Nima Jalali, founder of SALT & STONE, shares his journey from professional snowboarder to building a $165M beauty brand in 8 years. He discusses maintaining profitability from day one, building a remote team of 55, and recently completing a partial exit with Advent International.
- Product excellence is the primary driver of CPG success - superior products sell themselves with less marketing spend
- Maintaining profitability from day one enables sustainable growth without dependency on external funding
- Small, focused teams can outcompete large corporations through relentless execution and founder-led decision making
- Building retailer demand through brand strength eliminates the need for traditional sales teams
- Total commitment and sacrifice of work-life balance is essential during the early growth phase of consumer brands
"You got to create a brand that the retailer wants. You don't want to go and just like push something down a retailer's throat"
"I want my grandkids to look at this thing and be like, oh, yeah, that's what my grandfather built"
"You can't go and be like, work, life, balance because there's gonna be someone right behind you that's gonna come and take your place"
"The business has just been so profitable that we didn't really need to inject it with money"
Introduce yourself for those who are not familiar, since it is your first time.
0:00
My name is Nima Jalali. I'm the founder of Salton Stone. Okay. And founder and CEO.
0:03
Yeah, take us, take us back and I'll give some context. So I met Nima recently, moved into. Into my area, and I think we met within like a week of. Of you moving in. And so I haven't. I haven't even gotten like the full story, even though we've been hanging out the last couple weeks.
0:08
Cool.
0:24
You? Yeah, full story. I was a pro. Yeah, I was a pro snowboarder. I heard you're from Pasadena. Yeah. Is that right?
0:25
Yeah.
0:30
So I'm from La Canada.
0:30
No way.
0:31
Yeah.
0:32
That's awesome.
0:32
And so grew up there, was obsessed with skateboarding, and then got into snowboarding and started going to those local mountains.
0:32
Right.
0:38
Mountain high Big Bear.
0:38
No, like Mount Waterman. And it used to be called Kraka Ridge.
0:39
Sure.
0:43
Have you heard of that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so back in the day, you know, when I was in high school, we had, you know, El Nino winters.
0:43
Yeah.
0:49
Like a ton of snow. And they would actually operate. They don't operate anymore. Yeah. And so I just. I would just get out of school at 12 every day and go up there five days a week. Yeah. And I got good and went off and turned into a pro snowboarder.
0:49
What does that mean? Does that mean, like speed competitions, trick competitions? What are you doing? Because there are. There are multiple. There are multiple ways to become a professional snowboarder. Correct.
1:01
More like freestyle.
1:11
Yeah. So there's. There's, there's basically like two paths. There's like, think like lifestyle guy, just like going around making movies all the time.
1:12
Okay.
1:19
And. And then there's like the competition track and there's some crossover, but generally there's like, you have sponsors in both departments, but one person is focused on like, winning contests, going to the Olympics, going to the X Games, doing things like that. Then there's the. More like guys that might do backcountry or street or park, but they're focused on producing, like, parts basically.
1:20
Got it.
1:43
I didn't know you knew so much about it.
1:43
I know a lot.
1:45
Yeah. So I wasn't the contest guy. I was more in movies and in magazine.
1:46
Oh, cool.
1:50
Yeah. Okay. So I went off and did that. How long were you doing that pro for? About 10 years. From about. From about 20 to 30.
1:50
That's awesome.
1:58
Yeah. Yeah, it was amazing. I mean, that was like my college.
1:59
Yeah. That must be so much fun.
2:01
Yeah, it was fun.
2:02
What is the. What I feel like entrepreneurs can probably resonate with what like a pro snowboarder is doing, where your job is to basically produce, right? Like a banger part a season, potentially multiple. And there's like this prep where you're basically like part like that's like a five minute video that might be released independently or as part of an entire movie.
2:03
Okay.
2:27
And so your job is to do enough tricks.
2:28
Yeah, yeah.
2:30
Stomp them. Yeah. As Nemo would probably stop.
2:31
It's a lot. Yeah, it's a. There's a lot. I mean there's, there's like you pick out a song you, you know, that you want to have in your part. There's first part and then the most prestigious is being in the la. The last part, you know, in the video. Like everyone. So it's like you got this video and everyone's supposed to be on the same like kind of like to make this best video. There's like probably 10 snowboarders going after and doing it. But there's a little competition within that because everybody wants to get last part. You know what I mean? And so it's not a team sport. You know, you're really out for yourself. And like there are a lot of lessons that you learn, especially growing up skateboarding, you know, where it's like fail, fail, fail, fail. Like trying to like learning how to kickflip. Takes you six months of just failing and then, and then you figure it out. And so yeah, then the other, the
2:33
other thing is these parts come together. It might be like four or five minutes, right? It's just one trick after another. But you're missing. Sometimes they'll include it, but they're missing like the blooper reel, which is like sometimes you have to fall really, really hard 20 times in a row to land the one that you make it look easy and that gets cut out. So I feel like there's so many, there's so many lessons out of that. You know, a lot of successful entrepreneurs would have, would have, you know, failed miserably for years. And then they have that breakthrough kind of like product or feature, whatever it is. And snowboarding, it's happening on like a day to day basis where you have like one season, right, to put together your part and you're kind of like racing against mother nature in some sense.
3:18
Can you chase the winter into the southern hemisphere effectively?
4:02
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
4:08
So you would be. How many days would you actually be snowboarding? Over a year.
4:09
I mean five days a week. I Ended up. I would live. I lived in Tahoe, Mammoth, Utah, and all that. But I ended up landing in Big Bear just because it was like, the weather's always good for. If you want to just snowboard every day and train. The weather's always sunny and nice and it's not, like, icy or cold. So I would just go there and snowboard every day and then fly out of LAX to wherever I needed to go.
4:12
Big Bear is like, basically one lift that you're just going around and around. And there's the best snowboard, 50 features you can hit on one. So you, like, go. And you might be hiking, like, a little bit on one feature, but you're basically lapping it. So people that don't like park go there and they're like, this is the worst mountain ever. If you're used to skiing in Mammoth, Tahoe, or Colorado. But if you just want to ride, park Big Bears and crowd journey, we're
4:35
going to have to go, man.
5:00
I know, I know. No, I went through. I did almost like 50 days, I think, my junior year of college. A lot a Big Bear. I would just go up and lap the park.
5:01
Nice.
5:11
A lot of good memories.
5:12
Yeah. So it's a project. It's a project that you're. What's that?
5:12
Where do you ski in the summer? Southern Hemisphere. If it's. If it's summer here, I imagine that even Big Bear, there's no snow. And so you have to go to the Southern Hemisphere.
5:15
The only time I snowboarded in the summer was going to Mount Hood where it was like, there's a glacier. Okay. Do you know about that?
5:23
It's still snow. I don't.
5:29
There's still snow. So it's. It's in Mount Hood and they have, like, the summer camp.
5:30
Okay.
5:34
And so all these kids go, and a lot of pros go and stuff, but honestly, during the summer, I would just skate. I would skateboard.
5:34
Okay.
5:39
Yeah.
5:40
Okay.
5:41
Okay. So the reason you're here is because you built Salton Stone over the last eight years. Exit partially exited this week. I don't know. I don't know which. I know the numbers. I don't know what numbers you're. You're disclosing, but. But, yeah, take us through what. What was the transition like? I'm assuming you didn't just, like, retire and immediately start salt and stone, or was it effectively instantly?
5:41
So I had a couple ventures within that industry, like the surf, skate, snow world. And then, you know, salt and stone was this idea that I had had
6:07
and which is like, I don't know if you can give any context on that, but like, brutal industry. Because every single pro and everybody adjacent also wants to start ventures within the industry.
6:17
Yeah, yeah, that's true. And. But I mean, there's just such a ceiling in that, in the world, you know, unless you're like, end up being a Burton or a Quicksilver or something like that. Right.
6:30
Yeah. And even those brands have struggled.
6:39
Totally. So I knew, I knew I wanted to do Salt and Stone and, you know, I wanted to do something on my own, to be honest with you. I had, you know, just, I had business partners and everything and I wanted to just see how far I could go if I just went like, all in, 100%, like not have to, you know, worry about waking up at 2 in the morning and doing, you know, emails and just, just going so hard and just, I could justify that if it's just like all me and I' just like going for it. And so. Yeah. And so transitioned over to that full time and it's been just a rocket ship, man. It's been such a great. Such a great.
6:40
Yeah, you guys did 165 million last year, scaling still. What was the first product?
7:12
The first product was sunscreen, actually. Yeah. So sunscreen, which again is like a
7:19
brute, I would say, like, from my perspective, sunscreen is like a brutal category because, like, a lot of people use it throughout the year, but like, much fewer people actually are using it enough to need to even be on a subscription. And then oftentimes you're buying it just in a random hotel retail store because you're on vacation anyways. But how did that go?
7:23
Yeah, I always wanted to do deodorant and sunscreen was the. It just happened faster as far as searching for the perfect chemist, contract manufacturer and all that stuff to bring it to life. And so sunscreen came out. The brand was profitable from day one. And then when we launched deodorant, how did you sell?
7:46
Were you just selling it D2C or
8:02
so we had some retail on day one. So I had retailers lined up. We had, I think, about 40 to 50 of them. And so as soon as we were shipping orders, we were collecting payment. And so, you know, I funded it out of my own pocket to start, but was able to pay myself back pretty quickly. And, you know, were those 40 or
8:04
50 stores, were those individual stores or chains?
8:23
They were individual stores. Individual stores, yeah. Yeah. And then it was when we launched deodorant was really when it, you know, stores started Coming to us. Yeah.
8:27
What's the, what are the economics of like getting one sunscreen product sounds like one SKU into one of those stores? Are they buying like a hundred dollar box?
8:35
There was a minute, there's a minimum, you know, like an act. From my memory, I think it was like a case pack of 12 sunscreens, came out to like 300 bucks.
8:45
Okay.
8:52
Yeah, yeah.
8:52
And then you can sell it at a markup and.
8:53
Yes, rp. That's right.
8:54
Okay.
8:56
That's right.
8:56
How, how quickly did you realize that like my experience, having invested in CPG over the years is the number one, the number one factor that leads to success is not like operational excellence. It's not always just the team, it's just like how good is the product? And I've seen a lot of like exceptional teams that have like all the operational chops, that have all the experience come out with a product that might be fine or pretty good, but they just don't go anywhere. They can never reach escape velocity because the product fundamentally like doesn't really sell itself. Like you can sell, it might cost a lot to acquire customers. The sell through is not that great. Retailers don't really love it. And when I first tried your deodorant, after trying probably like 20 different like better for you deodorants, I was like, wow, this product is like incredible. And I've like retained across years, even though I, I don't even know that I've. I maybe bought it on the website once, maybe bought it on different stores online or I just buy it in the grocery store. But I'm like permanently retained because I tried everything else and this is just the best. It like goes on well, it smells good. And so I was just like sold off of that. And you didn't need to be like the best at like email marketing to me or like have the best like retention flows because I was just like, it's a good product. I've tried everything else. And so I'm wondering like how you, how quickly you realize that from like a product development standpoint, how much of like what is your ethos around product development? When is a product ready to actually go to market versus just still in that kind of testing phase.
8:57
Yeah, that's why we launched sunscreen before deodorant because we were just trying, trying to get everything perfect right. And so we did something in deodorant that hadn't been done before, especially in clean deodorant. You know, whereas deodorants before didn't smell the way I wanted to. Right. Like, they weren't. They didn't have these sophisticated scents and clean deodorants didn't work or they weren't really like a pleasurable experience to use. And they certainly didn't look good.
10:37
Like they'd be like mint.
11:00
Yeah.
11:02
Like, I don't want to smell like toothpaste.
11:03
Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like, you know, why shouldn't it smell as good as your perfume or cologne? Right? And so just hitting it on all cylinders and making sure it's, you know, perfect. And for me, I was really making it for myself. Right. Like, what do I want? And it turns out what I wanted was what everybody else wanted. So.
11:04
Yeah. Did the company ever almost die?
11:20
No. This story, it's been a. It's been a dream come true. Right.
11:24
Man,
11:30
it's been fun.
11:32
You're. It's so funny because. Because like the, the classic philosophy and like, yeah, we almost. This time and in talking to you, like getting to know you, just, just recently, it just kind of seemed like it was just like permanently up, up into the Right. And you told me one story that was like, not like kind of annoying around on the, on the capital side, but nothing that was like. It didn't feel like you experienced that much hardship. Just one shot. It. Entrepreneurship. And it's so crazy because I know, I know so many. You started the company at like the peak of the D2C boom. Like, this was the time. This was 2017, right. And so this was the time that like everyone was like, like Red Antler, Gin Lane. We're just pumping out brands. So much capital flowing. There was competitors. There was like a. Yeah, there was a school on the east Coast. I forgot. I forget the name of it, but they had like an MBA program that was like every single. Not Harvard. It was one.
11:33
No, there were a lot of. There were a lot of MBAs that were.
12:36
Yeah, there was like every person in an MBA program would be like, I'm building a D2C brand. And they were just picking and there
12:38
were some really good outcomes that people were tracking against like Dollar Shave Club and Harry's. And there were a number of companies where it was like, oh, they did Warby Parker, they raised money, they did the VC playbook, and it sort of penciled out for everyone. But then later people realized like, oh, those were more like one off exceptions to the rule where you get a unilever who gets excited and buys a dollar Shave Club for a billion dollars and maybe doesn't wind up realizing a billion dollars of value. Because it's just.
12:44
Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's. I feel like it's just the power of. Of a founder who's just going to be relentless and go up against the big guys. Right. Because I interview people from the big guys all the time. And I'm shocked at, like, how sleepy some organizations are. Right. And so if you even have a team of three people that are just relentless and you guys know from, like, what you guys do, it's like you can't compete with that. I don't care how much money you have or what incubator you're in or what VC starting you.
13:12
It's.
13:40
If you have a founder who's just going to be relentless.
13:40
And how did the approach to funding evolve? Because you said you were, like, profitable from day one. You did raise at a couple different points a little bit of money, but did you care about maintaining profitability? Or did you ever go through periods of growth where you thought, okay, we can burn a little bit here to get to the next stage?
13:42
We've always been profitable. That's always been important. Right. I just want to make sure the bank balance is growing. The raises were secondary. Right. It was me sort of taking chips off the table. The business has just been so profitable that we didn't really need to inject it with money. And so it's a healthy business. Man, I'm blessed.
14:04
Venture capital, not really my cup of tea.
14:23
It's so crazy. I mean, it just goes back to, you guys nailed so many different elements of the product, and yet I know people that started deodorant brands during that same period that just didn't. They just didn't. Didn't go anywhere.
14:29
What was the early team like?
14:43
The early team?
14:44
Yeah.
14:45
So you have the idea solo founder, but. And you mentioned co packer. Did you work with a formulator? Do you hire a salesperson first? Operations manager, somebody just to help you. Personal assistant. Like, what was the stack?
14:46
Yeah. So first two, first three years was myself. Just myself. Right. And then for that, it was really working with contract manufacturers, chemists, but also, you know, bouncing off my internal network on, like, hey, I got this deodorant sample. Like, people I trusted their taste and what. You know, here's the goal. This is what I'm trying to achieve here. Like, let's. Let's test it.
14:58
Yeah.
15:20
So. So that myself, you know, my wife, like, constantly, we're smelling each other's underarms, you know, Is it working in the lab? Yeah. You know, it was just Relentless, man. It was like we, we know what we want in a product. We see what else is out there. We have all the other products on our shelf. Right. Like to see, see what, what they're like, let's make something better. Yeah, right. And so, and then three years in, I hired, I hired somebody who really took on all the ops, all that stuff off my plate. That's not where I excel. Ops and like finance and like all that, I'm more brand, product, anything the customer sees. That's what, what I love. And so when she took all that and she really excels at that stuff. And it was me and her for like three years, four years after that.
15:21
Wow.
16:00
Or like, like two, three years after that.
16:01
Just a couple people.
16:04
20, 22. And you're still two people?
16:05
No, 20, 19.
16:09
No, it was like. Yeah, sorry, 29 years or. Yeah, three years.
16:10
Three years with two people and six years.
16:14
No. Then we, yesterday, then we start hiring. So she came on board and, and it really, I saw how it would really excel the business and I got to focus on what I like to do. She came in and crushed it way better than I could do on the other stuff. 3 PL logistics, all that stuff. And then I saw power of team. And then from there we just started hiring people. Hiring people. And then, and then just got the confidence to keep hiring, you know, because the more we hired, you know, we hired the right people. Then the business kept growing and growing and growing. And then all of a sudden it's 166 and we're the best selling deodorant on Amazon.
16:16
How big is the team now?
16:43
50, 55.
16:45
It's still really tight.
16:46
It's really tight. We have a high bar for who we bring in. Like it's, you know, we'll interview people and I'll know within five minutes.
16:47
Like, are you in the office or remote?
16:53
No office. All remote. All rem.
16:55
This is like the most insane, the most insane story. It's like most, most of the time you get to this moment just like the most battle scarred founder telling you, man, we're blessed.
17:02
It's been a fun.
17:15
Okay, so walk me through the product portfolio expansion, how that happens and then are you subdividing sales reps by region or vertical or channel?
17:16
We don't have sales reps. You don't have sales rep.
17:29
Sales reps. Never heard of.
17:35
So here's, here's, here's the thing. Like you got to create a brand that the retailer wants.
17:36
Yeah.
17:41
Right. You don't want to go and Just like push something down a retailer's throat and have your sales guy knocking on the door and stuff. And that was it. Like really focusing. Like this wasn't all just like, oh, it's just happening, it's happening. It's like an obsession.
17:41
Right.
17:52
Like I got, I turned into an advertising expert. For six months all I did was want us to have the best ads, the best digital presence. Right. And like create a brand that the retailers needed to have. Right. And then from there then those retailers need to have you. What was that knocking on the door?
17:52
What was that advertising process like? Were you looking, were you reading Ogilvy? Looking at the grades?
18:08
It's just looking at everything, at all the competitors.
18:12
Yeah.
18:15
Seeing how they do. Right. And really it's like not looking at the other indie brands, like looking at the big brands. Sure. Like I've always want to take inspiration from the brands like, like the Nikes of the world that are going to be here in 100 years. Because that's what I want this brand to be.
18:15
Right.
18:27
I don't want. This isn't some like influencer brand. I'm not an influencer. Right. I'm not in front of the camera. Like this is something that I want to be a legacy brand that's here long after I'm gone. So those are, those are the brands I look at for inspiration.
18:27
And then how are you actually instantiating your learnings? Like are you directing photo shoots? Are you casting models? Are you writing copy? No, no. Once you go through that, that six month brand exercise, you become the expert. Are you, are you like, you know, taking a project, a brand project from start to finish or are you picking an agency or hiring people?
18:39
It was, it was start to finish. So there was a time where I was picking out models, picking out photographers, videographers, helping with the edit, like all that stuff. The edits here and then go in. Yeah, yeah. And if they're static, like still photos, I would go in figma, drop text overlay, figure out what to say, like all that stuff. And yeah, I mean I just threw everything and all I did. I gave up all, like everything. All my hobbies, like snowboarding, skateboarding, like all that stuff. Like I got into golf for a second. All of it ended like it was just. I'm gonna go in on this. But like when you get a signal that the thing is working great. Yeah. Then you want.
19:00
Because the bank balance is going up.
19:33
Bank balance is going up. You're having fun. It's like really your purpose. It's Just like nothing else. I want, like, I want to build. I want to build it.
19:35
Yeah.
19:42
What do you think about international expansion?
19:42
What do I think about it?
19:44
Yeah. How has your thinking evolved? What's the strategy? Is that something that a lot of companies go through this moment where they're like, maybe it's so operationally complex, it'll change the business. So let's put it off. Let's maybe wait until we're at a point where we can team up with a bigger company and through a merger acquisition and let them bring their operational force so that you don't need, you know, a person in every locality because they will bring that to bear and you're set up for success.
19:45
Yeah, no. So we've already expanded internationally and as I expected, Sephora Canada, Sephora uk, facing K in the uk, Sephora Europe, we just launched Middle East, Southeast Asia, so on. So on. That being said, there's a lot of, A lot more opportunity and that's one of the reasons I chose Advent to be, to be the, the partner here is because they have a strong expertise in international and I feel really great about them. I mean, look, my, my goal was never to just exit out fully and just put it in somebody's hands and let it go to shit. Like, that's not what I want. Yeah. I want the brand to. I want, I want my grandkids to look at this thing and be like, oh, yeah, that's what my grandfather built. You know, I want it to be around. I want it to be, you know, what it was always meant to be and not turn into some, you know, discount brand.
20:13
So, yeah, what, what was the. How many did you have a bunch of opportunities to sell prior, Prior to this moment? I'm assuming people were just like kind of seeing public metrics and sell through and all these things and hounding you at different points. What was the process of like, knowing when the time was, was right?
20:56
We had a lot of private equity reaching out, a lot of people reaching out in general. And so I worked with Raymond James, who I love, and I would just forward it to them and they told me when it was time and it was like, let's go, let's go explore. Let's go explore the market. Yeah. Yeah.
21:15
So this was not a story where you met your acquirer, like years and years ago.
21:29
We've been talking for, about, you know, for several months, six plus months, you know, and I really, really like them, you know, and for me, it's when I did the deal with humble growth two years ago, we had 15 private equity funds to choose from and I like them because of who they. No, we had a lot, we had a lot of bidders.
21:34
No, no. You know how if you were looking for the hero's journey of founder stories, this isn't it.
21:55
You can turn it off.
22:06
I mean, it is in a way, it's missing some plot points. Yeah.
22:07
There's a lot more to it. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, it's just choosing good people to work with. Right. People who can do it with integrity. And I want to work with and that like are aligned vision wise on like what the brand is going to be in the future. And let's go build that together.
22:11
Yeah.
22:26
What, what advice have you been giving to people that want to follow in your footsteps? That this is like kind of what I feel like every CPG founder imagines is just like, yeah, I'm going to be building for like eight years and I'm going to sell for, you know, half a billion to a billion to a strategic. And yet, you know, the hit rate is obviously, you know, something probably like, you know, 1, 1%.
22:28
Right.
22:52
And over the last year there's, I feel like there's actually been a dip in new, new brand formation. At least that's what Sean Frank. Sean Frank was, was, was I think mentioning on a, on I think at the end of last year and his point of view, he's a founder or the CEO of Ridge and he's like, okay, in two years are people going to want new brands to choose from? And his point of view is like 100% right. Like there's constantly a desire for newness and that kind of founder led product development approach that made Salton Stone what it is today. So. Yeah, what, what advice are you giving?
22:53
I mean, honestly, like I didn't read any entrepreneurial books or really listen to any like entrepreneurial podcasts or anything until recently. I just went off instinct. Like, you gotta fight. We're fighting for our life. My advice would be, would be to go all in. Like, you can't, you can't go and be like, work, life, balance and like I want to, you know, check out at 5 because like there's gonna be someone right behind you that's gonna come and take, take your place and be that brand that comes in and does what you want to do. If you're going to just chill.
23:33
Yeah.
23:58
So it's like you got to, you got to make sure you love it. You love it because that's the way you're going to Be able to do it, you know, basically around the clock from the moment you go to sleep to wake up, you know, it's. It's something you got to love to do, and it's got to be your passion. Right? And so you got to just. Just go relentlessly and. No, I would say, like, forget the work, life balance stuff. You just got to go hard. You got to go all in and just use your instincts. You know, you just gotta. You gotta be competitive and go after the big guys and don't be afraid and just go. You got to go for it. Go all in. Yeah.
23:59
I like the focus on. On the actual incumbents. Like, a lot of people will focus too much on, like, okay, who are the other new brands in my category? And just actually studying, like, okay, what. What makes the big players actually successful? It's like, okay, massive retail distribution. Like, actual, like, IP on the product side. All. All these things.
24:27
Yeah. I mean, for us, it feels like in beauty, there was such a playbook. Like, every brand looked the same, all the content was the same. It was like, pay the influencer, have the influencer talk about the product, post it on your social, like, over and over again. And that's the playbook. And I didn't want to. I didn't even know anything about beauty, really. Like, I'm not. I don't come a skateboarder. You know, I don't come from beauty. I like fashion brands. I like, you know, lifestyle brands. And so coming in and just being inspired by, you know, the Nikes of the world, the big brands, instead of looking at beauty, I think played in our favorite because we came out and it was like, oh, this is different,
24:46
you know, did you do any, like, community marketing? Because sometimes there's a brand that I love. Let's. Maybe it's like, I would say, like, if a deodorant brand was putting together an event, I don't think I'd be like, I want to. I gotta be there. But did you. Did you do anything that, like, worked, that broke through, that, like, was material to the business? Because I feel like sometimes it's very distracting for CBG brands to, like, do IRL marketing early on, Because I'm like, I usually will ask a founder, like, okay, how many units have you sold in the last month? And they're like, a thousand. Like, okay, then don't spend $30,000 on, like, some activation. Like, you should just, like, make a product that actually sells well and then you'll have opportunities to do things.
25:19
Yeah. I mean, early on, that was my philosophy too. It's like, why are you gonna go waste money on something that you don't know is gonna move the needle? So it's like spend it. Like if our ads are going well, let's just pour more money into that versus like doing some pop ups somewhere. But now we're at the point where those IRL pop ups, it's, I think it's good, it's good brand building, you know, and so we do that now. We do pop ups.
26:02
Yeah, but pop ups are, I would say different than like a lifestyle event that is just like a bunch of people hanging out.
26:21
Yeah.
26:27
What about owned retail, like flagship store? Have you looked at that?
26:28
We're looking into it. So yeah, yeah. So. So we're looking at, we're looking right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:30
So I mean it says a lot that you didn't jump into that in year two, for example.
26:35
Yeah, I mean it's, you know, it would be tough to do that and maintain profitability.
26:39
Right.
26:42
And so it's like you're fighting for your life. You want to make sure it's profitable.
26:43
Yeah. It's balancing act. Like you need enough awareness that you're actually going to get upside. But then if you have complete awareness, it's probably like you're already stocked everywhere. So it needs to be in the sweet spot.
26:46
Yeah, makes sense. Interesting.
26:56
Such an amazing story. Honestly, it's like, it's like a very unique. It's amazing because it's like, like it's exactly what people set out to do. And yet it's so uncommon to just like go up into the. Up into the right every month. It's very refreshing.
26:59
It's like work hard and don't get caught up in a bunch of stuff that doesn't matter. Stuff that doesn't matter.
27:14
Do the things that matter. Right.
27:21
And John, you're gonna be relieved. He's now a David Senra enjoyer.
27:22
Oh, really?
27:25
Love his podcast.
27:26
He's fantastic. So he's getting to enjoy David Senra after climbing the mountain.
27:27
That's amazing.
27:32
That's funny. I hear that. It's like I hear the hustle stuff and like you gotta do this and you gotta go all in. And I'm like, I naturally kind of do that. You know, it makes me.
27:32
It works.
27:41
But even. Yeah, I mean, David talks about this a lot where like, even, like a lot of his audience members are not listening to it and saying, oh, I never considered working hard. They're saying, like, it's a reminder. It's a meditation on their current philosophy. And then it's a bunch of other examples and just confidence to continue being different. Because there's a lot of people as simple as like, as like focus is. There's a lot of people that feel pressure to continue their golf.
27:42
You have this super complicated seven part
28:10
strategy that, that and then also just like the work life balance thing, like there's a lot of pressure to not be that person who's not. Who's. Who's turning down invites to the golf trip. And that's. And, and so the founders podcast definitely like reinvigorates you to like add more confidence that you're not crazy. You're not the only person doing this on earth.
28:12
100%. Yeah. I love his passion.
28:31
It's great.
28:33
I'm going to introduce you guys. You guys are going to have a lot of fun.
28:34
This will be great.
28:36
Brand wise though, we are just getting started, honestly, things like that. And this partnership is exciting and can't wait to keep building this thing.
28:38
Yeah.
28:44
Amazing, dude.
28:44
Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time to come shop.
28:45
See you back at the ranch.
28:50