Deebo & Joe - Part 1: Has NFL figured out Lamar Jackson + Steelers LEGEND Heath Miller joins!

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Find your community on PrizePix and with the new social feeds feature, you can share PrizePix with your friends and copy lineups with winners with a single click. Copy lineups you like or use them as inspiration for your own Pix. You can even follow PrizePix partners like us and play our fade art Pix with just one click. PrizePix is easy to play. Just download PrizePix app today and use the code D-BO Joe to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. That code is D-BO Joe to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. PrizePix, it's good to be right. ["D-BO Joe"] Welcome back to this episode of D-BO Joe. I'm your host James D-BO Harrison and I'm here with my co-host Joe Hayden. Make sure you like, subscribe and download where you get to show. How you doing today, Joe? Doing great, brother D-BO. Doing great back at the crib. Was in the land this weekend, had a little autograph signing and you know what? Somebody gave me this jersey and I thought it was only right that I rock it on the show today. You know, it just made sense. And I went backwards style with it, went Nelly, went 2000s Nelly with it. Going backwards, you know what I'm saying? With the Gators. So I got all my squads, I got the Browns, I got the Stillers, I got the Gators. You know what I'm saying? I'm just rapping. You just rapping, you just rap everything. Not anything, everything, not anything, everything. No, I'm just saying, I'm saying, you just, I ain't got nothing. I put blood, sweat and tears at. Yeah, yeah, I understand what you're saying, man. I understand what you're saying. Yeah, so I'm sitting a little light today, baby. The portion of God's got a hold of me, boy, right before we get jumped on here, boy. Yeah, bro. I haven't been sitting on the throne. You was calling Count down from the throne. Hey, I had to. Two minutes, I let y'all know I be there. Yeah, yeah, D-Boy, you gotta get to it. You a good coffee run through you? Bruh, I don't know what happened, bruh. I got through working out and it was like, yo, give me me free. And he was like, I gots to go. Listen, you know how you turn around, you don't know what it is. I'm like, what was that? I don't even know what I ate. See, there you go. You might be like... You know what I'm saying? I'm light though. I'm light though. Look like some pounds lighter. You know what I'm saying? Get more of that. Get more of that. You know what I'm saying? You got out your system. You got out your system. No question. No question. Look here people. We are going to have my guy, our guy, Heath Miller. About 30 minutes from now. What we're going to jump into right here real quick is I guess Yahoo Sports insider Charles Robinson. He warns that Mike McCarthy is stepping into an all bad situation at Pittsburgh. He said, I don't like the situation for McCarthy as in. We could argue whether or not it's worse, but with McCarthy's age, he's a win now, coaching hire. You're sitting... You're still sitting there starting. You're still sitting there staring at a quarterback problem. They're expected to win games. They're expected to get whatever gas they can out of this age and roster. We've expected... They're expected to somehow make the quarterback situation work with Aaron Rogers. It's all bad for Mike McCarthy. What do you think, bro? People talking. People talking. Honestly, he doesn't know what we got in Will Howard. I think Mike McCarthy is going to be... He developed quarterbacks basically. That's what he does. I think that if he believes in Will, then I'm rocking with him. I think that everybody's looking at the situation. It doesn't look good from the outside looking in. If you're another team, we don't have a legitimate quarterback. We don't have a franchise guy right now. If it looks like we're still trying to wait on A-Rod, then I can see why people are still saying this. Just speaking the same thing, Debo, that they've been saying about us, nothing's changed. A-Rod's still on our team. We have Will Howard and Mason Rudolph. Our situation does look pretty bad from the outside looking in. What do you think? I don't think it's being set up to fail. I wouldn't go that far. 100%, Mike McCarthy is a win now, higher. That's why they still just keep saying, we're not rebuilding. You look at it, Mike Tomlin with what, 19 years without having a losing season. So it was 500 or better. Right now, he has to do 500 or better. But they're saying it as if it's Super Bowl right now or it's bus. That's ridiculous. It hasn't been that though, Tom. Right. We haven't won a Super Bowl since 2009. And our last appearance was against the man that we hired, lost to in 2011. But the most concerning thing for the stillers was we went almost 10 years without a playoff win. And last win, 2016, we had nine seasons in between there. We made it to the playoffs six times and we lost every single game. That's what they're upset with. So like winning a Super Bowl, it's always the goal. That was upset. It's always the goal. But they aren't upset about that. They're upset that we could not win a playoff game. So the stillers are thinking, at least in my mind they're thinking, for this to be a successful year or a successful hire, they need to win a playoff game. And I think that's the biggest reason why the stillers are still sitting around waiting on Aaron Rogers because they're saying, OK, we're going to give Mike McCarthy the same setup that Tomlin had. And now we'll see if he can get better results. And then to them, that will justify their hiring and the belief or the fact that, like you said, we don't know what Will Howard can do. Aaron Rogers is going to give us a better chance at getting into the playoffs now. Yes. And with all the new hires that McCarthy has, the coaches, the staff, it's more experienced, either coaching or actually playing the game itself. Yeah. And the staff is just a better staff than what's there previously in the previous coaching staff. So you get better coaches, you get your players to play better because I'm teaching you better. But I'm saying, and we're not saying, and this is from Sanctu Debo, we're not, we weren't saying like Super Bowl or bus, we haven't won the Super Bowl in a while. So I'm looking at Mike McCarthy building a good team, like as many good players like quarterback is always going to be the thing that everybody sits and talks about. But what about our line? What about our running backs? What about our receivers? What about our defense? What about our corners? How good is the execution going to be at this full team? So with Mike McCarthy, I don't think like mediocrity. We don't have to be terrible. Will Howard doesn't have to be a pro bowl quarterback for the Steelers to win nine to 10 games. And if he's not in this thing too, if he's not good enough and we do have the 20th pick and we know the quarterbacks of position that we need, we can trade our first round pick and our second round pick, trade up like the way we did to go get Devon Bush. When we need a linebacker, they trade it up to 11 to go get a linebacker. If you think quarterback is a position that we need once we have this team, while Howard doesn't end up being a guy, then we can figure it out. But us still being good, us still being competitive. Mike McCarthy, you got a team with you. Let's see what the quarterback situation is looking like. But there's no reason why we should be getting blown out. We're still the Steelers. We still have great defense. We still have amazing players on the offensive side of the ball. Quarterback is the position where everybody's looking like, OK, A-Rod, Will, we don't know. So now Mike McCarthy got his staff in there. How's he going to run it? How is he going to do it with this team that we got? Then we can figure it out from there and move forward. So I'm never really in that big panic situation for the quarterback, because it is what it is. You got to build a team. Quarterback is a position that we need. We're waiting on A-Rod. We don't know what's going on with Will. Mike McCarthy is there. He's in the building. He's been talking highly on Will and he talked about A-Rod. So we know we are with that. The draft is still up. We're going to see what happens. You know what I'm saying? So I'm just to the point where everybody's going to keep talking about how bad the quarterback situation is. Because if you were the outside looking in, Will Howard and Mason Rudolph are the quarterbacks that are on the Pittsburgh Steelers team right now. So your situation doesn't look too good. If you don't sound like you don't have a franchise guy. So saying that, not a crazy statement. That's his biggest thing though, is that the Steelers don't have a young franchise quarterback. That's basically his number one issue. And when you look at it, it was nobody out there that was an automatic proven that was ready to come up to be signed. That we could just say, hey, here's the fill in. So why not sit there? And the draft did not have anything that was automatic for sure. So yes, I'm not here and say, all right, after you sit back, you look at it. You start fixing all the other areas, which Omar Khan is doing. Keep doing it. I'm saying, and yes, the only spot you have left is the quarterback. As we said before, when Ben was on Ben said it himself, like, yo, I was putting in like everything else was there. Like, and I think, and he said, I think that's, you know, how they should do it now. I was like, yes. It's when now. Worst case is he got to do 500 or better. Because anything below 500, the higher of Mike McCarthy by the Pittsburgh Steelers will be considered a fail. Because when we're saying, when we're saying to win now to Debo, I'm like, we have a good football team on the Arkansas side of the ball, defense side of the ball. We're going to see if the quarterback, if he's handing it off, we got good run game. He's not turning it over. We're not asking them to throw for 5,000 yards. You know what I'm saying? 22 touchdowns, 5,6 picks. Smooth. Like that'll be a good, good, that'll be solid form. So like when I accidentally reinvent the wheel, just going there, be consistent. The team around them is going to be able to help them because we actually getting good players. Yeah. Yeah. I think what Omar has did as far as, well, what the Steelers have done for Omar being able to actually do his title and GM was extremely beneficial for us this year in getting the positions that we need, the players we need to fill into the spots we need. And right now we got what 12 draft choices. What is it? Four or five in the top 100. So I mean, we have a chance to still fill in a lot more spots and, you know, get depth at other spots that, you know, we need help. I don't see it as a, you know, set up to fail. A bad situation. He's a coach that has a history of winning. Just elephant quarterback. Yeah, that just coached the hat before, you know, and we'll see. We'll see. It's on Mike. We'll see. Yes. It's on him. He's getting to do what he needs to do, put the people in place. He got he got all his coaches. He doesn't mean I did it. Man, to the equipment staff, he got everybody in there. I don't know. Like we'll see. So. Where we at? We got LeMau. LeMau, bro. I cannot say to do from the commander's last night. What is it? Charles? How you say that? What's up? That's my Charles. A mini who? Charles, a mini who. OK, let's go with that. And if you're a veteran, he says that I don't think the league has truly figured out Alan yet. Talking about jazz, Alan, with Lamar, he said, honestly, you bring a five man rush on him, collapse the pocket. He's drifting backwards. And unfortunately, he might make a play that isn't going to be to the best play for the that isn't going to be the best play for the Ravens. With the Josh, he's going to drift backwards, run around. And he goes and he's so hard to tackle. I don't know about that. Well, maybe for that. He's a large human being, hard to get down. He can make every throw, every throw from no matter where he's at. He's he has a strong his arm strength, his arm strength is unbelievable. I don't think Lamar has. I don't think Lamar has that big amount of arm strength like Josh does, that big amount. Like I said, I think. You figured out Lamar, I think you figured out Lamar. You think Lamar. A voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice voice And he's getting older as he's getting older. He's getting more soft tissue injuries and you're running the ball. But you're not training necessarily to deal with all that demand that comes in season from running that ball. You got to train in the offseason like you were running back and be ready to go out there and do what it is that, you know, he's he's doing weekend and week out, plus still be able to do what you need as a quarterback. So, you know, once you take away what makes him, you know, a special generational talent at quarterback, you're able. Like you said, if you're able to get the five man pressure and you don't have to blitz him all the time to get there, you make him have to be more of a traditional quarterback. And that diminishes that just diminishes his effectiveness, dude. Like causes, like you said, causes turnovers. And sometimes he may actually beat you with it. But I just don't see it happening on a consistent basis. When you look at the stillers with three and seven against him. The Mar is averaging about 174 yards in those games that, you know, they ended up losing his career average, 195, which is still low. And then in the wins, we look at the wins. Hundred and eighty yards rushing as a team. The Mar got eighty of that on an average. And then in the seven losses, he only got 54 yards rushing. So you take away the use of his legs, you increase your chances of winning. And that's basically what the stillers do, like, yo, if they're able to be like, yo, we're going to make him pass the ball and sit in the pocket, put pressure on him, make him uncomfortable. If they're able to do that, they win. So I just don't I don't I don't I don't see him being able, unless he figures out how to be more of a pocket presence and getting a ball out on time and two guys, you know, and with, you know, effective timing, his biggest thing is, you know, his legs. And you got to sit there and some guys either sit back and wait and see, you know, that run past option read stuff like that. That kills people. No, we're not going to wait. You right here. Soon as he do that, he lose the protection of a quarterback. Yeah, your job is to just smack him. Don't do nothing. That's how Coach LeBow used to do it. Hey, as soon as they start the RPO, smack the quarterback, your job is to smack the quarterback. I don't care. Nothing else. If you're unsure, hitting and guys that do that or teams that do that or are able to do that are effective at it. Then you put him into a situation where, you know, they got to pass the ball. And you have a better chance of winning the game. Where you get? I think both things are Lamar Jackson. I think he is a very, very talented. I think he can throw the ball too. I think when what my man was saying about Josh Island's arm strength being like so much bigger and he can make more throws, I don't see it that way. I understand what he's saying. If you Lamar Jackson's legs are so special that if you got to pick one, I rather him throw against me because he would chop up the defense to be able to run like a wide receiver if you people go past their lanes. So I would say when you're playing against them, if you're saying you figure them out, you know, I think you can still make throws. But if you're saying both what's worse, I rather him throw the ball against me than run the ball against me. So that's what you're saying. You have your great rush lanes and you're forcing him to throw the ball. I rather him be a passer against me than a runner. So I understand what he's saying there, but I think he can still make the throw. So he's not like saying, oh, Josh Island's Lamar Jackson. If you just make him throw, he can't win. He's saying, if you please take away his legs, because that will really kill you. He can still make the throws. But if you pick him best of both worlds, I rather have him in the pocket with my dudes in their rush lanes and have him make him throw the ball against me. I would say same thing to with Lamar, his weapons haven't really like he has a tight end, it was cool. And then we had Hollywood Brown. I mean, Andrew's amazing, Pro Bowl tight end, but he hasn't really had too many like number ones, a guy that you had outside that you could just give it to and throw the ball to like just one on one. He hasn't had a Jamar chase. He hasn't had a T Higgins. So for me, I hear what he's saying, but he's making sense because if it was on me, I would rather Lamar throw the ball than run. The big thing with Alan is, you know, he's saying he's hard to tackle all this other stuff. I'm not. Alan can make those throws and then Alan can go ahead and throw somebody else the ball to one of them. For sure. I mean, when time ain't right, the mark does the same thing. Don't nobody want to talk about that, though. I don't know why he turns to rock over like crazy in the playoffs, too. It was. But the last couple of times when it was looking at it, we had Andrews drop the ball. We've had people Lamar had Lamar Jackson wasn't the reason why they lost these games in the playoffs at that. I for sure it hasn't been his fault. I think his team has let him down in these in these last playoff runs. It hasn't been his bad. Do you think you think he has anything? He's one of those turnovers. I had anything to do with it. Brother, I mean, they they they didn't help. But at the end of the game, they had a chance to win. And then they would play like drop, drop the pass, fumbling the end zone, diving the end zone, like legitimate bang bangs that lose the playoff. You already get the emphasis on the last person to not make a play. Because I mean, all things happen in the game exactly, but you get to the fourth and now all everything happened. Now can we can we win or lose it? You know what I'm saying? The head coach got fired. Man got fired after what? 18 years? Yeah. I don't know. We'll see who I don't know. Who know what was going on there? Well, I'm so hot right now. Well, I see you. But this will happen. Did you see you? Listen, listen, bro, I told you I'm living on a budget, bro. So the heat, it got it got warm around here. So it take a minute for the air to, you know, to get going because. Old system, you know, old system. So when I got home, I turned the air on because it was 70, 75 degrees in here, bro. Then I got these lights shining on. That's crazy. You know what I'm saying? It's probably 80 in here right now. I'm up here. Yeah, you're sweating bullets, sweating bullets. But my man said, look, even in the demo, too, like Lamar, not to just Lamar, the field, bro, I'm so hot right now. Lucky I got no taco meat busted out, bro. What do you say now, bro? I was saying that even like Lamar last the one they just missed the field goal at the end of the game. Like all that. That's not that's not his bad. That's like three of them joints. That's three games. I mean, they could have won. He did everything he could have did. Oh. So I understand you said, but I will go with if you sit back and you strategize correctly. The thing is to make him have to pass the ball to beat you and don't let him escape and get extra yards of outside pocket. You know, rush lanes, contain rush lanes, keep them in there for sure. Because once he escapes, that's when you're going to really just mash your whole squad up. And that's if. If you can contain that's what I'm saying. But he's also getting older. He is going to go down a little bit. Just got to start. So you say, hell, just close to the end of last year, the whole last last part of the season. I'm like, yo, that's something where he would have normally got out on. Yeah, you know, yeah, I think he was it was a little he wasn't moving a little bit. A little a little stick slower. It was a little slower. Well, you got to stay. You got a little you got a little you feeling good though, D-Bo you straight. You got a little feeling great, baby. I just got through working out. That's what I'm seeing. I'm still running. Oh, OK. I'm from the workout to that's what it is to that's what I'm saying. Oh, yeah, let me know. You got that working. Woo. Oh, yeah, you're going to be. I had a head sitting high right now. But just say they was talking about how we ever like have ever figured out quarterbacks like they're talking about Lamar Jackson, have you got figured out? I think sometimes too, though, it's the offensive scheme. If the defense, if you you got them figured out, if you got them behind the sticks, if you got them playing, you know what I'm saying, behind the sticks, then there's nothing really they could do. So I feel like sometimes just depending on how the defense is playing. I think when you say figured out, though, it's like this person set of skills. We have figured out. I got you. OK. And so they're affecting it because we know what they do well and what they don't do well. It's it's a lot. It's a lot different than OK, we got you in a backed up situation. Man, if I get if I get, you know, Tom Brady in the third and 20, it's going to be fun. You know what I'm saying? So that's that's a little different than, you know, I figured him out or they figured him out. Maybe they figured him out to a certain extent. I really feel like we have as a, you know, stillers as a as a as a team, as a, you know, a staff, as far as how to approach and play him. It's just that, you know, I don't know what happened when we get into the playoffs. Things get it got real ugly. Yeah, I'm saying like it's the way is you said it's the five five rushes. Don't let him escape the pocket, because when he runs, that's the thing. We would rather have him pass them around and there's no disrespect because it's just legs are special. Yeah, if you can't get him to. Break from their actual programming of run, run, run, run pass and that that run pass option that is just that's just killing people. And it doesn't hurt to when you got King Henry, when you start really running the ball on people. That's once they start running it, it just it opens up, opens up the play action, open up everything. But again, you know, you know, they about to pass him the ball. So that's really one less person you got to cover in the past game. Go ahead, give run heavy on that run heavy with the mar and figure out everything goes from there. Yeah. Right. What's good, coach? Bro, you were sweating bullets. You got that good workout. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I'll be back. Whoo. This man D. But I'm a slave. Well, look, I must go ahead and shout out to Roy McElroy, that won the Masters. Shout out Roy. I thought he was going to lose it up to Scotty Scheffler. This is random again on a Scotty Scheffler is my favorite golfer right now. Down on Saturday by 12 strokes. Almost came back and won it. That was an unbelievable shot at the Roy for when this second gold jacket in the row. Not gold jacket, green jacket. Green jacket. Joe, I even I know that my bad. My bad. I was just the gold jacket got me. So I was thinking about Hall of Fame. Roy McElroy, back to back Masters. Roy McElroy is the air. Roy. No, Roy McElroy. Oh, I think I see. We might have somebody. All right, people. My good man, a dude. My good friend, Joe's. Yes, sir. Who he say he made foam ball. We go talk about. Oh, one man. See, dang it. Huh? Huh? You say? Right. My my. She's like, no. Look here. Look, ladies and gentlemen, he was drafted in 2005. First round pick for the Pittsburgh stillers. Yes, he was. Time Pro Bowler, two time Super Bowl champion stillers. Hall of Honor inductee, the best tight end in stillers history. One of the most complete tight ends of his era. Please welcome. He is. What's up, fellas? How we doing today? Doing good, brother. He's welcome. Welcome. How you doing, baby? I'm doing great. I'm doing great. Hey, you guys are doing great on the show. I like you. Appreciate it. You guys are doing a great job. Appreciate what you got behind you, man. Look like you got two trees and you got to blur it out real good. Yeah, I got a mess back there. So it's all blurred out. I did the best I could on short notice. No, I feel it, brother. It looks perfect. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Where are you at? Down in the U.N.V.A. too, right? Yeah. Yeah. OK. Yes. OK, yeah. Yeah, I'm in North Virginia. I'm in North Virginia. I'm like Tyson's Corner. OK. All right. I'm a couple hours away. I saw you on the tip of Virginia. Well, I grew up, yeah. That's where I grew up, down in Southwest Virginia. So but now we live in Charlottesville, Virginia. OK. Just a couple hours from you. Oh, not bad. No, we got to link up for sure. You go. No. No. OK, I was about to say. I might be like a golfer. I might be D-Lo, but that's about it. Yeah, he could be me for sure. Yeah, they ain't no feet. Come on. That's not even that hell. I could probably lose to like a little kid. Yeah, he is too much muscles, too many muscles. Yeah, my golf game is seriously, seriously hot garbage, brother. Seriously, but I wanted to ask you something first, because, you know, I see you went to UVA and did you went there as a quarterback and ended up switching positions? Yep. How did that go? I went to UVA as a quarterback. I committed to the coach's name was George Welsh at the time. OK. And when I committed, they said, you know, we want to bring you in as a quarterback and other schools that wanted me to do different positions. But I thought, let's give quarterback a try. Coach Welsh retired before I got there. So then Al Grove took over. Yes. And I stayed at quarterback for like a month or two. I was there. I'll say this. I was there long enough for me to know I was never going to get on the field at quarterback. That's all I needed to know. So. So then they're like, hey, you you're a big body. Why don't you try scout? You know, feeling on the scout team, we only got a couple tight ends. You get some reps and help us out there. So I did that. And then like a month later, like, hey, Heath, what won't you actually go to the meetings with the tight ends? Just, you know, just so you know what you're doing. And then after that season, it I kind of knew what what it what it should be. And. Fully transitioned to tight end and the rest is history. Oh, no, I all worked out perfectly. That's good stuff. I love that. Yeah. Joe, were you a quarterback? No, you play quarterback. Exactly. I played quarterback all through high school. I thought I was going to go. Oh, yeah. That's how you play defensive back to you a second team. Defensive. I play what? Do you play in safety or corner safety? Safety. Safety. OK. See, Todd, I'm look, me and you, we get me. You know what I'm saying? We're on the athletes over here. We play the athletes play with athletes play. Yes. You know, did you play quarterback to in high school? I played quarterback to high school. No, Divo. Did you play quarterback? No, bro. I won no quarterback, man. I played running. I play I play running back in linebacker. I'm running through. No, no, no. You didn't play that position, right, Joe? No, not at all. I did that same thing. I was quarterback, quarterback, quarterback where I played at all they did was hand the ball to me. Oh, OK. See, I was I was getting you. We was play action passing Divo. That's what we was doing. Yeah. No, no. See, we was doing triple option and all that, you know, quarterback, I don't know if he won't. We had he passed a little bit. Well, when. Yeah, when I realized how hard it was to call the plays and send guys in motion and then remember what to say for the snap count. I said, this might be too much for me. I can't do this. Could you throw you could you actually throw the rocket? He broke records in high school. A little bit, a little bit. Man, so I don't don't don't. I was a Divo. I was the I was why you calling him Todd, man. His name is he. He. Hey, man, take off that half stillers jersey, man. You know, you get out of here, man. That's he's, man. No, with the Steelers after after Heinz left, I was the emergency quarterback. Like if we only dressed two quarterbacks, then I was the number three guy. Oh, OK. So I would get one. I was scared every week. I would get one rep on Friday. It would be a hand off and hand off to the right, usually. Bruh, you came in what, 2005? Yeah. What 2005? You got you got two of them things, two. Do yes, he does. Yeah. What? What? What stands out to you when you think back to those Super Bowl runs? Like, you know, what? What did those teams have in common versus what? What, you know, what it looked like towards the end? I think the probably just the camaraderie and maybe the selflessness as a whole as a whole team, like we were truly a team and nobody really cared who got the credit. And in both cases, we got hot at the end of the year. And I think once we got into the playoffs, both years, there was a feeling that maybe we all had that I don't think anybody can beat us if we play our game. And even the last year that we lost in Super Bowl to Green Bay, you kind of get that feeling like nobody's going to stop us. I guess that's why that was just hard to swallow because we did. We came up with a little bit. Yeah. But no, the camaraderie and I think, you know, true teams, because especially later, I think offensively we had some teams that were loaded with talent. Yeah. Maybe defensively we were better earlier on. But, you know, we had some some talented guys that I played with later in my career, but we just didn't couldn't get it going at the right time for whatever reason. Yeah. Yeah. I like especially, you know, like I said, when you go back to like those, you know, that basically all the way up until like that five to 12 range, something like that, two to 12 range, 2002 to 12 range. Like, dude, it was you damn near spent more time with guys, you know, on the team outside than you did your family. You know what I'm saying? It was like, OK, we go do this over here. We're going to do that over there. And everything was kind of like, you know, mixed together with watching film, eating, celebrating, playing some cards, doing this and that, getting body work, getting treatment, all that other stuff. Well, for us on the defensive side, I don't know how y'all did it on the offensive side, but for us, like it was, you know, everything was just mushed and mixed together. So. Yeah. And you guys, you know, I'm an offensive player, but we were a defensive led team through all those years. I mean, we had one of the best defenses in the league. And as offensive guys, we knew that and we were every day in practice was harder than the game. You know, when you got to the game on Sundays after you practice or you trade against those guys, that's good on good. Yeah. So when we got through training camp, we knew we were prepared for any defense, anything a defense could throw at us. And it was going to be easier than what we had just faced. So it's just like that whole iron sharpener and iron. And, you know, and the defense being the best group on the team, the way they cared about each other, the selflessness they played with that trickled down to the whole team. And offensively, we had guys like Heinz, who was throwing his body around. Oh, yeah. No job. Too small. I mean, when your best players play like that, everybody else just falls in line. And I think that made for some special teams back in the day. Yeah. Speaking of opponents, who was the most difficult for you to block? Who was it that you went against? That was, you know, hard to block because you was a good, you was a good, real good, you know, blocking tight. Raise block. Han could catch the ball. Oh. Um, guys who gave me the most trouble. I mean, we played Terrell Suggs a lot in Baltimore twice a year, most times three times a year. He gave me a lot of trouble because he could do, he wasn't, he could do anything. He could be with speed. He was a massive dude. So he was strong and powerful. And he was also savvy like above the neck. He wasn't going to do the same thing and play cookie cutter within the defense every snap. Like he could, you know, he knew our four, he knew formations, you could call out plays, even if he was supposed to have contain and the balls run away, he might dip you inside. So he's giving you a different look every time which made, you know, I like to be prepared above the neck. I feel like that helped, helped me, but he was a little bit unorthodox where you didn't really know what he was going to do based on their alignment. And when you combine that with all of his talent and physical skills, he was a problem for sure. Yeah. So look, this is the thing too. You and Big Ben Ben said that you were his favorite receiver of all time, which makes complete sense because you were always on the same page. Was that something that you like gradually just started working on or did it, did it take time? Or was that something like y'all instantly just, you knew, you kind of like felt like you knew what he wanted you to be and you knew what he wanted you to be? I think maybe it took a little bit of time, but a lot of it was just natural. I think the fact that maybe we're had did play quarterback before. Yeah, that makes sense. And I don't know, I grew up playing a ton of sports. So I think Ben grew up playing a ton of sports as well. So we just had that kind of a natural knack and feel for how to play the game, whether basketball or whatever. We just kind of played off of each other and there was a lot of unspoken stuff. I wish I could say we could, we spent hours in the film room or hours on the field and I had to practice, but look, that was just kind of a natural thing that worked together. No, for sure. And I think really, because like you said, being on the offensive side of the ball, playing quarterback and just kind of feeling you play all different types of sports, basketball, baseball, saw that. So just being natural and kind of knowing the feel of the game is kind of the same when you, like you did, you did a quarterback too. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, you have your route on a piece of paper that you go up and you make a, you know, turn left at 12 yards, but don't always, you know, Joe and Covern, it don't always look like that when you go to the field and you got to kind of play with it and know the zone and the defense and how to work to get open and when to get open and understand what the quarterback's going through before he might get to you in the progression. So it all works together. And I think that, you know, Ben was a lot of fun to play with in that regard, because it was always, you never knew how the play was going to turn out and you would make it on. I love that. Sure. Compared to early Ben, when you first got there, 2005, you know, 2006, 2007, to 2014, 15, and then what, what, what, what would you say was the greatest progression of, you know, him developing like into big men? I think he's just probably just the natural ownership of the offense. When we first got there, or when I first got there and early in your career, James, our offensive line was, and we had the bus, we had Deuce Staley, we then had Willie Parker. So we were a running team behind Alan Fannica, Marvell Smith, a lot of guys up front, Kendall Simmons, all those guys, Big Macs, Jeff Hardings. I think three of those guys were in the Pro Bowl when I walked down the hall, like the first time in the building, and they had the Pro Bowl picture up there was like almost the whole offensive line. Yeah. I think it was like four. Yeah, might have. Yeah. So there's a lot of dudes on that line. So, and then was a young quarterback. So obviously we ran the ball a lot. We play action past. I think some games we throw it like 15, 20 times a game and we might win by three or four touchdowns. But then, you know, as we progress, then, you know, Ben, game more ownership of the offense, rightfully so. And, you know, he's changed the protections at the line. He's calling plays at the line. And, you know, they're kind of giving him the reins and the keys, keys to the car, so to speak. And then they surrounded him with a lot of weapons as well. So it was fun to see that progression. Oh, yeah, definitely. Like, you know, just me, you know, say, me and there since 2002, and just watching, I'm like, yo, like, you know, like you said, we were we early in his career, if we had a point where if we had more than I think it was like 18 or 20 passes from him, we lost. Like anything below like 18, it was like 80 something percent, you know, win whatever it was. But as you said, like, as he got better, had a better understanding of, you know, what he's looking at and grasp of the offense, you know, it just it just flowed through, especially, you know, with him being able to put the ball wherever you know, really wanted to and, you know, extending with his place. I think a lot of people don't realize that when he was young and he was extending with his place, it was more of he might have had a chance to get a pass in there sooner, but he just didn't have time to get to that part. So he extended the play. And that's where it was the old win backyard football defense break down is spot pass. And that was great for him. Yeah, he could use his athleticism. And then going back, I just thought, like we were talking about the team things, we were defensive teams. So the fact that if on offense, if we could run the ball and eat the clock and keep our defense fresh and on the sidelines or when they were when they did take the field to get after the quarterback and bring their pressure packages and stuff and they were fresh, it was it was really it was complimentary football at its best. And, you know, that's the way we played. And then obviously, as Ben got older, he became our best player on the team, then we built team around him. And, you know, we could put more points on the board at that point. Sure, sure. No gloss, no filter, just stories, spoken without fear. For some who is not generous cannot be an artist. The world will be at peace only when it is ruled by poets and philosophers. Listen to my weekly podcast, the Pooja Bhachow on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Come for the honesty, stay for the fire. This is an iHeart podcast, guaranteed human.