Seth Rogen Knows the Secret to Marriage — and Being Rich in Hollywood

Hi, I'm Neeraj from Madison, Wisconsin. I would like to share my subscription for NY Times with my family members. I should be able to share recipes from NYT Cooking, wire cutter articles, or athletic articles. We are a family of four. I would like them to have access to the subscription too. Thank you. Neeraj, we heard you. It's why we created the New York Times Family Subscription. One subscription up to four separate logins for anyone in your life. Find out more at nytimes.com. From the New York Times, this is the interview. I'm Lulu Garcia-Navarro. At 44, Seth Rogen seems to be having the opposite of a midlife crisis. His series, The Studio, which he created, writes, stars in, directs, and produces, just one 13 Emmys, and is currently filming its second season. He also stars in and produces the very funny Apple TV Plus show, Platonic, with Rose Byrne. His production company, Point Gray Pictures, has been banging out the hits, like the dark superhero series, The Boys, and his new movie, The Invite, directed by Olivia Wilde, has been generating a lot of buzz. So I wanted to talk to Rogen about how he went from acting in the quickly canceled TV show Freaks and Geeks as a teenager to writing slacker movies like Superbad, to having one of the most prolific, wide-ranging, and successful careers in Hollywood. Here's my conversation with Seth Rogen. Seth Rogen, thank you for being on the interview. Thank you for having me. You were recently just in Cannes, which you go to often. I've never been to Cannes. What? No, never. That was my first time. I just assumed. I actually didn't know one way or the other, but I was assuming why. I don't generally make the kind of films that go to film festivals and have that type of attention or focus in any way. And so, no, I'd never made anything that was at Cannes before. Oh. It's funny because, you know, we very luckily have had very, like I'd say we, like me and my group, I guess, the Royal Wee. I'm Canadian, close enough. But you know, we've had very long, lovely careers where up until very recently, we didn't really do any of this stuff, festivals, awards, things like that. And I think honestly in our heads, we really kind of assumed it, which is that that was not what our careers held. And we were really at peace with that. And so now that I am starting to get to go to festivals like Cannes and see it, it is funny that there's like this entire other side of the industry that has sort of just been withheld from me for the last 20 years. And I never really, I never thought about it that much because I always just thought, like, yeah, that's like, that's for those types of movies. And I don't really make those types of movies. But now it is amazing, like the level of industry and infrastructure and sort of pomp and circumstance that I had nothing to do with all these years. Just felt like a lot of parties I was never invited to until now. So, yeah, it was really exciting, you know. I find it very comforting that there's a velvet rope that you were not allowed to go by. There's plenty more, trust me. Even now that I'm here, there's many more velvet ropes that I have not. I'm not invited to be beyond. I have this theory that there's always another room that you just don't get into. I remember as a kid hearing like, I can't remember who was saying it. It was Judd or Gary Stanley, one of these old comedians I was hanging out with. It was like, you work your way up through Hollywood and eventually you are led into a room alone with Jack Nicholson. And that's like, that's the end of the line. It's just you and him in a small room together. And that's when you're like, I did it. So you do have another film, which is The Invite, and you played Joe. Joe is an angry person whose long-term marriage to Angela played by Olivia Wilde, who also directs the movie, is not in a good place. I saw this recent interview where Olivia Wilde said you are both non-confrontational people, but in this role you access, and this is a quote, your deep rage. And I want to understand what Seth Rogen's deep rages. Tell me what she meant. I mean, I don't know if that, I'm glad she's thought that way. If that was helpful for the film, you know, I think, yeah, it was, you know, I think, you know, as we were rehearsing and working on the script leading up to shooting, it just seemed like the, the more like palpably uncomfortable the couple was, the more uncomfortable the audience would be, the more uncomfortable this other couple would be entering this environment. And I had just been out with couples where you were, you know, out with couples where you just see like they don't like each other and it's really unpleasant to be around. And there is this like simmering undercurrent of anger. And in every moment where you would choose to forgive or excuse a person that you actually care deeply about, like these people choose not to forgive and excuse their, their partner. And they choose to make a big deal out of it or to use it as an opportunity to, to make a dig at their partner or say something hurtful or feel superior or something like that. And those are people I'd been, I mean, and continue to be around in my life. And, and I've always found it incredibly unpleasant. And to me that resentment was something that I thought would be very, you know, like additive to the film and would create like a tone and environment that, that serve the film. It did make me wonder what causes you to feel deep rage or are you this person that does not feel that? No, I get really angry sometimes. And it's mostly, I think it's evolved over the years. What, what makes me angry? Like, you know, I used to really get angry about, I mean, like for lack of a better expression, when I would say like people fucking with my shit. Like when I was doing like a creative endeavor and I felt like the powers that be were just messing it up for no good reason and were, were obstructing me from expressing what I wanted to express and what I felt would, would create a great product ultimately and they were interrupting that process or, or again, just complicating it or making it needlessly painful. And that was the thing that used to really enrage me more privately, you know, but at times, you know, I bet people I've worked with over the years would say that I, I'm not always 100% pleasant 100% of the time when it comes to those types of situations, you know. But honestly, over the years, I've seen that we very rarely lose those arguments and we almost always get to do what we want creatively and there's a number of instances I could probably count on one hand where we've actually like been forced to do a thing that we really don't want to do creatively. And I think over time I've realized it's like not worth getting that angry about that stuff anymore because it just the it rarely manifests into a thing that I actually don't like. It's more the fear of it would enrage me, you know. But now I think as I've gotten older, it's more like, it's more, it's much more directed inwards. It's much more I get mad at myself and I get disappointed in myself or I will do a thing that I don't feel like I did as well as I could or I will feel like I'm spinning out over something or ruminating on something or fixating on a thing and then I'll get mad at myself for removing my self from the day to day present experience. I should be having because I'm somewhere else fixated on some dumb thing, you know what I mean? That is usually my own doing something that I felt like I didn't do well enough, something that I'd said that I wish I hadn't said or something like that. That is much more where my anger lies these days is like at my own behavior and at my own, yeah, at myself, which is probably not healthy. But that's, you know, I'm doing my best over here. I go to therapy. Let me, can you give me an example of a moment where something got intervened in that you felt did a disservice to your vision? It's been a long time, honestly. And we've, the whole reason we became producers and made a production company, which was like 10 years ago at this point, I think maybe more, was to like insulate ourselves and really try to protect ourselves from that happening, you know? Do you think good work cannot come from by committee? Is that like? No, I have a very strong committee like and I have a partner specifically like I am amazed that good work comes from any singular person, you know? I need sounding boards, you know, and, you know, I'm filming the studio right now, so I'm very like in it, but like, I just see that like the team we have on set, our cinematographer, our editor, our writers, the production designer, the costume people, the camera operator, like these people make the show better. I think at the end of the day, and I say this all the time, the hardest part about being a director for me is when, is when you are the only one who thinks a certain thing. And when everyone's looking at you like you're crazy, and you have to be like, no, this is what we're doing, because ultimately, like, I'm the one who has to live with this at the end of the day. And if I don't do the thing that I really think is right, even though everyone's looking at me like I don't think this is right. And 99% of the time the committee's in league and then 1% of the time me and my partner is standing there and everyone's looking at us like we're crazy and we're like, this is what we have to do. And to me, like the thing I hate the most is when I make a thing, and it isn't quite what everyone hoped and someone who was there is like, you know, I kind of maybe thought that maybe this wasn't going to work. And that's when I'm like, say something like you were right. Say something not like I wish you had said that because you would have made me see something that I wasn't seeing. And if you had said that, then this would actually more reflect what I want to be putting out in the world, not less reflect that, you know what I mean? And so that is something I like just recognize over the years like this really valuable like to me personally, you know? You know what fills me with rage? Someone coming and saying I told you so. Yeah. I don't like that either. Funnily enough, just to return to the movie briefly, the movie is funny, tender, very dramatic. As a long term married person, it brought up a lot of familiar themes. I was saying to my producer also called Seth by the way, that the opening. I have to fight him now. Yeah, you do. We were saying there has to be a cage match. It's a highlander. Every time I meet one. That opening scene where you and Olivia are fighting bitterly over the dinner party. She is throwing for the neighbors. She'd forgotten to tell your character about it. I had had that very same argument that week with my husband. There you go. Yeah. Were there things in the movie that hit home for you? Obviously, you've been with your partner, Lauren Miller, for a long time. What did it bring up for you? And also, your fellow actors as you were portraying this very complicated emotional dynamic. I mean, we rehearsed the movie for a little while going into it and the movie was completely rewritten, I would say, in the weeks leading up to shooting. Huge ideas that are in the movie were not there at all when we started the rehearsal. And so the movie actually changed a lot as we were leading into filming. And that's not uncommon. And what's funny with a movie like this and you're rehearsing and the actors are there and the writers are there and and you're talking about relationships. And at some point, you kind of have to define what, according to this film, at least, is a good relationship and what is a bad relationship, you know, and people really bring their own personal stuff into those definitions, you know what I mean? And what you very quickly see is that, oh, like, what I view as a bad relationship is not what these people necessarily view as a bad relationship. Or maybe she agrees with me, but maybe they have a very, this person does not agree with me and they view what I would view as completely unacceptable to become to be normal in a relationship and things like that. So as we were rehearsing and writing, like, I remember feeling like I could really confidently speak about what a very good relationship was like and one that had been good for a very long time. I mean, I think it's a couple who is nice to each other and who loves each other and who goes out of their way to excuse the other person rather than to find things that they hate about the other person. Not blaming it, like, but to me, it comes down to like, like a caring, you know, like, and like a tenderness and a niceness that is born out of a desire to do that for the other person, which I think is also very important. It's like, you have to want to love your partner and you have to want them to love you back, you know, and I think you have to be intimate with your partner and sexually attracted to your partner. And I think they, and that should be returned as well. And I think, and the movie really gets into that. And so very quickly, me and the other cast members and the writers found ourselves having what maybe we did that tend to be incredibly revealing conversations, but what ultimately you couldn't you couldn't hide were incredibly revealing conversations because ultimately you're arguing, oh, I think this is this is healthy or this is unhealthy, you know. Are you just, are you saying, you know, you now know more about Penelope Cruz's marriage? Yes, exactly. We got more circling around here. I do know how your heart of our dam had back problems that were similar to my character, which was a funny, you know, again, much more than I needed to know about him necessarily. And she does think it had to do with stress and emotion more and more so than a physical ailment. And so, yeah, so all that stuff kind of comes out. So Esther Perrell, the relationship psychotherapist and bestselling author was a consultant on the film. Was she mediating something? I mean, what were you guys having group therapy? No, I mean, honestly, from my experience, we just talked about her a lot. Like, and I think there was a point where like, we were kind of dancing around just like using her philosophies in the film. And honestly, I think maybe that made them go to her and be like, will you be a consultant on the film? And because, because I think there was some fear at first of like, are we overlapping? And I remember being like, just embrace it like, like, we are saying what she says. That is the point of this. We agree with it. We all agree with it. What is the it? The it is this, I think to me, it's this very simple idea of that you have many relationships throughout your life as you change and you age and, and your perspective changes and, and, and sometimes your partner changes with you and you have several relationships with the same person that have new parameters and new boundaries and new, new, new guidelines that are reflective of who you are as you become different people. And sometimes you becoming compatible with that person and, and you start a relationship with a new person and it just, it just really rang true. And it's something I've seen in, in couples that I know and something I've seen in my own relationships. Like, you know, me and my, me and my wife started dating when we were like 23 years old or something like that, you know? And so we're obviously very different people than we were in our early 20s, another in our mid 40s. But, but we grew in a way that we stayed very compatible with one another, you know? And I've seen other couples not have that happen, you know? I'm glad you brought this up because I have a theory about your relationship. Great. Well, I saw you talk about your wife on Howard Stern and he told several anecdotes that basically boiled down to, I was on drugs and my wife encouraged me to go on live television, get on stage with Madonna, do something potentially publicly risky but very fun. And I just loved that because this is clearly someone that is sort of the opposite of trying to shut you down or, you know, circumscribe you. She wants you to be full Seth. She does, yes. And at times will also tell me maybe it's too much. I'd say it a very good way. And it's honestly like when we were making the neighbors movies, that was like a lot of the dynamic between me and Rose Byrne came from conversations with me and Lauren where it was like we, she's not like the naggy woman who's trying to shut down the fun. Like she's, she's being her love doing the same stuff. And, and, and if anything, yeah, she's like encouraging it, you know? And so we've always, I think in a great way, like fundamentally been on the same page as one another and like to do the same actual things with our day as one another, which I think is also just the thing that like you see is like, oh, this couple like just doesn't want to spend their day doing the same thing anymore. And then they used to and now they don't. And now like she wants to do this, he wants to do this and, and, and they might still care about each other, but it's just like what they want to do all day is completely different, you know? And we like doing the same things, which is also good, I think. What do you wish she'd stopped you from doing? Nothing right now. If anything, she has successfully stopped me from doing things I shouldn't have done, which, which is good. She has a very good track record with that. So you often play with thwarted desire in your projects. You know, dude wants a hot girl, isn't in her league. And that frustration is often sort of comedic and played for comedic effect. Can you give me your theory of what makes desire funny? I mean, to me, it's more just like what a character is, is getting in the their own way of what they want is the funniest thing for a character to do. And when a character fundamentally has a personality that does not allow them to easily achieve what it is that they want and, and they are their own worst enemy and they, they are doing things that are making their own situation harder and worse. That to me is the funniest thing. And I think it does come from something I relate to deeply, which is like the thing that makes you the happiest also is the most painful thing in your life at times, you know. And I think like Larry Sander shows the thing that me and Evan, my partner, like reference a lot, you know, and, and I think that is like fundamentally incredibly great comedic character in that like he's constantly trying to be someone he isn't. He's constantly trying to be cool to the employees that he works for or works with, but he just is too wound up and, and to allow it to happen. And he wants to think he can, he can date a woman who's more famous than he is, but he just can't. And he wants to think he can allow his sidekick to be funny, but he just his ego won't allow it. And so it's sort of this like conflict between like what the worst parts of your ego make you do versus what your purest desires like want you to do, you know. Okay, this is kind of a little bit of a silly question, but it is something that I've always been curious about. In a lot of your films, there isn't some big pretty woman moment though, for the dude when you get a makeover and you're suddenly like pumped up. You always end up getting the girl, but you don't get the glow up. There isn't like this, this big moment where all of a sudden, you know, you're kind of rip off your shirt and there you are. And, you know, I was thinking like long shot with Charlize Theron and, and all these things is being funnier, sexier than being hot. I mean, I hope so. But no, the answer is no. Being hot is better. It can help. But what do you think about the characters? I'm not personalizing this. It's funny, like when we were making movies when I was younger, that the joke I was always making as we were making them is like, oh, like my guy's going from wearing like a T-shirt to a polo shirt. Like that was always like the arc like, oh, he got a button. He got a button up shirt. Like, wow. And even then I could recognize kind of like the silliness of that and how superficial it all was, you know. So I think more so as we got older and we were, you know, making more of these types of movies like that more became, I think the idea is like it shouldn't be some like superficial thing. You know, movie like Longshot, it should be like fundamental character things that are evolving and changing and they're influencing one another in a way that isn't just how they look and dress, but it is more like as people, they are enriching one another, you know what I mean. And so, yeah, I think that's kind of more where that type of thing came from. But truthfully, I don't make that many. Like, I haven't made a romantic thing in quite a long time. Yes, it's true. Yeah, it's, I think as I'm in a very good relationship and have been in for a long time, it's like not that creatively interesting to me to like show two people falling in love with one another. Like, it's not where my brain goes, you know. And I think also when we were first coming up, especially it was like every movie had a romantic storyline or like conflict between the main couple that had to be resolved in some way. And I think that also just, I remember we were making pineapple express, like we sort of have like a really silly, ridiculous storyline with me and, and, and like the woman, you know, character and it's like not even remotely a romantic storyline, it's sort of like this disastrous thing, you know, and I remember at the time everyone's like, it has to be romantic, like that's what a movie has. And we were like, no, like that that's not, we don't care that much about that and knocked up like I think it was like all about that. And Longshot was like, it was like a romantic comedy, you know. But I think, yeah, to me, it was, it was either more interesting to like fully explore this dynamic, or not explore it at all and not have it be like an obligatory part of our things. And it's why honestly, guys, we're making the studio now. It's like, there's like no romantic storylines on the show. There isn't. Not really like a little, a little, a little kind of, but like not. I mean, your dating life is a part of the comedic stuff. Yes, it's in one episode and is like, and the whole joke is that I can't date, you know what I mean? And so other than that, it's not like a thing we're tracking is like Matt's dating life. Like it's sort of like a non, there's sort of like an asexuality to the show in a weird way, which, which to me is fine. That's interesting. It is. You got to work with one of the greats Catherine O'Hara in the studio. How did you experience that loss? Did you have any particular memories of working with her? Any good Catherine O'Hara stories? Oh, I mean, so many. Like when we first conceived of the show, like she was the one that we wanted on it more than anybody like and, and, and to me and Evan, she was like a goddess, especially as Canadians. Like, I mean, I'm not joking. Like Home Alone is the movie that made me want to make movies and like and, and her being in it. And, and then I, as we got older, we just became obsessed with like Christopher guest films and waiting for Guffman and, and things like that. And, and, and Beetlejuice was one of my favorite movies ever growing up. So to us, she was just like as funny as, as a person could be, you know, and then I mean, getting to work with her on the first season. Like it really like pushed us to want to do right by her and to want to make the show live up to her standards and what we felt she deserved. And she plays your sort of mentor in this. And she plays my mentor and kind of a maternal figure to me, which she sort of was at times as we were making the show and would send us notes on the scenes. We completely rewrite the scenes. And I was saying like the most Canadian way ever, she would send me an email being like, here's some thoughts and then would be a completely rewritten version of the scene. And it would be like taking her leave. And it was like such a funny Canadian way of being like, this is better. You should do this, but not never said with those words, you know. And then it was just incredibly sad. We just started to hear she was sick and we'd see her and we heard she wasn't doing well. And as we were nearing the second season, you know, it was we would just talk to her and it was clear health was not great, but she really wanted to come back and intended to come back. And and I think it was a real like goal for her to come back and keep doing the show. And I think she was really looking forward to coming back and doing the show. And then honestly, in the back of our heads, we were like, we hope she can, but we don't know if she will be able to. And so it is this kind of very sad thing where like kind of creatively, you're kind of making like in the back of your head, these contingency plans, but you kind of don't want to think about it. But your brain is kind of telling you one thing and you're trying not to believe it in some ways, you know. Yeah. And then we heard she passed away one morning and it was the first week of shooting the show and it was really, really sad. And and we were all together, the whole crew and everyone loved her very much and the cast and we kind of didn't know what to do. And and we just kept shooting and they were like, I think the idea of like making each other laugh and being together felt preferable to anything else we could have done that day, you know. Yeah. I'm sorry. So I want to go back a little bit to your upbringing. You grew up in Vancouver. I sure did. You started in comedy really young. You started playing stand up in clubs at 13. Yeah. And your mom was really encouraging. Uh-huh. She would let you stay out, stay up all night working on your routines. And I think that's pretty unusual for a parent, whether every moment of tension with her about it, that you want to do things that she wasn't letting you or is she just letting you kind of open that door and walk through it? Um, I mean, she was there all the time. So it wasn't that it wasn't like unsupervised freedom, you know what I mean? Like so at once it didn't it's funny, like freedom is not the word I would use to describe it. It was more like she was just very supportive of a goal I had. It didn't feel like my mom was just like taking me to comedy clubs to hang out. Like I was there to do something, you know, and and and the comedians were old and I didn't like hanging out with them that much. Honestly, like it was fine to hang out with them, but I wasn't like, I want to be friends with these guys. Like I was I was I was a teen. I had teenager friends, you know what I mean? Like and every time I did hang out with them socially was weird. And so that wasn't the goal either. Like it wasn't like I wanted to hang out with these old guys and get drunk or anything like that. Like it more felt like I was really like ravenously pursuing a thing and my parents recognized like I was unique in a way that I was like pursuing this thing in a very serious way, you know, use the word ravenously. That's such an interesting word. Is that how it felt? Yeah, I think for sure one of the reasons that I I think especially from a young age like managed to work a lot was because I yeah had like a like a real hunger for it and was willing to really put in a huge amount of time and energy in a way that I, you know, I assume maybe like teenage athletes would you know, but for me it was it was this, you know, and I loved it. And when me and Evan started writing super bad together when we were 13 or 14, like it's all I wanted to do. Like, like I would we would skip school to write super bad. And I think even my parents could probably see like, oh, like this is he really likes this and he is really motivated to try to succeed at this, not in like a cute kid way, but in a way that felt real, I think, you know, Do you look back and think it's weird that you and Evan connected at 13 in this, you know, but and it has just been this incredible partnership. It just seems to me that two boys who connected so fundamentally and had so much talent were able to be at the same place at the same time and and keep in touch. Yeah, we marvel at it all the time. Like it's not lost on us that it's sort of a like a miraculous thing. I think it was like two people with like a little spark met, but then together we became a singular kind of creative entity in a lot of ways and like we're brain our brains weren't even like fully formed when we met like our brains. Like our creative brains really formed around one another and like, I think that's not any small part of why we work so well together why we continue to work well together as we started like a very young age together. And there became like a cohesion and thought that was really like it's impossible to replicate I think because like we truly grew up with each other and watched movies together all the time would talk about them. First started to learn to write dialogue together and to experiment with that together and to try to structure a story together. And so inherently like what I think is good story structure is what he thinks is good story structure and what I think is good character development. He thinks is a character development and what I think is a good way to write a scene. He thinks is a good way to write a scene because we came up with it together. You ended up moving to LA at 16 to star in Freaks and Geeks after an open casting call in Vancouver where you got the part. And you know one of the things that is also really interesting is that you were started financially supporting your family at 16. Do you think that responsibility shaped your work ethic? I mean you talk about like absolutely loving what you were doing but that also feels like it might have been. For sure. Something that felt like a big deal. I think I very much had like a fear of going broke and a fear of not having money and a lot of my friends were much more well off than we were. And I would just see I would go to their houses. It was like a real house and like I grew up in like a co-op like in sort of you know in like a little housing community basically. It was like sort of between like an apartment and a condo I guess you know. And yeah I for sure and we were never like you know we weren't like going hungry or anything but I could just see I was in a very different financial situation than everyone that I was kind of in my community you know. I'm sure that had something to do with my drive from a young age. Has that shaped how you think about money and success now? I think if anything this is probably not like the healthiest way to approach it is like I think I spent so much time worried about money when I was younger that now that I make more money than I ever thought I would like. I think like the gift I've given to myself is I never think about it. Like I have no I almost never think about how much money I'm spending or making. I don't fetishize money. I don't care if other people are making more money than me doing the exact same thing as me. I don't have like an ego about it. I am making more than than I ever thought I would. And so I see other actors who are very competitive. I've had conversations with other actors about it you know and and and and that has just not been my approach to it. And as far as spending money goes like it's again not a thing. I see rich people who are like I'm like you're focused on that amount of money like like the amount of stress you are causing yourself over an amount of money that will never impact your life in any way shape or form is insane to me. And so I think like the gift I've given myself is I truly spend as little time thinking about it as humanly possible. And as little time trying to focus on it or fixate on it. I try not to be overly principled about it. If I feel like I'm getting charged more because of who I am. I'm like yep that's the way if you're going to charge anyone more is probably me you know what I mean and and and that's the way the world works. I try not to be philosophically you know up in arms about my own you know financial situation in any way. I don't care if I'm getting ripped off a little I don't care if I'm overpaying for things a little honestly like I'm not again and I'm around people all the time we're always who are rich who are trying to get deals and trying to get a break and trying to get like they trying to feel like they are or makes them feel special or something more it's funny like there's this I read this book on I read that going clear book or every once in a while you know like you read like one sentence and it like snaps your whole perspective into place a little bit. And I remember reading that book about Scientology and there was just one sentence in it about how famous people tend to do a thing where if they aren't treated in a certain way they it makes them think they're not as talented as they wish they were. And it's like if I go to a restaurant and I have to wait 20 minutes for a table instead of them just seating me right away as they are the famous person next to me is it because I'm not as am I not as talented as I thought I was I'm not as good as I thought I was if I'm you know if I'm trying to get into a party and and they don't just let me in and I have to wait in line like. Does that mean I'm not as good a writer as I thought I was if I'm not getting a deal if I'm not getting the best hotel room and I go next door and someone has a nicer hotel room than me on the press tour. Does that mean that I am not as good an actor as I thought I was and I think that is how a lot of famous people interpret how they are treated and they think that if they're not getting the best treatment. They aren't as skilled as they wish they were as they thought they were and that was a thing that I realized when I read that it's like oh it is tapping into some deep part of me that makes me worried I'm not as talented as I as I as I want to be as I wish I was or or and that's it because that's like the thing you fear the most and is the most potentially painful. How did you work through that how did you because obviously you said you felt that at some point and then it changed for you. Honestly as soon as I read that one sentence it started to shift for me and I started to much more easily identify myself when that was happening and I was able to sort of I think shift my behavior pretty quickly in the wake of that. Once you've moved out of that how do you define your success what are the metrics by which you say you know what this is good I did well I'm OK. I mean I wish it had nothing to do with how the work was received but it for sure doesn't. Like that that is definitely a part of it you know obviously obviously and and I think that is the thing that most artists feel the most conflict about is like external validation versus did I do what I wanted to do but the truth is if my work isn't received. Well then I then I didn't do what I wanted to do because because I want people to like what I do and to enjoy it and especially when you're making comedy which I think is the hardest thing to make in a lot of ways because you are announcing that you are going for a specific reaction. And with a dramatic film you're not really saying that you're kind of saying like you know we hope you find it insightful or interesting or meaningful or sad or cathartic but with a comedy you're saying like I want you to laugh. And if you don't I failed and it's also the making of it to me like that has to go a certain way and that has to be a certain process I think in order for the work to be successful and I think the day to day of it has to be cohesive to what I feel that should be in order for me to think the work is good I think. I'm just very interested in this so last question on this but when I look at the studio you are the creator the producer the director you help write it and you start in it so it is really a Seth Rogen production and every possible way that it could be. And then just to use you know the film that you're currently in you're just acting and obviously you helped craft the character and the dynamics but it's not you don't have the same kind of responsibility. No my name is on it one time. Yeah so can you parse that out for me in terms of that idea of getting satisfaction or having it reflect yourself how do you differentiate between those two different things. I mean the the truth is like I for me it is much more engaging to do what I'm doing on the studio like I I greatly prefer to act and write and direct and it's really hard and taxing. It sounds really hard. It takes a lot of me but I genuinely love it and I never feel like I am doing more of what I should and could be doing from like a creative standpoint than when I'm doing all those things and when I'm on the set of the studio and I'm I appreciate the the crushing pressure and the focus and what is required of me in order to do all those jobs well and when I am able to do that. I'm able to actually do them all well I feel a level level of creative satisfaction and gratification that I will never get from just doing one of those things you know and so if I'm going to act in a thing it has to be a thing that I feel like I would really love the product of a movie that if I saw it I was like oh like that's the exact type of movie I love to watch and and So like being in the fable men Steven Spielberg. Yes, a thing like that you're like of course I'm going to work with Steven Spielberg and and and it'll be educational and and I and I then make it put it on myself to really like extract everything I can from from the experience as well and and even if I'm acting for an hour a day I I'm on set all day and I literally stood beside and just asked him questions I would bring up scenes from his movies on YouTube and just be like explain to me how you did this what how what did you think of how techy. Technically did you do it and he loved it and I really yeah I did that and and I was just stood beside him all day asking him questions about how we filmed his movies and how he conceived them how he blocks them how he storyboards how he you know like I think what I learned about blocking on the fable men's is like was like directly put in the studio and how to move the actors around and move the camera around the characters and how to make it dynamic even a scene where people are at a dinner table talking and like all that I was like oh I'm going to absorb all of this from from Steven Spielberg if I can. So the way I read your on screen and off screen history as we sort of discussed it's sort of a testament to male friendship. There's Judd Apatow of course who hired you for Freaks and Geeks and then you met a whole bunch of buddies through that Jason Siegel James Franco and of course you've had the same writing partner Evan Goldberg as we've discussed. I asked you earlier what makes a good relationship. What makes a good male friendship. I think the same things is any other dynamic you know like like I found with you know Evan and the people you know I tend to work with my close friends not all of them I have very close friends from growing up who I don't work with. But you know I think like a desire to be good to one another which again sounds intuitive I guess but I think when I look at people who have bad relationships and bad dynamics like that's the thing I notice is just like they don't seem to want to be nice to each other and they seem to be looking for every reason to not be nice to each other and I think it comes down to like do you like this person you know and I come from a world yeah where it's like it was not like a macho sports oriented like environment like everyone's parents were in therapy and you know like I'm from the I'm from the Pacific Northwest you know we were ahead of the curve on a lot of that stuff in the 80s and 90s and so I think. Like I come from a group of friends who were very like communicative and open and not afraid of sort of sharing what they were feeling with one another. Why do you think that version of male friendship translated so well on screen. Me and Evan still marvel that like super bad is still remotely not just like accepted in today's society but as a thing like kids still really seem to watch. Yes and just like when we were young we would all watch we would watch fast times and things like that like it seems like. Super bad has somehow like filled the slot in many ways of like the high school movie you you watch and relate to when you are in high school you know and and I think part of it is because like it is. It is about exploring. Kind of being vulnerable with your friends you know and and that I think is is a coming of age thing like in and of its own right you know and I remember. When I was moving to L.A. I was I did a bunch of shrooms with my friends I was 16 years old and we were all at their house we were at one of my friends houses and it was like the sun was coming up and I was laying on the couch. And my friend Fogle who McLovin is based on was was there laying on the couch beside me the other like we were he was like a sleepover and we were kind of you know and I remember just being like I'm so terrified to like move to Los Angeles to do this show and I'm not going to do this show. And I'm not going to see you guys anymore and I have no friend know anybody out there and and he was like yeah man like high school ends next year for us to like I don't know where any of us are going to college we're going to be friends anymore if any of this is going to happen and like. It felt like a big moment and it felt like the first time any of us had really acknowledged one another like how much we cared about one another and how. Afraid we would be without one another you know and I think that's like a feeling especially as high school ends and you're kind of going your separate ways for me it was to go work but it was no different than. If I was going to college and all my friends are going to a different one you know and I think that. A little different a little different for all you know for logistically it was very similar you know and and I think. That feeling was what we really tried to put into the movie was this feeling of. You know not that high school is easy but there's. You're on the cusp of something you're on the cusp of something unknown and I think that was. However we were able to like bottle that feeling and put it into the movie seems to resonate. I mean one interesting thing about your character and the invite is that he has no friends. And I mean it just seems pretty reflective of what's happening in the culture today more broadly with men you know the loneliness epidemic. Sure and I just wonder is Hollywood doing a good job of showing positive male friendships the way it used to. I don't know. Because I think about. I'm thinking about super bad and then I just know it just really when I thought about your character and the invite and just what we're seeing in the culture at large and as someone who has really channeled male. Representation on screen I mean I came up with the weapons. You know fairs feelers day off super bad yeah things just don't seem to look like that anymore. I think I mean it's interesting yeah like we try to do it on the studio a little bit you know there's stuff with me and I like I think ultimately like that is a relationship we do keep like it's probably the most emotionally kind of constant relationship on the show and. But I don't know why other people don't explore it I know we have just done it a lot and so I think it's something as we look to it's like I mean it's funny we did this roast many years ago. And Nick Kroll had a joke that really hit close to home where he was making fun of me and Evan on the roast and he was like. What are you guys going to make another movie where they're friends that they stop being friends and at the end their friends again. And I remember like being like oh yeah that's that is every movie we've ever made and not to say that's a bad thing but the fact that he could boil it down that's that's simply into a joke. I think we were like yeah maybe we should move away from that a little bit. I'm going to ask you about a friendship that you did have a public break with which was your friendship with James Franco after allegations of sexual misconduct were leveled against him. I am curious about how you work through that decision and did that change the way you think about friendship at all. I mean I'm trying to think how much I want to personally share about this. I understand that. The reason I ask is this I think as a culture we are still grappling with if and how we allow people who've behaved badly back into our lives back into the culture. And so I was sort of wondering about you know what was a very seminal relationship for you. Yeah like I honestly think the nuance of it is too personal for me to get into right now. Like it is a very personal thing and I think there's like the public facing side of it which I've spoken about and and I and I have the same stance publicly that that I've had. And I think the proof is in the pudding more than anything is just I haven't I have not worked with him in years you know. But like the personal side of it is just it's it's so nuanced and it involves people that I don't know if I should be dragging into this and and and I think it's you know I don't know what I would benefit from getting deeply into it in this moment. But I'd say everything I've said I nothing is nothing has changed really since since the last time I've talked about all this and I haven't worked with him in a really long time and I've no plans to. I haven't talked to him a long time now. So I want to ask you about your on-screen relationships with women because I love Platonic where you have a deep friendship with Roseburn who's also like a regular collaborator with you. Yeah she's great. So how have you sort of thought about the female male dynamic on screen because Platonic literally is again about friendship it's not romantic. Yeah. It's so interesting considering your your previous comments about not finding the romantic dynamic interesting that this is a central storyline here. Yeah I mean I think it can again I think can be like reductive like I think of like for so long. That was the only dynamic there was between a man and woman on screen essentially it was was a romantic one and part of it is just like what's what is new that that hasn't been explored but is true to all of our lives or many of our lives anyway and and and it's funny like I think so much over thinking it in some ways goes into like what makes a funny female character in relation to a funny male character you know and do they have to come up with that. Do they have to be smart do they have to be dumb is it dumb is it bad if they're dumb is it sexist if they're dumb or is it sexist if they're smart like I've seen I've seen both things argued I've seen you know it's like oh you don't want to give her the dumb care but like that's often the funnier characters the dumb character you know what I mean and the worst choices a character makes often the more comedic way they can perform as a as an actor you know but they're dumb you know and so like I mean Marilyn Monroe is one of the great comedic actresses of her day exactly so I think like. To me what I've found with to be the healthiest conversations is just like what creates the most comedic potential if that is what you're trying to do you know. And to not. Try to. I think as soon as you start to think too globally and lose sight of like the thing you're making is when you get lost in the weeds a little bit and and and and and what does that mean. If you start to feel like well like what we are saying with this is like men are like this and women are like this like that to me is so much harder to wrap my head around and like what I'm saying is this guy is like this and this woman is like this like. Like that's funny to this and and what we are doing is making it work for this and and as long as it works it's good you know what I mean and as long as it is it's funny you you you're not thinking. Is he dumb or is he smarter is she dumb or you're just thinking it works and and all of a sudden all the. Stigmas and the and the history and the conversation around it kind of falls by the wayside because you're just watching the thing that works you know what I mean and so. And so that's what I've seen work is like with platonic it just is you know roses character is like doing incredibly stupid things all the time making incredibly poor choices being irresponsible putting people in danger putting people at risk doing things that. Again I guess you could like philosophically argue like is it is it great to portray anyone like that is it good are we what are we saying about women when we do this what are we saying about men when we do this but I think. What they do so well on that show is like they're not trying to do that they're like what makes this character. Allow Rose burn to give the funniest performance you could possibly give and be as funny in these scenes as she could possibly be and I think like. I find like these kind of heavier conversations about theme and society and culture like hopefully that's just within you and will come out through your work because it's organic to your perspective you know. Do you think Hollywood has become more risk averse. Okay. Yeah 100% yes. Period. And just like and we've just seen it like you know super bad's a good example like when we made that movie they bought our script they hired a director they said it would have a $20 million budget and it would start shooting in August or in April of that year and it would come out in. August in like August of the following year. That's it and then we cast the movie we found a director for the movie we made it according to their schedule and we released it on the date they chose that would never happen today in 100 million years. No studio would just buy a script give it a release date cast it and then make it now everything has to be in place before the release date. And then they will decide whether or not they're making it who's the director who are the actors are they famous enough do they have big enough names. If not then we got to change we got to get different ones or else we won't make it and I know we wanted to start shooting in April and release it next summer but if we don't have the right actors we're not going to do that because we think these actors will get us more money than these actors even though they might not be the funniest actors for the role they might be more commercial for the role. Not to say you won't ultimately get to the funniest people for the role but you'll have to go through an incredible process to do it in a way that is all due to risk aversion you know like Amy Pascal was willing to just say like make this movie you'll put the funniest people in it. That will make the best version of the movie and the best version of this movie is what will make us the most money that is not said anymore really in Hollywood. As I was preparing for this interview I was looking at your list of credits and you know it's just astonishing when you sort of sit with it producing the hit superhero series the boys acting in the invite voicing kung fu panda platonic the studio. I mean there's just like a lot there and I was recently watching Judd Apatow's excellent documentary on Mel Brooks and thinking. That you're our generation's Mel Brooks I mean you've already made comedies that have sort of defined a generation you're only 44. I mean is he someone that you've modeled your career on. Honestly what I love Mel I more modeled my career off of like Harold Ramis and you know and I would look at like. You know not on a personal level but I was a big my parents love Woody Allen movies when I was a kid you know and I was sort of inundated with like Hannah and her sisters and things like that and. And Mel Brooks I mean I like it's funny like space balls like I watch space balls before Star Wars probably a hundred million times but. What's funny is I never had like too close of a plan or too specific of a goal or I never looked at anyone's career really and was like I want that career I. I think when I was in my early 20s I sort of surpassed any expectation I could have had for myself in many ways and and and after that I sort of. Saw that like the greatest gift I could give to myself was to like do whatever creatively excited me in whatever moment I was in and not working towards something like I'll only be happy if I do this and if it once I do this I'll know I've made it you know like I I. I felt like I made it when I was 23 years old and so after that I was like I I think I should just do what seems exciting to me and and and it is funny because sometimes I will do an interview and look back and I'll be like wow I'm doing a lot of a lot of stuff and it's and it's a weird array of stuff and but I look at and it's a stuff it's stuff that truly reflects my taste and who I am and my sensibilities me and Evan grew up reading comic books we were upset that's one of the first things we bonded on and so getting to adapt. Conqueror Garth Ennis with my favorite comic writers of all time so getting to make preacher and the boys and things like that especially like. You know I remember like David Fincher was attached to make preacher and then it fell apart and we ended up making it in the boys like every big director in Hollywood was attached to adapt the boys at one point or another and we just sort of like. Hung out in the background for a decade until everyone else fell through and we became the most viable option to turn it down. It wasn't really turned down the it didn't work out. It is tricky and we changed it quite a bit from the source material I think to make it into something that was far more digestible as as as visual entertainment than that it would have been otherwise you know. But I think like the greatest gift I have in my career is that I truly we can kind of do anything and we can make dramatic things and comedic things and animated things and live action things and things like Ninja Turtles honestly like has been one of my favorite things we've made in years and like I love that movie and I think it's so good and so reflective of. My taste in my sensibility and what I loved when I was a kid but also infused with like. The highest level of writing and storytelling and plot construction that I could fathomably have helped conceive of in that time in my life and I look at how it's constructed from like a structure and story standpoint and I'm like. Legitimately very proud of it and I think like oh that is like as well structured of film as you can make in many ways and my hope is that our work just. Clearly has had the highest level of thought and care and consideration put into it no matter what it is and like as risk averse as Hollywood is I'm always trying to instill in the people that we work with like. We can take a swing let's take it if no one's looking let's do something crazy if no one's if we're in this moment where no one's paying attention like let's let's make Ninja Turtles look insane like let's let's really push it and to me I also hope our work has that sort of like intrepid spirit like. A spirit of that we are going for it and that we are not playing it safe but we are swinging for the fences you know. Seth Rogan thank you so much we'll speak again thank you. After the break I talked to Seth again and ask him about AI. The worst person you know who has any interest in writing is probably more helpful to you ultimately then some like artificial intelligence program. Opening up cross play I've been playing against Dan my colleague at the New York Times I'm going to play stoop STU PE across the trip forward multiplier square. Cats played another move and she did have an S she played stoop for 36 points I've got a Z which is 10 points I can put my ex over there I can make box. I have two A's ins and T's I'm guessing Tanga is not a word let's see Tanga is a word oh. Don't know what Tanga means so I'm going to press down on the word and oh definition popped up former monetary unit of Tajikistan and something every time I play this game. Even though I'm about 50 points ahead one thing I've learned in cross plays that the game is never over. I just got a notification and Dan played his last turn let's see who won it's so close but I did win. New York Times game subscribers get full access to cross play our first two player word game subscribe now for a special offer on all of our games. Seth Rogen so glad to talk to you again. Back. All right. In our first conversation we talked about opportunities for young people coming up in Hollywood and how the industry has changed and possibly you know someone like you wouldn't have the same sort of opportunities to make movies today. And then we just saw two YouTubers dominate the box office one of them came Parsons the director of back rooms is 20 he was 16 when he made the YouTube video the movie is based on and then Curry Barker the director of obsession. The director of addiction is 26 these have just been like huge successes. I mean what do you make of that. I mean honestly it totally fits in line with advice that I have been giving people for years when they come up to me which is they say I want to make it in movies I want to do something. Make stuff and make stuff that that is really good and I'm like trust me people like me are like begging that praying that they see something impressive. I met with Kane when I think he was 16 or 17 years old because I watched his YouTube videos. And I remember the people at my company being like why are we meeting with a 16 year old. I was like trust me this kid is very talented you know and so ever since our phones had cameras on them basically I've been that has become my default advice to people and now with blender and visual facts and things like that people like on literally on a laptop you can make a thing that that that when I was growing up would cost you tens of millions of dollars you know. It is really open the door for people who are skilled and dedicated to really show what they're they're capable of you know and and I think that that's a great thing. Hollywood always seems to be in the middle of like an angsty crisis. Variety called what just happened with these two YouTubers a quote tectonic shift in Hollywood that sent shockwaves through the industry. I do wonder first of all what you make of that I mean do you think that's overstating what just happened because I guess what I think is so alluring to executives is that YouTubers as you just mentioned have cheap technology that they can use to get millions of eyeballs they can workshop an idea. And then have a built in audience so I guess it takes the guesswork out of selling tickets so I'm just wondering how you see it since you already were tracking him for so long. Yeah I mean I don't I don't know if like online engagement necessarily translates into like ticket sales definitely you know what I mean. But I think your first part of the question like I think it's overstating that it's a tectonic shift. If your assumption is that these shifts don't happen constantly in Hollywood you know like and I think that's something me and Evan talk about a lot is it's from network like I always think that line of network where Robert Duvall is like it's a volatile industry and the investors are like well we we shouldn't be why are we financially invested in a volatile industry and and but I think by definition it is a volatile industry you know and it changes and it's almost the one defining feature of the of Hollywood from my experience in it is that there is every few years a tectonic shift and thank God it's not really my job to be overly invested in these trends I guess and I'm able to sort of keep my head down and and and we're aware of them again and and and we'll kind of ride the waves of them if it fits in with our own creative ambitions you know and I'm more than happy to like say in a pitch how whatever I'm doing maybe fits into the trend of what I hope the executive on pitching to or assume the executive on pitching to is looking for but to me yeah like I it's not that shocking to me that something like this happen there's like a whole generation of people who have access to essentially professional filmmaking equipment for a price that again when I was young was like completely unobtainable and they're and they're making their own stuff and studios are are making tons of money off of it which again is not that different than like when lonely island and those guys made YouTube videos and people hired them or when the broad city girls made their show on YouTube and people hired them or when you know Nathan field they're all the a lot of people like in comedy it's a little more common place I think but I think now with technology it's allowing people who really thrive in different genres genres that traditionally maybe require more resources to really kind of show what they can do and again in studios will be more than happy to capitalize off of that whenever they see an opportunity to let me ask you just as an aside what makes a good pitch I think a good pitch is short generally speaking honestly like I and I think a pitch and I'm not I'm not someone who I assume is great at pitching honestly you know I'm sure so I'm just curious if the idea is genuinely good the pitch is kind of easy and I'm actually get kind of suspicious of people who are like good pitchers to be like the quintessential pitch I'm used to hear is from like a nervous comedy writer who has terrible people skills who has no ability to like present themselves in in a way that is nearly representative of what they're capable of you know what I mean and so when someone comes into slick and flashy I get a little suspicious honestly but I'm just looking for the idea I know myself I've had so many ideas that are so hard to pitch I remember trying to pitch people pineapple express and then just like looking at us like we were insane and trying to pitch this is the end and people looking at us like we were crazy and like with the studio when we pitch that our only thought was to like way over deliver what makes it easy for these people whose entire job is like risk mitigation to say yes to me and so they could see like oh it has a cast and I don't have to imagine like who's this character like it's this person who's this character it's this person like and I think it showed like we really like we're geared towards making the show and not just towards like writing the show for money which is another thing a lot of people do you know one of the other sort of big disruptors in Hollywood is of course AI and you've been you know vocally against AI is use and writing and in animation do you feel like you're standing against the tide and why are you standing against the tide because again I guess it's like a you know I think the executives view it as like a cost savings right because I think they see it as a way to execute in a way that doesn't require as many people as you can and I think like I guess I look to the different sectors of the industry like I know a lot of people who work in visual effects who think who are visual effects artists truly who think AI can help them do their work better but they work in a field where technology is something they are having to navigate in order to do their job to what they view is the best of their abilities I don't think writing has that problem. You know what I mean? I don't think if you're having a hard time writing that technology is the thing that is in your way. I think it is either your dedication or your skills or your abilities or just the amount of time you spent doing it. And the amount you have to develop your own abilities to match what it is you're hoping you're putting out in the world. You know? And I'm only speaking for my own personal interest in it. You know what I mean? Like, I know other writers who do use, you know, chat GPT to have conversations, I guess, about their ideas. It's just not a thing that has ever interested me. And it's not a thing that I ever was even remotely tempted to engage with because I have a writing process that I really enjoy. You know what I mean? But I do understand how you, if you are alone somewhere in your apartment writing, trying to write a script, having no one to talk to about it, no one in your life cares that you're doing this. I definitely understand the temptation to use a like artificial intelligence as some sort of sounding board because working alone is very hard and scary, you know? But I think I would advise people to seek out some sort of creative community. And even like the worst person you know who has any interest in writing is probably more helpful to you ultimately than some like artificial intelligence program to talk about your writing with. You're not going to have an Evin AI bot to be. Exactly. All right. Hard pivot. As I mentioned, you were on Howard Stern where you told a lot of stories about drugs. Yeah. And you said the only time that you were drug free was on a trip to Singapore where drugs are illegal on penalty of death. And I really was curious because you didn't describe the experience of what it was like not to be high for the first time since you were a kid. It was fine. It's not, it's not that weird. Like, I, yeah, I, it was fine. And I go straight, like it's not like I, in my day to day life, I am not in a position where I can just smoke weed literally all day every day at all times. Like I, you know, last week we were filming in some skyscraper downtown. I couldn't smoke weed in there. And so I went, I went all day without smoking weed and it's pretty, you know, it's not like I'm freaking out or anything. It's just, you know, I'm a little happier if I can smoke weed all day. That's all. Yeah. I mean, you've helped normalize cannabis use. When I think about pineapple express to today, it's been a complete sea change. Yes. And I think it's a real testament to the cultural impact of your work. Was that an explicit aim or just sort of a fortunate byproduct? I'd say it was a, I'd say it was sort of a specific aim, but a very like personal one. Like, I don't think our goal was like, if this works, we will change culture's view on weed. I think it was more like we don't like how we are stigmatized as people who smoke weed. And I think the ultimate way to show that people who smoke a lot of weed are not who you think they are is to really proficiently make an entire movie about people who smoke weed implicitly by people who smoke weed. That is for people who smoke weed, but is actually like has the thought and care and consideration and, and, and technical kind of acumen put into it that, that like any real Hollywood movie has. And I think to us, that's kind of what had never been done before. Friday is probably the closest one, you know, and I love that movie. But, but even that was sort of like a very, I think they moved that movie for like almost no money, you know, it was a very small movie. And, and I think that movie kind of had an outsize impact. But yeah, we were really kind of on a personal level trying to be like, what if we made like a real, like a real weed movie? And people saw that like it wasn't this like outcast thing for idiots. It was the thing that could be as mainstream as, as anything, you know, and we were shocked when it was so. We embraced honestly in that today when I go to the weed store, the fact that there's like Pineapple Express weed that exists is like so funny, I think. And, and like a real direct kind of descendant of, of the movie. And I think the fact that, yeah, that it was a weed movie that, and even when we were promoting that movie, like it was not easy. Like, you know, they people, I remember going on TRL, which dates this story and like really, literally right before I went on, they were like, Oh, and you can't talk about weed at all. And I'm like, I'm here to promote a movie. Like the movie's title is, is, is weed. Like, what am I going to talk about? And they were like, I don't know, figure it out, but you can't, you literally can't mention weed on, on the show. How do you promote that movie without mentioning weed? Well, what I think I did is I did talk about it and then they like aired it once and then it scrubbed it from TRL existence. Yeah, it was tough. Okay. Before I say goodbye, you're filming the studio today. Anything that you can say about the new season? Anything at all? I don't know. Um, I can say it's, it's far more ambitious than the first season. And I, honestly, like there's been many times I've been on set this season and I've been, I, I've been truly amazed at, at what, in a way that has offered me a lot of gratification and pride. Like, I've been amazed at what we've been able to pull off and the people we've been able to talk into doing the show and, and the people I've gotten to work with. And, and I've watched the episodes and I really feel as though I'm pushing myself more and more. I'm excited and nervous for people to see it. But as we make it, it feels like we have tried to up our game and, and there are moments where I really feel like we are doing something that I'm very proud of. Seth Rogen, thank you so much. Thank you so much. That's Seth Rogen. The invite is in theaters June 26th. To watch this interview and many others, you can subscribe to our YouTube channel at youtube.com slash at symbol, the interview podcast. This conversation was produced by Seth Kelly. It was edited by John Woo, mixing by Sophia Landman, original music by Marion Lazano, photography by Devon Yalkin. The rest of the team is Priya Matthew, Wyatt Orm, Paola Newdorf, Joe Bill Munoz, Alejandro Soto-Goyko, Kathleen O'Brien and Brooke Minters. Our executive producer is Allison Benedict. Next week, David talks with the prolific actor, writer and producer Danny McBride about what exactly is over the line. It is funny writing comedy and then writing horror where people can get offended from jokes, obviously. I mean, it happens all the time. But for some reason with horror, there's none of that. You're just like, we're just coming up with cool ways to kill people and like, nobody's upset about it. It's you're just allowed to. I'm Lulu Garcia-Navarro and this is the interview from The New York Times. This week on The Wirecutter Show, we're going to have a new noise-canceling earbud pick. It has a fantastic noise-canceling microphone, like magical. We're taking your questions about headphones, earbuds, over-ear, Bluetooth, bone conduction. Lauren Dragon, longtime headphones writer for Wirecutter, answers it all with her expert recommendations. Find it wherever you like to listen.