Real Estate Is a Terrible Part-Time Job

angelo fierro welcome to the firecast thank you for having me guys it's a pleasure thank you very much glad you're here always bring an abundance of energy and and focus and uh had the uh good fortune of knowing you for probably the last seven years and uh and uh a lot to learn and unpack here today so we're excited let's do it so am i so am i let's do it so maybe a little bit just your background. How long in real estate? Well, I like to say that licensed for 21 years, committed for 16, 15, 16 years. That took a little while to get my bearings in the business. I moved out to LA 22 years ago from New York. Had a small group of college friends here that you know, helped make it feel like home. But for the business, I didn't really know a lot of people. So it took a while to just figure out kind of my direction, my place in our exciting real estate market and, you know, what I would be doing. Why real estate? You know, good question. I got licensed in college i went to boston university and my uncle um who lives in the north end which is like the probably the nicest little italy in the in the country uh he uh is a real he was a real estate investor and uh one day he just you know i was looking for work and because my parents wanted me to work while i was in school i was looking for internships and one day he just goes man, why you don't get a real estate license? And I was like, you know what, I'll do that. And I got licensed in Boston. And my junior and senior year, I did mostly rentals, but sold a couple of places. And Boston Beantown was a great, great place to do it, especially during college. When rentals were great to do. And that's when I did it. Then I kind of at the end of college, As I was graduating, I kind of felt like I needed to get in touch with my creative side and got the acting bug. Moved to New York City, went to acting school there and mostly acted in New York City, worked in restaurants. Shout out to Bar Petey in the West Village. And my wife and I, we moved to the South Seaport. We moved in together. And it was about a week before 9-11. And then 9-11 happened. and we were about four blocks away. And right after, about a month after 9-11, we were some of the only people that actually got on a plane to come to a wedding here in L.A., at Union Station. The wedding was in Union Station. Okay, wow, wow. And the reception was. And I fell in love with it. You know, I kind of, you know, as an East Coaster, you you're kind of born being an LA hater it's kind of like in your DNA and I agree we're uh Philadelphia and Pittsburgh and and and what people think LA is uh that aren't there who are not from LA it's amazing as opposed to the reality of it exactly and while we were uh while we were taking a break smoking a cigarette outside of the of Union Station I just looked over to my wife and well we were dating at the time and I was like I was like you know baby I was like you know what I think I've been the victim of a bandwagon effect you know I don't understand why I haven't liked this place yeah it's incredible there's nothing I have to like yeah and a year later I moved out here and then she moved out she followed me a year after I moved out and that was your then girlfriend now wife yes okay yes yes yeah that's awesome and so uh did you pursue acting in LA for a while did you go yeah yep I did in the beginning when I first got licensed I was working in restaurants sure shooting doing commercials sure a couple of TV shows sure and doing open houses doing show you know did you get your license right out of the gate when you moved here though or no okay got it so I moved out here in 2002 sorry 2003 yeah 2002 2003 and got licensed in 2006. Okay. And one of the things that I always think about in terms of real estate is that it's a, it's a very bad part-time job. Now, somebody, I'm also open, right? I've been doing this for 25 years, coaching a lot of realtors. And I always say, you know, it's, it's a bad part-time job, but here you are, um, you know, acting, uh, working at restaurants, you're obviously meeting a lot of people that can tend to create a sphere. Um, how, how did you break into real estate really as a, as a full-time gig? When I moved out here, um, my, uh, one of my roommates from college, he's a native Los Angelino. He passed away during COVID. And he picked me up at the airport. And he showed up with a bottle of whiskey and a Thomas Guide. And in the Thomas Guide, he wrote, Angelo, this is going to be your best friend. And I had this little Ford Focus, you know, had leopard skin covered seats. I called it I called it my cramp puff. Okay, you know, like from Scarface. And I drove around the entire city with that Thomas guy in my lap. And, and I think if we could get a photo of that, of you in that car, we would put that in the show notes. Absolutely. I don't know if I have a photo. But if I do, I'll look for it. And for those who don't know a Thomas guide, it's obviously pre-nav, pre-navigation, and a Thomas guide, did you ever use a Thomas guide? I'm not sure I ever used it. Okay, good for you, because it just shows you how smart and spatially oriented you are. A Thomas guide for me was a nightmare. It was about that thick, and each page represented a little tiny section of LA, and if you wanted to Yeah, connect the dots. You had to go E4 to 5, 6 and flip the thing, and I'm like, forget it. And that's how I learned every neighborhood. When I got here, I'm very kind of being oriented is a big part of being important to me wherever I go. When I moved to New York City from college, we moved to Italy when I was 15 years old and went to high school there. So that was a big part of getting acclimated. Yep. And when I got out here, I was like, this city is just enormous. Correct. And you have your north-souths and your east and west kind of points, but everything in between is just… It's a nightmare. It's so big. And even there were parts of the east coast. I lived in Washington, D.C. It was on a grid. And then there was this sort of secret code where the streets were in alphabetical order. And then once you hit Z, then it hit double A. I mean, there was this whole code that once you knew it, you could figure your way around. Really against the ocean, you know, you could really have the east as a demarcation. And in L.A., I look out my window, I see the ocean, and I'm like, okay, well, that must be west. And I'm like, oh, no, you're on the lake, whatever. You know, I pull out the compass. It's like, it's north. I'm like, wait a minute. You know, because even the coastline isn't straight. One thing about L.A. also, which is very unique, is that, and I have to say, you know, I wish I'd come up with myself, but I heard a quote from Sofia Coppola, and she said that, who loves L.A., and she said, you know, L.A. is not a place. It's a tapestry of these very distinct neighborhoods all sewn together. So there are cities, people believe that the entertainment industry drives Los Angeles. In the same way I lived in Washington, D.C., I will tell you, government and law drive that town. So everybody either works for the government or they're a lawyer or work in some political form. Maybe Detroit, for example, driven by the car industry at one point in time, Pittsburgh, was a steel industry. And it just dominates. And in L.A., I mean… It's everything. Yeah. So diverse. I had a friend that I had to convince him to try L.A. He's a professor. And he's like, well, I'm not into the industry thing. I'm not whatever. I'm like, you can spend your life, you know, barely bumping into industry people. And it really is true. Especially now. Oh, yeah. Especially now. Unfortunately, but especially now. And so as I kind of learned the city more and more, you know, I started seeing like these craftsman homes on the east side, Glendale, Pasadena. I loved the Adobe Spanish of, say, Beverly Grove, West Hollywood. Yep. even of the the silver lake area my first place was in silver lake and um then the mid-century moderns and the ranchers of the valley and then you get these like gorgeous you know hillside homes i really started connecting with it and i didn't realize yet that you know i kind of wanted to be there but once i uh i got licensed um you know you're worried about how am i going to generate business. That's the first thing. And it took me a while. I was on a great team. I had some great mentors. Did you start off on a team? I didn't start off, but then I went to one. Went to two, actually, one and then another one. And the second one, I was on the Sunset team and they were great. They were amazing. It was a phenomenal experience. And they at one point were, and it's certainly how I knew Angelo the first go around, they were at one point in time the most productive real estate team in West Hollywood, period. And they were also officed out of here. Yeah. And I'm still trying to find my way. And I was always like cold calling, door knocking, doing as many open houses as I could. And one day my daughter was born. And, you know, that changed it all right there. You know, I mean, just. And that was how many years in? And so that was that was 2006. She was born in 2009. OK. Yeah. So, you know, when she was born, I tore my Achilles a week after she was born, you know, because I needed to be on a football field a week after my daughter was born. So I tore my Achilles. I was home with her and the great part of that was I got to bond with her. So I was incapacitated for six months. But in that time I was thinking, you know, what kind of shift do I need to make to really make this happen? Tell me this is my career. And I just got this idea of, you know, I got to get a coach. I went to Tom Ferry. And Tom Ferry really changed it for me. Okay. And at that point, were you still on a team or no? Yes, that was probably like the tail end of being on the Sunset team. And so when you were trying to do it on your own, I'm just making these assumptions, but you're trying to do it on your own and it's awfully hard to start out in a new city, new big city on your own. Then you move to a team because you can kind of draft off of their name and their reputation and their lead gen. And, you know, obviously the splits are very different because when you're a junior member on the team, you're getting a much smaller piece, but at least you're getting a piece of something. And is this all this is all lining up? We learned from the because they did a lot of like building brand new. Oh, right. Sure. I know. Brand new construction. And so we learned how to look at the curb appeal of a property, how to determine feasibility of remodeling. And also something that's very useful, even if you're not doing the development yourself, very useful for realtors is to be able to look at a house and say to a client, hey, look, there's real opportunity here. And here's what we could do. Here's what you could do. and really know what strategic modifications you can make to enhance the experience and or the value. Because people are always fighting here where it's a high price point relative to affordability. They're always fighting with the like, well, I could afford a two-bedroom, one-bathroom, but I'm married and I have one kid and the second one's on the way. this isn't working, you know, but I really can't afford a four bed, you know, four bedroom, three bath, which is what we want. And this is where someone with Angelo's experience can go out and say, okay, well, look at, you know, here's a three, two, that's a little ramshackle. You know, we could fix this up for this amount of money and this amount of time for real, you know, we could build an ADU and now you've got a solution for a client that, you know, you're adding tremendous value. I got to say when you're starting out, you know, like learning all of all of the elements everything we need to know for our clients you know market how to prepare a house for sale um the kind of the nuances of every place these homes are in i mean one you're inspecting in weho with one inspector in the hills you're using completely different team of inspectors yeah so knowing all of these nuances throughout this like this enormous city is it takes years. It takes years. It takes a lot of work. We always talk about one of the things about LA amongst many that makes it really unique is how idiosyncratic it is and how every area is so unique to your point, which just enhances the value of an agent that's knowledgeable and knows what they're doing as opposed to many other areas are very cookie cutter and the product is very homogeneous. And therefore, there's not as much need for a great agent to provide value, whether you're on the buying or selling side. So I think that's a great point. And being that kind of knowledge broker, so to speak, just gives you an opportunity to build a business. I want to come back to a really important point. You talked about coaching and Tom Ferry. I guess, number one, what was like the catalyst for you starting that? And then dig a little deeper into like what why that was such an important sort of decision and what impact it had. And I think one of the things that Angelo said was, hey, you know, I had a daughter and that really like all of a sudden I'm like, hey, wait a second. It's your why. Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. And why coaching, though? Like, I get that for sure. I needed structure. You know, I'm ADD, at times ADHD, and I needed some kind of structure and I just couldn't figure out, you know, how to do it, you know, how to set it up for myself. I saw all of these processes, these different kinds of conversations, action steps that you need to do all day, every day and repeat the next day and repeat and repeat. and I was just scattered. You know, I still felt kind of new to LA. It was hard for me too because the people that I knew, you know, they rooted for me, you know. So I can never say they didn't root for me. They did root for me, you know, very strongly. However, in the same time, there's this thing when you get licensed that it's because there's so many agents in LA that people like they don't know if they could take you seriously and there was some of that too so i was questioning myself because of like the way people were acting with me or at least i was kind of assuming that this is this is kind of like the way they were being with me like oh hey you know uh oh yeah i don't know if you know or not but you know i'm i'm now selling real estate and people were like, okay. Yeah, like get in line, like you and a million others. And so it was hard for them to accept it. It was hard for me to like determine, like, you know, did some, like how would someone believe in me with this enormous responsibility of helping you buy a place or helping you sell a place. So the main part was structure. It was really structure. And I had committed to, I think it was three years. I was like, we're getting this done. And with that structure came that whole change in mindset and routines. So those are the expectations. You went into it for structure and tell us what transpired. Also, you said three years. So what did you want to – where did you come up with a number three years and what had to happen by three years? Or you're like, oh, I'm going to try coaching for three years. or you're like, hey, I'm going to commit to coaching, I'm going to do what they tell me to do, and if it's not happening in three years, what the three year The not happening wasn an option It wasn an option At that point I was in Yeah And you know up to that point I mean I had sold maybe you know four or five places you know And how many years in the business up until then? So that was – so what happened was the three. Three years. Three, three and a half years. So you're into it three, three and a half years. And what happened, too, was that – And you really sold only four places. Yeah, it was like four or five places. And this is a national podcast, so unfathomable for somebody in Omaha, Nebraska. But you're not doing great, but you're paying a few of your bills if you're selling a house a year. A few bills, not all your bills. How do you remember what kind of price points those first homes were-ish? $900. $900. Okay. It's still a $20,000 plus check for one home, which is a lot more than many other places. It's hard to live on $20,000. Right. But nevertheless, what it does is it also gives you a little bit of, you tell me, still getting a big check like that one time gives you that hope. Or not. I've got to say I was kind of, you know, when I started, the other thing that happened was that the rug got pulled out from underneath us. That's a great point. I mean, in that office, watching the TV screen, silent. That's a great point. And I'm cold calling, and people are leaving Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns. And people on the phone are like, man, get out of here. We're going to crash and burn. The world's over. We're all going to die. And I'm like, but hold on. You got a house to sell, though, right? Let me come over. That's literally what I would be saying. Don't leave yet. Don't put everything on top of the car yet and get out of here. Let me come over. And it was challenging because then the market completely crashed. Right. We had to pivot as an industry to short sales and REOs and foreclosures. And here I am trying to figure out, you know, like, where do I fit? And now I got to, like, learn this whole other skill. Yep. And so I think a couple of my sales were short sales. Okay. daughter born 2009 and then and then the decision to do the coaching shortly thereafter in that same year oh it was like a month okay so okay right i mean with my cast on right i was calling like i was calling coaches okay yeah okay what led you to choose that particular coach and we know tom well yeah you know i i i liked the because i had gone to mike ferry sure on events and i like that And I liked Mike Ferry. I liked Mike too. Very different. Father, son, very different approach. Very different approach. Yeah. It was the way they were kind of going into, because at that time too, when we started using cell phones and social media and online leads. I remember like, if we got a Trulia lead, I was like, oh, we got this Trulia lead. Oh, my God. What are we going to do with it? We're going to have a hot potato. Yeah. And their setup was kind of the old school way. Right. Mike Ferry. Correct. Yeah. Calling, belly to belly, talking to people, mailers, open houses, you know, getting out there. And then Tom Ferry had this technology twist to it as well. A little more innovative. A little more innovative. Yeah. So I like that. And Mary Jett was my coach and she was amazing. I loved her and she really, really put structure. And coming back to Paul's question, at the outset, did you say three years or was that in hindsight? Oh, right. Sorry about that. So what I realized is that selling one or two places a year is unsustainable in Los Angeles. Correct. Unsustainable. So at that point, I made the decision. I was like, all right, well, I got to sell one a month, at least 12 a year. Okay. And I need to double that production in year two. Okay. Then I need to 20, 25% that production in year three. And then at that point, I would have kind of known because I would have a significant amount of data at my fingertips, what I could sustain and what would be comfortable for me at the time still being a single agent. So you had so that was out of the gate. It was like three years. This will give me enough data. Give me enough insight, enough perspective to really determine if this is my long term career. I need to build my database, too. One of the reasons why I stuck on the three year piece, I really wanted to get into that was if you go to a job, you know, you go in in the morning and they give you something to do. You do it till the end of the day. My brother's a doctor. I love to use this example. He's a hospital based doctor. so he and and he gets very well compensated he goes in the morning and and you know maybe it's changed but they had a wire basket okay and the why you know he would come in in the morning it's hospital-based practice so all the doctors would be you know sending all the things down for him to analyze and his wire basket would be loaded and he would get in at seven o'clock in the morning and he would work till about three or four p.m. with some interruptions where doctors would come in or whatever, and he would never get the wire basket down to zero, but he would get it way down there, you know? And then he would leave, and he would go to the gym or have dinner or do, he would do his life, and six o'clock in the morning, rinse and repeat. Wake up, shower, brush his teeth, go in, and the wire basket is up to here, you know? And of course, there are variations where there are crises and, you know, complaints just like any other business. In real estate, your wire basket is not filled. Your things to do are not filled. The other thing, too, is that you get, there's a randomness to it. So that, you know, we know, and you know from your experience, around this table, we know that consistent activity, doing the right things, doing the right things, doing them well, and doing them consistently over time will generate a consistent business. But even within that, it feels inconsistent because, you know, the client that you followed up with, you know, if I gave you a list, you're like, you know, this client, oh, I did a great deal with them. And, you know, they're definitely going to use me next time. And I'm staying in touch with them. and this is, you know, a 98% chance. And then you've got this other person, you met them and, you know, they didn't hit it off that well. And they're like, my cousin's an agent or whatever. You put that at like a 12% chance. And lo and behold, the 98% chance you turn around and like they sold their house without, like what happened, you know? And then the 12% are called. He's like, hey, you know what? My cousin's not ready to do a house of this magnitude. I liked you. Come on over. So there's also this weird randomness to it. So that's what's so vexing for realtors. The other thing that's vexing is that there's so many things to do. That's why I do think that coaching or being part of an environment that will really say to you, do this. These are the priorities because it can get, again, so we always talk about relationships are the foundation, right? How are you prospecting to build new and fortify existing relationships? And you can have the best marketing in the world, know the contracts inside and out. And if you don't have clients, none of that matters, right? And that's not necessarily obvious to those that have not been in the business. So you're also modeling people who have done it before you, right? Don't reinvent the wheel. Emulate people who have done it before you, coaching. And I'll also layer in one other thing, which kudos to you. It's like we often overestimate what we can accomplish in a short period of time, let's say one year. and we underestimate what we can accomplish in three years per year. And because none of this happens overnight, greatness in anything. And certainly real estate takes the ability to be consistent, play the long game, as I always say, with urgency, right? Meaning you're prospecting every day and you've got that rigor. And it's a numbers game per what you just said, Paul. You don't know each little personal relationship. You don't know what's going to happen. You can't control each relationship. But if you have so many relationships, the data and the numbers and the probabilities fall in your favor if you're doing the right actions every day. And I'll say this to you. It's yet another vexing piece. And I want to say this because this is for our audience. And that is Josh and I, each of us have a commitment to fitness. And each of us right now are very fit. And the way that he goes about it is so much different than the way that I go about it. And I've tried his way before. It does not work well for me. It's very inefficient and the results are iffy. It works great for him. He likewise would not want to do what I do. And so in real estate, there are lots of paths that will lead you down to a road that are not a good place. Lots of paths. So these are distractions and bunny trails and problems. And yet there still are, I would say, 10 or more paths that you could take that if you did it on a consistent basis and you found what works for you. Which one of these? Let me tell you the 10 that work. What's going to work for you? What are you really going to do? And you follow that. It actually will work for you. you like almost like a guarantee except that it takes two to three years to generate enough business that it doesn't feel like you know totally inconsistent in happenstance it's like that with really any business i mean how many you know a restaurant and any place that opens up any business gives themselves three years yeah you gotta put money in year one they're probably losing money in year two and if they break even in year three they're the doors stay open you gotta you gotta plant the seeds because there's that lag effect between when the seed gets planted and you continue to cultivate the seeds to when you actually have the seed harvest you know it's gradual and then all of a sudden you know before it felt like you just kind of throwing things out there and seeing if something sticks um not to use a derogatory term no no no i'll tell you what I'll tell you what else is especially vexing for, again, for our audience. And that is, even though what I said is true, and that is, you know, let's sit down. We'll talk about the 10 things that will work. Pick the one thing that you'll be good at and you'll actually do. And three years from now, you're nearly guaranteed success. and the the one of the other vexing things is that successful realtors do not understand that so in other words now you're watching somebody and they're they're just they're operating on their natural you know oh well hey i just go to parties and i connect with people and i get their numbers and they you know i buy their house you know they're like oh well you know geez i'll do that and it doesn't work. So there are a lot of, there are a lot of realtors that are successful that it's, it's hard to figure out what is that model. And, and those are the ones we see. That's what we see on television. That's what we see on Instagram and, and where we believe that it really is a systematized business that makes it happen. Now we have in our own network, we have friends, people we love, people who are great realtors, that just they appear to have no systems and they and they and they just do great. I will tell you inside of doing great, they have more ups and downs than than somebody who is highly systematic. So when did you realize? So then you you OK, so come back to like, did you in three years tell us what what things look like that three years Or along the way. Or what happened with the coach? You go, hey, okay, wow, you know, I think I wrote her name down. You know, you mentioned she's great. I went to Tom Ferry Coaching. They hooked me up with this woman. And she tells me what to do, and I do it, and it works. I mean, what happened? Well, she kept me – she held me accountable, you know. Accountability. The accountability was huge, especially in our biz, because it's so easy to just phone it in every day. So she kept me accountable on every process and step for the day. During that time, like you said, there's like 10 different directions one could go in. She helped me kind of see what my direction could be. And my wife is an educator and she's very tied into the educational community in L.A. and through my wife, I learned about all of the private schools, the public school systems. I noticed at that time, right when I was on the Sunset team, I noticed this. Everybody that bought like that first condo in WeHo, that first house in West Hollywood, awesome. They get married. They have the first kid. First kid, you're still hanging around. They squeeze it. They're hanging on. They're still hanging on. Yeah. Second kid. It's like, yo, what about Studio City, Sherman Oaks and Sino? Yeah. Because all of the best private schools and a lot of the best public schools from Burbank to Calabasas are on that side of town. Yeah. It got me learning about the school system so that I can not directly consult, but at least give some some advice. You know, like if you're living in this place and you want to be in a place that feels like that, maybe this school in this area, you should look at it. You should check it out. And so that kind of helped me with clients a lot, you know, because they didn't, you know, in 2009, 2010, there still wasn't that knowledge of, you know, all of the schools on Mulholland Drive. You know, all of the schools, you know, the Buckleys, the Harbor West Lakes, the Campbell Halls, the Burbank, the Calabasas, the K-12. It was just kind of coming up like this is where you need to be if you really want to give your kids the best educations. Yeah. And so you were kind of leading the charge in terms of knowing, knowing about that. Did you go as far as to say, OK, well, you've got the couple that's in West Hollywood. would they have their first kid they're trying to make it work but maybe they're either thinking about the second kid or the second kid's on the way are you going so far as to say like hey let me tell you how the application process works um i might i would let them talk to my wife for that you know because i i can't consult on that um what i would do is um at that time uh one of the first like analytic software companies came out i think it was smart zip okay and through smart zip i kind of honed in on areas uh where uh where people were having kids and i was just kind of sending pieces to them and you were doing that through like direct mail like okay now okay that was getting call lists okay okay so you were being very intentionally targeted i was trying that okay And then it was also through school, through my wife's school and our daughter. We kind of put our daughter into a – the joke is we dropped her off in a nursery at like six months old so that she could be close to one of us. And that place was very close to my wife's school. So in networking in that community as well. Right. And so you went from also you went from Thomas Guide to Smart Zip, which sounds like it was at least a little predictive analytics. You know, I mean, technology has really has really evolved and now we're seeing it go crazy. So what technology are you using now? Right now, my CRM. I live in my CRM. And what CRM is that? I use our compass, our compass CRM. I live in it. That's the first place I start my day. Making calls, text messages, and emails. Then I also use fellow. I'm familiar. Which is kind of a predictive in a way. It's a good way to kind of keep tabs on databases. When you open your CRM and you say you're making calls and texting, how are you choosing between you know i make a call list the day before oh nice and how many people are on that call list at least 20 how are you how 10 will be 10 will be people i know and 10 will be people i don't know okay where are you getting the 10 that you don't know oh i get them from title okay okay i'm in very handy okay you know for that um and the 20 people you do know are you just taking uh rolling through your sphere and calling the next 10 yeah call past clients sphere people that i know and what are you saying hey it's angelo hey it's angelo what's going on how you been checking in what are you up to i don't i don't say checking in anymore okay i'm just like hey what are you up to you know i'm just talking to you want to see what you're up to see if they have any plans kind of like what i asked you guys in the beginning and you know, if they have any plans and then I kind of get an idea of what they're doing at the beginning time. Plans regarding real estate or just plans? No plans Life plans Life plans Yeah You know I love taking clients to baseball games concerts I took some clients to Rufus Dussault on the other night Nice Theater Going on hikes. I mean, going on hikes is the best time to really connect with people. Yep. And going out to the beach. I ride motorcycles. Wow. I go with a group of people with motorcycles on a motorcycle ride. I read that. Through the canyons. What kind of motorcycle do you have? I have a BMW, an F800GS. Nice. And I go cycling. Fighter jet. Do you ride by my house? I'm at Mulholland and Laurel. Yeah, of course. There you go. Mulholland keeps you in LA. Right. Sexiest motorcycle curves in the city, you know. Look at that, yeah. You've got to watch. They finally put little speed bumps in. I know. Yeah. Well, that's a good thing. Yeah. I think it's good. Yeah. It's a good thing that they have that. We go cycling. I'll go with a group of guys on the weekend. We do the Melbourne Triathlon every year. Great event. You don't know clients are doing it, but then you see them there. Or if you do know clients are doing it, great time to get together, work out together, go on a bike ride, go on a swim, go do yoga. So do you still coach? No, I don't coach. My last coach was Stephen Shule. Okay. That was a couple of years ago. Well, I know well. And he, by the way, is much more Mike Ferry. Yes. Yes. And to make those distinguishing points is that, and by the way, I really believe that all of these methods work. It's just what fits more with your personality. And where you are in the evolution of your career. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, what may be the right fit early on may be something different. I mean, Steve Scholl is like, hey, are you ready to buy or sell? Which is very Mike Ferry. Are you ready to buy or sell right now? And if the answer is no, that's great, because I get to say, hey, great chatting with you next. And you want to you want to move through the people who are, you know, essentially what would be considered by that school of thought time wasters. Right. Right. To get to the people that are ready to transact much more quickly. And that is one way of doing it. The full opposite. I believe that Tom Ferry sits more in the middle. OK. And the full other opposite would be like like a Brian Buffini that, you know, if you say, hey, how many are you know, how many how many how many people do you have in your sphere in your in your database that you would consider your sphere of influence? Probably fifteen hundred. Okay, so if you say that to Mike Ferry, he's like, okay, great, $1,500, that's awesome. So also add $50 a week or whatever because you're really going through them and you want to get to a yes. And if you said $1,500 to Brian Buffini, he'd be like, okay, well, go through, pick out your A's, and here's what that is. Pick out your B's, pick out your C's, and knock that 1,500 down to the 500 most valuable people in your database, which, again, that's too far out on that end of the spectrum for me, too, because I'm not dumping 1,000. If I have 1,500, I'm not dumping 1,000 names because I know there's business that comes from that. I would say Steve Shule, to me, started off like that. I met Steve Shule at 8650 Sunset. Right. I probably brought him in there. And he was like that in the beginning. And he was very kind of like, he was the coach on the sideline. He was the basketball coach or the football coach going up and down the sideline and really pushing you. Now, what I love about Steve is that he's more like a Zen coach now. He moved a little in that direction. And I got to say, to me, it made a big difference because I take things really personally. And if you take things really personally, like to heart, you know, one of the things I said to a new prospect that I was introduced to, she said to me, it was, you know, with the agents that she had before, they didn't seem like they cared. And I said to her, I said, well, let me just explain to you how I operate. When I tell my clients that they didn't get a house or we're having a tough time selling the house, it's like a doctor telling their patient they're not going to make it. And I know that's an extreme example. Yes. But it hurts. Yeah. It does. Sleepover. Yeah. And the one thing Steve taught me was, dude, let it go. Right. You know, you can't control everything. And as real estate agents, we want to control everything. We think we should control everything. I tell our team, our younger team members, the space you have between a phenomenal transaction and a shitty transaction is a trip wire. Yeah. Okay. You trip that wire, it's over. There's no turning back. Yeah. Yeah. You can apologize and say sorry all you want. Yeah. But that's the expectations we have on ourselves. And I get the chills saying it because it's, you know, I talk about this with our colleagues all the time that we're really out there, you know, performing and doing an incredible service to someone. Not only are we finding them home, we're finding the place of their, like, memories. Yep. But talk to all of the families that lost their homes in the fire. What will they say? Our memories are gone. Yep, yep. You know? And it's really a double-edged sword in a lot of ways because, again, someone like yourself who is so passionate about it and takes it so seriously and understands the impact you can have with your clients is what makes you great. And on the other hand, you personalize it, right? So it's often our greatest strength can become our greatest weakness, and it's understanding and having that perspective and self-awareness I think is critical. And another thing you said, which I'm a huge believer in, it's focus on what you can control because there's going to be so many extraneous circumstances and dynamics with your clients, with the market that you have no control over. So the more energy you give it, the more energy you're using ineffectively, right? And I've lost, you know, I've lost weeks perseverating on a lost client or that client to go back to your point that 98%, you're like, oh, it's mine. And then in the 11th hour, it's like, you know, they're not even responding to you. Yeah, yeah. So, and it happens. Yeah. And you just got to, what Steve taught me, and I was in a group coaching with Steve. It wasn't just one-on-one. And he taught us to really to let go. And that was really when I felt like I started enjoying the business. That makes sense. You know, like really, like it became fun now. Yeah. And it's a tough part. You know, it's a tough part. It's a tough kind of it's tough to come to that. What do you say to someone, maybe a potential client, or to the general public that says, look, now the statistics are all the way up to 100% of people use some online tool in their search for real estate. And realtors really are overpaid. Maybe we don't need them at all. But if we do need them, they're overpaid because I'm coming to you. I've really done a lot of research. I've come to you with the four or five houses I really like. Why don't I just go straight to the listing agent? What do you say to someone who says, why do I even need a realtor? We have a very detailed list of processes that I share with them. And I say, if you feel like you could do all of this yourself, go for it. If you feel like you don't need a fiduciary in your corner when it comes to the biggest purchase of your life or of your family's life, go direct to the listing agent. California is probably one of the few states that still allows dual agency, which is surprising. Correct. I got to say, usually in my listing agreements, I say I won't personally represent a buyer as well. We've definitely done a bunch where sellers are okay with it, but I would prefer not to. I would prefer to just have one client's interests in mind and let's make a deal that way. Let's get to a place where we can make a deal. And if I can take you back, maybe I don't have to take you back at all. It could be a question for today, but certainly a question from before. How do you convert someone that knows you? They may even know you. They may even like you and trust you. But how do you move them from I know them, we like each other, to they want me to represent them on a huge transaction? It just happened. And just sold the house up on Mulholland for $10,255. Congratulations. $10,000, $10,000, $10,000. and the house was listed five, six years before I got it through like six agents. Wow. This was a family that I knew very well, and I had been trying to get that listing for nine years. And I would just say, you know, persistence, perseverance. I'm always, I am the squeaky wheel. And what are you going to do? I've said that five times this week. Be the squeaky wheel. to several people. Now, I'm the homeowner and I like you. Now, I chose this other realtor because they do all the business up on Mall Hall and obviously it didn't work out. And then again and again, but what are you going to do? I'm open to listening with you, but I just want to know, what are you going to do different than them? These people who are the best of the best, they couldn't sell my house. So what are you going to do? Whether it's in the foreground or the background. I am always working to get your home sold. In the case of Mulholland, we went in and out of escrow three times over a nine-month period. And I was ferocious and diligent about keeping those backup offers interested. interested. You know, in LA, it's so easy. You lose interest in a second. I say to clients and sellers, this may sound crazy, but we have 10 seconds to make an impression. Online, if somebody calls, if you call back after like 15 seconds, they'll go, oh, what property was that? And it's scary to say that, but that's just the way it is. And I am always, always foreground, background, making, trying to make something happen. And not only trying to make something happen, but keeping you up to date on what I am doing. So your, your speed, your communication, your accessibility, your willingness to engage, I guess, sounds like really what you... And I'm not perfect. Guys, I dropped the ball. I've made my share of mistakes in the past, you know uh 15 16 years that i've been committed right mistakes before that too and and i'm not and i don't say that i'm perfect but when it comes down to it like you know i'm uh i'm i i feel like i'm the guy you want in your corner yeah and that confidence comes through and it comes through with authenticity and people gravitate toward that but again and you know and i and and what you told me was what you did that was such a difference maker. And by the way, I'm sold, so that's good. This is what you really do. And it's really what most other people don't do. But how do you articulate that? So now, and maybe that's how you articulate it. But again, you know, Angelo, you're a good guy. So those particular people, then when they decide to list with you, is there anything specific that you feel like moved the needle there? I fill in the puzzle. You have the list of processes. And I always say in between here, anything like X, Y, and Z can happen. And this is what I'm doing. I'm not like sourcing it out to somebody. I'm doing it. And if we don't succeed, it's on me. If we do succeed, it's on me. So you're like, I'm resourceful. well, I've got a pulse on this process better than anyone else. And that's going to put me in a position to adapt more readily and more quickly and more effectively than someone else who may be not focused like I am. To hold a listing like that for over a year takes, you know, you've got to be showing something. Yeah, yeah. You know, you can't just say, hey, you have like 20,000 views and, you know, we've had this many showings and they're going to renew the listing. Is part of that process, like, are you clear on what your communication is going to look like at the outset to create expectations? Is that part of what distinguishes you? It is. I do, when I can, like, I try to do all of the showings. I love doing showings. Actually, it's probably one of my favorite things to do. Okay. I love doing the open houses because I just like meeting the people and the agents, our colleagues. Like, they're as much in it as I am. You know, we're doing this together. Yeah. I'd like to see and meet the people that are going to be, you know, we're going to either be negotiating with or negotiating for. And it just gives me a lot of fodder. Yeah. And, you know, when we get to that point. What is your what is your team look like now? Give us a sense of what that is. I have a manager of operations, a marketing director, and we have one, two, three, four junior, four agents. And I partner up with a lot of agents in the city that aren't necessarily on my team. And I love partnering with other agents. You know, it just creates a whole nother dynamic. What does the ideal world look like for you three years from now with respect to your business? With respect to my business. Three years from now, I would love to have a team here in West Hollywood. I'm growing a small team in Silicon Valley because my wife and daughter are there now. And I'd love to have a consistent, predictable business in both of these areas. Now you've done a very good job for, let's say, the seller on Mulholland. And I mean, you did what everybody else couldn't do. And let's just say the seller is like, wow, this is, I get it. Now, the seller, I'm going to make this up, is also very busy doing something that earns him a living that would put him in a $10 million house. And, you know, while loving you and paying you a big commission, he doesn't really owe you more than that. What are you doing to get that individual or other individuals to refer you more clients, if anything? I go back to hanging out with them, you know, seeing them. What's going on in their lives? How are the kids? Let's go out to dinner. Let's go to a ball game. Let's hang out, you know. and it really goes down to that and that's kind of I would say my you know we're keeping them updated of course with our you know what's going on in our business as far as newsletters and and and what does that look like so well we send out a newsletter every two weeks okay every two weeks it's about 50,000 people oh wow and and and that newsletter is digital it's digital yes um and And what is that? What do you include in that newsletter? We include things to do in L.A. Being Italian, I love food. So we do a weekly kind of food video, like Best Sandwich Place, pasta. I haven't gotten to sushi and stuff yet, but burgers. I love Smash Burgers. So we include that as well. Do you know Burger She Wrote? I love Burger She Wrote. There you go. Nice, crispy outside. Great smash burger. Have you gone to For the Win? I'll have to try that. But a shout out to Burger She Wrote because that's where we're. Great fries too. Great sweet potato fries. We're in business with a creative director that did their stuff and is part of that. I love it there. I love it too. Right next door is Marvin. Yeah. It's a great place too. Marvin's awesome. So where did you get the list of 50,000? over all of the lists that I've accumulated between, you know, I would say the, the, the areas I work, I call it the magic loop, the magical loop. It's a West Hollywood, Hollywood Hills Beverly Hills Bel Air and Sino Sherman Oaks and Studio city I mean I I I dabble outside of that circle but who does the newsletter for you how much of it is your own content how much are people helping you write or using chat gpt i'm not using chat chat gpt uh zoe zoe my marketing director she's created the newsletter uh she puts all of the uh the information the listings the action So you're putting things to do, some food stuff, and then you're putting your active listings. Sold. Anything else? Anything else? A lot of social media marketing. Social media ads through Compass. Social media ads through Rate My Agent. Social media ads. I mean, my website is a luxury presence website. so a lot of google advertising uh through luxury presence and that's both for socal and norcal oh wow so you're trying to get business from norcal as a referral we have a great listing coming up in norcal okay oh you're gonna actually take the listing in norcal oh yeah okay wow yeah we have a great one so is that started to gain traction i mean it sounds like i've sold a couple places in palo alto okay okay okay and actually the palo alto is your daughter at stanford or No, she's 15 years old. She's a freshman in high school. I was referred by clients here to clients in Palo Alto. And you're willing to take, oh, that's wonderful. What program do you use, if you know, to send out the newsletter? It's like a MailChimp? You know what, that's a good question. I think it's a MailChimp. Okay. It's either a Send Now, Send It, or MailChimp, something like that. And maybe it's just Zoe that monitors it for you, but do you have any idea what your open rate is or unsubscribe? 44% is the open rate. That's strong. That's very strong. It's a really good open rate. Very strong. And the unsubscribe rate, I don't know, but we always get a couple. Yeah, for sure. I have, you know, because we talk to a lot of top agents and we have somebody that we interviewed not that long ago. 50,000, sort of 50,000 strong email list. And her open rate is about half of yours. And she's crushing it because she may send weekly, which might be a little bit too often, but she always has a good headline. And so she has people, she's sort of back, you know, back tested it, not not officially, but you know, she'll bump into somebody that like, Hey, thanks so much for, you know, inviting me to the thing. I just love your newsletter. And she's like, okay, that was Sally Smith and she'll go back and look and Sally didn't open her email. She just saw the headline like, Hey, we're having this thing this weekend. And she's like, Oh, it's awfully nice of her to invite. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm busy next. Didn't, didn't even open it, but it, but it doesn't mean that, that it's not still touching people, but 44% open rate is, uh, is magnificent. You know, your marketing is working when you have a lease listing and you receive a lease application with references and you call one of the references. Who's a proper landlord. Yes. I know what you're going to say. I love it. Oh, we know you. Angelo. Great to finally speak to you. I get your information all the time. You know, I'm really happy to speak to you right now. So when I got out, I was like, oh, my God. It's because a lot of it is ethereal almost. Like you're putting stuff out there. You're not sure. And you're spending at times an absorbent amount of money. And you can't really see that ROI. And when you hear that, it's kind of like, oh, you know, it just gives you a really good feeling. It gives you a good, like, warmth. We've been doing this podcast and I've been, one of the things I focused on was Instagram for, you know, two or three years, making sure that I was really at the top of the food chain in terms of realtors. And I benchmark is what I do. I go like, hey, who doesn't have a television show? Okay. Because that gives you a bit of an unfair advantage. Who doesn't have a television show that is crushing it and is very well known in the real, in the realtor space. And by the way, I picked Tom Ferry, who I now consider a friend. And last time we bumped into him, by the way, he's like, you know, I watch your stuff on social media all the time, you know. And truthfully, I don't engage with it myself because it takes too long. He's like, I know you see all my comments. And I'm like, not really. But, you know, but that was my benchmark. And then like you, you know, I'll go to an air, you know, I'm in an airport in New York or a different city and somebody will come up to be like, hey, you know, I see your stuff online. And it really that that does give you that little that little social proof for sure. What else are you doing on social media? So I love the I love the email. I love the email marketing. We run ads sort of concurrently through different channels for listings, just about the team. And I would say I can't really give a specific ROI on that, but it helps with awareness. It becomes expensive, but it helps with awareness. We just got a sponsor for the podcast, and we don't do it unless, you know, we're not for sale. We've gone without a sponsor for a long time because there are lots of people that we're interested in selling their thing. This whole production gets, you know, it's nice to have a sponsor. And you know what? And we'll keep paying for it rather than go with a sponsor that's not something we really love to do. And so there's a company that we just got involved in called Claim Your Name. And one of the things that it does is it does search engine optimization for people. And they really cut their teeth in a different market because I did find a company. I'm not interested in creating it myself if somebody else is doing it. But I came across a company that will remain nameless in the real estate space that said they were doing a bunch of this stuff, but they really weren't. And so, for example, one of the client testimonials that I just looked at was a great realtor that we're friends with. I won't say who it is. And they looked across the entire – he's been in business a long time. He does a great business and looked all across the web, and there were 103 places where his name, address, and phone number, which are very basic. And that's, by the way, they call it local SEO. Local SEO just means that when people are looking for a realtor in silver, they could be in South Korea. But if they're looking for a realtor in Silver Lake, you want Angelo Fierro to come up, and that's considered local. So every time that there's a broken link or even a name, one time you use your middle name, one time you don't. That alone is enough to create confusion. And this guy is doing great. And we found 103 places in the web that there was, you know, just they use an acronym. It's NAP. It's so basic. It's name, address, phone number, where his name, address, and phone number, you know, it's the so-and-so group, you know, some of the time. Then it's just, you know, so I'll just use your name. It's Angelo Fierro Group. And then other places, it's Angelo Fierro. And if you really talk to somebody who knows the game, they're like, both of those are fine. Okay. Pick one. And then, you know, and then get the bio and you have the same bio in every single place. And then there are all of these directories, you know, that we didn't even sign up for because there's all this web scraping that people want to like at yellowpages.com. You know, this particular guy, I talked to him about it and he's like 103. I don't even think I'm on 103 things. And I'm like, okay, well, here's some examples. I gave him some examples that he knew he was on. I was like, wow, okay. So one time it was the Angelo Fierro. The other time it was Angelo Fierro Group. You really consider that broken? I'm like, pick one. He goes, okay, I get it. But then we look at like yellowpages.com. He's like, I didn't sign up for yellowpages.com. And it's got the wrong address and the wrong whatever. And that in and of itself was pushing itself, was pushing it down. So we are doing a deal in essence just to, because I've done it for myself. I've done it for Josh. We're really testing it out so that we can get a sponsor for the podcast, but also bring to the market something that's really behind the scenes and working. And one thing that realtors love is something that they don't have to do. So number one, they run the whole report for you and they hand you the report. And, you know, the guy I'm referring to, the first thing he called was BS because I said, your thing is wrong in 103 places. It's BS because I'm not on 103 places. I go, here you go. And he was like, you know, half of them he hadn't heard of. So it's just it's one of the ways we're always trying to stay ahead of technology. And that's why I was wondering, you know, what you know, what's working for you. And by the way, it doesn't have to be the most sophisticated thing. We also do the tangible. We do the Hollywood Reporter, the Variety, the Los Angeles Business Journal, the full-page ads. I got to say. And that's pay to play. When something comes from those efforts, one time at an open house, we're always like, how did you hear about the open house? And this one lady pulled out the LA Times ad. I almost started crying. Yeah. Wow. It was exhilarating. I hugged him. I had to hug him. This is amazing. The one in 100. So, again, I think it goes back to getting that one. And that's why we do all of these efforts that I feel like people don't know or don't recognize or don't acknowledge. but you know i know that at least all of our colleagues right you know we're badasses we're out there like really really pounding the pavement oh yeah and and it's just it's just with a with a fervor and a passion that you know to help people sure yes to sell houses of course but it's really to like see our clients like you know be so happy in in the places that they you know that they've purchased or sold happy selling and getting something else that getting that first condo for a kid oh yeah you know i mean yeah you have such an opportunity to make such a parents the grandparents yeah you know uncles aunts cousins i mean they're all you know they show up in a bus yeah one of the things i wanted to just a question that i didn't ask or didn't get an answer to yet is what are the holes in your business that could be filled? Maybe it's by – and when we look at holes in a business, we look at either systems, technology, or people to fill that hole. So what do you see any – Like where are the opportunities that you see to grow your business that maybe are not being fulfilled now? People. I would say more people delegating across you know different you know branches yeah I would say that we always say prioritize automate delegate right I mean that's you know and um I gotta say the prioritize yes but then after the you know the the delegate is I mean I really didn't start delegating until before COVID so it really hasn't been long for me I've been like literally like you know solo and partnering up with other agents yeah and 2018 i think we got our first manager of operations and i've been through a few because it's such a nuanced position yeah you know somebody who who knows the contract who knows the processes who knows the disclosures knows the marketing um and you know can also do all of these things and doesn't want to sell yeah part of that is what percentage if i may ask and this is an interesting question do you do of your total team's business oh i'm you want me to answer that i'm still about uh you know 78 okay i was gonna say 87 i was gonna say we've interviewed a lot of people right now it's about 78 okay yeah and would you like that is that part of that answer is like i wouldn't actually that's a great question um i haven't really sat down and thought about it yeah but lately i've been helping newer agents on our team like get those first two deals yeah and i gotta say it's like it's as exhilarating yes as a lot of fun you know good for you it's not for everyone by the way yeah that's right But I can see in a minute it would be for him. At my office, I mentor about at least seven or eight agencies. I try to commit to less than 10 because it is a lot of work. I mean, only just the NAR statistics, about two or three of them really turn out to be productive agents. But watching one of your mentees do it is great. And watching one of your team members who help you out with so many other things beyond just helping them, walking them through the deal is really – I've been really loving it. I can see that. You love to pour into people, and I can see that. That's awesome. Yep. Let's go fire round. Do it. What we do is we're a fire round. Each one of these questions, you could give a long answer to, and we would mess it up if we – because you're going to say something. We're going to love the comment, but we're going to hold our comments. so we'll just go go straight through it and uh why don't you start what is your greatest fear my daughter being hurt you know the first the first dude that like breaks her heart she's gonna kill me what's the best compliment you've ever gotten little guy little friend what's an insult you've received that you're proud of that i'm obnoxious i've toned that down a lot you know i've definitely toned that down what's an attribute you most admire in others i would say perseverance for me it really always goes down to perseverance what's a talent you'd most like to have no i got a couple uh one would be to be like a a rock star guitarist, you know, I love it. And another one would be to be like a MotoGP racer, you know, something along those lines. What's the most important thing that you aspire to accomplish in your life? Being a good dad, being a, being a good person, you know, and it's, it's strange to hear me say that because like there, there have been like times in my life that would never cross my mind. But, you know, fatherhood does things to you, you know, and through a lot of introspection and meditation. I would say that. I love being a good father, a good husband, a good friend, a good colleague, although sometimes that doesn't work out either. You know, it really comes down to that, you know. I kind of don't put a lot of importance on, like, legacy. and things like that. I just, you know, I think at the end of the day, you know, my dad recently passed away. And that call, when you get that call, it's done. It's over. There's no, you know, I was like, but yeah, but me. And the guy's like, the doctor's like, yeah, but nothing. I mean, he's out. He's gone. You know, so, you know, so I think at the end of the day, it's, you know, just being able to connect with people on a really like cool level and being a good person. Is your daughter your only child? Yes. Okay. Well, we also have a dog, Goose. Sure, not a Goose. We both have one child. Yeah, and Goose is our second, definitely. Yeah, I've got a dog that we're having a lot of fun with. No dog yet, but when mass is ready, the dog will come. I've got to take our dog to the doggy dentist. Oh, that's pricey. But she's going to be put under for that. I'm like, oh, it just makes me anxious. Yeah. So you mentioned you like to hike. Yep. And let's say you do one of these great hikes in L.A. It could be a steep one. You get up a difficult trail, steep grade. You get over. You get up, and you get this panoramic view like we have here. and you look down and you see your family and your friends and your colleagues and the rest of your community and you shout one thing, what do you shout? I love you. Wonderful. Bingo. And he said it very quickly. I love it. Wonderful. Yeah. Thank you so much. What really amazing. We could have got like three, four hours. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Outro Music