NFL wins appeal of collusion ruling + Roger Goodell on Australia game (4/13 Hour 2)

Monday edition of PFT Live. This is something that landed yesterday all the connolly of the read optional, substack. I don't know what a substack is. It's just like a blog. It's like a blog platform and I think you have to pay but you don't have to pay. You sign up, you still get it. I don't know. I don't know how it works. But I do know this. There was a report that Reuben Bain Jr. was involved in a fatal car accident in 2024 and it's police reports. It's all buttoned up. It happened. There was a 22-year-old passenger in the car and this is the worst part. Destiny Betts. She was a Georgia student visiting during I think spring break. Was seriously injured, was in a coma for three months and eventually died. There were other injuries involved. So now this is out there but the reality is this is the kind of stuff that teams easily find out. They have resources available. That's right Mike. Where they can find any police report that has named the player anywhere in the country. Like they do it every year. They have access to services where you put in the player's name, you put in the player's date of birth and you're gonna get anything that he's ever done. Probably all the way down to parking tickets. Anything that is digital in the system anywhere you're gonna know. The teams know about it. This isn't some bombshell that someone's dropping to try to get a guy to fall in the draft. This is out there. Now the thing that bugs me is the idea that here come the reporters who say we've known about this forever. Well why didn't you report it then? Don't tell me you knew about it. You didn't report it because it's worthy of being reported. It's a car collision involving a key player that resulted in a serious injury that culminated in death. Of course you should have reported it if you knew about it. Don't show up to the table and act like hey I'm one of the cool kids that knew all the long. All the teams knew and I did too. You're failing your audience. It gets back to some of the issues and balances and standards we were talking about earlier. Why are you deliberately withholding it? I think sometimes though in that too like I understand what you're saying. I'm not pushing back but I think sometimes too is people don't want to be the one that puts it out there right and is used to. It's fair game. Well I know it's fair game but sometimes it's also used like why is that agent telling me that? Oh because he's not his player. He wants me to release that to crap on the player now and make his life worse and like I do think there's some out there that they're just go I don't want to be a part of that. Okay I know the story. Somebody else will break it. I'm not going to be a part of it right. I do think that happens at times but you're right. It's a major story and it's a superstar but also I think people would be shocked at how many times as we know and there's ones that you've heard me joke about in the viewing room at NBC where stuff has gone on and you've gone this is like a big deal that you know everybody in the NFL knew it never became public knowledge and it was like just one of those stories that kind of flew under the radar but for whatever reason it didn't really get put out there and that seems to happen in the draft but yeah this is a serious one but to your point the teams know about this and they've known about it forever. That that's the point. Back to the point of consciously choosing not to report on it. That's fine but don't brag that you knew about it. Yeah okay that's I hear you yeah yeah yeah I hear you totally there's there's something unseemly about that yeah yeah you're right about that. That's what's annoying about it. I'm on the inside totally well do your job then yeah do your job or don't do your job just shut up and let it be out. I could have done my job if I had done my job yeah so as it relates to the teams knowing and it doesn't matter if it becomes public there is one way and this depends on the team involved and I'm not saying there's any one team I'm just saying it can be any team. Once something like that becomes public that's when the owner can start to become a little skittish. Sure. If it's not known and there's no reason to believe it will be known yeah you feel one way. Once it's out there yeah you may feel a different way and sometimes maybe things get leaked I don't know to try to scare off certain owners that will then cause the player to fall because look Jalen Carter is the apples to apples comparison. Jalen Carter was involved in a fatal car accident yeah months before the 2023 draft. He was charged they ultimately resolved it. I remember with the combine waiting to interview him. Oh he's he's he left yeah he left the combine. Yeah why do you leave? We had this issue. So what happens? He falls to number nine. The Eagles don't hesitate. They have a guy that was second for defensive rookie of the year in 23 Pro Bowler in 24 Pro Bowler in 25 that's what they got and other than the spinning incident with Dak Prescott it hasn't been an issue. Yeah he hasn't been an issue for the Philadelphia Eagles. Yeah so so like yeah that's where it's tough. Maybe the guy needs to fall just enough to get a wake-up call maybe that's the the takeaway like if it doesn't affect you at all maybe you don't learn the lesson but when you should be top five and you end up going ninth maybe that's enough to wake you up. The team can use to try to speak to your better angels and get you to not do things that that you've already done. Yeah well definitely. And look yeah kids do dumb shit at that age. Exactly. I'm not saying it's a character flaw. People do dumb things. Their brains haven't fully developed. They drive their cars too fast. They engage in reckless behaviors. They do stupid things. Every child who grows to that age is capable of doing something dumb. I did dumb shit at that age. Me too. Me too. I tell my wife to this day. I mean she saw you know we were married when I was that age and sometimes she goes why'd you do this or why I was dumb. I don't know. I was 24. It was an idiot. Like I mean it's not you know don't don't do that to me. But yeah I mean it's a it's a bad look. No doubt doesn't help Reuben Baines certainly. And I think the thing that it does kind of what you're talking to and doing as well with the ownership is it brings up the I told you so aspect to wow now there's public pressure. You knew that you know. OK so there's public pressure if we draft the guy. And what happens is if he makes a mistake in his rookie year the second year everybody's going to go well you knew he did this. What were you thinking. He obviously had reckless behavior and that's what can scare the owner. Right. That's a little bit's going on. Let's say with James Pearson Atlanta right now. He had going into the draft. People knew there was off the field issues. There was things that scared people a little bit. Atlanta took that chance. Now the rest of the league are going to be like this. And Arthur Blank are going. You know this is why I fired him Raheem Moore or whatever. I mean damn look at this. Oh no I got to deal with this now. So that's what happens when it gets put out there. And yes could it end up maybe making Reuben Baines fall a few spots. Certainly. And yeah you're right. I mean the difference between being picked number three and number nine is millions and millions of dollars. And that'll definitely wake people up and learn a lesson that way. But yeah this is a tough situation and certainly going to be a tough situation right now with it being out there in the public. I haven't really thought about it Chris. Yeah. I guess I've I've noticed without affirmatively noticing over the years there's been less of a frenzy by reporters to find and publish information about off field issues. Yeah. Involving the incoming players would agree. And maybe the reporters are being more responsible. Maybe the teams are engaging less frequently in these underhanded activities where it's very simple. If you really like a guy you put some bad stuff out there about him so he'll fall to you. And it's a Machiavellian approach and it hurts the kid but it helps you. You want the kid on your team so badly that you're willing to instigate a draft day slide that will cost him millions of dollars. Yeah. You want that kid on your team. Totally. And the other thing too I think that's different. That has happened. You're right. 100%. And I think that that's where maybe it's a little different now is compared to the old days maybe 15 years ago. Yeah there was a little bit more leaning on people. Wait did you did you hear this story. Did you know this story. You had to go that way to what you kind of started the conversation with now. Everything so digital that it's all there. The teams know not only like do we talk about the area scout right. We is whoever we got in charge of the southeast and in charge of the Miami hurricane scouting there. They're going to know those stories. And then I could speak to it from my own personal experience working for the New England Patriots. What you talked about. I was there one of the guy I had a worry. I got a checklist today. Guys that are coming out in the draft. I got to crack through it here. I got to go through the databases put their names in put little key phrases in to see if it comes up with anything that comes up there. You know that they might have gotten trouble that kind of flew under the radar. We didn't find out about it. So the teams now have more of that available than ever before and are all over it to where maybe that's why it's not you know put on blast maybe quite like it was in the old days where people had to actually talk and call each other to figure things out. Well and just hopefully the teams have realized that it's not fair to the players. That's right. Try to instigate. Yeah. A slide to whisper to someone. Hey you should write this story. Hopefully hopefully the sport is evolved for the better in that way. Remember the Wonderlick test used to be a huge deal. Right. They don't even do it anymore. Thank God. That thing was so unreliable. The players would show up not even knowing they were going to take it. They don't care. Some guys were prepared on it. Some guys had no idea it was an agent problem more than a player problem and those numbers would get leaked. They would get leaked and they would get weaponized. And again there were astute and very shrewd people in front offices who were using the media to try to get the guy they want. I just feel like that doesn't happen to the same extent now. Yeah. And but but this Ruben Bain thing I don't know how it came out now why it came out now but it came out and we know about it and we'll see if and when he gets drafted he will will it affect him. We don't know. All right. Let's take a break. When we return the NFL got another win in the collusion grievance that has been hanging around for several years now but is it still at the core kind of a loss. We'll discuss that next on PFTLock. So in March of 2022 the Browns traded for and gave quarterback to Sean Watson a five year fully guaranteed contract that same month at the annual meetings the NFL invited teams to collude when it comes to refusing to give other key players specifically quarterbacks fully guaranteed contracts. The next three quarterbacks well three of the next several quarterbacks who got fully guaranteed who got new contracts excuse me did not get fully guaranteed contracts that resulted in a grievance that was filed in late 22 20. Yeah late 22. D Smith was still the executive director. It proceeded for a couple of years in litigation as an arbitration and early 20 25. The ruling was that the league did not collude but embedded in that ruling was a finding that the league did invite the teams to collude and then it was hidden for five months by both sides inexplicably the NFL players association hid from its constituents something that could have been weaponized against the league in multiple different ways. We caught them with their hand in the cookie jar even though there's no finding they ate the cookies we caught them with their hand in the jar and that alone is problem enough. So when it came to light Pablo Torrey is the one who discovered the ruling at my urging we were working together. We did several episodes of his podcast together last June and July. After that the NFL PA appealed it and after more than a year the appeal ruling came in on Friday Chris we reported it at PFT same outcome but even stronger on the idea that the league invited the teams to collude. They were being invited to participate in collusion but the three person panel that handled the appeal found that there was not sufficiently clear evidence that the teams actually did collude which is odd because usually when the league when the management council says jump they just jump they don't even ask how high yeah jump what it what it like what do you think that means are being invited to participate I mean they like they're just saying that open conversations about it and like you know we don't want to go there as a whole and ownership is it I'm just I'm just trying to hear the language a little bit that way or what your thought is on that. There were communications between the commissioner and Jeff Pash the former general council league about the concerns arising from the DeSean Watson contract and communications made at the meetings basically don't do this yeah yeah okay don't do this yeah and what's weird is we've always thought that when the management council tells teams what they can and can't do they they comply and I think common sense tells us that they comply that the most compelling piece of evidence as it relates to this grievance because three quarterbacks were involved Lamar Jackson Russell Wilson and Kyler Murray when Justin Herbert signed and did not do no no no excuse me when Kyler Murray signed and did not do a fully guaranteed contract there were communications by text between Dean Spanos the owner of the Chargers and Michael Bidwell the owner of the Cardinals where Spanos was congratulating Bidwell on basically holding the line and like why would you care why why would you be like yeah you know they're they're kind of in this together and they're trying to push back against fully guaranteed contracts but hey I still disagree because I think there's enough circumstantial evidence there and I've been following the league long enough to know that I mean where there's smoke on something like this I think there's fire but but one very eye-opening yeah I saw finding that was made yeah and I didn't look it was mentioned in the prior ruling but it was kind of equivocal yeah yeah they said in this in this appeal ruling that the Ravens made two fully guaranteed three-year offers to Lamar Jackson and he rejected them both that is significant yeah that's big news certainly I mean that you know so the Ravens they were willing to just go we don't care about guaranteed contracts or not we got a guy here three years we can guarantee that because we saw what Kirk Cousins get a three-year guaranteed deal as well right but this is one where it just feels like like what were the owners thinking like it you don't need to have a conversation or have a meeting telling we didn't want to do guaranteed contracts we all know they didn't want that what like it's like it's almost amazing that they would be this self-incriminating this way to do that it's like duh you didn't have to have a meeting to know that we knew the league was pissed at Jimmy Haslam for what they did with the Sean Watson anyways and on top of that it was a really odd you know perfect storm situation that that led to the guaranteed contract one that we've never really seen a star player be in that situation ever before to where yes multiple teams bidding telling one team he wants nothing to do with them they've already screwed it up with Baker Mayfield so they're like oh shit we got no quarterback let's let's back up the Brinks truck and just give them the damn guaranteed contract because now we got nothing so we got to get them over here I mean that's just what's crazy is that's how it went down and it's it just feels like the odors didn't even need to say this or put the bat signal out there to make this happen that way but they wanted to make sure yeah they wanted this trend did not continue and when it happened it set off alarm bells at 345 Park Avenue to ensure that they get this under control because here's the the basic reality and this dovetails with something that I think we're going to be discussing later I don't know if we are or aren't let me just check real quick because we've gone over and yeah it's not so the Department of Justice is currently taking a microscope to the NFL for antitrust violations potentially as it relates to the broadcast deals yeah for the labor side of this because the NFL and the NFLPA are part of what's known as a multi employer bargaining unit it gives the various employers the 32 employers who are part of it an antitrust exemption to set rules among the various workplaces how much they're going to get paid the transfer rules trading how the new employees are going to come in via the draft maximum pay minimum pay all of those things these 32 independent businesses wouldn't be allowed to do that without being part of this union it's what the colleges need to do that's how the colleges get what the colleges are trying so desperately to get the federal government to provide them that's how you get the antitrust exemption you unionize all the players nationwide and then you get that exemption but when you have a cba and it has rules about what you can and can't do when you make a side agreement among the employers to do something that's not in the cba yeah i know because under the cba you're allowed to give fully guaranteed contracts yeah whenever when they're when they're gonna huddle in the corner and say hey you know we're not gonna yeah yeah just doesn't ever seem like there's a penalty for their collusion that's what i'll say never that but that becomes here's where it becomes relevant yeah that's an antitrust violation and at a time when the doj is on the case if i'm the union and kudos to jc trevor first official act on the job yeah he didn't bury this thing like like the former guy did for whatever reason he communicated to the board of player reps it's not hidden it's out there it's out in the open and now how are they going to weaponize it it becomes a pr tool and i'd send it straight to the department of justice hey hey you're looking at antitrust violations here's one yeah here caught with their hand in the cookie jar yeah that'd be they're willing to engage in anti-competitive collusive practices yeah no i mean listen one one yeah that that would be a an incredible thing to do there's not many ways that the nfl pa can really fight back and and and really you know make waves or really put the corners in some bad situations that's one where they might be able to pile on a little bit here definitely and yeah as an x player it just it just feels like yeah when the owners collude it's just like how so what deal with it and then if the players were to do something like that we know it would be a disaster but yeah this is unfortunate and of course it's always about keeping players the money out of the players pocket i always go back to the the other the one that just jumps out to me is i think we brought it up last week or the week before that about the uncapped year and then the teams exceeded the uncapped and and just went out and paid money washington dallas whatever and they're like hold on hold on we only said uncapped you know just for some public bs we all were in the meeting room going don't spend more than this like what a bunch of bs so yeah i'm all for it jc trevor send it to the doj get it going the quarterly meetings d smith who was now twice in the rearview mirror as the executive director he used to call them collusion meetings yeah they all get together and they all talk about stuff and typically there's not much of a paper trail that's what's so jarring about this one they allowed a paper trail to be created they have emails they have presentations they didn't need to do that you can get your point across without putting it all in writing and you know the reality is the ravens didn't bite they offered lemar jackson two three-year fully guaranteed contracts according to the ruling that was issued late last week and i don't know whether or not the three-year fully guaranteed contracts included no tag clause and i don't know how close the financial value was to the market at the time it was 51.5 million that was top of the market apy new money jalen herds he had done his deal lemar jackson's eventual five-year deal pushed to 52.5 but three years are better if they're fully guaranteed it's better because year four year five often is at the mercy of the team if you're not performing they'll cut you if you're overperforming oh well oh well maybe we'll give you an extension that's where lemar jackson is right now now about half of his money this year is fully guaranteed at this point but he's into the out years he's in year four and five he deserves more than 52 million yeah right now yeah if he had done a three-year deal especially if he had a no tag clause imagine that if he had done a three-year deal with a no tag clause he'd have been a free agent this year yeah free it wouldn't have been malik willis going to miami it would have been lamar now they would have had they would have had to really well the tour yeah tour captain would have been a whole lot of money yeah go let's go back two years if we had known two years ago the more lamar jackson was under a three-year contract fully guaranteed with a no tag clause if it had one maybe the dolphins don't extend to a maybe they wait for lamar no i mean maybe it'd be hard to call it at that point three years ago all right so wait this is what i went two years yeah two years ago it's still a long way out but but yeah i'd be interested to know too we know that miami's on lamar's radar but also within that too let me for a guy like three-year guaranteed contract yes makes sense for everybody it doesn't make sense for the franchise quarterback always i mean practically four years are guaranteed with the quarterbacks in the way that like if you're a superstar of lamar they're all guaranteed yeah so it's like they're all guaranteed so like why not just take the more years and you just go well it's another year you know add it on i know you don't get back to the negotiating table i guess that's the biggest reason right that's the biggest reason but regardless it does you want to force them back to the table yeah yeah you want to force them back but that's why a prominent agent told me years ago yeah that i don't care about the guarantees i care about maximizing the money yeah because it's all guaranteed no no franchise quarterback's gonna get cut paid mannington because he had four surgeries neck surgeries in one year and what happened he got to pick his next team and he was in immediate demand so for a friend for a true franchise quarterback if you by getting greater guarantee give up money it's better to get more money and give up guarantee that's that's the thinking so uh you're right though but but it's not like lamar jackson is getting 60 65 70 million that's the problem yeah yeah this deal yeah he'd have been a free agent and he'd have gone straight to the market yeah and who knows what he would have gotten but he would have gotten more than the 52 million he's due to make this year you know how we know that because if he wasn't worth 52 million the ravens would have cut him i mean look at what happened with tua look at what happened with kyle murray yeah you yeah if you're not living on even if there's a significant guarantee they'll still cut you loose um so let's see what the union does because there's a lot there they can make a lot of hay with this if they want to they didn't a year ago let's see if they do it now and then uh yeah i i don't know why lamar didn't take it and it's not something that i think we're going to find out because nobody ever knows what's happening but that's all part of the background as lamar jackson continues to try to get his new contract with the ravens one that he clearly deserves all right let's take a break when we return roger godel weighs in on cal shanahans concerns about playing week one in the land down under that's next on pft live you think you know how how early you're gonna go out there yeah we're still discussing it but we um and we had a bunch of guys on our team go out just to feel it out and they said they felt pretty messed up for a few days yeah so i mean i think we got to get out there about three days earlier before we start like a normal work week which would be a normal wednesday sure it's confusing to talk what days that is but um i'm gonna do what our science tells us to do and try not to i'll bitch about it all off season at my house and stuff with my wife yeah um but i'll embrace it once it gets going that was cal shanahan aka scottie shuffler hand and his green jacket two weeks ago and rory mef he had the floor yeah and then shuffler there at the the table yeah but he clearly is not interested in starting the season with a game in austria who would be yeah what what head coach wants to travel that far yes through 19 time zones to play a game that counts nobody wants to do it they're doing it because they have to do it and the rams lobbied kyle believes yeah the nfl for the 49ers to be the opponent so the rams can avoid the annual embarrassment of having so far stadium overrun by the faithful that's a given yeah so that's the background here's the commissioner here he is from late last week in melbourne to promote the game and addressing among other things kyle shanahan's concerns coaches are have a focus on winning that's their number one job and so coach shanahan is enthusiastic and a great football coach but also someone who truly understands the importance of expanding our game globally but his job is to win his job is to play and i always say coaches like to play at one o'clock and four o'clock and don't get in the way of that so we're going to make it a great experience for the team that's one of the things we focus on everybody here and so many others have focused on make it a great experience for everyone the team included when they go back they got to make sure that they're able to continue the competitiveness because this game is real this counts and they'll go on to week two as soon as they leave her yeah that's the problem that's the problem they'll go on to week two as soon as they leave here and this idea that shanahan understands the importance of growing the game globally i think he may understand that the nfo wants to do you really think he cares about that i would suspect he doesn't care i wouldn't care i care about my team my legacy i'll be dead by the time and i know i will be and call maybe two by the time this international experiment comes to full fruition you're gonna you're gonna create and this is the reality they are going to create short-term competitive disadvantages for teams all in the name of trying trying to make the sport into a global phenomenon yeah sure i mean shanahan wants the sport to be bigger and we know that just like everybody like we all do but at his expense is a different story at his expense to where oh no now we maybe get off to a we know the start of the season's hard enough as it is this day and age with all the practice rules and guys don't play as much in the preseason and now you're gonna go to australia and do that yeah and it counts certainly not only is that tough but i think what makes it more annoying probably is that yeah not only do we have to do that the league wants us to do that but our rival team is the one that introduces and by all due accounts has made this happen so that makes it even more chippy which is going to add to the rivalry certainly but as you've heard me to say before and we saw shanahan in that clip maybe we go out three days before i would think when it gets down to it you're probably going to want to go out there even before that it's i told you i told you about my tokyo experience we went out three days before we weren't normal for the next week 10 days two weeks after it threw us off and that's what you're worried about if you're shanahan in the 49ers that's a tough one certainly it really is but yeah it's for the greater good of the game that's certainly gonna make him yeah bitch and complain to his wife a little bit at home but when it comes time you know the 49ers will be ready to go are you sure you weren't normal after japan because of the local agriculture you may have oh inhaled the fumes of well burning fumes of i don't know yeah what do you mean they like almost they have that over there yeah no they don't like the japanese weed yo you can't mess with that over there neil they'll throw your ass in jail so here's paul mccartney get arrested over here here's a great story okay a great story i'm not gonna put names to it because i'm afraid but i'm not gonna put names to it we were in a town i mean a huge meeting room the bucks and the jets the commissioner everybody everybody that's important in the league right they just they get up in front of us and tell us the the laws of the land the you know how things go and basically they get up and they tell us that in japan if they're even suspicious that you may be on an illegal substance they can literally pull you off the street and drug test you so without any failure we had somebody stand up right away and what do you all mean what do you mean we can't what are we supposed to do you know and this was a tampa bay buccaneer player who went we got people on this team who did drugs this morning what are we supposed to do stay in our hotel room the whole week right so yeah they better you better be careful uh in land in a land like that no i didn't mess with anything while i was there in japan not at all january 16 1980 paul mccartney arrives in tokyo i remember this with i saw this recently a half pound of marijuana in his bag yeah it was large enough to warrant a smuggling charge and a potential seven-year prison sentence yikes instead instead he was deported nine days later yeah never made an appearance in court but yeah he could have spent seven years yikes behind bars yikes in in japan better be careful yeah be careful i don't know what the rules are in australia uh but uh be careful i would think i would think they're cool there eat some eucalyptus leaves some eucalyptus leaves in australia and you'll be fine all right let's take a break another first round pick from the 2023 draft is locked into his fifth year option that's next not pft lot in the least surprising news that you will hear all week vijon robinson has his fifth year option exercised by the atlanta falcons now the deadlines may one doing it now gives the player free insurance fully guaranteed pay for 2027 in the event that he suffers an injury during the off season program i ain't showing up for the off season program if i'm vijon robinson vijon robinson jamir gives do not enter the facility do not pick up a weight do not put on a cleat do not do anything until you get your second contract that's a no-brainer and i'm sorry falcons fans lions fans you just want everything to be fine well the sooner your organizations take care of these guys then it'll all be fine because they both deserve massive market level paydays and they should take zero risk zero risk with their health now or in the future until they get those contracts totally there i mean i'm with you you know that don't you know be careful now listen i'm a little different than you that i'd go no i'd like them to lift weights and be in shape and put themselves in their best position but don't don't take any risk within that you don't need to do otas we don't need to catch you and we don't need to see you catch a little angle route over the middle on april 29th or at this point like they know how good you are so don't take those risks but yeah they need to be paid and we talk about the running backs all the time and these are two of the better running backs we've seen in a while i mean it's rockets up your butt it's breaking ankles they are awesome to watch gibbs and bian robinson they're two of the five or six most explosive offensive players in football and yeah they are worth a lot of damn money so be careful we talked about jaylen carter earlier he slipped to number nine in the 2023 draft here's the top 10 and last week we had the techsons pick up the fifth year option on cj stroud who was second overall will anderson who was third overall anthony richardson fourth overall we we know how that's going and yeah the fifth year option will not be exercised devin witherspoon's had the fifth year option boom exercised uh the others i brice young i was first overall i don't i don't think we've seen i don't think i've seen that yet either yet for him i don't remember that tyree wilson no raiders paris johnson cardinals paris johnson yes i thought but maybe i'm wrong about that one too maybe i missed that darnell right was tenth that year by john robinson by the way eighth carter ninth darnell right tenth so um i would again they haven't till may one yeah most of those guys for right right yeah right i mean is it he's a phenomenal he's one of the best right tackles in football so that that's going to be fifth year option the only one right the only one that you see not being exercised is richardson i think richardson and probably maybe maybe ty and maybe tyree wilson i i would bet you brice i would think they do that at this point i mean you just went to the playoffs he seems to be going this way yeah i would think that they give brice young the fifth year option to have that insurance policy too i think ty tyrie wilson and anthony richardson are the two that i look on there to go yeah they they're not going to get the fifth year option dan morgan the gm of the panthers said in january they intend to pick it up but it's not official yet yeah so it's not it's probably not huge money because it's not like brice young you know multiple pro bowler that's the issue with jaylen carter jaylen carter because he's made two pro bowls his fifth year option 27 million totally strouds i think cj strouds is probably going to be higher than brice young's because strouds have been more successful early in his career but then brice young has been and and hey brice young has played well and look you pick you pick it up you pick it up i mean it's not a huge amount of money and if you don't pick it up you get yourself into a franchise tag mess exactly although remember when they picked up two is and we were like i don't know they really should they really have picked that up and then decided to that massive contract while they still had the fifth year option really i yeah well that doesn't make sense yeah how badly that was handed yeah exactly right in every possible way totally all right let's take a break we'll wrap up this monday edition of pft live right after this the nfl and the nfl referees association have a collective bargaining agreement that expires on may 31 however the league plans to begin training replacement officials as of may one it's not clear whether the two sides agree on the deadline for getting a deal done but last week it took it seriously because they brought they brought the folks with the money gary jones was involved directly in the negotiations last week and all we've seen is very simple basic meeting was productive there's expectation for continued discussions i think they reached an agreement knock it off with the pr bullcrap which helps the nfl referees association because the nfl was taken full advantage of nfl network and espn the nfl now with 10 of uspn and i'm sorry if you work for uspan you don't like me mentioning that take it up with your bosses who allowed the nfl to buy 10 of the company okay because there's there's a credibility issue with all of the reporting from nfl network and espn as it relates to the fingerprints of the league using those outlets as a way to get their message out there so if everyone's agreed to shut up that's a win for the nfl r a because there's an imbalance in the ability of the nfl to get its propaganda out there and the ability of the nfl referees association to respond in kind yeah it's a good start i mean i'm i'm happy to hear that i saw when you wrote that last week that jerry jones was there i was like okay finally we're getting serious here now i i'm i'm not none of them for starting this training of the replacement refs on may 1st they got to be ready so yeah i mean i i understand that at least there's a plan in place here but you know as we've discussed a zillion times now uh we don't want to see these replacement refs and hopefully jerry jones and some of the other owners can figure all this out and make sure we put the best product possible on the football field this year you know i'm thinking of some of jerry jones favorite catch phrases and how one in particular would or wouldn't apply here but i think it's better to just let certain impulses go yeah yeah now when these kind of things this jerry jones does he does he tell them that you know hey i don't want your financial representative there i just want to talk to you to myself like he does with his players does he go yeah hey hey don't bring your negotiator in now now do you stay out there i want to talk to these referees myself and do this does he do that just like he does with his players i want to know that yeah you know that's that's an excellent point but scott green who was a long time official is in charge of the nfl referees association i just wonder if they even have close to enough by way of resources to take on a fight like this with the nfl really is david goliath yeah and i know that everyone's like anti-official hey they're doing their best and they they need to have help as they try to get the best possible deal from the league that's it for today see you tomorrow