The duality of this cycle's coaching hires, and the moves still to come, with Jourdan Rodrigue

This Tuesday, ours and brings the unmissable UEFA Champions League match. Unbelievable! Manchester City vs. Real Madrid. What a strike! Absolutely incredible! The UEFA Champions League, Tuesday from 6.30pm, it's on pride. Tired of the, I know it's here somewhere, moment. The new Scansnap Ix 2400 Scanner means you'll never search for a receipt again. Our simplest Scansnap experience yet. Just press the blue button and instantly convert documents into digital files you can find in seconds. Perfect for busy professionals who need organisation without complexity. With instant one-touch scanning, 45 pages per minute speed, and automatic data extraction, the Ix 2400 saves your files exactly where you need them. No more mystic spence claims or lost warranties. Just peace of mind knowing everything important is safe and instantly accessible. Ready to stop wasting time hunting for paperwork? Visit Scansnapit.com slash podcast and discover how simple document management can be. Scansnap. The smarter way to work. Here's the new Citroen C3 Aircross, the perfect SUV for bears and lovers of the great outdoors. Sure, and comfort too. Inside it easily goes from 5 to 7 seats and for you cubs, look, it's got Apple CarPlay and your favourite apps. Yes, Mr. Grizzly available in petrol for electric or hybrid. So ready for a family adventure? The new Citroen C3 Aircross, the lovers of the wilderness and everyday comfort. Now with a £1,500 electric car grant. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Stick in with the coaching carousel on the midweek show this week. Nothing else we could do. So much stuff has happened over the last seven days. I mean, there are coaching hires that we haven't even hit on the show. Kevin's to Fansky, Robert Solow going to the Titans. So Jordan Rodriguez joined me today to run through the hires that have happened. And for those, we played something of a little game where I wanted to look at recent success stories and kind of align with the archetype of that coach and the coach that these teams hired and recent failures. You know, when, what is the best case scenario for this based on some recent examples and what is the worst case? So we did that for all four of the hires that have already happened. And then for the jobs that are open, we also kind of gamified it a little bit. We went through each of the jobs and talked about what they are, what they are not. And when you consider both of those things, who is the right person to get these jobs at the end of the day? Really enjoyed this conversation with Jordan. Let's get to it right now. Joining us today, a senior writer at the athletic also a member of the NFL daily podcast team. It's our old friend Jordan Roderay. Jordan, how you doing? Hi, Robert. I'm good. I was just in your city. I loved it, but also almost died from windshield. No exaggeration, nothing dramatic. Now I'm soft and back in LA. So how are you? I spent five years in Los Angeles and I can't tell you how long it took me to get to a place where I was fine being outside in Chicago in the winter. So the fact that you parachuted in for a weekend and couldn't handle it, it says nothing about you. I want you to know that. Thank you. I really needed to hear that actually. We're spending today scooping up more of the coaching news. We do show every day and I still, there's still aren't enough shows to like get in everything that we want to talk about because of how crazy the news cycle has been. So we haven't even talked about things like this chemistry fans could go into Atlanta, the Jeff Halfley thing happened on Monday, right as we were finishing up our Monday hangover episode. We were talked about that for about 10 minutes. And so the plan right now is we're going to go through all of these higherings that have happened. And I want to do something specific with them. I want to talk about some recent historical examples or comparisons for how like this sort of archetype that these teams are chasing can work and then cannot work. Just to kind of provide a this is the blue sky version, this is the devil's advocate version. What might we see based on what these teams have done the choices that they've made. So we'll do that for like the three or four higherings that have happened. And then there are also a bunch of jobs that are still open and this is an idea that you have that I think is fun. Just kind of going through these jobs and talking about what they are and what they are not. And then we'll talk about based on some of the candidates that have interviewed who we think right now the best fit for what the job really is should be at the end of this process. So that's how we're going to handle today. I love it. You know I love this stuff. It's such a messy fun time of year Robert and like like you said, it feels like it feels like it's not going to be a lot of fun. It feels like first of all, this is unprecedented. I know you guys have covered it at like in very well on your show, but like this is so unprecedented. And the fact that there have not just been 10 openings, but coordinator movement is happening and all of that. I mean, it's a wild ride. So let's buckle in. Before we start this exercise, just like an example from like what last year would have been right and I go to Ben Johnson because why wouldn't I go to Ben Johnson? In the moment when they were hiring Ben Johnson and you've looked at a person from his background and just the archetype of coach that they were seeking out. I think the different pads there and obviously one is extremely good. Is he going to be closer to what Sean McVeigh has been for the Rams or is he going to be closer to what an Arthur Smith was for the Falcons, right? Which Arthur Smith think did a fine job in Atlanta. It wasn't disaster by any stretch, but obviously those are two different types of success. And so that's what the Ben Johnson would have one would have been last year. And so that's what we're going to do for these four guys that have taken these jobs. Let's start with John Harbott of the Giants. We've talked a little bit about this on a bunch of different shows. I don't think we have to spend as much time on the fact that it actually happened. The bit of news that's worth updating is it seems like right now if he does not get ahead coaching job that Todd Monkin and Anthony Weaver, both of whom are for some of these jobs are the favorites in the clubhouse to be the coordinators, which I don't know how you feel about that. I think that's why I was a Giants fan. I think I'd be pretty satisfied with that being the end point with those guys working with John Harbott, but that seems to be the latest bit of news that matters when it comes to the Giants opening and Harbott getting it. Yeah, and I think Todd Monkin sort of forecasted this also because they had broadcast their loyalty. Some of the reporting that came out before John Harbott was fired or before they mutually parted ways. The loyalty was very clear. Todd Monkin had basically let it be known to other people if wherever he goes, I'm going. We're a package deal here and some of the loyalty that it was reported that John Harbott had toward Todd Monkin during the final days of his tenure there. And I like Anthony Weaver, you know, you know this Robert, we've talked about this. Like I think that's a great, I think that's he's a really great hire and he's head coaching material. So if you can get a guy like that on your staff, that's great. Yeah, it's fun because Todd Monkin, the him and John Harbott and I have to work never work together before the last couple of years. They're not two guys that are like thick as theives going back years and years and years and years. So I actually appreciate the fact that over like a two year period, they've developed this like very strong bond, apparently. All right, let's do this for the John Harbott case for the giants. Who is like a recent success story in the coaching hiring cycle that you can point to and say, all right, this is the positive example of what John Harbott can be for the giants. It sounds crazy, but I would say Mike Rable in this case. Interesting. Okay. I don't think that John Harbott gives you a schematic edge the way that Mike Rable goes. But if this is a best case scenario, the giants in my opinion need infrastructural change at a very basic level of their organization. And I feel like even though they have, you know, the draft and development process where they've selected guys with good traits, they've selected talent, putting it together in a cohesive way as an actual team building an ecosystem. You have flashy pieces, you know, John Harbott had mentioned in his comments that he really liked some of the scouting staff and some of the infrastructure that the that the giants have available to them, some of the technology that they have available to them. He obviously wants to build out a more robust analytics department there. But it's pieces, right. It's all pieces of things that are there. And what Mike Rable did in New England was he dug in and he reset infrastructurely from the from office perspective and also from a team building and roster perspective. What it was going to mean moving forward to be a New England Patriot with respect to the past, but obviously a different, very different new identity in the future. And I think that's what John Harbott in a best case scenario and what the giants certainly hope this is going to happen. They can say all they want about who's in charge and who reports to who and every we're fine. Everything's good. We're going to hold the helmet equally in our press conference. And it's awesome. They can say it all they want. John Harbott is going to dig in there in there in my estimation and should dig in there and turn a bunch of interesting pieces within this organization into an actual team. Thinking about the the structure and the dynamics involved and like how much is going to be on the head coach's plate where like Mike Rable is kind of the figurehead of the Patriots organization even if LA Wolfen charge the personnel department. I think that's a good thing to bring up. Maybe this is just me lacking imagination, but I just look at what Jim Harbott has done for the Charger is like it because it's I was going back to this idea of like all right you're hiring 60 something year old CEO type coach. Like when and how has this worked in the past and it's just like Jim Harbott is this from two years ago. And so I and I think because here's the reason that I go back to it beyond the. The role in the building right where again you're a CEO coach you're not calling off answer defense you are a culture center. But also what you're trying to establish I think the Chargers were really trying to reset what the culture was like in that building and I think that's exactly what the giant with the giants are trying to do. I think what you're trying what you're really shooting for here for the giants is you're trying to establish a certain floor and a certain level of overall competency within the organization. And I think ideally that's what John Harbott gives you in the exact same way that Jim Harbott did over the last couple years in LA. The one thing that I think is important with that sort of higher and I go back to this over and over and over again your coordinators in that higher extremely important and Jesse mentors obviously been hugely important in the Chargers going to play off back to back years the offensive coordinator higher. Two years in they are needed to switch that out because I think the coordinators. Help establish your ceiling as that type of coach help us out helps establish your floor and that's why I think you can make an argument that with Monkin and Anthony weaver like the giants even without the. Quarterback that the Chargers have are set up for success with this type of model so that's the one that I would go to I love it his brother I think but it's perfect because that's exactly your exactly right and it's kind of what I mentioned the giants may not admit that they need this but they need it similar to how the Chargers needed it needed it when they brought Jim Harbott and somebody who is going to take a bunch of pieces of things within an organization and turn it into an identity and that's what Mike Raewell had to do even though the Patriots had the legacy of what you know. Being like a dynastically competent right before but it weren't for a couple of years it's similar it's these personalities of these CEO head coaches who yes for able does give you an edge I think he could call game still if he wanted to but it's it's Jim Harbott being a great example and I think the age thing is a factor here too because you have to you have to know you're making the right decision when you do have coaches who are maybe closer to retirement than they were. When they entered the league and and to have that energy and I think that's another thing that's really important in a great comp between all three of these potential like hey here's the vision board is the energy level because no one is going to accuse Jim Harbott of not having the energy as a CEO head coach no one will accuse Mike Raewell as a CEO head coach. I mean I had having the energy certainly no one will do that with John Harbott it takes a specific brand of insanity to dig into an organization in that way at that level where like I said I don't think the Giants want to admit it but infrastructural change is needed in every phase of that building and I think he's the person that you know obviously they hope can do it similar to how Jim did in Los Angeles. So that's how can go right how can it go wrong what is a recent example of where this couldn't work out if you're the Giants. Yes I think we have the same one so if you don't mind I'll just sort of stop all the letters here but P Carol obviously it's very easy yeah because I mean you're you're hiring a huge name and and someone with charisma and somebody with vision and somebody who has one and somebody who has a clear outline for what he wants and by the way somebody who came in and took control immediately operationally had a significant say in hiring had significant say in the roster construction and all of these things and it was a fiasco and so that's where it can go wrong making a poor decision and then pivoting from it I think is a credit to the the Raiders here doesn't tarnish to me peaked carols overall legacy at all but that is the danger when you do hire I hate this term but like the alpha CEO coach is you're all in on that person and if it goes well then you do get those positive examples. But if it goes the way that it just did in Las Vegas you get absolute disaster in fighting chaos nepotism the whole gamut. And I think with this sort of hire in this sort of approach you're shooting for a floor you can always fall short of that right like the floor can always fall out and that's the problem and I think that's a reasonable criticism of a hire like this is that you can make an argument that if you're not going for the play call or that's going to make sure you're maximizing one side of the ball that you can do it. And then you're going to have to go to the other side of the ball that you are kind of shooting for the middle like John harboh had Lamar Jackson for years and years and years like though that type of quarterback being paired with the CEO coach is incredibly important for the success of those types of coaches and so it's possible that you end up with a coaching staff here that simply raises the level of competency but doesn't raise the overall ceiling. First part doesn't happen the floor can still fall out of it. And so I think that's a reasonable criticism of a hire like this but I look at the comparison to Jim Harboh it's like if the giants made the playoff see to the next two years even if that ultimately ended up being their ceiling does the John Harboh era become a success I think undeniably yes based on how the last couple years of giants football have gone. I agree and I think it is so much of what we're talking about today and what will continue to talk about you brought it up is. Understanding like the potential of the floor like understanding first of all where your floor currently is and how is this the right person who can actually do the things to raise it I think you could look at hindsight which is so easy to do and look at the Raiders and say well you really needed somebody with who gave you a schematic advantage to work around the roster deficiencies and you needed some of the maybe wasn't going to take such control over pieces of the roster and the coaching staff. This wasn't the case maybe it felt like it because again that charisma man and everyone looks cool and black and silver and all that stuff and but at the same time I think in hindsight so with coaches like Jim and John Harboh having that infrastructure understanding of okay this is where you're at as an organization and these are the things I can do to increase competence becomes really good. Becomes really really important and you know P Carol may have outlined a vision that that they really really liked and believed in at the time but you know it goes sideways fast if you don't if you as the candidate as the coach come in without a real understanding of what that competence level is. Next one here we haven't talked about this I don't think at all on the show because it happened on the during the weekend and we didn't really have time to hit on Monday come as the fans use the new head coach of the Atlanta Falcons. Yeah I just somehow just kind of slip through the cracks we're waiting to do it today just some initial thoughts about this and just talking to people about it this one always it made sense to me as a pairing like as soon as that job came open and knowing I think. How selective he was going to be with the certain jobs that were available this time around his willingness potentially sit out if there wasn't a good job this is I think a good job in a lot of ways I think it's an organization where there's respect for just the way they operate like I don't think it's seen as like a dysfunctional place based on my understanding Matt Ryan and that can go either way right like you bring in somebody like that and that sort of role I think that Matt Ryan was construed as a positive for some coaching candidates heading to Atlanta not a negative and you also have small things like them keeping Jeff Olbrek as the defense of coordinator and that being I think a selling point where that's not oh you're going to be married to this guy was oh we already have a guy in place that I think what has done a good job. And so I just always felt like this one potentially made sense for both Stefansky and the Falcons and so I was not surprised when I saw the news that it actually did get done. Yeah, and you better take the job because otherwise we're making the DC the head coach right so it's like it's kind of one of those things I like it I liked the fit we'll get into obviously the quarterback questions and all of that sounds like Matt Ryan really likes Michael Pennix as well. I was talking to someone recently who had worked in Atlanta for a really long time because I was voicing my I guess sort of Kang Tanker'sness over the fact that this job seemed to be like custom built for Matt Ryan so like why go through the entire show of all of it. And this person kind of set me a little bit straighter I think because it was like someone needs to be able to tell the owner he's full of crap and the only person who can do that when the time may arise to do so is Matt Ryan right and so having that gravitas and presence in the building without and we don't know how it a goal but potentially without being a little bit too interfering and letting the GM that they eventually bring in. And do that work I think having somebody who can be very brutally honest with different facets of that organization could prove to be beneficial it definitely got me thinking maybe this could be a good thing for the Falcons. What is the positive case for how the Kevin's the Fansky higher could work out in Atlanta based on some historical comparisons. Honestly this one gave me some trouble but it's hard it's hard you got to dig back a little bit I have a couple but there's no good one for one yeah so there's no good one for one so I kind of looked at some of the ones that were tricky for me to one to one and I thought who do they want how do they want this to turn out like how would this team in their best case scenario like who would they want this to be and I'm thinking Matt Laflore who they had in their building by the way interesting one point I think they would like this to turn into a Matt. And I think they would like to turn into a Matt Laflore scenario where they're going to take care of the defensive side organizationally it's sort of a team effort and bringing in the people for that but on this point getting the quarterback correct and maximizing the quarterback so they think and building consistency like we can win consistency consistently and that's what we're thinking about right now we're not thinking about what happens next potentially getting you know the on the seven seed for the team. The on the seven seed for example we're not thinking about getting past that we need to figure out how to win and how to maximize a quarterback and I think their best case with Stephanski maybe as a comp with Matt Laflore in that regard I like that I so I went a little bit more specific in terms of like the dynamics that play here like what type of like what his background has looked like because we almost never see this and the bad case I'll point this out we almost never see retread head coaches take a job the very next year. It just doesn't happen very often if you look back at the last 20 years there aren't many examples of it but I we have plenty of retread head coaches that take a year off and then I think have a version of success at that next stop and when I think about how could this go well for Atlanta I look at two retreads that I think had the decent amount of success at that either second or third stop one is Gary kubiak in Denver and one is north turner with the chargers. I love that one which is funny because both of those guys have a lot of like cool connection points as to why it fits that both of them are older when they got these jobs and there's a lot of different things but I I go back to like those two cases is how this could work the main differences. Both of those guys when they got to those jobs north turner head Philip reverse and Gary kubiak had patent manning and so the clarity of quarterback here is very, very different for what the Falcons are dealing with and I have no idea at this stage how this gets sorted out whether Kirk starts the season and they play penics or how tired they are to panic so I think that's probably going to be an ongoing discussion but I think that's the main differentiator but those are the two guys that I landed. I got to get to know where it's like okay if it turned out like this I think the Falcons would probably be pretty happy with the results. Yeah I love that especially with the with the lineage I have for about 10 years been working on my north turner impression I got Kevin I got to get me a call about that senior assistant job so I would you know we might see him pop up in the news for hey senior consultant to the head coach or something like this but yeah and this is what I also love about this is we're reinventing the kubiak system a little bit like the kettle of kubiaks is now populated across the league and and also the Kevin's to fans give self getting a retread opportunity like this revitalizes that system in certain ways and we've seen it in some of these coaching cycles before and I love the possibility of that I love those comps because you kind of. We just don't know what the quarterback but there's there's a person in there that both of those teams in these examples that you use. Maximizing who you do have yes it's you know a holiday talent but. Maximizing who you do have was the onus on making those decisions back for those organizations at the time and it certainly is the same here. Yeah I just think that the level of talent he's going to have independent of the quarterback is just so much better yeah it's been over the last couple years and I think that's the selling point I think. The last thing for coaches that were interested in this job and I think it did you play a role in how attractive it was to some people the division is much more winnable than a lot of the other jobs available like you're going to walk in there and there's a chance you can win the division in your one and I do think that that is appealing to guys as they consider whether to take these gigs and I wouldn't be surprised if it played a role in Kevin's the fanski winding up with the Falcons the case against this working out I have a pretty rough one I don't know where you landed on this. Okay it's super mean it's also Kevin's to fanski like the case for this not working out is also Kevin's to fanski with the Cleveland Browns where to me he sort of lost his voice slash couldn't figure out what his voice was within the couple of year process yeah and and ultimately. All of the promise and optimism by bringing in somebody who like the Falcons think now gives their offense specifically such a competitive edge schematically and in terms of coaching and play calling talent. But then for it to backslides so significantly because of ownership interference because of front office decision making because of a head coach who just sort of went along or seems optically may may not be fair to say but optically just went along with it understanding he didn't have that significant of a say in the matter that's where when you bring in you know Arthur Blank who I like a lot you know for a billionaire I think he's alright but like it's it's it's also like I think that he he entered he does met he doesn't he's interested he interferes he metals maybe Matt Ryan is a stopping point for that maybe it ultimate we don't know maybe it ends up that Matt Ryan becomes the meddler we don't know right but this is example of strong personalities at ownership front office convicted decision makers in all of those facets and a head coach brought in to become an advantage for a team that never could quite maximize it as such for a variety of disastrous reasons I don't I hope that nothing is ever that stupid again but at the same time like this Kevin Stofansky is the example of things going wrong in an organization for Kevin Stofansky. And I think part of the reason this job was appealing is that this is not a rebuild. Yeah and I think that that's having the push in the pull of being competitive and then really understanding you were tearing it down but then also trying to be competitive like it there was just so many competing timelines and motivations because of how Miss a lion so many of the things were because of how the Watson trade turned out so I think getting to a place now where it's like we're not rebuilding anything like I don't think you have to win the Super Bowl in a year one but like you have an idea of what I'm going to do. So I think that's a tough talent here to win right now and we want to just do everything we can to maximize what this season looks like I think that will be fun for Kevin Stofansky because I think it's been a couple years where that has been since that has been the charge with him as the head coach so I think that's an important distinction. The case against for me it just had solely because of again like with the timeline we're talking about where you have guy going straight back into being a head coach after having a middleing success at the previous job and I do not think that this will happen but I do think that this is the best comparison for how we can go poorly is Adam Gase with the just I knew you were going to do it. I think that's I think that's I think that's I think that the Atlanta roster is significantly better than the Jets roster was I'm just saying that when you look at retread offensive coach going right from one job to the next that is the last example that we have and I it's just worth mentioning at the very least. I do think that's worth mentioning for a minute there I thought in the age differences maybe what would but the worst worst case scenario Frank right retread going right. Absolutely. Yes. And then just being like nope this is not for me anymore actually fell as so because I but Adam Gase I think is the right comp because in terms of of age when we hire like all of those types of things and and and energy level required to bring that edge that everyone thought and and believe that he had that that he did have as an assistant coach and yeah I really like those parallels I mean I don't like them but I like that you said that. Yeah I do not I think I have more faith in working out but I do think historically that is at least a comp that you have to mention yes we're going to take our first quick break and then come back with the other two hires that have already happened in the cycle. Tired of the I know it's here somewhere moment the new scan snap I X 2400 scanner means you'll never search for a receipt again a simplest scan snap experience yet just press the blue button and instantly convert documents into digital files you can get it. You can find in seconds perfect for busy professionals who need organization without complexity with instant one touch scanning 45 pages per minute speed and automatic data extraction the I X 2400 saves your files exactly where you need them no more mystic spence claims or lost warranties just peace of mind knowing everything important is safe and instantly accessible ready to stop wasting time hunting for paperwork visit scan snap it dot com slash podcast and discover how simple document management can be scan snap. The smarter way to work. Here's the new citron C3 aircross the perfect SUV for bears and lovers of the great outdoors. Sure and comfort to inside it easily goes from five to seven seats and for you carbs look it's got Apple CarPlay and your favorite apps. Yes Mr. Grizzly available in petrol for electric or hybrid. So ready for a family adventure the new citron C3 aircross the lovers of the wilderness and everyday comfort now with a 1500 pounds electric car grant. What if you could feel more confident finally go after that promotion and feel great about inspiring other women. It all starts by recognizing your worth and talking about your wins with confidence. That's why galaxy chocolate has created the unhumble project in partnership with the charity young women's trust to bring you free confidence training. Get the pleasure you deserve from the incredible things you do take the training today search galaxy chocolate the unhumble project. Jeff Hathley is the Miami dolphins new head coach. Let's start with the case for how this could work out for Jeff Hathley and the dolphins. This was this was a tough one for me again because I don't think it's hard for me to think of something that's that's one to one. This one this one was easy for me weirdly enough I like immediately went somewhere. But if I went but okay and my brain immediately went somewhere and I was like is that actually right maybe I don't know it felt a little off to me still so you let me know what you think about this because I'm thinking if this works out in a best case scenario relative unknown coach who had worked with a bunch of different teams as an assistant still you know kind of became a name in the cycle when it started if it's a best case scenario and I'm thinking like defense as well I'm thinking they hope the dolphins hope that this is Mike Tomlin they hope that this is Oh wow that's shooting high okay I know I know right and that that's where I'm like it seems like set but about I'm thinking like this is the best best case scenario that they hope that this is I don't know that anything really can be that. But in terms of a young guy who has worked with some really talented people but has been behind the scenes and under the radar for a long time they hope that they're like ceiling becomes organizational stability right and I don't know that Jeff Lee's the guy for that but I do think that if you're looking at what they're trying to put in their building and historical comps to what they hope that this will be you could do a lot worse I think than shooting for shooting for the optimism of a Mike Tomlin higher. Well the only the only reason I feel like and I think that's that's an interesting one to throw out there I just think that the Steelers in 2006 were in a much different place than the dolphins are in right now right like the Steelers were competitive they were ten and six and Tomlin's first year he kind of took a team that was ready to win the one that I went to is Sean McDermott like what Sean McDermott took over in Buffalo like this is a rebuild in Miami like they're going to and the same way that the bills did where the bills had to kind of dig themselves out of that dead money hole based on what the previous roster had looked like the dolphins are about to have to do that with the two a deal and so bringing in a young defensive minded head coach who I think the entire point is all right we're going to be putting this thing back together we need guys that play hard we need to establish like a certain way the things go around here and I know the people are going to look at McDermott and say well he had Josh Allen you didn't have Josh Allen in your one right and like year one when they kind of really show that they had the ability to change the direction of things here I think that if you're the dolphins being the twenty seventeen bills is probably the best case scenario for the twenty twenty six dolphins and so that that went to me it was like and there was a weird so McDermott with when he was in Carolina in the over his entire tenure they finished 12th and he pay for play on defense so they were good but they weren't like the best defense in the league Jeff Hathley two years combined 12th and he pay for play on defense for the Packers and so I like that one I think that one actually does make some sense yeah I like that a lot I like that way more than mine I love that we're thinking about this in a way in the ways that the organizations are to like what's our best case scenario like if we're shooting for the moon and then what's more likely based on where we're at right now like I I love that because like first of all you know we're recording this after a press conference that I'm sure will be much discussed on this show and and many others sure will be and I got to say like good for Sean McDermott honestly like like yeah yes it was time I'm sure I think it was time to move on and to to figure out like what you were going to do next but like good for him honestly because maybe he becomes this the next successful retread coach somewhere maybe he takes some time off but but this is I like that comp because cultural reset in a lot of ways it's almost like they over corrected and when they hired Brian Flores who I know we both think the world of but there was some bumps when he was in Miami and then they over corrected almost and got like the cool guy the young offensive guy that like everybody was pals with that didn't work out either so now it's sort of like you're looking for the middle you're looking for a guy who understands organizational stability even though he's very very new in the league and you're looking for a guy who has done a lot of different things within the infrastructure of a team like Sean McDermott did like you know like like in the highest possible positive scenario like like a Tomland did you're looking for somebody who can come in and apply those lessons and those teachings to other elements of your organization the case against Jeff Hathley in Miami how could this not work out based on some recent examples no quarterback quarterback take the quarterback out Brandon Staley and Mattie refluse for the two that there's a lot of them there's a lot of like defensive head coach just don't work out and so that this one was one you could pick five guys and make a pretty easy comparison. Yeah, and I think I think about like he Jeff Hathley has the tree bump right obviously Matt Laflore might be proud like he gave someone the bump you know it wasn't just Sean or Kyle and it was like the hot name on the cycle right even in a kind of weird and underwhelming in some way a cycle definitely the hot name there the guy who people are touting is giving a clear schematic advantage speaks you know very clearly about a vision for how he would see the organization has a clear vision and a scheme that he's going to implement specifically into that defense I think the parallel is our quite there again leaving out the quarterback of a possible worst case scenario because again it's an organization that's in constantly in flux and has been for some time as the chargers were when they hired Brandon. Yeah, I think it's the best comparison like if you really think about it I think for everything that you laid out it is the best comparison last one here Robert solace of the Titans the only news kind of scoop up here still figure out who the offensive coordinator is going to be there was some speculation that it was going to be Mike McDaniel obviously that did not happen and it seems like right now I know Diana reported today that Brian Dable looks like he's leaning toward either try to be the bills head coach or taking the Titans OC job so if they land with Brian Dable I think that's probably something that you can be happy about if you're a Titans fan like based on all the available options but Robert solace to the Titans the case for how this can work out with Robert solace the Titans my answer is actually when you've already said well and I love that so I'm going to pivot from the because I know what you're going to say I love that and hold that that because I'll go quick one that you've already said my answer for Robert solace Shawn McDermott if they hope this goes and introduces competence and culture and personnel all those types of things we've already talked about the McDermott positivity gradient so I want to hear I want to hear yours. It's Mike Vrable I mean it's like this is you talk about it's even like the one year off retread like in every way and it is you just mentioned it where we have these organizations that ping pong between these archetypes of coaches and they do it purposefully and so the Titans firing Mike Vrable hiring Brian Callahan who are very different personality was the Brian Callahan not thing not working out and them just being the Wolverine meme where they're looking at a picture of Mike Vrable wall laying in blood bed and saying okay I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going what is the closest thing we can do in this cycle to just get Mike Vrable again and the answer was probably hiring Robert Salah like it's just it's so transparent and shameless but not in a way that I'm judging like I completely understand why they did this it's just the deep irony and sadness that comes along with that entire sequence of events if you are a Titans fan or somebody who's having to make the decision is those building in that building is just a tough one I'm judging the little that's very that's very diplomatic of you to not be doing so but I am because you had him the one that got away you had him girl what are you doing what I just I can't it's so good it's too good. So what's the case against what is the example of how this might not work out if you're the Titans. Oh honestly I think I mean you could look at a lot of Titans history here it's funny because you say how this could work if it's the Titans and the best example is Mike Vrable the way that this might not work is all the factors that led to Mike Vrable no longer being there. This is not a one-to-one comp but in terms of ownership and team infrastructure and power struggles seeming to happen by the month and all of these different variables that made it. Impossible for him to be continue being the head coach there and then go off to greener pastures that that is it unfortunately a great comp for how this could really go terribly wrong but you look at any of these other defensive coaches that we said we talked about ebber fluce being one of them now ebber fluce. I would say going into year his final year because that was the year where he did have the quarterback but had no idea what to do with the quarterback so if we're talking ebber fluce I would specifically comp that last year of his head coaching 10 year in Chicago because he got the quarterback the number one overall pick in Kayla Williams. They had no idea what to do with him and infrastructureally as a staff like you have to have that plan very much in place reports are saying that Robert Sala does have a plan that they buy into that they believe in as an ownership group so that's that's good but that would be a very extrapolated piece of the ebber fluce experience that I think directly applies to how this could go wrong in Tennessee. So the way the variable thing applies to not just the type of coach they're seeking out because of what he wasn't Tennessee the variable model in New England is exactly what they're trying to do in Tennessee you drafted a quarterback in the top three you bring in this defensive minded head coach but you still maximize that version of the roster it's literally what they're trying to accomplish with cam work and so I think that would make sense I went back to again like defensive retreads and this isn't a perfect one to one but like Rex Ryan like Rex Ryan was a really good defensive coach with the jets those defenses were consistently. Excellent they obviously had a lot more team success than the Robert Sala jets did but he gets another chance with the bills it doesn't really work out and so I feel like there's some parallels there even though it's not if it's not a perfect one for one but yeah I there just hoping that he's microbial and I think everything you said about the organizational dysfunction is right because in this cycle specifically I think you when you were looking at the different opportunities like the Titans and the Falcons I think we're probably tiered in a similar place for a lot of people looking at these jobs but the strengths and weaknesses to both of them were about as different as they could be with the Falcons you didn't have a clear path to a quarterback that you felt good about with the Titans you did but in Atlanta I think you feel a little bit better and I think Borgonsi is somebody that's well respected and I think that I don't think he would scare anybody off these jobs but when you look at the dysfunction from the ownership level consistently in Tennessee over and over and over again that's something I think raises some alarm bells and so even with a cam ward a job like the Falcons job may be a little bit more attractive because of some of the organizational stability like there's no perfect formula to these things like it's all like a it's a cosmic gumbo of like weird shit figuring out what these jobs is good and bad but in Tennessee specifically I think exactly what you said is the biggest thing that would scare people off Let's take one more quick break and then come back and shout through the jobs that are still open Tired of the I know it's here somewhere moment the new scan snap I X 2400 scanner means you'll never search for a receipt again A simplest scan snap experience yet just press the blue button and instantly convert documents into digital files you can find in seconds perfect for busy professionals who need organization without complexity with instant one touch scanning 45 pages per minute speed an automatic data extraction the I X 2400 saves your files exactly where you need them no more missed expense claims or lost warranties Just peace of mind knowing everything important is safe and instantly accessible ready to stop wasting time hunting for paperwork Visit scan snap it dot com slash podcast and discover how simple document management can be scan snap the smarter way to work Here's the new citron C3 air cross the perfect SUV for bears and lovers of the great outdoors Sure and comfort to inside it easily goes from five to seven seats and for you Cubs look it's got Apple CarPlay and your favorite apps Yes, Mr. Grizzly available in petrol full electric or hybrid So ready for a family adventure the new citron C3 air cross for lovers of the wilderness and everyday comfort Now with a 1500 pounds electric car grant what if you could feel more confident Finally go after that promotion and feel great about inspiring other women It all starts by recognizing your worth and talking about your wins with confidence That's why galaxy chocolate has created the unhumble project in partnership with the charity young women's trust to bring you free Confidence training get the pleasure you deserve from the incredible things you do take the training today search galaxy chocolate the unhumble project All right, so this was your idea you wanted to talk about what these jobs are and no, but I hear here's what I want to ask Here's why I'm asking this you want to talk about what these jobs are and what they are not and as somebody who has done the content thing for a very long time I usually know that when you have an idea like that. It's because one of the jobs made you think about it that way So what was the job like what was the reason that you wanted to do this framing which which team it's super mean So it's the cardinals because I'm sitting here thinking like is anyone thinking about the card Right now like it's very true It's very true All of these manipulations are happening where teams are using other teams for leverage on each other and they're not even trying to do that with the cardinals I'm like What it's like the meme of the group the group of people sort of in doodle form standing in the middle of the room And then the guy standing in the corner and he's thinking they don't know and what he's thinking is they don't know I'm still in the mix for a job. I still have a head coaching thing and see like hello So yes, I was thinking about the cardinals and what specifically what they are not and that is a clear and present danger to Anyone in terms of the competition for some of these coaching jobs. Yeah, I I answered it a little bit differently, but I think that's that to me is what it is What it is is a job that aren't not many people are excited about like that's what the cardinals job is It's a roster that has holes you talk about ownership questions We've touched on this a couple different times over the last couple weeks and I feel comfortable Saying talking about it because multiple coaches that have been out for the jobs the last two times that I've had vacancies I've just heard that they weren't excited about it people remove their name from From consideration or they wouldn't even interview because of just some of the fears about Who's in charge of that organization and then the last part you don't have any clear path to a quarterback either So at least intend to see you have cam ward it wait here You don't even have that and so there just aren't that many positive qualities to the job and so for me What is it? It's a job that aren't that a lot of people aren't really excited to get or are Shacing that hard right now. Yeah, I like that one of the things that they were that People had talked about being One of the positives with Jonathan Ganon was that he genuinely wanted the job and they were having trouble You know finding that and so his enthusiasm You know it does make you wonder I know the record wasn't there and the defense fell off the cliff and all of that But it does make you wonder it's like you had someone in your building who really wanted to be there Who really wanted that job who wanted to make it right who wanted to work with ownership? And and we'll see if they can find that again For me what it isn't I don't think it's like a bear and roster talent wise right I think there is something to be sold there like I think there are some pieces that you can build around the defense of injuries At the end of the season are fucking brutal like no one and Garrett Williams getting hurt in the way that they did and now the timelines for those guys That's as bad as it can possibly get on top of all the injuries you dealt with last year But I think there are like six to eight guys on both sides of the ball combined where Cicara can we can build with this and so I don't think this is hopeless So as you look at So for each of these we're gonna do what is it? What is in it and then who should get it based on those considerations? So in your mind who should get the cardinals job? Who do I hate no, I'm just kidding It's like I said I was thinking about this late last night. It was super mean I like I like out of nowhere Type of person for this job I like it either an offensive minded guy or a CEO type of coach I it's crazy, but I like a Davis web. I know he's gonna be in the mix for for this bills job where it sounds like he is at least I like somebody who you go in and there are no expectations that you win immediately But the most important thing is is that you look for the quarterback a Nate Sheelhouse for example You look for the quarterback. You try to identify the quarterback and that Figuring out that piece to me. You mentioned it with this roster So much falls into place upon simply figuring out that piece matching quarterback to system I think is the wrong way to go they tried that with cliff We saw some highs. We saw a lot of lows in that regard I think coming in getting a guy just who knows the position who knows quarterback with no expectations It's you're going to be competitive from the jump because you are still developing yourself as a coach If I'm looking at this the defensive version of this I think Anthony Campanelli has that's my answer He has the personality he has sort of the when the room he had the community would love him like this this would be Maximizing defensive side of the roster. I Caminilla is my answer. I just see it I just like based on what they were in Jacksonville last year even some of the pieces they have defensively like I just I Can see it and obviously the offense becomes the questions can be the case with every defensive minded coach Especially when like you said you want to create a hospital environment for whoever the quarterback is as that person comes along in the next couple years But just based on like energy like where the jags were like I they hired him in Jacksonville because they wanted somebody That was a little younger that was hungry and that I think could kind of get the ear of what was still like a very young team And he did that and I think schematically he just did so much good stuff And so that's one where I'm like you know what I got I see that one like I could absolutely see Anthony Campanelli Like being the right choice for the Cardinals in this moment Yeah, I could see it. He's got the community would love him You know, I feel like get him out doing some charity events get him to like some of those Italian restaurants and in Phoenix You know if you've never heard Anthony Campanelli talk I I strongly suggest you go seek out an interview with Anthony Campanelli Like because you'll learn a lot all right Let's hit the next one here and then kind of draft off of what this morning has been like I love this I love this like we're doing we're building this on the fly and I love it Thank you for indulging me here. This is fun. This is a great way to do it rather than just like here's the news Let's talk about it. Okay The Buffalo bills oh god What is the Buffalo bills job? Oh my god Okay, it's twofold my answer for what it is and what it is not as the same just you know efficiency It is not as good of a job as it looked at the surface when Before Terry Pagula got up on the podium or the lectern and started talking today about the reasons why he moved on From Sean McDermott and the infrastructure in place Josh Allen makes this look so gorgeous like he makes this look like the dream right this is the one where we all joked like John Harbaugh. Are you sure that contract is signed right because this job just came open at the 11th hour That's the one that that inspired all those comments But this I don't think is as good of a job as it looks like on paper. So it is and it is not the same thing to me Not as shiny as it looks I landed at the exact same spot What is it? It's a chance to coach an MVP quarterback and one of the best players of his generation that does not happen very often What is it? It's not perfect I was so surprised when I read that Jeff Howe story this morning and Ranking the openings based on him talking people around the league and the bills were resounding number one Like I was just surprised by that even before this press conference happens And then you see the press conference happen and I think you're just reminded that Sometimes these organizations like they find stability for reasons that have nothing to do With ownership or the people in charge and you know I think there was a lot of that discussion with what happened with the colts You know like what happened with the colts with paid manning and Andrew Luck and like how much stability you find because of quarterbacks like that and so To watch that happen this morning compare How much confidence you have in the bills organization after that hour ends to how much confidence you have in the Ravens organization After Steve Bishaddi's press conference sense um both strange in their own right but also like Uh, strange with function Right like strange with clarity Strang like strange with personality not strange with what the hell is this and it's it's night and day to me because these two jobs I think on paper look very similar Especially with the quarterbacks They're not at all in my opinion The Ravens are a model of stability for 20 years. They've had the same structure and the same people in charge and the same processes and the same General level of success over multiple coaches multiple quarterbacks and multiple general managers I think it's easy to forget and I think it's part I really wanted to spend some time talking about it on Monday to like give Sean McDermott credit It's easy to forget what the bills were Before Sean McDermott got there and I think that he deserves some credit and Josh Shalon deserves some credit for Making sure that's the case and Brandon Bean does as well But to watch what it looked like up there between those two guys until like Throw your coaching staff under the bus and I know I'm sure that listen I don't think Brandon Bean is absolved of any sort of blame here for what he might have said behind closed doors about the key on Coleman thing But the moment The terriba gula cuts him off there and does that in public you're just cutting his knees out from under him Like it's it's just a crazy thing to do in that setting as the owner of an NFL team. I can't even believe it happened Stop helping bro Just just sit there and be the rich guy for like a power Can you do that? Can you just sit there and be a freaking billionaire like oh my god Yeah, it's crazy crazy. Yeah, it's crazy and it ditch like I I like that you mentioned that about Brandon Bean because no He's not absolved in this and the roster building has been extremely suspicious over the last couple of seasons especially Even though I think he also deserves credit for helping with Sean to get this team into the level of Of respect ability that it is Certainly not absolved, but when you see Behind closed doors dynamics out in public in front of your face It is shot it is shocking like it I like to your point. I felt like we were watching You know like snl or something like it I hope snl parodies it in fact like it was it was filed to me who should get the bills job Brian Davell Because because because it's not gonna last it's an overhang GM. It's a trigger happy owner the next coach Has to at least get to the next round of the playoffs if not become a Super Bowl bona fide Super Bowl contender or make an appearance unsuitable probably in the next two years because You've now made your bed and set the expectations so high by moving on from Shawn McDermott That the very least you could do is go get the guy that everyone's screaming at you about to make the quarterback happy or whatever The case may be behind the scenes who works well with Brandon Bean who who clearly has a lot of say in the matter And it's not gonna work out. I mean, I don't want to sound doom and gloom or morbid, but this is the situation that has been Voiced it upon the organization when Terry Pagula made a vibes based decision to move on from stability Instead of addressing maybe deeper problem you can keep continuity and still address real problems within an organization That's what the cults are doing right now It doesn't mean that those guys are gonna be safe long term But they're keeping continuity and having really honest questions and conversations about where the problems are You can do that and keep stability for an organization now They've reset the timeline They've truncated everything and put everyone in a pressure cooker because if you don't do better than what you just did In in in a season and two seasons Everybody's gone and so that's where it's like Brian Dable will get a shot at this I think and should get a shot at this And let's see what happens. He's the one who knows the organization and knows exactly what he's getting into I don't think that line of thinking is wrong. It just scares me I just don't like based on how it went New York and just based on Some of the things on offense they had to untangle and like go away from that he wanted to do and how it benefited them like I just think about the road box those offenses ran into at the end of the day Bolera even with Josh Allen and just like how much they remade themselves over the last couple years But I don't think you're wrong in the sense that like Starting over with someone that's like a new coach or somebody who is it's gonna need a little bit of runway You almost can't do that and I think And I think that speaks to why it might have been a mistake to fire Sean McDermott is like because you put your Self in this situation and do without firing the GM right? It's like it's they they've painted themselves into a corner Where I feel like you limit the amount of candidates? You can really consider for a job like this And I don't think that's ever the sort of corner you want to be painted into But I think it seems to be where the bills are All right the Baltimore Ravens who do you want higher for it? Oh, I don't know I seriously like really good point that you almost can't go with an unproot because you're giving this guy no runway to develop If you go with an unproven This is one where I was just like I don't know. It's too early like I did I think they will make sense in some ways But also I don't know if that's what I would want to do This is one where there have been a couple in this cycle where I'm like I just don't know and the in the bills right now Or just one where like I don't know what the right answer is you know I'm gonna sound very condescending saying this and forgive me to the audience for that but NFL owners just such as a piece of advice if you don't if you're not convicted beyond You're marrying your wife for husband that you have the next person who is definitively going to lead you into the next era of your team smoothly Don't make the abrupt decision. Don't do it. I don't care who's crying in front of you. Just don't do it The idea that what happened that day is the reason that he did it is just like and admitting that in public is just is crazy All right the Baltimore Ravens. What is the Ravens job? The best job in the NFL the best opening we've seen in In many many many many many many many moons in the NFL It is what it is what nobody knew the Rams job would be that's what the Ravens job is yeah I the line about the bills It's a chance to coach an MVP quarterback and one of the best players of his generation in his stable and consistent organizational environment. It's it's it's all it's it's everything you could want It's the everything good about the bills job plus everything good about the building like it's and I'm I'm curious for you What what isn't it to you because I didn't have an answer to this I maybe I just am not looking under enough rocks. I feel like it is exactly what you said I think it is not For everyone because I think that's a good answer are incredibly And rightfully so it's the most competitive sport in the world. It's the biggest stage They're rightfully. I think he restrict people who think they're gonna be right for this job who are gonna throw everything They've got at trying to get this job I think you have to know Very specifically whoever that coaches that's coming in. I hope it's a young Candidate that they develop with the organization who can give them an edge especially offensively with Lamar early on To get them over the hump, but to understand that this is a long-term operation here And this is a long-term stay for for the next head coach Um, I think you have to understand what you're not in a better in a maybe a more holistic and fundamental way Because to go into that organization is to You're gonna have a say in things but to go into that organization the way that it's set up right now as any coach I don't care how experienced you are is to completely let go of any other organizational experience you previously had You have to let go and just be a sponge and become of the organization because that is how they've collaborated in the past So that you have to it's not for everyone because I think there's there's gonna be two There's a couple people maybe with too much ego to rightfully take that job Who should get it? I think Nate Sheelhouse should get that job Wow, I think that's or or like an unproo another unproven You know, Grant Yudinsky is very very unproven, but like that's the category of of people But I'm sure for like three more years the Nate's been in the league But Nate's been coaching he played You know, I know I know I know I know I know I know I know that's a thing it is I think um That and it's not just one person or another person or whoever it's to me. It's like This is the job. This is the job. Everyone thinks it says it's Pittsburgh whatever I think there's there's valid points to that. This is the job To find to correctly identify the next Wonderkind offensive person to correctly do it. They might incorrectly do it. Who knows? We might be incorrectly doing it. Who knows, but This is the this is the platform. This is the runway. This is the moment right now to to do that So I'm looking forward to that. I hope it is one of those types of unproven offensive guys I get that I get the appeal of that I just kept coming back to Jesse Menter for this job and maybe it's just because The organization I just I said this about the bills job and I think you can kind of say this about the Ravens job too You can't completely ignore who the offensive coach is But you have more leeway because of who the quarterback is and so I think that Hiring a defensive coach think at the most on that side of the ball consistently and making sure you have An offensive coordinator that clears the bar that gives you enough the same way that Todd Monkin did I think that sort of model works in a situation where you have an MVP caliber quarterback And so I again, there's just one where I could see him doing the job I could see him getting the job. I could see their defense being really good right away because he got the job So that's one I've just kept coming back to but she houses a fascinating option and we will see how that unrabbed on How that kind of on on full tier over the next couple weeks ago She'll house So sorry let's do let's do these next couple very quickly because I want to talk about McDaniel before we get out of here Uh the steward's job. What is it and what isn't it the second best job opening in football right now. What isn't it? clarity at quarterback and and also understanding organizational dynamics who's going to really be making the decision on the quarterback We know Mike Tomlin had a significant say Most of the control over that roster. How is that balance going to work out moving forward? I think this would not be a bad fit for again and up and coming coach I like the idea of chrishula here. How cool would it be if Aruni hired a shula? It's just there's some poetry to it as well I like the idea of an unproven coach offensively here too This is another one of those jobs less Shiny than the Ravens job, but still very very shiny Especially for a coach who they are going to invest in for the long term It's a job that reflects stability job security history. What isn't it? It's not a turnkey job Yes Did this is there's remodeling that needs to happen in that building and nothing crazy But like I think the roster will turn over in the next couple of years It will get young and you still need a quarterback and like you said I'm so curious what Omar Conn is without Mike Tomlin And that's not to say that he was hamstring by him or the other way around I'm just curious if the organization operates differently With a different sort of mindset from your head coach and different expectations And I do think there's a possibility that it will and I think a difference in how they operate could ultimately benefit them So you said chrishula, who do you think should get the Steelers job? I do think this would be a good job for chrishula I think that to me it does set the runway for Tomlinesque Sort of I mentioned at the top of this a coach who has coached every single position on the defensive side Also really underrated about Mike Tomlin at the time A coach with a vast coaching network already himself because of who he worked in a building with There's very similar parallels there because chrishula may not be an offensive guy But he knows plenty of them because he's been Sean McVase Bestie for so many years So this is um to me it just it makes a lot of sense to me I kept coming back to Brian florist. I just I would just love to see him there I would love to see what he could do there And again, you hope that because he now has you know has touched that That tree a little bit does he have somebody that he might have in mind to come with him to do that job like it That's that's why I just kept coming back to and I think I'll keep coming back to it Let's let's skip the browns and the raiders well plenty of time to talk about those jobs as they get filled And again, this is solely for time This is not because I don't think those are worthwhile conversations I think they are worthwhile conversations But I wanted to talk to you about McDaniel just before you got out of here you wrote about it yesterday Like it I this is incredible for the content Like for that it could not be better for the content like whatever argument you want A point for like the idea that well Justin Herbert has never had the right offensive coaches And that's why Justin Herbert can't succeed which I don't think is true But I think that there's some people who are going to point that out well now he has Mike McDaniel Well, Mike McDaniel, why couldn't he get over the hop in Miami? Well, it was too To was the problem. Well now he has Justin Herbert So just like the amount of arguments this will fulfill and just the entire connection with the whole to a Herbert thing on the internet That's happened over the last two or three years like for the content. This is incredible But I also think for the chargers this is really fun walk me through your feelings about Mike McDaniel being the offensive coordinator In Los Angeles. This was a move for the posters, you know, and the chargers are great at posting you know So for me, there's some really cool poetry about Who Mike McDaniel like really is and I know you know this well Robert too and the stuff that he's really made of The substance behind all the quips and quirks and viral videos and all of those things There's something really cool to me about footballs quintessential tough guy in Jim Harbaugh Identifying those traits in Mike McDaniel and yes 100% The top of this trade identification process is probably Can he maximize my quarterback? Can we get a little bit more of these like shana hand Principles and some of the new stuff that Mike McDaniel's running into my building Can I apply this to my offensive line my tight ends group my run game very excited to see that by the way And certainly can we maximize the potential of the quarterback and and that's obviously number one for that organization But number two for me is This is a person who I think his best coaching is still ahead of him in Mike McDaniel and I'm really looking forward to This journey for him and him showing I think the broader public and certainly NFL circles who no matter what he does Will sort of scoff and sneer at him because he tops a certain way looks a certain way has a certain stature Thanks to certain way is very very confident and himself despite all those things that they think he should not be because of um It is Someone who's going to show I think an opportunity to show with this like historically bad-ass coach in Jim Harba What Substance is actually there behind all of those things and so I'm very excited about that. I'm so glad you said that and I I think that the perfect coaches in the enough you have to be confident to be a coach in the NFL You have to have you have to have confidence in yourself because I think you have to present that confidence to players But at the same time, I think one of the things it's always shying through to me about Mike in the way that he approaches the job And is that it's always in service of the players And if you are confident, but the job is always in service of the players and getting them to play as well as possible And it's about you taking a backseat in that way That's a good blend and that's what he has always had and so I I'm with you and then I think his best days as a coach or ahead of him I think it's so telling he took this job over the others like going to take going to play with this quarterback and coach with this quarterback Is a springboard to the next job makes total sense to me The schematics of it are fascinating Like what is a Mike McDaniel offense with Justin Herbert look like Because it's going to look a lot different That what a Mike McDaniel offense with two looks like just in terms of like where they what Out of areas of the field they can access. It's just so so different and so I can't wait for it And there's an irony because stale wanted one of the McVey guys at the beginning and he struck out on them And then now they finally get that system and Shane Day who is their quarterbacks coach coach with Mike in San Francisco And so I think it will be smoother in some ways than it might seem and I cannot wait to see What the plan ultimately looks like with these two guys together and if it flames out then they're going to be a lot of haters on the internet who are celebrating But I think it could be extremely fun. Yeah, I think it's going to be a blend of some of the new funky stuff He did less of the ballsmanship and the handoffs and those types of things More of the funky stuff the motions obviously are going to be there the formations pre snap and the different gap changes but also like With people that combine for the size of like a small planet and To do that to bring like that Kyle Shanahan suffocation Monster ball to some of this speed and ability of the quarterback Very very special potential here. I'm very excited now We don't know how it's going to go but I I'm an optimist and I tend to think it'll go well Robert I we got a couple more things I want to hit but I can do that on my own I'm going to let you go because you have a lot of things to do today and you have a hard out So you get out of here sincerely appreciate the time you got a million things going on Please tell people where they can check out the work that you are doing at all times Yes, find me at the athletic calm find me on NFL daily with the great Greg Rosenthal and Find me all over the place probably bundled up because I am soft and I hate the cold so Here we go Are you going to the Super Bowl? I will be there. I'm excited. Yeah, I'll see you there. I'll be there all week looking forward to it All right, see you having me Robert. Bye All right, I'm gonna keep rolling solo here, which I it is an uncomfortable place for me to be But there are a couple more things I wanted to hit and Jordan had to get out of here The other OC higher that I wanted to talk about just because we haven't had a chance to address it out anywhere else Drew Petsing going to the Lions and I know that there have been some people who are skeptical of this and The job that Petsing did when he was with the the Cardinals and I completely understand that I think this makes a lot of sense based on who the Lions want to be offensively and who Petsing has been and has wanted to be on offense They want to be a heavy personnel under center run play action throw the ball over the middle of the field team And I think he is equipped to do that. That's what he wants to do That's the offense he wants to build and so I think that There have been ups and downs with that group. They lost Clay Natums the run game struggle because of that But you already have Hank Freyly in Detroit to kind of help That be a blend of you know those two guys kind of building the run game together in the same way that he could with Clay Natums and Arizona So I understand that there are people who are a little bit worried about this or a little bit skeptical of this I do think that it makes sense if you're the Lions and I think that there is absolutely a chance with the amount of talent that team has on offense Petsing to look a lot smarter in Detroit than he ended up looking in Arizona And let's just do the Raiders and the Browns with that exercise that we were doing before because you know We might as well. So let's run through both of those before we get out of here the Browns What is the Browns job? I've talked about this a little bit. It's a tough job There is not going to be a ton of talent on that team this year We know that they are still deeply in a rebuild. They are still tens of millions of dollars over the cap That is something they're going to be digging out of over the next year next two years And you don't have a reasonable path to a quarterback this year in a draft where there just aren't a lot of them It seems like it's going to be some combination of Shedor and a moderately price of veteran that they could bring in I don't think that's attractive to anybody at the same time. What isn't this job? I don't think it's some coaching death sentence either when I look at this and I've made this comparison before It reminds me a little bit of where the Texans were in like 21-22 oddly enough considering the Dishon Watson connection You look at the amount of draft capital that Houston team had after the Watson trade This is a Browns team that has two first round picks is going to be making a lot of picks and did last year And so you're trying to build like a cash of young talent in the exact same way those Texans teams were The 2022 Texans were very very bad in the same way that I anticipate the 2026 Browns being very very bad, but in 2027 you potentially set yourself up to go get a quarterback and maybe turn this thing around quicker than people might expect And so I think that is the best case scenarios that you look at yourself where the Texans were and it can feel like Just an absolute quagmire based on how the last couple seasons have gone but at the end of the day You are a couple hits early in the draft which the Browns are going to have more bites at the apple this year And a functional young quarterback away from being a competitive team pretty quickly I still think the Browns have pieces on defense and they're going to have some financial flexibility in 27 to kind of help remake the areas of that roster notably the offensive line that have the furthest to go In terms of who should get this job This is another one where I'm like There the options are so different like Todd Monkin and Jim Schwartz could not be more different than Grant Udinsky and Nate Shihlhouse And so if I'm a young coach There's part of me that thinks oh man like if this is my only chance Do I really want to tie it to an opportunity where you know you don't really have a shot in year one based on where things are Or is this your best chance to get one of these jobs and if you can weather that first year Do you put yourself in a spot by 2027 and year two where this can actually be a pretty decent landing spot? And so if they landed on one of the young guys like if Grant Udinsky got this job I think it would kind of seem a little bit crazy But I also think this is an organization that Is willing to take that sort of swing they think about things a little bit differently And I think that's gotten them in trouble at times in terms of how they thought about player acquisition and certain moves But I don't think Andrew Barry is afraid to do something a little bit surprised And kind of shoot and swing for the fence when it comes to this like can you find the next guy Who can be that young offensive centric just Ceiling razor on that side of the ball consistently for when you find that quarterback And so that it's going to be a fun thing to watch and whether they do end up landing on one of those really young candidates And with the Raiders what is it? It's a blank slate with an opportunity to take a quarterback with the number one pick and reset the entire franchise And I think that is appealing like this is a team. I think in 2027 they have $200 million in cap space They just don't have many guys that weren't a part of last year's draft that you're tying yourself to For the long term and so you're really starting over if you were the Raiders coach And that can be a good thing But it could also be a bad thing because what isn't this job? It's a place where we've seen that success is not easy They've consistently stumbled in so many different ways over the years You think about the Brady factor you're paired with the GM coming off a three and 14 season who's priority on somewhat shaky ground So there I think there are some benefits because you are starting over here. I think there are some drawbacks based on the Raiders history and just tying yourself to a group that's already Struggled out of the gate The person that I can see here like who deserves this job who should get this job It's very early. He may not even want to coach. We mentioned him a couple times on this show somebody like Sean McDermott I think could make sense here Somebody that is overseen a rebuild that has been at this stage of an organization before That is somebody I'd absolutely consider if I were the Raiders because we've seen what he can do With the early stages of a team that really just kind of needs to change the narrative and the direction around them All right, that was deeply uncomfortable. Appreciate you guys sticking around with me through that We will be back Tomorrow with the championship weekend preview deep dives on both of those games and you know as some of this other stuff comes in Whether it's the egos offensive coordinator the bucks offensive coordinator Obviously there are updates around those things But we're just going to wait until those hires are made before we start Really digging into them rather than just wildly speculating about what all the different options can be And so we will come back to that at some point in the next week or so. Don't worry on that front For now though, that is all we've got sincerely appreciate you guys listen. We'll talk to you very soon You Idol money lies in your current account picking crumbs out of its belly button wondering should I eat them? But when you start investing with monzo your money's always busy You've turns on regular investments Investes your spare change and tops up your stocks and shares. 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