VANISHED IN MONTANA: ASHLEY HEAVYRUNNER'S FAMILY DESPERATE PLEA

This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Vanished in Montana. Beautiful Ashley Loring Heavy Runner. Family makes a desperate plea tonight. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I wanna thank you for being with us. Ashley Heavy Runner is a bright, funny student preparing for a better future. Until one day she vanishes in Brownie, Montana and is never heard from again. I always think of Montana as this beautiful oasis, really with mountains and prairies, wildlife. I don't think of it as high crime. I want to go to a high school. I want to hike in Montana. I want to breathe in the fresh air of Montana. I don't want to investigate a missing person's case in Montana. That's like somebody goes missing at Disneyland. It just doesn't compute. But yet it happened. Joining us on all-star panel, including a special guest, Kimberly Loring Heavy Runner. This is Ashley's sister. But before I go to Ms. Kimberly, straight to Dave Mack, Crime Stories investigative reporter. Dave, just explain to everyone what we know of how sister Ashley seemingly disappeared. Well, what we know Nancy is that Ashley leaves her mother's house to part with friends at home. She's actually videotaped. And this 20-year-old college student videotaped at the party sitting on a couch, just like anybody else. But it's that night. That's the last time we have any videotape of her, any pictures of her, because Ashley leaves the party with someone and vanishes. We don't see her again. And it's really interesting that Ashley had planned to leave the reservation and start out fresh with her sister in Missoula. Isn't that true? She was on the cusp of leaving. Yeah, her sister Kimberly was out of the country at the time, but they were preparing to get together and move in together. Ashley was excited. Kimberly was excited about the two of them living together. And Ashley had a really good goal plan set up for what she was gonna do with College and Beyond that, Nancy. So yeah, this is on the cusp of a young adulthood that is with really good stuff. Well, you're telling me she was last seen at a party? Yes, with friends. Party with friends. Okay, then explain to me about the plans they had, they were planning to start over fresh and that she had returned from a trip and the family didn't hear from her. Now, both can be true. She could have gotten back from a trip and went to a party. Kimberly was out of the country when Ashley went missing. Kimberly actually Facebook message with Ashley, the oldest of the sister, she was out of the country. Ashley was in Browning, Montana at her mother's house. And on the Blackfeet Reservation, Ashley was going to a party with friends that night. Kimberly was coming back from Audrey. And it was after this they were with him. For some reason, I thought that Kimberly was also at the party. Okay, now I understand. Okay, very slowly, Dave Mack, tell me that fact scenario one more time. I'm gonna make sure I've got the timeline right. Okay, Ashley is at her home with her mother with Loxie. And Loxie is the last person that actually sees Ashley before she leaves to go to the party. Loxie is Ashley's mother. Ashley goes to the party and while she's there, she sends a message via Facebook Messenger to her sister, Kimberly. Kimberly is out of the country at the time. But when Kimberly comes back home, they, Ashley and Kimberly have plans to move in together. Ashley is moving in with Kimberly. So that's the timeline for that evening of June the 5th, Nancy. Okay, so mom's at home on the ranch. Ashley goes to a party with friends. And where was the party, Dave Mack, do we know? It was in the largest town on the Blackfeet Reservation called Browning. Okay, and a problem with anyone that vanishes or goes missing on a reservation to Brian Fitzgibbons, Director of Operations USPA, Nationwide Security. He leads a team of investigators that do nothing but locate and extract missing people around the world. He is a former Marine and Marraki war vet. Problem with reservations. There is no federal or local law enforcement allowed on. They are beyond our jurisdiction. Every reservation is its own Indian territory. And we don't have any jurisdiction there. The feds can't just go in and go, hey, I wanna search your house. I think Ashley was here. Impossible. That would be like the cops running over to Tijuana and busting down a door to search for drugs. They don't have jurisdiction to do that. Even if they're right, they still can't do it. Agree, disagree. Yeah, in this case, the Blackfeet Law Enforcement Services is the tribal law enforcement authority that has jurisdiction in Browning and was immediately handling Ashley's case. And I know that the family has reported quite a bit of frustration with the feedback and responsiveness that they got after initial searches for Ashley came up blank. And it goes so far. Let me also stress this. The Blackfeet Law Enforcement Services denied media requests like FOIA requests for Information Freedom and Information Act. They don't even have to give that out because they are immune to freedom of Information Act requests. That's US law. And they are their own independent territory. They don't have to give anybody anything. Okay, how is that helping the search for Ashley? She's beautiful. She's brilliant. She's funny. She's last seen at a party. That's where I would start the investigation. Where is the party who was at the party? Who are these friends? Did the friends see her leave the party? Remember Natalie Holloway? How could you not remember Natalie Holloway? She goes on senior trip. She's at a casino with all of her friend girls. She leaves with Yoran VanderSloot and the Calpo Brothers. I think that a drug was put in her drink. Her friends, they're gone. They're separated. And she ends up dead. Did that happen that night? Joining us hopefully with some answers, Ashley's sister, Kimberly Loring Heavy Runner. Ashley's sister, Kimberly, thank you for being with us tonight. Oh yes, of course. Thank you so much for having me. Well, honestly, the honor is mine, Kimberly. Kimberly, I want you to explain everything you know about the party your sister attended the last night she was seen alive. Yes, it was hosted at this gentleman's place that is known to having very like really awful parties where they throw cold water on people who are passed out and they post it all over YouTube and people laugh at it. So this is what type of person this guy is. He's able to share these type of stories, but also he lied to me about the party and said that they didn't. He said that he'd never seen Ashley at his house. He only seen her with my uncle and then he did admit there was a party and but the video was deleted in June. But on another podcast, they stated that it wasn't deleted, but it was deleted in June. So they lied about the party from the very beginning. And then he is seen talking about it. OK, so this is a guy that throws parties. According to Ashley's sister, where people are mocked and it's posted online. OK, that's not a good look, but it's not a crime. This is what I find significant, Kimberly. If his story has changed, repeat, no one has been named a person of interest. No one has been named a suspect. He may have not wanted to divulge. She was at his home at a party just to stay out of trouble. So police wouldn't come question him about it. I've seen that happen a lot. People lie about something tangential or innocent. And then they become a suspect because they lied. Now, just because we don't like him because of his postings doesn't mean he has anything to do with Ashley's disappearance. But Brian Fitzgibbons, let's just add this up. If this is accurate and there may be an innocent explanation, which you have to run down and figure out. First of all, he said she wasn't at the party. He lied about the party according to Kimberly. He said he didn't see her. Then later says, oh, yes, there was a party, but we deleted the video, the home video. Then later stated the video still exists and people have actually seen it. I find that disturbing. I'm not calling him out as a suspect or a person of interest, but I find it very disturbing that he wouldn't say, yes, she was here. I saw her. Maybe I've got it on video. Let me look. Yeah. And I'll tell you, Nancy, one of the reasons why I personally and everyone on my team spends quite a bit of time on interviewing. I've seen interviews in missing persons cases of anybody who saw this person around the time that they went missing. The second point is that we spend quite a bit of time going back and asking the same questions again, sometimes weeks, sometimes months, sometimes years later. What we're looking for there is any inconsistencies. Has their story changed? And if so, where did it change? And, you know, to have this gentleman say there wasn't a party, when there was a party, she was there, she wasn't there. This is a major inconsistency that that should not to be looked into further. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Inconcistencies matter when someone goes missing, even if you think it's a subtle or non critical point. You never know what's going to be important. So Kimberly, Lauren, heavy runner, this is Ashley's sister. The night of the party, how do you know she was at the party? We were we were told that a family member was able to see the video of her, that she was just sitting on a couch. And they were playing pool or something. Did she look distraught or upset in any way? No, they said she was just sitting there. Was she having a drink? I don't I don't know. They just said that there was just like a like it was like a video where they just kind of pan the room, but I've never got to see the video. Uh huh. Do you believe that? I believe that they are so openly about sharing their parties. Why not share this one? Why lie about it? Why be so open about the mocking? But not be open about somebody sitting on a couch. That's a really good point, Kimberly. So video exists and your relative saw her in the video sitting on the sofa. Was anyone sitting with her, Kimberly? Yeah, they said that there was people around like it was just like a normal. Uh, so it didn't seem like you should be alarming at the time. But why delete it if it was just a normal pan of a party? Do you know anyone else that was at the party, Kimberly? We know we know the individual who filmed it. He is the cousin of the man on the house. Have they been questioned by authorities? I know that they've been they've been spoken to and then see that is the whole problem is that is that we were working with the tribal law enforcement about her case and we had suspects from the very beginning from day one. Kimberly, Lauren, heavy runner. When did you first realize your sister is missing? When I returned from Morocco on June 8th, I found it weird that she didn't call me and then the very next day, I remember looking at her Facebook and I said, and I said, it said class active 18 hours ago, which is very odd. But we were told that she was with a family friend. So it was OK. And then my mom couldn't she wasn't able to get a hold of her. So is that out of character for Ashley not to be active online for 18 hours? Well, sometimes she loses her phone. She loses her phone a lot or she breaks her phone. So it seemed like it was OK. But for just a couple of days, you know, and then after when it turned into a week and then two weeks and then it was alarming and then we got a tip and then her first search was on the 25th of June and the mountains. What was the tip? The tip was that she was seen running from a vehicle and it was going up the mountains on Highway 89. It's called Divide, Divide Mountain. And you mentioned Highway 89. Was it still on the reservation? Yes, it was on the reservation. It was right on the border of the Glacier National Park. Question, what kind of vehicle? I believe it was a Monte Carlo color. It was blue. Kimberly, do you believe it was a credible tip? Do you know who gave the tip? I was never told who gave the tip, but we were told by Homeland Security on the reason why we're up in the mountain area. They said that they were told that the police were told by somebody that they saw her running and that's why we were searching in that area. Then the name Sam McDonald emerges. Listen to McDonald. Somebody asked me one time, Sam, why what's wrong with the way to go out with this young girl? Is there something wrong with me? Why would a 20 year old want to go out with a 55 year old? About that time I leaned my chair back. We hadn't been up for days, you know, and just like that, I went to sleep. And when I woke up, she was gone. That's for our friends at ABC News. Dave Mack, who is Sam McDonald? And what does he have to do with Ashley other than claiming he dates her? Well, Sam McDonald is in his mid fifties and he claims that he had actually with him from the night of the party for the next six days that she was up in his cabin, which is near St. Mary's Lake. Sam McDonald has been very vocal about being with Ashley and that he claims, Sam McDonald claims, that he is the person who dropped her off. When he said that he leaned his chair back, he's claiming that Ashley was texting somebody who was going to come and get her that she referred to as the dog. OK, now this V dog, that's where Sam McDonald claims he leaned his chair back and fell asleep when he woke up 40 minutes later. Ashley was gone. OK, that's quite the coincidence that he didn't wake up when Ashley left. Kimberly, Lauren, heavy runner. What do you make of that? Additional fact. I find it bogus because on another podcast, he stated that they woke up that morning and then and then he stated again that they were up for days and he leaned his back and went to sleep. Her family searches the Blackfeet reservation, finding only what maybe the tattered clothing Ashley was last seen wearing. Many who might have valuable information remain silent about what happened to her. How can a beautiful young girl, her life in front of her, just vanish into thin air that did not happen? Joining us tonight, very special guest. I can't emphasize that enough. This is Ashley's sister, Kimberly Loring, heavy runner, who has taken her battle to find her sister all the way to the US Capitol. Has it helped? Not yet, but we're not giving up also with us. I face, you know, very well. Pain Lindsey joining us podcast host. That really doesn't say it all podcast host because Lindsey goes all over the country trying to solve cases. And do I have to say the two words Tara Grinstead? Because he did so much to crack that case wide open. Host, executive producer of Up and Vanished. Pain, thank you for being with us and Brian Fitzgibbons joining us. Director of operations, USPA, nationwide security. I say this every time I introduce to him. He is, as I said, director of operations, but he leads a team of investigators that go across the world finding and extracting missing people. He runs that team. He is a former Marine and Iraqi war vet. Needless to say, he's seen it all. I want to go straight out. And of course, Dave Matt, Crime Stories, investigative reporter. Straight out to pain Lindsey. Pain, I don't know why it's so difficult getting answers in this case. Tell me what you have learned so far. I mean, Nancy, this isn't a mystery where nothing happened. Something definitively happened to Ashley in a tight window of time around specific people. This case hasn't been empty. It's been quiet. But behind the scenes, Kimberly, myself, no matter what law enforcement is or isn't doing, we're looking at these same suspects, these same persons of interest. And it's only a matter of time because the secrets they're keeping aren't going to be secret for very long. OK, hold on just a moment, Payne. I want to start at the beginning because you and I and Kimberly know the history of the case. Start at the beginning, Payne Lindsey. The timeline is kind of murky in terms of exactly what our Ashley may have gone missing, but we have identified key individuals that have bizarre stories surrounding them who were the last people to see her alive. And I've talked to these people in person. And in some way or another, these individuals hold the key to where Ashley is now and what may have actually happened to her. And the bottom line is, you know, I'm an independent journalist. I'm a podcaster. I go and knock on these guys' doors, but I can't put cuffs on anybody. And so if law enforcement isn't at least listening to what we're doing or hearing Kimberly out, then we're just stuck in a void here. And so it's time for someone in charge to get up and do some investigative things like make a phone call, re-interview somebody. And I think once that starts happening, if it happens at all, this is no longer a big mystery. She was last seen at night walking near a residence on the reservation, reportedly heading toward a specific home where there was a party allegedly had. And in the hours surrounding her disappearance, there were several conflicting accounts about who she was with, where she may have been going, and more importantly, what actually happened next. There were early rumors of an altercation or violence, though nothing really definitively confirmed publicly. But the timeline of her last no movements, though it's not been fully clarified, we have found people that she was with. One of those people I'll refer to his first name is Sam. She spent days with this person. And according to him, he fell asleep in her car or he fell asleep in his car and then she vanished. You know, this is not one of those stories that you like to hear. It's either true or it isn't true. This is something that he offered himself. But it goes beyond just Sam. There were other players in the story. And I think her movements extend beyond that moment in the car. I think the answer lies there. Pain question. I want to pick it up with Sam. It's eerily reminiscent of another case you and I have both worked on. Crystal Rogers, remember her boyfriend falls asleep with her in the bed next to him playing games on her phone and he wakes up and she's gone. You know, I'm always suspicious when somebody falls asleep and they wake up and the person is just gone. But it has happened, truly has happened in life on a few rare occasions so you can't count it out. Pain, can you place her anywhere after being with Sam? I can place her with near certainty somewhere else. You know, on the surface, Sam's story sounds like total BS. But I will say I went and knocked on Sam's door and I talked to him for hours. I talked to him again after that and again after that. And I believe most of his story, I think it's very inconvenient for him. It's not the best excuse if someone goes missing right after you fall asleep. But based on the timeline and other witnesses and other interviews I've conducted, her story doesn't end there. There are other interactions and she's with other people at different locations. And so I think the answer lies beyond Sam himself. You know, to Kimberly, Loring Heavy Runner, Ashley's sister, who has taken her battle all the way to the White House, all the way to Capitol Hill, Kimberly, I don't necessarily have to believe that Sam is scrubbed in sunshine. But if we can place your sister after being at Sam's cabin, then so be it. Do you believe she was alive after her sojourn at Sam's cabin? Kimberly. No, I don't believe that she ever left Sam's cabin. So you discount the other witnesses that Payne has spoken with. Yes, there's too many inconsistencies with their stories and they do not match up with the days, the weather, it doesn't make any sense on what they're saying. And they do not match up with Sam's days as well. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. You know, Payne Lindsay, I have faced that many, many times in court where a witness gets a lot right, but there are glaring problems and they may be problems with the weather, the lighting, the location. But if the general story can be corroborated, you just have to explain to a jury. This is why they got the date wrong. I had that a lot in chivalrous station cases because children don't look at the calendar or the clock the way adults do. You'd have to ask them questions like, was there a Christmas tree up? Had the Easter Bunny come? I was sitting around Halloween. What did you wear as a costume to narrow down a general time? So you have to work with a witness's frailties and their bad memory. And you have to be able to cull through all of their technical legal term. Payne Lindsay, crap. And figure out what's real. Are you Payne Lindsay convinced she was alive after Sam's cabin? Well, here's the thing to kind of piggyback off of what Kimberly's saying. Yeah, the story of Ashley, her movements beyond Sam are very murky and there's conflicting stories, but I don't think it's as simple as I mean, but she's not at Sam's house now. And so I do believe that other parties, wherever it was, it could have been down the street from Sam's where he said he was or somewhere else. Other parties became involved at a certain point. And that's when something happened. I don't think that there are days that have transpired. And also just for the sake of clarity here, Sam is not ruled out by any means. This is his story is being taken with a grain of salt. And just how a police officer might be like, oh, yeah, you know, we're no longer investigating you. Don't think for a second that we're not questioning every single word this man says. And, you know, Kimberly has a good point. You know, you can go down all these and rabbit holes, but if it always kind of leads back to a certain point in time, then you have to go back there. And so I think that there are other people, like I said earlier, who are involved, who at some point had an interaction either with Sam and Ashley or in helping get rid of her. And that's the reality we're looking at here. The bottom line to Brian Fitzgibbons joining us, director of operations, USP, a nationwide security. This is very similar and hear me out because on surface, it's not similar at all to the Ellen Greenberg case. Ellen Greenberg was murdered. She was stabbed many, many times, ten times in the back. And it was real suicide. That said, this case of Ashley, heavy runner, reminds me of the Ellen Greenberg case because there has not been a full and independent investigation contemporaneously with the disappearance and or death. And it's very hard. It's Humpty Dumpty trying to go back and all the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty together again, trying to piece together. Ashley's disappearance, like trying to piece together Ellen's murder. It's really hard to do in retrospect. Right. So this is what you do for a living. What would you do now? And remember one Indian reservation where everybody's seeing no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. So what do you do, Fitzgibbons? Yeah, you've pointed this out that, you know, Payne Lindsay has done the most exhaustive investigation of anybody related to this case, including, you know, the Blackfeet Law Enforcement Service and the FBI, you know, and going back this amount of time, we need to do exactly what Payne has done. Re-interview folks that are connected to this case because you have a number of people who have extensive criminal records associated with the last moments that were aware of Ashley's movements. Those are, you know, circled and highlighted red and yellow need to be looked at here. So did you have anything to do with her disappearance? No, I fell asleep. That's the only wrong thing I did. I'll probably never forgive myself. Do you feel kind of bad about that? Yeah, what do you think? You know? Yeah, I feel bad. I don't know what happened to you know, I feel bad for Kimberly and her grandma. That is from Payne Lindsay's up and Vanis true crime podcast. He has investigated this extensively, but yet still no action. Who is the mysterious Sam? Let me refresh your recollection. Somebody asked me one time, Sam, why what's wrong with the way to go out with this young girl? Is there something wrong with me? Why would a 20 year old want to go out with a 55 year old? About that time I leaned my chair back. We had been up for days, you know, and just like that, I went to sleep. And when I woke up, she was gone. That is the mysterious Sam who has stated he had nothing to do with Ashley's disappearance and has not been named as the P. O. I. person of interest or suspect. That's from our friends at ABC News. Let's circle back to what we do know. How do you piece together a case in this condition to pay Lindsay joining us? He is the star and producer of Up and Vanished Payne. How many people have you interviewed? In this case, I've interviewed dozens, dozens and dozens, I would say probably near 40. I also want to say to his comment earlier, thank you for the kind words. But I'd like to say that Kimberly has been the biggest investigator in this case outside of myself. She has held the torch in this case, in pursuit of justice. And she has been in the weeds just like us. And all the time she lives and breathes this. And so this case is still alive. Thanks to her, too. So with 40 interviews under your belt, all the work that Sister Kimberly has done, we still don't have answers. I mean, Kimberly luring heavy runner. How does that make you feel? There's really no words that makes me feel as just extremely. Just extremely difficult and painful to know that we've talked to so many people. But yet. But we're still asking where Ashley's at. But it's just very hard. Kimberly, as I mentioned to you, has gone all the way to Washington, D.C. Begging for help. She spoke on Capitol Hill. Listen. If they would have taken her serious as as a person, because we are important, I believe that my sister would have been here or we would have had closure. And this is a fundamental question of how we value some of the of human life and those who are the most vulnerable. And that you can be a voice for those who don't have a voice here today. And I hope that message is received strongly by our law enforcement, by members of Congress, so that we can conduct investigations and find out what happened to Ashley. Big talk, little do. You were hearing Kimberly speaking at an Indian Affairs Committee in Washington. And you were hearing Senator Steve Daines, who said all the right things. But yet nothing happens. Hey, Lindsey, what do I have to do? Stick a dynamite of somebody's rear end to get movement on this? That actually might help. You know, here's the thing. It's it's easier for someone like the FBI to do what exactly what I did. You know, I did it as a citizen and found someone's address and got their number, took a normal flight and drove out to Montana and went to this guy's cabin to interview him. And so it would take literally one weekend for two FBI agents who frequent this area and are also through and charged when it comes to investigations like this to just literally go do what cops do and knock on some doors and do some detective work. Dr. Toshina T. Running Crane. They said that I killed her. They say that I caught my husband and her. What? Who is they? That's my friends at ABC News. OK, now I've got a what is that pain? Who is she that is saying, quote, they said I killed her. They say I caught my husband and her. But I didn't. What's that? That's somebody who is reacting strangely to Facebook comments and just local commentary about her alleged involvement. I've also spoken with with T several times. And, you know, my read on her specifically is that. While she may know a little bit more than she's saying, she seems to be more or less wrapped up in a narrative or close in proximity to something that happened, but isn't the person that we're exactly looking for. Now, that doesn't mean that anyone's. So she may know something, but she's not responsible. Is that your take? Yes, I think people it's human nature for a lot of people to self preserve even your own character when it comes to a murder case, which I believe this to be. People are hesitant to give the whole truth. That doesn't mean that they are the killer, but it does mean they may be holding back a piece of information that make them look bad. But that that might be the thing we need to finally piece this together. Look, as I always say, you've heard me say it in court. Your witnesses are not going to all be nuns and priests and virgins. You got to take your witness as you find them and don't try to fluff them up in front of the jury. The jury will see straight through that. But yet still no action. We still don't have the definitive answer and a prosecution in the case of missing Ashley, heavy runner. Now we we know her sister hasn't given up. The last time I talked to Ashley was on June 6th. Ashley was asking me when I was going to come back from my trip. I was in Africa at the time. The last time she was on Facebook was on June 8th. She was seen on June 13th. Received several tips that she was hurt, that she was murdered and that she was was she was seen running from the vehicle. That is from our friends at KRTV3 and Equity Talks. OK, pain. I've heard in my own investigation, multiple reports she was saying running from a vehicle. What can you tell me about that? True, false and what are the details? I think it comes down to the exact time frame of when people saw this, because if it happened before she went to Sam's house, it's kind of irrelevant. But if this is in any way putting her in the timeline after she was with Sam, which was for a couple of days, then it's crucial. But because of that sort of confusion, you have to kind of really get down to the bottom of where this lands. In the whole bigger picture here, Kimberly, Lauren, heavy runner with us. Kimberly, I just happened to see this on X Twitter. That's how I found out about it. It is getting no coverage. I just happened to find out about it and then set off trying to find you to talk about your sister's disappearance. First of all, why is there no coverage of your sister's disappearance? And do you believe Tashina running crane story that she had nothing to do with your sister's disappearance? I don't believe my cousin Tashina's story with the disappearance of my sister, actually, because Tashina was the first person that I reached out to because of her lifestyle and the reaction that I received when I first reached out to you, it really broke my heart because it really just sealed the deal that that my cousin had something to do with that had everything to do with Ashley's disappearance. You at least at the very least believe that running crane knows more than she's telling. Oh, yes, I believe that she has every she knows more than what she's saying, just because from the very beginning, she was trying to point the finger to people. But as of right now, she's actually pointing the finger at me and saying that I've done something to my sister, which is just it's crazy. OK, that's ridiculous. And I want to point out again, Tashina T running crane is not a person of interest, not a suspect. And therein lies the problem, Brian Fitzgibbons. The case has not been investigated. So I don't know who's a P.O.Y. If there is a P.O.Y. Nothing, because for some reason, nobody is doing anything to find Ashley Heavy Runner. I'm flummoxed. Yeah, and Tashina running crane is also associated closely. And I believe at least maybe romantically was involved with a person of interest that Sam indicated that Ashley was last seen with or dropped off to meet in that final day that he reported. So, you know, the number of people around this case who have had numerous contacts with law enforcement on unrelated cases makes this very difficult to get a straight story out of them. Brian Fitzgibbons, you and I are both concerned about a prior incident. Explain. Yeah, near near the time of her disappearance, you know, it's been reported by Payne Lindsey that Ashley returned to her father's house in a state of panic, shutting the blinds, attempting to hide inside his residence, saying that somebody was something had happened that she needed to hide from. So, you know, that's another key piece of information to add color to what was happening in those final days. So in my mind, that is a definite lead, Payne Lindsey. What happened? Do you know? I mean, it all comes down to who's car did she get into? Who was she afraid of? The answers are right there if we can figure that part out. I believe that testimony, it just comes down to, you know, who's car did she get into? Where'd she go? Was that Sam? Was that Paul? Was that T? Was that some other third player that took her somewhere else? I don't know. But they haven't come forward and admitted that. And that's problematic. So I think that you're looking at a lead that if we can just track it all the way down, it could probably take you to the very end of this entire case. You know, Payne, I still do not understand why this case and many other similar cases get no attention because she lives on an Indian reservation. Her life doesn't matter. And why does everything have to go through the Bureau of Indian Affairs? Any other case, we would be begging the FBI. We would be begging local law enforcement. People will be lying on the courthouse steps, screaming for justice. But nothing, nothing. You, me, a few others. And I don't understand it. Payne, it's like, eh, doesn't matter. It's like throwing away a paper cup into the trash can. I mean, it's a bureaucratical mess when it comes to investigating crimes like this on tribal land like that. But the bottom line is there's a clean solution. The FBI has the ultimate authority and go in there and do whatever they want. And they do. They just haven't put their focus here, at least that I've seen. Well, Dave Mack, Crime Stories Investigative Reporter, Payne is right. Regarding the FBI, explain. The FBI got involved in the case after about six and a half months and they took over the lead. You've got to remember on that black feet reservation, Nancy, there's only 17 full time law enforcement. It's the state of Dell. It's the size of the state of Delaware. So the feds did and became the lead on this investigation seven months in. If you know or think you know anything about Ashley's disappearance, 801-579-1400, it is amazing to me that Payne Lindsay has done more interviews and more work on this case. Then law enforcement, why is that? How much more does sister Kimberly have to endure knocking on doors, begging, screaming, crying to get answers in her sister's disappearance? The family may not have money to put up a reward that we see in many cases. But Payne Lindsay has put up a fifty thousand dollar reward for information leading to the whereabouts and the truth of what happened to Ashley. Heavy runner, fifty thousand dollars. Tonight, we remember an American hero, deputy sheriff Caleb Mitchell, 24, killed in the line of duty, leaving behind his pregnant wife and a two year old child. American hero, deputy sheriff Caleb Mitchell. Thank you to our guests, especially to Kimberly, Loring Heavy Runner and Brian Fitzgibbons and Payne Lindsay. But thank you for being with us tonight and keeping Ashley's case alive. Nancy Gray signing off. I'll see you tomorrow night and until then, good night, friend.