"Better Divorced With A Kid Than No Kid." | Nada Baeshen

Fame never interested me. Being on TV never interested me. When I got married, my pictures went viral. An agent called me and he's like, listen, why don't you try it out? I was like, of course not. Like I'm not a model. During that period, I get a call. Why don't you become a TV presenter on NBC? I was like, of course not. Nada. I wish I was a Saudi woman being one of the biggest TV presenters in the country. How your career changed and evolved. All I do every day on my show is to preach that you need to be financially independent as a woman. You cannot leave a bad husband if you have no money. If you don't see the traditional namaz, even if you stop and pray for five minutes within yourself, but to connect to something higher than yourself. Exactly. I want to leave our audience with a tip that you have for women listening about how to take the power back in their lives. Neda Basheen, welcome to Biohacket. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for flying down from Jeddah to be on the show and go for dinner with me tonight. I'm excited actually about the podcast and the dinner time. We have a lot to catch up on. So I came across your profile through our common friend Mimi, Ghandur. I think it was like a year and a half ago, two years ago. And I mean dying to interview you because I'm just fascinated with Saudi women and how the country's evolution has changed and how Saudi women have becoming out onto the forefront of everything going on. So I want to ask you a little bit more about how the cultural shift happened in Saudi and you as a Saudi woman being one of the biggest TV presenters in the country, how your career changed and evolved? OK, first of all, I'm so glad that Mimi is our common friend who's actually a classmate since I was in school. So Mimi is someone that's not just a friend. She's like home. Family. She's family. The transition from before to now has really like, I don't think Saudi women are on the map today. I think just the map is on Saudi today. That's why there's a microscope now looking at women there. But I think we've always been strong. We've always been working. We've always been doing so many things. I just think the careers have changed. Like for before, we had only certain, how can you say, fields we used to work in, like education, medical, certain fields. Like now with our new count pens, women are working in every field. There's so much opportunities. Personally, when I started, when I was growing up, I never thought I would go to the States, for example. I studied in Saudi. I went to a Saudi school. I think when I thought of college, I thought I was going to study in Saudi or Europe. The first time I went to the States was when I was actually 17 years old to actually go to college. Like any Saudi father, my father wanted me to be the typical banker, lawyer, or doctor. And to him or engineer, there were like four sectors that were like, you know, the safe ones that they would want their daughters to actually, you know, pursue. To be honest, at the time, I didn't even know what I wanted. And I, and he was like, I think if you want to do something different, you should study speech pathology. And I was like, what's speech pathology? And at the time that was very in, and like, you know, especially Ed was very, like the government was really pushing women to study that field. I got there and I got to Boston. And I started studying there. And my dad only sent me to Boston because 10 of my friends were going to an all girls college. He's like, she's going to have a tribe with her. She's a captain. Yeah, I have a tribe and it was an all girls college and it was a little bit different to be comfortable. And that's how it started. And I went to Boston and we were all Saudi girls from the same school and we all went to different colleges there. And this was a start. Like it was not like very common for women to go and study abroad. It was kind of new. So I think this was early 2000, like 2000. It was actually 2000. So this is a shift. These young girls going to study abroad to the U.S. for my, my flight to Boston was the first time ever to go to the States. And obviously, while I was there, I realized speech pathology is not really my personality. Clearly when you sit with me, you do know that is not the field I will pursue. I have a double minor in it though, because I didn't know what to do for two years. And then I studied marketing and PR and then I did my masters and management all in Boston. Leaving and packing my five and a half, six years there was so hard. Packing every box was just, you know. Painful. Painful. You know, I met a lot of friends and when you talk about the transition of me moving from Saudi to the U.S. like what was so beautiful about it was meeting people from all over the world. Like I went to summer schools and I met people like for three, four weeks in the summer and we'd meet and we kept in touch and a lot of them actually went to college in Boston. But the friendships you make in college are very different than the friendships you make in school. Because first of all, they last, you experience a lot more with the friends and growth with the friends you meet and college that there's like this more mature friendship. And I really, till today, I actually have friends from all over the world from college that I'm in touch with, that are kids or friends and this is such a beautiful, this is such a beautiful time in my life. When I look back at Boston days, like from 2000, 2006, it was the best time. I think that there was no problems at the time. You only thought about like where to have lunch and when are you going to submit your essay? And if you're going to pass this class or not, these small things were such the beautiful memories. And then I moved back to Saudi and where do you think I worked? You tell me. I mean, you got a corporate job. Obviously I got a corporate job. I worked in banking for 10 years. 10 years. That's what I was researching. I was like, so she went from being a banker, being in finance to being like, I'm going to go on TV now. I know, it's so weird because like I never thought I would want to fulfill my father's dream. I think he really liked the banking and finance field. And I started off in HSBC in corporate banking. And then they told me, I don't feel like you're, like the bank told me really think you could be in private banking and investments. So then I moved to the Saudi French bank and then I went to the family office, which is a wealth advisory firm in Bahrain. Obviously while I did all this, I opened a boutique and I called it Newbury because I love Newbury Street and Boston and that was where like I would shop and it was such a nice memory. So my partner and I opened it during my banking time. And so I was, I was always buying. So I'd fly to New York on the weekend and go back to work on Monday on Sunday. At the time actually it was a Thursday, Friday was weekend. So I'd go for the weekend, do the buying, come back and have a full day job. And I managed both. And after 10 years in banking, I really felt that I like gave it my all and there was no interest anymore in the field and I wasn't gonna give more. So I decided to continue in retail. And I said as an owner of one boutique, I don't think that's really enough knowledge. So I went and worked for a company called Binda Wood and they were like, they had the biggest department store and jett at the time. And I did all the buying for them, kids, women's men's and home and I went to China and it was on a much bigger scale. And that's when I also opened my boutique which I called the Huntress. And that stayed, that lasted for like the whole field of retail for me stayed for like, I've had stores for like 25 years. And I think that was when I closed the doors because you know boutiques have a shelf life. It's like, you could not really have a boutique that lasts longer than 25 years with all the changes in the market as well and online. It was very hard to compete in the end. So I decided it was a time to close at a high then close with losses. But in general, I've been someone that jumps from like we can say one field to another and I've always opened to it. And seamlessly as well. Shockingly, I never really thought I would jump into a first of all retail. And then media for me was very something that was out of the question to me that was not something I ever, that's ever interested me. Fame never interested me. Being on TV never interested me. I just drink, when I got married, my pictures went viral and I had a boutique at the time. So I was like, oh my God, so okay, you know what? So let me move this following to my boutique to sell more, to increase sales. This is what I, at the end of the day, why would you want to be on social media? If you don't have a product to sell. This is how I- Yeah, because it's not a vanity. Exactly, and a lot of people like it to just show off and to just have this perfect image. But to me, it was just more about sales. I come from a trading family. So to me, I just wanted to make people know more about my business and what I do. And then after that, I started getting calls about doing ads. So I didn't understand the concept of why would anyone call me to do an ad? To me, it was just so foreign. And then an agent called me and he's like, listen, why don't you try it out? I was like, of course not. Like I'm not a model. Why would I take pictures of myself? I was so stupid. I was like, I come from a serious job. Like I'm a corporate person. I'm an entrepreneur. This is so shallow. This is a shallow field. And I'm sure it still is to many. I think from the cultures that we come from, we view it as very shallow. Yeah, exactly. Like both of us, like we look at a page and we see this girl, like she's posing in clothes. It's like, what are we doing? For me, I still struggle with being, I see myself as a founder and an entrepreneur, not as a content creator. And it's like, you see other people online, it's so easy for them to just batch out content. And I'm just like, I really don't have time for this at times. I exhaust me. And I was like, I'm here to do business. And this can grow my page for work, but beyond that, I'm not here to batch out content for no reason. Exactly. For me, this is a business. You either make it a business and you make it an income generating business. But the sad thing about also social media that people cannot perceive the real you. So in the beginning, when I started, I said, I'm going to give it one year. And in this year, if I don't make enough, let's say this amount, I will not continue. And then COVID happened. And what did I do during COVID? I did what you're doing now. I love the medical field. I think I should have been a dermatologist in another life. In a life. Your next career evolution. And I will not study anymore. I'm done. I'm done. So I was like, I really have this fascination and interest in plastic surgeon. And as women, we all want to look beautiful. We all want to know more about beauty and longevity. And this is what you do a lot. So I said, I'm going to email these very famous doctors in California and New York. And I'm going to do lives with them on my Instagram page. And I did 100 lives. I swear, for free, just because I was bored during COVID. Do you know that's how I started the podcast. I would do Biohack It. Used to be at one stage, I was just doing Instagram lives during the pandemic. I was like, wait, I want to meet people in person and have these conversations. Exactly. And it's so nice how this evolved. And then after the lives, I started getting a lot of requests. I'm like just doing ads. And then at the time I was having my kids, like I had my first son, my second son. To be honest, I was struggling with my weight. So I didn't feel like I fit the fashion business at the time. 20 kilos above my weight between each pregnancy, two kids between three and a half years for. So I was getting a lot of mommy and me, which is not my, I can say persona, I think, on Instagram. So I just started doing what I'm doing focused on my business. I had my store. I opened the paddle court. And the same time I have a home service bar. So all this was growing. So you were always very entrepreneurial? Always. And I don't know why I always like to do work on startups, although everyone tells me I should start investing more in stocks, but it's not my thing. And I just like really seeing something small being built from scratch. And I like building. Like private equity, if I come to invest. This is the kind of investments I like. So basically, then I started getting a lot of business in terms of the fashion business and beauty business as I started evolving in the field and started creating, how can you say, content creator, clean page with a good aesthetic. I started understanding the business more, what the brands are looking for, who am I, what I'm going to do, what am I targeting. During that period, I get a call again to try another field. Why don't you become a TV presenter on NBC? I was like, of course not. My how long ago was this? This is three and a half years ago. Just when Saudi had started opening up. No, but even even after like, Saudi has really opened up quite for like more than like, I think now eight years. Like I used to work. When I started working in banking, I was one of the few women that worked in corporate. It was more of a male field. So I was one of the few. And actually we were only three women in the whole corporate floor. So from my time to now, I think there's a huge transition. And I'm really thankful to see that I, you know what's also so nice as a Saudi woman is because I come from like, you know, I went to college 2000. And now we're 2025. So to see the transition in exactly 25 years, it's huge. And living the transition from like, from someone from my generation, you see the gap and you see how amazing it is to see such a country grow so much and do so much for women and for what's happening. And like the whole world is looking at Saudi now. And I'm so glad you came and visited us recently. I thought it was absolutely incredible. What did you think? You tell me. I thought Saudi is like evolving and shaping and changing so fast. And the fact that, and I would say this, I was like, you look at people, a country like Saudi Arabia, the kingdom, you look at the UAE, not every country needs democracy because you look at the success these countries are having and how they're scaling their people, they're getting on a world map, they're evolving, they're shifting, they're changing. And at the same time, really you talk to the citizens of the country and they're so proud. We are. Saudis are so nationalistic. They're so proud to be Saudi. And I think that's embedded in your culture. It really is Anand. I am so proud to be Saudi, especially now. Like, you know, when I travel and I feel like you have to be like an ambassador for your country and talk about it because it's so impressive where I've been. Everybody looks at Saudi as a very old country, but Saudi is a very young country. So when you come and compare it to like the US or like for example, places like Europe, you can't really compare. So where we are today is something really amazing. People don't realize how short notice this has happened. As someone who's always drawn to wellness products that are simple, effective, and actually help you understand your body, which is why I'm so excited to share the Harman Zoomer by Vibrant Wellness, a company I love and trust. It's an advanced at-home test that gives you real insight into your energy, mood, and overall balance. That's why I trust Vibrant. It combines standard of care labs with genetics and innovative biomarkers backed by over 400 researchers and more than 40 peer-reviewed studies. I took the Harman Zoomer myself and finally getting clear answers behind signs and symptoms. I'd always blamed on stress or too much travel, which was extremely empowering to me. It measures up to three times the markers of typical hormone panels, including hormones, adrenal, and bone health, oxidative stress, and endocrine disruptors and toxins like glyphosate and phalates, essentially five tests in one. And with Vibrant's network of over 30,000 trained providers, you get expert interpretation and a plan that makes sense for your body and your needs. If you're ready to understand what your body's been trying to tell you, ask your provider for the Harman Zoomer or find a Vibrant certified provider at vibrant-wellness.com slash biohack it, because understanding your body changes everything. All of when I was in Riyadh, there's so many developments happening simultaneously with each other, and I think in five years, the whole infrastructure's gonna completely change, which I was so shocked by how quickly they're scaling up. And what's amazing about Saudi is when you're in Saudi, you're sitting among Saudis, you're eating among Saudis, you get into the Uber driver, he is a Saudi. You go to McDonald's and you order, the guy behind the counter is Saudi. So this is not a country that's just, we're 33 million if I'm not wrong today, and what's amazing to see is that we are in every field, we're in every sector, you really meet the people in the country, you're not meeting foreigners in our country, and we are people that are so hospitable, and we love foreigners to visit, and we love people coming in. And in Arabic, they say, we are hospitable, that's what I'm trying to say. So let me go back to the TV story of my life. So this agent called Hadi Hajjar, who's quite famous here, has a company called Humanagement. And he's like, Neda, why don't you try TV? I was like, honestly, my Arabic is not the strongest. I studied in Boston, I haven't tried, I haven't, like I'm not on the level of a TV presenter. I'm quite liberal, I don't know if I can say, if I can talk, like be censored, because you know, this is a live show. And he's like, Neda, this is what they want, they want someone that speaks their mind, they want someone more modern, and I was like, are you sure? And he's like, why don't you just try it out? And I just sent him, my name is Neda Ba'ashan, and I'm from Jeddah, and this is me, and good morning, or something so, just like a basic. And then they will come for a casting, I was like, what's a casting? And he was like, a casting is when you come with other people, and they try you out. Of course, I read the lines on the screen all wrong. I said they would obviously not call me back. They called me back like an hour later, and they basically five days or one week later, told me please, we want you on the show, and it was amazing, and I was like, you know what? What's the worst that can happen? In life, it's nice to try new things. And it's a celebrity, basically it's like, the show I'm on is called Kalaab Nawaym, and it's like the view of the Middle East. So we have four women sitting on a table, and we have a celebrity every week, and a success story. It's all in Arabic, and we get people from all over the Middle East, like from every Arab country, of course, has to be speaking Arabic, speaking, you know, guess, and what's been so nice is that you meet so many people from all across the world, and this door has opened a lot of interviewing opportunities for me. So I presented the Joy Award several times, I presented the Red Sea Film Festival, which is all new to me, and I really am someone that believes that it's nice to give it a try. Why not? Why not? What's the worst that can happen? Right. Do you, out of everybody you've met or interviewed on your show, who has impacted you the most? In a personal level, plus a professional. Okay, to be honest, I'm not someone that really can tell you there's one person that impacted me. I'm gonna be honest with you because I feel that there are certain things about each person that impact you in a different way. A story, for example, someone can tell you a story that could really impact you, and then someone can tell you another experience. So from all the guests that we've got on the show, each one had the story, like for example, I remember one story from one actress, and she said that basically she spent all her 30s trying to basically find the right man, and when she found the right man, she couldn't have kids. And she, he wasn't really pushing for her to have kids, although he didn't have any, and she thought he didn't wanna have kids because he wasn't really into her, and he didn't wanna have a child from her. And then he told her, I don't wanna have a kid because look at this world, and that this world is so harsh and hard that I don't feel like I really want to have a child in this world. I would rather be a father to many. And this is a story that really, this is a very famous actor, the actress in the Middle East, Egypt. Where was she from? And it was really nice to hear such a story. Then you hear other stories about women struggling in the field and cinema, and how they really worked so hard to basically get to where they are, and you think you're actually working hard, and you see that's even harder. Harder. So many stories that impact me in different ways, and you take these hardships and things you learn, and you basically learn from them. What has been probably one of the hardest things in your career that you came across, especially in this evolution? And career or personal life? Both. Okay, career-wise, the hardest thing is a mom, I think, of two, and two young boys, like my son is seven, and the other one is just turned four, actually, before yesterday. So during this whole period of growth for me, I was trying to manage being a mom and a wife, and managing three businesses and flying in and out. Constantly. When I started this TV show, it was flying weekly to Dubai, and I'm based in Jeddah. So the past seven, I've been married for nine years, and nine years, I've moved, let's say, you can say I've moved two times, I've had two kids during COVID, and at the same time, my husband moved to another city. So my husband lives in Riyadh, I live in Jeddah, we both commute on the weekend, I'm commuting for work, two kids below the age of seven. It's not easy. How did you meet your husband? I met him here in Dubai. Actually, he's Saudi. No, he's from Kuwait, actually. So now you have the international. So basically, this is the hard part, like the mom side, managing being a mom and not feeling guilty sometimes, because I think we all have guilt. But at the same time, I don't wanna be this mom that just, I'm just a mom, because I feel like as a mom of two boys, it's nice to let your boys see a mom that's working, that's achieved, they learn from that. Yeah, of course. This is one, my dad was very unwell. The past four years, my dad has been unwell, and that has given me such a heavy heart, like seeing someone that used to be your best friend, can't speak anymore, and he can't be who he is. So for me, my best friend and my confidant is just basically not there anymore. Like he's there, he's present, but he's just not there. So that for me was, I think, my biggest pain, I think. Aside from just being away from my kids sometimes, my father, technically, I lost my dad, but he's still there. So that is actually, I think, the hardest thing. Part of it. I think it's the hardest thing, any girl, I'm the eldest daughter, so I'm sure, I don't know if you relate, or a father figure is totally different. Like it's something else for a woman. I lost my father four years ago, we had a difficult relationship towards the end, but I will say that having that bond in connection with that first male figure in your life is so important, it really shapes you to become who you are, and teaches you a lot of really strong value systems. Your father is your backbone, he's your strength, not in every case, obviously, but in my case, he was like my best friend, my backbone, and I always say, no matter what, your husband is a husband, but your father is the father. Is your father, actually? So this was very hard for me, this is the hardships, the kids, and how you wanna go back to where I met my husband. No, I wanna ask you, it has, what happened to your father, because you and I connected over wellness as well, is that what kind of sparked your interest in wellness and health? To be honest, actually, I didn't link it, but now that you're talking about it, this is actually the time I started focusing more on my health, because my dad got diagnosed with, it's called CBS, it's like Dementia, it's like one of the Dementia and Alzheimer diseases, as you can say. So it's the time I actually started focusing on eating better, sleeping better. I started reading a lot more about what I should take and what I shouldn't take, what I started doing, things so differently. I sleep early, I wake up, I start doing weightlifting, which I never did before, I just thought I should always work out, and cardio, cardio, I started taking NMN and NAD, and I started taking Reservatol, and I started looking into sleep. It's actually, people talk about biohacking so much, but mainly biohacking is what? It's discipline, it's actually discipline. It's waking up early, sleeping early, avoiding your phone at night, it's taking the right medications and pills, it's a way of trying to be more calm and meditating, which I never did before. Actually, the meditating part started very recently, I didn't even start three years ago. I was always a person that's always on the go and on the run, so it's also spirituality. It's a combination of many things, so that's when I started, but I don't think I realize it until you asked me now. Yeah, something always sparks it. The one thing I will say when I was in Saudi, I noticed is, A, the country consumes a lot of sugar. A lot. And if you look at things like Alzheimer's or Parkinson's and dementia, a lot of these things are sparked from bad microbiome health and sugar degrades that and speeds that up. Second thing I noticed is a lot of Saudis, they sleep super late and they wake up then, therefore late. So their circadian rhythm is blown off. When your circadian rhythm is off, you don't have good mitochondrial health. And in Saudi Arabia, people, in this part of the world generally, people are 80% more susceptible to diabetes. It's a really big problem here because everything has sugar in it. Everything, and even if we're not eating sugar, you're eating carbs, a lot of carbs. And that turns into sugar. And no protein, not enough protein. Antique protein, protein is the mentality of working out is so different. Women always have this theory that if I weight lift, I'm gonna be bulky. And they don't look at the side effects that what happens to you if you don't actually weight lift, you get the osteoporosis. And to me, I actually think I look way better in my 40s now. Then in my 20s and my 30s, I'm healthier. I'm better quality of sleep. And to me now, when I say I need to sleep early, it's not just because I just wanna wake up early tomorrow morning, it's one day a week. No, it's actually a lifestyle. And so going back to, I think everybody would wanna know, how did you meet your husband? Yeah, okay, so I met him in Dubai. It was actually the day of my birthday, which was weird. And I planned to move to Dubai at the time. I actually rented an apartment here. I wanted to move my retail business here. And I opened a company. And the day I rented the apartment with my neighbor, who was a good friend, who was with me also in college, was living above. And so I went over, because they were cleaning my apartment. And I went for lunch. And then we were chilling and he's like, Neda, this really handsome guy is coming. I was like, oh, come on, whatever. All your friends are terrible and a disaster. I'm not gonna waste my time. I'm here, let's just chill. And then he comes in and we just start talking. And you know, I was in a phase in my life where I just really wanted to focus on work. And I wasn't really concentrating on that I wanted to meet anyone. Like I just really wanted to like, I wanted to be in Dubai to live my life. And that's it. And if I didn't even think if anything comes along, I don't know why I was in a very concentrated phase, let's say. Focused. Focused on my career at the time. And then the next day he called me. He's like, do you want to have lunch? And I really had nothing to do. I was like, why not? And I went to lunch and he started calling me. And then he came the weekend after to Dubai and the weekend after and after. And then he defined it. And he wanted to define your relationship. To me, this is like music to my ears. I was like, a man calling me all the time. Is there anything wrong with him? I think when you see someone that is very nice and open, you find it very hard to believe, right? It's not something you see every day. You come across every day. Yeah, yeah. And it just worked out and it flowed. And then he met my mom and then he met my dad. And then my dad was not very happy that he was from Kuwait because he didn't want me to move to Kuwait. He felt that that was so far. Oh, it was like an hour and a half away. And then he met him and he really liked him. And this is how it was. I got married in Dubai because that's where we met and it was a good middle for our friends and his friends. And it turned out that like 80%, like not 80%, but like we had so many common friends that we realized we had that we never knew, but we never knew each other. So when on our wedding day, like our whole wedding list was almost common. We were true friends, which was beautiful because he studied in Miami actually. And I studied, sorry, Florida. And I studied in Boston, although we never knew each other. He came to Boston, I never met him. And you guys are the same age. No, he's 81 and I'm 83. So we're like a year and a half apart. So it's nothing. So I think this is how the story began. I wanna ask you, being a Southie woman, married to a Middle Eastern guy, and knowing that a lot of my audience is obviously North American and they listen to the podcast, how has it been for you building the career and how's the support being at home with your husband? Luckily, I've always had a very supportive father in terms of business and career and a very supportive husband. I don't think everybody gets lucky with that. But I think not just in the Middle East, I think worldwide. Absolutely. I think it has nothing to do with the country. I think it has to do with the man you're with. Some men love a working woman and they love a woman that's independent. Some men find this very intimidating. I think most men find women that are very achieved or very on the go or excited to have a business intimidating and very few men actually accept it. But my husband is from Kuwait and Kuwaiti women are known to be very entrepreneurial and very strong. And his mother is a strong woman. She has a master's degree from back in God knows when and she was teaching in the university. His dad is the first architect in Kuwait as well. And I think also me coming from a father that also was very pro-education, like my aunts were all working women. My mom wasn't a working woman, but all my aunts were working women. So my dad didn't really have this belief. Like when I went to college and he came back, he's like, so where are you gonna go work? And he cut my credit card and he's like, now you came back, now it's time for you to find a job. But to me, all my other friends didn't really have that pressure or urgency. My dad is like, I didn't send you abroad to just like do nothing. Were you the first in your family to go abroad for college? No, a woman. My aunt went to the American University of Beirut. My dad was in the American University of Beirut. Then he went to the University of Petroleum and middleers after the war in Lebanon at the time. But no, my aunts went to college in Lebanon at the time back in the day. But college abroad, as in like you're talking about, not Middle East, like the States, yes. I was the first one to go to the States from my father's side. I was the first grand kid as well, so yeah. I was gonna ask you, which beliefs from your upbringing have stood the test of time in which have you had to reimagine? Beliefs? Beliefs, values, programming that you were given growing up. Isha, my father is someone that is extremely, extremely, he really believes in having a goal in life. And my mother is the woman that really wanted me to be married and have kids. And she wanted me to have all the degrees. But she wanted you to be married. And do all the hobbies. Like, you know, she wanted me to play tennis and she wanted me to have a master's degree and even if a PhD she wouldn't mind. But at the same time, she wanted me to be married because this is her priority in life. My father didn't have that belief system, although he was Saudi and he's like a very conservative man in many ways, but he was a very true liberal at heart. Like he believed a woman should always have her own money and she should be independent and that she should actually make sure that she can take care of herself. And this is something I don't know why. He instilled in you. I come from a comfortable background. So to me, I don't understand why he really pushed so hard on that level. I think maybe he wanted you to know that even if he's not there, and God forbid the time that he's not there because life is a circle of life, you will still be able to stand on your own two feet and not rely on somebody else. And you know, honestly, there's some things that have happened in my life which I can't share so much, but like to be fair, when you know what I'm saying, something really difficult happened in my life and I actually had to rely on myself for like a period of time. And I wouldn't have been capable of where I am today if I didn't have the education he gave me. He was a bit harsh on the backbone. So the values I learned was to basically be independent. He preached that so much. You had to make your own money, you need this and you need that, like it was a bit much, I think. But today, all I do every day on my show is to preach that you need to be financially independent as a woman because realistically, you cannot leave a bad husband if you have no money. You cannot build on your own if you have no money. And how do you make money? And education, you have a career. And a lot of women, sadly, and I think this is all over the world, not again in Saudi Arabia or Middle East, they get married to a well-off man or a rich man. They get very comfortable. He finds a younger woman. Or he cheats. Or he cheats. Or not even that, you just go out of love, you're unhappy. And you just stay in the marriage because you have no roof over your head and you cannot do anything. And this is our mother's generation, a lot of women stayed. Why does this generation have to do the same if you're independent? You don't need to stay with a man that doesn't treat you well or you're unhappy. You can actually just leave. And women that can leave are more threatening for men. They scare them, so they respect themselves more. Yeah, I think as a woman in today's day and age, no matter what culture you come from, you need to always be able to stand on your own to some capacity because a man needs to know that this person's not gonna accept my hand. And she can be an amazing wife, she can be an amazing mother, but if I cross a line, she has the strength to walk away, even if she decides to slow down her career, or even have this amazing career and then decide, okay, I'm gonna be a housewife for a little bit and raise these children. But at the same time, you have the strength to be like, I can pick the pieces back up and leave if you disrespect me. I sort of agree with you. And so in terms of values, this is what I really believe in, like making your own money, being independent. The things that I actually feel like I wasn't really doing in the early, not early, and like say in my 20s and my 30s, I wasn't very spiritual, I think I feel. And this is something that I'm... But that's a lot of us because I think religion has thrown down on us so much while growing up. Like my mom was super religious, not conservative, but very religious. My mom wasn't, right? She was decent, that's normal. My mom did the Hajj. Like, it's like, she was like super religious and I finished the Quran three times, but she was very liberal at the same time. So I grew up in a... She was a nice middle. Yeah, she was a nice middle, but they were so conservative in some ways. And I grew up in a household that women should be independent and really push for education, but really also pushed religion down my throat. And so say that in Mazud, I'm like, I don't wanna do it, you know? Leave me alone. You don't wanna do it, it's pushed so much, you don't want to. And I think all of us, at a certain point in our lives, were really like pushed, because you have to do this, you have to... But it's really weird when I'm telling you of spirituality, this is something I got into like the past three months, so new, so new, like you know what I mean? And I just feel sometimes when you go through like hardships in life and stuff, sometimes you don't know how to deal. And I'm not someone that always likes to go to... I'm not a person that does therapy and stuff like that. I know a lot of people believe in it, but I would rather vent to a friend. And that's my therapy. That's your therapy. That's your therapy. And sometimes I feel like therapy takes a different level, it doesn't always go the right way in my opinion. But what I like is like sometimes having this time with myself, like, I don't know if you call it meditating, whatever you do, and like giving yourself that time with yourself, it could be reading the Quran, reading the Bible, reading whatever, but to me, this just gives me that sense of serenity and peace, and whatever does that for you, go ahead, you know what I mean? I think we all need to connect to something beyond us and connect with the divine. Whether you call it Allah, you call it God, you call it Moses, whatever it may be to you, but you have to believe in something much greater than yourself. And you have to believe that there's a higher power out there who's taking care of you, who's looking out for you. And even if you just, if you don't see the traditional namaz, even if you stop and pray for five minutes within yourself, but to connect to something higher than yourself. Exactly, and this is so important, I think. It gives you a balance in life. Sometimes you're always on the go, on the go, like look at you traveling, coming here and there. Sometimes you just need to take a deep breath, and just relax, and I take this calm shot sometimes. Which one is it? Happy aging. Shurta, Zashor, yandans, and so on. And I take it before the show every time, and sometimes I have, and now I have a ritual before the show, what I do. What is the ritual? Like I pray, I started praying, and I read the Quran every day now, and it's something I never did before. Like I did it only during Ramadan, I did it certain times in like a year. But this is something new, and I don't know how it started, or what has driven me to start it, but it actually has given me so much peace. That's the word peace, so give me peace. Things in life will find you when you're ready to receive them. Exactly. People will find you, opportunities will find you, religion will find you when you're ready to receive it. So when our frequency changes, because we are built on energy and frequency, and we align with different things, those things come into our life. That is why it's so important. I'm getting into a place in my life, it's so important to start slowing down a little bit and making room for new relationships or friendships or the ability to create and find new things. That's amazing, and you are right. Like sometimes, like I made a decision this year early this year. It's so funny, I think we're the same age, so this year we're in the same, I think we're in the same phase. So I said this year I'm gonna work smart, not hard, and I'm gonna cancel a lot of work trips that to me I've done before, that could be unnecessary, and spend more time with my friends, more time with my kids, and this is my priority this year. And this has actually, what I've done, this is only, I've been doing this the past four months, and I swear to you, my work has been better. The amounts and budgets I'm getting are better, and I'm working less. You need to say no to more things in life to create room for yeses. On another note, you said who impacted me, and we just had a celebrity that was so sweet on the show a few days ago, and her name is Sara Abikanan, and she's so sweet, and she was saying that she is a people pleaser, and she doesn't know how to say no. And to her saying no is like, she's being rude. So she just started recently also trying to get out of this phase of learning how to say no. And to her this is very hard, and who has helped her is her husband. And it's such a nice story that I heard this week, in addition to the fact that she's a stepmom to a girl, and that she was talking about how being a stepmom is not very easy, but at the same time, how she really has loved this child because of her love for the person. So this was a nice story to hear. You can watch it. Somebody asked me, do you want to have kids? I said, I love children, but I don't want to have kids for the sake of having kids. I have to love my partner so much that I want to have a child with him. I like your answer because sadly, in our part of the world as well, it's pushed on you. It's pushed on you, no, no, no. It's not just it's pushed on you. What's pushed on you is the concept of marriage. Everybody has to be married by this age. Or you're old. Or you're unhappy. Some women- Something is wrong with you. Why are you not married right now? Something is wrong. It's either what's wrong with you. I remember back in the day in Arabic, a person told me, I got married at 32, so that was not young for South. So he's like, it's like push harder, work harder. Did you get married? Yeah, and it was a father, he asked, he told me that. And in my head, I was like, work harder? What a comment. But honestly, what I don't like is how the perception they always expect a woman to be married with kids, and this is happiness. But not every, and I'm not gonna say this is for, that marriage is for not for everyone. Absolutely. Children are not for everyone. There are women that really don't care to have children. And they shouldn't have them. But there are people, like for example, like a friend of mine, she's like, no, I don't believe a woman can be happy if she doesn't have kids. And I disagree. I say, not everyone is born to say. To be a mother. Not everyone is born, we're all different. I love my boys, but to be honest, before having my kids, I didn't stand kids. I really couldn't stand kids before my children. I love my boys, but I'm still not that mother that is like into every child I see. I'm not gonna lie. I love my kids. I like to give them my time. But I'm not that extra maternal. I don't have that extra maternal instinct. I still hate going to parks with my kids. And I don't enjoy kids' activities, but I push myself for my children. So not every mother is born to enjoy all these things. So I enjoy taking my kids to Chirpiani and having taken them to a nice lunch. Would I like to? I treat them like little adults. I treat them like little adults. And I don't think, I think it's okay not to be married. It's okay not to have kids. And it's okay to be divorced. It's okay to be married more than once. And it's okay to love again and again and again. It's a cycle of life. You have to have the ability in yourself to do what feels right to you. Exactly. And we live in a part of the, our part of the world is so quick to judge and be so judgy. And... But by the way, not just our part of the world. It's worldwide, trust me. Yeah, I think it is worldwide. Even in South America, if you go to certain countries, if you go to like many other countries, you will see that they have an expectation. I think it's only like Scandinavian countries that are like very chill about marriage and children. But like really they all have an expectation of marriage. Like at least, okay, maybe not early 20s, but at least in the 30s. After 30s, like when are you gonna get married? Egg freezing, it all becomes a topic. It all becomes like... It's a fear mongering. This is what I believe. You have to do things that the alignment that is ready for you and not force yourself into situations. And if you are in a situation that does not align with you any further, have the courage to walk away. And you know what I don't like as well? Sadly, a lot of women jump into marriages that are so like... Toxic for them. From the toxic and some of them, from the beginning they know this guy is not good. Oh yeah, of course. She just gets into it because... The pressure. The pressure and because she says, I wanna have kids. I never forget once actually, I was sitting with a girl and she was so unhappy in her marriage. And this is back in the day. And you know what she told me? She's like, I just wanna have one kid. And I was like, why? She's like, better be divorced with a kid than no kid. And I was like... And she was Saudi. Yeah, and this was a long time ago. And I was like, why? She's like, because you know, I don't know if I'll ever remarry. And I told her, it's actually not true because divorced women have a better chance lately because they usually know what they want. They're more attractive. And I never forget that she was a very young girl and I don't know what happened to her. Honestly, I met her at work and it was a very wrong answer. I really hope she didn't have a kid because honestly, if the marriage wasn't working out from the first year and a half or year, you don't, you actually wait. So sadly, you see a lot of women like that or a lot of women as well because they have no financial independence. So she's like, if I have a kid, he'll support me and the kid, which is also not a smart- The reason to have a child. Exactly. For our audience listening, what is one impression or reality that you want North America to know about Saudi women today? Saudi women are, I think, very strong personalities. They are actually women that are working women. They're mothers. They're in every field. They're empowered. The sad thing is when they look at Saudi, they always look at us like behind a veil. They look at us as if you can see the veil. They actually look at Saudi as that. But Saudi is full of culture, full of, like I don't know, there's not, I don't even know what to say because I look at me today. And I'm like one of many. I'm achieved. I study. I worked. I built a career for myself. Imagine me with so many more stories. Like imagine one of me and like, there are so many stories like me. And I just sometimes really wish that people remove the perception of women in the Middle East as not just Saudi, like everywhere, that we're like just so close. We're not liberal. I really think even when we don't, even not Saudi, like Kuwait, I'm gonna give you a story. Kuwaiti men were, because we know my husband's from Kuwait, were pearl divers. And that's how they basically made the money. So the men used to go to sea for six months and they would basically go to dive to collect pearls. And who would run the household? The women. The women. So this is, we're not talking on back in the day. So imagine a woman running the house, running the farm, running the kids, running everything. And her husband comes back and goes back to sea for half a year. So it's the same thing with Saudi women. But it's just not, the perception is, we don't look at it this way. Yes, maybe women did not work back in the day, but they had a different role. They were raising the kids, they were home. This is another story, but I'm just saying that right now, it has changed so much. It's so impressive. And now the workforce in Saudi, like women are such good multitaskers. I was actually in a meeting here in Dubai and I was like, oh wow, what an amazing team. I was 60 women in an agency. And they were like, we realized that women can multitask better than men. Oh, absolutely, that's our superpower. That's why they're hiring more females than males. So I was so impressed. And this is just an example of how women are, it's not just women in Saudi, women everywhere. We're just pretty strong. I think, you know, when there's a statement to be like, oh, you should grow a pair of balls. It's actually like, you should have ovaries. Because believe me, we are much more resilient. Emotionally resilient. Yes, as we age, of course, our hormones shift and we are less resilient to certain types of stress. However, we're more resilient to different emotions. We have the ability to hold more. We have the ability to give more. We have so many different roles that we can play at the same time. You know something, on my show last week, I was talking about how women have, we are so strong to an extent that we have become so practical. So practical to an extent that like I was saying, and the story I was saying, I was like, women now sometimes when they're having, they have a heavy heart or they're having a very bad day, she's probably cooking while she's crying, but she doesn't wanna show her kids she's sad because she wants the household to look stable. She has a fight with a fight with her husband, yet she goes back, sees her kids, and as if nothing happened. She has a horrible day at work, comes back home, as if nothing happened. Because she is the, I'm gonna say, she's the Amoud, how can I say, Amoud, she's basically the one who holds the household. So it's not easy being a woman because you're taught to be so practical sometimes and basically lose feeling because you're the one that's managing everything. And about the question about Saudi, sometimes I always get asked this question and it's so hard to answer it because as you can see, there's so much happening. And I don't think there's one answer that can give a justice, honestly. About women in Saudi. One of the things I was so excited about doing all these Middle East episodes was the Western media and the Western world has gone out of their way to paint the Middle East and people from this part of the world a certain way. Whether it's in movies, whether it's after 9-11, we have been demonized again and again and again. And I know your friends with Muhammad As-Salam-A-Az-Wal, I interviewed him in Riyadh when I was there. And I'm just really excited to take more Middle Eastern voices back to North America and showcase the beauty, the strength, the resilience, but also the tolerance that we have as people in this part of the world, you know? Yeah, we didn't have it easy. Like, you know, with all respect, like, you know... Especially Saudis. No, like as women, like for you to shine, for you, it took more time. We're not at where our country is developing so fast, which is amazing. You know, I remember one of the CNN reporters, I don't remember who it was, she said that Saudi is growing on a snail's pace. And I don't know about her name. I forgot her name. When her face is... A while, while back. So now when I remember that interview, I always say, I always wanted to, I wish I knew who she was. You should have looked at us now. You should have, you're sure. Look at me now, or look at us now. So it's so impressive. Like, you know, I just really wish I remembered her name. It was, I didn't forget that. You've just sent it to me, maybe we can add it to the show now. I have to find it, I have to find it, but honestly, I'm so proud of where we are today. You also do a really good job on your show because I was translating some of the videos to English, but you always speak from a place of vulnerability, right? And you open up about yourself. Has it been easy opening up on camera, knowing so many people are watching you and watching your show and being vulnerable and sharing your own personal insights and background? To be honest, like, I do share, but I don't think I share enough. I think I'm still filtered. Like, me saying that I met my husband before I married, maybe some people don't like to share that they knew their husbands before, but I think it's very normal to, at this stage in my life, I got married when I was 32. Obviously I was working and meeting men. So obviously I'm not gonna say that I... Had an arranged marriage. I had an arranged marriage. I like to be public and open about it. I met a good man and I'm so happy in my marriage. Alhamdulillah, you know, I'm 10 years together now. But in general, the sad thing about being on... Not the sad thing. There's a negative thing about being on TV because every time I talk about... We talk about a lot of topics. We talk about divorce, betrayal, love, pain. So every time you talk about something, they assume that you're going through with yourself. Like, the other day I was on my Instagram and I was like, by the way, I am a TV presenter and we have topics on the show. And when I talk about certain topics, it doesn't mean that I'm going through it. It means that I'm giving my insight on it. And there are topics that resonate with me and I will actually talk about them. Connect to it, yeah. Connect to it. But it doesn't mean when I'm talking about, like two episodes ago, I was talking about pain. And I was talking about friendships that I don't like overbearing friendships and friends that call and why didn't you call me? Why didn't you, when we have all busy lives, I try to, I tend to move away from friendships that push so hard. That suffocate you. That suffocate me. And I talked about relationships and I said, with relationships, I'm different. I am more tolerant. I try to always have a partner. Of course it's your partner. It's my partner. I try to have, if there's something that goes wrong, I will try to make it work. I will, and then we started talking about, like my friend, Shereen, on the show was saying that, usually men, if they didn't respect you and give you the value while they were with you, they will never give you value after. And I disagreed and I told her, actually, you might never know because if he, some men realize the value you had after you leave, although they probably have an ego and might never tell you, but he will value that relationship because he will probably compare you to others. So such things, like for example, like I was talking about, oh my God, are you in pain, Ed? Did you go through pain? Did anyone hurt you? Did anyone break your heart? Are you divorced? Like I always get this comment lately specifically. Are you divorced? Are you still with your husband? Because I don't show him on my social media anymore. Because I decided I wanted to, some men don't want to be shown. He doesn't like to be on social media. My husband's very private. So I started, I stopped posting him. So since that happened, it's like, oh my God, we're sure she's divorced. It's like a topic. And I don't know why I'm so important to be a topic. It's to me, it's so irrelevant. And it's a private, my private life, but the advantages, I have such great topics on the show. The disadvantages is that they relate that every topic is related to you. And I have a topic every week, so I'm pretty excited, I guess. I think, you know what it is? And I will say that because women being on TV talking about things like this are still new to the region. Relationships specifically. Relationships, especially in talking openly about it, is still not, it's still so fresh that they don't know how to perceive it, you know? I was talking to a friend the other day and I said, listen, the men that you meet today is always gonna be men that he is. Yes, they might make more money or this and that, but how they relate to stress, how they relate to work, how quickly the anger, who they are, that man will never change. And people are like, what do you mean? I was like, I'm just talking about in general, that is a research and that is what it shows, you know? That men are the way you meet them, they will stay that way. They will not change and they're not projects. And don't take a project to fix, you cannot fix a man. This is how he is and stuff expecting him to change. Women, however, we evolve and change so much from where we are in our 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s, we go on these journeys with ourselves and we discover spirituality and friendships in ourselves and we keep on discovering ourselves. We keep growing. We keep growing. And men are different. And that's why I feel like a lot of women after like say 20 years of marriage or 25, suddenly she's getting a divorce, why? They fall out of love, they change. You change. You change, you're not the same person you were at 20, that's at 40 or at 40, at 60. And I think it's healthy sometimes to move away. Like I'm someone that's not against divorce as well. I feel if it makes you happier, why not? I'm pro remarrying and meeting someone new because you know, I don't feel it's correct and right to just stay in a loveless marriage as well. 100%. I really have this belief that you can love again. You have to honor yourself. True. You have to honor your core belief systems. And I think the closer we get to ourselves through religion, through spirituality, through rediscovering our own inner truth, if the relationship you are in is not honoring that anymore, then why would you live inauthentically out of design? No questions, since I'm the interviewer, today I'm being interviewed. What about you and love lately? Tell me. I'm actually going to be going through a divorce. Oh. Yeah. No. I've been with my husband for five and a half years. However, he is one of my best friends. Okay, that's amazing. I have the most love and respect for this man. And I admire him so much, but we have just grown apart. And I decided I'm 42. I'm in a place that I want to have kids, but I don't want to have kids for the sake of having kids. And I love and respect him. We've been friends for such a long time, and I have so much admiration for him, but I said to him that it's not fair for either one of us to be in something unless we can really be in it 100%. And I have changed so much, and my needs have changed. And I think I've gotten closer to who I am and what I want to be. And it just doesn't work for me anymore. But you see what I liked about you? He's like, you said he's my best friend. He is. And what I love about that is that, you know, amicable divorce is something very hard and in general. It's a conscious uncoupling, which is where I'm able to do. I like the word conscious uncoupling. Yeah, listen, if Gwyneth Paltrow did it, why can't I do it? And you know what's funny? You asked me that because no one's spoken to me about it, but I'm really open about it. If somebody does ask me, I'm very close to his family. And so for me, when I was like, yeah, we're both Pakistani, we've been friends for a very long time. So when it came to me making this decision, I think it was a really hard decision because his family is my family. And I did not ever want to lose that connection. And in a way, I don't think we both. I was telling somebody the other day, I see him being in my life for the rest of my life. I see him eventually being with a different partner and me being married to somebody else and still being in each other's lives as friends. You don't think it would hurt you seeing him with someone else after? I'm now, I'm interviewing. Yeah, we saw the conversation. Nena, you have to understand that I am no one to, no, because you have to understand that I don't see him in that dynamic anymore, right? And he's more of a friend. And he is such an incredible person. Why should I hold him back from his happiness? I know you mean it. He is such a wonderful man. Okay, do you believe that in relationships, there's always one party that wants out and one that wants a bit in? No, I think it just depends on who you're with and what your dynamic is and what you both want. I don't think you can stay in a marriage unless you both have the same end goal and same end vision, same end views. And I think that has to be aligned. You know, I applaud you for being brave enough to actually. At 42, 42, you know, actually at 42, a lot of women are fearful of leaving the marriage because they're like, how am I gonna meet somebody else? Men are looking for younger women. Like I have a friend of mine, she's like, she always makes me laugh. She's like, basically if anybody leaves now, they're looking for younger women. They're looking, and then they give us the example of Jeff Bezos' life. And it's her third marriage and she's in her 50s and she passed menopause. She's found Jeff Bezos. Look at that, yeah, exactly. And I keep telling them that, like that's a one-off case. Now that I believe that the person for you is out there, there are eight billion people in this world. There must be one. Am I gonna sit there and believe? But there might be as well, like I always like to be realistic sometimes. You might meet that person and sometimes you might not, but this doesn't mean it's the end of the world. I don't, I think you have to do what's right for you. And I always say, in my case, it was beautiful that neither one of us has heard each other, none of us has to blame for anything. It was, it's for me, for both of us, it's extremely amicable. There is love and respect. She's actually my co-founder in the media company. Wow, amazing. And our third co-founder is my sister-in-law, who's my best friend. So, you're really, it's a family affair. No, no, it's a family affair and it will stay a family affair. Absolutely. And I always approach it from that perspective. You know, anybody who speaks to me about him, I speak, why would I not speak highly of him? I adore the man, I think he's incredible. And so... I'm sure you were married for five years, you were dating for how long? We weren't dating for that long, but we've known each other. We share a lot of our best friends. So our friend group is very similar. It's always gonna be the same. It's not gonna be the same. Of course it's gonna be the same. Our family is so interconnected. But that's very mature. That's very mature. It takes a lot to handle this your way and I love that. And I, and people were like, you're 42, what about having a kid? I'm like, guys, it's not about just settling down and having a kid. You have to be fulfilled in the chapter of your life that you're in and sometimes your paths start changing. Changing, it's so normal. And you want different things. I'm in a phase in my life that I'm looking to move back to the Middle East. I want to be closer to my family. I'm spending my time in Dubai, between Dubai and Miami. So listen, I know what I'm doing is out of the norm. I'm taking a step. That's exciting. I choose me. It's exciting and I believe in life. Sometimes you need to take these big decisions and you need to change and take your risk. You have to believe in the unknown. We just talked about spirituality. I believe that God has a plan for each and every one of us and we will end up exactly where we're meant to be. And you have to trust yourself and that you will guide yourself through this. No, I agree with you 100%. And it's nice to see. I wonder where I'll see you next year. Probably between here and Miami. You know, with a lot of opportunities in this part of the world. And I'm excited to see where my career goes. I'm excited to see where my life goes. I'm excited to see an evolution of my friendships. I'm Mashallah really grateful to have a really amazing support system. And so he has a great support system too. And just to see where our lives go and to look back and be like, I know that I'm doing the right thing for both of our sakes. That's so exciting. And I'm really proud of you actually. Thank you. This is a bold move. Yeah, so we reverse roles now, but I wanna leave our audience with a tip that you have for women listening about how to take the power back in their lives. Oh, it's a hard question. Take the power back in your life. You know, honestly. You know, cause we all have moments in our life that we feel powerless or confused or lost. So how can we find that strength again? You know, take a step back. I think for you to be, to have a clear vision of what you really want and how you can grow again is you need to really take a step back and look at things from the outside. I think we all go through part, like I think we feel sometimes we're overworked, we're overdoing, we're overdoing. And then we're not getting the result of what we're doing. I've been through this recently. And I took a step back. I went to Switzerland this summer, which is so on me. Yeah. So it's beautiful though with the boy that you must have loved it. Not my cup of tea, but in general, because I think I, oh, I, I, I, I, you know, like a nature to Avian so much. So I don't love nature so much. I'm more of a city girl, but I took a step back and there were certain things that I looked at in a different phase, but not there. That's the shocking part. It was so bored complaining while I was there. Really? I took a step back after the summer. Like I think it, like by mid August, I think I came back from the summer. I was traveling for three months. I came back and I stayed in Saudi for a good three weeks in a row for the first time. And I took a step back and I started thinking what I want to do differently. And I started actually, like let's say applying this in September and October. And I think now that we're hitting November, I feel I'm getting into a very good phase. The spirituality has increased in my life. I feel like my work has been better in ways. I planned doing something that I'm actually working on right now that I've been planning for two years that I never did. I focused more on my businesses and a lot of an operational things and my kids, more time with my kids. I canceled a lot of things I shouldn't have canceled because I felt it wasn't the time for them. And like after my grandmother passed away, I felt I wanted to grieve. And usually, Neda would just jump in again. And I did take that time for myself. And I got the very, hopefully you'll see soon, but I can't say this now. I got a deal that I really wanted to get for the past five years in this influencer field. Which I never thought I would get at 42. And I'm so proud of that. It was an international brand that's gonna be big. I'm filming it tomorrow, inshallah, God willing. So to me, a lot of things worked out after I took that step back. So don't always, like, I am the biggest example of someone that rushes and I'm impatient and I'm a go-getter. But I really think after all these years, this is the first time I took a step back. And I also think there were some things that were happening that I feel like I undervalued myself. And now I'm learning how to love me again and value myself again. Sometimes you go out to a phase where you feel a bit insecure. And have imposter syndrome and all that. Self doubt, self doubt, insecure. You feel you're chasing. And I think honestly, when I took a step back, I realized what are you doing? Wake up. Look at you. I think a lot of us in our 40s, especially our hormones change, life changes, all of this stuff, have to retake our power back. And what does that mean is very personal to each woman. But I think to stop, create space, re-empower yourselves with things that make you feel good, surround yourself with the right people. And all of us go through imposter syndrome. My son the other day told me, Mama, look at you, Mama. You're so beautiful. You're smart. You're sweet. You're kind. You're rich. I'm not rich. I think he says I'm rich because I can buy him toys. And I was like, and it was so nice that he was telling me this. And I was like, you know, sometimes you really need to hear it from a child. Yeah. And like, you need to hear it. So now I always look in the mirror and I tell him, you have to say these things. Just I'm smart. I tell my son, now to look in the mirror in the morning. And tell his future wife that as well. Yeah. I'm smart. I'm going to speak Arabic more. I'm this, I'm that. And he doesn't in the mirror every time he goes to school. And I taught him that because I started doing it myself because it gives you that boost. Who did I see recently? Chelsea Lately or something. And she said, good morning to my amazing self or something. Absolutely. You have to do that more. You need to teach yourself to love yourself even sometimes when you're like, when you're in doubt, when you're then doubt. And we all go through this phase. We're not always strong. No, of course not. We have moments that break us. Life breaks you. And yeah. Life will bring you down on your knees only to rebuild stronger from where you were. Exactly. Exactly. And I'm really thank you for having me on this podcast. We've been planning it for quite some time. And it worked out. By chance. You were going to be here in the mob. Yeah, exactly. We managed to get a date. And I'm just so excited to share you with my community, share you with my audience and show such a beautiful side of the Middle Eastern women. So thank you. And I'm glad to share you on my platform as well. Because I get to know you more. I get to know more about biohacking. Like honestly, not a lot of people also know much about biohacking and our part of the world. So I think what's amazing about your podcast is you can say you're going to be the eye-opener. Thank you. Very new. Like longevity, biohacking is very new in our part of the world. And I know you were part of the summit now in Saudi. So that's great. I'm looking forward to seeing more of you in our part of the world. Insha'Allah. Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you for having me.