You Don’t Build Wealth by Ignoring Basic Financial Principles

This episode is filled with some of our best calls and advice, but unless you take what you hear and put it to work in your own life, you'll be stuck with the same money stress in 2026. So make a change and download every dollar today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman-Rachel Cruz, joins me. And we're here for you, Triple-8. 825-225-885-225 is the number to jump in, and we would love to coach you up today. We start off with Dan in Grand Rapids. Dan, how can we help you today? Hi, my wife and I are preparing to retire. I mean, if our current last day of work is tomorrow, my little wife will be beginning of February, so 40 years of effort towards this. Dan, how are you? Dan, I got to ask you this. This is, I mean, we men have to unite, because we don't do this well. We got Rachel here to help us on this before we dive in. What is the plan when she finishes the day tomorrow, and she wraps it up and comes home? Do you got something planned? You know, we don't. Dan. It came on pretty quick. We both had this date in February picked, and then her department dissolved, and they said you can either take a bio or you can transfer to another department, so it's all happened for her in the last three weeks. OK, but, plan a Dan. She's excited about this? Oh, absolutely. Dan, listen, I don't want to spend too much time on this. Rachel's here to back me up. This is where you got to step up. I mean, you got to do something special. She comes home, maybe a little surprise, if she hates surprises, plan a little something. At least a nice dinner. A retirement celebration. It's 40 years, babe. You're wrapping it up. We got to celebrate her. It's my point. I don't want to, and I'm glad I said this, Dan, because you might have blown it. Had I not brought this up? Yeah, you're very well. I appreciate that. She works at home, but I won't bring stuff home. You made it on your matter. She works, or what? OK, Rachel, what does he do in that situation? I feel like this is your category. Champagne. Pop the bottle. There. Right outside the door. Neither one of us drink, but I'm from Pop Point. We're striking out. Striking out. That grape juice, sparkling grape juice. OK, just do something special. All right, so we've now helped you. That's the help you didn't know you needed. Now. Yeah, that's what plus your marriage we got by. We work very hard to get where we're at, and we're very comfortable with what we're planning for. Retirement. We're very comfortable with our financial advisor. But I have one concern that he's got me a plan that he's got for me. We are going to put an addition on our house next spring. So we're planning to spend about 100 to 120,000 to do that. Now, my plan was just kind of take that off the top of our 401K and our savings and make that do the addition. What he's suggesting, and he gave me, I guess, good reasons. Is he suggesting that I take out like a heat lock or a home equity loan to do this project? And he said, well, chunk it away pretty quick. But he said there's reasons for that. First of all, I'll be paying a lower interest rate than he can make me. That's arguable. The second thing he said was it is definitely the attacks right off. And the third thing was the fact that it'll save me $20 plus $1000 next year in taxes because of the tax bracket that he's aligning us with. And it just, it's very hard for me to think about going into debt immediately as I retire. Well, yeah, 100% because he is, he, what, where is he planning on having you guys pay off the heat lock? When he said you can throw a bunch of, like a bunch of money at it, is he thinking just a little bit every year so that you don't mess up the taxes and all of it? Yeah, he said, well, chunk it away. And I don't know how relevant chunk it away is if it's a year or five years, but he said, well, just make a monthly payment on it. And again, that it'll give us a tax advantage. It'll save us taxes and all this, which all kind of makes sense. But dang it, you know, just got myself 40 years of work to get out of debt and retire and then just think about going back to the debt just got a stir. Well, some financial advisors are so stupid. They don't even think about your values and what you want out of life. And clearly, living a debt-free life has a price tag for you. You know, you can't put a price on it, but you know, it's a value of yours that he's not putting into any consideration. And so as he goes around, but so Michael, yeah. So no, I would not do this. I would 100% just cash flow it. And if the cash flow comes out of, I don't know if it's the 401K if you guys have money elsewhere. But you have the ability to cash flow, right, Dan? You guys. Yeah, we got a set amount that we're going into retirement with and we're comfortable with and it's going to last this long beyond our retirement. Yeah. And just thinking of taking that 100 or 120 right off the top of that and doing the addition was my plan. And so let's just put your plan. I've offered a suggestion. Yeah, I want to put your plan to the test, not his suggestion. We hate his suggestion. We hate it. So let's put your plan to the test. Let's assume that you didn't get this advice at all. Okay. And you just went ahead and pulled the trigger on your plan. How do you feel emotionally about your plan? Any stress? I know. I don't think so. It's kind of intentionally. We have this 403B that we've been carrying for a long time and I've been very aggressive with it. And I took it from 20,000 to it's about 170 right now. So my thought was that is just some play money. We've been actually not planning on that we've accumulated that would do this project for us. Yeah. And I would just, well, we raised seven kids in our house and it was fine with nine people. But now what we find is with adult children. Instead of nine people every day, we have 29 people, you know, 10 times a year. So we want to double our kids in and our living room. Sure. How much, how much do you guys, have in retirement total? I just about two million. Okay. Colley. Yeah. See, and he's going through all these hoops and stuff about this and then that, you guys have two million dollars. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And you want to take 100,000 of it. And if you go and burn that amount in the middle of the room, like you're not going to have any emotion towards it, because it's such a small percentage of your net worth. So that's where the peace of mind of your value system overrides his snaking and maneuvering through. What words are you going to be not leaving that much money at the end of the day? Do you know what I'm saying? I agree. So you answered your own question. I asked it that way just simply for you to hear yourself say, his plan gives me a little bit of heartburn, enough that the Pepsi A C's not working and you called us today, right? It did, yeah. Right. I think I knew where you were going to take me, but I just kind of wanted to hear it. Yeah, and I appreciate that. And we're happy to be here for you. But you, sir, are the ultimate arbiter on this. Your body, your heart, your head. And man, you're just like, man, if I can put this addition on, I'll pay you cash for it for my grandkids to be there. Yeah, and I would run the numbers too, because I am curious, because he looks like the rates go up and down. Like it really is very dependent upon what's going on. No, don't run the rates at all. I don't want you to be tempted. No, no, it's not a temptation, but it's that versus what, you know what I mean? That versus the taxes that you're going to pay on a hunt. Like what I'm saying is I think it ends up being closer to a wash than what you realize. I think that the guy, I think he's like, picking every little thing to say, I'm making the number up. I haven't done the calculations, but to save 10, whatever the thing is. And that's pennies to you guys. So I'm like, the peace of mind is worth that so much more. Yeah, just listening to you describe everything he told you versus your plan. Yours is simple. Boom. We're done. We're done. And do you go, do you all have a mindset kind of make sense? Do you? Yeah, do you have money elsewhere, Dan, where to his point, do you have money sitting in a high yield savings or something where you wouldn't necessarily have to pay taxes if you use that cash? We have about a $40,000 savings. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 4041 K. I have a lump sum pension and a 403 B. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Nope. That's great. Yeah. No, I would not go borrow on my house to do an addition when I freaking have the money for it. Yeah. That's that's the bottom line. Trust your gut, Dan. There's a whole bunch of science on this that trusting the gut is not this mysterious thing. It's actually the brain sending physical signals to the body and it we feel it in our body. That's a real thing. It has the same validity as the logic. Listen to your heart, listen to your body. You were right. Thanks for calling. Tell the financial advisor. Thanks for no thanks. The holidays are supposed to be joyful, but they can also be expensive between gifts, travel and about a thousand limited time offers. Your budget can start feeling anything but Mary. And that's why I love this. Boost mobile helps you treat yourself and your wallet. Right now, you'll pay just 10 bucks a month for your first two months. Then only 25 bucks a month for unlimited talk, text and data forever. No price hikes, no contracts, no nonsense, just reliable service that keeps your phone bill low and your holiday spirits high. So stop stressing over your budget and start saving instead. Go to boostmobile.com slash Ramsey and unwrap the savings today. That's boostmobile.com slash Ramsey restrictions apply. See boostmobile.com slash Ramsey for details. Well, you know, some days we have a fabulous audience. Most days for the show, we have a fabulous audience comes to the lobby here at Ramsey Solutions and we can see these fine people looking through the glass. We go out and say hi and all that kind of stuff. And today happens to be a birthday day. We've had a lot of birthdays. And so we had young Millie who was 28 and now we just met the fabulous Carol who just turned 80 a couple of days ago and she's got the team out there and notice the glasses. She's got a sash. What do you call that? A sash. She's got a tiara and she's got these fabulous glasses James. She's waiting this right now. And she, by the way, Carol looked as though she was in shock, James. She's very embarrassed by all the attention. And so one of the party that she's with loaned me their glasses. So I wanted to say a special happy birthday to you, Carol. So great. Fabulous. You don't look a day over 50 and we're very blessed that you're here and and they're about to hit the town. They're going to go to you should meet them at broad on Broadway. Actually, I'm going to ask James if I can take the rest of the show off and I'm just going to have you ready to play Benny and the Jets or something. I know. Yes. Benny and the Jets. So there you go. There you go. How about that? Very fun stuff. So happy birthday again. So fun. So fun when people spend their special day with them. I know. We get anniversary at honeymoon sometimes. That's always the craziest one. So I'm like, I can't believe you're here on your honeymoon. So what are you doing here? The Ramsey show question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi. Why Refi offers a different approach to paying off your defaulted private student loans with a low fixed rate for less stress. Go to whyrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter why are EFY.com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Aiden and New Mexico. My wife is a contract business consultant and is also self employed as an artist. When it comes to paperwork, she's very disorganized. It has gotten to the point where I have taken my tax documents to a tax preparer twice because I didn't want the IRS auditing me. I beg her every year to get her stuff together and to file on time, but it never happens which leads to arguments. How do I get her to understand the seriousness of this situation? Oh. That's tough. Well, it's taxes. Back to taxes. Yeah. But you got to do it. Yeah. That's what I was going to say. So this is a relationship issue. But in this situation, it's not you coming to the table with a hey, let me tape out these baby steps. Let me tape out this Ramsey plan. I'd like to get us on a budget. Like, this is the federal government. Is this the law? Yeah. There's a wiggle room here. So it seems like it needs to be a reality check. This isn't trying to get her on board. This is like, we will go to jail. This is the law. And I don't think I look good in orange, sweetheart. You know, or whatever you got to say here, it comes back to a relationship thing. But I hate to make it so simplistic. I want you to weigh in. But I think it is, hey, this is super serious. This isn't my opinion. We have to do this. Let's make this a lot less difficult by let's get all our stuff together and be on the same page. Yeah. And I think that's a fair point. When you are an artist, there is a little bit more of a free spirit within you, right? Members is usually not your strength. And vice versa. People that are great with numbers are terrible usually being creative. So it's a, again, it is how you were wired and gifted. And then I think it is a self-aware adult to say, hey, I have things and weaknesses in my life. And in my personality, I'm going to be an adult. I'm going to have to obey the law. But also what systems can I put in place to help me in those weaknesses? Because I'm not naturally good at all of this, right? She's very disorganized as what he said. So that would be more of the conversation of, hey, what can we do to help you? It's not a point, the finger at you constantly. It is, hey, yeah, this is the law. So it has to be done. So what systems can we put in place together? And as a husband, I'm here to help you. And he's on his own, where I'm just taking my tax documents and go over here, which I get because he doesn't want to go to jail either, right? So he's got to hedge it as bad. Yes, seriously. But I think it is, hey, how can I help us help you put some systems into place? But there is a point that she has to be an adult, right? You can be on that. You can carve a situation in a conversation a certain way to a point. But there's also a point came with all of this, especially the law. Within other things of like, my wife just continues to spend more. There's just a point that like, you, you're not able to change that person and they have to be the adult and it's sad when they're not. But we see that a lot around here. It's a really tough situation. Thanks for sharing the question with us. Knoxville, Tennessee, the home of Rachel's alma mater. Sam is there. Sam, how can we help? Yes, I have a question for you, uh, regarding to my truck. Um, have a, uh, uh, uh, two thousand one truck and it just rolled out of warranty. Uh, I intend to keep the truck for a longer period of time, or at least I hope so. Um, and was offered an extended warranty by the dealership. And so what I did is. Add it up all of the cost of repairs that wouldn't have been covered or were covered by warranty that no longer would. And it came out to about 8800 bucks in, uh, four years that I've owned the truck. So it hasn't been necessarily super reliable, uh, very expensive to repair. And as I intend on keeping the truck or want to keep the truck, I kind of want to explore my options. Uh, should I buy this warranty, uh, for $5,600, uh, should I risk it, continue driving the truck for another 100,000 miles, uh, without warranty, or should I go out and get a new truck with a fresh warranty? Uh, what, what's your opinion and kind of just want to gager direction to go in? What's been the repairs? I mean, about 2000 a year is what ends up being. What has it been? Yeah. It's really a little stuff to be honest with you. It's, uh, the motor and the tailgate. It's got one of these automatic tailgates. It was the air conditioning control module and the bash. It was a sensor, uh, in the, I guess the parking sensor system. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm concerned about, go ahead. Go ahead. Well, I was going to say, I mean, you know, as you kind of look through this from a math perspective, it's less than like 200 bucks a month is what it ends up being. It was just feels expensive. Like if the stuff isn't being fixed, like that's one issue. Um, but I'm not a big fan of extended warranties because I'm like, it's, uh, I'm not a big fan of the thing. The thing should work. And if not, I would rather it be in my court. I get, unless there's some crazy recall right now, Sam, and they're like, you know, given you some discounts on the extended warranty or whatever it may be. But, um, I, we usually factor in cars. We have a sinking funds that we've set up that if anything goes wrong with the cars, we use that sinking fund. So again, for yours, it's coming out to be around $200 a month. So I would probably just set some money aside. And then hopefully most of this gets fixed because I mean, the fact that you're keep going in and in for repairs is that's frustrating. Yeah. No, you're right. And, um, for me, it's not really a money issue. Um, you know, the truck's paid off. Um, right, the 200 bucks a month is really negligible based on our income. It's more kind of a, uh, I guess it's psychological. You'll do I keep throwing money at a truck. Um, no, that's a different question. That's where I came down. Yeah. That's where I came down. I agree with everything Rachel said, I'm going to come down on this one and go, I'm the kind of guy. This is the way I'm wired where I'm, I'm not going to keep dealing with this truck. I'm going to go, this thing's a lemon or it's an issue with the manufacturer and they just don't do a good job making the parts and I'm just tired of this mess for me because I, in your situation, I would be in the same boat. Any mechanical work I got to do, I'm not stressed out about it. I got the money set aside, whatever, whatever, whatever. But it's like, it's time. Time is money. Remember that old phrase? It's a 2001. Sam, is that what you said? Yeah, it's a 2001 with 80,000 miles on it and it's a hybrid and I don't know if you kind of look into some of these hybrid issues, but if the hybrid motors or the battery. Is it a 2021 or 2001? No, 2001. I didn't know they were making hybrids in oh one. No, it's a 2021. No, 2021. Oh, yeah, you kept saying, oh one. I was like, man, they were ahead of their game. I know. I know. I couldn't spell hybrid. I know. Okay. So 2021, that makes way more sense. I was like, I get rid of it. I'd sell it. I'd sell it. Okay. And that's somebody else's problem. And I'd go get myself a truck that had a much higher rating that I'm not in the shop all the time. And again, it's just the nick. These are like little paper cuts. It feels like what a nuisance, man. I'd be like, why would I buy your warranty? How about you make a better truck? That's what I'd have said to the dealer, but I can be sassy that way. But I feel like that's true. Yeah, absolutely. I got an idea. Why don't you make a better truck? I don't need all this warranty because all the stuff seems like it's a little piddly stuff. So you got the cash. I'd get rid of the nuisance, let it be somebody else's problem. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies. And there's two little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of ripoffs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options and they've been around for over 95 years. So you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can too. Visit zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, Rachel Cruz is alongside and we are here for you, AAA825-5225-8255-225. Henry's up next in Tampa, Florida. Henry, how can we help? Hi everybody. Thank you so much for taking my call. How are you guys? Good. How are you today? I'm alright. I have a question for you. Quick and easy question but I mean not easy question but I have a lease that I just I purchased in the last year or two there but I just heard about you guys. The lease is for the next two more years left on it there. I'm wondering if I should ever get out of it, pay out of the lease there to get some money, not listen money back there but pay a lease there. I mean sell the car or get out of the lease to be able to pay lower pay some of my debt. Yeah, it's a great question. What are you paying a month? 1500. Oh. What kind of car is that? Mercedes GL-E 350. And G-Hell's pretty nice. Very nice car. Good taste, Henry. You got some good taste. Thank you very much. Thank you. But it's eating you alive and it's not worth it. Yeah. We got it. We got to get it out of here, right? Okay. Yeah, I just I got a lot of. Give us the terms of where you walk us through the terms. All right. So if I were to terminate my pay off right now, be about 60, $60,000 there to pay off there. I've looked on I've heard you guys talk about it. So I look on the carry blue duck and it's about you get $46, $46, $47,000. Okay. And then was that private sale? So and I was that private sale. Yeah, so I'll leave you with 13,000 that you would owe, right? Yeah. Yes. And do you have any cash, Henry? Not much. No. Okay. What do you make a year? So I make about $250,000. Oh, that's good news. Yeah, that's great. So you would need another car, correct? Correct. To be able to, yeah, to replace it. Yeah. So we've got to replace it. So we got the 13,000 that you would then owe and then we've got the cost of a replacement car. But with your income, you can get something decent if you really work on your budget, right? Yeah. That would be my goal because two more years of this. Oh. I mean, that's a lot, right? So it's a good amount. Yeah, for sure. So that's because I mean, according to you guys, I mean, I was the first time I ever took it like that. I'm broke, but I do owe, I have a good amount of debt as well too. We'll very many dollars debt. Okay. So tell me, yeah, give me the rest of your financial picture. I'm just curious where you're at. So I stood at loans, $180,000 credit card debt about 70,000. Okay. And then mortgage is about $690,000. Okay. Whew, Henry, you've been living the life, haven't you? Yes, me, my wife. Not in. So I guess, let me rephrase that because I know you mentioned total income. My wife is making $100,000. So total is $350,000. Okay. You guys have plenty of money. You just got to get under control. Yes. And you know, I'm just the thing too, they're trying to go from that life to hearing about you guys and changing. I know. Totally. I'm like, let's go hard. And my wife is like, what are you talking about there? So, you know, it's definitely different and hard there to actually talk to her about it as well. So just the budget. Yeah. Yeah, totally. And I think Henry too, just as a piece of advice usually when, you know, when people are in your position, the one that kind of hears, okay, there's a different way we can do this. And you go in and tell your wife, we're going to stop shopping and stop eating out. She's probably like, what the, Henry, what are you talking about? You've lost your mind. So I think approaching her in that aspect is the why. So I am curious, Henry, for you, what, what has caused you up to this point, living the way you have with money, both of you. And then you hear us, which is very counter how you've been living, what's been appealing about that? Like, what is it in you that's like, oh my gosh, I want that side of money, not what I've been doing. The idea of freedom. Yeah. I'm like, I'm like trying to talk with you, but I'm like holding my breath and like the heaviness of just throwing so much money. Like the fact that I'm like, wait a second, I've never thought about how much I owe and how much debt I've been in. I have always been thinking about right now, how much I owe for the month. And I'm like, this is like, when I calculate it all after talking to you guys, or listen to you guys, I was like, I owe a million dollars, like, right in the world. Yeah, yeah. And so, and I'm like, I can't do this anymore, especially when the wife said, oh, I'd love to have a new summer kitchen. And I'm like, what are you talking about? We have no money for that. Yeah, that's right. That's right. So Henry, that's what I want you to communicate to her is, I can't breathe. Like, I, and we hear that a lot, Henry, you're not the only one. It's, it's this level of stress and anxiety and weight because you don't own your life. Somebody, these credit cards, right, everything owns you. And it's exhausting to your point. Yeah. We work hard. And I feel like I have no money, right? When I ask you how much money you have saved, it's like, I don't have it. And we were so much hard, like, over time sometimes to it. I'm like, how do I, and I'm like, having nothing at the end of the paycheck here? I'm like, right. Is this what everyone does? I don't understand this. Right. Exactly. So how much do you guys bring home a month? I was trying to do it with taxes and everything. But when, when you guys get paid, how much per month are you bringing in both you and your wife? So I think I'm about 12 to 13,000. Okay. And she is about 4,000. So I would say about 16,000, 17,000, 16,000. 16,000. Okay. And that's after taxes. Are you guys funding retirement? Yes. Um, wait a second. We have a few. Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You make $350,000 a year. You do. Yes. I know. Yes. So total. Total. So, so I don't understand those take home numbers. What is your take home? Yours, just you. You have just me about 16, 16,000. I'm sorry. 12,000 for me. And you're off of, because you act about putting into retirement. Yes. I'm putting into retirement. Yeah. Off of gross. So what's your gross? Your gross and her gross. Total gross is 350. Right. Your 250. She's so I. She's 100. And then after taxes, retirement insurance, like after all of that, right? What did you just felt like her take home was really low off of a $100,000 salary. Her take home only being 4,000. Yeah, that's true. Low to me. So I just don't know if you know your numbers. And the only reason I'm calling that out is part of this problem is you don't really know your numbers. Yeah. Yeah. Or she's having way too much withholding taken out. And at this point, you're brand new to us. Rachel, explain the retirement should be paused and all of that right now to bring in as much as they can. Yeah. For sure. So, yeah. So, so Henry, the whole concept you guys really need to dig in because if you're getting a big tax refund every year, that's money back in the paycheck that may not be shown here. I would be pausing retirement. I'd be pausing everything. And you and your wife again sitting down and saying, hey, together, it's really hard to do this without her. So I want Henry to be as honest and vulnerable with her tonight and just talk about how scared I mean, how scared you are honestly. You guys are in the full of me. Do I know we can't we'll coach you. We'll coach you. No, but probably should have had her on this call. Yeah. And to show her and show her the realization and the truth is, Henry, for your own mental sake, you can't, you guys can't keep doing this, right? I mean, you're going to get hit at breaking your point eventually. And so for you guys, it's going to look different. And so I would sit down with her and just say, hey, here's where I want to go. Here's the goals I want to have. And you can kind of map them out ahead of time just to say, okay, we have, gosh, yeah, almost, almost a million dollars, not including the mortgage, but the credit cards, the student loan, all of it, mapping it out to say with our income and doing a budget and saying, if we just cut everything and Henry, to your point, this is going to be a 180 from the lifestyle you guys have been living. You've been living kind of the high life and enjoying life. And it's going to get out of this. We always say you can wander your way into debt. You cannot wander your way out. And so there has to be an intentional plan. But, but gosh, I mean, in, you know, three or four years, you guys could have a completely different life financially speaking. I think so. And you getting a side hustle, Henry. Love that. Yeah, adding, you know, adding more income and all of that. So you know, if you stay on the line, Henry, Christian is going to pick up and we're going to give you financial peace university for you and your wife to sit down together and go through it. It's our nine lesson course. And this gives you the basics. And so it can be she can get mad at us. Not you. And Henry, I would say this. I think do what Rachel said as far as your approach to her, but I think you need to show her you mean business by you getting rid of that car. That will show her. Uh, you're not just talking. Get it out of here. You're making some sacrifice. And then one of these days, you'll be driving one of those bad boys again, but it'll be cash. This is the Ram Jisho. This episode is sponsored by Better Health. All right. The holidays you're here and the holidays are full of traditions. Some of these traditions we love, some of these traditions we just tolerate. In addition to the traditions, this time of year can also bring a lot of noise, pressure and even loneliness. Maybe this is your cue this year to slow down and ask yourself what really matters to me right now and moving forward. Therapy gives you space to do just that to think, to breathe and to make room for peace. And if you're thinking about therapy, I want you to check out my friends at Better Health. They've got more than 30,000 licensed therapists and they've helped over five million people worldwide with an average rating of 4.9 out of five stars. Better Health is totally online so it fits around your schedule even during the chaotic holiday times. You just get online and answer a few questions and Better Health will match you with someone who fits your needs. And if the therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, start a new tradition by taking care of you. Visit betterhelp.com slash ramsy to get 10% off your first month. It's BetterHelpHELP.com slash ramsy. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. When it comes to your money, Ken, one of the largest purchases that majority of people make is their home. And when it comes to buying and selling your home, it can be very overwhelming, right? The whole housing market, the industry, when it comes to real estate, it can be really hard to tackle, especially alone. So that's why we created Ramsey's real estate home base. It's a place with all the tools and resources that you need to be prepared when you buy and sell your home. And to give you the confidence that you're doing it the right way. So there, you're going to find calculators, start to finish guide, multiple of them to help you how to articles a podcast, a book, and even a video course all packed with actionable steps to help you navigate this process of buying and selling your home. So if you're ready to take the next step towards your home goals with peace of mind, make sure to go to ramsysolutions.com slash real estate, or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. All right. Up next, we're going to Diego in Sacramento. Hey, Diego, welcome to The Show. Hi, thank you. Absolutely. My wife and I just, oh, sorry. My wife and I just had a baby and we've been having a discussion about opening a college account from the 529 and my wife's on the side of saving as much as we can enough to pay for his whole college tuition. And I'm more on the side of maybe not doing that just because for me, when I went to school, I didn't have that and I think it built a lot of character in myself. You know, my parents, they provided a place for me to sleep. They didn't charge me to rent and they provided food for me every day. So I felt like I was really blessed at what they gave me and what they could. And I felt like it built some character in me. I worked through school and showed me the value of money and how, what I'm paying for for school. It just shocked me to value it. I just wanted to get you guys a thing and whether maybe there's a middle point between my wife and I or maybe she just avoided all together or saving all of it that we can. You got to get them. Well, I think this comes down to Rachel. How big of a stressor this is for you guys when you talk about it. Are you both pretty adamant and it gets kind of tense and there's a lot of separation or you guys a couple of more conversations from going, okay, I see it your way. What's the real tension level now on this? Oh, super low. I mean, we're very good about communicating. We've never had a problem with that. So when you told her, you were fighting. Is she agree with you and go, that's interesting or does she go, it's too old school I want to help? No, she says, yeah, pretty much you're saying, yeah, she would prefer us having more, you know, better means that our parents did it. She's saying like we should, we should. Yeah, so let me tell you Diego, you're the way you're going about this and your heart and your thought process. I really love because I do think that our kids have to have grit. Our kids have to have a level of struggle. Our kids have to be able to know how to appreciate things, not be entitled, know how to work hard, right? Like all of these elements of who they're going to be, the character part of them, we all want as parents, right? Or at least I hope parents want that for their kids and that's what you're wanting, right? And so what you're thinking is you're going to do it through the means of paying for their own college. So where I would challenge you is, are there other places that they can learn those same character qualities and also be able to have their college paid for? Because Diego, my parents paid for my college and I'll tell you, there was stipulations around it. And so we had to go to an in-state school. We had to graduate in four years and that was kind of the main barriers. So I remember thinking, you know, I went to go to Auburn University and I weren't sad. I was like, all right, well, calculate the tuition and the difference between a school and Tennessee, a public university in Tennessee minus the tuition of a school in Alabama, you pay the difference. And I looked and I was like, no, thanks. Go balls. I'll go and stay. And then it was, all right, well, now I have to take 15 hours every semester while some of my friends were taking nine. So, you know, because people will graduate a semester late or a year later and they kind of just like worked the way through. I had to be on a school, you know what I mean? Like, I had to have that schedule. So I think it's a misnomer to generalize if your school is paid for, you're not going to have hard work and grit. I don't think that's true. I think it's a way that you feel that Winston, my husband, you know, he had to work his way through not the tuition part but everything else. He had to figure out, he had to have a job to pay rent and pay for food and all of that, right? So, but I, so I think that there are ways to accomplish what you want for your kids and it may look different. Now I'll give you one more example, now I'll be quiet and like, can jump in. But like for us right now, Diego, we have a 9, 7 and 5 year old and Winston sold his lawn mower about three years ago and we have a lawn company's mower lawn and he really, really struggled with our kids not growing up watching him mower the lawn because he had a lawn care business in college and he was like, I want my kids to see, physically, I want, you know, he was so hard on that. And I'm self on that. But then as we talked, he was like, but right now my time is better spent with them on Saturdays than going and doing that. What are ways now that we almost have to manufacture a life where they don't get what they want? They're going to have to work and do things to get what they want. So does that make sense? I just don't want to over generalize that if your college is paid for, you're going to be some spoiled entitled brat because let me tell you, there probably are some spoiled entitled brats who's college is paid for and isn't paid for but it's more of the character of who they are and yeah. And maybe it's revealed to them. And I'm glad you really segwayed nicely for me. You didn't even know. I'm going to throw a different angle at you Diego because on one hand, I love the fact that you're going, I don't, I don't owe my kids a college education and I don't think you do. But I'm not going to qualify this. I'm just going to say this and this comes from experience. Diego, just because you worked your way through college and you took all the benefits that you obviously did, doesn't mean that your child or children are going to do the same as you. They aren't you or number one. They really aren't. They aren't you. They will have some of your DNA but they are not you and they will have different experiences. They will have different environments growing up. And I think one of the challenges that we face and I'm just being really vulnerable here that I've had to learn as a father of three is that the things that I did, the things that I learned, the way that I handled life is so unique to me. And I know I'm saying something that's completely obvious but I think we forget this. And I would just say that in this case, if you played this out, the way that you desire, let's say your wife just went, I love that Diego. Let's do that. There's a really high, high probability that one or both are all of your kids. And I remember many of you have, won't deal with it the way that you dealt with it. And they may go, dad's out of his mind, the old coot. He's a goofball and I'm going to go get a student loan. And because I can and they get it done so effortlessly. And the very thing that you idealized and kind of thought, this is how I see it going, it would even break your heart. And so to that end, I would say if you can fund it, you should. As an option in the 529 as we teach, I'll give it back to my partner here. It's very, it's flexible as to how you can use those funds for lots of qualifications because the world, here's the other thing. The world's changing. The world is changing so quickly right now. What will higher ed look like when these babies are to that age? You and I have zero clue what it's going to look like. So I hope that perspective helps you. I don't think it's as easy as you just going. This is how I want to be because that's how it was for me. And I get that if anybody gets that believe me, I actually talk like that sometimes. I just want to be well. I'm trying to be transparent. I think that's true. And I think and again, I want to reiterate Diego, the sentiment of what you're longing for your kids to have is so good. Like that is so good because we want our kids to be able to do that. But I think that there is. I'm like, there's there's different other and there's so much between and like, have them pay for their car when they're 60 right? I mean, like there's things you can implement. Have them try and instrument away, but a sport, a hobby, let them fail. And they're going to and the world's hard enough in general, right? I'm like, they're they're going to bump up against it. But I think you can create an environment with your within your home between now and 18 that creates, you know, I knock on wood. I believe this and I hope it's true. You know, not perfect kids, but kids that you are able to shape. Under your household and you as a parent get to put some of those guard rails in place. And if you give them everything they want, are they going to be more spoiled? Sure. If they got to work and figure out and problem solve, then that's going to be good for them too. So I think there's ways you can do it. But thanks for the call, Diego. Thanks for all the guys in the booth. Thank you, King Coleman. Thank you, America. We'll be back. There's no better time to start protecting your home than right now. This month only my listeners can take 50% off any new simply safe home security system during their last chance Black Friday sale. Do not miss this deal. I've recommended simply say for over 10 years and it's simply the best security system you can get for your home. That's because simply safe helps stop crimes before they start. Their AI cameras detect threats early and then live agents stop them by speaking directly to intruders letting them know they're being watched and that the police will be dispatched. Simply safe stands behind their security with an anti theft guarantee and no long term contracts. That's why simply safe was named the best home security of 2025 by US News and World Report. So don't miss simply safe's biggest sale head to simplysafedirect.com and claim 50% off today that simply safe direct dot com there's no safe like simply safe. Welcome back to the Ramsey show coming to you from the fair winds credit union studio alongside Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman so excited to be with you today and we want to coach you up triple eight eight two five five two two five and that is joining us now in Fort Worth Texas and to net how can we help. Well, I'm going to be 62 next month and I don't have anything safe for retirement and I want to become the first time home owner and I don't know if that's you didn't ridiculous or is it possible. Well, I don't think it's stupid or ridiculous let's focus on the possible part give us a picture of your financial situation given that you have zero retirement or very little retirement. I know retirement and I have no money for a down payment so I would have to go to us the or set five cents of what the zero down and so that was make my payments even higher. No, you don't have to do that. You don't have to do that. Do you have any debt. Yeah, perhaps not an advantage and I'm getting paid off really quick. How much that do you have. I think credit car must be that I had about eight thousand dollars or something like that. I'm just paid off six hundred dollars worth of two of my count in the last month. So is the eight thousand credit cards or personal loans. What is it. Let's see, I paid off the personal loan and so one of them is my car and the rest of my credit cards I've got I think four credit cards. How much is in your car. Do you owe on your car. Oh, gosh, I can't remember. I'm really glad with money. I mean numbers and so I just know that I just got it two months ago and I had to trade in my other car because it was a twenty nineteen. I was a little bit more comfortable and it didn't convert anymore and the chemical it was sound but everything else on it was falling apart. So I had to get rid of it. Now that's what I found on it because the last year it was worth seventy thousand dollars and then this year it was worth five thousand dollars. So I was really let's put down on it and so I owe more on the I had to get a mini van because I'm so popular. I can't have a convertible. So I'm on the van and then really I should. So I did you roll over the negative equity on the convertible. Yes, into the minivan. Okay, so how much do you owe on the minivan. I don't know. You don't know internet you signed a loan. You don't you don't know how much the total is. All right, all right, all right, she had to go to credit caramel and the other thing. So one of our problems Antoine is you don't have a firm grasp of your numbers. Yes, she already said she's back with them but it's not okay. I can't remember numbers. Oh, but it's not about that. It's about do you have a file over in your house somewhere where we get the car information. Yes, but I'm a truck driver so my house is like two thousand miles away. Why do you need a mini van if you were driving a truck all the time? I'll go home sometime. And you're popular so you and the ladies are hopping in the minivan. Okay, all right. I'm trying to catch up here. I'm trying to figure out honestly if we can sell the minivan. What year's the minivan? What year? Well, I had to go for a let's see here a two thousand and twenty three I think. Okay, yeah, all right. And with the negative back, I mean this could be thirty forty thousand dollars. So, okay, so Antoinette. I want to paint you a picture yesterday on the show. We had a truck driver Christopher. He paid off all of his debt and he has hundred I mean tens of thousands of dollars. I mean, he's just absolutely killing it and he's a truck driver. He was telling us he had a Subaru brand new ended up selling it had some you know, had to take out a small loan because it had gone down and he was upside down a little bit. About an eight thousand dollar Lexus the Lexus gets hit. He gets a check from the insurance company for nine thousand. He ends up buying a two thousand dollar car takes the rest of that and throws it at the debt. Right. So there's a way to do this and even someone in your industry, we literally just talked to him. He did his debt free screen yesterday. Here's the thing. And so the excuse that I am bad with numbers can't be an excuse anymore. Okay. You are an adult. You are smart. You are capable. And we have to get this under control. So the first thing I need you to do when we hang up is I need you to call the dealership or the credit. Wherever you get the loan for the van, I want you to pull up the credit card again and know exactly exactly which credit cards are out there. And know exactly what you owe on them and companies. I want you to write a list down and then take your phone and take a picture of it. So you have a document. Even if you're out and about, you have a documented. And then the plan is going to be home ownership is going to be down the line. Okay. For you. But I think the goal here is to get yourself out of debt and Antoinette. I would you're more than likely going to have to sell the minivan. Okay. And you're going to get a beta or two thousand dollar car because I want you to be out of this debt. So that you can start saving for retirement. And I want you driving, you know, have to be a truck driver for the rest of your life. I want you to be able to have a great retirement. And that's not going to be possible with the habits that you've been in. Not only just financially, actually, but the way you're going about it and your attitude about it. You've got to make the turn and it's going to be difficult and hard. But you need to get as much facts in front of you as possible because you don't know what you don't know. Are you an independent contractor in other words work for yourself or do you work for a company? I'm a company driver. I'm not teaching about having a bad memory. And I update all of my bills every other month. I have a piece of paper that tells me I keep it on a book. I look at every one of them. I see how much interest I've there charging me. I see how much my balance is. And then I tell you my total debt. I also look at credit karma a few times a week. I just have a bad memory. And it's had I know that you're going to be asking this question. I would have had this stuff. And you called a money show, my friend. You know what you mean? And so we're trying to help. We really are. And so my encouragement to you is that when there is something a big, big missing piece. And the car loan is that for me right now that I need to I need you to know what it is because I may need you to make a really quick decision to sell it. Because you know how much the payment is each month. Yes, the payment is $995. Okay, almost $1,000. How much money do you get paid once a month per month? What are you making? Probably about 75. Okay, and let me do a quick follow up and to it because I didn't hear you. That's my fault. Did you see your independent and reason I'm asking this? Did you say your end of the work for a company? Okay, do they have a 401k or some type of retirement program that you can be contributing to? Yes, but I don't because what's the point of that at my age? Because you have nothing. So we can run these numbers. But I mean for the baby steps as we teach them is $1,000 in savings just for basic emergencies. So what we step to is to pay off your debts smallest to largest. That's why Rachel leaned in there. We want to get the debt out of your life because we just learned that that could save us $900 a month. A thousand dollars that we going towards retirement. And so. Well, I wanted $2,000 meter cards is going to break down all the time. Well, you know, $2,000 meter card doesn't always break down all the time. You can ask Christopher yesterday. He literally had a picture of his and it runs great. And I'm talking to a person who's super popular. You're in words. Have the ladies pick you up when you're not in the truck. I want to get all of my family together and take them places. I hear your heart in it. I don't need the art. I want to dunk a basketball. But some things are not going to happen because I'm five foot eight and can't jump. You know, if I want to retire with dignity, I've got to start saving money. And I can't save money if I'm in debt. Hey, Antoine, I want you to keep listening to the Rams you show for real. I want you to listen every single day for the next six months. Make that be your goal. Just as you're driving, listen to this show because I want this knowledge to soak in in this way of thinking in the way of life when it comes to money. We all want peace. Peace with our money, our homes, our schedules. But having peace online is important too. At the time when you sign up for a coupon, enter a giveaway or click yes to another email list, your personal info, like your name, your phone number, your address gets collected and sold by data brokers. And before you know it, your inbox is overflowing, your phone's full of spam calls and your data is floating around who knows where. That is why I love what DeletMe does. Your team of privacy experts finds your personal info on those creepy data broker sites gets it removed and keeps it off. It is simple, it's safe and it gives you more peace of mind. That means fewer spam calls, fewer scams and way less digital chaos. You have worked so hard to find peace with your money. Now it's time to find peace with your digital life. Start protecting your privacy and your peace today. Go to joindeletme.com slash Ramsey for 20% off an annual plan. That's joindeletme.com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. We are here for you to answer your questions about your money, your work, your relationships and I'm Ken Coleman and Rachel Cruz. Joins me the phone number is 5825-225-8825-525. Lindsay is going to join us now right here in our neck of the woods. Nashville, Tennessee, Lindsay, how can we help today? Hi, thank you for taking my question. I am writing in with a relationship money question actually. Back in college my parents loaned me about $18,000 to go to college. It was $15,000 in principal and $3,000 in interest to help me pay for college. Under the agreement that I would pay it off within three years of graduation. Fortunately I was able to do that. But after listening to many, many episodes of your guys' show, I feel a little bit taken advantage of. And my question is, is it worth expressing my feelings to my parents now, despite the loan being paid back? Or do I just accept the lesson? Don't borrow from family and try to do better with my own kids going forward? Okay, I'll start because I think I represent my colleague here. I don't know that we can answer that question without understanding why it is you think they took advantage of you. Based on what you laid out. You know what you're getting to, right? It doesn't sound like they took advantage of you. What are we missing that makes you feel like they took advantage of you? Correct. So I knew the full amount when I signed for it. You know, they told me things like, you can go get a loan from a bank, but God forbid something happened while you're paying them back. You know, we're your parents. We would be much more understanding of that situation, should it present itself? And I guess it's the whole charging interest thing that I guess doesn't sit right. Okay, another question. You've paid this all back as I understand it, correct? Correct. When did you, when did the, yeah, the, when did the tension arise over the interest in the middle of it? Before you started paying it back or after you got done with it, paying the whole thing. More so after, yeah, more so after I got done with it, you know, how long after you got done with it? It was about a year after. What changed? What changed? So I'm digging here on purpose, right? So thank you for giving me a little bit of a way here. It's a very fair question. So let me explain it to the audience and to you one time and then I want you to answer this. Uh-huh. So you paid it back. You paid back the, the full 18,000 and about three grand of it was the interest. Is that what I'm understanding? I was 18, three of it was interest. That's what I'm saying. So, okay. So you paid it all back, all right? And a year after you paid it back, at some point, at some day, a year after you paid it back, this started to bother you. So that tells me something happened. What happened or dare I ask, who happened? So it, I got married a year after, a little over a year after I graduated college. And my husband and I were talking about it and he was shocked that they charged me interest and thought it was horrible that a parent would charge a child interest on a loan. And you believed him, all of a sudden. Yes. It occurred to you before his comment that that might be a horrible, despicable thing in someone else's eyes. Be honest. Sure. It had occurred. Yeah. You telling me at some point, you were like, this, I appreciate what my parents are doing, but I think this is a little, this is a bit shaky. No, no, no, sorry, sorry. I'm in front of your question. I'm, I'm playing Lawyer. I watch too many television shows. There's my point. The husband said this and because of his understandable influence on you and probably just by his sheer reaction, which he's, by the way, has every right to his opinion, this totally shifted everything. So I'm going to get out of the way and let Rachel weigh in, but I'm going to tell you my opinion now. I've gotten everything I need to know. Okay. So my opinion is it's too late and I don't think there was any tension or resentment at all until your hubs opened his mouth. He has every right to open his mouth. He has every right to opine on what your parents did. I don't like how he said it because I think he should have been wiser and more mature. And if he was on the phone, I'd telling this. He has every right to his opinion, but he's now created some tension and resentment after the fact and only from his point of view. And so for that reason, no, I don't think you should bring it up to your parents. And I think you need to figure out how to process this. Maybe it's therapy. But to create tension now, to me seems foolish. Yeah, I think I think what's hard for me, Lindsay, where it does not feel like they took advantage of you is because everything was up front. If you had called and we've had these calls of people called, they said, oh my gosh, we pulled my credit report after I got married to buy a house. And I had a student loan on there. My parents took out a loan. I remember signing papers at a team, but they never told me, you know, that's deceitful. People, parents that loan with strings attached, that will give you this money, maybe for a down payment on a house, but you guys have to live this close to us. We have to see the great, you know, there's strings attached in relationships. It's kind of gross. Like this sounds like, even though we're not for your exactly right, we are not for family members, the loaning money period. But the way they did it, Lindsay, it was, it sounded very clear, very upfront. And the reason they did it from what I hear is they did it from a situation that is less risk with the loan being held to them. It was not a, hey, we're going to give you a deal. We're going to charge you. And now at the three, at the $3,000 was unreasonable interest, right? If they're charging you 50% interest and they're taking advantage of you, that's gross and weird. But did they do that? They pulled the average interest rate and they just said, hey, and just, just do the loan with us. Because if something happens there, words, will we can give you grace period? Like it won't hurt you financially. That's the reason they did it. It wasn't a mathematical. You're going to get a deal from us. We're going to give you this half off. So, so Lindsay, I don't think they took advantage of you. I think you knew exactly what you were signing up for. And I think that the reason they did it was so that a bank wasn't involved. But it wasn't a financial deal on there. And it was just a, hey, here's this. Did they charge you the going rate on interest? I mean, Rachel brings us a very good point here. Well, no. So it would have been about what is that 20% maybe? It was $1,000 for every $5,000 that I borrowed from them. Okay. All right. Yeah, so that's a little bit. That's a little high. Is your parents super tight? Yes, very. Okay. I actually, I'm glad you brought this up, Rachel. Sorry, I know I was diving in a little bit. Not truly interrupting because I don't like that. Go, Ken, go. Okay. Well, I personally wouldn't charge my kid interest. And then I get, we don't loan our kids money. Right. Right. Right. Right. And I'm not on my going to. But I'm trying to put myself into this. Sure. Sure. Sure. So, remember the little classic, we tell you what we would do. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. We wouldn't do it. But if I'm sticking myself in, I think it's a little tight. But they didn't do anything. But take advantage of a really strong language. I don't like that language. That feels like it was deceitful. And I just think they did. I am going to say, though, Lindsey, I, so I have another follow up question. I can't wait for Rachel to get involved in this potentially. So the timeline for all of our viewers and listeners here, a quick review. It was a year after you paid it off that hubs and you have the conversation. He gets, he gets upset and it affects you. How much time between that first moment where he makes the comment that he's been doing for so long. How much time has passed? Years. We've been married for almost three years. Oh, wow. That really concerns me. I was very intrigued by this. So here we are. Are you saying three years ago is when he first got alarmed and you started questioning this deal? Three years ago. Yes. So you've been sitting on this for three years. And it's the lens been paid off for three years as well. Four. Lonesome Ted, four. I'm sorry. I'm sewing the timeline here. Rachel, doesn't that concern you? I'm very concerned. Concerned. What do you mean that she's just resented? This resentment. It's just boiling. It's boiling. It's calling us and I'm glad you called us. Yeah. I would really stop talking about it. I would really, I would release it. Lindsay, I really would. I think that yes, they're probably cheap to a degree. Probably. Yeah, they're cheap. They're big. But they didn't do anything deceitful. No. You knew exactly what you were signing up for. And so I think it's one of those things that again, thankfully you have the money to pay them back and all of it. But the deal is like this isn't this is another reason right? Right? Right. We don't loan money. So I'm glad you've been watching the show. Lindsay, because you're exactly right. This is I would do this because it does feel weird. And it's not only does it feel weird because you owe your parents money when we talk about that. But it's also weird in this situation when you look back and you're like, oh, gross. I don't like how that felt. So like all of that is standard and this is the rianz show. The last thing you need this holiday season is more stuff collecting dust or tech that keeps you glued to screens and up too late. You need better sleep. And that's what you'll get with Casper. Their mattresses are made for deep uninterrupted rest that keep you cool and comfortable. So you wake up feeling ready, not wrecked because rest is not a luxury. It's an investment. And the ROI is your well being. So go to Casper.com slash Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey for 25% off mattresses and 10% off everything else yet free shipping too. That's Casper.com slash Ramsey promo code Ramsey exclusion supply. All right, let's go to Jessica now who joins us in Columbia, South Carolina. Jessica, how could we help? Yes. So my question is I was, I picked them up identity theft. I found out at 18. My mom had been using my social security number since I was two years old. I found out at 18 when I want to go get a car and they wouldn't even touch me with the post-counter with an 800 credit score. No money down. Found out I had a hundred one hundred eighty six thousand dollars in credit card that just alone. Wait a hundred. Wait a second. Just get a hundred and what? $186 thousand in credit card that your mom racked up. Yes. Oh, Jessica. How long ago was this? I mean, all the way back to 2005. The most recent one was in 2021, which was right before I was 18. And I got it with an attorney and we got my credit wiped. But what what it left me with was zero credit history and horrible credit score. Not even a not even a secure credit card will touch me now. I have a significant other. We're not married, but we have gone to plenty of financial advisors and we have been told both. Their best option is to get married because again, I can't get even a credit card in my name. I'm an authorized user on only one card. I can't be an authorized user on a lot of other credit card. Jessica, slow it. No, you're not actually. This is going to be a great call for you because you're not stuck. But quick question here. And Rachel is going to give you some amazing guidance here. I promise you. But why are financial advisors telling you that the best thing to do is to get married? Because that feels like a financial reason, not a good reason to get married. So I want to dig into that first. What are we trying to accomplish? Yes. They always say, um, sign if I can't. And I don't have a car in my name. I can't get a car of my own. We share my partner's car. We moved up here to South Carolina from Southwest Florida away from my grandmother and to live up here near my father. And I work from home, which isn't a big deal, but our biggest issue right now is we have one car. Okay. All right. Slow down. Slow down. So you're not you're not stuck. This is the theme of this call. All right. I just want to ask a quick question here. Rachel, get out of your way. But I want to ask a question here. Yes. What do you do for a living and how much do you make? And I have a quick follow up. So give me the real quick stats. What do you do and how much do you make? I'm currently a debt collector for advanced America. And I'm currently making about after commission 18 to 19 hours, 40 hours a week. All right. So if if you could save up money for, let's say you could save up $10,000. I don't care how long it takes you. Could you buy a car without a credit card? Could you buy a car with $10,000 cash? Yes or no? Yeah. Most definitely. I mean, it's plenty of good for you. Okay. So I'm challenging some of your thinking here. I want to get Rachel's going to guide you here. But I want to challenge this idea that you're stuck because you have no credit score and that you have to get married in order to have a car. You have a job and you can go buy a $5,000 car, a $7,500 car. I just want to make sure you catch that. Definitely. You must definitely. All right. I want to get out of the way Rachel's. I know you got some questions. But my. I mean, the paradigm shift that you have to have just because a pretty big one because everything you've been talking about so far on this call has to do with how do I live my life around having a great credit score. And actually you called the Ramsey show and we're the opposite. We actually don't care about the credit score because primarily you use a credit score to go into more debt is within that and you're finding that out when you're trying to go get a car loan. They won't give it to you because you have a bad credit score. You try to go deeper in the debt with a credit card. They won't give you a credit card because of that. So living debt free. This is actually a gift. Jessica. You don't even have the option. Most people will listen right now could go apply for a credit card. You don't have the option. So see that as a blessing because I don't want an option for you even if you have a great credit score. So how do we live life debt free. Well, number one starting out your biggest need is what you're saying is a car. I almost think your biggest need is maybe a new job as a debt collector. That can't be a very fun job. So I wouldn't can't even talk about that. So I think you can do some really great work. Jessica and I think you can work overtime. Do you have kids? Yes. I do not. I'm just got my I would make a priority right now to say here it. Making a very detailed budget. I mean exactly what you need in life for food shelter utilities transportation. And that's about it. Like I mean, we're just going on the basics here. Everything else is going to go to save up for a car and maybe $5,000 is your goal. Whatever it may be because you don't do you have do you have any consumer debt in your name. No, no, it's okay. So and you're fighting this whole $186,000 right. We successfully sued you did right. How much do you have in savings? Okay. Yes. Do you have any savings? I don't know. Currently no. We just use our savings to move and you know get out of Southwest Florida because the jobs there weren't any good. And we're currently trying I'm trying to get back into college. I have one semester left to get my associates, but again, my mother messing with my identity has affected my tax forms to getting grants and loans. I don't need a loan. Listen, listen, Jessica, you don't need a loan to get one more semester paid for. And I think you're you're remaining semester of your associates degree is secondary to what Rachel saying, which is let's get some money saved. Let's get on a budget and let's buy a car. Because Jessica, we we have people call the show all the time and they're trying to get out of debt. And so when we talk about getting out of debt, for instance, we say you cut everything and you work extra and we have people very normal, I mean, in a very normal rhythm on the show that are making an extra thousand twelve hundred dollars above their income on side hustles. So let's just make it a goal for you and especially since you don't have kids be like, hey, evenings, I'm working like whether you're waiting tables. I mean, you are doing something and let's just go crazy. Let's say you earn an extra let's go to grand a month. I know that sounds crazy. Jessica, seriously, like what if you worked your butt off earned an extra two thousand. That means sitting right now where we are in the calendar by July August, you could have a car by depending on how much that once semester cost you between now in December after you have a car, another couple of months of working extra, you could have saved, you know, six eight thousand dollars for your tuition. So that's like that's literally between now and the end of the calendar year. Jessica, so like it is possible. You just have to make some really big goals and you have to not that you're playing victim to this by any means, but don't be living. But don't be leaning on the credit industry to get you out. Jessica, you can get you out or said or said our whole life that credit is what matters. I mean, again, we moved up here with the intent to buy a home and we found out quickly that I couldn't be on it. I guess that's really what you don't need a buy a home with someone you're not married to either Jessica or get married or get married at the advice of a financial advisor so you can get a car. All right, now listen, listen to this. I just found this is in the Columbia, South Carolina area. Okay. I just found a two thousand nine toy to Camry. 182,000 miles, which on a Camry, it might as well be a new car. Okay, that car can go for 480. All right, listen to this. $3700. They want for this car. You walk up there with $3200 in $100 bills. And say, guys, this is what I'm going to pay for this car. They'll give it to you so fast. Your head will spin. No credit. You hear me. Yes, I do. I've had plenty of, I mean, my first car wasn't 057. Okay, so I want to know for you because I've we've thrown out a couple of things, whether it's cars or college or not buying a house with someone you're not married to and you're rebuttal to us. This whole call is, but oh, I know, oh, I know. I know. But why? Why are you then still dabbling in this idea that I can't get a credit card. I can't get a car. I can't get a student because you're saying you know, but you're still giving it an option. Why? No, I think it's more so again. I mean, we, I mean, my whole family is I mean, obviously they're not, you know, they got their own troubles. But the whole thing is, you know, to have great credit and to not have this negative stuff drag in behind you. And even though I got my credit history wiped, you know, everything nowadays, they want to pull some type of credit, even by your pay. No, they don't. If you pay cash, I know pay later is horrible. Just get like that. I'm saying, you don't need to worry about those stuff. You don't know. I know. No, you stop saying you know. It's more so the, the, Jessica, availability and, you know, but you only need it, Jessica. You really only need it to go into debt. And that's what we're telling you is, hey, cash, just pay cash for everything. And you don't have to worry about it. And if some cell phone company pulls up your credit port, you can just show them the police report and be fine. Like you can get away with other things. But you, you have to be convicted about this, Jessica. You're going to keep getting pulled. I feel like you're getting pulled into it, even though you're saying I know. So you need a stamp. If you want to go through the government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government government insurance. 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So go to CHministries.org slash budget to check them out. That's CHministries.org slash budget. Rachel, the all new every dollar is here, and folks, it is truly way more than just our world-class budgeting app. I've been talking about this on the show. I got a meeting with the team, and I said, show me all the, just take me in the thing. Give me a tour. And it's amazing. It's literally like a digital version of us on the show for those who call in. First 15 minutes of answering the questions that the team provides you in this app. They're going to help you find thousands of dollars immediately. And savings we're seeing this in an average of people who use it. You can start every dollar for free by going to the App Store, Google Play. Tons of advanced features, not just budgeting. Now, that's amazing, but the fact that you've got a digital coach, mentor, accountability partner, what are we going to call it? All those facets are in there. Fantastic. Check it out. And give it a whirl, it's free. And I'm going to tell you, you're going to love it. Donna is up next in West Virginia. Donna, how can we help? Hi, Ken and Rachel. I love all the personalities, but Ken, I'm really glad you're there today. I love the way you spin a tail. You really make me chuckle. And I love your story from a few weeks ago about the welfare chicken I grew up on apartments and relates to that. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. I did not get in trouble. I did not get in trouble. I had forgotten about that, Donna, so thank you. That's really fun. Thank you, your sweet lady. By the way, I have to ask, where in West Virginia are you? Oh, geez, Romney. Can you know that town? I think I've heard of it. Do you know Point Pleasant by any chance? Oh, that's way far away. We're in the panhandle between Winchester, Virginia and Cumberland, Maryland. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay, I was born in that little teeny town of Point Pleasant, West Virginia. Oh Point Pleasant? 5,000 people. Okay, I know where it is. I've been there. Well, I'm going to tell you, not many people have. I'm going to tell you, not many people have. I'm going to tell you, not many people have. I'm going to tell you, not many people have. Yeah, that's right. It's across the state. All right, Donna. Okay. My sister from another mister here in West Virginia, how can we help today? Well, I'm 69 and my husband is almost 71. And we started our careers in the 70s. And at that time, people were saying, oh, you're so lucky. You have a pension. You'll have social security. You don't have to worry about retirement. So we didn't. And we're going to find now with our pension and our social security. But we haven't saved a lot of money. And we had to put my mother in a nursing home last year, an extended care nursing home. And it really scared me and shocked me at the cost per month for that stay. And what my question is today, and I've been having friends tell me, you know, you need to sign your house over to your kids to save it from being taken and all of this. And I know Dave says that you shouldn't do that. I have hurting. I haven't heard him talk a lot about that, but I have hurting say that. And I was just wondering what the pros and cons are to that. And if there if there's no pros, what can we do or is there something we can do to save our house? Well, let's go back a step. What do we what do we fear? What are we afraid that's going to happen that would even allow us to consider that advice? What are you afraid is going to happen? Oh, for the signing your house over. Yeah. Oh, well, there's I guess a lot of things. I mean, I've been listening to the store. Store it by shoe show long enough that I know if you have kids, if anything happens to your kids, then that can if they're in an accident or anything like that. Yeah, but you're talking about your house. I'm talking about my house. Yes. And your house that my husband and I own. Sure. And you're worried you're going to lose it to who or why? Oh, Medicare. I mean, if you can't pay, if you go in nursing home, Medicaid is going to look at. Oh, Medicare is going to look at. They're going to be looking at your. Okay. Now we're caught up. Sorry. We want a hundred percent sure. The reason we do we say that is because a little bit it feels like you're hiding assets when you just signed it over. No, not what I wonder. I know. So yeah, not a great, not a great thing because you're basically lying to the government that you don't have an asset when you really do. So, um, okay, do you have long term care insurance, Donna? We do, but I got it. Uh, it's been probably before I realized the cost. My father-in-law went into just an assistant living and his was about $3,500, $4,000 a month. So when we got our long term care, it was very expensive anyway because I have some health issues. Sure. So we're high. Sure. And ours is only $3,000 a month. Okay. And then my mom's came up and it was $14,500 a month and I'm like, I just, I'm just in shock that it was that expensive. Yeah. Totally. Well, um, okay. So a couple of things to think about that we don't know yet because how old are you guys? Up. I'm 69. My husband's 71. Okay. So a lot of different things. Um, number one, you don't know if you guys are going to need a nursing home anyways. Uh, number two, if you did get to a point of a nursing home, um, you know, there are things you can do. You can sell the house and use that to fund if you need to. Um, there's also what, what are you guys doing with your pension and all of that? What do you have coming in? Um, so per month, you mean what we have? We have, uh, it's like $9,942. Okay. So I mean, it's, it's decent and we did just start two years ago. We have started putting some away. Uh, we both both bought a, bought us and my husband a spout. I'm still working a little bit. Okay. And I made enough money to be able to max out both a, a Roth for me and a spousal Roth for my husband. I did that when we got, we got one of your, uh, pros. Good. Great. And, um, he, he said to get one, we got him in April and he said, Oh, I'm going to get a Roth before April 15th. For the tax. Yeah. That's right. So we did that and then when we finally sat down with him, we had enough money saved to do another one for 2025. What are you have? Started. What do you guys have total? We have, uh, 32,000 in, uh, Roth right now. And then we were playing around just during the years and we have about 50 that are, uh, financial advisor is rolling over about 50,000 that he's rolling over into R.A. Now that we're still in with the companies that we retired. Okay. So just below 100,000 and then what is your house worth? About 400,000. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So it would be one of these things. If you guys did get into that situation, whether it's the insurance, um, some savings, you know, whatever you can put together, um, to get into a nursing home and I'll be honest on it, this sounds, it sounds horrible, but there is a stat that once you enter into a nursing home for, on average, it's, there's not that long of a stay usually. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it's not either. So it is kind of one of the last steps that family members will take if they're not able to care for, um, you know, their family member. And so that would be kind of that, that last step, if you will. So if I was in your shoes, I may ask about up in the long term care. I'm just curious what other options are out there for you guys. Um, I would be looking at that because that's going to be very helpful type of insurance for you all if the time comes that you need in-house care, nursing home, all of it. And you guys also are sitting on a great asset. And then you know what I mean? If something were to happen to either you or your husband and you did get to a point that you guys didn't have the money to cash flow it. And yet there was a nursing home that you knew we, they needed to be in, you know, him or yourself. There's always the possibility of selling the house, you know, and figuring out what to do there. So, um, Donna, I'm going to give you something. Rachel made a great point. I looked it up on the average length of staying in a nursing home is 485 days. Now of course this varies, but averages do play out. So you're looking at about, you know, a year, three, four months. So you know, it's horrible to, but that's the reality. And we're talking about that. So, you know, between the pinching and everything, I mean, Rachel, you make a very good point. It's not like you got a fund, this crazy amount for five years. You know, so I think you guys are doing everything you can. What, how much longer do you think you're going to work? Um, as long as I can, I love it. Okay. Do you work full time? No, no, I do occasionally. Um, I'm a teacher and sometimes I'll take a long term sub job and sometimes right now I'm just doing day to day and I bet the kids love when Donna shows you. So, I hope they do. I hope they do. They all be safe. They do. But you know, well, that's good. And what about your husband? Is he officially done working or still working? Yes. No, he's officially done. He's a golfer. He's fallen into the golf. I love it. Good for him. Well, at least there's a little bit of a foreshadowing of watching your mom and how expensive it has been for your mom or your dad that you guys can start planning. But if that time comes, how would we be able to cash flow that? So, thanks for the call. I'm going to be back. I'm going to be back. But if that time comes, how would we be able to cash flow that? So, thanks for the call, Donna. Do we know if people can search welfare chickens on Spotify or YouTube and find that ramp? Do we know? We don't know. Sure, you get to try. Well, they can't. Oh, you all missed it. It was really great. Donna said so. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Alongside Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman. Thanks for being with us. We're here for you. Triple 8, 825-225 is the phone number. Let's go to Caitlin who joins us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Caitlin, how can we help? Hi, good afternoon. I'm a recent college graduate from West Virginia University. And I will start to student loan debt in January. And I want to know what is the best and effective way to go about that? How much student loans do you have? They will be around $26,000. And is it multiple loans? Okay, so what's the smallest amount? The smallest amount, I believe, is about $5,000. $5,000. Okay. All right. So, what we, is that the only debt you have? Yes, it's only $5. All right. Rachel, walk her through the very steps. Yeah. Are you working? Yes, ma'am. I work a full time job. Great. How much do you make a month? How much do you bring in? About a month, maybe, maybe, 15 to $1800 a month. A month. Okay. What are you doing? I work at a boutique. A boutique. Okay. What kind of boutique? A women's boutique, just a locally owned. Like a spa? No, like a clothing store. No, it's clothing. Oh. Sorry, a little slow on that one. Did no boutique. Well, there's lots of different boutiques. There's like boutique hotels. Boutique spa, sorry. Fair. None of this matters. Yeah. Why do you, I have a question on your income? Yeah. That is for college grad. That is way below what your expectations were. I'm guessing. Yes or no? Yes, I've had this job for about two years. I worked this job throughout college. And that is the job I'm still currently at. Okay. What did you get your degree in? Business and marketing. So what do you want to do? And I'm not going to put you under pressure here on a show live. But give me a general idea. It doesn't have to be a company in a title. But describe the work that you went to school for. That you would love to have if I could just wave my pencil in the air and give it to you. No, the work I would be interested in is going into law school. Okay. So we went for business and marketing and we're like, this is not what I want to do, but I'm just going to finish it. And then somewhere along the way we discovered I want to be a lawyer in a specific type of lawyer. Cooperate law. Okay. So a tie into the business and marketing. Yeah. Okay. What's law school going to cost you? Law school is probably going to cost me around probably $100,000. And where are you going? I want you to make my decision. But I'll be taking the L size. Okay. Great. I want to make a quick commercial and I'll hand it to Rachel. But you got to get your two things. Number one, you need to get your income up. Right. You should be making, you should be making double. I didn't even care what you're doing. Yeah. At this point you need a target of $40,000 to $50,000. Let's just put it out there. I don't want to limit you to that. But you just need to get out there and find something because more cash, the better. Now, and Rachel will tell you what to do with that cash. But I just want to make a point on the LSAT. Years ago I interviewed a law school expert on this and this is a fact, by the way. There are certain schools, you're going to have to do your homework on this. But you can figure it out easily. That based on your LSAT score, Rachel, if you get high enough LSAT score, they will give you a full ride. And the reason is, these aren't the prolific ones. Let me just go ahead and tell you. Sure. This isn't Harvard. Yeah. It's not the big time schools. These are the schools who nobody wants to go to their law schools. So therefore they're trying to get people into their law school because they want lawyers out there. And they will give full ride. So these are going to be smaller schools, not as well known. But they have legit law schools. So we just make my pitch on this. Nobody cares where you got your law degree from. And so the trade off is, Kaylon, you have to pay for the LSAT. And if you need to take the LSAT five times, take it. If we're aiming for, and we feel like the tutors will tell you, we can get you to the score, which gets you a free ride. So that's my commercial. Yeah, it's worth investing, you know, five, six grams or maybe like, like, honestly, when you think about it. Totally. And everything. And I don't know what the current LSAT cost is, but a hundred thousand dollar degree for free. So that's what you need more money for. Yes. Plus we got to pay off these loans. So Rachel, tell her how we pay off these loans. Yeah, and that needs to be your way to law school, Kaylon. I really want you to see that because you're going to be a hundred and twenty six thousand dollars in debt if you don't. So we want to really work hard to avoid all those student loans. Yeah. So it's getting your income up, Kaylon. So I mean, I really hate to say it, but I mean, I would probably be looking for another job. I think it was a great thing to get you through college. But now that you're a college grad, you know, you made that investment for a reason. And so now we need to go ROI it. And we need to go, you know, get a job like Ken said, making forty fifty thousand a year. And, and I would limit all my expenses that would live on nothing. And I would make it a goal to get this paid off in 18 months, 16 months, 14 months. You know, and so I really think you can. If you do have rents, are you living at home? What's your living status? I live at home. Okay. My family. Okay, so no rent. So I would take full advantage and make a really, really aggressive goal of getting this paid off. And then at the same time be looking at the LSAT stuff and make that also a part-time job. So I don't know if it's a, I don't know right now if it's a full-time job that you go and find, you know, a receptionist. I mean anything, like just go and answer phones. I mean do something. Or if you do the boutique during the day and you wait tables at night and you're doing a two day, you know, with two job a day kind of thing to double this income. But this income needs to be doubled, Caitlin. You're a college grad. And I think that you have, you have things to offer. And again, it's kind of back to this college degree conversation that you got your degree for a reason to go and create a career. And so taking that knowledge and going and doing that and upping this income is going to be, is going to be your number one goal. Because Caitlin, here's the deal. You are young enough and this debt is small enough that you could pay this off in a year. But you got to make your income to re put in two grand a month away. So like Rachel said, what must be true for me to be able to sock two grand, $2,500 a month away at the $26,000 loan? Knock that out and get it out of the way before the interest starts hurting you. Okay. Because I know people that have your amount of loan debt and they're paying it for 15, 20 years because they're never catching up because the interest payment. So you want to get this out of your life. And I just, I'm telling you, if you trust me and you do your research, you can go to law school for free or for a very reduced amount that you can cash flow. And most people don't know that and please do that because you're going to just be so much more piece. So there's your homework assignment. Pretty straightforward. You got a hustle. Yep. So thanks for the call. You know Rachel, that is, I love when we get that call and I, and I'll be honest, I've not interviewed people in other lanes, but I, I would almost bet you there's other professional lanes. Like that, that where certain schools are going, you know, like med schools are going to want to get people in here and the sticker price on a Vanderbilt, which is in the shadow of our campus here versus a small school. Yes. And it's an, and it's an ego play to go to someone's like, hey, where are you going to law school? And it's a, yeah, art or law. That maybe, yeah, or you're going to one that no one's ever heard of it. And you got to have some humility to it. But you're doing it in a wise way. You know what I mean? And so there's something. But it just rarely comes up. Yeah. Your clients aren't going to go, hey, I've heard rumors that you got your law degree from Greenbrier State. I mean, you think about vet school law school med school. I bet George Campbell when he had took his dogs into the vet. He didn't say, let me see your degree before he said, save my dogs. That was all last week. Oh, that poor guy. Tonya. That poor guy and his dogs. It's like a soap opera around here, folks. We don't have time to cover it. Well, I'm covered, George, if he hosts here in the next week. Hey, do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with money? But still stuck? I was you. In debt, running hard, but taking three steps forward and two steps back. Turns out, it's not the numbers. It's the fact that changing our ways with money is emotional. That's why I wrote my brand new book, would no one tells you about money. To help you push past what's really been sabotaging your progress so you can finally win. You can pre-order now and score over $100 in free bonus items. But only if you order by January 5th, go to ramseysolutions.com slash store today. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman and Rachel Cruz joins me. And we are here for you. The phone number to jump in is AAA 8255225. We want to help you win in your relationships and your work and in your money. And speaking of winning with your money, you know, a lot of people right now, Rachel, are watching. What is the Fed going to do? We've seen the interest rates on mortgages come down a little bit off of several years high. And everybody's going, do I buy? Do I sell right now? What do I do? And we've got some great advice for them. Yeah. And even in this show, Ken, I feel like we've had a lot of home questions even about like, hey, what's my next step? Well, the goal is to make your home and home ownership a blessing, not a burden. And so if you are in a place where you're like, okay, I'm thinking about selling. I'm thinking about buying maybe I'm a first time home buyer, you know, having that 5% down payment is crucial. A 15 year fixed rate mortgage is what we recommend. And for your payments, we know more than 25% of your take home pay. It's kind of always been our formula for for decades, regardless of what the housing market is doing. That just keeps your household budget in a good spot. But finding a house and specifically finding an agent that you trust who's really incredible and a high caliber in this area is really important. So the Ramsey trusted program really is the only way to find an agent that you can trust to keep you on track with what we teach here at Ramsey. And they're going to get the best offer on your house or is going to help you find the right house. We send you to some of the top agents in your area who we trust and you get to review their stats. You get to interview them and decide which one you want to work for because we have multiple and different markets across the country. Ramsey trusted agents have years of experience and will help you make wise decisions when it comes to pricing, the marketing or in choosing the right offer as well if you're getting multiple offer. So to find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent for free, go to ramseysolutions.com slash agent. And again, use this resource you guys because this is home buying. From majority of people, it's the largest investment you make in your personal finance, your personal finances. So do it well and do it right with an agent that that we trust so that you can trust as well. So Ramsey Solutions dot com slash agents. Yeah, good stuff. All right, let's get back to the phones. Kansas City is where we're going to go and Jerry's there. Jerry, how can we help? Yes, my question relates to the national public data breach. And what sort of steps should I be taking to kind of make sure my social security that you use to open a line of credit with that or what? You know, what kind of. Yeah, I mean, there's a couple things Jerry, you know, number one, you can just freeze your credit. If you're not currently in debt or using debts, you can do that. That's a that's a line of protection, but having identity theft insurance is really, really key. It's really inexpensive. And so I would recommend going to zander dot com zander to we use they actually they that's one of the benefits here at Ramsey Solutions is every. And pull every team member gets identity theft as part of working here. That's how much we believe in it because stuff like this is going to happen more and more. So yeah, honestly, I would go to yeah, zander dot com and check out their identity theft protection. And I would I would get a policy on you. I'd get a policy of every person in your household, honestly, too, because even kids, we're seeing identity theft, you know, happening within kids as well. And people running up stuff on their credit. And I mean, it's just it is wild. So I would do that. There's a number here on our screen that you can call as well. Jerry, it's 800, 356, 4282, 356, 4282. And yeah, that's what I would do personally, Jerry. And then I mean, that's as much offense as I know to do can on this unless something does happen, then you do have to take action. But if you have identity theft protection, they go in and do a lot for you. Just to kind of catch people up who may not know the story here and Jerry, I'm glad you bring this up. Just kind of let people know because you need to know, is widely reported that hackers may have stolen the social security numbers of every American. That's me, Rachel. That's that's all of you. And so there is a notorious hacking group that's that has claimed to have stolen a ton of information. And so this is being reported across a lot of news networks and you can find this story. So it happened what two weeks ago? Yeah, just last week. Or last week, okay. Yeah, so so that's what you can do. This is how you kind of check. So do that freeze. Just exactly what Rachel said until you can check everything and then go get protected with zander. Zander insurance, zander.com, 800, 356, 4282, that's 800, 356, 4282, zander.com. And they do a great job. We get an email every month, tells us we're good or what might be something we need to check into. And that protection is also... And there's other services like delete me and other places too that are incredible for online scammers as well. So identity theft protection, again, you guys protect your identity, social security, all of that. But then you think about how much are information, not necessarily social security number, but just your address, your phone number, all this. I'm getting blown up, all of the political stuff. And I'm like, where did my number get sold to? Like what list is this? There's full on companies that help people get their information off, but it's going to be... That's part of the curse of 2024 and technology. Because I don't know about you, Ken, but I do. I plug in my information on stuff. So whether you're shipping something or buying something, whatever it is, it feels like I'm putting in my information a lot on websites. And by the way, just in the overabundance of giving you all information, the three credit bureaus that Rachel's talking about again, Experian, Equifax and TransUnion, it's a free deal, column, or do it online. And put a freeze on your credit. And pull your report once a year, you guys. Regardless of whether it's a data breach or not, make sure you pull your... And you can do that for free once a year. So use each of those companies and get three reports three times a year. All right. Let's go to John now in Los Angeles. John, how can we help? How do you think how it's going guys? Good, how are you? Pretty good. How can we help? Yeah, so I've been in college pretty much all my life. About 33, but you're graduating with a PhD next year. My wife just graduated, so she started working. So it's the first time we really have a real income and a shovel. So we have $100,000 in debt. No retirement savings. And we kind of want to look into buying a house next year when I graduate. No. Are they sure? No, John, no. No, John, we're interrupting because you're not catching. No, no, no, no. Okay, John, what are you all going to be making? Household income together, combined. So right now today combined, we make 170. Okay. When I start working, it should be 230. Great. When I finish my postdoc because there's going to be a little bit more. It should be about 280 in about three years. Three years. Okay. Four months, six months. What will it be? Still 170 while I'm finishing up my PhD. And when will it bump up to 230? How long? When I find a job probably next summer. So probably a year, 12 months. Okay. Okay. Next year, yeah. Is the debt all student loans? It's 60,000 in student loans, 40,000 in car loans. Oh. Okay. What's the car breakdown? What do you own each car? It is 17 and 23,000. Okay. Both pay off in about four years. Yeah. Okay. How are you guys? You guys currently are making 170 though, right? Is what you said. Yeah. So take home is 10,000 a month. Okay. And basically, the cost of the use is between three and 4,000. Okay. So my. There's a lot of room there to tackle it. Yeah. For sure. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. heavy in cars by any means from our, you know, math when it comes to when we look at car debt versus income. But I would, I would make it a goal. Yeah, John, to, to be cash-flying the rest of your school, I would make it a goal to start paying off that smallest debt. So even if it's a, a small student loan, more than before the car, you know, just start working that debt snowball, working the smallest debt to the largest debt. And then be saving an emergency fund. And then I would say for a down payment on a home. But, but I'm really encouraged though, because your numbers, you guys can make some significant progress really fast. If you stay focused and you guys have a plan, so tonight lay out a timeline between now and the next three years and have some data points to say, yep, we want the car, so, you know, paid off here. We want this student loan paid off here. And, and you kind of map it out to know that you guys will get to saving to a down payment ASAP, which is where I want you guys. So well done. Thanks for the call, John. We'll be back. This is the Ranzy Show. Listen up, guys, because I've got a big question for you. Where will you be with your money at the end of 2026? Will you be better off worse or exactly the same? Believe it or not, you get to choose. Look, I know there's a lot going on that can make you feel powerless over your money, but I want you to hear me. You're more in control than you think. You can turn your finances around. So let me help you out. Start your year off with me and Dave Ramsey at our free every dollar live stream event on January 8th. We're cutting through all the lies and all the chaos out there that's keeping you stuck. So you have the clarity you need to finally get ahead. And you could even win $2,000 just for signing up. Listen, your other year is going to pass anyway. So decide that this is the year you're going to take that control of your life and your money. Go sign up for the free live stream at every dollar dot com slash live stream. Welcome back to the Ranzy show. Rachel Cruz joins me. I'm Ken Coleman and you are listening and watching the Ramsey show. So excited that you are with us. Triple eight eight to five five two two five is the number. Stephanie is joining us now in Los Angeles. Stephanie, how can we help? Hi. Happy birthday, Rachel. Thanks Stephanie. I appreciate that. You're welcome. Okay. So I am a single mother of two girls. I've been seeing a mom for a long time now. And I own a business from a professional organizer and I actually like coach families on how to like keep their lives together. Well, I just am really struggling financially. I ended up having to get a full time job. I long story short, my savings just got drained when I put employees on table out here in California. It's super expensive. And anyway, so I just I don't know the first thing about like good budgeting. I did not grow up. My parents like so big of three times. And I'm just trying to set up a future for my children and I just want to get out of debt. So I need some advice and I want to slow my car and yeah, yeah. Okay, I got a quick question for Rachel. Dive's in because she can walk you this, but I'm just curious. How does a person who is really good at teaching other people to be organized not figure out how to do a budget? I'm not saying that in a judgmental way. I'm just curious where do you think the disconnect is there? No. So I know how to stick with a budget. What happened was I was going a custody battle came up in the middle of everything. And then my dad got early on to all four minutes. This is all like in a short period of time. And it just threw me for a loop. And a lot of my money went into custody. And then I ended up taking out an EIDL loan, which I've never been like a credit card person, a loan person. I actually kind of got talked into getting a business credit card for my business. And that because I was paying everything cash before that. And the custody battle happened. I put the whole custody battle on my business credit card because I was desperate. And so yeah, this is where I'm not and I never coached anyone on finances. I coach neurodivergent families how to like set up systems in their homes, like functional and how to like live purposes in their home. And yeah. So but right now I just I'm just in over my head as well as what what do my, yeah, economy is not that great. What are you making in your day job? So my full-time job I make 19, oh wait an hour. There is, it's a sales job. I do like interior design. And so we do get commission on designs, but I've yet to reach that commission because the whole bonus structure is just it doesn't make any sense. You have to sell at least $80,000 between installs or whatever. I don't know. So I've never reached that. And then my organizing job, I have three contractors. So I bring in right now it's not really good. I bring in about maybe 2000 a month with that. So it's but it's just so slow right now. And I just yeah, I was making pretty good money. And now over the last couple of years, it just hasn't been that great. Yeah. And then you throw in things like a custody battle in the midst of it. And yeah. Yeah. Well, let me for everything for my kids. Like I don't get any help. I pay for the cars, insurance, everything. Wow. Yeah. Well, let me just say, you know, when it comes to your kids, when it comes to your health, like we are all about fighting the fight, right? I'm like it is, you want to you want to do it. You know, because those are the important things in life. So that's I want to free you and, you know, not pile on any level of shame. I give yourself a lot of grace. So, okay, so how much debt Stephanie do you have? Do you know? Yes. So I have my $20,000 EIDL loan that starts payments to start coming out in October. Okay. I owe almost 9,000 on a credit card. Okay. And then my car is I owe about 13,500 on that. And then here's like the really hard part for me. I got behind on taxes. I just got paralyzed with fear by the way, but I just I got behind on taxes three years. Those are just finishing up being filed. So I don't know what I owe on that yet. Okay. So I'm waiting on that. So those are my those are my debt. Okay. And you're making 2000 for your organization business. I know you're making 19 and hour for what you're doing, but do how much how much will you bring home a month with that full-time job? So each check is about 1200 and some change after insurance and all of that. And you get two checks a month. Each every two week. Correct. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So it's a little less than five grand. And have you been able to map out? Are you able to pay your bills? Stephanie, meaning your your mortgage, food lights? So I don't even I don't even have a mortgage. So my rent I'm actually in a great situation as far as that goes. I have a within a two-bedroom apartment. It's 1200. I've like refused to move because I'm so nervous. I wanted to get my you know finances in order first. So it's good for rent. Yeah. And then and then 404 for my car payment. And then of course utilities and all that stuff. How much is your car how much is your car worth? Do you know? I'm not exactly sure I did look on like what other people are selling my car. I have a car for and I thought anywhere from 15 to 19. Okay. So here's what I would suggest. I feel like for you Stephanie a good good win would be just a quick win to feel some level of traction because you're going to start to make some changes right when it comes to your money and those changes are going to be uncomfortable because you've never done this before. But the fact that you're not underwater on your car. I mean man if you could get if you could get yeah I mean if you could get 19,000 or something for it and go get a crappy 6,000-hour car that takes 13,000 dollars of debt that's gone just gone. And then and then looking at yeah your credit card attacking that next. And then the loan after that the $20,000 loan. Now when your taxes come back Stephanie if you can't pay them by the tax deadline go get a personal loan from the bank. I would rather you have a personal loan than owing the IRS. Okay. So that will be a step. Okay. And what you're going to do is pay off the smallest debt to the largest debt. And and again the car I think would give you some traction. Do you have any savings? No might putting employees on payroll just to range my savings I had about. Okay so you have nothing. So you may want to relook to which we had more time with you. I would relook maybe the structure of your company. I just I don't I don't know if it's for sure. Like I know it may be a thing. It may be a thing Stephanie that you just say yeah but you that you close it down for now. I mean like is there something you know is there a way to just take that burn off you're just carrying a lot. Yeah. And I'm just trying to relieve some margin for you. So I do not have any employees on payroll anymore. It's all contractor job. Okay. I just yeah I just contract. But to be honest I am thinking about just going back to because it is stressful like owning a business I've had it since 2016. It's really if a great business we were like all around California as far as like our reputation and stuff but I just I'm so stressed about it. So I am thinking about stepping back and just working full time and you know maybe taking on jobs by myself for like extra income. But as far as selling my card that was actually what what the reason why I called you I wanted to see if you thought that that was a great idea. I probably would. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that would be such a relief not to have that car payment every month. Yeah. What is the payment? What's the car? 404? 404. I mean, 400 bucks. Stephanie, how much would you love a $400 raise per month? I would love to just like take that 400 and put it into like the rest of my debt. That's right. That's right. No, that's right. If you if you stay on the line Kelly and Austin are going to pick up we want to give you financial peace university. It's our nine lesson course Stephanie and every dollar premium. It's our budgeting app. And then also I'll have them connect you with a financial coach in your area because I know as a single mom you're juggling a lot and I think sitting down with someone who has the heart of a teacher who can walk through really specific numbers and scenarios and it may only just take one session but it's better than a you know seven minute you know chat that we were able to have here on the show. But we want to connect you with some of that stuff Stephanie because you're on the right track you're like right there and you got to just start making those steps and you're going to feel a lot of traction. So we're excited for you. We're going to take care of you. Thank you for calling. This is the Ramsey show. Buying and selling a home is a big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents. They're handpicked pros who know their stuff. Listen to your needs and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day to find a Ramsey trusted agent near you. Visit Ramsey solutions dot com slash agent Ramsey solutions dot com slash agent. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman Rachel Cruz is with me in studio this hour AAA 825 525 AAA 825 525 is the number to jump in our scripture today comes from Titus 2 versus 7th rate and everything set them an example by doing what is good in your teaching show integrity seriousness and soundness of speech that cannot be condemned so that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us and our quote of the day from Les Paul don't say you can't until you prove you can't all right about that there you go there it is there you have Thomas is joining as an Asheville North Carolina Thomas how could we help all right thank you guys so much for taking my call sure what's up so my father has claimed a vacation for this summer for the whole family I'm married we have two children my brother's married he has three children he gave us a little bit of heads up on it basically just asking when the kids would be going back to school and then he planned this trip for the end of summer we're right in the middle baby step two should be debt-free by looks like November he's paid for the location and like lodging and everything but my main concern is I work like seventy seventy five dollars a week wow I don't have any paid I don't have any paid time off so my main concern is is missing that income while we're on this trip so I was kind of hoping to get you guys a place on that so before dad comes to you with this vacation idea what was the plan what were you and your wife thinking about summer no vacation yeah I mean we've been been busting it just right everything paid off it's because they're intense yeah so yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna oversimplify it because I think this is the key issue you weren't going to go into vacation and we and we agree with that you guys are going hard man you're working seventy seven five hours a week that's impressive and you weren't planning to anyway now dad's asking you to do it wait I that's what I'm not to jump in did he ask or did he tell you guys well did he say well that's that's an interesting part of it yeah a little bit of both you know the like my brother has children are our children have never met their cousins um he's kind of really loving the whole grandpa and kind of wants everybody to get together they're getting a little up their age so he kind of looked at it as an opportunity to get the whole family together one last time and have all the grandkids in one place because my brother lives a thousand miles away from where I live so yeah I would so I think well I'll tell you what I'll ask one other question I won't I won't wait so to see what she says here um is he paying for everything or just the lodging meaning you guys would have to pay for the travel to get there plus meals um food he he's handling food and lodging um because I'll be doing most of the cooking that's kind of how it's always worked out if he buys the food and I prepare it um but we I mean we'll basically just be responsible for gas to and from so it's the not so much the expense of the trip but the the missed income and how many days will you guys be gone uh six or seven depending on when we travel back all right the only other question I have is can you man you're already working seven years seven five hours once you'd have a big yeah but they weren't planning on it anyway I know so so this is not so much like an opinion it's it's advice and I think I would I would do what you believe is right to do and I think I know the answer to that I don't think you want to go Thomas I don't think you do either I I really do um I really want my kids to meet their cousins and I really want you know my parents the opportunity to have all the grandkids in one place because it you know both two five six and seven and they've never all been in one place at the same time but but I mean I'm just I'm concerned about but what a week of it hold on I'm going to be devil's advocate here for you hold on B devil's advocate I want him to finish that certain okay go go Thomas sorry I'm we've been working really hard and I'm just kind of I guess very apprehensive about was that month's budget will look like with you know several hundred dollars missing from it and I don't want that to take away from what the experience is supposed to be if I'm there you know worried about that so have you added up how much money you will lose out on being there probably about eleven hundred dollars or so and that's okay not counting the gas to and from sure sure um and how much how much that you guys have left um we've got about 13,000 left okay uh what would it do to your budget would it stress you out without the eleven hundred would that make it super tight um not particularly we still have to factor in like um we haven't you know the kids back to school stuff is going to be that month and the month prior to that in August so yeah I mean it's okay here's I know here's okay Thomas you got to do what you got to do here's my here's my devil's advocate no what do you do to be with and again this is if you want to Thomas if you feel guilted if there's some weird emotional thing if dr john dr lonie was in here and asking you like psychology questions of families that right like if it was just a healthy situation I think giving up eleven hundred dollars to be with family for one week because it doesn't happen it's not like this is a yearly tradition would be worth it for a family situation like that so and everything is paid for now they're making you pay for everything that's one thing you can't afford to go everything is paid for and maybe you go half the time maybe in your wife say we're going to go for four days and there's something about living life still and this isn't taking you guys deeper into that it may it may slow it down for three weeks the death snowball I agree but there's something about the situation feels the situation just feels so unique that it's not going to happen and for eleven hundred dollars a part of you would say oh my gosh like go be with your family I agree with that if that's what's going on and if that's what Thomas wants to do I don't know if Thomas wants to do it but let's ask him Thomas we definitely want to know I mean I forget the one two no here's what I'm asking you're working 70 to 75 hours week is that to pay off the debt faster or is that to make ends meet and the eleven hundred dollars is going to make things super tight and it makes me feel like that's the case when you're talking about school supplies and eleven hundred dollars no no no no hold on let's really mean sir well no I mean if I wasn't if I was working 40 hours a week all our basic our budget could sustain on that the back is just like a zelentensity because we're putting about anywhere from an extra probably fifteen hundred or so okay so back to Rachel's point it's a month behind eleven hundred dollars not making that is not going to make life tight it's just going to slow the snowball down that's right yeah then I would I agree with Rachel now that I have the facts wow you didn't let me I was trying to get the facts for the life raft and kinsa sure Rachel no I actually I just needed to get to that point that's good that's good I couldn't tell emotionally if he was what's the eleven hundred doing yeah in this case I think because the kids have never seen each other before dad and mom are getting older all the things you already said very well yeah Thomas I'm okay with that and honestly Thomas take four days of a paid for vacation as a gift of a little bit of rest too right I mean y'all been working like crazy which is amazing it's exactly so proud of you but there's this is a unique thing and I I agree with you you've only got one shot around this globe and I would do the family vacation knowing that the eleven hundred dollar you're not going to have that the suppression of that it's not going to make things tight to where you can enjoy the vacation and I also want to point out Thomas I would like to vacation with you because I'm all for buying the food and you cook I would like to point that out Rachel this guy's great it sounds great it sounds great hey Thomas is coming great let's go get the brisket you know Thomas here you go how do you feel now you feel like this is the right move you're going to do it you got to talk to the wife what's story yeah I'm gonna talk to her about it I think it's there's a mentality shift that needs to take place because I've been we've been doing this since August yeah I think it's a memory and I don't want you to and I don't want you to lose momentum either so just see this as like a quick pause a breather paid for vacation and then you're back at it but I think the the scope of family and cousins and all of that there's something really special there that I would hate for you guys to miss that because you wanted to pay off debt one month later that's right and I'd make the old man cook one meal for him yeah maybe go half the time all right good hour Rachel Cruz thank you James childs and our team thank you america this is the ramsie show