Should We Let Our 13-Year-Old Daughter Date?

My wife and I are on separate pages when it comes to what we allow in our daughter's life. She's 13 and my wife feels like it's okay for a 16 year old boy to pursue her and want to be with her. And want to be with her? What does that even mean? What's going on? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloni show coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee. I'm a real guy, a real family trying to figure it out along with the rest of you for the last two decades plus. I've been sitting with hurting people as they try to figure out what's the next right move. And I'm glad that you've joined us. Now to this show is it's real people calling in from all over the planet talking about what's going on in their life and their marriages and their mental, emotional health, relationships with their kids. Whatever they got going on, pull up a seat and we figure out what's the next right move. Thanks for joining us. Let's go out to Birmingham, Alabama and talk to Jorge. What's up George? Hey, how you doing? I'm good brother. How about you man? I'm pretty good. What's going on dude? Yeah, I have a question. By the way, huge fan, thank you for the work that you do. I appreciate that brother. Thank you. So my wife and I are on separate pages when it comes to what we allow in our daughter's life. For example, the biggest thing right now is who she's able to date. She's 13. And my wife feels like it's okay for a 16 year old boy to pursue her. And want to be with her and vice versa. And want to be with her? What is that even mean? Yeah, like, you know, whatever boyfriend and girlfriend looks like these days. And so she feels like it could be really good with the boundary set allowing her to experience life. And I come from, I still think that she's period too young to be having a boyfriend, let alone somebody that's, you know, three years older. And it doesn't matter how much I try to partner with her on this. It always turns into a huge fight, something that we can never see eye to eye on. And then I'm always ending up to be the bad guy. And so I don't know how to approach this conversation. Our upbrings were very different. You know, I had a little longer leash and now because of my experiences, I'm saying, I think we need to keep this closer to Jess where she wasn't a much more controlled environment and wasn't allowed to do a whole lot. And so she wants to let that leash out a little bit further. So I would love your expertise in this. Well, I've got some about the specifics, man. I've got some really firm thoughts. But I want to back out because I think this is an important issue. And I'm going to address it head on, comes to 13 year olds dating, especially dating 16 year olds. If you're watching this, you could have seen my face when you were when you were laying it out for me. But I want to back out a little bit. OK, where else are y'all at odds in your marriage? Exactly. That's what I thought. Tell me about that. I don't know if you have enough time. The last the last five years, about five years ago, she had mentioned, well, not mentioned, but she told me that, you know, she was done in the marriage for a lot for quite a few reasons. And so through the last five years, just been she hasn't left. Thank the Lord. She's still a part of this family. We're trying to work things out more recently. She's had some revelation in that area. And let's just say we're both on on different thought processes on how much childhood plays into present day. And I'm I'm a firm believer that our our childhood has a huge role in who we are and how we operate. And so just knowing a lot of her childhood, I believe, is playing a big role in even how she's approaching her daughter's relationship. You know, she didn't have a very great relationship with her parents growing up, especially her mom. So she's always dreamed of having this amazing, like friendship, parenting relationship with her daughter. Yikes. So where where are y'all to struggling? Everywhere? Yeah, I mean, we let me be concrete because I'm throwing amorphous things at you. Are you all on the same page with how you all spend money? No, are you all on the same page with your sex life? Oh, no. Are you all on the same page with when she walks in the door, your shoulders drop because you're glad she's home and vice versa? I am. Yeah. I think I do see that changing somewhat. It's like I said, there's not enough time on this. Like it's really hard because to be to be very honest. Yeah, let's put it out there, man. Yeah, I get 100% that you love your wife. Nothing you say is going to change that, but also I want to own reality of the situation right in right now. OK. And I and I have like, and I've five years of counseling, seeing multiple therapists and, you know, just really lots of books, podcasts. Just really, that's why I'm a huge fan of the show. There's so much that I've learned and continue to learn. My faith is a huge part of also how I lead my family and how I love my wife. All that to say with boundaries, right? And so, you know, I what I am seeing really is this 15 year old girl that's trapped whatever, whatever has triggered that over the last several years. And I don't think it's just been the last five. So I think it's been for many more years than that because it wasn't that girl is never able to grow up or experience or whatever. I see a lot of that, like, just continue to come out. And so she's re experiencing it because she has a daughter in the house, right? Yeah. And doing that with my daughter. And so there's like, even when it comes to dating and being with these guys, those those boundaries that control that's put in place there, you see a lot of her kind of living through that weather. I mean, she would never agree to that statement. But really, that's that's what's happening. And even when we have those conversations about my daughter and this as an example, you see a lot of that teenager fight with a parent. You know, it's it's it's very much there. And so I also recognize that that's also at play. I have we have other children in the home as well. And so, like I said, there's just a lot of things that I've had to work through. And so recently she went on this trip conference came back with some new revelation about just where she's at and where some of this has come from. And, you know, some of the things have been about looking at me being too controlling or too manipulative or too emotionally abusive or whatever. And I know a lot of that comes from that lens as well. But with that, she's recognizing that, man, I have played a part in that that I'm that I'm not a victim. Right. That she is played a part in co-creating how she lives in. Yeah. Yeah. And when you grow up, like it sounds like she did. Obviously, I want to be respectful because she's not on the phone. But right with how you're telling her story, any any instance of you stepping in to be supportive to create values in your house to make wise choices. If her lens, if the glasses she is experiencing her life in and seeing her life unfold as an adult with a with a young girl in her home, then you become her dad. So everything that you do is tinged with trying to control not love, trying to emotionally abusive, not holding boundaries. Right. So it can be a lens that she experiences everything through. Yeah. And I'm not I'm not removed from fall. You're not perfect. I'm a very sarcastic guy. Of course. Of course. And I've learned, you know, God brought her into my life to teach me how to let some of that go. I totally get that. But that lens is still very much the reality. And and so like with this particular instance, anytime I raise my hand, I've tried different approaches rather than just hard. No, looking at a partnership and really trying to get her to see that. And the problem is, is like when I when I go to people get opinions, you know, I throw a situation out there. I feel like those conversations are being brought before mature adults that have worked through life that maybe have been parents before therapist or whatever. Well, she says the same thing. And it's hard for me. I know, I know that that's not true. And even if it is true, the people she's talking to, obviously, you know, have not walked through that or they are not of the same mindset. Sure. Well, I so my my my 30,000 foot concern here is that your teenage daughter is going to be the proxy war that your marriage is. That's going to she's going to become the battlefield that you fight for your marriage upon. Yeah. And she can't carry that weight. And so the deeper, harder conversation, which sounds like you've been wrestling with for half a decade or more is how do we. Co-create a world where we're both seen and we're both known and we're both celebrated on a regular basis and those things provide an opportunity for us to challenge each other. Yeah. And that has to be the focus here. And I get obviously like, I mean, I take calls from all over the planet. I was just on the phone with business leaders doing marriage coaching behind closed door. Like I get that. Also, that's not how it works. Right. Yeah. There's one spouse that's in a different path, right? In a different part of their their their life, re-experiencing things, trying to re-correct things through their their kids or through their work or through their sex, whatever it is. And it becomes just a mess. So I get the pickle you're in. And I also have some compassion for your wife saying, I think the way to stop. I can imagine her feeling in her nervous system. The way for me to change change my family tree is to simply bulldoze every boundary that I felt hemmed in by as a child. The problem is y'all's daughter is going to be a casualty of that. And so with with no hesitation, like with no quiver or doubt in my mind after spinning my entire career, working with teenagers and their parents and having a 15 year old and a nine year old in my house, there's no chance, no way in any shape or fashion, would I let my 13 year old son, data 16 year old girl or let my 13 year old daughter, data 16 year old boy. No chance, no how, no way. It's not fair to the 16 year old. It's super, super not fair to the 13 year old. Like period end of story point blank. Yeah. And so in I would even back out and say, I mean, the question I would ask her if she was on the phone is like, what do you think you missed out on as a 13 year old that you're going to solve by putting her in the arms of a 16 year old boy? Or what experiences do you think you're quote unquote robbing her from or or holding her back from instead of protecting her from? And again, I have this exact same conversation. If you're 13 year old, your eighth grade boy was being pursued by a sophomore junior in high school. Yeah. All right. And I can just tell you the rules in my house, which are nobody goes on a date, a one on one date until their 16 period into story. That's the baseline. Now, my son is in high school. He's gone to dances with groups of people. He goes to the movies with groups of people. I want to with like you said with boundaries teach socialization, but there's no way I would put a 13 year old in that situation. Like like under like under zero circumstances. Yeah. And I and I guess the hard part for you is you know that right? Yeah. And this is becoming the proxy war by with the which the disconnection your marriage is being fought. Yeah, cause she'll even she'll even say like I feel like I'm walking on eggshells with you know, my my daughter and then I'm walking on eggshells with you and I can't win. And they said, well, we can win if we come at this together. Correct. We're not we're not we're not competing with our 13 year old ever. Right. She's she's a child. And so we we make those rules. We make the guidelines. We come together. It's not like, well, if me and her do this thing, is it going to upset that it should never be about that? Absolutely not. And and more importantly, 13 year olds are supposed to be mad at their parents. Yeah. 18 year olds are supposed to be mad at their parents. That's part of the gig. And so if parenting is trying to avoid a teenager not being mad at you or not liking you. What a what a scary place for that teenager to find themselves that they are responsible for the emotional response of the adults in their home. And more importantly, how terrifying for a 13 year old or a 16 year old to realize I can control the adults in my life. Yeah. That is a terrifying weapon that a teenager, a child would find themselves in. And so I without digging into I mean, it sounds like you've been on a path, man. And it sounds like your wife is on a path. I would have to talk to both of you to sit down and give you some guidance on what I, you know, here's where I think y'all's next steps are together. But man, somebody's got to step up and protect that 13 year old girl. Somebody's got to step up and protect that 16 year old boy from himself. And yeah, that I mean, I think you knew what I was going to say, but that's that's where I stand on this whole thing. But brother, thank you for the call, man. I'm I'm fully team George on this one, man. And my hope is you'll continue to treat your wife with dignity and respect as she tried us to wrestle with this. And at the same time, lovingly and firmly saying, dude, I remember being a 16 year old boy. This is a bad news all around. Bad news all around. Thanks for the call, my brother. I'm grateful for you. Sorry, I don't feel like I helped very much, but I appreciate the call. We come back. A woman asks how to break codependency with her 15 year old kid. Montana Knife Company makes the best knives on the planet. Period. Full stop. You guys know my son and I are big hunters. We have been out in the woods all winter long and Montana Knife Company knives have come in clutch and my wife is an amazing cook and she uses Montana Knife Company knives every day. Between the woods and the kitchen, my family needs knives that actually hold up to all of the chaos we throw at them. I bought the chef's knife set from my wife several years ago. She still uses it every day and I have a number of their knives for my outdoor adventures. Montana Knife Company knives are designed, tested and built by real hunters and real cooks. When you pick one up, you can instantly feel the quality. They're proudly made in the USA and they're razor sharp right out of the box and they're tough enough to last a lifetime. 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Your show has gotten you through a lot of chaotic times, so I really appreciate talking to you today. Well, it's a blessing that you called. I'm really grateful for you. Thank you so so much. What's up? Thank you. Sometimes my brain gets scattered, so I'll do my best to stand. I have no idea what that is like, so you're on your own. Keep me dialed in here. I'm wondering how I can break the generational cycle of codependency that I'm unintentionally recreating with my 16-year-old son while still giving him a strong sense of stability and security. Wow, what a powerful question. That's a great question. I wish more parents asked that question. Thank you. That's a scary question to ask, right? Yeah, I'm terrified. Alright, so tell me what's the most recent thing that happened that when you went to your room and closed the door, you thought, oh man, I'm doing it again. I have three sons, and I can put my elders up with the younger two sons, and my eldest son, I just give him a pass, or if he gets upset, then I feel like my body just goes into an anxious freezing, so I can't even parent. And I don't like that. I can't do what I need to do as a parent for him. I think it's probably because of my insecure use of things that our family's gone through. Are you a single parent? Are you married? I divorced his father about five and a half years ago, remarried two years ago. Okay. I am still regularly dealing with post-separation abuse from his father, which probably plays into this. It does, and I want to go back to one single word that you gave me, okay? Okay. And it sounds like even in this short minute and a half or two minutes we've been on the phone together, we already have a different set of beliefs. Okay, you ready? Yes. You told me the word, I can't. Mm-hmm. And I think I believe in you already more than you believe in yourself. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Because I think you can. How much guilt do you have? Did you file for divorce to get yourself out of an unsafe abuse of relationship? Uh, yes, I did. Okay. Hold on. You don't even have to apologize. You don't have to say nothing. I'm with you. Okay. You did the right thing. Okay. Thank you. I was like, at that time, I didn't realize it till at the time of the divorce when I was trying to stand up on my own two feet. I asked for support and independence from my parents. And at that time I realized I was co-dependent with my mom. And when I asked for support and independence, she kind of flipped my world upside down to you with a little bananas and I lost my family at that time as well. Okay. You may have challenges with co-dependency, but on this call, I want to humanize with your experience. And so I want us to put aside the clinical language for a second. Okay? Okay. How old are you? 42. Okay. You are right to want your mom. Okay. You're not crazy. There's nothing wrong with you. Okay. And when your whole world is blowing up, you're right to want your mom and your dad to have your back come heller high water. Thank you. You're not crazy. Okay. And if your parents put you in a position where you felt like they're going to have to go tell their friends at the church or the country club or wherever that their daughter is now a divorcee or a single mom. And so to protect themselves, they tried to get you to stay in an unsafe situation. I'm heartbroken for you because I was wrong. Thank you. That's what happened to you. I know it is. I can tell. I'm sorry. Yeah. Thank you. And so I also, I don't want to give you a pass, but I want to give you full permission to open your eyes fully and say, you found yourself in the middle of the ocean completely and totally alone and you clung to the person treading water with you that happened to be your son. Yes. Okay. Yes. And you know, I don't have to say it. I'm going to for the listeners, but you know that he can't carry you while he's trying to also tread water because his life blew up. Right. Yeah, I don't want him to carry my weight. I know that. I know that. And the fact that you reached out to grab the nearest person that felt safe, the only safe person you had left in the world, doesn't make you crazy. Okay. I never, ever, ever, ever, ever sit in judgment of somebody trying to survive. Okay. Yes. It's like your boat sinking and somebody standing on the shore critiquing your swim stroke as you came in. That's madness. Yes. Okay. Help that way. I know everybody did it to you. Okay. And I can tell you right this second, as a dad who is head over heels for his little girl, if my daughter ever finds herself with three boys in an abusive marriage, and she chooses to have the courage to leave, at that moment, everybody in that world is going to come through me before they get to her first. Because that's the way it's supposed to be. And I'm sorry that didn't happen for you. Thank you. Okay. Yes. All right. Now here's the hard part of this conversation. Question, I'm looking right at you through this camera lens. Okay. I can't see you, but I can hear you. Yes. The question is, what are you going to do next? I'm calling. I find, I know I need to change. I don't want them to carry this, and I don't want to have this going through his generation. And I don't know how to change my behavior with him. I got you on the tactics. I got you. I got you. I'll give you some things to do, but I want you to, whenever it starts feeling heavy, which is going to and scary and vulnerable yet again, I want you to remember this conversation that you feeling like you're treading water in the ocean alone, and you can't see shore, that feeling is right. You're not crazy. Okay. Thank you. It's not going to make it. It's not going to make treading water any easier other than you knowing, I will get to shore. And I'm going to get there barely able to take my next breath. Yes. Okay. So back all the way out of this. What's the state of your new marriage? Um, he's, um, wonderful and, but this is, um, affecting my new marriage too, because he wants to, he wants what's best for the kids. He wants to see them grow and develop and he can see that there's this co-dependency specifically with the oldest, my oldest son. And so he thinks that it's not fair to my son and I, I agree. Um, but we've been through so much that I don't know how to, um, I guess not nurture. Uh, I don't know the word. I don't know. I don't know how to act except for what I've been doing, but I know that my son needs to grow and I do too. Okay. Here's your path. You ready? Yes. Number one, I want you to tonight all by yourself or you know what this weekend, sometime in the next 72 hours, I want you to ask your new husband to step in and take the boys somewhere. Okay. Y'all go blow some money and go do something. Go for a walk or fish and go, I don't know, you're up in Ontario. So it may be like 44 below already. Go do something. Yeah. Okay. And here's your homework assignment and it's going to be a nightmare. Okay. Okay. Your homework assignment is to spend three or four minutes closing your eyes and taking yourself back to the attorney's office when he or she slid the paper across the table. It said, I'm, I'm signing this divorce decree. Okay. And I want you to do me a do yourself, not me yourself a huge favor. I want you to write that scared, terrified, exhausted, hurting woman a letter. Okay. And here's the gist of that letter. Thank you for keeping me and my kids safe. Thank you for doing the scariest, loneliest, most terrifying thing ever. Because that woman's a hero. And what I think is happening is you still hold her accountable for blowing up your kids lives. I do. And she didn't. She saved them. Your ex-husband blew up their lives by being an abusive, manipulative man. Okay. But you got to let that woman off the hook because she did a brave, noble, good thing. Okay. Okay. That's homework assignment number one. That's all for this weekend because that one's going to not be great. Okay. Okay. How old is your son? He's almost 16. They're all two years apart. Perfect. He is right at the right age. Okay. You ready for a step for homework assignment number two? Yes. You bring him and your husband and you find a place for your younger two boys to go play somewhere. Okay. And you read them that letter. Okay. That's hard. It's real hard. It's going to be terrifying. And if you, now that knowing that you're going to read it to him, if you aren't fully honest in that letter, your body's going to hang onto this. Okay. Okay. They have to know the truth and your 16-year-old can hold it. He's probably about 25 years old inside his 16-year-old little body, isn't he? Yes, he is. Yeah. Okay. And then that's going to be followed with, and this is scary and horrifying. And I'm going to get roasted in the comments and I could care less. Thank you. I want you to look at your 15, 16-year-old son and say, I'm sorry. Yeah. I have done that. I know, but I want him to contextualize how scared his mom was. Okay. Okay. And I want you to look at him and say, I'm not going to talk bad about your dad. But I was a scared mom and I have felt guilty ever since I separated to keep us all safe. Okay. And I want you to know I've clung to you and that wasn't fair to you. Yes. And I want you to tell the 16-year-old in front of your husband, I am going to begin practicing building new adult relationships. And you got to know those have gotten me hurt in the past. And he's going to say, because he's a good kid, Mom, it's okay. You're not all those things. And you're going to say, no, no, no, no, stop. My job is to love you, not clear the path in front of you, but to get underneath you so you can climb as high as you can want to climb. Okay. Okay. All right. And I want you to look at your husband and say, I'm giving you permission and I want you to give him a roadmap. Okay. And it might just be a gentle tap on your knee. It might be a wink when he sees it. Okay. And all you're asking him for is, I don't need your lectures. I don't need you. I don't need that stuff. I just need, I'm going to begin practicing. And I've never had to do this before. Okay. Okay. Yes. And here's your third homework assignment. You got to go make some girlfriends. Okay. And that's a nightmare for a 42 year old. Yeah. I just recently made one about four months ago and it's completely changed my life. She's wonderful. That's amazing. You need two or three. Okay. Oh gosh. I know. I know. Okay. And it be as brave as you want to be, but tell your new friend, hey, I want to build a small gang, invite one or two of your friends over. Okay. And this is about damn near impossible in the depth of winter in Canada. I understand that, right? I get this. Yeah. That's all right. But I don't want you to do another winter in the dark. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. And if he is a good man and he is awesome, as you say, and he is safe, I want you to grab your husband by the face and look him dead in the eye and he's going to be like, what are you doing? Be like, that's just the sound of a grizzly to freezing cold Ontario man in my mind. What are you doing? Maybe not. But I want you to look at him and I want you to look him in the eye and say, thank you for loving me and walking with me as I practice going all in on somebody else. Okay. Okay. But man, you are on the right path. And I think being very specific is really being specific about behaviors that you have identified, self-diagnosed yourself with as codependent. And I don't know what that is. And there's probably a litany of them. But if it's doing bedtime with your 16 year old, keep doing bedtime. If it is, you make him do X, Y, or Z, or he's who you go to and you're getting a fight with your spouse. All right. Then we need to get some adults that can carry that weight because he can't carry that. So it's being very specific and maybe bringing along your husband saying, is this a codip? Is this, is this? I've lost, I've lost my center here. And as I'm relearning how to walk on my own two feet is telling my son to come tell me goodnight every night. Is that codependent? No. You're his mom. Is wanting to be a part of bedtime? No, you're his mom. Take every one of those bedtimes as you can get. Is it, you can't date because you're mine. No girl's ever good enough for my boy. I'll just give you whatever money you need even though you're not working. Yeah. Cause I can't bear you not liking me for a night or two or three. Yeah. Now we're getting to some emotional challenges where he's got to prop you up and he's in control of the house and 16 year olds can't carry that weight. It's going to be, it's going to be a tricky, slow slog as you slowly walk out of the swamp and up on your own two feet on dry land. And I have a hundred percent belief you can get there. When you don't believe in yourself, when you start saying the words, I can't, I want you to remember my voice. I think you can. Keep pursuing that professional counselor. You got some unpacking to do, some bricks to set down. But I've got every belief in my guts that you can do it. Thank you so much for the call. We come back. A woman asks how to tell her mom about her son's diagnosis without receiving all of the conspiracy theory blame. This time of year, everybody's talking about getting more organized with less clutter, less stress. And why are we doing this? Because we want more peace. And here's one area I want you to focus on this year, your digital footprint. And that's why I recommend Delete Me. 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Hit the subscribe button or hit the share button, hit the like button, whatever it is, whatever device you're listening to this on, or watching this on. It just makes such a huge difference for future listeners of this show who don't even know we exist yet. Thank you for taking the time to do that. It makes all the difference in the world. It's got the Spokane Washington and talk to Sam. I am. What's up, Sam? Hey, Dr. John. Thanks for taking my call. Of course. Thanks for calling. What's going on? So, I'm wondering how I can tell my anti-modern medicine mother that my child has been diagnosed with autism without her spinning it into some sort of blame. Well, did you have Red Die 40 and Tylenol Sainte? I'm just kidding. Oh, gosh. Yeah. Can I tell you the worst news I can tell anybody today? Oh, sure. You can't do anything to change your mom's response. Yeah. And I'm sorry. Yeah. Thank you. How old is your son? He is four. And he's on the spectrum? Yes. Tell me about him. He is fantastic and has all sorts of amazing abilities, but has a speech delay as well as some fine motor issues and is otherwise in his own little world. But he's a wonderful kid. Any time I ask somebody about to tell me about their kid and the first words out of their mouth are as he's amazing or he's wonderful, I can't, my face automatically smiles because I think that's amazing. I want this. He's an amazing kid. Well, and I want that to remain the focus. Okay. Yes. The only path forward you have is to treat everybody regardless of their response with dignity and respect. And what I mean by that is don't let somebody's blame, grenade throwing or whatever allow you to be a person who violates your own values. Okay. And you can't own your mom's response. What you can own is the grief that in a moment having a special needs kid, it's heartbreaking, right? Yeah, it can be. Yeah. And every parent I've ever met of a special needs kid struggles with the question, what did I do? Or I did this to them. And now we're bombarded by media, by nonsense, by loved ones that confirms that madness, right? Definitely. That's an extraordinary weight for you and your son's dad to carry and I'm sorry. Yeah. Challenges with kids should be a point that all of us can rally around. And instead it's a, we've turned it into a way that we can feel superior and point fingers. Yeah. Man. And I'll even say this, your mom and dad should be the safe place for you to rest your head up against. I agree. Not a cactus. Right. And what that means is you're going to have to do the next right thing for you as an adult, which is I got to go find some adult friends that I can lean on. Because my parents have proven that they're not, they're not those people. Yeah. And I hate that for you. Yeah. But the path for you is telling your mom, hey mom, I need to tell you some hard news about Charlie, my son. I don't know what his name is. I just picked that name up. And here's what I need from you. I know you have very firm opinions on things about medicine and about conspiracy, whatever, however you want to frame it for her. What I need right now in this moment is my mom. Yeah. And then she, so what you're doing is like, it goes with the old business axiom to be unclear is to be unkind. I'm going to tell you, mother, a roadmap for what I want right now. And actually I'll even use the word need here because a daughter needs her mom in these kind of moments. I don't care how old you are. Right. I need you. And exhale. She's probably not going to be able to walk that road. No. Yeah. That means you get to be sad. Yeah, definitely. Is there other times in your life when you're younger, when you needed your mom to show up for you and she showed up with a wagging finger instead of open arms? All the time. Okay. All the time. So some of this is just rerunning a script that little girl, you has already run before, right? That's right. Okay. Can I ask you a hard question? Yes. Will there come a moment when you stop putting your hand back in the bag that you know has a rattlesnake in it? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. For whatever it's worth, you don't have an obligation to keep doing that. Okay. I just hate it for you. Me too. It's tough. Yeah. Because I need my mom. You're right. Okay. I'm glad you said it. Yeah. I'm glad you said it out loud and actually letting yourself feel that is where the healing begins. Yeah. I can't think about my own child with him meeting his mom. Yeah. Can you even imagine not being there with open arms? No. No, I'd be there in a heartbeat. Of course you would. And this is how family systems change. Because one person says, I'm not going to do it anymore. But that also means you have to turn and face the fire of your family system and you're going to get burned. You're going to get scars because it's painful. Yeah. You can't control her, but you can control you moving forward. And that's, I hate to say it's the best we can do in these moments. Yeah. It's going to ruffle some feathers for sure. What's that mean? Um, it's, um, I feel like it's going to, it's just going to cause a tantrum on her behalf, not mine, but on her behalf. And I think I'm anticipating the explosion. Yeah. But maybe for the first time in your life, you decided not hold yourself responsible for her tantrum. Because her tantrums have never been your fault ever, not one time. Never. My, my younger self would disagree. I know. Because your younger self had it made very clear to her that it was her job to make sure mom was okay. Definitely. And that was not your job. No. Your job was to be a goofy, making dumb decisions, sarcastic, explosive, whatever you were, a little kid. Yeah. All of those things and more, I'm sure. That's right. That's your job as a kid. Right. Where's your, where's your dad in all this? Um, he's a little more neutral. Um, obviously him and my mom are still married and everything. So they're, you know, they've, they've been married my whole life. And, um, he, he doesn't take as firm of stances as she does. Um, but she kind of takes the lead and, um, and all of that and health choices and things. It might be an important conversation for you to circle around to him and say, Dad, for the first time in my life, I need you to step up and be my dad. Okay. Like have that separately with my dad before my mom. I would. Okay. I have a better, I feel like I have a better relationship with him. So, um, And maybe you can be very direct with him and say, I don't have a picture. I don't have a psychology for a life. With a new son without grandparents. Yeah. But I can't carry the weight of being accused, being blamed, being, having fingers pointed at me. Yeah. And I need my dad. Right. And I know that he would, I know he would be desistated as, as his grandchild wasn't in his life. I know he, but he gets to make a grown up choice about that, not you. Right. Right. And he might need a very clear path. My son needs hugs. Your daughter needs hugs. Not, not internet emails about Tylenol. Now that one, that's exactly what I get in my inbox. I know. All the time from her. And maybe saying, mom, you've made yourself very clear. I don't want another email about it. Okay. Yeah. Setting firm boundaries is going to be really important going forward with her because she, um, she'll hover and she'll try to fix it and be all over it. And, um, and I, I know from when I was a kid, it's, I'm uncomfortable with what's going on with my child. So I'm going to do everything I can to fix it. So I don't have to think about it anymore. Right. And that's not how relationships work. They're not set it and forget it. No. They're minute by minute, day by day. And that's where the good stuff is. And that's where the hard stuff is. Yeah. Yeah. But there's something powerful about saying, dad, you're about to lose all of us. And I don't want that. And I don't think you do either. And maybe, maybe for his, the first time in his life, this gives me a lot of time. This gives him a path to stand up. Yeah. Now he can't make his, his wife do anything anymore than you can make your mom do anything, but. Right. He can sure say, I'm going to get in the car and go visit my daughter. Cause I want to hug that little boy. I want to hug my little girl who's now 40 or 35, however old you are. Right. Right. Right. Before you start throwing boundaries out, I want you to, to do an exercise with yourself. Are you married? I am. You married to somebody who's a good man? Yes. He's good? Yes, he's good. You hesitated. You promise? Oh, I promise. Okay. He's a good guy. I want you all before you start throwing out boundaries. The boundary is a fence line, right? Right. You want to decide what you want your home to feel like. Okay. Cause I think sometimes we build walls to protect ourselves, but then we sit inside these walls and inside the walls, it feels hollow. They become a prison. Okay. And so I want you all to plant gardens inside these walls before you build them on your land. And I'm making a metaphor. I'm just beating it to death here, right? I want you all to decide what do we want our house to feel like? What do we want our child's experience to be? It's going to be hard enough as it is without people throwing grenades at you. Or running in and trying to solve it. Or when your mom thinks her deep cut internet emails have more value than the ABA specialist in your local community. Right. And maybe shoot, I'm making something up here. I'm just, I'm, it's a fantasy at this point, but maybe giving your mom the purpose of, Hey mom, I don't need you to solve this. I've got this. We've got it. We've got some professionals in our area that are great. What I need is my mother and need her to be on my side. I need her hugs. I need her to text me and say, I love you and you're doing a great job. Yeah. Yeah. I don't need your suggestions to smear mayonnaise on the inside of his ears or some weird thing that you know what I mean. I don't know dude. It's just so great. It's so crazy that we've been having this conversation at this point. It would have to be dairy free mayonnaise. Avocado oil only mayonnaise. No, no, as long as it's not seed oils. So there you go. Oh yeah, those two. Those will get you. Oh man. I don't have a lot to add here. Sam, I'm just sitting here with you. Thank you. And maybe you tell your husband, Hey, there's going to be times that I need you just to hug me because I miss my mom. And I miss my dad. So on those days, I'm just going to say, I need to borrow your nervous system for a bit. I need to hold this hug a lot longer. And then Sam, you're going to have to go do the work of having some adults in your life that are 10 or 15 or 20 years down the road from you. Well, that's a couple. You meet at the local YMCA or I don't know at your local church. I don't know what stuff you do, but or maybe it's your in-laws, but you can't do that. You can't do all this alone. You need somebody there just with you celebrating how hard you're working. Somebody reminding you to take care of you. Somebody patting you on the back. Somebody saying, I see how hard you're working. And I see how amazing this little boy is with all of his quirks and challenges. My goodness. I can see that smile of his from space or whatever it is. Sorry you're going through this sister. Thank you for the call. Clear as kind here. And first establishing what we want our home to feel like. And let's reverse engineer the boundaries after that. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by better help. All right. As we head into the new year, I want you to take an inventory of all the stuff you're carrying, all the things you think you have to do, all the past hurts and pains along with all of the past guilt and shames, all of it. When the world feels heavy, it's important to look in the mirror and consider setting down all of that old weight and even consider not carrying it into 2026. Therapy can help you identify the heavy stuff, help you set it down and move forward with clarity so you can focus on the new year. And if you're thinking about therapy, I recommend better help. Better help has over 30,000 therapists and they're one of the leading online therapy providers on the planet. And they're trusted by millions of people around the world with an average rating of 4.9 stars out of 5. It's all online, so it's easy to fit in your schedule. To get started, you just answer a few simple questions and they'll connect you with a licensed therapist that fits your needs. And if it's not the right fit, you can change therapists at any time for no extra cost. You can't feel lighter without leaving behind what's been weighing you down. Visit betterhelp.com slash DELONI for 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash DELONI. Alright, we're back. I got a money in marriage question. We are fresh off. We're recording this just a few days after the November Money in Marriage event. And my goodness, what an amazing time that was. It was by far, I don't know. I say, I don't know, I do know. It was the best one of all time. It was amazing. We got it pretty dialed in. And by the time you hear this episode, I think we're into the new year a couple of days and it's probably sold out. But if it's not and you can still get your tickets to come to Nashville for the February, the Valentine's Day weekend event. My goodness, get them if you can. And if not, go ahead and get them for next October because 26, because my goodness, what an amazing weekend it is. I leave refreshed in my own life, but man, go check them out. RamseySolutions.com slash events. Go check them out. Here's a question somebody left. What kind of goals should we be setting for our family at the beginning of this year? Y'all know me. I love New Year's. I love goals. I love New Year's resolutions. One of my favorite things in the whole wide world. But I think you can't have good goals without two important things. A, a period of reflection. How did I do last year as a husband, as a dad, as a wife, as a sister, as a mother? And how did we do if you're married, it says family or so. How did we do together last year? Showing up for each other, showing up for these kids financially, right? So it's a season of reflection. How's our money? How's the stress in our home? How's the chaos? And the second thing I think is important is asking this question. This is from the great James Clear. Who do we want to be this year? I remember when I first started here doing media stuff, we had these meetings with these brand experts. And I got so frustrated. I was like, dude, I don't want a brand. I don't like thinking of that. That seems gross. And I remember the great Tim Newton, who leads our marketing efforts here at Ramsey. He said something that stuck with me. He said, hey, all a brand is, is who you are when you're not in the room. How do people experience you when you're not around? And that really hit home with me. And so when I'm not in the room, I want people to smile. I want them to drop, I want people to drop their shoulders. I want people to laugh. I want people to roll their eyes a little bit because that guy's kind of crazy. I, so I think that question for a family before you start setting goals. Who do we want to be this year? We want to be a family that comes home and exhales and it's just like, ah, we're home. All right. Well, then we're not going to sign up for 52 marathons and we're not going to sign up for dance classes and yoga classes and a new workout program. Because this year we want to be a family who when people come over, they go, my gosh, I don't want to leave. Or maybe it's, we want to be a family that's got some more excitement this year, some more play. We want to be a family who doubles down and conquers some financial goals. We want to, we want to get out of debt this year. And so we're going to reverse engineer our goals based on our identity, our brand. Who are we going to be this year? And then all goals are, it's a series of checkpoints, measurable checkpoints that say we're on the path to being who we want to be this year. And so before you set off, I want to run a marathon this year. I want you to ask yourself, who do you want to be this year when it comes to being a good steward of your body? Fitness. And how does that relate to an overall picture of we want to be a family of peace or a family that gets after it or a family that does a hard thing together this year? So number one, some reflection. Number two, that identity statement. Who are we going to be and who do we want people to, how do we want people to feel about us when we're not in the room, but we're not there? And then your goals will just simply be a path towards making that identity real, come alive. And so I think that the reason people set goals and resolutions and don't hit them is because they're not anchored to an identity. They're just anchored to a, I'm going to get up every morning at 4 a.m. and go work out. And that's a recipe for quitting. But if your identity is in 2026, I'm going to be a guy that does hard things every single day. I'm going to be a guy that sets an example for discipline in my home. I'm going to be a wife who wades through conflict. And finds one thing to celebrate about my husband every day, even when I have to look real, real hard through a pile of clothes and through dishes all over, like whatever it is, right? It's got to be anchored to an identity. So start there, start with reflection, start with identity, and then start back filling the goals and make 2026 the best year possible. I love you guys. I'm super, super grateful. See you soon. .