You Can’t Win With Money When Your Relationships Are Messy

This episode is filled with some of our best calls and advice, but unless you take what you hear and put it to work in your own life, you'll be stuck with the same money stress in 2026. So make a change and download every dollar today. Normal is broken. Common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. This is the Ramsey Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Jade Warshall and we're answering your question. So give us a call at AAA8255225. And when we talk about your life, your money, career relationships, anything and everything we are here for you. So let's start off in Boston with Miguel. Hi, welcome to the show. Hey, how's it going? We're doing well. How can we help today? So today I wanted to ask, so I have a business and I'm, I'm kind of debating on what I should be next because I'm also 147,000 in debt and that's included in credit cards, student loans and our car payment. Okay. So I wanted more if I should sell a business. So what I think I did value for and then start freshers and use that lump sum of money to attack like the debt. Hmm. What kind of business are you in? I took printing business so merchandise. What would cause you? What would cause you to sell the business versus using profit from the business to pay down the debt? I think it's just because I'll collect the lump sum of money and like business right now is kind of, you know, fluctuating. Up and down and I'm also alone in it. So it's a lot of my time. Where I feel like I could change the, if you didn't have debt, McGell, would you stay in this business? Would you still want out? Yeah. You would stay in the business. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, because I look at this as, I mean, because I mean, well, how much would you sell it for? How much could you get out of it? Minus all of your liabilities and everything. About 30 grand. How much are you making off of it every year? How much are you bringing home? So this is actually like my first year in it. So I know at the end of the year, but roughly after everything about 1,500 bucks a month, 1500 a month. And this, is this what you do full time or is this kind of like a side business? Full time. Well, I don't know that I would sell it. But I would not have this being my full time job right now because of what it's generating it feels like it's how are you guys living? Is your wife work? No, I'm single. You're single. How are you living off of $1,500 a month? Just making it happen honestly. But what's your rent though? Like real numbers? I think studio, it's about 850. What else? Car? Yeah, 450 and then 450, okay? Yeah. And then utilities, I guess that's put in what the rent and then just your scrapping on food, no insurance. Yeah. Do you have insurance? Health insurance? I like my cards. No, no, no, no, not insurance. Yeah, so you're not on a, you're not on a living wage right now. And so while I think it's cool to have a printing business, This, it eats like a part-time side hustle when we look at the income that it's bringing. So I would be looking, as you're working this, I'd be looking for a full-time job. What are your skills? What have you done in the past before you did this business? I told you just hopped off school and then paid money and then started this business. Yeah, how many hours a week? I've never really. How many hours a week are you putting into this? A lot, it's probably like 50, 60. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so if you did, do you have a buyer out there like when you say sell the business? I mean, what's that? Have you looked into that option? Is there a realistic option? Yeah, I have a few options and that's, what I mean the business, I just mean like the equipment and everything. Yeah. Oh, I hear what you're saying. Not necessary. Yeah, okay, yes. That's where the debt is, right? What did you invest in to do this business? Like what equipment do you have? Oh, I have all like DTG printer, heat presses and a couple other machines. You know, stuff like that. I'll tell you, you haven't been doing the business long so I don't want to say that there's no future in it. Like, but how much of this debt is business debt? Like how much of it came from the business? About eight grand. Okay, that's not bad. Of the 147, that's only eight. I've inclined for you to continue. What I want to know is what's the minimal amount of hours that you can put in it to keep the 1500 so that you can search for something else? Is there any feasible way to do that? Yeah, it's possible. That's also another plan I've been thinking of because I have a location in a premier like downtown area. So I was thinking of just getting rid of the space, trying to find something smaller. And then kind of just work on piece of orders I get and not so much like being in there. Do you have consistent clients that you're reprinting for or is it a one and done? Yeah, almost. A little bit of both, but I do have, I picked up a few clients that are picking up, you know, a month ago. Yeah, and as most of the hours, when you're saying I'm working 50 hours on this, is it most of it in the actual physical printing that you're having to do or is it trying to find new clients and marketing and thinking of creative ways to get your name out there? A little bit of both, but mainly the printing process like printing and being in there. Okay, yeah, so I'm with Jade. I mean, Miguel, if you have all the equipment and it is bringing in 1500, obviously that's not sustainable long term for you to live like that. Obviously you know that or you probably won't be calling the show. So it's November, a part of me would give it another six months while doing something else. Like you need to go wait tables. I mean, you could make more money doing that. I mean, something, right? You need to go be doing something. And if you can keep this on the side and actually get some clientele, you could, I don't know, and if you could, yes, grow it and then maybe that'd be your full time or you just have these clients and you start making 3000 a month while also still working to get out of all the credit, all the debt that you talked about at the beginning of this call. So I almost would be tempted just to hold tight for like maybe six months. Give yourself a time period though to say, okay, I don't go into any more debt in it. But to say, can I pick up any more steam in this business in the next six to nine months? And if you can't, then sure, sell the equipment and then that will give you some money. But we just see this, Jade and I both, I think, as a great side hustle for right now, why don't you go get a full time job somewhere else? The fact that you've started generating money so quickly from it, I think is good and you have made an investment in something equipment and it feels like worth it to try to play that out a little longer. But I like what Rachel said on putting a timeline on it. So I would do that, McGout, or just throw this out there. Kind of the other side of the coin is, if you hate it and you're not enjoying it, but you said, I think you are liking it in some degree because you said you'd still stay in it if you didn't have debt, is to find something just full time, sell the stuff and you start a whole new life where you're not feeling like you have to carry a business, right? Because it does, it's a lot of strain and mental calories to do that. So I don't know, kind of two different options, but either way, you've got to get a second job, either way. Agree, agree. Rachel, yeah. I hope that helps. I know that sometimes when we just tell people, cut your expenses and get a job. I know, it feels tough, but truly that is the remedy. You don't have expenses to cut your bare bones as it is. So the next line of defense is getting more income. That's how it works. Yeah. And Ken Coleman has a book, find the book, I'm sorry, find the work you're wired to do. And we'll send that to you because there's a great, it's on a quiz assessment at the back. Yeah, to kind of figure out, maybe this will help kind of narrow some possible career paths for you to Miguel that you can just kind of brainstorm and think. So hold on the line. Christian's going to pick up. We all want peace, peace with our money, our homes, our schedules, but having peace online is important too. Most of the time when you sign up for a coupon, enter a giveaway or click yes to another email list, your personal info, like your name, your phone number, your address gets collected and sold by data brokers. And before you know it, your inbox is overflowing, your phone's full of spam calls and your data's floating around who knows where. That is why I love what DeletMe does. Their team of privacy experts finds your personal info on those creepy data broker sites, gets it removed and keeps it off. It is simple, it's safe, and it gives you more peace of mind. That means fewer spam calls, fewer scams, and way less digital chaos. You have worked so hard to find peace with your money. Now it's time to find peace with your digital life. Start protecting your privacy and your peace today. Go to joindeletme.com slash Ramsey for 20% off an annual plan. That's joindeletme.com slash Ramsey. I'm going to start with the last caller. We're talking about real estate and what that looks like to start saving up towards a home and you guys when it comes to buying and selling your home, there's a lot of decisions. It can feel very overwhelming, but you don't have to go through that process alone. We created Ramsey, and we're going to start saving up and we're going to start saving up to the home. We're going to start saving up to the home. We're going to start saving up to the home. Ramsey's real estate home base. So this is a place with so many resources and tools, like calculators start to finish guides. How two articles, a podcast, a book, a video course, like everything around the subject of real estate, because again, buying and selling, it can be an overwhelming process. And the more information you have that you understand and you know the more clarity you're going to have walking into that, which is huge. You want to be armed with so much information before you go and buy or sell your home. So make sure to check it out at ramseysolutions.com slash real estate or click the link in the description if you're watching on YouTube or listening on podcast because if you need some next steps towards your home buying or home selling process, make sure to check it out. One of my favorite things on it is the dashboard. They have the US housing market trends and they keep it updated. And it's just constantly kind of a pulse of what's going on with interest rates, median house home prices in America, total days on the markets, how many homes are for sale around the country. I mean, it just kind of gives you the snapshot picture of the real estate market. So again, you can go to ramseysolutions.com slash real estate. All right, we're going to the phones and we're going to Andrew and Shia Yanyami. One of my favorite, one of my favorite country songs. Hey, Andrew, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for having me. Absolutely, how can we help? Hey, so my wife and I were on baby steps too and it kind of took us a little bit to get there. Mostly because we've been, we've been pretty sick both of us for the past few years. And we're seeking some medical treatment to hopefully knit this in the bud, hopefully in a few short months. But the medical treatment that we're looking at that was recommended by our doc is experimental and it's not covered by insurance and the treatment can be between 10 to $30,000. So we're kind of in a position where we do. Oh, Andrew, are you there, Andrew? Oh, no. Oh, man. Andrew, we'll give you one more second. Oh, yep, that's a bad line, I think. We're going, there you are. Oh, back. Yes. You're good, you're good. My phone's a little weird. So, um, yes, I don't know if my wife and I should actually take out a loan or not, we really don't want to, especially since we're, can I ask you and share as much as you feel comfortable? But what's going on health wise? We were, um, so we got pretty sick from the home that we were living in. And so, like mold mold. Yeah, so it's just been a lot of stuff that's been going on where a lot of the treatments have been not either FDA approved or treatments have been getting us better. We are better, but it's just been a really long process. So the last time we talked with our doctor, he said that we should try and do like a hyperbolic treatment, which seems great. You know, he's had great, really great success with it, but really problem is it. The treatment has to be upfront. Um, and so that's that's the only insurance. This is obviously something more like in a natural bent. I'm assuming so insurance isn't going to cover it. No, insurance will cover it. Tell me, um, just health wise, are you guys able to, are you able to work? Are you able to function? Like how are you guys? You said you're doing better. I'm just trying to get a gauge about how urgent this, this is for you guys. Yeah, so, so we are better. And we are both working right now. We make about, I want to say close to 70 or $80,000 right now a year. Okay. The only problem with this is that the long week, put it off the worst little cat. Sure. And so just. What's your margin every month? Like what are you right now putting towards dead and baby step two that you could put potentially towards saving up for this? Or doing one at a time? Yeah, we're able to put. Close to $600 or so months into. Dead. And how much that you guys have. Right now we have about. I want to say about $20,000 in student loan debt and then about 50,000 in a. In a business loan. Okay. Man, this is so hard because I do feel like they're just from my own, not my own experience, but people within my close circles of friends and family even that I know, you know, when you get something, it's like autoimmune or a mold or whatever that it can end up feeling Andrew like there's always something else we have. Like there's a long line of things that are continual. And so what I, you know, always just think about and kind of caution is I would number one, maybe get a second opinion. I'm sure you know your doctor well and trust them. But you know, we're talking about 10 to 30,000 dollars, right? I mean, if it was $2,000, that's one thing. But I mean, you're talking, you know, five figures going in with treatments. And so is that a piece or. All in that would be for us combined. And is this ongoing or is it kind of a one time. Lord willing, it'd be, it'd be just a one time like, you know, one, one to two months worth of treatment. So the 20 sessions is like, is about $1,000 on the high end. So we hope to be done in about a month. Okay. So, you know, what I would probably do, because again, I feel like this can sometimes feel like a never ending cycle. I would, I would. And because it's not a, and I know you guys are saying I don't want to downplay it all the sicknesses. I'm sure it's just miserable. But it's not a life or death. Okay, I have to save my child right now because you know, there's a, you know, like it's not the surgery. It's not an urgency, but it is something for the betterment of your health you want. So what, you know, what I would probably strive to do is whatever I could to get, because 10 to 30 is a big range. So I would get as close to that 10. And I would talk to negotiate doctors bill. I mean, I would do whatever I could to get it down to that 10. And you guys are saying, you know, I would work to save a thousand a month. I would be okay right now, because it is a health issue, maybe to pause the day. I would say that it's snowball state current on your bills, but I would bump that 600 a month up to a thousand and save for 10 months. And then starting October, November, Andrew, start this treatment and then hopefully by this time next year, you're through it. You're done and then press play on the baby stuff. And maybe one of you goes out of time to see if it's helpful. Oh, that's a good point. You know, I know you're two different bodies with two different sets of, you know, but that might be a good way to say, listen, I did it. Did nothing for me or I did it. And it really, really helped. That might give you some confidence going into the next treatment too. It's just a thought. Like, I don't know what you're facing. I don't know if it's headaches or every time you eat, you know, whatever it is, if it's something that's truly debilitating, but if it's just, and again, I'm not, I don't want to downplay either. But if it's something that's more of an annoyance that you're learning to live through, that gives you, you know, there's a little bit more timeline there to get this done. For sure. And the sense to that, you know, you don't want to prolong it too long because what you're saying, you know, they can come back and get worse unless you have this treatment. So getting to it, right? A level of urgency, but it's also not like we have to do this next month. The only option is alone and we're done. Like, yeah, if you can, and it's not debilitating because you guys are working and all of that, I would, yeah, I would find something because I, and I would cash flow it. And the other thing, Andrew, that's interesting is when you are working with cash, even when we're talking about, you know, health situations, it does force you. This is why I like cash forces you to look at other options, other decisions like sell something. It's just other parts of your brain, a problem solving versus with debt. It's like, here's a chunk of money. This is all we're going to do. We don't really have to pit the brain power to think through other things. It's just here. But when you're paying with cash and you're working and saving hard, like, I don't know, it just forces other things to come to the surface of other options and choices. That's also true. But yeah, so again, I'm so sorry. That is very tough. That's very tough. And that's, and that has been, I don't know, I don't know if you've, I have to say people and it's like, you go to the next thing and then it flares up again. It just feels like it's like whack them all a little bit sometimes with different things. So I do want you guys to get that treatment. But because it's not, it's not life or death right in this moment, I would, I would calm down. I mean, I would, I would pause a little bit and save up for it. That's difficult. I remember when Sam and I were getting out of debt, this was before the days of Obamacare and you had to have insurance or you penalized. We didn't have insurance and one day he was pulling our luggage out of the back of the Jeep and caught on his finger and he broke his finger. And we didn't have insurance and I was like, listen, get over to Walgreens. Take it up. Take it up. Take it up. It's crooked to this day. And he knows he plays insurance. It wasn't good. Take care of yourself. Take care of yourself. Take care of yourself. It's not insurance. This is the Ramsey show. The holidays are supposed to be joyful, but they can also be expensive. Between gifts, travel and about a thousand limited time offers, your budget can start feeling anything but merry. And that's why I love this. Boost mobile helps you treat yourself and your wallet. Right now you'll pay just ten bucks a month for your first two months. Then only twenty five bucks a month for unlimited talk, text and data. Forever. No price hikes, no contracts, no nonsense. Just reliable service that keeps your phone bill low and your holiday spirits high. So stop stressing over your budget and start saving instead. Go to boostmobile.com slash Ramsey and unwrap the savings today. That's boostmobile.com slash Ramsey. And that's the instructions apply. See boostmobile.com slash Ramsey for details. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. Up next in Boone, North Carolina, we have Sierra on the line. Hi, Sierra. Welcome to the show. Hi. Hero. Absolutely. How can we help. Um, so. My husband and I are living paycheck to paycheck. And. I. Was introduced you dame. Ramsey. For my grandmother. Um. I have been trying for the past six months. And I'm stuck on Baby step one. Um. And we're not getting anywhere. We have half of Baby step one. And. everything happened with the hurricane and we're back to zero. Oh man. You guys hit hard. Were you one of the towns? Yeah, we were. So sorry. It's okay. It happens. But I feel like we can't catch a break. And wasn't paycheck to paycheck is so hard for us. I am a full-time student, college student. I'm 29. And my husband works full-time, sometimes even over like over time shifts just so that we can get by. And I just I don't know what to do anymore. What's he bringing in? Income arms. About 49 to 50,000 a year. Okay. And when do you graduate? I have about five semesters left. So I'll be finishing up in 2027. Okay. Okay. Are you are you working at all, Sierra? I'm not, but I pick up pet sitting shift to try and bring in some money. I tried a full-time job and full-time college and it destroyed me. Okay. What are you getting your degree in? Biology. And what's the goal with that? What do you want to do? I want to go work on the coast as a marine biologist. Wow. Okay. So you're he's bringing in 49,000. You're doing pet sitting. How much do you guys see a month like after taxes after everything? What does that look like monthly for you? It's about three. Three thousand five hundred. Okay. And what how are you guys living? Are you renting? What are you paying for rent? We are renting. We pay a thousand a month for rent. Okay. Yeah. This is tough. The solution that you're looking for, I mean, people live paycheck to paycheck for different reasons. Sometimes it's our spending's out of control and we've got to, you know, rein the budget in and rein the spending in. And sometimes it really is an income issue. And it's, in this case, I think you're creeping up on an income issue. I'm just wondering what is, what is your husband doing for work? What kind of work does he do? He makes fiber optic cables. Okay. And you said he had a side hustle too. What's that? He door dashes. Okay. So I'm wondering if both of you need to sit down and kind of figure out, okay, what do we both need to do in order to make this work? Because to your own words, it's not sustainable. Are you guys going into debt? Like how are you covering the overages? We are door dashing every chance that we can get. Okay. So like I can get to class and we can get food in front of my mom helps us out. Okay. So there's not, you're covering the overage then. So there's part of this and there may be more that you can do income wise, but there is part of this where you've said, okay, I'm going to go to school for the next three years and I'm going to become a marine biologist. And by me doing that, here's what we've decided. My income is limited and he's in his career right now. And so there's part of this that you guys have decided by choosing this path. And I'm not saying it's a bad thing. It's just we both understood that for the next three years, it's going to be extremely tight, but there's a light at the end of that tunnel because you're going to be a marine biologist. What's a marine biologist make? It kind of depends. I'm trying to get a state job and that can range anywhere from 50,000 to 70,000. Okay. And how are you paying for school? Right now I am pretty set with financial aid and scholarships. Okay. I've already finished my associate and good for you. Very good. Went through that with honors. So I've been doing pretty well with scholarships. So no debt. No, no. Do you guys have any other debt or any debt at all? Yes. I have three credit cards, but it only adds up to about a thousand, maybe 1500. Okay. I have a car. How much is that? The total on it's 28,000 and I pay 668 dollars. Oh, there's so many. There's so many. You got to sell that car. Wow. You got to sell it. Actually, and I'm trying to figure out how to sell it. So sell it? I'm not sure because I'm $13,000 split on this car. Oh, wow. Okay. So you owe 28,000. How much? And you're saying you really can't sell it except for 15,000 is what it's worth. When I had it, because I went and had it appraised at a dealership. Okay. So they can all give it. Yeah. Okay. So don't do the dealership route because they will always give you a much lower rate than what you could actually sell it private sale for. So go on Kelly, Kelly blue book.com, put in all the info and just see on the high ends what you could get for it. Right. So the dealership told you how much would they pay for it? Six thousand. Oh my gosh. Wait, $6,000 and it's a 20 and you owe 28,000. What kind of car is it? It's a 27,000 feet charity and I have 162,000 mile one. Okay. What is your husband drive? What's his deal? He has a motorcycle that's paid for. Got you. And we have a, we call it a hooked beef. And it's just a really old beater that's off the peg for. What about the motorcycle? What's it worth? About 4,000. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I would, okay, I think, yeah, I would be selling this car Sierra for sure. And even if it's, even if you can only get 16,000 for it, I would rather have a $16,000 loan than a 28,000 dollar loan. Does that make sense? Like that's going to change your numbers a whole lot. And if I were you guys, do you guys have kids? We have a two year old. You have a two year old, okay. Yeah, I mean, I, I might sell the motorcycle and take the 4,000 and get a beater car for you and then sell your car. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, honestly, because you can always go back and get a motorcycle again, but you guys, I mean, to your points, I mean, it's going to cut that payment down when she gets a loan for whatever it is. Almost half, possibly. Yeah. Yeah, you guys would have an extra $300 a month coming in. Yeah. So there's, and there's decisions here. And I think Jade said it up really well. And it's a, it's kind of a hard pill to swallow in life, but it's understanding that, you know, as adults, we make decisions around our life and not all of that. Yeah, not all of them are right or wrong. It's not this, you know, oh gosh, you shouldn't be in school right now. It's not that at all. It's not that we have decided to do this route. And because of that, we're not going to have a lot of money. Like we're going to be, we're going to feel broke for three years until I get through school and until I get a job and all that. And in three years, it's going to look different. But in the meantime, what can we do? What other decisions can we make that are going to be adult-like decisions that may hurt and they're not fun, but it's things like getting the extra job like you guys are doing. It's selling stuff to see what you can free up. It's getting out of debt and you're freeing up income, cutting up those credit cards. Cutting up credit cards. Yeah, I mean, it's doing a couple of these, making some of these decisions within the big decision of the lifestyle you guys have made just to make it easier, Sierra. And that's the thing is, as we want peace, you know, we talk about financial peace, is what we want for everyone. And that peace is going to look different depending on, you know, everyone's situation. And, you know, the way they view life and all of it, it's a little bit of, you know, subjective to a degree. But you don't have peace right now. And so when I would fight so hard for as in these three years, how can we get some peace? And being able to free up some money would bring some of that. And how do we do that? Well, I just listed out a couple options from jobs and stuff and all of it. So that's what I would do. And what about the long term that you've committed to? Like once she starts working, she's got a great pathway to make $70,000. And yeah, and then together with your husband? Yeah, y'all would be making, you know, $170,000. Yeah, that's great. That's what four taxes, like that's amazing. So the light is coming, but it's getting to the light that I think is really key and what decisions can we make in between. And these are hard-seer. I understand like, these aren't fun. It's not always fun, but it's getting you to a goal that you guys want to get there. And part of that is you still being in school. So I commend you for having a two-year-old and doing this. And I'm so sorry about the devastation in your area. We think about you guys so much. So we're praying for you. Thanks for the call. I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys, I started my company on a car table myself. So I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paycheck, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did. We got NetSuite. That was years ago. And we've never looked back. See, NetSuite isn't just for tech giants. It's built for growing businesses like yours. Over 43,000 businesses already run on NetSuite, including a lot that started just like you. And now with built-in AI, NetSuite is helping them even more. This one system connected to every part of your business for real time insights. Not guesswork. NetSuite AI flags, inventory issues, cash flow risks, even supplier delays before they become problems. So you can trust the data. Stop wasting time and make the right decisions faster. Take a free product tour today at NetSuite.com slash Ramsey. That's NetSuite.com slash Ramsey. You're listening to the Ramsey show. We help people with your life, your money, your relationships. If that's you, you want to get in on the action. You can call us up. It's a live show. The number is 888825225 and we'll get you on the line. Today's question. Today's Ramsey show question of the day is sponsored by YR5. When you're trapped in a maze of defaulted private student loan debt, it's hard to find your way out. But YR5 can offer you a lifeline with custom refinancing based on your ability to pay and a lump sum payoff option that you could qualify after 24 months. So go to YR5.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. Remember, it may not be available in all states. These questions comes from Lauren in New Mexico. I currently own three rental properties and have 30-year mortgages on two of them. You say to have 15-year mortgages because you pay it off faster. If I am putting my profits from my rental toward my principal on a 30-year mortgage and can pay it off in 15 years, is there a need to switch it to a 15-year mortgage? What's the reasoning behind the 15-year mortgage? I make more profits with a lower monthly payments, which puts more money towards the principal. Well, Lauren, for starters, we would say not to even have rental property if you're not able to pay cash for it. Technically speaking, if you could pay it off quickly, I would probably just sell one and throw some of the equity at the other and make that a goal to sell it. But having three rentals that have mortgages on them, not the best idea, not really the best way to do it. But for your primary home, we do say a 15, even though people, this is one of those that I feel like is a slippery slope because a lot of people still do the 30 and whatever it is. But the thing to remember is that your intentions don't always line up with reality. So if you have the intention of paying a 30 like a 15, stuff happens. And you're like, oh, yeah, well, we won't pay extra this month. We'll make sure to catch up next month and then something else happens. And you end up usually not paying it's truly like a 30. You don't. Now, when you're paying off your house in the baby steps, we do find that people are paying their houses off in like nine to 11 years, which is amazing. So I think that 15 year fixed rate mortgage that we talk about, it just locks you in to a plan to get you out of debt faster with the guarantee that you will get it paid off in 15 years. It locks you accountable. And let's be, let's call us paid a spade. The truth is, if you go with a 30 year, you're not paying as much. So you get more house. Yes. And I think truthfully when people want that, they want more house and not when you're locked into 15 though, it's like, okay, maybe suddenly I can't afford what I thought I could get. Yes. So look at the root of that. And that's the thing that that's what's always interesting with houses is that you're going to qualify for a lot more. Absolutely. And what they will give you, then what you necessarily need or even what's good for you financially. So we always talk about having at least 5% to put down for a down payment. Your payment being no more than 25% of your take on pay on a 15 year fixed rate, which I always say we understand that is a very conservative formula when it comes to the housing situation. It is. But just like our last call, you guys, like you see people like get into housing situations and it takes half their income or maybe one spouse chooses to stay home, but you can't because you built your life around, you know, having a dual income and it just starts to limit your choices. The deeper you go into debt, the longer you're in debt, it just limits your life choices on what you can and can't do because it's telling you basically what to do. So that's it, Lauren. All right. That's a really good advice. Let's talk to Greg. He's in Baloxie, Mississippi. What's going on, Greg? Hey, Jane Rachel. It's so good to be talking to you all and band-grabbing a little bit right now. Glad you're here. So I have been listening for a little over a year, but the month before I started listening, I co-signed on a truck for my now ex-pianc. Oh, Greg, I'm sorry. Yeah, rest situation. So we agreed once things ended that, hey, you know, we can keep blown as it is for a year because we needed to wait for the maternity date. Okay. And so it's coming up on that and just in talking to her on occasion, she most likely is not in a position to refinance it on her own. And she has said that her parents or anyone else won't help her. Good for them. So I, yeah, yeah. Just from my perspective, I'm not quite sure how I can get myself out of this. Have you tried persuading her to sell it and start over fresh on her own? I have, she is not completely opposed to the idea, but I don't think I can really rely on her actually following that through. Can I ask a question? And I promise it does kind of relate to this. Who broke up with who? No, you're good. I ended things with her. Okay. It makes it a little stickier. It makes it stickier because this is a tie to you. This is a way for you to still be in her life. And I don't pull it over Greg. No, there's been a alarm going off. Oh, okay. I was like, I'm now are you driving? Pulled over. But my point is like, this is a tie to you. And if it, if things were different, I'd say you could make the argument of like, hey, you broke things off and I want a clean break and I, I need to, you know, be free from this. Like, you could make that argument. But in this case, it doesn't make it a little tough. How much is the loan for? There's about 27 left on it. Okay. And how much is it worth, do you know? I actually did look up the Kelly Blue Book a couple weeks ago and it said that private party sale was tops like 23. Oh gosh. And it's upside down. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. This, I think this is only going to get worse. So I would really encourage her to sell it and I'd be strong on that. I'd say, listen, there's a reason that you can't, I mean, the math is like the logical reason is there's a reason you can't refinance this and the reason is the bank has looked at your financial situation and said, it's not stable. You cannot afford this on your own, which means they expect you to default, which means I'm here for when you default. That's what that means. And I don't know what the hard part is. I don't know if your relationship is there for you to even talk to her like that anymore, but that's the truth of the matter. I know because I mean, if you can't, you can't make her do anything. And so you really are kind of at the mercy of her. I'm like, you can't go in and, you know, you know, take your name off the loan and secret you can't. Right. Yeah. So it is. So yeah, you're in it. Yeah. You're in a tough position, Greg. And it's kind of one of those, I'm sorry that you're going to have to be one of the sad examples that will probably use this week to say when someone calls, I should come, my girlfriend wants me to coast side. And we're going to say, talk to Greg in Balexy. Greg would tell you don't do this because this is what happens. My family agrees. My family agrees that this is the dumbest decision I've made. Greg, my life. Oh, man. Well, I mean, unless you can just convince her because you're a great salesman, but coming from an ex fiance, she's probably not going to want to listen to her, to your advice. I mean, broke her heart. Sorry, Greg. And now you're you're going to, I mean, yeah, there's nothing you can do. So I think it's one of those stupid texts. Um, you know, and I'm praying she doesn't default me too. And she just pays this and gets out of it. But you, but that's what she has been very consistent on the payment. Yeah. Okay. What is the payment? Oh, gosh, it's almost seven. Oh, gosh. I mean, listen, the most practical thing you can do to be ready for this storm is if she defaults is if she defaults and to be ready, if you kind of have some money packed away on the side because if she doesn't pay it, it reflects on you. And when it's time for you to buy a house or when it's time for you to do some of the things that you want to do, if you still have a credit score laying around what you will, because of this, it will make it bad. And as we've talked about on the show, having a bad credit score is very difficult. We talk about having a zero credit score, which is wonderful, but this will keep you from having that. Even if you pay off all of your other debts. So if I were in your shoes, which this is the game we like to play, I would be but by the way, we don't know much about your financial situation. Do you have debt? I, the truck technically and then I have about 22,000 in student loans I'm working on. I've already got credit card debt. Well, I go, I go gung ho on your debt. I'd work the baby steps on that. And then when I was through, I would be mindful of keeping some money stacked up. Yeah, for your emergency fund. No, and this is something you may have to depend on. Exactly. And I would tell her to Greg, you don't want to emotionally be attached anymore, right? And yeah, keeps you guys somewhat together in a weird state for the future. So I'm sorry. Oh, I hate that that's happening to you. All right, that does it for this hour of the show. Stick around. We'll be right back with you before you know it. Don't let big grocery bills spoil your holiday plans. Shop at Aldi first. They've got USDA choice meats like beef pork and even your turkey along with fresh produce, holiday desserts and more. And you'll find all of them at the lowest prices of any national grocery store. A family of four can save up to $4,000 a year by shopping at Aldi. You don't need a membership or some loyalty app either. So stop overpaying this holiday season. Go to Aldi.us to find a store near you. That's Aldi.us. Things based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability and the market. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Rachel Cruz. And we are going to the phones. First up, we have Donna in San Antonio. Hi, Donna. Welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for taking my question. I appreciate it. Yes, absolutely. Okay, so my husband has a student loan that is currently in deferment, been in deferment over 10 years. Prior to that, it was in default. It ballooned from 65,000 to 340,000. Wow. We got, yeah, I know. I know. There was some fraud involved. We tried to take care of it with some attorneys. We were not able to get anywhere. We're stuck with it. We got married four years ago. Is situation is he 66 close to retirement. He doesn't really have any assets, not really know any no savings. I'm 57. Probably going to work for another five years. I've got about 1.4 million in investment assets, which are owned free and clear. We both have a joint account with Charles Schwab, which has about 200,000 in it. But it's totally funded by me. And then we have two other properties in both of our names. Couple of questions. How can I navigate negotiating this balance down for him? I'm willing to pay up to 100,000 for it. And how do I protect myself? Are they private loans or federal loans? So, they're federal loans. Gosh. They were, well, I believe they're federal loans. Yeah, I've had trouble with this. They were federal loans and then they were consolidated. Okay. So, and from what I understand, you know, I've been to so many different places. And I keep hitting a brick wall. It's like nobody can really give me the right answers. I've been told I can't negotiate. Yeah. Federal you can't negotiate if they're private. You can, but if the whole lump of, if that whole lump is federal, you owe what you owe. So, what's his best route? Does he just keep deferring it? No. He will never be able to pay these off. You know, he'll never be able to pay it. So what, tell me about the properties because I'm going to, I'll tell you what Rachel and I are going to do. And then we'll explain it. We're going to approach this as any married couple would who is dedicated their lives to each other and has decided that they're one, meaning that they're one in life and money and all of those things. And then we can go back and trace it back if we need to. But let's talk about these properties because what I think is somewhere in the assets between the two of you is the money to pay this off. I'm just. Yeah, there's definitely money. It's, I built this. I mean, we've only been married for years. Yeah. And then we're going to have the assets are mine. I mean, I've done what I needed to do and I've built. How many marriages have you guys had in the past? Donna, is this. He's been married once before and so have I. Okay. So it's both second marriages. Okay. Did you do a prenup at all? No, we didn't look, we have our wills, but we didn't do a prenup. Okay. What can I ask a little bit about that? So I'm hearing you talk and it sounds like you very much want to protect the wealth that you built. But you didn't sign a prenup, which makes me wonder about that. Like how did you, how did you view that? I didn't realize how, you know, I don't know what can I say we're soulmates. Okay. Listen, that's good to know. I did. We're soulmates and then, you know, he's a wonderful man and I'm not concerned about really protecting my assets from him. Okay. I'm working for the protecting my assets. Again, somebody coming in and swooping in a lender coming in and taking. Got it. Okay. So in that case, I loved hearing you say that because it sounded at first like when you said, oh, I'm only willing to put 100,000 towards this, it sounded like you were trying to keep your assets from him, right? Like you didn't want to spend too much on his debt. That's the way it sounded at first. But now it sounds like that's not the issue and if that's the case, can you tell us about these properties? Because the money might be there to get free of your business. It's all real estate basically. And again, they're all owned free and clear. Right. How much are into the properties? How much am I into the properties? Probably, you know, five or 600,000. So tell us probably around five or 600. Tell us property one. What's property one worth? So I've got a condo, which is probably worth around 200,000. Okay. I've got another house, which is around 250. I've got another condo, which is probably also around 200,000. Are they all owned free and clear? Yes. Oh, okay. Good for you. Yeah. Great, Donna. Did you know about his debt going into the marriage? I didn't. I knew he, what happened is his wife, his previous wife, handled all the finances. He was a stay at home. She did some funky stuff with her finances and he thought his student loans were paid off. He didn't realize until suddenly he didn't get a tax refund one year that he was in default. He didn't even know. Donna. So it really was like a big shock. And then you know, he just sometimes men just ignore things. Yeah. I think it was too emotionally overwhelming for him. And he pretty much just put it to this side. So I knew there was something I didn't realize how many years that he put it to the side. Probably about 13 years total. Okay. So there's enough of a that the shock has worn off and then we can address reality that he chose not to. Yeah. Right. Right. Well, now that's got a bother you, right? Does that bother you? Is that of course it does? Of course it does. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. But right now I'm committed to the relationship. I'm committed to my husband. That's great. I'm good. And you guys are in your 50, you just say 37 and 66. Yeah. Yeah. He's 66 on 57. Okay. And he has, why does he have no, what's he been doing? Like like with retirement and all that? He pretty much gave everything to her in the divorce. He had a situation. He was like no contest. Just give her what she wants. Give her what she wants. Yeah. Yeah. Is he working? He works for me. Actually, I have a business. Okay. He does work for me. How much is he making? We just have him making something like around 50,000. So we've been keeping it low. You know, we do, we do sort of, you know, W2. We became real estate your business. Is that your business? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I hear two things going on here. I think you're committed to this guy. You know, great. I think that you need to reach over and probably sell one of these condos and then go into the joint funds and pay this thing off. That's probably the choice that I would make. I think you guys, I'm worried that, and I'm going to say this ever so delicately, there's a, there's a balance of power here that is feels off. Yeah. And I think that if you don't address certain things, it's going to cause issues down the line. And I think I need to sit with the counter. Do you see that saying? Yeah. I think you need to sit with somebody and work through this because it almost feels like you're kind of just taking care of this guy. And it shouldn't feel like that. You should feel like you're in a marriage where equal people are really contributing. Whatever it is, they're going to contribute, but you should feel good about it. Hey, it's Dave Ramsey. You've heard me talk about the importance of giving and I love that Zander insurance lives that out. This month, Zander is donating 25% of all ID theft protection sales to team Rubicon, a veteran led disaster response organization that deploys wherever disaster strikes, boots on the ground, helping families rebuild and offering real hope for communities in crisis. Zander has been supporting causes like team Rubicon for over a decade, donating over half a million dollars. That kind of track record shows I can trust them, not just with my money, but helping protect my identity too. Zander's ID theft protection plan is the only one I recommend because let's face it. Identity theft is out of control in today's online world. It's not a matter of if, but when Zander's plan is comprehensive, affordable, and you can even give it as a gift. So protect your family and support a powerful mission this Christmas. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. That's Zander.com. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. Up next, we have Brent in Cincinnati, Ohio. Hey Brent, welcome to the show. Hi Rachel. Hello, how can we help? So I'm wondering if I'm able to purchase a car for my wife. We've been leasing to own for the three years and up come in December, we can purchase it for 19,000. The same car is valued at 23,000. Okay, so you've been leasing it for three years. What was it worth when you started? I'm just wondering how much it's depreciated. How much? No, how much was it worth? 28,000. Okay. Okay, and now it's worth 19, but you're saying you've seen it other places for 23, is that where you're telling me? Yes, with the same mind, the same year. Oh. It looks like a good deal. Yeah, do you have the money and do you like the car? We like the car, but we don't have the money, so we'd be getting alone through my credit union. Oh. And what's the alternative? You just give it up? Yes. Do you have any? My wife's very attached to the vehicle and doesn't really want to consider any cheap for options. Yeah, listen, I can understand that. Go ahead. Well, yeah, why is she attached to it? She just likes it a lot. She likes it a lot. Okay. Well, the fact that she's not going to be able to consider, she's sitting there with you Brent. Tell her, hi for us. Yeah. What's her name? Elizabeth. Hey, Elizabeth. Elizabeth. Hi, Elizabeth. So, yeah, I mean, when you put yourself in a position, when you purchase something and say, well, I'm just not, I don't want to look at anything cheaper. You've kind of already made your decision. I mean, if you guys don't have the money and you don't look at anything cheaper, I mean, I guess the only thing that you guys have decided at that point is, yeah, you're going to take a loan out and buy the car. We would advise you differently. And so you called the show. So we'll give you our advice. I don't know if you're going to want to take it because what you really did, you've been basically renting this car for three years. And the most expensive way possible. And the most expensive way. Yeah. And I know you can't really tell the interest rate on the least car, but when people, you know, actually ratio it out, it's high. It's usually more expensive than if you went got a traditional car loan. So then you're going to take a $19,000 loan, pay interest on that. And then we're going to look up in four to five years and this $19,000 car is going to go down to probably $10,000 or $12,000 in value. When it comes to cars, it is one of the places that financially speaking, I mean, it's kind of one of the dumbest debts you can get into from a financial perspective because again, you're borrowing money and paying more on that borrowed money because it interests on an asset that's going down in value versus like a house, a mortgage, right? You take out a mortgage. You do pay interest on that loan, but the value of that home is going up at the same time. So the car itself is not a wise purchase to make when you don't have cash for it. So my next question to you guys would be, do you have any cash available to you? Do we have no redox? Okay. We're still trying to get over some credit card debt. Okay. Good. How much debt do you guys have? We have $4,000 on the credit card and then we have a few monthly payments. How are those? We're still paying off our redding rings, which we have $7,000 left over. Okay. And then we have a personal loan or paying back my parents, which will be about $2,500 left. Okay. And I'm doing 500 every pay check. Okay. So towards the end of January, the 500 a month will clear up. Okay. So we're going to make a year close to $40,000 a year. Combined. Combined. Yes. Are you both working? My wife is looking at getting a new job. That could make more money soon. But we just don't have the money yet. And I don't want to make decisions on. We'll have more money later. Yeah. That's right. That's right. For sure. Absolutely. Very wise. So yeah, a $40,000 income, there's no way I would take a $19,000 loan for a car. You can't afford it. Do you guys have kids yet? No, not yet. Listen, I'm going to throw something wild out here and roll it over in your minds and in your hearts tonight. But she's not working yet. You don't have children when it comes time for this lease. Like you let it go. But if you have to be a one car family for a couple of months while you save up, what's the harm in that? Just a thought. Yeah. I suggest that my husband and I did that while we were trying to get out of debt. We got rid of one of our vehicles and we were upside down, but we got a small loan for it to get out of it. And then we had one, just our single car we paid it off. And then we actually found that it was doable for us for quite a while and we stayed that way. And then when it was ready, time for us to have a second car we bought it in cash. For you guys in this season of your life, that actually might work out better for you than a lot of other couples because she's not really working yet. And I'm going to say this, Brent, and I'm going to be very kind and fun as Rachel is. It just comes through. But what the life you guys just described to us from a financial perspective only is so normal. You have a personal loan to the parents for I'm not sure why you got wedding rings. You don't have money. So you guys took out a loan. You have some credit card debt. You have a car lease. You guys are the normal Americans out there. But the problem is Brent normal is broke. Normal is 78% of Americans today are living paycheck to paycheck. Meaning if you miss a paycheck, you don't have enough to cover your bills. So if you guys decide that you want to continue to live normally, then what you guys have so far decided is that. And normal would be to go get just keep the $19,000 car because you like it. That is normal. And you will have normal results because of it. But what we encourage people is to flip all of that under their head and actually say, what is the weirdest thing we can do? Because if I get the results of normal, which is paycheck to paycheck living and not being able to build wealth and not be going to invest or say for the future or have any amount of money in savings, I don't want to be normal. That's not where I want to be. And if you guys look at each other tonight and say, we don't want to be that. We want to be people that have no debt. We have an emergency fund. We're actually funding some retirement for the future. We have a house that we can afford. It doesn't stress us out. We have margin in our budget. Like this life that can be created, Brent, is possible, totally possible. But you can't get there if you keep doing normal things. So what Jade's saying is a one car family for a couple that doesn't have kids. Is that inconvenient? Yeah. Is that weird? Yeah. But you know what? You don't have a car payment because that car payment on the $19,000 car, it's going to be $600. Okay. That you guys don't have. Like, so you have to make different decisions if you want different results, Brent. And that's going to mean not taking it alone for a car. For you guys, the reality is a one car family. It's saying goodbye to my emotions, saying goodbye to what I want and what I love and all the things that got me to this place. And you put all that aside and you guys are like, we're adults. Yeah. And we're going to make adult like decisions and we don't have the money. We can't afford this car. You can't afford this car, Brent, at $40,000, you can't afford half of your annual income going to the value of a car. Like that, it's not good. That's not wise. And I would be working like crazy to get your income up. And I would start working to get out of debt. I mean, you guys can get all this paid off. Your debt's not crazy. I mean, it's, you know, $2,500, $4,000. Like you guys can get this cleaned up really fast. If you just say, we're going to be weird and we're going to work 60 hours a week. Because we don't have kids and we're going to take side hustles. We're going to drive Uber, right? I mean, like, here's Brent here. Let me put this in perspective. Here's a couple of interesting statistics about about cars because I want you to never go in and have a car payment again. Number one, Rachel just said 78% of the people living paycheck to paycheck, right? 85% of people who bought, who get a car, take out a loan or at least to get it. And I think that's a very interesting correlation. Almost everybody. Almost everybody, which is almost the same percentage of people living paycheck to paycheck. And for most people, that car payment is about $525 a month, which is very close to where you guys were at. And if you invested that instead of give it to a car company, what would that be? Well, think about it. Most new car payments are over a term of six years. If you had listened to us and invested that money over the last six years, you'd have $85,000 instead of a car debt that's gone down in value. And so be weird, Brent. Be weird. The calendar might have flipped, but the way to win with money hasn't changed, living on a budget, staying out of debt and building wealth intentionally. Now, here's the deal. Most banks make their money when you don't do that. They're fine if you stay broke and frustrated. And that's why I recommend Fair Winds Credit Union. They actually want you to win with money. Their smart bundle gives you a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account, and the new Ramsey Be Weird debit card that says debt is normal, be weird, right on the front. It's not just a card, it's a statement. Because every time you use it, it says you control your money. Your money doesn't control you. So this year, stick to your plan, don't chase gimmicks or points, and partner with a credit union that helps you make progress in the baby steps. Visit fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to take control of your money and stay weird. Fair Winds is federally insured by the NCUA. We're always thankful for the listeners of the show, the people that view it on YouTube and watch us. Yes. But one of the best ways to help spread the word is to share the show with the people that you know, your friends, your family, even on your social media feeds. But even subscribing, leaving reviews, all of that helps because with the algorithms of today, when you're able to get this show in front of people that may not know about it, just like our last caller, he just said he just found us like two days ago on Facebook. Yeah, around Facebook, because I would always said, and yeah, and it's great because we want to be able to help people. That's our goal for the show. And the more people we can help, the better we're doing at our jobs is where we look at it. So thank you again, you guys for subscribing and sharing. We really, really appreciate it. All right, up next we have Wanda in Los Angeles. Hey Wanda, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you so much. It's really a pleasure to be on the show. Thank you for taking my call. So I do apologize. Some hot verbal is the excitement in the coffee couple together. You're good. Wanda, you're great. How can we help? So I recently got a divorce and I owe my husband $50,000 and I'm not quite sure where to take the money from or borrow the money from for the $50,000. I don't have any money in my savings. I owe $25,000 on my car, $12,000 to my 401K. And my other expense is my home in my mortgage is $24.70 a month. I look into refinance and I really don't want to refinance my house because my interest rate on my house is $2.25. So I've been looking at other like HELOC personal loans, personal loan is like 12%, the HELOC is 10%. And I just don't know what to do. Okay, so Wanda, yeah, $50,000 is it because of the house? Are you supposed to give him the equity? Yes, I'm supposed to give him the equity out of the house. Originally, I was supposed to give him $150,000, but he knows that he didn't put any money into the house or anything like that. So he settled and said, I'll take $50,000. So I'm just trying to figure out the best course to give him the $50,000. I did take on a second job. I've been working the second job now for about three months. I haven't received any money for it because I just haven't turned in invoices because what's the time frame that you owe the $50,000? It's supposed to be, because we went back to court. So it's 30 days after the court ruling. And I got the court ruling in the mail two weeks ago. So I have, yeah, yeah. So into basically into two to three weeks, it's due? Yes. Okay. So let me kind of set the stage for this right quick. Is his name on the mortgage? I guess you know the deed or the title of the house. It is. So typically, typically what would happen if you're divorced, you would do a refinance to get his name off of it and you would do a cash out refinance so that you could also pull the $50,000 out, give him his money and now you're free and clear from that. But I see why you don't want to do that because of the interest rate. But I now double check this because I'm not sure. But I feel like you can, when you refinance, you don't necessarily have to refinance the entire entire mortgage. Yeah. But just the amount that you're a portion of it. Yes. Yeah. And so a portion of it would be at the old interest rate and a portion of it would be at the new interest rates. Yeah. Have you talked to your lawyer, Wanda, about different options when it, because considering it's because of the house and his name is on it, so you are going to have to get his name off the home. Yeah. Right. So what I was advised was I actually talked to the accountant. And so what I was advised to do was to do a quick deed to take his name off the title and he agrees to stay on the loan, let his name stay on the loan because if I asked him to take his name off the loan, they may make me refinance anyway. And then I lose a tour in a quarter. And so he said he was agreeable with his name being on the loan and he was just quick deed to home into my name. Yeah. Yeah. A quick deed is definitely a great option when it comes to the situation. Yeah. I mean, I mean, and we never tell people to go and take on debt, but there is a point that you're, you're going to be owed this from a legal standpoint. Yeah. You have to give that money in Wanda. You don't have it right now. And so I don't want to see you take equity out of your home and get into that mess of a healer or anything like that. So it may just have to be a personal loan. Okay. Even though the interest rate for the personal loans is just through the roof. Well, I mean, from the court of law, you have to give this money. So either Wanda, you sell your home and you know, do we take the, take the equity and pay him what he's due and you have to go find a new situation. Are you able to sustain the home that you're in? Oh, most definitely. Most definitely. Okay. Yeah. The house has now worked almost 700,000. When we purchased the house, it was at $391. And so. How much you owe on it. How much you owe on it. $360. Okay. And in California, I came by another house at $391. And not in the area that I live in. Sure. Sure. How much you make. How much are you making. I make $188,000 a year. Good for you, Wanda. And you're bringing. How much are you bringing home after taxes and insurance and everything. per month. What's your take on pay? A little over 6000. Okay. Yeah. I mean, and your mortgage payments 2000. Yeah. So you're in. But and that's the reason why I got a second job too because whatever I do, I want to chop it down with the second job. For sure. For sure. For sure. Because I don't know which way to go with that yet. 100%. Yeah. I mean, I mean, you're kind of stuck between a hard place. I don't want you to make a bad decision with your home. I think that would be unwise. So it's not this idea that like, you know, it's one thing if you couldn't afford the payment on your income, but you're able to sustain that, which is wonderful and great. But yeah, I would, I would, yeah, do the, yeah, do the quick deed. I would again, ask, ask the accountant again, wrap back around and just ask what Jade was talking about. And if there's a way to take a portion of it, where you're able to pay him out of it. And and the entire loan is not then, you know, subject to the new interest rates because that would be that would not be smart. And it's a blessing that he dropped from 150 to 50,000. That's a big blessing. Yeah. So so wander. I mean, I'm looking at this. So let's just say you have you have you have $50,000 in debt because of the divorce. You got a $25,000 car and you got a $12,000 401k debt. Seven eight. I mean, that's yeah, that's 87,000. You make 188,000. I want you to pay this off in 18 months, Wanda. That's why I got a second. Yeah, which I'm so proud of. Seriously. So yeah. And that's the thing is, you know, that when you when you look at this high income, I'm like, man, this is and I know you're in Southern California, so it doesn't go as far as it would in Kansas City or something. I get it. But man, you you have a lot on your side, Wanda, but but from this point forward, I want you to draw that line in the sand and say, no more, I'm not doing car payments. We're not doing credit cards. We're not, you know, borrowing our 401k. I am living on what I make. I'm going to be, you know, funding retirement. I mean, why is because I mean, how old are you? Wanda? 55. 55. Yeah. So 55 this year. Yeah. So yeah, here in five to 10 years, wanting to retire, you know, and do something with your life. And you're you're going to be able to make a lot of progress really quickly, which which I'm so excited for you. So congratulations. I'm so sorry that it that, you know, with the divorce and everything that's kind of brought you to this point, that's always heartbreaking and grief in of itself. That's that's so hard. But, but you have a lot, a lot of great change ahead. And a lot of things that's yeah, that you can do and make a big, a big impact. Thank goodness that he was a good guy and was like, I know I didn't put any money into this house. Right. It could have been 150. Yeah. I mean, that's I think that's the really difficult part about one of the many difficult parts about divorces. There's all these assets and it's like somebody gets to keep the house. But if you've been living in that house together, there's also a portion of it that goes to the other spouse. And so how do they get their money? And so that's right. That's one of the frustrating things. And I know like during these times where interest rates is like, if I had it you know, 2.3%. You don't want to refinance in order to with these rates. And so I think that's very painful. Yes, for sure. Yep. And again, it's one of these things that to tackle the death snowball method and even looking at the car. I mean, she's still, she can pay off her car in 18 12 to 18 months. One kind of, you know, buffers. So she can keep the car, pay it off. It's not an outrageous, you know, different amount considering her income. But she never needs to borrow from her 401k. No, never again. No, Wanda, you hear me. Thanks for calling in. This is at the Ramsey Show. The last thing you need this holiday season is more stuff collecting dust or tech that keeps you glued to screens and up too late. You need better sleep. And that's what you'll get with Casper. Their mattresses are made for deep uninterrupted rest that keep you cool and comfortable. So you wake up feeling ready, not wrecked. Because rest is not a luxury. It's an investment. And the ROI is your well-being. So go to Casper.com slash Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey for 25% off mattresses and 10% off everything else yet free shipping too. That's Casper.com slash Ramsey promo code Ramsey. Exclusion's apply. Buying or selling your home, it's a really big deal. And you want an expert in your quarter fighting for you to get the best deal and the best price honestly. It's probably your largest set that you're ever going to buy or sell. So you want this to be a really smooth process. And the Ramsey Trusted program is the only way to find a top agent that you can trust. Who will make sure that your home is a blessing and not a burden. And it's easy because you can compare agent profiles, interview them and choose the right one that you want to work for you. So find a local trusted real estate pro for free at RamseySolutions.com slash agent or click the link in the description. If you're listening to this on podcasts or watching on YouTube, we mentioned in an earlier segment, Jade, that you know about college and school and all of it. And it is teacher financial literacy month or teacher appreciation month and financial literacy month. And we just appreciate teachers around here. I know Jade and I both have kids in school. And when you have teachers who are part of your own story from being in school. And now if you have kids that are in school, they're just such a gift like these teachers are just absolutely incredible. We love them. So we do want to honor them. So make sure to enter our teacher appreciation giveaway at rs.com slash teacher. Yes. And we want to celebrate you. So make sure to check that out, teachers. All right, let's go to Sarah in Philadelphia. Hi Sarah. Welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. Absolutely. How can we help? Okay, so just really quick. So when I turned 18, I got married to a man who's about 14 years old. It didn't me. We ended up getting a divorce. It was like a really controlling situation. But in the midst, I did get pregnant right as soon as I got married. So I have a baby now. She's going to be five months in May. And so he doesn't help financially. I did stay home after I had the baby. I was leaning on him financially. And even when we were together, I didn't go to school. So the good part is I don't have any debt or anything. But the bad part is like I don't have like a career path because I went by it into being like wife and mother and everything. And now I just like need help with like yeah. Do you know where is your parents, your family situation through all of this from when you got married now? So we got married and like my parents were not super happy with the idea of me getting married. Not because they didn't want me getting married. I can't hear the circumstances. Yeah. And they probably picked up some things around town that they probably didn't like being a 34-year-old. Yeah. Exactly. And then so we ended up getting a divorce. I'm staying in my parents now because he took me to my house. Okay. Wow. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah. And it's okay. Actually, his family has been not his family. His brother and his brother's wife have been great throughout this. They let me stay in their house for two weeks without like turning me anything. They were super helpful when everything happened. They were like listen, whatever you need, we're here for you. Like his brother, his brother's wife will call me every day. His brother was always like, if you need any help with a baby, like we're here. Yeah. That's great. You need that community right now. Like if you have that to depend on, I would because the truth is if you are going to get out of this, it's going to require you working some hours, like working a full-time job probably to support your family. And childcare is going to be a huge piece of this. So the question then becomes is what can you do for money, right? Yeah. So I think I'm staying home with my mom. Like my parents are thankfully well off. So like it's a place that I can stay and I don't have to worry about like well, what about the bills and about, you know, my parents are like, okay, with all that stuff, it's just like I just don't know where to go from here. You know, it's not like I'm in any danger right now. I just don't know where to go for you right in life. Yeah, turning because you'll be, yeah, turning 20 and all of it. Okay. So I just because of what you've gone through Sarah, from a divorce standpoint, having a child and I never want to minimize someone because of their age, but I'm going to say because you're 19. I mean, like you're a kid where you're still a teenager technically 90 right? So yeah. So so all of those factors, I do want to give you so much grace. Like you're still a teenager. You're still figuring out how the world works, let alone the responsibility and the events that you've walked through through a divorce already, right? So like just we have a lot of time here, Sarah. There is no, I do not feel like this is a rush situation. There's a lot, a lot of grace here. Yeah, I'm like sliding down. You're not like a hilly, you know? Oh, yes. Yeah, if you feel a probably out of control. So I understand that. Yeah. But you're not sliding down in an unresponsible way financially or something, right? You're fine. Okay. So I just want you to just like I have, I have no debt. If I have a lot of credit cards, it's like $40. Like I have no debt. I have money. So I think don't know what to do. Yeah. As the divorce final is all of that done. Any legal bills or anything outstanding there. So that's finished. And as he have any responsibility, like from the divorce, any child support coming in any. I'm sorry. Oh, okay. She has to file child support. So this is only, yeah, this has only been a month. I have to file still and I'll for divorce or child support. Yeah. File for divorce. So you're not, okay. So it's not even okay. Yeah. Okay. All right. And yeah. So yeah, that's why I'm like, I feel like everything. Do you have a good lawyer? Do you do you have someone? I don't legal representation. Okay. So that would be step one. That's going to be step one. Yeah. Is to find someone in your area who's who's who's a great divorce lawyer. I mean, you're going to want somebody they're supporting you and representing you. So I would honestly, Sarah, I would make that step one is to find that person because when you file all this is about to it's about to snowball into a lot of things and and you're going to probably you or your parents will be paying yeah, for some of this too. So so that would be my first goal. Find somebody and then figure out, okay, from a money standpoint. How is this working? How yeah, how much are we going to have to have because that's going to allow you to know where it hasn't helped with the baby since she was born. And he might he might even it'll probably take a court order for him to and even still he might not. And so for you, I think yeah, I'm just trying to figure out like what I do without like, I'm trying not to depend on him at all. Well, don't depend on him. Don't depend on him. Yeah. Well, what Rachel says right first step you get the divorce lawyer second step you sit down with mom and dad and say, okay, we we're getting the divorce lawyer. How do we pay for this and find out what help you have and what help you don't have. And in that same conversation, that's also a good time to figure out, okay, mom and dad, like this thing is happening. I don't live with him anymore and kind of figure out what create a plan and a vision for the future, right? It's how long can I stay here? What's that got to look like? And guys, everybody set really clear expectations of what that means. Do I can do can I stay here for a year? Can I stay here for it and really talk this through because then when you know what the plan is, you'll feel better. And then you'll know what you can actually focus on. If you know that you have 12 months and then at 12 month point, your parents expect you to either start paying some sort of rent or I don't know what you'll decide. But then that will inform, okay, what do I need to do next? Yeah. And I would say too, you know, because we always do talk about that expectation, like what Judd's Jade saying. And in this case, Sarah, you know, maybe that expectation is dependent upon your next step and how long the divorce takes. It may even be of if you need to go back to school. And while you're in school, you can stay with them, right? So it's kind of mapping out. And again, this is not an arrest, Sarah, I have for you. I really don't feel like you have to do all of us tonight by any means. But this is kind of your next big steps is finding the lawyer filing, starting that process. And then in the meantime, because it's good for you to Sarah to be thinking through what does my future look like to Judd's point. So what is the next steps? What does it look like and just paying a broad stroke of like, okay, if I'm 23, what does it look like for me to self-sustained? That's right. To pay rents. Oh, that, do I need a college degree to do that? Do I love, you know, accounting? And I probably need to go get, you know, a degree in that. I actually worked as like a secretary for several construction businesses. I like doing that. Okay. So again, yeah, administration is probably really high up in your skill set. Yeah. So finding those kind of things and then backing out from there and say, okay, you know, would I be able just to plug in with one or two businesses around to be able just to start working, you know, maybe in the next six months? That's great. Or do I need to go back to school, right? And then with your parents being that safety net for you right now, how much are they willing to be a safety net financially for you right now and from a time housing perspective? That's right. Which A to say. But Sarah, stay on the line. I'm going to get you, Ken, Coleman's book, Find the Work Your Wire to Do. Because that'll help in that mindset. And I think it could just be refreshing to you to have a level of grasp and control over your future. But I'm so sorry about all of this. And we just pray that it's a smooth process for you from here on out. Thanks for the call. Welcome back to the Ransy show in the Fairwinds credit union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz with Jade Warshaw. And we're going to Gabrielle in Los Angeles, California. Hi Gabrielle. Welcome to the show. Hello Jade. Hello Rachel. It's Gabriel. Sorry. Okay, bro, gosh, I'm sorry. My bad. Thank you, Gabriel, for the for the fix. How can we help? All right. I was calling on behalf of my mom. She's 72. She's a widow who never remarried. Currently, she's retired. She's active in her church. And she has a home that's almost paid off. It doesn't include taxes and insurance. But lately, she's been asking me for money. It started off small, but it's starting to escalate. How can I help her protect her being independent, but also set up her finances wisely for the future without becoming dependent on me or my siblings? Yeah, for sure. How old are you? I'm 40. You're 40. Okay. And her house is almost paid off. Is she is she's still working? She's not. Okay. So she's retired. Is she do you know, do you have any idea numbers of what's in her retirement? She's currently receiving as far as her retirement savings. She does. I believe she's exhausted them. So she's current in the only income coming in as well. Security. Do you know what that is? I believe it was like 1113 100 possibly. Oh, wow. And do you know? Do you know what her mortgage is and what she has left on the mortgage in full? So the mortgage currently, outstanding balances around 100K. Okay. And then the mortgage payment is around, I'd say, 1450. Oh gosh. Okay. Well, yeah. So how is she paying for everything? Right now I have my oldest sister who's living with her and I believe they're splitting the cost of the mortgage. Okay. So they're half and half. Okay. So it's that 700 and then everything else. I mean, is she able to pay for your sister splitting other bills? Do you know like like Tristory Water? All that. Yeah. So from what I understand is that my other siblings, she approaches each sibling individually and for help. Yeah. Whether it's covering a bill or a few dollars here and there. Yeah. And it's for real needs. It's not for yeah. Is she able to go to work? Is she able to work? She is able-bodied. However, she hasn't worked in some time. Yeah. That's so hard. I mean, the reality is she either get me if she has no money and all she's getting is social security. It's not enough to your point when taxes are due for property tax. I mean, when she pays off the house, you know, she's got to pay for property tax and all that. What's the home worth? I'm just curious if she were to sell it. If she were to sell it, what would it be worth? Conservatively, probably about 1.1 million. It's a five bedroom three bath as far as her renting up a room that's also been thrown around. I hate that for her. Require me involving myself. Yeah. I'm just wondering about- Is there like a- Go ahead, Jason. I'm just wondering because my head is at she's 72. She's still fairly young and she's in good health. She could live till 92. Right? So in my mind, I- in my mind, I look at one million dollars that she stands to take away from this and I go, okay, we can throw a decent amount and invest it and start that fund going and then maybe she can buy a condo for, you know, two, five-year three hundred. I mean, you're in Los Angeles. I don't know what's there. What's possible? Can she buy something that's very small just for her? And then your sister goes and does her own thing because I'm also thinking what happens if the sister moves out and gets married or moves on in life, right? So there's a lot of variables here. I'd love for her to get some hands on that money, get some of it invested and get some of it in a smaller modest living space for her. Yeah, I think that's what I envision for her. I just don't know where to start. I think if I do get the ball rolling, I'm seeing it through start to finish. Yeah. So where would I start? Well, I would start with is everybody in Los Angeles, like your whole family, or do you have family that lives in less expensive areas of the country? No, we're all basically based out of the Los Angeles area. Have you looked at or would you know price ranges of again, a very modest one-bedroom condo as she could purchase. One bathroom, one bath condo, purchase outright, possibly in the area of worrying, like around a little outskirts. Well, yeah, because she's got to be able to afford it. 400. 400, okay. Okay. So then she could invest 500, you know, yeah, I'm not mad at that. And get that ball rolling. And then again, if she's able to not pull from those investments and maybe for just three years work somewhere, just to pay, just the, you know, just mortgage, I'm sorry, not mortgage, hopefully it's paid for. Yeah. Taxes. Taxes, you know, lights, water, food, and just not touch that money as long as possible and let it grow and then live off of that. Because it's either going to be that or or you guys as a as grown kid adults, I'll have to say, okay, mom's not going to be able to afford this long term. Are we going to be willing to support her in it? So that would be a conversation that you guys have. Will she sell? Do you, I mean, if you imagine yourself bringing this up to her, what does that look like? The last time that I brought up the conversation to her, it was emotional. Yeah, for me, it's pretty straightforward. I mean, the way that we're talking right now is the way that I talk with her. And you know, she's open to it. But again, she kind of pushes the work onto me. So yeah, and so do my siblings. Do they kind of look to you, your sisters too, to say like, what do you think? No, they don't have an opinion. Okay. As far as what she should do, they feel that, you know, it's our home that we grew up in and that's how it should hold on to it. And she's only got such and such ways to go. Listen, there's no, there's no getting around the fact that this is emotional. Like I'm telling people all the time, that plays such a factor in how we manage the money. But if we look at the numbers, the math is not emotional. She doesn't have any money. She doesn't have anything. And she's healthy. She has a lot of years ahead of her. So she's got to get to the point where the comfort, the discomfort of staying the same is more uncomfortable than changing, right? And that's going to, you're starting, she's going to start to feel the cracks in that when you guys stop supplying the money, if that makes sense, the more that you got, and it's your choice, but the more that you say, okay, we'll float it, we'll float it, we'll float it, just know that it'll float through the, for the next 20 years. Yeah. So you guys have to kind of get on the same page of saying, we can talk to her about this, but if she doesn't do it, we have to allow her to feel it because when she feels it is when she's going to realize, okay, I have a difficult choice to make. And just try to support her as much as you can. And it is emotional. It is tough. It's your family home. There's nothing comfortable about that. But the solution off the rise outside the comfort zone. So it sounds like my next steps might be like two part, right? It's kind of initiating that conversation with my mom about selling the home possibly. And then as far as with my siblings, it's having that conversation, if we're good to do this, we need to stop enabling her and giving her money, essentially. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that, I mean, that's what I would do. And even pull some options, you can even get in touch with one of our real estate pros, yeah, just to look for the area, like what's in the areas of where you guys are, just different options condo wise. And you know, there could be one a mile down so she doesn't have to move major locations, right? Maybe it's just the actual home itself, right? Rent some numbers and kind of get some more facts around it. But yeah, this is, this is difficult. Hey, George Campbell here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's real estate home base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love? So if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals, go to ramseysolutions.com slash real estate. That's ramseysolutions.com slash real estate. When it comes to debt or building wealth, people often can forget an important step when it comes to reaching their goals and that's having insurance and having the right coverage or too little or too much can really impact how long it takes you to build wealth. So skimping on insurance might feel like saving, but when life happens, it is not great because you may not have a safety net that you need and we don't want debt to be that safety net. So the right insurance acts as a shield around your loved ones and your wallet if disaster strikes. And in some cases, it can save you money if you're paying too much for insurance. So how do you know if you have the right coverage? Make sure to take the coverage checkup. It's an online free resource that creates a personalized insurance action plan for you that's unique to your situation and it makes an overly confusing topic really easy to understand and gives you the next step specifically for you and your situation. So go to ramseysolutions.com slash checkup to take the coverage checkup or click the link in the description if you are watching on YouTube or listening on podcast. Up next we have Derek in San Jose. Hi Derek, welcome to the show. Hey Rachel, a big fan is the real honor to speak with you. Thanks so much for taking my call. Absolutely, thanks for calling in. How can we help? So I recently got engaged. My fiance and I are both 36 years old. We're looking to start a Brady bunch. We've got five kids between 10 and 12 between 10 and 12 as I was she said. Yeah, I have twin sons who are 11 and she has a 10-year-old, 11-year-old and 12-year-old. That's going to be a house. Well, that's fun. So great. Yeah, it's been really fun. Yeah, so the reason I'm calling is because we have a pretty large difference in assets. And I think based on your advice, the advice would be that we should get a prenup. So I have roughly $12 million and she has roughly $50,000. And so we started the process of looking into a prenup and it's been an emotional one and I totally understand why. And I think especially like we went through a questionnaire talking together about it, but then when we got the first draft back from my lawyer, that's when she's really not been feeling good about it. And I understand the concern. So I mean, she feels like I wouldn't be fully entering the marriage in the same way that she is because it feels like I'm holding assets like separately off to the side. And I'm sensitive to that and especially in some of the contexts of her former relationship. And so I'm just looking for maybe more clarity and like what you guys would recommend. Oh man, this is a hard one because it is, I think it is a wise decision to do one. And I say that even more, I have a friend who's going through not a great situation. And she came in with a lot more. And now he's just, I mean, it was, it's just messy. It's messy, messy. And there's a level, again, you're not, you're, you're hoping and praying, obviously, that this is the one and that it's going to last a lifetime. But as you guys have experienced, you know, there is a reality to all of this. And whenever we, any of us get married, right? I think there is like this like, okay, I'm choosing you for a reason and for a lifetime. But but we also don't live under a rock and know that things change in life and situations come up and unfortunately some really hard things happen and does cause as marriages to break up, right? To, to enter into divorce and we don't want that. So what were the part, I'm curious, what were the parts of it that was making her, because you guys went through a questionnaire together and it didn't sound like the questionnaire brought up a lot of red flags, but when she was actually like reading it, does she feel like she won't be taking care of if something happens or like what's the, what's that underlying concern? Yeah, yes. And I think especially like, you know, her kids as well too. And it's something that I want to address. And I think we could address like in a will or like some other document or method after we get married. And it's something that I want to do. Like I absolutely would want her and her kids to be taking care of to have something, you know, didn't happen to us. I think it also, it feels very condescending to her that like the, but that either she, and I don't see it being a problem for her at all. Like my goal in this and I think that's what your advice is that in our case that I know it's rare, it would help protect our marriage. And that's what I want to do. But I totally understand that she feels condescending like to her, maybe her and her family and her friends that they might be a problem. And if we would need this to like protect against them. Can I ask how, how like stringent this prenup is, like how strict it is? Because when I've heard calls about this before, my question is always, is there a way that this can be more progressive that over maybe over time and over years, some of the restrictions fall off? Like does that make sense to where it's like the longer word together? And the more that this feels right, some of this starts to fall off and now we start to become one. And after a while, it's all gone. And we are one. Is there anything built in like that? So there's nothing currently built in like that. So other than that, it's pretty basic. So everything we enter into the marriage with this separate property, except she has a small amount of debt and she's been awesome about eliminating debt, especially the situation she came from. But I don't want her to carry it all. Like I would just pay it off. And then everything after the date of the marriage is shared. So income that I make or she made, we just share it. Our plan is that she would stop working. She'd be able to be home with all these kids. Does that include interest on the 12 million? Like as that grows or does any growth on that 12 million remain yours? Yeah. So at least as it's currently structured, the growth in that would remain mine. I think we have talked about it's not in the documents, but like if I were to stop working to also help with the kids, which would be an option like the income that we drew from that would be considered our income. I think I would. Yeah, I'd be wondering about that. If I were entering in that marriage, like how can we protect what you've already created? But how can I be a player and how that grows from here on out? Like how can I be a part of that? I think I might be wondering about that. That's tough, man. Yeah, and then the only other additional part is we're planning to get a house. And I was just going to buy the house. We title it in both of our names. I just consider a community property. Yeah. Yeah, well, it sounds like you're being very gracious about the Stereic. I think it's such a hard line to be wise in a situation and being, I mean, you don't sound like you're drawing these crazy hard lines and you're not even meaning you're pushing it like it's your tone feels very humble and gracious, which I, yeah, I mean, I think she probably very much appreciates. So yeah, I'm trying to think if I were in her position, which you never can fully do for somebody, there's a part of me that I don't know. I think I would understand you're coming in with 12 million. And I understand that's not mine right now, right? Like there's, I don't know. Yeah, this one's hard for me. I, I, are you an anti-prinous? No, I'm not, I would not go that far. I think it's just, it's, it's, it is a very tough way to start out a marriage, clearly, because we're dividing yours versus mine. And everything else in the marriage is out as we say we us hour. So it is tough. And if you're a person, let's, you know, I'll put myself in the issues. Uh, me, I've always viewed, oh, when you end her marriage, it's like this. Yes. You don't know who you're going to fall in love with. And that person happens to be loaded. And now suddenly you're like, Oh, this picture I had of it being hours is not possible. That's just tough. And I think it's wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think too, Derek, I think it's too, I think it can feel like the 12 million off in this corner. And it's never, we're never going to participate in it. But I think the, it comes into its mind if something happens. But up until that point, it's hours, like we're sharing assets. That's a good point. That is a very good point. We are living our lives together as one. But for some reason, if if something ever happened in a divorce, this part still goes back to me. Does that make sense? I wonder if framing it. That's a good way to frame it. Because that, because that, because it, it can be hers, right? Like you guys can share on this. It's the only time it's not hers is if you guys lately go through a divorce. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. It's really makes sense. And that is how we want to live. Yeah. Yeah. And it sounds like that's, yeah. And that sounds like you're attitude because you're going to take some of our money and we're going to buy a house together with this money and use this money for our family. So I think it's, it's such a fine line, Derek. I mean, it's so hard. But I think I would keep it and bringing a third party. If there's a great marriage counselor with air, but it's honestly, it's something to, to think through and even get other opinions. Because yeah, you want to be on the same page with this. Hey, do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with money, but still stuck? I was you in debt, running hard, but taking three steps forward and two steps back turns out it's not the numbers. It's the fact that changing our ways with money is emotional. That's why I wrote my brand new book, would no one tells you about money, to help you push past what's really been sabotaging your progress so you can finally win. You can pre-order now and score over $100 in free bonus items. But only if you order by January 5th, go to ramseysolutions.com slash store today. The all new every dollar is here and it is way more than just the incredible budgeting app that it is. It now has tons of advanced features to help you make progress with your money so much faster. And the average person is finding thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. So get every dollar for free starting today. Just get it in the app store or Google play. All right, let's go to Alex and Grand Rapids. Michigan. Hey, Alex, welcome to the show. Hi there. Thanks so much for taking my call. Absolutely. I am 28 and debt free. I'm looking to buy a tiny house to put on my parent's property without a credit score now. And a tiny house technically not qualifying for a mortgage. How do I go about getting a loan for it? Well, let's talk about the loan process and then we'll talk about the tiny house on your parent's property. So with the loan process, if you have no credit score, you're just going to have to find a place that does manual underwriting for that. Now, we would recommend Churchill mortgage. There are companies that do that and you just have to check and make sure they'll do it in your area. But it's the same process. You're just going to have to show different trade lines. You're going to have to show your pay subs. You're going to have to show proof of income. If you work for yourself, you're going to have to show your tax returns that sort of thing. But for the most part, the process is the same. But how much, but you're saying it isn't qualified for a mortgage because it's a tiny house? Correct. Yeah. So if it's under 400 square feet, I'm looking at a 50 square feet. It doesn't qualify for a mortgage. What's the cost of it? I'm looking at about 40 to 50 thousand. Oh, save up and pay for it, Alex. I'm sorry. Save up and pay for it. It's like a car. Right now I only have about 10,000. Just wait a little bit. Yeah. So just put, you put some money aside to 3,000 a month and just work your way up and then probably 12, 18 months, then you can do it. Can I ask the long-term strategy on this? Yeah. So I have autism and I can't really live independently. I know it's pseudo-independent being on my parents' property. Got you. Got you. Okay. What are you doing for work? I coordinate volunteers for hospice. Cool. Are your parents involved at all? Alex, in this process, would they be able to help you? Not financially now, but they've been great support. Okay. Okay. Great. How long did it take you to save up the 10,000? I just finished. I got a debt-free in February and then saved up like 6,000 for my Emerge Food A Six-Month Emergence Fund. And it's so, I don't know, last six months. Okay. Yeah. I'm with Rachel. Just keep saving for this. It seems like you've thought through the best way for you to live. And I like that you've thought through that. I don't think you need to go into debt for this and for anybody who is listening to my zero-score spiel, that's for the mortgage. No, but that's it. No, they're trying to do a full mortgage on zero credit score. But yeah, save up for it. I like the 40 to 50,000. Just understand that you, that this is yours. Like the resale on this virtually doesn't exist because it's on your parents' property and this is money that you'll likely never get back. So understanding that is important, I'd say. Yeah. Yeah. So, running that, yeah. I mean, so it will, are you able to pick up extra work, Alex? Yeah, I'm looking for a second part-time job. Okay. Good for you. You sound incredible. I mean, the fact, I mean, you're very ambitious. You're very well-spoken. You know what you want. You've been doing the baby steps. You've been debt-free. You've got your fully funded emergency fund. I mean, you're literally doing it all. The only thing that's going to suck is like the next probably three years of saving for this. You know what I mean? You would just look at it like, you know, and people want to save up for a car. They want to save up for a college education, right? And these numbers, these are big numbers. I'm definitely not downplaying that. It's just, so it's going to just take you longer to do it. And even though I guess technically, you know, I guess you could ramse, you know, go through it to say, well, but a mortgage is the one type of debt. Sure. And this is for a house, but the fact that there is no resale because the one reason we do say a mortgage, not only is because it is the most expensive thing that you're ever going to purchase as a home, but also homes go up in value over time. And this is more like a car in a sense where it's going to go down in value. And so getting into debt even a personal loan for this financially would not be wise. So it really would be you putting money aside. And I mean, I don't know about the market in tiny homes. Is there a, can you, can you buy or buy used ones? Can you buy a used one? Yeah, that's what I'm looking at. Okay. I'm on like Facebook marketplace. Okay. Okay. And so maybe you could even Alex, I don't know, because for some people, they may want it off their property. They, there may be some urgency to get one off. So maybe you could even negotiate with them and say, hey, if I have cash, you know, what's the lowest, you wouldn't be able to do that today because you don't have that amount. But when you're getting closer to that and you know, three years or something, I mean, you may be able to negotiate. Okay. For, for a lower price. Yeah. Absolutely. I'll accept. Thanks for the call. And again, I think, yeah, I just want to do that. I wouldn't go the down routes. I wouldn't either. And because you never know, especially if you're already buying it used. Yes. What type of resale would be yeah, on maybe, you know, selling it in the future. Yeah. Absolutely. All right. Let's go to Elijah in Salt Lake City. Hi, Elijah. Welcome to the show. Hey, how's it going? I just have a question. I am 22 years old. I'm currently going to college right now. I'm almost done with my bachelor's degree. I have only about a year left. I'm only about 14,000 in student loan debt. So almost done. But yeah, that's my only debt. No credit card debt. Nothing, no car loan, nothing like that. And I guess my question is, well, I'm looking to be going along enforcement after, um, after I graduate. I guess my question is, is it worth it to stay for a master's degree if I get an actual like paying incentives for the rest of my career? Or if I should just once I get my bachelor's degree, take that paying incentive and just start working. Well, what would it cost you to get your master's? How would you pay for it? So that one would be it would be loans. Um, but it would be for total about master's degree admin. I've been doing my research about 18,000 for the college that I'd be going to. And what's the difference in job that you would get if you just went into the police department with a bachelor's versus a master's? Yeah. So if I went in with a bachelor's degree, I'd be getting a 3% paying incentive for the rest of my career. If I went in with a master's degree, I'd be getting 5% paying incentive. So I guess my question is it would take a long time to repay that. I get that money worth. Yeah. That extra 2% every year. But I do really enjoy college. I do want to get married before I leave college and I enjoy my hobbies. So I just don't know if it's, if it's makes financial sense to get a master's degree. Not on debt. Not on debt, but I'm wondering if there's a way that you can cash flow. Are you, are you working at all? And my next question is, do you have to do it right away? Or can you work on it later while you're in enforcement and still get the 5% bump? Yeah, you can still get the 5% bump. I just heard from a lot of people that, you know, it's really hard once you're starting this time job to go back. Yeah. I mean, how much, how much are you getting paid like your first year that you're working? So yeah, first year, with a bachelor's degree would be about 90K. Okay. And then with a master's degree, if I came in first year, it would be about 95. Okay. So that's my thing is that the percentage wise is not big a large. I mean, it's you were talking maybe a $4,000 difference and you could do that in two months with a side gig. You know what I mean? Like, so there's a part of me and I know, I mean, we have friends and law enforcement and they even move around. They get up to detective or they, you know, move around within it. Yeah. That can change your pay over time as well. So, yeah, I think if you had the money and you wanted to do it, I don't think I mean, I don't think I would stop you. But also, since you don't have the money, it's kind of that's a no go for me personally. Okay. Yeah. So you would just, you would, okay. So you wouldn't be, okay, you know, taking out student loans. No, no, no. Okay. Yeah, I'd get this paid off and, man, I wish we had a ramsy dating act because I feel like we had a lot of calls of some ladies that are always single, Elijah, and they're always looking for a man and we could have pointed them your way. I know. I know. No, I appreciate the, the, the, the proactiveness of love. I do. I do. Because I do think that's great. I am for getting married young and, you know, and what he said is true. Like, when you're in college, there's people right there to choose from. Once you get out in the world, it's like, I got to work. I got to go out. After hours exhausting. You know, absolutely. I gotta go to an event, get dressed up. College, it's like you got your pick right there. Got him right there. Oh, Elijah. Yeah, I hope that helps. So yeah, if there's not the cash, but to Jade's point, if you're able to somehow cash flowed or even if you get into a situation where they help pay for half of it, I don't know. You know, the your work, that would be incredible too. So I hope that helps. And yeah, good luck. Everywhere you turn right now, you're being told a lie about money that you can't get ahead, that you can't survive without debt. And those lies are keeping you broke. Don't buy into it. Yes, there's a lot of noise and chaos and confusion out there, but there's also hope. The truth is you have more control than you think. This year, it's time to take back your hard earned money and your life. And it starts by joining our free live stream on January 8th. Me and Jade Warshot will show you how to go from chaos to clarity with your money. Help you break free from debt and change your family tree all by using the all new every dollar app. Plus 10 people who sign up will win $2,000 cash. Don't let this be another year of I can't sign up for free at every dollar.com slash live stream. Our scripture today comes from Philippians 3 13 through 14. One thing I do for getting what is behind and straining towards what is ahead. I press toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Jesus Christ. Booker T. Washington said, you measure the size of the accomplishments by the obstacles you have to overcome to reach your goals. That's good. That's really good. Love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. All right. I'm next. We have Jacob in Grand Rapids. Hi, Jacob. Welcome to the show. You're doing. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. Recently, recently in this year, I've had a change in my whole money and it's really been having, you know, $3,000 and a check in account per emergency putting everything else towards the high yield savings account or cash plus account to some banks. And then, you know, maxing out my Roth IRA as much as I can every year as well as, you know, traditional brokerage investments. But it really got me thinking it's like, can you live with these cash plus accounts or high yield savings accounts, considering that they accept direct deposits and bill pay and, you know, you can deposit checks. Can you only live with using a high yield savings account with a credit card? And it's so like, what's the disadvantage of with that without going through, you know, your traditional local bank or even your commercial bank like the bigger ones, right? Yeah. Well, from a high yield perspective, usually you have a limit on how many withdrawals you can have. So you can't use it like a full checking account. Sometimes they have a limit of five. Is what I see most of the time. And, but yeah, you will get a debit card and a checkbook with that. So you can, you can, you know, take money out of it. But you can't, I mean, if you think about, you know, the expense I just think about my every dollar happened when I opened it. It's like 15 transactions. You know, it is like an Amazon, an Amazon grocery netflix. I mean, so you're you're you have a lot of transactions coming out that will not, it'll it'll exceed the limit of a most high yield savings accounts. And see, yeah. So they're really, they're really isn't much as long as, you know, whatever company you go with making sure they don't have those limits and whatnot. Or how you'll go, at least. Well, they do, they will. Yeah. A high yield usually does have have a limit of how many withdrawals you can have per month. Yeah. So a traditional checking out now. I will say, Jacob, there are some and we're actually kind of in talks with one right now. Possibly for the Ramsey show. There are of now banks that are offering a higher percentage rate, maybe like a two to three percent for checking. Normal checking, which is great versus I think our checking's like less than one percent or something. I don't think we basically get anything from it. So there may be some more on the market that are great. It's not it wouldn't be considered a high yield savings. It would be considered a checking account. But there are some banks that are offering usually online banks are offering more of a higher interest rate on just a traditional checking account. So that's something you could look into if you wanted to. No, that is true. I've been seeing that with a lot of banks. Like I'm looking at one or like this Vanguard. That's the one I was looking at. It is labeled a cash plus account. I might not be a high yield. I guess that's where my kind of question or to myself is a bit confusing. But the main motivation behind it is, you know, making my money work for me, right? And making sure that sitting and, you know, yeah, for sure. But I would say the accounts that the money you have in your checking or the way I look at it, Jacob is that money's sitting there not to make me money. It's to keep my life afloat. I mean, that in my investments are there to make money for me. Just like you're saying, my high yield savings, it's there for a little bit of that bridge mentality of like we have a lot, we had a good amount of money in our hard yield because we were building a pool. So we were writing some checks out of it throughout this past year. But I'd rather it sit in a high yield savings versus a checking account. But yet, I know my high yield savings is not where I'm going to make a ton of money. And that's not why it's there. It's fine to have it sit there some savings because it will make more than a checking account. But I look at for me my investments from real it from retirement, Winston, I have a separate mutual fund. And then we also have some real estate. So like I look at those as where my money makes money, not necessarily my high yield savings or my checking. So I wonder if from your mentality perspective, Jacob, to kind of like loosen that a little bit and maybe maybe put some more like emotional parameters around these accounts. I think so. It's also about the habits you're forming. Like when when you tell me that I'm thinking you're building the habit of I have a block of savings and I can pull from that block of savings for normal every day. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. As opposed to when you're checking accounts and you're checking account, I only use this for day to day, you know, day to day purchases. And my savings over here, I only touch it if it's an emergency in this H Y S A. I only you do I'm saying so you're building those habits. And when you blur the lines like that, I think also to Rachel's point, it just it I think it causes confusion. Yeah. Yeah. Personally. But yeah, I wouldn't do it. There are definitely worse things you could do. I'm saying. But I wouldn't do it. Yeah. Does that help? Yeah. That's that's where no, it definitely does help. And you know, that's where I'm going eventually. I have money set aside. I'm in a little background for an investment property and multi family unit. And it's just been sitting in, you know, I think like a point one percent. So I was like, you know, I got to move this. Yes, for sure. And I would say this. Yeah. I know I would say this to Jacob. If that, yeah, I love that real estate goal for you. And if it's going to be longer than five years, you could even drop that in the S&P 500 through Vanguard, if you wanted it. There you go. It's longer than five years. You could invest it. It's going to go up and down. It's not going to be a steady as just a high yield savings, but high yield savings. You're only going to get four to five percent. Now, if it's less than five years, I wouldn't probably risk it putting in the market. But if you know, it's going to be longer than five years, you could drop part of it, you know, maybe not all of it, maybe some of it, maybe all of it. And to just the S&P. Yeah. That is a tourist market because of the compounds in it. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. So again, that's my question. Okay. Perfect. Well, thanks for the call. Jacob, you're a sharp guy, sharp young guy, sharp young man to be able to be thinking about about all of this, which is great. So again, you guys just to kind of like clear that up. You know, you want to have your checking. You want to have some savings. And we love a high yield or a money market account. But in that, you're going to have your emergency funds, some short term savings that you're looking towards when you're debt free and have your fully funded emergency fund. Maybe your down payment, you're saving up four could go on the high yield. Yep. And then beyond that, be investing and retirement is your number one priority with investing 15% of your income will go into that. And that's Roth IRAs. Yep. 401Ks, 403Bs. Now I keep my, I keep my emergency, like Sam and I keep our emergency fund in one high yield. We did it. And then we keep another high yield for like, like, that's how you do. Yep. I just like it over there. Yes. That's how I am. That's how I am. I'm like, don't count that. Like, like, I like to forget it's even I know. And I'm such the free spirits, even though I'm like, talk about money on my job. And I'm always like, hey, babe, out of all their accounts, like, well, how much is in this? And he like, yes, in the number, I'm like, that's not including the emergency fund. Is it? No, it's not. Yeah. And the emergency fund, like, never include the other guys. I just can't even like emotionally go there. But but yeah, those are those are some great questions. And you know, we were the high yield savings, the returns have gone down a little bit. We saw them there. They're crazy. They're like 5.5. Yeah. It was wild, wild, wild, wild. So that's always a thing to remember too. And the economy, when interest rates go up, it's bad when you're in debt because you're having to pay that interest. But when you're earning the interest, yeah, it might be, might be great. All right, let's go to TikTok real quick. We'll close out the show with a little TikTok. We got Brian and he said, because of your show, we're live in the dream. We're tired early and traveling the country in our RV and we can't stop saving and eating cheaply. How can we eat steaks, rips, seafood without guilt? So that's that without a grill. I was like, wait, wait, wait, basically, how do you enjoy life on baby on baby step? I think they're on seven. I think they're, they're done. They're live in the dream. So I'll give you my framework for like, so basically they're feeling guilty about their spending. Is that what they're saying? Yeah. Okay. But they have the money. So I love this because Sam and I sometimes feel the same way. Like whenever you've gone through a struggle and you've sacrificed to win, you do, it's like, oh, like you're afraid you're going to mess it all up. Right. And so here's what five pillars of personal finance. Got it. Here we go. And if you check the boxes, then you're a financially responsible adult. Love it. So number one, are you living on a budget? Okay. Green check. Ding. Number two, are you person who is living out of debt? Like you're out of debt? You don't have a debt. Ding, check that box. If you're, I carry the proper insurances. Do I have the proper insurances? Yes, check that box. Am I a person who's saving for the future? Am I doing, you know, my 15% to retirement? Am I doing the 529? Am I investing in my, you know, four savings account through my home? Ding. And am I prioritizing giving? If you're green checking all those boxes permission to spend to enjoy some life. I love it. I love it. Hope that helps Brian. Enjoy the RV life. That retired life. Love it. Oh, thanks to all the guys in the booth for helping out, Jade. Thanks for the great hour. And remember to take control of your money and create a life you love.