#160: How Alex Hormozi Cheats the System // Next Level Pros Podcast

Real quick, before we dive in, I want to give you some context on this episode. This conversation was originally quoted back when I was running my first podcast, The Founder Podcast. It was before Next Level Pros even existed. I sat down with some serious heavy hitters, entrepreneurs, operators, leaders, and we unpacked real tactical stuff that still holds up today. So instead of letting these episodes collect dust, we're bringing them back here on the Next Level Pros channel. You'll notice the branding is a little different. Maybe the style too, but the lessons is still gold. Especially if you're in the trades or home service space and trying to build something we'll be listening to. What's up everybody? We today, we are joined by a good friend of mine, Mr. Alex or Mozie. Alex is in the middle of building a massive empire with acquisition.com. Many of you guys have seen him in his social media, his YouTube, Instagram stories, all the goodness he's never skips dessert. The man is a protein theme, but more importantly a business phenom. So one of the best ways I've ever introduced Alex, if anybody ever asked my opinion on Alex, I say, man, this guy has an Ivy League type knowledge with mixed with street smarts, which is a very rare breed indeed. I think on top of that, I love the fact that he doesn't look like that at all. But that fact that he just doesn't care what anybody thinks, always rocking the tank top, the mixture, he doesn't care what anybody thinks. Welcome to show Mr. Alex. Thanks for having me, man. I appreciate the intro. That was one of the most succinct ones and I'm proud of both sides. So, man, me and you Alex, we go back, I was looking through my text messages. We met about four years ago at a mastermind down in Utah of all places and got to know you and your wife and the thing that always impress me is just how straight forward to the point, I mean, never beat around the bush, you know, very logical. And I love that about your relationship with business, your relationship with people, your relationship with everything. So, dude, obviously you've completely shifted gears in your career, you went and built this amazing business with Jim Launch. Now you're building an acquisition.com, you got a really cool podcast. What is pushing and motivating you right now? I just enjoy playing the game. I think that's like the biggest part of it. And so, like, I write books about business, I make content about business, and when I'm not doing those things, I'm doing business. It's like that's what I think about all day. And probably like you go to a restaurant, you're like, man, how many tables do you think they turn through here? And like, what do you think they get these shrimp at? And then you're like, huh, like I wonder where they're recruiting the staff from. And like, I wonder how they mark it. Like, is how did we hear about this? Do we, was it Yelpat? And how do we hear it? No, somebody told us that. You start reverse engineering stuff. And I remember listening to you, I think it was a little Wayne interview. And he was like, I can't stop rhyming. He was like, I just, I can't stop rhyming. He's like, it's this obsession. And I feel like it's kind of the same thing for me with business in general. I just like it a lot. And it happens to be, happens to have a monetary outcome. But I know I would do it if it didn't make money because I do lots of things that are business related that don't make me money. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's what I want you to talk about. You do a lot of things. Dude, that's sweet. I love, I love your, you know, you bring it up like, Hey, I go into a restaurant and start thinking about things, which by the way, there are some places that have to be cover-ups for the mafia because like, for example, Arby's, dude, Arby's in my, like there is never a car there. And I go there and I'll eat a turkey sandwich because it's like one of the only quick things that I can get that are, you know, somewhat good. Just like, dude, there is no way. There's no way these guys aren't a cover-up for drugs for the mafia because this has got to be a laundry scheme. I definitely have seen some things in like shopping centers. This is not my sense. But yeah, man, I mean, that's what I've been up to primarily. We've been, you know, massively investing in media overall because, you know, the overarching idea, like when I, when I decided to step down from Jim Launch was that, Jim Launch, my opinion was going to eventually become an investment company. So, you know, at a certain, you know, there's 50,000 microgemoners in the US. And so we had already talked to 20,000 when I stepped down. So like, you know, and I found a lot of the advice that, you know, actually, I'll rewind for a second because I'll tell you a story that you may not know this. So when I went to, we had that little meetup. It was like, you mean like six other people at your cabin, right? And so some of my audience, listen, nice like, when I talked about that meetup, it was actually with Chris. And together it was like, the eight of us were doing half a billion year in revenue, which I thought was pretty cool. You know what I mean? If you just added up all the bits, it might even have been higher than that. But it was at least half a billion a year in revenue. And it was interesting from an experience for me because that meeting was actually one of the reasons I decided to sell Jim Launch. And the big takeaway for me, like, even though we talked about lots of stuff, yeah, we talked about lots of, you know, strategies tactics, hiring people, scaling, blah, blah, that kind of jazz. But the biggest takeaway I had was I looked at everybody in the room who was doing more revenue than I was. And, you know, I was like, okay, is it their skill set that I'm lacking? Like, what am I missing, right? And the biggest thing that I saw as my takeaway was, I was just in a pond. And everyone else was going after an ocean. And so I just needed to, like, I mean, VC guys know this because they look at, you know, tech companies are going to invest in the first question they ask is what's tam, you know, what's total trust for market? And I'd never asked that question because when I come into the business game, it was like niche, niche, niche, niche, niche. And I do think that's 100% the right advice when you're starting out. But at some point you have to expand. And so I had two directions I could have expanded in. So one is like, I continue to expand more broadly in fitness. So I go after health clubs, which is exactly what Jim Launch is doing now is they're going after big, you know, bigger, you know, big change gyms, what I call like facility leasing gyms. It's like lots of equipment, lots of treadmills, like I think we were all service-based facilities. Or we could go down market, go after like personal trainers and fitness enthusiasts. And so like there's like kind of the directions there. But at that point, I've been in fitness for a decade. And I think, you know, if I hadn't sold, then I could have continued to go down that path. But I didn't want to be known as the fitness guy. Like I already had felt kind of tired of being known as the gym guy. And you can make an argument that that would have been a better move because I've known the space. And you just get deeper and deeper knowledge in that becomes your competitive advantage. But in September of 19, I started making general business content and I stopped making content about gyms. And so it was actually almost at that time that things started growing for me. And so like my podcast, I went from talking about only gyms to talking about business. And then it started growing, even though I'd been doing it for like two or three years at that point. And then I think a year later after that, I started making my first YouTube videos. And so those were kind of like the first things that I started doing from a general business perspective because the general business market's a lot bigger than the gym market. And I wanted something that would never stop compounding. That was one of the big lessons that I had from gym lunch. And I've talked to a lot of business owners that have not like the perfect vehicle when they start their first business because they didn't think about it. I just thought I was just trying to not be broke. But like playing it out and thinking like what's the, like you have to have one or multiple compounding mechanisms within the business in order for it to be able to reach like, you know, I mean, reach without force. Right? Like could I, could I, you know, get to a thousand goal callers? Like sure I could, but like, could I take that same effort and allocate it somewhere else and get a higher return? And so that's ultimately why we started doing all the content stuff. I saw that media has a huge compounding effect, like your audience itself compounds. So it's like 10% more people find out about me every month. And like when you have 10 people, you go to 11, but when you have 10 million, you go to 11 million. And it just takes time. And so that was kind of that. Right. That was one of the big reasons. Super, super cool. So dude, for, for my audience that may not know your, your whole story, let's, let's rewind. I know, I know there was like a big factor like you went to the Ivy League school. You were planning on following in in the foot steps of your father as far as being a professional, right? I know your dad was in the medical field, but you were going to go. I think you worked for like a government contractor or whatnot. And like walk us through kind of some of those defining moments that got you to launching the gym and then ultimately becoming a business. Yeah, go ahead. Yes, I was going to say guru, but I'm like, you know, don't like the word, but yes, I, you know, I graduated three years from Vanderbilt, because I just did extra credits and did summer work and whatnot. So I could get ahead. And then, and then I got a consulting job at a boutique strategy firm that did defense contracting to the space cyber intelligence, or at least those projects that I worked on. It looked really good on paper. It sounded great at coxote parties, but I really did not enjoy the work. And you know, being where I'm at now, I would look back and probably just tell myself like, maybe you just need to switch companies like you know, to mean like, it's not that I didn't necessarily enjoy the work. I could just walk the three people I saw all the time, or maybe like, you know, there's a lot of other variables, but I extrapolated that to like, I don't want this to be my life, which was true. And I saw the partner of the firm was even with their life looked like, and I was like, that's what 20 years from now looks like, or three years from now looks like, I don't want that life. And so I was pretty, I was pretty depressed at that point. Just just sad that like life was working out the way I thought it was going to, even though I had done all the things that I thought I was supposed to do. And so I I started thinking, what do I actually like? And I knew I wanted to start a business. And so I started applying to business schools. And the first question on the Harvard or either booth or whatever one of the schools was, how will a you know, booth MBA help you along in short term goals? And it's like a standard question. It's not like, I mean, it's not a complicated question. But I ended up staring at like three days Yeah, and staring at three days and being like, I don't know if this is going to help my short term goals where I was at right then, right? It's two years out. I was two years out of college, you know what I mean? So I was 20, not even, I think I was 22 when I was thinking about applying because I just wanted to change. But I thought about it for a few days and was like, you know what I think, I think rather than foregoing two years of income and incurring 120,000 dollars, you know, in debt, to do this, I could take the 50 grand I have saved up and started business and like learn, you know, that amount and median income coming out of business school at the time was 120 grand. So I was like, I just got to get to 10 grand a month from my own savings with a business to then like kind of a week to two. And so, you know, I was like, right, if I have no kids, I have no wife, like if I'm afraid to take a risk now, like, I'll never be able to take a risk later. And transparently, I still think the hardest decision I've ever made was pretty much today, like for sure, I was 22 when I quit. So 22 years old, didn't want to just plug in that. Yeah, I mean, you got through school pretty quick. I mean, so you're 22, you're considering going to get in your MBA or whatnot. And that's that's when you, and you said that that's the hardest decision, like, talk us through that like, why was it the hardest decision? Well, for me, it was just I didn't want to disappoint my dad. You know, it was interesting because like the happiest time my father's life was the saddest of mine. You know, I mean, like, I had done everything that he had told me to do up to that point. And I was living 100% of life that he wanted me to live rather than the life that I wanted to live. And so I mean, in for anybody who has like a parent or an uncle or a brother or whatever it is that you're trying to live up to, I mean, it was tough because like, you know, I was one of the approval of my dad and it was like the closest time that I ever had to like having it. And he was pumped, you know, we'd go out to get lunch like two days or three days a week. So I moved close enough to home that that we could do that. And so he was like, he got to, you know, brag about me to his friends. And that was like, that was it for him, you know, and every time I talk about opening a business, he was like, yeah, yeah, like, do this and go to business school and then, you know, whatever. And I was like, because he's always four formal education. So he was like, yeah, business school, that makes sense. Like go do that. But every time I bring it out, you keep like, you know, like, yeah, like come over, we'll talk about it. Let's talk about it once. And so it's just like months and months and months of like kind of always having that kind of move away. And then when I decided to quit, it took me six months from what I thought I wanted to quit when I actually quit. And it was like six months of like really tough every day, like pacing, like you know, I mean, like I lived alone just like calling everybody I knew, probably to the point where everybody I knew was sick of hearing me, like talk about this debate over and over again. And finally, just made just a few in our rating. Yeah, exactly. And finally, I just figured there's two, there's not a little micro almost. One of them was like, I was reading all these self-help books at that time. So I was reading like, you know, a few books a week, because I was like trying to like, you know, invest in myself. And I realized after like my 20th self-help book that like, my life was the same. And some of the books said things that contradicted one another. You know, I mean, some of them were like, manifest everything other ones are like, no, manifest anything. And I was like, right, and so, sorry, like, that's you can say, yeah. And so finally, it was actually like downside, yeah, just like downside decision making, which is like what would it end up driving it for me, just saying like, okay, worst case scenario is I lose all the money that I've saved up. And my business fails. And then I can go to business school with like a real world experience and I can write a essay. So that was like, it sounds so simple now, but like that being my worst case ended up being the thing that I decided to like, lean a lot on. And so I still knew my dad was going to be game for it. So I, I basically left without telling anyone. And I called my dad when I was halfway across the country, because I drove to California. And I called him out, but I was like, hey, you know, we'll let you know, I'm going to start that business. And he was like, all right, we'll come over. We can talk about it. And I'd already had, you know, I'd already knew that you would just talk me off the ledge again. And so I was like, no, I can't. It's like, why? I'm I'm in Ohio right now. I'm just like, and then, and then obviously at that point, you know, it was very upset. And I said, why are you so extreme? You know, like, you're never balanced, like, you need to be more balanced all over. And then and the thing is, a lot of people will hear that story and be like, oh, well, it's cool. Your dad's probably happy with you now, but like, we were a cool for a while, like a long, not like months, but like years. You know, we stayed in touch. Like, I'm a son. I was alive. You know, I shoot the occasional text, like two, three minute call, like, once a month or something. But what did? Yeah. So I looked at three different businesses that thought about starting a frozen year of your stamp. A test prep, because I was good at taking standardized tests. And I mean, because I go from like a six already, I think, on the GMAT one, I took it the first time to a seven 30 or 740, which was like 20 points higher than Harvard Smith's part at the time, to get it. Actually, so you just did your so like, yeah, so you're probably familiar with this. I got a some there's some for you on it. And all I did to prep for it was I bought every GMAT book at Barnes and Noble, in like the test prep section. They're all like these phone book thick things, because I found this research study that said, there's this line on a chart that said, the more problems you do, the better your scores. Like it was just straight up, just like problems score. And so I was like, great, I can like input out of output equations for like success. Like I can do that. So I did four hours a day of problems for 16 weeks. And that's what got my, that's what got my score about Harvard's and score. And so I was like, okay, I could I could teach people how to do that. So anyways, I couldn't afford the yogurt thing, because I want to call it up like franchises and stuff. They were like it's 250 grand. I was like, I'm not. And so then he was just test prep and gyms, because I was into fitness already. So it's like, I kind of have a little bit of manage there. And then I was going to do a test prep thing. And then I prepped all this stuff and I gave it to somebody who's going to be my partner and they ended up taking it just doing it on their own. And so I kind of had like a bad taste in my mouth from that. So I was like, I guess I'm going to do fitness. And I had this lady at the gym that I was working out at asked me to meter for a lunch, like a month, like a much older. And I was like, it was a weird. So anyways, I met her for lunch because she wanted to ask me about nutrition. So I was like, sure. And so I talked her for an hour about like what she could be with her food or whatever. And then she had to be a check for a hundred bucks. And I didn't like, I didn't, you know, I was an in business. But the idea that she was lady just gave me a check for a hundred dollars for like sitting down with her. I was like, well, like I could make money. And so there was a lot of like little things that happened. And then when I finally decided to leave was because I reached out to 40 different gym owners who looked like they were doing okay. And I said, like, can I just work for you for free? And no one got back to me except for one guy. And he said, yeah, you can work for me for free. And so I drove across the country to his gym. And I like showed up at the front door. And he was like, I was like, Hey, I'm here. And he was like, I'm doing it right now. Like what? Yeah, like he was like, it was like, where are you staying? And I was like, I don't know yet. He's you mean you literally like drove directly to my gym. I was like, yeah, like I was like, I didn't help you know what I mean? And so he was like, he's like, you can stay in my place tonight. But like you need to find some place. I was like, I figured out. And so the next morning, he like what like stand up stood on a box and was like, Hey, does anybody have an extra bedroom for this kid? And he's like, morning at me like in the thing about a little gym. And this dude came up to me. And I like worked out with that gym owner. He had like a crew of three or four guys that he trained with in the morning at like 4 a.m. And so one of the guys I'd worked out with was like, you can stay one of my spare bedrooms. And so, you know, I paid a few hundred bucks a month and rent for one of these guys bedroom. You wanted to get in shape. He was like, Hey, just make sure I don't eat like crap. And I was like, Okay, I could do that. And that's that was that was how I how I got my, you know, got my foot into fitness. And as a as a fun side note for the audience, like, like I was I was working on a white collar job, you know, on pace to be able to make, you know, a hundred grand plus. And then, you know, obviously, two years after business school, you know, they scale up from there. And I went all the way back to basically being a trainer, which doesn't even require college education. Or the experience I had for I think it was like, I don't know, 12 bucks an hour or something like that. I don't even know what I was getting and so like, a lot of times, I think you have to take some steps back if you want to if you want to start something new. I do it. I think I think that's such a key principle that a lot of people don't quite understand is like the value of experience and education in in doing what you want to go and build is worth so much more than the short term dollars that you're going to get paid. And so the like, I love the idea of like going and working for somebody for free, especially if that somebody is like an incredible mentor that can really catapult your career, right? And there's not a there's not a successful entrepreneur in the world that would turn down a hungry guy or girl that's like, Hey, let me come learn and work for you for free and just just mentor and I'll do whatever you say, right? Like, I mean, everybody's going to take a piece of that. And, you know, I actually want to give some caveos in this. So I think you'll you'll agree with me because I've given this advice a lot. And I had my training partner, I was talking about a kid who came up to me and was like, Hey, can I work for free? And probably, you know, with your your step station and status that you're getting right now, you'll you'll probably already do. But like I have, you know, I probably get 50 a day people saying like, can I work for free for you or do something for free for you? And so two or three big caveats around this. Number one is that I recommend that if you're going to try and do this approach, you want to go to somebody who's one or two steps ahead of you. Like, you're not like Elon Musk, if you're like, Hey, Elon, can I get your coffee for you? Like, Elon doesn't need you to get this coffee. Like, it's not like he's going to sit down with you every morning, give you a one hour coaching call because you gave him his coffee. Like people don't think about this, right? And there's this, there's this issue that I see amongst four people that think that their time has worked something. And it's not there's no shortage of low skilled labor, right? And so they have this idea that if I'm willing to do $30,000 year work for you, you now owe me all of your time, because I'm giving you my time. So my minutes are the same as your minutes, but they're clearly not because you're pursuing me and I'm not pursuing you, right? And so caveat number one is like, you want to go to somebody who's supplied a man of free labor is in your favor. So somebody who's one or two steps ahead of you, they probably don't have a lot of people saying they want to work for free. Right now, that person might not have all the skills that you love must have, but they got more skills than you, right? And so it's like, okay, so number one is go after people who are just a couple steps ahead. Number two is you want to make them an offer that's so good that they feel stupid saying no, because like I don't want people to get this twisted like you were getting the better into the deal, right? Like if someone starts working with Chris and just shadows, you everyday, right? Or shadows me every day, like let's not pretend here, like my life is not better off because you're abandoning your life as you be significantly better because I'm just like, I don't want to sugar go like let's be real for a second, right? And so in order to do that, like you have to provide value. And so one of the things that I see and I get this in my DMs all the time, which is like, hey, I'd like to do this in exchange for working, you know, alongside you. And I'm like, no, first off, like the whole principle of giving first is in an offer to give first, it is giving first period without expectation of something back. So it's like, what is Chris need? Well, Chris probably wants somebody to edit and cut his podcast or take his podcast clips and redistribute that. You don't offer to do that. You just do it and then send it to him. And then you keep doing it and keep sending it to him. And I'll bet you that if you do that for 10, 50, 100 days straight, Chris will be like, well, damn, this kid is like really, really hungry. Like he's willing to continue. He took the initiative, figured out what I wanted, etc. All because the alternative of that, right, is that you come up and you say, Chris, I want to work for you for free. And he says, what's the next thing he's going to say? He's going to be like, what can you do? Right? And now, what do you, what do you ask him, Chris, to do? You're asking Chris to work for you? Because we don't have to figure out what you're good at. And we have to think all this like, I'm doing all this work for you, right? Instead, it's like, you have to show the initiative, you have to have some skill, you have to demonstrate that you have the skill, and that you can identify a need for another person, like it's basic level, but that that basic level is a hurdle that most people will jump out. So I'm just like, I'm a little little little on this because I just happened. Yes. That is the best explanation. Oh, dude, I freaking love that. That is probably the best explanation I've ever, ever been given with like the two caveats, like because yes, I've always believed the principle of like, hey, add value and whatever. But man, those freaking two caveats are 100% true. Because yeah, if I have somebody coming to your exact point, I have guys in my DMs or whatnot, all the time, but the people that actually create the value and give it to me, you cannot deny that, right? Just can't deny. So it's absolutely phenomenal. That's great. And one of the cost that they don't quantify is how you were going. Yeah, one of the cost that I'm qualified is how much your time has worked, right? So let's say right now market rate, like any, you know, any CEO wants a big exit, says, hey, Chris, I'll be 25,000 an hour to like have your time, right? And so for you, it's like an hour of my time market rate is 25, 35 grand, whatever it is, right? And if the work that this person is doing for a whole year is $35,000 worth of work, if you asked me, or you need an hour a week of my time, right? I have to think about the opportunity cost of what my time is worth. And so like, you're actually, like you have to make sure that the value you're providing is in excess of the time it's costing me. And the higher up the person is, the less of their time, you're going to be able to take not only because like, it's really valuable, but like it's going to be a cost that you're never going to be well overcome. If you spend an hour of my time, it's like, you got to be able to make a million a year. And that's just at cost. That's breaking. Like, I would like to get a return on my time, right? So you got to be able to make 10 million a year for me to give you an hour week of my time. I'm not going to, like, I'm not being a dick here. I'm just saying like, that's just the man. Right? And so the real real is the higher up. Yeah, the higher up the person is that you're trying to go after, you might have to do what we just said for somebody who works for Chris. So for one of Chris's leaders, and then you've proved that person that you're worth it. And then you get a seat, and then you have, then you get two or three steps closer. And that's the idea is you keep trading up so that you can get closer to the person. Like, I can't reach out to Elon Musk and say, I'll work for you for free because he wouldn't care. Like, why is he going to care for you? He'd be like, Alex, who? Alex who? No, I don't want him. Right? Yeah. That's such good, good, good. I freaking love it. Oh, man. So dude, I love, I love how your stuff is just so black and white, right? Like one plus one equals two, or we ain't doing it, right? Like it's just there's no, there's no being around the bush. It makes it work. So it so how how does somebody, how does somebody get to Alex or Mozie, right? Like, like, who, what value are you lacking that if like somebody offered? Holy crap, man, I would give that guy an hour of my time. Alright, two easy ways that you can identify what somebody ahead of you might want that you could offer them for free, right? So number one is look at what they're currently doing and think is there a way that I can do more of what they're doing or can I help them do it better? Now, I wouldn't say, Hey, I think your stuff sucks. I can help you do it better. You know, the people who say that about my social media, like in my DMs are like, Hey, I think you're really missing the mark here on this. They say from an account that has 500 followers to my million person account. And I'm like, really though, like, do you think that's the angle you're going to try and take, like, probably not the best strategy, right? And so it's like, you want to see what I'm currently doing, doing more to like, Hey, you, like, you might need more clips of you, right? So I can help do that. And instead of saying it, you do it first, right? You don't say I can do more, let's just do it. Or you say, I think we can do them better, because there's some trends that you're missing out on. Again, do it and show it, right? Show it on top. So that's number one is looking with the currently doing and can they do more or they can they do a better? The second thing is looking at what they're not doing, but you think they should do it. All right? So for example, I don't have, I don't really email my list at all. Like we have 1000 people every day that join email us at accusers.com. And it's because I do want to make sure that anything I provide is exceptionally valuable. And I haven't had time to do it. So like, I've sent like two emails for the last year. And so like, somebody who could help take my words from other places and then craft them in the emails that are valuable would be something that would be great for me. They might notice that I'm not on Pinterest, right? Like I'm not on Pinterest because I don't understand the platform. And so like, if you understand Pinterest and you want like then start making Pinterest post for me, like talk about easy opportunities, go somewhere I'm not and help me to like take the stuff already got and repurpose it. Like how much time is that for me? Zero. How much values if you mean more than zero? Right? Because I'm not doing anything there, right? And so it's more better with the currently doing and then looking at other places that we can add new into the cart mix without them having any cost, right? So I'm incurring the cost of sifting sorting, understanding the platform and posting it on Alex's behalf. Now I'm using this as an example, but the person might be going after might not be an influence or whatever. Like they might have other needs. I'm just giving you like simple examples of someone can think through of like, okay, how do I make an offer for Alex? What are yours? So what do you prefer? Perfect. Dude, man, like, yeah, so so so right now, man, to your exact point, like, like, I'm not phenomenal at YouTube, right? Like I'm just just getting going, just getting going on YouTube, really starting to understand that platform. It's a platform that I've avoided for for so long, right? Instagram Facebook, known that for a while, known how to do the marketing or whatnot. But yeah, Pinterest, I mean, a lot of things that you're saying email, I mean, dude, me, me and you operate a lot very very similar, right? I don't email a list. I don't post on Pinterest. I don't, you know, all these, all these things really starting to to get into, you know, and for me, it's like, if somebody could come and help me figure out how to, you know, better, better leverage my time in a lot of ways as far as like identifying deals, like bringing me deals to the table, right? Because because I'm in a similar position as you where I'm in deal mode, right? Like looking and evaluating or whatnot, if somebody went and actually sifted through a deal and said, Chris, this is the reason, like, hey, not only am I bringing you a deal, but I did all the due diligence of the research. And here it is, right? Like, and you cut out a lot of the my time, my, my effort or whatnot, and would actually physically bring it to me. I mean, that that right there, you know, whenever, but whenever somebody like shows up and does something that is of high value, like it's, it's really hard to turn that person down, especially if, like you said, they are one to two steps behind you, right? If it's some, some employee that's never done a deal that's never done it, whatever and they're trying to bring a deal for me, no way. But if somebody's got a track record and it's like, hey, you know, I've done a thousand transactions over the last three years, and I've done transactions with Alex, I've done transactions with, you know, this, that and the other person. And this is why you're going to want, you're going to look at what I have to offer or what I'm bringing you, the value I'm creating, like, I'm paying attention, right? And so, yeah, man, like there's there are so many, so many different ways. And people just aren't creative enough, right? Like it's, they just go and they do the stupid DMs that they copy and paste across a hundred different influencers platforms. And they expect results, which, you know, you got to applaud the hustle, but it's like, dude, just, just think for them and think like, what this, if I was sitting in your shoes, would this appeal to me? And, you know, and so it's interesting. Dude, so acquisition.com, obviously a big shift from from Jim launch, like what are, I love your play right now is like just create value value value value value value and basically have the natural, like people reach out into where you just have your, your picking. What are you, what are you focusing on with acquisition.com as far as like, if you had the ideal company to invest in, what would that look like? So an ideal company to invest in, you know, for us is going to be doing, you know, two to 10 million dollars in EBITDA, they're going to have a founder that wants to wants to scale. It's a big one. A lot of times people think they want to scale, but then like, they don't actually want to scale, you know, I mean, like they double or triple their income and then they're like, Oh, wow, I'm good. Like we had a company that we triple the profit for. And then all of a sudden, like the CEO is golfing every day. And I was like, bro, what's happening? Like, dude, I'm making more money than maybe my entire life. I'm like, yeah, but like, I'm not in this for this triple. I'm in this for a 20 X or 50 X. Like that's why I want to do this, right? Like we want to do big stuff. And so it's like they have to have big eyes. They have to have big dreams of what they want to accomplish. They have to be coachable. And that's a big one. Because and this is actually probably one of the hardest ones to find is that anyone who's achieved a certain level of success has some level confidence that they're good. Right. But the problem is like, if you've never, you know, the difference between and you can appreciate this, there's been a million a month and 10 million a month is oceans. I mean, it's in there like, I'll just do 10 times of what I'm currently paying. It's not because of what that you wouldn't be stuck right now. And so they they they have to like is there's really two aspects to this. So like I'll rewind. There's the business component and there's the founder, right? Like who we're doing the deal with now for us, the founder matters a lot more than to like a traditional private account. And because traditional private equity firms exclusive almost exclusively by majority, we sometimes might majority, but if we buy majority, it's like a micro intro, like you know, we're like 51, you know what I mean? And that might be because we have some sort of grand element that we're tying into it. I remember whatever reason, right? Like of all the holdings, we only have one majority, we will probably do more because that one's doing really, really well. But most of our deals are like, you know, 33 49 50, well, you know, I mean, that's kind of the range that we use. We have a couple early deals added at 20. But there's the founder in the business, the founder is coachable, they are have big dreams. We like actually hanging out of them because this is like, if I don't look forward to talking to somebody like to me, that's a big red flag. Like if during the process, like any of us have any hesitations, like we have it, we have this thing called the five flags, which is like if any of these five red flags come up, we stop the deal immediately. So we don't need like three strikes, we just need one, right? And so we just try to codify. I was looking at any things, right? Like if there's any kind of dishonesty or any discrepancy between numbers, if we feel like they have like a culture of like fear within their organization, those are all like signs for us that were like, okay, this is probably not a good fit. On the business side, it's the more traditional stuff. Like it needs to be of a certain size, which for all of these. Yeah. So yeah, the business side is like, I want to dive. I want to go for it. Yeah. Sorry. We relax. Sorry. I think there's a little lag here, but I want to, I want to, you're good. You're good. So I want to dive a little bit deeper in because you said you want to have somebody that has big goals, not someone when they triple, they're going to go be on the golf course. So obviously, that can't be motivated by money because both you and I know that like money is essentially oxygen, right? Like once you have enough, it no longer motivates or pushes or whatnot. So like, how do you identify the person that really is able to be driven past money, past accomplishment, past, you know, a certain level of achievement? How are you identifying that person? So it's usually in the language patterns that they'll present with. And so I'll give you a couple of different examples that are different, but still would accomplish the same thing. So some of them might be like, I really want to create an amazing place to work. Right? That would be one where like, that's going to continue to grow. Like they might want to continue to get more and more people in and create an amazing place to work. If they said, I want to change this industry. It's like, if you want to change an industry, it's going to like, you have to have a big vision for it. If you want to change your community, same thing. Like if you want to change the local area, like again, big, big impact. Some of them, it's like, I just want to do something big. Like their desire is to see what they're capable of. Like they want to test their own metal. And so the whole point of the game for them is to continue to move the bar. Right? That would be another example. And some of them just straight up say, like, I do want to make a ton of money. And to me, that's fine. As long as that's true. Right? Like, you know, they're like, I want to get to a billion dollar company. That's bad ass. Like, that's fine. I totally respect that. But it's that they actually want that. And they already have all their personal needs to fill. Like if they already have their monetary needs to fill it, and they still say that to me, I'm like, okay, this guy wants to run. Yeah. So what are the, what are the red, so those are like the positive flags? What are the red flags that that you see of like somebody that will be satisfied? Usually they just talk in small numbers. They talk in small number. And this is from the business perspective. The majority of our flags are actually about the founder. So like the red flags for the business are, you know, just like, okay, it's going down. If it's not profitable, if we don't see a path or growth, if it feels too complicated, if the if the founder has like shiny objects syndrome, so like they can't focus on one thing, they're like, oh, yeah, I've got this other business I want to start. This actually happens all the time. Somebody comes to us, they're like, I've got this business I want to partner with you on. I've got these other three businesses to it. I'm like, close all those and I'll work with you on this. And so it's like, and sometimes guys will do that. And then they come back. I'm like, this guy's in it. Other guys are like, I can't do that because of X, Y, and Z. And I'm like, cool. Then go chase, chase five rabbits and hope you catch one. You know, and so like, are they focused? Are they coachable? Are they honest? And all honesty is like, you know, a lot of people think about it in terms of like black and white like honest or dishonest, but it's really like how honest are you? Like if I hear a lot of exaggeration at all points in time, like everything just seems to be rounded. You know what I mean? Like, oh, we're amazing. Everything's, like, if you don't know where the bodies are buried, you're not close enough. Like you should know where the bodies are buried in every single department. And that's actually what I might limit test as a CEO, not that I am anymore, but when I was CEO, if I don't know what's going wrong in every department, I'm too far away. Like I should know, like if something's just good, it means I don't, I don't know what's going on. Because of course, there should always be opportunities for a burden. So I got to know what's happening. So if I hear that kind of language, those are red flags. And then just the big one up just they, they seem, they talk in small numbers in terms of growth and they talk in small numbers in terms of the ultimate size that they would have brought the thing. And because like, I can't, I can't make you believe more than you do. Right. Right. You know, you bring up, you bring up a great point of not only knowing where the bodies are buried in different departments, but being willing to admit where the bodies are buried. Right. I think I think there's, there's an aspect of business owners where they want to lie to themselves, whether, whether you're in sales, whether you actually own the business, whatever, your managing a department, right. Like one of the most important things in order to enact change in order to improve and it is actually being able to admit where we care, we suck at this, this, that and the other, like getting real, right, you know, non-self deceived, right. Self deception, I think is like the greatest downfall of any CEO, any manager, any salesperson, right. Like I'm sure you agree with me on that. So if they, if they're, they're, micro control, tell me, they're like microcontrollers, right. Like they, they want to micro-manage everything. Like that's another example of like the, because the equal opposite, right. There's the pendulum. Like on one side, they're too far away. They're too disconnected. The other one is they're too close to everything. And I want to make a point that I think it is worth making. But they also have to have realistic expectations of value and they have to be willing to have a smaller slice of the bigger pie. Like a lot of people think they want that until they're like, what, they want to have the round shape of the pie, right. And I know you probably can, can, can preach to this more than anyone that like the more people who are trying to build something, the bigger it can get, right. Like you didn't have a hundred percent circle of your circle. And guess what? You on musk has 20% of Tesla, right. But that's still made sense. It made sense for him to give 80% to other people to help him build it. And he can still become the wealthiest man, you know, on the planet. And so like having to shift that belief in someone is really hard. I, if someone doesn't already come in believing it, like I'm willing to part with the chunk of the business in order to have a 10 times or a hundred times more valuable thing, right. Like if they don't believe that. And then part of it is also unrealistic expectations of valuation. This is actually pretty big. So they hear about your exit, right. They hear about my exit. And they think, oh, that multiple applies to my $2 million profit, you know, company that is basically me with a couple of helpers running around. And if I die tomorrow, the whole thing dies. Like no, like it doesn't apply to that, right. Because and here's a stat that might astound your audience for businesses doing less than 10 million in sales and 2 million in bottom. All right. So those are the two numbers. Top line and 2 million bottom line. The average, like the median trading value is 2 and a half x on profit. That's the median. All right. So like that's that's the middle, right. And and over 80% depending on the source. So this is SBA. So small business administrations, one of that would be stats. Have a have a huge component of seller financing. And so that 2 and a half x is also not cash. Like that 2 and a half x is the total enterprise value. And the person who's like, so like let's say you did a hypothetical deal with somebody doing $1 million a year. Okay. So one in profit. All right. So $1 million a year in 12 months. And let's say they got the median valuation. So the person who's buying is adding no value. They're just buying the asset. They're coming in to do nothing. Right. Because that's who is buying this. Right. If you and I might want to buy something, I would expect to get a discount on something because I'm going to be doing a little work to grow the thing. Right. I don't want to pay you to work. Right. So the idea is like, okay, let's think through this. Million dollars. 2 and a half x is the is the median. And let's say 90% of them have seller carry. Okay. Well, if you're selling half the business, then now we're at 1.25 and let's say and you have a seller carry point. So you might only get a few hundred thousand dollars for half the business. Now, again, the part of it is that people then in that situation, and this is where deals don't happen, is that they're like, I'm worth at least 10. It's like, you're not. Like you're not. Because you can't walk away. Like you could walk away from business. And it still grows. Like Jim launch continues to grow. And Alex is on a podcast with Chris right now. The idea is that you have to build an asset that can grow on its own. And that takes time. And the thing is is that people really impatient or they feel like they're getting, I mean, to be fair, that's the nature of deals is that both people have to agree. But like that's that's a big one. Is that a lot of founders will have holistic expectations of how valuable the company that builds is because they're measuring it based on the effort they put in rather than the output of what's been created. Right. Yeah, it's so interesting how many people are self deceived on the actual total enterprise value. I had a guy give me an offer the other day for he's got an Instagram profile with a ton of followers and he's and he's and he's probably he's netting like 350 a year and everything like that. And he wanted is there's something like five or six multiples on a social media platform like a social media account that is dependent on him as the face. And it's just like dude, what in what world does this worth five to six multiples? You're crazy. Like you get out of here, man. And it's so it's so amazing like how how self deceived people are. Dude, I want to I want to dive into to one other thing that you kind of mentioned and I know that your phenomenal is like walk me through how you get to know, right? How do you how do you tell yourself know, right? And get away from like the shiny objects and how do you keep digging in the same hole that is boring or whatnot? Like what are the mental exercises for you as an entrepreneur that keep you disciplined to continue to say no and only say to the one yes to the one thing that is giving you the most value? It's a really good question. And I think that this is probably like if there's a single trade of entrepreneurs that can make them successful with it is if they can master this and it's also probably the hardest one to master because we're the we're the best people at deceiving ourselves when it comes to this like we convince ourselves that this new opportunity is going to be worth more. And there's a lot of natural you know follow questions like well when do you know when to pivot like when you know you've tried enough like when you need to change your idea and things like that? I would say that post product market fit. All right so this is a big caveat and this is why advice gets hard because it depends on the season right. If you don't have product market meeting people don't want to buy your thing right or they don't like to think yourself then yeah you should iterate. You should keep trying keep trying new things until eventually you start getting buyers. At that point you lock it and then you say if I only did this thing for the next 10 years would I get this outcome? And if that outcome is a yes then anything that's not that like you already have to deal with yourself that you're willing to get that big outcome. So like for actors or something I mean imagine the amount of opportunities that we get right now that are like dude could you like dude if you built this thing and and my dude like do people are like dude you should sell a course. And you know what if I did I probably would make more than my horse creators. So like I did that but would that detract from the one thing that mattered most right. And I think most times the focus is that people can say no to the fast money and by doing that they say no to the big money which is the long money which is the money you got to wait. Right because like no big things are built fast like I'm very convinced about this like almost everybody goes to this like five to seven years of eating period where you just don't it doesn't feel like you're making progress and as as tacky as this may sound like your overarching strategy is hope like unshagable faith that it was going that it's going to happen but being paranoid about the present that it's going to die. Right so it's and I think Jim Collins he has some sort of justice position that he said more elegantly than me but it's maintaining both those things. And so for me my my ultimate vision is that like acquisitions.com compounds into a billion or or higher company and we do it doing it our way right and like that's that's what I want to do and whether it takes five years 10 years 20 years like it's a game that I'm dedicated to playing and anything like I know the plan that we set out for because we spent 18 months thinking of all the different things we can do what do we want to do we said we want to combine social media and investing that was the big that was like something old and something new and we figured if we create proprietary do a flow and do significant value add to businesses that they like we could we could we could buy a good rates and we could add value to them too because typically investing is one of the other either you buy really cheap like you buy like that's warm buff its strategies buy really cheap right now he says wonderful companies at fair prices whatever or you you've got somebody who's like a really niche like if you bought solar stuff but you can't because you're have you're not compete but yeah like if you if you didn't have your not gonna be like you going into a solar business it's like when you have expertise there you'll immediately be able to right and so you don't even need to buy at a great multiple because you know if you 10x it doesn't really matter what you bought it at because you're gonna it's gonna be worth playing with right and so for us we try to combine both those things to create an investment thesis and the problem with and and I know like you're you're in the season now right is that switching from business to investing is a massive change in mindset because when you're in business you're used to selling on it right it's selling and promoting and selling and selling and selling and selling but when you're doing deals it's actually about trying to get to know which is so counter everything that we like you and I have had ingrained in our minds it's like god I want this person to say yes but the thing is is that like if you keep upping the price and changing the terms then you can get someone to say yes but I might be a terrible deal for you and so like no longer is about yes is it's about you know coming to agreements within a defined box that you define for yourself that like this is a deal that makes sense right and so that's been probably one of the hardest transitions for me going from business owner to investor but an investment vehicle also doesn't give you the quick hits that business stuff like you and I could rattle the sales team and then boom we'd see sales hours later you know coming in same day I can't rattle the deal team and then like get a deal close right like it just doesn't work that right and so there's this huge lag on when we start doing stuff and we start seeing the results and so you think about like even improving a process it's like it might it might take 90 days or six months to get through from beginning to end on a deal and then we don't even know how the deal went and it's going to take us another year or two before we really even see like okay this was a good deal this was a good company this was a good pick so your feedback loops are so long you have to figure out games to play in the meantime so that you can let the big machine work and so like right now we have a snowball but I mean I'm an investor years we're like I did my first deal in 20 in summer 2020 some three years so like like in investor years three years is like nothing it's nothing it's child's play and so I had to really change my perspective of like business versus investing and that's been that's been a very hard thing to do but it's changed me a lot and I think hopefully for that I I love the I love the distinction between you know running a business or being in sales or or whatnot versus versus investing because you're exactly right it's drastically different I love I love the phrase in regards to what you're talking about aggressively patient right like just being aggressive in the moment but very patient on any results any lag any anything that's going and and I think that that drastically applies to both sides of of owning a business and also in in the in the investment world right like I'm doing I'm doing everything to increase deal flow and increase opportunities on one side and the in the other I'm creating as many transactions but not caring about the results and just getting and it may be boring and maybe maybe long and maybe you know suffering on day to day and and the interesting thing is like you don't have to be an entrepreneur to apply these principles right like you you could be in sales you can be in a in a career path you can be in any one of these things where where you just got to fall in love with the boring work not get easily distracted not looking for another opportunity where you know wherever they pop up and and because it's it's the compound effect as as you talked about earlier as far as like increasing your audience size same thing as far as skill set right like every every month every year that I'm you know hammering down on this one skill set and it's just compounding and then all of a sudden the results come fast and and and quick at the end yeah the amount of growth that your company had in the last year is probably more than it did in the first five years right and and it's a it's a top year shift probably like oh this is me just to share and I you're in the process of this too like when you go from comparing your your seven to your eight growth of a business that you owned to your to your three growth of a newer thing that you're doing it's like we can't compare the two like this is this is I'm just telling this is what's been hard for me that I've had like wrap my head around is that like I'm like god like it's so it'd be so easy for me to add another like 10 million in EBITDA you know it's it's it's in solar vices right versus like or or in gym watch like add another like six or add another 10 whatever it is right like adding that kind of like EBITDA like that can happen pretty quickly right whereas you know when you're in the new thing like you have to think in percentages rather than in in absolute amounts because otherwise you'll just get way too bogged down like you'll get way too sad about having so our poor cake as fast as you want them to and so that's that's been helped to is the shifting from absolute to percentages to relative changes and and also just at least for me thinking that like different businesses have different pain at different times and so like I'll give you a quick extreme example it's like on one extreme you got like info businesses right there's lots of people who have those the pain that you experience is when you want to get past a million a month two million a month three million a month so you basically pick a vehicle that's easy to start easy to make money fast work but you're not going to make massive money right it's very hard to do it not to see can't it's very very hard on the flip side you start a software company and like if you do it the right way you're probably not going to make any money at all for a long period of time and so all your pain is front loaded but once you achieve critical mass then the things just starts compounding on its own month over month over month and it knowing criminal cost you and the thing becomes a profit monster right and so it's like those are completely opposite sides of the spectrum and it's really just like where do you want your pain and if you know if you know ahead of time this is where the pain's going to happen not being surprised when the pain comes right you know I that is one of my favorite principles that I believe applies to every area of life your your fitness your relationships everything is choosing pain now versus versus later right if I choose if I choose pain now I experience real long lasting fruit later if I choose pain later I get fake fruit short bursts quick you know quick hitters right like I hit the I hit the alarm clock in the morning right hit the snooze button I get a quick hitter in the morning right like I get I feel I feel good sleeping a little bit longer or whatever it is but I miss my I miss my fitness routine or whatever it is you know which below long pain is way way more enduring way way worse and so this this principle applies to literally everything I want to I want to get your your take on on one thing so I asked ask Grant Cardone it's it's really really similar to to this kind of perspective that that you're talking about is like so the the question I ask Grant and this and I'll give you what he he answered and I don't want to hear your your thoughts on it was a young young guy he's wanted to launch his wanting to launch his first business he's thinking about taking taking the leap away from corporate America going to do it what do you would what do you advise like what advice do you have for that guy Grant said he said don't do it he said don't don't go and launch a business he said go and find somebody that has put in the years of essentially compounding and is pumping the brakes going figure out how to partner up with them and leverage that compound that's already been created right and and and participate in the upside and and I think it's a lot of like what you're what you're talking about as far as like year seven through eight is way easier to wait make way more money than zero to one one to two whatever it may be and so with that like what what are your thoughts what are your thoughts on that question on that advice so this is a really great question and I think that I will have slightly a slightly different take in brand and it's not because I disagree with this advice but because I think it depends on the context that it's given and so I think that as a me to start over will for you to quote start over I have a lot of experience in business and so for me it makes sense to go partner with those companies and you know let them have incurred that first pass so that I can walk walk with them to the much bigger upside right it's just that if you have no business experience one it's tough to get that business owner to say yeah you're going to be a huge value add to my business and number two you also probably like and if that person doesn't say that and you want to go to the finance route of like I can route my friends and family get a bank loan and then try and buy this business because I took a course on acquisitions or whatever you still don't know what you're doing and you don't know how to analyze what is a good business because you don't have a baseline and so a lot of these things are and again I agree with the advice from like what is the best opportunity to go I mean like private equity is a little based on this like you get into private equity you start upon and you can go like a billion dollars and five years but like sure all you got to do is raise a billion dollars go buy five companies for 200 you know what I mean let them double naturally over time and there you go you made yourself a billion dollars like sounds easy to do significant yeah right what do we do it here right why why do we start so well right but it's a lot easier said than done right and so like rent at his station in life um exotic conversation grain I'll give you a micro example of this and so I was thinking about what I was going to do with our big hunk of money right and I want to give you two very different perspectives on the advice all right so I talked to Dave Ramsey and I talked to sorry I didn't talk to you Dave I watched the video of Dave Ramsey when we talked about this night and I had a conversation with great levels so Grant said go buy a massive building you said go buy the biggest building you can possibly buy and that's what that's that's what you should do and I think the caveat there is that's what ranching because Grant's been doing real estate for 30 years and so for him him putting all his eggs on the basket is like yeah I can't lose he's like hey you just pick it and get a manager and they're done right Dave had slightly different perspective um Dave said if your experiences and your skills were a pie right so think about a pie 100% he said how would your experiences break down between like investment assets so you got like stocks and bonds you've got like you know the skills you have you've got business you've got crypto whatever it is right like where how does that pie circle out for you right and when I look at my pie it's a hundred percent business it's all business right and so when I heard that advice and I talked to a lot of people when I was in the like really the season that I think you're you just entered right now which is like the post transaction season right I talked to every single guy I know who's worth over 100 million every single guy I probably had I don't know only say minimum 40 conversations with guys who are worth 100 to multiple billions right and was like what should I do and what the tough part was is that all of them gave me different advice and so what they what many of them gave me is they gave me what they would right and that's and that's to be fair that's fine they're like this is what I would do this is what I did right but the thing is is like you're not them and so for me I'm good at business that's where all my experiences that's where I can recognize risk I can recognize value I can see where I can add value like I can see all that stuff if you put an apartment building that's worth 20 million in front of me and you put a business that's worth 20 million in front of me dude I like I got to the end of like four different real estate transactions that were in the neighborhood of like 15 to 30 million right and I would get right to the end you know I'd do all the other I had the excel sheets the projections all this stuff right and right before I needed to write the check we're like 3 million or 5 million I was like I don't know I don't know I've never done this I don't know right and I didn't want to buy a tiny house right right why am I gonna buy a thousand houses a week sorry right whereas me pulling up to a business that's worth 20 me writing a check there for 5 million I can do it in instant I don't even need the complex for like I know I know I get the business like I know it's I know where the risks are like I get I know the termites toilet tenants whatever it is for that business and so I absolutely agree that the the best opportunity is leveraging what already exists and then go going more right that's the entire private dignity industry the hard part is right how do you have how do you develop the skill set to get to that point and so I think that's the that's the new ones that I would add to which is like once you have five years or 10 years and this is why in my opinion most businesses at law on a long enough time horizon become investment firms like they become on some level of it they have to re-alocate capital now the first and obvious place that you re-alocate capital is within the business you look at how can we bolster out new product offerings or new business lines or whatever it is right and then the second kind of layer of investing is that you look at strategic acquisitions you see if you can buy other companies that are that are creative or value add to your own business right if you can vertically integrate I mean your business is like an obvious perfect example it's like okay well if I can buy the financing company yeah and I can buy the manufacturer of the solar pieces and not just have the sales team I'm gonna have a way more valuable business like that's a it's an accretive acquisition right the third level is just saying is there another place that I can allocate capital that will get me a higher return than my current thing right and so all businesses once they are successful enough become investment firms they have to make decisions based on returns on capital and so I figured if that's where I if that's where all businesses eventually lead then that's what I'm going to focus on at scale and so that's my two senses like you got to learn the bit you got to learn a game and then once you learn the game then you can recognize where the arbitrage opportunities are say that you can unlock all the upside and I'm sure that the many people who gave specific advice would probably agree with me on that if given an extra two minutes they asked the question dude I love it so you know the the interesting thing is like exactly to your point right in order to get to a point where you can go and leverage a big business you have to have the experience you have to have the skill set and there's really two different routes that you can go to get there right you can go the employment route you can go as an employee and I think if you're going to be as an employee you're going to want to be an entrepreneur and and and and typically that's that's in in a sales aspect right like go and learn the product learn how to sell learn how to elevate it try to participate in in some long term incentive plan or whatever it is but you're building a skill right getting up to a point where then later you can leverage and where somebody could look at you and say hey this guy can add value I'd be willing to share in some upside to help me scale up or you can go the entrepreneur route go and fail figure out things whatever it may be and so it's it's really I love I love your advice that like yes grant that's perfect advice after you have positioned yourself to be able to do so and and so that's that's absolutely yeah just just phenomenal stuff well uh last last piece last piece of advice that I want and then we'll let you go um so somebody is is just going through a tough time whether it's in a relationship business like really really struggling wondering you know can I keep going like is this even worth it what advice you give into that person whatever I have the thoughts like why do I even bother like why should I keep going I just remind myself that this is the point where most people put and that's why they don't love that love that so just keep going man I I dude Alex dude thanks for your time I love everything you stand for as far as just like being a player in the game falling in love with with the the boring work heck I even I even love uh your desserts I can't uh I can't participate the same way that you do with desserts I eat a piece of bread I gain five pounds uh wish uh wish I had the the natural uh ability to even participate but uh dude appreciate you love you thank you so much for your time until next time