Bob Odenkirk on Saul Goodman, Chris Farley and his new movie "Normal"

Our next guest has spent a lifetime in the comedy trenches. He's written for Saturday Night Live He's kissed elephant asses. He turned Charles Manson into lassie and helped give the world the greatest motivational speaker of all time. It's all good men. He survived the widowmaker He stepped on the Broadway and somehow now he's an action hero and his new film normal Let's welcome in a man traveling through life on an open journey with no itinerary the great Bob Odin Kirk Hey Bob, what's up? Hey Gentry Not much thanks for that great intro that was awesome. Oh man, it's great You collapsed my 30 years in showbiz and really well in 15 seconds We we capped it up. I watched the movie last night normal You got to be handy with the steel if you know what I mean. It seems like it in this movie. How many Guns have you shot before this film? You know before I started making movies action movies, I only used a rifle in Boy scouts My dad had a pistol, but we we only looked at it. It was not well Maintained You know how it is in the clothes drawer next to the socks But other than that I just used a rifle and boy scouts and until then Then till years later and and preparing for the movie nobody then I went to the To the gun range and used a bunch of different Different guns and in this film normal I get to pick up a bunch of guns and shoot them off. It's a lot of fun I have fun doing it. You looked like a like a natural How many people died in this movie because as I was walking keep count we lost count But yeah a lot especially because I'm shooting a grenade launcher The new film is now streaming wherever you stream your movies and it's also starring the Fonz Henry Winkler who normally is the salt of the earth guy, but he's a little shady It seems like in this one. It's lead in this one. That's right He's our best mislead ever and we were gonna get a bad guy a bad bad guy and Then the casting director said what about Henry Winkler and we all realized what a perfect Mislead that was because we all love Henry as a person and as a screen presence but he's an actor people forget the guy can really act and In this role. He is very duplicitous to say the least he's he's actually frightening and He's threatening you could say and and he gets his comeuppance I heard you say something interesting in an interview that I watched that a lot of people when they come up To you they know you from Breaking Bad or they know you from Better Call Saul But the people who who know how you see the world they've seen mr. Show So I'm curious. How does mr. Show see the world? You know What's the Shakespeare line a tempest a It's it's nonsense. It's silly. It's it's a it's a lot of fighting over Nothing, you know I think I think I see it as a place where the adults are are short-sighted and All fired up over the wrong things It's definitely anything but normal and we're here with Bob Odin Kirk You know him from Better Call Saul Breaking Bad mr. Show and now the new film normal Which is available now on demand and digitally. I meant to songwriting Bob I love playing the guitar and writing a song putting together the hook and the pieces and so I know how to structure a song But I've never like written a sketch especially one that's legendary like Matt Foley. Is it similar to writing a song? What's the process? I've never tried to write a song. I Think there are probably some things that are similar for instance You know, yeah, by the way, have you heard have you ever heard the song Galveston by Jimmy Webb? I have not but I'm familiar with the town Galveston check out that song Galveston by Jimmy Webb That's a surprise. It's a brilliant song. It's heartbreaking. It's a it's a Look what he does with the imagery and look at how he jumps from one scene to another Abruptly and and yet they all form a picture. It's it's really shocking He he just leaps across the world and through time Like every like four lines becomes a different place and yet it's all from one person's voice and it's really beautiful I don't think you can do that in Sketch comedy sketch but there the similarities would be you have a short time sequence to work with you know three to five minutes and and some songs can be even shorter than that and And then you want to set something up and you want to at some point you you kind of want to turn it inside out if you can but of course every song is different, you know because You can have a song that just dwells in one feeling I think and just stays there and doesn't try to take a journey too much but Yeah, I haven't thought about songwriting that much but It's working with that compact time period and what I love about that is you can get a Perspective on humanity on life and and and I think you get more perspective by just isolating a small Sequence of time and seeing life through that That sketch that you wrote that I've heard you say is your favorite the the motivational speaker with Matt Foley What was that process like was that something that like a hit song? I had my friend Chris Farley and I were doing the second city show and he had done a Coach character doing an anti-drug rally and he had done these you know swaggery guy and I had also been listening to Tony Robbins and I had the idea of a motivational speaker who uses himself as a bad example of where you don't want to be and so I just married it up with Chris's coach performance and I had grown up in a town called Naperville we had a river called the DuPage River and a Bunch of people would hang out down by the river every day. I wouldn't call them losers, but they weren't I Wouldn't I'm not sure they were winning so I put those images together and formed this guy and Because I'd done so much writing at that point that was after my third year at Saturday night live and I'd been watching the great writers of my era Jack handy Jim Downey Robert Smigel Al Franken I had been watching them work and I'd been learning through osmosis Which is one of the great ways to learn? Everyone learns different ways, but I would say as a songwriter Obviously you've probably done this If you can get in any of those songwriting groups I know in Nashville they have a lot of songwriting groups where people meet up and they share their most recent songs You can learn a lot from watching another person's struggle to do what you're trying to do and And you can learn a lot from watching someone who's good at it do it well in front of you When you see them do it your brain goes at the same time it goes Wow, that's amazing and it goes oh, I see what you did there and And it really can be a shortcut to learning how to do anything hard and creative Is to sit near a person who's doing it and watch them do it So I had had three years of that when I sat down to write the motivational speaker And I wrote it just the way it's done which is also a rarity You know, I'm sure a lot of songwriting you do changes you make changes over time But sometimes something comes out just perfect and I've had that happen a few times not too many times But a few times one of them was the motivational speaker sketch and failure I think is a big part of it, too You got to kind of fall forward in a sense. Yeah, I mean I learned more from watching Someone do it well or seeing or taking apart something that's done well and going I see I see what you did there I only learned from failure when I watch you fix it in other words. I can't just sit there and look at Failure and get a lot out of it. I don't think I can get a lot out of my own failure, but But watching someone do it right It it's it's my greatest motivator it motivates me more to sit down and suck is To watch something great and go like I want to do that and then sit down and suck I get more out of watching someone do it, right? The new movie does not suck. It will keep you on the edge of your seat There's fingers being cut off. There's brains being blown all over the place Who would have thought Bob Odin Kirk would be so handy with a gun? He's starring in the new action thriller normal It's available now on demand and digitally wherever you watch your movies my son biggest breaking bad and Better call Saul fan of all time I'm thinking because he lost his mind when I knew he knew that you were coming coming on the show and That character Jimmy McGill and he has a gift. There's something in that character that people just fall in love with What do you think that that gift is that people connect so well with that character? Saul Goodman is a Vince Gilligan who created the shows breaking bad and better call Saul and now he's created Pluribus, which is a great TV show He always said people like Jimmy because they like to see somebody who's good at something Anything and people watch anything where the person's good and if you're on Instagram or you're on YouTube You know there's people who just do something well and they just put that on and And people sit and watch it Now I kind of disagree with Vince because I don't think Jimmy's Figured out what he's good at and I think one reason people like Jimmy McGill and Saul Goodman is His journey is more relatable than a lot of characters that we see He is trying to find his place in his world and he knows that he's good at something, but he's not exactly sure what it is and I think people relate to that That journey that challenge of you know, we hear stories about people who are great at a young age and Know who they are and become famous and great at what they do But the more common story is the person who enters their 30s With only a sense of what they're good at and then they slowly get better and better into their 40s And that's Jimmy's story. That's Saul Goodman story. He he has a sense of what he can do He knows that it's something to do with logic and has something to do with reading other people it has something to do with speaking and weaving a spell with his words and And yet he can't find the best place for it where he gets the most reward From the world and not just money reward. He wants respect All right, there's a new sheriff in town Ulysses and normal go stream it go watch it. It's available now. Hey Bob Thanks for your time go Cubs go. Thanks, buddy. Yeah, I bought the last two games. They were great