or something. But how do I live generously and feeling like I have the means to do so, but still have my own debt to tackle? Now, well, you know, baby step two is we're living on a detailed type budget. We're not going out to eat. We're not going on vacation and any money we can squeeze out of anything extra work or under spending or anything we throw with the smallest debt, which would not mean there's cash in your pocket. Understood. So that means it's going on the smallest debt. Now, it's a really good question though. You've got a great heart. And I will tell you that over the years of doing this, that the people that are motivated by potentially becoming outrageously generous do some of the best work of getting out of debt and building wealth because they have a good reason, a good why for building wealth. The idea that you want to be a baby step seven and give away not just pocket change, but serious money and help somebody in a serious way. That motivator is so noble. It's such a calling on your heart that it will lead you out of debt, higher probability of getting out of debt and faster than something that you wanted selfishly. So you're an incredible lady. I predict big things for you. What Sharon and I did when we were at this stage because we had the same heart. We desperately wanted to be generous and had no money because all of it was going on debt. So all we did was we just did acts of service. And you tithed. And so we tithed. We give a tenth of our income. That's a baseline. But above that, we didn't walk around and we didn't. Maybe we couldn't support the homeless shelter with a $50,000 gift, but we could go serve soup. And maybe we couldn't give the widow down the street that had lost her husband a $10,000 gift to help her with anything. We could cut her grass and clean out her gutters. And we did. And make her dinner or watch the kids when she goes out or something. You make dinner. Dinner doesn't cost much anything to make dinner for somebody or watch somebody's kids. Like Reginald said, there's all kinds of acts of service that you can do. And honestly, it comes out of the exact same muscle, the exact same place in your heart that giving monetary gifts does. Yes, absolutely. Generous people are the ones that hold the door for you at the supermarket. Yes. And I do love your heart in it, Courtney. And I think the way I would be positioning it in my mind is that if I make a sacrifice right now by cleaning this up, getting out of debt so that I'm in a good place financially, you're going to be able to give more, obviously, than now. But even if you lived with debt for the rest of your life, you would always just have some change in your pocket to give the guy. Versus, if you were debt free and you were on a plan and giving was one of those motivators or a priority for you where you're going to be giving more than maybe the average person that gives, you're going to have the means to be able to do that and even make a bigger impact for somebody. To go into that single mom and pay her lights for a year, you'll be able to write a check and just do that. But you can't do that right now. And if you live how you're living now, you'll never be able to get to that place where you'll have a lot to be able to give. So there's something about being debt free that frees up your income, not just obviously for yourselves, but for other people of what you're saying. So you get to do even more impact when you are debt free. You guys always here to say, live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. So you have a better quality of life and a higher level of generosity than anyone else because you paid a price to get there. And the biblical verse that caused us to come up with that saying is, no discipline seems pleasant at the time. And listen to this from a generosity perspective. But it yields a harvest of righteousness. What's more righteous than generosity? I mean, what's more holy than generosity? Not many things. You know, and so you're really touching the part of your heart that God installed. He installed the whole thing. But the part of him that's most, the part of your heart that's most like God when you're giving. He gave his only son. And it's what Jesus did, right? I mean, that's his example. He was serving constantly to people. And so, yeah, there's, there is that element that is so real. That's interesting. Jesus never gave money. I don't think he made any. I know. I guess he did as a carpenter. I guess, yeah, he did. He had a job. Yeah. I think he pulled, I think he pulled, or Peter, somebody pulled a coin out of the fish's mouth, right? But give to Caesar what is Caesar's. I don't, I don't think there's, I never thought about it. There's never, there's, it's definitely not a prevalent Bible story of Jesus giving money, but he did give extra service. Yes. Healing on the Sabbath. Yes. I mean, you know, on and on. Right? Washing the disciples' feet. I mean, his life was service to people. Exactly. And that's the ultimate of generosity. Very good. Courtney, you're going to be great. You're already great. Brett is with us in Boise. Hi, Brett. What's up? Hi. My question today is, I need my wife for about $160,000 in debt right now. Good Lord. 135, yeah, 135 debt is student loan debt. Good Lord. On her side. And then 24,000 of that is card debt. What's her degree in, Brett? Her degree is a bachelor's of science, and then she has a certificate in business. Bachelor of science, what? That's, I mean, I'm looking at her diploma right now. That's all it says. It's a bachelor's of science. What did she study? She has an emphasis on biology, I suppose. Oh, okay. Okay. So my question was, she works at St. Luke's Hospital right now. What does she make? She makes about like 17 an hour. Whoa. Yeah. Okay. What do you make? I actually just got back from deployment. I made about 70,000 this last 10 months, but I'm going back to school right now to get an A&P certificate. So y'all are broke? Yeah. Thanks for your service, but dude, you need some income in that house. Yeah. That's what we plan on doing. I mean, this next two years when I go to school, I'm working at A&P jobs. I mean, I should be making around $30 to $40 an hour. Yeah. Why aren't you working while you're in school? I am working while I'm in school. I literally just got back, so I'm looking for jobs right now. The way you were saying it, I thought you were quitting or weren't doing anything. Okay. So you're off deployment, but you're not out of the service? No. I'm in the National Guard, so. Oh, okay. Intermission or mobile. I got it. Okay. Well, we want to go back to school. She wants to get her master's degree, which she will be trying to pocket. Why? Because she can't find a job right now. She wants to get into dietetics, and she just can't find anything, and she thinks that this master's degree is going to get her job. Yeah. How old are you guys? I'm 25, and she's 23. Yeah. Yeah, a master's degree doesn't solve it. No. You've got other issues going on. So I think there's a lot of possible tracks that she could take with the biology degree that was a lot better than $17 an hour. Obviously, you could have made $17 an hour without a degree. Breathing, you can make $17 an hour. So yeah. So no, I mean, you guys really desperately need to get your income up and then tear through these loans as fast as possible. You've got to mess on your hands. And going deeper into debt. You bought a car you can't afford for sure. Good Lord. And going more into debt to go get a master's degree, to be a dietitian, no thank you. Nope, nope, nope. Look at what the incomes are. I think you've got to study your career tracks and decide where we're going to go and how we're going to pay for it, and then save up and get these debts cleaned up. Y'all got to mess on your hands, brother. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.