834: I Am The Tardis

hello and welcome to mac power users my name is steven hackett i'm joined by my friend and yours mr david sparks hello steven how are you today buddy i am much better uh a big big thanks to to our friend chris bailey for filling in for me yeah um i was quite sick i had no voice i sent you a voice memo at some point i was like no one needs to hear this uh yeah that was funny first it was weird i'm like why is steven sending me a voice memo i'm like oh okay i get it i so i'm not a big voice memo user i had to like find it in my messages like the list of apps and messages um but yes uh after several days of not speaking to anybody and more hot tea and cider than any one man should drink i am i'm back well it's funny this chris came in at the last minute he did a great job and thanks again chris for coming in and uh we were talking about ai kind of around the the episode because chris is really kind of not into ai he just wrote his new book he didn't even use like a grammar checker because he didn't want anyone to accuse him of using ai to write and but since we recorded the episode he's been texting me he's discovered ai for what i like to call donkey work to do like busy work for him and being on the show has triggered something for chris i think so now we're gonna have to have him back at some point to talk about all the stuff he's doing yeah no it was a great episode uh i listened to it uh uh when it came out on sunday and yeah thank you again chris preliminary announcements uh i just want to thank everybody for the support with the productivity field guide um it's a weird field guide for me i admit you know it's not one i'm talking about software it's about kind of like how to run your life and I got lots of great email from doing this the last few years and, and a bunch of people come back again to do it and shared it with their friends and family. And, um, the Mac power users is a, an audience that I just wanted to think specifically because I know you guys are there for me and, and thank you. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad it went well. Um, yeah, I know that's always, uh, uh, like you said, it's a different one. I know it feels different to launch that thing or launch an update to it. So it's weird for me to do something yearly because usually I make a field guide and then it's out there until it needs updating, which can be sometimes years at a time. And doing this thing yearly, the reason I'm doing it yearly is because I want this information to get out there and I want people to use it. So it's great. And I just wanted to say thank you. Yeah, that's awesome. today on more power users which is the longer ad-free version of the show we do each and every week uh we're going to circle back to something that was in the news a few a couple weeks ago now but we're going to really get into like the rumored folding phone and the size the use case all that sort of stuff so for members stay tuned at the end of the show we're gonna get into that yeah i'm looking forward to that me too uh before we get into our feedback episode we have some news to share. We do, yeah. So I'm going to get to the point right away, and then we can talk about what's gone under this decision. But after seven years, I am stepping away from Mac Power users. So a little bit of background for this decision, and we're going to talk about what comes next. The show's not going anywhere. Don't worry. We've got a great plan. but it is the right time to step back a bit from my podcasting output and focus more on the behind the scenes of both the companies I'm involved with of course Relay the podcast network and then cross forward with underscore where we make Widget Smith and Panamera++ etc. Both companies benefit from more of my time and attention so for example over the last couple of years my responsibility is connected with Widgetsmith and our other apps have expanded and we're growing the team over there and I need to have more time and attention spent with that team and likewise Relay is also in a transition so we really have pivoted over the last couple of years as a podcast network as the advertising market has struggled we've relied on membership more and actually the last couple of years Relay's kind of bottom line has been basically 50-50 between ads and membership. And I need to focus more on the company side of things there as well as we continue to navigate what quite honestly can be a tricky landscape. So that's what I'm going to do, spend more time behind the scenes. About a month ago, I spoke to David about this initially. And gang, I mean, as you would expect, Sparky has been supportive and understanding. And really, it has been so good and helpful for me to have your support, David, even though it's tough, right? But NPU is a show that has had several transitions, right? So when you and Katie first started it, it was indie, and then it was on 5x5, and then it joined Relay in 2015. And then I joined the show in January 2019. and when David asked me to join as Katie was leaving, it was a true honor. I will forever remember where I was when you called me. I'm like, hey, what do you think about this? And we have worked really hard to make sure that this transition is as smooth as the previous one. So do you want to talk a little bit about that? Yeah. I mean, just first of all, I do want to say I wish Stephen nothing but well with this i mean he has some opportunities he needs to pursue for his family family first and i understand mac power users is a show that takes a lot of work i mean it's not a normal podcast where you can just kind of show up and talk about the news so um when he explained to me that like hey you know this other stuff is taking a lot more time and i just can't give mpu what it deserves i got it you know but but i was sad too because steven is a dear friend and and because Mac powers is so hard to make a co-host is not easy. You know, it's getting the right person. It's not easy because a lot of people just don't want to work that hard. Yeah. And frankly, a lot of people don't have the skills. So you need someone who can communicate, who's a teacher, who's willing to do the work. And honestly, it needs to be somebody that I can get along with. I'm not into the idea of Mac power users being a show where the co-hosts are always at each other's throats. I, I want it to be a fun experience of listening to the show, learn a few things i mean my secret formula for this show which i'll now share with you is i just want everybody in the audience to get at least one thing they can use out of every episode like so when we when i talked to chris bailey and maybe you got something about his his new book or maybe you got something about the way he uses text edit but um or maybe in his favorite apps and services at the end one of those resonated with you but my goal is every episode is to give every person in the audience something useful and that's a hard goal and the co-host has to be in there with me and steven has been he's given this thing 110 for seven straight years i mean when you when you see our outlines and you see like especially some of the research steven has done for the show it's it's awesome and like so when you were saying you're leaving i'm like damn you know you had the skill the ability you're someone i liked and you you were willing to do the work that's like how do you replace steven hackett so um so i went on a little search last month i've been talking to actually quite a few people um as this has been kind of evolving and you know and there's a there's a lot of good people out there that would have would have come in to do the job uh but ultimately um we have chosen the new co-hosts and um it's someone that actually even Steven recommended to me. And, uh, uh, it's a guy, he's not on the relay network. You may or may not have heard of him. His name is Steven Robles. So we're getting another Steven in. Yeah. And, uh, Steven is a, he used to be a podcaster, I believe with apple insider. And, uh, he has done a lot of YouTube lately that he does mix a lot of YouTube videos. We'll put his YouTube link in, but he's not coming on the show to talk about being a YouTuber. He's coming on to teach. And I've had a lot of conversation with Steven Robles, and I feel like he's got the right attitude. He's a good teacher. He considers himself a teacher, as I do. He's willing to do the work. I genuinely like the guy. He's fun to be around. And I think he's going to be a great new chapter for Mac Power Users. And I'm going to really miss you, Steven Hackett. And I'm going know welcome in steven robles with open arms and i think the show will go on but we'll miss you yeah no that that means a lot and i'm i'm super excited about steven coming on um i think he is going to be a great fit i think he's killing it in his uh in his youtube work with uh i mean talks about shortcuts home automation like all the stuff that we cover here and he really does have that spirit of MPU the way I think about it the way you think about it like we are we're here to teach and explain right it's it's different from a show that covers news or rumors and you know we'll dabble in that sometimes but this is a show that we we really strive to make content that is is useful at the end of the day and that someone can can walk away with uh an idea or a new part of their workflow or an app to try and um Stephen's right in that lane with us and so i'm super pleased that he's going to be uh taking over the reins uh for my part of the show and i think i think it's gonna be awesome and i look i really look forward to being a listener for years and years to come with you well i'm not going anywhere that's right i'll tell you that let's tell my wife i think uh mac power users is kind of like dr who and i am the tardis the tardis will never leave but the uh either way gang uh so we've got some big change come on uh please show us some grace as we figure this out please open your heart to steven as he comes on the show steven roblez and give him a chance um you know it's a it's a big deal uh mac powers is now a 17 year old podcast steven roblez himself was a little intimidated about the idea of him coming and doing this job. But he's going to be great. And let's everybody support him as he comes in. And I look forward to all the great stuff we have coming. For the next few episodes, because of this transition, the next episode of Mac Power Exorcist, we're going to be calling that Farewell Steven. It's our send-off to Steven Hackett. So if you have nice thoughts for Steven, please send them in so I can share them on the show. I'm going to be asking Steven some fun questions. It's going to be a fun send-off for our buddy Stephen Hackett. Show after that's going to be called Welcome, Stephen. And we're going to welcome in the new Stephen. And we'll be working towards that. Send me thoughts as well. We've got a feedback form at relay.fm.npu. You can also go to the forums at talk.mackpowerusers.com. But get them in quick, gang, because of the recording schedules. There's not a lot of time between the time this show hits the airwaves and we start recording some of these. So please get them in quick. And I look forward to getting them. Those of you that know my email, it's not that hard. If you want to send something that you don't want Stephen Hackett to see, of course, very nice things that you want to say. Yes, only nice things. Yeah, please send them to me. And this is not PR work. I'll just say, I just want to say so clearly, I love Stephen Hackett. He's one of my best friends and I wish him the best with this. I have no animosity at all about him leaving the show. I feel like he's doing what he needs to do. And all I want is for him to go and be massively successful with whatever he does. I think Steven feels the same way. I don't think he's making this up as a story that he's leaving because he can't stand me. I think we're all both very kind of sad to separate this. But at the same time, Steven is not going to the good place. you and i will still have phone calls and we'll still be talking but and you will still be an occasional guest on mac power yeah but but it is just a transition and these happen and we'll be good yeah yeah i mean our initial conversation on the phone is basically exactly what i just said on the show right like these are the reasons there's there's nothing secretive behind the scenes right um it's not that i'm secretly switching to linux for 2026 uh it's just uh this this is a transition that needs to take place. So, um, yeah, I love you too. Thank you so much for the opportunity seven years ago. Uh, I sort of chuckled to myself when you were talking about how Steven kind of felt the weight of the ask. And I was like, yeah, I understand that perfectly. Like, you know, uh, MPU, uh, you know, MPU means something, right? Like those three letters in our community. I mean, 17 years, like it is at this point, one of a very small handful of shows in our space with that sort of longevity. It's, it's really incredible. It's a testament to what you've done over the years. It's a testament you and Katie built together. It's a testament, I hope, to what you and I've done the last seven years. Um, and I like that Steven felt that, like that he felt like, Oh, this is a serious thing that I need to, to go think about and talk with my wife about and like make this decision sober minded so um yeah it's gonna it's gonna be it's gonna be hard personally but um i'm also very excited to see where y'all can take it yeah when i when i told steven when i offered the job to steven roblo's i i said look this is the part where i'm not going to be fair like i'm looking for a serious commitment you know mac power users basically takes about one of my five days every week between prep and recording post-production all the stuff we do to make an episode. It's about, you know, a good eight hours a week that we spend, I spend on the show. And, um, you know, I said, that's what I'm looking for. And, you know, like I said, go talk to your wife, you know, look at your schedule, make sure that you're willing to do that before you get on this train. Yeah. Anyway. So Steven, I'm sad, but you know, I'm kind of glad it's out there now, you know, and, uh, and I'm glad you can move on with, with your transition as well and uh and uh it's all a good gang but uh but give uh give the new guy a shot he's gonna come in in a couple weeks yeah he's awesome this episode of mac power users is brought to you by squarespace the all-in-one website platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online so whether you're starting something new or you're scaling something old, Squarespace gives you everything. You need to claim a domain name, showcase your offerings with a professional website, grow your brand, and get paid all in one place. I've been using Squarespace for years, and I keep using it because it's awesome. I don't really want to be a web developer. I'm not a great designer, but Squarespace gives me the tools I need to make something that looks great and works well. Take SEO, for instance. I'm by no means an SEO expert. That's a whole field unto itself. But Squarespace has built-in tools to make sure that websites built on their platform are optimized to be indexed with meta descriptions, an auto-generated sitemap, and more. So more people will find your site through search engine results. And you can keep track of those results and that traffic with built-in analytics. A lot of analytics packages are complicated and you're relying on an outside source. It's all built-in with Squarespace. It's easy to use. You can review traffic, learn where to focus your engagement, and you can even track revenue from bookings, invoices, or product sales. All this is built-in. All of this is designed to work together and that's what makes Squarespace so good. Head over to squarespace.com slash MPU to set up a free trial and when you're ready to launch use the offer code MPU to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain name. That's squarespace.com slash MPU and the offer code MPU to get 10% off your first purchase. Our thanks to Squarespace for their support of Mac Power Users and all of Relay. okay getting back to good old mac power users topics uh on feedback mitch wrote and i enjoyed the writing episode but was surprised there was barely a mention of obsidian david are you still using obsidian if so how and if not what are you using instead no plan uh i recently got back in obsidian after one year break where i did all my research note taking and writing and dev and think uh yeah so you know we didn't get into those i mentioned them i think a few times but they're so much more than just writing apps. And I guess that's why I didn't go so deep. We had a pretty packed outline for that one, but there's a lot of people that use Obsidian or NotePlan as a long form writing tool. And I think they're both excellent for it because they just write in plain text and you can keep all your research. In a lot of ways, like Scrivener, you can treat Obsidian or NotePlan as kind of like a one size fits all application where you've got your research and your text um the productivity field guide ironically the one i was talking about earlier in the case that started out as a bunch of obsidian markdown files and only at the very end did i move those into pages to format them for the epub so so yeah i've got them in obsidian uh to answer mitch's question the answer to am i using obsidian or no plan the answer is it's complicated i uh i mean obsidian has just been so stable for me over the years and i love all the plugins but there's a lot of my labs members that are all in with note plan yeah so i'm running a bunch of note plan data too and i have yet to find a reason not to love note plan either uh there's you know there's differences note plan doesn't have quite as much like outside plugin support but the developer of note plan uh and what as much as i've dealt with the guy he seems like he's super dedicated to this app he's keeps adding features like routinely like good features not junk features and um it feels to me like you really can't go wrong with either one of those mitch so you know pick the one that you choose one of the nice things about no plan is the native experience is much better on mobile like if you do a lot of time on ipad oh yeah i think no plan is is a better choice but boy if you like if you're in on obsidian it's hard to argue against that as well And they are all great apps for writing. Somebody also wrote in about notes. I didn't get the name. They said, why don't you just do all of it in Apple notes? You could do that. I mean, strangely, I do some of that because I use the Vision Pro for so much writing. And nobody wants to write a text editor for Vision Pro for whatever reason. Yeah, that's a rough market. Yeah, I mean, we've said this so many times over the years. There's just so many good options in so many categories. you know we also had questions about like craft or notion and you know we use notion for mpu like for all of our show outlines are in here um but the the block style editing that you have in notion and and you have in apps like craft add some friction right the notion at least is not using like the standard mac os mac os text editing tools it's kind of its own thing and that i find frustrating sometimes like it's it's great for you know show prep you can have like databases and all this stuff right but if i'm gonna write an article if i'm working on you know you're working on a field guide or like say i do another book one day like i would not choose something with a block style editor um because i just want sort of the most native most fluid experience and it's fine for some tasks it's just not perfect for all tasks and i think in our thoughts yeah and that's like another point on the no plan versus obsidian um ledger no plans a native app so like i've learned the mac native shortcuts to move cursors and lines and everything over the years and so inbred with me when i go into obsidian where they have done a pretty good job of mapping most of that over but not all of it and you know because it's not a native app sometimes you just don't get things that you expect. There's a lot of choices out there. Mitch, thanks for calling me on that. Appreciate it. Jennifer wrote in, she wrote me a nice email saying that I'm being too precious about AI writing. She's like, I'm not being fair to people. She's like, I get it that you like to write, but what if someone has English as a second language or someone who just doesn't consider themselves a writer and hates writing? Why not have AI do it for you? I wrote her back and And what I said is that's great. And I totally agree. And I shouldn't be so hard on AI writing because I think it is useful. But just make sure you take steps to preserve your voice. And what I don't want is someone to AI write me and it doesn't sound like them. Right. Yeah, for sure. And I think the thing that we always say is like, double check it. Edit it. Read through it. And these LLMs have come a long way in their ability to write coherently, but they still do goofy things, right? They still can sometimes go off the rails. And so always, you know, look back through it. But yeah, you know, to each their own, right? I think that Jennifer's examples are really good and real, right? I think in particular, like, you know, if you're working in a language, it's not your native language. like these things could be really useful. Um, and I actually asked my wife about that. So Mary actually went in college. She studied, um, she has an English degree with a focus in ESL education. And, um, she's done a lot of that in her career. And, and she was like, yeah, like, you know, obviously you want to double check it. And like, you know, but it, it compared to, you know, I'm just blindly translating with Google or something like, yeah, it probably is a step up from that. Yeah. You got to find where you're comfortable with it. Find where it works for you. I was thinking like my daughter, she's an art history teacher. And last year she had to teach art history to a blind student. Like, how do you do that? Right. And I helped her write a prompt that would write like, you know, write 5,000 words about the Mona Lisa, you know, and, and we wrote the prompt in the way where the AI knew that it was to be read by a blind person. So it wasn't as much about the historical relevance of it, but just like literally, what does it look like? And she has to teach, I think something like 183 art pieces a year, because that's what's on the AP test. And she could not, my daughter could not have written those essays for 183 pieces of art for one student. There just wasn't enough time in the day. So AI writing for her was able to help that student learn this artwork better. It's fascinating. And the other thing I told Jennifer is like, if you're going to write with AI, here's a workflow I'd recommend you try. First of all, use dictation or text. I like dictation because it's really good now. But don't just say, make me a letter to the homeowners association, you know, about this thing. Instead, say some specific points you want to make, you know, write to the homeowners association, tell them that like, I did paint the house and I have, well, you know, like give it some specific language, you know, that you want to use in the letter. And then also say, you know, I want you to write it for me, but I want you to preserve of my voice. And usually that's enough for it to understand that the things you said are going to end up in the letter. It's not going to be just some random letter. So then it sounds more like you at least. So I think there's some ways to do this and we shouldn't be so precious. I get it. So a little bit about keyboard maestro. We did an episode on that recently and Lily asked, any chance keyboard maestro will go to the iPhone and iPad? yeah i was kind of a jerk i wrote her back one word i said nope yeah and you know that is really a bummer but it is as far especially as ipad os has come right we've got multitasking and background processing and all this stuff there is no there's no paradigm in ios or ipad os for an app like keyboard maestro that's running all the time that you can interact with all the time shortcuts is i guess the closest but it's definitely not the same it's a bummer well i mean the underlying the original sin of i keep saying that i should stop saying original sin but the uh but the problem is when they made the iphone os they didn't put apple events in yeah that was a choice i mean they could have put apple events in apple events are the little um system connectors to actual actions on your computer. It's what drives AppleScript. It's what allows you to do so much automation on your Mac. And because that system doesn't exist, and I don't know, maybe they're in a hurry, or maybe they just didn't want to do it. They never put that in. They're never going to be able to add it at this point, in my opinion. They have no interest in adding it. So you don't have a lot of the underlying gears and levers that Keyboard Maestro has on the Mac to do so much of the stuff it does so yeah it's never going to happen yeah which which leads to the next question john said should i learn shortcuts or keyboard maestro where do you draw the lines and i get it there's a lot of people out there that are listening to us saying oh i would like to do more automation but they don't know which which boat to jump on yeah um uh steven you want to go first on this one i mean i think uh sort of the ground level question is what platform do you do you need this automation to work on right if you're an ipad only user then like well the answer the question is answered for you for me like i have some stuff in shortcuts but i tend to move towards keyboard maestro or automator or apple script because the mac is my tool right my iphone ipad are much uh lesser tools sort of in in my work so i think that's a big one i think the other thing you need to look at uh is the sort of the integration that whatever tool has with the tools that you're using right so something like shortcuts for instance may have access to a lot of things in first party apple apps that maybe aren't exposed to something like keyboard maestro or better touch tool right drop in any automation tool you want into that sentence um so i think it's platform and i think it's the apps you want to interact with or sort of the two big gates you got to deal with yeah i would um add on to that that i think generally you should probably start with shortcuts because it's an easier on-ramp yes and anything you learn in building shortcuts you can carry into keyboard maestro like once you kind of learn how to make a shortcut keyboard maestro works the same but a little more powerful and if you hit something where you hit a wall with shortcuts and you're willing to do it on your mac you can probably do it with keyboard maestro yeah uh we had several questions about uh your conflict palettes uh the first one cracked me up was how big are they they're big they're big i mean sometimes i run out of vertical space on my screen and what screen are you sitting in front of an apple pro display that's like two feet of conflict balance uh hear me out hear me out okay so the the what i do and as i explain the show in fact we even impressed the good doctor dr drang um the um what what you do with conflict palates is it's a way to make it easier to remember how to trigger because you're going to make all these actions and keep on the show so i've got some key ones for me they all are connected to control option command a couple of them are the hyper key but i generally try to keep them on those three and then i hit one letter with it so p is personal m is max barkey n is notion s is setups i've only got like about seven or eight of them there's not that many but once you once you hit it then it just really hits the max barkey is the one that blasts through the like the vertical length of the screen yeah but they're all like subcategories as i explained that show, as soon as you hit the first letter of your thing, it immediately shrinks down. Like, I have six of them related to block, you know, get me to the dashboard, draft a new post, you know, go to add this to the OmniFocus list. Yeah, I've got a bunch of them, but they all start with blog and a dash. So if I just type B, and then like, if I want to go to the dashboard, I go B, and then it shrinks down to six. And then I hit D, and it goes to the dashboard and closes. So when you first open it, it can be huge. But so long as you know the first letter of the thing you're searching for very quickly, it's going to get smaller. And sometimes I get bloat in it because I've been doing it for so long. I have to go through and kind of clean them out. But it's very easy. Like if I want to go to the banking website, I go option control command P, which opens up a pallet. Then I hit B and then S for site. And it like puts me exactly on the page I need to do banking. So there's just like a lot of things I do with it this way. And it allows you to make a ton of scripts in Keyboard Maestro that you don't need to remember the keyboard shortcuts for. This is actually all from an accident, honestly. When I was building the Keyboard Maestro Field Guide, I was like, you know, as you do when you make a course, you're like just digging on all the features. And I'm not sure that Peter really intended people to use the conflict palette as a primary navigation palette right it's there to catch things like if you accidentally assign a macro to or a shortcut to more than one macro right yeah yeah so i'm not sure i'm doing it right but i'm doing it right yeah so if you want to you know really automate your your machine pick a few categories you could instead of max sparking maybe use w for work and it really is fast. I'll tell you, it's crazy how fast I can set up for recording a show or getting to my research or whatever I'm doing through those pallets. I think it's, I think one thing that when you're looking at a new, a new tool like this, like that may sound really overwhelming to somebody, but I really think whatever tool you settle on or system you settle on, right. It becomes memory in your fingers and in your hands, right like you you can see the conflict palette but my guess is the ones that use the most often like you're moving as fast as the apple lets you right because it's it is a pathway that's been formed and um yeah i do i do kind of find it funny uh because if you read the documentation on the conflict palettes in the keyboard maestro wiki which is just fantastic like keyboard maestro has some of the best documentation of any app that we talk about i think but it's yeah it's like oh in case you accidentally did this you know it's like well yeah you can also use it as a feature right which is which is cool well there's a whole palette system that you can design palettes but because of the conflict navigation where you just type a letter this the conflict palette is actually faster than using the main system for this and to answer your question i almost never read the conflict palette i mean i just know that my screen that a little vertical window opens up my screen and disappears, but my fingers know where to go to do my work. You know, it just happens. Exactly. Uh, Brian wrote in, uh, how long did it take Steven to transition all snippets to keyboard maestro? Brian is not the only person that wrote this question. I think a lot of people are curious about, uh, switching over to keyboard maestro for snippets. So give us some, uh, some measurements here, Steven. Yeah. So, so I have, about a hundred let's call it 75 snippet expansion macros I was a huge user of TextExpander, a huge user of it in Keyboard Maestro it took several hours, I sort of just you know, kind of chipped away at it over the course of about a week, and I would do, because I have mine in groups, which I really recommend for any text expansion software that has groups can be very useful to find what you're looking for if you're going to edit something um but also like i would just do a group a day so like one day i did my 512 pixels group which is very similar to yours like it's like stuff blog related um i did like the relay admin stuff one day all the mac power user stuff one day i just kind of chipped away at it um and then i would disable that group in text expander once it was in keyboard maestro so even in that time period where i was in between everything still worked like i i used the same shortcuts uh to to expand and so my system i start with a semi-colon and then normally a leading letter so for instance um if you look at any mac power users episode there's that what i call the boilerplate where it's like you know it's like a link to the newsletter and the forums and the youtube channel um so that is semi-colon mp for Mac power users and then B for boilerplate. So it's all the Mac power users ones are kind of grouped together, semicolon MP. But it's just a piece by piece. You know, it's like any migration, right? So if you change, I don't know who would ever do this, but if you were to change task managers or notes apps or something, right? It's like, well, just put on a podcast and just kind of work your way through it. Yeah. And it allows you to filter them down. I think I've got like 500 text expander snippets. i killed dude i killed so many like there was someone here was like i don't even remember why i set this up right it's been in there for years yeah um so i really pared down yeah and i uh i could probably do that too but i i'm still using text expander i just i like the quick capture of it i like the um search function like where it can go and find the one i i just have enough on my plate right now that this has not been a thing that i've been thinking about but but i uh i think a lot of listeners are thinking about doing it. So thanks for sharing that. And you mentioned Dr. Drang, but we'll have a link in the show notes. In December, he talked about our Keyboard Maestro episode, and he talks a little bit about his exploration of the conflict palette and what he's doing in Keyboard Maestro. And he's using Typenator, which is yet another text expansion tool, which I looked at and it great Type it for me is another one So he compares some of the stuff As always it a great blog post So people should go check that out Yeah well his story was interesting because he did move everything to Keyboard Maestro But ultimately, because of some of the conveniences of a dedicated app, quick capture and creation, he went back, and in his case, he went back to Type Inator. So yeah, it makes sense. But I think there's a lot of options there. There's really something to be said for having one less app on your Mac, right? You know, if this can work for you. And the other thing I like about what you're doing that is kind of on the back of my mind is I could do more because now I've got the whole power of keyboard maestro behind me. When I trigger a snippet, I could have it, you know, do an email search or whatever, you know, I mean, there's certain snippets I think that would actually pair nicely with further action. Yeah. And that's something that I would like to explore at some point. Yeah. And it's funny. I use the semicolon as my leading indicator or my leading character because Drang wrote about it like 11 years ago. Before this, mine was kind of all over the place. You know, sometimes I would like double up the first letter and then I'm going to put this link in the blog post and it's going to it's going to make him full old. I'm sorry. That's not my intention. but when he wrote this post in 2015 i was like oh that's a great that's a great starting uh character i think maybe at some point i think he was talking about using something else because on the ios and ipad os keyboard semicolon is like hard to get to but honestly like i i have a handful of text expansions in the built-in apple system that i want available on my iphone or ipad but again the mac is where i do my work almost all these are work related so the semicolon still works fine for me but um yeah just right there one tip i i need to verify again because it's been a few years since i did it but if you take a um a text with carriage returns in it and you like in text edit and you copy and paste it into the fill field of the the native text expansion it will insert them you can't do it on ios or ipad os at least the last time i tried has to be on a mac but you can actually put a carriage return based text expansion into the native system with copy and paste into the field um so if you're out there and you don't want to use any of these and you just want to use the native one there's a little bit of extra power there yeah uh daryl wrote in about ejecting drives yes um daryl wrote it because we're speaking about this maybe on the previous feedback i don't know where we're talking about this but um ejection drives always comes up on mac power it does it does um and daryl's like oh i use alfred to do this i've been an alfred user for i don't know 150 years and i was like oh this is a feature that I actually wasn't using in Alfred, but I am now. So there are several options you can enable in the Alfred preferences. You can just type eject, and then you have options for what Alfred will tell the system to eject. So either removable media, things like USB drives, Thunderbolt drives. I almost said CDs, but I'm stuck in 2015 with Drang, I guess. Locally mounted volumes. So those are things like your NAS or another Max, you know, drive that maybe you have mounted or mounts and slash volumes, which is basically everything. And so that's what I have. That's I set mine to mounts. And so if I'm going to unplug my MacBook Pro from my desk and take it with me, I can invoke Alfred, type eject. Everything gets ejected. And because it's the system ejecting, right? Alfred doesn't have the right to do this. It's telling the system to do it. Yeah, sending a terminal command. Right. If one of those drives is in use, you'll get the macOS warning of like, hey, this drive is in use. You should deal with that. Which I think that message could be more useful on macOS's part. But this is great and it is fast. Like if they're not in use, I mean, they drop off. Because I routinely have three volumes mounted. I have my time machine drive and I have two volumes for my NAS mounted. Basically, they mount automatically. and um you know i'd need to eject those before i walk away with my laptop so this is a great tip from daryl and this is what i'm doing now it's it's been it's been awesome yeah you know every time alfred comes up people write in to say well how come you're not giving more love to raycast and i i have mapped raycast to my control space key but like the problems like this alfred always has a solution for and that's what i need honestly the um the raycast solves a lot of problems that i don't feel like the raycast ai stuff i feel like i want to address ai in a different place um but uh i i'm still an alfred fan and i know me saying that now i'm going to get even more email about raycast i mean it's like it's like text editors right like there's these all have different tools like i think raycast is super interesting yeah me too but alfred is the one that does more of what i want and like when we talked about alfred a couple of years ago like the ability to build your own custom workflows in Alfred is huge for me. Cause I mean, I use Alfred to search all sorts of stuff on the web just with a couple of, you know, a couple of keystrokes. And so ever do, did you ever install the Alfred link cleaner workflow? Uh, yes. Where you, is that the one where it like gets rid of all the excess stuff at the end of a URL? Yes. Yes. Game changer. If you're a blogger. So yeah, Alfred go, go eject those drives safely. This episode of the Mac Power Users is brought to you by Ecamm. Go to ecamm.com slash Mac Power Users for a powerful live streaming platform on the Mac. If you're a Mac user who creates video or podcasts, you need Ecamm. Ecamm Live is the all-in-one studio built exclusively for Mac, so it looks, feels, and performs like a native Pro app should. Whether you're live streaming, recording a podcast, or producing training videos, Ecamm gives you broadcast-level control with drag-and-drop simplicity. Switch cameras, share your screen, cue overlays, and control audio, all without ever leaving your Mac. 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And if you're into automation, Ecamm works beautifully with tools and apps like Stream Deck and Loopback, as well as many Mac tools you already know and love. That's because this is a native Mac app and you get all of those benefits through the whole process. You can upgrade to Pro and unlock Ecamm for Zoom, letting you feed your polished setups straight into Zoom meetings or webinars, share Zoom comments on screen, and even capture each participant's audio and video separately for easy post-production work. Don't wait any longer. Go check it out now. To get 15% off, go to ecamm.com slash MacPowerUsers and use the code MPU15. That's 15% off at ecamm.com slash MacPowerUsers with code MPU15. And our thanks to Ecamm for all of their support of the Mac Power Users and Relay. Okay, we got a question from Will about what LLM tools that we would recommend. And this is a bit, I think, actually, this is a much more complicated question than it seems. but do you want to start us off first yeah i mean this is first of all i'd say this is a question that becomes stale or this answer becomes stale like a day after we publish the episode because these things are always changing um i initially started exploring ai extensively with chat gpt as everybody else i can tell you though i have kind of moved on i find claude to be the best for me. And it feels most natural to me the way the discussion goes with a chatbot. When I have worked with it, it always seems to be kind of leaning towards the stuff I wanted to do. My whole take, I mean, and this is, I've said this before on the show, but I think we should be looking at AI to do busy work for us, not to do creative work for us. And I feel like the Claude business model makes a lot of sense in that way like clog code and now they have clog co-work uh which allows you to do things like rename files and like do stuff that would take time that you don't really want to do and then giving yourself more time to go do something fun you know it's like the uh there's like an old story about ai it's like i'm so glad ai can do art now so i can have more time to do my laundry you know that is that's not what you want you wanted to do the laundry so you can do art so I feel like Claude is like on that wavelength the business model makes sense to me I mean the company I mean they're all chasing general intelligence but I feel like Claude of all of them is trying to come up with good business and personal uses that that do the donkey work type stuff that I'm interested in so Claude is my main one at this point Gemini is in second place for me Google has done very good at catching up with ChatGPT their their art model is great I don't really generate much artwork with it but like i i gave it a picture of my dad and his brother taken in like 1930 and it was a terrible picture you know like one of those old pictures that is overexposed very yellow like it's almost unusable picture and i gave it to what's it called nano rhyme what they call it uh nano banana yeah nano banana it made a beautiful picture out of it It was like seeing him as a young man, like in that vivid picture, just like hits you in the feels and sharing it with my family members. So there's some stuff Gemini is doing that's really impressive. But my main AI of choice today is Claude. Yeah, I started with chat GPT for research and sort of as an alternative search engine. and when the news of Apple and Google getting together to have the Gemini models power Apple intelligence, like, oh, this is a good time to experiment with Gemini. So I've been using it for a couple of weeks. And it's really come a long way. And of course, it's building on not only the Google search index, but also if you have Gmail and other things, it knows things about you, right? And you can tell it to use those other data sources within Gemini. I will say the thing that I have missed about it, I was doing some stuff in Terminal recently. I was really kind of banging my head against the wall to get these commands to work. And ChatGPT, it can integrate with a select number of Mac apps, right? Because it is itself a Mac app and it has that ability. And that was really useful. And Gemini is more or less constrained to the browser. And for me in Safari, it just means a tab in the browser, right? I would think that Gemini would be more useful to some people if it had that sort of integration with other apps. Yeah. And I think Claude in particular, like everyone I've talked to or everything I've heard about Claude code has been impressive where you can use Claude as like a junior programmer or a programming partner in your development work. And I could see a world where that, like I think these tools will become, some of these tools at least will become more specialized. I really think Claude could move that direction that they really could be like, we're going to be the AI company for development, for developers, or at least in those circles, that's the one everybody gravitates towards. So I just hear that more and more from friends in software development, on podcasts, reading articles. And I think it's very interesting that they've gone that direction a bit harder than some of the others. Yeah. I would add, Will also asked, which one is best for troubleshooting Apple hardware? And Gemini, I think, would be the answer. Google, they indexed the web before there was AI. And Gemini does a good job of that. uh will also confirmed he thought it was gemini was the best for him from troubleshooting up hardware uh another point on this is i didn't mention at all local ai i think that's my current kind of blind spot i'm working on it though we're gonna have content later this year on mac power users about local ai it's getting good enough and uh you know right now there's a lot going on i'm kind of waiting for apple to drop some shoes on on siri but you know before the end of the year I think we're going to have a much clearer idea of good workflows for AI. And it's very much wild west right now. I recommend people don't like go out and do the latest thing. The, like the MCPs, there's a bunch of model context protocols to connect apps on your Mac. I'm doing some of it as a canary in a coal mine, not as something I'd recommend people do. Some of it's unstable. Some of it's insecure. As we record this, there's Claude Bot, which just got turned into Molt Bot, which is people buying a Mac mini and running like a separate AI, like instance on a separate computer, which again has a ton of security implications, but it's interesting. So there's just a lot going on and this is very much evolving. For sure. And we'll have an article by our friend Federico Vatici at Mac stories about Claude bought now a molt bot. They had to change their name. it's the lobster one that um i don't know about you but like on social media people are like freaking out about getting a cheap mac mini to play with this on um but yeah it does it does feel like that the tide or they're we're finally turning the corner for this stuff to be local in a way that's i think more useful yeah and the the mac mini for that makes sense because you're giving it root access you don't want to run this on your native computer it's kind of like isolating it but But then it could be three months or three years from now where everybody's laughing, saying, why did you remember when you went and bought a computer to do this? And now it's all native and it's not a, you know, I just feel like this is moving really fast. Okay. Listener Gene wrote in about sign in with Apple. They wrote, you guys said it is not only a safe, but a good option. At that time, we were talking about it on a previous episode. that time i maybe only had two sites using sign in with apple um i decided to check how many apps i have signed in with apple uh now and they're up to 20 which is pretty great that's how my usage has been too it's gone way up um now i always look for sign in with apple to click on um without going through the long process i used to have to go through back in the day i actually find it annoying when a site or app doesn't support it there's usually a sign in with facebook or google too. But I basically Gene doesn't want to use those, which I understand. So yeah, this led to a question for me is like, well, how actually do you see what you are signing in with Apple? And of course, you can do that through the Apple account slash Apple ID system. On the iPhone, iPad, it's in the settings app, there's a sign in with Apple section. And you can see everything that you are using, sign in with Apple, which is awesome. You can also do it on the web at account.apple.com. But you can also manage this in a few other places. The passwords app that Apple ships has a tool where you can stop using sign in with Apple and migrate it over to a username and password. And then our friends at 1Password also have support for this where you can see logins. So if you go to log into a website and you have told one password, oh, I used a sign-in provider here, it will then offer that to you as a way to remind you that you don't actually have a username and password for this. You're using another type of credential. So it really has gotten to a place where this is really seamless. I, like Gene, use it a lot more than I used to. And it's great because it ties in with the Apple account system. So it's going to want Touch ID or Face ID. And of course, it has the great feature to hide your email address. And so basically the developer or the website or whoever's on the other end just gets a mumbo jumbo iCloud email account. And then if that email address gets sold or they sending you junk mail and you can subscribe you basically just turn that email account off in your iCloud email and then you never hear from them again It very well thought through and you see it more and more i feel like i see it in in a lot of new apps now how often do you give them your actual email versus the the generated email i generally if i was signing an apple i will usually give them a fake email and then i can go in there and turn it off which i don't think i've ever actually had to do but it's nice to have the option yeah i feel like you know prove otherwise Yeah. Ed wrote in, I wanted to follow up on your recent episode on focus modes. Not sure if I remember you covering this scenario, but one thing that took me a bit to find is wrangling notifications on shortcuts that run. They constantly put a notification on my lock screen or alert when run and ends up cluttering noise made that's hard to find the actual notification I was interested in. So yeah, shortcuts when it runs automatically by default gives you a notification. that's a security thing that apple had um there was a time when apple would not let you have them run automatically at all and when they finally agreed to do it they added a little flag for each shortcut called notify when run and that's turned on by default yeah i always turn it off i mean because it is so annoying to see these things ed ed discovered and he was just pointing out yeah go into the individual shortcuts and you can do you know and you know if he turns them all off he's less likely to click the clear all button and miss something he needs but yeah when you're doing automation with shortcuts i feel like the part of the build process for me is to always go in and turn that off i mean if i made it i don't need to be reminded that it's running yeah i agree that's how i operate too i see why it's the the default yeah um i i would like if i could make a suggestion to the shortcuts team i know you're all listening um i would like that to be a top level setting in shortcuts of like hey any new ones i create to turn the notification off i don't think i'm going to get that yeah but uh because sometimes i forget right and then like wait why is this why is this bugging me um but uh i i am glad there is an option for that if i remember correctly there used to not be i think that got added at some point yeah i think it was like over a couple years yeah that wasn't like you were originally always getting them and my guess is the shortcut team doesn't want to send you notifications either probably somebody there's somebody who does a security review of all this stuff who probably said no you have to do this you know and uh that's that but yeah that's a good uh that's a good good question good good scenario i think a lot of people find themselves in all right we got some speed run questions you want to go through them yes let's see how good we are at answering questions quickly uh raj asks how do you decide when a workflow is quote good enough versus when uh to keep refining it uh when i don't think about it anymore you know same you know just or you know when it breaks occasionally then it's not good enough anymore uh what other element on that would be sometimes it works so good that i want it to do something more like i'm like oh this is great now now do this yeah yeah when i stop thinking about it when I go to use it, right, it's just completely ingrained, then I feel pretty good about that when it's just part of the background of what I'm doing. All right. Emily says, what's your strategy for keeping up with app updates without getting distracted by every new feature? I generally rely on coverage of apps to sort of know, like if an app I'm using or I'm interested in has a big update coming. But also I am in the position, I think you are too, David, I just get a bunch of press releases about apps all the time. So sometimes I know in advance, this is a little bit weird because most apps will auto update through the app store. That's how most people do that. A lot of developers write really bad app store release notes. So even if there is something you knew and you knew to look for it, they may not tell you. So I tend to look elsewhere. Yeah. Steve and I are in a unique position where we see the news of all this stuff coming across. But I'll tell you that the ones I make note of are like one in 20. Like a lot of my apps get updates and I see that they did. I don't care. But when I see that they did something really interesting, then I'll make a point of going and learning the new feature, maybe even covering it. Yeah. And that's a very small hit rate. For sure. uh marcus asks what's one mac app that you've recently stopped using and why i realized recently i have stopped using all photo um modification apps except pixelmater pro okay just slowly over the last couple years i've got so good at pixelmater pro that you know i love acorn gus mueller and some of these other folks making great apps i don't even look at them anymore i just do it in pixelmater pro Mm-hmm. For me, it is Bartender, which we've talked about. They've had some sort of ups and downs over the last couple of years. But I decided to take a tour of some of the other apps in this space, and I settled on one called Ice. It is currently I'm running the dev beta because they've had some issues on Tahoe. But basically, it's a rebuilt version of Bartender that's free and open source. The reason I like it over something like vanilla, which is really clean, but, uh, ice can do that secondary menu bar and on a laptop with a notch, uh, that's really the whole goal, right? It's like if I, if I need these other things, then I want them lower. So they, they clear the notch. Um, I don't run it when I'm at my desk on my display. Uh, but if I'm on the laptop, I launch it and it's, uh, it's been great. Yeah. I need to like, look at this seriously. Bartender just released version six like so they've got a new version and you know to the question earlier this is the kind of thing that i kind of want to go look into i want to see you know what are we getting with bartender six um it's part of setup i believe so i i don't you know i get it as part of my setup subscription um so i just want to see what's going on you know and uh and i actually need to look at both of these i definitely am not on the you know let's all hate bartender bandwagon that seemed like existed for a little while when they sold the, sold the app to a new person. They didn't do a great job of the transition, but I don't think there was any bad faith there. I think they're, they're good people that want to make a good app. So I have an open mind to bartender and I see they have a new version. So I'm going to be checking that out, but, but yeah, that's interesting. Well, I, I didn't, I didn't do a good job of making that a quick answer to that. You know, I didn't think we were going to be great at it, but I thought I'd try it. Yeah. oh man okay what about some stuff we're playing with okay so we've been dancing around this but claude released a new feature called co-work and we've now i've done a labs video on it we had a labs meetup on it um this is really impressive like you know the the thing where you want to rename files um something i've been chasing on mac power users for 17 years so i gave claude co-work access to a folder just one folder that i had a bunch of scans and that i had scanned with greg pierce's simple scan app so they all had just the name scan and date and i said claude um go in and read the first page of each pdf find the actual date of the document not the date it was scanned but the date of the document and find out what the what the document's about and rename it with the date of the document and the subject of the document. And it went through and renamed like 30 files and it had the actual date from inside the document and the name of the document. Now it's very beta now and not every, you have to have a paid account to get access to it. And they're still, I think they even call it beta in their releases very early days, but this is super powerful. Just think about it. One of my labs members pointed it at a folder of years of documents and it went through and renamed them all. So this is, this is really powerful. The other thing cowork can do, and it can work with a local store of text files very easily. Like the document thing, you've got to like be careful because it runs out of memory. You've got to like, say just do one at a time and you've really got to polish it up. But like I said, in a few months, this is going to be easy. But the local text file thing is I pointed it at both my Obsidian and no plan vaults. And it was just so nice. I've got a text file that's full of ideas for future labs videos. I've been building it for a couple of years, so it's huge. And I said, go through that file and nominate 20 entries, because there's probably like 200 entries in it. Nominate 20 entries for deletion and tell me why. And it found a bunch like that were about old versions of the OS or apps that, you know, aren't even really active now, like things I'd written down two years ago that would make no sense to make a video on that. I said, okay, go ahead and delete those. So it deleted those for me. And then I did that a couple of times. I ended up eliminating like 50 items from the list. And then I said, okay, go through and fix any typos in the list. Because when I write these things down, you know, I'm just typing fast, the capitalization's weird or whatever. And I said, okay, do you want them in title case? I said, yes, please put them in title case. Put the link on a separate line. It went through and reorient. I said, okay, now sort them by subject matter. And it went through and it said, okay, here's all the things about AI that you may want to cover. Here's all the things about iPhone. Here's all the things. It went through and categorized them for me. I said, okay, now pick five that you think I should do right away. And like two of them were useful. The other two weren't right away. It was wrong about them. But it was doing this on a text file on my device the whole time. So the file kept updating to match what I was asking it to do. And that's the kind of personal assistant stuff that I want from AI. And it exists now in Cloud with Cloud Cowork. And what Cloud Cowork really is, is just a jumped up version of Cloud Code. You know, what they realized is people were using Cloud Code to write terminal, you know, routines to go through and do stuff like this. And by making it called co-work, they kind of simplified it for humans that are not programmers. Yeah. And in the background, it's still doing all the terminal stuff, but you're talking to it just kind of in generic terms. But I'm hearing from so many labs members that are jumping on this and making like real progress in getting busy work done for them. And, you know, it's kind of crazy to think about. Give it a folder full of 300 documents and just walk away from your computer and they're all renamed for you. That's a big deal. Yeah. super cool um they call it a research preview which is like somehow even less or more beta than beta yeah um yeah this is kind of what i was referring to with chat gpt versus gemini right gemini is a web tool basically and uh claude co-work is even beyond i think what chat gpt can do in terms of like it is actually working with your local files in a way that is you know you're not uploading and downloading things, right? If you, if you have a question about a PDF or an image, you have to upload it to these other tools. So yeah, it's, it's all, it's very interesting how these, these companies continue to develop different things. And I've heard like Claude code, I've heard only basically good things about Claude co-work for those people using it. So super interesting. And there's risks to this, right? You're giving it right access to your drive. What if it had gone through and just deleted all my ideas? yeah you know you know and of course i've got time machine backups and i would be able to recover it but but i do think that um obsidian and note plan users should really pay attention to this because working with text files is like the lowest level lift you can do with this it's very easy whereas if you're working with like an apple notes database i think there's a much higher risk that it's going to break yeah it's uh it's really cool though and it's continuing to evolve i mean This is as bad as it's ever going to be. Exactly. So for me, on a recent episode, you spoke about the use case of two task apps, right? Like maybe you're using OmniFocus for work and reminders for personal and family stuff. I've never done that successfully. I've tried it a couple of times over the years. But I was like, well, maybe this is the time. So I have been using Things for all my cross-forward work for about three weeks now. Boy, Things is just as beautiful as I remember. Things is one of those apps that I check out every few years. My fundamental problem with Things has never changed. It's that I think their repeating task system is bonkers the way you set it up. and they don't have a, in my mind, like they basically work on like start dates much more than like deadline dates. And that's kind of the backwards of the way that I personally work. Um, so it's not a great fit for everything I do, but so far it's, it's been enough for my tasks over at Crossford. I don't have a ton of repeating stuff there, unlike Relay or, and unlike my podcast, or like basically everything happens on a weekly or monthly cycle. Um, so it's great. It's, it's beautiful. Uh, the sync is really solid. Um, I remember years and years and years ago when they built their own sync system, people were like, what are you doing? Um, it's been great. Um, I dumped a bunch of stuff into it on the Mac and then I installed it on my phone and opened it and signed in and I was like, it was all there. And, um, so it's been, it's been interesting to have things across to task managers. I'm not sure it's going to stick not because of things but that still is a weird concept to me like yeah but i'm gonna give i'm giving it a shot because there are upsides to it right like relay and podcast stuff is still in in reminders with everything else but like it means that if i'm not working on with david uh smith that day or you know it's like well i can just close this and not see any of it, which is compelling. Um, or a lot of, because cross forward is very asynchronous work. Sometimes I got things hanging out in there that I'm waiting for somebody else. Like it's just still on my list. And that would be, you know, it kind of was junking up reminders with some other things. Um, and so I'm going to keep experimenting with this. Um, it is a very interesting concept to me and really it's forced upon a lot of people, right? Like if If you work for an organization that uses 365 and you need a to-do list, well, you're using Outlook or Microsoft To-Do, which I think is basically like the Outlook task system kind of in a standalone app. A lot of companies won't let you put company to-do list things in your own apps, right, by policy or by actual technology limitations. and so a lot of people do live in this world where they have things divided up a bit more you're looking at more than one place right to get an overview of your day or your week which is a little bit challenging but um i'm going to keep experimenting with it keep pushing it and see where it ends up you know the app like you know you're saying things is kind of almost an aspirational app for you you want to use it because it's so great um an app for that like that for me is trello i just think trello is so cool every time i play with it there's a part of me that just wants to dump everything into trello boards and just run everything off those boards yeah and uh and i know that you can kind of have a kombon feature in reminders i know you know omni focus has got one coming but the trello is just like built for that there's part of me that just wants to just say heck with it and put everything in there but then also like as i see the rapid escalation with these kind of ai assistant tools i just think that all this stuff is up in the air right now yeah i think so too um and there's a good use case for something like trello right i mean even todoist has that sort of and reminders they've sort of done some of that kanban view stuff i don't think anyone does it as good as trello and trello is great i really use it like for big projects like for the saint jude campaign every year i've got one because that thing has a million moving parts. And some of those things become actual tasks, but I'm also using it to sort of keep up with other people's parts of the project. You may find that useful with the work you're doing now with David because you're going to be managing people and that would be a good tool for it. Yeah, I'm actually building some of that stuff actually in Notion for CrossFord. And it's been really interesting to really push it Because for MPU, we've got a big database of all of our episodes. We have databases for archives and sponsors. It's all these sort of pieces of data, but we don't do a lot of cross-pollination between them. So I'm really playing with that for the first time in Notion now. And it's got some really cool tricks up its sleeve, but you've got to kind of figure it out. Talking about learning curve in Keyboard Maestro, Notion I think also has a learning curve that some people find. A bit tricky. All right. Well, there we go. Another feedback episode from the Mac power users. For additional feedback and membership, go to relay.fm slash MPU. We'd love to have you join as a more power users member. As Steven said, that's a big way we keep the lights on here. So we really do appreciate it. Thanks also to our sponsor, Squarespace and Ecamm. And for you more power users, stick around. We're going to be talking about the new folding iPhone. and otherwise we'll see you next time